User talk:Montanabw

WikiStress level

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Make articles, not wikidrama

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This user replies where s/he likes, and is inconsistent in that respect.

User page Talk page Good and Featured articles Barnstars The DYK Corral Toolbox Advice About Magic unicorns

Sandbox invite

Anyone may play in my sandboxes, in the archive list to the right, IF you promise to behave. This means:

• No kicking sand
• No hitting other people over the head with toys
• No pooping, even if you are a cat and neatly cover it up!
• It's my sandbox, so I can throw you out if you misbehave!  :-)

Typical talk page discussion thread

"[The] readers will not be privy to the massive undercurrents of dross that underpins WP. They require well written, well sourced, encyclopaedic material that can inform, enlighten and satisfy their interest."

—User:Leaky caldron to User:ThatPeskyCommoner

"We live a time when criticism, especially here on Wikipedia, is considered to be a personal attack, which is at the root of this nonsense. Yet without criticism we can't improve."

—The user formerly known as Malleus Fatuorum

"Montana, you know I respect you greatly--you write FAs that have fewer adjectives than that outburst."

—User:Drmies

"Every edit, especially bold ones, is disruptive. Disruptive just means changing the status quo and because Wikipedia is in a constant state of evolution, it is in a constant state of disruption ..."

—User: Liz

Before you post on my talk page (humor)

Come here and I'll point the spout at YOU!

Don't call names, you infectious rump-fed coxcomb!

You have been noticed using opprobrious epithets. It's payback time from the Shakespeare Insult Generator! To activate the Insultspout and receive fresh insults, click here. Note that all insults generated by the Spout are guaranteed literary and cultured, unlike the nasty things you said, you bootless fat-kidneyed scut.

Happy Montanabw's Day!

User:Montanabw has been identified as an Awesome Wikipedian, and therefore, I've officially declared today as Montanabw's day! For being such a beautiful person and great Wikipedian, enjoy being the Star of the day, dear Montanabw! Peace, Rlevse 01:39, 13 January 2010 (UTC) A record of your Day will always be kept here.

For a userbox you can add to your userbox page, see User:Rlevse/Today/Happy Me Day! and my own userpage for a sample of how to use it. — Rlevse • Talk • 01:39, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Awww, gee! That was really super nice! Thank you! Montanabw^(talk) 04:47, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

'tis the season

Louisa Venable Kyle wrote a children's book on The Witch of Pungo --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:50, 31 October 2013 (UTC)

Precious translates to the PumpkinSky Prize, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:03, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Beholder (horse)

The article Beholder (horse) you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:Beholder (horse) for things which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of SchroCat -- SchroCat (talk) 14:40, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

FAC of Schmerber v. California

Hi Montanabw, I hope all is well these days! I have nominated an article I wrote, Schmerber v. California, for FA status. I understand that you are an attorney and one of the top content creators at Wikipedia -- would you be willing to take a look at the nomination for Schmerber? Here is a link to the nomination. Thanks in advance for your help! Best, -- Notecardforfree (talk) 17:32, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

Reference errors on 6 October

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What's the english name of this stuff ?

Bridle, in french we call this a "licol ethologique"

Hello montana. I've a question for a categorization in WM Commons : what's the english name of this ? it's just under the category "bridle"; but it's not just a "bridle", I think ? Thank you ;) --Tsaag Valren (talk) 16:47, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

ADD : We call this a "licol américain", too. --Tsaag Valren (talk) 16:49, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

It's just a cheap rope Halter. It has a lead rope tied around it in the form of a mecate (rein), so someone is probably trying to use it like a hackamore, but it's not. Montanabw^(talk) 17:55, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

i.e. it's miscatagorized; it isn't a bridle at all. bridles have bits. Montanabw^(talk) 17:56, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Wow, juste a cheap rope halter ! Funny, because in France, this stuff was presented (2000's) as a new tool from the Americas, created by "western horsemanship" for horse welfare ! And a lot, a lot of... stupid people, imagine it's a good tool for "tether" (attacher ?) a horse, but it's juste very dangerous !

A last question : how did you call the difference between this rope halter with a lead rope and this one without ? We need a special category in commons for what we call a "licol éthologique", because there's an article about. Thanks again ! --Tsaag Valren (talk) 20:07, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

Oh! The irony! Nylon rope halters are a) cheap (at least, if not name-branded by some guru) and b) totally unbreakable so if a horse is tied with one (and an equally strong lead rope) then goes completely batshit, they can't escape -- may break their neck first... but at the time they were developed, mustangs were cheap too. It's a rather dark history, really. You may find this article interesting. Montanabw^(talk) 12:24, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

The first halter (on the palomino) is a pretty standard US model, the lead rope is attached to the halter without metal hardware, which makes it stronger and more unbreakable (as you know, the snap is always a weak point). The second is not an American design, it looks like it is made of jute and would break easily if it didn't rot first. (and looks very uncomfortable). Montanabw^(talk) 12:24, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Young Lusitano horse with an "american halter", in France.

I just don't get the fascination with rope halters; yeah, they enhance communication, because they cut into the horse's head!White Arabian mare (Neigh) 15:48, 9 October 2015 (UTC)WWhite Arabian mare

They. were. cheap. And the old cowboys could make new ones themselves when the old ones (old ones used normal rope). Montanabw^(talk) 15:51, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Okay ! So you don't have a special name for what we call an "american halter" (licol américain) in France ? Irony too ! (... must be like eat french fries not french at all ? :p) --Tsaag Valren (talk) 23:05, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

@Tsaag Valren: - Need photo of an "American" Halter... we call everything a "halter" - defined by the material it's made of - leather halter, nylon halter, rope halter... Montanabw^(talk) 23:15, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

I just uploaded it, with a young Lusitano stallion I longeing/longeed ? last month with this stuff very new for me :

 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tsaag Valren (talk • contribs) 23:27, 13 October 2015 (UTC) 

• Ick! Don't label that thing "American" - "Cowboy" maybe, but many cowboys don't use them either! Let me make one suggestion: Don't longe horses in these! My reasons: 1) Any halter with the longe line attached at the jaw provides no side leverage - if the horse turns his tail to you and bolts, you cannot turn their head around and they can just run off and rip the line out of your hands! (Trust me, I had the rope burn to prove that I learned that the hard way!) 2) Some horses find those big knots to be very irritating as the halter rubs loosely on their head and it makes them irritable and sometimes upset. 3) the halter isn't even designed (or maybe adjusted) properly - nothing under the throatlatch, it could easily slide off over the ears! 4) It is adjusted too loose; the noseband is on the cartilage of the nose and could cause damage if too much pressure was put on at the wrong angle. If one must longe a horse in one of these, it should be adjusted fairly snug so the throatlatch keeps it on, the noseband doesn't move around too much and so it doesn't fall off! Montanabw^(talk) 23:40, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

okay, I don't know this stuff at all, it's not a part of my habits. There's actually a "fashion" movement about working horses with this for more "natural horsemanship". But usually we longed with "caveçon".--Tsaag Valren (talk) 23:49, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

Yes, longeing caveson? In English, caveson or cavesson is a noseband in [{English riding]]. I agree the Longeing cavesson (or lungeing) is superior. Montanabw^(talk) 02:02, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

Re: ZooMontana

But doesn't the article say it's "in Billings, Montana." Tom Danson (talk) 15:43, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

Closest post office, out west, a lot of places in the country have a town address... doesn't mean inside city limits. Montanabw^(talk) 15:46, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

(TPS) Google Maps shows the zoo as being inside the city limits, as does this map. Maybe you can find an official source locally? -- Diannaa (talk) 15:23, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

If they've annexed it, I'm OK with the change back (used to not be, but the city is growing. Montanabw^(talk) 15:26, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

It kinda sticks out like a peninsula on the map; the surrounding land is not in the city limits. Perhaps it was annexed for tax reasons or for streamlining of utilities services. -- Diannaa (talk) 19:21, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

WikiConference USA 2015

Good question! All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 15:07, 10 October 2015 (UTC).

LOL!  ;-) Montanabw^(talk) 15:18, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

All the Pretty Horses ...

Just saw this on Twitter: [1]. -- Softlavender (talk) 09:19, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

The one whose markings spelled 'horse' was my favorite one! White Arabian mare (Neigh) 14:15, 11 October 2015 (UTC)White Arabian mare

And, sad to say, that one was photoshopped! (And the "silver buckskin" might have been too! - it looks like a gray to me!) I think the rest were legit. Montanabw^(talk) 14:48, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

Ugh, thought it looked photoshopped. I wonder if there are any that are really marked that way. White Arabian mare (Neigh) 19:34, 11 October 2015 (UTC)White Arabian mare

Wikipedia citation tool for Google Books

A must-have tool. --Rosiestep (talk) 12:10, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

Wikiconference DC

You actually here in DC right now? Surprised I've not run into you yet.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  20:05, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

Saw you on the other side of the room first day, I made a comment from the other side of the room second day... Montanabw^(talk) 00:23, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

I think I remember someone mentioning horses. >;-) I'm pretty jazzed about what can be done over the longer term with Wikidata for breed-related details. I wasn't "getting" WD until the sessions at this conf.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  14:11, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for helping with Black Allan

	Some cute Icelandic horses
	Thanks for fixing the pedigree template on Black Allan, I was afraid that if I removed the borders it wouldn't appear at all! And thanks for fixing the references as well. By the way, I created Morafic; you'll probably want to check it out. White Arabian mare (Neigh) 15:39, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

Nice to meet you

It was nice to meet you at wikiconference USA. If you want to move into the area of folk music, let me know. --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 05:25, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

@Guerillero: I'm always good for 3O, GA/FAC reviews and will frequently need a DYK qpq, so feel free to ping me if you need a hand. (FWIW, I have some music background, and have done a wee bit of editing on a few music articles). Montanabw^(talk) 20:04, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

Robert Cowell: notable trainer?

Hey, Montana. Can you take a look at this: Robert Cowell? Does this satisfy the specific notability guideline for horse people? Because it surely does not satisfy the general notability guidelines per WP:GNG based on the two linked references. Does the equine project normally accept links to sports stats sites as "significant" coverage? Anyway, my interest in this is limited, but it popped up on my radar when another editor doing page patrol asked me if I thought my article was notable, to which my reaction was "huh?" Until two days ago, the page was a redirect I created to a 1948 Olympic athlete better known as "Bob Cowell". I am curious to hear your opinion on point in light of the recent addition of a specific notability guideline for horses and horse people to WP:NSPORTS. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 02:01, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

I saw it, I suggest you cross-post at WikiProjct horse racing so that the UK/Ire folks can look and comment. The criterion is "multiple Grade 1 or Group 1 race wins," and they can probably assess that in an instant. The article definitely needs more content. I'll copy this over there. Montanabw^(talk) 14:14, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, MBW. I'm kind of curious to see where this goes. I'll watch the WikiProject Horse racing talk page to see what happens. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 14:18, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

RfA-related

Hiya. Your thoughts are welcome at WT:RFA#Two proposed RfCs on the viewdeleted userright. Hope you enjoyed the wikiconference, I enjoyed the video of the keynote. (P.S. This isn't canvassing, since you're one of the people in the target demographic ... you'll see what I mean.) - Dank (push to talk) 17:45, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

This definitely seems like canvassing to me, targetting only those who're likely to benefit from your proposal. Eric Corbett 18:51, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

Heh, I'm clearly in the demographic. I would benefit from the proposal... but, technically, so might a lot of other people. Montanabw^(talk) 20:05, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

... None of whom have been canvassed. Eric Corbett 21:06, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

I get what you're saying, Eric, but it would simply be wrong to propose 5 people as potential subjects in an experiment and not tell them about it. I worded this as neutrally as I could, and people at WT:RFA have been informed, so if they want to discount what these people say for any reason, they can. - Dank (push to talk) 21:26, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

• • • Not my circus. I do favor unbundling userrights and page mover in particular. I could use it in my regular editing. Like today.  :-P Montanabw^(talk) 21:09, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

White line disease

We seem to have no article for white line disease--when I searched I got hoof wall separation disease and a bunch of other unrelated articles. Do we need one? If so, I'll create and write it (I googled and found several reliable sources; it seemed to be covered pretty broadly). I'm interested in it because my horse had it last year. White Arabian mare (Neigh) 21:04, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

Check out Equine lameness and horse hoof to see if it's mentioned there and if there is enough info to do a spinoff. I favor it if we don't have something, somewhere. But triple-quadruple-check that we don't have something... white line disease should pop up in a WP search, I agree. Montanabw^(talk) 21:11, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

I searched for it multiple times, along with "seedy toe", the slangy term for it. I'll try to get some references and do it tomorrow. I know I got a lot of high-quality hits when I searched for it on Google (The Horse and Equus articles, plus others that are also reliable). ADD: No mention of it at equine lameness. When mine had it he wasn't even lame...? White Arabian mare (Neigh) 21:51, 14 October 2015 (UTC)White Arabian mare

Disambiguation link notification for October 15

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United States Pony Clubs

You say that organizations cannot have pages. We are fine with this. Please remove the United States Pony Club page. It is inaccurate and against our copyright. We only attempted to update outdated information. We have no "COI" in this matter. We are a non-profit organization. We seek no monetary gain from posting the correct information about our organization, only that the correct information is posted on sites such as this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by USPC2015 (talk • contribs) 18:41, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

@Montanabw: This user had erased the entire USPC page, so I reverted their edit and put it back up. White Arabian mare (Neigh) 19:41, 15 October 2015 (UTC)White Arabian mare

Black Allan picture

Here's the URL for the picture of Black Allan: [2]. White Arabian mare (Neigh) 14:06, 16 October 2015 (UTC)

AAQHC

Hi, Montana! Thanks for tweaking the categories on the AAQHC. I'm actually at the Congress now, and hope to capture some pictures for the article but I won't be able to upload anything until I get back to Texas in 10 days. Anyway, there's a lot more that can be added so your collaboration is most welcome. Atsme^📞📧 01:51, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Hi Atsme! Glad we can have a happy collaboration and ping me when you get photos up! Montanabw^(talk) 01:58, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Tennessee Walking Horse National Celebration

Just thought I'd let you know that I went ahead and created the Tennessee Walking Horse National Celebration article. I know I'm going to have to keep a close eye because it'll probably be a vandalism target, but I thought I might as well do it because somebody else would if I didn't. Anyway, I put a whole section about the controversies stuff. Thought you might wanta check it out.. White Arabian mare (Neigh) 18:45, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

ADD: sorry if that seemed POV. It just seems screwy that the HSUS always releases a new Walking Horse abuse video perfectly in time to coincide with the beginning of the Celebration. 😝 I've watched both the attack and defense videos on YouTube too. I think the best way was how they showed Midnight Sun. White Arabian mare (Neigh) 20:22, 17 October 2015 (UTC)White Arabian mare

No worries, I have handled far more controversial articles (see, e.g. Charreada, for example; I've also had several circuses with the various rodeo articles). It's a question of tone. The reality is that when you have the New York Times covering the problem, the 2006 debacle and people like Jackie McConnell out there, that does a lot of damage to the reputation of the breed. (nightline, this, etc...). My thinking is that it's best to "teach the controversy" and present the viewpoints of each side fairly. I think that readers are intelligent people and if we do a really good job with NPOV, they are able to draw conclusions. (Wull disclosure: I was on the team that got Horse Protection Act of 1970 to FA Montanabw^(talk) 02:46, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

It's not the factual opposition and the actual stuff that goes on that I dislike; it's the people who've never seen a TWH in their lives and yet are all over the horse forums posting stuff they made up! I always remember a question on a forum where somebody asked what the big lick pads were made of. Somebody else answered and said they were made of rubber filled with sand and lead shavings, and weighed 15 pounds each. I've picked them up and I know that's not true! I just wish these people could see both sides of it, but people are always blind to what goes on in their own little world and quick to start attacking others. It's why most of the people posting "big lick torture" on Walking Horse videos are Quarter Horse people, and most of the people posting "four-beat lope! Dead tail!" on QH videos are TWH people.😣 White Arabian mare (Neigh) 16:17, 18 October 2015 (UTC)White Arabian mare

I see three issues: 1) The genuine problems, which, like most human problems, the people closest to the situation won't police themselves because it impacts their livelihood (or they fear it will), 2) the ignorant, like the people who you describe on the forums, and then 3) the willfully dishonest or malicious who promote a mob hystria - like the PETA video about horse racing they put out about a year and a half-ago; they used an image of a horse being tubed - which we know to be a standard veterinary procedure - and used it as a lead image to make a case for abuse; they also mixed recordings that didn't match the images to imply a person was saying bad stuff about an injured animal and such. Montanabw^(talk) 21:47, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

I remember seeing a video put up by a PETA member that was titled "Shocking!!!! Horse Abuse!!!" and consisted of reining horses spinning, a trainer hobble breaking a young horse, and a dressage horse cantering. I laughed through the whole thing. That was their idea of abuse. White Arabian mare (Neigh) 23:49, 18 October 2015 (UTC)White Arabian mare

Not that there isn't abuse in those fields. I've watched reining horses being trained; some folks are not kind in obtaining the precision required. The practice of rollkur was banned by national law in Switzerland. I've dealt with horses with injected tails. The problem is that PETA doesn't help the underlying causes they claim to support because at root I hold the view that they have a different agenda altogether; ever notice how they flock to high-interest areas more than high-abuse areas? Montanabw^(talk) 00:43, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

I've noticed, and seen abuse in most horse sports I've seen. PETA's just a lot of nuts in my opinion. They claim to help animals and yet they want all pit bulls dead because one bit Ingrid Newkirk; they pass out propaganda in the form of "Your Mommy Kills Animals!" comic books to children in elementary school, and call fish "sea kittens". I'm surprised people can even take them seriously. White Arabian mare (Neigh) 01:30, 19 October 2015 (UTC)White Arabian mare

Well, I'll refrain from going further down the not-NPOV here in case I have to deal further with those sorts of issues in the future, but I guess my own view is probably middle-of-the-road; I usually recognize abuse - but also dishonesty - vis-a-vis animal issues when I see it - and I'll call it as I see it... ;-) Montanabw^(talk) 02:06, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

Hey stalkers

Requested move at Talk:Calf_(disambiguation)#Requested_move_18_October_2015. Montanabw^(talk) 23:09, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

Note to myself - stop stalking Montanabw's talk page! What the hell is going on over there! I have never seen such short fuses over a page move, and that last deletion of the Talk Page edits was unbelievable - I sent the editor a warning to his talk page. Please feel free to contact me over similar disputes in the future.DrChrissy ^(talk) 14:02, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

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Canadian federal election

Will you be following the returns tonight? Freddiem (talk) 23:48, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

USPC (yeah, again)

There's yet another new user editing the United States Pony Clubs page, and that's all their contrib history shows. They had put the lead-in to the rest of the article under a heading titled 'summary' so I reverted it. I think they did something else too, but it was minor and I didn't revert it. I sent them a talk page message explaining why we don't use double headers since the article title IS the header for the lead-in, and suggesting they look at other articles for examples or join WPEQ. I just thought I'd let you know... White Arabian mare (Neigh) 01:07, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

Help improving content about museums in New Mexico

Hi Brenda, New Mexico museums need help in improving or adding their content. I see that there's a list Museums in New Mexico, which is a helpful start, and also a wiki Museum Project that offers guidelines for good article content, which is also helpful, and we have an opportunity in November, at our New Mexico Association of Museums meeting in Carlsbad, to get museums on board with this. I can create a worksheet/template based on the Museum Project guidelines, that will help museums get someone to write their article, but issues will arise with formatting and making info boxes and collections galleries, etc. In my ideal world there would be someone out there who could come to the conference and work with interested museums to help them get their acts together. Also, in my ideal world there would be someone interested in being a Wikipedian-in-Residence who could help us plow through that list of Museums in New Mexico, or one or more volunteers who would help us working remotely. Please let me know your thoughts. Thank you. Mimi.roberts (talk) 15:25, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

I'll email you. But also check out WP:GLAM/Montana History. Montanabw^(talk) 04:24, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

"Domestic horse -> Horse" edit

Hi. That was an interesting last edit of yours on the Horse page. A quick check of other livestock shows the same situation at Sheep at least. Am I correct in thinking that the title in the taxbox should match as close as possible the title of the article?DrChrissy ^(talk) 13:27, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

There was a gigantic "drahmah" a few years back when someone wanted to name all the livestock articles "domestic foo" of various sorts. I think this was a remnant holdover. I'd maybe post at talk for changing any of the other articles, just in case it still matters to someone. I was bold on horse because I was on the team that brought it to GA. Montanabw^(talk) 01:36, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

Montana PBS links

Hello Montanabw, thanks for helping out with checking those links for usability. I noticed that the one for Anaconda Copper Mine (Montana) still shows a 404 error. Unfortunately I wasn't able to find an active replacement and the info page for this particular video is very short. Anyway, just a fyi - maybe you have a better idea where to look for an active link. GermanJoe (talk) 03:58, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

A cup of tea for you!

With this ever dramatic world and winter coming, here's a cup of tea to alleviate your day (ease that tension)! This e-tea's remains have been e-composted SwisterTwister talk 05:53, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

• Thank you! I presume this is Tea. Earl Grey. Hot. Much appreciated.

Longevity-related AfD's and GNG guidelines

Hi Montanabw, thankyou for your recent contributions at some longevity-related AfD's.

I am in agreement that instead of nominating countless supercentenarian articles for deletion, a more general discussion needs to take place about what standards need to be met for a subject to "qualify for notability". For example, should people in the following categories be considered notable: World's oldest people/women/men titleholders, oldest ever person from country X, Top 100 oldest ever people/woman/men ever, etc.

The main concern I have right now is that a WP:BATTLEGROUND appears to have developed around longevity-related articles. I think some users are trying to counteract the addition of WP:OR and WP:TRIVIA to some articles by other users, but have almost ended up pushing too far, and seem to have a bias against them. Unfortunately, in several past AfD's, RfC's, and other discussions, these editors always contribute and this may, at times, lead to a false representation of the true consensus of the wider community, which I feel has damaged Wikipedia's articles on the subject of longevity.

Therefore, I'd like it if more editors can get involved in this project. May I ask how we can go about having a discussion about supercentenarian notability and WP:GNG? Thanks -- Ollie231213 (talk) 00:18, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

Perhaps specific guidelines could be developed at Wikipedia:Notability_(people); similarly to those of NACTOR, NPOLITICIAN, etc. The centenarian articles probably should mostly be listified, I wish that the AfD crowd would just merge stuff rather than have AfD drahmahz. Oh, wait, that would mean they'd have to create content, which is more work. Whoops. Montanabw^(talk) 17:06, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

Take Charge Brandi

Thanks for doing the wrap-up on her racing career. Given her pedigree and performance I suspect that we have not heard the last of her. Expect to see a Brandi's Kitten or a Tap It Brandi in a couple of years time. Tigerboy1966  10:11, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

I agree, sounds like we know which farms she should visit! Montanabw^(talk) 21:09, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

A Present

File:, Massimo Stanzione - Judith with the Head of Holofernes ( c. 1630–35)

Thank you...

I want to thank you for restoring many of the Montana-related links that had been reverted. I was very discouraged to see so many hours of my work simply disappear. You make a positive difference here and I'm grateful!Guanaco55 (talk) 15:40, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. The problem was that several went to 404 pages; some links expire. Always best to try and find permanent links when you can! Montanabw^(talk) 17:11, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Pedigree

I just created Merry Go Boy. I have a question about the pedigrees, though--on one like his where some horses are unknown, is it better to leave the formatting tags (mffm) or put a question mark where the name would go to show that the ancestor is unknown? White Arabian mare (Neigh) 15:51, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

I would say "unknown". I'll pop by. Montanabw^(talk) 17:06, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. 😊 I may end up writing one about Albert Dement; he keeps popping up and he was apparently the Hank Weiscamp of Walkers. Google turns up several good refs, books and stuff. White Arabian mare (Neigh) 18:27, 27 October 2015 (UTC)White Arabian mare

• Just keep finding good source material, also continue to let me know if you need any help. You are really doing a lot of terrific work here and so far you have yet to make the same mistake twice! (LOL!) -- Seriously, I made as many or more errors when I was new to wiki and still am capable of massive screwups (Like the one yesterday where I rollbacked your edit and then had to rollback my mistake...)! Keep up your good work! Montanabw^(talk) 18:37, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

I hope I am doing lots of good; maybe I am, because I just got given my first barnstar about an hour ago! 🎆 I am doing lots better with the pedigrees now (first time I screwed it up so bad that I had to blank the whole thing and start over) but I have the hang of them now. Is it OK to say "saddle seat" in discipline on the Walking Horse pages (noticed you changed one of them to show horse)? I don't know if that's really considered to be saddle seat by the USEF or whoever, but it looks like it. Anyway it's not a big deal. White Arabian mare (Neigh) 21:16, 27 October 2015 (UTC)White Arabian mare

It's confusing... "Saddle seat" is not terminology used to describe pleasure or park classes, only equitation (I've seen "saddle type" and "hunter type" though, but only at open shows. Regional uses include saying "English" when saddle seat is meant, and "Hunter" for hunt seat...); Unless you have something real specific, like "Plantation-style" or "Five-gaited" or something, it's better to use the general discipline, and "show horse" is probably best. Montanabw^(talk) 22:10, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

It's calling to you...

Rainbow butterfly unicorn kittens. Really. It is. Ealdgyth - Talk 01:29, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

PPPPBBBTTTTTT!  :-P Montanabw^(talk) 02:10, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Chilukki Stakes

It is not just this article, but I am using it as an example. The formatting is off. External links is in small type and the section header is far off to the right. Some articles have the same problem with references sections. How do we fix these?...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 12:45, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

I did a fix, @WilliamJE: I don't know what all the problems are, but changing the formatting in the previous section that had columns seemed to fix part of the problems. Ping me as to others in the same situation or maybe put the whole list at WP:Horse Racing and also ping RexxS who is a formatting genius. Montanabw^(talk) 16:17, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

The problem is that when you try to make 3 columns by floating 3 divs at 33% width each, there's a tiny column of 1% left over. The <br> that was trying to clear those floats is unfortunately an inline element so doesn't work in this case. If a <div>...</div> with style="clear:all;" is used instead, it normally behaves as you would expect because div is a block element.

Anyway, MontanaBW, your fix works well with most modern browsers and doesn't cause much problem for mobile browsers. It's also flexible if the number of items in the list changes, so I'd recommend it to anyone who has been having problems with multiple column lists. Cheers --RexxS (talk) 18:13, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

You've probably already seen this, but...

Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Optional RfA candidate poll

White Arabian mare (Neigh) 16:08, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Amusing. If I posted there it would be really interesting. I think I'll pass... for now. But thanks for the ping! Montanabw^(talk) 16:19, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Want to get really amused? Put my name up and see the negative numbers I'll get....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 19:38, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

We could do it like a Presidential campaign and run as a ticket... LOL! Montanabw^(talk) 21:50, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Hilarious! I so bookmarked that page Vesuvius Dogg (talk) 21:57, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Because obviously it is such a perfect system to determine such things. Montanabw^(talk) 22:02, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Yep, perfect. People's opinions are always the perfect predictor of what really happens when it gets down to the actual voting. White Arabian mare (Neigh) 00:39, 30 October 2015 (UTC)White Arabian mare

Assist?

I am OK with your bold move, but would you care to assist with the links redirected from the old title? (The others are probably not worth the trouble) [3]? Montanabw^(talk) 22:04, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

Please excuse my delayed reply. I needed a break and have been away from WP for a few days. I'm happy to help update redirects. The Transhumanist 09:09, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

 Done   I've replaced the following links:

• North American Thoroughbred horse racing terminology
• North American horse racing terminology

If you would like further assistance, please let me know. The Transhumanist 10:36, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

Nyquist

I created a stub for Nyquist (horse) and plan to expand it after I'm done watching TV (there's another horse I'm watching). Am happy to do the pedigree section. Will you have a look? Vesuvius Dogg (talk) 21:01, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

I tried to add an infobox but had to remove it...😝 I screwed it up someway. White Arabian mare (Neigh) 22:51, 31 October 2015 (UTC)White Arabian mare

I'll trot oevr as soon as the dust clears on Pharoah's update. Montanabw^(talk) 22:58, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

I was going to do that too and somebody beat me! I loved watching him win today though, he is the best horse in my lifetime so far. I was born too late for Secretariat. 😉 White Arabian mare (Neigh) 00:17, 1 November 2015 (UTC)White Arabian mare

• We also need an article for Stephanie's Kitten, she's had a long career, capped by the win today in the Filly & Mare Turf. (Some info at Kenneth and Sarah Ramsey) Montanabw^(talk) 00:27, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Trick or trout

I've reverted it back in: sorry! --Rubbish computer (Trick: or treat?) 23:17, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

Halloween cheer!

Happy Halloween!

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Congratulations on 5,000,000 articles

for all your contributions, thank you.

Smallbones_(smalltalk) 13:29, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

		The Minor Barnstar
		Although you did not make the top 16 of Round 1, you did participate and you still deserve a barnstar. Thank you so much for being a part of the 2nd Annual GA Cup and we hope to see you next year! MrWooHoo (talk) 23:29, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

YouTube external links?

Is it OK on the Walking Horse articles to provide an external link to a YouTube video of the horse (Midnight Sun and Strolling Jim specifically, there's actual footage of them on YouTube and may be some of Merry Go Boy too---not sure)? Without getting slammed for "spamming"? I mean, create an external links section, and put the link to the specific video there. White Arabian mare (Neigh) 23:59, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

• Generally, yes, see, e.g. the EL section of California Chrome. Montanabw^(talk) 00:03, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, will probably do so tomorrow. The videos are blurry, but then again I'm sort of surprised they even bothered to take them back then. I think there may be one for Wing Commander too. White Arabian mare (Neigh) 01:00, 3 November 2015 (UTC)White Arabian mare

Ping

[4] Join in if you want. Regardless, I thought you should know it's happening. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 14:33, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for the ping, Anthonyhcole. I appreciate the invitation, and appreciate knowing I am a topic of discussion, but for now, I think I shall simply continue to lurk there. ;-) I am pleased to see, though, that the individual in question has openly confessed that deliberate use of WP:OR and WP:SYNTH is her m.o. I shall bookmark that link and keep it for future reference. I do hope that those encouraging her to self-publish elsewhere are successful in their mentorship and advocacy, as clearly, a person should follow their heart. Montanabw^(talk) 17:11, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

What's going on there? I'm lazy. Give me the executive summary. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 18:11, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

Essentially, there are extremely long and convoluted threads at Talk:Mustang (and a subpage, plus the archives), Talk:Free-roaming horse management in North America, Talk:Rocky Mountain Fur Company and Talk:Fur trade in Montana (current spat) and the user's talk page. All start with this user's penchant for OR and SYNTH and continue to devolve into personal attacks and other unpleasantness. It is very difficult to follow the threads because this user makes dozens of small edits where most editors would make only one or two, and this clouds the edit history considerably. If the user at the link you posted is the same user as the one with the same name on wikipedia, and I believe it is, the posts at the bottom of page one of the link you provided basically confirms what this user has said elsewhere, which is that she is using WP as a place to post her own research. Of course she is angry that I am willing to call her out on this. Montanabw^(talk) 18:38, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

Her behaviour now seems quite different from RO's, on my superficial grasp of both. For a while you (and I) were wondering if they were the same person. Where do you stand on that, now? --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 18:54, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

I now am pretty sure she and RO are totally different people, but they both share a dislike of me and in both cases, their wrath erupted when I called them out on sloppy editing; and their reactions to me is what led me to suspect socking. I still think Wysong is a returned user, but I shall assume she intended a WP:CLEANSTART and drop that particular stick. I also initially thought she resembled ItsLassieTime (and we did catch one ILT sock in that "duck box" period, User:SeeSpot Run), but ILT's MO was copypasting stuff directly from a source, whereas SLW's MO is OR and SYNTH, so I don't think she's ILT, either. But there are three banned socks who have good reason to hate my guts, so I remain alert. Montanabw^(talk) 19:07, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

I suppose you've considered a mutual interaction/comment ban - between you and RO, I mean. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 06:16, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

It has been proposed, but I don't think it will solve anything, iBans seldom do; they merely prolong the inevitable. Though I have been making a point of avoiding RO, we edit in areas where there will be occasional overlap (American West, music) so all an iBan would do is create a game of "gotcha" which would create ANI drama and be nothing but a waste of everyone's time. I've edited something like 11,000 unique pages in nearly 80,000 edits, so the probability that RO could inadvertently hit a page I've edited is also pretty high. It is his/ her behavior that can be examined on a case by case basis, and I would suggest that his/her decision to create an off-wiki attack thread on a message board needs to be factored in. Montanabw^(talk) 17:53, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

RO is also capable of tag-teaming. I tend to consider both elements as classic examples of the "nice" behavior which is often tolerated (if not encouraged) here. Intothatdarkness 18:02, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

Thanks

Hello Montanabw, Viriditas has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Go on, smile! Cheers, and happy editing!
Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Cabal of the outcasts

The user box of that content was deleted, as it was created by an outcast. Please make your own using the {{User QAIbox}}. Do you remember image and wording of the former? I remember that it was green, said something like "counts themselves among the cabal of the outcasts", and showed a stone mason casting. I miss it. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:28, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

New article

Even if it's outside your wheelhouse, I could use a pair of copyediting eyes on Louise de Broglie, Countess d'Haussonville, newly created by me on Englsh Wikipedia. (There's a French Wikipédia version, which provided some inspiration and a couple factoids, although I mostly re-sourced this to English language RS while expanding and rewriting it.) I can't figure out how to do the fr:Wikipedia linky thing, which I used to be able to do. Could you have a whack at it? Hoping to bring this to DYK. The sitter is fascinating and her portrait ridiculously famous. Thanks if you can help Vesuvius Dogg (talk) 02:56, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

Took a whack at it, feel free to revert anything you don't like, it's all just my opinion. Montanabw^(talk) 05:24, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

Animal treatment in rodeo

Do you care if I put an AfD on this article? The topic is already covered in rodeo, it's a POV PETA propaganda piece, and it was written by a sock. I've thought of trying to edit it but don't know where to start. It's a piece of crap. I normally don't like deleting articles but... White Arabian mare (Neigh) 17:58, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

While I agree with your reasoning; I'm concerned about drama... sometimes it's useful to give people their own little drama corner so they stay away from the main articles. Your call, but if drama erupts, stay cool... Montanabw^(talk) 19:57, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

I may post at the Teahouse or somewhere to get more opinions, thanks. White Arabian mare (Neigh) 20:31, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

Looks like the consensus is keep. I removed the stuff that used Peta as a source (they're not exactly reliable) and am planning to do more tomorrow. May be a decent article of it can be balanced out. White Arabian mare (Neigh) 02:15, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

Go ahead and take a look at the sources used in rodeo, bronc riding, bull riding, etc. I've vetted those sections (heck I wrote or rewrote much of them) and to the extent the questionable sources are there, it's for explaining all sides per WP:NPOV. The biggest challenge I think I've had was at Charreada, where I REALLY had to put my personal opinions aside... but got there. Good luck. Montanabw^(talk) 02:37, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

Equine podiatry

There appears to be somebody using the equine podiatry article to self-promote now. Al 21 of their edits (since they joined a year ago) are to it last night. I undid a little of what they had done, and sent them a message about self-promoting requesting that they use the talk page to propose changes. Gag. White Arabian mare (Neigh) 15:36, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

Nothing new there, that article has always been a problem that way. Refer to WP:COI and if they give you trouble, there's a COI noticeboard, I think. Don't hassle them solo, best to have backup. Montanabw^(talk) 01:43, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

Ok, thanks. By the way, I wrote something about Caspian horses on your horse breeds snark page a while back: I'm thinking of creating something like myself! White Arabian mare (Neigh) 02:19, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

You're invited! Women in Red World Virtual Edit-a-thon on Women in Science

You are invited! Join us remotely! World Virtual Edit-a-thon on Women in Science

Dates: 8 to 29 November 2015 Location: Worldwide/virtual/online event Host/Facilitator: Women in Red (WiR) in collaboration with Women scientists: Did you know that only 15% of the biographies on Wikipedia are about women? WiR focuses on "content gender gap". If you'd like to help contribute articles on women and women's works, we warmly welcome you! Sponsor: New York Academy of Sciences Event details: This is a virtual edit-a-thon hosted by WiR in parallel with a "physical" event during the afternoon of Sunday, November 22 in New York City. It will allow all those keen to improve Wikipedia's coverage of women in science to participate. As the virtual edit-a-thon stretches over three weeks, new participants will be able to draw on the assistance of more experienced editors while creating, translating or improving articles on women who are (or have been) prominent in the field. All levels of Wikipedia editing experience are welcome. RSVP and learn more: →here← --Rosiestep (talk) 02:49, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

WikiCup 2015: The results

WikiCup 2015 is now in the books! Congrats to our finalists and winners, and to everyone who took part in this year's competition.

This year's results were an exact replica of last year's competition. For the second year in a row, the 2015 WikiCup champion is Godot13 (submissions) (FP bonus points). All of his points were earned for an impressive 253 featured pictures and their associated bonus points (5060 and 1695, respectively). His entries constituted scans of currency from all over the world and scans of medallions awarded to participants of the U.S. Space program. Cwmhiraeth (submissions) came in second place; she earned by far the most bonus points (4082), for 4 featured articles, 15 good articles, and 147 DYKs, mostly about in her field of expertise, natural science. Cas Liber (submissions), a finalist every year since 2010, came in third, with 2379 points.

Our newcomer award, presented to the best-performing new competitor in the WikiCup, goes to Rationalobserver (submissions). Everyone should be very proud of the work they accomplished. We will announce our other award winners soon.

A full list of our award winners are:

• Godot13 (submissions) (FP bonus points) wins the prize for first place and the FP prize for 330 featured pictures in the final round.
• Cwmhiraeth (submissions) wins the prize for second place and the DYK prize for 160 did you knows in the final round (310 in all rounds).
• Cas Liber (submissions) wins the prize for third place and the FA prize for 26 featured articles in all rounds.
• West Virginian (submissions) wins the prize for fourth place
• Calvin999 (submissions) wins a final 8 prize.
• Rationalobserver (submissions) wins a final 8 prize.
• Harrias (submissions) wins a final 8 prize and the FL prize for 11 featured lists.
• Rodw (submissions) wins the most prizes: a final 8 prize, the GA prize for 41 good articles, and the topic prize for a 13-article good topic and an 8-article featured topic, both in round 3.
• ThaddeusB (submissions) wins the news prize for the most news articles in round 3.

We warmly invite all of you to sign up for next year's competition. Discussions and polls concerning potential rules changes are also open, and all are welcome to participate. The WikiCup judges will be back in touch over the coming months, and we hope to see you all in the 2016 competition. Until then, it only remains to once again congratulate our worthy winners, and thank all participants for their involvement! If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from Wikipedia:WikiCup/Newsletter/Send.

Figureskatingfan (talk · contribs · logs), Miyagawa (talk · contribs · logs) and Sturmvogel 66 (talk · contribs · logs) 18:39, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

New article!

I just created this so feel free to look it over. It's a stub right now, but I hope to add sections and more stuff later. Also you may get a laugh out of this. I'm going out riding in a couple of minutes, but I'll be back on later. 🐴 White Arabian mare (Neigh) 21:35, 10 November 2015 (UTC)