Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case

Requests for arbitration

Arbitration Committee proceedings

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Case requests

Request name	Motions	Initiated	Votes
George Galloway		26 May 2018	5/2/0
Advanced permissions of Andrevan		4 June 2018	4/1/1

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Open cases

Case name	Links	Evidence due	Prop. Dec. due
Venezuelan politics	(t) (ev / t) (ws / t) (pd / t)	20 Apr 2024	04 May 2024

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Recently closed cases (Past cases)

Case name	Closed
Conflict of interest management	13 Apr 2024
Mzajac	7 May 2024

Clarification and Amendment requests

Request name	Motions	Case	Posted
Amendment request: Conduct in deletion-related editing	none	(orig. case)	30 April 2024
Clarification request: Palestine-Israel articles 4	none	(orig. case)	13 May 2024
Amendment request: Article titles and capitalisation	none	(orig. case)	13 May 2024

Arbitrator motions

No arbitrator motions are currently open.

George Galloway

Initiated by Guy (Help!) at 09:37, 26 May 2018 (UTC)

Involved parties

• JzG (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA), filing party
• Philip Cross (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• KalHolmann (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request

• [1]
• [2]

Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

• https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&oldid=843016996#Philip_Cross summarises these.

Statement by JzG

Philip Cross (PC) is a long-standing and prolific editor who has made many edits to articles about George Galloway and related topics, generally (ahem) not supportive of Galloway. Galloway has attacked PC off-wiki for this [3], and encouraged outing [4]. Galloway characterises this as politically motivated attacks on "anti-war" people - I find this unpersuasive, not least per the lede of the Galloway article. For the same reason I find the idea of a directed attack against Galloway to be entirely plausible. Galloway is a divisive and marginal figure with more enemies than friends, and any properly neutral depiction of him is unlikely to please him, but in the view of many PC's edits go well beyond that.

PC has not helped his case: he has responded to and then sparred with Galloway off-wiki and in doing so openly linked to his Wikipedia persona. That implicitly drags Wikipedia into the battle, and editors apparently supportive of Galloway, notably KalHolmann, have duly brought the battle back home, making numerous (IMO speculative) complaints of COI and (also speculatively) linking PC to other accounts / real world individuals.

This is under discussion at AN, where I raised it, but I think the involvement of private data and the off-wiki element makes that a dangerous route to final determination - the AN thread already includes encouragement to off-wiki sleuthing, which precedent shows to be a bad idea.

It is somewhat unfair of me to single out KalHolmann as a party, he is representative of a number of others but he seems to be the most vocal and will IMO at least be able to clearly articulate the concerns of the pro-Galloway camp. KalHolmann has engaged in some forum shopping / canvassing and adding content about the dispute from inappropriate sources such as Sputnik e.g. [5] (Galloway works for Sputnik, an RT brand), but issues with KalHolmann's conduct seem low grade and should not obscure a possibly much bigger problem with PC. Either that or PC is the victim of an off-wiki harassment campaign and needs to be able to clear his name, which is very difficult without credible evidence of his real-world identity, which, if released, would likely result in physical danger to him.

This is an off-wiki dispute about Wikipedia, imported to Wikipedia. It is inherently difficult for the community to handle not least because some off-wiki material would result in an instant block or ban if repeated here and we have very blurred lines about linking to off-wiki outing and harassment. A temporary injunction may be needed to prevent (a) further questionable edits by PC and (b) continued problematic behaviour by Galloway apologists. There may be a need for private submission of evidence due to off-wiki outing speculation and other issues.

I believe that ArbCom is the only appropriate venue to resolve this issue as I do not think it can be solved without private data and potentially privately establishing real world identities. Guy (Help!) 09:37, 26 May 2018 (UTC)

Pace Cullen328, I am not ascribing motives here. If you come to Wikipedia bearing allegations from RT, it natural to suspect that they may have a dog in the fight, especially when the edit history consists largely or exclusively of politically charged articles. I do not assert, and would like to be clear on this, that everyone concerned about PC is pro-Galloway. If it were only boosters v. knockers it would be an easy one to fix. Many good faith onlookers express concern, hence bringing this here. Apologies if I seemed to be casting aspersions. I'm really not. Guy (Help!) 19:01, 26 May 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Philip Cross

Not a formal statement, but a response to the points raised by two Arbcom members below. I will not edit the George Galloway article again for an indeterminate length of time regardless of any decision. This also includes quite minor changes, like the two I made on 24 May 2018 here and here which I unwisely assumed would be entirely uncontentious and could not be interpretated as being anything other than "positive". Plus the other articles which have been queried by interested parties, including the article about Oliver Kamm with the proviso about very minor edits also applying to them, and accepting any interventions by administrators if I should err in future. Philip Cross (talk) 16:04, 26 May 2018 (UTC)

In response to the comment by Newyorkbrad below to the points raised by Huldra, I posted this on the Administrator's noticeboard a few minutes ago. 18:48, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

I have recently posted comments on my user talk page which are relevant to the (closed) Administrator's Noticeboard discussion and the discussion here, especially the comments made below by User:Boing! said Zebedee. Philip Cross (talk) 22:05, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

Statement by KalHolmann

I deny the following charges against me made in the "Statement by JzG" above.

• I am not "apparently supportive of Galloway," except insofar as I believe his BLP should not be edited by someone with a clear and aggressive public animus against him
• I have not linked PC to other accounts / real world individuals, except for identifying the BLPs that he has edited of real people whom he has publicly called "punks" and "goons"
• I am not "representative of a number of others" and have never claimed to speak for anyone else
• I am not part of "the pro-Galloway camp"
• I am not a "Galloway apologist"
  

Yesterday in an ANI unrelated to Philip Cross or George Galloway et al., I argued that JzG should be topic-banned from any edits relating to Brian Martin (social scientist). Now, eleven hours later, JzG has initiated this Request for Arbitration prominently naming me. JzG employed this same maneuver at AN, where he deflected focus off Philip Cross and onto me. Notwithstanding JzG's diversionary tactics, however, I believe any fair reading of the AN will exonerate me. This is a case of an Admin shooting the messenger, and Wikipedians who support such behavior should be ashamed. KalHolmann (talk) 15:12, 26 May 2018 (UTC)

Statement by HouseOfChange

I have been co-editing and arguing with KalHolmann for months at Joy Ann Reid. There are many things we don't agree on. But my strong impression, based on his edits and arguments, is that he is a very conscientious editor who cares about the great Wikipedia project and wants to help build an encyclopedia. If you want a character reference for KalHolmann, ignore my words and look at the talk history of Joy Ann Reid.

Because his talk page is on my watchlist, I see that he has wandered into a minefield regarding British politics, an area where I know nothing. There is apparently something to be said on both sides of the Cross vs Galloway Wikipedia quarrel, but KalHolmaan took up one side of it and worked hard to get wider Wikipedia attention to a matter he thought was important. Rather than punishing him , I believe Wikipedia should thank him for a principled effort that resulted in open debate on what may be a serious issue for us. HouseOfChange (talk) 17:34, 26 May 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Boing! said Zebedee

It seems blindingly obvious to me that Philip Cross should not edit within a mile of the George Galloway BLP (and others with which he has publicly expressed animosity), and I think it shows a serious lack of judgment that he has done so over a lengthy period while engaged in a public spat with Mr Galloway in which he has made his presence as a Wikipedia editor clear. A Wikipedia editor absolutely should not edit anything related to a person while publicly attacking that person and labeling them as a "goon" or a "punk", and I am nothing less than appalled by Philip Cross's behaviour in this as his actions are clearly bringing Wikipedia into disrepute. In my opinion, even a full Wikipedia site ban would not be excessive unless we can be convinced that this will stop.

At this point, I think the topic ban proposal is probably sufficient (and I will make the point again that pretty much none of the opposition so far has offered any policy basis to their objections). But I am disturbed by suggestions of off-wiki connections that should not be aired on-wiki. If there is any need to consider these alleged off-wiki connections, then I think ArbCom would be the only appropriate venue.

• @Jytdog: Re: "Boing raises the issue of something broader than an actual interpersonal dispute, and that is expressing negative opinions about public figures/politicians (I think that is what Boing meant) on social media, and editing about them. That is... interesting. Difficult. There are all kinds of free speech issues there, but also harassment issues if their editing reflects the insults." That's sort of what I mean, yes, but with the addition that public comments (through social media or whatever) need to extend beyond mere opinion before it becomes a policy problem. The distinction is indeed a difficult one to make, but I think engaging on a one-on-one personal spat with the BLP subject over a lengthy period in which both parties exchange barbs crosses the line. And I think once that line has been crossed, the editor in question should no longer edit the BLP.
• @TParis: Interesting personal observation, and that does indeed blur the boundaries. But I think the key thing, as in my point above, is that it needs to extend beyond mere public comment. There can't be many who have not voiced a public comment about Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton (with my favourite comment from just before the election being the one that suggested "Americans could be on the verge of electing their worst ever president - or a worse one". I don't think that alone is prohibitive, but I'd expect anyone who had engaged in a one-on-one public spat with either of them to keep away from their BLPs.
• @Doug Weller: Yes, my thought was that the community discussion (which has now led to a topic ban) was probably sufficient (as I said above). But if off-wiki considerations were to become prominent (as was starting to be suggested) then ArbCom would be the only suitable venue. I do not now think that is the case. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 15:03, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Govindaharihari

user:Philip Cross - there is massive involved with him - not difficult is it. Looking through his contribution history, a case is really needed here. there is a massive involved concern across multiple wp:blp articles. the worst thing for wikipedia is that he has done it over years without ever getting blocked. that is what has happened, wikipedia policies allow a user like Cross to get away with long term non neutral involved contributions, that is what a case should look at, banning a violator from blp content is easy. Case needs renaming, Cross's controversial contibutions are across multiple living people. Cross's recent comments show that clearly he doesn't get it. He has today [6] changed this biography of a British journalist Peter Wilby beyond comparison. Govindaharihari (talk) 17:50, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Cullen328

I agree with much of what Guy wrote above and I hold him in high regard. However, I do object to the way he frames the dispute by describing those with deep concerns about Philip Cross's behavior as "the pro-Galloway camp" which consists of "Galloway apologists". I have no sympathy for Galloway's politics, am not part of a camp and am not an apologist. But even knaves and rogues worse than Galloway are entitled to the protection of BLP policy. The fact is that Philip Cross has edited Galloway's biography for years and is the most active editor there. Also for years, has openly taunted and insulted Galloway on Twitter, identifying himself as a Wikipedia editor. That is unseemly and I consider it conduct unbecoming of a Wikipedia editor. It brings disrepute to the encyclopedia, and that behavior and related behavior on other articles must be brought to an end. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 18:44, 26 May 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Huldra

I am not by any account in a socalled "the pro-Galloway camp", however I am very much in the "WP:BLP camp." Some of the statement/edits by Philip Cross by horrifies me...it brings me back to the bad, bad old day before the Daniel Brandt fiasco. Have we learned nothing? Philip Cross shouldn't only stay away from the George Galloway article; he need also to stay miles away from the articles of Matthew Gordon Banks, Craig Murray, Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmed, Tim Hayward (academic), Piers Robinson, John Pilger, Vanessa Beeley, Jeremy Corbyn, and Alex Salmond —and probably a few more that I have missed. Actually, a ban on him editing any WP:BLP article seem like a good idea to me, Huldra (talk) 22:00, 26 May 2018 (UTC)

Also, see this. A full ban on Philip Cross editing any WP:BLP seems like the minimum solution, at this stage, Huldra (talk) 22:55, 26 May 2018 (UTC)

Here Philip Cross tweets: Thank you, all the goons in one tweet.@georgegalloway @mwgbanks @CraigMurrayOrg @NafeezAhmed @Tim Hayward @piersRobinson1 @medialens ....that is: George Galloway, Matthew Gordon Banks, Craig Murray, Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmed, Tim Hayward (academic), Piers Robinson and Media Lens.

All of the above articles have been heavily edited by Philip Cross. Now, who among us here would feel comfortable having a WP:BLP on Wikipedia about ourself....edited by someone who has publicly called us a "goon"? I would guess exactly 0 persons.

So why do we let Philip Cross edit those articles? Huldra (talk) 20:35, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

And thank you, User:Jytdog for linking to NYT social media guidelines for their reporters, where the first point is:

•In social media posts, our journalists must not express partisan opinions, promote political views, endorse candidates, make offensive comments or do anything else that undercuts The Times’s journalistic reputation.

Ok, so we are Wikipedia editors, not NYTIMES journalists, but that guideline sure gives rooms for thoughts, Huldra (talk) 21:35, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Ok, for those of you who don't remember, (or were not around) during the Daniel Brandt fiasco: Mr Brandt did not want a Wikipedia article about himself, and told WP so. When that was ignored (with a lot of rather spiteful comments from various anon editors), Brandt set up his own Wikipedia Watch page.....outing all he could, who had edited/commented on his Wikipedia page. In the end I believe he outed anyone he could who had any "power" on Wikipedia. After Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Daniel Brandt (14th nomination) it was merged, then deleted. (And then Brandt took down the Wikipedia Watch page.) It was as if I was watching a Scorched earth policy....unfolding on the internet. I rather not see that again.

I do not like George Galloway offering a reward for outing Philip Cross...(I am an anon myself, and intend to remain that way)....but I can perfectly understand where Galloway is coming from.

Also, for User:Coretheapple comment that Philip Cross twitter feed has less than 300 followers, yes, but many of those twitter followers are mainstream British journalist...it is not the quantity of your followers which matter... Huldra (talk) 21:36, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Robert McClenon

The statement above by Philip Cross unfortunately does not, to my view (and I am cynical about stubborn editors) read well. Philip Cross writes: “I will not edit the George Galloway article again for an indeterminate length of time regardless of any decision.” In short: “I’ll be back … I just won’t say when.” It is very common for aggressive or passive-aggressive editors, after a trip to WP:ANI, to say that they need to take an extended break from Wikipedia. In the past, it was the usual rule to drop the ANI proceedings. A few months later, the difficult editor would come back, and the community had to deal with them all over again. What I see is a disruptive editor who is willing to take a break from disruption, and expects this to be a Get Out of Sanctions free card. If the ArbCom declines to accept a case, then Philip Cross will come back in a few months. They said so. They just didn’t say when.

I don’t have a recommendation at this time on whether ArbCom should accept a full case, possibly with closed evidence. However, if ArbCom decides not to accept a full case, I would urge, at a minimum, an infinite topic-ban on editing of George Galloway. (Indeterminate doesn’t mean infinite. Indefinite does not mean infinite. In this case, the ban should be infinite, or at least until some date like 2038 that represents the end of the world.) I will note that Huldra has recommended restrictions on other biographies of living persons also.

The statement by Philip Cross is self-servingly mealy-mouthed from an editor who is otherwise not mealy-mouthed, and needs to be parsed, and dealt with by some sort of restriction.

Robert McClenon (talk) 23:29, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

Update

I see that the community has imposed a topic-ban.

I haven't reviewed the details of the controversy sufficiently to have an opinion on whether it is still necessary for ArbCom to act. Robert McClenon (talk) 22:34, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Jytdog

This is getting a bit ...overheated to me.

In my view the only reason to bring this to Arbcom, is the BLPCOI aspect with respect to the off-WP activity. There are other... unmoored claims about "COI" and I have not been able to figure out what that is about. The only relevant thing I can see with respect to COI, is BLPCOI. That, however, is a very serious thing. That is also only' about someone editing about people that they have real world disputes with. That is concrete. Social media, is now part of the real world.

Boing raises the issue of something broader than an actual interpersonal dispute, and that is expressing negative opinions about public figures/politicians (I think that is what Boing meant) on social media, and editing about them. That is... interesting. Difficult. There are all kinds of free speech issues there, but also harassment issues if their editing reflects the insults.

I called for this to go Arbcom at AN, and at that time, I had not looked carefully at PC's userpage history. I have now, and PC did disclose here that their twitter handle is @philipcross63

In my view, the first question for Arbcom is: can members of the community look at @philipcross63's tweets, and deal with them here on WP, or not?

The second question is, does tweeting insults about a public figure (not interacting with them), and then editing about them, create a BLPCOI or harassment issue per se? Again, insulting a politician is different from actually arguing with that person. In my view.

In any case, if the answer to the first question is "yes", then simply say that, close this case, and kick this back to the community, and we can do the rest. That doesn't need to happen here. (Arbcom could choose to keep it here, to better control the discussion and have it ordered, similar to the WWII case currently pending)

If the answer to the first question is "no", then the first tasks for Arbcom are to examine the tweets of @philipcross63 and

a) to determine with whom PC has disputed on Twitter and edited about here (this establishes off-WP disputes) (the TBAN is with respect to one person only)

b) to determine whom PC has insulted on Twitter and edited about here, and think about if this constitutes a BLPCOI or harassment violation, and if it is even in Arbcom's purview to decide that (this is why you get the big bucks)

c) to see if there is any other apparent issue with respect to RW disputes in social media and PC's editing (just leaving that open)

d) to at minimum put TBANs in place with respect to the people PC has disputed with, and based on what Arbcom finds, consider a TBAN from BLPs.

e) to inform the community of those TBANs and anything else that emerges, so we can review those pages for neutrality.

I think the answer to the first question should be "no", fwiw. I do not like the idea of the community digging around in people's off-WP activities.

I am unsure with regard to the second question, and also unsure whether this is intrinsically a BLPCOI or harassment issue with the insults. Interpersonal disputes in the real world are definitely a BLPCOI issue if the person also edits about that person.

But again, this is primarily at Arbcom to deal with (or clear the community to deal with) the off-WP material. Jytdog (talk) 05:12, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

User:Boing! said Zebedee thanks for clarifying. So you did not mean the situation where hypothetically @philipcross63 is tweeting insults about X, but never interacts wiht X, and is prolifically editing about X. You meant, @philipcross63 is arguing with X on twitter and insulting them, and edits about X here.

Nonetheless, what you wrote made me think about the former possible situation. It is something to think about. As an example here are the NYT social media guidelines for their reporters, revised in 2017: "The new guidelines underscore our newsroom’s appreciation for the important role social media now plays in our journalism, but also call for our journalists to take extra care to avoid expressing partisan opinions or editorializing on issues that The Times is covering." For them, that is kind of obvious, right? But ...how should such a principle apply here, to editors? That is the question your post made me think about. Narrowly asked -- does using social media to just insult public figures, intrinsically create a BLPCOI situation for us, if the person also edits here about that figure? What I wrote at AN is that the optics of what PC has done are very bad. I agree with TParis that the edits are what matter. But public perception of WP matters too. Jytdog (talk) 15:13, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

• I just want to clarify that this is not a "COI" matter per se - it is primarily a BLP matter, with COI only brought in with respect to BLPCOI, which is a different kettle of fish from normal COI considerations. It may be a harassment matter as well per WP:HNE. Jytdog (talk) 00:14, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

• Would the committee please speak clearly as to what off-WP material is legit for people to discuss, with regard to this, and what is not, in light of what PC has posted on WP? This would be very helpful. Thx Jytdog (talk) 05:55, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Galobtter

I don't believe there is any long-term pov-pushing, or any sort of long term problems of Cross with BLPs or George Galloway, and I think we may just be going into a WITCH HUNT. I can't say for certain, because it is hard to prove a negative, but based on what I've looked at and the fringeness of the sources claiming that Cross has problems with his editing, my overall feeling is that this is mostly people complaining about Cross using mainstream sources and removing things primary sourced to wikileaks/russian propaganda/other things like that.

Here's what I looked at, anyhow: I looked at a few of the edits to Galloway, and immediately found examples of him removing controversies/negative stuff about Galloway: [7], [8], which suggests against pov-pushing there.

I also looked at some of the claims made in the Craig Murray article, and found them not hold up very well. The claims about Philip Cross editing 15 hours a day is obvious nonsense. Another claim was that Cross removed stuff about Ruth Smeeth apparently being an "informer to the US government". The removal appears very sensible considering this explanation, and indeed I removed it again.

Another claim was that Cross called Murray's "wife a stripper" when editing the Craig Murray article, but I actually see the very opposite: replacing that she worked as a "a dancer, 'in just [-] underwear'", with "belly dancer", and replacing that he met here at a lap-dancing club with that he met her at a nightclub. I went through his edits on Craig Murray, and I see Cross scrupulously following BLP; removing Murray's children's name per BLPNAME, regularily removing Daily Mail sources ([9], [10] etc) and so on. My feeling is that the complaining is because he is not treating primary sources from Wikileaks/Murray as the Truth.

Overall I see lots of grand claims without any backing, and various offwiki conspiracy theories. Even here, I see Huldra's statement on banning him from all BLPs, for example, is apparently somewhat based on this google doc, alleging apparently a conspiracy between Kamm and Cross; but I don't think the committee should start a case based on the existence of such sort of claims.

I suggest, that if committee members like BU Rob13 want to look at long-term pov-pushing, to not accept a case merely based on internet hubbub and vague/misleading articles off-wiki, with perhaps an assumption that if there is smoke there must be fire. As usual, claims about someone being a long term malicious pov-pusher, should be backed up with diffs to be taken seriously. Galobtter (pingó mió) 07:33, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

I don't think so that just expressing an insult to a BLP offwiki is enough for COI. While if one is in a dispute, one shouldn't edit the BLP article, people should be free to be activists off-wiki; what matters then is if they are pov-pushing on-wiki. I also find Cross's comments linked in his statement on his tweets being mainly a recent thing and in response to offwiki harassment to be relevant, as it also shows that the length of the COI editing is perhaps short. Galobtter (pingó mió) 07:52, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Statement by TParis

Regarding Jytdog's comments, I have follow on concerns that Arbcom should consider.

1) If it's true that no one that has made a critical comment of a public person should be editing their article, then we all have a lot to own up to. Who hasn't made a critical comment of Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton on social media? Between those two people, I could probably expect about 99% of American Wikipedian's to stop editing American politics. I was at the WikiConference in San Diego during the 2016 Presidential Debates and 95% of the room was shouting obscenities during the debate (a debate that the hosts had put on the screens despite my objections) and resulted in several Wikipedians feeling attacked and that they were in the middle of a hostile group despite Wikipedia's "Safe Space" policy. Long story short, that entire room was very open with their hostility toward Donald Trump. Others continue to edit that topic area.

2) Do supportive comments of public figures similarly fall under this precedent?

3) If Philip Cross is admonished for public tweets regarding Galloway, that is going to open a can of worms of opposition research. If Wikipedians in disputes can learn the real life identities of their opposition, they can effectively get rid of them by digging through their social media accounts for off the cuff remarks that could be seen as "bias".

Let's continue to operate the way we've always done it: which is the most fair and justifiable way. Focus on the edits, not the editor.--v/r - TP 12:06, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

@Gamaliel: Ask Rosie or Brenda what happened.--v/r - TP 00:02, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

@Gamaliel: You're welcome to get the story via email or on my talk page.--v/r - TP 16:17, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Tanbircdq

Here's some of the articles which have been publishced in the last few days:

• List noted by Arbcom

Some of the articles are very uncomfortable reading. Philip Cross revealing his COI publicly and baiting the subjects on Twitter is very inapporpriate of a Wikipedia editor, clearly bringing the encylopedia into disrepute and this conduct can't continue.

Wikipedia editors shouldn't be editing pages of subjects who they are publicly let alone privately in dispute with.

As per Huldra, I think Philip Cross' topic ban shouldn't be limited to George Galloway it should extend to the numerous other articles if not a full site ban. Tanbircdq (talk) 13:51, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Question by Count Iblis

Will George Galloway be invited to take part in the ArbCom case? Count Iblis (talk) 18:40, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Statement by power~enwiki

I feel the nature of off-wiki activity here may justify a private case regarding Philip Cross; I don't intend to comment or participate in such a matter.

If there is a public case, I feel the correct scope may be "British Politics", rather than focused purely on BLP matters or any individual editor. Articles such as Antisemitism in the UK Labour Party have POV issues caused by a variety of editors. power~enwiki (π, ν) 18:40, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Gamaliel

As Communications Chair of WikiConference North America 2016 I am obligated to respond to the erroneous claims that TParis has made above.   Our Sunday evening reception was held on the same evening as one of the presidential debates.  We planned well in advance to show the debate at the reception at the request of a number of attendees, including some of the keynote speakers, all of whom stated they would not attend the reception otherwise. The reception was held in a 500 person capacity, 3500 square foot room with two large open-air patios on either side. There was ample space for attendees to avoid any interaction with the debate or those watching the debate, even in the same room.

It was an evening reception and there was a cash bar, so there were definitely some saucy comments thrown at the screen during the debate.  Differing political opinions often make people uncomfortable, certainly, but neither I nor any of the other organizers of WikiConference North America can recall witnessing or hearing a report of any incident such as TParis described that we would consider a violation of the Safe Space Policy for events.   (Of course, there were definitely some unrelated Safe Space concerns and incidents that evening and throughout the conference.)  In attendance that evening were the entire WCNA organizing team, most of WCNA's volunteers including TParis, the executive director of the Wikimedia Foundation, and a large percentage of the WMF's Trust and Safety team (with whom we worked with closely regarding Safe Space incidents during the conference).  If any Safe Space Policy violations occurred and the organizing team failed to address them, surely one of those people I listed would have taken some action at the time or sometime during the last two years. 

I and the organizing team attended the entire reception and speaking for us all I can flatly state that the claim "95% of the room was shouting obscenities during the debate" is false and the Two Minutes Hate described by TParis did not occur.  It is disappointing that a well-respected editor like TParis has chosen to unfairly malign his fellow volunteers and conference attendees in such a matter.

On behalf of WikiConference North America Gamaliel (talk) 23:47, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Speaking for myself only on the matter at hand, I do believe that sensible people are able to distinguish between airing your political opinions on Twitter and taunting the subject of an article you are writing with particular edits. Gamaliel (talk) 23:47, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

@TParis: I spoke with Rosiestep and a number of the other lead organizers before posting here and I'm speaking on behalf of all of us. Gamaliel (talk) 15:16, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

Statement from 173.228.123.166

The case request might be premature since discussion at AN is not yet exhausted. If it's just about Philip Cross and George Galloway, AN discussion is headed towards a PC/GG topic ban based on WP:BLPCOI, and now PC has volunteered to step away from those articles, so that would seem to wrap it up. An arbitration case (if opened) should investigate wider issues and shouldn't be called "George Galloway". Particularly, the absence of Twitter posts that show a COI shouldn't result in our allowing long-term biased editing of the sort being alleged. We should all do our best to edit neutrally regardless of whatever private biases we have.

More widely, people on the interwebs are claiming PC is a long-term agenda pusher or possibly a state-sponsored propaganda operation, fueled partly by a blog post[11] by Craig Murray that you have probably seen. Wikipedia doing nothing about this gives the impression we're not keeping our house in order. Jimbo and WMUK reinforced that impression by brushing off concerns (Streisand effect). So now there's a lot of internet outrage directed at us, maybe driven by an anti-Philip Cross propaganda operation in its own right, but people are finding it convincing. There are currently 27 Reddit threads linked to the Craig Murray post, plus the Hacker News threads[12][13] and now [14] that drew my attention to the issue, and who knows what else. I have no idea if those posts were coordinated, but Wikipedia is taking a beating in all of them.

So I think that if there is a private arb case that doesn't result in scorched earth remedies, it will be seen as another whitewash. And the part any case about this would need the most is a tedious examination of Philip Cross's edit history, which is not private and is best examined in the open. There are some limited facets of the situation that involve real names and other private info. But if there is a case at all, a normal open one should suffice, with some limited evidence submitted privately, as is routine in lots of cases when off-wiki evidence comes up. What people outside want most is for us to take the concerns seriously, check them out carefully and openly, and come to some reasonable conclusion. They mostly don't give a rip about left-wing UK politics (Hacker News is a tech forum that is US-centric and if anything leans libertarian) but they don't like the idea of Wikipedia ignoring long-running content manipulation from any corner. 173.228.123.166 (talk) 20:37, 26 May 2018 (UTC)

Added

I don't agree with Jytdog's view that this is a COI case: I don't even see it as substantively a BLP case. The central allegation I see is content manipulation through POV-pushing, with BLP impact as an aggravating factor making the problem more urgent. Unless there's surprising new info I also currently don't think the privacy issues are very relevant. It makes almost no difference whether Philip Cross and Oliver Kamm merely follow each other on Twitter or are in some closer cahoots. So if there is an arb case, it can probably ignore that whole question and just focus on Cross's on-wiki edits. Private evidence can still be submitted but it's unlikely to be important.

I imagine the necessary analysis as being something like the Noleander case of a few years back, as I mentioned in an AN post earlier tonight.[15] That case didn't involve BLP's, but it involved a long pattern of tendentious editing that could only be established by examining 1000s of diffs. Lots of that examination happened before the arb case was filed. Similar examination hasn't happened here since it's such hassle, and because the case was somewhat thrown at us from outside. (Since I haven't stepped up, I can't blame others for also not stepping up). BU Rob13 indirectly called for such analysis but I just don't see it happening in the current circumstances.

Under AMPOL discretionary sanctions, people who edit tendentiously in US politics routinely get tbanned from the whole topic area, unilaterally by uninvolved admins. Here, it might be enough to just monitor the situation while giving the George Galloway topic ban some time. If problems continue, AN can discuss a possible wider sanction, maybe from politics in general rather than from BLP's. One can get into all sorts of mischief distorting political articles without touching a BLP. (I'm not claiming Philip Cross is definitely doing that, but only that there are plausible allegations of such that I see as worthy of investigation but whose current status is "unproven").

Alex Shih: people shouldn't be able to make us open arb cases merely by spamming Reddit, unless those cases should be opened anyway. But this may be a genuine instance of us needing an outside poke because we've been asleep at the wheel. That happens sometimes. 173.228.123.166 (talk) 06:08, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

• above statement by 173.228.123.166 copied from Special:Permalink/843427125#George_Galloway_case_request. Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) 05:24, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Thryduulf

I was invited to this request by a message on my talk page from Alex Shih. I wasn't aware of the dispute prior to that message as I generally steer clear of editing or discussing British politics articles (I have strong political opinions and so its not always easy for me to judge what is and is not neutral). That said, I've read the ANI thread Alex linked to and this case request, and I encourage the committee to accept a public case (with private evidence accepted where necessary in the usual manner) to examine a few questions:

1. Has Philip Cross edited in violation of the BLP and/or BLPCOI policy with respect to George Galloway and/or others?
2. Have any other parties violated the same policies with respect to those same individuals?
3. Going forwards, can Philip Cross' or other parties' judgement regarding BLP and or BLPCOI be trusted (either generally or in one or more specific topic areas)?
4. Are the current policies and guidelines around BLPCOI clear and fit for purpose, especially with regards social media? (If not the committee should obviously not make changes themselves but give direction to the community about what aspects should be looked at).

My suggestion for a case name would be "Philip Cross and others". I should stress that I am not presupposing the answer to any of these questions either way, and the Committee opening a case about them should not be seen as doing so either. There is simply enough happening to merit investigation to see whether there is anything that requires arbcom sanctions.

There might be scope for a wider case about British politics articles in general, as suggested e.g. by power~enwiki but it would be unhelpful and possibly counterproductive to combine that with a case looking at the actions of and around Philip Cross specifically.

The statements by 173.228.123.166 and Huldra, and the first two paragraphs of JzG's statement are particularly cogent. Thryduulf (talk) 12:22, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

Statement by John Cline

I think applying the well written guidelines at WP:COI is all that is needed to determine the correct course of action. My assessment coupled with the guideline confirms that Philip Cross does have a conflict of interest regarding George Galloway and quite probably some of the other living subjects as Huldra has suggested.

"That [Philip Cross] has a conflict of interest is a description of [his] situation, not a judgment about [his] opinions, integrity, or good faith." While coi-editing is discouraged, for good reasons, it is not preemptively forbidden in any way. It's not even actionable unless the coi-editing causes disruption.

Interestingly, the disruption is not contingent on nefarious motives or poor edit quality. It is quite possible that disruption can occur even when the edits themselves are high in quality (which is what seems to have occurred in this situation). I say this because the disruption evident in this and earlier threads is rather incontrovertible, yet no diffs have been linked showing poor quality edits.

To the contrary, Galobtter has shown that many edits are unambiguously well appended improvements, yet disruption exists so something has to change. I see this as necessitating that the conflicted editor cease editing in the area of conflict because it is entirely their burden for choosing to edit the area of know conflict in spite of being strongly encouraged not to.

In the absence of actual disruption, provided the edits are fully compliant with policy otherwise, the only thing the coi-editor is required to do is acknowledge their coi so other volunteers can scrutinize their edits accordingly. Therefor, unless someone can produce some diffs showing some form of incompetence or malice intent, the only thing to do is to quell the disruption and I suppose a topic ban would be the way forward.

I, nevertheless, think there could be something for this ArbCom to do, if further preventative measures are needed or desired and I think a motion could bring it about. Consider drafting a motion that treats an editor with a coi as if discretionary sanctions are authorized for them, individually, whenever they are found editing an article/page that is broadly within the area of conflict their coi encompasses. This would of course allow an uninvolved admin to shut the disruption down post haste when it spawns from their edits.--John Cline (talk) 13:53, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Coretheapple

I take a dim view of COI and am known for that. However, this is not a typical COI situation. According to a deeply disturbing article in a major media outlet that I found - I'd post a link but am not sure if it would be allowed by the outing policy - it is arguable that the Cross account is the subject of a "witch hunt" of a political character. I have not edited any of the articles in question and an unfamiliar with the editors involved. However, in light of the special circumstances, in my opinion the sole criteria that should be taken into consideration regarding these editors is their on-wiki edits. We should not act in response to off-wiki pressure, and in this case it appears that a wiki editor is possibly being subject of coordinated attacks by Russian/pro-Russian media as well as by the article subject. To act as "tools" of such outside forces sets a terrible precedent. Just don't. If the Cross account has been editing badly, sanction him. If not, don't. I have no opinion one way or the other on his behavior. User:TParis and I don't tend to agree in this subject area but in this case I am in 100% agreement with his comments. Coretheapple (talk) 17:59, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

@Newyorkbrad: Admittedly I'm late to this and don't know all the facts. When you say "publicly quarrel," I hope that you mean more than responding to attacks, which have included a 1000 British pound reward for doxing him. Again, I am very nervous about allowing Wikipedia to respond to act on the basis of any off-wiki pressure from political figures. Coretheapple (talk) 18:57, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

Just one other point. I located what appears to be the Twitter feed of the Cross editor, and if I have the right person he has under 300 followers. If that is what we're getting excited about, if that is the "public quarrel," then it is ludicrous. A person with so few followers can't be said to be involved in a "public quarrel" with a major public figure with hundreds of thousands of followers. What;s at issue here is that political figures dislike the editing by this person. Period. I find it very disturbing that the community imposed a topic ban on the basis of off-wiki pressure of this kind. I hope that Arbcom reverses it, though I can understand Cross voluntarily withdrawing from the subject matter as he has. Coretheapple (talk) 23:18, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

@User:Kashmiri Yes, the wording of BLPCOI applies to whether an editor is involved in a significant controversy or dispute with another individual. But I read that to cover situations in which an editor is a direct competitor of an article subject, or has engaged in litigation. In this instance, we have a dicey situation. As I read what has happened, the "controversy" was manufactured by the article subject. If the community bends to that will, then we give article subjects the implicit power to remove editors they dislike. That is why I suggest that we apply the principle of evaluating the edits, not the editor, and not allow that to happen. Re "Russian": that was the description of the controversy in an article in Haaretz, an Israeli newspaper that is hardly a hard-right organ. Coretheapple (talk) 22:41, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

@User:Kashmiri: Re your 31 May comment: that is the impression that I receive from the press coverage. I recommend that, if this case is accepted, that it be done publicly as there is no bona fide doxing issue that I can detect, and that users have the opportunity to cite open-source material such as news articles and tweets. Far more than this particular user's fate is at issue here. I think it would be terrible to allow article subjects to in effect manufacture controversies (yes, abetted by users taking the bait), so as to effectuate a de facto veto over editors they don't like. To determine if indeed that is happening, there needs to be examination of the off-wiki materials. Editors other than the subject need to be involved if they so wish, both to provide and to analyze evidence. That cannot be done in private proceedings. I'll conclude by noting that while I am alarmed by this case, recent edits by this editor in one article, Peter Wilby, do indeed suggest that he is POV-pushing and adding excessive detail, at least in that one article. If it is a pattern, then we have a whole different ball game here. So therefore I suggest that Arbcom accept this case and scrutinize, publicly, the conduct of both on- and off-wiki parties. Coretheapple (talk) 19:31, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

@User:Kashmiri: Certainly the devil is in the details. That's why the issues need to be explored fully, in the open. Arbcom, please, don't do this privately unless the editor himself feels that it is necessary and if the committee agrees. The exact parameters of just what constitutes a "public quarrel" under BLPCOI need to be hashed out. It may well be that this editor has been editing poorly and BLPCOI does not even apply. However, whatever is done I hope that it not be twisted by outside parties and exploited for their own political ends. If indeed there is a "witch hunt" as alleged by the media, let's not be a party to it. The only way of ensuring that is full transparency. Coretheapple (talk) 17:11, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Dave

Due to the nature of it all personally I think this should be a private case, The actions around of all this do need investigating if you like but as I said IMHO private would be better than public. –Davey2010^Talk 23:00, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

Statement by kashmiri

Considering the publicity around Philip Cross's editing and the fact that his declared off-wiki activism has potentially had a bearing on Wikipedia, both as its content and reputation, I support that ArbCom carries out a full investigation of the matter.

I have no particular preference as to whether the case should be heard in public or in private. The fact that Wikipedia's transparency has been questioned would suggest that a public hearing might offer a better opportunity to restore trust in the project. On the other hand, it seems that whatever was to be said has already been said and the key pieces of information will have to be shared privately anyway. As the matter involves PC's off-wiki activities, I am inclined to ask him how he would prefer the case to progress and whether he would be comfortable providing the required evidence to ArbCom in public. Noting that in lack of his co-operation the case will go nowhere.

EDIT: Coretheapple is making a convincing argument for a public hearing which I am inclined to support now as we likely have a pattern of editing that stretches many years. — kashmīrī ^TALK 21:17, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

I do not expect the ArbCom to attempt establishing the real-life identity as it is not their role. I only expect that they will elucidate the nature and extend of the potential COI as well as look more closely into the timing of PC's off-wiki conflict so as to establish to what degree it reflected in the editor's editing. — kashmīrī ^TALK 19:06, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

• @Coretheapple: An off-wiki element is inherent in the concept of COI, so I don't get how a COI investigation could be limited exclusively to on-wiki activities. I also find your derogatory use of "Russian/Pro-Russian" rather disturbing – do you imply that comparable witch-hunt by American/pro-American media would be more acceptable? BTW, not sure whether degree of "public" can be reliably measured by simple number of Twitter followers. — kashmīrī ^TALK 18:53, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

• @Coretheapple: I am not entirely sure the clash was "manufactured by Galloway". You need two hands to clap, says an old Hindi adage. Also, it appears that Cross was the first one to take a not-so-flattering interest in Galloway, and not the other way round. Anyway, one of ArbCom prerogatives is to investigate both the on- and off-wiki conduct. Here we should rather focus on arguing for or against the investigation instead of trying to approportion the blame. FYI, BLPCOI does not require litigation; the policy reads: "... legal, political, social, literary, scholarly, or other disputes" (underlining mine).

As to your fear that "we [would then] give article subjects the implicit power to remove editors they dislike", I vehemently disagree. If an article subject starts to complain publicly about a Wikipedia article, the proper way of addressing it is a discussion on respective Talk page. Going to Twitter instead and branding the article subject "a goon" with whom "I am at war" is precisely a behaviour that many object to, including me. — kashmīrī ^TALK 19:06, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

George Galloway: Clerk notes

This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

George Galloway: Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter <5/2/0>

Vote key: (Accept/decline/recuse)

• Awaiting statements, but I've read through the ANI thread and I think I have the gist. Philip Cross previously acknowledged that given recent developments he should not be editing the George Galloway article much. At this point I ask h im if he is willing to step away altogether from editing that article and perhaps a few related ones given his active participation in the controversy off-site. His doing so would not be a concession of any wrongdoing, merely an acknowledgement that it's a big wiki and no one should be indispensable in any particular place. One is free to call a public figure names on Twitter, and one is free to edit the public figure's Wikipedia article, but it is better for the same editor not to do both of these things. Newyorkbrad (talk) 12:48, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
  • My initial inclination was to decline a case at this point based on the commitment Philip Cross made above, but I've now seen the statement by Huldra and I believe it warrants Philip Cross's response. That response should be posted here to the extent it does not involve private information, and otherwise by e-mail to the Committee. Newyorkbrad (talk) 18:35, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
  • The section of the BLP policy stating that an editor who is in an off-wiki dispute with someone should not edit that someone's biographical article derives from principles developed in decisions by this Committee (see, e.g., Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Sexology and Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Manipulation of BLPs). Like any other wiki-policy or guideline, this rule needs to be construed and enforced in a sensible fashion. ¶ The community has concluded on the noticeboard, and I agree, that Philip Cross may no longer editing George Galloway. There is also an emerging consensus that Philip Cross should avoid other articles involving the people and entities with whom he has publicly quarreled; either the Committee or the AN discussion needs to work out the proper scope of a restriction (Philip Cross may himself wish to suggest one for consideration). I am not convinced that Philip Cross should be banned from all BLP editing, although I'm still reading the statements as they come in. ¶ I am not inclined to accept a case focused on Philip Cross's frequency of editing or allegations of that nature. While all editors should indeed seek a healthy wiki-life balance, many of the external-site claims about Philip Cross's quantity of editing appear to be overblown. ¶ There is no need for a case concerning KalHolmann. Newyorkbrad (talk) 18:40, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
• Agree with Brad. If PC doesn’t agree to step away, I would vote to accept this case, probably to be heard privately due to the apparent outing issues here. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 15:29, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
  • Decline based on the statement by PC¶¶, with a note that I will vote to accept a private case in the future if issues arise again. If PC has no intention to edit the article again, I see nothing for us to do here right now. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 16:54, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
  • @Euryalus and RickinBaltimore: Philip Cross is already topic banned indefinitely. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 00:12, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
  • Struck my decline. When I wrote it, this had been presented as a relatively simple issue on a narrow topic of Galloway. It's clear that's no longer the case. In particular, the claims of long-term POV pushing may warrant a look. This is normally something I'd want to push to the community, but because of the outing/privacy concerns, this seems to be the appropriate venue. If we wind up having a case, I'm leaning public case with encouragement to submit any evidence that involves private information to the Committee by email. Awaiting statements. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 02:48, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
  • Accept to examine the issue of COI/BLP editing by PC more broadly. Normally, this would be something the community could do, but that's not ideal given the off-wiki and private information involved. I think the case should be public, since PC's editing record should be scrutinized, but anything off-wiki should be submitted to the Arbitration Committee via email. If it turns out not to be private, we can post it publicly. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 03:44, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
• Decline with the same priviso that if the issues reoccur we should accept a private case. Doug Weller talk 18:25, 26 May 2018 (UTC)
  • At the moment I see no need to take the case. The community has enacted a topic ban which deals with the issue of how meaningful Cross's declaration is. Doug Weller talk 09:26, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
    • @Count Iblis: The Arbitration Committee deals with the conduct of editors, so no. Doug Weller talk 07:46, 30 May 2018 (UTC)
• Their commitment not to edit the Galloway article "for an indeterminate period" is noted, but would prefer we formalise this as a topic ban.Already done by Primefac There's a couple of other issues raised in this thread, but a topic ban motion would be a reasonable start. -- Euryalus (talk) 21:34, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

• @Tanbircdq: thanks for the list of articles, some of which offer useful context. I've removed the list from this page as some of the links are to pages which encourage outing of an editor. The Committee has seen the links, can view them in the page history, and will give them due consideration in the case request. -- Euryalus (talk) 21:24, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
• Noting that the topic ban was enacted by Primefac on May 27. Am inclined to suggest we add the words "broadly construed." Other views welcome. -- Euryalus (talk) 01:02, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

• While I respect that Philip Cross is willing to not edit the Galloway article for as he put it "an indeterminate period", that period should not be up to his discretion given the edit history. I would agree with a topic ban at the least on George Galloway. Adding to this comment, I also Accept this case, as there are much wider BLP issues at hand here. RickinBaltimore (talk) 12:11, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
• The topic ban has now been enacted based on the noticeboard discussion. Awaiting more statements, but I agree with Newyorkbrad also; Huldra's statement warrants a fuller response from Philip Cross. It appears that Philip Cross has themselves acknowledged that the range of articles stretch beyond George Galloway, so an investigation on whether or not there was longstanding COI editing across multiple BLP articles can be of interest for all parties involved. As a minor note, I am somewhat persuaded by this statement that is currently on hold. There are some potential social ramifications from the outcome of this case that may be worth considering, despite of being possibly out of scope. Alex Shih (talk) 02:38, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
• Accept essentially per Alex Shih, because I think there is a general BLP issue. All personal matters are already so much in the open that I see no need for this to be done in private. DGG ( talk ) 05:48, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
• Accept generally, I think this something that the community cannot handle on it's own due to the private information involved. Worm^TT(talk) 11:26, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
• Accept, in the interests of clarifying whether there has been ongoing COI/POV editing across BLP articles in British politics beyond just Galloway. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 00:06, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
• Decline (but see below). Lately I always seem to show up a day late and a dollar short to arb cases, usually prompted by someone making a decision I don't like so I finally have to tell myself 'OK, you have to finish reading that today'. So - the behavior that prompted this incident is cringe-inducing. It is frankly hard to imagine how someone could be a consistently active editor for over a decade and still be under the impression that this was OK. There have been several arb cases during that time articulating the point, if it was ever somehow unclear, that you can write someone's article or you can have a personal dispute with them, but you certainly cannot do both. The commenters above who point out that this brings Wikipedia into disrepute are exactly right. Now, PC has said they'll stay away from Galloway, and a topic ban has since been enacted; I said a while back on the mailing list that I preferred to handle this request by motion to broaden that ban, and I haven't seen much since to convince me that isn't still the best solution. (Whether the mechanics of it are "decline in favor of a motion" or "accept and then dismiss by motion", I don't really care.) I do not think we should be having a private case about alleged COI and various off-wiki matters, and I equally do not think the substance of the alleged POV-pushing would warrant a case without the off-wiki stuff. What remains is the scope of the broader ban - perhaps someone has a suggestion more specific than "BLPs". Maybe "British politics", structured similarly to the American politics restrictions? Opabinia regalis (talk) 06:55, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

Advanced permissions of Andrevan

Initiated by Beeblebrox (talk) at 23:58, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

Involved parties

• Beeblebrox (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA), filing party
• Andrevan (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request

• [16]

Confirmation that other steps in dispute resolution have been tried

• User:Andrevan/Archive50, the last ten sections or so
• [17] Alex Shih explicitly asking them to hand in ‘crat flag
• [18] me asking them the same

Statement by Beeblebrox

I’d really rather not do this, but I’m afraid I feel it is necessary for the good of the project. Andrevan is an “old school” admin and bureaucrat, having acquired those rights 13 and 10 years ago respectively. As far as I can personally recall, I first encountered them last year, when they modified a block of mine for no good reason, and I had to resort to an ANI thread to get the settings put back where I had them originally. [19] (They have made a number of blocks since then but at the time this was their first use of the block tool in 3 years, and there was a clear consensus against it upon review)

Their attitude, then, now, and seemingly going forward is that they know they are from the “cowboy admin” days and they are fine with retaining an attitude of shooting first and asking questions later. This is not an acceptable quality for a user with this level of advanced permisssions. Just last week they were topic banned via AE and then almost immediately blocked for violating said ban. Afterwards, as seems to also be part of their pattern, they posted an “unpology” on their talk page and apparently will not allow further discussion of the matter there.

I therefore suggest that when taken in total, this is conduct unbecoming and at the very least Andrevan should be removed as a bureaucrat. As can be seen in the above diffs, they were asked twice to do so voluntarily but have refused. The committee may also wish to consider whether they are fit to be an administrator as well.

To be clear, this request is not based on abuse of ‘crat tools, but rather on poor behavior in general, and misuse of admin tools, specifically in the field of blocking and unblocking, further evidence of this will be presented should the case be accepted, but just as a recent example, see [20]. They blocked an IP indefinitely and only changed the settings after it was explained to them (after 13 years as an admin) that we don’t do that except in the very most extreme cases, as opposed to as a response to three run-of-the-mill vandal edits. Beeblebrox (talk) 23:58, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

The reply below seems to me further evidence that Andrevan really doesn’t get it. This is not about the specific incidents, but rather, taken as a whole, they add up to someone who reflects poorly on the ‘crat and admin corps, and justifies this by saying “that’s the way we did back when admins were REAL admins.” Their “plea of temporary insanity” on their talk also humblebrags about how they are smarter than everyone else. These are not attitudes I want to see in a ‘crat, we expect them to be reserved and careful above all else. And it is not personal, I don’t know what the “unfounded sour grapes” nonsense refers to, I’m not bitter about his unjustified actions being overturned by another admin, why would I be? Beeblebrox (talk) 02:13, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

I’d like to clarify again in light of some of the comments below that this is not just about the recent topic ban and block related to it. That is certainly in the mix, but is only the latest issue in what I believe I can establish as a pattern of poor judgement. I haven’t presented every shred of available evidence in the request because that’s just not how this works, if the case is accepted more evidence will of course be presented. Also, regarding named parties, I didn’t want to speak for anyone by adding them here, a lot of people particpated in the recent discussion. Everyone is free to comment and to present evidence should the case be accepted, but if anyone feels strongly that they should be added as a party I certainly don’t have a problem with that. Beeblebrox (talk) 18:44, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

@Worm That Turned: I get what you’re saying, but I’m probably already in danger of going over my word count. It’s been a while since I was on the other side of this coin, but I figured bombing you all with evidence was what the evidence phase was for and at this point what is looked for is just enough to convince that looking further is something the committee should be doing. I presented the recent debacle, another recent error in basic rules of blocking, and a slightly older one, but a search at noticeboards and/or Andrevan’s own talk page easily produces more that may be relevant. I’m busy most of the rest of today but I could possibly whip up a subpage somewhere detailing other instances if that is desired. Beeblebrox (talk) 23:12, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

• Andrevan is kind of freaking out on me. Had to shut him down on my talk page, now I see he is asking for a boomerang here because I refuse to withdraw the request. Could somebody please ask him to calm down and give me the time I asked for? Beeblebrox (talk) 02:32, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Ok, I’m super tired, but here you go:a few more incidents and a lot more analysis. Beeblebrox (talk) 10:36, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

If all that combined with this [21] reply doesn’t convince you that there si a problem here worth investigating I don’t suppose anything will. How they could claim that every single one of their obvious errors is simply “admin discretion” at this late date is beyond me. WP:IDHT is a very poor quality in an advanced permission holder. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:46, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

 Clerk assistance requested: see talk page. Beeblebrox (talk) 20:18, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Andrevan

This filing is without merit. I have already been sanctioned. I edited the article I was banned from for a period of a week in my entire editing history, and I have no problem with complying with the topic ban. The topic ban is the remedy, and it has already been applied. Beeblebrox's diffs do not show misuse of admin tools or violation of policy.

Blocking a vandal-only IP address, or changing block settings aggressively on a spam/COI account, are within normal admin discretion, so long as I am willing to discuss. I always am, I always respond promptly. I have sporadic patterns of editing and I don't always log in for minor stuff, but I never leave a response hanging.

My actions as a blocking admin were clearly in good faith and, where there were errors, they were minor errors that were corrected when they were pointed out. One or two occasions that Beeblebrox doesn't agree with, do not constitute conduct unbecoming or a pattern of abuse of power. I always communicated and was open to discussion or correction when necessary. Per Beeblebrox, "I don't agree with it I but I suppose it falls within the realm of admin discretion." Ponyo and Floquenbeam concurred that I did not violate WP:WHEEL because I was simply making the block settings stronger and not reverting. Further, Beeblebrox did not "have to resort to an ANI thread," the entire discussion was that thread, which existed before my action, and I replied to it.

Regarding the topic ban, I regret my original posts which many people pointed out were not appropriate. This topic is clearly an area where I cannot edit unemotionally. This is my first time being blocked or banned in any way. Not that I deserve special treatment because I am a long-time admin, but because Wikipedia justice is intended to be protective and not punitive. I made a wrong comment, I didn't abuse my powers.

I believe that this filing by Beeblebrox lacks in good faith or recognition of my many positive actions and activities here. It is telling that Beeblebrox believes that my bureaucrat permission should be removed, yet he cites no examples of use of bureaucrat tools.

Beeblebrox says this is not about specific incidents, but about everything "taken as a whole." Yet he does not build a case or substantiate his claims that I am a "cowboy admin" or that I have violated norms, consensus, or policy. He asked me to resign, and I said no, so now we are here. That's not what this page is for, or how things work. The whole is the sum of its parts, and insufficient parts have been provided to assemble anything.

Give the topic ban a chance to work, as it has just been applied and I have agreed to abide by it. There is no long term issue to speak of, and diffs have not been provided of such. This case request should be dismissed. Andrevan@ 07:19, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

User:Beeblebrox's diffs show acceptable admin discretion and they show me being willing to discuss and to change according to community feedback. They are also very stale, and unrelated to the topic ban situation, which I regret and apologize for, and plan to abide by and stay away from. Andrevan@ 18:05, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

:User:Beeblebrox is casting WP:ASPERSIONs and should be sanctioned. There is no evidence of misuse of admin tools. Andrevan@ 00:45, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Clarifying further per Beeblebrox's reply above. Happy to delve more deeply into the examples, but I stand by the discussion comments I made at that time. Discretion sometimes means having to answer for calls being made. Strong opinions, weakly held, as a rule, doesn't mean I can't admit I am wrong or that I should reverse myself because of community feedback or scrutiny. I will maintain that a) my unblock of Riceissa, as requested by an email from a user, was bold and I should have consulted with the blocking admin or found the original community ban (which I didn't realize existed), but I didn't see any example of Riceissa violating any policies or advocacy POV pushing, and the diffs weren't in the block b) my promotion of Northamerica1000 should have been relatively uncontroversial, even though I supported, per WP:NBD and the fact that our WP:INVOLVED policy allows for relatively uncontroversial actions that any uninvolved user would take. The community made its issues with these decisions clear. By defending myself I wasn't saying the community was wrong -- in fact, you will see that I always say that I am happy to revert or reverse an action per WP:BRD -- but just that it is a valid use of discretion. Discretion means sometimes I will make calls that people don't agree with, and I am happy to discuss and solve those disagreements in a productive way. I would argue that this is exactly what we expect bureaucrats and admins to do. So I'm not saying these small errors from the past aren't errors. I am saying that they don't show a pattern of misuse of tools or "cowboying" or consistent "temporary insanity." Nobody can make perfect calls all the time. I also have plenty of examples in my editing history of making good, uncontroversial calls or properly invoking WP:IAR to solve problems. Sorry for going over the word count. Andrevan@ 19:58, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Winkelvi

There's a ton of evidence that supports Beeblebrox's spot-on concerns, I'm not going to list all of it here, rather, I will just link to the AN/I I filed about Andrevan several days ago. [22] There have been several incidents involving him where he's raised eyebrows including this at Jimbo's talk page [23] and a note he left at another editor's talk page where it appears he is asking them to proxy edit for him to carry on his "mission" after being topic banned [24]. All that noted, suffice it to say that if Andrevan were involved in anything serious administrator- or bureaucrat-wise where I was concerned, I wouldn't trust him to do the right, fair, or policy-based thing. At all. I've never seen a better case for someone turning in their advanced permissions/tools. -- ψλ ● ✉ ✓ 02:06, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

Well, reading Guy Macon's comment below, I'm wondering if I would be considered involved and if I should have commented at all. I'm new at commenting here, so any direction would be appreciated. -- ψλ ● ✉ ✓ 04:08, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Aquillion

Here is the discussion from the incident in 2017 that Beeblebrox mentioned. Skimming it, the general consensus at the time was that Andrevan made the wrong call, but not indefensibly so, and that it made little difference either way; he also (as far as I can tell) responded appropriately when corrected. Obviously some of Andrevan's recent behavior on ANI and talk pages has been inappropriate, and whether those actions as an editor are enough to reconsider his permissions is up to the committee to decide, but at the very least based on the two examples presented I don't think that his actions with his admin tools rise to the level where they're worth considering. --Aquillion (talk) 02:15, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Guy Macon

Before I comment, I would like to ask, should I be listed as a party in this case? It sort of feels like I should, but I would like to have one of the arbitrators decide. I wouldn't want a repeat of the past, where Arbcom attempted to sanction me (and then relented when pretty much everyone complained) without me being notified, any evidence being presented against me and with me being given no chance to respond -- all things that a party to the case would have received. --Guy Macon (talk) 03:54, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

For those interested in the details, see Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard/Archive 35#I believe that I am owed an apology., but I would advise not dragging out old disputes. I am over it, other than having a perfectly understandable fear of commenting on any Abcom case. --Guy Macon (talk) 05:24, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

While I do appreciate Newyorkbrad's comment ("In response to some of the comments, please note that editors are not sanctioned for commenting on an arbitration request or case (unless perhaps the edits are so seriously disruptive that they wouldn't be permitted on any page). Both "involved" and uninvolved editors may comment; what is important is relevant information and thoughtful analysis.") The fact remains that Opabinia regalis attempted to sanction me for commenting on an arbitration request[25] and I have no reason to believe that it will not happen again.

Because I do not believe that the issues I raised at Wikipedia talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Michael Hardy/Proposed decision#Guy Macon's section have ever been resolved, I am withdrawing from this case and unwatching this page and I advise anyone else who is contempating whether they should participate to seriously consider the possibility that the same thing may happen to them. --Guy Macon (talk) 16:49, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Ajraddatz

I don't think I've ever commented here before, but it's also pretty rare to see a bureaucrat dragged before ArbCom. I have two thoughts on this case:

First on the case: I'm always a believer that people who hold advanced permissions should be able to hold whatever beliefs they want, so long as they use their advanced access in accordance with community expectations. I have not seen any misuse of sysop or crat tools here. But there is certainly some behaviour that goes against the expectations of an admin/crat, and in the interests of being responsive to community concerns about holders of advanced permissions it might be worth accepting this case.

Second on decorum: Could we, as a community, agree to stop telling advanced permissions holders to resign as a measure of seeming first resort? What a toxic culture to operate in, where literally any mistake or even disagreement is met with messages telling the person to resign, and where statements encouraging resignation are paraded around on requests like this. We're all volunteers here, and we all are trying to work towards the best ends for the project. -- Ajraddatz (talk) 05:35, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

Statement by MONGO

I would likely be a named party to this case for if it is accepted surely an issue I brought up regarding a violation of outing by Andrevan (with now suppressed external links) would come up[26]. I've been editing here for a long time and I have never seen a, shall we say, fall from grace, that was so rapid [27]. It appeared to me that the possibility of a compromised account, or one that was sold or something worse on a personal level could explain some of the erratic behavior [28]. Crats and admins are expected to not abuse their rights and to not abuse the power their rights inherently convey. Andrevan's conspiracy theories about paid Russian, Trump organization or other nefarious editors who were holding the articles related to Donald Trump hostage (by allegedly suppressing negative information) and his outing attempt was what led to the topic ban. The subsequent activities dancing around that topic ban led to a near immediate block for 24 hours. He has subsequently been tampering around with the DS tag for the very topic ban he was given, under the pretense of making sure the wording is 100% accurate to avoid confusion[29]. A half dozen administrators have gently been offering Andrevan guidance and even support but he seems to lack a great sense of self awareness about all this and he has yet to offer any apology to any editor he, as an administrator, wrongly accused without a shred of proof of being paid operatives/editors. Lastly, Andrevan uses the tools themselves so infrequently I wonder why he would even wish to retain them at this point. Diffs can be given at evidence should the need arise.--MONGO 13:42, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

Diffs:

At Talk:Donald Trump:

• "It seems to me that discussion of this topic is driven by partisans who, through tendentious editing, protect this article from factual truths."

At Wikipedia:Village pump (idea lab):

• "My concern is that actual Russian agents are attempting to infiltrate Wikipedia and are pushing POVs on many topics"

At Admin Noticeboard:

• "A number of right-wing POV pushing users are engaged in tendentious editing to maintain a whitewashed status quo version of the article" and later "I suspect at least some of these users to be paid Russian/GOP/NRA advocacy agents -- Trump World PR reps. Others may simply be partisans."
• "We also know Russians were paying social media users on Reddit, Facebook, and other places"

Borderline harassment of a suspected editing foe over their choice of username:

• at Factcheckeratyourservice's talk (FCAYS for short)

and Andrevan later states at Admin Noticeboard:

• ..."Wikipedia is under attack by Russian/GOP agents and partisans. FCAYS is probably one of them, and I would not assume that just because there is a lengthy history going back years that the user cannot also be a paid editor. We know that the Russians spent time building profiles and activating them later"
• "Please see Jytdog's recent comment at which supports the idea of FCAYS being a Russian agent, as well as the timing and connection to Sarah Palin..."

Potential threat to OUT an editor:

• "Simply because I have not WP:OUTed MONGO in a way that would violate his privacy does not mean there is no evidence."

Clearly shows he knows the policy about OUTING:

• "does your response indicate that you know about something I might OUT? I believe the recommended way to handle sensitive COIs is to do via private email between privileged users with oversight/checkuser/ArbCom etc."

Suppressed edits at Usertalk:NeilN show he did violated OUTING after he had demonstrated he understood the policy above.

Inability to AGF of another suspected editing foe:

• "I am guessing you are a right wing American politics editor and supporter of blocked user who I warned about the username policy just now."

Statement by Mandruss

I don't know much, but I know that an admin (and a bureaucrat, whatever that is) should be expected to observe Wikipedia's most fundamental behavior principles, including the one about not making claims against other editors without evidence. Andrevan's embarrassing recent spectacle at WP:AN showed a blatant disregard for that principle. This was two hours after I pointed it out to Andrevan on a user talk page, which should not have been necessary, and he persisted for some time after having it pointed out again multiple times in the AN discussion.

Add to that a scattered assortment of less dramatic things, such as stating in article talk that my content argument was "not policy-based"[30]—when my argument was clearly a WEIGHT argument and I even cited WP:WEIGHT explicitly.[31] WTF? This is what I would expect from an editor with a few months of experience, not an admin and crat. Yes, Andrevan was acting as an editor, so this was not an abuse of the advanced permissions, but shouldn't admins and crats be required to be good editors first? That would make a lot of sense to me.

I feel that those with the admin bit should be expected to understand these things and to be exemplars of them, and my understanding is that the standard is even higher for bureaucrats (whatever that is). I'm fairly confident that such behavior would result in a near-SNOW fail at RfA today, and rightly so. The question becomes: Do we grandfather the expectations for admins and crats to this degree? ―Mandruss ☎ 13:49, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

Statement by John Cline

I think Beeblebrox should withdraw this unsupportable request. Demonstrating the community's inability to resolve issues with Andrevan's conduct is a critical wp:before element and such inability has not been remotely shown. The contrary, on the other hand, that Andrevan is responsive to the community, proactive in allaying her emergent concerns, and willingly subordinate to her collective will is evident in the given diffs. Aside this missing requisite, no abuse is shown that relates to Andrevan's advanced permissions (as an administrator or a bureaucrat). If the request is not withdrawn, I believe the committee should speedily close the request with prejudice; sanctioning Beeblebrox against any future Arbcom filings for at least 6 months. I am sorry to say that I see this request as almost being a frivolous filing; it is certainly, at best, a good faith lapse of judgement and policy clue.--John Cline (talk) 14:24, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

• Thank you Kudpung for commenting on my apparent misuse of the feminine pronoun. Although I'd intended for it to correspond with Wikipedia, not Andrevan, I apologize for the confusion it spawned.--John Cline (talk) 03:24, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Statement by DarthBotto

I provided uninvolved input with both the AN/I reports, so I feel as though I should weigh in. Simply put, Andrevan's behavior was appalling, unbecoming of an entrusted (and veteran) administrator and frankly, I was almost convinced that their account was compromised. However, I do believe that everyone is entitled to a bad day- sometimes a bad week- and that their behavior was just shy of needing their exceptional privileges revoked. As Andrevan has confirmed that they were out of line and promised not to do it again, I am in favor of giving them one more chance. However, that comes with the caveat that if they put one toe out of line, they should absolutely be finished with their admin tools; do not pass GO, do not collect $200. DARTHBOTTO _talk•cont 17:07, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Calidum

I hope that if Arbcom takes this case it examines tendentious editing by others of late (including at least one other editor above) in this latest round of discourse over articles related to American politics. To hold only one side accountable is unacceptable. Calidum 18:21, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Swarm

The recent debacle with Andrevan has been unfortunate, and Andrevan is guilty of conduct unbecoming an administrator and 'crat. However, that has been handled by the community via discretionary sanctions already, and Andrevan has responded appropriately, so based on that alone, there was no pressing need for an ArbCom followup. The case presented against Andrevan here comes across, to me, as overstated, as nothing except the recent incidents have been reported as evidence, not only by the OP, but by the two involved users as well. I urge the accusers here to actually provide some examples of this alleged previous misconduct. It's a little strange to say we can't see any more of the evidence yet when a desysop is on the table.

Statement by JFG

When he emerged from his multi-month break, Andrevan focused vehemently on perceived imbalance, POV-pushing and conspiracy theories about "paid Russian/GOP/NRA trolls" at Donald Trump and related articles. He was politely made aware of process, decorum and specific editing restrictions, by multiple editors and admins familiar with this territory. Nevertheless he persisted, falling deeper into an I-must-save-the-world delusion. Such behavior could have been expected of a very aggressive newbie, and many editors were astonished to discover that Andrevan was a veteran admin and bureaucrat. I have seen some temperamental admins but this was off the charts. Some editors including myself worried that either Andrevan's account had been taken over by a cunning warrior, or that he was going through a mental breakdown. The notorious Kingshowman came to mind, but thankfully Andrevan proved a lot more articulate with language compared to the utterances of this perennial doomsayer. I have no opinion whether any further remedies than the TBAN should be enacted, however I am confident that if some J. Random Editor had stirred but one tenth of the drama raised by Andrevan in this epic week, they would have been indeffed with a collective sigh of relief. At the very least ArbCom should hear the case and give Andrevan a chance to redeem himself. — JFG ^talk 00:52, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Kudpung

First off, I would like to point out that Andrevan is male, (@John Cline:).
Advanced rights are accorded as much on trust for good judgement and appropriate editing as on the use of tools. Isolated incidents concerning users are often easy to deal with, but there sometimes comes a time when a pattern emerges that cannot be ignored and may need to be be examined. Having fully researched these issues, and on the assumption that further evidence can and will be presented on the evidence page, I am strongly of the opinion that whatever the outcome, the Committee should accept the case. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 00:55, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

(@John Cline:), I apologise for my missing the point of your syntax.
@Andrevan:. Please consider confining your comments regarding this case to these case pages. My comment above is worded neutrally enough until the Committee accepts (or declines the case). I do not discuss open Arbcom cases on my talk page so please don't expect a reply there. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 02:28, 6 June 2018 (UTC).

@TParis:, In my opinion, as stated above, bureaucrats and admins are elected as much on a basis of trust, maturity, expression, and judgement as on the use of tools. I believe therefore that there is sufficient reason at least for a case to be accepted and examined. It's then up to the Committee to decide how they close it. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 03:02, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Statement by TParis

I've had run-ins with Andrevan in the past that I wasn't at all happy with and I found him to be combative. But, I am too. We eventually talked it out and I believe we've mostly put it behind us; unless I've just now opened an old wound. I've reviewed the evidence in this case and Andrevan's attitude in this area sucked. Pure and simple. But so do a lot of editors. It's a heated topic and some people fear their very livelihoods and freedoms are at stake. As a Libertarian, although I somewhat disagree to the extent of the issues, I still get it. His behavior and beliefs are not surprising for any ordinary editor and everyone can get overwhelmed. Those issues were discussed and sorted.

Which brings us to this AR. I don't mean to ruffle Beeb's feathers, but as I've laid out in my own recall conditions, I believe that removal of advanced rights should be based on misuse of those rights or violations of policies related to those rights. At this time, I believe that Andrevan has fulfilled his obligations under WP:ADMINACCT. He doesn't have to agree with his vocal opposition to have fulfilled it. And with no violation of any of the tools, and no violations of policies, I believe that this case is meritless. I understand Beeb's frustrations, and Andrevan hopefully is taking them to heart, but there isn't a case here that I can see.

@Kudpung: I hear what you're saying about trust, but it's a subjective measure. We don't have a matrix that we can use to determine whether it exists and the vocal opposition generally gets more attention toward their distrust than the silent majority when we base these issues on trust. That's one of the key issues that just drove me mad about Salvidrim's Arb case. If we're going to be objective about it, we need to look at our policies and determine if there was a violation. I don't think there is and I don't think an Arbcase will find one.

So, I believe what is really being asked for here is an open forum for editors to voice their opinions about their lack of trust toward Andrevan with the idea that Arbcom will remove the tools. The problem with that approach is that people don't generally keep an eye on Arb cases unless they feel there is a problem. So this forum attracts more opposition than it does support and the result of an open forum in this venue will always be skewed against a subject.

That's why, I believe, we need to keep it objective. And objectively, no advanced permissions policies have been violated that I've seen. The rest was already dealt with, as it should be. Arbcom is for cases that cannot be solved by the community; this one has.--v/r - TP 13:56, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Statement by WBG

What TParis and Swarm has said.There's no evidence of tool-abuse.

It's clear cut that Andrevan's behavior in APOL, over the week was grossly poor and a TBan was rightly deserved.But, now that he seems to have agreed about his lapses, I don't support a desysop/debureaucratisation, at all.

In all likelihood, a bad week.Or so I expect.....

Statement by Fram

Since many editors are opposing this case based on the lack of evidence of misuse of admin tools, I decided to take a look at this. His hundred latest logged uses (so not things like editing through protection, if such ever happened) include, from most recent to oldest:

• blocking IP 101.103.154.182 indefinitely: clearly an incorrect use of admin tools. After protest, he changed it to three months, which is still excessive for an IP who edited one article 4 times in a few minutes, and nothing else.
• 01:07, 2 May 2017 (yes, a year ago, but only 9 log entries down in his admin log if you ignore self-serving actions): "Andrevan (talk | contribs | block) unblocked Riceissa (talk | contribs) (Challenge block reason: review contributions. User is promoting what exactly, malaria?)" The editor was blocked indef by MER-C, and 1 hour after Andrevan's unblock wsa again blocked indef by Drmies[32]. This was discussed at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive288#Vipul's paid editing enterprise, again. Clear abuse of admin tools.
• Three actions further down, and we are in 2014(!): "07:45, 22 November 2014 Andrevan (talk | contribs | block) changed group membership for Northamerica1000 from autopatrolled, file mover, mass message sender, pending changes reviewer, rollbacker and template editor to mass message sender, pending changes reviewer and administrator (successful RFA Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/Northamerica1000 2)" Oops, abuse of the bureaucrat tools, as they had voted in that RfA. In the discussion about that action[33], Andrevan claimed "I strongly disagree that it reflects in any way on NA1000's admin status. I am not INVOLVED, I knew nothing about the user before the RFA, and my support comment reflects that in invoking NBD and AGF. Andrevan@ 22:22, 22 November 2014 (UTC)" and other rather silly similar stuff. He only undid his action after another bureaucrat promised to immediately reclose the promotion with the same result.

Basically, in his last 15 or so admin / bureaucrat actions (stretching back three 1/2 years, and excluding maintenance of his own userspace), he made at least three egregious errors, and each time failed to recognise the problems with his action. I think we can live without an admin who makes very, very little admin actions, but when he does to often makes serious errors and stands by them after they have been pointed out again and again. Fram (talk) 08:50, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Cas Liber

Yeah...based on Fram's additional evidence, tool use needs to be reviewed via a case or whatever systematic scrutiny you want to do. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 09:45, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Ammarpad

I was initially leaning towards discouraging the Committee from accepting this case due to insufficient evidence that warrants further looking and the fact that the latest problem has been handled already by sanction.

However, I am greatly perturbed by this RfA incident, brought up by Fram. It was very poor decision by Andrevan and his comments there only reinforced why his judgement is way below of what is generally expected from ordinary NAC closer, not talk of Administrator... talkless of Bureaucrat.

It is imperative to note that the linked incident occured 3 years ago or thereabout, but the recent events, that led to his topic ban further show, he still lacks the necessary restraint and behavior expected from advanced permissions holders. More recent misreading of RfA like this, just refreshed the 2014 incident and corroborates the obvious sentiment that their judgment is impaired.

I don't mean to suggests Bureaucrats should behave like robots, but I believe any bureaucrat that behaved wildly such that it even led to Topic bans and subsequently blocked for violation, should not retain access to bureaucrat tool.

Therefore, since acceptance of case doesn't necessarily means issuance of remedy, I urge the Committee to accept this case.

Statement by Jehochman

I recommend accepting this case because either (1) some action is needed, or (2) the accusations should be cleared up to remove the shadow from this functionary. When accusations involve misuse of tools and there is actual misuse, though possibly minor or excusable, it is necessary to dig into the history to ensure that there isn't a bad pattern. Moreover, there is an accusation involving private evidence, which can only be resolved by ArbCom. I don't care that the original statement didn't include the private evidence; it's come up and should be dealt with now. Jehochman ^Talk 13:36, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Alanscottwalker

It looks like it's all out there (even the nature of the "oversighted" thing is known on the project), so perhaps think of disposing by motion, instead of a case - just so as to not drag it out more. Move to A) Remove bu. flag; B) remove adm. flag; C) admonish; D) warn; E) trout, and just let whichever of those get the majority of the ctte. pass and be done. Alanscottwalker (talk) 17:32, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Lepricavark

I understand why some might be reluctant to consider evidence from as far back as 2014, but I believe it is merited in this case. Andrevan uses the tools very rarely and the committee should review evidence that shows that these rare uses of the tools are often flawed. I also find this comment by Andrevan to be disconcerting. Lepricavark (talk) 18:53, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Davey2010

I'll admit since this was created I've been undecided but I feel Arbcom should accept this case - The diffs presented by Fram are rather concerning,
Their comment in this very thread is the final nail for me - We all have different opinions and we all become frustrated here but the comments this admin's been making over the past few weeks are again problematic and IMHO unbecomming of any admin let alone a crat, . It warrants looking at. –Davey2010^Talk 20:18, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Factchecker_atyourservice

I would just like to say that Andrevan's accusations stating outright I was "probably" a Russian operative—documented by MONGO above—were not merely unfounded, they were insultingly wrong. As I previously pointed out at my AE topic ban case, I actually attended a summer program at West Point while I was in high school. My roommate in the cadet barracks, despite being admitted to Princeton, ended up going back to West Point and Ranger School, became an infantry captain serving in Iraq, and was the subject of an in-depth feature in Newsweek magazine, pictured on the cover with his unit. I still have a battered original copy of the print magazine as well as a handwritten letter that he sent me. My American-ness level is not over 9000, but it is quite high.

It was troubling to think a person who voiced such an insane theory, and who made vague outing threats about somebody else, might go trying to CheckUser somebody in order to obtain "proof" of their nefarious activities—and get the request rubber-stamped because of apparent sysop/bureaucrat authority. Who knows what a person with such poor judgment might do with personally identifying information about a user whom they suspect of being a Russian spy? Factchecker_atyourservice 02:03, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

Statement by {Non-party}

Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should address why or why not the Committee should accept the case request or provide additional information.

Advanced permissions of Andrevan: Clerk notes

This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

Advanced permissions of Andrevan: Arbitrators' opinion on hearing this matter <4/1/1>

Vote key: (Accept/decline/recuse)

• Generally, when looking at cases where administrative tools (and indeed 'crat tools) are requested to be removed, I have a lower bar as ArbCom is the only place that can remove them. When evaluating a case request, I look for certain things - a pattern of mild abuse of the tools, egregious and clear cut misuse of the tools, evidence that the user's judgement is impaired or that they have lost the trust of the community. I'm leaning decline at the moment, as I don't see the patterns or significant history of these behaviours - I see actions as an editor which have lead to sanctions as an editor, and a fairly normal level of reaction to the sanctions. To those who would have us accept a case, can you show that we have reached the last resort? Is the topic ban and block not sufficient? I would expect that if he carried on, or kept demonstrating the same behaviours to see a case here, but it currently feels a little early. Worm^TT(talk) 07:37, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

  I've looked at the suppressed edit, and combined with Andrevan's response, I'm still leaning decline as I believe a topic ban and block is sufficient consequence for the actions, especially given Andrevan's admittance to error. However, @Beeblebrox:, I'm curious to this pattern that you believe you can show. Are we talking about repeated behaviours after having matters discuss? General poor choices - especially ones that can't be resolved with AGF? I'm not expecting you to throw out a shed load of evidence, but at the moment, aside from the "temporary insanity", you've pointed to one incident of debatable poor judgement and complained of him being a "cowboy admin". Well, Wikipedia has long been based up on the idea that we're not a bureaucracy, IAR is basic principle. I'm going to need to see something more. Worm^TT(talk) 19:43, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

  @Beeblebrox: thank you very much for putting the effort in to do that. I do understand your concerns, and Andrevan, I want you to understand they are not without basis and absolutely not aspersions. There are already 4 arbitrators who have decided we should be looking further into a case. I'm going to land at decline, but weakly. A topic ban has been imposed, and a block made - that should be sufficient for the editor level behaviour. Many of the other issues are either stale or within admin discretion. At the moment, I'm not seeing a case is needed - but I do think we are close to needing one Worm^TT(talk) 15:21, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

• Prior to my question to Andrevan, I think the only time I have ever interacted with the editor was this recent occasion ([34]) where I expressed disagreement over their comment. If anyone think these are grounds for recusal, I will be more than happy to do so. A brief comment about the statements so far: I am not sure if I was "explicitly" asking Andrevan to hand in their bureaucrat flag, my intention was to make a personal suggestion based on the matter of principle. I agree with Ajraddatz that editors with advanced permissions should continue to hold whatever beliefs they have, but I think it's counterintuitive to have them expressing explicit political beliefs on multiple occasions over several days, while making allegations and some inappropriate comments in highly visible noticeboards and other areas, and at the very same time expecting them to continue to put themselves in a position to assess difficult consensus like a close RfA decision. I have no opinions about the merit of this case request. Alex Shih (talk) 08:47, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
  • Recuse. Alex Shih (talk) 15:09, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
• Accept based primarily on private evidence involving suppressed edits. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 13:06, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
  • I am very disinterested in reviewing administrative actions from 2014, even if they were egregious. Such issues would have needed to been raised at the time they occurred, not four years later. I'm interested in a case with the scope of "Andrevan's recent activity in the American politics topic area". This would include recent accusations against other editors related to the topic area as well as the aforementioned suppressed edits, the latter of which would be reviewed privately. ~ Rob₁₃^Talk 12:47, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
• Awaiting further statements. In response to some of the comments, please note that editors are not sanctioned for commenting on an arbitration request or case (unless perhaps the edits are so seriously disruptive that they wouldn't be permitted on any page). Both "involved" and uninvolved editors may comment; what is important is relevant information and thoughtful analysis. Newyorkbrad (talk) 13:15, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
• Accept based on same evidence noted above by BU Rob. RickinBaltimore (talk) 13:29, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
• Accept based on the same grounds. This needs to be cleared up. Doug Weller talk 16:43, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
• Accept primarily on the basis of accusations about other editors. DGG ( talk ) 02:22, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
• Haven't come to a conclusion on this one yet. The Trump-related behavior was not good, and went on for an awfully long time to be ascribed to "temporary insanity". Likewise, although it's understandable and probably unavoidable to be stressed by an arbcom case, the posts on Beeblebrox's talk page are really unhelpful. That being said, the case does seem a little thin to me. (Maybe the best idea is to just wait for more from Beeblebrox, or others who have examples on hand - no need for anything long enough to require a subpage.) So far the accept votes seem to be based on points quite different from those raised in the request itself, which I'm not sure how to interpret. Opabinia regalis (talk) 07:51, 6 June 2018 (UTC)