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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning 76.107.171.90 and Barney the barney barney
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Askahrc (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 06:53, 7 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- User against whom enforcement is requested
(Please forgive the slightly unusual format; these two editors both have a history of the same style of NPA toward me, often support one another, have been warned in the same AE previously and recently began attacking me at the same time, so it made sense to include them both)
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Pseudoscience#Discretionary sanctions
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- 76.107.171.90
- May 5, 2014 76.107.171.90 posted “Cap’n McDouche” on Guy's Talk page, containing the vulgarity in the title, an attempt to insult me with a homophobic profanity and many aspersions against myself and other editors (Littleolive oil & Liz), all while suggesting to other editors plans to get me blocked. He also suggests accusing me of violating a community block that does not exist, a tactic which has wasted the time of admins in the past (see further comments). WP:CIVIL, WP:NPA, WP:ASPERSIONS.
- Barney the barney barney
- May 4, 2014 Barney states that I am incompetent, likely due to a severe mental impairment that he links to.
- May 4, 2014 Barney clarifies his remarks to state that regardless of what illness I do/don't possess, I am too grossly incompetent in every way to be aware of my own ignorance.
- May 4, 2014 When Littleolive oil informed Barney that it was unacceptable to imply other editors have mental illnesses, Barney called her ignorant.
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
- April 3, 2014 AE Results discussion in which both Barney and 76 are judged to be violating NPA. The admin wished to block Barney completely, but settled for another warning.
- April 3, 2014 76's 2 day blocking for WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA while proclaiming that I was involved in a conspiracy to damage WP.
- February 23, 2014 I noticed that an archived ANI had been tampered with by Barney, so I reverted the edit and reminded Barney that editing ANI Archives was frowned upon. Barney then told me that I was too incompetent to understand WP and insisted on reediting the archive. He was then sanctioned for edit-warring the archive.
- If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
- Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked. (76, Barney)
- Barney placed on Pseudoscience Sanction Log for incivility and aspersion. (Barney, Barney)
- Both Barney and 76 participated in an arbitration request or enforcement procedure about the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on April 3, 2014.
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
76.107.171.90 (talk) and Barney the barney barney have been sanctioned and repeatedly warned respectively for violating WP:CIVIL & WP:NPA toward me in the past. I have not pursued any interaction with either of them since then, but recently they have both begun making personal attacks and casting aspersions about my integrity, sexuality and mental health.
- 76.107.171.90 posted “Cap’n McDouche” on Guy's Talk page, accusing me of writing on an off-wiki page (the content was lifted from months-old postings on my Talk page and I had no involvement or input in their posting on the website, which the website openly states). 76 then attempted to insult me with unacceptably homophobic profanity:
- "He has now posted another polemic on Tumbleman’s website in which he indicates that he is “investigating dicks” on Wikipedia. And while I have no doubt that Askahrc has an extreme interest in dicks, I think it’s high time that this situation be rectified."
- This reflects the vulgarity 76 used with me previously and when he called someone a "diehard retard." 76 then bragged they've intentionally been trying to provoke me
- "When I first goaded Askahrc into providing evidence against himself at his own sock puppet investigation more than two months ago I figured that Askahrc would be a self-rectifying problem once I got the ball rolling.")
- and refers to me as a "hardcore bully" (I've never interacted with 76 except to get him to stop harassing me). 76 denounces Littleolive oil as "harassing" and Liz as "the consort of every major fringe pusher".
- Finally, 76 proposes various ideas on how to get me blocked,
- "I can think of several strategies, but I think the most obvious is to get him for being a meat puppet. Alternately, I could dust off the old community block (it’s still “on the books”)."
- I presume the block's status is in quotes because both Barney and 76 have been falsely stating I have a community block even after admins have told them that I have none. This continuing falsehood has led to wasted time on an AN by an admin fooled into thinking there was an actual block on me.
- Barney posted on an AN board that I was too incompetent to contribute to sourcing a page, explaining that
- "This may be due to the Dunning–Kruger effect."
- The Dunning-Kruger effect states that grossly incompetent people are too ignorant to recognize their own mental disability, and compares its effect to severe brain injury. Barney further explains
- "I do not really care what illnesses askahrc (talk · contribs) has. What I do accuse askahrc (talk · contribs) of is rank incompetence, contrary to WP:COMPETENCE, and lacking even the basic competence to understand that he's not competent." 1
- then insists he has proof of my ignorance & incompetence without sharing it.
- After referring to Dunning-Kruger as an illness himself, Barney then calls Littleolive oil ignorant for decrying his calling another editor mentally ill. This violates WP:CIVIL (and logic...).
76 and Barney each have a history of personal attacks, vulgarity and casting aspersions. They've been directly warned/sanctioned about this numerous times and yet continue to attack myself and others. The Cap'n (talk) 06:53, 7 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Please note that I acknowledge Sandstein's request that any future AE's (let's hope not) be divided into separate filings for each involved editor for convenience. The Cap'n (talk) 08:41, 7 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- @76, this falls under ARBPSEUDO discretionary sanctions because A) Every single person you reference in your rant has been connected to WP:ARBPSEUDO in one way or another B) it's where you were warned to avoid this exact behavior (ie. accusing me of conspiring with someone associated with Pseudoscience), C) you specifically refer to wanting to stop "fringe pushers" in your rant.
- Also, please note (as I mentioned on Guy's Talk and again here) that I did not write anything on that website. I only wrote what was on my talk page, which was entitled "Case Files," included no profanity, personal attacks or even the names of people I supposedly disagree with. The owner of the website edited and renamed it himself without my input. Please stop asserting that I added that material to the website or named it. The Cap'n (talk) 08:41, 7 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- @Sandstein Thank you.
- @Barney, aside from the PA nature of constantly referring to my supposedly debilitating incompetency (with no diffs of any such incompetent acts), the condition of Dunning-Kruger that you link to describes the condition "Dunning has since drawn an analogy ("the anosognosia of everyday life")[1][6] with a condition in which a person who suffers a physical disability because of brain injury..." I don't care whether it's technically a mental illness or a mental condition, it's inappropriate to claim an editor is mentally impaired for disagreeing with you, especially without evidence.
- Your references to Vzaak's repeated accusations make no sense and have no bearing on your conduct here. Despite my arguments to the contrary, Vzaak got admins to determine it was "Fairly Likely" that I was linked to inappropriate IP activity; I was warned and respect the system enough to accept the admins' decision. Are you referring to that settled matter from last year, or to the failed attempts since then by Vzaak to get me blocked, which included an AE set aside due to a complete lack of evidence (sound familiar?) and another SPI accusation (this one rightfully dismissed) that claimed I was issuing death threats and committing crimes under an IP? Neither a settled case nor a slew of dismissed accusations makes your position any stronger, or your personal attacks any less offensive. The Cap'n (talk) 12:26, 7 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Liz & Sandstein, I am of the same opinion as Liz that these back and forths are wasting the community's time and not improving behavior. I have no desire to find excuses to get editors blocked, whether they dislike me or not, but I've tried ignoring these personal attacks and they only escalate and turn into canvassing efforts to get me banned. If I don't respond then my name, reputation and record get misrepresented, I get AN's pushed against me on the basis of easily falsifiable claims and risk getting banned from WP from PA's run amok. I am all for Liz & Sandstein's suggestion of interaction bans for those involved (76, Barney, plus possibly JzG and Vzaak). I honestly have no interest in harassing these editors, and if I knew they weren't actively trying to get me banned I'd never again have to spend an admin's time on these things. As I recommended in my AR, I think IBANs would dramatically decrease hostility, frivolous accusations and timewasting. The Cap'n (talk) 18:49, 7 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Hipocrite, the "screed" that is clearly in my name from several months back was a statement I provided to the owner of that site, of which I promptly posted notice on my Talk page for transparency (that's how most people know about it). In it I neither named or attacked any editors, but said that WP should not be about finding excuses to ban editors we disagree with. I reiterated throughout that I believed WP was better than POV hostility and would rise above this kind of squabbling. Not exactly the 95 Theses. Every one of the few other interactions I've had with that person was logged on my Talk page to demonstrate that I was not collaborating or endorsing him. After going through all that trouble to be overly transparent every step of the way, why would I then post materials on his site, not mention it, then deny involvement after the fact despite the fact it's obviously my content? Use a little logic, here. The Cap'n (talk) 19:02, 7 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- @Hipocrite, do not misrepresent what I've said, please. I've never initiated a conflict or sought to ban editors for disagreeing with me, I've only asked admins to step in when editors ignore my attempts to be civil and make personal attacks, lie about me having TBANs, use profanity ("douche, dick-hole, shit-on-a-stick, troll, diehard retard," to name a few) and make homophobic slurs. Are you really defending those practices?
- Also, how do you turn "I've made ONE statement to this person months ago and I was open about when and why" into "you're not denying you regularly supply content"? Either you're not listening or you're intentionally misrepresenting what I said, but either way I urge you to be more conscientious. In the same vein, I've said I had no connection to the Chopra death threat (that was before I ever edited there), Checkusers have said I had no connection to the death threat and admins have said I have no connection to the death threat. You've been informed of this on Talk pages and in this AE, so continuing Vzaak's implication that I was involved in the death threat incident is venturing into WP:ASPERSIONS. Considering how many names I've been called in the past couple days in response to asking editors to be civil, I think it's a little odd that people are claiming I'm being unreasonable. The Cap'n (talk) 20:54, 7 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- @ErikHaugen, I can take your point that questioning my competency could be relevant on an AN board, but Barney has been calling me incompetent on article talk pages, my own talk page(where I just was trying to explain that he had been editing an archive), and basically anywhere that my name comes up. He has a habit of referring to anyone who he disagrees with (ie. Liz, Littleolive oil, etc) as completely incompetent and ignorant, whether he's involved in a AE/AN or not. The Cap'n (talk) 22:21, 8 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Discussion concerning 76.107.171.90
| 76.107.171.90 blocked as a normal admin action by Sandstein (hatting this section for clarity). Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 12:47, 7 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
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| The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
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Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by 76.107.171.90
This isn’t covered under pseudoscience discretionary sanctions. The incident in question took place on Guy’s talk page and focuses on Askahrc’s recent claim that he is “investigating dicks” on Wikipedia. Pseudoscience was not discussed and the conversation focused on Askahrc’s ongoing behavioral issues and the mounting evidence that he is the meat puppet of an indefinitely blocked user. 76.107.171.90 (talk) 07:45, 7 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Statement by (username)
Result concerning 76.107.171.90
This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
The complaint is justified on the merits. The edit at issue by 76.107.171.90 is an unacceptable personal attack (WP:NPA), especially insofar as it contains a sexual slur ("I have no doubt that Askahrc has an extreme interest in dicks"). I have previously blocked 76.107.171.90 for personal attacks in April for 48 hours. Clearly this was insufficiently preventative. A longer block is necessary to deter future misconduct of this sort, particularly because the statement by 76.107.171.90 does not address their misconduct, but instead makes unsubstantiated allegations of misconduct against the complainant, in violation of the principle described in WP:ASPERSIONS. For these reasons, I am blocking 76.107.171.90 for two weeks.
I am doing so under normal administrator authority, because it appears to me that the edit at issue is not within the scope of discretionary sanctions. The "Pseudoscience" decision authorizes these for "all articles relating to pseudoscience and fringe science", which excludes talk pages. But the newer WP:AC/DS procedure authorizes sanctions "for the following topic areas" including "Pages relating to Pseudoscience and Fringe science", and says: "When considering whether edits fall within the scope of discretionary sanctions, administrators should be guided by the principles outlined in the topic ban policy", which, at WP:TBAN, is scoped broadly enough to include talk page discussions. Therefore, in my view, sanctions are in principle authorized for talk page discussions related to pseudoscience or fringe science. But the edit at issue does not mention or touch upon such matters, but is framed only as a series of personal attacks with no apparent relation to the underlying topic area or content disputes, if any. Therefore, in this respect, I am of the view that this is not actionable as an AE request. Sandstein 09:14, 7 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
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Discussion concerning Barney the barney barney
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Barney the barney barney
This is entirely frivolous complaint by Askahrc (talk · contribs) who has a history of filing such frivolous cases to the authorities.
I stand by every comment I have made about Askahrc (talk · contribs) - but not those he has now repeatedly lied about, even after being corrected.
To clarify for a second time: I do not believe that Askahrc (talk · contribs) is basically WP:COMPETENT to edit articles related to WP:FRINGE material, and in this assessment most users probably agree with me. Askahrc apparently believes he is competent, despite generally being in a minority of one. I suggest that this self-assessment is due to the Dunning–Kruger effect. This is not a mental illness. What is says is that those who are not competent to do something also tend to overestimate their competence to do that thing.
I'd also like to clarify my opinion that Askahrc (talk · contribs) is only not capable of editing WP:FRINGE-related articles. It is important to note that these articles require more competence to edit than non-controversial articles. My statement about his lack of competence is specifically with this area in which a great deal of competence is indeed required.
I'm not quite sure how Wikipedia can proceed if an assessment of a user's competence is now to be construed as a personal attack.
Ironically, given this attempt at enforcement, my opinion was intended to prevent askahrc (talk · contribs) from trying to implement what he'd regard as "mediation" between those who are sceptical of WP:FRINGE theories (in line with the WP:MAINSTREAM point of view) and those who are very much in favour of them. From my experience with Rupert Sheldrake, he'd be extremely arrogant and patronising, selectively ignore Wikipedia policy, try to impose his own views, and generally create entirely unnecessary WP:DRAMA.
In my opinion, Askahrc (talk · contribs) is basically a troll, who like others is anti-WP:FRINGE and anti-Wikipedia. WP:NOTHERE is appropriate. Vzaak (talk · contribs) has shown his attempts to use sockpuppets to troll.
I suggest that no clearer case of WP:BOOMERANG exists. Barney the barney barney (talk) 11:12, 7 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Statement by JzG
Prior discussions involving the filing party:
That's not bad for a user with fewer than 300 mainspace edits in over five years as a registered user.
The filing party also neglected to mention the fact that he was found using sockpuppets to attack Barney the barney barney, one of the two accounts against whom he requests sanctions. (Note: Taken on trust from prior discussions, I'm digging for diffs; false claims have also been made against Askahrc in the past).
I find this user's behaviour vexing. As Barney suggests, he is engaging himself in complex and difficult disputes around an area where he shows a clear lack of understanding (or perhaps outright rejection) of Wikipedia policy. Having been involved at the Rupert Sheldrake (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) article, Askahrc then presents himself as a neutral mediator at Deepak Chopra (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views). Chopra is a prominent supporter of Sheldrake, and vice-versa. Tim Farley analysed his editing pattern and found him to be one of a small group of people engaged in this area, whose involvement is heavily skewed towards meta-debate not content editing: [1]. The other partisans included Alfonzo Green (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), Barleybannocks (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) and Tumbleman (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). This seems to me to be a group of editors who have decided to Right Great Wrongs by redressing the "balance" against fringe and pseudoscientific claims, primarily related to Sheldrake, IMO.
What we do not need is editors with virtually no article editing experience, asserting themselves to be mediators in contentious biographies. The Chopra article at the moment is subject to long walls of text from a user representing the Chopra media office, now is not a good time for the well intentioned but seriously inexperienced (the most charitable interpretation, the Dunning-Kruger effect), and it's a terrible time for a troll, which is what I am afraid I think Askahrc is.
Lack of competence, lack of experience, deliberate mischief, failure to accept Wikipedia policy - whatever the problem, I think this is a user who needs ot keep away form biographies related to fringe topics, and possibly from all fringe and pseudoscience. Guy (Help!) 12:03, 7 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Sandstein: feel free to point out what is insulting about this, I am merely pointing out the facts as I see them. This is a user who presents himself as a potential mediator, with fewer than 300 mainspace edits and a history of dispute on contentious articles. He does not understand Wikipedia well enough to understand why this is a problem, does not understand why involvement on the Sheldrake article is equivalent to involvement in the Chopra article (i.e. WP:COMPETENCE) and the sockpuppetry speaks for itself. I find his behaviour, as I say, vexing. In what way is that not a civil way of stating the issue? As I say, I am open to the possibility that this is well-intentioned, but it must be said that there is an appearance of trolling, in the classic sense of the term. This user has stated an agenda against WP:FRINGE and in favour of a more sympathetic treatment of an advocate of fringe science (and in the process a rather banned user) [2], now removed from the original. If that's OK by everyone then I will forget about it, no problem. What I see is someone who was marginally active for a long time then became very active in talk space just when Sheldrake started pressing for more sympathetic (and less NPOV) coverage. It sets the spidey-senses tingling. And yes, it's easy to misjudge in these cases, but it's also easy to AGF to excess. Is there a difference between a lengthy description of behaviour that may justly be represented as, at the very least, a red flag, accompanied by a very brief and clearly identified expression of personal opinion, and a blatant attack? I think there might be. Remember: we are talking about articles here that have, for a long time, seen a steady stream of newly interested and/or new users all advancing the same POV. Those of us who bother to watch them would appreciate more eyes, it would materially improve the burnout rate. Guy (Help!) 16:47, 7 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Statement by Nomoskedasticity
Sandstein is grossly mistaken in believing that it is a "personal attack" (and therefore prohibited) to observe that another editor is incompetent or even grossly incompetent. Some editors are indeed incompetent and cause no end of trouble at Wikipedia. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 12:43, 7 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Statement by Roxy the dog
Although the sanctions imposed by Sandstein on 76.107.171.90 may well be covered by a liberal interpretation of the policies and guidelines of wikipedia, they are way outside the spirit of them, and should be reconsidered. It is the worst, most unjustified, admin action I have seen, in my admittedly limited experience here. -Roxy the dog (resonate) 15:13, 7 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Statement by Liz
I have also been attacked by Barney, right in an arbitration request and elsewhere, but I'm not filing a complaint or adding it to this one. It is Barney's habit to treat those he doesn't respect with caustic disdain. I'm not sure if a block will change this kind of attitude.
What is more troubling is to see all of the claims and counterclaims between @76, Vzaak, The Cap'n, Barney and sometimes Guy on AN/I, AN and A/R/E. It's ridiculous for editors to look for reasons to get other editors blocked and then the second editor to file a similar complaint against the first editor another week later for harassment. I know it must be tiresome for admins to see these same parties mentioned in a complaint, in a tit-for-tat series. This needs to stop and it shouldn't be stopped by trying to get other users indefinitely blocked from Wikipedia.
It would be preferable for all editors working on topics that fall under the pseudoscience area to not "track" each other's edits and give each other a wide berth. If that is not possible because of similar interests, it is important to remember civility even when an editor questions another's competence. To repeat the fourth pillar of Wikipedia:
"Fourth pillar: Editors should treat each other with respect and civility: Respect your fellow Wikipedians, even when you disagree. Apply Wikipedia etiquette, and don't engage in personal attacks. Seek consensus, avoid edit wars, and never disrupt Wikipedia to illustrate a point. Act in good faith, and assume good faith on the part of others. Be open and welcoming to newcomers. If a conflict arises, discuss it calmly on the nearest talk pages, follow dispute resolution, and remember that there are 4,508,769 articles on the English Wikipedia to work on and discuss."
I know that every editor is aware of these words but they speak directly to the issue of respecting other editors, whether or not you agree with their position. The fourth pillar doesn't allow for exceptions for pseudoscience or Eastern Europe or Israel/Palestine, in fact, one can make a good argument that in these contentious topics, civility is even more important than in areas where there is less conflict. Liz Read! Talk! 13:29, 7 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- @Roxy, how, specifically, does a block for harassment go against "the spirit" of the policy and guidelines of Wikipedia? What makes @76's and @Barney's behavior justified? Are there specific exceptions to civility policy based on the type of articles one chooses to edit? Liz Read! Talk! 15:30, 7 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- @Hipocrite, as far as I understand it, Tumbleman lifted the content he used for that blog post (which doesn't mention any editor by name) from TheCap'n's user pages. There is also a page composed of quotes of mine, taken from discussions on talk pages, AN/I and ARBCOM, which I was neither informed of nor was my permission asked. But no one is accusing me of "collaborating" with a blocked user.
- As for the SPI in November, an IP was posting discretionary sanction notices on user talk pages, an activity several of the editors commenting here have also done. The investigation concluded there was a likely a connection between the two accounts, TheCap'n was
given a block admonished and the incident has not reoccurred. Six months later, I assume if there was newer evidence of sockpuppeting, there is a variety of editors who would not hesitate to share it. But suggesting that editors should be "waiting for him to make a mistake large enough (like sockpuppeting again) that you can civilly report", is not a helpful attitude to foster collaboration. And that should be the goal here. Liz Read! Talk! 17:21, 7 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- @Hipocrite, all I know is that TheCap'n has shared his thoughts about the Sheldrake talk page conflict, at length, on his user pages. Truthfully, I don't know where that blog post originally came from and I think it has actually been removed from the website. I can't say anything about its creation with any certainty but as far as I'm concerned, the material discussed the unfriendly climate on Wikipedia, it didn't mention any editors by name, it's gone now and, most importantly, it's off-wiki behavior so there is no verification of its origins or authorship. If it is accepted as evidence at ARBCOM, so must every comment on Wikipediocracy or other sites like that. For the record, I would feel completely differently if there had been outing involved but the post contained nothing like that. Liz Read! Talk! 19:11, 7 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- @ErikHaugen, I think you have to consider this is not an isolated incident but part of a continuing of hostilities between editors. If it is not addressed with at least some warnings, I can guarantee that it will continue and we'll all eventually be back here at AE within a month or two. In this light, warnings and short duration blocks would hopefully be preventative. Between the cases brought to AN, AN/I and AE, I would think admins would be tired of adjudicating disputes between the same group of editors. Liz Read! Talk! 18:30, 8 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- @Vzaak, the SPI activity, in which there was seen a "likely" (but not confirmed) relationship between these two accounts occurred in November 2013 and was composed of posting 11 discretionary sanction notices on user talk pages. Not great, yes, but considering that many of the participants commenting here post DS notices on user talk pages, if this constitutes harassment, then there are a number of other parties guilty of this.
- But, more importantly, this incident occurred six months ago, for a brief period of time and you speak as if TheCap'n is currently socking, that he caused great damage and that socking is currently a big problem. I question all of those conclusions. What I see is that there are continued attacks on TheCap'n no matter what he does, what articles that he chooses to edit and that there is a group of editors watching for any "slip-ups" he might make that can be used to bring him to AE or AN/I and get him blocked. No matter how this request is decided, I have no doubts that there will be a retaliatory case brought to an admin forum within the next few weeks even if TheCap'n makes NO questionable edits but based on these old charges (as has been done already several times). This cycle of charges and countercharges needs to stop and I'd rather it wasn't stopped with all parties receiving blocks. Liz Read! Talk! 02:28, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Barney, don't you get it? Wikipedia doesn't care if you are collaborating off wiki with a banned user to insult and harass editors here [3]. It doesn't care if you are creating strawman sockpuppeets to try to further your side in a dispute by making your opposition look weird [4]. It cares ONLY, and I repeat this ONLY that you do not, under any circumstances, make anyone feel even a little bad - unless, of course, you are a complete fringe lunatic - then you can make people who have spent countless hours trying to make an encyclopedia useful and accurate waste countless hours because we wouldn't dare get rid of someone who was new! Now, apologize for saying that Askahrc was generally incompetent, and proceed on with ignoring everything he says while waiting for him to make a mistake large enough (like sockpuppeting again) that you can civilly report his completely disruptive actions. Thanks! Hipocrite (talk) 16:33, 7 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Hey, Liz, do you think he lifted the text on "Next steps: The Capn," linked via cache above from Wikipedia - because we both know he certainly did not - that was written specifically for the site by The Capn himself. "Fostering collaboration" takes everyone, not just people you disagree with doing something. How does writing screeds for tumbleman's blog foster collaboration, exactly? Hipocrite (talk) 17:51, 7 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Askahrc: "WP should not be about finding excuses to ban editors we disagree with." Askahrc: "Please ban these editors I disagree with." At least you're not denying you regularly supply content to Tumbleman offwiki. Are you the one who told Chopra about the vandalistic death threats? Hipocrite (talk) 19:17, 7 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Statement by Cardamon
The term Dunning–Kruger effect does not refer to either a "mental impairment" or a "mental illness". Our article on this is good enough that this should be apparent to people who read the article. Cardamon (talk) 22:57, 7 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Statement by vzaak
- Askahrc suggests the first SPI was somehow equivocal or not entirely solid.
- Reality: Two admins concluded that Askahrc was sockpuppeting, and Askahrc's misconduct was officially logged at WP:ARB/PS, "Askahrc is strongly admonished for using an IP address to harass other users and waste the community's time".[5] There is nothing equivocal about this conclusion.
- Askahrc says there are "failed attempts since then by Vzaak to get me blocked".
- Reality: I have never argued that Askahrc be blocked.
- Askahrc says the AE request on him was "set aside due to a complete lack of evidence".
- Reality: Two admins took the evidence to be actionable, including the same admin who handled the SPI, with another admin remarking on Askahrc's deceptive behavior. The AE request was tabled for lack of recent activity from Askahrc, not dismissed, and with a "low bar" for subsequent activity.
- Reality: The SPI was a request for checkuser, and a checkuser was performed. This is confirmation that the evidence presented in the SPI has merit, the opposite of dismissal. A checkuser is not pixie dust. Indeed there is substantial evidence connecting Askahrc to the Abraham article, including precise location, timing, motivation, matching circumstances with his first bout of sockpuppeting, and more.
- Since the tabled request, I daresay that Askahrc has not only cleared the "low bar" but has entered the stratosphere. Despite having been sanctioned for wasting the community's time, Askahrc brought another frivolous arbitration request which was curtly dismissed by the arbitrators.[6] The premise of the request is so bizarre that it seems like a prank: (a) if a person uses a sockpuppet to harass users, then the very act of catching this misconduct constitutes harassment of the person doing the harassing; (b) if someone uses a sockpuppet to inflame battleground sentiments, then the person who catches the sockpuppeteer is demonstrating battleground behavior.
- Since competency has been brought up here, I'll quote the penultimate point from my response to the arbitration request:
- I covered the competence issue in the ANI, the epitome of which is the MOS:LQ matter which has been pointed out to Askahrc four times.[7][8][9][10] The "fixing punctuation" Askahrc mentions was not a fix but a violation of LQ. As long as Askahrc continues to interpret a simple LQ correction as battleground or ownership behavior, there is little hope of getting across more complex guidelines and policies.
- Askahrc used his arbitration request to cast evidence-free aspersions at me, which I addressed in my response at the arbitration page. He has continued this behavior at the Deepak Chopra talk page.[11] See my response there.[12] These aspersions alone are over the "low bar". Askahrc's sockpuppetry -- just look at what he was doing -- is contemptible, as are his ongoing baseless aspersions against the person who caught him sockpuppeting.
vzaak 00:27, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- If anyone is close to believing the spin Liz has attempted to put on the sockpuppeting, I invite you to study the SPI yourself (also, the word "likely" appears nowhere in that SPI). Liz is more generally trying to frame the matter as an accusation/counter-accusation cycle. No, that is a false equivalence. Askahrc is making evidence-free aspersions, and my response is to show evidence contradicting these aspersions. When I have referenced misconduct, I show evidence. The second arbitration request brought by Askahrc, the second SPI, and most recently the aspersions at the Chopra page and at AN have all occurred since the tabled "low bar" AE request. We are talking about the sockpuppeting because Askahrc talks about the sockpuppeting in the arbitration request and the Chopra page. Askahrc continues to initiate these evidence-free aspersions. I do not wish to get involved, but when I see false claims being made, I correct them. vzaak 03:28, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Statement by (username)
Result concerning Barney the barney barney
This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
The request has merit. While the comments by Barney the barney barney at issue and on this page do not allege a mental illness on the part of Askahrc, they are noneless insulting, in that they call Askahrc "a troll", "anti-Wikipedia" and grossly incompetent. Such conduct is prohibited, see WP:NPA. Editors are expected to avoid personalizing disputes and to focus discussions on article content and sources, rather than on the persons of others. Barney the barney barney did the opposite here. I recall that Barney the barney barney has twice been warned against similar misconduct, in December 2013 by me and in April 2014 by Callanecc. The edits are within the scope of the Pseudoscience discretionary sanctions because they were made in a WP:ANI discussion about conduct regarding the article Deepak Chopra, which is concerned with issues related to pseudo- or fringe science. I am of the view that Barney the barney barney should be banned from interacting with Askahrc. Because the statement by JzG above is similar in (insulting) substance to that of Barney the barney barney, if somewhat more moderate in tone, I am also considering whether a similar sanction would be appropriate with regard to JzG. What do others think? As to the allegations by Barney the barney barney and JzG regarding misconduct by Askahrc, they are merely assertions without evidence, and are therefore, in my view, disruptive rather than useful. Sandstein 12:15, 7 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- I agree with Sandstein's block of 76.107.171.90 (although I think it would have been justifiable as an AE action). I do not see any basis for sanctioning Guy who, whilst undoubtedly blunt, is not aggressive in his expression. Where he gives a negative opinion of Askahrc, he provides a clear rationale for that opinion and is not simply nakedly insulting. Barney the barney barney is more complex; whilst the evidence presented against him has been somewhat exaggerated (he did not suggest anyone has a mental disability) he is still very much out of line in both the mode and content of his remarks. Whether it requires a sanction to prevent recurrence, I am still undecided. I will, however, give Barney some advice: many administrators are sympathetic to editors who believe they are editing to maintain the 18 principles set down by ArbCom in WP:ARBPS but you have to recognise that the more you muddy the waters with hyperbole, aggressive expression and ad hominem remarks, the more you tie administrators' hands. CIreland (talk) 21:06, 7 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- I'd suggest that the content of the claim – that Askahrc is not competent enough to mediate – was not necessarily inappropriate in the context in which it was made: an AN discussion about whether Askahrc was the right person to be mediating. Some of the other rhetoric was over the top, but I think it's important to remember that there are situations in which discussing the editor is not inappropriate in and of itself, and this was one of them. Similarly for JzG's statement; I don't see this as being terribly inappropriate in this context, although I'm not aware of anything (at this point) that would justify further sanctions for Askahrc. ErikHaugen (talk | contribs) 16:55, 8 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Taking into consideration the discussion above, Barney the barney barney is banned for two months from interacting with Askahrc. While ErikHaugen's point that Askahrc's competence may have been an appropriate topic for discussion in this context is well taken, Barney the barney barney must be reminded that even in the (very rare) situations where it is appropriate to discuss another editor's personal merits (or lack thereof), this must be done without insults or personal attacks. I expect exemplary behavior from Barney the barney barney in this regard in the future. Sandstein 07:56, 11 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
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