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May 10

Preparing a meal

I would like to prepare a meal for my SO, but I am completely clueless cooking-wise. I am trying to figure out what I could do that doesn't require great skill (hard to screw up), nor, say, more than an hour of preparation, but is fairly impressive (e.g. I think can make simple pasta, but that's just too trivial). In my particular case, the dish should be non-spicy (we don't have/use pepper at all, other spices are OK). It should probably be a meat dish. Please suggest some dishes or alternatively if you know websites that have collections of recipes for my case (not generic recipe sites, those I know about).50.136.244.171 (talk) 03:04, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Two words: Crock Pot. It is fantastically hard to screw up beef stew. I'm a pretty good cook (if I must toot my own horn), but I do fire up my Crock Pot about once a week, and have for years. If you do own one, dust it off. If you don't, buy one yesterday. Set it up when you get up in the morning (say, 30 minutes prep time) turn it on, and leave it until dinner time. They even make "slow cooker" seasoning packets from the gravy aisle at the grocery story you can dump in so you don't have to figure out the spices. I usually brown my meat first, in a skillet, just before adding it to the crock pot, but if you aren't confident of that step, you can make a perfectly passable beef stew by just dumping beef (chuck roast, cut into 1-inch cubes), carrots (sliced or use the packaged precut ones), potatoes (either tiny fingerling potatoes, no cutting, or red potatoes cut into 1 inch cubes), celery (say two stalks, sliced), and an onion (diced) all into the Crock Pot. Add a beef stew seasoning packet (I often use my own seasoning blend I do myself, but seriously, if you're looking easy, go easy) and a cup or so of water, turn the Crock Pot on low, and go to work. It should be done by dinner time (5-6 o'clock). Also, you really can't over cook it, so it's hard to screw up. If you really want to fancy it up, about 1 hour before it is done, cut up some fresh green beans and add them to the pot (if you let them cook all day, they get too overdone). Serve over biscuits. Crock Pot cooking is very versatile and very easy, I have at least a dozen or so recipes I do in mine on a regular rotation. --Jayron32 03:25, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Actually I think the most important advice is that if you're cooking for an important occasion and you're not an expert cook, don't try something you haven't done before. Whatever you do, try it first on yourself. (And if you think pasta is so easy, you aren't making very interesting pasta. Pasta with fresh pesto is wonderful and not that hard to make if you have a food processor.) (And it's really not that hard for an inexperienced cook to mess up stew, for example by oversalting it.) (And while beef stew when well made is one of my favorite things in the world, it might not be exactly the right thing for a romantic dinner.) Looie496 (talk) 03:51, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Well, that's the thing, I probably won't be able to practice for it, and although I expect that effort will count for more than execution, I'd rather not completely screw up. And pasta might be an option, if I can figure out what to prepare besides the noodles themselves. (And I don't have a crock pot, so that's out). 50.136.244.171 (talk) 03:58, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

It's a shame, because Crock Pot cooking is so very easy. But Looie's idea is pretty good. Home-made pesto is also very nice, so that's an easy one too, but one would also need to cook a main dish to go with the pasta. Pesto itself is pretty easy: a handful of nuts, a handful of basil, a little garlic, and some olive oil to bring it all together. A food processor makes easy work of it. Pignolis are traditional (though sometimes hard to find), but I've seen recipes with pistachios or even walnuts before. This recipe is as good as any, and you can substitute out the pine nuts for shelled pistachios if you can't find them. Just make sure the sauce is smooth before using it. Spaghetti and pesto would make a nice pasta dish to go with a simple grilled chicken breast or something like that. Take two boneless skinless chicken breasts, put them in a plastic bag with some Italian salad dressing (aka emergency chicken marinade) and let it marinate for an hour or two. Grill for about 5 minutes per side; check for doneness by cutting into the middle and making sure its a uniform white all the way through. Cut into strips to serve on top of the spaghetti with pesto, and make a nice side salad of mixed field greens (they sell this by the bag now.) That's a pretty good meal too. --Jayron32 04:08, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, that seems quite plausible. One question I have has to do with the timing. On one hand I'd like to give myself plenty of time in case I screw up (very likely), but then I imagine this works best if freshly prepared. So, I get the marinading needs to be done earlier, and probably pesto can be too, but how much prior to the mealtime should I start doing the rest? (BTW, If anyone has other ideas, I'd still like to hear them). 50.136.244.171 (talk) 04:21, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

I'd give yourself about 1-1.5 hours to prepare the meal. The first thing I'd do is get the chicken into the marinade. Then, start working on the pesto. Mise en place should take about 15-20 minutes (that is, getting everything together and setting up all your ingredients and utensils and equipment ahead of time). The pesto itself will take 5-10 minutes; not long at all. Then start to pre-heat your grill, while that is happening get the salad together. Then put a big pot of water on the stove, salt it liberally, and put the heat on it right when you're ready to start grilling the chicken. DON'T add the pasta yet, you'll want that to be the very last thing you cook. Grill the chicken, and when it is done (5-6 minutes per side should do it) take it off the heat and put it on a plate under some foil to rest before cutting it into strips. All meat should rest about ten minutes before cutting anyways. When you get done grilling the chicken, your water should be boiling. Add the pasta to the boiling water and cook it while the meat is resting, cook it "al-dente" (that is, it should have some "tooth" to it, not mushy, but not crunchy either, maybe about 6-7 minutes or so for spaghetti, less for thinner noodles, more for thicker) and then take it out, drain it, and toss it in the pesto. Take the chicken, slice into strips, serve on top of the pasta and pesto along side your salad. --Jayron32 04:40, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Jayron32's excellent suggestion aside, if your ultimate goal is to impress why not just buy a pre made meal and add some things to it, chop up some vegetables, mix and match some. I can understand that it is a bit duplicitous but you'd be surprised how many "home made meals" are really just creatively presented Restaurant or Super Market Deli prepared. I appreciate your ambition but you may be setting yourself up for a failure, add to that you're already under pressure and it seems you're aiming to use a "great meal" as a means to a greater end (a segue of sorts) later, and not the topic of the night. ^{Market St.⧏} _{⧐ Diamond Way} 04:54, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

For the record, all of my home-made meals are home-made, I generally cook 4-5 meals per week, and leftovers the other nights. --Jayron32 05:00, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, Jayron, you've been of great help. As far as faking it, that rather defeats the purpose, I think. In this case it's not about demonstrating that I can cook (which I can't, and it's rather obvious), but that I care enough to go out on a limb and do something I am not good at. If it completely bombs, it's not a problem. It would simply give me an opportunity to try again some other time. That's not a first date, or anything like that. 50.136.244.171 (talk) 05:13, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

I'm sure you'll do fine and Jayron32 & Looie496 are correct those are pretty much mistake proof, just that I'm sure the 5th time you use a Crock Pot or go pesto will be better than your first, but if your ultimate goal is authenticity and not a smooth segue into something more than I hope you get your wish! ^{Market St.⧏} _{⧐ Diamond Way} 05:49, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

The only fee for my advice is that you stop back and tell us all how it goes, whatever you choose to do, whether its something someone here recommends or something else you've come up with on your own. --Jayron32 05:25, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Aw Jayron32, I think your letting OP off easy, pictures would always be nice to share, plus if we have a hidden talent in our midst how about dinner on OP next week ;-)! ^{Market St.⧏} _{⧐ Diamond Way} 05:54, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

The OP has already more or less said this in reply but even from reading the whole thread, their reply is unsurprising, in fact almost expected. If you read earlier, the OP already said the effort would likely count more than the result, although they'd rather not screw up. This makes sense since in the first post, the person is described as a SO. All this being the case, it's unsurprising as the OP later confirmed that if they were to try and cheat, this would count less than a failed result (which depending on how bad the failure, may require them to buy something precooked anyway) or otherwise defeat the point of the exercise. Nil Einne (talk) 13:36, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

They obviously care enough to want to get it right. And that's the point: they care. That will come through no matter what you actually cook, OP. But because you do care, you'll do it really well. Simple, but just right. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 13:44, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

I strongly second the crock-pot stew - it's impossible to screw up and tastes great. The only problem is that it doesn't look like much...so you need to work on appearance & presentation. I recommend grabbing some colorful fresh veggies to make for some color on the plate. I suggest mixing any two out of: Baby corn-on-the-cob, some snowpeas or some thin sliced red peppers...you can add a little water and zap them in the microwave in 3 minutes, then dump out the water and shake them up with a spoonful of salted butter - the combination of the bright red, green and yellow on the plate really helps out the overall "brown glop" that is the stew! A sprig of pointless parsley stuck on the top of the stew also looks good.

Also, splurge on a bottle of red wine...really. If you don't know wine - spend $20 on any red and you won't go too far wrong! If your SO is leery of heavy red wines, grab a bottle of "Lambrusco" - it's a sparkling red wine that's alarmingly easy to drink and goes with almost anything.

If you need a dessert - get something frozen with lots of chocolate in it...can't go wrong.

SteveBaker (talk) 16:24, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Two things. First, the essence of good cooking is sugar, salt, pepper, and butter. Second, along with the crockpot idea, my favorite very simple fancy meal I have never seen ruined is soup and chicken casserole. (Although it is a bit heavey for a summer dish in California.) Get about six boneless and skinless chicken thighs or breasts as you prefer. Lay them flat in the bottom of a very lightly buttered 3"-4" deep casserole. Add chopped onions and minced garlic. Cover with one large can of condensed or chunky soup. Cream of broccoli works well. Cover with half a bag of your favorite instant stuffing (crouton style works best). Cover with a cup or two of chopped pecans or walnuts. Cover with tinfoil and cook at 350 Fahrenheit for 45 minutes, until chicken is done. Can leave uncovered for 5-10 minutes if the stuffing hasn't crusted. Let sit for 15 minutes before serving. I use salt and pepper. You can put paprika on top before serving for color as well. μηδείς (talk) 17:47, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

For some fun with your cooking, see http://www.cookingcomically.com/ --Dismas|^(talk) 18:54, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

And if you are bit nerdy, there is Cooking for Engineers. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 21:10, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

OP here (from a different IP). Well, thanks, guys, it worked pretty well. I don't have pictures, but it looked how it was supposed to, and tasted, and I quote, "like average restaurant food" which is way better than I was shooting for. There were some minor hiccups during preparation, but mostly it went as planned. The only issue with the result was that there was too much oil. As I was preparing it, I was thinking: if I succeed, I'll have more work to do in the future, because I won't have an excuse that I can't cook anymore. Indeed, that's what she said:) Thanks again, Jayron and everyone. 2620:0:1000:5E03:15B8:BC9C:9C67:2DE5 (talk) 22:22, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Resolved

Like. Great to hear it. Cooking is the thing that brings me the greatest joy in life, I love to cook. I am so pleased that the meal came off well. Maybe the cooking bug will bite you too... --Jayron32 18:11, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Michael Jackson

This might sound slightly stupid and racist, but here's the question anyway: Why does Michael Jackson not sound like an African American? I have never encountered another African American who has such a smooth voice. I may be ignorant, but it seems to me that all other African Americans have gruff, and masculine voices, taking Rick Ross, Tracy Morgan, Whoopi Goldberg, will.i.am and Cee Lo Green for example. Just listen to their voices and you can more or less know that they are African American. But not for Michael. ☯ Bonkers The Clown \(^_^)/ Nonsensical Babble ☯ 08:02, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

• People have different voices. Period. I've played some Chrisye songs for my students and they've asked who she was. Same for REO Speedwagon's "Can't Fight This Feeling". — Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:41, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Chrisye sounds Indonesian enough, though... ☯ Bonkers The Clown \(^_^)/ Nonsensical Babble ☯ 08:59, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Some people are amazed when they first see The Tokens (an album cover on youtube) after listening to "The Lion Sleeps Tonight". Clarityfiend (talk) 08:53, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Anderson Silva sounds like a choir boy. Not sure if you count Brazilians as Americans, but even if not, he's also evidence that there's no correlation to toughness, either. Mike Tyson is also a good example. InedibleHulk (talk) 09:05, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Neil deGrasse Tyson doesn't sound anything like Barry White, we all are different after all ;-). ^{Market St.⧏} _{⧐ Diamond Way} 10:22, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Johnny Mathis, Nat King Cole, Sam Cooke, Clyde McPhatter, Marvin Gaye, Johnny Adams..... "I may be ignorant, but...." seems to sum it up, I'm afraid to say. Ghmyrtle (talk) 10:30, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Johnny Adams and the like have voices which aren't rough and deep, but at the same time aren't that smooth and... Angelic (as the King's). ☯ Bonkers The Clown \(^_^)/ Nonsensical Babble ☯ 11:11, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Ghmyrtle expressed it well. Perhaps this and this are good [and famous] examples of Sam Cooke and Nat King Cole respectively at their smoothest. --Dweller (talk) 11:49, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Getting back to the question, he sounds like Diana Ross to me — so who does Diana Ross sound like? ¦ Reisio (talk) 12:44, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Billie Holiday. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 13:38, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

There is an unsubstantiated rumour that Jackson's unique singing voice was the result of an inadvertent chemical castration that occurred as a result of some extremely strong medication to reduce acne. This is an overview, but you can find many sites using Google. 64.235.97.146 (talk) 16:11, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

That answers way too many questions. lol ^{Market St.⧏} _{⧐ Diamond Way} 16:56, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Racist poster

I think this is the best topic, so here:

(originally posted on Teahouse) I remember seeing sometime ago, a racist poster image of an African American "camouflaging" in the dark, with a warning along the lines of "keep your doors locked" at the bottom of the poster. I searched the Net with all possible keywords, but to no avail. Where is this file???? Best, ☯ Bonkers The Clown \(^_^)/ Nonsensical Babble ☯ 15:32, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Without knowing where you are, and without trying to search for it myself (I'd rather not, thanks), is it possible that the file is blocked under some (race hate?) laws in your country? - Cucumber Mike (talk) 18:15, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Was at an actual poster, or merely an image? ¦ Reisio (talk) 01:50, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

I don't know, but I do vividly recall seeing it on some racism-related page. An image, yes, on an article here. ☯ Bonkers The Clown \(^_^)/ Nonsensical Babble ☯ 07:49, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

If one was hoping to get images that cast a sports team in a negative light I'd determine their chief rival and then frequent message boards of that teams fanbase who have the will, time, resources and pathology to create works of art that cast that first team in a negative light, some have theorized all the world's people that are fans of "race" also have such message boards with similar image creators, one may go to the source of such twisted creativity that channels hours of time, resources and energy. In my very thankful experience at Wikipedia I am positive that all the best "art" in this manner isn't really represented here in a comprehensive sense. Best of luck. ^{Market St.⧏} _{⧐ Diamond Way} 14:20, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Ironic??

not a request for references
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
First of all I am NOT talking about politics (again NOT talking about politics)...I am a huge fan of Bono's and U2's work but some of my friends keep asking me things like this: Why does Bono sing in favor of MLK and Gandhi and Mandela's ideas BUT he is a friend with some people who "don't share those men's ideas"??? I would like to0 give them a response but I am not able to. Miss Bono (zootalk) 18:09, 10 May 2013 (UTC) Because he's a human being, and therefore has complex feelings that aren't necessarily the same from one day to the next? - Cucumber Mike (talk) 18:13, 10 May 2013 (UTC) Because it is quite possible to be personal friends with people who share different political views? --Jayron32 18:15, 10 May 2013 (UTC) So, I answer that to my friends everytime, but they reply: so, it is ok to say that you are trying to end with extreme poverty and then buy a 1.000 USD bottle of wine???  Miss Bono (zootalk) 18:20, 10 May 2013 (UTC) Whether it is 'ok' or not isn't a question we can answer here - it is clearly a matter of opinion, rather than fact. This is a reference desk, not a forum. AndyTheGrump (talk) 18:29, 10 May 2013 (UTC) Got it. Sorry AndyTheGrump. Won't bother never again. Miss Bono (zootalk) 18:39, 10 May 2013 (UTC) Close per Andy and OP. μηδείς (talk) 18:41, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

High-pitched bird song?

Hi, looking for bird song identification. I'm in the Rocky mountains, and I hear a bird in one of the pines that sounds like a camera flash recharging; it's that high-pitched. Like a dog whistle, only gentler. The whistle rises in pitch, just like the flash recharging. Any ideas what it could be? Maybe a bushtit but I can't find the right song. Oh a second call was quieter and was two "garbles" and a high pitch "toot" whistle. ThanksReflectionsinglass (talk) 19:00, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

May 11

The name of those "bumps" on some military outfits?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Dashing_war_veteran_and_cadets_in_SPb.jpg

http://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Corps-3-Man-Recon-3-3-4-Action-Figures-w-Accessories-11-Pcs-/230975641815?pt=US_Action_Figures&hash=item35c73898d7 (the figure on the far left has them)

You see those bumps on the left and right of his pants? What are those called?68.6.40.47 (talk) 00:41, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

See Jodhpurs. Bielle (talk) 00:49, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Does the term 'jodhpurs' come with the military implications? That page mainly talks about horseback riding.68.6.40.47 (talk) 01:05, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Lot of horseback riding in the military for a long time. ¦ Reisio (talk) 01:54, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

No military connotations in particular, not even the cavalry, as they didn't necessarily wear jodhpurs. (I'm trying to visualize an armored knight with "bumps".) Clarityfiend (talk) 02:55, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Searching 'military jodhpurs' is helpful. There are references on some sites to "flare" or "flaring". Richard Avery (talk) 07:32, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Monty offers to get Patton some sensible trousers ;-)

Are we talking about these things? They are riding breeches, of which jodhpurs are a full length variety worn with low boots. Riding breeches per se end below the knee and are worn with high boots. The military connection is that until World War I, senior officers went to war on horses, and wearing riding clothes was a sign of rank, which continued after horses were left behind. By World War II, most Allied staff officers had moved on to more practical kit, but traditionally minded chaps like Lord Gort [1], Charles De Gaulle [2] and George S. Patton stuck to the slightly comical nether garments. The most famous wearers today are the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. [3] Alansplodge (talk) 16:33, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

dirty tricks

I have accessed your article on dirty tricks, but it appeared to be mainly concerned with the political sphere.

What I want to enquire about is a tactic I have been subjected to, and if you could direct me to where I could find further information about it? Such as, who (broadly) originated this tactic; who generally practices it and who (broadly) are the targets of the technique.

Until I experienced it (and I am 60 years old and well read) I have never come across this tactic before.

This is what happened.

The person I am interacting with, whatever I say, claims the opposite. In the absence of a third party to ascertain the facts of the situation, this creates the situation where one of us is lying. Without independent corroboration, it then devolves to credibility. The person using this technique has credibility, having managerial status, whereas I do not. The cleverness of this technique is, is that when my opponent lies, I am made out to be the liar.

If you could throw any light on this matter, I would be grateful. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wiliamson (talk • contribs) 11:16, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Surely there is an easy defense against this - only say things publicly (in this context) that you can back up with material proof. If you make half a dozen statements, this person nay-says all of them, then you reveal your material evidence for every single one of those points - then your opponent looks like a fool. This is akin to the Wikipedia policy of requiring all "facts" to be backed by solid references...and it's worth considering. You can even, perhaps, set up a trap wherein your opponent doesn't know that you have material evidence.

If you don't have solid evidence for some particular thing that you're saying, then make it clear that in this case, you're simply voicing an opinion rather than stating a fact. If you make that clear then you cannot be accused of lying - only, perhaps of having opinions are that are not shared by your opponent.

There is another subtle thing going on here though. The difference between lying and simply being wrong. Without seeing examples of what you are saying, it's hard to see how your opponent is able to convince people that you know that he's right and are deliberately making incorrect statements to the contrary - or that you are simply thinking incorrectly. But the distinction is irrelevant if you are, in fact correct and can prove it - since then you are demonstrably neither incorrect nor lying.

I don't know of a particular name for this tactic - but you might care to read "The Art of Being Right" - a book by Arthur Schopenhauer that contains 38 different tactics of this nature.

SteveBaker (talk) 13:45, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

First this is a very well worn dirty trick (see Gaslighting or even Workplace bullying), the Wikipedia dirty tricks article may not have gotten around to it yet. Second this seems just harmless ribbing or annoying at most however if you are afraid this will impact your livelihood I would take Steve Bakers first recommendation of say as least as possible when it is just you and this person. Depending on your state and if you fear job loss I would highly recommend buying a small preferably data usb type audio recorder, most models can go 30-40 hours of continuous taping and you can file them every week or so on your home computer. Just be sure you are in a state that allows for that by checking here.

Although I am sure you can read books and develop defenses and learn all about this tactic whoever is employing it is already well versed and experienced so if it is legal to do so I would just practice saying as little as possible and audio taping everything, although probably just fun and games this person might be a serial "get them fired" type and uses this tactic to do so. ^{Market St.⧏} _{⧐ Diamond Way} 14:02, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

But before you audio tape anyone without their knowledge, think about it very carefully and maybe get some outside legal advice. It stands to reason that you could be breaking all sorts of privacy laws, which could land you in very hot water. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 20:24, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Is there a wiki article about these islands which...

Yes, please, is there a wiki article/list about these islands which are separated by a boundary like New Guinea (2 countries: Indonesia and Papua New Guinea) or Cyprus (Cyprus and Turkey, ok, even if it's disputed...). Thanks in advance. 81.62.124.121 (talk) 15:00, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

There's List of divided islands, and Category:International islands. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 15:08, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks a lot! 83.79.188.86 (talk) 18:14, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Falling elevator

If you're in an elevator or other enclosed space that has failed and is in free fall towards the earth, what should you do in the few seconds you have to maximize your chances of survival? (yes I know elevators have multiple fail safes and other complicating factors, that's not what the question is about) 70.162.4.242 (talk) 16:42, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

See Parachute landing fall for the technique to adopt, and Free fall#Surviving falls for some historical examples. Basically, you want to (a) maximize the time between your body first contacting the ground and it becoming stationary, and (b) absorb the energy with the parts of your body that will::On an episode of the old TV show Man and the challenge, suffer least damage (ie, not your head). Tevildo (talk) 17:22, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

In an episode (probably the last of the series) of the old TV show "The Man and the Challenge," a man in a falling elevator jumped up and grabbed the ventilator fixture on the ceiling, and when the elevator hit bottom it helped to slow his descent as it pulled loose from the ceiling and the fan wires stretched and broke. If you were carrying something big and soft, placing it below you might help. Bent legs, and slapping the floor when you hit might help a little bit. Elevators since the late 19th century have had failsafe systems to hold them to the track if the support cables break, but there have been catastrophies where they fell many floors fast enough to kill the passengers. I seem to recall reading that that happened in an elevator of the Empire State Building when an airplane struck the building in the 1940's. 99.140.247.51 (talk) 20:03, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Indeed - see B-25 Empire State Building crash. Betty Lou Oliver (the operator of the elevator in question) holds the record for surviving the longest drop in an elevator, cushioned (slightly) by the cable and the air in the shaft. Tevildo (talk) 20:51, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

The online episode guides do not disclose which episode of Man and the challenge it was, but one other person posting on IMDB also recalls it: [4] 99.140.247.51 (talk) 20:14, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Why would slapping the floor help? What are you using to slap the floor with anyway? CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 01:15, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Spreads out the impact over a larger surface of your body, so no one part takes the brunt of it. Here's a demonstration. Granted, you'll be falling a lot harder in an elevator, but the gist should still apply. Doesn't mean you'll live, but better odds, I think. InedibleHulk (talk) 01:48, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

See the article that Tevildo posted; you roll and slap the ground with your side. It maximises the distance/time that your decelerate over, thus reduces the the forces imparted on your body. [User:Csmiller|CS Miller]] (talk) 11:25, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

How does one slap the ground with one's side? I don't know about the rest of you, but I have an arm and a leg inconveniently poking out from there. μηδείς (talk) 00:50, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

There was an episode of Mythbusters that dealt with the myth that you can jump just before impact and somehow help avoid injury...that definitely doesn't work (examination of the physics of the situation makes that a no-brainer!)

But consider this: In theory, if the elevator was truly in free-fall, then there may not be anything you can do - you're in free-fall too, your feet may no longer touch the floor - and if they do, there may be so little friction between feet and floor that you can't move around without launching yourself above the floor.

In practice, there would be some friction with the side-rails and whatever equipment was supposed to stop the this from happening (which presumably must have failed) would probably still be imposing some frictional force. So the most likely situation is that this is like being in a very low-g environment...maybe like being on the moon. Being able to jump to reach the ceiling vents only works if you can lower your body towards the floor with knees bent in order to make the jump...if you haven't trained in low-g, that might be surprisingly difficult. It seems to me that the likelyhood of an unprepared person successfully doing anything to materially alter their situation in the short time available is essentially zero...but adopting the bent-knee posture that parachutists use ought to help.

SteveBaker (talk) 13:50, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

I read a story a few days ago about a woman who fell down a lift shaft after the doors opened and she walked in blindly not noticing that the lift wasn't there. She fell six storeys, which is pretty much enough to kill someone, but she survived, having landed on a dead woman who had previously fallen in. So the trick might be to (rather selfishly) get on someone else's back in the lift while it's falling, presuming someone else is in it. KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 14:11, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Genetic engineering

Hello, has any scientist been able to genetically engineer a plant so that it has some of the characteristics of a mammal, bird or fish? Can they splice mammal, bird or fish genetic material to a plant, please? Thank you....SnoozertheCat

Back story: I was eating a freshly boiled red potato. I noticed that such potatoes, when eaten freshly boiled, seem to have some of the taste and aroma characteristics of a boiled egg. It occurred to me that perhaps they could genetically engineer plant foods with some of the nutritional or flavor characteristics of conventionally produced animal based foods for the ethical (vegan), religious, lower cost, or environmental (global warming) benefits. I know that they have spliced genetic material from the BTk bacteria to plants to produce plants with natural insect pest resistance.

This is my first time asking a question. Any tips or comments appreciated. I tried researching for the answer myself but have not had luck yet. Thanks everyone! — Preceding unsigned comment added by SnoozertheCat (talk • contribs) 18:41, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Fish tomato. -- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 18:44, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

you'd be amazed how many vegetables glow because of gene splicing. Shadowjams (talk) 21:34, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

For clarity, Shadowjams is I think referring to Green fluorescent protein and the various mutants thereof like Yellow fluorescent protein which come from the jelly fish Aequorea victoria and the various other fluorescence proteins most? of which come from some usually marine animal (particularly corals) e.g. dsRed which comes from a/various? Discosoma species [5], EosFP which comes from Lobophyllia hemprichii [6]; which are very widely used (particularly the original GFP) as a reporter gene (and also other purposes) in molecular biology including in plants and which will result in the fluorescence in the organism somewhere (depending on what you're trying to monitor or whatever). See for example the dsRed reference and of course the various articles. Note however while GFP and other fluorescence proteins have been inserted in to various animals for sale as pets, e.g. GloFish, I'm not aware that there have been many inserted in to plants intended for commercial sale. Nil Einne (talk) 05:08, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

behaviour of a murderer

consensus to close
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
so if you have committed a murder and it looks like no-one is going to discover that you did it, is it better to never tell anyone about it or to confess? because in one way you would have to always remember the time you murdered someone and say you feel really bad about it and so are haunted by guilt but if you confess they could hang you by the neck until you were dead? Horatio Snickers (talk) 20:35, 11 May 2013 (UTC) This is clearly a request for opinions, and as such beyond the scope of this reference desk. AndyTheGrump (talk) 20:58, 11 May 2013 (UTC) This user has been mentioned before as an SPI candidate. μηδείς (talk) 02:48, 12 May 2013 (UTC) EDIT - Removed "Container". What fresh madness is this? I am asking a question here - "If confessing to a crime would result in your execution, is it better to confess and die or remain silent and live a life of guilt"? And what is an SPI and when have I put myself forward as a "candidate" for one? Shotmed Paper Industries? Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence? I have proposed myself for the Wikiemedia Foundation board but had not the required number of edits. I do not expect to be treated with suspicion and disrespect on a page such as this one. Horatio Snickers (talk) 19:43, 12 May 2013 (UTC) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations --Ye Olde Luke (talk) 20:03, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Shoe Logos

I saw a list in Wikipedia that showed the most famous shoe designers. Is ther another list that also shows the logo's they use? I have a pair of shoes I got at an estate sale with only a logo of a Tourch(?) & would like to know who the designer is. Is there a web site I can go to the shows designer's logo's? Thanks to anyone who helps me. I've searched google but can't find what I'm looking for. Barb Greer (talk) 20:46, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

In general, no. Our fairuse rules allow us to use a a company's logo on that company's page, but not else where. Likewise, an album's cover can be used on a page about that album, but not on the bands discography page. CS Miller (talk) 21:54, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Torch (British usage) as in the electric thing that shines light in your eyes when you're wondering if the batteries are dead or Torch as in the stick with fire on the end of it? Can you take a picture of the logo and then post it somewhere on the Internet for us to see? Dismas|^(talk) 23:10, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

May 12

Are VA Medical Contracts between Doctor's and Veterans legal?

This question has been removed. Per the reference desk guidelines, the reference desk is not an appropriate place to request medical, legal or other professional advice, including any kind of medical diagnosis, prognosis, or treatment recommendations. For such advice, please see a qualified professional. If you don't believe this is such a request, please explain what you meant to ask, either here or on the Reference Desk's talk page.

This question has been removed. Per the reference desk guidelines, the reference desk is not an appropriate place to request medical, legal or other professional advice, including any kind of medical diagnosis or prognosis, or treatment recommendations. For such advice, please see a qualified professional. If you don't believe this is such a request, please explain what you meant to ask, either here or on the Reference Desk's talk page. --~~~~

Tevildo (talk) 00:25, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

USS General Black

I came to this country on September 9, 1949, on board a ship that was known to the passengers as the "SS General Black." I was a week short of my fifth birthday. We left Bremenhaven a few weeks earlier. Our ship landed in New Orleans on September 9. I have recently tried to find information about this ship. The closest I have come is an article in Wikipedia about the USS General W. M. Black (AP-135). The ship was later renamed the USAT General W. M. Black.

The article does not mention my landfall in New Orleans, but the ship did make some trips out of Bremenhaven. And she was active in that time period. I wonder if your contributors can verify whether or not it was this ship that arrived in New Orleans with DPs from German refugee camps on or about September 9, 1949.

There is one more thing I might mention. My parents told me that someone on the ship fell seriously ill during the voyage. That person was evacuated by a seaplane in the middle of the ocean. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jhershberg (talk • contribs) 04:26, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

If you are looking for info on the ship itself, a Google search turns up lots of hits for "S. S. General Black" as the first ship to bring DPs to the USA after the war. Also be sure to run a separate search on Google Books. If you want info on people aboard ship, try searching on Ancestry.com, which has extensive online passenger lists of ships arriving in the United States; these records usually contain the names, ages, and place of origin or destination. Textorus (talk) 05:17, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Maybe the Port of New Orleans has records or can put you in touch with a historian. Clarityfiend (talk) 08:53, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Can anyone thing of organisations who might already have collected information such as this?

If you check with the Red Cross, they will also put you in touch with other people who may have been on the ship and have been searching for you. Polypipe Wrangler (talk) 13:25, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Resources for Small Business Owners( United States)

What are some reputable resources out there to help small business owners in the United States. I want to eventually start a small business. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.204.144.195 (talk) 05:55, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

You can probably find lots of information and resource links at the SBA web page: http://www.sba.gov/home RudolfRed (talk) 06:35, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

It might help if you told us what type of small business. Lots of professions have organizations to help out newcomers. Dismas|^(talk) 19:06, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Design of jacket lapels

The article about jacket lapels refers to the peaked lapel as the "double breasted style lapel", although this is misleading. Single breasted jackets with a peaked lapel do exist, as well as double breasted jackets with a notched lapel. Gary Allan is seen wearing a double breasted jacket with a notched lapel on the cover of his third album, Smoke Rings in the Dark. What is the reason for this? 108.0.244.168 (talk) 09:03, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Humanity. ¦ Reisio (talk) 10:58, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

I'm not clear what the "this" is in your question. Are you asking why somebody designed a notched lapel, and other people started wearing it? Or about how the article came to have the contents it has? --ColinFine (talk) 14:54, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Referring to a peaked lapel as a "double breasted style lapel" appears to be a misnomer. I was referring to how the jacket lapel article came to have its contents. 108.0.244.168 (talk) 19:08, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying. You can look at the history of the article by picking its History tab; or you can search its versions for when particular words were introduced using the tool called WikiBlame. --ColinFine (talk) 22:30, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

As a long qualified bespoke tailor; and assuming I have understood the question correctly; what you are asking us to do is to define "fashion". All human clothing originated as a result of the need to protect the body from the elements, which explains why, say, Arabs wear mainly white loose-fitting, flowing robes with sufficient material to provide shelter from the sun, rain, and wind. Eskimos, on the other hand wear mainly fur clothing, thus utilising the available natural fabrics to provide the warmth that permits them to exist where they do. Another formative reason for clothing was (and remains) to provide for modesty. So once all of these pre-requisites have been met; protection, availability of suitable materials, and modesty; we are left with the vagaries of fashion which, apart from the necessities of military or religious or academic apparel, leaves only the desire to look different, for the purpose of display. So my double-breasted jacket with single breasted type lapels may well be more fashionable "this year" than your single breasted jacket with double-breasted type lapels - but to answer the OP, there are simply no rules - and in my experience, that disregard for conformity, is growing ever more personal and diverse. Which is great news for the designers who lead fashion victims by the nose - all the way to the bank. 77.99.122.161 (talk) 12:11, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

youtube

Since I have a wide range of different interests, I am wondering whether it would be allowed/possible to set up two or three different youtube accounts to separate my videos, and following on from that, whether there is any way of changing my username of my one current account to reflect this, rather than removing everything and starting a new account under a slightly different name.

213.104.128.16 (talk) 18:26, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

I don't know the answer, but googling "youtube multiple accounts" produces results that suggest it might be possible. Why not ask your question on the YouTube help forum at google.com? You should find people there who are familiar with the workings of YouTube and can point you in the direction of the answers you need. - Karenjc 18:40, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

That's something that would probably be covered by the terms of use. You can find a link to this at the bottom on the youtube home page RudolfRed (talk) 18:42, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes - try asking at the YouTube forums - though I suspect that what you may need is separate channels rather than accounts. AndyTheGrump (talk) 18:43, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

my experience of asking for help with anything google related has never been good, hence why I came here first, but maybe I could have a look around those places. Though I suppose that would mean, if I created separate channels, anyone that follows one interest of mine would know about what other, potentially embarrassing, stuff I get up to under a different name? 213.104.128.16 (talk) 18:57, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

I have multiple YT accounts, and I do that by having separate email addresses to login with. KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 23:56, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes if you want multiple accounts, you'd need to register separate Google accounts whether with a unique non Google email for each account or a unique Google email address (i.e. unique account name). You'd need to check the Google TOS to see if this is allowed but I suspect it is provided you don't do anything dodgy e.g. upvote your own videos, report as spam multiple times etc. Speaking generally, Google seems to have been making it easy to login in and use multiple Google accounts in both browsers and much of their Android software so it would seem a bit strange if this is technically forbidden but again, you'd need to check the TOS yourself to be sure. Nil Einne (talk) 05:23, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

I'll check up on that, then. Meanwhile, though, I still have the problem that my current only account is registered under my general online username, but is targeted at a single particular interest, is there any way of changing this without deleting all my videos and uploading them again to a new account under a more specific name? 213.104.128.16 (talk) 10:18, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Automobile Gasoline Storage

Everyone I asked, gave me a different answer!

In the USA, how long can you store Automobile Gasoline in approved heavy plastic containers before it goes bad?

Many thanks in advance. Bluebottle103 (talk) 20:34, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

The article at Gasoline#Stability says it stays good indefinately if stored airtight. RudolfRed (talk) 21:00, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Gasoline doesn't really "go bad" (it's been underground for 60 million years, after all) - what happens is that (a) it evaporates, and (b) it gets water in it, both of which can be prevented by storing it in airtight containers, as noted above. Tevildo (talk) 23:34, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

That's crude oil underground, not gasoline. Gasoline is extracted from it, with additives thrown in to make cars run better on it. I'd expect gasoline to remain flammable indefinitely, but it's lubricating and detergent additives may lose effectiveness, with time. This isn't likely to be a problem with one tankful, but might if your car ran on nothing but old gas for years. StuRat (talk) 06:12, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Gasoline is a complicated substance - it has many fractions of different molecular weights. The problem with "old gas" or "bad gas" is that the lighter, more volatile fractions have evaporated away. The resulting gasoline will still propel a car - but you may find that the car is harder to start and that your fuel consumption goes up - both common symptoms of "bad gas". I agree that storing gasoline in a tightly sealed container would hypothetically prevent the lighter fractions from evaporating - but gas cans have venting systems to avoid them bloating and splitting when the weather is hot, or if they're stored in the trunk of a hot car. Also, those very volatile fractions of the gasoline can actually evaporate THROUGH the plastic of a plastic storage tank.[7] So you can't actually find safe, legal gas storage tanks that are truly airtight.

So the advice to store gas in an airtight container would work - except that there is no such thing as a safe airtight container when it comes to gasoline. Maybe an old-style steel jerrycan might be strong enough to not need venting...but I'm not sure. It would be dangerous to try to store gas in an unapproved container - don't do that!

The best advice is to keep "emergency" gasoline for only a month or so - then the next time you fill up your car, tip the contents of the can into your car's gas tank and refill it - so you never have gasoline that's more than a month old. It's harder when you're storing gasoline for lawnmowers and other 2-stroke engines because you have to mix oil in with it - you can't pour that into your car's tank, and it may sit around for months during the winter when you're not doing yard work.

SteveBaker (talk) 13:35, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

If you're interested in long-term storage of gasoline, they make additives which supposedly improve the storage characteristics. One brand I'm aware of is "Sta-bil" [8]) and their website says "Stored fuel [without additive] can go bad in as little as 30-60 days causing gum, varnish and corrosion to build up in the fuel lines and engine. " and "STA-BIL® Fuel Stabilizer will keep fuel fresh for up to 12 months, guaranteed." Granted, they are trying to sell you something, but it's one perspective. -- 205.175.124.30 (talk) 20:41, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

From MSDS: 95% Hydrotreated light naphthenic distillate solvent extract and 5% Trade secret additive/ingredient (which most people believe is red dye plus something to absorb water).

My bet is that the "light naphthenic distillate basically contains all of the stuff that would normally evaporate from the gasoline and the 'secret' ingredient absorbs water and settles to the bottom of the tank. SteveBaker (talk) 03:41, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Old gasoline forms undesirable substances which can clog gas engines:[9]. Manufacturers of engines advise against using old gasoline: [10], [11]. Edison (talk) 16:43, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

May 13

Can't remember movie

I am wracking my brain to locate this U.S. movie I saw as a little kid. It was about deprogramming from a cult. Best memory is that the mother engages a man to kidnap her daughter back from a cult and deprogram her. It had to be either seventies or very early eighties. Also, My best memory is that the actress who played the mother had these incredible crazy blue eyes, if that helps at all.--71.190.242.180 (talk) 03:09, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Ticket to Heaven fits the time frame, but it's a man who was deprogrammed: [12]. StuRat (talk) 06:22, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

IMDB has a list of cult/deprogramming movies. None of the movies fit both your description and time frame, but it might be worth a look.--Wikimedes (talk) 07:16, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

"Can Ellen be Saved?" seems like it fits. 1974, and Louise Fletcher has blue eyes. InedibleHulk (talk) 02:10, May 14, 2013 (UTC)

You Know That Show is a section of TV Tropes dedicated to finding things that are on the tip of your mind but you can't access them. Create a free account and post everything you can remember here; they ave a large viewer base and can find truly obscure media. --Ye Olde Luke (talk) 00:15, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Was it anything like Groundskeeper Willie's part in The Simpsons episode The Joy of Sect? I'd always got the feeling that was referencing something, but the Internet is no help, so far. Might be a clue, though. InedibleHulk (talk) 02:06, May 14, 2013 (UTC)

problem with toilet float

hello, i am having problems with a toilet float, its sitting too high and making my toilet run 24/7. how do i fix this? heres some pics [13] [14] note the water is falling into the overflow tube. thanskBanan292 (talk) 05:09, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Try googling "fix toilet float". μηδείς (talk) 05:35, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

I've removed the resolved tag the previous responder added, because they did not resolve the problem. StuRat (talk) 06:01, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

I've had this problem myself. Here are a few possible solutions:

1) Make sure the float isn't waterlogged. If it has a hole in it, you may want to replace it.

2) If it's the type where the float is on a horizontal stalk (which it is, in your case), you can bend it so it sticks down further into the water.

3) Alternatively, you can raise the height of the overflow drain, by inserting a rolled-up plastic sheet, epoxied to it on the inside. Of course, you can't raise the water level too much this way, or it will overflow the tank. This has the advantage of providing a stronger flush.

4) You can combine these solutions. StuRat (talk) 06:01, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Flush the toilet, then try holding the float up as high as it will easily go for about half a minute, if this doesn't stop the water running you will need a new washer. Turn off the water to the cistern, undo the 4 screws on top of the valve, remove the washer you will find underneath, and take it to a good hardware store to make sure you get a new one exactly the same. Put it all back together with the new washer and turn the water back on. You may have to adjust the little white plastic screw to set the water-level, but best to change the washer first. Set the water-level to be at least half an inch below the top of the overflow tube. Good Luck. 122.108.189.192 (talk) 06:58, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Can't you just adjust the height of the float using that white plastic flat head screw at the end of the float bar? I'm sure I have done this at some stage. I could be wrong though. 59.167.253.199 (talk) 23:44, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

dirty tricks (2)

legal question asked twice
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
I have accessed your article on dirty tricks, but it appeared to be mainly concerned with the political sphere. What I want to enquire about is a tactic I have been subjected to, and if you could direct me to where I could find further information about it? such as, who (broadly) originated this tactic, who generally practices it, and who (broadly) are the targets of the technique. Until I experienced it ( and I am 60 years old and well read) I have never come across this tactic before. This is what happened.. The person I am interacting with, whatever I say, claims the opposite. In the absence of a third party to ascertain the facts of the situation, this creates a situation where one of us is lying. Without independent corroboration, it then devolves to credibility. The person using this technique has credibility, having managerial status, whereas I do not. The cleverness of the technique is, is that when my opponent lies, I am made out to be the liar. If you could throw any light on this I would be grateful.Wiliamson (talk) 08:42, 13 May 2013 (UTC) You asked this identical question 2 days ago. Just scroll up for some responses. -- Jack of Oz [Talk] 08:54, 13 May 2013 (UTC) For one example, I could not ensure that the events took place in public because they unavoidably occurred in private. I will explain. My husband died. I immediately left our flat to live somewhere else, but returned after a week to inform the authorities to stop his pension and so forth. The file containing all his documents was missing. The flat had been entered with a key, and I had both of them. My daughter-in-law is the sole executor of my husbands estate, so I assumed she had helped herself. But she sent a text the next day, asking when I returned, could I give her the documents. A burglar would have forced entry and taken items of value. These documents were only of use to my daughter-in-law. In denying her action, she makes it look as if I am responsible for the missing documents (which are not missing - she has them but it pretending not to). Wiliamson (talk) 09:04, 13 May 2013 (UTC) Sorry. Wikipedia cannot give advice of a legal nature. We cannot provide any answers to help you in this matter. See Wikipedia:Legal disclaimer. --Jayron32 11:52, 13 May 2013 (UTC) I agree any answer would be either legal or criminal advice, and am closing this as asked twice μηδείς (talk) 03:40, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

missing question

a year or so ago, I asked a question on here, trying to find a latin translation of Montaigne's famous quote 'I have gathered a garland of other men's flowers, and nothing is mine but the cord which binds them' and I received what I thought was a very nice answer, which now I cannot remember. However, the question does not seem to show up whatever search terms I use, or even to looking through the entire language desk archive for the last couple of years. any idea where I might find this question and answer now? I think, chances were, at that time I was editing under my university accommodation IP address too, which I cannot remember. HS7 (talk) 11:02, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

It's possible you've already done this, but here is a search for every use of the word "Montaigne" in the reference desk back to 2007. None of them also contain the word "garlands", though some of them request clarification of specific quotes. There are few enough returns for you to search yourself if you haven't already. --Ye Olde Luke (talk) 02:31, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

• A search on "latin montaigne" yields nothing. A search on "garland flowers: yields: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Language/2011_July_5#the_fauna_equivalent_of_.27anthology.27.3F I suggest the OP choose his key words and use the search function at the top of the page. μηδείς (talk) 03:44, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

yea, I've tried plenty of different search terms, including spelling mistakes, it just doesn't show up. HS7 (talk) 10:10, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Sealing wooden decking.

Never having been disappointed by Wikipedia responses in the past, here goes again. We live in the UK (Scotland - cold, wet, windy, damp, snowy, frosty, icy - you get the picture)? We bought this bungalow (single storey house) 8 years ago and because my wife suffers from arthritis (both types), I built a sizeable decking around the rear and side aspects at the same level as the house floor so that egress from the house onto the decking was easier than the previously existing steps down to the garden/drive. Since then, I have been careful to treat the decking twice a year with a proprietary sealant after power washing the winter sludge off the surface. So far so good. Wood is clean, sludge and rot free, and water/rain resistant. But yesterday when I went to my local DIY store to purchase several gallons of my usual sealant I was horrified to see the price had gone up to in excess of £40 per gallon which is more than I want to, or can realistically afford to pay. But here's the thing - whenever I have previously applied the sealant, there is a very strong smell of paraffin/kerosene, which is a very thin oil, so much so that my wife, who is also asthmatic, cannot bear the smell, and has to go indoors. So, my question is, can I use paraffin/kerosene (which is much cheaper than my usual proprietary sealant) to seal the decking? All responses will be much appreciated. Thanks in anticipation. 77.99.122.161 (talk) 11:57, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

I guess everyone will immediately point out the dangers of splashing paraffin all over the place, but I'll assume your a really sensible chap that knows what he's about. In principle I can see little wrong with sealing your decking with paraffin, as you have noticed it is the medium used for many decking sealers. The only slight reservation I have is that it won't contain any fungicide, micro-fungi being the principal cause of wood rot, however paraffin may be fungicidal in its own right and in any case should provide reasonably good penetrative water protection. The other thing I wonder about is that if paraffin is suitable why isn't it used more commonly. Finally, another option might be dressing your deck every other year, to me annually seems super cautious - even in Scotland. Richard Avery (talk) 13:10, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Annually? The OP seems even more cautious since they indicated they're doing it biannually. Nil Einne (talk) 13:56, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

It could be pitch_oil. Nasty stuff but it works. Caution - some are poisonous. Some have a black residue that stains everything - carpets, clothes, shoes and pets. Linseed_oil#Wood_finish is safe but it does not have any anti-mildew properties. 196.214.78.114 (talk) 13:18, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

I just looked up Wickes and they were selling a decking seal 5L for £20 and two others one at £28 and £35 with a standard delivery charge of £5.95 if you haven't one in the area, so I'm sure you can do better than £40. Dmcq (talk) 15:37, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

By the way I don't know about decking but I know community and sports floors aren't normally resealed more than once a year and they can get quite heavy use. The surface can get worn away by sand from children's playgroups if not brushed away carefully or from tap dancing but your domestic use wouldn't affect a hall surface much at all. Dmcq (talk) 16:20, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Give us a chance. All things are relative. What was the 'brand' of your now overpriced sealant so that we can make comparisons. In the good old-days, linseed oils, with a little arsenic and copper served well but if you want a modern alternative to suit your pocket, we need more info ( I,e. Like the brand you used – also, your age – and timber used in construction). If your in your early thirty’s (and built it out of cheap Scandinavian Deal) (and intend to live there all your life) then best sealant may not be the same one I would choose. If your in your late 80's and built it out of green oak and only want it to last only for the next 20 years -then that’s a different matter.Aspro (talk) 19:18, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

Soaking wood in a flammable liquid close to your house sounds really, really dangerous and I think it will do you little good. Kerosene or similar liquids are mostly used as solvents in deck sealants, while the active ingredient is some kind of oil or wax that dries or oxidizes to form the protective layer. We don't have an article about deck sealant yet, but wood finishing has some information that might be useful. Sjö (talk) 07:37, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Jewish connection to Trail of Tears

I heard a Pastor say DNA of Jewish blood has been found in Cherokee Indians and in Oklahoma. Somehow the trail of tears is connected and that the Phoenecians (Lebanon)were here before Columbus.Is this true ? 68.53.174.170 (talk) 19:46, 13 May 2013 (UTC)Delores Christofferson...5/14/'13

There was a good 200 years of European/Indian interbreeding before the Jackson administration. It would be surprising if there weren't "Jewish" Y chromosomes and mitochondria from conversos and others. μηδείς (talk) 20:35, 13 May 2013 (UTC)

I'd ask the pastor for his source. HiLo48 (talk) 07:10, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

The good pastor has probably been reading one of the many fringe theories of Pre-Columbian trans-oceanic contact that have circulated in the United States since colonial times; and specifically, he may be thinking of some conjecture about the unproven theory of Phoenician discovery of the Americas, or the perennial speculation about the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel, or if he is affiliated with the LDS Church, of the Mormon doctrine that Israelites colonized the Americas, or perhaps he has read something about the Bat Creek inscription hoax in Tennessee, which purported to show a Hebrew phrase in Cherokee letters, or some other archaeological forgery in the United States. Or maybe someone's come up with a brand new speculation based on vague, unprovable DNA theories. There are so many of these pseudoscientific claims for the origin of Native Americans, ignoring the fascinating scientific record, but none have ever been shown to be conclusively and indisputably true. Textorus (talk) 15:24, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

May 14

An inspiring movie in the 60's

As a young teenager back in the early 60's I watched a movie which I did enjoyed a lot. It was in English and was centred around the time when cavaliers were around. I can vaguely remember the story centred upon a man who appeared to be fightnig for justice against a corrupt establishment and he was helped by a beautiful lady who was somewhat linked to the ruling elite. After many escapades the man was caught. At this point I can't remember much of the plot as I was with my girlfriend at that time. However, I seem to recall that the man's twin brother (obviously played by the same actor) appeared on the scene and who appeared to be well heeled and well attired. There were further action and a court case? the twin who was incarcerated was sentenced and put to death. But the ending of the movie showed a very happy lady joyfully hugging the twin who was supposed to have been hanged, crying 'I can't believe you are you, and you are alive!' (or something to that effect). Apparently the other twin had exchanged places with his condemned twin brother so that he could be free and united with his beloved. I know this is a big ask, but I hope somehow, somewhere in this world, someone would have seen this movie too, and maybe remember the title. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Martin Hiew (talk • contribs) 07:07, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

I don't know the answer I'm afraid, but I want to hear more about what you were doing with your girlfriend which made you miss the film :) --Viennese Waltz 09:22, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Two long shots: The Man in the Iron Mask (1939 film) or The Corsican Brothers (1941 film)? --Viennese Waltz 10:00, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

There's definitely no trial or noble exchanging of places in The Corsican Brothers (1941). In fact, one brother tries to do in the other. The plot of The Man in the Iron Mask also has the brothers at each other's throat. Also, neither film is set in England. The closest match I can come up with is a film version of A Tale of Two Cities, with Sidney Carton being very noble indeed, but again no trial and no England. Clarityfiend (talk) 11:16, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Have to sign off now, but you could try browsing List of actors who have played multiple roles in the same film. Clarityfiend (talk) 11:18, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

I realize that neither of my suggestions fits the description, but I thought I would mention them anyway as they seem to be the only swashbuckling films about twins. Also, he wrote "in English", not "in England". --Viennese Waltz 12:11, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Cavalier would mean England almost assuredly, although it's not impossible the OP is using the word incorrectly and means knights or cowboys or some other type of rider (as the word comes from the french for rider, and is similar to the french word for knight, and may well be related to these concepts in most romance languages). 64.201.173.145 (talk) 14:56, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

I think he's using it in a non-country-specific sense to mean swashbuckler, but we'll find out if he ever comes back. --Viennese Waltz 15:11, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

• How about The Prisoner of Zenda? There is also The Prince and the Pauper, but the former seems more likely. Looie496 (talk) 14:45, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
• A Tale of Two Cities. --Onorem♠Dil 14:49, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

I'd missed Clarityfiend's response. I'd think it almost has to be at least an adaptation of some sort for the story. --Onorem♠Dil 14:54, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks all for the suggestions. I am afraid none of them fits in. Yes, the film was in English though not necessarily had any connections to England. It was definitely European in setting with temperate looking flora. The period costume suggested an era akin to The Three Muskeeters i.e. with swashbuckling duels and cavalier attitudes. The rendering of the actors hair seems to suggest that the film was made in the 50's or early 60's. One of the most memorial scene I can recalled and which had the movie audience laughing was when the newly arrived twin walked hesitantly along a corridor (with his back to the camera) towards what appear to be a dead end and the camera then panned right to have him emerged from the another side looking sheepish. I can also recall a scene where fighting took place around a huge made make earthern or concrete mound that was shaped like a skull (or maybe my imagination ran riot at that time). I wish I had concentrated more on watching the movie but my girlfriend had other ideas - like exchanging saliva. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.41.193.62 (talk) 04:02, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

One-child policy

Am I right in understanding that if the one-child policy, which I understand is in used in some Asian countries, was to become world-wide, it would eventually lead to the extinction of the human race?

The way I see it, if a woman is only allowed to have one child, then each generation is half the size of the previous one, as men can't have children. And that's not accounting for infertile women, women who choose not to have children, women who can't find a mate, or women who die before childbirth. Even if we relax this policy to allow one child per family and allow women to remarry, the number of women who remarry will still be less than the number of men altogether, which will also lead to each generation being smaller than the previous one.

So am I right in understanding that in order for the human race to survive, at least some women must have multiple children? JIP | Talk 17:16, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

To maintain population levels (not taking into account immigration and such), there must be as many births as deaths. If every family of two had only 1 child, there would eventually be not enough children to have more children. See Population stabilization and the various links therein for more details. Mingmingla (talk) 17:56, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

The replacement rate is somewhere just over 2.1 children per couple; the .1 to cover sterility/early death/homosexuality in some children. μηδείς (talk) 18:21, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

• (I'm retracting everything I said here, I'd forgotten that humans aren't self-pollinating :)No to your last question, at least conceptually. You're forgetting grandchildren. Humans are not semelparous; we do not die after reproduction. In some situations, a single child per couple could sustain the population at viable level. Consider if every woman had a child at age 15. Then woman A would be a grandmother by 30, a great-grandmother by 45, etc. Since A's first daughter will also be a grandmother when A is 45, there are potentially many humans added to the population at the time of A's death, and the population would grow. Population dynamics is a very rich topic, and it cannot be summed up so simply. Note that the replacement rate quoted by Medeis makes several assumptions to get there. UK replacement fertility rate is 2.075, but it would go down substantially if they started having babies younger. SemanticMantis (talk) 18:56, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
  • • Rather decent of you, Semantic. μηδείς (talk) 01:47, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Given the retraction, I am happy to say never mind. Yes, when I said "somewhere just over 2.1," and mentioned reasons why some children won't reproduce I was mentioning several of those assumptions. But a population that halves every generation is going extinct, no matter how slowly or quickly it wants to do so by postponing or front-loading childbirth. Replacement rate cannot drop below 2.0 no matter what.μηδείς (talk) 19:08, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

• If every woman had a single child and there was no sex selection of babies, the human race would go extinct in approximately a thousand years. However, it would take a couple of hundreds just for the population to drop back to the level in the year 1900 -- so the problem is not one of vast urgency. Looie496 (talk) 19:21, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Note that there's an absurd assumption in the question. That assumption is that such a policy would be maintained as population levels dropped. The very reason for such a policy is to prevent overpopulation, so, once this is no longer a problem, the policy would be eased or eliminated. Also note that exceptions to the one-child policy exist, and there are also those who don't comply, and these affect the numbers. StuRat (talk) 19:27, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

It should be noted that a) the one-child policy in China is not enforced in lightly populated rural areas, especially among non-Han indigenous populations. b) Because of concerns over sex-based discrimination, the policy allows many families to have a second child if the first is a girl (though if you have two girls, tough luck) b) Violations of the one-child policy require the violating family to pay a fine. This means that rich people get to have larger families than poor people, as a practical matter, and may thus be seen to represent a sort of economic eugenics. So there are ample opportunities in China to have more than one child, according to the Wikipedia article and sources it cites, only about 1/3rd of China is under the strict one-child limit. --Jayron32 19:35, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

It should also be noted that the policy is not so much a case of "you're not permitted to have more than one child", rather one of "if you do exceed your quota, you will have to pay a fine". For many, this is a real barrier, but for others, not. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 21:10, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

For poor people it is a real barrier. For the rich, not so much. That's why the reference to Eugenics, in that it allows China to alter its demographic makeup by limiting the ability of its underclasses to reproduce while allowing the rich and powerful to do so. --Jayron32 21:17, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Problem is, there's always some group at the bottom of the ladder. They become the nouveau pauvre. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 21:44, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

You've got it a little backwards on eugenics. Eugenics is about attempting to improve the gene pool. Actual implementations end up being classist for various reasons. The policy you are talking about is not about trying to improve the gene pool, it is about trying to limit overall population growth. Its actual implementation also ends up being classist for various reasons. But that shared classism does not make it eugenics. They are their own, separate things even though they may have classist dimensions. (Similarly, a regressive tax structure can be classist, as well, but it is not eugenics just because it is classist.) --Mr.98 (talk) 13:16, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

A system which would eventually kill off the poor and leave only the rich, is big trouble. There has to be someone around to do actual work. So it's not likely to be allowed to get to that point. There will always be enough poor folks kept around to prevent the rich from having to get their own hands dirty. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:40, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

I strongly disagree - it wouldn't do that. The likely consequence is a reduction in the number of the poorest people - and a redistribution of the wealth of the very rich into multiple children - and if the fines are stiff enough - more income for the state that can be invested in construction projects and other things that will provide more income for the poor.

Imagine a couple who are worth (say) a million dollars who break the law, pay the fines and have four kids - then the kids stand to inherit $250,000 each - which results in one very rich family becoming four merely comfortably off families, and in the generation following that, a dozen or more people in the middle classes. If the original millionaires could only have one child, then two people's life's worth goes to one child who will therefore be even richer than either of the two parents individually were - and then if rich kids marry rich kids (as is often the case) - then you get richer and richer family empires as wealth gets consolidated into fewer and fewer hands.

The reverse happens with poor families, where one child gets all the benefits from two parents instead of the family vegetable lot and the four goats being split amongst two or more children. When poor kids marry other poor kids, combining the vegetable lots and goat herds of two sets of parents greatly improves the prospects of families in the next generation and pushes them out of poverty and into the middle classes.

So over the long run, allowing the rich to have more children is going to tend to even out the differences between rich and poor - not accentuate them.

The problem is in the short term - where one child has to look after both parents into their old age - which is easy for rich children - but difficult for the poor. But in a one-child society, allowing richer people to get away with having more than one child doesn't hurt the poor people to any degree whatever - even in the short term. It's also unrelated to Eugenics...it's quite the opposite in fact. SteveBaker (talk) 16:49, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

No, reducing poverty is a noble goal. However, the question becomes how to reduce poverty in a way that is just. There are all kinds of possible solutions to getting rid of poverty, but breeding out the poor people doesn't sound to me like a terribly moral way to do it. It's picking winners and losers based on accident of birth. If you get born poor, fuck you, you don't get to have the same rights as those who had the good fortune to be born rich. You could save the step of waiting a few generation, and just shoot all the poor people in the head. That'd get rid of them too. The question is not whether or not the elimination of poverty is a universal good, the question is how to accomplish that task in a way that is just and fair and right. The reason that it is related to Eugenics is that it involves the use of breeding to "weed out" societal undesirables. True, it doesn't use genetics as the deciding factor, it uses socioeconomic status. But the process and results are the same. You're picking winners and deciding who gets to breed and who doesn't. Doesn't sound to me like a very equitable way to run a society. --Jayron32 17:50, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

I agree that it's not moral - but that wasn't the question. There are plenty of immoral things that will work anyway. I argue that forcing poor people to only have one child and allowing rich people to have more children - whilst highly immoral, will none-the-less be effective in reducing the disparity between rich and poor over the long run. Shooting a bunch of poor people still leaves you with a bunch of poor people - but adjusting the relative birth rates should (in principle) result in all people - rich and poor alike heading towards the middle classes. The problem (aside from the undeniable moral issues) is that in the short term, it's a total disaster...as the Chinese are discovering. SteveBaker (talk) 19:22, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

No, killing all of the poor people leaves you with no more poor people. That's what happens when you kill someone. They stop being people and start being corpses. It solves the problem. --Jayron32 19:37, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

With a world population of 7 billion and an average generation time of 20 years, the idealized math says we'd have 33 generations or 660 years before going extinct. But that assumes that every woman has exactly one child that survives to procreate. The true rate would be faster than that - especially in the last few generations where fragmentation of the population across the globe and the random nature of how many boys and girls are born would greatly hasten things. 500 years is a more realistic number.

But it's worth noting that we'd be in deep trouble long before extinction. As long-lived animals, the elderly depend on the youth to a greater or lesser extent to support them. If there are twice as many old people as young (and that's a very generous number!) then our health-care systems, farming, you name it would collapse in just a couple of generations. The problems we're entering into as a result of the aging of baby-boomers would be chicken-feed compared to a fully enforced global "one child per woman" rule. Add to that the biasses inherent in some cultures to demand boy children, then the problems with an excess of males in the population can make things spiral out of control even faster. This phenomenon is already noticeable in both China and India.

Clearly there are far too many humans on this planet right now - but to get that down to a sensible number, you have to make the decrease happen very slowly.

SteveBaker (talk) 20:36, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

The problem of caring for the elderly in a one-child-policy system is covered by the 4-2-1 phenomenon; the Wikipedia article is pretty stubby, but the concept is also discussed in more detail in the one-child policy article. --Jayron32 21:02, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

According to Demographics of China, the population growth rate is currently around +0.5% / year, with 1.5 children per woman. That tells you something about how the Chinese policy and its various exceptions have played out in practice. Since 1.5 children per woman is still below the replacement rate, China's growth should eventually turn negative (assuming no further changes in policy) once the cohort from the population boom years (e.g. 1950s - 1960s) start to die off in earnest. Dragons flight (talk) 02:02, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

641 tested recipes

I have a recipe book that was printed in 1954, Is this something anyone would like to have — Preceding unsigned comment added by Littlealabama (talk • contribs) 18:48, 14 May 2013 (UTC) It is a Sealtest Kitchen recipe book — Preceding unsigned comment added by Littlealabama (talk • contribs) 18:51, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Amazon.com shows 22 used copies for sale, starting at $0.01 (plus $3.99 for shipping). Looie496 (talk) 19:13, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Contact an organization like Freecycle http://www.freecycle.org/ and offer the item. Most libraries will also take and then resell used books in good condition. μηδείς (talk) 19:18, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

I just discovered http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cookbook:Table_of_Contents recently that is free and handy.--Canoe1967 (talk) 19:20, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

The user seems to be trying to give one away, not find one. μηδείς (talk) 22:21, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

PICTURE

Here's one!

I searched up a picture of the lanco hills skyline but i dont know if its legal to use it — Preceding unsigned comment added by Evilan123 (talk • contribs) 22:35, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

If in doubt, it probably is not - i.e. it's copyrighted. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:05, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

I am not sure where Lanco Hills is, but in the US copyright is now assumed automatically unless explicitly renounced or otherwise forbidden as with federal government documents and works. μηδείς (talk) 01:53, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Well, there's at least one that can be legally used (inserted at right). Looie496 (talk) 02:43, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

May 15

Public transportation bus start to operating the automated annunciator system

Roughly when did the public buses started to do the automated annunicator system, in the case when you go on the bus and approach intersection,you often hear "Now approaching Crown Valley Pky and Marguerite Pky, transfer points through routes 82, 85, 212, and 216", or "Now approaching Alton Pky and Jeronimo Rd, TP through routes 86 and 211" or "Now approaching Culver Dr and Walnut Av, TP through rotues 66 and 79". I know in Orange County Trans. Authority, the bus systems does those, but I don't know when did these started. 1997, did it have that program, I remembered I start to take OCTA bus in Summer 2007, I didn't remember these buses have auto-announcement broadcast, but 2009 when i start to start bus, it had that. i start to learn more about bus and every buses have 4 digit pin code like 7553, 7545, 7515, 7575, 7568 (I think these are new fashioned buses) 5666, 5596, 5673, 5572, 5536 are like these types. I know the 22xx or 23xx are the cutaway buses with speakers on only the 53xx don't have the broadcast announcement systems. Is it only Orange County which maintains these system or Los Angeles County buses some of it have these systems. I thought all Los Angeles County buses are cutaway styles, so I doubt any of these LA buses operates announcement autobroadcasts. What about San Diego County? Any buses over there does automated announcements?--69.233.254.115 (talk) 03:30, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Are you asking specifically about Los Angeles buses? Because public transport all over the world used automated announcements. Adam Bishop (talk) 10:32, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes, it seems clear to me that he is asking only for information about Los Angeles buses. --Viennese Waltz 11:14, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

In Israel, the Egged bus company started approximately a year ago on the intercity line I travel on the northwest coast, and possibly elsewhere in the country. Nateev Express, a local company serving outlying areas, has yet to add these announcements. I would suppose older model buses can be retrofitted with the necessary equipment. It seems this in (tardy) compliance with accessibility laws to benefit passengers with visual impairments, as at around the same time, intersections in the town of Nahariya got audio-equipped notification systems for pedestrians at crosswalks, that at the press of a button announce the location and direction of the traffic signal.-- Deborahjay (talk) 10:50, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

A similar system has been in use in London since 2007. See London iBus system. Alansplodge (talk) 17:39, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

I'm seeing that the system is actually called "Automatic Voice Annunciation". But I can't seem to find any SoCal archival news for it. ^{Market St.⧏} _{⧐ Diamond Way} 18:42, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

With the buses in Orange County, when did they start announcement, the in formations are found Orange County Transportation Authority#Current, is just quite a bit for me to memorize. The table said 2101-2161 started in 2000 along with 7301-7320, and 2200-2399 started in 2001 along with 7401-7420, but the 5500-5678 and 7500-7592 started in 2007 to 2008, these are the ones I get most of the time.The 5121-5150 are the models made in 2008 --69.233.254.115 (talk) 23:04, 15 May 2013 (UTC)