Talk:Main Page

Main Page error report

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Administrators: Clear all reports

Errors in the summary of the featured article

Please do not remove this invisible timestamp. See WT:ERRORS and WP:SUBSCRIBE. - Dank (push to talk) 01:24, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

Errors in "Did you know ..."

Current DYK

Possible T. rex coprolite

Poozeum

• ... that the Poozeum holds fossilized dinosaur feces (pictured) which may have come from a T. rex?

There are multiple issues:

• The copyright status of the image is not quite clear and is currently being challenged.
• WP:DYKHOOK specifies that hooks should be a "definite fact". Words like "may have" and "possible" are not definite.
• The sources in the article for the Tyrannosaurus rex connection are not respectable or reliable, being ClickOrlando and Thrillist. For example, Thrillist says that this is the "largest discovered coprolite" but it isn't because it forgot the word "carnivore". That site feels quite unsafe and so we shouldn't be using using it when there are more respectable sources like the BBC. Notice that the BBC also reports the "largest coprolite found that belongs to a carnivore" too but is more careful to not add the T. Rex hype.
• The coprolite is named Barnum. P. T. Barnum didn't actually say "there's a sucker born every minute" but instead that you should "Preserve your integrity".

Andrew🐉(talk) 06:14, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

@RoySmith: pinging. BorgQueen (talk) 08:46, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

@Gobonobo: pinging. BorgQueen (talk) 08:47, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

Fridge smuggling

• ... that a £142 wine fridge was smuggled into Downing Street on 11 December 2020, during the height of the COVID-19 lockdown in the United Kingdom?

Per smuggling, this is illegal transportation. But the delivery of a refrigerator by an ordinary supplier seems to have been quite open, normal and legal. The word "smuggled" comes from a headline in a British red-top tabloid and this is not an acceptable source for an accusation of crime. See WP:TABLOID, WP:HEADLINES, &c. Andrew🐉(talk) 09:23, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

• ALT3 ("Wine Time Fridays") is now fine as an alternative, as I've added an extra cite so that it's not just the Mirror. (However said red-top tabloid was the one that broke the Partygate story and I don't believe any of its reporting has been challenged, so it's probably OK anyway). Black Kite (talk) 10:05, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

• The nomination had a fraught history and was previously pulled by AirshipJungleman29 for violating WP:DYKHOOKBLP. I agree that there are significant WP:BLP issues here. And the page is poor quality as it's not a properly balanced article; just a WP:PROSELINE collection of newspaper headlines. Andrew🐉(talk) 10:26, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

"Smuggled" does not have to mean "illegal", just "illicit". ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 10:30, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

Next-but-one DYK

In the fourth hook, "The American Pigeon Museum & Library", The being uppercase appears in only one of the refs, most don't include the word at all let alone capitalise it. Primergrey (talk) 08:40, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

@TCMemoire: pinging. BorgQueen (talk) 08:44, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

This was something I struggled to figure out. But per the website's copyright notice and their official Facebook page, "The" is included in the official name, although the branding omits it. – TCMemoire 08:51, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

Per MOS:THEINST, "the word the at the start of a name is uncapitalized in running text, regardless of the institution's own usage". TSventon (talk) 09:47, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

Errors in the summary of the featured list

Friday's FL

(August 16)

Monday's FL

(August 19)

Errors in the summary of the featured picture

Notice to administrators: When fixing POTD errors, please update the corresponding regular version (i.e. without "protected" in the page title) in addition to the Main Page version linked below.

General discussion

Equal opportunities...

Please do feature less British and American obscurities, and please do feature more worldwide-related articles. Reading your frontpage everyday, I witness an excessive bias upon British countryside locales and American Midwest landmarks (churches, parishes, villages, bridges, wooden areas, some local celebrities). While that might be of interest to some, they are hardly worth being featured more than once or twice per year, let alone twice weekly. Please raise your objectives a little higher and feature more world-oriented articles of real cultural interest, I'm sure there's tons of them ready in the wings. Max Ventura, Italy.

. .3 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.207.232.125 (talk) 07:34, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

I don't think people here would like more Japanese video games... –HTD 07:52, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

Or video games from anywhere else. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.31.12.229 (talk) 11:50, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

Hey Max! Thanks for your comments. This is a known and recognized problem at Wikipedia. Part of the issue is that the volunteers who work here tend to come from English speaking countries, so the coverage of topics of interest to English-speaking countries tends to be greater than that of countries for whom English is not a first language. This is somewhat understandable, given that this is the English-language Wikipedia. But we are interested in improving our coverage of topics from other parts of the world, and you Max, are the best person in the world to provide this. That's because you have an interest in seeing better coverage of those topics. Ultimately, all of Wikipedia exists only because someone just like you was interested in something that wasn't here already. So, feel free to get working and helping us all make Wikipedia better! --Jayron32 13:01, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

Nicely explained Jayron32. If there are more featured articles with a worldwide topic focus they would be on the front page. Regards, Sun Creator^(talk) 13:15, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

Jayron, you so smart and pwetttyyy...um yeah, nicely explained indeed.... >__> I'd like to add that William McKinley following Oldham is a pretty diverse line-up! And what's wrong with Japanese video-games? -.- --Τασουλα (talk) 08:53, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

• I'm assuming the TFA today is exotic enough? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:43, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for replying.

@ Jayron: thanks for the offering but between nagging wife and demanding kid, 2 dogs and a job I have barely time to read WP, certainly not contribute... thanks though. I do contribute to articles, editing, restructuring them, correcting some, but only sparingly.

@ Crisco: interesting subject. Sept. 16 featured article was an Indonesian singer who had been already featured in the Did You Know section a couple months ago with the very same article (which i had read back then). I really must point out another major issue here. Indonesian contributors are really VERY active, excessively so if I may. I am sure there is a lot of things goin' on in Indonesia today as it'a a huge country and a very scattered one, with a booming economy, but excuse me, I don't see nearly as many articles or "Did you know" items relating to, say, Russia, Sweden, or let's see... Mozambique, Spain, Uruguay, Japan, the Vanuatus, and so on. The point is, I think your steady contributors are a bit stuck on the same rounds over and over. Like I said the other day, "english parishes, michigan bridges, new zealand forests..." ; add to that "indonesian pop artists". Oh and I'm sorry, I forgot this: there have beeen 5 (five!) filly-related "Did You Know" items in the last 10 days! I mean, seriously now! Historical horseracing? Max Ventura, Italy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.162.4.147 (talk) 18:47, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

• Hmm? You started this with "featured", which I (and probably a few others) took as meaning TFA and perhaps POTD. Before 1740 Batavia massacre on 4 September, there had not been an Indonesia-related TFA for a couple years at least.

Regarding DYK, you don't need a plural there. Editor in the singular would be more precise. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:57, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

If you won't do the work to get material onto the front page, why are you complaining about those that do? Wikipedia doesn't have hired editors each with their own individual assigned topics, it uses volunteers who work on whatever interests them. Because of that some topics are better covered than others and the better articles get on the front page. Complaining about lack of balance isn't going to force people to work on things they aren't interested in. Balance comes when editors of varying backgrounds and diverse interests become more involved. --Khajidha (talk) 10:48, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Today 20 september: another filly is featured in the DYK. I'm sure everyone's cheering. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.191.62.86 (talk) 06:52, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

I'm neither cheering nor complaining. If you don't like it, quit whinging about it and GET INVOLVED!!!--Khajidha (talk) 16:55, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

The "get involved" line doesn't appear to work very well at the moment here, but there's a bbc article.. somewhere.., so the OP may have a point, if not the most articulate. Please stop replying with "get involved", when potentially valid concerns are made. Saying nothing is also a possibility (yes, I see my hypocrisy...). Perhaps DYK should introduce a cap to submissions, one per X months per editor, or some such crap. 46.115.53.165 (talk) 21:07, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

• One per X months? Erm, you may need to learn a bit about the nomination side of DYK... — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:48, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Have you counted the number of articles about soccer players? politicians? mushrooms? old houses? songs? episodes of TV programmes? cantatas? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.31.12.229 (talk) 01:16, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Possible TFAs and discussions at the new-look WP:TFAR

As many (but not all) readers of this talk page will know, nominations for articles to appear as "Today's Featured Article" on the main page are discussed at WP:TFAR and all are welcome. What may not be known is that extra input is particularly welcome at present, because the requests page is trying out a new format of more available nomination slots, and it would be good to see if this helps increase the utility of the page. Discussion also sometimes takes place about whether particular articles should run with or without an image, and if so which; in particular at present there is a discussion at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests#Nonspecific date 4 about the image suggested for Lynching of Jesse Washington, which might be of interest to you. Thanks, Bencherlite^Talk 19:14, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Link to image in question, which is now scheduled to run on September 25. Bencherlite^Talk 11:37, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Charlie Hebdo title should be in italics

As the news section on Main carries an item about Charlie Hebdo, title of the paper should be in italics werldwayd (talk) 23:48, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Try following the instructions at the top of this page, or go directly to WP:ERRORS. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.31.12.229 (talk) 02:28, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Oblig

A featured article for a video game that was never even released? Now I've seen everything! — RockMFR 02:11, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

There's also Good Articles on military projects that never happened and films that were never shot if you want more un-subjects. GRAPPLE X 02:18, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps 'non-events' should be a theme for a future April 1 event? Jackiespeel (talk) 17:49, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Gibraltar

Seems to be popping up in this section a disproportionate number of times. Is there a reason for this? Dtlloyd (talk) 11:17, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

See here and all will become clear. 188.28.250.105 (talk) 11:24, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

France

France must have become an obscure country now. No one is complaining about the "over"-linking on ITN..... --70.31.12.229 (talk) 10:59, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

We link when the story has something directly to do with the country and in this case it does. — foxj 12:51, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia languages section

Why a few language names begin with a capital letter (Deutsch, Nederlands, Esperanto) while all the rest with a lower case letter? Shouldn't this be fixed? Also the more than # articles ranking seems arbitrary 750K, 150K, 50K...why not 250K, 500K and 1M then? --Itemirus (talk) 14:25, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

The word "Deutsch", which means "German", is capitalized in the German language. The similar word "français" isn't capitalized in French. Similarly for other languages. The limits of 750K etc. are regularly adjusted upwards as Wikipedia grows. Otherwise, all the languages would gradually move to the top line. Art LaPella (talk) 14:39, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

That argument about capitalisation might make sense if the names appeared in a sentence, but they don't: it is a bulleted list. In bulleted lists, each item is grammatically independent. In the English language, names of mammal species are not treated as proper nouns, and are not capitalised in a sentence, however, in a bulleted list, they would usually have capitals. Kevin McE (talk) 18:18, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

The number groups are also adjusted to avoid having too small a group. For instance, there is only one language's Wikipedia (Chinese, if you must know) with more than 500k articles yet fewer than 750k. Lumping the 6 Wikipedias with 750k - 1M articles into the 500k list seems to make people think we are somehow slighting these languages by not putting them in their "proper" group but leaving a 500k "group" that only includes one member makes the list sloppier. Therefore, even though some might think we are slighting the Chinese wikipedia, that one is included in the 250k+ list. --Khajidha (talk) 17:14, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

While it may be formally correct, I feel that using capital letters just for a few languages is aesthetically unappealing --Itemirus (talk) 10:25, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Kevin - this is something that could only be fixed by changing the Mediawiki files themselves - that is, an admin couldn't sort them. This was also discussed only a month or so ago (and is likely in a recent archive). — foxj 10:29, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Sorry: that is at most a minor obstruction. If there were a desire to change, it could be simply handled by using [http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki Deutsch] which displays identically. That is no reason at all. Kevin McE (talk) 11:40, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Kevin is correct on this point. If deemed preferable, we could simply switch back to the type of manual coding used until June 2010. —David Levy 12:18, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

We've gone through this issue before. The languages are spelled to the rules of each language, so capitalising them would only work in the English language. I can't see any issue with the capitalisation of words which wouldn't be capitalised in that language doktorb _words^deeds 10:41, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Is your contention that common nouns in all those languages are generally given lower case when presenting them in a bulleted list? I do not believe that to be the case, and would be intrigued to see your evidence. For my part, I would offer the es.wikipedia and fr.wikipedia versions of this very list in contradiction.

You are also insisting an extreme form of inconsistency: that words in the same line of text should be treated according to the rules of several languages.

You cannot apply sentence case to something that is not written in sentences. But to the extent that it is presented in a sentence, with an introduction to describes the list and a colon separating the two parts, that sentence is in English, so the only consistent approach would be to name the languages in English, and with respect for English grammar rules re the naming of languages. Which would probably better serve the readers of a page in English. Kevin McE (talk) 11:40, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

As discussed in the past, these links exist primarily for the benefit of the various languages' readers, so switching to their English names would be unhelpful. (If you were viewing the Korean Wikipedia's main page, which text would you find more useful: "영어" or "English"?) —David Levy 12:18, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

If I were reading the home page of Korean Wikipedia, I would probably already have at least some knowledge of Korean, or the information that it is a list of wikipedias grouped according to the number of articles would be lost on me. If not, suddenly seeing my native tongue in the middle of a set of characters that I cannot understand at all informs me of nothing. The purpose of an encyclopaedia is to inform the reader, not the random uncomprehending visitor: for the reader of en.wiki, it is informative to know what the other large wikipedias are. Those who are on the English wikipedia, unless by pure accident, are likely to be able to recognise the name of their own language in English, just as any English speaker who cannot at least recognise 영어 is unlikely to navigate their way to ko.wiki. Kevin McE (talk) 20:44, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

But as an encyclopedia, Wiki is here to inform and educate. I had no idea what the Korean word for "the Korean language" was until visiting here, and that's how it should be. What kind of project would we be if we "dumbed down" the language bar just for the benefit of English speakers? The language bar acts as a very clear indication that Wikipedia is a truly world-wide project, with gateways into the world through links in the languages of the world. I can't see how anything is improved, or how anyone is satisfied, if we chose to change francais into French. doktorb _words^deeds 20:57, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Q: "What kind of project would we be if we "dumbed down" the language bar just for the benefit of English speakers?"

A: One that caters to English speakers.

The main page of Wikipedia has no brief to teach other languages: its function is to inform (mainly English speaking) readers about Wikipedia, and, in that section, about Wikipedia projects in other languages. At present, it obfuscates that purpose. Using the English language in an English language encyclopaedia is not dumbing down: it is communicating clearly, the most basic requirement of an encyclopaedia.

And indeed, how does the main page tell you that 한국어 is Korean for Korean? At best, it tells you that it is the native word for a moderately widely spoken language.

For what it is worth, the Main Page of ko.wikipedia gives the name of the other wikis in both Korean and the language in question: at least 50% of the way to a much more sensible situation.

The relevant part of our Manual of Style obliges us to bear in mind the needs of page users with disabilities, but not those who do not speak English (yet alone those who do not even speak enough English to recognise the name of their language). How clearly are these non-English names for non-English languages rendered by speech synthesisers?

Using the list of other wiki main pages listed in the left margin of en.wiki's home page, where I can identify an equivalent list, 18 out of 23 non-English projects name the other languages in that project's "home" tongue, 4 of them uniquely, the remainder, like the Korean example mentioned already, in giving both languages. And of the other 5 that do use the various native languages alone, none of them are inconsistent as to whether the language names are capitalised or not in the way that en.wiki is.

The reason for them being in other languages keeps changing: that suggests to me that the reason has never been really rationalised. Kevin McE (talk) 21:09, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

The reason for them being in other languages allows people to see very clearly that the links will take them to an article in that language. It would be a bit odd if the link wasn't in the language, it's there to direct and to inform. I know that accessibility directs us to look at inclusion, but that doesn't mean we have to turn en.wiki into Simple English, does it? We have accepted for years that an interwiki link respects the language of the project to which the link points. The Wikipedia LOGO respects the symbols of the international projects. The language bar would be devalued if it were entirely in English, it would represent the English project 'lording it' over the other projects. doktorb _words^deeds 21:48, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

I see no reason to assume that using the English language is turning en.wiki into simple.wiki: it seems to me to be treating it as en.wiki.

The reader of en.wiki is likely to be able to interpret that links that are under a heading Wikipedia languages and given what they can easily recognise as the names of languages (easily recognised because they are in the language that the reader of the page can read) will be links to wikis in those languages. The sentence at the top of the list of languages ought to give them the clue if they have not gathered it already (and could be rephrased if the current formulation of that sentence is not clear enough). And what's more, if they choose to follow it out of curiosity, they will know what language they are looking at.

Your fear of being seen as taking a position of superiority strikes me as odd: do you really believe that users of other languages are offended by en.wiki using English?

None of your comments provides any reason not to do what more than 60% of other language's home pages do of showing both languages: if you really think that the main page of wiki ought to teach readers what the Korean for Korean, or the Serbian for Serbian, is, then you should be all in favour of that option. Kevin McE (talk) 22:06, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Q: "What kind of project would we be if we "dumbed down" the language bar just for the benefit of English speakers?" A: One that caters to English speakers.

The Wikipedia languages section primarily caters to readers of languages other than English (some of whom also read English, of course).

At present, it obfuscates that purpose.

The section's primary purpose always has been to assist readers of other languages.

Using the English language in an English language encyclopaedia is not dumbing down: it is communicating clearly, the most basic requirement of an encyclopaedia.

The section is intended to communicate clearly with readers of the languages listed.

And indeed, how does the main page tell you that 한국어 is Korean for Korean?

Hover.

For what it is worth, the Main Page of ko.wikipedia gives the name of the other wikis in both Korean and the language in question: at least 50% of the way to a much more sensible situation.

We previously used that format. It was deemed superfluous (because the links are of little value to persons other than the languages' readers) and abandoned to conserve space.

The relevant part of our Manual of Style obliges us to bear in mind the needs of page users with disabilities, but not those who do not speak English (yet alone those who do not even speak enough English to recognise the name of their language).

So...screw them?

How clearly are these non-English names for non-English languages rendered by speech synthesisers?

I don't know, but any problems would extend to every page containing interlanguage links.

I'll note that when we redesigned the main page in 2006, a blind editor kindly informed us of the issues present in his screen reader (a relatively old version of the software, as I recall), which were then addressed via code modifications.

The reason for them being in other languages keeps changing:

Because someone cited a side benefit?

that suggests to me that the reason has never been really rationalised.

It's been discussed quite thoroughly. If you don't wish to take my word for it, feel free to search the archives. —David Levy 22:51, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

If I were reading the home page of Korean Wikipedia, I would probably already have at least some knowledge of Korean, or the information that it is a list of wikipedias grouped according to the number of articles would be lost on me.

"At least some knowledge of Korean" doesn't guarantee comprehension of the word "영어".

But note that I deliberately wrote "viewing", not "reading". The English Wikipedia's main page is easily reached by persons with little or no understanding of written English.

If not, suddenly seeing my native tongue in the middle of a set of characters that I cannot understand at all informs me of nothing.

If you wanted to reach English content and saw an "English" link among the incomprehensible text, you wouldn't follow it?

The purpose of an encyclopaedia is to inform the reader, not the random uncomprehending visitor:

The Wikipedia languages section primarily serves readers of languages other than English (some of whom also read English, of course).

Those who are on the English wikipedia, unless by pure accident,

Some people arrive by pure accident. —David Levy 22:51, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

David, your habit of trying to analyse a discussion by treating individual clauses in isolation rarely does merit to the argument being presented. Largely because of the brevity such a format imposes, you come across as being argumentative, with no argument being put forward; and you make assertions with no substance behind them: I know well enough from other discussions that you are more than eloquent enough not to need to give such an impression. Who says that that section exists primarily for the users of other languages, and why should English language users not be served by it? Your dismissal of MoS comes across as irresponsible, and I suspect that most internet users, if finding themselves by some strange aberration on a page in a language so obscure to them that they would not even recognise the name of their own language, would simply close the page or employ the "back one page" button. Alt text is not available to all users, and one should not have to employ mouse movements around the page to guess what things in the wikipedia of your mother tongue mean. Kevin McE (talk) 23:32, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry that you dislike my style of reply. Feel free to ignore my messages (including this one).

Who says that that section exists primarily for the users of other languages,

...but if you're going to ignore them, please don't also respond to them.

"It's been discussed quite thoroughly. If you don't wish to take my word for it, feel free to search the archives."

In your view, if someone is unable to comprehend a language's native name/script, of what value is the underlying link to him/her?

and why should English language users not be served by it?

I've made no such claim.

Your dismissal of MoS comes across as irresponsible,

I've done no such thing.

I addressed your accessibility concern, which I take seriously. Apart from that, what do you expect? For the main page to be 100% consistent with the style conventions applied to articles?

and I suspect that most internet users, if finding themselves by some strange aberration

You've never arrived at a webpage written in a language that you couldn't read?

on a page in a language so obscure to them that they would not even recognise the name of their own language, would simply close the page or employ the "back one page" button.

Exactly. We don't want people to do that. We want to direct them to Wikipedias written in the languages that they read. —David Levy 00:54, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Penis Park on front page

Really? ugh... I then go to Phallic architecture, it's basically pictures of anything that is in the shape of a stick is a dick... yeah yeah yeah don't start spamming "WP:NOCENSOR !!!" i know, perverts — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.73.114.111 (talk • contribs) 15:15, 22 September 2012‎

Anything which is cited as such in reliable sources, not everything.. The desire to perv at penis shaped architecture was about as far from the reason for creating it as you can get. Sheeks if wanting to perv at something was the purpose then I'd have created Island of 1000 titties.♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:14, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

I've already called my estate agent. GRAPPLE X 17:59, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

I bet if it was my boobs on the front page you wouldn't be moaning. (So you know yet you still looked/complained? Sounds like you're the one with the issues here) --Τασουλα (talk) 18:32, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

This discussion is pointless considering that the original post never suggested taking action about the content but is instead instead just moaning about it... I suggest we close this conversation before it devolves into more aimless moaning at one another. –Prototime (talk · contribs) 18:42, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Possible vandalism?

Can anyone explain why "Day of Baltic Unity" directs to "Battle of Saule?" 72.94.107.27 (talk) 23:39, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

The day is a commemoration of the battle; the article on the battle mentions that the date was chosen for this. GRAPPLE X 23:41, 22 September 2012 (UTC)