Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard

"WP:DRN" redirects here. For the "Deny Recognition" essay, see WP:DNR.

Welcome to the dispute resolution noticeboard (DRN)

This is an informal place to resolve small content disputes as part of dispute resolution. It may also be used as a tool to direct certain discussions to more appropriate forums, such as requests for comment, or other noticeboards. You can ask a question on the talk page. This is an early stop for most disputes on Wikipedia. You are not required to participate, however, the case filer must participate in all aspects of the dispute or the matter will be considered failed. Any editor may volunteer! Click this button to add your name! You don't need to volunteer to help. Please feel free to comment below on any case. Be civil and remember; Maintain Wikipedia policy: it is usually a misuse of a talk page to continue to argue any point that has not met policy requirements. Editors must take particular care adding information about living persons to any Wikipedia page. This may also apply to some groups. Noticeboards should not be a substitute for talk pages. Editors are expected to have had extensive discussion on a talk page (not just through edit summaries) to work out the issues before coming to DRN. Do you need assistance? Would you like to help? Request dispute resolution If we can't help you, a volunteer will point you in the right direction. Discussions should be civil, calm, concise, neutral, objective and as nice as possible. This noticeboard is for content disputes only. Comment on the contributions, not the contributors. Off-topic or uncivil behavior may garner a warning, improper material may be struck-out, collapsed, or deleted, and a participant could be asked to step back from the discussion. We cannot accept disputes that are already under discussion at other content or conduct dispute resolution forums or in decision-making processes such as Requests for comments, Articles for deletion, or Requested moves. The dispute must have been recently discussed extensively on a talk page (not just through edit summaries) to be eligible for help at DRN. The discussion should have been on the article talk page. Discussion on a user talk page is useful but not sufficient, because the article talk page may be watched by other editors who may be able to comment. Discussion normally should have taken at least two days, with more than one post by each editor. Ensure that you deliver a notice to each person you add to the case filing by leaving a notice on their user talk page. DRN has a notice template you can post to their user talk page by using the code shown here: {{subst:drn-notice}}. Be sure to sign and date each notice with four tildes (~~~~). Giving notice on the article talk page in dispute or relying on linking their names here will not suffice. Do not add your own formatting in the conversation. Let the moderators (DRN Volunteers) handle the formatting of the discussion as they may not be ready for the next session. Follow moderator instructions There will be times when the moderator may issue an instruction. It is expected of you to follow their instruction and you can always ask the volunteer on their talk page for clarification, if not already provided. Examples are about civility, don't bite the newcomers, etc. If you need help: If you need a helping hand just ask a volunteer, who will assist you. This is not a court with judges or arbitrators that issue binding decisions: we focus on resolving disputes through consensus, compromise, and advice about policy. For general questions relating to the dispute resolution process, please see our FAQ page. Become a volunteer We are always looking for new volunteers and everyone is welcome. Click the volunteer button above to join us, and read over the volunteer guide to learn how to get started. Being a volunteer on this page is not formal in any respect, and it is not necessary to have any previous dispute resolution experience. However, having a calm and patient demeanor and a good knowledge of Wikipedia policies and guidelines is very important. It's not mandatory to list yourself as a volunteer to help here, anyone is welcome to provide input. Volunteers should remember: Volunteers should gently and politely help the participant fix problems. Suggest alternative venues if needed. Try to be nice and engage the participants. Volunteers do not have any special powers, privileges, or authority in DRN or in Wikipedia, except as noted here. Volunteers who have had past dealings with the article, subject matter, or with the editors involved in a dispute which would bias their response must not act as a volunteer on that dispute. 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Title	Status	User	Time	User	Time	User	Time
Rafida	In Progress	Albertatiran (t)	31 days, 8 hours	Robert McClenon (t)	2 days, 3 hours	Shadowwarrior8 (t)	1 days, 6 hours
Methylphenidate	Closed	Димитрий Улянов Иванов (t)	7 days, 4 hours	Robert McClenon (t)	2 days, 4 hours	Robert McClenon (t)	2 days, 4 hours
AT&T Corporation	Closed	Emiya1980 (t)	1 days, 1 hours	Kovcszaln6 (t)	6 hours	Kovcszaln6 (t)	6 hours

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Last updated by FireflyBot (talk) at 18:46, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Current disputes

Talk:Rob Ford mayoral campaign, 2014#Ben Johnson and Sam Tarasco

– General close. See comments for reasoning.

Filed by Ivanvector on 20:39, 2 July 2014 (UTC).

Closed discussion

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. Have you discussed this on a talk page? Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already. Location of dispute Talk:Rob Ford mayoral campaign, 2014#Ben Johnson and Sam Tarasco (edit | subject | history | links | watch | logs) Users involved Ivanvector (talk · contribs) Kingjeff (talk · contribs) Dispute overview This dispute is regarding whether or not we should say that Ben Johnson and Sam Tarasco are part of Rob Ford's campaign team, based on available sources. On April 8 this year, Johnson and Tarasco met with Ford, who announced that they were joining his campaign team; the announcement was well covered. A day later, both Johnson and Tarasco said they met with Ford for an unrelated charity event and he surprised them with the announcement, and denied that they have any official role in the campaign. Two sources I added to the article quote Ford's campaign manager backing this up. User Kingjeff is reading this (I think) as saying that they are involved with the campaign but with no particular task, while I read "no official role" as meaning they are not officially part of the campaign team. The dispute is explained in more detail on the talk page. Kingjeff has also accused me of POV pushing related to this (on my talk page) which I don't take as offensive (it's Rob Ford after all) but I disagree that my edits are biased. I wish only to include factual information from reliable sources, and not publish half-truths about living persons. However I recognize that I may not be able to see my own POV on this (I live in Toronto) thus input on neutrality would be greatly appreciated. Have you tried to resolve this previously? After User Kingjeff reverted a series of my edits, I opened a set of discussions on the talk page. We reached a compromise on most of the issues, but we are not able to resolve the dispute described above after fairly extensive debate. Since Kingjeff has accused me of pushing a non-neutral POV, I feel that the likelihood of the two of us resolving this one-on-one is remote. How do you think we can help? We need a neutral editor to review the sources and determine what is appropriate to include in the article. Any other commentary is welcome. Summary of dispute by Kingjeff Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker. Talk:Rob Ford mayoral campaign, 2014#Ben Johnson and Sam Tarasco discussion Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary. Administrative note: In my opinion there has been significant talk page discussion and the issue is defined and meets the scope of DRN. All participants have been notified and as soon as Kingjeff (talk · contribs) provides a summary I will begin moderation of this dispute. Cheers!-- — Keithbob • Talk • 13:43, 3 July 2014 (UTC) The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Jennifer Rubin (journalist)

– New discussion.

Filed by Cwobeel on 17:22, 3 July 2014 (UTC).

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

• Jennifer Rubin (journalist) (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Users involved

• Cwobeel (talk · contribs)
• Factchecker atyourservice (talk · contribs)
• Malerooster (talk · contribs)
• Sean.hoyland (talk · contribs)
• Sepsis II (talk · contribs)
• brewcrewer (talk · contribs)

Dispute overview

There is an unresolved dispute about critical material about this person. Involved editors have been reverting each other over past several weeks.

Have you tried to resolve this previously?

Requested feedback at the BLP/N - Talk page discussion Talk:Jennifer_Rubin_(journalist)#Very_serious_POV_problems

How do you think we can help?

By providing moderation in te discussion to identify common ground and arrive at a compromise.

Summary of dispute by Factchecker atyourservice

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

Summary of dispute by Malerooster

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

Summary of dispute by Sean.hoyland

Thanks for the invite but my involvement there is limited to reverting site banned racist psychopath Grawp/Wikipedia:Long-term abuse/JarlaxleArtemis, someone who has issued countless threats of violence and been disrupting Wikipedia for 10 years. They are probably the single worst offender in Wikipedia's history. Why they are not in prison or a psychiatric ward given that their identity is known is a bit puzzling. I have no interest in the article or any content issues. I understand from Factchecker atyourservice here that sledgehammer-like reverts may cause collateral damage, at least in their view, which is entirely possible, but I'm assuming editors who are actually interested in the content can cover that. Sean.hoyland - talk 19:01, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by Sepsis II

This is a common problem around ARBPIA articles, one editor tries to whitewash it, I restore and inform the whitewasher why their edits are inappropriate, they violate BLP by posting insults to notable writers, no one cares as the target isn't anti-Palestine, brewcrewer reverts me as he often stalks my edits, the whitewasher continues to not listen, then they go to boards. Sepsis II (talk) 23:57, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by brewcrewer

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

Jennifer Rubin (journalist) discussion

Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.

Administrative note: Dear Cwobeel (talk · contribs), if you wish to move forward with this case at DRN, you will need to close the discussion at WP:BLPN. Please post a note here when you have done that. Also, what is the critical content that is under dispute? Please specify this in your case summary above. Thank you.-- — Keithbob • Talk • 17:57, 3 July 2014 (UTC)(DRN volunteer coordinator)

Closed the BLP/N discussion as requested. The disputed material is on this diff. It is about the critical responses generated by an article authored by Rubin for Commentary Magazine, criticism on comments Rubin made in the wake of the 2011 Norway attacks, and controversy about Rubin's accusing the Occupy Wall Street movement of antisemitism. - Cwobeel (talk) 18:46, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

OK, good. Have all of the WP editors listed above been notified that there is a DRN case and that they are invited to participate?-- — Keithbob • Talk • 17:47, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

It appears that all of the parties listed have been notified but Aua was very active in the thread you specified as being the core issue and he/she is not listed. Can add and notify him/her please?-- — Keithbob • Talk • 18:30, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Just saw this! Can't believe I almost missed it.

I apologize in advance for being a tad slow in posting my opinion over the next couple of days because real-life is keeping me away from WP, but I'd be happy to make a statement the soonest I'm able to.

Cheers, Λuα ^{(Operibus anteire)} 23:20, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Talk:Bob's Burgers

– New discussion.

Filed by ChrisP2K5 on 18:09, 3 July 2014 (UTC).

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

• Talk:Bob's Burgers (edit | subject | history | links | watch | logs)

Users involved

• ChrisP2K5 (talk · contribs)
• EvergreenFir (talk · contribs)
• Fyrael (talk · contribs)
• Mosfetfaser (talk · contribs)

Dispute overview

There is a debate going on concerning the setting of the show. I have provided information from the creator of the show saying there's no definite setting. Two other editors have claimed there is a definitive setting, in spite of this, and have linked to several articles by other people opining that it's New Jersey. They claim that since the info comes after the interview, they're right. I say that the word of the show's creator must stand until otherwise proven wrong, which opinion does not do.

Have you tried to resolve this previously?

A report was filed by EvergreenFir at AIV and 3RR against me, and I filed an ANI report against him/her due to what I perceived as inappropriate conduct. I offered two compromises to include the information about New Jersey as the theoretical information it was, while keeping the factual data intact. This was rejected as they insist opinion be counted as fact. For the record, here is the interview. Note the response given in the first question. [1]

How do you think we can help?

By definitively declaring one way or the other whether fact should be overridden by opinion.

Summary of dispute by EvergreenFir

See the following for past discussions: AN3 closed by EdJohnston, a request for page unprotection closed by Ymblanter, and Talk:Bob's Burgers#Location. The talk page lays out the arguments for and against the New Jersey issue.

ChrisP2K5 has been engaging in a battle on Bob's Burgers and the associated talk page for a few days now. They only began dialogue once templated for edit warring and vandalism. ChrisP2K5 is convinced they are correct and is unwilling to compromise (calling it acquiescing [2] and that there's nothing to compromise about [3]). ChrisP2K5 appear to suffer an acute case of WP:TRUTH (at least what they believe to be true; as seen in their answer to "How do you think we can help?" above) and does not understand WP:RS. Despite multiple recent reliable sources and an aired episode placing the location of the show in New Jersey, ChrisP2K5 keeps going back to an old interview with the show's creator evoking a reverse "word of god" argument. They have claimed the newer sources are not RS (despite editorial oversight), OR, and somehow citing an episode and/or having a link to a screencap on the talk page is COPYVIO. I've offered compromise ([4]), getting called a WP:RANDY for it ([5]) and having my COMPETENCE called into question. ChrisP2K5 is so stubborn that this DRN is their last resort when it should have been their first.

Despite what they say, they have not offered compromise once until today. The original compromise was Fyrael's to which ChrisP2K5 replied "As far as I'm concerned, it's open and shut. This whole charade is useless." Even Mosfetfaser, who did everything they could to BOOMERANG me on the AN3, agreed with the compromise to which ChrisP2K5 replies "I do not support that because it still allows the false and misleading information onto the page."

Frankly I am surprised this editor is still unblocked. I haven't been a perfect editor in this incident, but I've tried to put my annoyance aside and compromise to build a better encyclopedia and for it I've been insulted repeatedly and told over a dozen times I'm plain wrong. Now that ChrisP2K5 has no options left, they appear to have come to DRN to at least get their way partially. Any other less experienced editor would have been blocked by now for being extremely disruptive and WP:NOTHERE. For a user that's been here much longer than I have, I am appalled. But it's clear from their user talk page they have a history of this sort of behavior. I am frankly extremely tempted to do nothing, let the PP expire, and watch ChrisP2K5 continue the to edit war and edit against consensus and be subsequently blocked. (I would have been much happier to compromise days ago, or even yesterday but the ANI report, false statements in the above statement, and subsequent behavior have burned a few bridges). But if the other involved editors want to come to some agreement, I'll follow suit since that's the right thing to do. Hopefully my mood will improve. PS - Part of my grump today is that a family died yesterday and we're going to her funeral this weekend instead of to the park with her like we planned. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 22:12, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by Fyrael

It's a bit hard to believe that this has come to a dispute resolution, but here are the primary points as I see them (I have posted basically the same summary on the talk page):

• The show's creator gave an interview as linked in the description above that talks about the shows setting. He places it firmly in the Northeast, but aside from that implies that the location is a mystery. Notably, he does not say that the location is intentionally ambiguous. He describes it as a "semi-Springfield", which could mean lots of things.
• In the season after this interview, the show itself displays a map showing the Belchers leaving their home in New Jersey to go on a trip. If this happened before the interview that would be a different story, but it happened after.
• In multiple sources provided by user EvergreenFir, the setting of the show is mentioned as being New Jersey. I believe that at least two of the sources qualify as WP:RS: [6] and [7]

I had at one point suggested approximate wording that would include both the creator's description and the new information and I still think it's not a bad idea, but I see nothing wrong with the current wording, which says "in an indeterminate New Jersey shore town" (yes, this entire dispute is over those seven words somehow). -- Fyrael (talk) 22:06, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by Mosfetfaser

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

I did not try to "do everything I could to boomerang" User:EvergreenFir war report, the admin also noted that both users were warring and he could either block them both or protect the page, he chose to protect the page, my discussion there was to help EFir to see his warring and so to notice his violation also and the hypocrisy of reporting someone for warring when he himself was warring. Read that story here https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=&diff=prev&oldid=615231718#User:ChrisP2K5_reported_by_User:EvergreenFir_.28Result:_Protected.29

The content dispute. I said on the talk page https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Bob%27s_Burgers&diff=615259663&oldid=615254968 I support an inclusive position of both stories as per User:Fryael - We can just say specifically that (in 'add year here') the creator labeled the setting as a "semi Springfield" ambiguous East coast town, but that the show itself has since indicated a possible New Jersey locale. Mosfetfaser (talk) 04:41, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Talk:Bob's Burgers discussion

Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.

I would like to submit that EvergreenFir is incorrect and exaggerating. Like Mosfetfaser said, he/she was not being boomeranged, just being called on for not acknowledging his/her edit warring (I still do not agree with the assessment that this was an edit war in the first place). The sources that he/she and Fyrael submit, while legitimate, do not offer any irrefutable factual data to contradict my source. They are opinions of writers and should be treated as such. It would be as if I found an opinion piece that Cheers is set in New York. Since the creators of the show set it in Boston and that was established by them just like Loren Bouchard has done with Bob's Burgers, I can't present that opinion piece as fact. I can present it as theory and opinion, but not fact. Just like any of the sources they cite because the creator has established a setting. I've told EvergreenFir he/she is wrong because the definitive source contradicts his/her position. The link to EvergreenFir's "compromise" is actually his/her response to one of the two I offered and stated relatively clearly that he/she will not consider my source, the show's creator, and restore the unverifiable opinions. That's when I filed the ANI report because it became clear to me that this was becoming less about my source and more about me personally (my past history isn't relevant to this discussion at all). When I used the term "acquiescing" it was in response to EvergreenFir's declaration of unilateral action. To me, that was demanding I adopt his/her position. I also never said citing the episode was COPYVIO. I said that the episode never mentioned New Jersey (and it didn't) and that attempting to use the screencap as a source was COPYVIO because it was lifted from something that didn't belong to whoever captured it.

The way I see it, I have done more than enough to support my argument with facts and they have not done enough to refute it with facts. Which is why I consider it open and shut. I offered a compromise where the opinions are noted as they are alongside the factual data I have, but no mention of any specific setting. When this was rejected in favor of keeping the opinions as facts, I offered to even write a secondary section with the theories, noting one in particular where the opining writer went to great lengths to make his deductively reasoned opinion that I found interesting. Again, this was rejected in keeping the opinions as facts. I don't know what else to do because EvergreenFir is clearly not acting in good faith and Fyrael and I are too far apart on resolving this issue. I am sorry for EvergreenFir's loss and wish his/her family the best in these trying times, but that's not an excuse for his/her conduct. --ChrisP2K5 (talk) 07:08, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Please no response or further discussion here until a DRN volunteer opens the case. Thank you -- — Keithbob • Talk • 17:51, 4 July 2014 (UTC) (DRN volunteer Coordinator)

Fresh Start: Core of the dispute

This case is now open. I'm letting everyone know in advance I will not tolerate any further discussion or comments about past actions or editor behavior. We are here to discuss content only. First let's establish the core of the dispute: The concern is over the location or setting of the TV show Bob's Burgers which is currently represented as:

• The show centers on the Belcher family, who run a hamburger restaurant on Ocean Avenue in an indeterminate New Jersey[1] shore town, according to series creator Loren Bouchard. [1] cite episode | title=It Snakes A Village | series=Bob's Burgers | network=Fox Broadcasting Company | airdate=March 24, 2013 | season=3 | number=18 | episodelink=It Snakes a Village

Is that correct? -- — Keithbob • Talk • 18:55, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Keithbob - Correct. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 19:15, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Do other parties agree this is the core of the dispute? -- — Keithbob • Talk • 21:05, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

Yes, it is. -- Fyrael (talk) 21:13, 7 July 2014 (UTC)