Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement: Difference between revisions

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Could we stop with this nonsense now? There is nothing controversial in articles about [[Mart Laar]] and [[Constitution of Estonia]] - this can easily be seen from the fact that there are not even unreliable sources claiming any controversies. This is just an attempt to silence or drive Martin away from Wikipedia. Martin has agreed to stay away from further attempts to defuse issues peacefully, I recommend an official ArbCom warning for both TFD and Petri Krohn (perhaps an interaction ban - or ban from ArbCom and AN/I pages?) for repeated attempts to misuse arbitration enforcement to resolve personal and content issues. --[[User:Sander_S%C3%A4de|<span style="font-family:Courier; color:#555">Sander&nbsp;Säde</span>]] 21:18, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
Could we stop with this nonsense now? There is nothing controversial in articles about [[Mart Laar]] and [[Constitution of Estonia]] - this can easily be seen from the fact that there are not even unreliable sources claiming any controversies. This is just an attempt to silence or drive Martin away from Wikipedia. Martin has agreed to stay away from further attempts to defuse issues peacefully, I recommend an official ArbCom warning for both TFD and Petri Krohn (perhaps an interaction ban - or ban from ArbCom and AN/I pages?) for repeated attempts to misuse arbitration enforcement to resolve personal and content issues. --[[User:Sander_S%C3%A4de|<span style="font-family:Courier; color:#555">Sander&nbsp;Säde</span>]] 21:18, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
:Re to AGK. I suggest to quote accurately this [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Amendment&oldid=382904043#Alternative_motion Arbcom motion]. It tells that Martintg "is topic banned from articles ''about'' national, cultural, or ethnic disputes...". This article is ''about'' constitution. Of course any political or historical subject is ''related'' to numerous conflicts (consider US constitution, for example). Such an extended interpretation would prohibit Martintg from editing ''any'' historic/political subjects in Eastern Europe. If that was Arbocom intention, this should be explained to Martintg and other users who have similar sanctions.[[User:Biophys|Biophys]] ([[User talk:Biophys|talk]]) 22:08, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
:Re to AGK. I suggest to quote accurately this [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Amendment&oldid=382904043#Alternative_motion Arbcom motion]. It tells that Martintg "is topic banned from articles ''about'' national, cultural, or ethnic disputes...". This article is ''about'' constitution. Of course any political or historical subject is ''related'' to numerous conflicts (consider US constitution, for example). Such an extended interpretation would prohibit Martintg from editing ''any'' historic/political subjects in Eastern Europe. If that was Arbcom intention, this should be explained to Martintg and other users who have similar sanctions.[[User:Biophys|Biophys]] ([[User talk:Biophys|talk]]) 22:08, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
::People, how about ''helping'' your colleague to resume productive editing, instead of looking for every excuse to report him to AE? This battleground must stop.[[User:Biophys|Biophys]] ([[User talk:Biophys|talk]]) 13:42, 2 November 2010 (UTC)


Rsp to AGK - no, there is nothing controversial about [[Mart Laar]] and [[Constitution of Estonia]], which can clearly be seen from lack of ''any'' kind of sources in Offliner's and Petri's claims, not to mention, solid, peer-reviewed sources in major scientific journals. The claim that Mart Laar's book was banned in Germany is simply an ''untruth''.
Rsp to AGK - no, there is nothing controversial about [[Mart Laar]] and [[Constitution of Estonia]], which can clearly be seen from lack of ''any'' kind of sources in Offliner's and Petri's claims, not to mention, solid, peer-reviewed sources in major scientific journals. The claim that Mart Laar's book was banned in Germany is simply an ''untruth''.

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    Iksus2009

    Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

    Request concerning Iksus2009

    User requesting enforcement
    Khodabandeh14 (talk) 09:30, 31 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Iksus2009 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
    Sanction or remedy that this user violated
    Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan_2#1]
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. [1]
    • Threatens to disbar an admin who had warned of his WP:NPA violation: [2]. Note the comments on the previous violation:"If anything, don’t look at the past, look at what Iran is right now: one of the most backward countries on Earth, living according to a dark-age ideology, abusing women’s rights, and electing a total clown as your president. Very little indeed. So, I guess, again, I do understand why it is so important to Iranians of today to try to put as much of their national pride on what happened in the past, a side effect of this being attempts to appropriate anything you can. But even if you look in the past, to be frank, there is not much to be proud of. Really. What did this ancient Persia do? Greeks kicked your ass, and you left to the world 0% of what the Greek philosophy and science have left. You claim to fame is to have been beaten by an Ancient great nation, and is such a very derivative notion. It is like saying, “Hey, look, I am an accomplished person too, because Brad Pitt slapped me in the face pretty bad 20 years ago.” " and "Move on, and don’t try to steal other people’s achievements". These comments violate WP:NPA, WP:CIVIL, WP:ATTACK and WP:BEP.
    • New comment also generalizes[3]

    users based on their background violating WP:NPA and WP:BEP. " It is a sign of clear Iranian bias to hide this fact." "I see that Persians have overrun this page". Also threatens to disbar an admin who had warned him is a serious violation.

    • More minor but still serious issue when it comes to Armenia/Azerbaijan topics, removing sources [4] without discussion in the talkpage.
    Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)
    1. [5] Warning by Nishkid64 (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
    Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    The user has obvisouly has come with a WP:BEP and WP:NPA approach. However, his 2009 comments were extremly xenphobic, which makes it impossible to work with in the article. The user should be topic banned from the article Nezami Ganjavi whose introduction has come through a many months worked concensus (which the user has been told in 2009 as well as the preamble of the article he is editing). His comments about "page being overran by Persians"[6] , "Iranian bias"[7] violates WP:BEP and WP:NPA. More seriously, threatening the admin who warned him about WP:NPA] with disbarment. With the addition of his severe WP:NPA, WP:BEP violats on the talk page, the user should be banned from the talkpage. Also a block for WP:NPA and threatening the admin who only warned of him WP:NPA with disbarment (which is an attempt at a psychological threat). Account could also be an SPA.

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
    [8]

    Discussion concerning Iksus2009

    I request a permanent ban. Here is part of the latest comments[9] after he got the warning. " So with this in mind, here is the promised political opinion: I hope the US and Israel bomb Iran sometime soon. Not because I hate Persians or Iran. I just think it would be good to bring some humility to Persian chauvinism, to talk some sense to them, to bring them up to date with the modern realities of the world (from being stuck in a time period three thousand years past),..." . And this too: " Since I am already going to be banned anyways (in an Iranian style censorship. Well, at least I will not be whipped ... I hope, or be issued a Fatwa against). ". This was just a portion of the latest comments. The user's acount is 1 years old and he has been warned multiple times today and last year. Do you really expect that such a user can be compromised with in the talkpage? Are other users supposed to forget all of his hatred and act like nothing happened and continue normal topics discussions that might arise? The user is asking to get banned as he states too and you predicted: "Ok, now you can go ahead and ban me. I plan not to use Wikipedia anyways. I think the Britannica subscription price is worth it, which I have realized thanks to this exchange. So thank you! As they say, you get what you pay for.", "I have no intent of wasting my time any more than I already have.".. etc. Well I think admins ca give him the oppurtunity of not wasting his time and the time of other users (for complaining to admins). It is really a waste of my time.


    If he is not permanently topic banned from such articles, then other places the user contribute, has already been poisened, and has created a WP:BATTLE atmosphere. For example, no one is going to talk calmly to another user who has called for a bombing of a country. There is a reason this sort of topic subjects have gone to two Arbitrations. I believe new measures are needed, where the first such comments, the user is blocked for a week and the second such comments, they are banned. In the case of this user, he was warned three times for the same type of comments, but got absolutely nothing except a light warning from admins (actually the first one was a serious warning but admins did not follow it up). This is a disaster in terms of admins weak policy, and some serious actions would perhaps reduce the number of users like this. Specially since such topics have come under two arbcomms, and admins need to get strict. Not follow one light warning with another with another. . Again, when a topic has gone through two arbcomms, it means admins need to be serious. Moreschi is surely missed, as he would have banned such users on the first incident. Not three light warnings in a row. --Khodabandeh14 (talk) 16:24, 1 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

    Just a reminder per discussions below: "Because this editor has very little history and the warning from Nishkid came last year, I felt it was more reasonable to give a clear and explicit warning that battleground behavior is not acceptable than to block immediately. However any repetition of this very aggressive behavior should lead to an immediate response. Looie496 (talk) 17:48, 31 October 2010 (UTC) "}}.

    I know admins have a lot on their plate, and they deal with so much nonsense everyday. However, they should act upon the previous warnings that were issued. Else violaters of the system might not take their warnings seriously. --Khodabandeh14 (talk) 17:15, 1 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]


    Statement by Iksus2009

    Comments by others about the request concerning Iksus2009

    Result concerning Iksus2009

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
    Because this editor has very little history and the warning from Nishkid came last year, I felt it was more reasonable to give a clear and explicit warning that battleground behavior is not acceptable than to block immediately. However any repetition of this very aggressive behavior should lead to an immediate response. Looie496 (talk) 17:48, 31 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • I have notified Iksus2009 of the AA discretionary sanctions. Since he hasn't continued to revert any articles, and the main problem is his intemperate and nationalistic rhetoric on talk pages, I suggest we close this with no further action. According to him (June 2009), Iran is "right now one of the most backward countries on earch, living according to a dark-age ideology, abusing women's rights, and electing a total clown as your president." At Talk:Nezami Ganjavi#Protected Status he has stated:

      My "fault" was that I was objecting to the clear Persian bias on display in the editorial board overseeing the Nizami page. I will pursue this issue to the end with Wikipedia until a balanced approach is reached. I think there has to be at least one ethnic Azeri present on the editorial board of this page.

      If he actually goes ahead and edits in accordance with a nationalist philosophy, a topic ban is one of the possible options. EdJohnston (talk) 16:16, 1 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • This comment by Iksus is precisely what we don't want to see. I am minded to not err on the side of leniency on this occasion, although I do understand why some are. AGK 21:39, 1 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm not minded to err on the side of leniency, I'm just minded not to poke an editor who has a good chance of disappearing if he isn't poked too much. Looie496 (talk) 22:14, 1 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    My understanding is that an individual admin may impose a topic ban on an editor from all AA articles "if, despite being warned, that editor repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behavior, or any normal editorial process." This could be done in the future without opening up a new enforcement request. The possibility of a topic ban may be held in reserve, even if the present request winds up closing without further action. If anyone thinks a block would be wise, can they specify a duration. EdJohnston (talk) 00:15, 2 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

    Martintg

    Request concerning Martintg

    User requesting enforcement
    User:The Four Deuces TFD (talk) 01:54, 31 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Martintg (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
    Sanction or remedy that this user violated
    Block. Topic ban.[10]

    User:Martintg is topic-banned from topics related to Eastern Europe. "Martintg (talk · contribs) is topic banned from articles about national, cultural, or ethnic disputes within Eastern Europe, their associated talk pages, and any process discussion about these topics...."[11] A request for clarification explained that this included "Communist terrorism". Although Martintg challenged whether this decision related to him, he abandoned it. A recent decision involving User:Marknutley shows that becoming involved in procedures involving other editors is the same as editing proscribed articles. Martintg has chosen to defend User:Justus Maximus who has been blocked for offensive comments about other editors at Communist terrorism. Therefore Martintg has violated his topic ban. TFD (talk) 01:54, 31 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

    I would ask the arbitrators to look at their recent decision considering mark nutley who has a CC topic ban: "I really don't know how much clearer the message can be to the topic-banned users: Please go away. If the discussion is on-wiki and even tangentially related to climate change, and is not directly discussing you, then leave it alone".[12] Martintg was topic-banned from "Communist terrorism", asked for clarification and then abandoned it.[13] TFD (talk) 03:35, 31 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

    Reply to Sandersaede, there was a request for clarification that decided this topic was part of Eastern Europe and Martintg raised then abandoned a request concerning whether it still applied. Martintg's definition of terrorism as including government actions allows for the inclusion of Soviet terror against other nationalities inside the former Soviet Union which were "national, cultural, or ethnic disputes within Eastern Europe". TFD (talk) 14:21, 31 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

    Reply to AGK, re: "Constitution of Estonia"

    From 1940 to 1990 the Soviet Union considered Estonia to be one of its republics, although the legality was disputed. Therefore the legitimate constitution during this period is a matter of dispute, which the article resolves by referring to the Third Constitution as de jure, although the Soviets considered the Soviet constitution to be de jure. TFD (talk) 22:34, 1 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

    Statement by Martintg

    I thought I was talking about Justus Maximus' unblock request for a block he received for comments he made on ANI, where he implied some editors were Marxist apologists who promoted terrorism, which is clearly offensive. He did remove those comments but was blocked in any case. I've been discussing JM's unblock for several days on ANI[14],[15],[16],[17], on his talk page[18], on an admin's page[19] and nobody (let alone The Four Deuces who was also involved in that discussion too) had any issue in regard to my involvement until now. I thought talking about issues of WP:BITE and how we treat newbies is sufficiently abstracted from any underlying content, in this case whether or not Karl Marx promoted terrorism . I would have participated just the same as if the original issue was related to Right-wing terrorism or Apple pies.

    FWIW, the original topic ban "topic banned from articles about Eastern Europe, their associated talk pages, and any process discussion about same, widely construed" was narrowed to topic banned from articles about national, cultural, or ethnic disputes within Eastern Europe, their associated talk pages, and any process discussion about these topics, until December 22, 2010 (one year from the closing of the original case) by motion, dropping "widely construed". Note that the Climate Change topic ban under which Mark Nutley was blocked incorporates the term "broadly construed". The importance of the presence of "broadly construed" in the remedy was higlighted in a clarification related to the original topic ban, most of the Arbitrators concurred with the viewpoint of Steve Smith when he stated: "But there is also a case that they are eastern Europe-related, in light of the "broadly construed" portion of the remedy". This "broadly construed" portion of my topic ban was removed when it was narrowed in September.

    I drafted a recent clarification request in good faith about whether the narrowed topic ban was still applicable to the article Communist terrorism[20], but soon abandoned it since it seemed to be a waste of the Committee's time (and mine) over something that I can easily avoid (and have avoided since) in deference to User:The Four Deuces (despite a couple of other editors welcoming my involvement[21][22]), since the issue would be moot anyway in a couple of months time as my topic ban will expire anyway. But construing my good faith discussion of a user's unblock request due to his block over comments on ANI in light of WP:BITE as a violation is stretching things a bit too far.

    So it is not clear to me how discussion of JM's unblock request, which was related to his block related to his use of phrases deemed offensive during a discussion on the ANI page, which in turn was due to his perception of some editors and his view of their conduct, which in turn was related to a discussion of whether or not Karl Marx (a German national, by the way) promoted terrorism in his 19th century writings, which in turn was related to Communist terrorism which is an article about terrorism in Western Europe, Asia and South America (and no mention of Eastern Europe) and its proported relationship to Marxist doctrine, is related to my topic ban on East European national, cultural or ethnic disputes.

    I was only trying to help diffuse the situation and help JM understand how things work on Wikipedia. He seems to be widely read on Marxist writings and seems to have great potential to contribute. However given the climate of the increasingly broad and elastic interpretation of topic bans, I'm quite prepared to strike all my comments on JM's talk page and take no further part in trying to assist. --Martin (talk) 03:23, 31 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

    • Petri Krohn's involvement below appears to be an issue of WP:ACTIVIST, Arbitrator Shell Kinney is familiar with Petri's affiliation with a certain fringe political group, please contact her for the details. --Martin (talk) 21:04, 31 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

    Response to AGK and others

    My edits of Constitution of Estonia are fully sourced [23] from Estonica, Estonia's reference encyclopaedia similar to Britannica. Text accurately reflects the content from Estonica[24]. There never has been any connection with the article Constitution of Estonia and ethnic, cultural and national disputes. Nobody objected to my edits until it appeared that the original AE report wasn't going to get the result desired by Petri Krohn[25]

    I must say this is the first time I've seen Bronze Night interpreted as a struggle over "opposing constitutional views", I thought it was about people protesting about the appropriateness of moving a war grave, but then I've only edited that article twice[26][27]. After scanning through the article Bronze Night, the only reference to the Constitution of Estonia is in the section Bronze Night#Proposed Law on Forbidden Structures, where the constitution is actually used in support of the minority to veto more extreme legislation in regard to the Bronze soldier monument. No mention in that article that the disturbance was a result of conflict between two "opposing constitutional views".

    Now Petri has said[28] he has just now created a redirect from Constitution of the Estonian SSR to Constitution of Estonia [29] to apparently bolster his case, which begs the question on why Constitution of the Estonian SSR hadn't existed as a redirect before this AE report if there truly was a dispute over "opposing constitutional views". My reaction to this is that constitutions are specific legal documents related to a specific legal state order. Constitution of Estonia discusses the evolution of a series of specific constitutional legal act(s) related to a specific state order of the Republic of Estonia. Our opinions of a republic's notion of itself, based upon a specific legal POVs and assumptions as presented in the text of the constitution and commentary from sources like Estonica, is irrelevant and cannot be subject to dispute over POV, only verifiability. Redirecting Constitution of the Estonian SSR to Constitution of Estonia makes no sense. Constitution of the Estonian SSR should be expanded to discuss the specific constitutional legal act(s) as they pertain to the Soviet system and in the mean time be redirected to either Constitution of the Soviet Union or Estonian Soviet Socialist Republic, I have no problem with that.

    I'm not sure Petri Krohn's POV of "opposing constitutional views" is actually based upon any published source or is it likely he just made this up. I've done some digging around and all I could find is manifesto published by SAFKA here, apparently signed by a person named "Petri Krohn" which Petri has linked himself to here. Whether Offliner has some sort of affiliation with SAFKA too, who knows. Are Petri Krohn's and Offliner's disagreement with my good faith edits to Constitution of Estonia an issue of WP:ACTIVIST? That needs to be determined elsewhere.

    Given the way Petri Krohn and Offliner have piled on to this AE report, in conjunction with the creation of Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Martintg, there appears to be a larger issue than that what was originally reported. This AE report ought to be referred to the Arbitration committee, admins patrolling AE have done that in the past.

    The battleground is where you want it to be. I was minding my own business editing what I thought was uncontroversial topic based upon reliable sources and now this is be painted as wrong doing by two apparent activists. Afterall, the article isn't called Estonian constitutional dispute or something. If the admins here think my good faithed edits to Constitution of Estonia backed by a reliable source[30] is also covered by my topic ban, then I will no longer edit that article either. --Martin (talk) 04:26, 2 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

    Statement by Petri Krohn

    These protests and the violent civil disturbance that followed were targeted precisely against the revisionist interpretation of the constitution of Estonia Martintg has now introduced into the article. If this is not about "national, cultural, or ethnic disputes within Eastern Europe", I do not know what is!

    I have made every effort not to cross paths on or off Wikipedia with Martintg or his Eastern European supporters. I do not follow his edits or interfere with his editing and try not to edit articles in his limited scope of interest. Yet Martintg is exhibiting a pattern of following my edit history and editing the same or related pages, or coming to the defense of my opponents in disputes where I am a party. (The most innocent case of this is editing Operation Catherine after I added a link to it in two articles.) This has to stop! I will also be filing a related sock puppet investigation on him in a case where I believe he broke his topic ban by editing an article I had pointed him to.

    In the previous arbitration enforcement case against Martintg I posted a long comment explaining the dispute Martintg is involved in.

    "The central and core issue in the Eastern European disputes – as it relates to Estonia and other Baltic republics – is the claimed state continuity of the Baltic states in exile..." '

    It is of relevance only for the record, as due to conflicting edits, I made my edit two minutes after Jehochman had issued a one week ban. I could have been more terse. A minimal topic ban that would keep Martintg out of the dispute could be worded as follows:

    "Any content, (edit, section or article) that describes or tries to describe Soviet rule in the Baltics or Eastern Europe as illegal or oppressive or communism as immoral or criminal."

    This week Martintg started rewriting the article on the Constitution of Estonia. (history) The article is now yet another POV-clone of the claimed state continuity of the Baltic states in exile, as it only reflects the legal fantasy on the unrecognized government-in-exile. Already his first edit falls under his topic ban on “disputes”, as it introduced the disputed claim that the Soviet Union "occupied" Estonia in 1940.

    Martintg's only other contribution to article space, after his last topic ban ended, is to the article on Mart Laar. (history) Laar is the former prime minister of Estonia a, but also a controversial revisionist historian, who's books have been... (Claimed BLP violation removed by Martintg, will restore with source – or, why should I care. If Martintg cannot even allow this statement to exist, then clearly Laar is part of a dispute, and he should not be editing the article. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 20:56, 31 October 2010 (UTC)) – and a primary source for Martintg's disputed POV. Although the edits were innocent, I would consider the article to be under his topic ban. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 17:56, 31 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

    P.S. – I have made request for a sock puppet investigation at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Martintg. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 21:49, 1 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

    Response to AGK and EdJohnston

    One side in the ethnic conflict in Estonia, including the right-wing nationalist parties, the former “Estonian Government in Exile” and most notably, former prime minister and historian Mart Laar will argue that the underground “National Committee” formed by Kaarel Liidak in 1944, and the government in exile declared by August Rei, in Oslo, Norway in 1953 represent a de jure continuation of the Republic of Estonia – as it existed before June 1940. They also argue that constitutional rule was only established in Estonia in 1992, when the government in exile ceased operations and handed “power” over to president Lennart Meri and then prime minister Mart Laar. According to this view Estionia was under military occupation from 1940 to 1991 or 1992. and any action taken by local Estonian authorities, including implementing its workforce-hungry immigration policy, were actions of occupation authorities and thus without legitimacy. This is the point-of-view the article on the constitution of Estonia – as created by Matrintg – exist to promote. This interpretation of history is relevant, as it forms the legal basis of the denaturalization (loss of citizenship) of the ethnically non-Estonian population carried out under Mart Laar's rule in 1992. At the time the share of Estonian speakers in Estonia was a little over 50%.

    The opposing view, shared by Estonia's Russophone minority as well as modern Russian historiography is that the non-violent anti-authoritarian revolution in Estonia in June 1940 (known as Juunipööre) preserved the legal continuity of the Estonian state, and thus the petition of the Riigikogu to join the Soviet Union on July 22 as the Estonian SSR was constitutional. This view also holds, that the renamed Republic of Estonia of 1990, under prime minister Edgar Savisaar, and the succeeding independent member state of the United Nations of 1991 – all the way to modern Estonia – represent a legal continuation of the Estonian SSR (and thus its Soviet constitution.) Some on this side would argue, that the rise to power of Mart Laar and the constitutional changes that followed were a coup d'etat, carried out to pursue a racist national policy. People holding these views will argue that Estonia practices an apartheid policy by disenfranchising and discriminating against its minorities.

    The conflict between these two opposing constitutional views reached a climax in April 2007, with violent civil disturbance. The events also brought in a large number of new editors to Wikipedia, initially to edit war over the article Bronze Soldier, with some of them continuing in disputes that eventually resulted in the EEML arbcom case. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 23:20, 1 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

    P.S. – I have redirected Constitution of the Estonian SSR to Constitution of Estonia. However, I cannot see how the article could accurately reflect the needs of this redirect with Martintg anywhere near the article. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 03:43, 2 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

    Response to Biophys – You are in fact arguing, that Martintg should be allowed to edit the Bronze Soldier, as it is about a statue, but not the Bronze Nights as it about an ethnic dispute. I cannot agree with you. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 23:25, 1 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

    Comment by Collect

    This appears to be "topic ban extension shopping" at best. The comments did not address Eastern Europe as a topic, and the extension of Digwuren has reached the level of putting a size 20 foot into a sixe 9 shoe. The nature of each editor's personal biases is irrelevant - there is no case to be made for stretching Digwuren even further. Note: I am banned from editing the London Victory Parade article which I have never even read, as a result of the spandex topic bans. Collect (talk) 16:26, 1 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

    Statement by Offliner

    A few weeks ago Martintg was blocked for a week for a massive violation of his topic ban. Additionally, former arbitrator FloNight urged Martintg to step back from pov contributions in the Eastern European topic area.[31] Based on the current AE report, and especially this edit one has to question whether Martintg has learned anything from his latest block. The edit inserts text when the Soviet Union occupied Estonia, which clearly is a POV contribution about the topic of Occupation of the Baltic states, one of the main EE disputes and battlegrounds. The edit is similar to what Martintg was already blocked for. It seems that—contrary to ArbCom's demands—Martintg has failed to disengange from the battleground, and is continuing to violate his topic ban. Offliner (talk) 19:35, 1 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

    Response to AGK. This edit relates to the national dispute about the occupation of Estonia, with the other side claiming that Estonia being joined to the Soviet Union constitutes an occupation, while the other claims that it does not. The topic is the same for which Martintg was already blocked for (mainly this edit.) Please see this thread for details. Offliner (talk) 22:50, 1 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

    Comments by others about the request concerning Martintg

    In my opinion, this is too broad understanding of the topic ban. Although User:Justus Maximus edited only two articles, both of which had a relation to Communism, he is a newbie, so it would be premature to speak about him as about an anti-Communist SPA. In his posts Martin has been focused only on the way User:Justus Maximus was being treated, not on the content of his edits. He carefully avoided any content disputes. In my opinion, it would be hardly correct to speak about violation of the topic ban. In any event, even if it is the case, this violation is rather tangential, so a warning would be quite sufficient.--Paul Siebert (talk) 02:32, 31 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

    Can I concur with Paul Siebert here. It seems unduly harsh and possibly counterproductive to interpret a topic ban as extending into discussions about other users, merely because said users have been themselves banned in relation to a somewhat-distantly-related topic. I think the MartinG's arguments on Justus Maximus's behalf may actually help JM to understand that the action taken against him wasn't due to his viewpoint, but to his behaviour. AndyTheGrump (talk) 03:03, 31 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

    Martintg is not topic-banned from articles about Eastern Europe, see here. I guess that is the reason why TFD was unable to link the appropriate ArbCom decision, as required for enforcement. In any case, I hope that this time a deeply involved administrator will not abuse his administrative rights and quickly enforce a highly dubious extremely harsh block without support from other administrators, like it happened before (why does he even have admin right after such major violation is beyond my understanding). --Sander Säde 08:31, 31 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

    Could we stop with this nonsense now? There is nothing controversial in articles about Mart Laar and Constitution of Estonia - this can easily be seen from the fact that there are not even unreliable sources claiming any controversies. This is just an attempt to silence or drive Martin away from Wikipedia. Martin has agreed to stay away from further attempts to defuse issues peacefully, I recommend an official ArbCom warning for both TFD and Petri Krohn (perhaps an interaction ban - or ban from ArbCom and AN/I pages?) for repeated attempts to misuse arbitration enforcement to resolve personal and content issues. --Sander Säde 21:18, 1 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

    Re to AGK. I suggest to quote accurately this Arbcom motion. It tells that Martintg "is topic banned from articles about national, cultural, or ethnic disputes...". This article is about constitution. Of course any political or historical subject is related to numerous conflicts (consider US constitution, for example). Such an extended interpretation would prohibit Martintg from editing any historic/political subjects in Eastern Europe. If that was Arbcom intention, this should be explained to Martintg and other users who have similar sanctions.Biophys (talk) 22:08, 1 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    People, how about helping your colleague to resume productive editing, instead of looking for every excuse to report him to AE? This battleground must stop.Biophys (talk) 13:42, 2 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

    Rsp to AGK - no, there is nothing controversial about Mart Laar and Constitution of Estonia, which can clearly be seen from lack of any kind of sources in Offliner's and Petri's claims, not to mention, solid, peer-reviewed sources in major scientific journals. The claim that Mart Laar's book was banned in Germany is simply an untruth.

    As for Martintg's previous block, it was a clear-cut case of administrative abuse. At the time when the only non-involved administrator expressed worries about quality of evidence against Martin and suggested him to stop editing those articles or he might get a warning, an admin deeply involved in WP:EEML case (who also was against partial lifting of the Martin's topic ban) blocked Martin in what must be a record time in closing arbitration enforcement case. And since it was Martin's first offense, a standard procedure would have been a warning, especially considering the weak evidence. Second offense would get 12 or 24h ban. But the admin blocked Martin immediately for a week. Like I've said before, I do not know why his administrative rights were not immediately removed after such blatant misuse.

    --Sander Säde 08:40, 2 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

    Result concerning Martintg

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
    • See User talk:Martintg#WP:AE.23Request concerning Martintg. Martintg has agreed to concede the point, at least as regards to his actions during the remainder of his topic ban. The ban expires on 22 December. I asked him to "voluntarily agree to absent yourself from any unblock review proceedings (or in ANI discussions or on any admin talk pages) where the person involved has recently edited any article or subject matter on your banned list." Based on his agreeing to this, I recommend that the enforcement request should be closed with no further action. EdJohnston (talk) 20:44, 1 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    Hang on, Petri Krohn may be expanding his statement. He has more issues besides Martintg's participation in the unblock discussion. EdJohnston (talk) 21:00, 1 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    Question for Petri Krohn and others
    Can you create a list of articles from which you think Martintg should be restricted during the remainder of his topic ban, that would avoid the problems you identify? Do you think he should avoid editing anything to do with Estonia during WW II? In your opinion does this prevent him from writing about the Constitution of Estonia? EdJohnston (talk) 06:08, 2 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • Marting has edited the article Constitution of Estonia (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views), an article which it is claimed relates to "national, cultural, or ethnic disputes within Eastern Europe" (as prohibited by Arbitration motion). For the benefit of me and other administrators not intimately familiar with the subject matter of the conflicts of Eastern Europe, an explanation is required as to how that article does relate to the specified disputes.

      If it is demonstrated that the article does relate to the historical disputes in question and so for Marting to edit the article would constitute a violation of his topic ban, I would be minded to propose a two-week block for the infringement (with the absence of leniency in the length of that block being owned to the fact that Marting was blocked for violating his topic ban not even one month ago). AGK 21:53, 1 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

    Rigger30

    Blocked, 24h.
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    Request concerning Rigger30

    User requesting enforcement
    O Fenian (talk) 20:22, 31 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Rigger30 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
    Sanction or remedy that this user violated
    Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/The Troubles#Final remedies for AE case
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. [32] Revert to this version
    2. [33] Second revert, within 24 hours of the first
    3. [34] Third revert, within 24 hours of the first
    Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)
    1. [35] Warning by O Fenian (talk · contribs)
    Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)
    Block
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint
    Has clearly received the notification prior to the second revert, since he replied to my talk page messages here before the second revert.

    I will admit to a 1RR violation myself, but please allow me to explain. Here I reverted the third edit he made, as it has BLP implications and it is also factually inaccurate. In the early 1970s Gerry Adams was not held at a prison, as it was not a prison at the time it was an internment camp. Internment was for those held without trial or charge, whereas prison obviously implies either convicted or on remand after being charged. As the article was on the main page at the time, I felt it was unacceptable to have such an error in the article especially with the possible BLP implications. You will note my second revert ignored their second edit. I believe only reverting the one edit considering the lack of accuracy, BLP implications and the article being on the main page at the time should not count against me, but will accept any decision. O Fenian (talk) 20:22, 31 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
    [36]

    Discussion concerning Rigger30

    Statement by Rigger30

    Comments by others about the request concerning Rigger30

    Result concerning Rigger30

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
    Clear violation, blocked for 24 hours. Given his explanation above, I"m not inclined to block O Fenian at this time. Courcelles 20:31, 31 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • Concur with decision and agree that O Fenian's explanation is adequate. Closing this thread. AGK 21:54, 1 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

    Jeffrey Vernon Merkey

    Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

    Request concerning Jeffrey Vernon Merkey

    User requesting enforcement
    Pfagerburg (talk) 03:21, 2 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Jeffrey Vernon Merkey (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
    Sanction or remedy that this user violated
    Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Jeffrey Vernon Merkey#Jeffrey Vernon Merkey banned
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

    The IP's listed in the most recent sockpuppet investigation have been making baseless accusations of sockpuppetry against me. Due to the articles which the IP's have edited, their obsession with tagging an IP in Canada as being me (though the sockmaster knows full well I live in Colorado), and the geolocation corresponding with the sockmaster's recently self-reported location, these are ban-evading sockpuppets of banned user Jeffrey Vernon Merkey (talk · contribs), and should be blocked.

    1. [37]
    2. [38]
    3. [39]
    4. [40]
    5. [41]
    6. [42]
    Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)
    1. Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive25#Jeffrey_Vernon_Merkey
    2. Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive41#Jeffrey_Vernon_Merkey
    3. Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive48#Jvmphoto
    4. Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive65#Jeffrey_Vernon_Merkey
    Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)
    Block IP's listed in the SPI. High-level contact from Wikimedia Foundation to the ISP to inform them of the abuse originating from one of their subscribers.
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint
    As also noted in the SPI, I am under an interaction ban with socks of banned user Jeffrey Vernon Merkey (talk · contribs), but the terms of the ban explicitly allow me to report socks to administrative boards.
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
    [43], [44], [45], [46], [47] Pfagerburg (talk) 03:25, 2 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

    Discussion concerning Jeffrey Vernon Merkey

    Statement by Jeffrey Vernon Merkey

    Comments by others about the request concerning Jeffrey Vernon Merkey

    Result concerning Jeffrey Vernon Merkey

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.