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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 0o-JayParmar-o0 (talk | contribs) at 11:42, 6 December 2009 (→zunzun.com). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

    Spam blacklists
    Shortcuts

    Mediawiki:Spam-blacklist is meant to be used by the spam blacklist extension. Unlike the meta spam blacklist, this blacklist affects pages on the English Wikipedia only. Any administrator may edit the spam blacklist. See Wikipedia:Spam blacklist for more information about the spam blacklist.

    Instructions for editors

    There are 4 sections for posting comments below. Please make comments in the appropriate section. These links take you to the appropriate section:

    1. Proposed additions
    2. Proposed removals
    3. Troubleshooting and problems
    4. Discussion

    Each section has a message box with instructions. In addition, please sign your posts with ~~~~ after your comment.

    Completed requests are archived. Additions and removals are logged, reasons for blacklisting can be found there.

    Addition of the templates {{Link summary}} (for domains), {{IP summary}} (for IP editors) and {{User summary}} (for users with account) results in the COIBot reports to be refreshed. See User:COIBot for more information on the reports.

    Instructions for admins
    Any admin unfamiliar with this page should probably read this first, thanks.
    If in doubt, please leave a request and a spam-knowledgeable admin will follow-up.

    Please consider using Special:BlockedExternalDomains instead, powered by the AbuseFilter extension. This is faster and more easily searchable, though only supports whole domains and not whitelisting.

    1. Does the site have any validity to the project?
    2. Have links been placed after warnings/blocks? Have other methods of control been exhausted? Would referring this to our anti-spam bot, XLinkBot be a more appropriate step? Is there a WikiProject Spam report? If so, a permanent link would be helpful.
    3. Please ensure all links have been removed from articles and discussion pages before blacklisting. (They do not have to be removed from user or user talk pages.)
    4. Make the entry at the bottom of the list (before the last line). Please do not do this unless you are familiar with regular expressions — the disruption that can be caused is substantial.
    5. Close the request entry on here using either {{done}} or {{not done}} as appropriate. The request should be left open for a week maybe as there will often be further related sites or an appeal in that time.
    6. Log the entry. Warning: if you do not log any entry you make on the blacklist, it may well be removed if someone appeals and no valid reasons can be found. To log the entry, you will need this number – 330047064 after you have closed the request. See here for more info on logging.

    Proposed additions

    maltagenealogy.com and saidvassallo.com

    maltagenealogy.com: Linksearch en (insource) - meta - de - fr - simple - wikt:en - wikt:fr • Spamcheck • MER-C X-wiki • gs • Reports: Links on en - COIBot - COIBot-Local • Discussions: tracked - advanced - RSN • COIBot-Link, Local, & XWiki Reports - Wikipedia: en - fr - de • Google: search • meta • Domain: domaintools • AboutUs.com

    Related site that the sockpuppet attempted to add.

    saidvassallo.com: Linksearch en (insource) - meta - de - fr - simple - wikt:en - wikt:fr • Spamcheck • MER-C X-wiki • gs • Reports: Links on en - COIBot - COIBot-Local • Discussions: tracked - advanced - RSN • COIBot-Link, Local, & XWiki Reports - Wikipedia: en - fr - de • Google: search • meta • Domain: domaintools • AboutUs.com

    This link has historically been spammed. We've got a probable sockpuppeteer. I'd like this site blacklisted to take the wind out of his sails. This will save much volunteer time. Jehochman Talk 22:46, 19 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    I've also, in the course of looking over the links from the suspect site, discovered User:Vassallo5448, who works with the same site, shares a similar name to Tancarville's (whose real name is Charles Said-Vassallo, the owner of the suspect website), and who started his Wikipedia account in September, within three days of Mobile historian's. The common link of all three editors is in their heavy interest in Maltese aristocracy, in their use of this website, and in the website's promotion on Wikipedia.  RGTraynor  15:17, 20 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    SAID-VASSALLO GROUP PTY LTD
    Possibly related;
    (saidvassallo.com/contact.htm {edited}@optusnet.com.au)
    Vassallo Industries Industrias Vassallo, (zoominfo.com/Search/PersonDetail.aspx?PersonID=778139155 Webmaster)
    Clear abuse re maltagenealogy.com and saidvassallo.com, spam sock(meat)puppetryplus Added--Hu12 (talk) 19:10, 27 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    signsvisualny.com

    signsvisualny.com: Linksearch en (insource) - meta - de - fr - simple - wikt:en - wikt:fr • Spamcheck • MER-C X-wiki • gs • Reports: Links on en - COIBot - COIBot-Local • Discussions: tracked - advanced - RSN • COIBot-Link, Local, & XWiki Reports - Wikipedia: en - fr - de • Google: search • meta • Domain: domaintools • AboutUs.com -- user has spammed this url to signage unabatedly. semi prot was denied as it was said that the site should be added to the blacklist instead, since it's one spam site and multiple IPs Theserialcomma (talk) 17:52, 26 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    Signs Visual Industries, Inc. /Spammed
    Related /spammed
    Accounts
    207.38.189.31 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • blacklist hits • AbuseLog • what links to user page • COIBot • Spamcheck • count • block log • x-wiki • Edit filter search • WHOIS • RDNS • tracert • robtex.com • StopForumSpam • Google • AboutUs • Project HoneyPot)
    199.219.144.53 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • blacklist hits • AbuseLog • what links to user page • COIBot • Spamcheck • count • block log • x-wiki • Edit filter search • WHOIS • RDNS • tracert • robtex.com • StopForumSpam • Google • AboutUs • Project HoneyPot)
    208.125.3.245 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • blacklist hits • AbuseLog • what links to user page • COIBot • Spamcheck • count • block log • x-wiki • Edit filter search • WHOIS • RDNS • tracert • robtex.com • StopForumSpam • Google • AboutUs • Project HoneyPot)
    plus Added--Hu12 (talk) 19:34, 27 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    earlywarningsys.com

    earlywarningsys.com: Linksearch en (insource) - meta - de - fr - simple - wikt:en - wikt:fr • Spamcheck • MER-C X-wiki • gs • Reports: Links on en - COIBot - COIBot-Local • Discussions: tracked - advanced - RSN • COIBot-Link, Local, & XWiki Reports - Wikipedia: en - fr - de • Google: search • meta • Domain: domaintools • AboutUs.com - Various IPs have spammed this site onto the article for Civil defense siren for months, resuming as soon as the various rounds of semi-protection have lapsed. Dayewalker (talk) 02:58, 28 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    Accounts (just a sampling of the IPs)
    174.39.248.106 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • blacklist hits • AbuseLog • what links to user page • COIBot • Spamcheck • count • block log • x-wiki • Edit filter search • WHOIS • RDNS • tracert • robtex.com • StopForumSpam • Google • AboutUs • Project HoneyPot)
    174.39.171.51 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • blacklist hits • AbuseLog • what links to user page • COIBot • Spamcheck • count • block log • x-wiki • Edit filter search • WHOIS • RDNS • tracert • robtex.com • StopForumSpam • Google • AboutUs • Project HoneyPot)
    174.39.236.30 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • blacklist hits • AbuseLog • what links to user page • COIBot • Spamcheck • count • block log • x-wiki • Edit filter search • WHOIS • RDNS • tracert • robtex.com • StopForumSpam • Google • AboutUs • Project HoneyPot)
    174.39.218.122 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • blacklist hits • AbuseLog • what links to user page • COIBot • Spamcheck • count • block log • x-wiki • Edit filter search • WHOIS • RDNS • tracert • robtex.com • StopForumSpam • Google • AboutUs • Project HoneyPot)
    174.39.193.12 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • blacklist hits • AbuseLog • what links to user page • COIBot • Spamcheck • count • block log • x-wiki • Edit filter search • WHOIS • RDNS • tracert • robtex.com • StopForumSpam • Google • AboutUs • Project HoneyPot)
    174.39.252.65 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • blacklist hits • AbuseLog • what links to user page • COIBot • Spamcheck • count • block log • x-wiki • Edit filter search • WHOIS • RDNS • tracert • robtex.com • StopForumSpam • Google • AboutUs • Project HoneyPot)
    Redirect page
    More spam IP's
    Serious spamming including editwarring and bouts of vandalism[1][2][3][4], thanks for the report plus Added--Hu12 (talk) 04:54, 28 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    Attempting to curcumvent, spamming text links[5][6] under;
    These are the ranges;
    If disruption continues we can consider range blocking as needed--Hu12 (talk) 15:35, 1 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    Back at it;
    Was spammed previously and is related to current activity; adding youtube.com/watch?v=9JDLl1CMuNs
    Also range blocked 174.39.192.0/18 for a month--Hu12 (talk) 05:08, 3 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    worldphototour.org

    worldphototour.org: Linksearch en (insource) - meta - de - fr - simple - wikt:en - wikt:fr • Spamcheck • MER-C X-wiki • gs • Reports: Links on en - COIBot - COIBot-Local • Discussions: tracked - advanced - RSN • COIBot-Link, Local, & XWiki Reports - Wikipedia: en - fr - de • Google: search • meta • Domain: domaintools • AboutUs.com

    Persistent spamming over two years. See WikiProject Spam report. MER-C 02:44, 30 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    plus Added--Hu12 (talk) 07:11, 30 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    triond.com

    links
    accounts
    related report

    All listed sites are part of the triond.com network. An account with Triond.com allows a user to upload a story to any of these sites, all of which are within the triond.com network. The network allows anyone to self-publish material, with no editorial oversight. A handful of the articles may have some degree of research - but the authors are unknown, and most appear to be using these sites to publish material that would fail WP:NOR if posted directly to Wikipedia.

    From triond.com/info/how-it-works :

    "Triond helps showcase your content so your work gets maximum readership and you earn recognition. As soon as your content is published, it begins generating revenue from several income sources, such as display and contextual advertising that appears on the pages of your content. We share with you 50% of the revenue generated by your content."

    Given the content and the "how-it-works" evidence, this site appears to be a variant of the ehow concept. Some links may be reasonable to be white-listed if established editors find quality links to request; but most are simply allow original research to be disguised as a reliable source. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 18:47, 1 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    Thanks for the indepth report. Additionaly seems theres plenty of Spam evidence (COIBot in links), and would appear the sites are nothing more than vehicles for a pay-per-spam link-building scheme. Done--Hu12 (talk) 18:26, 2 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    whoguideline.blogspot.com

    Repeatedly added to multiple articles by many different IPs. -- Ed (Edgar181) 18:30, 3 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    Some of the IPs:

    brownplanet.com

    Actually, having checked the archives, this was blacklisted by Beetstra a day or so ago. However, there are a lot - a lot - of URLs that redirect to brownplanet. They all seem to have been added by the same IP, 76.168.240.25.

    I had actually gone through and checked most of the IP's edits, and the vast majority of the URLs a) all redirect to brownplanet, and b) all originate from the same IP (according to WHOIS). I'd almost finished blacklisting them when my computer crashed (grrr) so I'll have to settle for posting this note for now. If anyone wants to take on the task of blacklisting these URLs before I get back to it, that would be great. I've indef-blocked the IP, as they're the only one using it. Cheers. --Ckatzchatspy 10:45, 4 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    Proposed removals


    cais-soas.com

    This site (CAIS-SPAS) was apparently added a couple of years ago due to somewhat dubious reasons. It is an important and credible reference site for Iranian archeological sites as well as related publications.--Mehrshad123 (talk) 20:16, 18 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    Not dubious. This site was blocked at Meta after being identified as carrying images and content in violation of copyrights [7]. This site violates WP:Copyrights, Linking to copyrighted works.no Declined --Hu12 (talk) 06:18, 19 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    The reference in question is a massive web site maintained by dozens of scholars from the University of London. There may be unresolved issues with a small number of the articles, (as is also the case with Wikipedia and many other large sites) but this is not a valid reason for blanket blocking of the entire site - especially one that is a major source of credible research and reference materials. In any case, the article that I wanted to include as a reference does not have any copyright issues. It can be found here: cais-soas.com/CAIS/Religions/iranian/anahita.htm I strongly suggest that the material form CAIS be treated on a case by case basis rather than blanket removal of the entire site.—Preceding .--Mehrshad123 (talk) 23:51, 20 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    Has the requested reference link been evaluated yet?--Mehrshad123 (talk) 22:05, 25 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    First, you may want to consider internet archives such as the Wayback Machine, which host unmodified archived copies of webpages taken at various points in time, or search google, which may have sites (such as http://flh.tmu.ac.ir/hoseini/prehist/200.htm) that would be of interest to you.
    In any case, cais-soas.com is known for carrying a works in violation of the creator's copyright. Linking to copyrighted works, Knowingly and intentionally directing others to a site that violates copyright has been considered a form of contributory infringement in the United States (Intellectual Reserve v. Utah Lighthouse Ministry [8]).[9]. Additionaly wikipedias servers are located in the United States, it's of no benefit, nor in wikipedias intrest to link this site. Closing as  Not done.--Hu12 (talk) 07:52, 27 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    associatedcontent.com

    Here: Here: associatedcontent.com: Linksearch en (insource) - meta - de - fr - simple - wikt:en - wikt:fr • Spamcheck • MER-C X-wiki • gs • Reports: Links on en - COIBot - COIBot-Local • Discussions: tracked - advanced - RSN • COIBot-Link, Local, & XWiki Reports - Wikipedia: en - fr - de • Google: search • meta • Domain: domaintools • AboutUs.com Why is this site blocked? Argues spam. Please remove this site of the blacklist. Associated content is a site recognized. Thanks! (Mago266 (talk) 04:27, 25 November 2009 (UTC))[reply]

    Not a valid reason for D-Listing the domain. Having an article on wikipedia does not make for an exception when Significant long term history of abuse and major breaches of official Wikipedia policy. Aditionaly, associated content fails Wikipedias specific inclusion requirements of our Verifiability Policy and Reliable Source guidelines. If a specific link is needed as a citation, an etablished editor can request it on the whitelist on a case-by-case basis, where the url can be demonstrated as an appropriate source (in an appropriate context) when there are no other reasonable alternatives available.  Not done--Hu12 (talk) 16:24, 25 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    HU12, thanks for attention, but I need very much this source.(Mago266 (talk) 19:05, 25 November 2009 (UTC))[reply]

    Why? For what article, and what link are you proposing is a reliable source? Kuru talk 14:37, 29 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    Art rock article, but no longer need because they are not considering the article. If I need, then I ask here. Thank's (Mago266 (talk) 02:57, 1 December 2009 (UTC))[reply]

     Stale Stifle (talk) 11:23, 2 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    fiero.nl

    For some reason this site is listed here and blocked as spam. I can see no reason why this site is blocked as it has a large archive of useful information on the Fiero... from maintenance information on stock engines to build-up threads for engine swaps and body modifications. The userbase is extremely knowledgeable and, for the most part, quite friendly. If you would, please remove this site from the blacklist so that others interested in learning more about this car can do so.

    Thanks. 76.114.90.132 (talk) 06:33, 29 November 2009 (UTC)skuzzboomer[reply]

     Not done This appears to simply be yet another fan forum related to the car; those links are often removed from the Fiero article. There is nothing there that can be used as a reliable source. The site was added when it was repeatedly spammed in 2006, see here. At any rate, this is not blacklisted here on the english wikipedia, but on the meta spam list which stretches across all languages. You'll need to go there, but I would not expect action. Kuru talk 14:50, 29 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    www.army-guide.com

    The following discussion is an archived report. Please do not modify it. Subsequent reports should be made in a new section.


    Extended content

    >> NOTE: I'm adding this again because the site is still blacklisted even though it was decided in the discussion below to unblacklist it. << - SuperTank17 (talk) 20:18, 5 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    The barmy-quide blocks it though. Flayer (talk) 12:08, 1 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    Not quite, it's blocked because of spamming. Can you explain why we should not expect this to restart if we deblacklist the site? Stifle (talk) 17:55, 3 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    Hmmm... No. But I've been reading this site for a while lately and everything was fine. Flayer (talk) 20:26, 3 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    Sorry to jump in here, but I'm not sure why this site is blacklisted for spam. I reviewed the requirements for listing it as spam, and it doesn't seem to meet any. It was posted frequently in external links, but this appears to have been done by one or two 'enthusiastic' users with 'good intentions' (providing additional sources on the topic), which perhaps triggered the initial fear that this was a spam link. If you look at the links posted, they were all relevant to the page that they were posted in. If you look at the contributions of the people who posted them, they're on a wide variety of topics, not just one's associated with the site in question... so it doesn't appear to be for the sake of advertising or a bot (really, what could an 'army guide' have to do with wrestling?). Finally, yes, this site was posted frequently, but it's an extensive site, so it can be realistically associated with many articles here at Wikipedia. -Jonathon A H (talk) 21:58, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    Well, if it were unblacklisted, what pages from the site would you add, and to what articles? Stifle (talk) 16:13, 6 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    Hello. I'm currently working on BTR-60 article so unblacklisting BTR-60 and TAB-71 articles on the site would be very helpful. The site is a normal site about military vehicles with some very interesting and useful information so it doesn't make sense to blacklist it. Pages for various other weapon systems should also be unblacklisted or even better the whole site should be unblacklisted. There's nothing harmful in that site. Regards. - SuperTank17 (talk) 23:51, 12 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm inclined to deblacklist the site and will do so in a week or so if I don't see any further reason to change my mind. Stifle (talk) 14:42, 14 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    Please don't cut and pase archived discussions, linking to it is sufficient. Ie MediaWiki_talk:Spam-blacklist/archives/September_2009#www.army-guide.com.

    Since the site is still blacklisted, it appears removal has not been decided.

    A concern here is, that after the initial blacklisting the spamming spread to other language projects. I'm not confident the spamming won't restart if removed, nor can you guaranty against its return. There doesn't appear to be any pressing need for its removal, nor am I convinced wikipedia benifits from the whole domain being delisted. However if a specific link is needed, feel free to request it on the whitelist on a case-by-case basis, where a url can be demonstrated as an appropriate source. thanks--Hu12 (talk) 06:21, 6 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    As I already stated in the archived discussion: There's nothing harmful on this website. The "spamming" resulted from the fact that there is a lot of useful information on that webiste. Have you even looked through it? Articles about military hardware could benefit greatly from this source. Also you justify keeping it on the blacklist by saying "nor am I convinced wikipedia benifits from the whole domain being delisted". As I already stated Wikipedia would benefit from this domain being unlisted. Also if the criteria to not be on the blacklist is to be beneficial to Wikipedia than you could blacklist 90% of all websites and that would take too much work to be worth it. You also speak of "spamming spreading to other language projects". If a source is being used for an article about a certain subject does it mean that articles about the exactly the same subject but in different languages are prohibited from using that source?
    Oh and you say that "Since the site is still blacklisted, it appears removal has not been decided." Well a user named Stifle stated on 14:42, 14 September 2009 (UTC), in the end of the archived discussion: "I'm inclined to deblacklist the site and will do so in a week or so if I don't see any further reason to change my mind." Well if he found a reason to change his mind why didn't he say anything about it? I've waited for weeks for that site to delisted and then I saw that it was pushed into the archives making all of the progress made in that discussion irrelevant. Regards. - SuperTank17 (talk) 13:09, 13 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    Since the discussion hasn't continued for a long time I propose removing this website from the blacklist. As I already proven the website isn't harmful and is in fact beneficial to Wikipedia. Regards. - SuperTank17 (talk) 21:22, 23 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    I'm again requesting this site to unblacklisted. There's nothing harmful on it, it has information that would beneficial to Wikipedia and there's no reason to keep it on the blacklist. Regards. - SuperTank17 (talk) 21:58, 1 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    I'd suggest you try the initial suggestion first, which was to request whitelisting of specific links. If that process demonstrates that the site has useful links, you could then apply for a broader delisting. --Ckatzchatspy 22:37, 1 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    Repeatedly reposting archived requests[10][11], while ignoring suggestions is disruptive. Closed--Hu12 (talk) 19:29, 2 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
    Okay then, here are my suggestions: Unblacklist pages about BTR-60, TAB-71, BTR-40, BMP-1, BMP-2, T-55, BRDM-1, T-62 and BRDM-2. All of them are beneficial to Wikipedia. Regards. - SuperTank17 (talk) 00:01, 4 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    colombopro. com

    This site is in the spam list for some reason. Actually doesn't know why this is in there. I'm admin and I haven't engage with Wikipedia before.
    I suggest this site to be included in the section of Google wave. because this site giving Google Wave Invites to people: colombopro[.]com/12/01/google-wave-invites/.
    Site is even not containing any ads or materials that are inappropriate. I'm proposing you to remove the site from blacklist and enlist it in the section of Google Wave, because many people be able to get Google Wave Invites. Thank You. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wickumsiha (talk • contribs) 13:32, 2 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    Seems there was considerable amount of site related spamming, See report. It does appear you are the same as this previous account, which was involved in adding these links. This is your first edit on your new account and as the Admin you have a conflict of interest. Typically, we do not remove domains from the blacklist in response to site admins or those who where involved in spamming them. Instead, we de-blacklist sites when trusted, high-volume editors request the use of blacklisted links because of their encyclopedic value in support of our encyclopedia pages. If a specific link is needed as a citation, an etablished editor can request it on the whitelist on a case-by-case basis, where the url can be demonstrated as a source. no Declined--Hu12 (talk) 18:51, 2 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    Examiner.com

    Seems strange that we would have this site on the blacklist when we have an article about it. I've used it as a source in a few articles, so this must be a fairly recent addition. I noticed this when I was editing Boo Boo Stewart to re-include a source that was in an older revision [12], only to get a note from the filter. In any case, unless there's been misusage of the links somehow, I'd like to request a removal. GlassCobra 20:04, 2 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    For reference, here's the log related to the blacklisting of the url: MediaWiki talk:Spam-blacklist/archives/October 2009#Examiner.com.
    In the case of the specific link you're wanting to restore ... it appears to be a story that consolidates news from other sites/articles. To me, I think the source articles would better serve as reliable sources, as well as being more genuine as to the actual source of the material. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 20:21, 2 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    Hmm, interesting. So when we add a link to the blacklist, do we not check to see if any articles link to it? GlassCobra 20:29, 2 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    Unfortunatly the Twilight Examiner site content you previously added (which also was previously spammed over multiple articles) appears to be scraped content from a reliabe source, Summit Entertainment, the film studio. Here is a reliable, verifiable link you might be interested in; http://www.summit-ent.com/news.php?news_id=122.  Not done--Hu12 (talk) 06:16, 3 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    Examiner.com.au

    I have seen the block page a few times. It bothers me how poorly explained it is, and how it is not linked to a suitable explanation for the block. Editors can and do use webcitation and other backup services to avoid these restrictions, if it were properly explained we might be less inclined to route around this damage.

    We could get into a whole other discussion about the quality and credibility of news sources, there are definitely some good articles on Examiner.com and blocking it doesn't seem like the right solution to improving article quality or encouraging editors to go to the real source.

    Personally I try to avoid linking to sites that have content that is likely to disappear behind a paywall or have a noarchive/norobots policy since they are a severe detriment to easy WP:Verifiability and a cause of excessive link rot.

    Despite those flaws in the blocklist there is a much bigger flaw, examiner.com.au a Tasmanian newspaper and a site not affiliated with the Examiner.com network has been blocked and is flagged by the blocklist. This block needs to be lifted as soon as possible and frankly the whole block on Examiner.com should be lifted if it cannot be done properly. -- Horkana (talk) 23:05, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    This is indeed a mistake, the .com.au should not be blocked. I will whitelist it shortly.
    examiner.com, however, is not behind a paywall, there is not a noarchive or norobots policy, the problem is that examiner.com is basically a free web host, providing a pay-per-view service. That is why it is on there. --Dirk Beetstra T C 23:21, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    I get that. Journals, blogs and sites with largely user published content (like IMDB) aren't considered good sources but are often used for lack of better sources.
    This large scale block of Examiner.com seems inappropriate, but if it were a warning encouraging editors to find a better source I'd be okay with it. My point was not that Examiner.com is Paywalled but that sites which are more harm and harder to spot than poorly written news sites trying to drive up traffic and they are something I'd really appreciate automated warnings to help me avoiding them. -- Horkana (talk) 23:31, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    Theoretically, an edit filter in warn mode could be written to warn editors that they are including a site which is not a reliable source. Problem is that such a filter is likely to be very heavy on the servers. And again, it is not that they are badly written (there is good information on it), a bigger problem is the pay-per-view, which is a huge incentive to spam (it is a way for the man in the street to earn some money). The good faith but misplaced use of some (most?) of these documents as a reference is a lesser problem, and the good documents which need to be used are now a problem because of the spam.
    The warning that the spam filter gives is a text we can adapt. If you think that it can be improved, then we should try. It should however also not be a huge wall of text. --Dirk Beetstra T C 06:34, 6 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    I forgot, I already whitelisted examiner.com.au. --Dirk Beetstra T C 06:34, 6 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    UNONIC.com

    I don't know why this is on the blacklist, but I am writing an article about it, so I am requesting it be removed. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Borninlyoko (talk • contribs)

    Its a domain registrar for URL shortening/redirection sites. If an article is writen which passes inclusion criteria, perhaps we can reconsider this request for use in that article only. For now this is no Declined--Hu12 (talk) 04:34, 3 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    zunzun.com

    This site has been blacklisted from inclusion in the curve fitting article, the only page where it's applicable as far as I am aware. The only purpose of this site is to provide an open source online tool for curve and surface fitting. It provides, without question, the most comprehensive library of equations and visualization options compared to any other tool, and it is certainly one of the most well-known among those who have a use for this software.

    The user MrOllie, and only this user, had been trying to prevent the addition of this specific site to the article for several months, while leaving links to all other sites both commercial and non-commercial. He has provided no explanation, and no means of contact as his talk page doesn't appear to be editable. Unless he has a good reason for wanting this site removed, and I can't imagine what it would be, I'm requesting that this page be removed from the blacklist. Thank you. 130.49.26.66 (talk) 13:54, 3 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    Typically, we do not remove domains from the blacklist in response to those who where involved in spamming them[13]. Instead, we de-blacklist sites when trusted, high-volume editors request the use of blacklisted links because of their encyclopedic value in support of our encyclopedia pages. If a specific link is needed as a citation, an etablished editor can request it on the whitelist on a case-by-case basis, where the url can be demonstrated as a source.no Declined--Hu12 (talk) 00:25, 4 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    Please check again. I only added the link to this article a total of two times, this is hardly "spamming," and Sir, I am offended that you would consider it as such. For someone with such high standards for editors, as it seems you only consider those with a high volume of contributions to the site, I'm also offended that you would refuse to consider this on a case-by-case basis and simply send a 'form letter' response apparently without any research whatsoever as to the encyclopedic value of the site, when I have taken the time to make an appropriate request as I believe it is useful and adds value to the article. Perhaps you should consider an atypical response in this case and research the site on your own to verify my claims, or refer me elsewhere, instead of rudely dismissing my request simply because I am an IP user. Alternatively, If you are asking me to make a request on the whitelist instead, please say so. Such an inconsiderate response is hardly appropriate otherwise. 130.49.26.66 (talk) 10:25, 4 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    Furthermore, I have one more question. Why do you not consider it spam if an editor's single purpose, as in the case of MrOllie, is to remove other editors' contributions to the site? He has made far more edits to the article concerning this specific link than anyone else, yet I am the one who is labelled a spammer? I understand your reluctance to consider the concerns of IP users, but you may verify my IP address and find that is is part of an academic network. 130.49.26.66 (talk) 10:32, 4 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    "Please check again. I only added the link to this article a total of two times, this is hardly "spamming," and Sir, I am offended that you would consider it as such."
    OK:
    by
    Indeed, your IP has only two additions, but the other 6 IPs mentioned here have quite a significant higher number, I see a total of 9 warnings on these 7 accounts, persistent undoing of edits by some despite warnings. I agree, you were not spamming, but the other accounts persistently did, and as warning and removing did not help, I agree that blacklisting is a, if not the only, solution. no Declined. --Dirk Beetstra T C 10:40, 4 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    Oh, and in case, MrOllie indeed removed the link over and over as it fails our external links guideline. You might want to read Wikipedia:Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, which shows you that we are writing an encyclopedia here, and not a linkfarm. Thanks. --Dirk Beetstra T C 10:43, 4 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    These are not my IP addresses, I only edit from the 130.49.0.0 address range yet my IP is currently static. Also, I have read the entire page concerning the external links guideline, and I fail to see anywhere where the guideline is not satisfied. Indeed, by only comparing this link to the other links that are *already present* in the article, and noting that this site is far more relevant, well-known and comprehensive and certainly makes the article more useful for practitioners of this type of applied mathematics, any reasonable person would conclude that this link has a place in the article alongside the others. That's what makes it so unusual that MrOllie continues to remove this link only while leaving all others. Since he apparently refuses to discuss his reasons for wanting the link removed but successfully convinced one of you (administrators?) to add it to the blocklist, there is hardly a consensus. Unless it can be shown that this link does not meet the external links guideline in some particular manner, I think this merits further discussion. 130.49.26.66 (talk) 04:36, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    Sure, WP:OTHERLINKS. And fact remains, that zunzun.com was pushed, pushed quite hard, actually. Further discussion is fine, but that is not something any of these accounts attempted at first, multiple warnings (did I see one of the IPs being blocked for these additions?) were simply ignored (and see WP:EL: "No page should be linked from a Wikipedia article unless its inclusion is justifiable according to this guideline and common sense. The burden of providing this justification is on the person who wants to include an external link."). MrOllie did not see a justification, he removed it at first, but it came back without discussion. It may have a place alongside the others (though "... it is not Wikipedia's purpose to include a comprehensive list of external links related to each topic"), but that can be discussed on the talkpage, or with an appropriate Wikipedia:WikiProject. I am sorry, but you will now have to convince some wikipedians who are knowledgeable about the subject whether this links merits linking, and show their consent here in a next de-listing request. I hope this explains. --Dirk Beetstra T C 21:21, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    I have removed other links from that page as well, here is one example. The zunzun link was very often reinserted, so you may have missed those other link removals in all the volume. To my knowledge this is the first discussion of this link on the wiki (aside from my various talk page warnings, some of which you chose to blank without response), so I don't believe I've refused to discuss anything. - MrOllie (talk) 21:52, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]


    www.wsraf.co.cc

    This is the official website for a Royal Air Force section that is higly relevant to the article Wellingborough School CCF. Please whitelist the link. Regards. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 0o-JayParmar-o0 (talk • contribs) 11:38, 6 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    Troubleshooting and problems


    Logging / COIBot Instr

    Blacklist logging

    Full instructions for admins


    Quick reference

    For Spam reports or requests originating from this page, use template {{/request|0#section_name}}

    • {{/request|213416274#Section_name}}
    • Insert the oldid 213416274 a hash "#" and the Section_name (Underscoring_spaces_where_applicable):
    • Use within the entry log here.

    For Spam reports or requests originating from Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Spam use template {{WPSPAM|0#section_name}}

    • {{WPSPAM|182725895#Section_name}}
    • Insert the oldid 182725895 a hash "#" and the Section_name (Underscoring_spaces_where_applicable):
    • Use within the entry log here.
    Note: If you do not log your entries, it may be removed if someone appeals the entry and no valid reasons can be found.

    Addition to the COIBot reports

    The lower list in the COIBot reports now have after each link four numbers between brackets (e.g. "www.example.com (0, 0, 0, 0)"):

    1. first number, how many links did this user add (is the same after each link)
    2. second number, how many times did this link get added to wikipedia (for as far as the linkwatcher database goes back)
    3. third number, how many times did this user add this link
    4. fourth number, to how many different wikipedia did this user add this link.

    If the third number or the fourth number are high with respect to the first or the second, then that means that the user has at least a preference for using that link. Be careful with other statistics from these numbers (e.g. good user who adds a lot of links). If there are more statistics that would be useful, please notify me, and I will have a look if I can get the info out of the database and report it. This data is available in real-time on IRC.

    Poking COIBot

    When adding {{LinkSummary}}, {{UserSummary}} and/or {{IPSummary}} templates to WT:WPSPAM, WT:SBL, WT:SWL and User:COIBot/Poke (the latter for privileged editors) COIBot will generate linkreports for the domains, and userreports for users and IPs.


    Discussion


    examiner.com redux

    It was proposed for removal above and then withdrawn, but I'd like to reopen it. I agree that it's not a particularly reliable source. If someone used it to back up a dubious fact or to establish notability, I'd challenge them on it. But sources of questionable reliability are not blanket banned using technical means; there's no community consensus for that (that I'm aware of). Our reliable source guidelines say that articles should primarily rely on reliable sources, but as with all our guidelines, it's subject to discretion and exception. I believe that using the spam blacklist in this way exceeds the scope of what it's supposed to be for, and that this case is gray enough that it shouldn't be listed. As well, I don't believe that examiner.com has any unique conflicts of interest in terms of the author's compensation... I can't imagine many web sites where a goal isn't to drive traffic. Anyway in summary, I agree that it's "blog like"... I agree that it should be used with caution, but I disagree that it should be blanket banned using the blunt instrument of the spamlist. Gigs (talk) 00:15, 20 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    I poked around to see if there was a standing community consensus on this, I didn't find one, but I did find this arbcom finding that says specifically that "Blacklisting is not to be used to enforce content decisions." Gigs (talk) 02:49, 20 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    Well, Gigs, that was quite a blanket statement, which I don't think is a reason to de-blacklist (basically, all blacklisted items are content decisions saying 'we don't want this content here'; and you seem to assume that it was blacklisted because we want to keep out the content, maybe it was just plainly spammed?)
    Regarding the examiner.com, there are several discussions stating it is not a reliable source: Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_35#examiner.com_.3D_paid_blogging.2C_no_editorial_oversight, Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_38#Request_to_reopen_discussion_on_examiner.comWikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_39#Examiner.com, Wikipedia_talk:Reliable_sources/archive_21#Examiner, Wikipedia_talk:Reliable_sources/archive_21#Examiner.com. Basically, no editorial oversight, self published sources
    Regarding spamming, I found at least one editor who was spamming their own work, Special:Contributions/Thetwilightexaminer, unfortunately too many records, I may be able to examine more of this. Maybe the MediaWiki talk:Spam-whitelist can be of assistance here? --Dirk Beetstra T C 15:39, 20 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    If it were spammed in a widespread manner that something lesser like XLinkBot can't handle then that's fine. But the main reason given for its initial and continued listing seems to be that it's not a particularly reliable source, which is something I don't agree with and I don't believe there's community consensus for. The reliability of a source should have no bearing whatsoever on a blacklist listing. The same goes with the discussions above regarding ehow.com, associated content, etc. Yes, I could probably get the specific link I wanted whitelisted, but I guess I'm concerned about the larger issue here of black and white listing decisions being driven by WP:RS instead of actual spam concerns. Maybe we should transplant this to the discussion section below, and we can hold this request pending the outcome of that larger discussion? Gigs (talk) 20:25, 20 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    As shown above there infact has been spamming and abuse, additionaly community consensus is rooted in Wikipedia policies of whats acceptable for inclusion, and in this case of Examiner.com links;
    • Have no editorial oversight (see WP:RS) and articles are essentially self-published
    • Offers its authors financial incentives to increase page views
    ""Examiners" are paid a very competitive rate based on standard Internet variables including page views, unique visitors, session length, and advertising performance. "
    • Fails Wikipedia's core content policies:
    As shown by community discussion and consensus, the reliability of a source has a determining factor on what is or is not removed or whitelisted. On that basis this request is no Declined. However, If a specific link is needed as a citation, as suggested, it can be requested on the MediaWiki talk:Spam-whitelist on a case-by-case basis, where the url can be demonstrated as a reliable source. The guideline that most directly relates to whether a given source is reliable is Reliable sources. The policies that most directly relate to this are: Verifiability and No original research. For questions and discussions debating the reliability of sources, the appropriate place for discussion is at the Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard. thanks. --Hu12 (talk) 21:59, 20 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    moved --Hu12 (talk) 23:30, 20 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    Where is the community discussion and consensus regarding using WP:RS to determine what to list on the spam blacklist? I couldn't find it. Quite the opposite, I found several comments against using it in that way, including that arbcom finding. Gigs (talk) 22:06, 21 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    Gigs, the fact that "Examiners" are paid a very competitive rate based on standard Internet variables including page views, unique visitors, session length, and advertising performance. " is a HUGE spam incentive, and many, even SINGLE additions are basically spam, not edits to improve the Wikipedia. The existence of that incentive also results in some cases in violation of WP:ELNO #2, and moreover it fails WP:RS where most of the documents simply can NOT be used as a reference. Simply, in by far the most cases this site should not be linked to, it has been abused, and hence it is blacklisted with the clear possibility to whitelist individual pages on this site.
    You would have a case if it was solely blacklisted for violation of WP:RS, but that is not the case. --Dirk Beetstra T C 09:12, 30 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    Every site has employees or authors that, if they were to add links to said site, it would represent a conflict of interest (and probably should be reverted). Most sites make money through traffic. If we block sites on the grounds that they make money from traffic, then we'll need to block most of the Internet. As for WP:ELNO #2, obviously it is not examiner's goal to mislead people through incorrect information. That clause seems directed more at hoax sites. And again, I don't see why the editorial decision over whether a site is a reliable source for a certain fact or not should be dictated through the administrative means of a black list. I don't see why the reliability or lack thereof should even be a factor here at all. I doubt many editors are aware that the black list is being used in this way. It may be useful to open an RFC to see where the consensus is. Gigs (talk) 17:25, 1 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    Unfortunately, I didn't notice this discussion here before making my request for an unlisting yesterday; however, it seems to me that Gigs in correct in saying that this is at least worth some wider discussion, perhaps at WP:RS/N. GlassCobra 14:19, 3 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    Before we take this to a wider audience, I'd like to at least get some more or less neutral questions agreed upon. To me, the main questions are:

    • Should the reliability of a source be a determining factor on what is blacklisted or whitelisted?
    • Should we blacklist sites based on their business model of paying authors based on ad revenue?

    In taking this to the community, I would want to remind people that we do have XLinkBot as well for doing reversible reverting of possibly ill-advised links that can be undone by established editors, so that people are aware that we do have tools other than the blacklist for this sort of thing. Gigs (talk) 14:53, 3 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    I am sorry Gigs, but I am afraid that you look at it from the wrong end.
    a) reliability can be a secondary factor, until now I have not seen any which have been solely decided on 'not being a reliable source'.
    b) No, we don't do that, and that is also not what I said, nor what I believe is done here.
    Of course, all sites have people working for them, who have a conflict of interest. They are not disallowed to add their site, as long as the information is to the point, reliable, etc. etc.
    1. People who work for, say, the American Chemical Society can link to documents on their site, that would indeed give some revenue to the organisation, and if that would be the incentive, then we would revert. We don't blacklist, as it is a reliable source, it is needed.
    2. People who make their own website on a server like the old geocities don't get any money for people who visit their site. They still have a conflict of interest if they add a link to their site to Wikipedia. Geocities makes (made) money from that, as all those free web hosts do. If the links were added by a person who works for Geocities, then scenario 1 is in place. Sites like these tend to fail WP:RS. Do we blacklist, generally not.
    3. Now we have sites like examiner.com. You can write your own website on there, just like on Geocities, but it has as an added bonus, that if you then link to your page, and people follow that link, that you actually get paid for that. The data is, generally again, not a WP:RS, one has a conflict of interest when adding a link to an own document. Still not really dissimilar from either 1 or 2 .. do we blacklist immediately, no.
    But, if documents on sites like 3 are more often added in an inappropriate manner (and I already gave an example of one spammer, I don't recall if I blacklisted or someone else, but I did not review the case in detail now), then an evaluation can be made, and these pay per view sites are then earlier eligible than geocities. Note that geocities has been on XLinkBot's revertlist for a long, long time, and that many, many additions of said site were inappropriate as they are (generally) unsuitable external links (and probably also generally unsuitable as references).
    So basically, this site is not blacklisted on grounds that it makes money from traffic (all do), this site is not blacklisted on grounds that it is not a reliable source (basically, then we should shut down linking to all free web hosts, social networking sites, blogs, image and video sharing sites, etc. etc.), but it is, in beginning, blacklisted because it was abused, and being a pay-per-view site makes the incentive for editors who have a page on such a site to link inappropriately bigger. Some of the early and bigger examples of such pay-per-view sites have been massively abused/spammed just for that reason (e.g. associatedcontent.com).
    Does this mean that we should not use this site, no. If you need documents which are not replaceable, and which are a unique/reliable source, then that document could/should be whitelisted, and if you make such a request with a bit of reasoning, it will be handled swiftly. I am afraid that removing this site from the blacklist will result in a new influx of such spammy additions, while in the end there will not be many which are really to improve. I am sure you are here for one or two specific documents, and there may have been a couple more requests, but sites like associatedcontent.com, which are here already for a long time, only get a request for whitelisting every now and then, while the spamming before blacklisting was severe. I hope this explains. --Dirk Beetstra T C 15:15, 3 December 2009 (UTC) (adapted, I meant associatedcontent.com --Dirk Beetstra T C 15:19, 3 December 2009 (UTC))[reply]
    I am not sure what to say. What you have said here directly contradicts what Hu12 has said and also what is being practiced on this page and on the whitelist page. Hu12 said that "As shown by community discussion and consensus, the reliability of a source has a determining factor on what is or is not removed or whitelisted." I believe this to be false, I have found no such community consensus for using the reliability of a source as a determining factor. You say it's a "secondary factor", and yet I see many decisions here and on the whitelist page being primarily based on a WP:RS rationale for not removing a blacklist or adding a whitelist entry. I have gone back over the last couple months of archives, and here are all decisions that have been primarily based on the site being unlikely to meet WP:RS:
    I don't think there is community consensus for this kind of administrative and technically enforced decision about the suitability of sites as reliable sources. You suggest that I could get a link whitelisted; I'm sure I can. But the problem here isn't the link I want to use, it's the systematic problem that I discovered when I tried to use the link. I would rather get that corrected than get the band-aid of a whitelist entry. As you point out, there probably is consensus for adding these kinds of sites to XLinkBot, since that's been done for years, but that's not what's happening here. They are being hardblocked with the blacklist instead of XLinkBot. Gigs (talk) 20:47, 3 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    There is a distinction I think you're missing. Sites aren't placed on the blacklist because they aren't reliable, they're placed on the blacklist because someone was spamming them. Fast forward to when somebody wants to whitelist (or unblacklist) a link to use in an article. At that point it's worth considering if using the site as the requester suggests would meet with policy - if it doesn't there's no good reason to grant that particular request.
    If the reliability of the source were the primary criterion, unreliable sites would be proactively blacklisted before anyone came along to spam them, but that doesn't happen. - MrOllie (talk) 21:21, 3 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    Gigs, sites are blacklisted because of abuse. I think you've got the cart before the horse. Guidelines such as WP:RS inherantly reflect community consensus, because they are community created and accepted standards.
    So yes, "the reliability of a source has a determining factor on what is or is not removed or whitelisted". Understand that when considering a removal, One must also consider the probability of reoccuring/future spamming and abuse. The fact that; →"Examiners" are paid a very competitive rate based on standard Internet variables including page views, unique visitors, session length, and advertising performance. ←, works against Examiner.com. The potential for continued spamming is a likely problem, as the incentive to do so is extremely high. Unfortunatly we have learned this in past pay-per-spam type cases.--Hu12 (talk) 00:13, 4 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    In addition to this, XLinkBot was not set up (until just a couple of days ago, and it has not been tested yet) to revert references. And for associatedcontent, ehow, and examiner, it is not just an unreliable source, you seem to 'ignore' the fact of the pay-per-view incentive. You say for ning.com that it was blacklisted just one subdomain was spammed, did you investigate all the others, and what the incentive there is (is ning.com also a pay-per-view site?)? It is fine to say, that sites should not be blacklisted because they are deemed not to be a reliable source, and if you put an request for comment on that fact only I am sure that it will not pass (I am with you there, though I can see the benefits of it, it has huge drawbacks, we do link to unreliable sources for other reasons, and sometimes it is a matter of what conclusion you want to draw whether it is unreliable or not). But these are not just sites which are containing a lot of unreliable material, and I don't think that that request for comment (on WP:RS basis only) will give results which are portable onto these sites, one would then need a second for pay-per-view sites which are also unreliable sources.
    Let me give an example, some time ago we had an editor who begged us to leave his referral link for a week, because they needed the money. The lengths this editor went through to get their referrals linked, there are a handful of links on the blacklist These sites give essentially the same problem. I can write a story on these sites about some mainstream subject, and link it from Wikipedia, so I earn some extra money. My story can be completely crap .. it will work. This is not just a site where the information is unreliable, where other editors are adding links to the unreliable information in good faith, this is not just a site where some information is fine, and some is not, no, this is a site where it pays to write absolute crap and link it from as many places as possible in order to get you some extra money. You used the argument that most sites get money from somewhere, yes, true, but I don't think that many websites will go through the effort of just filling pages with information and linking them throughout the web to get people on their sites (well, you see it in the Sildenafil corner of the web ..).
    And as I said, most of them were abused in one form or another, I recall that I, when I examined one of these sites some time ago, there were quite some single or not-so-wide-scale additions, which were not really improving the encyclopedia we are writing here, all where the username on both sides was the same or very similar. This does not necessary go by big numbers .. yes, you are right, they contain good stuff, but I am not sure it is worth the effort. Yes, they can go onto XLinkBot (I think associatedcontent.com was there for some time), but this incentive of being payed for linking defies XLinkBot (especially if you put it into reference; and the incentive just makes people revert XLinkBot). Spamming != vandalism. It generally does not pay to vandalise, while it seldomly does not pay to spam .. please do not ignore that pay-per-view incentive on these generally unreliable sources. --Dirk Beetstra T C 22:58, 3 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    I have been watching this for a while and would agree with the status quo (whitelisting on request only). There is far too much potential for misuse. I would most like to do it by way of an edit filter (which could permit editors with over a certain level of contributions to add the links on the assumption that they're reliable), but that doesn't support the fine granularity that we need. Stifle (talk) 09:02, 4 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    Regarding ning.com, the blacklist is now blocking thousands of sites on the grounds that just one of them was spammed. It is like IP blocking all of Russia because we had a single Russian vandal! This sort of prior restraint goes against the foundation of Wikipedia, and every wiki in general. It strikes at WP:BOLD and turns it into WP:ASKFIRST. Gigs (talk) 21:38, 4 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    I can't find a log entry for ning.com, I see that Hu12 blacklisted a subdomain, but I can't find who added the whole domain. This one seems a bit odd. Is there a valid reason why the whole domain is blacklisted? --Dirk Beetstra T C 23:04, 4 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    Fist Russia is not blocked. Secondly the domain ning.com is not blocked. One subdomain (addisethio.ning.com) is blocked as was requested. Thirdly, its an Ethiopian social network sub-site in which multiple "sub-group" links were spammed, including multiple instances of link vandalism [14][15][16]. I'm a bit confused by what gigs posted. Even the IP isnt russian.--Hu12 (talk) 06:37, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    Oh, my mistake (I did not look carefully), but still. There is a rule '\ning\.com\b' (which IIRC is not a correct regex, \n does not exist. We can still link to http://beetstra.ning.com, http://beetstra.ing.com (just testing) I think. That regex is, again if I see it correctly, not properly logged, and if it is really not working, it should go.
    Gigs, if you see only the proof presented of one subdomain, then that is not a reason to think that it are not multiple subdomains. Sometimes it is just one particularly bad example (but a look at e.g. a User:COIBot-report shows that the rest of the site was not used in a particularly helpful way either), sometimes an evaluation is made on the major site. Please ask whether there is enough evidence, don't say 'the blacklisting was not done on enough evidence'. User:Japanhero is giving us a hard time, using multiple sockpuppets to add links where the subdomain on the free web server is changing upon blacklisting of every other one. We are running behind the facts, and there is hardly anything we can do. Sometimes then we have to make the evaluation, 'what if we blacklist the whole domain, do we lose much?'. Yes, it becomes a bit difficult to add the good stuff (one has to go through whitelisting), but, well, the man in the street does not see how much effort it sometimes takes to keep spammers out. Again, spammers earn money from spamming! It is not just school boys and girls adding bad words to pages which you can block. They go through great lengths. But I presume that 'the editors' don't like the 'administrative decision' that Wikipedia is not supposed to end in a site where one can promote themselves or a site which can be used to improve their own revenues. The blacklist is a last resort, surely, but believe us, you don't want us to fully protect ALL drug pages (Sildenafil, etc.; yes, it takes 4 days and 10 innocent edits to become autoconfirmed, socks are easily made, so you can still spam your links to semiprotected pages, so semi is NOT enough), we can't block the whole of Russia (unfortunately some countries have a high influx of certain forms of spam, and some ranges easily change IP, and accounts are easily made), XLinkBot only reverts, and is easily reverted (and XLinkBot does not revert again .. it notifies editors, and those who follow XLinkBot will see when it is reverted; but it does not STOP spammers, it slows them only down and makes them visible), and ning.com/webs.com/&c. subdomains are easily made. Spammers know the holes, and they will use them. IT PAYS, (AND/OR) IT IS THEIR JOB! So, Gigs, are you going to help us checking and removing all the crap that will come from examiner, just because some of the documents are suitable and therefore the whole domain can't be blacklisted? Again, this site is not blacklisted solely because it is not a reliable source, it is blacklisted because it is not a reliable source ánd a pay-per-spam site. Thát is the problem. Blacklisting a non-reliable source solely on the fact that it is not a non-reliable source is never done, there is always more, either it has been abused; used e.g. to systematically 'source' wikipedia documents in a way which is neglecting our core policies, or plainly spammed, or to gain money, or even just to attract people to the site.
    To all, please stop suggesting that we 'blacklist maintainers' (well, all you admins are blacklist maintainers) make it impossible for editors to work, to reference material or to add helpful external links, we may make mistakes, but blacklisting is seldomly done without proof, and once a site starts being spammed, then you know more is going to follow. Sites like Associated content, examiner.com, ehow.com give a great incentive, and don't even think that blacklisting one subdomain will stop the spam. My suggestion below to block such sites on sight, or even pre-emptive is harsh and hard .. believe me, it is not worth the cleaning up. --Dirk Beetstra T C 08:36, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    Pre-emptive blacklisting of Pay-per-view sites

    I actually would like to turn this discussion around. We have until now only few cases of link-types which go onto this blacklist without discussion, and sometimes even without abuse, or even without any additions to Wikipedia (redirect sites like tinyurl.com are one, sites which are installing malicious software another, referral links are sometimes also blacklisted very fast without widescale abuse). I'd like to hear some community input on what to do with these 'free web hosts which offer money to the creator of documents on a pay-per-view basis' (like associatedcontent, ehow, examiner). IMHO, such sites should not be linked to, except after careful examination of specific documents and whitelisting of such documents on a need-to-link-to basis, and that such sites can actually be blacklisted to avoid abuse. Thoughts? --Dirk Beetstra T C 10:13, 4 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

    Community practice isn't really consistent on this. On the one hand we have those three blacklisted, on the other another such site is not blacklisted and is still extensively linked on Wikipedia (About.com). - MrOllie (talk) 13:08, 4 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    Hmm, About.com states "Contributing Writers go through a training program, in which they submit writing samples to an About.com editor. After the editor's suggestions have been incorporated, the articles will be re-evaluated and a hiring decision made. You can read more about the training process for Contributing Writers here.". You can then indeed earn money, but it's setup is different from the other three I mention here, where you can just join and write. --Dirk Beetstra T C 13:26, 4 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    Looking further, examiner.com does a check ("Once you click the submit button on your application, it goes to a member of the content channel team for which you have applied (Business & Finance, Sports, Pets, etc). They will assess writing style, voice and tone, knowledge within the topic, experience, etc., as well as technical factors such as grammar, spelling and punctuation. Every application is reviewed, though sometimes it can take up to two weeks due to the volume of applicants." and "Authorization to conduct criminal history background check and identity verification. We do not check credit history or contact former employers."), but not a training (like about.com: "Contributing Writers go through a training program, in which they submit writing samples to an About.com editor. After the editor's suggestions have been incorporated, the articles will be re-evaluated and a hiring decision made."). Associated content even states "The sign-up process is easy, and you can start submitting content immediately.", similarly, Ehow.com states "Just sign in to your eHow account, and from your profile page, click on the "Write Now" button. From there eHow's publishing wizard will guide you through the publishing steps.". --Dirk Beetstra T C 13:35, 4 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    Examiner does seem to go farther than the others mentioned, with the claim to assess; "writing style, voice and tone, knowledge within the topic, experience, etc., as well as technical factors such as grammar, spelling and punctuation." in the examinerfaq. Unfortunatly it (as with the others) falls short of editorial fact checking. This seems verified in their actual Terms of Use, Under section 8. User-Submitted Content... states "Since Examiner.com does not control the User Content posted on the Site, it cannot and does not warrant and/or guarantee the truthfulness, integrity, suitability, or quality of that User Content...". That seems to the nature of social media self-publishing. The policy on sourcing in this case; ”Self-published sources (online and paper)” (see Wikipedia:Verifiability#cite_note-4).--Hu12 (talk) 20:03, 4 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    The suitability of a link or a reference is not an administrative decision, it's an editorial one that is considered on a case by case basis, generally on talk pages and through our normal editing processes. I object to this entire discussion as invalid on the grounds that it attempts to usurp editorial discretion and put it in the hands of a small group of blacklist maintainers. If you hadn't noticed, this is the thrust to all my objections. Gigs (talk) 21:35, 4 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    heh, indeed! Editors have decided what WP:EL, WP:RS, WP:SPAM look like, and editors have also decided that redirect sites are not to be used on Wikipedia, that commercial spam can result in blacklisting, and editors can also decide that pay-per-view sites are generally not to be used, and can be pre-emptively blacklisted, and that then on a case-by-case basis some documents can be whitelisted. Blacklisting a site is not an administrative decision, it is an administrative action, backed up by our (editor supported) policies and guidelines. Now we have never discussed whether such sites should be blacklisted, but we have already decided that certain content shall not be linked to (heh, that is why we have this blacklist). I am here now asking our editors, whether administrators can perform the action of blacklisting pay-per-view sites just by nature. It may be that the editors disagree with that proposal (believe me, I know the pro's and con's), but there is no administrative decision here. --Dirk Beetstra T C 22:56, 4 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    I do not know if pre-emptive blacklisting of pay-per-view sites is warranted, but once such sites have started being spammed here (particularly when even a small number of external links or REFSPAM is added by SPA accounts), I support blacklisting the site. That is, block the site early; do not wait to reach that common-sense conclusion after a lot of effort reverting spam and conducting a pointless debate (would people really get multiple Wikipedia accounts just to add links in the hope of earning money? – yes). It is impractical to debate the pros and cons of every link to a large site where people have an incentive to spam (such debate would often have to cover many hundreds of links). What we know is that it pays people to spam links to examiner.com, it has been spammed, and it is blacklisted – that is as it should be. Johnuniq (talk) 07:18, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
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