Wikipedia:Reference desk/Miscellaneous

Welcome to the miscellaneous section
of the Wikipedia reference desk.

skip to bottom

Select a section:

• Computing
• Entertainment
• Humanities
• Language
• Mathematics
• Science
• Miscellaneous
• Archives

Want a faster answer?

Main page: Help searching Wikipedia

   

How can I get my question answered?

• Select the section of the desk that best fits the general topic of your question (see the navigation column to the right).
• Post your question to only one section, providing a short header that gives the topic of your question.
• Type '~~~~' (that is, four tilde characters) at the end – this signs and dates your contribution so we know who wrote what and when.
• Don't post personal contact information – it will be removed. Any answers will be provided here.
• Please be as specific as possible, and include all relevant context – the usefulness of answers may depend on the context.
• Note:
  • We don't answer (and may remove) questions that require medical diagnosis or legal advice.
  • We don't answer requests for opinions, predictions or debate.
  • We don't do your homework for you, though we'll help you past the stuck point.
  • We don't conduct original research or provide a free source of ideas, but we'll help you find information you need.

Ready? Ask a new question!

How do I answer a question?

Main page: Wikipedia:Reference desk/Guidelines

• The best answers address the question directly, and back up facts with wikilinks and links to sources. Do not edit others' comments and do not give any medical or legal advice.

See also:

• Teahouse
• Help desk
• Village pump
• Help manual

December 29

kleenex facial tissue

does or did kleenex facial tissue use a substance like fiberglass as a binder in its makings thus causing irratation to the face — Preceding unsigned comment added by Don C Stephens (talk • contribs) 01:05, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia has an article about Kleenex though by "kleenex" you may mean Facial tissue in general. Where did you get the idea about its binder? Cuddlyable3 (talk) 01:48, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Seems doubtful. According to the article, fiberglass as we now know it was invented in 1938, and Kleenex in the 1920s. Why would Kimberly-Clark add a new and most likely expensive ingredient to an already successful product? The Kleenex FAQ description of the manufacturing process mentions nothing other than wood pulp, although the biodegradability answer does refer to "an additive to make it strong". This page claims malic acid in Kleenex can cause Contact dermatitis. Clarityfiend (talk) 03:19, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

I once worked in a lab where Kimwipes were abundant. They're also made by Kimberly-Clark, and resemble Kleenex more than a little bit, but are rather abrasive; I did sometimes use them on my nose though, just because they were handy. I can imagine a rumor spreading from Kimwipes to Kleenex. —Tamfang (talk) 03:45, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Think the OP has got confused with fibreglass tissue which is the first layer to be applied along with the gelcoat to provide a smooth surface (a clean face) when removed from the mold. The article obviously need this important detail to be added.--Aspro (talk) 12:41, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

The other point is that, facial tissue is cellulose fibre, which only needs heat, moisture and pressure to bind it. Glass fibre on the other hand, is sprayed with a resin to keep it from falling apart. That resin can irritate some skins. --Aspro (talk) 21:38, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Paper may contain some silica from the original plant material. Could you be thinking of that? This can scratch glasses, so the synthetic cloth is better. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 20:11, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Cheque-less payments

I am involved in a small social organisation (in the UK) that charges an annual membership fee. Members receive reminders when their membership is about to expire, and most of them send a cheque in with their renewal form. I understand that the British banks want to do away with cheques (as our Cheque article confirms). I wonder how similar organisations get paid in those countries that have already abolished cheques. I should say that although some of our members are technologically aware and would be happy to institute payeents electronically, many of them are not. --rossb (talk) 10:58, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

I'm in Australia. While we still have cheques, their usage is now quite small. Two small organisations I'm part of accept direct deposit or transfer of funds into their bank accounts. The transaction record allows for something like a surname or invoice number to be included, so you know whose money it is. DOn't if that's possible in the UK, but it works for us. It's much less labour intensive than cheques. HiLo48 (talk) 11:27, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Our article on cheques in the UK is a little misleading. 2018 is a target date but no firm decision has yet been made. It is highly dependent on alternatives being in place by then. Full details are available here.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 12:34, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

You already have five options: Direct debit (involves some work for the organisation), standing order (needs the member to set this up, or sign a form produced by the organisation), cash (not always convenient), direct credit (as in Australia, where you just publish the organisations account number to members and they can pay by internet banking or by visiting their own bank), and cheque (which will be replaced by a voucher system in 2018 or whenever). Dbfirs 18:29, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

There are so many electronic options including the oldest and easiest of just paying by MasterCard/Visa recurring payments. even my grandpa can do that. actually you can get someone to help you set that up if you have to. Roberto75780 (talk) 19:46, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

I've been using MasterCard and Visa for decades, but I didn't know that it was possible for the cardholder to set up recurring payments, or even one payment. How does one do this? I thought payments were always originated by the payee. Dbfirs 22:18, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

(e/c) What about giro payments? Seems to me to be the standard form of payment for these sort of things in Denmark. And it includes both analogue and electronic options (although in order to encourage people to use electronic payments, they charge an outrageous fee for analogue payments here). --Saddhiyama (talk) 19:49, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Yes, "Bank Giro Credit" in the UK is the way that customers pay funds into any account at their own bank or at the recipient's bank (or any other bank on payment of a fee), but it requires publication of the recipient's bank details, as I mentioned above. For a small organisation, it is not cost-effective to print specialised credit forms for the recipient's account. There are significant costs involved in setting up credit-card systems, so I would not recommend that option when other options are free to both organisation and customer. There will probably not be any need to change your current procedures. Dbfirs 09:00, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Indeed it seems the UK is not ready for No-cheque society yet, if you still have people in your org. who do not know how to make an online payment to a sort code and account number. You can't send cash by post, and all other payment forms are either expensive in comparison to cheques, or require to travel to your local bank branch or local post office. I think we'll have cheques for longer than 8 years. --14:56, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Yes, many small businesses in the UK still rely on payment by cheque, even though it costs them money to deposit these into their account. Cheques will be replaced by a similar system called "vouchers" for those who prefer to make this type of payment. I use about two cheques per year from my own account. The "vouchers" will be cheques by another name except that the payee's bank details will need to be entered by either payer or payee. There is some concern about security if the vouchers are not returned to the payer's bank for signature checking. Dbfirs 21:52, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

I run a Scout group in the UK, and we have many members (or rather, their parents) who still use cheques to pay for camps, etc. Direct debit is very expensive to set up, and not viable for an organization our size. We do have most of our membership subscriptions paid by standing order, but this is not viable for some families on low-incomes who are also unlikely to have access to online banking. We also use cheques on our group account to pay for large purchases such as tents, campsite fees, and the like. We have had exactly no information at all from our bank about the end of cheques. DuncanHill (talk) 17:12, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

That's because the banks haven't yet decided on the details of the "voucher" system that will replace cheques, or even on the exact date (possibly later than 2018) when central clearing will cease. Direct Credit (Bank Giro Credit) is an alternative, but requires the customer to visit their bank (or your bank with cash). By 2018, I expect that almost all families, even low income ones, will have access to online banking, but the voucher system will cater for the small minority who don't want to use it. The even smaller minority without a bank account at all will have to continue to pay cash. At present, the banks don't encourage voluntary organisations to set up internet banking because of the difficulties involved with requiring two signatories or equivalent authorisations, but this might change by 2018 so that cheques will not be needed to pay for tents, camping etc. I also run accounts for voluntary organisations, and neither of the banks involved has mentioned the withdrawal of cheques. Dbfirs 20:13, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

Voucher = piece of paper with your name and account details, payee and amount. Cheque = piece of paper with your name, account details, payee and amount. I suppose it could work! DuncanHill (talk) 23:15, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

One reason I look forward to the disappearance of cheques is that it will remove one of the most obvious, annoying, and, quite frankly, disturbing differences in spelling between UK and US English. HiLo48 (talk) 23:25, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

Christmas / New year.

Is it intentional that Christmas and New Year's are exactly one week apart? jc iindyysgvxc (my contributions) 13:18, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Christmas occurs on December 25 every year, and New Year's comes every year on January 1, so they will always be separated by 7 days. According to our article, the date of Christmas was selected in the distant past, and although there are many theories about how December 25 came to be used, there are no records that would help us to verify the reason for that date. Personally, I think it is probably a coincidence; it doesn't seem likely that having the holiday exactly one week before the end of the year would have been a priority for the early church leaders. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 14:54, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

There are various competing stories about how the date of Christmas was selected; see Christmas#Date of celebration. The most likely explanation is that the date was fixed on the winter solstice, which falls on 25 December on the Roman calendar. (The date was retained in the modern calendar, even though the winter solstice actually falls a few days earlier in our reckoning.) Whether the solstice has independent significance within Christian teachings or was selected to coincide with (and usurp) pagan solstice celebrations is debated: Sol Invictus#Sol Invictus and Christianity.

The placement of the new year has also varied through the ages. See New Year and New Year's Day for some examples. Note especially New Year#Historical Christian new year dates, which shows an assortment of new year dates to line up with an assortment of Christian celebrations over the years. Christmas style dating pegs the start of the new year on Christmas day, while under Annunciation style and Easter style dates the new year begins on 25 March and either Easter Saturday or Good Friday, respectively. We are currently using circumcision style dates – the least festive name by far – where the new year falls on 1 January: the Feast of the Circumcision of Christ. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 15:07, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

The story I always heard was that Christmas was an adoption of the Saturnalia and New Year's was the celebration of Janus, the Roman god of new beginnings. schyler (talk) 15:21, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Anunciation Day was assigned to the first day of spring, which was then March 25th, and it fit with spring fertility celebrations; and hence Christmas came 9 months later, at the winter solstice, which was then December 25th, and had to do with the "rebirth" of the sun. The Romans who imposed Christianity as the state religion associated the Christian God with the sun god, which squares with beliefs about God bringing goodness and light and so on. When they knocked 10 days off the calendar in 1582, they really should have knocked a few more off to get the solstices and equinoxes back in sync with the holy days, but they didn't. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:53, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

To complicate things further, the Catholic Church treats the first Sunday of Advent as the start of the Church year, making the Sunday before that, the Feast of Christ the King, the last Sunday of the year. I don't know what you'd call that, or how that decision interacts with other reckonings of the New Year.

86.164.67.8 (talk) 17:31, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Originally, christmas was intended to be on the winter solstice (shortest day of year). at that time, the new year started 3 months later, on the first day of spring. Roberto75780 (talk) 19:44, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

That feast has the rather pretty alternative name of the Feast of the Holy Name of Jesus. I can't help thinking that calling them "holy name style dates" would have contributed more to their sooner uptake than the rather painful-sounding "circumcision style dates". Marnanel (talk) 19:49, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

They would serve calimari at that feast, except it isn't kosher. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 07:39, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Higher Quality SVG Map of Europe/EU?

While the standard svg map of Europe is quite good for viewing at the scale of the continent, when you zoom in to the country level, it looks really terrible. Is there a higher quality version available somewhere? --CGPGrey (talk) 14:45, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Is this any better? I don't know how the SVG is constructed, but it may be simple to remove the cub-country borders. - Jarry1250 ^{[Who? Discuss.]} 15:39, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Also: Wikipedia:WikiProject Maps ¦ Reisio (talk) 17:14, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Buying things and then going bankrupt (in the U.S.)

Resolved

Hello, I know some people who have told me that they are going to buy a 50 inch TV because they are going bankrupt. I take this to mean that they are going to buy it and then go bankrupt so they don't have to actually pay for it. So, my question is, is there a law against this? Can they get in trouble for planning on buying expensive things right before going bankrupt? I'm not asking for legal advice, just a yes/no question, does such a law exist? It seems to me this must be illegal. Or, at least that such things would be taken away after they went bankrupt. These people are going bankrupt because they have a long history of a whole bunch of stupid purchases. But, at least early on they at least somehow stupidly thought they would actually pay for all the stuff at some point, unlike this situation. StatisticsMan (talk) 14:54, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Your friend should seek legal advice before declaring bankruptcy, and before making any major purchases in advance of an anticipated bankruptcy. While I cannot comment or advise your friend on his specific situation, I will pass on a column: 12 myths about bankruptcy. Myth number 12:

I can max out all my credit cards, file for bankruptcy, and never pay for the things I bought. That's called fraud, and bankruptcy judges can get really cranky about it. The trustee in your case will review all your purchases right before your filing. He knows what to look for.

A bankruptcy judge can opt not to discharge some debts, may insist that the debtor file for Chapter 13 (financial reorganization and repayment plan) rather than Chapter 7 (forgiveness of debts), or may deny the bankruptcy petition altogether; the interim trustee may sell many types of non-excluded assets; and the acquisition of goods and services with no intent to pay for them may lead to criminal prosecution under theft or fraud statutes. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 15:52, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

That's the problem with all these sorts of scams, Judges don't robotically give you what looks right on paper, they're allowed to use common sense, and they've seen these things a lot more than you have.

(I wonder if your friends had better be nice to you now that they've said this to you. Wouldn't the credit card companies like a witness to this sort of pre-meditated scam?)APL (talk) 16:07, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

The jails are full of folks who thought they were smarter than the justice system. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:12, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

True, but insufficient information. (One could just as easily boast, "Our justice system successfully tracked down, arrested, prosecuted, and sentenced one hundred percent of criminals...in our jails!" Or even turn your statement around: "The streets are full of folks who really were smarter than the justice system.") TenOfAllTrades(talk) 16:28, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Only because they haven't been caught yet. >:) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:39, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Without speculating on the legal or financial aspects, I have a friend who starts and goes through companies like most people go through cars (e.g. every two years or so). One of the things he told me was that, at least in our state, assets you've acquired 60 days before declaring bankruptcy were out of reach of the courts, or something like that. So 60 days before one of his companies is about to go up, he liquidates all of the assets one way or the other and charges them to himself, so that when they do file bankruptcy, he gets to say that the company legitimately has zero assets, or something like that. I don't know the legal or financial details, to say the least. But all of this imposed upon me the fact that you really have to know what you are doing to do this kind of thing "right", that is, to exploit the technicalities of the system in order to profit from it, without getting in trouble. If your friend does not have experience in this area, or wise counsel from someone who does, I would suspect he is going to get himself into a bit of trouble just trying to logic it out on his own. (This also imposed on me that I would have no aptitude at business, for this kind of ruthless exploitation of the rules is not really my cup of tea!) --Mr.98 (talk) 17:02, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

In Britain at least, all your assets get seized and sold to pay off your debt, so the above scheme would not work. 92.29.127.80 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 14:54, 30 December 2010 (UTC).

Assuming that all the assets are able to be located... Googlemeister (talk) 16:33, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

It would be very difficult to hide assets due to tight money laundering regulations, so you'd get them confiscated and you'd be sent to prison as well. 92.24.185.225 (talk) 13:21, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

It is incredibly easy to hide assets once you have them. Obviously I am not talking about real estate or a Ferrari or anything like that, but if you want to hide $1,000,000 from the government, all you have to go out and buy a few hundred ounces of gold. Then, using your standard shovel, you could bury it. People have been doing stuff like that for centuries. Maybe the government tracks sales of that size, but them knowing that you have 700 oz of gold is not the same as them knowing where it is so that they can go seize it. Googlemeister (talk) 16:35, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks all! StatisticsMan (talk) 14:30, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Outside the law

Does the Brazillian legal system not make uncontacted tribes or other remote tribes face prosecution the way other brazillians do? I know FUNAI is quite adamant about preserving their way of life by leaving them alone, but what about when they kill people, why dont they face murder charges? Even animals face concequences! I am at a loss as what should be done in that situation, obviously you cant try and prosecute a man who has lived isolated with a hundred or so people his whole life the same way you prosecute a person who has, or expected to have, regular society upbringing and morals, but you cant just leave them either..? What do they do in other countries? Roberto75780 (talk) 19:38, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

This looks like soapboxing disguised as a question. Try being more specific. For starters, what the blazes is FUNAI? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:41, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

FUNAI == Fundação Nacional do Índio, the arm of the Brazilian government that is supposed to look after indigenous peoples. Marnanel (talk) 19:52, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

(EC) You seem to feel very strongly about this, but you have not provided much information about the case (presumably) you are talking about. Could you tell us what it is you are referring to? TomorrowTime (talk) 19:48, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

In the US, some Native Americans live on reservations. They have their own tribal laws, which apply to crimes committed there. However, crimes committed outside the reservation are prosecuted under normal state and federal laws. StuRat (talk) 22:47, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

The question what you do in other countries is somehow out of place. Most countries don't have isolated tribes, which wouldn't ever understand the laws of a their society around. As a matter of fact, they are 'put to trial' according to their own traditions. Quest09 (talk) 04:02, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

prison

How would one go about escaping from a cell in the Conciergerie? 85.210.114.49 (talk) 20:24, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

A rock hammer and a poster of Rita Hayworth? --Jayron32 20:29, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

The Scarlet Pimpernel? --Saddhiyama (talk) 20:31, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

See A Tale of Two Cities#Book the Third: The Track of a Storm. Deor (talk) 21:56, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Bribery might work. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:09, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

That's one important element in any prison escape. Others include friends on the inside, friends on the outside, making tools, clothes, and weapons, finding an escape route, and timing the escape well. StuRat (talk) 06:01, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

The Clint Eastwood movie, Escape from Alcatraz, might be a good object lesson. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 06:07, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Given that the conciergerie is a museum, one's best bet is probably to alert a curator or guard that one somehow got locked into a cell. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 14:03, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Maybe start singing the Marseillaise, and hopefully a crowd will gather. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:09, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Like the prison escapes in the The Count of Monte Cristo or The Wind In The Willows. 92.29.127.80 (talk) 15:01, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Ring up the concierge and ask him for a key. Edison (talk) 19:51, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

..then see how long it takes to fall to the ground. Oh, sorry, wrong problem. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 20:04, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Unpaved major roads

The last unpaved portion of Virginia's primary state highway system is a few miles of a mountainous portion of VA 91, which has been unpaved since the route's formation in 1940 and will remain as such for a long while. Are there any other major segments of US state highway systems, or equivalent systems (British A-roads, German Bundesstrassen), that are still not paged? 68.98.136.85 (talk) 23:41, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

The CIA factbook states that none of the roads maintained by the UK or German government are unpaved. It also states that over 2million kilometers of US roads are unpaved.[1] Nanonic (talk) 00:41, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

As far as I know, a lot of the highway network in Alaska -- including numbered state routes -- is unpaved (it being impractical to maintain pavement in subarctic and arctic conditions). One example is the Steese Highway from Fairbanks to Circle, which I'm pretty sure is still gravel for most of its length. Antandrus (talk) 00:50, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Other "highways" that are unpaved (or mostly unpaved) in Alaska include the Taylor Highway, the Top of the World Highway (if I remember correctly), the Denali Highway, and the Dalton Highway. Calliopejen1 (talk) 16:29, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure that I would categorize that stretch of VA 91 as a major highway. There are certainly state highways in other states that are unpaved. Another example is the Moki Dugway of Utah State Route 261. Marco polo (talk) 02:58, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Virginia State Route 91 is a state highway. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 15:45, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Iceland's Route 1 (the 'ring road') is likely that country's longest and busiest highway, encircling the entire island and connecting most (all?) of the major centers of population — but it still has significant unpaved stretches, particularly in the north. Once you get out of the capital region, actually, a lot of Iceland's highways are unpaved. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 14:08, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

I did the full loop in 2006, and I only remember a few segments in the NE/E being unpaved (no more than a few stretches, none more than 10 miles long I'd guess), as you say, once you're off the ring road, it's a whole different story. --j⚛e decker^talk 19:41, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Not sure I'd call it "major", but the last few miles of California State Route 270 are unpaved. --j⚛e decker^talk 19:45, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

December 30

Milk jug threads

What is the diameter and pitch of the threads of a common gallon milk jug? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.86.226.15 (talk) 05:12, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Your best bet is to buy one and count them. Unless it's a pop-top. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 06:06, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

As Bugs might have made more explicit, the answer is likely to vary according to which country and perhaps more specific region you are in, which you have not vouchsafed us, although I would take a WAG at the USA which still measures such things in its version of a gallon. (The UK commonly uses multiples of both litres and imperial pints (= 0.87 litres) for domestic-sale milk containers, but not usually as many as 8 pints). If you supply your locality, someone with relevant knowledge pertaining to it may be able to answer. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 10:06, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

My first reaction was to wonder, how and why and where does a jug have threads? I can only suppose that you mean some sort of screw-top container (which I would not call a jug), and I must suppose that the answer would depend on the manufacturer. Or is there some sort of national standard for this in whatever country you live in? --ColinFine (talk) 11:40, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

I would be very surprised if there's any kind of standard, since the average milk container is a one-use object. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:05, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Is milk sold "loose" in the US, i.e. you take your own container, like cheap wine in some parts of Europe? How do you fit a gallon container in the fridge? Won't it go off before you finish using it? Itsmejudith (talk) 12:22, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Many American fridges can store multiple gallon-sized containers on the door shelves, much less on the main shelves. Just how small are European fridges, anyway ? StuRat (talk) 19:09, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Come on guys. Stop picking on our IP editor. It's obviously a standard case of US-centrism, and given that Americans aren't all great at picking irony, we should simply remind the questioner that this is a global encyclopaedia and it's worth mentioning one's country in such questions. HiLo48 (talk) 12:25, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Sold "loose"? Ugh. Anybody who would buy milk that way ought to have their sanity questioned. Anyway, a gallon jug will easily fit in a standard US fridge, and will get used pretty quickly in a larger family. But that issue is why there are various sizes: half-gallon, quart, etc. As far as US-centric... do any other countries still sell milk by the gallon or common fractions thereof? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:30, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Yes, the UK does (but it lacks a standard UK fridge).--Shantavira|^{feed me} 12:48, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

OK, I should have said "full-sized" fridge. There's no standard-sized fridge as such. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:53, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

... and most British fridges, even small ones, are designed to fit 1, 2, 4 and 6-pint containers commonly on sale in supermarkets, as well as 1/2, 1, 2 and 3 litre sizes. Perhaps I should say that the containers were designed to fit the spaces formerly intended for pint bottles. Dbfirs 15:05, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Just to respond to a couple points, A) my house (which only includes my wife and I) goes through a couple gallons a week without any of it going "off", B) Americans call a gallon container of milk a "jug" even though it may not fit the strictest definition of the word (in fact, see jug (container), C) they aren't all the same and it would take measuring or asking the maker of that specific jug, D) and finally, many people do re-use milk jugs for other things (fill with dirt and use as a dead weight, fill with water to water plants, etc). But don't take my word for it, I'm American, and since I'm irony impaired apparently, I could be an idiot as well. ;-) Dismas|^(talk) 12:35, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

I like where the "jugs" article says, "Most jugs throughout history have been made from clay, glass, or plastic." It's a little known fact that the Pharoahs were often buried with plastic jugs containing Nile water, which was a subtle hint that the pyramid-builders were in de-Nile about their mortality. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:52, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

I've known a number of Europeans who think all Americans are idiots, and I've known a number of Americans who think all Europeans are idiots. The possibility has to be considered that they are both right. :) Certainly milk containers can be used for other things... just not other perishables (except maybe by idiots). The exception would be glass bottles, which are often returnable and you get a few cents back for doing so. They are (presumably) sterilized and then re-used. But they don't have screw-on tops. Plastic milk containers are typically recyclable. Wax-paper containers might be, I'm not sure. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:42, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

I've noticed plastic containers are gradually replacing waxed paper, from large sizes down. It used to be that only gallons came in plastic, but now all half gallons seem to be plastic and even some quart containers. Next, the front line should move on to pint and half-pint sizes. I wonder what changes cause this gradual process. StuRat (talk) 19:17, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

A small aside: polyethylene (polythene in the UK) milk jugs are typically made at the dairy to avoid costs of shipping empty containers that are 99% (at least) air. There's a vacuum-forming machine that takes the raw materials for the various sizes, so the threads could be specific to a given vacuum-forming/cap system. Acroterion _(talk) 15:05, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

I think some of them still use those weird pop-on caps that invariably come off if you jostle to jug too much after you've broken the seal. APL (talk) 15:16, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

I hate those. They seem designed to pop off and spill milk into the carpet, whenever the container falls over. StuRat (talk) 19:13, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

American pints are only 16 fluid ounces, so an American "gallon" is only 6.4 pints. (I though I'd deliberately write that from a UK-centric perspective). 92.29.127.80 (talk) 15:14, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

In good old "English Units," dating from before the successful insurgency in the American Colonies, A US gallon is 128 fluid ounces, or four quarts, or 8 pints, or 16 cups. Edison (talk) 19:50, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

The American gallon was the old "wine gallon", whereas the UK adopted the "ale gallon". A wine gallon was 6.4 ale pints, of course. Our pints and gallons are two of the few things that are not bigger and better on the other side of the Atlantic! Dbfirs 21:31, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

We're not big milk drinkers here, but we happen to have a 1 quart milk carton and a 2 quart juice container that both have screw-on caps due to them being wax-paper cartoons with the cap on one side of the "sloping roof" of each carton. Here are some facts:

1 quart / 946 mililiters / [32 fluid ounces] - serving size 1 cup / 240 mililiters, 4 servings per container

Depth of screw-on top: about 1.1 centimeters, of which the bottom .4 centimeters is unthreaded

2 quart / 1.89 liters / 64 fluid ounces

Depth of screw-on top: about 1.3 centimeters, of which the bottom .4 centimeters is unthreaded

This all squares with what they used to tell us in school, that a liter was about the size of a quart. Also, notice that 16 fluid ounces would be a pint (half a quart), which squares with the old saying, "a pint's a pound the world around". Both containers' "mouths" are 2.5 centimeters in diameter, but being slightly different depths, the toppers aren't quite interchangeable. The threading itself is such that, once the cap "catches", it's pretty much once-around and it's locked. I hope this info is of some use to the OP. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:43, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

"A pint of pure water / Weighs a pound-and-a-quarter" in this part of the world Bugs. Alansplodge (talk) 20:13, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

Being neither an American nor European idiot, I recall from my Australian youth seeing people living outside towns sometimes get their milk delivered by the the milkman using a ladle to transfer milk from a large milk can, known as a churn, to the householder's billy. HiLo48 (talk) 00:02, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

My mum (British, in her 60's), can remember being sent out with a pot to get it filled with milk by the milkman. DuncanHill (talk) 10:38, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

Happily, we don't have this 6.4 pint and ale gallon nonsense in Australia no more. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 10:33, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

Straight from the cow to your doorstep. Ugh. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:45, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

Raw milk is quite tasty! You just have to be careful about the sanitary practices of the farm that you get it from. Dismas|^(talk) 00:55, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

"You just have to be careful..." That's an understatement, fer sher. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:58, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

Aw c'mon, get your milk from the local mom'n'pop farm, sift it for potential impurities, cook it and voila. I'm with dismas here, store milk can never remotely compare to milk straight from the farm. TomorrowTime (talk) 07:18, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I recall (many years ago) taking my mug and holding it under the cow to collect milk which I then drank. It was much tastier than standardised, homogenised, pasteurised milk from supermarkets. The health issues are grossly exaggerated, though the risk in drinking "raw" milk from healthy cows is just slightly higher than that in eating "raw" lettuce or "raw" strawberries. Dbfirs 10:32, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

One of the boys at my primary school used to bring in raw milk from his family's farm, it was delicious, rich and creamy. I'd also like to comment here that when I was a boy shop-milk wasn't homogenized, and tasted much better than the homogenized stuff so common today. I still try to buy non-homogenized when I can. DuncanHill (talk) 10:38, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

I'll bet it's less about the homogenization and more about the varied diet that small-farm cows get compared to cows on a feed lot. APL (talk) 18:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Of course, Literally straight from the cow isn't a fair comparison unless you normally drink your milk warm. Many things taste different at different temperatures. Or seem to at least. APL (talk) 18:40, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps I should inform our American chums that a British pint is 20 fluid ounces, compared to the puny 16 fluid ounces of American pints. This also means that although both gallons are eight pints, the size of the gallons is thus different. 92.15.12.145 (talk) 00:26, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

The ounces are different as well, though only by about 4%, much less than the difference between the pints. --Trovatore (talk) 06:51, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

And the liter is punier than both. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:45, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

A litre is bigger than either of the pints. 92.15.12.145 (talk) 01:12, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

... and this has already been discussed above. (It was the gallons that started different.) Dbfirs 10:36, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

DSLR problem: stain inside the prism assembly?

I noticed a weird stain, probably from steam, when looking through my DSLR's (Olympus E-520) viewfinder. It looks like it's actually inside the prism assembly. How could it have got there, and how can I get rid of it? JIP | Talk 13:05, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Unless your instruction manual says that it's just fine to open your camera up, I would recommend taking it to a camera shop (a real one, not a one-hour-photo kiosk) and see what they diagnose. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:17, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

It doesn't seem to be there any more. It was probably condensed steam, resulting from the camera having been out in the cold, and now it has evaporated. JIP | Talk 13:28, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Excellent. In my experience, anytime you have an electronic device out in extreme heat or cold, it's best to let it settle back to room temperature before attempting to use it. If it had not gone away, taking it to a camera shop would still be the best bet. Find someone that looks like they know what they're doing, and most likely they'll give you a quick (i.e. free) assessment of what's wrong, and then you can decide whether to fix it or buy a new one (as with the guy a few weeks ago whose color imaging was messed up.) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:31, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

I'm a little late to this discussion, but Baseball Bugs is right--I've photographed a fair bit in Greenland and Svalbard, and I'll usually let my camera warm and cool inside the camera bag to prevent it from warming/cooling too quickly, this can help with condensation, as can including a bit of desiccant such as silica gel in the camera bag. Don't know if the 520 is completely sealed, but it's also possible that the condensation was at the bottom (the glass of the prism nearest the SLR mirror), which won't be completely sealed on an SLR--that's a common place for photographers to see "spots" in their viewfinder that won't show up in their images. --j⚛e decker^talk 03:53, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

can we use sound energy & convert into power in mobile cellphone??

i asked this qustion because of i have doubt on einstin statement "ENERGY CAN'T BE CREATE CAN'T DESTORY" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Achal123 (talk • contribs) 15:14, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

What would cause you to doubt the veracity of not being able to destroy energy? Also, just because energy exists, doesn't mean that it can do work. Energy is never detroyed, but it is constantly being transferred from a state of usefulness to a state of uselessness. Concepts like entropy and free energy exist to explain this. See second law of thermodynamics for an explanation. --Jayron32 15:24, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Sound energy is converted into electricity in the phone, but very little electricity. That's why an amplifier is needed. APL (talk) 15:25, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

An example of such conversion would presumably be the old two-cups-and-a-string, which works OK over short distances but not so well otherwise. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:34, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

We of course have the articleSound-powered telephone. Such a telephone is good only for connection to up to two other phones. My experience with the US Army's TA-1 phones is that the quality is not that great. There certainly is not enough power for a cell phone. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 15:41, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Cup and string phones do not convert anything to electricity. They simply convert vibrations in air to vibrations in a string and back to vibrations in air. (Contrary to what you see in cartoons, the string needs to be pulled tight for this to work.) APL (talk) 15:57, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

No, not to electricity, just to a usable form of energy. And, yes, pulling the strings taut is part of the process. That would be another issue for long-distance transmission. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:02, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

The problem is that the amount of power available from even loud speaking is pretty miniscule. This page puts 80-decibel yelling at about 1 milliwatt (mW), and notes that using your voice you could warm up a cup of coffee (assuming, implausibly, no losses over the time) in about two years of constant shouting. Meanwhile, the power output of a typical cellular phone transmitter is in the neighborhood of 1 watt, or a thousand times as much. (That number doesn't include losses in the transmitter, as well as the significant power needed to illuminate the display and drive the processor in your smartphone.) TenOfAllTrades(talk) 15:54, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

That pretty conclusively makes it not a usable method for making phone calls directly, but charging the battery might be worthy of consideration. If you only talk on the phone about 1/1000th of the time (86.4 seconds a day), and assuming 100% efficiency in each step, that could provide enough energy. That's not much usage, so would probably only work for an emergency only phone in a loud area (like those on the side of the highway), where electricity lines are absent (solar power is another way to go). Alternatively, if this method could just extend the battery life a bit, that might still be useful. StuRat (talk) 18:59, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

You'd probably have better luck building a charger that absorbs energy from your movements as you walk around. Like a self-winding watch. Probably still not enough, though. APL (talk) 23:32, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Right, but that only works with a cell phone you carry, versus one tucked away somewhere for an emergency. StuRat (talk) 19:49, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

You might be able to make more of a dent in it if you could funnel the sound from a jet taking off. The downsize of that is that you'd have to take your cellphone to the airport to make it work. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:03, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

The "downsize" of it is when they fire you for loitering in the airport during working hours (unless you happen to be a member of a religion which hangs out at airports handing out flowers). :-) StuRat (talk) 18:51, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Oh, it's worse than that - you'd have to be on the tarmac near a plane when it revs up. So your second call would probably be the one you're allowed to make after being arrested. Nonetheless, I think my theory would work. Another drawback, though, is that the jet engine would be so loud you couldn't hear your other party and you would both have to shout... which, come to think of it, have you noticed how people shout on cellphones so that the entire store can hear them? Maybe that's the kind of sonic energy the OP is thinking of. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:12, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

It gets a little windy back there. Clarityfiend (talk) 00:11, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

There are clockwork radios and wind-up torches, and wind-up mobile phone chargers are readily available. 92.15.12.145 (talk) 00:45, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

For the umphteenth time, see Phonomotor, about a 19th century rotary machine powered by the human voice. The talk page includes a cite saying that it would require the voices of a million people to power a 60 watt lightbulb. So perhaps a 1 watt celphone could be powered by the voices of 1667 people, assuming 100% efficiency throughout. Quite an impractically large receiver would be needed. Nathan Stubblefield patented an acoustic telephone, akin to the "2 Dixie cups and a string," which functioned for over a mile. Edison (talk) 06:43, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

One important Q for whether a phone could be charged by sound, is if the charging rate would be faster than the losses from the battery (in a cell phone that's turned off). Can anyone do the math on this ? StuRat (talk) 19:52, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

I get that if you were able to capture the energy with near full efficiency you could get about a minute of use from a cell phone a day after having talked to it for twenty four hours, less if you don't talk in your sleep though snoring might help considerably. I think it would be very hard to capture the energy with any sort of reasonable efficiency though. Dmcq (talk) 11:17, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

touring in france by car west coast

what is the best guide to buy for family run small hotels. ' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.143.210.146 (talk) 18:14, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

I don't think that any comprehensive guide focuses on small, family-run hotels. They all list a range of accommodations. In my experience, the best place to learn about accommodations is this site. Just be sure to type your search into the top search window, which will bring you all listings for a given destination. The search window inside the more obvious box will just return places that pay the website for special promotion. Most listings include numerous reviews by guests, which often say something about the owners or management. If you prefer to purchase a printed guide, then you want one that lists a large number of accommodations at each destination, so that you can select from their list the places that are small. Your best strategy would be to buy regional guides focusing on the regions you plan to visit rather than a guide for all of France. Regional guides are published by Michelin, Rough Guides, and Lonely Planet. These more focused guides will have room for more listings for each destination than a national guide. It may be more difficult to know whether the places listed are family-run. You could always phone each place and ask. Marco polo (talk) 19:14, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Try www.logishotels.com. Logi hotels are mostly small friendly places.Froggie34 (talk) 09:00, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

Bank robberies

Note: I'm not an expert on financial things, so there might be errors in my assumptions and theories here. Assume there is a bank robbery, and the robbers (at least for the time being) get away with it. If the robbers had robbed a private person or a business, the situation would be simple: the robbers have more money, and their victims have less. But the bank doesn't actually own the cash it is storing - it is lending it from its customers, recording the value in their bank accounts. So if the robbers rob cash from the bank, the immediate effect is that the value actually exists twice - both in cash, and on the bank accounts. What happens now (assuming the robbers haven't been caught yet)? Could this somehow change the size of the money supply, and therefore the value of the currency? JIP | Talk 21:16, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

In terms of the money supply, it is no different to the bank lending money to someone. Doing so does, indeed, increase the money supply and that does cause inflation (that's why central banks can control inflation by changing interest rates - by lowering the rates, more loans are made so the money supply increases and the currency inflates, and vice versa). The vast majority of the money supply in a developed economy does not exist as physical coins and notes, it is just loans from one party to another. (Of course, the causes of inflation are far more complicated that just loans increasing the money supply, but that is a significant factor.) --Tango (talk) 21:26, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

I don't know much about the internal workings of banks, but I would expect they would have various kinds of insurance to cover unexpected losses. There might even be a process to do a quick electronic funds transfer to restore the amount that was taken. Hence the insurance company's assets would be reduced by the amount taken, netting to 0 increase in the money supply. Maybe for a very short time, your idea could be correct in theory, but I doubt it would be in a practical sense. And unless they stole billions of dollars, any such impact likely would be very small. As recent years show, the real impact is not from bank robbers of the conventional kind, but of the mega-robberies committed by financial game-players. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:31, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

In the case of a bank robbery, the 'victim' is the bank itself. The cash in the teller's drawer is drawn from the bank's own cash — or, more accurately, from the bank's reserve. The cash never exists 'twice'; the cash that the robbers have is deducted from the accounts of the bank. (Each country has its own rules about how much cash a bank needs to have on hand to meet the needs of account holders; it's usually quite a bit less than the total value of the accounts held. In the United States, for example, the reserve requirement on transactional accounts – like chequing accounts – is 10%; for every dollar deposited the bank can immediately lend out ninety cents. If the bank robbers steal a dollar, then it reduces the amount that the bank can lend by nine dollars. In principle, this could have the same effect as a bank run; in practice, banks operate with enough breathing room around the reserve requirement – and with enough of their reserves held in accounts with central banks – for this to be a practical impossibility.) TenOfAllTrades(talk) 22:15, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

"n the United States, for example, the reserve requirement on transactional accounts – like chequing accounts – is 10%; for every dollar deposited the bank can immediately lend out ninety cents. If the bank robbers steal a dollar, then it reduces the amount that the bank can lend by nine dollars." Shouldn't that be "ninety cents", if I've understood the math correctly? JIP | Talk 22:29, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

I think 9 dollars is correct. Put it this way: for every 10 dollars deposited, the bank can lend 9 dollars, with 1 held in cash. So if that 1 cash dollar is taken, the virtual 9 dollars become unavailable. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:49, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

(edit conflict) No, it's nine dollars. The dollar they stole was, in effect the 10% reserve of a ten-dollar deposit where the bank had lent out the other nine dollars already. So in theory, the bank would be required by law to either invest another dollar or contract its lending position by the quoted figure of nine dollars. I also agree with the main thrust of the points raised: the bank would incur a loss in just the same way as any other business. - Jarry1250 ^{[Who? Discuss.]} 22:51, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Wouldn't banks have insurance to cover robberies and the like? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:54, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Banks – and many large corporations – are much more likely to be self-insured against these sorts of costs. (In other words, they take the hit out of their own pocket.) Think about how insurance is priced — the insurer attempts to predict their average losses across their pool of insured clients, and then sets their rate based on the average anticipated payout plus a premium for their trouble. Insurance doesn't mean that money magically appears from nowhere; it's just a tool for spreading risk uniformly across a group. The bank already can do this — if they have a hundred branches, odds are only a few will get robbed in any given year, and the loss is spread over the entire company. It becomes a predictable cost of doing business, particularly as one averages over a larger number of branches or across multiple years.

Where insurance is necessary is against catastrophic losses which the bank is unable to absorb on its own. In most modern banking systems, banks must hold deposit insurance on behalf of their clients, which guarantees that even if the bank fails the depositors' cash is still going to be available. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 23:10, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Small quibble here, but I thought that the main reason the FBI was charged with handling the bank robberies was because the US government is responsible for insuring those losses, which is why robbing a bank is a federal crime, while robbing the 7-11 is a state crime. Googlemeister (talk) 16:24, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

Well, not quite. The FDIC doesn't insure against theft/robbery losses (except in the unlikely case that those losses render the bank insolvent, in which case FDIC protects account holders and not the bank itself). You're probably thinking of the Bank Robbery Act, which since 1934 has made all bank robberies a federal crime. For the purposes of the Act, an institution counts as a 'bank' if it is a member of the Federal Reserve System or it holds FDIC-insured deposits; either condition is sufficient. In principle, many banks do carry insurance against robbery under some form of 'banker's blanket bond' designed to protect against a wide variety of malfeasance and misfortune. In practice, the bonds usually have breathtakingly high deductibles (well into the tens of thousands of dollars for very small institutions, and ranging up into the tens of millions for big multinationals) and are designed to cushion losses in the event of a major disaster: vault burns to the ground, head office collapses, serious 'inside-job' embezzlement or theft, etc. The few thousands that a robber gleans in the classic 'empty-your-till-into-the-duffel-bag-before-the-cops-get-here' is way below the deductible. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 17:24, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

The Northern Bank robbery (which is a poor article) was one robbery that significantly altered the money supply, as the Northern Bank opted to reprint the currency. Also the Portuguese Bank Note Crisis had significant effect upon the Portuguese economy. meltBanana 16:55, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

There have been cases where thieves targeted old bank notes on their way to be destroyed. This presents a more interesting case as the money is in the possession of the central bank - the guys who print the money. If you managed to pull off such a theft undetected (e.g. replacing the bank notes with blank paper which got burned in it's place) then I guess your theft could end up increasing the money supply. filceolaire (talk) 22:58, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

December 31

I'd like to employ someone with superior googling skills to help me find this mystery article. :)

i once saw an article online that i am now in desperate search of. if anyone with better research skills than mine (i've already tried really hard) could help me to track it down i'd be super appreciateve. i believe it was a summary or review or some such of michael pollan's "in defense of food" and detailed the list of chemicals that could legally be reduced to "artificial flavoring" on the package of a british strawberry milkshake mix product. cheers! :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.9.248.197 (talk) 05:40, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

well until I get paid for my employment :p, I will only give you the the e-book: [2]

I couldn't find what you where talking about through a quick google search, and there is no 'find' tool to search through a google book as its merely scanned images. Passionless (talk) 06:58, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

For one article on the milkshake thing, google for The 59 Ingredients in a Fast Food Strawberry Milkshake. Not related to the book though. 88.112.59.31 (talk) 10:16, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

Passionless, you definitely can search through a book on Google, if the pages are available. Sometimes for really old books it doesn't work, and it tends not to work for non-English books, but otherwise they are searchable. (Pollan's book cannot even be previewed, unfortunately, so we can't search that, or at least I can't.) Adam Bishop (talk) 22:10, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

I think I found what you wanted, matches every detail...but wrong book. [3]...it's in Eric Schlosser's Fast Food Nation.

Oh, and I see now where their search function is...I was trying to just use my browser's, thanks, oh and I could see about 60% of the pages in the book, and search 100% of the pages just so you know. Passionless (talk) 05:38, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Speediest home bread machine

My home bread machine takes, at its fastest setting, two hours and thirty-five minutes to make a loaf of bread. Are there any home machines that are faster? Thanks 92.24.176.169 (talk) 19:05, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

Probably not. Bread takes time to make, and there are parts of the process which cannot be hurried. It takes a human something like 3-4 hours to make a loaf of bread, the machine is probably as optimized as it can be. this link contains a very basic recipe that would take 3 hours and 45 minutes from start to finish. There are steps, such as allowing the bread to rise, and "proofing", which is the process of allowing gluten formation, which simply cannot be hurried. If you add together mixing time, rising and proofing time, kneading time, and baking time, it just adds up. There are recipes for "quick bread", but these aren't really the same as yeast-risen bread, and you're going to get a very different product when you make quick bread. --Jayron32 03:07, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

I have a Breville "Ultimate Baker's Oven" model BB400 (which ironically, has been superseded by several later "Baker's Oven" models), which will cook a 500g or 750g (1, 1.5lb) "basic bread" (white) loaf in 1:59, on its "rapid" setting, using the same ingredients as normal. The result is definitely "bread", but it doesn't taste anywhere near as good as bread cooked on the normal settings, which takes 2:50 - 3:10 depending on how dark you like the crust. Mitch Ames (talk) 04:47, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure saving 36 minutes is worth exchanging bread for, as you put it "bread". If you need bread that fast, why not just buy it from the bakery? Homemade bread is divine, but like most things that are worth it, it cannot be hurried. --Jayron32 04:54, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Yup, what Jayron says. You don't need a faster bread machine, you need a slower lifestyle. AndyTheGrump (talk) 05:12, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Our Panasonic makes a loaf in one hour.--85.211.132.220 (talk) 08:11, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, I'm trying to avoid shop-bought bread as it has a lot of salt in it. On the other hand, I'd accept the sodium in the baking powder used with quick bread because it has the advantage that soda-bread has less acrylamide in it, a chemical scientists think likely to be a carcinogen. I am not fussy about the quality of the bread - anything bread- or roll-like will do. 92.15.14.57 (talk) 15:24, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

While tasty bread, either handmade or in a bread machine, does need a good few hours, it doesn't actually take many minutes of your day. One of the great things about yeast bakery is that you can mix the stuff up, then leave it unsupervised for hours on end, and it only needs a minute or so of kneading: you do need to supervise the baking to an extent. A bread machine can be loaded before you go to bed, and be set so that you wake up to a fresh, finished loaf, or set it before you go to work and come home to fresh bread. With only a little forward planning, you can have delicious, fresh-baked bread at the cost of very little time. 86.164.67.8 (talk) 16:04, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

I think anyone who's ever made any bread, machine or by hand, will already be aware of all that. 92.15.14.57 (talk) 18:02, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Then I struggle to see in what context you'd be planning to buy a machine to provide bread for yourself, regularly, and prioritise a baking time of less than a couple of hours. Unless you're eating so much bread that you've finished one loaf before the next had baked? Your question sounded like the sort of thing people ask when they have no experience of baking bread. A quickbread/soda bread is good, but requires you to move very quickly and have everything ready in place before you start, if you want it to rise well: if you have a large ovensafe bowl to upend over it, that will also help. What is the practical problem you are trying to solve? 86.162.68.52 (talk) 00:13, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

I'm always entertained by how people here invent firmly-believed notions about the questioner which have no basis in fact. Does not my question plainly say that I have a bread machine and know its cooking time, with the strong implication that I use it to bake bread? Are you an artist? 92.24.185.225 (talk) 13:31, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Yea, it's more normal to put the ingredients in way in advance and then set the timer so that it starts baking so that the bread is ready right before your meal.

I suppose the question asker might be looking for a way to 'stockpile' a week's worth of bread by baking a bunch on the weekend. APL (talk) 02:03, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

I only eat bread ocassionally. When I fancy some bread, I'd rather not have to wait three or four hours for it. Let me re-cap: I do not buy shop-bread because it has so much salt in it; and freshly baked hot bread is nicer than cold. 92.24.185.225 (talk) 12:39, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

In that case, do you have space in your freezer? You can freeze part-baked bread (cooked long enough that it's risen as far as it goes, but not crusty), then cook it when you want it hot. I've also had some success freezing risen, uncooked dough, but don't have enough experience to definitely recommend it. Or, as others said, soda bread, although there is more of an art to that. 86.162.68.52 (talk) 21:22, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

If you eat bread only occasionally, why do you worry about the salt? --Stephan Schulz (talk) 22:30, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

I think that would be practically impossible to do with a bread machine. There is a lot of salt in shop-bought bread - eating just a little would push my daily consumption over the 4g daily target RDA here in the UK, and certainly over the 2g or so that is believed to be optimal.

I'd be interested to read of any home machines that can do rolls in less than an hour, or any bread machines that can do soda-bread, as I think mine can only do yeast bread. Sorry, I do not have the patience to make the bread in an oven by hand - even weighing the flour and creating some tepid water is at the outer limits of my willpower. Thanks 92.15.31.128 (talk) 12:51, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Why would it be impossible with a bread machine? Stop it 10 minutes before it's finished baking (if there isn't a button for that, presumably switch it off at te wall), extract the loaf, let it cool completely, wrap it tightly in clingfilm or a sealed plastic bag with the air squeezed out. Place in freezer. When you have a craving for bread, heat your oven to 210°C (190°C for a fan oven), stick the loaf on an oven tray in the oven for, what, 15-20 minutes from frozen? Including time for oven to get up to temperature, you're eating hot, fresh bread 30 minutes after you got a craving. 86.164.58.246 (talk) 16:08, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

(obviously remove plastic before sticking in oven). I'd also note that salt actually slows the yeast down, so your salt-free bread should be rising more quickly. Whether you can get a bread machine to adjust for that, I don't know, but if you were baking it by hand that would significantly cut the time down. 86.164.58.246 (talk) 16:11, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

While I appreciate your trouble in thinking that through, that's a lot of extra work-time for a rather tacky frozen-not-fresh 1970s-style result. Besides which I do not have a freezer and do not like using the oven. 92.29.114.99 (talk) 21:05, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

I can assure you that the result is not tacky, but beautifully crisp, and tastes of lovely, freshly-baked bread. A much more tasty, more 'authenticly bread' result than is achieved by any process that takes less than 2 hours to mature the dough, and adds at most 5 minutes work-time. But if you have no freezer in this house-with-a-breadmaker, then you'll have to go with a more processed product. I don't know that you'll find a domestic breadmaker that replicates the Chorleywood process, but that's what you'll need for fast results. If you can bring yourself to press a button, you could try intensively mixing the dough in a food processor with a dough hook. I don't think you'll find a machine that makes decent soda bread. It really would be less effort to do this by hand, for what you want, since you could up the yeast and allow a shorter rise than the machine would. 86.163.214.50 (talk) 23:56, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

January 1

Text question-answering services

Why do services (can't remember the company's exact name) exist that, when sent a query by text message, answer the question within a minute, if this Reference desk can do the same thing for free!? The markup for a text message is insane, so why not be patient and use Wikipedia? The Reference desk is probably the most trustworthy page on the site, no offense. 75.73.225.224 (talk) 14:33, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Likely because 1. a lot of people don't know about the Ref Desk (it's not like we have an advertising budget), 2. time is a factor sometimes (e.g. if you are playing bar trivia), and 3. a lot of people are (incorrectly) more comfortable with the results of a "pay" site than a "volunteer" site, even though in this particular instance, there are factors which mean that the "volunteer" site probably is more reliable (there are more opinions than just one answerer; none of us are trying to cram as many questions in per hour as is possible; we are doing it because we find it interesting and fun, not because we're being paid minimum wage to do it; etc.). --Mr.98 (talk) 15:46, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

(e/c)Because they make money. Relatively few people know about this reference desk and answers rarely arrive within a minute here, if at all. That'll be $1 please.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 15:48, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

They may not actually make money. I suspect the margin of profit for such an enterprise is pretty low these days, when smart phones (that can just access the internet directly) are becoming extremely common. --Mr.98 (talk) 01:05, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Not everyone have internet access 24/7 (wifi/data plan/what have you), but a lot of people have 24/7 cell phone services. Royor (talk) 20:22, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Check the small print of that answer service when you remember it. It may be just mirroring Wikipedia. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 21:30, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

That's very unlikely, although some might use something like trueknowledge which sourced a lot of its info from WP. (A list of services can be found here by the way). SmartSE (talk) 21:58, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Can anyone explain what's on the TV in this picture?

I was flipping through the Times photos of the week, and was wondering about the picture on the TV in the background. Does anyone know what it's about? It looks like a soldier dressed in furs, but standing in the desert. Is it an ad? Here's the link to the page:

http://www.time.com/time/picturesoftheweek/0,29409,2040239_2222682,00.html Snorgle (talk) 18:50, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

He's wearing a Ghillie suit. Dismas|^(talk) 18:58, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Ah, well that explains about the suit! He must be a sniper then. Anyone else know what he's advertising? Is it to encourage people to join up? Snorgle (talk) 20:27, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

From the context (green headbands with Arabic script), it looks like a Hamas press conference, and perhaps they are publicizing their ability to use snipers to murder Israeli civilians. (Looking at the caption, it confirms that it's Hamas.) StuRat (talk) 23:32, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

There are a number of press reports of the 25/12/2010 press conference pictured - such as this. --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:44, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

The text on the banner behind the guy to the left reads "Conference of the Martyr Izzuddin Qassam Brigades 25/12/2010" --Soman (talk) 16:09, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Right, and that's the military wing of Hamas. (Is there a peaceful, rather zen-like wing ?) StuRat (talk) 22:12, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

There's a political wing, which is why it's necessary to make the distinction. Buddy431 (talk) 03:35, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

January 2

Jets/Giants

Can anyone give me a good breakdown of which areas of New York City/New York state/New Jersey tend towards the Giants, and which towards the Jets? A few observations I've made on my own:

• Giants fans are more numerous almost everywhere.
• Giants fans also tend to root for the Yankees (baseball) and Rangers (hockey). Jets fans tend to root for the Mets (baseball) and Islanders (hockey).
• At one point, the Giants and Jets played in different parts of the city, which might have affected loyalties at one time. They no longer do, but some of the old loyalties might be in place.

Thoughts? Magog the Ogre (talk) 03:31, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

I believe your breakdown is roughly correct. Jets fans tend to be concentrated on Long Island and Queens; the Jets once played at Shea Stadium and for a very long time the practiced and had their official headquarters at Hofstra University on Long Island. --Jayron32 03:44, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Pardon my ignorance, but Queens is on Long Island. I know little of NYC culture, so speak to me as to an idiot. Magog the Ogre (talk) 03:49, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

The Wall Street Journal recently did a survey of Jets and Giants fans. While the Giants have more fans in New York, Jets fans tend to be older, wealthier and less liberal. This probably reflects how the Jets used to play out in Flushing and thus had a fan base in the suburbs of Long Island and adjacent eastern Queens. ("Long Island" generally refers to the suburbs of Nassau and Suffolk counties and not to the geographic Long Island, which includes Brooklyn and Queens.) The Giants used to play at the Polo Grounds and then Yankee Stadium, so they have a strong fan base in Manhattan, Brooklyn and the Bronx. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 04:30, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Hat type

What is the name of this style of cap? Thanks. LANTZY^TALK 09:29, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Karakul. ---Sluzzelin talk 09:36, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

That was fast. Thanks, Sluzzelin. LANTZY^TALK 10:21, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Resolved

StuRat (talk) 22:08, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Ref desk meta-question

Shouldn't we add to the rules of the page for innocent readers the implicit policy that any comment given in small text is meant tongue-in-cheek? Not everyone knows that. Finalius (Say what?) 16:00, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

In general, discussions about the Reference Desk's management should take place on its talk page: Wikipedia talk:Reference desk (shortcut WT:RD). In brief, though, anyone who doesn't immediately 'get' that the change in formatting denotes a tongue-in-cheek remark probably isn't the sort to read through the instructions at the top of the page, and definitely isn't the sort of person who will follow the links there back to our detailed guidelines pages. There are an awful lot of different discussion conventions that we don't mention or discuss in detail at the top of the page: indenting, formatting, use of ALL CAPS, how to link to pages and images, etc.; I'm not sure that this one would be the one I'd add an explanation for. That said, if you feel that there are editors who are making this page too confusing or distracting to its users by taking us off on a lot of irrelevant semi-humorous tangents, then you should definitely bring the matter up with them on their own talk pages (or ask for the assistance of other Ref Desk editors on WT:RD.) TenOfAllTrades(talk) 16:39, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure that's true that people who don't "get" the change in formatting are people who aren't paying attention. Many people may be well meaning, but not internet-savy people. Such people may assume a level of professionalism (This is the Reference Desk provided as a public service by The World's Largest Encyclopedia, after all.) and not catch the meaning of the change in formatting. Especially as some of the "jokes" are almost-plausible sarcastic suggestions.

I also wonder how the small text renders on screen-readers and other unusual browsers. APL (talk) 18:34, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

The "rules" list is almost certainly read by almost nobody. It's a nice thing to be able to point to when someone does something wrong, but other than that, I wouldn't put much faith in its educating ability. --Mr.98 (talk) 19:32, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

I use small text a bit differently, for any comment that's not an answer to the Q (and not designed to help get to the answer). Jokes could qualify, but some jokes are actually answers, as well. However, for the most part, I do put jokes in small text, for those find my tiny bits and pieces amusing. StuRat (talk) 22:07, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

(Catholic Saints)

How did Saint Kilian Die? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.52.118.18 (talk) 16:42, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

He lost his head. See Saint Kilian. --Tagishsimon (talk) 18:22, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

More precisely, his head was forcibly removed from the rest of his body. -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 00:20, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Garlic Paste Problem

Hi guys. I'm a bit of a funny eater - I'm always looking for that next extreme taste hit, and so go through intense phrases where I binge on strongly flavoured foods - blue cheese one week, pomegranate molasses the next, fresh chilis the one after. Now, the problem is that I've recently started to consume large quantities of those tubes of garlic paste - basically pureed garlics, and I can't get enough of them. My wife, however, objects, and it definately seems to impede our attempts to make out. I've tried brushing my teeth until my gums bleed, but that won't work. Does anyone have any tips so I can keep eating mountains of garlic paste whilst keeping my marriage on the track? Great Green Gourd (talk) 19:39, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Persuade your wife to eat it too. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 20:09, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Chew vast amounts of parsley afterwards. --TammyMoet (talk) 20:24, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Hay Bro... an' listen here. Women are more subtle than that. Forget trying to mitigated the garlic. Yeah, really! She is say whats next? ... So... Yummy mummy!! Take a looker here: [4]. Also, a pinch of Ammonium chloride for seasoning, adds a little je ne sais quoi. Enjoy! --Aspro (talk) 20:26, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Fortunately, Wikipedia has an article on Stink Heads. All of a sudden I have an urge to explore my fridge again! Boy; am I going to have to stick to my new year's resolution to diet.--Aspro (talk) 20:34, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

In all seriousness, the only thing that will work is if your wife eats garlic too. Nothing you can do will supress the smell of garlic, which will be coming out of your pores as well as your mouth. If she eats garlic when you do, she will also have the smell and will find it less overpowering from you. 86.162.68.52 (talk) 21:12, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

And the smell coming out of your mouth is not because of tiny bits of garlic stuck to your teeth that you could just brush away. (Well, that could also be it, but you say you brushed) it's coming from the blood vessels in your lungs. (Alcohol does the same thing. This is why no amount of brushing will fool a sobriety test.)

Consider skipping on to your next food fad. Or even going back to blue cheese. That's worth a second go. (especially melted over a bacon sandwich!) APL (talk) 22:19, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

From the WP garlic article "Due to its strong odor, garlic is sometimes called the "stinking rose". When eaten in quantity, garlic may be strongly evident in the diner's sweat and breath the following day. This is because garlic's strong-smelling sulfur compounds are metabolized, forming allyl methyl sulfide. Allyl methyl sulfide (AMS) cannot be digested and is passed into the blood. It is carried to the lungs and the skin, where it is excreted. Since digestion takes several hours, and release of AMS several hours more, the effect of eating garlic may be present for a long time. I concur with APL. You need a toothbrush with a much longer handle. The unholy smell, to a lesser extent, also comes out in your sweat. Hmm, what price your marriage? Richard Avery (talk) 08:22, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

The sense of smell is apparently very important to sexual attraction and response. Some people find the smell of garlic on a person unobjectionable or even appealing, but apparently your wife is not one of these people. I agree that if you value the relationship, you will want to cut back on the garlic. Marco polo (talk) 16:47, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

January 3

How does this quadruple-amputee do the required rituals in life?

Watch from 15:10 of the 59:31 video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Crga3tjF5bQ&list=QL&playnext=17

He has no arms and legs.

How does he brush his teeth? I saw his teeth, and it looks GREAT. It's white, and appears to be well taken care of.

How does he feed himself?

Most of all, how does he wipe?

The last question might be morbid, but I really, really need to know here because I hate to make people uncomfortable by asking them this in real life.

That's why I must use the anonymity of my IP address (which changes every few days here, where I'm home for the holidays), so that there is no mutual discomfort between myself and the users here.

Thanks in advance! --68.95.73.128 (talk) 03:08, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Maybe he has people who help him perform these tasks? --Jayron32 03:23, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Many disabled people have others to help them perform the tasks "normal" people can manage for themselves. Heck, I'm (relatively) normal, and I have a mechanic who maintains my car, because I cannot. I depend on utility providers to take away my sewerage and bring me water. We all depend on others to different degrees. HiLo48 (talk) 03:45, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Helper animals are quite common, and for this case a helper monkey would be indicated, which possesses the intelligence and dexterity to perform those type of tasks. StuRat (talk) 05:06, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

A monkey would help wipe? Besides, since I think the last time we needed help wiping was in preschool, I'd feel epicly humiliated from needing help wiping later in my life. (At least I have my BioBidet/bidet seat/washlet. I'd rather have a machine help me than another warm body.) --65.64.191.135 (talk) 06:38, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Here in the UK, and I suspect many other countries in the world, we have a care system which includes 24 hour care for people who need it. It is often paid for by the National Health Service but not exclusively. It is very likely that this person has a similar arrangement. So you "really, really have to know" so that you don't make the person uncomfortable? No, it is you that feels uncomfortable asking about something that is actually none of your business! Richard Avery (talk) 08:15, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Nick Vujicic was born limbless so he is not an amputee. That see this article is an extreme example of the kind of birth defect that occurred when mothers took Thalidomide during pregnancy. The OP should get to know some disabled people and thereby find out that they all have names, many are more resourceful than one would expect, and they need human assistance in ways that vary with each case and should be obvious, You do not help anyone asking your personal questions covertly. BION Shit happens, that it does so is healthy not "morbid", and even uncomfortable IP users likely filled these at some time for someone else to remove. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 17:35, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Arachnology

I have a Collins field guidem to Spiders of the UK and northern Europe, but it is not what I need I am looking for a comprehensive spider guide with as many colour plates as posible for identification, my criteria is specifically for as many colour pictures for identification of as many spiders as possible, any sugestions please? Thx —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.2.26.146 (talk) 15:30, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Are you still concentrating on the UK, or are you looking for a guide covering a larger region? Googlemeister (talk) 20:35, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Song Sample

What song is sampled that the beginning of this song? I'm not talking about the electronic breakdown at the very first, but the rhythmic (violin?) sound right before he begins rapping and then throughout the entire song. I've heard it before, but I just cannot remember it. I hate to ask this here, but it's driving me nuts. link to song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhIsdykpML4 72.173.160.50 (talk) 15:40, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Skimming foam from lentils

When boiling lentils some foam often appears on top of the water. Many cookbooks advise skimming and discarding this foam, but rarely give any reason for doing so. I'm wondering if there's any legitimate reason for this skimming and discarding of lentil foam? I've run across one claim that removing the foam will reduce the gas-causing constituents in the lentils, but I wonder if that's really true or if it's just an old wives' tale. Anyone here know the facts? -- noosphere 22:06, 3 January 2011 (UTC)