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March 8

Impossibility defense

In Nevada, a man has been charged with attempted murder after attacking a mannequin in a manner that, according to police, proves that he thought he was attacking a live person. Judging by their words in the article, the public defender will be mounting an impossibility defense, since obviously one cannot kill a mannequin, but the article says that the Nevada Supreme Court has previously rejected this defense.

Are there other US states in which an impossibility defense is impossible (how ironic...) or possible only in extremely limited situations? The article mentions a Pennsylvania case in which a woman who accidentally spiked her husband's coffee with sugar, rather than her intended arsenic, but was still convicted of attempted murder. However, this seems to be different because the woman's actions didn't harm her intended target (the action of putting sugar in coffee can't cause harm, unless the subject's blood sugar is dangerously high), while the Nevada guy's actions really did cause significant damage to his intended target (presumably he could get convicted of vandalism at the minimum) and his mistake was merely going after the wrong target. Nyttend (talk) 01:13, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Most crimes require both mens rea and actus reus, that is one must have the mindset of malfeasance (or at least neglect) and actually commit an positive action, or neglect to commit a require action. I'm not sure what that has to do with your proposed scenario, but those terms will likely be useful for you in your research. --Jayron32 02:42, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Well the article you linked to links to People v. Lee Kong although that case seems more similar to Pennsylvania. It also links to People v. Dlugash which seems similar but only deal with crimes that are attempts and our article says it a legal impossibility rather than a factual one. Finally it links to United States v. Thomas (1962) which is both listed as a factual impossibility example and also where there is probably a crime anyway, although it was marital law rather than state. Nil Einne (talk) 02:55, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

To my non-lawyer eyes, the "mannequin" case seems like there should be a much stronger argument for impossibility than in the "coffee" case, because in the "coffee" case there was a real person that the defendant was indeed attempting to murder, and failed only because she used the wrong powder; in the "mannequin" case, on the other hand, there was no real person who was the target of the assault. The property damage is a separate crime/tort, not relevant to the charge of attempted murder.

I suppose I might see it differently if they could show there was a particular person that he thought he was attacking (because then there would be an identifiable "victim"). But of course killing a random person on the street is just as illegal as killing one you know, so it's tricky. --Trovatore (talk) 03:12, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

• Our article on the subject, actually uses a rejected impossibility defense as its first example of an impossibility defense, referencing People v. Lee Kong. (Shooting at the location where you believe to target to be is still attempted murder, even if they moved, and the shots therefor posed no risk). Actually, every example listed under factual impossibility at Impossibility defense involves the defense being rejected... that article needs some help. Here is another case State v. Mitchell rejecting the defense, and duplicating verbatim parts of Impossibility defense, but also mentioning that 37 states reject a factual impossibility defense. It may help better frame the discussion both here, and in that article, to start with some cases where the impossibility defense DOES apply. Here is a case People v. Jaffe accepting the defense, though it really seems like a state split, rather than some clear logical line. Monty₈₄₅ 03:04, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

I'm curious what would happen in the case of someone who tried to kill someone else by means of, say, witchcraft. My guess is that such cases are simply not brought to trial, because no prosecutor wants to stand up in front of a jury and accuse someone of trying to work deadly magic. But do the attempt laws apply to them on their face, and if so, would impossibility be accepted as a defense? --Trovatore (talk) 03:45, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Witness: "Your Honor, I saw the man sitting at the defendant's table as he stretched out his hand, holding a stick and pointing it at his wife, and I heard him shout 'Avada Kedavra' as he did this!" Nyttend (talk) 04:42, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

A lot of people have talked about this possibility (see here), but there doesn't seem to be any US case law or statutory law on attempted murder via witchcraft, explicitly. Someguy1221 (talk) 04:54, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

It seems impossibility is not a defense in Oregon https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/161.425 and probably Califonria ftp://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/99-00/bill/asm/ab_2201-2250/ab_2243_cfa_20000327_102147_asm_comm.html I think you'd have to comb through the laws state by state to get a comprehensive list. 208.90.213.186 (talk) 18:29, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Okay, now I feel rather silly — the introduction to the impossibility defense article says that 37 states have prohibited the defense, and the third page of the cited source says "Thirty-seven states have explicitly eliminated impossibility as a defense to a charge of attempt", and that statement cites the relevant code sections for the thirty-seven states in question. The article even addresses voodoo. Nyttend (talk) 23:30, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Counties requiring condoms in porn movies

Is there a list of counties in California that require performers to wear condos (condoms(I misspelled)) when filming porn movies? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Uncle dan is home (talk • contribs) 01:44, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

I would think very few jurisdictions would require wearing buildings. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 05:33, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

This is what I found so far before I asked my question. Ventura County passed a condom requirement and so did Los Angeles County. Which other counties have this requirement? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Uncle dan is home (talk • contribs) 18:33, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Well?Uncle dan is home (talk) 23:28, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Perhaps my question is inappropriate because it deals with a dirty subject?Uncle dan is home (talk) 23:35, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

If it was inappropriate, we'd remove it. I'm having trouble searching because of the overwhelming presence of Measure B and California Proposition 60 (2016) in the news stories. There's some interesting stuff here that mentions companies moving out of state to escape the law in LA County. This mentions that it's technically been a health and safety requirement statewide for some time (no word on what happened to the goggle requirement mentioned). This suggests that it is just the two counties (as of 2013), with Ventura county specifically following in LA's footsteps (as it were). Matt Deres (talk) 03:19, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

"No response after 5 hours" doesn't mean it's inappropriate, it means no one who saw this post in those five hours knows the answer. Assume good faith, friendo. --Golbez (talk) 19:38, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

Public health and safety is not a "dirty" subject. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:56, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

When did the RMB devaluation end?

The Chinese government has been devaluing the RMB since the early 90s. And now recently I read that it's been manipulating it in the opposite direction, i.e. overvaluing it as of 2017[1].

1. When did the RMB devaluation end?

2. When did the RMB over-valuation begin?

I'm just an amateur, not a currency trader, so I don't need exact dates (exact dates are probably hard to come by anyhow). Just a rough year/month would be great. Thanks. ECS LIVA Z (talk) 04:10, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

According to Currency_intervention#Chinese_yuan, it sounds like the devaluation is going on as late as 2010. But unfortunately it doesn't given an end date. ECS LIVA Z (talk) 04:12, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

The RMB has generally been appreciating since about 2005, when China changed from a peg to the USD to a limited float based on a basket of currencies. In 2008-9, due to the impact of the financial crisis, the RMB was devalued to deal with the general slowdown of the Chinese economy and falling property prices. As the impact of the financial crisis dissipated, the exchange rate mechanism for the CNY was further liberalised from May 2010, from which point it has generally been slowly appreciating again (although since 2014 it has depreciated against the USD, this is more due to the appreciation of the USD against the basket).

My impression is that it is not a consensus view that China is deliberately overvaluing the RMB today. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 11:38, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

Queen Elizabeth II's longest-serving Prime Minister

My calculations indicate that Denzil Douglas was Queen Elizabeth's longest-serving prime minister of her reign (so far). However, there does not seem to be a list anywhere that confirms he is the longest-serving PM. Does anyone know of one?

The closest we seem to have is List of Prime Ministers of Queen Elizabeth II, but you probably already knew that. It's a start anyway. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 06:20, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

That's what I originally used! It's a valuable resource. When I have time, I'd like to make a page: List of Queen Elizabeth's prime ministers by time served.

Just to provide context, Denzil Douglas was prime minister of Saint Kitts and Nevis from July 1995 to Feb 2015. Gandalf61 (talk) 08:53, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

You could add a column of time served, and then make the table sortable. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:45, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

If you are flexible in your definition, have a look at Sir Seewoosagur Ramgoolam who was chief minister of Mauritius before independence, then prime minister thereafter, making a total of more than 20 years (1961 to 1982). Wymspen (talk) 15:56, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

There is always one who makes it difficult to decide on a definitive answer!

Robert Menzies (Australia) beats Denzil Douglas even if you only include the Elizabethan years of his office! Djbcjk (talk) 04:22, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

Not sure how, Menzies served just over 18 years in total, and about 14 under Elizabeth. Denzil Douglas served just over 19 years under Elizabeth. Menzies fails on both counts. --Jayron32 04:25, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

'Numbered' companies in Canada

There seem to be many companies in Canada just with a number in the style 7654321 Canada Inc., not with a distinctive name. The List of companies of Canada implies that none of them are notable. Does this mean that companies don't need a name in Canada? Is it possible to enclose which companies chose to have it this way? Is this scheme also used in other countries? --KnightMove (talk) 11:47, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Wikipedia has a short article titled Numbered company. There's a few refs and external links that may lead to more information. --Jayron32 12:38, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

In many countries, you can buy a new company "off the shelf" from a lawyer's office or similar, when you are to start a business. Many people find this is easier than to go through the procedure of founding and registering a company yourself. Companies like these usually have some kind of generic name before being bought. I supposed these number companies are companies of that kind. Bandy Hoppsan (talk) 21:52, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

British intelligence agency 'BTSS'

Coverage of the recent Wikileaks release makes mention of an apparent organisation within British intelligence called BTSS. This is for example mentioned in the same breath as MI5 in the Wikileaks press release: "The attack against Samsung smart TVs was developed in cooperation with the United Kingdom's MI5/BTSS." Looking to find out what BTSS might be I see that we don't have anything in Wikipedia, and what I can see that turns up on the web is just from the last day or two in relation to the leak. Can anyone work out what is actually being referred to here? Wyddgrug (talk) 13:59, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Couldn't find anything specific, but BT is the abbreviation for British Telecommunications, now a private company but formerly the government monopoly corporation for telecommunications. Intelligence and Government in Britain and the United States notes surveillance and signals intelligence cooperation between MI5 and BT. Alansplodge (talk) 14:17, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

The official name of MI5 is the Security Service or SS. Perhaps that is part of the acronym there? --Jayron32 14:28, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

The Guardian seems to think it stands for British Security Service [2] although the way they indicated that is IMO misleading. Nil Einne (talk) 14:38, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

I agree. They have it in a quote as if it's from the original document, which made me think it might just be internal CIA jargon for British intelligence, with the SS standing as Jayron suggests for Security Service, but when you follow the link to the document as published by Wikileaks it's clear that it was added by the Guardian as a gloss, on what basis is not clear. Wyddgrug (talk) 15:16, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Value of work done by women

What reasons have been expressed by employers and payroll managers for paying less money to women than to men for equivalent work? (This may interest User:Keilana.)
—Wavelength (talk) 20:25, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

• Most won't, at least not in the U.S., because acknowledging there is a bias in the workplace can open the company up to a discrimination lawsuit. The gender wage gap is mainly an issue of systemic bias, meaning that because of decisions that women make (such as becoming mothers or using maternity leave), employers favor them negatively due to a perceived drop in work performance or attendance/reliability (even if this drop is imperceptible or nonexistent).--WaltCip (talk) 20:56, 8 March 2017 (UTC)
• Anecdotally, I've heard one or two people say "Men should be paid more than women because men pay more in expenses to keep a roof over the family's head."--WaltCip (talk) 20:58, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

(ec)Where? When? It must depend mostly on whether there's legislation against the practice. Traditionally it was "because they're women, what do you expect". Now it is more likely to be "do we do that? don't think so", or "you can't prove it", or "the work's not exactly equivalent", or "there are more men in the higher grades but it's working its way out", or "because the silly things will go off on career breaks". Itsmejudith (talk) 21:02, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Thank you all for your replies. I found six excuses at http://time.com/money/4285843/gender-pay-gap-excuses-wrong/.

—Wavelength (talk) 23:35, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Assumption that humans should live "ethically"

Why do humans believe that they should live "ethically"? What is ethics for? Why is it considered immoral to kill or hurt other humans? Why is it immoral to hog all the resources? Is morality for binding humans together to share scarce resources, or is morality for reducing suffering? What is wrong with suffering, even though suffering is necessary to improve? Why can't humans just allow themselves to endure suffering instead of avoiding suffering? 107.77.193.107 (talk) 22:18, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Read "Ethics" and see where it leads. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:21, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Also A Theory of Justice (preferably the book, not just the article) and, for a much lower level view, Altruism (biology). --Stephan Schulz (talk) 00:28, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

Wow. How many years do you have? In general, the branch of human knowledge known as philosophy attempts to answer many of these questions, (especially the ethics branch astutely noted by Mr. Bugs above), but there is no way we can summarize all possible perspectives on the questions you ask in a simple thread. The source and necessity of ethics and morality has wildly varied perspectives, from the the theological arguments known as Thomism (after Thomas Aquinas), to the Utilitarianism of Bentham and J.S. Mill to the Nihilism of Nietzsche and 30 other philosophical schools that I haven't bothered to list, there are WAY too many perspectives to answer your questions in a pithy little thread on this board. --Jayron32 02:58, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

If you want an evolutionary perspective, there are whole books on the subject, such as "Moral Minds: The Nature of Right and Wrong" by Marc D. Hauser. AnonMoos (talk) 10:45, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

If the OP wonders about why it's immoral to kill, all he has to do is ask himself, "Do I have a problem with someone killing me?" If the answer is "Yes", then he has the answer to his question. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:20, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

Not so. Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi. While I strongly support concepts like the golden rule or the categorical imperative, the symmetry that underlies them is not self-evident. Why should I, Jupiter, care about what you bovines feel or experience? After all, I'm more important (to me), and because I'm important, my opinion counts! ;-). From a pragmatic point of view, of course, if I behave anti-socially, the more social members of humanity may well band together and break my nose - that's reason to behave well. Add a few hundred generations of evolution and sexual selection for people with unbroken noses, and it becomes an ingrained principle. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 14:31, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

The initial point was illustrated by Dogbert when he said, "You're not me, therefore you're irrelevant."[3] And your second point explains the process of how deeds come to be considered "immoral" - it doesn't just happen overnight. Some of the OP's questions don't stand up to scrutiny, as they contain questionable assumptions, such as "suffering is necessary to improve." ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:34, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

Just for some background to the above comments, when AnonMoos brings up biological rationales, he's using a well-known tradition called natural law (one philosophical school for ethics), whereas Schulz's point about society keeping him in line, is part of social contract thinking. --Jayron32 14:44, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

You could also read about Ayn Rand and her ideas about rational egotism at Objectivism (Ayn Rand). If you read about how Ayn Rand herself got on it might make you think twice about her philosophy which was far too shallow to really encompass where her own best interests lay. Dmcq (talk) 23:18, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

Your questions rest on ill-founded logic. There have been plenty of human societies that have had no problem whatsoever with killing, hurting or sucking up resources. There is no absolute and unarguable human ethics or morality code, only subjective ones. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 12:03, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

March 9

Mariant Brothers and Father Data

Hi, I'd like some information on the following Marianist Brothers and Father, we cannot find this information. Brother John McCluskey, Brother William Callahan, Father Daniel Winters and Brother Donald McCoy. Mr. Christopher Dean The information looking for are date of birth, place of birth, work history, time spent headmasters at St Paul's College Altona North, Australia, their role in the school establishment and running of St Paul's and any other data about them. Thank you for your time and assistance. Violeta — Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.77.90.73 (talk) 07:47, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

Hi, your very best source is likely to be the college itself; have you talked to them yet? There is contact information on this page. 184.147.120.176 (talk) 13:36, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

There's a brief biography of John McCluskey (1912-1998) at Chaminade Quarterly, Winter 2006 on page 7 (page 4 of 8 in the pdf file): "In 1964, he became the founding headmaster of St. Paul’s College in Melbourne, as well as the first Marianist to serve in Australia. Brother John returned to Chaminade in 1970 and continued teaching until his retirement in 1984, returning to California in 1987". Alansplodge (talk) 17:47, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

Daniel Winters gets a mention at The University of Dayton Alumnus, Fall 1966 on page 20 (page 21-22 of the file): "[Class of] 1956... Father Daniel Winters will serve as the chaplain at the Marianist establishment at St. Paul's College, Altona North, Victoria". I believe "1956" here would be his graduation year from the University of Dayton, but I'm not certain (it's an American thing!). Alansplodge (talk) 18:30, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

I get a tantalising Google result for Donald McCoy at News Record from North Hills, Pennsylvania (p. 9) "11 Oct 1985 - McCoy is former headmaster of St. Paul's College in Altona North, ... Brother Donald McCoy McCoy taught at North Catholic from 1958 to 1960...". I'm afraid that you have to create an account to see any more. We have an article about North Catholic High School which seems to be the same place. That's all I could find online I'm afraid. Alansplodge (talk) 18:49, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

I was wrong, Br William Thomas "Brother Bill" Callahan (1920-2012) has turned up at findagrave.com with a biography. This document seems to be the source for that. There's a small photo of him at The Story of 150 Years of Marianist Education in the Diocese of Cleveland on page 18 (20/27). Now I think I've reached the bottom of the barrel. Alansplodge (talk) 19:16, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

Hawaiian Paniolo

According to the some sources Kamehameha III sent a royal emissary to California in 1832 to bring back Spanish vaqueros Kossuth, Louzeida and Ramon, who started the Paniolo tradition, can anybody help me find sources for the full name of these three figures and the name of the emissary sent by the king?--KAVEBEAR (talk) 08:28, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

I haven't read it, but you may want to seek out This book . It seems to be the most comprehensive book on the subject. --Jayron32 17:24, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

It does have preview available in google books: [4] What I can read may provide further clues for research: "Few, if any, contemporary records for the activities of Kossuth, Louzeida, and Ramon exist, though accounts agree that they came from California and they arrived in 1832." (this is marked with footnote 89, but I can't read the footnotes) "Brothers James and Isaac Louzada were active on the islands during this time, and James Louzada became involved in ranching in Waimea decades later. 'Ramon' may refer to the Ramon family from northwestern Mexico, including Frederico Ramon Baesa, who had a Yaqui Indian wife named Vincenta Romero." (footnote 90) "Kossuth remains a mystery." (footnote 91) "On April 27, 1833, an American merchant in Honolulu named Stephen Reynolds noted in his journal that the 'Brig Neo sailed for Hawaii [the Big Island] with horses & Spaniards to catch bullock for the king.'" (footnote 92) "Some accounts clain that it was the governor of the Big Island, John Adams Kuakini, and not the king, who requested the service of vaqueros from California, and it is clear that he supervised efforts to rationalize the management of the herds on his island." (no footnote) 184.147.120.176 (talk) 18:21, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

Here is James and Isaac's grave in Honolulu. Alansplodge (talk)

I also managed to get a Google search result (although I can't actually see the page) from the "Cattle Colonialism" book linked above, to page 144, which says: "The early Hawaiian vaquero of whom we know the most is the aforementioned Joaquin Armas, whose grievances against the Hawaiian .." and also, probably a footnote: "94 Armas related, “In the month of May 1831 I came to Oahu in the British whale ship Harriet".

Another "snippet view" for Rangelands, Volumes 5-6, Society for Range Management, 1983 (p. 101): "In 1832 or 33, three Mexican vaqueros arrived on the Big Island, Juan, Jose, and Joaquin, to teach the natives the art of cattle handling. These were not the first Mexicans or Spaniards with cow savvy to appear on the Hawaiian scene... The other was Joaquin Armas, who was wooed off his ship by King Kauikeaouli in 1831 to help catch wild cattle in the Waimean area".

A detailed account of Armas is viewable in preview at Loyal to the Land: The Legendary Parker Ranch, 750-1950 by Billy Bergin (p. 34). Alansplodge (talk)

Australian Capital Territory flags

In 2011 I posed a question on an image talk page that has not yet got an answer: File talk:Legislative Assembly ACT Chamber.jpg. The image shows the chamber of the Australian Capital Territory Legislative Assembly. Four flags are present, three of them reasonably clear (see the image talk page), but the one I'm stumped by is on the right. Any ideas? Beorhtwulf (talk) 12:33, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

List of Australian flags suggests possibly Christmas Island but it is hard to tell. --Jayron32 12:38, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

Scratch that. It's the Torres Strait Islanders flag. See here. The other three are the Australian Flag, the ACT flag, and the Aboriginal flag. --Jayron32 12:45, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

Excellent, thank you! Beorhtwulf (talk) 15:06, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

Mystery initials to decipher: "IA ’43, MBA 2/’47, DCS ’58"

Hello. I am working on Stephen H. Fuller. On this webpage, it says, "IA ’43, MBA 2/’47, DCS ’58." I get that he earned a master in business administration in 1947, but does anyone know what IA and DCS stand for please? Also, 2/'47? What is 2? I've already asked at WP:Biography and they suggested I ask here. Please ping me when you reply. Thank you.Zigzig20s (talk) 19:38, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

Just a guess, but if "M" in MBA is "Master" then perhaps "D" in DCS is "Doctor" - perhaps Doctor of Philosophy in Computer Science. Not sure if there was such a thing in 1958 - it was the year I was born! Alansplodge (talk) 21:09, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

@Zigzig20s: [Edit Conflicts] The 2 in question would surely just indicate February?

IA can mean Intermediate of Arts, which is at least an educational qualification, but it seems unlikely in Fuller's case. Internal Assessment might be more likely for Fuller, but seems to me to be an odd thing to list on its own.

"DSC" might be a mis-rendering of D.Sc., the standard abbreviation for Doctor of Science. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.202.209.145 (talk) 22:20, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

In 1958 it would have much more likely been a Doctorate in Commercial Science. See [5]. General Ization ^Talk 22:13, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

IA was an Industrial Administrator degree. [6] General Ization ^Talk 22:16, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

Which best fits his later career, and would lead neatly on to his subsequent MBA, so ignore my earlier possibilities. General Ization's link shows that adding to an IA to obtain an MBA only required one further semester, so the latter's 2/'47 = Feb 1947 interpretation becomes more likely. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.202.209.145 (talk) 22:25, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

One thing I can tell you is that according to the SSDI (via ancestry.com, a pay site) his birth date is Feb 4, 1920. I'm not seeing anything about colleges, though. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:18, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

President declaring martial law

Has any president of the United States ever declared martial law before? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Uncle dan is home (talk • contribs) 22:10, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

Martial law includes a list of martial law declarations in America. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:20, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

Before what? μηδείς (talk) 04:12, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

Presumably now. --Jayron32 04:39, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

March 10

Anglo-Saxon male lines

So according their articles and Burke's Peerage the Arden family, Berkeley family and the Swinton family are the only families in England that can trace its lineage in the male line back to Anglo-Saxon times; something the British Royal family cannot since they are female line descendants of the House of Wessex. Does this mean these are the only families ever in English history with that distinction or are their families that may have had that same distinction who survived for a couple of centuries after the Conquest and have died out in the male line since.--96.41.155.253 (talk) 05:10, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

It seems almost certain that many English men survived the conquest of 1066, went on to have male children, and then their male children had male children, and so on, for some time after 1066. --165.225.80.115 (talk) 10:19, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

There are many of us here in England who think that our male ancestor line here goes back to Anglo-Saxon times, but because our ancestors were not famous, we are not able to prove this. Dbfirs 10:54, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

That's obvious and no one would doubt that given the genetic studies done on the English people, but not relevant to my question in regard to detailed family lineages. By that logic, all human on earth have male line ancestors who lived before 1066. But few if any have detailed records of that line of descent that far back, which is what I am asking for.--96.41.155.253 (talk) 10:57, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

Not all to Anglo-Saxon ancestors though. My point was that, in general, records were kept only for famous people, so for most of us the records have been lost. Dbfirs 11:03, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

That is the crux of the issue: genealogies were only kept for noble families and the Anglo-Saxon nobility were almost all deprived of their lands and holdings after the Conquest. "The old English aristocracy, mainly composed of the king's thegns, virtually disappeared with the conquest and was replaced by a new aristocracy". (from The Effects of the Norman Conquest on Anglo-Saxon Aristocracy. Alansplodge (talk) 11:41, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

• Wikipedia's coverage eventually runs out, but the Earls of Dunbar are all male-line descendants from Gospatric, Earl of Northumbria, and looking at the child lists from the Wikipedia articles that do exist, they seem to have been a particularly fecund family, with plenty of possible male lines to follow. The Earls of Dunbar and March was forefeited in the 1400s, but the last Earl had male sons, and if you go back there are lots of potential branches to explore there. According to our article, Gospatric may have been Anglo-Saxon or Scottish in the male line, it is hard to say as his parentage is a bit sketchy. So there is one possible connection. Looking for more through Wikipedia. --Jayron32 11:58, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
• See Weld-Blundell family for a possible line of inquiry. --Jayron32 12:45, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

The centenary of the Russian Revolution

How does Russia commemorate the centenary of the 1917 revolutions that shook the world? Do they celebrate or mourn? --91.223.63.71 (talk) 11:02, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

Read this and this for some perspectives. --Jayron32 11:40, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

91.223.63.71 -- today's Russian government appropriates to itself both imperial Russian symbolism (see flag, coat of arms, close collaboration with Orthodox church which has declared Nicholas II and his family saints, etc.) and Soviet symbolism (the crimes and glaring military failings of Stalin are played down, while the final WW2 victory is played up, etc.). The most symbolically disgusting thing that Putin personally participates in is "Chekists' Day", whose post-1991 message is apparently that a bloody and brutal secret police is a good thing in itself, regardless of what cause it happens to serve (they might as well rename it Cheka-Okhrana Day). I would expect that many of the history-referring details of the Russian 2017 commemorations will end up being a little muddled, but an overall message of the personal gloriousness of Vladimir Putin will come through loud and clear. AnonMoos (talk) 16:26, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

Here's a Newsweek article from a couple of weeks ago that sort of updates the one that Jayron linked to. A Google search for Putin revolution centennial turns up a bunch of recent stuff. Deor (talk) 19:52, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

So far the anniversary has been played down. The ultra-conservative government is not keen to celebrate an uprising of any sort. The centenary of the last tsar's abdication has not been noticed by the mainstream media at all. ‘Revolution? What Revolution?’ Russia Asks 100 Years Later. --Ghirla^-трёп- 09:20, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

Art

http://i.imgur.com/9ognamU.jpg

What style of art is this?

Benjamin (talk) 12:01, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

That is a photo of a conservatory in someone's house. I'm not seeing much art there. Do you mean the shelving unit on the right? Or do you mean that the photo itself is the art, and you're wondering what style of art the photo is? --Viennese Waltz 12:03, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

Yes, I'm talking about the photo. I'm assuming it was taken / displayed with artistic intent. Benjamin (talk) 12:05, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

In broad category, it would be a Still life. Blueboar (talk) 12:22, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

Anything more specific? Benjamin (talk) 12:26, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

Still life photography? We're at a disadvantage here; we don't know why you think there's some particular artistic intent. When you figure that part out (by yourself, not here), you may be able to come back with a more answerable question. FWIW, it looks like a random snap taken with little thought or care using a phone camera or similar device, but YMMV, of course. Matt Deres (talk) 00:45, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

Spencer

Are there any sources analysing the effect of Richard Spencer being punched? I've seen some saying it makes his ideas stronger, some weaker, but none reliable. Also, if there are no sources about this event, are there any about similar past events? Thanks. Benjamin (talk) 12:04, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

See Richard B. Spencer for those (like me) ignorant of his existence. Alansplodge (talk) 15:27, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

A quick google search shows that the incident caused a brief flurry of discussion on social media, (as people debated questions like: "Is it OK to punch a Nazi?")... however, that flurry was short lived, and social media quickly moved on to discussion of other things. I can find nothing to show that the incident effected how people actually viewed Spencer or his ideas. It seems that the incident did nothing to change people's minds. Those who supported his ideas before he was punched still support, and those who opposed them still oppose. Blueboar (talk) 12:45, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

That's likely to be true in general. When Buzz Aldrin slugged a Moon Landing denier, it's unlikely there was any seismic shift in opinions on the Apollo program. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:24, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

In a more general sense, are there any sources that talk about the significance, or lack of significance, of that *kind* of event? Benjamin (talk) 12:48, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

It's an older study (1987), but this seems relevant. --Jayron32 13:26, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. Benjamin (talk) 13:55, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Same with Bernard Levin [7] and John Prescott, although the politics were different of course. 5.150.92.20 (talk) 14:05, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

How about this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZyQiwlAHlc Benjamin (talk) 14:18, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

Anaxagoras and the Earth/Sun model

Our article on Anaxagoras said he believed the Earth to be flat. I remember having read somewhere that he had already observed (before Eratosthenes) that sun rays came at different angles depending on the latitude, but explained it by a finite Earth-sun distance (i.e. the Earth is flat, but the Sun is close enough that moving on Earth's surface changes it position in the sky). Can someone confirm or infirm that story? (I wanted to post it at Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Science#Flat_Earth_Hypothesis_is_easily_proven_wrong but I found nothing online, so I grew suspicious.) Tigraan^{Click here to contact me} 12:25, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

Not just finite, but quite close. The Sun would need to be thousands of miles away, rather than millions. StuRat (talk) 00:47, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

Considering (see the article linked in the question) that he thought it was a mass of hot stone or metal "larger than the Peloponnese, or say maybe a couple of hundred miles wide, that distance would be reasonable enough. --76.71.6.254 (talk) 05:25, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

Well, the story I had read said he went on to calculate the Earth-Sun distance, and found something close to what is really the Earth's radius (not totally a coincidence). Yet this contribution to science was totally forgotten, just because he took the wrong hypothesis and Eratosthenes took the correct one. If true it would be a nice story about epistemology; se non è vero, è ben trovato, but I would still like to know if it is true. Tigraan^{Click here to contact me} 14:59, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

Visas eligibility to USA

I fully understand that questions for legal advice are not answered here. However...I've been advised that someone (in this case a child, my daughter) who 'has a claim to US citizenship' - in this case because I am in fact an American citizen - is therefore 'not eligible for visa to visit the US'. So I'm looking for some reference to what rules or law that might be? My daughter has a Russian passport, permanent Dutch residence, and we don't plan to apply for American citizenship for her - in fact we're in the process of obtaining Dutch citizenship for her, me and her mother. Can someone help me find a reference or rule or law that would explain why, if you could be an American citizen, but aren't one, you would be denied the possibility of a visa. Thanks if you can help with a concrete reference or link. I've been googling but its an unusual circumstance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.104.125.11 (talk) 14:01, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

The US generally require US nationals to enter the US on US passports regardless any other nationalities, so refusing to issue visas for them isn't that surprising [8]. Nil Einne (talk) 14:14, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

(EC) The US generally require US nationals to enter the US on US passports regardless any other nationalities, so refusing to issue US visas for US nationals isn't that surprising [9] United States nationality law#Responsibilities of citizens. You should also take care with issues like "claim to .. citizenship". This isn't legal advice and I'm explicitly not referring to the US here, I don't know enough about it but in some cases you either are a citizen or not. Issue like registration etc in some cases only affect whether it's known about and how the person can get a passport, they may not affect whether the person is a citizen. See [10] and the earlier article and links for general info on whether or not a person may be a US citizen. Nil Einne (talk) 14:24, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

I came across [11] which seems to come close to linking the issues I referred to above. Note again this is not legal advice, even if I did have a legal understanding of about US nationality law or entry requirements, I definitely do not know enough about your daughters situation that I could provide it anyway. Nil Einne (talk) 14:35, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

The nearest embassy or consulate is the best place to find out how to navigate border crossings. See List of diplomatic missions of the United States to find one near you. If you are a permanent Netherlands resident, it appears there is an Embassy in The Hague and a Consulate in Amsterdam. --Jayron32 14:40, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

(EC) OP, how reliable was the source of your advice? It sounds like it might be an interpretation of the "immigrant intent" concept under US immigration law, i.e. that generally someone who is likely to want to settle in the US would be denied a visa that is meant to be for a non-immigrant purpose. By the fact that you are Googling and asking random people on the internet, it sounds like you don't trust the source of your advice. If so, you should probably check with a reliable source like a lawyer. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 14:28, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

I'm the OP. Thanks (Palace Guard) for your input. My advice was in fact the US Embassy. They received my daughter's visa application, and sent me the message I quoted from above. My daughter is not a US citizen, and there isn't a plan to be one. I'm trying to find good info with references to prepare for negotiating with the Embassy. I wouldn't think that they can impose US citizenship on her. Thanks anyone who can point me to hard information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.104.125.11 (talk) 18:35, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

With the usual "I am not a lawyer" caveats, I notice your phrase "my daughter is not a US citizen", but I wonder if this is in fact not true. Due to the nature of birthright citizenship in the US, if you, her father, was a US citizen at the time of her birth, then there is a strong possibility that your daughter was born a US citizen and, absent specific and deliberate action to change that state of affairs, remains so. The linked Department of State site explicitly notes that automatically acquiring non-US nationality does not jeopardize one's US nationality, and that voluntarily acquiring non-US nationality only "may" jeopardize one's US nationality. To that end, the embassy saying that someone "has a claim to citizenship" may well not mean "could potentially acquire citizenship" but rather "may already be a citizen". Additionally, the linked DoS site notes that one can renounce US nationality at a US embassy or consulate (ensure that you do in fact have another valid nationality before doing so). — Lomn 20:31, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

Regarding someone automatically being a US citizen without wanting to take advantage of it (and indeed, regretting not having renounced it early on), see Boris Johnson, the British politician. Loraof (talk) 21:54, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

Yes Lomn has said explicitly what I was saying above. I suggest you read carefully the links I've provided, they are not legal advice but you'd note they largely refer to whether a person is actually a US citizen from birth or not, rather than whether a person can become a US citizen and they mostly deal with US law rather than policies of embassy officials. Embassy officials would generally be expected to follow the law.

If you're able to read this it will probably be of interest [12] it seems to deal with people in similar situations of yours but the key point which is perhaps glossed over seems to be

A person born abroad to a U.S. citizen parent or parents will acquire U.S. citizenship at birth provided the statutory requirements of the Immigration and Nationality Act for transmission of U.S. citizenship are met, and regardless of whether the person is ever documented as a U.S. citizen (by obtaining a Consular Report of Birth Abroad of a U.S. Citizen, a U.S. passport, and/or a Certificate of Citizenship). Practically speaking, however, in general “it is the process of being documented as a U.S. citizen that would result in official government recognition of the child’s U.S. citizenship status,” according to Karen Christensen, Deputy Assistant Secretary for Overseas Citizens Services, in the Bureau of Consular Affairs at the Department of State.

That said, U.S. citizens born abroad are technically liable for taxes even if their parents don’t register their birth with American authorities, according to Gregory Wald, principal at Squire Patton Boggs. But Uncle Sam is unlikely to chase these people down, he added. “The tax liabilities of such individuals are likely to be quite minimal. I would imagine that it is more expensive to monitor for these individuals than the potential income that the Treasury are likely to receive from them.”

As for renunciation, I'd note it's unlikely a parent can renounce their child's citizenship. They may be able to renounce their own citizenship which may affect the citizenship of children but probably only if they haven't already acquired citizenship through them (i.e. if someone did acquire citizenship from birth, there's a good chance a parent renouncing their citizenship isn't going to affect their children's citizenship which was acquired from birth). This blog from a law firm [13] explicitly comments on minors renouncing US citizenship and suggests the earliest it's possible is 16 but more likely 18.

But again, I'd strongly urge you to seek legal advice. This part may seem a bit rude but it's important. My comment was intentionally vague but it IMO provided sufficient info to draw the obvious conclusion that Lomn said more explicitly namely there is no particular reason to think your daughter has a claim to US citizenship rather than either being or not being a US citizen; with the likelihood of each easily resolved by checking out the appropriate links. The fact you weren't able to understand this strongly suggests this isn't something you should try dealing with youself.

Nil Einne (talk) 02:39, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

I'd particular note the WSJ blog info is relevant but you should also take care against drawing too many conclusions from it. Notably there is an obvious difference between tax liabilities and visas. When someone applies for a visa, officials would generally be expected to consider the appropriateness of granting a visa based on US law and policies. If for example, a parent is applying for a visa for their child but not themselves because they are a US citizenship, officials may consider the obvious implications of that in their decision. If the parent renounced their citizenship, officials may consider when this happened. Nil Einne (talk) 03:12, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

You could try asking at UK-Yankee Forum which is concerned mainly with Americans in the UK but they are very knowledgeable about visas, accidental Americans and cover other EU countries also. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.40.140.12 (talk) 14:16, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

March 11

Reformation in Islam for women

What are things in Islam that women want to be reformed? meaning to change? like e.g. role in the mosque? Donmust90 (talk) 00:14, 11 March 2017 (UTC)Donmust90Donmust90 (talk) 00:14, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

See Islamic feminism. Ian.thomson (talk) 00:17, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

Note that many of the many practices regarding women associated with Islam aren't actually part of Islam, but rather come from cultures which practice Islam. For examples, Islam only states that men and women must dress "modestly", and some cultures concluded from this that women must wear full burqas, others just wear headscarves, and others don't require covering a woman's hair at all. StuRat (talk) 00:43, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

Donmust90 -- you seem to have the idea that "reform" will necessarily mean more rights for women, but many of the self-proclaimed reformers or reform movements within Islam during the last 85 years or so have sought to replace customary or "popular" or Sufi-influenced forms of Islam with "back to the origins" or puritanical tendencies, which has resulted in additional restrictions on women (or at a minimum, taking rules which formerly applied mainly to one class of women in a society, and applying them uniformly to women of all classes). This applied in the Hejaz with the Wahhabite conquest of 1932, Zia-ul-Haq's Islamisation in Pakistan, the Iranian revolution, etc. In a number of Arab or Muslim countries, it was observable that when the previously prevailing secular nationalist ideology started to be partially supplanted by Islamism in the late 1970s, social customs became more rigid in some respects. In the United States (until rather recently) a common tendency has been for recent immigrants to come to have more influence over mosque administration than long-term American residents, in which case women have often lost rights in the mosques which they previously possessed. The main formal or organized countertrend is probably Islam hadhari, but that has limited influence in one country only, as far as I can tell... AnonMoos (talk) 06:52, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

2017 Port Hills fires

While looking to see whether we had an article on the ongoing wildfires in Kansas (examples 1 and 2), I encountered the 2017 Port Hills fires article. The infobox claims that these fires are ongoing, but as the article consists solely of information from mid-February, I question this. Are these fires still ongoing? Nyttend (talk) 05:28, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

Depends what you mean by ongoing and fires. There is probably still some theoretical risk of flareups, e.g. these from between two weeks to about 1 week ago [14] [15] [16] [17] and make clear hotspots are still being extinguished. The weather has been a lot cooler in recent days and also with some rain but the area hasn't been that affected by the storms which have hit the North Island causing flood etc [18] nor have I heard anything about the fire being finally fully extinguished (and the info in the sources strongly suggest they weren't expect to be extinguished by now) suggesting there are likely still some hotspots. However despite the slight risk of a flareups, most of the restrictions have now been lifted and the risk seems low enough that for a lot of people the focus is on assessing, recovery and rebuilding, not on the risk of fires [19] [20] [21]. Those four days was where most of the damage happened [22] . Nil Einne (talk) 10:20, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

Online Certificate to become an Ordained Minister Online

Dear all.

I have seen that it is possible to get an online certificate to become an ordained minister. I am a Protestant and was wondering whether it is possible to make a small course to get ordained (you know, some basics in theology and church history etc.). Although I have seen, that there are certifications that you can simply “buy” off the Internet, I was wondering whether or not it is possible to make an actual online course to “earn” such a certificate. Does anyone of you have a tip for me, where I could find such an online certification course?

Thank you for your answers

All the best--2A02:120B:C3FD:6760:C15E:8A5D:3955:6CA8 (talk) 11:36, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

This is the kind of thing for which you should primarily talk with the leaders of your church. Is your pastor familiar with any such programs, has he heard of anyone whom your denomination has accepted as a minister who took such courses and later was ordained by outsiders, etc.? Of course, if you're in an independent church, your pastor's answer won't be particularly helpful beyond the walls of your own congregation, due to the anarchic nature of non-denominationalism, although I'm not clear how much of an issue that is in Switzerland (I can learn where your IP address originates through WHOIS) as it is here in the USA. Ignoring the ordination side of things, there is plenty of online theological education. Some will not be accredited from a legal perspective, simply because many smaller theological institutions serve their own denominations (or independent congregations) and the reputation of the parent denomination or congregation serves the same purpose for graduates seeking ecclesiastical positions, although the larger seminaries will of course be accredited because they want to serve a broader student body. Here are some examples of accredited seminaries (all USA) of which I'm aware: [23] (Dallas Theological Seminary), fundamentalist; [24] Asbury Theological Seminary, evangelical to fundamentalist; [25], Liberty University Divinity School, fundamentalist; [26], Reformed Theological Seminary, conservative confessional. I checked a lot of the liberal seminaries of which I'm aware, but none of them appeared to have online programs. Of course, if your denomination/independent church is unfamiliar with a seminary (especially an unaccredited seminary), don't take classes from it; the leaders need to know that you're getting an education from an institution theologically compatible with your denomination/independent church's beliefs. A graduate of a conservative confessional seminary, or a graduate of a fundamentalist seminary, may be viewed as a fanatic by a liberal church, while a graduate of a liberal seminary may be viewed as a heretic by a fundamentalist or conservative confessional church. Nyttend (talk) 13:08, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

Hi Nyttend, thank you for your answer and the links, they were very helpful! I am currently a member of the Swiss Reformed Church (“Evangelisch-reformierte Kirchen der Schweiz” in my mother language). I would love to talk to my pastor, but I have currently none. I had a good relationship with a pastor, but he passed away around seven years ago, after his death, the mother church shutdown the church where he used to serve as a pastor. There is no currently existing church of my own brand in the place where I live (there is only a Catholic Church nearby). I made some online course in the USA, and was impressed that I was largely accepted by most churches over there and was considered to be an “evangelical”.--2A02:120B:C3FD:6760:957E:FC9B:B9BC:AEA (talk) 17:13, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

If the concern is with the requirement to pay, many online ordinations are free of charge. This past Christmas, my son, as a gag, became ordained three times and didn't pay once. As an example, Universal Life Church, which seems to be one of the popular churches for people to ordain themselves in so they may marry friends, charges no fees for ordination. However, different areas will have different stances on the privilege to marry couples and may or may not recognize any particular church. Matt Deres (talk) 17:32, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

I'm a bit confused by your English. You say you want to "make" (past tense = "made") a class. That would mean you would design the class and others would then take it. Is this really what you meant, or do you mean you just want to "take" (past tense = "took") an existing class ? StuRat (talk) 18:02, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

I assumed that the OP was using "make" in the sense of "We're gonna make it to the church on time". Dbfirs 19:43, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

2A02:120B:C3FD:6760:957E:FC9B:B9BC:AEA, my suggestion is to contact some other minister within the classis (or whatever the relevant term is, if classis isn't the term used in the E-rKdS) of which your former congregation was a part, and ask advice from him. Something that didn't occur to me before is international matters — if you want to attend an accredited online seminary in the USA, remember that you'll be required to use the same books as American online students, and probably it will be harder to obtain them in Switzerland than in the USA unless you buy everything from Amazon or similar services. I'm going to guess that many American online seminary programs are meant primarily for the current pastor who wants to earn a theology degree without leaving his current church; if you contact a seminary that you're interested in attending online, you'd probably best start by asking whether they're capable of serving someone who's on a different continent. I'm sure they'd be happy to serve you, but whether they'd be able to serve you might be a different matter. Permit me to mention my own employer — I don't know if Liberty's divinity school has many foreign students in its online program, but as a whole the university's online programs serve students literally worldwide. Since you're in a continental Reformed church and you were considered an evangelical by American students, your theological position would probably be more in accord with Reformed Theological Seminary than with any of the other schools I found, and because they call their online program "RTS Global", I'm sure they're able to serve non-Americans. You'd need to consider, however, whether their online programs are what you need: they offer M.A. programs and certificate programs, but all of them are more on the academic side of things (biblical studies, theology, Christian philosophy, etc.) and not on the professional side — a man attending a Protestant seminary and planning to seek ordination will typically earn the M.Div., not an M.A. in anything, unless he's doing both. Of course, the best route (other than talking with someone from your classis) for that issue is contacting the RTS Global staff, who presumably will have experience with this kind of situation. Nyttend (talk) 02:08, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

Thank you all very, very much for your help and answers. I have assimilated most of the information you have given me. I think I am going to write to the RTS Global staff, it seems likely that they are in one way or another contacted to my own church.--2A02:120B:C3FD:6760:7DA8:7E9A:B66A:E734 (talk) 08:54, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

AUSTRIA/POLAND

CANNOT FIND ANYTHING ON THIS SUBJECT. WAS POLAND AND AUSTRIA EVER COMBINED? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chrisbaj10 (talk • contribs) 19:02, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

Moved from wrong page. Pinging @Chrisbaj10 czar 19:27, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

In the 18th century, Poland was divided between the (German) Kingdom of Prussia, the Russian Empire and the (Austrian) Hapsburg Empire. See the Partitions of Poland. Poland did not acquire nationhood again until the end of the First World War in 1918. The Austrian part of Poland was called the Kingdom of Galicia and Lodomeria; the capital was Lemburg, which is now in the Ukraine and is called Lviv (it was occupied by the Soviets in 1939 and nobody has given it back to Poland yet). Alansplodge (talk) 19:37, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

• You might be thinking of the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth which at times ruled what were at times part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. There's also the Holy Roman Empire. But using the terms Poland and Austria as currently delineated, there's no such beast. μηδείς (talk) 21:56, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

Happiness in Religions

Hi, which religion of the five major religions makes its people the happiest? (I am looking for a citation to a survey) 31.154.81.69 (talk) 19:57, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

Official ‘Well-Being’ Statistics Show Religious People Are Happier Than Atheists which says that: "Of all the faiths in the UK, Hindus are the happiest, scoring well above the national average and just under the demographic of people who consider themselves to be “in very good health”, according to data compiled by the Office for National Statistics. Christians - of all denominations - were the second happiest, followed by Sikhs and Buddhists. Those who followed these religions were happier than the average person..." Alansplodge (talk) 20:19, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

Thank you! 31.154.81.23 (talk) 11:05, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

• Just to note... "happiness" is not necessarily the goal of these religions. Christianity's goal is salvation. Islam's goal is submission to Alah. Achieving these goals may make someone happy... but that is a secondary byproduct. Blueboar (talk) 12:05, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

And if one religious group is happier than another on average then it doesn't have to be caused by the religion. Choosing a religion based on a happiness survey would be particularly problematic since converts or newly religious people may be atypical for various reasons. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:00, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

March 12

Multi-owner trademarks

In United States trademark law, is it possible for two or more independent parties (as opposed to related parties, e.g. two subsidiaries of the same parent company) to co-own a trademark? Imagine that Burger King and McDonalds independently develop a sandwich with certain features. Instead of trying to hurt each other, the two decide to cooperate temporarily because Wendy's will start offering a sandwich with the same contents once the new thing takes off, and they want to boost name recognition for theirs while forcing the hypothetical Wendy's sandwich to use some separate name. Therefore, McD's and BK together apply for a single trademark that both will use at the new sandwich's name, and they agree not to sub-license it to any competitors. If it met all the other registration criteria, would this joint trademark have a chance at registration, or would it be excluded simply because it's owned by two companies that aren't related? I'm aware that my specific example might provoke charges of collusion, but I don't think that all potential instances of multi-owner trademarks would necessarily risk collusion claims, so my question should still go ahead. Nyttend (talk) 03:48, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

The Trademark article says it can be "any legal entity". If McD and BK entered into a Joint venture, it seems reasonable that a legal entity could result and could register a trademark. (I can think of instances of this kind of thing in my own industry, but that's manufacturing as opposed to fast food.) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:17, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

How does that work? Basically the two companies form "McKing, Inc.", which registers the trademark and then issues licenses to McDonald's and Burger King allowing them to use McKing's trademark? Nyttend (talk) 05:11, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

It's disputed, but DC and Marvel claim to jointly hold a trademark on the term Super Hero. Rojomoke (talk) 04:55, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

Germane: When two become one – the complications of joint mark ownership --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆 𝄐𝄇} 00:17, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

European politician's quote on word for "child" across languages

Back around 2001-2004, a European body (it may have been the European Union) made a proposal to criminalize sex with or among adolescents under the age of 18. It referred to itself as protecting "children" and said it was to stop "children" from having sex. One politician objected to the infantilization of 16- and 17-year-olds with this proposed age of consent measure, and was quoted in the media as saying something like, "In no language does the word for 'child' refer to anyone later than his or her early teens". Which politician was this, and what was his exact quote? I've entered Google queries like "'no language' 'word for child' 'early teens'" and had no luck at all finding articles on this nor even the quote. I've even tried substituting "any language", "word meaning child" and "low teens", with still no cigar. (Indonesian may be an exception to this, though, as its word for "teenager", anak_belasan_tahun, is derived from anak, meaning "child". Palmar-plantar keratoderma (talk) 04:22, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

For legal purposes it might be useful to look at different countries and their languages' word for "minor," referring to a person who has yet to reach the legally designated age of adulthood ("majority"). -- Deborahjay (talk) 07:15, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

Afterthought: Attaining the set age of majority isn't necessarily identical to the designated age in whatever country for such activities as marriage, purchasing and using alcohol-tobacco-firearms-and-explosives, eligibility for military conscription, and of course voting to elect the officials who regulate all this. -- Deborahjay (talk) 07:46, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

The document in question was the 2001 "Framework decision on combating the sexual exploitation of children and child pornography" produced by the European Commission, which was criticised because it defined anyone under 18 as a child. Wymspen (talk) 15:04, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

There would probably be less controversy about that now. Itsmejudith (talk) 17:32, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

Using that tip, I've found the quote: at http://www.rklambda.at/archiv/symposium/sympos_en.htm : "No language in the world ever used the term child for persons beyond their early teens. It was the Convention on the Rights of the Child of 1989 which first did away with the distinction between children and adolescents and labelled all minors under 18 children." Thanks for pointing me in this direction, Wymspen! Palmar-plantar keratoderma (talk) 20:53, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

Children's poetry

Probably English -

I lie on my back and I stare at the sky I see woolly sheep-clouds go wandering by The wind is their shepherd so gentle and strong He sings as he shepherds his sheep-clouds along

Can't remember any more.

Can anyone help me find the whole poem? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.157.164.30 (talk) 15:54, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

I've tried doing searches on Google for you. However there are hundreds of poems which sound similar if you do a search with a link of the poem you've described but I can't pinpoint which one it is.... Other's will have to step in here Stewart Little (talk) 16:02, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

I tried several fragments of your poem and none of them find a match on Google. The best I could do was from Mary Hunter Austin: "The wind is the shepherd who drives the clouds / Across the fields of the sky..." The Road to the Spring: Collected Poems of Mary Austin. A large number of 19th and early 20th century children's books included poems like this, and unless somebody has transcribed the text, Google wouldn't pick it up. Alansplodge (talk) 19:58, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

Can you successfully sue an insurance company for breach of contract if they sell you can insurance contract which is contrary to public policy and then refuse to pay up?

Or would your lack of insurable interest in regards to this ensure that your lawsuit would fail? Futurist110 (talk) 20:47, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

That would depend on the laws in your region, as well as on what "contrary to public policy" would mean. You would need to find a lawyer to see whether a suit might have a chance of success. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 20:54, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

Assuming that you are just asking about insurable interest, the answer is no, except to the extent that you seek a recovery of premiums paid plus interest. "Issuing a policy, or insuring property, with knowledge of the true situation, may estop or preclude the insurer from questioning the sufficiency of the insured's interest. However, this rule does not validate or render enforceable a policy where there is an entire absence of an insurable interest. Neither waiver nor estoppel may be invoked in that situation." Corpus Juris Secundum, Insurance § 323 (footnotes omitted). John M Baker (talk) 02:34, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

• Read clean hands or in pari delicto and draw your own conclusions about the enforceability of an illegal contract you signed. Tigraan^{Click here to contact me} 08:41, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

Books about the euro

I want to get someone (an economist) a book about the euro as a present. My first thought was Joseph Stiglitz, but there are two listed on amazon: The Euro: And its Threat to the Future of Europe and The Euro: How a Common Currency Threatens the Future of Europe, one from June 2016 and one from August 2016. What's the difference and which is best to get? Are there any other good books about the euro and its problems/challenges/future that you can recommend. thanks. --ZygonLieutenant (talk) 22:45, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

The appear to be US and UK editions of the same book - the "common currency" being added in the US version as the publisher clearly thinks a lot of Americans won't know what the Euro is. Wymspen (talk) 23:10, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

And think it means The European: Its Threat to the Future of Europe The Euro (viral dance): Its Threat to the Future of Europe or The Euro (perverted sexual thing): Its Threat to the Future of Europe? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 02:44, 13 March 2017

Possibly - though confusion between the Euro and the EU seems more likely. Wymspen (talk) 10:10, 13 March 2017 (UTC) (UTC)

March 13

I AM FEEL UNHAPPY

I am not happy to the situation that is making wikimedia common to put me to the empty hands,online.If I can receive a message that will make them to encourage me online,I will be happy.