- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Have you discussed this on a talk page?
Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.
Location of dispute
Users involved
Dispute overview
There is a dispute about Russia's ranking among other nations in terms on GDP. This is a content dispute, but is getting heated, due to one editor accusing others of vandalism.
Have you tried to resolve this previously?
One editor went to Wikipedia talk: Help desk (not really the correct forum), and was told there and on his talk page that the edits were not vandalism. Advice has been given to go to this dispute resolution noticeboard.
How do you think we can help?
First, an outside editor is requested to review the GDP data. Second, another editor needs to remind Gladio4772 (who was previously editing as an IP) not to make allegations of vandalism in this content dispute.
Summary of dispute by Iryna Harpy
Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.
I wouldn't qualify this as a dispute but a bit of a conflation fiasco. A section dedicated to disputing the GDP in an entirely different capacity was taken up by IP user 151.40.12.61 on 8 July [1].
The greater 'dispute' was initiated out of the blue by User:Crossswords on 3 July with this edit [2], then reverted by me a couple of days later when I noticed it [3], noting that the IMF is used for GDP, PPP and related statistics for all nation-states in Wikipedia. Crossswords reverted a few days later using a less than WP:CIVIL edit summary here [4], and slow edit warring began with his/her reverting other editors who recognise IMF as a WP:RS who had been reverting him/her. Crossswords continued with this behaviour, making spurious demands of anyone contesting his/her "bold" content change [5]. This culminated with Crossswords blanking the GDP section on the talk page [6], and I responded by reinstating the section and asking why, if the user believes that the World Bank should be used as a standard, s/he is only challenging the IMF for the Russia article rather than starting an RS/N for the sake of parity on all nation-state articles.
The section on the article talk page seems to have been turned into a catch-all for a two separate 'disputes', further compounded by input by a couple of anonymous users with dynamic IPs. If IP user 151.40.12.61 has now created an account as User:Gladio4772, I would suggest that the user has difficulties in reading statistics and doesn't understand assume good faith, being uncivil, or treating Wikipedia as a battleground: but this is merely the equivalent of disruptive behaviour and being pointy without even understanding what it means. The user hasn't actually edited the article as an IP or under a new user name.
The problematic editing lies with Crossswords who has done his/her utmost to avoid WP:BRD and has engaged in a plethora of tendentious editing activities whilst trying to fly under the radar. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 05:10, 20 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Summary of Dispute by Crossroads
Why only World Bank should be used as GDP source: First of all to the russia 8th or 9th debate the 2014 IMF data for 2014 is all estimates as you can see here, the green blocks are estimates not final. How ever i think IMF GDP data shouldnt be used for any wikipedia article about countries why? Because IMF uses outdated exchange rate for their PPP gdp data, the exchange rate are coming from the ICP which is a group owned by Word Bank in fact. So World Bank always has the latest exchange rate. The IMF itself uses these data from this organisation which they state themselves, as you can read in the following
[QUOTE]The International Comparisons Program (ICP) is a global statistical initiative that produces internationally comparable Purchasing Power Parity (PPP) estimates. The PPP exchange rate estimates, maintained and published by the World Bank, the OECD, and other international organizations, are used by WEO to calculate its own PPP weight time series. Currently, WEO PPP exchange rates are based on the ICP’s 2005 round but these will be updated upon the release of the 2011 round of estimates. For more information, you can go to the World Bank’s ICP page at http://www.worldbank.org/data/icp.[/QUOTE]
So baiscly IMF PPP data was from 2005 while World Banks is now from 2011 measuring the similar living standards of economies while IMF is still too lazy updating them, nothing they do so far. But lets be logic here Wikipedia shouldnt use IMF in the first place if their PPP data is depended on the World Bank anyway. Therefore it should be replaced by World Bank data as their PPP data is always up to date. Thats why you can see that IMF and WB have different PPP numbers, its because IMFs data is outdated in the first place as they use an outdated method to calculate their data using living standards back from 2005. You can even see that china is soon to overtake the US economy in PPP and variety of media agrees they dont try to challenge it by referring to IMF because they know the truth.
What Iryna Harpy is saying is also wrong, i did also use WB data for other countries articles. I did so with Cuba replacing CIA data which is IMF data anyways (except for cuba and otehr countries the IMF isnt covering), with WB data. Now is it like i am some robot and can change all article for every country? of course not.
Also i dont like the IMF data because they openly make estimates, people constantly confuse what is estimates with and what is final as i have shown above in the link. World Bank will never make any GDP estimations, the recent GDP numbers are always only completed if the year is already over, this is how it should be made. Having estimates results in debates constantly in what should be used and what not, as you can see in the Russia article--Crossswords (talk) 10:10, 20 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Summary of dispute by Sergecross73
Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.
I have no stance in this dispute. I've only been involved because a different editor requested administrative help with dealing a difficult IP (who has now created an account as "Gladios". ) All I have to add is that Gladios, as an IP, has constantly assumed bad faith of others, makes disruptive comments, and doesn't understand the concept of vandalism, or many other basic English phrases. That being said, I suppose he could be right too. Sergecross73 msg me 20:09, 19 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Summary of dispute by Gladio4772
Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.
WB data aren't the standard used for ALL nations in Wikipedia english.IMF data 2014 are the only one standard used in nations articles.(See USA ,UK and so on...).WB data referred to 2013 are still under revision so not definitive.Same for IMF.So World Bank data 2013 are estimates (they must be revised again-ISTAT for istance for Italy like all statistic centres for other states has to revise the italian nominal gdp of 2013,so how is it possible ranking Italy and Russia in a definitive way?) like IMF April data 2014.Many times are deeply revised and revised again also after the first publication (generally in Spring of the following year) when the year is over because of the accounting changes or other causes and this changes a lot numbers.IMF data and World Bank data referred to the nominal GDP are very very similar because the counting is mostly the same.So no chances to criticize IMF about it. In Wikipedia english the standard is using english and not other languages,so it's for nominal GDPS.Wikipedia has its own standards to follow and these are IMF April data 2014.We have definitive (these are the "true" final data ,and not the ones published in Spring the following year) data only referred to 2012 for nominal gpds and in 2012 Italy was same 8th while Russia 9th.In Italy article there's even a mistake about it (there's written that Italy was 9th as nominal gdp in 2012:WRONG ,it was 8th; i corrected it only Wikipedia italian Italy article).A lot of mistakes about gdps derive from dated writings or ignorance or other.
I suggested in the Talk to correct 2 big mistakes referred to Russia nominal gdp ranking in Russia article presentation and in the part close to the nominal gdp value (2092).The standard for ALL nations data and rankings are based on IMF data 2014,why Russia not?Why this exclusive situation?I've posted the official IMF organization site in the Russia Talk (if you need i can post it here again) List of countries by past and future GDP (nominal).Checking Italy article you can see that Italy is 8th by nominal gdp with 2,171 trillions and Russia is ranked same with only 2,092 trillions.There's the evidence of the 2 mistakes in Russia article because the 2 countries with different nominal gdps can't be at the same time 8th.Italy is the real 8th and Russia is 9th.Some people wrote me about GDP PPP,but i never cited it and i don't care of it.Lost time talking about it.CROSSWORDS uses GDP ppp just to say that IMF is worse than World Bank and people must use World Bank data.IMF have its own institutes (that in many cases are better than the World Bank ones) that neither WB owns so avoid to attack even international organizations.Other people realized the mistakes like IP 129....,but he justified without any official number the mistakes He wrote "c'mon.." just to say "let it go even if it doesn't respect IMF official data".Irina Harpy supports me in this and has realized the problem.She answers to 129.... in few words that my position is right.Honestly i'm not able to realize Taivo position.Nobody really succeded in showing i'm wrong.Sometimes i didn't realize english of other people (but i realize english of many other people in different places ;my neighbour is from Doncaster (UK,EU) and i talk with him very well).I don't like to write negative things on other people,i reacted only if i was attacked or i saw partial actions or i felt offended or bad feith.I can just say that Russia article reported Russia ranking by nominal gdp 9th less than 3 months ago and somebody changed it unlocking and posting 8th.It's impossible to see in the Talk the discussion about this change that appear like a phantom acting.TO CROSSWORDS : also 2013 data IMF about all nations aren't definitive and same thing for World Bank (so 2013 data of World Bank that is over as you like aren't definitive and so they are just estimates too ).Do you want to say that IMF isn't a good source about nominal GDPS?Explain this to economic world and Wikipedia administrators and editors.In 2012 Russia seemed to have overtaken Italy according to IMF but after the last revision Italy in 2012 was still 8th.So 2013 data aren't still definitive but just estimates like the 2014 ones.Wikipedia standards are based only on 2014 IMF data for all nations.CROSSWORDS expressed just personal opinions against Wikipedia lines and above all based on wrong points.I don't like to show useless posts to make impression to other people like him.I know them and they are useless to solve these 2 mistakes.He has NOTHING on his hands.Wikipedia official lines (and mine too) are totally different about nominal gdps.I'm costantly in contact with ISTAT,OECD and IMF and i can make also cite you their names.I repeat about official numbers of IMF there's a very very small place for arguing or fantasy.It's impossible to deny my STATEMENTS based on official IMF data April 2014.If you need more informations ask me.I beg your pardon if i used a wrong form in presenting it.Have a good day and thanks.PS @ CROSSWORDS:try GDP ppp with the 2013 exchange rates (why 2011 exchange rates and not 2005 or 2013?) ,they changed a lot for Russia and other states,in fact ruble fell like many other weak currencies.Above all DISPUTE started because of WRONG data of nominal gdp ranking posted on Russia article unlocked in a not right way .NUMBERS ARE NUMBERS,NOT OPINIONS.Gladio4772 (talk) 07:57, 20 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Summary of dispute by Taivo
User:Gladio4772 (under the guise of an anonymous IP) has been pushing the position that Russia's GDP ranking is incorrectly stated in the infobox at Russia. He originally pushed the notion that he would refuse to accept the IMF's ranking because he seems to fervently oppose anything having to do with the IMF. When we explained that we use the IMF ranking in all the Wikipedia infoboxes for consistency, he continued to push the anti-IMF rhetoric. His arguments have not moved beyond that and have included personal attacks. It's always hard to understand much of what he writes because his English skills aren't developed enough to clearly talk about the topic at hand. When he wrote "strong weakness", I called it an oxymoron, but he thought it was a personal attack. He seems to be very entrenched in his anti-IMF opinion. --Taivo (talk) 02:10, 20 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Talk:Russia#MISTAKE IN RANKING NOMINAL GDP.It's 9th! discussion
Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.
If anyone is still following this DRN which - inevitably and wisely - no volunteers picked up on, I think I've worked out what the problem is (despite the WP:WALLOFTEXT and personal attacks, and with no thanks to them).
There are two issues:
- Whether the IMF is a reliable source for use in the fiscal sections of country infoboxes, or whether the World Bank figures should be used. As all of the articles for countries use IMF figures, for the sake of parity this is an issue which should be taken to a Reliable Sources noticeboard for discussion. It isn't an issue for local consensus per each article on a nation-state (as I suggested above).
- IMF stats being used on every individual article (such as Italy and Russia) do not include their numerical status in the global economy. These can only be compared and ranked if every country listed at the IMF is downloaded and sorted for the nominal GDP, GDP PPP, etc. and are available on the List of countries by GDP (PPP) article, the List of countries by GDP (PPP) per capita, the List of countries by GDP (nominal) article, and the List of countries by GDP (nominal) per capita article. Those articles are not being maintained, and the latest tables stop at 2013. Unless someone is willing to update those pages, we really don't have any method of establishing the ranking.
--Iryna Harpy (talk) 01:57, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
In IMF April report every country has its data.So or we rank every country by these data or we delete all rankings in all states ( i don't think in Wikipedia the majority of administrators and editors would agree with it).The ranking in all lists that Iryna Harpy cites rankings are given not by IMF or WB but by editors.All states ranking were well set by administrators for every country but in Russia article were changed without any discussion in Talk (vandalism).So should we delete all rankings in all states articles for Russia article vandalism?All states can be ranked by their value of gdp and IMF owns THE NEWEST ESTIMATED ON 2014 (WB HAS ESTIMATED only on 2013- I ALREADY EXPLAINED WHY WB DATA 2013 ARE ESTIMATES TOO) compared to WB.In this case Italy with 2,171 trillions $ is 8th and Russia with 2,092 trillions is 9th.IMF is a statistic and scientific organization.Who can deny it ?Before somebody must to show that IMF isn't so (really an impossible thing).So people must stop with relativism (that helps dubious acting and vandalism) and disruptive things.You must report sources that IMF data (and so rankings based on them ) aren't reliable,official and scientific.Otherwise you are talking of nothing. These are matters ONLY for people that really know this sector otherwise for people like me that studied economy is becoming really boring and disturbingI explained and explained ...but we can't last to say the same things for an everlasting time.Russian vandalic act about nominal gdp ranking (cited twice in the article presentaion) is in a cul de sac.Have all a good day. Gladio4772 (talk) 04:45, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- It's not that easy, unfortunately. If you look at Template:Infobox_country, rank is one of the parameters written into the template. It doesn't have to be used, but it does get used. Checking on the veracity is the difficult part, especially as intentional POV pushers and vandals make changes which can (and obviously have been) easily be overlooked due to high traffic editing. If there's no centralised record for the year, there's no way of confirming that it's been changed, or was verifiable in the first place.
- This isn't really the forum to discuss it. If anyone could suggest where it would be best brought up for discussion, it would be appreciated. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 05:14, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
No,at all.You must before show that IMF data 2014 are wrong and that countries can't be ranked on them.Russia has a ranking that doesn't own I derives by a wrong vandalic act may be done in good feith.Russia is 9th.Now Russia is an isolated article compared to the other nations articles.It must be corrected.No other chance.Gladio4772 (talk) 05:18, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Gladio4772, I have not been arguing for using anything outside of IMF figures being used. Please read comments carefully before you make assumptions about what is being argued for and against. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 05:28, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Do you understand english? IMF has the last (2014) estimates for all countries and WB not.All countries can be ranked on these ones like they are listed in the articles you cited and Wikipedia administrators and editors did it for every nation according to 2014 IMF data.Only Russia article was vandalized about ranking of nominal gdp.To do no correct Russia article about ranking of nominal gdp before somebody has to show that IMF isn't officially a scientific and statistic world organization.all other writings are otherwise trollying.Now you are trollying.Bye.Gladio4772 (talk) 05:34, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
You are an aggressive, foolish person who writes WALLOFTEXT tirades in barely comprehensible English when you could have made yourself clear with one polite sentence! I have finally understood that your one and only interest has been the nominal GDP. I would have thought you might be concerned with all of the fiscal issues addressed in the infobox which are not static but, no,you're incapable of writing one simple sentence regarding the matter. Now that I've managed to wade through your abusive, blithering, tangential indignation, I've redacted your gobbledygook to the incredibly minor issue that it really is. Here was I thinking that this much noise could only be about challenging all of the stats and being concerned about them. Yes, I'll change the nominal GDP to 9th so that it doesn't clash with Italy's 8th position! Now, please, trolly your backside out of Wikipedia and don't ever dare to presume that anyone will be prepared to discuss anything with you again. I'm serious: not a peep out of you again or I'll take you straight to an ANI! --Iryna Harpy (talk) 06:46, 22 July 2014 (UTC) (EDIT) Trout slapping self for incivility --Iryna Harpy (talk) 00:49, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Russia is in 5th normal GDP as Russia is fighting the global economic crisis much more successfully than most developed countries are. Based on GDP adjusted for purchasing power parity (PPP), Russia jumped ahead of all the EU nations in 2014, including Germany, which is number six in the world.
- Ahead of Russia in the top five were the United States, China, India and Japan. The World Bank data substantiated the IMF rankings published in late 2014, even though the IMF rankings put Russia in fifth place, slightly slightly ahead of Germany.
July's World Bank rankings of GDP adjusted for PPP further confirm the noteworthy level of the Russian economy, experts say. According to IMF data on nominal GDP, Russia rose to fifth place to normal GDP rankings.
- So my view is 8th is not the truth, its 5th according to world data. --195.211.155.32 (talk) 05:46, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
DRN volunteer's note: Hi, I'm a regular DRN volunteer, but I'm neither "taking" nor opening this case for discussion at this point in time. I do want to ask a question and give a warning:
- Question: Does the realization and agreement made in Iryna Harpy's last edit, above, solve this matter?
- Warning: We do not allow personal attacks or other incivility at DRN. If there is one more uncivil word or personal attack here or, for that matter, any discussion whatsoever about one another or one another's conduct, habits, practices, biases, points of view, conflicts of interest, etc., rather than about the content in question, and this matter has not already been solved, this request will be closed without further consideration regardless of whether or not it has been solved. I'm not pointing fingers at any one person here, but at the situation in general.
We're going to presume that the answer to my question is "yes". Unless someone says that the answer is "no" before 16:00 UTC on 23 July 2014 then this listing will be closed. Regards, TransporterMan (TALK) 15:51, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- I second T-man's evaluation of this thread concerning personal attacks and incivility. Just to clarify: T-man is asking if the concession by Iryna Harpy that "Yes, I'll change the nominal GDP to 9th so that it doesn't clash with Italy's 8th position" has resolved the matter. We assume that it has and unless we hear otherwise by 1600 UTC on July 23rd this case will be automatically closed.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 17:54, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- My apologies to Gladio4772 for being uncivil. Trying to unravel a discussion with so many IP interactions (read as arguments), alongside blanking of the talk page section and a slow edit war looming on the article itself to supplant IMF data with World Bank data (now in check) should, nevertheless, have not triggered such a downright rude reaction from me. I've now identified the second instance of incorrect ranking in the body of the article. As regards Crossswords and the IP below, I've left a message on the talk page about the issue not being a case by case, local consensus one. As IMF data is used universally for all country/nation-state pages, the reliability of the source would need to be contested at the Reliable Sources noticeboard. Hopefully, this has satisfied everyone involved in the dispute. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 01:07, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Iryna you did all possible.I just explained you the last thing in talk page about i was meaning with second mistake.I'll post my personal problem on my profile.I hope people wwill respect my situation.I hope we'll become not only cowriters but also FRIENDS.Thanks again).Gladio4772 (talk) 05:28, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
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- Attention editors, Gladio4772 has been acting on ip hoping pushing the same discussion on anti Russian statements by creating new user names and pushing the same agenda (Russia GDP, denouncing Russia as a superpower, Russia kicked out of G8 and more) . So I am reporting this problem with Gladio4772.
- See Gladio4772's history here[7] and ip as 151.40.13.125 for disruptive ip hoping on these same discussions, speaking against Russia in all ip’s I found below have been using. All the same editor, all ip addresses are from Florence Italy. I am reporting his comments as all the same wording slamming disruptive edits against Russia since 2013 that this is not effective when users like this are disruptive and are doing the opposite. See the links of the contributes starting July 8, 2014 - 151.40.13.161[8] , July 7, 2014 151.40.45.125[9], March 17, 2014 - 151.40.95.82[10], April 2013 - Bocca Trabaria[11], March 2014 - 151.40.24.9 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/151.40.24.9], March 2014 -151.40.7.192[12], Sept 23, 2013 - 151.40.18.30[13], Sept 15, 2013 - 151.40.55.125[14], March 18, 2014 - 151.40.35.236[15], March 18, 2014 - 151.40.9.149[16], March 17, 2014 - 151.40.72.141[17], March 16, 2014 - 151.40.14.179[18], March 16, 2014 - 151.40.83.17[19], March 15, 2014 - 151.40.69.199[20], March 15, 2014 - 151.40.34.218[21], March 15, 2014 - 151.40.120.19[22], Feb 4, 2014 - 151.40.63.30[23], Feb 4, 2014- 151.40.16.167[24], Dec 28, 2013 - 151.40.107.93[25], Dec 27, 2013 - 151.40.27.25[26], Dec 27, 2013 - 151.40.64.77[27], Dec 25, 2013 - 151.40.54.32[28], Dec 23, 2013 - 151.40.41.170[29], Dec 22, 2013 - 151.40.9.139[30], Sept 8, 2013 - 151.40.102.200[31], August 14, 2013 - 151.40.125.50[32], May 10, 2013 – Mediolanum[33], Oct 22, 2013 - Glc72[34], May 21, 2013 - 151.40.11.180[35], May 14, 2013 -151.40.59.151[36], May 14, 2013 - 151.40.60.108[37], May 11, 2013 - Bocca_Trabaria[38]
- Gladio4772 you’re not fooling anybody with your ip hoping pushing on your anti Russian statements on the same subjects.
- The facts again is Russia is the 5th largest economy now and will be number 4 in 2016 and is the biggest in Europe[39].
- Here's the facts http://rt.com/business/russia-gdp-5th-largest-158/
- http://thebricspost.com/russia-ranked-5th-largest-economy-world-bank/#.U7x7oE1OXnM
- http://en.ria.ru/business/20130715/182248723/Medvedev-Lauds-Russias-5th-Place-in-World-Banks-GDP-Rating.html
- http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/russia-takes-5th-place-in-world-gdp-rankings/483190.html
- http://www.bne.eu/content/moscow-blog-russia-overtakes-germany-become-5th-largest-economy
- http://www.fundweb.co.uk/emerging/russia-now-worlds-fifth-largest-economy-in-gdp-terms/1075160.article
- http://rbth.com/business/2013/07/17/russian_economy_becomes_biggest_in_europe_28149.html
- --198.23.81.141 (talk) 18:31, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
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- Russia's GDP is over Germany's as the fifth largest economy in terms of purchasing power parity bases of the World Bank GDP ratings. Viewing the World Bank figures show that Russia’s gross domestic product (GDP) totaled $3.38 trillion last year.
- Germany is now at number six in the rankings after recording $3.30 trillion in GDP during the same period. The United States topped the rankings with $15.68 trillion, followed by China ($12.47 trillion), India ($4.79 trillion) and Japan ($4.49 trillion).
- Russia has moved to fifth place in the ranking of the world’s largest economies by GDP, edging out Germany. The World Bank’s GDP purchasing power parity rating is compiled in international dollars, which have the same purchasing power over GDP as the US dollar has in the United States. GDP at purchaser’s prices is the sum of gross value added by all resident producers in the economy plus any product taxes and minus any subsidies not included in the value of the products. It is calculated without making deductions for depreciation of fabricated assets or for depletion and degradation of natural resources. The GDP rating based on PPP is different from the IMF’s nominal GDP rating, where Russia is ranked eighth with $2.7 trillion.
- Russia's Wikipedia pages needs a correction to 8th IMF’s nominal GDP rating and 5th in GDP ppp standings, there is an error and this needs to be fixed. (unsigned post by 64.129.3.150 08:56, 23 July 2014)
- Anon IP, you are continuing to ignore the basic issue--that Wikipedia uses IMF exclusively to determine ranking for consistency. Your continued refusal to acknowledge that simple fact is the fundamental problem here. No, Russia is not 5th per IMF data. We have told you before and I will tell you again--if you disagree with the Wikipedia use of IMF data, then Russia is the wrong forum to make your arguments. --Taivo (talk) 19:14, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Fresh Start
Thank you, Iryna Harpy and Gladio4772 for returning to civility. I think all parties are aware that this case's presence at DRN is hanging by a thread. So if the parties wish to engage here in a moderated discussion, they must behave with civility and only discuss issues of content. If participants become incivil or begin to throw stones and personalize the discussion then this case will be closed and referred to other dispute resolution forums. That said, let's make an attempt to proceed. First we will need to agree on the core of the dispute. Can someone please state, simply, in one or two sentences, the core issue that is being disputed here.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 16:33, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Wikipedia uses IMF data for consistency in country infoboxes to rank countries by GDP. The anon IP/User:Crossswords refuses to recognize IMF data and wants World Bank data used to increase Russia's ranking from 9th to 5th. We have pointed out to him/her that Russia is not the forum for that discussion, but s/he continues to push the change at Russia without considering the bigger picture. --Taivo (talk) 19:19, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Taivo has summarised the nature of the dispute succinctly.
- I don't think this should have been brought before a DRN as a behavioural pattern of blanking talk page sections (including the dispute at hand), and edit warring has emerged with User:Crossswords since his/her creation of an account earlier in April. While diatribes on talk pages are par for the course on multiple Eastern European articles, regular editors still check them in case there is some substance pertaining to the content. Initially, User:Gladio4772's comment on the GDP content read as an outraged attack, but was eventually identified as being a valid issue. As has now been established, Gladio4772 has identified as having bipolar disorder and was further provoked by Crossswords and (hopping) IP pushes debunking IMF stats as being invalid. I certainly suspect sockpuppetry or meatpuppetry at play here, but believe it should be tackled by taking him/her to an AN/U. As has been evidenced in this forum already, the IP hopper is continuing with diatribes even in this forum.
- Ultimately, the content dispute surrounding the Russia article has been satisfactorily resolved in recognising Gladio4772's challenge as reliable and verifiable. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 23:09, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- OK. We have two things going on there:
- 1) The possibility that there is a conduct issue which needs to be handled at WP:SOCK or WP:ANI etc.
- 2) The possibility that all participants can agree to have a moderated discussion to try and find some common ground and consensus about which source to use for the country data for the GDP info in the infobox.
- What do participants want to do? a) have a moderated discussion here or b) close this case and take the conduct issues to other forums. -- — Keithbob • Talk • 22:40, 24 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- For myself, I would opt for the former. Amendments have been made to the GDP for the Russia article following the IMF data used for all nation-state articles. Should Crossswords (and the IPs who may or may not be the same user) resume their WP:TE, I will open an ANI into the issue of content. Perhaps Taivo would prefer to start an ANI immediately. If so, I'd be amenable to that approach. In as far as this DRN is concerned, I believe that it should be closed off.
- My thanks to you and TransporterMan for taking the time to assist. It did allow for a lull in activity on the article and talk page and, resultantly, giving me an opportunity to go through the history of both pages in order to read through the comments with care and establish what the issues actually were. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 04:33, 25 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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– Closed as failed. See comments for reasoning.
– New discussion.