User talk:Doncram

(e) as of Dec2010 as of Dec2014

NRHPHELP Tools

Thanks for your comments and especially your mention of the Elkman NRHP infobox generator (I learned something new). My work, meager as it is, will benefit greatly from your suggestions.Tamanoeconomico (talk) 13:59, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

Good, glad my comment to your Talk page and my recent addition of some tips about working with multiple windows to the wp:NRHPHELP page have seemed helpful. I am really glad you've been contributing photos and developing articles on NRHPs in Idaho! --Doncram (talk) 04:33, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

Notable subjects

Is there a list of redlinked notable buildings and architect article subjects somewhere? I don't see much point in adding a bunch more drafts but if there is a list somewhere I'd be happy to add to it with a brief explanation of significance. Thanks FloridaArmy (talk) 23:48, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

User:FloridaArmy, I'm not sure where you are coming from on that. I mostly spend my Wikipedia time developing articles on NRHP-listed places, which are all indexed from List of RHPs (a shortcut to nation-wide list) which links to List of RHPs in KY etc. (state-level lists) which go to county or lower levels. There are editors who keep these lists updated. Per wp:NRHPPROGRESS (a Wikiproject tracking list, which also indexes them all), there are 92,000 or so NRHPs, of which 66,000 have articles, the rest are redlinks in this system. I/we generally presume that NRHP-listed means notable, because we know the standards of documentation and review for NRHP listing are higher than Wikipedia's standards for an article.

I see you recently worked on an article, which "what links here" shows is indexed on List of historic landmarks in Albuquerque, New Mexico. That is some other list, not part of NRHP list-system. I don't know if those should automatically be assumed notable. I have also myself developed a bunch of non-NRHP list-articles, or ones that have both NRHP and non-NRHP places, e.g. List of Presbyterian churches, where the notability of non-NRHP ones hopefully is established by references included into the list-article.

It can be a good contribution to add an item, with your sources, to a list-article, instead of, or in addition to, creating an article about the individual item. (Working with lists is good, IMO, should almost be required, i.e. we shouldn't be creating isolated/orphan-type articles out of context without working from a list, IMO.) Is that what you mean? You probably don't know about any NRHPs which are not yet included in the NRHP list-article system, because it is really pretty comprehensive and well-maintained (tho not perfect), but you probably can add to lots of others lists.

Does this respond to what you mean? --Doncram (talk) 04:30, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

Great. Thanks. Some good ideas. I know dosambig pages don't allow cites but your mention that a list page does is helpful. FloridaArmy (talk) 14:04, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

Okay, good. By the way there are some editors in Wisconsin who choose to develop short descriptions with cites in the Wisconsin NRHP county list-articles without starting the articles, i.e. leaving them as redlinks. I like that, their developing the list-articles and providing some coverage about all items, rather than the more common practice of editors starting the articles but not putting any description back in the list-article. My own practice is somewhere inbetween; i develop items within list-articles sometimes. --Doncram (talk) 16:12, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

Pantiago Windmill

Hey, I've been adding to the monuments on commons and found that many NRHP sites are not listed. The East Hampton village green, which includes James lane, has the Mulford Homestead museum and the home sweet home museum, Ref 74001309. Its been a slog sorting out the windmills so I went there and tried to photograph as many as I could. Some are behind fences with dogs. Anyhoo, the Pantigo was for 72 years at Pantigo rd (montauk Hwy) and Egypt lane, before it was moved in 1917 to the backyard of the Homesweethome museum, a landmarked site on the NRHP. Googlemaps has it at the bottom of windmill lane, but thats the Hayground.Watch the articles, the lists need updating, the Huntting, pantigo, Mulford farm windmills are all the same smock mill, just the dates of the moves indicates who owned it....CaptJayRuffins (talk) 23:38, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

This is about new article Pantigo windmill (Easthampton, New York), which appears to be a contributing structure, probably, in East Hampton Village District. I posted at User talk:CaptJayRuffins#Pantigo Windmill which I will watch, and where I would be happy for this whole discussion to continue. I'd generally rather not split the discussion. Either way, I am glad you are contributing and I do think there is much to improve in that area. --Doncram (talk) 23:43, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, don't know if you were still watching, I could use some help cleaning up Quogue Historic District... CaptJayRuffins (talk) 01:40, 2 October 2018 (UTC)

Have your say!

Hi everyone, just a quick reminder that voting for the WikiProject Military history coordinator election closes soon. You only have a day or so left to have your say about who should make up the coordination team for the next year. If you have already voted, thanks for participating! If you haven't and would like to, vote here before 23:59 UTC on 28 September. Thanks, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 03:29, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

Clay Faulkner House

A minor point, but the question and your response are at the Help desk not the teahouse.--S Philbrick(Talk) 20:07, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

Ah, thanks, and i just followed up there. This is about Wikipedia:Help_desk#Clay_Faulkner_House and about stuff going on at Clay Faulkner House, and hopefully its Talk page Talk:Clay Faulkner House. Thank you for your kind remarks there. :) --Doncram (talk) 20:32, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

List of fire stations of historical significance in the United States

You have blanked our page without explanantion. Xx236 (talk) 06:38, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

Michigan fire station articles

No prob; I do want to finish Genesee County first (got six or so articles left, so I don't want to delay the satisfaction of checking it off). I'll jump on the Kzoo fire stations right after. Week or two, maybe? Andrew Jameson (talk) 10:43, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

Alamogordo Woman's Club

Would you be so kind as to cast your eye on Alamogordo Woman's Club and make any edits you see fit? Thanks! WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 19:22, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for your welcome!

Hi Doncram, thank you for your warm welcome and for your many positive contributions to the encyclopedia! Free culture is a wonderful thing and I love Wikipedia's coverage of historic sites. Thanks for your many many contributions.

Thanks for your offer to help. As a new editor, right now I'm working on the Draft:Robert S. Munger page, but longer term, I see myself making edits relating to financial crises, financial regulation, and finance in general. The coverage in these areas can be good but is not always so great. Public information about the institutional details of finance in general can be spotty, though.

I've never worked on getting a new page added before, so any help you could offer on the Munger page would be greatly appreciated!

Currently I'm just adding more sources and information to the Munger page. For example, Munger was recently added to the Alabama Men's Hall of Fame, so I added that in the "Other" section you created. I'm also hoping to add a "See Also" section to link to the other Wikipedia pages that mention him. --Eisbetterthanpi (talk) 20:10, 8 October 2018 (UTC)

Nice job on NRHP too

Thank you for the message and thank you too for all your work on the NRHP articles for expanding, creating, and defending many great articles. Swampyank (talk) 11:19, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

ArbCom 2018 election voter message

Hello, Doncram. Voting in the 2018 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 3 December. All users who registered an account before Sunday, 28 October 2018, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Thursday, 1 November 2018 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2018 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:42, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

Dawson Woman's Club

Did you ever find out about the movements and address changes of Dawson Woman's Club? Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 04:19, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

User:Bubba73, I didn't hear back. I only tried calling the one time i mentioned at Talk:Dawson Woman's Club#moved, twice?, when I was on top of all the info available, but now it is all fading for me. Feel free to call yourself, and/or to email to the address you had found and mentioned at User talk:Bubba73#Dawson Woman's Clubhouse. --Doncram (talk) 04:32, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

National Register of Historic Places listings in Ada County, Idaho

Hi Doncram, A new page, Boise Capitol Area District, (meager as it is) at National Register of Historic Places listings in Ada County, Idaho redirects from there to Idaho State Capitol. Can you remove the redirect or advise on how to request it? Good fortunes, Tamanoeconomico (talk) 03:57, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

Sure, done just now by this edit. When there is parenthetical disambiguation the "name" vs. "article" distinction is helpful, e.g. "|article=" row could point to where an article is (e.g. "|article=George Smith House (Tuscaloosa, Louisiana)"), and the "|name=" row could give the name of the NRHP listing to display in the table (e.g. "|name=George Smith House"). I don't think the article field should have been used before to link to the state capitol building, it should have been showing a redlink for "Boise Capitol Area District" instead, in my opinion. Thank you for starting the article, User:Tamanoeconomico! --Doncram (talk) 04:25, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, makes perfect sense now that you have explained it.Tamanoeconomico (talk) 04:49, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

Courthouse titles

Let me be clear: your insistence on an unusual idea does not make a controversy, and when you start insisting that everyone follow your own idea ("no moves"), you've crossed into WP:OWN territory. The discussion has already begun at WP:ANI. Nyttend (talk) 03:47, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Barnstar of Diplomacy
	Thank you for your clarification at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shannon Staub Library. Magnolia677 (talk) 09:50, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

Nominations now open for "Military historian of the year" and "Military history newcomer of the year" awards

Nominations for our annual Military historian of the year and Military history newcomer of the year awards are open until 23:59 (GMT) on 15 December 2018. Why don't you nominate the editors who you believe have made a real difference to the project in 2018? MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 02:26, 3 December 2018 (UTC)

William H. Taft Mansion

Greetings! I made a start on William H. Taft Mansion, was wondering if it is of any importance to NHRP? Hope all is well with you. Markvs88 (talk) 21:32, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

Hi Markvs88, nice to hear from you. Interesting new article! I think a NRHP infobox could/should be added identifying it as a contributing building in the Orange Street Historic District. I worked on NRHP articles in New Haven a long time ago. 111 Whitney, which your article says is the Taft mansion, would be located in a big (>500 contributing buildings) historic district named for Orange Street, which you will know is a parallel street. Specifically, 93 through 135 Whitney Avenue, on the east side of the street only, are included in the district. The NRHP document, Dorothea Penar; J. Paul Loether; John Herzan (February 27, 1985). "National Register of Historic Places Inventory-Nomination: Orange Street Historic District". National Park Service. {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |last-author-amp= ignored (|name-list-style= suggested) (help), provides an inventory of buildings in the district which I think is supposed to be complete, but it doesn't specifically mention 111 Whitney. On its page 68 in the PDF document it covers 107 Whitney, a non-contributing building, then covers 113 Whitney presumably next door, so I wonder if 113 is the William H. Taft Mansion. 113 is described as "Built: ca. 1870. 2-story Second Empire-style masonry house with mansard roof, bracketed main cornice, central facade pavilion." I browsed the Accompanying 34 photos, from 1984 and 1985 but it does not cover any houses on Whitney. Hmm, Google street view shows the house is signed as the "William H. Taft Mansion", and I can see that the house indeed is Second Empire architecture in style and otherwise meets that description in all respects. So I am satisfied it is the house covered in the NRHP document as 113. The Google streetview also shows the house has "Ivy Labs Education" signage, and then I find per this webpage on the New Haven office that the house does seem to be numbered 111 now. If you want, please add about this to the article, and/or I will sometime later. cheers, --Doncram (talk) 22:32, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

That's great stuff Doncram, and you should get credit for your research. Please update the article at your leisure, I'm sure you'd handle the material better than I am I'm happy for the collaboration! Also, if you're able/interested, there's a new photo contest at the WikiProject Connecticut. Markvs88 (talk) 01:48, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

Draft:Friedrich Ferdinand Schnitzer

Greetings. I am having a tough time finding much coverage of this fellow. His dad and son have the same name but don't seem to have been especially notable. Any ideas? FloridaArmy (talk) 18:34, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

NPR Newsletter No.16 15 December 2018

Hello Doncram,

Reviewer of the Year

This year's award for the Reviewer of the Year goes to Onel5969. Around on Wikipedia since 2011, their staggering number of 26,554 reviews over the past twelve months makes them, together with an additional total of 275,285 edits, one of Wikipedia's most prolific users.

Thanks are also extended for their work to JTtheOG (15,059 reviews), Boleyn (12,760 reviews), Cwmhiraeth (9,001 reviews), Semmendinger (8,440 reviews), PRehse (8,092 reviews), Arthistorian1977 (5,306 reviews), Abishe (4,153 reviews), Barkeep49 (4,016 reviews), and Elmidae (3,615 reviews).
Cwmhiraeth, Semmendinger, Barkeep49, and Elmidae have been New Page Reviewers for less than a year — Barkeep49 for only seven months, while Boleyn, with an edit count of 250,000 since she joined Wikipedia in 2008, has been a bastion of New Page Patrol for many years.

See also the list of top 100 reviewers.

Less good news, and an appeal for some help

The backlog is now approaching 5,000, and still rising. There are around 640 holders of the NPR flag, most of whom appear to be inactive. The 10% of the reviewers who do 90% of the work could do with some support especially as some of them are now taking a well deserved break.

Really good news - NPR wins the Community Wishlist Survey 2019

At #1 position, the Community Wishlist poll closed on 3 December with a resounding success for NPP, reminding the WMF and the volunteer communities just how critical NPP is to maintaining a clean encyclopedia and the need for improved tools to do it. A big 'thank you' to everyone who supported the NPP proposals. See the results.

Training video

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MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 21:14, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

Voting now open for "Military historian of the year" and "Military history newcomer of the year" awards

Voting for our annual Military historian of the year and Military history newcomer of the year awards is open until 23:59 (GMT) on 30 December 2018. Why don't you vote for the editors who you believe have made a real difference to Wikipedia's coverage of military history in 2018? MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 02:17, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

Nomination of WikiProject Western Australia for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article WikiProject Western Australia is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/WikiProject Western Australia until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Doctor Whooves (talk • contribs) 17:36, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

NRHP architect

Hello. You may be interested in another NRHP architect, H. Clinton Parrent Jr.. By the way, I pinged you about Aspen Grove, not sure if you saw it...Zigzig20s (talk) 11:34, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

Article merge

The consensus at Bank of American Fork (financial institution) is merge if you would like to complete this. Otr500 (talk) 19:40, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

Thank you ...

... for helping to keep Zu den heiligen Engeln! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:02, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

Greetings and Salutations

To Doncram:

Hello!

Congratulations!

You have been included in my first, and possibly only, Very Early Christmas List!

As an earnest fellow believer in Santa Claus, and possibly in Our Redeemer Liveth as well, you may wonder how you got on this list.

I have no idea!

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Unless I tracked down the connection in our user talk archives, in which case you know who you are!

Or not.

All the best for you and yours this Christmas 2018 and New Year 2019!

– Athaenara jingles all the way 02:48, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

WikiProject X Newsletter • Issue 13

Newsletter • December 2018

This month: A general update.

The current status of the project is as follows:

• Progress of the project has been generally delayed since September due to development issues (more bitrot than expected, some of the code just being genuinely confusing, etc) and personal injury (I suffered a concussion in October and was out of commission for almost two months as a result).
• I currently expect to be putting out a proper call for CollaborationKit pilots in January/February, with estimated deployment in February/March if things don't go horribly wrong (they will, though, don't worry). As a part of that, I will properly update the page and send out announcement and reach out to all projects already signed up as pilots for WikiProject X in general, at which point those (still) interested can volunteer specifically to test the CollaborationKit extension.
  • Wikipedia:WikiProject X/Pilots was originally created for the first WikiProject X prototype, and given this is where the project has since gone, it's only logical to continue to use it. While I haven't yet updated the page to properly reflect this:
  • If you want to add your project to this page now, feel free. Just bear in mind that more information what to actually expect will be added later/included in the announcement, because by then I will have a much better idea myself.
• Until then, you can find me in my corner working on making the CollaborationKit code do what we want and not just what we told it, per the workboard.

Until next time,

-— Isarra ༆ 22:44, 20 December 2018 (UTC)

WP:NPA

Please consider removing (that means deleting, not striking) your personal attack at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ludington House immediately. Station1 (talk) 03:14, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

I don't agree with your assertion that my comment, including informal question "what are you smoking" to you which I think almost every reader would understand is meant in a friendly way, was a personal attack. Whatever, though, i deleted a sentence or two at the AFD, still ongoing. Do you mind if I say here, User:Station1, that I do mean it in a friendly way, that I don't understand why you, whom i respect as an experienced Wikipedia editor familiar with disambiguation policy and practices, that I really really do not understand you voting Delete in that AFD. It is just a disambiguation meant to help readers find there way, amongst 4 or more legitimate possibilities that they might be looking for. Cheers, --Doncram (talk) 04:36, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

Aspen Grove

I pinged you on a talkpage about Aspen Grove, but I can no longer find it. Do you know where it is please? It's about an article you created about a house in Williamson County, TN. We may have the picture but we need to make sure it is the same house.Zigzig20s (talk) 14:59, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:DYKissues

Template:DYKissues has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. SD0001 (talk) 18:15, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2019!

Hello Doncram, may you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this seasonal occasion. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Sending you a heartfelt and warm greetings for Christmas and New Year 2019. Happy editing, Atlantic306 (talk) 20:52, 24 December 2018 (UTC) Spread the love by adding {{subst:Seasonal Greetings}} to other user talk pages.

Leland College

@Doncram: noticing you started the article, I was wondering if an image like this would be suitable to give an idea of how it looked, Maybe you find there are images that are more suitable. Thank you for your time. Lotje (talk) 12:23, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

Best wishes for a happy 2019

^{The Hill Country (c.1913) by Walter Elmer Schofield, Woodmere Art Museum.}
Thank you for your contributions toward making Wikipedia a better and more accurate place.
BoringHistoryGuy (talk) 16:38, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

Invitation to join WikiProject Brands

	Hello, Doncram. You are invited to join WikiProject Brands, a WikiProject and resource dedicated to improving Wikipedia's coverage of brands and brand-related topics. To join the project, just add your name to the member list. North America1000 20:21, 4 January 2019 (UTC)

Off-wiki

Could this be the off-wiki version of our NRHP-related work?Zigzig20s (talk) 09:37, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

Two monuments

The Sons of San Patricio Monument and the San Patricio de Hibernia Monument were both built in 1937. Are you sure they are two separate monuments?Zigzig20s (talk) 18:14, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

Forget it, they look similar but if you look more closely, they are different. We are lucky to have pictures now! You created both articles in May and the pictures were uploaded on Commons in August.Zigzig20s (talk) 18:33, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

Photos replaced

This edit replaced your photo of Mayer Red Brick Schoolhouse with one that is clearly inferior due to poor lighting. It also replaced two photos I took. I don't want to revert because my photos are involved also. But yours should clearly go back. MB 00:45, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

Dubois Historic District

Hi, I've come across the dab page Dubois Historic District. One of the two redlink entries is about an article that has now been created: DuBois Historic District. The other one, however, links to a list article which doesn't seem to mention any places with this name. With apparently only a single article that's known by this term, I thought it would be best to turn the dab page into a redirect to it. But then, there might be something I'm missing. – Uanfala (talk) 02:55, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for noting the issue. I just tried fixing the situation. There should clearly be a disambiguation page that links to both the existing Pennsylvania article and to the redlink for the Idaho(?) historic district too. Neither of the historic districts is widely known or otherwise deserves "primary" designation. After a few mistakes in moves, i think it is okay now. --Doncram (talk) 03:04, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for taking care of the article titles. I'm still a tiny bit concerned that the other entry links to National Register of Historic Places listings in Bingham County, Idaho, which doesn't seem to have any content about a Dubois Historic District in that county. – Uanfala (talk) 03:21, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Hmm, good point. Okay quickly looking into it there was a Dubois Historic District proposed or actually formally listed there (Location: Roughly bounded by E. Main, Court, S. Shilling, and Bingham Sts., Blackfoot, Idaho), with NRIS indicating its status change date was October 4, 1982. Reference number is 82005189. However it may not be currently listed, the 2013a NRIS status was code "DR" (and I am not sure what that means). So maybe its listing was not completed or it was later delisted. This requires research, i.e. an email inquiry to the National Park Service to request the documentation for it, to sort out what happened. And/or inquiry to Idaho state historical office. Leading to addition of an entry onto that Bingham County, Idaho page as a formerly listed historic district, perhaps, if it is not a current one. Okay, consider it to be on my to do list. I doubt the National Park Service will answer promptly about it though. --Doncram (talk) 05:00, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

This Idaho state list from 1997 does not mention it. --Doncram (talk) 05:06, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

There is 1983-listed Shilling Avenue Historic District (currently a redlink) which covers "Shilling Ave. between E. Idaho and Bingham Sts. And Bridge and Judicial Sts. To Stout Ave., Blackfoot". Based on looking on Google maps that would include Shilling between Bingham and Court, i.e. part or all of the Dubois HD's area, so that might have subsumed it. --Doncram (talk) 05:17, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Okay, started the Shilling Ave HD article. Its NRHP document at one point speaks of the Dubois Historic District, as if that is the name of the district. Maybe it was the name planned for it, and the document was not updated completely to take that out. The district does include the Fred T. Dubois House (1891), 320 East Main, home of U.S. Senator Fred T. Dubois ("National Register of Historic Places Inventory/Nomination: Shilling Avenue Historic District / 0710791653". National Park Service. Retrieved January 29, 2019. With accompanying 20 photos from 1978 and 1983). Maybe this is leading towards Dubois Historic District for Idaho redirecting to this Shilling Ave HD article. There is also a Dubois, Idaho in a different county. --Doncram (talk) 05:35, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Default setting for marking edits as minor

I recall you raising this at an editor's Talk page (March 2015). I chanced upon this Talk page section from 2011 and thought you may be interested in the content. rgds.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 18:36, 30 January 2019 (UTC)

Thanks, User:Rocknrollmancer, I do recall that, and I appreciate the info. Hmm, i think i should use that now, meaning I guess take on the issue with that editor about their numerous small edits, but maybe not directly, maybe I could/should find someone else to address it. --Doncram (talk) 11:48, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

William Redding House

Not sure if you can expand the William Redding House? I tried to find his obituary on Newspapers.com, to no avail. There may be books about New Mexico pioneers on the Internet Archive though!Zigzig20s (talk) 11:02, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

Hi, User:Zigzig20s, I just added a bit from the NRHP nomination. Glad to see you developing NM NRHP articles. We are very extremely close to rolling NM's percentage articled over 40, at wp:NRHPPROGRESS (which I will update soon). Also many NM counties will change colors when the maps get updated next (which I probably won't do now). --Doncram (talk) 11:20, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

I don't know if this can be done, but it would be very useful to see the names of the counties on the map. And ideally for NRHP maps, to be able to click and be taken directly to the list for each county.Zigzig20s (talk) 11:43, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

And the Mauricio Portillo House. A settler from Mexico, very interesting.Zigzig20s (talk) 11:17, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

Yep, with your additions NM is now barely over 40 percent! Adding a little to the Mauricio Portillo House article now, too. Thanks! --Doncram (talk) 11:45, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

I am struggling a bit to flesh out the Antonio Torres House as well...Zigzig20s (talk) 16:51, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

I am trying to finish National Register of Historic Places listings in Grant County, New Mexico. Feel free to chip in.Zigzig20s (talk) 04:10, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

Okay, happy to do so. Any particular reason for interest there, by the way? I dunno, I could possibly get to that area sometime to take pics, although it is more likely i would get bogged down further north in NM and UT on that future trip. It seems the coordinates of places are not very good (there is big difference between "NRIS" coordinates vs. any verified ones), so it might be hard to figure which buildings are which. Certainly it helps to develop the articles. Anyhow, have done a bit more. The May 1988 ones are all part of one Multiple Property Submission. And, by the way, there's now a connected path of counties through NM to AZ and UT to CA which are 50 percent or more articled. --Doncram (talk) 14:06, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

I feel we should try to cover all the counties on the border, as they are (and will continue to be) in the news so much. We can bring more historical depth (albeit local history) to our readers. I am also interested in creating more articles about the (mostly forgotten) heroes of the Mexican-American War!Zigzig20s (talk) 14:22, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

Thanks. Do we not have a list of all the counties on the border?Zigzig20s (talk) 15:50, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

Hi, to me it sounds relevant for Wikipedia to have an article/list-article about the U.S.-Mexico border, mentioning all towns/cities/unincorporated areas and/or counties along it. Covering what kind of border security is where, like whether there is a wall or not. Cover news reports about tunnels being discovered, etc. Perhaps could have a route map for the closest road to the border, like is done for U.S. Route 66 or other road routes. Not sure if this exists yet. Not sure if counties should be covered saliently in it, because many of the counties extend quite far away, but I am not sure how far back from the border there are border-type issues, so maybe Grant County, New Mexico which doesn't touch the border would be relevant, or maybe not. Also it could be organized east to west or west to east by state, within that by county. Is that what you are driving at?

Hmm, there is Mexico–United States border, whose "Border States" section mentions "Along the border are 23 U.S. counties and 39 Mexican municipalities" but it does not list them. Perhaps that could be expanded, and/or split out. I do kind of like the dual perspective of what's on the Mexican side, too, not just what is on the U.S. side of the border, though any wall would take private property by eminent domain only on the U.S. side.

About the facts of which are the U.S. border counties, I could/would just visit the List of counties in California, List of counties in Arizona, List of counties in New Mexico, List of counties in Texas to figure them out. In NM, west to east, the three counties literally on the border are Hidalgo County, New Mexico, Luna County, New Mexico, Doña Ana County, New Mexico. The other southern NM counties border on Texas (Otero County, New Mexico, Eddy County, New Mexico and Lea County, New Mexico). --Doncram (talk) 21:32, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

It sounds very interesting.Zigzig20s (talk) 20:05, 3 February 2019 (UTC)

Wurdemann House

Hi Doncram, thank you for noticing the new article - it was my first article from scratch, so your "thanks" for creating it is really made me feel good. Schazjmd (talk) 14:57, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

E-mail

I've e-mailed you.Zigzig20s (talk) 21:43, 5 February 2019 (UTC)

Barela-Reynolds House

Talk:Barela-Reynolds House.Zigzig20s (talk) 01:06, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

Okay, Zigzig20s, i added a bit about this somewhat complex property from the NRHP document, and eventually removed the "under construction" tag. The NRHP doc is confusing because the two-part property is confusing. I used the zaguan term in the article but not latilla (lath) and vigas (beams) and other terms found in the NRHP doc. Hopefully it is better. Please feel free to develop further of course. --Doncram (talk) 23:29, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

Thank you. Very confusing indeed.Zigzig20s (talk) 23:39, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

Also it seems to me that "El Platero" silversmith store moved from one part to the other part, based on 2009 photo which does not agree with the 1977 NRHP doc. So I just revised it further. --Doncram (talk) 23:42, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

I am not sure. I wonder what they were doing during the (almost forgotten) Mexican-American War.Zigzig20s (talk) 00:55, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

National Register of Historic Places listings in El Paso County, Texas

The Elkman tool is not giving me the right PDFs, just blank ones. Where did you find the one for the bank please?Zigzig20s (talk) 20:47, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

Hi, Zigzig20s, right, the Texas ones are not available from the NPS. Follow instructions at wp:NRHPHELPTX to get PDFs from Texas Historical Commission instead. I never remember the instructions myself, i just go back to the notes there. Including I copy-paste the somewhat different reference draft from there, into any TX article, then I copy-paste the URL from the document itself, maybe this requires having a few windows open. Do ask if instructions not clear. --Doncram (talk) 22:53, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

OMG.Zigzig20s (talk) 23:03, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

Would you mind terribly if I asked you to retrieve them for me please? For example for U.S. Post Office (El Paso). I am trying to finish National Register of Historic Places listings in El Paso County, Texas.Zigzig20s (talk) 19:50, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

Zigzig20s, sorry maybe there is too much info there at that NRHPHELPTX link. More briefly, all you need to do is:

1. look up your NRHP doc at Texas Historic Sites Atlas (search on the NRHP listing name, or drill down within the county of interest)

2. copy-paste the following draft reference into your article:

<ref name=nrhpdoc>{{cite web|url= |title=National Register of Historic Places Registration: |publisher=Texas Historical Commission |author= |date= |accessdate=May 26, 2024}}</ref>

3. copy-paste the URL of the NRHP doc from the URL bar of your browser into your reference, and otherwise customize the reference. You still have to look up the authors and date of prep in section 11 of the NRHP doc.

Here is a reference for that post office:

<ref name=nrhpdoc>{{cite web|url=https://atlas.thc.state.tx.us/NR/pdfs/84001662/84001662.pdf |title=National Register of Historic Places Inventory-Nomination: United States Post Office / Downtown Station, Old Main Post Office |publisher=Texas Historical Commission |author=Peter Flagg Maxson |date=January 15, 1984 |accessdate=May 26, 2024}}</ref>

Hope this gets you started. I'm not too motivated to do a lot in Texas, after getting shot down about organizing List of RHPs in TX more sensibly. :( --Doncram (talk) 21:27, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

In 3, where is "the URL of the NRHP doc from the URL bar of your browser into your reference" please?Zigzig20s (talk) 21:50, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

I just mean the URL of the document, which you can see. When you have a window open on the NRHP document, you can see the URL of the window, of the document. I am using Chrome browser. At the top is the URL of the page that I am on (actually it is "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Doncram&action=edit&section=42" right now, while editing this comment). When i have open the NRHP document of the post office, the URL showing at the top of my browser window is https://atlas.thc.state.tx.us/NR/pdfs/84001662/84001662.pdf. I think that top area of my browser is called the "URL bar" but maybe I am wrong. It is where i type in a URL to go to a specific page, like "news.google.com". Or I can put in a Google search there "Google news". --Doncram (talk) 22:14, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

Yes, I know what a URL is. I asked where. See this edit. When I am on this website, I can find Old Fort Bliss but no URL comes with it. So where is the URL to copy and paste please? If it's the same as the one from the Elkman tool, what is the point in looking up the building on this website?Zigzig20s (talk) 22:18, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

Oh I see, I had to click on "Files" a few tabs away.Zigzig20s (talk) 22:27, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

(ec) Sorry, I knew we were just getting tripped up in words. Here is what i was writing out, maybe will put some of it at NRHPHELPTX.

You have to drill all the way in until you see the NRHP document, you just keep going until you are reading it. At "this website", you enter "Old Fort Bliss" and hit return to search on it. Its response is:

Your search returned 2 results. 
Old Fort Bliss — El Paso County
National Register Listing — 2072001357
Historical Marker — 5141003730

Click on the "National Register Listing — 2072001357", then it brings up:

Details for Old Fort Bliss (Atlas Number 2072001357)
National Register Listing — Atlas Number 2072001357

and various tabs. Click on the "Files" tab, which offers up:

National Register Nomination File 

Click on that, and the NRHP document will open. For this one, it opens slowly. But you can see the URL of the document is https://atlas.thc.state.tx.us/NR/pdfs/72001357/72001357.pdf . Which is NOT the URL suggested by the Elkman tool, which doesn't work. You have the NRHP document open, that is what you need. Knock on wood. --Doncram (talk) 22:31, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

I found it, see Old Fort Bliss.Zigzig20s (talk) 22:50, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

I've done most of them.Zigzig20s (talk) 21:49, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Working Wikipedian's Barnstar
	Thank you for all your NRHP-related work!Zigzig20s (talk) 00:52, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

National Register of Historic Places listings in Yuma County, Arizona

I am trying to do National Register of Historic Places listings in Yuma County, Arizona, as it is on the border. I am a bit disappointed in Ruth Ewing House, however. It is quite short, and I can't find her obituary on Newspapers.com.Zigzig20s (talk) 00:18, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

MacMillan Chapel

Hi Doncram, the MacMillan Chapel was moved from Ada County to Canyon County in Idaho after its listing on the NRHP (#84000989), but the listing remains on the Ada County page. Can the listing be cut and pasted from Ada to Canyon County's page? Tamanoeconomico (talk) 03:34, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Hmm, Tamanoeconomico, interesting, I certainly know of historic structures that have been moved and stayed listed on the National Register, including some covered bridges, but I don't recall buildings moving from one list-article to another. However, ships have moved many times. So, yes, we want the county-area list-articles to be accurate, and there is much precedent from NRHP-listed ships being moved from one "permanent" mooring to a different one. You could/should copy it to National Register of Historic Places listings in Canyon County, Idaho. But like we have done for ships, please also add it to National Register of Historic Places listings in Ada County, Idaho#Former listings with appropriate explanation in the description/notes column. You go ahead, and I can check on it if you like, and/or you let me know what you want me to do. --Doncram (talk) 04:41, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Thanks Doncram. Here are the two pages with my edits: Ada County, position 4 under Former listings, and Canyon County, position 19 under Current listings. Tamanoeconomico (talk) 14:46, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Prow House

Hi Doncram. I have, indeed, made many changes to this article. Reason being that an article on a regional Ozark Mountains building type (which is absolutely legit) has been expanded into a fantasy of an international "prow house" giving examples of Frank Lloyd Wright and a German housing scheme. From that, a "prow window" has been made up which simply does not exist. The "prow gable" is legit but has nothing to do with the "prow house" - that's why I separated the two things. I don't want to claim any credit for anything and I mentioned in the history page that I moved the "Winged gable" to a new article. But I take your point and include links between the two articles.

Singleton House in Georgia

I recently came across two articles about what appears to be the same historic house: the correctly named but very short Singleton House (Eatonton, Georgia), and the incorrectly named but more detailed Singleton House (Eatonville, Georgia). Since you were the creator of both articles (in 2009 and 2018, respectively), I thought you would be the best qualified to decide whether and how the material from the incorrectly named article should be merged into the earlier article. Or if you don't feel like dealing with it, just let me know, and I'll do my best with it. Cheers! --ShelfSkewed Talk 02:16, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

User:ShelfSkewed, wow, thanks! I certainly was not aware of the duplication. I have just merged the two articles, leaving a redirect behind at the one with incorrect disambiguation. How did you find the duplication, I wonder? The newer, incorrect version was the only one linked from the NRHP list-article for its county. Thank you for your attention. Please feel free to amend the modified remaining article further. Again, thanks so much! --Doncram (talk) 02:26, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

No problem. I'm working through a (very long) list of articles that should appear on disambiguation pages but don't, and the newer article was one of those, missing from the dab page Singleton House, where I found the older article listed. --ShelfSkewed Talk 02:42, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

Non-existent categories, again again

Before adding a category to an article, as you did to Nando Felty Saloon, please make sure that the category page actually exists. In some cases, it may be appropriate to create a new category in accordance with Wikipedia's categorization guidelines, but it is usually better to use the most specific available existing category. It is never appropriate to leave a page categorised in a non-existent category, i.e. one whose link displays in red. You may find it helpful to use the gadget HotCat, which tests whether a category exists before saving a change. Thank you. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 07:07, 14 March 2019 (UTC)

I disagree with your interpretation of how collaboration in Wikipedia works. Which involves allowing different people to do what they want. In general it is not valid to criticize Wikipedia developers for not doing something you happen to focus upon. It just isn't valid. One could as well criticize other article creators for not attempting to add relevant categories, i.e. for leaving new articles relatively isolated/unpopulated with categories. Or one could just as well criticize other editors for not creating articles, or not enough articles. Or to criticize you personally for not having created, before I did, whichever needed article that i did create. How dare you not create the article and put it into all sorts of wonderful categories, beforehand?

You seem to me to be asserting that the number one issue in Wikipedia is that redlink categories should not exist, over all other priorities. Completely disregarding the value of creating new categories or category redirects. Completely disregarding the value of getting categorizing done, in a cooperative way with other editors. Some/many editors do specialize in knowing about and adding categories. Based on my experience with you, I personally think that you should stay away from the area completely. Let others operate as they have done for years, without requiring your management. I am not going to learn to use HotCat, whatever that is; others do that well, and many tens or hundreds of thousands of articles get their categories refined without your involvement.

And, based on your multiple interactions with me over the last month or two, you seem to me to be engaging in bullying, wp:bullying, and generally seeming to undermine community-building and seeming to seek to criminalize normal good editing behaviors. I suggest you drop your quest. --Doncram (talk) 01:43, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

Okay, further BrownHairedGirl has accused me of "high-frequency basic incompetence" in this edit at their Talk page. Chiding me unfairly, IMHO, apparently, after some temporary confusion was already completely resolved. Yep, this seems pretty much like non-willingness to actually communicate, and consistent with my growing apprehension of their engaging in bullying / wp:bullying whatever. Fine. See also Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:ITSACASTLE, BHG's deletion nomination. --Doncram (talk) 01:41, 18 March 2019 (UTC) 01:50, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

And, BHG in this edit at AFD on Nikola Tesla Memorial Center is attacking me personally (" the essay WP:ITSAMUSEUM is circular-logic childish drivel which should be deleted. (I just went to see who wrote that nonsense, and no surprise, it's a Doncram creation)." ) As if my username is synonymous with drivel, and communicating personal disrespect.

At Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:ITSACASTLE i pointed out that BHG has not responded in discussion here at my talk page, meaning this section. --Doncram (talk) 14:36, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

@Doncram:, that's ridiculous. You chose not to ping me, so I didn't see your reply ... and then you not only complain here that I didn't reply but go making an issue of it elsewhere, also without notifying me.

If you do not want to be accused of "high-frequency basic incompetence", then please don't display high-frequency basic incompetence.

I didn't invent WP:REDNOT. Its there for a reason. If you disagree with it, then start an RFC to change it ... but so long as it stands, it's a very easy thing to follow. Simply look at the bottom of a page when you save, and if you see a redlinked category, fix it.

And no, I am definitely not asserting that the number one issue in Wikipedia is that redlink categories should not exist, over all other priorities. Please don't put words in my mouth.

What I am asserting is that you repeatedly make this same very simple error, requiring other editors to clean up after you. It's easily detected and easily fixed.

And no, Wikipedia is not based on allowing different people to do what they want. It is based on people working on whatever they choose to work on, but within consensus guidelines.

All I am asking of you is that you spend a few seconds so that you don't repeatedly leave others to clean up after you. What's so hard about that? -BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 19:50, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

Bust

Hello. I e-mailed you about a historic bust a few days ago. Are you interested in working on it at all please?Zigzig20s (talk) 09:29, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

Hi, sorry for not replying promptly. I quickly looked for sources but did not find anything much. I think it is not part of any NRHP listing, is that right? I could try to look more, but perhaps someone skilled in getting old newspapers and other sources via non-public literature searching would be a better collaborator. There are a few such who I notice participating in AFDs from time to time. --Doncram (talk) 14:23, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

I couldn't find it on Newspapers.com. We are missing articles about busts and monuments built by Cuban refugees in the US--this is one of them.Zigzig20s (talk) 14:30, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

NPR Newsletter No.17

Hello Doncram,

News

• The WMF has announced that Google Translate is now available for translating articles through the content translation tool. This may result in an increase in machine translated articles in the New Pages Feed. Feel free to use the {{rough translation}} tag and gently remind (or inform) editors that translations from other language Wikipedia pages still require attribution per WP:TFOLWP.

Discussions of interest

• Two elements of CSD G6 have been split into their own criteria: R4 for redirects in the "File:" namespace with the same name as a file or redirect at Wikimedia Commons (Discussion), and G14 for disambiguation pages which disambiguate zero pages, or have "(disambiguation)" in the title but disambiguate a single page (Discussion).
• {{db-blankdraft}} was merged into G13 (Discussion)
• A discussion recently closed with no consensus on whether to create a subject-specific notability guideline for theatrical plays.
• There is an ongoing discussion on a proposal to create subject-specific notability guidelines for chemicals and organism taxa.

Reminders

• NPR is not a binary keep / delete process. In many cases a redirect may be appropriate. The deletion policy and its associated guideline clearly emphasise that not all unsuitable articles must be deleted. Redirects are not contentious. See a classic example of the templates to use. More templates are listed at the R template index. Reviewers who are not aware, do please take this into consideration before PROD, CSD, and especially AfD because not even all admins are aware of such policies, and many NAC do not have a full knowledge of them.

NPP Tools Report

• Superlinks – allows you to check an article's history, logs, talk page, NPP flowchart (on unpatrolled pages) and more without navigating away from the article itself.
• copyvio-check – automatically checks the copyvio percentage of new pages in the background and displays this info with a link to the report in the 'info' panel of the Page curation toolbar.
• The NPP flowchart now has clickable hyperlinks.

Six Month Queue Data: Today – Low – 2393 High – 4828
Looking for inspiration? There are approximately 1000 female biographies to review.
Stay up to date with even more news – subscribe to The Signpost.

---

Go here to remove your name if you wish to opt-out of future mailings.

--MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:18, 15 March 2019 (UTC)

MfD nomination of Wikipedia:ITSACASTLE

Wikipedia:ITSACASTLE, a page which you created or substantially contributed to, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; you may participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:ITSACASTLE and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of Wikipedia:ITSACASTLE during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 00:34, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for the notification. Yep I have replied there already. Your MFD seems like nonsense and b.s. to me, frankly, and as an addition to what appears to me as a pattern of bullying (my opinion, perhaps to be the subject of future dispute resolution). --Doncram (talk) 01:10, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

Nikola Tesla Memorial Center

Hi, Doncram. I thought about writing an article about Tesla Museum in Italy, but couldn't find anything on the web. There are sites mostly about Tesla car or so, but not about museum in Italy. Do you know more about it? Any link? Regards, --Silverije 18:44, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

Hi, User:Silverije, the place I remembered was in fact a small museum in Como, Italy (which is on Lago di Como) devoted to Volta, not Tesla. It is the Tempio Voltiano (as covered at AtlasObscura). Ah, i see there is an article already: Tempio Voltiano. Thank you for following up, and sorry it was my mistake in member to confuse the two. --Doncram (talk) 01:45, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

Done.

Done.Zigzig20s (talk) 00:41, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

Non-existent categories, again again again

Before adding a category to an article, as you did to Sierra County Sheriff's Gallows, please make sure that the category page actually exists. In some cases, it may be appropriate to create a new category in accordance with Wikipedia's categorization guidelines, but it is usually better to use the most specific available existing category. It is never appropriate to leave a page categorised in a non-existent category, i.e. one whose link displays in red. You may find it helpful to use the gadget HotCat, which tests whether a category exists before saving a change. Thank you. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:57, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

To User:BrownHairedGirl, I disagree with your point of view. I replied to you above and you did not respond. Could you please respond there. --Doncram (talk) 19:24, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

I don't what POV issue there is here.

I didn't see the reply because you didn't ping me. Just found it now. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 19:36, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

Non-existent categories, again again again again

Before adding a category to an article, as you did to Hanson Historic District, please make sure that the category page actually exists. In some cases, it may be appropriate to create a new category in accordance with Wikipedia's categorization guidelines, but it is usually better to use the most specific available existing category. It is never appropriate to leave a page categorised in a non-existent category, i.e. one whose link displays in red. You may find it helpful to use the gadget HotCat, which tests whether a category exists before saving a change. Thank you. .

Please stop this disruption. You know what the problem is, and it is very easily avoided. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 09:52, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

User:BrownHairedGirl, I completely disagree with your perspective on content and on how Wikipedia works at, I suppose, a pretty basic level. I also perceive your repeated postings here to be unpleasant and unproductive. If you are intending to be sarcastic or humorous, it is not working for me. Please do not post here at my talk page any further, at least not on the same lines as your several recent comments. --Doncram (talk) 02:48, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

@Doncram:, I find your repeated refusal to avoid making the same easily-spotted error to be to be unpleasant and unproductive. It requires other editors to clean up after you, as i have done many hundreds of time in the last few years.

I don't know whether your persistent unwillingness to simply look at a page when you save it and fix any redlinked categories is a product of WP:CIR issues. If you are intending to be sarcastic or humorous, it is not working for me.

If you don't want me to post these messages, the solution is very simple and it is entirely in your control: do not categorise articles in non-existent categories.

But so long as I keep finding then in cleanup lists, I will continue to post the reminders. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 02:57, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

I will discuss for a bit here if you will. However do not open any new sections on my Talk page similar to those you have done. Do you capeche?

What about the fact that you are simply wrong, when you assert that "It is never appropriate to leave a page categorised in a [[WP:REDNOT|non-existent category". There is no such policy or guideline, and I don't even know of any essays or any such perspective being held by any editor other than you. I have looked at wp:REDNOT and it does not provide justification for your interactions with me. If you think it does justify, I suppose you should please try to explain that to me.

Just like for redlinks to topics, calling for articles ("redlinks help wikipedia grow" and all that), red category links also help. I noticed that you yourself have created some categories and/or category redirects, from temporarily red categories in some articles that I created. Because they were needed or helpful. Obviously multiple links to red categories, coming from multiple authors or not, is an indication that a new category is needed. That is how a zillion categories have in fact been created over time. And there remain many needed categories; the work is not "done" in any sense. Today i created Category:Blacksmith shops and populated it with more than 100 existing articles.

Your tone and language in these interactions seems abusive, rude, verging upon bullying. Again as if what you are declaring (falsely) to be bad practice is in fact one of the most heinous crimes in Wikipedia. While in my perspective you are simply wrong. Ignorant or malicious or what, I don't know how to interpret your behavior. Perhaps you could suggest to me what is your motivation, because I am not understanding your motivation and style at all. If you behave like this with new editors especially, then I will tend to think that you are seriously hurting Wikipedia. --Doncram (talk) 03:10, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

@Doncram:, I help new editors where I can.

When I encounter an experienced editor who repeatedly engages in the passive-aggressive bullying technique of repetaedly leaving the same glaringly simple error for others to clean up, then when I have to clean it up I remind them. In two years of cleaning up Special:WantedCategories, there have only ever been three editors who repeatedly do this ... and the only one who has ever objected to being reminded not to do so is you. What is your problem?

You say that WP:REDNOT does not provide justification for your interactions with me.

But REDNOT says "A page in any Wikipedia namespace should never be left in a red-linked category. Either the category should be created, or else the non-existent category link should be removed or changed to one that exists". (I have bolded and italicised it for you). [And I de-bolded it --Doncram] Which part of those two sentences is unclear to you? To use your own words, is your repeated flouting of that very very simple principle ignorant or malicious or what? --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 03:48, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

BrownHairedGirl, it is not pleasant for me to talk to you at all. I don't like your abusive tone from before, or now. I asked whether you are ignorant or malicious, so on a rough level I guess you can ask that back of me. But I assure you I am not malicious in my editing of wikipedia content....how could you think so? I am obviously just developing articles, and you are following me and posting at my Talk page. While I perceive you to be malicious, behaviorily, in your denigrating me.

About that quote, I guess your interpretation is extreme. It is simply not the case that red category links are never allowed, not even temporarily, in wikipedia practice. The whole spirit about red-links is that the Wikipedia was built out of redlinks, and redlinks help grow, now, too. The summary nutshell of the guideline is "Do not remove red links unless you are certain that Wikipedia should not have an article on that subject." I was not, and you should not be certain that Category:Gallows and various other redlink categories should not exist. Obviously, obviously, obviously, thousands of wikipedia editors have created redlink categories, and then eventually the situations have been resolved, either by categories being created, or category redirects being created, or by the categories being dropped. You are perhaps being too literal and/or extrapolating from what the guideline does say. It does NOT say that "never not for one second" can a redlink category exist. And it certainly does not say that it is a crime if some editor does create a red category, or that there is anything negative about that editor, or that there is anything negative that you are entitled to impose as punishment or whatever you are trying to do. I think it is obvious that the continual creation of redlink categories by article content editors (me included, what I mostly do) provides obvious communication/guidance to category-focused editors about what category structures are needed. If technology has changed so that you can instantly see when a red category has been created, or if you and anyone else has evolved a practice of immediate suppression, I suppose you can try to stamp out immediately each independent new communication, preventing discernment of patterns. That is not how wikipedia has worked, and that sounds bad to me. I think you are over-interpreting what you want "never" to mean. I personally would take that word out of that guideline, because you are interpreting it that way. It would be reasonable to say that categories are for guiding readers, and red categories should not be left in place too long (leaving "too long" undefined, but in my view maybe a scale of years is appropriate). Sure, it is good for the collective process of Wikipedia development for categories to be established eventually. However ridiculously strict rules, and/or criminalizing of simple processes, is sure to suppress better longterm development.

Also, I suppose it is possible that exactly what the guideline states has changed over the years....perhaps you yourself changed the wording there, I suppose it could cost time now to try to determine that....however if you did change it or otherwise know how that word "never" got in there, I would appreciate your telling me to save time. But even if that "never" has been longstanding, it does not justify your treating me or anyone else abusively. --Doncram (talk) 04:44, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

Attucks High School

Hi there. Regarding Attucks High School, I thought you might like to know that there is also a relatively famous Crispus Attucks High School in Indianapolis. Both schools seem to have been named after Crispus Attucks, so we may want to think about a disambiguation page. Zagalejo^^^ 01:45, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

Or a List of schools named after Crispus Attucks (currently a redlink)? There is Attucks School and more. Certainly a disambiguation page is justified. Hmm, I thought there were stronger list-articles about Lincoln schools and Jefferson schools, but did those get consolidated into List of educational institutions named after presidents of the United States? I am not impressed with that. --Doncram (talk) 01:55, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

There's Lincoln School, Lincoln High School, etc. It's been a while since I got involved with any school disambiguation discussions on Wikipedia, so I'm not sure how to handle the Attucks articles. Zagalejo^^^ 02:06, 12 April 2019 (UTC)

I left a message at Wikipedia_talk:Disambiguation#Schools_named_"Attucks". Zagalejo^^^ 22:06, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Draft:List of postal codes of Canada

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A tag has been placed on Draft:List of postal codes of Canada requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G4 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page appears to be a repost of material that was previously deleted following a deletion discussion, such as at Articles for deletion. When a page has substantially identical content to that of a page deleted after a discussion, and any changes in the content do not address the reasons for which the material was previously deleted, it may be deleted at any time.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. Jalen D. Folf (talk) 00:26, 19 April 2019 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:Hose tower

Hello, Doncram. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Hose tower".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply and remove the {{db-afc}}, {{db-draft}}, or {{db-g13}} code.

If your submission has already been deleted by the time you get there, and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion by following the instructions at this link. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. JMHamo (talk) 22:42, 19 April 2019 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Hose tower

The article Hose tower has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Non-notable, should be on Wiktionary

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. JMHamo (talk) 08:41, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

Drafts

Do you think Rose Hill Burial Park (Oklahoma City, Oklahoma) is notable? Is having notable burials enough? Also, any help on Draft:John T. Waller would be appreciated. I didn't come across the nomination form, for example, for his building on the NRHP list. And I suspect there must be some strong sources out there somewhere. Thanks. FloridaArmy (talk) 21:07, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

User:FloridaArmy, sure, I will help on Waller article for sure. A doc on the Walker-designed Alhambra theatre plus courthouse annex is available, from Kentucky Historic Resources, within the NRHP documentation for the Hopkinsville Commercial Historic District (article which I will expand). Tonight or within a few days. Will look at cemetery too. —Doncram (talk) 21:34, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

I think the cemetery is notable.Zigzig20s (talk) 06:42, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Wool Bay, South Australia

Hi Doncram,

I noticed that your recent edit of the above article was reverted with the advice that an article about the Wool Bay lime kiln would be better than having Category:Lime kilns in Australia appended to the article. I am writing to advise that I started an article about the lime kiln earlier in 2019 because there is sufficient published material to support a 'start' class including Australian government material available under 'Attribution 3.0 Australia (CC BY 3.0 AU)' and which therefore can be prepared in a short period of time. I can complete what I started in a couple of days. Please reply here if you wish to reply.

Regards Cowdy001 (talk) 12:24, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

Hi, Cowdy001, yes, I had added the Category:Lime kilns in Australia to the article Wool Bay, South Australia, and I had added it to List of lime kilns#Australia. Yes it would be great if you would get that new article you mention into mainspace, and add Category:Lime kilns in Australia to it. I just copied and adapted text from the Wool Bay article, to add to the List of lime kilns#Australia article the following: "There were a number of lime kilns at Wool Bay, South Australia. One kiln remains and was listed along with the jetty under the name of Wool Bay Lime Kiln & Jetty on the South Australian Heritage Register on 28 November 1985." Please do feel free to update the coverage there in that list-article. Thanks! --Doncram (talk) 19:59, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

Boyden Block moved to draftspace

An article you recently created, Boyden Block, does not have enough sources and citations as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. Jalen D. Folf (talk) 21:12, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

Oh well, sorry it wasted some of your time. I moved it back. It was clearly marked "under construction", and i was indeed getting back to it. And, frankly, it did indicate notability already, by dint of NRHP listing, along with which come reliable sources. Whatever. It was indeed a crummy start, from me trying to edit from an awkward device yesterday (when i created 5 similar articles, and i since fixed up 3 of them), but still.--Doncram (talk) 23:12, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

John Boyden House moved to draftspace

An article you recently created, John Boyden House, does not have enough sources and citations as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. Jalen D. Folf (talk) 21:12, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

Same reply applies. --Doncram (talk) 23:12, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

Category:State highways in Michigan serving parks has been nominated for discussion

Category:State highways in Michigan serving parks, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Imzadi 1979 → 14:46, 4 May 2019 (UTC)

Lexington Carnegie library

This photo of the library was the first one I uploaded to Commons.

But it might not be useful because of the abundant foliage. And thanks for the insights on process and methods as relating to Monsieur Giron's Confectionery and the NRIS information issues page. The link has been saved for future discoveries. Tamanoeconomico (talk) 05:32, 5 May 2019 (UTC)

your comment about memorials

I saw your comment about memorials, and I agree. One person seems to have taken over the article and is doing as you describe. For instance, everything named after Sidney Lanier is a monument or memorial to the confederates. Lanier was a private in the army who was captured. I like poets who weren't captured. :-)

Ha ha, that made me laugh! This is about my little rant at Talk:List of Confederate monuments and memorials. I started that list-article originally, by the way. I don't know what I may do going forward, about it, but we agree the situation is bad. :( Thanks for the feedback. cheers, --Doncram (talk) 03:57, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

On the other hand, I feel this is not helpful...Zigzig20s (talk) 04:37, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

NPR Newsletter No.18

Hello Doncram,

WMF at work on NPP Improvements

Niharika Kohli, a product manager for the growth team, announced that work is underway in implementing improvements to New Page Patrol as part of the 2019 Community Wishlist and suggests all who are interested watch the project page on meta. Two requested improvements have already been completed. These are:

• Allow filtering by no citations in page curation
• Not having CSD and PRODs automatically marked as reviewed, reflecting current consensus among reviewers and current Twinkle functionality.

Reliable Sources for NPP

Rosguill has been compiling a list of reliable sources across countries and industries that can be used by new page patrollers to help judge whether an article topic is notable or not. At this point further discussion is needed about if and how this list should be used. Please consider joining the discussion about how this potentially valuable resource should be developed and used.

Backlog drive coming soon

Look for information on the an upcoming backlog drive in our next newsletter. If you'd like to help plan this drive, join in the discussion on the New Page Patrol talk page.

News

• Following a request for comment, the subject-specific notability guideline for pornographic actors and models (WP:PORNBIO) was removed; in its place, editors should consult WP:ENT and WP:GNG.

Discussions of interest

• A request for bot approval for a bot to patrol two kinds of redirects
• There has been a lot discussion about Notability of Academics
• What, if anything, would a SNG for Softball look like

Six Month Queue Data: Today – 7242 Low – 2393 High – 7250

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Stay up to date with even more news – subscribe to The Signpost.
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Delivered by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of DannyS712 (talk) at 19:17, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

Ferdinand C. Fiske (1856-1930)

Ferdinand C. Fiske (1856-1930) was definitely notable.Zigzig20s (talk) 21:29, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

OK, he is redirected to Fiske & Meginnis...Zigzig20s (talk) 21:35, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

Regarding your note at Talk:Fiske & Meginnis, I think we should split the article into separate biographical articles for each architect. The information may be redundant on each article, but it would still be more accurate.Zigzig20s (talk) 11:44, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

Barr Terrace was only designed by Fiske. If the Mueller Tower designed by Fiske & Meginnis, it could appear both in Ferdinand C. Fiske and Harry Meginnis.Zigzig20s (talk) 11:46, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

I found George Kuska for the Mueller Tower, but this suggests otherwise...Zigzig20s (talk) 12:36, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

Hi, thank you for your comments. Hmm, the other possible way to go is to combine them all back into one "Ferdinand C. Fiske and associated architects"-type article, with a section for each partnership combo's works, and with a paragraph or section for each bio. Maybe Fiske is the only really notable one; info about the others may only be about how they developed with Fiske and then did a few notable buildings later. E.g. the Nebraska History bio about Meginnis doesn't have anything much independent of Fiske.

There are other architect articles like that, where the architects overlapped in partnerships. Charles L. Thompson and associates in Arkansas comes to mind. It is an art not a science about how to divvy or combine architects up.  :) Note for William Le Baron Jenney and his later partners, I think there is less overlap, and Jenney on his own is really very notable, so Mundie & Jensen should be separate and the info about them should not clog up the main Jenney article. Although Mundie seems significant too, there is not as much separation from Jensen in age and in works and in their development (they both learned under Jenney) so covering the two of them together seems good. Of course if there gets to be too much about any one person, it can make sense to cover them in summary fashion in the combo article, and split out a separate article for them using a {{main}} link.--Doncram (talk) 17:10, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

I always prefer individual biographies.Zigzig20s (talk) 20:36, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

Okay i hear your preference. Do you mean always have separate biographies, and have separate articles about each partnership? Because we don't want to repeat everything about each partnership in each of two or more articles about the individuals, right?

But "always"? What if there is not enough to split out about a partner, i.e. if literally nothing is known about them, besides the fact of their partnering on some buildings in article about the partnership?

By the way, if we can expand both articles, we could nominate a DYK, "...that Barr Terrace and Mueller Tower are located in Lincoln, Nebraska?". Or something even hookier...Zigzig20s (talk) 21:00, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

But Barr Terrace is a Fiske work and Mueller Tower is not, is completely unrelated AFAICT right now. Did you mean a pair or more of Fiske ones? OIC from your link above that Mueller Tower may be a Meginnis and Schaumberg work, not Kaskas(?). But you wouldn't cover Meginnis and Schaumberg in same article as Fiske, so linking the two buildings in one AFD may not work. Perhaps a different combo of Fiske works, or of Meginnis and Schaumberg ones, or the like? --Doncram (talk) 21:17, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

DYKs are good, almost always, I could be on board. Right now I have lost sight of the whole picture, being bogged down in several in-progress architect articles and associated building articles that need serious cleanup: Warehouse District (Salt Lake City, Utah), Richard K.A. Kletting, Mundie & Jensen, William Le Baron Jenney, maybe more, besides the Fiske plus associates ones! --Doncram (talk) 21:15, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

It seems rather incongruous to me that both Barr and Mueller can be found in Lincoln, Nebraska!Zigzig20s (talk) 21:25, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

Not seeing why you find that unusual. Lincoln is a major city, a state capitol, home of a university, etc. National Register of Historic Places listings in Lancaster County, Nebraska has lots of NRHPs. Lincoln is not podunk! --Doncram (talk) 21:34, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

OH! DUH! I wasn't getting it! Oh, hmm, maybe there could be some very funny DYK! --Doncram (talk) 21:37, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

Yes... But they would have to be starts, not stubs.Zigzig20s (talk) 21:58, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

Warehouse District (Salt Lake City, Utah)

Hi Doncram, the Warehouse District (Salt Lake City, Utah) page may contain some misleading information in the list of buildings included from the Utah State Historical Society Historic Preservation Research Office. Most of the buildings in that list are not in the Warehouse District; they are on Main Street (formerly known as East Temple Street). I noticed you recently have been improving the article, and I would help if needed. My knowledge of that part of town is limited, though. Sunset Magazine's article referenced on the Warehouse District page, Salt Lake City's Arty West Side, indicates the boundaries of the Warehouse District are subject to change, although Main Street would still be one block away from West Temple Street, a boundary given by National Register of Historic Places listings in Salt Lake City. One problem is that the Warehouse District page references the extensive list of buildings included in the Historic Preservation Research Office document, and that list includes buildings on Main Street. Tamanoeconomico (talk) 23:01, 22 May 2019 (UTC)