User talk:Jytdog

Revisiting an independent "multisystem proteinopathy" page

Our discussion regarding restoring an independent "multisystem proteinopathy" page seems to have fallen through the cracks again. It's now been languishing since April. If you don't have time to get back to this, can you please point me to someone else who can help? Thanks. 192.55.208.10 (talk) 17:37, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

This issue needs attention. Can you please help or direct me to someone who can? Posted on the IBM talk page as well.192.55.208.10 (talk) 17:41, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

User: Lester-bangbangs

Hi Jytdog. Would you mind taking a look at the contributions of Lester-bangbangs. The account is fairly new (May 2018) and all of the edits appear to be connected to Joyful Noise Recordings or its artist. It could just be a fan, but it also seems like WP:APPARENTCOI and possibly some undisclosed WP:PAID. -- Marchjuly (talk) 05:32, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

ANI notice

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Figureofnine (talk • contribs) 13:35, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

Possibly time sensitive

Hello, Jytdog. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

--S Philbrick(Talk) 18:47, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

Hm. Thanks, I replied. Jytdog (talk) 19:08, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

Edit war warning

Your recent editing history at Zolpidem shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See BRD for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.Declanscottp (talk) Declanscottp (talk) 00:08, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

zolpidem article NPOV

Jytdog, please do not repeatedly revert well sourced information from the Zolpidem article. I have a large number of specific comments to you on them, you have either not addressed them, or given very short and vague responses to them. Declanscottp (talk) 00:10, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

User:Declanscottp; the purpose of the notices, is to give you notice. I gave you the edit war notice and the NPOV notice, so I am obviously aware of the policies. What you just did with the two edits above is a newbie mistake, and a petty one at that, treating the notice like some "badge of shame", which it is not. Please continue talking at the talk page. Please read and follow NPOV. Thanks Jytdog (talk) 00:13, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

Jytdog, I am not a "newbie," I did not make a mistake, and I am just as "obviously aware" of NPOV as you are. Rather than your constant no-explanation reversions, please address my comments on the zolpidem talk page. Declanscottp (talk) 00:17, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

You don't know how to indent your posts, and you did a newbie thing, by giving me notices of which I am aware. You are driving directly over a cliff, toward a topic ban. Jytdog (talk) 00:27, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

Speedy deletion contested: Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine

Hello Jytdog. I am just letting you know that I contested the speedy deletion of Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: Notable topic, not really promotional. Thank you. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 04:30, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

You didn't contest it, you removed the tag. That's about it for me with regard to you. Jytdog (talk) 04:32, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

FYI, Jytdog: I've blocked the Cleveland Clinic IP 139.137.128.61 for a month for persistent addition of spam and promotion for "globally renowned" doctors etc connected with the Cleveland Clinic. (Not just at this article either, e.g. [1].) Bishonen | talk 06:58, 21 August 2018 (UTC).

Please immediately refrain from intentionally hiding counter-arguments for your deletion request. If you do not refrain, I will seek dispute resolution measures with admins. Wikiuser5991 (talk) 21:00, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

Do whatever you like; there are no arguments that are valid within Wikipedia in the hatted section to keep or to delete the page; there is just a lot of distraction by the now-indeffed editor, you, and me.

If you seek "admin attention" to this matter, your own behavior will be examined as well. See WP:BOOMERANG. Jytdog (talk) 21:05, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

August 2018

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Please stop your disruptive editing.

• If you are engaged in an article content dispute with another editor, discuss the matter with the editor at their talk page, or the article's talk page, and seek consensus with them. Alternatively you can read Wikipedia's dispute resolution page, and ask for independent help at one of the relevant notice boards.
• If you are engaged in any other form of dispute that is not covered on the dispute resolution page, seek assistance at Wikipedia's Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents.

If you continue to disrupt Wikipedia, as you did at European Graduate School, you may be blocked from editing. Please do add material to this article without consensus, or edit war. Per WP:ONUS, it is clear from the talk page that there is no consensus for material you are adding to the article. Bjerrebæk (talk) 19:12, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

Nope. Discuss your removal at the talk page. Thanks. Jytdog (talk) 19:13, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

It was discussed several days ago. You are the one who needs to discuss you edit warring to insert biased materal not supported by policy or consensus. --Bjerrebæk (talk) 19:29, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

Please be careful about what you say to people. Some remarks can easily be misinterpreted, or viewed as harassment. Wikipedia is a supportive environment, where contributors should feel comfortable and safe while editing. Your abuse of COI templates on my talk page is unacceptable and has landed you in trouble before. I hereby caution you against repeating such behaviour. I have made thousands of edits over a decade related to higher education, and my edits to the article on the European Graduate School were explained on the talk page and supported by policy and consensus. You are not entitled to abuse COI templates whenever someone make an edit you disagree with. Please discuss your edits on the talk page instead, and refrain from personal attacks. Bjerrebæk (talk) 19:26, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

No, use of COI templates has not landed me in trouble before.

I am not harassing you.

Your post is sloppy bullshit. I do not tolerate sloppy bullshit on my talk page. You are unwelcome to post here again. Jytdog (talk) 19:29, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Ah back to school season

Lovely time of year. Jytdog (talk) 19:30, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

ANI

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikiuser5991 (talk • contribs) 21:26, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

I think your talk page is setting some kind of record for the greatest number of utterly BS warnings and templates in just a few days. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:42, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

I don't want to win that prize. I've been watching old South Park episodes and having inappropriate discussions with strangers to wash it out of me. Jytdog (talk) 22:49, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

Just tell them to respect your authoritah. --Tryptofish (talk) 22:51, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

exactly! Jytdog (talk) 23:05, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

I hadn't seen that! See, I'm clairvoyant! --Tryptofish (talk) 23:08, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

That is one of my favorite words. So pretty. Am so glad it is not a pornstar name or something. But there is Claire Voyant. And yes you are! Jytdog (talk) 23:13, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) If "Claire Voyant" isn't taken then I've found my drag name. › Mortee _talk 20:57, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

I think I went to high school with her. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:01, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

Well she'll have to change her bloody name. It's mine now. › Mortee _talk 21:02, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

Too late: [2]. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:06, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

Sigh. All the good names are taken! › Mortee _talk 21:07, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

Ugh, it gets worse: [3]. This is what I get for Googling Claire Voyant, which, come to think of it, sounds like a double entendre. --Tryptofish (talk) 21:10, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

If that's what I'd be associated with then I'm going with Emma Mann, which is frankly genius anyway. › Mortee _talk 21:40, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

Choosing Wisely

I cannot understand why you have undone the edit on the choosing wisely campaign. I am totally independent from the campaign in the US and just providing information about how choosing wisely has blossomed around the world to promote doing no harm to patients.

I am totally independent and the sources I have referenced are independent references and other campaigns. It seems inappropriate to delet--TransfusionDoctor (talk) 14:58, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

this is chock full of spam. Nonprofit spam is just as much as much spam as for-profit. Please build content from independent sources. Also please keep in mind that per WP:LEAD, the part of the article above the table of content just summarizes the body of the article. Please don't add new content only to the lead. Thanks. Jytdog (talk) 15:08, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

I am not trying to be in an edit war. I removed all the external links from the main text, used references from review articles form 3 different medical journals (secondary citations) and placed some external links in the external links section. I was confused therefore why after taking your advice these changes were removed--TransfusionDoctor (talk) 16:06, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

Please discuss the content at the talk page. Thanks. Jytdog (talk) 16:07, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

Rampant boosterism/promotion on MCSOM Page

Hello Jytdog. It seems you are quite active in monitoring and responding to pages with promotional material and conflict of interest. I'd like to alert you to the following page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayo_Clinic_School_of_Medicine) with rampant boosterism. The page was flagged recently, but a user who has been making many revisions to this page removed the flag despite not addressing any of the issues. I restored it, but suspect it will be removed again. The article is not neutral at all and might have a conflicted editor running the show. Your response would be appreciated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.58.83.91 (talk) 18:56, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

172.58.83.91, I removed the flag since no issues were mentioned in the edit summary or on the talk page. I should emphasize that I have no conflicts as an editor on the MCSOM page. Please join the discussion at Talk:Mayo_Clinic_School_of_Medicine#Academic_boosterism so we understand the specifics. Trantorian (talk) 03:28, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

Offtopic?

That was a tad aggressive. I left the comment in that sub-section since I thought the update would be useful for participants in the indef-discussion. But if you/anyone else thinks this arrangement works better, that is fine with me too (as you surely appreciate, too easy on wikipedia to get lost in the meta-debates that are not worth much). Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 23:40, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

I just wanted people to be able to focus on we can do, which is look at the contribs we can see. So easy for people to get distracted. Sorry if that felt stompy. If you want to move it, that is fine y me, i will then remove my comment... Jytdog (talk) 00:35, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Just came back online and am hesitant to move it now since it would involve fiddling with more editors' comments. Lets just let the discussion proceed. Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 16:23, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

we can just let it be. sorry for the hassle. Jytdog (talk) 16:29, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Editing war

Hy Jytdog

Hi Jytdog

The Wikimedia page for Brian Morris in Sydney seemed to have been attacked by someone intent on undermining my academic credibility.

The Wikipedia page was also years out of date.

I have updated it. It is not promotional. Rather, it is accurate.

I should appreciate your assistance in what you refer to as an “edit war”.

Many thanks

Best wishes

Brian — Preceding unsigned comment added by Professoremeritusbrianmorris (talk • contribs) 01:14, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) @Professoremeritusbrianmorris: You are not supposed to edit the article about yourself. You can make edit requests on the article's talk page. It should be plainly obvious that you have a conflict of interest. Ian.thomson (talk) 01:16, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

• And it was promotional, and lacking secondary sourcing. Basically, it's the kind of thing we send to tenure and promotion committees. Drmies (talk) 01:19, 23 August 2018 (UTC)
• Thanks for your note Brian! What would be wildly helpful, would be if you could post citations for any articles that you are aware of that are about you (not by you), on the talk page, at Talk:Brian Morris (biologist). Any ideas you have, would be great to hear, there. Thanks. I also noticed that we have no article on Eugenie Lumbers which seems like a damn shame. (hint) Jytdog (talk) 01:38, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

As requested --- articles by Eugenie Lumbers

Dear Jytdog

I am not aware of any articles by others about me.

As requested, this url provides a list of recent articles by Eugenie Lumbers:

https://www.researchgate.net/scientific-contributions/2035325937_Eugenie_R_Lumbers

I'd like the Wikipedia entry Brian Morris (Biologist) Sydney to get updated.

And I certainly don't want it to be promotional. Rather, it should be factual.

Tabloid text added by others should be deleted and the entry can easily be a lot more concise.

I'd be grateful if you would help to achieve that seeing as I am regarded as having a conflict of interest.

Simply reverting it to the out-of-date version seems counterproductive to the kind of usefulness Wikepedia is striving to achieve.

I would be happy to cooperate with you if needed.

Many thanks

Best wishes

Brian J. Morris, AM DSc PhD FAHA Professor Emeritus School of Medical Sciences and Bosch Institute Anderson Stuart Building (F13) Sydney Medical School The University of Sydney Sydney, NSW 2006, Australia Email: brian.morris@sydney.edu.au or brianm@medsci.usyd.edu.au — Preceding unsigned comment added by Professoremeritusbrianmorris (talk • contribs) 02:15, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Hunger

I'm busy and I don't get many moments these days when I'm free of pain and fatigue and it's only during those moments that I can read and make sense, so I'm going to be really slow here. Thanks again for raising awareness on this, and for giving it your attention. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 09:49, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

I didn't know you were doing so poorly. I am sorry. Thanks for your time and attention to this stuff; it is so precious. Jytdog (talk) 13:22, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Lethality of firearms

Thank you for your contribution to the May discussion RfC: Wound characteristics of military-style rifles at WP:RSN, in particular thank you for suggesting several excellent on-point medical references as supplemental to The New York Times. One of the sources:

• Smith, Edward Reed; Shapiro, Geoff; Sarani, Babak (July 2016). "The profile of wounding in civilian public mass shooting fatalities". Journal of Trauma and Acute Care Surgery. 81 (1): 86–92. doi:10.1097/TA.0000000000001031. ISSN 2163-0755. PMID 26958801.

was recently summarized at Mass shootings in the United States as:

A retrospective study of 139 autopsy reports from 12 civilian public mass shootings in the United States published in the Journal of Trauma and Acute Care Surgery in 2016 found that gunshot wounds from high-velocity rifles have a lower rate of potentially survivable injuries as compared to other firearms. 371 gunshot wounds were found, included gunshot wounds from handguns, shotguns, and high velocity rifles. Potentially survivable injuries were about equally distributed between handguns and shotguns; no gunshot wounds from high-velocity rifles were found to be potentially survivable. Compared and contrasted with the results of earlier studies of injuries in military combat, military combat injuries include injuries from explosives, military personnel wear body armor and ballistic protection helmets and so have more injuries to extremities, while civilian public mass shooting events are closer range, have more injuries to the head and torso, and have a lower rate of potentially survivable injuries.

...and quickly reverted and is currently under discussion at Talk:Mass shootings in the United States#Recent edits. Some of the same editors who objected to the NYT as unreliable are now opposed to the Journal of Trauma and Acute Care Surgery. As with most academic papers, the source includes a "Limitations of this study" section which is being cited in opposition. A letter written in comment (largely agreement) to the source is being cited in opposition. Opposition includes objecting to the retrospective nature of the study as biased. Opposition arguments include WP:BLUE, that it is so obvious that high-powered rifles are more lethal than other firearms that Wikipedia need not say it.

Similar summarizations of this source were also attempted at Gunshot wound and were reverted. We could use your help, in particular your experience with WP:MEDRS. What do you think of the neutrality of the above summarization of the source? Could you take a look and perhaps weigh in? Thank you again. AviRich6 (talk) 15:17, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for your note. I will not respond at the article. If you want to draw more attention to this issue, please post neutrally at an appropriate notice board. Do be careful with regard to WP:CANVASS. Thanks. Jytdog (talk) 15:40, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Your request to please make suggestions in the talk page

Dear Jytdog

Thank you for your request. The information has improved since yesterday. Thank you to helpers. Here are some suggestions.

Education and appointments Please add the degree: text becomes: ".. where he graduated BSc with First Class Honours from the University of Adelaide in 1972." Last sentence: Since appointment as Professor Emeritus is only made coinciding with retirement, this should read: "... and upon retirement in Sep 2013 was was appointed Professor Emeritus.[2][3] He retained his office, while the Bosch Institute of Medical Research took over his lab space in 2015.[4]

Career A few things are not quite correct. In line 2 (3rd sentence): "He remained interested in the field during his PhD in Melbourne and postdoctoral years in the US, where he had the good fortune ...." In line 4: Since "prorenin" is encoded by the renin gene, "the prorenin and" should be deleted.

Awards and Honours At the very end, ref [3] is the wrong reference as it refers to the Dahl award. Instead it needs to refer to the the Irvine Page--Alva Bradley Lifetime Achievement Award. Please add this reference: .

Thank you again very much for your kind help

Best wishes

Brian

References

--— Preceding unsigned comment added by Professoremeritusbrianmorris (talk • contribs) 20:03, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Please post the message above at Talk:Brian Morris (biologist). Please do not continue posting things about the article here. Thanks. Jytdog (talk) 20:20, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Myriad Genetics "Controversy" section edits for NPOV

Hi, Jytdog!

I can see that my editions on Myriad Genetics were weighted, but how would you suggest making them more neutral? The current paragraph includes errors such as, "...Patenting genes has been an established practice since the beginning of genetic research," which the listed source (blog post) does not support; it states that the first genetic patent was in 1980, which is also not entirely accurate. It also somewhat trivializes the concern regarding the patent. Additionally, the statement that the patent "...Did not interfere with scientists’ ability to study the gene" is also not accurate because scientists had to first get permission for any non-negligible study and had to pay a fee for doing so, as noted by the source I listed in my edit. I'm just not entirely sure how to edit or replace the current sentence stating otherwise without making the section weighted in the other direction. Lastly, the final sentence of the paragraph seems to directly support the prior argument and try to invalidate concerns that scientists have difficulties publishing papers under the described restrictions. I was thinking of simply altogether removing it.

Thank you for your time!

MaxtonTheGreat (talk) 21:45, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for your note. Please post at the the talk page, and I will reply there. There are many reasons to discuss content there. Jytdog (talk) 22:31, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

A better reference: New York Times rather than "The Beast"

Dear Jytdog

Further to my message a couple of hours ago, I thank that ref 7 to a local letter box newsletter in Sydney ("The Beast") can be improved by citing instead the article that appeared in the New York Times (whcih has very much greater credibility). Thus instead of "7. Zadrozny, Brandy (2 April 2014). "New Study Says Benefits of Circumcision Outweigh Risks 100 to 1". The Daily Beast. Retrieved 31 March 2015." I suggest the following as ref 7:

"Childhood benefits from circumcision. By Nicolas Bakalar, New York Times, 8 Apr 8 2014, page D6.), http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/04/07/circumcision-benefits-outweigh-risks-study-reports/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0 "

Many thanks again for the great job you have been doing to improve the Wikipedia entry.

Kind wishes

Brian — Preceding unsigned comment added by Professoremeritusbrianmorris (talk • contribs) 22:41, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Please post the message above at Talk:Brian Morris (biologist). Please do not continue posting things about the article here. Thanks. Jytdog (talk) 00:02, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

Prager talk

Hey I just wanted to say thanks for inviting me to suggest some content in your last message. I feel like it is still possible for us to reach a consensus, and I just want to apologize for frustrating you, and for any ways that I misunderstood policy or failed to express myself well. For now I think I'm going to hold off making a proposal of content, because my voice has been heard too much on that page, and there are a few other folks involved now that are probably better positioned to make a proposal that could win acceptance from all of us. But I'd like to believe that we can still work together despite some bad blood that has come up between us, and I wanted also to say that I have found a number of points you've made to be insightful and well-considered, so thanks for that.Shinealittlelight (talk) 02:18, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

Vitamin E

I am getting back to this article after some digressions into bringing moth articles up to GA. The issue of what it does is still a mystery to me, and possible the antioxidant activity is not the only function. i.e. gene expression regulation. See Manolescu 2008 (PMID 20108516). By the way, appears I am retired from being a consultant to dietary supplement companies. I intend to wait to end of year before changing my User page. David notMD (talk) 02:26, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

Hm! There is so much we don't know about basic stuff like this. Amazing. I hope the change in your professional life is a good one for you. Jytdog (talk) 03:31, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

I am coming around to a belief that thinking of vitamin E as having an antioxidant function is akin to using the handle end of a wrench to hammer nails and calling it a hammer. In addition to Manolescu 2008, now trying to coalesce my thinking around Rimbach 2010 (PMID 20336011) and Azzi 2016 (PMID 27095224) = gene expression and signal tranduction. Intending to get it all into the article. Strong deja vu of thinking of flavonoids as antioxidants when the mechanism(s) are something else entirely. Retirement looking good. Working faster on third and fourth books (local history topics). David notMD (talk) 19:06, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

i am laughing. :) Jytdog (talk) 19:10, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

Interesting articles: PMID 28624327 PMID 27095224 PMID 27816611. The evidence for benefiting NASH appears to come from PMID 26059365. David notMD (talk) 11:02, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

yes! Jytdog (talk) 11:47, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Sugar replies

I left some replies to you at Talk:Sugar. HLHJ (talk) 03:30, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

Dead link under User Page section "Privileges removed then restored"

It currently says "ARCA discussion archived here; notice given to me here."

The first link, which currently points to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration/Requests#Amendment_request:_Jytdog_.28February_2017.29, doesn't contain an archive. The actual archive is currently located at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration/Requests/Archive_12#Amendment_request:_Jytdog_(February_2017).

Gbear605 (talk) 03:59, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

User:Gbear605 fixed, thanks! Jytdog (talk) 23:48, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

Heads-up / Signpost

Heads-up that I used your words at the about-to-be-published The Signpost Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Next issue/Discussion report. ☆ Bri (talk) 23:24, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

Eek User:Bri that is decontextualized. Eek. My message was that this is getting paid for behavior not for influencing content, but getting paid for saving an edit is getting paid, and should be disclosed, and we should treat this like GLAM with no prior review. That "bias" thing only came up with respect to people involved judging how to handle it. Please don't quote that bit. Thank you for the heads up. Jytdog (talk) 23:45, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

Can you restate what the bias blind spot pertains to? ☆ Bri (talk) 23:49, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

It pertains to people judging themselves if something they are doing is a COI or OK or not. The diff is here. See comment prior, to which I was responding. And do note the response after where offense was taken. This was really a small, unimportant part of the bigger discussion in my view. Jytdog (talk) 23:59, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

Restated, hope this captures the idea – I can't quote the entire discussion. ☆ Bri (talk) 00:22, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

That is better, thanks. But again it is not the main thing, and the people involved came to AN to ask about it. That was good of them -- very good! This is a minor piece and I don't like it being pulled out this way. But you are the reporter and all I can do is ask. Jytdog (talk) 00:29, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

Discussion involving you

• There is currently a discussion seemingly involving you at the Teahouse, if you wish to participate. Just a heads up, Stormy clouds (talk) 05:35, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

Jytdog, I have great respect for your contributions to Wikipedia. You do a lot of work on things that matter, particularly medical articles and the effects of paid editing. So please, keep up this good work, rather than getting involved in an argument about biblical criticism, a topic which doesn't affect anyone's life. (In my irrelevant opinion, your views there are right while "shine on a turd" is gratuitously offensive.) Maproom (talk) 07:41, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

For the record, I echo this sentiment, and agree with your position in a broad sense. I would similarly urge you to keep up the stellar editing work. Merely posted here to alert you to the Teahouse discussion, particularly as the H-word has been invoked. Like I said, just a heads up. I share Maproom's admiration for your editing work. Stormy clouds (talk) 07:45, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for your notes. I agree that "shine on a turd" is harsh.

I do care about and work on biblical/religious topics as noted on my userpage. This is an issue of advocacy, which is also something I work on across the 'pedia. Jytdog (talk) 14:27, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

COIs

See recent edits to my user page and two talk pages. Let me know if you think this is insufficient. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 22:59, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

Thank you

I'm really grateful to you for just now striking various comments that seem to have flowed from a misunderstanding. Not an easy thing to do, and I think it's a great help. › Mortee _talk 23:56, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for pointing out the other very reasonable explanation. If I am wrong or reasonably wrong, that's it I back off. I hate bullshit. But thank you for the note. I feel bad that all i can do is strike and apologize, but that is all I can do at this point. Jytdog (talk) 23:59, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

You could do something about the leadsection at Women in the Bible. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:52, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

I very much appreciate you. Jytdog (talk) 13:38, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

Problem editor

Hi Jytdog. There is a problem with a new editor and associated IP user having issues of WP:COI, WP:Casting aspersions and WP:BATTLE. To avoid crossing the WP:OUTING line, is it OK if I contact you by email so you can help me figure out the best course of action? Thanks. --Drm310 🍁 (talk) 18:18, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

OK. Jytdog (talk) 19:47, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

I sent you email. I checked the option to send me a copy but I didn't get it. I hope you got it... --Drm310 🍁 (talk) 22:56, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

uh...

Hey, though I realize we have had our differences, I really am honestly trying to improve that article. Thanks, I think, for your help on the references? Do you think there's any chance we could be friendly to each other? I would like that. Shinealittlelight (talk) 21:16, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

Its about the work. Focus on the work. Jytdog (talk) 21:19, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

Agreed. WP:CIV is one of the five pillars, and it makes success with the work more likely. Shinealittlelight (talk) 21:25, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

Are you saying that you actually were giving a fuck about the citations? Jytdog (talk) 21:32, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

I'm doing my best to improve the article and bring our exchange on this little section of text to a close. I haven't really figured out how the reference tag ups work yet, so I did need help on that. Are you saying that you're respecting WP:CIV? Shinealittlelight (talk) 21:41, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

Everything you have done has expressed disdain for Wikipedia, as nicey-nice as you are. Please stay off my talk page. Jytdog (talk) 21:44, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

User talk:Ilwd

Left 'em a PAID warning. Not sure at what point this goes to ANI.-- Dlohcierekim (talk) 22:27, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

Sometimes people in PR don't view what they are doing as "paid editing" It is strange but true. I am hoping that they will disclose with time. I am concerned about socking. If you look at the history of the Woods page and the now deleted history of J Metro, you will see that an obvious sock Sozerburk, moved the Woods page to mainspace, and that FoCuSandLeArN moved the J Metro page to mainspace. This is all fishy and socky. Don't know if that is paid editor(s) + company rep or all one person... Hm. Jytdog (talk) 22:38, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

They denied PAID, though that means little. THe page is still hanging out. I can make an argument for G11, but I wish someone else would delete it. -- Dlohcierekim (talk) 12:13, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

My response to them is here. The Rueben Wood page is gone. Jytdog (talk) 14:13, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Posting at ANI. Jytdog (talk) 14:40, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Toastmasters International

The main thing I added was a description of the Toastmasters club meetings. Everything I added in that regard has been a matter of fact in the real world for nearly 100 years. How is that promotional rather than informative? Every day of the year these meetings are held precisely this way and that is a big citation in itself. Do you disregard the real world in favor of journalistic articles ans such? This would constitute self destructive behavior if you think of wikipedia as a person who disregards what they see before them. Regarding promotion, does it mean anything to you that you are dealing with a non-profit educational organization who's mission is to promote good character in the society you have to live in? Encyclopedias are educational and have always had an affinity with other educational institutions. How is my description of the meetings not encyclopedic? People come to wikipedia to be informed about things and I want to add information to this article. I can only add what you will allow. If I find secondary and tertiary citations will you still limit the article for some other reasons? I fixed four mis-spellings and you did not respect the article enough to leave those alone simply for wikipedia's sake. If articles have wrong spelling it also damages wikipedia's reputation as a whole somewhat. I added a note that Smedley served as director of education at the YMCA and I'm mystified why you seem to resent that historical documented fact quite interesting to the readers. I will assume this is all about citations so I wonder why you didn't flag the article as needing citations before wiping it out. Metaphysics Man (talk) 22:32, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

Some of the worst abusers of WP for PR are non-profits; in my experience non-profits are actually nastier because of the self-righteousness.

If this is all common knowledge then there should be independent sources discussing it, right?

But above, all please keep the mission in mind. The page should be encyclopedic - not focused on what they do now or their activities now - that is what their website is for. It should provide an overview of the whole history of the organization. Again, sourced from independent, high quality sources. It is OK to use the website to fill in around the edges, but the page should not be driven by content from their website.

Does that make sense?

You might find user:Jytdog/How helpful, as an overview of what we do here, how we do it, and why we do it that way. Jytdog (talk) 22:43, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

Dash (cryptocurrency)

Hi Jytdog, I notice you removed our version history infobox from the Dash article, can you please explain why? The infobox was approved by a neutral reviewer (see the talk page). I also note that the article on Ethereum contains an infobox of their release history (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethereum#Milestones), and Google Chrome has an entire wikipedia article that follows the same format as the infobox you removed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Chrome_version_history). Technoir2 (talk) 09:02, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for asking. Please do post at the articletalk page; I will reply there. Thanks Jytdog (talk) 11:49, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

I did! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Dash_(cryptocurrency)#Releases Technoir2 (talk) 15:05, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Updates to the DNA data storage entry

Dear Jytog,

Thanks for being so diligent in maintaining the DNA data storage entry. I am writing because it can be improved in several ways:

• Results in 2015/2016 by UIUC and UW/Microsoft demonstrated the ability to perform random access on data stored in DNA. These results were published in major peer reviewed venue and are cited frequently in recent advances.
• In 2016, Microsoft/UW encoded an HD Movie from the Ok Go band. It was part of the 200MB world record that was announced and later published in Nature Biotech in March 2018 (long editing lag!), the premiere scientific venue for biotech-related results.
• There have been multiple major public research programs (DARPA Molecular Informatics and I-ARPA Molecular Information Storage Technologies) in the last year that could be featured, to show that there is building momentum.

The reason I care is that people that want to know more go to wikipedia, but as is it is not pointing to the really fast developments in this field.

I am happy to help offering more information and links if you want. I tried editing the page, but you keep undoing it, so it might better for us to agree on how to improve the article.

Thanks for your attention. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zambraia (talk • contribs) 16:29, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Please post at Talk:DNA digital data storage, and I will reply there. Thanks. Jytdog (talk) 16:30, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

A goat for you!

Hey Jytdog,

I appreciate you reverting my most recent edits, at first it hurt a bit, but after reading your user page I think I'm getting it. After graduate school I found a job where part of my responsibilities include parsing continuing medical education for local MDs, so I'm around this information often and felt like I should share it with the world.

I have some questions,

Is there a commonly accepted source for medical information that you and other super-editors trust? in graduate school it was 90% pubmed and NIH.

I just read your user page, and I very much appreciate the information I read there.

Is anonymity part of the mystique of Wikipedia, or are there meetup groups and a big in-person community?

Thank you!

Karmaticfutures (talk) 16:42, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

I am laughing over the goat image! I like goats. Pleased to meet you!

Last thing first. In Wikipedia, people can be pseudonymous if they want and if they choose that, their privacy is strictly protected by the WP:OUTING policy. Some people edit under their real names of have disclosed it here in WP; that is their choice too. There are lots of WP meetups and there is of course the big Wikimania conference every year. You can check out WP:Meetup as a jumping off point; hopefully you can find some place near where you live.

About sources, heck yes. Pubmed is the first stop; just make sure you filter for "reviews" and of course look out for predatory publishers and avoid them. :) NHS and NICE are also very, very good btw. I do urge you to check out WP:MEDHOW, WP:MEDRES, and WP:MEDMOS, and to include WT:MED on your watchlist -- that is where folks in WikiProject Medicine discuss stuff. You will find lots of good eggs there.

Finally, I was wondering what your deal is -- many of the refs that you have been brought have been great and I was happy to see you add them, and see how you used them. Jytdog (talk) 17:02, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

biblical criticism

I wondered if you had seen the DYK? mention of biblical criticism--I thought you might approve. Jenhawk777 (talk) 04:43, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

That's great! Jytdog (talk) 13:25, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

We worked it for nearly two months, and a shortened version of the original suggestion is the best we did! Jenhawk777 (talk) 14:09, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

Yeah that process can really drag out. I did it once, just to see what it was like. Jytdog (talk) 14:52, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

I did it one other time on the Bible and humor--Grabergs nominated that one--and it didn't drag out quite as long as this one, so maybe they aren't always that bad. Gerda nominated this one. She does lots of DYK? Mostly though I didn't think this was the best hook. Once someone has taken against an idea though, it's dead. No amount of defending it will save it. So the one I liked best came to an ignominious end. :-) I was hoping for more hits on the page as a result and maybe someone interested enough to show up and go through the FAC--so far nothing. This article was a long shot for FAC anyway, but I had to at least try--right? Jenhawk777 (talk) 16:29, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

Right! Jytdog (talk) 17:43, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

Hello again. I know you're thrilled to hear from me again, (humor) but I wanted to be sure and tell you that, in spite of the fact neither one of us is 100% satisfied with how things turned out, I think all in all, for two strong minded people, we can both be proud for persevering, for giving a little and getting a little, and for the result. I wasn't sure the two of us--working together--were capable of that. (more humor) But we did it. You kept your cool all the way through this time, which enabled me to regain mine, so I wanted to sincerely thank you for that. (no humor at all there) I also wanted to tell you that content wise, I think your addition to the responses section turned out to be more of an improvement than I thought it would be. I went back and tweaked a little of the other two sections in response to that addition, and the whole section is stronger and more interesting because of it. I am thoroughly pleased with the result. I know you adapted on that one too, so again, thank you. Jytdog, you can be so nice sometimes! And so the opposite at others! (humor) It keeps me a little off-balance where you are concerned, but I am hoping that perhaps we have turned a corner--you may actually have turned it ahead of me--which is okay since I am following close behind. If we have really moved into a new comradeship here, I would like to invite you to take a look at the next big article redo I am working on, Ethics in the Bible. If you decide to come and yell at me some there, I feel confident you will do so first at the absence of division between Old and New T. I interpreted the title to equate to "Biblical ethics" which is a field of study in and of itself, and have gone from there onto various topics. I have confidence your input would be worth having. (no humor at all) But I do know you're busy and it's okay if you can't. Anyway, I wanted to say thank you, and I appreciate how you handled things, and the final result--which is better than Brittanica's if you go look--was worth it. (no humor at all) Thanx again Jytdog. Jenhawk777 (talk) 17:16, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

I am not sure we are quite done at the criticism page, but we are getting there.... You are welcome and thanks for working with me too. I will look at the biblical ethics page. Btw have you had time to dig into the Boys and Levenson pieces? This is so important. Christian salvation history defined over-against Judaism is so deeply rooted in the Christian tradition, and is all over the place in content in Wikipedia, even as it is being rooted out of the scholarly fields.... Jytdog (talk) 17:44, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

I am not finished but am reading. I am genuinely interested so I will finish them. I have an Israeli friend that tells me all the time that I have a Jewish soul. :-) I think that's the nicest compliment I've ever received. I have run across several good cooperative works between Jewish and Christian writers these days. I find the fact of that collaboration as fascinating as the books themselves. One of our mutually adored writers--Tykva Frymer-Kensky--recently helped edit a book titled "Christianity In Jewish Terms" that I thought was excellent--of course everything she works on is. Things are definitely changing which is a very good thing. I'm glad I have lived long enough to see it. So--I'm almost afraid to ask--but what are you still unhappy about at BC? Jenhawk777 (talk) 21:40, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

Jytdog! I went to the historical Jesus page. I was going to see if I could agree you were right about moving all the historical Jesus stuff there --or not-- and what I wrote on criteria is there! When did you move it there? Why didn't you tell me? It wasn't there the first time I looked at that page! GD it all!! It does fit there, and now I'm thinking you were right along, and it is really pissing me off because now I feel really stupid and it's just because it was you and the way you have done things with me from the start. I get my back up as soon as I see your name. GD Jytdog! I just shot myself in the proverbial foot over nothing. You took what I wrote and put it in another article and I couldn't feel more humiliated if you had taken out an ad and plastered my name everywhere. You were right. GD! You were right. You should have told me, but still, you were right. The rest of it should all go there too. God bless America--I don't know what has been more of a struggle for me--you calling everything crap or you accepting what I wrote and moving it where it works the best. Do you hate everything I write or don't you? I don't know what to do now. Interacting with you turns me upside down every time. If I take this off of BC and move it into HJ will you fight me there or won't you? AArgh! This is making me crazy! Jenhawk777 (talk) 04:40, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

Go look please. We have ended up exactly where you set out to go. Just shoot me and put me out of my misery. I'm sorry Jytdog. Jenhawk777 (talk) 18:32, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

So...it turns out I am two kinds of idiot and everything else you've ever implied about me. I went back and looked and finally clicked on that link and saw that you did tell me about moving criteria. I didn't know because I didn't look...because I am an idiot and deserve some of the things you've said. Eating crow now--and will be eating it for a long time I'm thinking. Not only were you right, but I was a putz about it from beginning to end. You have my most genuine, deepest--and most thoroughly humiliated--apologies that have ever been offered. I will do better dealing with you in the future. I promise. I am so so sorry Jytdog. I can't say it enough. I am enjoying Levinson by the way, and so far I have agreed with everything he says. If I decide to argue with something he says--I promise to leave you alone!  :-) Jenhawk777 (talk) 21:40, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

I am glad you are finding the Levenson fruitful and are pleased with the content at Historical Jesus. Jytdog (talk) 08:08, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

Oh wow, thanx! Hey, since you have participated in Biblical criticism becoming what it is now--how about doing a review at FAC? ALL your comments there can be negative!  :-) Just teasing!! Jenhawk777 (talk) 19:38, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for September 2

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Dennis Prager, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page David Brooks (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver).

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 09:18, 2 September 2018 (UTC)

Thank you!

Thank you Jytdog for the useful Wiki links - I'm now 10 edits in, so should help in getting me up to speed! Xb5210 (talk) 21:01, 2 September 2018 (UTC)

You are welcome. Jytdog (talk) 21:34, 2 September 2018 (UTC)

Draft:Malvern Panalytical

Hi Jytdog. Hope your summer (or perhaps your winter depending upon which hemisphere you're living in) was a good one. I'm not sure how to deal with this draft. I think there's a strong possibility that Kimberlyosoep (the draft's creator) and PANalytical (the uploader of File:Malvern Panalytical logo.jpg) are connected in some way; they've both edited PANalytical and there would be no way for the former to know about the file uploaded by the latter within a minute of being uploaded without there being some connection. My guess is that they are the same person, and the new account was probably created due to the User talk:PANalytical#Managing a conflict of interest. Since the new account wasn't autoconfirmed, it couldn't upload the logo; so, the old account was used instead.

Anyway, this is still techincially a draft and my understanding is that COI editors are given a little room to maneuver when it comes to draft. It could also be that the editor is making a good-faith attempt to avoid WP:ORGNAME; however, at the same time, this may be a case of undisclosed paid editing which is pretty much never given any leeway regardless. I thought about tagging the draft with {{Undisclosed paid}} or {{COI}}, but those are mainly for articles, right? So, I then thought maybe you would have an idea on how to best proceed here. -- Marchjuly (talk) 05:21, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) I have declined the submission as an advertisement. Strikerforce^Talk 16:44, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

yep. Jytdog (talk) 16:51, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

Back pain

Hi Jytdog, I hope that you are well. Do you have a few minutes to review my recent edit? I would greatly appreciate a second set of eyes on it. Another editor added in the Cochrane review, and I made some changes. [4] Thank you! JenOttawa (talk) 15:03, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

Meniere's disease

Hi,

You quickly reverted an edit I did without leaving a comment. Did I break a rule? I thought I referenced carefully enough (and have seen forums where people are wondering about this, so it appeared useful to add here).

Please teach me what I did wrong if you know better than I do. Not seeing any comments but work simply being reverted is rather discouraging.

-Rick — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:980:93A5:1:ACF0:EE15:D104:87E7 (talk) 19:20, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

I did leave an edit note, here. Jytdog (talk) 19:23, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

Mark Bisnow article

To Follow up on your comment from Aug 16, I am not related to Mark Bisnow and it's not an autobiography. It is also not a paid post. I understand your suspicions but I am simply writing about a subject I know well. You can look at the references provided, which are all from mainstream sources. You can delete the entry if you ultimately decide it's not notable, there is nothing to be gained or lost. If I can do anything to improve neutrality please let me know.

Post

Hi. I see you left a message on my discussion page and removed all information that I have submitted to wikipedia as it is apparently "marketing or spam". Although I am not affiliated with any of these institutions, I do take personal interest in US and international business school history, culture, and related processes. The information I have submitted is all genuine information that, if you had taken the time to research or know more about business schools, are valid and non-promotional. The reason for my name is so that I could focus on a particular known group of business schools to write about on this account. I understand your actions were done with good intent, but either read the sources for yourself or rest assured that I am not marketing or spamming false information. Please leave a reply on my talk page if this needs further clarification. - m7bswiki — Preceding unsigned comment added by M7bswiki (talk • contribs) 05:14, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

Hello Jytdog. This was posted on your user page so I moved it here. Feel free to change the header to whatever you think appropriate. MarnetteD|Talk 05:21, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for doing that. Jytdog (talk) 12:26, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

I'm not a paid editor

Well, except by the Cigarette Smoking Man, but. —PaleoNeonate – 01:31, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

:) Jytdog (talk) 01:33, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

Yakult

I have to say, I was a little hurt by your closing comment on the AFD. I've put up with more crap from the keepist "improve it; don't delete it; I'll definitely help improve it after the AFD closes *wink wink*" crowd than most (I even linked to the two worst cases) -- maybe even than you -- so being grouped in with them was definitely quite a blow.

Anyway: I was about to take a stab at improving the article, but when I went back to it I found it hard to figure out what exactly your problem with what was currently there was. When I looked at the page history I noticed that you'd already removed quite a bit. At present the article makes no positive claims about the product's health benefits, and I think until, e.g., Andrew Davidson shows up and mass-reverts with the claim that "consensus at the AFD was to keep" or that "you need consensus to blank this much sourced content" or some such there is no problem. Am I missing something?

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 02:31, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, it is a source of frustration for me at AfD. Grrr. But sorry.

Yes it is fine now - I removed all the dogshit health marketing in this edit. Jytdog (talk) 02:33, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Andy Dingley (talk) 23:34, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

Hmm

I could mistaken but I have the impression that Special:Contributions/Tuchler smells of COI? What brought it to my attention was Martin Zielke and Special:Permalink/858000802 (then also noticing this, but the latter is disclosed and seems to be someone else). Your input is welcome, —PaleoNeonate – 03:30, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

This is very borderline and I am very unsure. This person may just have an interest in corporate bios. The bank rep stepping in has not helped but rather complicated things... Jytdog (talk) 22:21, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

Yes, we'll see how future edits unfold, thanks again for your help, —PaleoNeonate – 04:12, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

Rudeness

"Your comments on that source are rhetoric without substance." That's rude. WP:AGF.BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 06:46, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

it is true and not incivil. I have no tolerance for bullshit. You are disinvited from posting here. Jytdog (talk) 11:56, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

Incivility

Please note the policy on civility per WP:CIVIL, your comments on other editors who disagree with you (which is nearly all of them) on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Yakult is rude. An ANI will be considered if you continue this way. Hzh (talk) 11:20, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

Yes – please try to avoid faecal metaphors, even when justified. They don't strengthen your case, and they don't win you allies. Maproom (talk) 07:33, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

That's a point well taken. Thanks. Jytdog (talk) 16:16, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

Neurodiversity

Dear colleague, how can I include a new perspective about stuttering which includes stuttering as a manifestation of neurodiversity? I do not want to promote myself, just to include that perspective. Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cristóbal Loriente (talk • contribs) 07:08, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

Our mission is to provide articles that summarize accepted knowledge. We are not "cutting edge", nor are we a place to promote new ideas. So - if it is indeed accepted knowledge that stuttering is a form of neurodiversity, there should be high quality sources where experts in the field describe (in places aiming to provide "the state of the art in the field", like a literature review or a scholarly book) neurodiversity that also discuss stuttering. If there are any, please cite them and summarize what they say. btw, you find User:Jytdog/How helpful, as well as User:Jytdog#NPOV_part_1:_secondary_sources... Jytdog (talk) 16:16, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

pfsense edit war?

Looks like the pfsense page is going crazy again. Might be worth looking into. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.87.35.12 (talk • contribs) 17:45, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

Yep. i've asked for page protection. Jytdog (talk) 17:49, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

Community block vs ban

• cc: @Ritchie333:

I'm confused. At AN/I, you highlighted the change to banning policy from last year, which changed 'Editors who remain indefinitely blocked after due consideration by the community are considered "banned by the Wikipedia community"' to 'Editors who are or remain indefinitely blocked after due consideration by the community are considered "banned by the Wikipedia community"'. This would seem to have eliminated the classic discrepancy between a "community-imposed indef" and a "ban", as it quite explicitly equivocates the two concepts. Yet, in that same discussion, you also claim that a "community-imposed indef" is not the same thing as a "community ban". So, the question here is, was the update in policy not intended to include the notion that "Editors who are indefinitely blocked after due consideration by the community are considered 'community banned'"? Because that's what the policy says, as a result of the change you implemented. Swarm ♠ 23:18, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

You are correct. I did make a mistake here. Thanks for pointing it out. I struck it which is a bit out of order but better than leaving it wrong. User:Accesscrawl my apologies to you and everyone else. Jytdog (talk) 23:30, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

No apologies needed. No harm done. Swarm ♠ 07:57, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

I need to know if you are an admin, or have other status here higher than an ordinary user Verdana♥Bold 18:20, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

Nope, I am an ordinary user and not an admin. Btw you can see any user's privileges by going to their contribs page, and clicking on the link to "User rights" at the bottom of the page. My userrights are here. Jytdog (talk) 18:27, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

Redundant one-way IBANs, etc.

Are you going to request EditorDownUnder's ban be lifted in favour of a simply community block or site ban that can be logged on their user page rather than clogging up WP:RESTRICT? They were indef-blocked one month after they were one-way IBANned, so the logging at RESTRICT was effectively useless (those logs are really only useful for long-term issues where memories are liable to fade) and there was little doubt that they were NOTHERE to begin with. I requested this guy's one-way IBAN be lifted for the sole purpose of getting my name removed from RESTRICT, and he wasn't even indef-blocked.

That said, if you want to propose a sanction on David Tornheim, who definitely seems to be hounding you (he's edited two ANI threads in the last sixteen months, both related to you, and his comments in both have been serving to undermine you, which would be suspicious enough if he had no prior history with you whatsoever), I would definitely support that.

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 02:37, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

On the first thing, no. I don't think about these people and it is not worth doing anything unless they pick up again. On the second, it is my impression that no one pays much mind to Tornheim when they do that stuff. Jytdog (talk) 11:56, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

Good thinking. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:09, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

Not thinking = good thinking sometimes? sounds chopra-esque! Jytdog (talk) 17:11, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

Well, he does make a lot of money, maybe there's something to it? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:39, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

Something, yes. But what? "Perception transcends the doorway to photons" Jytdog (talk) 18:22, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

Transcend perception in one hand, shit in the other, see which one fills up first. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:01, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

Now there are some angels dancing on pinheads. Jytdog (talk) 04:23, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

Web economy bullshit generator

Your recent user page update reminded me of this, in case you'd like it. I don't remember what the original was, as many have created their own variants in their favorite languages (and have written two variants myself), but a search should find several. You may already know it, too... —PaleoNeonate – 07:49, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

Perfectly awful.  :) I was not familiar with that. Similar to the Chopra generator. Jytdog (talk) 10:38, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

And I didn't know that one. —PaleoNeonate – 10:44, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

"Transcendence is in the midst of potential space time events." Well, can't argue with that. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:37, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

Modafinil reversion

Hello,

I noticed you reverted an edit to the modafinil page I made because it lacked a secondary source and only had a primary source.

I have a secondary source ( a systematic clinical review) (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16669720) that also addresses modafinil for post-anesthesia sedation. It is on page 6.

Would that suffice as a secondary source?

best wishes,

gardenofalpeh — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gardenofaleph (talk • contribs) 18:16, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

In the research section, sure. Jytdog (talk) 18:18, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

Gardenofaleph (talk) 18:35, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

Okay. Can I then add the primary source for clarification of the details of the study or should I not link to it at all?

Please don't use it at all. Please just summarize what the review says. Thanks. Jytdog (talk) 18:55, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

Okay. I will do so now. Thanks for your clarifications. Gardenofaleph (talk) 18:59, 9 September 2018 (UTC)

Just in case

If you get shafted with one of those easily gameable two-way IBANs (it's probably now reached a point where even though almost everyone is in agreement you did nothing wrong, "the community" probably won't accept your refusal if you request not to be treated to a two-way sanction "for your own protection"), a lot of experienced editors have now observed that you are the victim of hounding by an editor who has specifically gamed the system in an attempt to get you in trouble. I have no doubt that a two-way IBAN will just be another tool in Andy's shed, but if you ever see that happen you can feel free to run it by me (via email, if need be) or to ping me when you report him. Softlavender (talk · contribs) is also pretty good with these things, and while Curly Turkey (talk · contribs) has not gotten involved yet (surprisingly, given how the only thing Andy's been able to throw at you that managed to stick, and the thing everyone else who isn't just making a good-faith "I don't like one-way IBANs" argument has honed in on, is that you used foul language...) knows his way around them too, in my experience. (That said, if the gaming on Andy's part was clear-cut enough, you could probably just ask Swarm or Bish to block him; they're "involved", but performing an administrative action that only an inappropriately involved admin would not would be unlikely to cause problems.) Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 03:38, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, I am really not worried. Either way this goes, Andy will control himself, or he won't.Jytdog (talk) 04:09, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, what was I pinged for? I assume this has to do with ANI and saying "fuck" a lot? The language is an issue only in the way it's used: there's a world of difference between saying "this is such a motherfucking mess" and "you are such a motherfucker". I don't know what "foul language" Jytdog has used or in what context, I don't think I've ever made a public statement about what I think of IBANs (two-way or otherwise), and I don't make a habit of visiting ANI (which is a motherfucking mess as often as not). Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 04:18, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

I have no idea, but fucking hell, hi! Jytdog (talk) 04:20, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

@Curly Turkey: Jytdog is up for a two-way IBAN because Andy Dingley manipulated a series of events to drag him to ANI, allegedly over a number of users supposedly calling him out for his foul language, which curiously included this comment by yours truly, though (quite transparently) in reality as a result of a long-held grudge over Jytdog having filed a "fake SPI" (that was CU-endorsed) back in 2016. Almost no one on ANI actually thinks the foul language, or even the outburst in which it was used, or the blanking of content, is sanctionable, and almost all are in agreement that an IBAN to protect Jytdog from more of this bullshit is in order, but the one-way option has run up against opposition both from (a) bad-faith friends of Andy and enemies of Jytdog and (b) good-faith editors who just don't like one-way IBANs, most of whom have actually never been subject to an IBAN themselves but are convinced that two-way IBANs are less liable to gaming than one-way, despite my authoritative voice on the matter telling them otherwise. I have seen absolutely no evidence that a two-way IBAN will not immediately be gamed, just subjective statements that "I'm not a fan of one-way IBANs" from editors who, unlike me, probably have no idea what they are talking about. I assume you know what I mean when I talk about bad-faith gaming of a two-way IBAN; your on-the-record disdain for the "He said fuck! Block him!" crowd is actually kinda peripheral to why I pinged you (I don't think Softlavender shares your view on that point anyway). Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 05:03, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

[5] —PaleoNeonate – 05:13, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

Softlavender's on the record as disliking my manner of locution, but she's never called for sanctions against it (I wouldn't know if she has with someone else). Otherwise, you're just making ANI sound exactly like the ANI I know. I know well enough that IBANs have been gamed, but I don't have an opinion on whether they should or shouldn't be used, or about one-way vs two-way. As long as WP is policed by volunteer cops and drive-by mobs, anything and everything can and will be gamed. Curly "JFC" Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 06:12, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

Hijiri88, btw.... I believe you are trying to be kind, but i don't like wikipolitics nor even the appearance of them. If i am doing the right thing i expect that people will see that, and when I fuck up i expect to hear about that. That is how I operate too. Just saying. Jytdog (talk) 04:35, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

For the record, the ANI has been closed with a one-way IBAN as well as some good advice. --Tryptofish (talk) 20:43, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up. Jytdog (talk) 23:16, 10 September 2018 (UTC)

St Paul's Church, Auckland

Hi Jytog. I think there might be some undisclosed COI editing going on with respect to this article as explained at Talk:St Paul's Church, Auckland. So, I was wondering if you'd mind taking a look at it just in case I'm reading too much into things. I was going to post something on the editor's user talk, but thought it be best to get another opinion after seeing their response to another COI notification/post at User talk:E James Bowman#Scandrett Regional Park, especially since the circumstances in that case seem somewhat similar to this one. -- Marchjuly (talk) 00:30, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

Friendly advice

A talented writer, which you surely are, ought to be able to select words that are functionally equivalent to "dogshit, but less controversial when assessing content. Words that may actually better describe the shortcomings of the content, so that the result of the discussions is a better encyclopedia. Words that do not scare away sincere productive young people from conservative cultures. Please select your words more carefully. Please. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 07:38, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

To quote Bishonen, "I try to ration the word to where it's really, really needed. Please don't devalue a valuable expletive by overuse"

She was talking about a different word, but the principle is sound. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:22, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

• Agree with Cullen328. --David Tornheim (talk) 11:06, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

Thanks Cullen. Jytdog (talk) 12:43, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

Engaging with a new user

Hi Jytdog, I wondered if you could give me some advice about engaging with BusinessExpert99. I've had a discussion with him on his Talk page and he's clearly cross and is talking about ceasing to contribute to Wikipedia. He's a new editor and I'd like to retain him if possible - do you have any thoughts? Many thanks, Tacyarg (talk) 20:17, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

That's a hard one. The person is already pretty angry.

This sort of thing happens a lot, exactly due to our open nature and the lack of any orientation process for new users. Some people come on in, start doing stuff, fail, and get angry and leave. That is how some people behave in new environments.

To help save this person from him or herself, you have to engage them in conversation. You'll have to pet them a bit to soothe them -- explain that it is hard to learn and lots of people struggle at first, and that it just takes time and they will figure it out if they keep at it.

But then comes the very hard task of helping them see what we actually do here, and how we do it. Some people won't see that, and if they won't, they will be happier doing something else with their time. Some people will see it.

This person seems to be writing about a small group of people. Likely, people they know. This is not uncommon but is a bad way to start because a) there is so much temptation to "write what you know" instead of summarizing sources, and b) generally there is poor judgement about notability in such situations; and c) if they do have a COI, the conflict of interest makes it all the harder for the person to see what we do here (as opposed to seeing the opportunity to promote whatever their external interest is).

It is often useful to ask a person who has edited this way, for a disclosure of any connections with subjects they have written about, so that you understand where they are coming from - that understanding will help you help them to get oriented. I imagine people have their own ways of doing that. Mine is here.

If it is helpful to you, I wrote User:Jytdog/How which tries to explain what our mission is, and how we try to realize it. Jytdog (talk) 21:38, 11 September 2018 (UTC)

Thanks very much, that's useful. This user has now been banned for sockpuppetry, but I'll remember what you say for the future. Best wishes, Tacyarg (talk) 16:32, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

Too far gone to help. ah well. Jytdog (talk) 16:39, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

Folate

can you please give an explanation why you took my paragraph down from the page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chrisbunbu (talk • contribs) 03:08, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

my edit note said not OK per WP:MEDRS and I left you this message on your user talk page (User talk:Chrisbunbu). Did you look at WP:MEDRS or read that message on your talk page? Jytdog (talk) 05:15, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

Edit war warning

You have sort of opened a discussion at WT:MEDRS. Please continue there.

Your recent editing history at Familial amyloid polyneuropathy shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See BRD for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. Jytdog (talk) 05:19, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

I was here on WP years before you got here. And the person recently and repeatedly sanctioned for edit-warring and topic-pushing, would be YOU. Do not warn me about your own editing problems. I'm fine. It's you who historically rub people the wrong way on WP. SBHarris 05:48, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

Scott Wagner

I'm not sure what you think I've missed in my conversations with VAndring, but the piling on is unnecessary. They have concerns about BLP violations at Scott Wagner, saying that the article has been edited by his political opponent. I am assuming good faith in my interactions, ignoring the anger and frustration that keeps coming out, and trying to get to the bottom of any concerns. I want the same thing as you do—an article that's accurate and neutral. Bradv 02:43, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

You are doing great! Thanks for that. Jytdog (talk) 02:55, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

While I'm not sure their efforts were entirely successful, the article is much improved. Thanks for the support. Bradv 06:19, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

Notice

You are involved in a recently filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Creationism and NPOV and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. As threaded discussion is not permitted on most arbitration pages, please ensure that you make all comments in your own section only. Additionally, the guide to arbitration and the Arbitration Committee's procedures may be of use.

Thanks, funplussmart (talk) 22:16, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

This arbitration case request has been closed. For the Arbitration Committee, Kevin (aka L235 · t · c) 01:25, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

AE?

You read my mind. I was wondering why an AE case wasn't filed regarding the Is Genesis History? page. The ANI discussion is too disjointed and the folks are not able to see things properly, myself included. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 12:20, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

It may come to that. The ANI was a useful first step.Jytdog (talk) 16:52, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Editør

See Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Editør/Archive. I think this is a spammer. What do you think? Guy (Help!) 21:57, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

the quacking, the quacking! PROMO for sure. Jytdog (talk) 22:05, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar
	For calling the Wikipedia project, beautiful and for defending the project against the hordes of Visigoths that seek to corrupt, subvert and destroy it. scope_creep (talk) 10:43, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

Cheers, —PaleoNeonate – 11:52, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

Patrick Bet-David

You have reversed me adding about the ethnic background of the said person. I was just on the process of adding references, but you reversed without much time given. About his Assyrian and Armenian origin, see for example his own post in his own Facebook account post. Here is his post message to President Donald Trump : message. Just listen to the first 2 sentences where he mentions his ethnicity and the actual name of his father David Ben-David (Assyrian) and his mother Boghossian (an Armenian). werldwayd (talk) 17:28, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

Please discuss content on the article talk page. Please be careful in sourcing - we can discuss there. Jytdog (talk) 17:29, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

I have posted the same at Talk:Patrick Bet-David for discussion and reinstating his clear Assyrian and Armenian descent. werldwayd (talk) 17:36, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

undid changes to the low carbohydrate diet page

Earlier I left changes regarding the brain utilization of glucose and ketones, but it appears that this has been undone. Please explain the issue as to why this occurred. I have a PhD in neurophysiology and biochemistry. The changes I made were textbook understandings of neuronal and brain function and clarified incomplete information regarding the site. I also serve as an editor-in-chief for the Journal of Evolution and Health (jevohealth.com).

Perhaps I've done something procedurally wrong?? If so, please advise.

Sincerely, David C Pendergrass, PhD — Preceding unsigned comment added by Drpendergrass (talk • contribs) 22:11, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

Thanks very much for your note! I left you a "welcome" message at your talk page, at User talk:Drpendergrass. Please check it out. And welcome! Jytdog (talk) 22:28, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

NPR Newsletter No.13 18 September 2018

Hello Jytdog, thank you for your work reviewing New Pages!

The New Page Feed currently has 2700 unreviewed articles, up from just 500 at the start of July. For a while we were falling behind by an average of about 40 articles per day, but we have stabilised more recently. Please review some articles from the back of the queue if you can (Sort by: 'Oldest' at Special:NewPagesFeed), as we are very close to having articles older than one month.

Project news

• The New Page Feed now has a new "Articles for Creation" option which will show drafts instead of articles in the feed, this shouldn't impact NPP activities and is part of the WMF's AfC Improvement Project.

As part of this project, the feed will have some larger updates to functionality next month. Specifically, ORES predictions will be built in, which will automatically flag articles for potential issues such as vandalism or spam. Copyright violation detection will also be added to the new page feed. See the projects's talk page for more info.

• There are a number of coordination tasks for New Page Patrol that could use some help from experienced reviewers. See Wikipedia:New pages patrol/Coordination#Coordinator tasks for more info to see if you can help out.

Other

• A new summary page of reliable sources has been created; Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources/Perennial sources, which summarizes existing RfCs or RSN discussions about regularly used sources.

Moving to Draft and Page Mover

• Some unsuitable new articles can be best reviewed by moving them to the draft space, but reviewers need to do this carefully and sparingly. It is most useful for topics that look like they might have promise, but where the article as written would be unlikely to survive AfD. If the article can be easily fixed, or if the only issue is a lack of sourcing that is easily accessible, tagging or adding sources yourself is preferable. If sources do not appear to be available and the topic does not appear to be notable, tagging for deletion is preferable (PROD/AfD/CSD as appropriate). See additional guidance at WP:DRAFTIFY.
• If the user moves the draft back to mainspace, or recreates it in mainspace, please do not re-draftify the article (although swapping it to maintain the page history may be advisable in the case of copy-paste moves). AfC is optional except for editors with a clear conflict of interest.
• Articles that have been created in contravention of our paid-editing-requirements or written from a blatant NPOV perspective, or by authors with a clear COI might also be draftified at discretion.
• The best tool for draftification is User:Evad37/MoveToDraft.js^(info). Kindly adapt the text in the dialogue-pop-up as necessary (the default can also be changed like this). Note that if you do not have the Page Mover userright, the redirect from main will be automatically tagged as CSD R2, but in some cases it might be better to make this a redirect to a different page instead.
• The Page Mover userright can be useful for New Page Reviewers; occasionally page swapping is needed during NPR activities, and it helps avoid excessive R2 nominations which must be processed by admins. Note that the Page Mover userright has higher requirements than the NPR userright, and is generally given to users active at Requested Moves. Only reviewers who are very experienced and are also very active reviewers are likely to be granted it solely for NPP activities.

List of other useful scripts for New Page Reviewing

Twinkle provides a lot of the same functionality as the page curation tools, and some reviewers prefer to use the Twinkle tools for some/all tasks. It can be activated simply in the gadgets section of 'preferences'. There are also a lot of options available at the Twinkle preferences panel after you install the gadget. In terms of other gadgets for NPR, HotCat is worth turning on. It allows you to easily add, remove, and change categories on a page, with name suggestions. MoreMenu also adds a bunch of very useful links for diagnosing and fixing page issues. User:Equazcion/ScriptInstaller.js(info): Installing scripts doesn't have to be complicated. Go to your common.js and copy importScript( 'User:Equazcion/ScriptInstaller.js' ); into an empty line, now you can install all other scripts with the click of a button from the script page! (Note you need to be at the ".js" page for the script for the install button to appear, not the information page) User:TheJosh/Scripts/NewPagePatrol.js(info): Creates a scrolling new pages list at the left side of the page. You can change the number of pages shown by adding the following to the next line on your common.js page (immediately after the line importing this script): npp_num_pages=20; (Recommended 20, but you can use any number from 1 to 50). User:Primefac/revdel.js(info): Is requesting revdel complicated and time consuming? This script helps simplify the process. Just have the Copyvio source URL and go to the history page and collect your diff IDs and you can drop them into the script Popups and it will create a revdel request for you. User:Lourdes/PageCuration.js(info): Creates a "Page Curation" link to Special:NewPagesFeed up near your sandbox link. User:Writ Keeper/Scripts/deletionFinder.js: Creates links next to the title of each page which show up if it has been previously deleted or nominated for deletion. User:Evad37/rater.js(info): A fantastic tool for adding WikiProject templates to article talk pages. If you add: rater_autostartNamespaces = 0; to the next line on your common.js, the prompt will pop up automatically if a page has no Wikiproject templates on the talk page (note: this can be a bit annoying if you review redirects or dab pages commonly).

Go here to remove your name if you wish to opt-out of future mailings. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:11, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

Monero_(cryptocurrency)

Your wholesale revert has left the article with an inaccurate heading. You mentioned that you wanted to expand the article yourself. Do you still plan on doing that? Fireice (talk) 16:17, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the unsigned edit war warning on my talk page, in my 10 years at WP I have never been to AN3. I would appreciate a reply in the article's talk section instead though Fireice (talk) 13:58, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

Challenging your revert

Thanks for the welcome and the medical article guidelines.

So that you are aware, I’ve created a new discussion ‘Definitions’ on the Talk page of the low-carbohydrate diet article to ask for your revert of my edits to be reversed. As you will see, I removed the unsourced part of the first sentence and added a plain English version of the complete Definitions from Table 1 of reference 2.

The article, as it stands, is incoherent, as someone had clearly marked over a year ago. Looking at the talk history, it seems others too have tried to improve the article but been rebuffed. Can it be so difficult to write a neutral article about low carbohydrate diets? I am aware of several recent references (both positive and negative) which are clearly missing from the article. Presumably others are too.

obhi 06:15, 19 September 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dlactyol (talk • contribs) 06:15, 19 September 2018 (UTC)

Please discuss content at the article talk page. See WP:BRD. I will respond there. Jytdog (talk) 06:17, 19 September 2018 (UTC)