Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement

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Petrarchan47

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Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Petrarchan47

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Kingofaces43 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 21:10, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Petrarchan47 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Genetically_modified_organisms#Discretionary_Sanctions,

Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Genetically_modified_organisms#Casting aspersions :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. May 2016 KingofAces has made changes to this encyclopedia that should make you shudder
2. Jan 2017 Otherwise the same tiny handful of editors who have controlled the GMO articles here will continue to reign.
3. September 2017 I thought we had a crew who was completely committed to all things Monsanto?, If Wikipedia truly has been taken over, in some areas anyway, by a gang of bullies such that the reader isn't getting a full picture of topics guarded by this group, then the reader should be alerted somehow. Only those readers who already know the latest will recognize that the articles are biased. among others at that talk page.
4. Oct 2017 there is no shortage of folks bending over backwards to defend Monsanto, whilst those still trying to make WP into an encyclopedia are few and far between.
5. Aug 2018 May I ask how you happened to turn up and create a brand new page? What led to that decision? It appears to me that there is off-WP communication.
6. Sept 2018 You appear to be wanting to sanitize the coverage here.

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

1. June 2016 Warned by admin for violating aspersions principle.

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

• Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, see the system log linked to above. [1]

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Petrarchan47 has been around since the original GMO ArbCom with battleground behavior and casting aspersions, etc. with arbs stating Constant aspersions, including veiled accusations of other editors being shills, is not a minor issue and is unacceptable conduct., but the behavior has usually been ignored because they tend to be more of sporadic presence until recently. That's still going on and getting to be a chronic issue now though even though we passed a principle at ArbCom because of exactly this kind of behavior: This especially applies to accusations of being paid by a company to promote a point of view (i.e., a shill) or similar associations and using that to attack or cast doubt over the editor in content disputes. Previous AE are linked within this case for exactly this kind of stuff.

There's also been a trend of going to Jimbo's talk page saying Wikipedia has a Monsanto problem, etc. that's very similar to Monsanto must be pleased comments we dealt with before David Tornheim was topic banned. I already linked one of the aspersions that came post-notification about me wanting to "sanitize" the content, but this comment still gets into the battleground behavior. They tried to claim I was using 14-year old sources in that particular edit (in reality were 2015+), but the accusatory tone continued towards me. It's getting both petty and incoherent at this point that even I've run out of patience to ignore.

The links above show just some of the sporadic but steady stream of aspersions editors have been mostly ignoring over the last few years. The topic has settled down finally, but editors coming in doing this sporadically are the few still stirring things up. Trying to caution Petrarchan about all this seems to result in more Monsanto is controlling Wikipedia or bending over backwards for Monsanto type statements. They seem pretty committed to still being pointy on article talk pages given this history and warning, so while I was hoping the old GMO stuff could die down, it looks like this editor still needs attention from admins. This is what the aspersions principle was meant to prevent. Kingofaces43 (talk) 21:10, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

I'll also reiterate that what Tryptofish says below rings very true about why we needed the aspersions principle. Before that, it got so bad that editors felt like they needed to save diffs as proof of when they made "anti" Monsanto edits. Kingofaces43 (talk) 01:08, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

Admins, with editors starting to come out of the woodwork, this is starting to mirror this AE case where multiple editors had to be sanctioned for supporting veiled aspersions as part of battleground behavior. I won’t try to debunk all the stuff about me below due to space unless asked (nor is this case about me). It really looks like we need a topic ban at a minimum now, especially after Petrarchan's warning. What you're seeing here for direct or veiled aspersions is the kind of stuff ArbCom really wanted tamped down, so this should be a straightforward enforcement of the aspersions principle as has been done previously. Kingofaces43 (talk) 16:26, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

[2]

Discussion concerning Petrarchan47

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Petrarchan47

KingofAces43 seems a conflicted editor who accuses others of what he is doing. He has admitted a COI (his specialty is pest management) on his userpage, and his edits seem to always favor the industry, although he claims he can be a neutral editor. He is engaging in bad faith editing by misusing WP:MEDRS.

In his above complaint, he refers to the wrong edit.

"They tried to claim I was using 14-year old sources in that particular edit (in reality were 2015 or newer), but the accusatory tone continued towards me."

• This is the edit where he uses an old source.
• This is where I confront him about using old sources
• Seraphim System also warned him about the importance of using recent sources.

I've asked if he looked for newer sources, he has never responded, but instead he brings me here. In this edit Kings adds reference to the source SERA 2003. However, this source has been updated to SERA 2011.

If he'd done his due diligence, he'd have found it. By relying on the older source, he minimizes concerns scientists are raising about the “inert” adjuvants and surfactants. But the science has been changing ([3],[4],[5],[6]), and he's not including that in his edits, because he relies on the older sources. MEDRS requires him to refer to updated sources.

• Here is where I first questioned him about this
• Here on September 5, I asked him if he'd checked for updates or newer sources

Sera 2011 *:

Many glyphosate formulations include surfactants, and the toxicity of these surfactants is of equal or greater concern to the risk assessment than is the toxicity of technical grade glyphosate and surfactants appear to be agents of concern

Monsanto/Bayer and Wikipedia articles try to conflate Glyphosate with Roundup. KingofAces43 most recently did that here, misrepresenting the science (see Sera 2011). I confront him here. His misrepresentation follows talking points coming from Bayer, new owner of Roundup.

Wikipedia should not allow this to continue. Bayer is facing over 8K lawsuits worth billions, similar to the one in California. The jury heard ”Monsanto has known for decades that glyphosate and specifically Roundup could cause cancer” Reuters; ”Glyphosate” and ”Roundup” aren't synonymous. Wikipedia must stay fact-based especially regarding contentious issues. petrarchan47คุก 02:43, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

@Drmies, please take a look at my interactions on the talk pages I've recently edited: Glyphosate, Roundup and Glyphosate-based herbicides. I have not caused disturbance. Things were 'calm' before I arrived... because important updates weren't being made*.

Additionally:

• KingofAces43 is a SPA: https://xtools.wmflabs.org/topedits/en.wikipedia.org/Kingofaces43

• Tryptophish casts aspersions when accusing me of SPA. Only one of my top pages involves Monsanto: https://xtools.wmflabs.org/ec/en.wikipedia.org/Petrarchan47

• KingofAces43 misuses "Fringe" to delete information about Roundup cancer case whilst guidelines and consensus support me.

• KoA43 misuses WP:DUE to keep negative information out

• Misusing WP:FRINGE to disallow World Health Organization's IARC response to criticism after calling Glyphosate "probably carcinogenic"

• KoA43 reinserts outdated language to bolster safety claim (addressed here)

Statement by Tryptofish

I'm not sure that the filing statement makes the problem sufficiently clear, but I want admins to know that the problem here is a very serious one.

As I see it, the central issue is this conclusion from ArbCom: Casting aspersions. For admins unfamiliar with the history, the GMO topic area was plagued with aspersions of editors supposedly editing on behalf of Monsanto. (It's fine to say something like For NPOV the page should have more criticism of Monsanto, but it's unacceptable to say You are suppressing information on this page because you are editing on Monsanto's behalf, unless there is solid evidence presented at the proper venues.) And, just since the time of the most recent DS notice on her talk page, here are edits where Petrarchan does exactly that: [7], [8], [9], [10] (see also: [11] and [12], never answered). That's just recent stuff; she has long advocated that editors are editing on behalf of the company: "Monsanto mafia". She also considers the community consensus at WP:GMORFC to be invalid: [13]. (At that RfC, she submitted a WP:POINTy un-serious proposal: [14], [15].)

The other thing I want admins to know is that Petrarchan is essentially a single-purpose account, whose purpose is to crusade against what she sees as editors conspiring to suppress The Truth. If you look at her talk page, she considers herself retired from editing content, and if you look at her contributions, you will see that all she does is show up from time to time to cast these kinds of aspersions. Except for her, the GMO topic area has been blessedly quiet for over a year, but she is disrupting it. You need to understand that she is not going to change her mind about any of this. Give progressively increasing blocks, and she'll just come back after each one with the same agenda. At a minimum, you need to topic ban her from GMOs. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:54, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

And in case anyone is wondering about me: [16]. --Tryptofish (talk) 00:58, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

Now that Petrarchan has responded here, it seems to me that her response substantiates what I said above about how she is not going to change her mind. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:47, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

After some additional editors have commented here (some of whom should have known better), I will clarify some of my previous comments.

• I did not say that Petrarchan is a single-purpose account with respect to GMOs. I said that she is one with respect to crusading "against what she sees as editors conspiring to suppress The Truth."
• If anyone thinks that I was baiting her (good grief!), they should look at the indenting in the thread from which I provided diffs. Her comments ("Your suggestion...") were directed at me.
• We are not here to relitigate the ArbCom GMO case, and there is nothing unclear about the decision about aspersions. To say that users one is disagreeing with in a particular discussion are editing on behalf of Monsanto, but without saying which editors by username, and then wikilawyering that it cannot be an aspersion because it supposedly wasn't directed at anyone in particular, is utterly dishonest. If there is a case for including negative content about Monsanto, make the case on grounds of content, not on grounds of editor motivations or the supposed inadequacy of the community. Describing me, or anyone else, (added: or whomever he was referring to) as being members of "self-interests groups" (Veritycheck) or as "[e]diting with the goal of protecting Monsanto" (said by Petrarchan and questioned by MPS1992) should either be backed up with Checkuser evidence or should be grounds for sanctions. And wikilawyering over maybe it was OK because Petrarchan was right on POV grounds (essentially what Atsme and Seraphim System are arguing) is wrong, because being "right" (WP:RGW) is never an excuse for misconduct (and also the community settled the major POV-related content issue at WP:GMORFC).

--Tryptofish (talk) 18:13, 15 September 2018 (UTC) Added. --Tryptofish (talk) 18:58, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Just now: [17], calling other editors "WP:NOTHERE". --Tryptofish (talk) 19:12, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

With a bit of disappointment that this AE thread is starting to look more like an ANI free-for-all, I'll respond to a few new comments where I think it appropriate for me to respond.

• Veritycheck: There is no reason for it to have been necessary for Petrarchan to have cast an aspersion directed at KingofAces personally for an aspersion to be relevant here – but I will note that the diff I showed just above shows her singling out an edit he made and then suggesting that editors familiarize themselves with WP:NOTHERE. (Atsme, that applies to what you said too.) And if you think that "Editing with the goal of protecting Monsanto" is materially different than saying that there was pay, well, you are wrong. And if you think I misunderstood what you said, you could simply have clarified it.
• Atsme: I'm not going to defend KingofAces here; I'll let him speak for himself. But nothing he has done excuses the evidence that I have provided, because two wrongs do not make a right, and nothing he did comes close to rising to the level of what Petrarchan has been doing. And you misremember the ArbCom GMO case in which you and Petrarchan were both named parties: Arbs did find misconduct that came close to a topic ban then, but a divided Committee did not have enough votes for that to pass: [18], [19]; this was similar to other parties who were later topic banned at AE.
• Seraphim System: Thank you for what you said to me. Please keep in mind that [20] and [21] are referring to you, saying that you started the new page in order to cover-up information about RoundUp. That goes beyond good-faith heated discussion, and Petrarchan clearly is not retracting anything, but rather doubling down.

--Tryptofish (talk) 19:22, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

Statement by JzG

It seems clear to me that the project would be better off if Petrarchan were separated from this area, where xhe has very strong opinions that constantly run up against NPOV and RS. Guy (Help!)

Statement by Veritycheck

From an uninvolved editor who follows this page and does not know any of the editors. Not one DIFF presented here singles out any editor on the receiving end of aspersions.Tryptofish does offer two DIFFS [22] and [23] which try to bait Petrarchan47 to make aspersions by attempting to put words into his/her mouth. This attempt on Tryptofish's part certainly doesn't make a case. On the contrary, what is far more telling is that they both go 'unanswered' showing that Petrarchan47 does not engage in aspersions.

What is expressed in these DIFFS is that there may be self-interests groups at work, as is true throughout Wikipedia. Let’s not be naïve. WP:GOODFAITH faith is a philosophy not a guarantee. But bringing this back to the accusation, how about providing something more concrete if you have it. Otherwise, not only is it smoke and mirrors, but also a rather sad attempt to squelch what appears to be an important contributor who brings NPOV to the article. Veritycheck✔️ (talk) 00:24, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

NOTE @Tryptofish Here is the (deleted) response to your comment above concerning me. You said, "Describing me or anyone else as being members of "self-interests groups" (Veritycheck)"...

You're putting words in my mouth. What part of my statement above names you, or any other editor for that matter, a member of a "self-interest group"? It's a false allegation. There are already too many of those floating about. Veritycheck✔️ (talk) 18:54, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

• The judgement whether to enforce sanctions is based on the DIFFS presented that either confirm or refute infractions. Allusions to “a lot of history” only muddies the waters. Veritycheck✔️ (talk) 16:27, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

• Casting aspersions says, "An editor must not accuse another of misbehavior without evidence, especially when the accusations are repeated or severe. This especially applies to accusations of being paid by a company to promote a point of view (i.e., a shill) or similar associations"

In which DIFF does Petrarchan47 accuse Kingofaces43 of working for, or having an association with Monsanto? In none. Petrarchan47's statement, "Editing with the goal of protecting Monsanto", suggests a stance. Having an association or being paid by Monsanto is clearly not indicated . Veritycheck✔️ (talk) 17:28, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

• CANVASSING Admin shopping. Kingofaces43 requests, "I’d be glad if you want to review the case to get more admins involved". Veritycheck✔️ (talk) 19:05, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

Statement by MPS1992

As another uninvolved editor, I would like to know if the statement "Editing with the goal of protecting Monsanto is antithetical to building a NPOV encyclopedia and in a sane world, should be grounds for a topic ban" -- part of a diff provided above which is being used as evidence for a topic ban now -- is something I would not be allowed to say on Wikipedia. And if so, why. MPS1992 (talk) 00:46, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Atsme

I don't edit in this topic area but I am familiar with some of the history. The diffs presented against Petrarchan47 are innocuous, and certainly nothing deserving of a t-ban. Petrar is not a SPA and has made significant contributions to controversial articles in the past without incident, including BP, Corexit, and Deepwater Horizon oil spill to name a few. I do hope that the points she brought up in her statement are carefully reviewed because her editing contributions over the years are evidence that she adheres strictly to NPOV and closely follows RS guidelines. The accusations against her are meritless, and if anything, a boomerang may be in order. ^{Atsme📞📧} 02:33, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

• In the clarification of aspersions, it would prove helpful if the committee would expand and clarify aspersions in general by adding “An editor must not accuse another of misbehavior without evidence that clearly supports the allegation ....and in cases where the diffs do not support the allegations, a boomerang will be implemented or something more formal along those lines. Clarification will help reduce the complaints that are filed against editors simply because their POV doesn’t align with that of the filer, which tends to happen when the filer lacks a valid argument to support their position during consensus discussions, especially in highly controversial articles that have DS 1RR/consensus required restrictions. It would not surprise me if the thought process in such cases is something along the line of Why argue and lose consensus when it’s easier to file a case at AE, create the illusion of disruption with aspersions and innocuous diffs, and just get rid of the opposition? Clarification will also help put an end to editors presenting multiple innocuous diffs prepended by aspersions when there is no smoking gun that unambiguously proves disruption or misbehavior. Such complaints are gaming the system, plain and simple, and such actions justify a boomerang. ^{Atsme📞📧} 15:56, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

• To arbs & admins alike - in response to this recently added/modified comment, specifically the aspersions directed at Petrar including "...but has usually been ignored because they tend to be more of sporadic presence until recently" - usually been ignored? ^{KoA modified his statement since I posted this so see my modified statement below dated today. 18:57, 16 September 2018 (UTC)} How much more disrespectful can one be to a productive editor who has given freely of her time to help build this encyclopedia, and who has done commendable work over the years? Unfortunately, the insults didn't stop there - the filer then disparaged other editors who happen to disagree that any of the evidence presented in this case is worthy of a t-ban, referring to us as "editors starting to come out of the woodwork". There is no ambiguity about what that comment implies when stated by an entomologist. Based on the manner in which this case was presented and the most recent disparaging comments, it appears the filer is the one with the behavioral issues, and appears to harbor ill-will toward and a sense of superiority over Petrar and anyone else who disagrees with a certain POV. Such behavior is unacceptable, and since misconduct is the crux of why we're here, it deserves serious consideration. One last observation regarding this diff which was included above - it demonstrates Petrar's use of RS in an effort to support the inclusion/exclusion/clarity of information. How is that misbehavior or incivility? If it is, we all may as well call it quits. The correct approach to inclusion/exclusion of material is to call an RfC and let consensus decide instead of filing vexatious litigation at AE. ^{Atsme📞📧} 22:07, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

• Note to admins - I think the following requires the attention of the admins taking this case, and I'll begin with this diff, which is difficult to dismiss as anything but obliquely canvassing others or admin shopping while this case is open. Kudos to the admin for publicly noting that his comments are one-sided. What should raise concern is the fact that the filer alleged that others are showing up here casting aspersions, yet the diffs he provided do not support his claims. I do hope our trusted admins will address this situation promptly. KoA's repeated allegations of aspersions inadvertently serve as further support for my suggestion regarding the boomerang when clarifying how aspersions are to be treated. I will also note that the filer modified his statement above about Petrar being ignored and changed it to her behavior being ignored, which I find equally as derogatory since he keeps bringing up the 2015 GMO case wherein Petrarchan's name is mentioned a total of 8 times, and no mention at all in the Findings of Fact, or DS. From what I can tell, there was no action taken against her at all. ^{Atsme✍🏻📧} 18:30, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Dialectric

I left the GMO sanctions alert notice for Petrarchan47 on August 17, 2018. All but the most recent 2 diffs submitted by Kingofaces43 predate this warning.

In answering this request, a Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment may be in order. I suggest arbcom clarify what falls into the category of actionable aspersions. The specific language in the GMO case principles is singular, and targeted - “An editor must not accuse another of misbehavior without evidence” etc. Some difs presented by Kingofaces43 are general and do not call out any specific editors - statements like “there is no shortage of folks bending over backwards to defend Monsanto”. Dialectric (talk) 03:53, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Seraphim System

Some brief comments - my understanding of WP:ASPERSIONS is that it means to make repeated accusations of misconduct without presenting evidence. I don't think all of these diffs would be considered aspersions. Without getting into too much detail. there is evidence and diffs supporting at least some of what Petrachan47 has said here. The complaining editor does not exactly have clean hands here. Seraphim System ^(talk) 08:45, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

I agree with other editors here, this comment Admins, with editors starting to come out of the woodwork, this is starting to mirror this AE case where multiple editors had to be sanctioned for supporting veiled aspersions as part of battleground behavior. is troubling. As one of the editors starting to come out of the woodwork, I think it's absurd to suggest we are supporting veiled aspersions. This comment [24] was directed at me and I'm not defending Petra's actions but what I see going on between KoA and Petra is part of an ongoing content dispute on the article, and KoA's hands are far from clean. I'm also more concerned that KoA has several times represented his preferred version as consensus as happened here [25]- that to me is an indication of more serious misconduct, especially since it happens again here while this complaint is open and the discussion on the talk page is ongoing [26] - I don't see Petra's behavior on the article as currently rising to the level that requires a topic ban - I think there is a possibility of that in the future, but this complaint is premature. I say this even though I was on the receiving end of some of Petra's comments that are cited in this complaint. Seraphim System ^(talk) 01:00, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

@Tryptofish: I don't support topic banning a good faith editor for getting heated during a particularly difficult and controversial discussion, but if Petra still does not understand which of his comments were a problem, then perhaps I will change my mind about supporting a sanction. For example, I don't think there is evidence to support the comment he made against you here [27] and I think he should retract it. My goal with the article has been to keep it neutral, without it tilting too far in one direction or the other, and in my opinion, a review of the article's history will show that your own editing has been neutral and geared towards building a consensus. If Petra continues to lash out at editors who are in good faith trying to engage him in the consensus process, then I think we are just going to end up back here sooner or later anyway, so some indication that he understands this would go a long way.Seraphim System ^(talk) 17:37, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Minor4th

I have not looked at these Monsanto articles in a long time, until today when I was trying to find info on the recent jury verdict and damages award against Monsanto. What struck me right off the bat was KingofAces' ownership-like behavior in these articles and his engaging in what looks like edit warring to me. I do not think the diffs provided amount to casting aspersions in the least. The diffs reflect more poorly on KoA in my opinion. Not to cast aspersions, but I wonder if KoA might be, consciously or unconsciously, using the Arb sanctions to bully away from the Monsanto and pesticide articles those editors who do not share KoA's pro-Monsanto editing behavior. Minor4th 21:27, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Statement be Aircorn

I have been an involved editor in the GMO topic area for quite a few years. My point of view very much aligns with Tryptofish when it come to the science around safety and other aspects in this area. I have clashed with Petrachen in the past, particularly over the WP:GMORFC. The current dispute essentially stems from the Round-up/Glyphosate articles and while I am only tangentially interested in them, the discussions and participants are similar to what was occurring at the GMO pages when it was at its most intense. It has thankfully settled down now and as a result the articles are getting much needed improvements.

There is a lot of history here that may be lost on some new editors just looking at the individual diffs presented. Edits that are viewed to favour GMOs have long been labeled as pro Monsanto and those that don't part of an anti GM agenda. I have apparently been working for Monsanto since 2010, although I am also an anti GM activist. The accusations got so persistent and nasty that the inevitable ARB case made a point about casting aspersions. It should have been clear to anyone involved in it that this was not to be tolerated anymore.

Some stray thoughts

• These discussions have a tendency to be side tracked by going after the filer. I am not always a fan of KOA's editing style, but he has not to my knowledge insinuated that editors opposed to his POV are part of an activist group or something similar. There was a period were he conflated them with climate change deniers, but I have not seen that happen recently. If editors want to bring an AE case against him they should, but I feel this one should concentrate on whether Petrachan has violated the casting aspersion principle or not.
• Making edits that are pro Monsanto and pro science is not mutually exclusive.
• Saying that you are not casting aspirations does not mean you can then cast one.
• Saying someone is a SPA is not casting an aspiration as our contribution history is available for everyone to see. Personally I would not label either Petrachen or KOA as SPAs, but I can see why someone might.
• Coming out of the woodwork is a common phrase.
• There is no need to clarify anything about having a boomerang against the filer for unsubstantiated complaints as this already occurs[28].
• Making general claims about editors motivations, especially given the history at these pages, is not much different than specifying which editor the claim is targeted at
• I don't believe Petrachan was baited at Jimbos Talk page. Given the context and history, saying Editing with the goal of protecting Monsanto is antithetical to building a NPOV encyclopedia and in a sane world, should be grounds for a topic ban. can easily be read as casting an aspersion on an editor and clarifying that statement can only be to their benefit. AIRcorn (talk) 16:14, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

Result concerning Petrarchan47

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• I find Tryptofish's comment and diffs, and their argument for a GMO topic ban, convincing. Drmies (talk) 03:30, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
• I don't. The reported diffs are confrontative, but they are mostly about content, not other users. Because no admin has taken action so far, and the thread is being used for what look like pointless recriminations, which I do not intend to read, I'm closing the thread now. @Drmies: This does not prevent you from taking action if, unlike me, you believe it is warranted. Sandstein 19:47, 16 September 2018 (UTC)