User talk:Bishonen

Oh thank God for that

You are slightly returned to us. Even half a woman is better than know woman at all. Perhaps you can now talk some sense into the sisterhood here! Giano (talk) 21:11, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

It feels good to be so promptly welcomed! But, my god, sweetheart, it was largely sisterhood-related issues that got me so sour I left. Them and Sandstein. [/me leaves again, this time for good.] Jk, but seriously, no. Bishonen | talk 21:41, 7 February 2015 (UTC).

Fear not Mrs Bishonen, I have decided to join the sisterhood of Gender Gap myself. Once I've advised them to discarded their dungarees, perm their hair and put on pretty frocks, they'll find themselves high earning husbands and be as happy as can be. Is there a page where we can sign up, I'm having problems finding it by myself. Oh yes, we need to find poor Mr Sandstein a young lady - that's what he needs. The Lady Catherine de Burgh (talk) 21:46, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

High-earning husbands, Lady? Are you perchance married to Chris? - Sitush (talk) 21:54, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Oh Mr Sitush, you are amusing, but it is true that darling Christopher did have a thing about my very svelte figure sheathed in my best diamante encrusted crimson evening gown. The Lady Catherine de Burgh (talk) 22:01, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Good grief. I seem to have wandered into le salon mesdames. Could someone point me to the smoking room and have the footman bring me a brandy and cigar? -Ad Orientem (talk) 18:56, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

I think you'd be very happy in the Victorian drawing-room on this page. The ambience is snug to a fault, with a smoke-emitting dragon and a richly aromatic Bigfoot in residence. There is no ventilation bar the catflap, and cuban cigars are always on offer. See talkpage. Bishonen | talk 19:10, 9 February 2015 (UTC).

And because of that Bigfoots also lack stealth!--MONGO 19:37, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Vulgarity is not the same as wit Mongo! The Lady Catherine de Burgh (talk) 19:50, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

FGM

Hi Bish, I wanted to thank you again for helping to keep FGM and the talk page stable. The article made TFA yesterday, and I honestly don't think that would have happened if you hadn't found a way to keep things calm. All the best, Sarah (SV) ^(talk) 04:38, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Oh, and I missed it on the front page! [Goes to check it out.] Looks great. The credit for that beautiful article is all yours, Slim. Yes, you succeeded in making it beautiful despite the subject. Bishonen | talk 14:05, 9 February 2015 (UTC).

Thank you, Bish, I appreciate that. Sarah (SV) ^(talk) 05:09, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Welcome back

I am glad to see you back, Bishonen. Wikipedia needs you. ~ P-123 (talk) 11:07, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks P, that's nice to hear. Bishonen | talk 14:05, 9 February 2015 (UTC).

Ditto. Hello my dear Bishyfishymywishy. Drmies (talk) 21:16, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

And hello to you, drmiesiepie. Thinking of changing my name to DarwinDish! darwinbish ^BITE ☠ 23:01, 9 February 2015 (UTC).

Well, you are a tasty bite, even if you're not Danish. Which reminds me, today I was asked in class where I was from. "Dutchland" was proposed. Drmies (talk) 23:35, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Bish! Welcome back Remember that your talk page is still semi'd! §FreeRangeFrog^croak 21:19, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, thanks, froglegs, I thought I'd just leave your semi to run its course. I'm not around that much, and my little friend is an annoyance to the stalkers. Bishonen | talk 22:58, 9 February 2015 (UTC).

Recent block

Hi Bishonen. For info this edit removes your block template from their talkpage. I'm 99% sure you're not meant to remove a block message (can't find the policy right now). Thanks. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 19:08, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

No, that's fine, thanks, Lugnuts, it's the 1% that's got it right: blocked users don't have to keep up the notice as a mark of shame. The only thing they're not supposed to remove is declined unblock requests plus a couple of odds and ends which don't often come up. In this case, I suppose the user may have regretted his own silly comment, and have chosen to remove the whole issue. That's his right. Compare WP:REMOVED. Bishonen | talk 19:19, 9 February 2015 (UTC).

Thank you. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 19:38, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

デニッシュ戦争! ! !

Post-battle carnage from initial skirmish of the First Wiki-Dano-Swedish Danish War of 2015

It's the Scandinavian grudge match we've all been waiting for... Sharpen your kanelstænger kanellängder and lets get ready to settle once and for all who the Supreme Lords of Scandinavian Pastry Trivia truly are.

FIKA FIIIGHT!!!

Peter ^Isotalo 23:12, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

In my opinion the article should be illustrated with a fair-use image of Princess Leia with a Danish on each ear.[1] Actually I think the phrase was in Spaceballs first. No? Princess Leia in a gold bikini with a Danish on each ear, every teenage boy's dream? Bishonen | talk 23:25, 9 February 2015 (UTC).

Or, no… not Spaceballs so much. I was conflating stuff. There was a bit from Friends in there.[2] Man, they have huge Danishes in America! Bishonen | talk 23:46, 9 February 2015 (UTC).

And yet no problems with obesity, at least if Friends is to be believed. MastCell ^Talk 00:46, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

'Thass 'Merka!

Peter ^Isotalo 00:51, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Btw, "on each ear"? You sure have chaste images of boydreams. Everyone knows fikabröd belongs on da buzom.

Peter ^Isotalo 00:55, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

"Hail Columbia, Fuck Yeah!"

Ok I see you're in it for the fun of it Peter, and you to Bishonen. I was slightly suspecting that, just from the issue you picked, the lack of insight on the subject and the general rudeness of your comments. Your comments on the specific page and issue cannot be taken seriously from now on.

In addition, I have to say, that this is a really bad administration of your WP-contribution over all. Not only are you wasting peoples time on an issue you don't even care about, you are at the same time making fun of it. I see no other option than labeling your actions as "Wikipedia terrorism" and any further engagement from you on this issue, cannot be taken seriously.

When I find the time, I will report this. Wikipedia should not be a platform for time-wasting pranks and people who are here to contribute in a constructive manner, should not be wasting any time on incidents like this or find themselves ridiculed. RhinoMind (talk) 19:06, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

@RhinoMind:: actual terrorists kill and torture real, innocent people every day. People bemused by the "controversy" over a pastry are not engaging in "Wikipedia terrorism", and saying they are makes you look like someone who has lost their grip on reality. You should remove that slur, and apologize, before people choose to no longer take anything you say seriously. --Floquenbeam (talk) 19:27, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

@Floquenbeam No I will not do any of that at all. I even find your comment rude and without any proper empathy for those who are hurt by actions such as this unacceptable behaviour. However, I will gladly discuss with you, what defines "Wikipedia terrorism". It is actions that attacks good, honest constructive Wikipedia contributors. Often for no reason at all, call them "innocent victims" if you like. It is actions that deliberately scares off good, honest constructive Wikipedia contributors. And it is actions that works "behind the stage", using Wikipedia's own rules and guidelines to make the damage. It is often committed by Wikipedians who knows the ropes of Wikipedia very well. In this case extremely well. As said I will gladly discuss this further with you, you are most welcome. RhinoMind (talk) 19:37, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

You are also welcome to find another term than "Wikipedia terrorism", but this is not just a simple controversy. It is completely unacceptable. RhinoMind (talk) 19:44, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Well, you've got chutzpah, I'll give you that. Calling people "terrorists" in one breath, and complaining that someone is being rude to you in the next, shows an impressive ability to ignore one's own imperfections. No, I don't think interacting with you further would be of any use whatsoever; you've already provided me with very useful information: the kind of human you are. --Floquenbeam (talk) 19:47, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Okay, everyone calm down. The exchange here is ironic banter. It's a common occurence here on Bishonens talkpage. @RhinoMind:, I apologize if this seemed like I was engaging in provocation for the fun of it. That was not my intention. This was merely a commentary on the irony of two Scandinavians debating the merits of pastry. It was just a way to make fun of my own participation in a heated debate about something relatively innoccouos. Take it as merely fooling around. And please see this as separate from discussion about article content.

Peter ^Isotalo 19:39, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

• Thanks, Floquenbeam. Hallo, RhinoMind. I've seen you around, and wouldn't have expected such a hostile first contact from you. I hope you find the time to report anybody who has offended you in this context — Peter, me, maybe MastCell? He made a joke too. I must say I'd be interested to see it. And I hope you don't mind if I say, in complete seriousness, and please don't take it for "banter", that I especially wouldn't have expected a Dane to take a word like "terrorism" in vain in these distressing times. Bishonen | talk 19:54, 16 February 2015 (UTC).
  • Can't we just go back to squabbling about pastry...? Peter ^Isotalo 20:01, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
    • You impugn the credibility of my flaky treat at your peril, Peter. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 20:43, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
      • North, It's what pastry terrorists like myself thrive on. Peter ^Isotalo 09:07, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

To answer your question

You posed a question as to a possible sock master to Alesgeriy on AN/I, but it was closed before I could find the name. Judging from Alesgeriy's broken English and pro-Turkish bent, it could be EMr_KnG. I'll let you be the judge. --Kansas Bear (talk) 03:44, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

That looks likely enough. Pinging Dougweller, who blocked their sock Erim Turukku in November. Compare this ANI discussion, Doug; what do you think? Thank you, Mr Bear. Bishonen | talk 05:56, 10 February 2015 (UTC).

I'll look tomorrow, took a quick look today but it has to be decided on behavioral grounds as CU is stale. Dougweller (talk) 18:06, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Sure, Doug. I wasn't asking you for the sake of your magic CU powers, but because because you blocked Erim Turukku (on behavioral grounds, not for socking) in November 2014, so if you've got the time, maybe you could look to see if Alesgeriy strikes you as the same person. If you haven't, which I would certainly understand, I think I might as well indef them myself. Even if they're not 100% sure a sock of EMr KnG (who is globally blocked, btw), they're definitely a sock of somebody, and somebody not readily distinguishable from EMr KnG / Erim Turukku. Bishonen | talk 00:58, 13 February 2015 (UTC).

I've looked. Sock, yes. Whose? Not sure. Not easily distinguishable, not clearly identical. I'm not much help. Dougweller (talk) 16:47, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

That's all right, I'll be the Abusive Admin, I know you can't. It must be so dull to be an arb, poor Doug. Say goodbye to all the fun scandal instigation! Bishonen | talk 16:55, 13 February 2015 (UTC).

(Adding.) Alesgeiry hasn't edited after the 72-hour block, so maybe the account has been abandoned. Kansas Bear, have you happened to notice a new user editing similar articles, who might be their latest identity? Especially, an account created on or after 9 February? Bishonen | talk 17:02, 13 February 2015 (UTC).

Well, this IP has added back exactly the same categories(Babur, Selim I, Mehmed the Conqueror) Erim Turukku was pushing before his block. The same IP has also been edit warring on Template:History of the Turkic peoples pre-14th century and List of Turkic dynasties and countries, apparently using a few incarnations, 31.200.14.171, 31.200.12.36, 31.200.8.227, et.al. The more interesting question, is this IP actually user:Mehmeett21, logged out? Both the IP and Mehmeet21 have the same interest(s) and share the same POV. Have we stumbled upon another sock of Erim Turukku? Perhaps an Admin should be asking Mehmeett that question? --Kansas Bear (talk) 00:22, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

What is also a tell-tale POV is the addition to the Template:History of the Turkic peoples pre-14th century, of the Hunnic Empire, Xiongnu and Hephthalite Empire. A POV which Erim Turukku and EMr_KnG both shared. --Kansas Bear (talk) 00:33, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Thank you, that's very helpful. (But terribly complicated, groan.) I have full-protected Template:History of the Turkic peoples pre-14th century for a week because of the edit warring. The IPs 188.158.xx are accusing Mehmeet21 of being the person behind the IPs in the 31.200.0.0/19 range. I'm not sure, as I've seen Mehmeet21 reverting some of those IPs, for instance here. Do you have any comment on that, User:Kansas Bear? I can't say I'm well-informed about the topic. Do the IPs and Mehmeet really have the same POV? And Doug, could you check Mehmeet21 against that IP range, please? I think the indications are strong enough to warrant it. It would feel quite good to block the fortunately not very big 31.200.0.0/19 range if it turns out to be warranted. Those IPs are supposedly static, but he keeps jumping to new ones. Bishonen | talk 15:12, 14 February 2015 (UTC).

Not warranted. Anything's possible as CU can't determine if it's the same person in 2 different locations using 2 different computers, but CU shows no relationship. Thinking about it now, I probably should have said I wasn't going to do it, because if there was, I couldn't make the link. Dougweller (talk) 15:31, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

No, but if you found a connection you could have blocked, even if not publish the link, couldn't you? I know that's even more hypothetical. Anyway, I've told all of them, however many they really are, to try to come to consensus on the talkpage. Yeah, that always works with nationalist warriors. Bishonen | talk 15:37, 14 February 2015 (UTC).

(which I think you are supposed to do after 8 indents). I guess I could have blocked, I haven't made a CU block before (ie one giving that as a reason)> Dougweller (talk) 15:47, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

In response to Bishonen's question, both the IP and Mehmeet knew about the Xiongu being listed under some obscure article/template as Mongolian.[3][4] Both were intent on having Huns, Xiongnu and Hephthalites listed as Turkic while blantantly ignoring the multiple theories concerning their origins.[5][6] In this case it may just be the same POV not the same person. Mehmeet is in Sweden, I believe.

What is very clear, is that user:Madyas is definitely the IP. Same POV pushing and oddly, the same category pushing as Erim Turukku. Here Madyas has added Hunnic to the template of Turkic topics and template:Turkic peoples. Sorry multiple windows open! --Kansas Bear (talk) 18:47, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

I noticed a move edit summary of Mehmeett's in Swedish, in fact — made me rub my eyes. I won't ping any more, poor Doug, but if you see this and would like to CU Madyas and the IPs, go ahead. Bishonen | talk 19:57, 14 February 2015 (UTC).

They also both insist on Tuoba states as Turkic despite it being disputed, see this edit by Madyas and this edit by the ip and this by Mehmeett.Rajmaan (talk) 23:58, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

That's quite striking, Rajmaan. I'll sleep on it. You too, Doug? Two of those three are very recent, not sure you saw them when you looked. Do you think it might be reasonable to block both the accounts and the 31.200.xx range per WP:DUCK, as obviously coordinated, whether or not there's actual socking? Answer by e-mail if you like. Bishonen | talk 01:05, 15 February 2015 (UTC).

What was decided on user:Madyas? His recent addition of Attila and Al-Farabi, are clear Erim Turukku/EMr_KnG-type edits. Is it necessary to do the whole SPI routine? --Kansas Bear (talk) 00:08, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

No, it's not. Sorry it's dragging on, Kansas Bear, but either Dougweller will get a chance to check, per his note below,[7] or I'll most likely end up blocking Madyas myself per WP:DUCK. Attila, indeed. Bishonen | talk 05:23, 21 February 2015 (UTC).

Ok. I was just curious how it was progressing. Thanks, Bishonen. --Kansas Bear (talk) 05:48, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

P. S., Kansas Bear, Madyas has been blocked for a week by Future Perfect at Sunrise, for disruptive editing, not socking. That may be the way to go, since it's quite hard to be sure of the socking issue (I'm pretty sure Madyas has used another account — at least one — but which one?), but those potential sock/meatpuppets are all disruptive in any case. If you should see a new-created account or new IP picking up where Madyas left off, please let me know. And I'm very glad FutPerf has involved himself, he understands these subjects better than I do. (Not much of a compliment for anybody — I should rather say, he understands them.) Bishonen | talk 15:12, 21 February 2015 (UTC).

The one-week block of Madyas (talk · contribs) seems reasonable. After I was alerted on my talk by 188.158.116.74 (talk · contribs), I have tried talking to Madyas at User talk:Madyas#Complaint about your edits at User talk:EdJohnston. This did not result in any change in his behavior. There may be a question what to do after the one week block expires. If it's too laborious to figure out the socking issues, a straightforward block for disruptive editing or edit warring could be the way to go. The guy has a bee in his bonnet about 'Turkic' and never waits for discussion to end in his favor. EdJohnston (talk) 15:50, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, Ed. Well, it's too laborious for me. Perhaps an SPI is needed after all (groan). Dougweller has it on his list, but he's awfully busy. Who'd be an arb? On the other hand, I agree Madyas is eminently blockable without worrying about whose sock he is. If the one-week block doesn't cool his ardour, I'd be quite prepared to go with indef per NOTHERE and CIR. Bishonen | talk 16:27, 21 February 2015 (UTC).

Yeah, I went for "only" the week block because I just couldn't figure out who was supposed to be a sock of who, though I seemed to remember there had been some prior disruption in the area. If anybody points me to a link showing concrete similarities with previous accounts, I'll be happy to indef immediately – or just indef on CIR grounds, as you rightly say. Fut.Perf. ☼ 12:10, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

Fut, you might check out these diffs [8][9][10], provided by User:Rajmaan above. Bishonen | talk 13:09, 22 February 2015 (UTC).

I keep thinking I'll find time, then something else comes along. Sorry. Dougweller (talk) 12:19, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

AFD not deleted

Hi, you closed this as delete but probably forgot to delete the article. --lTopGunl (talk) 07:10, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

My god, yes. Apparently I was so impressed by my feat of closing an AfD (a first for me) that I went straight into self-congratulation mode instead of finishing the job. Thank you very much, TopGun. Bishonen | talk 07:20, 12 February 2015 (UTC).

Haha.. :D No problem! --lTopGunl (talk) 07:29, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Amazing that you don't know the difference between New York Times and New Yorker (or have any idea what the article said) and yet you were "closing" a discussion. Could you be less full of yourself. Go ahead have me blocked. TyrionLatif (talk) 09:34, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Oh, the New Yorker, was it? Even less reason to be impressed by that reference, then. If you want to be blocked, you'd better tell me your main account and I'll oblige. (If by now you can even remember your "main" account.) It's hardly worth my trouble to block yet another trolling throwaway sock. Bishonen | talk 12:51, 14 February 2015 (UTC).

Please protect this too

List of Turkic dynasties and countries --188.159.144.219 (talk) 04:03, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

I'll take a look when I have time. It looks a little complicated. Bishonen | talk 13:12, 14 February 2015 (UTC).

• Hello again. It's actually a little too complicated for me. I was hoping I would be able to determine consensus and close the RfC, but it doesn't seem very decisive. I've posted a note on the talkpage, just to warn people that I will protect if there's any more edit warring. Bishonen | talk 19:38, 14 February 2015 (UTC).

Hi. Thanks for your attention. Please full-protect that article. My revision is the last accepted revision before endless edit warring. --188.158.116.74 (talk) 06:54, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

Active sanction removal

Well, I stand corrected on the matter of removing active sanctions from talk pages. Since I was sure that had once been a guideline, I had to track down the debate here. Anyhow, thanks for the edification. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 17:17, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Yeah, it comes up every now and then, and at any given time, at least half the people seem to think that policy is as you thought. It's surely a good thing, though, IMO, that people don't have to wear a block notice as a mark of shame, as long as they don't intend to appeal but just to wait it out. It's logical, too: not all admins post a block notice all of the time, so why, randomly, hold the ones that do get posted so sacrosanct? Bishonen | talk 19:22, 14 February 2015 (UTC).

(talk page stalker) @Cyphoidbomb: A very recent example here. Because the user blanked the decline and some discussion but did not re-appeal the block, the removal is OK as far as I'm concerned. I assume they're letting their block expire or whatever. They could also have removed the block notice as far as I'm concerned. So long as they don't try to re-appeal, because that would be equivalent to admin shopping. §FreeRangeFrog^croak 19:59, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Hello

Hello Ms. Bishonen - I hope you are well. I see from your talk banner, that you've had a wee bout with the yuckies. Hopefully the twins are taking good care of you and getting you back to your ever-cheerful self. *Hugs* from Ched. :-) — Ched :  ?  22:29, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Oh god, the twins! I'd forgotten those uncontrollable socks! Thanks Ched, now I feel worse than ever! Bishonen | talk 06:55, 15 February 2015 (UTC).

Aw you lovebirds, nice to see you together. Have a Danish pastry on me. Drmies (talk) 20:51, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Oh heavens. All great respect for the most honorable 'Bish family, but I'd never want to run afoul of Giano and his aunt. (still wondering how ANYONE could forget about the twins though) — Ched :  ?  12:34, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

rrawrrRR ... 'Zilla eatum funny looking cupcake. (*chomp, chomp, gulp*) Mmmm ... good. Zilla thank little user Drmies — ChedZILLA 12:44, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

What twins? Giano (talk) 17:41, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

Oh, haven't you heard of the blessed event, Giacomo? The darling little twins ! We're all very happy! Or, well, Bishzilla and Bishapod are very happy. Bishonen | talk 18:29, 17 February 2015 (UTC).

User:Mehmeett21's massive sock puppetry

• Mehmeett21 (talk · contribs)
• Madyas (talk · contribs)
• And a bunch of dynamic IP addresses (most recent 31.200.xxx.xxx)

Someone report this user on Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations. He should be banned from this topic (any Turkic, Euroasian, and related historical articles). --188.158.116.74 (talk) 06:48, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

See this section higher up on the page. Note that User:Dougweller is a checkuser. Bishonen | talk 06:54, 15 February 2015 (UTC).

Thank you for protecting an unreliable/false revision!

You did very well! Please revert his edit. --14.52.61.218 (talk) 08:32, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

That may well not have been the best revision to protect on. Administrators don't pick and choose when they protect for edit warring, unless there's obvious vandalism; they're actually not allowed to take sides in a content dispute. It's a pity people on both sides ignored my warning. One way of getting more knowledgeable eyes on the article might be to post on the Neutral point of view noticeboard. If that generates convincing arguments, and thereby a consensus (which doesn't necessarily mean a large majority) I'll certainly unprotect early, and block anybody who edit wars against consensus. Note that a CheckUser, Dougweller, found, above on this page, that that there's no technical connection between Mehmeett21 and the 31.200.xx IPs.[11] Dougweller hasn't replied to socking concerns about Madyas, below in the same thread. He's probably extremely busy (being an arbitrator) — you might get another CU by opening an SPI. Sorry, I realize it's complicated. I'll also keep an eye on the talkpage and see if anybody gives good reason for me to either block or revert. So far nobody has even tried. Bishonen | talk 11:00, 16 February 2015 (UTC).

I am quite a bit busier than I expected to be, as I have ended up being the only drafter on one of the current cases. I hope to get a chance to deal with this and stuff on my talk page, but I don't know when. Dougweller (talk) 11:11, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Template:History of the Turkic peoples pre-14th century

I'm trying to noinclude the notice so it doesn't show up in all the articles. The articles are showing up in Category:Wikipedia pages with incorrect protection templates. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 01:04, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

@'Shonen: Anything between <noinclude> and </noinclude> only shows up on the template page itself and not on all the pages that make use of the template. We want the lock to show up on the template page of course, but not on all the other pages, so Ricky did right to put the <noinclude>...</noinclude> around the {{pp-dispute}} that you added. Sadly Twinkle doesn't realise it's a template page and doesn't provide the extra stuff for you. It might also be worth considering that page-protection for templates could be set at the template-editor level, as not all admins might feel comfortable answering edit-requests, but template-editors can't help out if pp is set to "Edit=Allow only administrators". Just a thought. --RexxS (talk) 02:04, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

OK, sorry. Your edit summary misled me, Rick. Bishonen | talk 13:19, 17 February 2015 (UTC).

Terrorist reported

Konditori i Påarp - check that out -typically what an average small konditori would sell, bullar, wienerbröd and småkakor; and outstretched palms.

It's on, I guess.

Peter ^Isotalo 16:53, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

Well, that was ANI for the Danish pastry. What I don't understand how can the Danish guys - just don't get the fact that other countries also eat "their" pastry. If you go in into virtually ANY Swedish patisserie and confectionery shop - the main pastry they selling it is wienerbröd, you can buy them everywhere and everybody consumes it. It is absolutely THE most popular pastry in Sweden, comparable to the French croissant, or the American cheesecake. Each and every Swede eats it and it is one of the absolute major pastry consumed in this country. Well kanelbulle might compete with it - but nothing else. Absolutely a staple food in Sweden. It is Sweden's national pastry really. And then come theses guys and say - why should we pay attention to this? It is in a way hurting the deepest feelings of every real Swede. And this we are quarreling about, it is just absurd. Incredible. I don't give a damn about patriotism, but this is a thing that is sacred. Hafspajen (talk) 19:25, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

Wienerbröd- maybe it should have an own article, yeah, wienerbröd is a red link. Sad that we can't agree about making a single article on the topic, but we can't work together that's plain. I really think we should start an article, it is notable enough. Hafspajen (talk) 19:26, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

I bet half of those people eat wienerbröd, wienerbröd is HUGE in Sweden. The most consumed, most popular and best liked pastry that exists in whole Sweden. Hafspajen (talk) 19:43, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

But then of course we are not allowed to write most popular, so how would anyone know? Hafspajen (talk) 19:46, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

Cute images from Påarp and Sundbyberg, thanks. You don't actually have to go to a konditori, as I'm sure you know — you can buy very nice fresh-baked wienerbröd in Pressbyrån, which says a lot for their popularity. Bishonen | talk 19:48, 17 February 2015 (UTC).

Pressbyrån?? Helgerån. Wienercaféet you should try, Wienercaféet that makes fresly made wienerbröd every day - and so did for the last hundred years. Hafspajen (talk) 19:53, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

Pressbyrån Danishes are definitely not for a livsnjutare. :-)

Main article: North Germanic languages

Continental Scandinavian languages:

  Danish

  Norwegian

  Swedish

Insular Scandinavian languages:

  Faroese

  Icelandic

Hafs, I suspect that those ridiculously oversizded muffins might actually be more popular. If only because for 7-11 and other dull established, it's about as difficult as packing a bear turd into paper and blasting in an industry-grade microwave oven it for a few mintes. But in finer konditorier, it's definitely a standard item.

Peter ^Isotalo 20:17, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

• In Sweden there are only a few types of cakes eaten regularely and on a everyday basis and 30-40% of it is precisely this wienerbröd- that is sold and baked - every day.

It is not a periferic thing - it is - one of the most popular cake ever. Each and every caffé has a huge supply of it, and those people have probably never ever been in Sweden, if they don't understand it, it is just something sacred and big. It is like saying to an English that the Westminster caterdral is of no importance, and Shakespeare is a local rhymester - poetaster. Hafspajen (talk) 20:33, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

But hey, WHY do we have to write about winerbröd? Everything is DANISH, wienerbröd has never even existed. IT IS ABOUT THE dough. Hafspajen (talk) 20:36, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

Why should the rest of Scandinavia and what they eat and do be important when Denmark is the middle OF THE UNIVERSE? Hafspajen (talk) 20:41, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

No, hey, Sweden is crap, of course. Hafspajen (talk) 20:42, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

In the immortal words of Omar: no doubt. 'Sall about the dough.

Peter ^Isotalo 20:43, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

• Well, there is no other articles on wienerbröd except this. And those guys tried to exterminate the Swedish, Norvegian and Finnish part and go on messing about their own sort of Danish wiener - that is actually more like 5 different types of cakes - very different from the other countries wienerbröd they those guys eat, different from all the rest of Scandinavia - the part that actually doesn't exist even in their mind.
• We don't have pubs, we have caffés. We don't go to pubs but we go to caffés - and what do we eat there? Wienerbröd! This is the HOLY - Fika (coffee break). We do that every day. All the time. Hafspajen (talk) 21:01, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

Fika is considered a social institution in Sweden; it means having a break, most often a coffee break, with one's colleagues, friends, date or family. The word fika is both a verb and a noun. Swedes consider having a coffee an important part of the culture. You can fika at work by taking a "coffee break", fika with someone like a "coffee date", or just drink a cup of coffee. As such, the word has quite ambiguous connotations, but almost always includes something to eat, such as biscuits, cakes and even sweets, accompanied with the drink. This practice of taking a break, typically with a cinnamon roll or some biscuits or cookies, or sometimes a smörgås or a fruit on the side, is central to Swedish life, and is regularly enjoyed even by government employees. AND THUS WIENERBRÖD is a holy sacred institution too, because nobody drinks only the coffe. But coffee AND wienerbröd. So that's it. Hafspajen (talk) 21:07, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

I bet they tried to add wienerbröd to the article when they discovered it was a red link and gave up. I am upset. Hafspajen (talk) 21:08, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

It is a major Swedish ritual. Hafspajen (talk) 21:11, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

And, a second thought - the Danish don't like the Swedes. Hafspajen (talk) 21:41, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

And now this: Category:Talkpages decorated by Hafspajen, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page Hafspajen (talk) 22:11, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

Me? Joshua Jonathan created it. Bishzilla was admittedly quick to put her pocket talkpage in the category. Bishonen | talk 22:44, 17 February 2015 (UTC).

No? -sigh, this is not my day. Thought only admins created categories. Hafspajen (talk) 01:25, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

No, no. There's a whole new field for you, Hafspaj! Bishonen | talk 11:33, 18 February 2015 (UTC).

Freedom!

Freedom!

Non-violence!

Not just your day, Hafs. Our day! For on this bleak winter day, the good, honest, humor-loving users of the Nether-Western Territories of Wikipedia rose up, and with one voice cried: "We will stand for this tyranny no more. DELIST!"

Peter ^Isotalo 13:37, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Yes, mr Konditoriterrorist, but that's more an appeal to the nominator, isn't it? And they have not responded. So I worry that a literal-minded closer will close as "Delete", because, you know, there's one Delete and zero Keeps. Or, perhaps more likely, that it'll be relisted with the "to generate a more thorough discussion" template thingy. I know, it wouldn't make any sense, but is that any guarantee? Bishonen | talk 13:53, 18 February 2015 (UTC).

Seriously? Do people actually pull that kind of ruleslawyering shit...?

Peter ^Isotalo 13:57, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Are you new here? But most people don't, no. Bishonen | talk 15:44, 18 February 2015 (UTC).

Should've been "do people actually still pull". But I guesss I'm still a dreamer...

Peter ^Isotalo 17:05, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Tröstfika

At least I had me a wienersemla yesteday. If you know anyone who's good with image tweaking, it could use some yellowing-down.

Peter ^Isotalo 14:11, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Björnkram. Hafspajen (talk) 15:04, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Crisco 1492 know just about everything about image fixing... maybe, Peter if you ask nicely he can make your semla less yellow. Also, how are you going to get it in the article, that's a mystery. A plain wiener was no good there - a wienersemla will make everybody freak out. I still think you should create a plain wienerbröd article, there is plenty to write about in it. Hafspajen (talk) 14:50, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

I'd ask my Danish sister-in-law about pastries, but she's coeliac so probably has never eaten any. Dougweller (talk) 14:56, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

• Huh. I live near Copenhagen .... just 1 hour from here. I know very well what they do, but they don't seems to know what we do up here in Sweden. Hafspajen (talk) 15:04, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

• Haffy, which image? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:45, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

• Crisco 1492, the bottom image with the "Tröstfika" caption. Peter ^Isotalo 17:05, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

• Is that any better? --RexxS (talk) 18:39, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

• Or this? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:20, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

• The colors! The crispness! Must resist... temptation... to lick laptop screen... Peter ^Isotalo 01:20, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Hafspajen (talk) 09:50, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

• Saffranspannkaka - for you guys who still edit Swedish sweets. Hafspajen (talk) 06:55, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Blocked editor back

No idea who this actually is but they're back. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 21:25, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

Well, I suppose it's some indeffed user. All I know is they're this range too. I suppose those 3-month blocks have made them realise that IPv6's are quite easy to keep out, so now they've moved on to ordinary old-fashioned IPs. Blocking is more a gesture; we can revert and deny recognition, that's all. Until such time as Wikipedia puts a stop to all IP editing. This guy's disruption is comparatively minor, actually. Bishonen | talk 22:40, 17 February 2015 (UTC).

Bpandey89

Bpandey89 (talk · contribs) seems still to be at it, pushing their POV by synthesising unreliable Raj sources etc at Talk:Bhumihar. You posted a discretionary warnings note on their talk back in September but they are clearly not giving up on it. Is it time for them to be directed away from articles about a caste of which they are a member and towards, say, articles about pastries? - Sitush (talk) 07:00, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

I've started writing up a warning to them, to explain that there's a limit even on talkpages, but I have to run now; back in a few hours. Also working on a request for discretionary sanctions for pastry broadly construed. It's really the only thing when you have a hot topic like that. Bishonen | talk 12:00, 19 February 2015 (UTC).

Warning placed. Now to the discretionary pastry sanctions, and perhaps a request for a full case to deal with Floquenbeam's abuse of tools on the Danish pastry pages. Bishzilla has what she refers to as "the entire cute little arbitration committee" in her pocket, so there shouldn't be a problem. And Peter, I noticed you drooling over the wienersemla image above (please don't lick my page); don't you think it might be better to stick to subjects that don't excite you quite so much for a few days? Bishonen | talk 15:52, 19 February 2015 (UTC).

You mean like sulcus intermammaria? With descriptions of cleavages as "elegantly sloped in alignment with Hippie chic" or "buffed, pumped and engorged" still present I'll have nooo problem.

What do you prefer, Bish; sloped or engorged?

Peter ^Isotalo 16:04, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, Bish. If ever I get round to working out a lead for User:Sitush/sandbox3, it should go a long way towards resolving queries regarding the Raj census operations. As for pastries, although French rather than Danish, I always liked the dicdef for an éclair: "A cake long in length but short in duration". - Sitush (talk) 16:31, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Is WP:SITUSH policy yet? It would read:

• 99% of admins really have no clue whatsoever about caste-related stuff, and lack the initiative, time, intelligence, or desire (or a combination of two or more) to find out. So the approriate rule of thumb that any admin can follow when asked to do admin-y stuff related to Indian castes is "do whatever Sitush says".

This is so obviously the wisest approach that I would normally go ahead and create such a page, but since I'm calling out Sitush by name, I figure that would probably make him a target of some kind, and wouldn't be cool.

I'd recommend creating WP:ERIC for grammar and style questions, WP:MAGGIE for copyright questions, WP:CRISCO for image questions, WP:RAMBLE for In The news questions, etc. etc. I've probably forgotten some obvious ones. Like WP:BRAD for ways to assume more good faith than is warranted, maybe (Aaack! that's a blue link!), or WP:PETER for pastry questions. Most subject areas probably have a go-to person, we should just enshrine them in policy. And use WP:BISH for everything that doesn't have a specific person listed. Unfortunately, WP:FLOQ would really only be useful for questions about being a smartass...

I top-posted this above the stuff from Bpandey below because this is more of a general philosophy of Wikipedia, and (as described above) I have no idea what's going on with this specific conflict. Except that based on past history, Sitush is correct approximately 99.5% of the time in matters like this, and is thus probably correct here as well. --Floquenbeam (talk) 17:56, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Hi Bishonen , you are telling that i am putting up unreliable source of british raj. you should know that the legends mentioned in article page about babhans have also first appeared in british era and in british document. If you are so sure then please find out any credible text stating such legends or myths, earlier to british era. All those myths originated during british time and spread all over. Babhan word and it's mention in ashokan edicts is not at all propaganda or partial view point. it has never been written or mentioned in wikipedia page. babhan is a pali word found in ashokan edicts . Many of the authors like C. A. Bayly, willium pinch, Susan Bayly, ,are not colonial authors whose materials have also been disregard. please go through the citation before commenting on anybody. What ever i have written on the talk page is not at all my view but it is view of the books and documents which i have cited on talk page. One of the author has told that bhumihars were termed as shudra in early british census record like kayasthas led them to form caste movement but none of the british raj census which i have cited have mentioned bhumihar as shudra(please verify it and do not get confused with bhuiyar and bhumihar therefore stick to babhan word). I have always been polite and i do not want to show any kind of disrespect to any human being or even any creature on this planet. Only one request i want to make please go through the citation and talk page before making any view regarding me.

Bpandey89 (talk 21:39, 19 February 2015)

Hi again, Bpandey. Floquenbeam is correct that admins don't know much, especially not in areas like caste. It's not my job to do independent research in the area, or to edit the article. I do have some understanding of policy, though, and I would like you to respond specifically to these 2 questions:

1. Have you clicked on the policy links I gave you and read the policies, at least the first paragraphs of them? If not, why not? If you have read and found them hard to understand, please ask. If you have read and disagree with them, please go away, because the policies are obligatory. They're not suggestions that you can disregard.

2. What's the matter with your sig? Why did it link to your talkpage, before Voceditenore corrected it, and especially, why is the timestamp off by (in my timezone) 5 1/2 hours (plus one month), as the History shows it is?[12] Did you write in the date and time by hand, as they are in your timezone? That would be very confusing; please remember Wikipedia is a global encyclopedia, and the clocks round the world all show different times. On the other hand, no.. I can't believe it's still January in your timezone! Please let the software handle the signing, by either a) typing 4 tildes ( ~~~~) or b) clicking on the little "your signature with timestamp" icon in the row of icons just above the edit field. Please use one of these methods. Then the timestamp will be adjusted to the person reading, and to all the other timestamps on the page. Or, well, you don't have to respond to this question, it doesn't matter what went wrong; just please read what I say, and follow my instructions for signing.

Finally, though I'm indeed no expert on caste matters, I couldn't help but notice that you refer, above, to a history book from 1916 as your authority. That's obviously ridiculous. Look, I'm only going to say this once more: please listen to Sitush's good advice about reliable sources in this field. Oh, yes, did you read the brief guideline WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT, which I have already referred you too? Wasting everybody's time is disruptive in itself, if it goes far enough, and you can be blocked for it. Bishonen | talk 18:24, 19 February 2015 (UTC).

hi Bishonen , it is quite unfortunate that you are diluting the point by circling around the main objective. On talk page if i have made some mistakes in writing a date do not make me a culprit possibly. You have already told that you are not expert in this topic neither do i but my persistent effort to know and collect materials and my research on this topic has made me much aware of this specific caste. what ever i have written is not at all my view point but it is the materials from standard text and renowned historians which i have already cited. I am not at all pushing my viewpoint but i am writing the viewpoint of historians with proper book citation. The communist writer (aswani kumar) has also cited many early 19th century as well as 20 th century literary work. Most of the discoveries regarding ashokan edicts were already done during early 20th century so it is not at all mocking to use the book i have cited above. In wikipedia many of the aspects are taken from a single source ashwani kumar, who is not at all a historian. His book is more focused on the plight of so called Dalits and overemphasized violence of babhans. You can find out many instances opposite happened but merely he has been mentioned such in his entire book. you are alleging me to be biased or pushing some view point but i want always be neural covering all the corners whether it be negative or positive. Sorry for inconvenience which i have made to you but honestly speaking, i have written all this even after going through the policies you gave me to read. I deeply regret that nobody is there to listen neither me nor my citations. Bpandey89 (talk) 17:09, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Block

Thank you for imposing this block. As you may have seen from this SPI, I have been harassed relentlessly since the beginning of January. It is a shame it cannot be proved. This is just an FYI, btw, not a request for comment! ~ P-123 (talk) 16:33, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

And thanks for this block too. I had half a mind to ping you about this long-term vandal/POV-pusher (having seen your earlier block of the user), but decided to wait for the next time the IP edited. You saved me the effort! Abecedare (talk) 22:04, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

My pleasure, in both cases, though I have a nagging worry about yours, Abecedare, because it's supposed to be dynamic. Maybe 6 months is too much? But it has obviously been used by the same individual for a whole year now. Dynamic schmynamic. Bishonen | talk 22:10, 22 February 2015 (UTC).

The same person has clearly made all the edits from that IP since March 2014. So obviously their ISP's DHCP lease period is pretty long and effectively they have a static IP (esp. given that the current user did not/could not change their IP during the previous 2 week block). And in case the IP does transfer to another customer within 6 months, and that customer decides to edit wikipedia and that customer does not have a pre-existing wikipedia account, hopefully they'll ask for an unblock or a chance to create a user account instead of just giving up. Haven't completed the Drake equation style analysis of all that happening, but I'd hazard that the term of your block is quite reasonable. Abecedare (talk) 22:26, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

FYI, the user has shifted to 198.166.54.108 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) (same ISP; geolocates to 30km away, although that is always rough in my experience). Don't know if they still have access to IP 68.145.238.122 (talk · contribs · WHOIS), but if they do continue to use 198.*, maybe 68.* can be unblocked. No immediate action needed. Abecedare (talk) 22:18, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Just for info, a DHCP client will normally ask for a renewal of the current lease before it expires and the DHCP server will normally re-allocate the same IP address. That's how a dynamic IP address can stay the same over repeated lease periods as long as the client stays connected. HTH --RexxS (talk) 01:58, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

I have a couple questions, but per wp:beans - I think I'll email it. (tomorrow) — Ched :  ?  04:57, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Ban....

Why was I banned? I wasn't vandalizing the page I was making it look for detailed more accurate as its missing Key information and important facts and material the stuff added by David A. With the theories given aren't in marvel and he is taking real life theories into fiction I was simply being a contributor. Beyonder (talk) 07:02, 26 February 2015 (UTC)BeyonderGod

You were blocked for edit warring, see this discussion. Also, I read the history of the page, and I'm afraid I agree with Origamite and David A that your changes introduced grammar problems and made the text harder to understand. But that's not the main point: edit warring hurts the project, and persistent edit warring is a blockable offense, whether or not you're right about the content. Please see WP:3RR. I'm sure you're a good-faith editor trying to improve Wikipedia, but edit warring is simply not allowed, and you had been warned about it. Bishonen | talk 09:28, 26 February 2015 (UTC).

There is always a boudoir somewhere

Thank you very much, Hafspajen. I'd like all my amiable talkpage stalkers to come and have tea with me in it. Even so, the one you put in Bishzilla's pocket[13] is unbeatable. Don't you think so, dear Lady Catherine? Bishzilla is pretty good with the taste and elegance, but she'll always defer to your judgement. Bishonen | talk 00:10, 27 February 2015 (UTC).

Oh, well, this is more the official afternoon-tea salon. The pocket is for cake-orgies...:) Hafspajen (talk) 00:13, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Ah dear, little Mrs Bishonen how sweet of you to invite me to your boudoir. How charming it looks. I always admire those who can do their own upholstery, and I don't agree at all with those who say that shabby chic is passé - anyway that's not really chic is it? It's so nice to see that you've found a fellow Nordic to converse with and lure into your boudoir. Sadly i can't remain to tea with you because between you and me (par devant les servants) Stackars Eric är offer för några hemska kvinnor med millitant attityder. So I have to attend to that. The Lady Catherine de Burgh (talk) 17:07, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

The poor men of our era. And if it's not dåärdetspanjorena. Hafspajen (talk) 01:04, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

dude

dude,

i am kurd. my family is kurdish for thousands on years.

turkey is establish as country in 1923. prior to this it was

ottoman empire. in the ottoman empire there were only kurds, jewish,syrians,bulgarians, greeks and armenians.

you blocked me for a month, bcoz i'm helping you to correct an article?

kurds are fighting for independence. we are going to have free country, independent and free. why you are blocking me to tell me that i'm nationalist?

dude, you are not going to win a noble peace prize you know. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.70.251.91 (talk) 12:07, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

The IP is referring to this junk. Still WP:NOTHERE. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 12:12, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Re-blocked for 3 months by User:Materialscientist. Bishonen | talk 14:30, 27 February 2015 (UTC).

The IP is absolutely dead wrong! Ms. Dudess, aka Bishonen and her entire entourage, especially Bishzilla, are hereby awarded the NOBEL PEACE PRIZE for spreading peace and harmony and bringing light to dark corners of the globe!--MONGO 16:35, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Almost big enough medal for Bishzilla! Thankee little MONGO! bishzilla _ROARR!! 16:44, 27 February 2015 (UTC).

While noting the obvious errors of even basic facts in the original posters comments, specifically regarding the "only" phrase, I am more than grateful to see that, perhaps, we might have talked Bishzilla into wearing something. Now maybe we can talk her into wearing a little bit more than just the medal? I am reminded of a joke Peter David once wrote about She-Hulk about how the, um, amount of distraction that character supplies can be rather problematic, and that problem tends to increase conversely to the amount of covering worn. John Carter (talk) 17:13, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

[Freezingly.] Bishzilla great believer in modest attire. Wear all-over spiderman suit at practically all times. Hope little John Carter not venture hint at occasional private disrobings during moments of sweet dalliance.[14] Would be most tactless and brutish. [With growing indignation.] John Carter offensive masculinist discourse frighten away all of delicate sensibility! No wonder gender gap! [Huffily, Bishzilla unwraps the medal and eats the chocolate. Feels a little better.] Women need chocolate![15] bishzilla _ROARR!! 18:18, 27 February 2015 (UTC).

John Carter little perv who is noted for having, um, fallen in love with Dejah Thoris on first sight, which happens to have been when she was completely unclothed. John Carter also frankly delusional little idiot who seems to think he bounces between planets for no readily understood reason. John Carter will try to remember to take all the prescribed pills on a more regular basis. I sowwy. John Carter (talk) 18:27, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

[Bishzilla softened. Never carry grudge, in contrast to saturnine Bishonen.] Little John Carter seek enlightenment, study Feminist Hulk. bishzilla _ROARR!! 18:38, 27 February 2015 (UTC).

Yes, women need chocolate. I've saved one for later tonight - she'll enjoy my last Rolo. - Sitush (talk) 18:24, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Better be chocolate in that thing...

Peter ^Isotalo 17:17, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Next time I post in Bish's talk page I shall start with dude... and finish with ...dude! §FreeRangeFrog^croak 17:18, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Like a proper Internet marine. "Dude, yes, dude!!!"

Peter ^Isotalo 17:21, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Is proper attribution needed?

"eggshells armed with hammers." - can I use that? :) — Ched :  ?  14:55, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Not attribution to me, anyway! It's an internet meme about typical message board interactions. Originally coined of a type of thin-skinned battleship with big guns; I can't find the Wiki article where I read about those ships, but here's a link. Bishonen | talk 15:15, 28 February 2015 (UTC).

Hmmm ... guess I'm not too old to learn new things. I thank you. — Ched :  ?  15:29, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

Page protection at article Sony Pictures Entertainment

Hey pal. I need to have the Sony Pictures Entertainment page protected from ongoing vandalism. Certain IP users have been changing the article without giving a certain reason. I already warned two IP users and yet, one user didn't find an article why abbreviations shouldn't be allowed on a Wikipedia article after I notified the user. Perhaps you can help. King Shadeed (talk) 11:44, February 28, 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, King, I don't mean to go bureaucratic on your ass, but you'd better take it to WP:RFPP. I just don't understand the subject well enough to make head or tail of the issues. Bishonen | talk 16:54, 28 February 2015 (UTC).

(Oops, tripped on my DSL cable again! Ughh, I need a longer one and to route it differently!)

Dear sister Bishonen, the "king" is just whining because he errantly thinks that if someone removes his "precious" abbreviations as a way of cleaning up some clutter, it's supposedly "vandalism," even though it really isn't. He says he wrote that article, so perhaps a good lesson in WP:OWN would suit him.

75.162.181.141 (talk) 12:02, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Global Slavery Index

Hallo Bishonen, Alessandro writing! No, don`t worry, it is not because of what you are thinking that I am coming here :-) Some months ago there was a flood of edits on many nation articles (also Switzerland :-))), which were spammed with info about slavery on their territories. The problem is that the used data are highly controversial, since they come from a private foundation, the Walk Free Foundation which, according to its critics, used questionable methods to generate them. This led to the block of users (see for example here). Now, since a couple of weeks, the whole story started again (on Uzbekistan, Haiti, and a few other articles), this time pushed by user User:3rdWorldkid (another sockpuppet?). I reverted its edits and left a message on its talk page, but I don`t know how the thing is going to evolve, so it would be good if you could take a look on it. Thanks, Alex2006 (talk) 07:48, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

Hi Alex! If they persist after your warning, I think we need another ANI. The previous one was a little inconclusive,[16] with nothing decided about Walk Free. Perhaps the WF foundation needs adding to the spam blacklist after all. You notice that 3rdWorldkid took part in that discussion, so they're supposedly aware of the issues. Lying low for a while and then starting up again is not cool. (I see Zarcusian reinserted the text at Uzbekistan, too, probably in good faith, as an IP had reverted 3rdWorldkid without an edit summary.) Bishonen | talk 09:34, 1 March 2015 (UTC).

Thanks! As detective, you are better than Montalbano... :-) I could not find this ANI. Yes, I will start another ANI if it will be the case. Unfortunately the scheme is always the same: someone takes a real issue, creates a subjective ranking about it, and this becomes a world standard...THe NZZ wrote a great article about this mania (or business?) some months ago, but who reads a Swiss newspaper? :-). Cheers, Alex2006 (talk) 11:00, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

[With false modesty:] I just came across it in 3rdWorldkid's contributions. As a thankyou for the compliment, I've removed the silly "Camilleri is an atheist" in Andrea Camilleri. Check out the source given for it..! The category is for public, militant atheists. Dawkins is an atheist in that sense, yes, Penn Jilette is an atheist, but Camilleri? Who are the religious categorisers who keep teasing out private half-acknowledgements and add that stuff? Probably just nerdy gnomes who think they've found a corner where they can "help Wikipedia". Bishonen | talk 13:03, 1 March 2015 (UTC).

Baciamo le mani Donna Bisciona :-) I am glad that you know Camilleri too. He is a wonderful writer, and his first four Montalbano books are real little jewels, giving an insight of Sicily and the Sicilians (the RAI Montalbano serie is also very nice). About the index, the 3rd world guy answered here: from his answer it looks like he is working for this organisation. I read the critical paper about this index, and after that I think that the related article should be deleted. For the moment, I added a referenced "Controversy" paragraph. Salutammo Donna Bisciò :-) Don Alex2006 (talk) 07:20, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

It's a rather unclear answer, isn't it — maybe a language problem. "I have the feeling they have selected me"? Perhaps he means rather that he feels chosen to do this. "I am in sympathy with their cause" doesn't sound exactly like he works for them, either. I dunno. Good controversy section! Bishonen | talk 09:51, 2 March 2015 (UTC).

In German there is a good adjective for this: "auserwählt", that is "the chosen one", "the elect". I also think that he feels himself called to fulfill this mission...Let's hope for the best, since I could cite a couple of cases in history where this kind of "call" brought (and still brings) several problems to the mankind. :-) Alex2006 (talk) 10:00, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Bishamonten

Bishamonten in 1536

Hafspajen (talk) 19:14, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

[Bishzilla is intrigued by handsome manly face, but doubtful too.] Hello there little cousin Bishamonten! bishzilla _ROARR!! 19:22, 1 March 2015 (UTC).

What are the chances that a new account might appear if I bang on this here nipple gong?

Peter ^Isotalo 01:08, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

"Just say when..."

Self blocks

As your name appears on Category:Wikipedia administrators willing to consider placing self-requested blocks, you may sign at the newly revamped Wikipedia:Block on demand page, along with comments and a link to your requirements page, if any. I hope I did not err in sort of reviving that page. Thanks, SD0001 (talk) 15:04, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

I had no idea there ever was such a page! It's a very good idea to revive it, and I'll sign, sure, but I think there should be a bit of discussion on talk first. For instance, I wouldn't want it to be a policy proposal (that just seems cumbersome, because no such policy is needed today), but more of an info page. I'll comment on talk, but wouldn't you like to post there yourself first, to kick off, SD0001? The last post right now is from 2013. Bishonen | talk 15:22, 2 March 2015 (UTC).

Well, I've made a note on WT:Block on demand. Bishonen | talk 15:37, 2 March 2015 (UTC).

Actually, I intended you to leave your sign at the relevant section here in the same manner as others have done at WP:RRN#Editors willing to be asked to nominate a user. I have also notified almost all of the other admins listed at Category:Wikipedia administrators willing to consider placing self-requested blocks. When are enough names there, the category link should be moved to the see also section. Yes, no policy amendment is required, as the category until now served the same purpose. SD0001 (talk) 15:49, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I understood where you wanted me to sign, but, as I said, I think there should be a discussion about the status of the page first. I mean, I don't want to sign a proposal for a new policy, as I'm not in favor of such a proposal. Bishonen | talk 16:54, 2 March 2015 (UTC).

Two IPs harassing my talk page

Hey. I don't mean to bother you, but I need two IPs blocked from harassing me on my talk page, saying I vandalized the Sony Pictures Entertainment page. They are: 75.162.207.17 and 75.169.16.76. It appears to be the same person. King Shadeed (talk) 11:30, March 2, 2015 (UTC)

And the same as 75.162.181.141 higher up on my page, I'm sure. I've semiprotected your page. Bishonen | talk 16:59, 2 March 2015 (UTC).

They are the same person, just as this one is. I accidentally tripped over the too-short cord that connects my internet router to the service jack, and that changed the address. I need to get a longer cord!

But, Bishonen, you just cater to this hypocrite as if it's "okay" for him to falsely accuse someone of "vandalize" his page just because they put a warning on his page, even though that is the exact thing he did to their page! Don't give in to these spurious requests so easily, please.

Plus, he has a bad habit of trying to WP:OWN articles just because he wrote them. Please do something to curb this nonsense.

Thanks, 75.162.203.151 (talk) 00:40, 3 March 2015 (UTC) (for now, until I trip on the cord again)!

Shadeed, I kinda agree that this shouldn't be called vandalism.

With that said, IP-user, edit warring over petty stuff like this won't ingratiate you with experienced editors.

Peter ^Isotalo 01:02, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Users can remove what they like from their own talkpages and you don't get to restore the removed post. Doing so is harassment, and no, it's not allowed and is certainly not "the exact thing he did to your pages: he warned you once, as is reasonable. Please don't make it a virtue that you make extra trouble for you opponent by flitting from IP to IP, making extra talkpages that need to be warned. That may not be your fault, but it's not KS's fault either is it? And you, not he, have the remedy: If you want to take responsibility for your own edits, and give other editors a chance to have one user talk to discuss on, there's nothing to stop you from creating an account. Don't restore removed usertalk comments again or you will be blocked. Bishonen | talk 04:38, 3 March 2015 (UTC).

Okay hold up. Was THAT for me?? If so, I get warned by an IP user that's using multiple IDs by not looking up reliable sources or taking it to the talk page and I get blamed??? That doesn't sound right. He didn't take it to the Talk page on the SPE NOR SPT page, but I did on the latter name. Whoever that IP user is for using multiple IPs is doing is creating an edit war with ME so that I would get in trouble!! And whoever that user is that is using the same IP that starts off with "75" needs to be investigated. King Shadeed 01:19, March 3, 2015 (UTC)

I believe Bish is on your side here, Shadeed. I might have obscured that with my comment, though. Sorry about that. Didn't mean to trivialize the pointless talk page violations by the IP-user. I just wanted to note that short personal messages are usually better than templates in these kind of situations.

Peter ^Isotalo 07:52, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

• King Shadeed, not sure you're talking to me, but for my part I wasn't blaming you for anything. Do you flit from IP to IP? Do you need to create an account? No. My comment was for 75.162.181.141, 75.162.207.17, 75.162.203.151 and 75.169.16.76 (=all one person, which they don't deny). They restored removed comments at your talkpage, which is harassment, and that's why I protected your page against harassment. I'd quite like to block them, but it's pointless with IPs that change with every post. I can't investigate who is using the IPs, I don't have the tools for it. Checkusers can't do that kind of investigation either. Bishonen | talk 09:17, 3 March 2015 (UTC).

I was just making sure. I was confused. All's forgiven though. I was like "Hold up! What did I do??" But thanks fellas, I appreciate your help. And Bishonen? Sorry about annoying you or something of another. I was trying to find an administrator to help me out whenever something turn into a mess. I mean I LIKE editing here! I've been here since '06. Though, I still got a lot to learn here, heh-heh! And Peter? Thanks for your help too. King Shadeed | Talk 11:58, March 3, 2015 (UTC)

Bish, by "the exact thing," I didn't mean the restoration. I meant just posting the warning in the first place. I wasn't thinking about the other thing. Even if I managed not to trip on my cord (really gotta get a long cord and reroute it--and not accidentally break the little tab on the plug that helps keep it plugged in!), there would be no point in blocking me, because just doing what I've done with this so far isn't really block-worthy. Okay, I know you're an admin. and shadeed and I are not (although he acts like he thinks he is), but that really doesn't seem like something a person should be blocked for.

And no, Peter and Bish, I'm not making it a virtue that I... blah, blah, blahh.... I wasn't even thinking about doing that... but hey, thanks for the idea that I could use down the road! Anyway, I'm not making up the tripping thing as a kind of convenient ruse for trying to make reverting look like it's being done by different people so that shad will look like the one who should be in trouble. I wouldn't even have known that I could change my IP address that easily had it not been for that tripping (the first one being a long time ago), so I wouldn't have thought of that for just faking him out. But no, I didn't trip the cord out after every posting.

Oh, but thanks, Pete, for agreeing that calling the removal of an abbreviation shouldn't be labeled as "vandalism." And Bish, shad was already falsely accusing me of "vandalizing" on his talk page before I reposted the warning. So I was like, "Oh, really? So just every posting you disagree with is 'vandalism'? Grow a bit of skin!"

Besides though, guys, if one user is warring with another, then that other is warring too! It's not a one-way road!

Even then, what about shad's articles with all of these abbreviations just to have abbreviations on them? Are those so important? If so, why? For example, why is it "so important" to clutter up the lede of something like One Magnificent Morning and Sony Pictures Entertainment, etc. that they must be protected for *any* length of time?

75... or 65.whatever.I.am.now.... 65.130.207.32 (talk) 09:33, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Uh, let's get something straight here, whoever you are, I didn't falsely accuse you. You DID what you DID. End of discussion. Have a nice day. King Shadeed | Talk 20:01, March 4, 2015 (UTC)

Dcrsmama's talkpage

They're pretty intent on removing anything negative on their talkpage. I think we may as well not get too freaked-up about it, but if they attack then an eventual ANI may be appropiate. Or not. You're the sysop! —George8211 / T 21:08, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

They can remove whatever they like on their own page, but if there are any more edit summaries like that, or other further disruption, I will be the sysop, don't worry. (If I'm awake. Bedtime is approaching in this timezone.) Bishonen | talk 21:15, 3 March 2015 (UTC).

Blocked.[17] ANI, bah. Bishonen | talk 21:45, 3 March 2015 (UTC).

Consider revoking talk page access... EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 22:14, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the notification, EvergreenFir. I've removed the strange copypaste from the Reliable sources noticeboard, but no, I won't revoke tpa as yet. I don't believe in doing that just because they're claiming they're right and everybody else is wrong. A blocked user is allowed to vent, as far as I'm concerned. Bishonen | talk 23:23, 3 March 2015 (UTC).

I wonder, it this [18] a personal attack? I think so, and I would like to remove it, but, well, I don't usually mess with others' talk pages. Dbrodbeck (talk) 12:42, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Never mind, please leave it, Dbrodbeck. I blocked them, I have no problem with a little abuse, as long as it's only directed at me. People don't like being blocked, it's human. I've replied, though (after some hesitation) and I've also revoked tpa — not for attacking me, but for re-inserting crap that I had removed once. Bishonen | talk 14:03, 4 March 2015 (UTC).

Thanks for replying. I left it figuring hey, if it didn't bother you, no worries. Thanks again. Dbrodbeck (talk) 14:42, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Likely to be a long-term project ... aka, Another True Believer. Just another Wikipedia pharm schill. 14:48, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Sock of some sort?

Might want to check out the talk page of Pakistani Nice country (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). It has a sock template on it and links to a diff related to another user. Can't make heads or tails of it, but it's related to you so thought you might recognize it. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 06:05, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

indeffed for multiple reasons. I removed both the forged Bishonen sig and the "sock template". (why does such silliness always seem to find you Bishonen? Perhaps the "gif" on your edit page? .. :)) — Ched :  ?  06:49, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Ched! EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 18:41, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Bish -what an editnote

File:I samma ögonblick var hon förvandlad till en underskön liten älva.jpg

Hafspajen (talk) 13:54, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Ah, Giano and Bishonen, portrait of a friendship! A just and profound picture of a somewhat unequal relationship! Bishonen | talk 15:20, 6 March 2015 (UTC).

What a charming picture of my nephew; he used to look so lovely at that age in his little sailor suit; he's still so very angelic. Now, I can't stop here gossiping to you - I'll be late for my Swedish class so it's "Jag har en gul smörgås i min barnvagn" for now. The Lady Catherine de Burgh (talk) 16:51, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

DS notice

Hi Bishonen, would you consider putting a discretionary sanctions notice on J. Scott Armstrong pursuant to WP:ARBCC? While Armstrong is a marketing professor, a substantial part of his notability arises from his criticism of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, his offering of what he views as a wager on climate change, and other activities related to climate change. If I should be asking somewhere else (maybe WP:AE?) just tell me off. Thanks. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 01:26, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

The article isn't in the Climate change category; I'm trying to figure out if it would fall under those sanctions. The principle is apparently the same as for WP:TBAN. Check it out: only climate-change related parts of the page would fall under the sanctions. Thinking about it. My god, I hope it won't take a clarification request. (I'm dead.) Talkpage stalkers? Please? Bishonen | talk 10:40, 8 March 2015 (UTC).

(talk page stalker) Your conclusion is correct; however, since this person is still alive, his biography is also covered by WP:NEWBLPBAN. Salvio ^{Let's talk about it!} 10:44, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Wow, useful.. or, well, that one doesn't have a talkpage template or alert code or such-like, does it, Salvio? I don't see one. So how am I supposed to alert people they might fall under it? We're always being told it's important to use the correct early warning system before sanctioning somebody per discretionary sanctions. Yet another DS headscratcher. Bishonen | talk 11:05, 8 March 2015 (UTC).

I believe the templates should be {{subst:Alert|blp}} for user talk pages and {{Discretionary sanctions|blp}} for article talk pages... Salvio ^{Let's talk about it!} 11:10, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Cool, thanks very much. OK, Boris, I've added a couple of templates to the article talkpage, with a note about how the CC sanctions apply only partially. I guess it's all more of a formality, as it would be an unusual editor who read all that stuff at the top. There's a forest of it. Anyway, now you or anybody can add user alerts using {{subst:alert|cc}} and so on, if there should be reason to. Bishonen | talk 12:36, 8 March 2015 (UTC).

Thanks Bish, Salvio. I have reason to expect this article may heat up so it helps to have all the formalities in place. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 16:33, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Please reconsider

This from QuackGuru was horrible. I don't know how much experience you have with disability, but to those of us who do, it's awful, and User:John is 100% right that it's blockworthy -- for anyone, and certainly someone who should know better given a block log and much experience. My initial reaction at ANI was overly hot and ABF, and I struck it and am sorry. My revised comments are here under "Support block per John".
P.S. Just read article on your username-sake; was surprised it didn't have more art.... here's a start at least. [19] --Middle 8 (contribs • COI) 23:52, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) What exactly did you want 'Shonen to reconsider? Sanctioning QG, instead of warning him? You're really not the most uninvolved editor to be going around trying to sweet-talk admins into getting rid of your opponents for you. You might note that striking a comment implies disavowing it. You didn't strike your comment, but merely hatted it, implying you downgraded its relevance, but stood by it. If you really are sorry about your overly hot reaction, then actually strike the comment. Folks might be tempted to take your contrition more seriously then. --RexxS (talk) 00:44, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for explaining that. Yes, by hatting, I was indeed intending to disavow the whole thing, so now have struck as well. Otherwise, my (non-struck) comments at ANI speak for themselves: this, and this too. And right now am feeling about as disinclined to "sweet talk" as I can remember ever feeling on WP, so kindly spare me any pokes, veiled or not. Thanks! --Middle 8 (contribs • COI) 02:02, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Hello, Middle 8. I'm not changing my opinion about a warning being the best action, and I was rather glad to see Kevin Gorman deferred to my call and thus didn't block directly. But of course I won't object to a block if consensus develops for it. I note, though, that A1candidate and you, who are both agitating for a block, have previously shown your interest in getting rid of QG on the alt med articles. Perhaps not because he pushes back against your POV there, but, well, the agitation coincides with the fact that he does push back. Bishonen | talk 10:17, 9 March 2015 (UTC).

I know you've struck out your sentences about my callousness and nauseating hypocrisy on ANI, but it still seems a little soon to be making nice about bishōnen just 12 hours later, here on my page. It strikes my ear hollowly. Bishonen | talk 10:17, 9 March 2015 (UTC).

Caucasian male with tousled blond hair to the jawline, head turned to the left.

Björn Andrésen at 16 years of age during his audition for the role of Tadzio

Yes, I can see how you might imagine I was trying to "make nice" by pretending to have an interest in Bishōnen, but actually I'd recently watched the (extremely creepy) documentary Chicken Hawk: Men Who Love Boys, and found the former to be an interesting contrast. And that actor whose photo I added, Björn Andrésen, really does have quite a striking face, like a Greek statue, just as the novel said.

The stuff I wrote (and later struck) was mainly aimed at editors generally failing to understand disability and showing double standards, and were written while I was furious about QG's attack. Being accused of lying about one's disability is especially offensive, moreso than being accused of lying about other stuff. Grokking this is part of disability awareness and I don't see much disability awareness in that ANI thread. Nothing new there; it always takes time to appreciate how things look to a disadvantaged minority. --Middle 8 (contribs • COI) 14:09, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Request for clarification

Hello, I do not believe we have crossed paths before, and I'm writing on your talk page only because I've been pinged in a comment above and we're both involved in a dispute regarding QuackGuru. I think these disputes could be quickly resolved as long as as there is honest and direct communication between both parties. Therefore, what I would like you to do, is to clarify your comment about me so that I could understand the context behind it.

This is important because you appear to have implied that I had shown an interest in getting rid of QuackGuru on the alt med articles in the past, but I must point out that merely presenting diffs of an editor's misbehavior is not equivalent to showing a desire to get rid of them. Up till now, I have never asked for QuackGuru to be blocked or banned anywhere in Wikipedia because I do not believe in enforcing such forms of serious restrictions without a good reason. Perhaps I do not have a strong memory and I may have forgotten where I have done so. In that case, could you remind me of where I had "shown my interest in getting rid of QG on the alt med articles"?

I am confident that you will respond to my request for clarification to avoid a misunderstanding and give me the answers that I respectfully seek. Thank you. -A1candidate 16:08, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) I think 'Shonen may have been confusing you with the editor who filed

• Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive820#QuackGuru

or the one who signed up to this request "I foresee no lasting remedy short of a lifetime topic ban for science and health, broadly construed." at:

• Wikipedia:Requests for comment/QuackGuru2#Outside view by Jojalozzo

or perhaps this one "... recommend that QuackGuru be given a lengthy topic ban on all articles relating to pseudoscience and/or alternative medicine, broadly construed" at:

• Wikipedia:Requests for comment/QuackGuru2#Outside view by Guy Macon

No doubt once she's realised you've "never asked for QuackGuru to be blocked or banned anywhere in Wikipedia", she'll get back to you. --RexxS (talk) 17:13, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Biographical infobolloxes

O-hisashiburi de gozansu.

Back when I last checked WP:MOS (or something similar), there was, I believe, a mention of the ability of an article creator or a Wikiproject (or both, or similar) to disallow (or at least discourage) the later addition of Template:Infobox person and the like: clutter that may well help the reader of bios of footballers, "Playmates" and the like but that for more substantial people merely duplicates, emphasizes trivia, grotesquely simplifies ("known for"), and in other ways dumbs down the resulting article. Now that I look for it again, I can't see it. Did I merely imagine this permission, or is it alive and lurking somewhere I haven't thought of, or have the forces of dumbitude prevailed and disposed of it? -- Hoary (talk)

(watching) I believe that it is a myth. Nobody here can "allow" or not allow anything in a collaborative project that anybody can edit. Some people love bollox, some hate it, I find it useful. When someone who hates it removes one, added by a new user (who is ignorant to love and hate and the complexity of the situation) to an article of someone who loves it but is not permitted to add one, by the power of arbcom (yes, that can happen in a collaborative project that anybody can edit) we reach the farce of a farce ;) - In case you remember that there was something about classical composers, read the projects recent friendly discussions, - but better listen to music by Handel ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:28, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

• Senpai, I haven't seen that, but then I've never taken part in the infobox wars. (They're called bollox now, really, Gerda, and by you? Interesting.) Could some other tps who knows about this perhaps-MOS thing weigh in as well (no disrespect, Gerda) — Giano, RexxS? Bishonen | talk 10:17, 9 March 2015 (UTC).

To make farce farcier: I was taken to Arbitrary Enforcement, possibly because the above remark ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:28, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

The actual policy (reaffirmed by Arbcom in 2013) is The use of infoboxes is neither required nor prohibited for any article by site policies or guidelines. Whether to include an infobox, which infobox to include, and which parts of the infobox to use, is determined through discussion and consensus among the editors at each individual article. Individual editors and individual Wikiprojects are expressly forbidden from announcing that all of "their" articles should or should not have an infobox, although in some fields (most noisily classical composers) there's a broad consensus that infoboxes in their current form are unhelpful, while in stat-heavy fields like sporting biographies there's an equally firm consensus that an infobox should be included unless there's a good reason to leave it out.

Certain editors, on the other hand, are specifically barred from adding or removing infoboxes, to try to put on a lid on the tendency of infobox skirmishes to escalate into full-blown shouting matches. – iridescent 11:47, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Thank you, all. Of course nobody "owns" anything ... except that in a very few ways they do, in effect, do just this. Try the series of (infobollox-irrelevant) edits starting here, their summaries, and the talk page: as we see, the creator of an article can fix its spelling and date order in perpetuity. My inner autocrat would like to create articles with no bio-infoboxes and have them stay that way, but I suppose the only chance for this is to have the relevant WikiProject agree that the things aren't necessary; and unfortunately this WikiProject is moribund. I suppose I should be grateful that most of what interests me is of no interest to popular culture, so I don't have to worry about additions of tidbits about "references" within Grand Theft Simpsons or whatever it is. -- Hoary (talk) 12:57, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

The creator of an article cannot fix the style of its spelling and date format in perpetuity. The rule is that articles' spelling and date format are decided first by whether the subject has "strong ties to a particular English-speaking country"; then by the style that the article has evolved using (if consistent); finally, if none of the previous applies, by the style employed by the first major contributor who introduced that style. Even then, the style can be changed by a consensus of editors at the article - but it would have to be a strong consensus to survive challenges because consensus can change. Wikiprojects have no authority to make policy for individual articles where a broader policy already exists - and that broader policy already exists for spelling and dates. As you can see, the article creator gets no mention whatsoever in policy. --RexxS (talk) 13:43, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

As I understand it, nobody needs to argue for the addition of a bio infobox, let alone get "consensus" for it; whereas somebody wanting to get rid of one that's just been added is likely to be charged with vandalism, attempted "ownership", or mere perversity. Thus there's a systemic bias toward the addition of the things. I suppose that sooner or later a policy will be dreamt up to formalize this. ¶ As a ferinstance, how's the trivia info collection at the top right of "Robert Doisneau"? (For me, if it's tolerable, this is thanks to the way the gravediggerese term "resting place" turns the whole thing into a joke.) -- Hoary (talk) 14:11, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Perhaps you understand it wrong. Anybody daring to add an infobox to a whole swathe of articles owned by a small group will immediately be reverted and told that a Wikiproject has decided that these sort of articles won't have infoboxes. See https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ludwig_van_Beethoven&diff=636026932&oldid=635894308 for a classic example of a new editor being bitten and fobbed off (the inline comment is the Wikiproject's decision and the talkpage archives don't show anything of the sort). On the other hand, a group of anti-infoboxers are able to remove infoboxes from articles that have had them for years - some of which even appeared as Today's Featured Article with the infobox - with no more justification than "I don't like it". For example:

• https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=William_Burges&diff=649271566&oldid=649055615
• https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sophie_Dahl&diff=634133713&oldid=634133537
• https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Albert_Ket%C3%A8lbey&curid=732460&diff=650519171&oldid=650508597

and so on. Check the edit summaries. So why not actually take a look at what's happening before expounding your prejudices? --RexxS (talk) 15:40, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

• As I mentioned above, I've never taken part in the infobox wars. The not taking part in them is one of my favorite parts of Wikipedia, so please take this elsewhere. Bishonen | talk 17:28, 9 March 2015 (UTC).