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May 23

Who is KANZO?

I have a series of photos I took of a large Japanese jar; see Image:Imari_Jar_DES.jpg. I'd like to upload the series to Wikimedia Commons, but I'm lost for real information on the artist, listed in the display as KANZO. The image page has pretty much all the information the card on the display (cropped out of the picture) had. Is there enough information here to figure out who made this jar and when they died? Or that the jar itself is old enough that the maker surely died before 1908 or 1938?--Prosfilaes (talk) 00:11, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Could it be that 'kanzo' isn't the artists name? Fribbler (talk) 11:36, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Possibly; [1] has almost the exact text displayed in the library, and it's properly cased for a name there, but it could have been mistranslated somewhere along the way. On the other hand, Kanzo is a Japanese name and it isn't impossible that it really is a name. Either way, the jar isn't old enough to claim a PD-Old on that basis alone.--Prosfilaes (talk) 23:04, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

The three jewels

What is the significance of going for refuge in the Buddha the Dharma and the Sangha in buddhism? According to my understanding taking refuge in the buddha means expressing gratitude for his teaching, taking refuge in the dharma means practicing the buddha's teachings and taking refuge in the Sangha is important as this is how the dharma is spread and passed on. I have already read the article on the three jewels but it's not really what I'm looking for. If anyone could give some reasons why else the refuges are important to buddhists that would be great. Richie1001 (talk) 10:34, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

I suppose you have also read the articles on Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha? I'm not quite sure what you're asking as the three refuges are the three ideals of Buddhism, so they are a prerequisite, and "Buddhism" wouldn't exist without them. You might even say that the Three Jewels are Buddhism. Going for Refuge is the primary act of commitment for all Buddhists. Taking refuge in the Buddha is rather more than expressing gratitude; it means taking that ideal as one to which you aspire, in order to become an ideal human being, embodying the perfection of wisdom and commpassion. As well as practising the teachings, taking refuge in the Dharma means studying and deepening one's understanding not only of the Buddha's teachings but of your own experience and the Four Noble Truths. As for the sangha, in the context of the Three Jewels, this means the Aryasangha: the company of Buddhas and Bodhisattvas (both historical and "archetypal") and the teachers in their lineage, rather than simply one's fellow Buddhists.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 11:10, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply - your information on the buddha was especially helpful. Perhaps I haven't explained myself properly - what i meant to ask was simply why do buddhists take refuge in the buddha the dharma and the sangha? How does it help them? Regards,Richie1001 (talk) 12:55, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Because it engenders commitment and direction. Although we like to think of ourselves as rational beings, ultimately we all go where our emotions and instincts lead us. Buddhists try to refine and direct those emotions and instincts through "Going for Refuge" to the Three Jewels. "Refuge" is a literal translation of "sarana" but IMO it's not a very good metaphor as it can suggest not facing up to reality, whereas facing up to reality is precisely what Buddhism claims to do, whereas our emotions and instincts often make us want to hide from reality.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 16:29, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Arab league

Is this the first that the Arab League ever got a shia muslim as a speaker of Arab Parliament? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.30.202.29 (talk) 14:59, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

As of a couple of weeks ago, the Arab parliament had only ever had one speaker, namely Muhammed Jasim Al-Saqr, and I can find nothing to indicate this has changed since. I don't know his religion, but whatever it is, he's the first. Algebraist 15:15, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

U.S. and Michigan child custody laws

Greetings. Might you be so kind as to provide me with links to useful legal resources in the United States, specifically Michigan? I was wondering about the rights of a child near age of majority who wishes to change her custody arrangements. I understand your disclaimer regarding legal advice but hope you'll still be able to help me.

Thank you, Kalai Eljahn (talk) 15:04, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Michigan Courts site on child custody. Michigan legislature: Child Custody Act of 1970. Legal aid groups in Michigan (cos you really need legal advice). WikiJedits (talk) 15:20, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

A starter for 10...http://www.michbar.org/generalinfo/libraries/selfhelp.cfm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.221.133.226 (talk) 15:20, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

fostering

Does Wikipedia have an article on fostering, as in the historical arrangements of sending your children to be raised in a relative's or other family? Every search I try is taking me back to foster care, an article that is solely about a present-day system for children in state care. Thank you for any pointers! WikiJedits (talk) 15:14, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

This is a guess: Fosterage. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 15:21, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you Zain, that is the idea I meant. That article really needs work, though! I will start by making disambig links to each (foster care and fosterage) from the other. I've had trouble figuring out a brief disambiguation wording; if anyone would like to improve it please do. WikiJedits (talk) 18:47, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Identity documents in the United States

"The de facto official identification card for adults in all states is the driver's license"

What if a U.S. citizen doesn't have a driver's license how can he/she prove his/her age? 18 years-old girl want to do porn, what does she show as a proof of age? 21 years-old person want to buy a beer, what does he show as a proof of age? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.166.221.213 (talk) 16:08, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

A passport would do. You already have found the article that explains identity documents in the United States; presumably, any one of them would do if the bartender accepts them as proof of your identity. In other words, if it looks real and official, has your date of birth and your photograph, and especially if it's a type of a document the bartender is familiar with -- say, a student ID from the local college -- it'll probably do the trick. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 16:26, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Does every U.S. citizen have a passport? What about porn? (section 2257) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.166.221.213 (talk) 18:19, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

No, only about 20% of U.S. citizens have passports -- as explained in the very article you link to in the beginning of your post here. You should go and read it before you ask any more questions about this, because it explains how this works pretty well.

As for porn, it's not unreasonable to tell a young wannabe porn actor or actress that if they want to do this job, they need to have valid ID before it'll happen. I doubt many legitimate producers are going to want to take any chances with that stuff, since nobody wants to become a child pornographer by accident. Traci Lords taught that industry a pretty hard lesson. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 20:11, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

If you don't have a driver's license, you might have a state-issued identity card instead. --Carnildo (talk) 20:02, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Indeed, if you need an ID, you can go to your local Department of Motor Vehicles office and ask for a state ID card instead of a driver's license. There will be a small fee. It will be a state verified piece of identification though which will show your birth date. Dismas|^(talk) 20:05, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

If you don't have a state-issued photo ID, you can't board a plane. Corvus cornix_talk 20:11, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

There are lots of people who don't have driver's licenses—especially those who live in big cities that don't require driving (I know a lot of people born and raised in New York who don't know how to drive). Needless to say there are many other avenues for them to get official identification (for all sorts of things other than porn, usually). --98.217.8.46 (talk) 21:24, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Trying to find a Greek sculpture

Yo I have this greek sculpture on my mind but can't think of the name or the sculptor. I think it's a 4th century or Hellenistic work. It depicts a male athelete, nude, and a woman, clothed (barely, clinging drapery), leaning on the guy's shoulder and chillaxin. 76.106.103.106 (talk) 17:54, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Maybe Orestes and Electra in Naples, [2]? DAVID ŠENEK 18:06, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

That's it. Thank you! 76.106.103.106 (talk) 18:07, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

"Chillaxin"? ៛ Bielle (talk) 21:21, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Chillaxin = destressing with the aid of a finely honed cryogenic scalpel as used by yuppie lumber jacks in the suburban back yards of Ontario. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 21:51, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

From wiktionary: Blend of chill out and relax (see here for the purported coiner). Zain Ebrahim (talk) 21:57, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

and -in' (ing) – coolio? Julia Rossi (talk) 09:25, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks to the neoligic whizzes here. It seems a tautology as you can't "chill out" unless you are "relaxed", and you can't "relax" unless you are "chilled out". And, ZooM, as always, I want a hit of whatever you are smoking. :-) ៛ Bielle (talk) 14:52, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Category for "Monotony"

I was thinking of starting a stub on the common meaning of "monontony" as "repetitive and tedious". But I don't really know what category that would fall under. It's not a feeling like boredom. Would it be a psychological concept? Is there a higher level concept that I haven't found? I think having this is a page that might come in handy for links. Thanks for any help. 71.236.23.111 (talk) 18:26, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, I think it works within psychological and physical labour frameworks. A monotonous job is not simply boring, but requires the repetition of some menial task(s). Maybe something from manual labour could get worked in, though the concepts are not necessarily related per se - a monotonous job could just as easily be non-physical. Before starting the article, try to have something in there that goes beyond a dictionary definition, or the article will be deleted per WP:DICDEF. Matt Deres (talk) 18:50, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Keep in mind that simple dictionary definitions are not allowed on Wikipedia. They are for Wiktionary, if anywhere. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 21:26, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

I wasn't thinking of just putting in a definition. I already have at least one OSHA quote and I bet they're not the only ones that wrote about it. I had just hoped that there was something like "Freud" or an existing psychological definition. There should be something in that kind of literature that links definitions for boredom and monotony. I guess I'll just start it off and see if s.o. finds some more bones. --71.236.23.111 (talk) 23:35, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

What poem am I thinking of?

I seem to remember a poem that contains the line: CONSULT YOUR PHYSICIAN, YOUR PHYSICIAN DESERVES A LAUGH

I thought it was Ogden Nash, but I can't find the lines in any of my Nash books. Let me know if you come up with the title/author.

YES!! I just found it...the poem is called, "MS Found in A Quagmire" whew.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Franelizabeth18 (talk• contribs) 21:40, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

ok, found it....poem is titled "MS Found in A Quagmire". whew, i feel better! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.173.121.178 (talk) 22:10, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Do you have the link? Julia Rossi (talk) 09:23, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

No link to the poem, but here is its ref: Ogden Nash, Poetry, "Ms. found in a quagmire," The New Yorker, October 31, 1942, p. 65, and here is a link to how it may be obtained. SaundersW (talk) 09:39, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Saunders, Julia Rossi (talk) 09:52, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

May 24

knowledge of candidates

It seems that the trend is to leave absolutely no rock unturned when it comes to a piece of knowledge about a political candidate with some very good consequences for the voters such as Cindy McCain releasing her taxes. Is there any way I can find how rampant grade inflation is at the colleges and universities attended by Barack Obama since Harvard is one university that has a long history of notoriety for grade inflation and giving the world by any standard graduates who consider themselves to be elite? 71.100.10.54 (talk) 04:01, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Stuart Rojstaczer's analysis at gradeinflation.com doesn't suggest anything unusual about Harvard's grade inflation in nationwide comparison. According to the scatterplot, the change in GPA at Harvard is close to, but even a bit below the average of 0.146 per decade. And Columbia is in the group of American universities with the lowest grade inflation. ---Sluzzelin talk 05:57, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Now what about grade inflation for the classes? 71.100.10.54 (talk) 12:01, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Who cares? Whether or not Harvard has grade inflation does not indicate whether or not Barack Obama was helped by it or didn't deserve whatever grades he got. Your approach is logically flawed and shows some ignorance of how grade inflation works: just because someone gets an A- at a school with grade inflation does not mean they necessarily got it because of grade inflation. There's no way, barring talking to individual teachers, for you to know anything about that from looking at a transcript. That's the problem with grade inflation, incidentally: you can't distinguish, from a transcript, between genuinely great students and pretty good students. Bad students are usually still pretty easy to spot, based on their class position and because they're still going to get B+s. (I say this as someone who has done a lot of grading at Harvard, and really hates the grade inflation there. In my experience at Harvard all grade inflation really does is increase the number of A-s and B+s, and makes the lowest grades hover around B-. It does not increase the number of As on the whole, those are still reserved for a small percentage.) Additionally, Obama was at Harvard Law School, not Harvard College, where things like grading are totally different (it is a different institution, from the point of view of grading and administration—all of the difference Harvard institutions, like the College, the Law School, the Graduate School, the Medical School, and the School of Government, are pretty autonomous and have their own policies, grading structures, course requirements, etc.; Harvard University is a bunch of different institutions with the same name). When people say Harvard has grade inflation, they usually mean the College. Keep that in mind if you do decide to pursue this fairly silly investigation! --Captain Ref Desk (talk) 17:49, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

LOL... First it's not my approach but the approach of the vast majority of employment offices, which BTW some are so easy to fool that even the Pretender would be amazed, although most employers do care. Same for professors, whether at Harvard or not, especially in the humanities. Second, you make a good point about various divisions at Harvard being autonomous which is one of the reasons you do have to scrutinize. Amazingly computer science at Harvard is probably still at the top, in addition to law. Unfortunately even at Harvard no one has yet brought the two together by publishing the law in the form of a truth or decision table or polychotomous key. For this reason Harvard and many elite law schools are in danger of dropping to the bottom of the list just as the US is in danger of getting caught with it's pants down for not doing the same. It is surely something Barack Obama has failed to do while in the US Senate and will continue to fail to do whether elected or not. So much for Barack Obama's attendance at Harvard Law School. Perhaps grade inflation is reserved only for those who remain fast asleep. The problem in reference to my question, however, may be how what are called "sympathy" students are graded, i.e., students who have freckles for instance. Third, what is in fact silly is how some people are simply incapable of being serious for any length of time and when life gets over their heads they simply shut down, giggle and feel silly. To such persons everything that requires concentration for more than 2 seconds is silly, but I suppose you will think this analysis silly as well. 71.100.169.132 (talk) 03:10, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

No, willfully ignorant is the term I'd use. You clearly don't understand the methodological problem (which would apply if it was Obama, Clinton, McCain, even Bush—you can't infer application of grade inflation in a specific case from the fact that it exists in a general case; all it means is that grades are an unreliable metric of achievement, not that they indicate a lack of achievement), and don't care, most likely because you are determined to be intellectually dishonest from the get-go. But anyway, good luck with your work! --Captain Ref Desk (talk) 15:00, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

"Where there is smoke there is fire," is not a saying I manufactured and Obama is spewing more smoke than a pine forest after a burst of lightning. Just like neighborhood kids who break the law and risk injury by playing in the street only for the thrill, instead of promoting perfection of the law; which I would expect from a graduate of Columbia and Harvard, we get promises to acquiesce on almost every controversy in stalemate. Its definitely not the position of someone who did not fall asleep and who paid attention in classes. Where there is smoke there is fire, but from your point of view I imagine that is just silly, silly, silly. 71.100.169.132 (talk) 17:31, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

For someone who goes to great pains to try sound logical, your lack of critical reasoning is rather obvious. Anyway, it is clear that interacting with you, much less helping you, is pointless. --Captain Ref Desk (talk) 20:41, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Its not very logical that I would try to be illogical unless it was for the purpose of Reductio ad absurdum, but then I have no particular desire to interact with you and from past experience I know it is not your intent to help others but rather only yourself. 71.100.169.132 (talk) 17:31, 25 May 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.100.8.192 (talk)

You r question seems to focus on whether Obama's academic credentials are valid. The reference desk is more for answering factual questions, and yours has been answered- grade inflation at Harvard isn't a good reason to doubt any specific person's academic credentials. Because your primary motivation is to know more and to judge Obama correctly, you are now happy to have learned that you were mistaken in your impression that his qualifications were lacking. Your correct response is, "Thank you, Reference Desk!" On behalf of the Reference Desk, I answer your further comments with, "You're welcome, Knowledge Seeker!" -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 15:53, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Pinching and Dreams

Sitting on my computer at midnight, I think of a lot of stupid things, this time, I wondered, since when have people thought of pinching one's arm to discover whether they are dreaming? As in, how long does this tradition date back? I'd like to read a good article that discusses these superstitions and how long they have been practiced, I am asking specifically about the pinching one, but I'm generally interested and this has gotten me thinking about superstitions and how long ago they came to existence. Does anybody know of anything (accessible online) that discusses this? Oh, and if nobody can make heads or tails of my comment, I'll try to repeat it tomorrow... The Dominator^Talk_Edits 05:43, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately I didn't find anything on the origins of the "Pinch me, I am dreaming" cliché. I don't think this is a superstition though, it just symbolizes a crude reality testing technique. The article on lucid dream might interest you. ---Sluzzelin talk 06:26, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Interesting article, doesn't answer my question, but pretty cool, answered a lot of questions I had before, like the sleep paralysis thing. If you were to guess, how far back would you say the dream- reality check techniques go? Like, do you think people made these connections in Ancient to Medieval times, or is it more of a recent thing (i.e. after some scientific study on dreams was done)? The Dominator^Talk_Edits 06:37, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

An interesting book on this subject is 'Dreams and History: The Interpretation of Dreams from Ancient Greece to Modern Psychoanalysis' (edited by Daniel Pick and Lyndal Roper). Dreams fascinated the ancients as much as they fascinate us today; you mention the Medieval period - have you heard of Piers Plowman? The universal quality of dreams means that it was a heavily written about subject in both science and poetry long before the appearance of the Romantic poets and, later, Freud. Yours, Lord Foppington (talk) 12:21, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Who are these chicks?

Kennedy, Gorbi, and their ladies

Who are these three chicks with the two dudes? The one in the center, from what I remember of her, looks like Mrs. Gorbachov. I'm venturing a guess that the one on the left is Kennedy's current wife, Vicky Reggie. Though I have no idea who the surprised (appalled?) chick on the right is. Dismas|^(talk) 14:33, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

The one in the middle is, as you say, Raisa Gorbachyova. I'm working on the others. PeterSymonds (talk) 14:48, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

My guess is that the woman standing next to Kennedy is his sister Eunice Kennedy Shriver and the woman in yellow is his sister Patricia Kennedy Lawford. ---Sluzzelin talk 15:37, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Seconded. --Milkbreath (talk) 15:45, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, all! Dismas|^(talk) 16:48, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

That picture must date from the early 1990s? For a woman in her seventies, Eunice Kennedy was looking very well! Xn4 13:44, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Identify font?

[3], [4], [5], [6]: anyone know it? Thanks! —TreasuryTag—t—c 16:44, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Optima. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 17:19, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Great! Thanks. —TreasuryTag—t—c 17:21, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

art style

What's the name of that Soviet-style art where people are all very blocky looking, from posters? Not Socialist Realism as I understand it. Somewhat Cubist but not abstract. More like this or this (sorry that one downloads automatically) this (which is not actually Soviet), or this WPA poster or this one? --98.217.8.46 (talk) 18:18, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

In the absence of a qualified graphic design historian I'll have a stab at being helpful! Constructivism (art) was that great early Soviet art movement that had significant influence world wide and in the later USSR, even after falling from official favour. I think in your examples and Soviet posters generally we also see the influence of various art movements such as Cubism, Futurism, Surrealism, functionalism and so on. If I had to name the style though, I'd say Art Deco; the all embracing style between the wars that incorporated all sorts of influences to create a machine age aesthetic that tended towards geometric forms. Poster art in particular also tended towards the simple and direct as that suited the medium, the message and printed format. These sites on Art Deco [7] and Soviet [8] poster design have a good little overview. Mhicaoidh (talk) 00:09, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Rumour painted full of tongues

Hi Wikipedia person.

I came across the phrase, Rumour painted full of tongues, in a novel, my interest was piqued and this phrase caused me to enquire further .

Wikipedia informed me that it came from Shakespeare's Henry 4th part 2, the introduction.

Then I went to the Greek/Roman myth area and found Rumour, a figure - robe - painted with tongues holding or blowing a pipe.

Virgil speaks of tongues in the Aeniad.(rumour) Ovid's House of fame mentions FAMA ( rumour)

I wonder if there is any more specific reference to this ROBE, what it was, style, colour and if there is any pictorial imagery existing.

Many Thanks

allegorical ken —Preceding unsigned comment added by Allegorical ken (talk • contribs) 19:06, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Rumour was a common figure in Jacobean masques; cf. Campion's Masque of Squires, 1613, with its Rumour 'in a skin coat full of winged tongues, and over it an antic robe; on his head a cap like a tongue, with a large pair of wings in it'. Halliday, F. E. (1952). "Rumour." A Shakespeare companion 1550-1950. p. 561. OCLC 26369297

Rumour painted full of tongues gives us a Prologue to one of the parts of Henry the fourth; and, says Dr. Dodd, Shakespeare had doubtless a view to either Virgil or Ovid in their description of Fame. But why so? Stephen Hawes, in his Pastime of Pleasure, had long before exhibited her in the same manner,

A goodly Lady envyroned about With tongues of fyre; --

and so had Sir Thomas More in one of his Pageants,

Fame I am called, mervayle you nothing Though with tonges I am compassed all rounde;

not to mention her elaborate Portrait by Chaucer, in the Boke of Fame; and by John Higgins, one of the Assistants in the Mirour for Magistrates, in his Legend of King Albanacte. Farmer, Richard. " An Essay on the Learning of Shakespeare: Addressed to Joseph Cradock, Esq.1767"

—eric 23:47, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Plato and Buddhism

I've read a few studies into the similarities between Plato's ideas and Buddhism. Was there a contact between ancient Greece and the Far East at the time of Plato? Is it possible that Plato was aware of the existence of Buddhism? Aecis^Brievenbus 21:13, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Buddha lived and taught before 400 BC, some years before Plato's birth in about 428 BC. Alexander's famous conquest of Persia and India took place 333-326 BC, a generation after Plato's death in 348 BC. And I believe it wasn't really until Asoka's reign (273 BC to 232 BC) that Buddhism became widely spread/known. However, Buddha drew on thoughts that could also be found in other teachings in his time, and you can be sure there were contacts between India and Greece long before Alexander. There's some discussion of this in Silk Road, see also Royal Road. I can't answer your second question, hopefully someone else will. WikiJedits (talk) 00:55, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

author

who wrote "Naked in the Islands"? I had thought that it was David Sedaris?71.196.82.214 (talk) 21:43, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

He did write Naked (book),a collection of essays including "Naked". Is that what you are looking for? There are a couple of books called "The Naked Island" by Bryna Wasserman and Russell Braddon but I cant find any "Naked in the Islands". Mhicaoidh (talk) 22:39, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

May 25

Maronite Christians

Is Lebanon the Arab nation that has Maronite population? and are French and English names the ones that Arab Christians in Bilad al-Sham keep because of their former colonizers? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Don Mustafa (talk • contribs) 02:00, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

See our article Maronite Church. Under the heading 'Population', it even deals with your question about given names. Xn4 10:57, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Date pronunciation

Now, we say something like 'its the first of June, 2008'. How did people say the date when Queen Elizabeth Tudor I reigned England? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.221.225.139 (talk) 02:48, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

In the time of Queen Elizabeth I, it wasn't very often necessary to speak a date, so people were a little more formal and would usually have said "...the first day of June". If someone needed to identify a year, it might not have been done with the year AD, so we see "...in the year of our Lord 1560" or else some other form, such as one with the regnal year. There's some evidence that years AD were spoken in full - "one thousand, five hundred and sixty". This old-fashioned approach survives in some legal and other formal documents. When George W. Bush proclaimed a National Day of Prayer in 2006, his proclamation ends "In witness whereof, I have hereunto set my hand this third day of May, in the year of our Lord two thousand six, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and thirtieth." Xn4 10:38, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Elizabeth I seems to have been smack bang in the middle of the calendar reform (Pope Gregory XIII). Since there also was religious to and fro, the Gregorian calendar might not have been in use everywhere. You'd have to check not only how someone would say the date, but what date they'd say. --Lisa4edit (talk) 04:17, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

As it says in the Gregorian calendar article, that calendar didn't replace the Julian one in Britain until 1752. --Anonymous, 08:59 UTC, May 26, 2008.

Shigechiyo

Are there any Shigechiyos other than Shigechiyo Izumi? Interactive Fiction Expert/Talk to me 07:19, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Any at all? Almost certainly. But any other well-known ones? - none that are well-known in the West, afaik. There are probably other Shigechiyos who are notable in Japan but unknown in the West. -- JackofOz (talk) 09:53, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

A search of the Japanese Wikipedia only turns up two others, one a fictional character and the other a band member (which could easily be a pseudonym). Neither has an article of their own. Searching on 栄千代, the only other spelling of "Shigechiyo" listed in ENAMDICT, only turns up an entry in a long list of siblings of a feudal lord. None of the three articles has a counterpart in any other Wikipedia. It's surprising because Shigechiyo sounds like an "ordinary" Japanese given name. Its components shige- and -chiyo both appear in a lot of other names. -- BenRG (talk) 13:28, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

This Asiaweek article discusses an interior designer called Suzuki Shigechiyo - not especially famous, but they do exist. I'm not certain whether that's in Western (First name, Surname) or Eastern (Surname, First name) order, though. Laïka 21:40, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

W

Are there any real people named Wario or Waluigi? Interactive Fiction Expert/Talk to me 07:19, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Here's one [9]--Lisa4edit (talk) 08:32, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

If Barr were to carry the state of Georgia..

Given the completely hypothetical situation that Bob Barr or any other third party candidate carry all of Georgia's/any other state's electoral votes and leave the two main party candidates under the threshold of 270, what happens in that case, it gets thrown into the House just like if it were a 269-269 tie?

AlmostCrimes (talk) 08:49, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes. The person having the greatest Number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. (from the twelfth amendment) Algebraist 09:05, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

But the weird thing is that each state delegation in the House gets one vote, rather than a simple vote of all members of the House. It's quite possible that a Democratic-controlled House could vote for the GOP candidate over a Democratic candidate who wins the popular vote. That no one has replaced these arcane rules with something more sensible is another dangerous manifestation of our Founding Father hero-worship. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 21:01, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Soapbox much?Edison (talk) 15:25, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Barr does not have to get the electoral votes from any state to sway the outcome of the election. If Barr on the Libertarian Party ticket gets 3 to 7 % of the votes(per present polls, before he has even campaigned), and if those votes predominantly draw people who would otherwise have voted Republican, it could make the difference in states which are traditionally close such as Ohio and Florida. An ill-layed out "butterfly ballot" made a difference for Bush in Florida in 2000. Edison (talk) 15:25, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

If Barr's people carry Georgia, and they happen to hold the margin of national victory, they would certainly know about that situation long before the electoral college actually casts its ballots. There would be a very strong incentive for them to make a deal with one of the major party candidates, perhaps the one that would fare more poorly in a House vote.--Pharos (talk) 05:20, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

If electors were pledged to Barr, but via a deal cast their votes for, say, McCain or Obama, they would be cosidered "faithless electors" and would possibly be subject to getting the cold shoulder from members of their own party. In some state they might be subject to legal consequences, But their votes would likely be counted and decisive.There have been at least 17 such faithless electors whose presidential votes still counted. Edison (talk) 07:11, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

AFTER AMERICAN CIVIL WAR

After the end of the US Civil War,what was the most widespread crime/illegality? It was not about slaves, KKK, organized crime, gambling,drinkink,theft, lynching. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kleop (talk • contribs) 09:04, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Sounds like a trick question, Kleop? In any event, crime and 'illegality' aren't the same thing - see civil law. May we know, are you asking about crime or not? Xn4 13:40, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Even if we knew, the answer could only show the "most reported crime". The notation of the 1870 census said that some states reported every little offense, while others reported very selectively. The time period "after the American Civil War" is also called "reconstruction era. This question seems to have made the rounds on most Q&A boards. Where did you get it from? Is this from some trivia game or out of someone's history book? I'd go with Xn4 it's probably some trick. --Lisa4edit (talk) 04:01, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Is the correct answer sodomy? Aecis^Brievenbus 11:04, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

playing musical instruments without looking

[note: I transferred this from the language desk, where I'd placed it by mistake. Apologies if it still shows up there somehow, because I have now removed it.]

Hi, when either playing or learning a musical instrument, is it better to look at the instrument, or to play "blindfold" (ie. by not looking)? Are there different schools of thought on this, or is it not really discussed by musicians? 203.221.126.247 (talk) 12:36, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

• Well, if you're reading music, it's a lot easier to follow your part if you're looking at the music rather than at the instrument. And in any case, it's a sign of skill with the instrument that you don't need to look at it. Depends on the instrument, of course; a trumpet player generally knows where his three fingers are without looking, while an organist probably needs to be watching his instrument a lot. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 14:51, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

I see organists playing the hell out of the pedalboard with their feet without ever taking their eyes off the music. They do glance when changing the stops on the organ. Skilled keyboard musicians generally do not seem to need to see their hands, except perhaps when they are moving an octave or two. Clarinettists, flute players and sax players, trombonists and valve brass players do not generally look at their fingers while playing. Proprioception rather than vision seems to be the key. That may be part of why it takes time to learn to play these instruments well. Edison (talk) 19:06, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Will organists usually look when switching manuals? --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 19:13, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

There are pros and cons to each. If you are learning a piece you might have to keep an eye on the sheet music. As I see it there are two general ways to memorize a piece and no longer need to look at the sheet music. One is muscle memory -- if you play it over and over enough times you will start to find your fingers going to the right places on their own. Then you can stop looking at the music and look at your fingers if you want. There are downsides to relying on muscle memory though -- not least of which is that muscle memory can get derailed in a relatively unrecoverable way. Another approach is to spent some time analyzing the music and getting to know its harmonic, melodic, rhythmic, etc, patterns, and practicing memorizing those patterns. This has the benefit of allowing better recovery when you lose your place or concentration, because you understand the reasons behind the unfolding changes, not just the muscle memory. Of course the two approaches can work together, with muscle memory and rational understanding reinforcing one another. It can take a lot of effort to memorize music and no longer need to even have the sheet music in front of you, but I for one think it is far better to play without the sheet music, and with a rational understanding of why the notes follow one after another, supplemented by muscle memory, than it is to be distracted from the music making by the need to glance at the music now and then. None of this is to say you need to look at your fingers. A memorized piece can be played while staring at the ceiling if you want. Pfly (talk) 09:14, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

An organist may be playing a different organ from the one he usually plays, and motor memory or proprioception would lead him to bang his hands against framework where the keyboard isn't if he did not look at where to place the hands. The spacing of keys may also differ on different keyboards, and the arrangement of stops will differ greatly between instruments. As for memorization, that is totally impractical when severl differrent hymns must be played each week, as well as new preludes, postludes, offertories, and perhaps choral accompaniments. I doubt that anyone in a chorch is disturbed by the organist using music. Even so they may practice for hours if something complexis to be played. They may have it "semi-memorized" but still use music and have someone standing by them to turn the page when they give a little nod of the head. Memorizing the music would work and might be expected for a concert or recital. Edison (talk) 15:19, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

As a non-native speaker, I confess to be somewhat puzzled:

user:Edison reports of virtuosi playing their organ with their feet...

user:jpgordon suggest to look at the staff and to ignore the instrument...

user:Pfly says, and I quote, "if you play it over and over enough times you will start to find your fingers going to the right places on their own"...

user:Edison, again, states "an organist may be playing a different organ from the one he usually plays"...

And what about: "it's a sign of skill with the instrument that you don't need to look at it" or "muscle memory can get derailed in a relatively unrecoverable way" or even "a memorized piece can be played while staring at the ceiling if you want"?

Should this all not be on the Entertainment Desk, or, preferably, below the said item of referential furniture? --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 21:41, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

The entertainment desk deals with music so it could be moved there. I do not routinely monitor the Entertainment Desk. Try moving question there and see what answers are added. A side note: are you unaware that there is a row of pedals near the floor on a pipe organ called the pedalboard or Pedal keyboard that are played exclusively with the feet? You might find Pipe organ informative. Edison (talk) 02:10, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

knowing the law

While the courts may hold that "...ignorance of the law is no excuse..." all branches of government have failed to publish the law in the form of a truth or decision table or polychotomous key, yet this is mandatory for anyone wanting to comply fully with the law. So what is the favorite excuse in current use not to publish the law in a manner that puts everyone on the same page with the judge (assuming of course that judges are not likewise ignorant of the law)? 71.100.169.132 (talk) 13:43, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

The law is not published in such a form because it would become redundant almost immediately. If you want to read the law, your local library should have copies of statutes. Lawyers and judges use specialized databases, which are complex, to say the least. Before you undertake any risky activity, you should read up on the law, which to be honest is not that hard. --NeoNerd 19:13, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

There are several meanings for the word redundancy. If you are referring to a race condition where several cases are resolved at the same time, that might add a condition or a state to the law then a race condition is not applicable because the new conditions or condition states are not automatically incorporated into the law immediately but only after a panel of judges reaches a majority conclusion so that a race condition does not exist. If you are referring the word redundant in its more common sense of repetition such as redundant laws then you know nothing of logic or how truth and decision tables or polychotomous keys work. In fact such classification would naturally be online since it is dynamic. All the more reason why persons can not be expected to uphold the law without the law being classified according to the conditions upon which it is based. As for the reason it is not already online I suspect that is because, the law is a trade secret and the public process a business owned and operated by the legal profession. 71.100.169.132 (talk) 22:30, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Legal theory has a rich history to it. It came long before decision tables and polychotomous keys. It does not change its form or its methods just based on the whim of someone who does not implement it. It is designed to give wiggle room and negotiation. It is designed to be used by human beings in a certain cultural context. If you don't understand that, you will never understand how the law works. If you attempt to force your own way of reasoning upon the world, rather than understand the way the world works under its own accord, you will never understand the world. Just a tip. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 04:59, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Construction has a rich history that predates law. The Pyramids were built with human labor. We still use human labor to build buildings but we also incorporate machines to do the heavy lifting and to make the work easier for us. Only elitists would deprive the lay person of the benefit of the application of such tools. 71.100.169.132 (talk) 17:49, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you, 98. That basically sums up my point of view. I would also ask you to be polite, 71 and adhere to civility guidelines. I suspect that your question was more of an attempt to bait people rather than to actually ask something. You are also incorrect in stating that a panel of judges is needed to change the law. One judge can do that, as soon as they make a decision. Obiter comments can change the law. --NeoNerd 14:56, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Where I come from case law is published like statutes are published. While one judge may decide to incorporate a new condition or a new state of a condition into his decision about the case the decision to publish that new condition or new state of an existing condition is not determined by that one judge alone but by a panel of judges.

As for baiting rather than asking something... after clicking on "Help" in the sidebar and "Humanities" in the body of links, start a new topic by clicking on "ask a new question by clicking here." At the top of the edit box you will see the title "Editing Wikipedia:Reference desk/Humanities (comment)" and not "Editing Wikipedia:Reference desk/Humanities (question)".

However, I've finally come to realize that the Wikipedia:Reference desk/Humanities is not manned by the contributors of Wikipedia articles but rather by pre-freshman volunteers who lack answers to such questions and are not qualified to respond to them anyway. 71.100.169.132 (talk) 17:49, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

If you're dissatisfied with the sensible answers to your inane questions, please don't feel obligated to stay. --Captain Ref Desk (talk) 20:43, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Not to worry. Its why we have developed many more resources than the Wikipedia:Reference desk/Humanities desk, for honest students to use. 71.100.169.132 (talk) 22:16, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

See the essay "What is a troll?" Edison (talk) 02:15, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Fed backed real estate scam?

Currently the Fed is buying up the Mortgage businesses as they all are falling thus you have a consolidation of land (real wealth) in the hands of the Central Banks. They are exchanging their worthless currency backed by nothing for real American assets at bargain basement prices. Is the Fed helping us or stealing us? GoingOnTracks (talk) 14:29, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Strictly speaking, the Fed isn't buying anything, they are lending money against (possibly very risky) collateral. I can understand your point of view though, the Fed is not supposed to be a pawnbroker for irresponsible bankers. Unfortunately the alternative is even worse. If they would let those banks fail, every business in America would have a hard time getting loans and finding investors, which would certainly result in a major recession. Maybe the best option would be to simply nationalize banks that can't survive without a government bail out - but that would go completely against official "free market" ideology. DAVID ŠENEK 16:16, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, but if this lending is risky, wouldn't that means that in many many cases the property will end at the hands of the Fed?

The Fed is not supposed to be "a pawnbroker for irresponsible bankers", but it is helping irresponsible bankers survive. So in a few years will these "irresponsible bankers" make a mess again? GoingOnTracks (talk) 17:31, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

That is why many people have called for better regulation of the mortgage business. DAVID ŠENEK 08:32, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Establishment of a British nationality

When was a British nationality established? Was it directly after the Union of 1707? Or rather in 1801? --217.227.126.161 (talk) 16:56, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't think it ever was. Many people here still consider themselves English or Scotish or Welsh, rather than British. And a nationality can't just appear suddenly, it has to develop. The British nation was created in 1707 though.HS7 (talk) 20:40, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

HS7, I think you are using a different definition of nationality from the questioner (See the Nationality article for more on the difference.) As to the question I don't think the answer is clear. As our article on British nationality law notes: "Until 1914 British nationality law was largely uncodified." Rmhermen (talk) 01:36, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Escape to Palestine

hey i just want to know about the girl that escaped from the usa to palestine to see someone i think his name is (abed alla) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.86.24.122 (talk) 17:17, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Could you give us a bit more information? i.e when did it happen; was it in the news; have you any more details on the story? Fribbler (talk) 23:16, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

I think the anon is thinking of Katherine Lester, who ran away at 16 from Michigan to the West Bank to be with a guy she met on the Internet. Our article on her was deleted. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:51, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Ah, looks like it, alright. Now we have the name, the anon can work on the 509,000 ghits I got :-) ; might even be a decent article to be made.... Fribbler (talk) 23:58, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Watergate's meaning

Why was watergate so devastating for nixon? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.142.197.23 (talk) 19:15, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Basically, it showed that he'd directly and willfully lied to the nation, had attempted to cover up the break-in and of course, had broken into his rival's HQ.--NeoNerd 19:21, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

According to our article on the Watergate scandal, the investigation triggered by the Watergate burglaries "revealed the immense scope of crimes and abuses, which included campaign fraud, political espionage and sabotage, illegal break-ins, improper tax audits, murder, illegal wiretapping on a massive scale, and a secret slush fund laundered in Mexico to pay those who conducted these operations". Gandalf61 (talk) 20:24, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Can anyone verify that statement? - except for that line, none of the articles Richard Nixon, Watergate scandal or White House horrors mention any murder. Who was murdered? Rmhermen (talk) 01:32, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

No one was murdered. Don't trust everything you read on Wikipedia. ;-) --98.217.8.46 (talk) 04:50, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Nixon's supporters derided the Watergate caper as a "two bit burglary in which nothing whatsoever was taken." If the arrestees had copped a plea of burglary (perhaps claiming they just wanted to steal office equipment) or even if some low level planners had taken responsibility, Nixon could probably have finished his term in office. It was the coverup that did him in. The "smoking gun" which cost him the support of Republicans in the Senate and House of Representatives was proof he had conspired to cover up involvement of his administration in the burglary. Edison (talk) 15:12, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

let fools contend

Which poem by Alexander Pope contains the three words "let fools contend"? ----Seans Potato Business 20:41, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Apparently the quote is actually: "For Forms of Government let fools contest; whatever is best administered is best." Source. Can't find anything to say where he wrote that, though. · AndonicO ^Engage. 20:45, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

"Essay on Man" : "For Forms of Government, let Fools contest; Whate’er is best Administered is best." --Wetman (talk) 20:50, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

May 26

Model and methodology

Moved from the Help Desk. PeterSymonds (talk) 08:34, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
difference between a model and methodology —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.16.176.66 (talk) 07:09, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

a model is an organized way to think about something. A methodology is an organized way to do something. (Caveat: a "computer model" can be exectued. executing the model is a methodology.) -Arch dude (talk) 22:43, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Or, a model is a pattern or example for thinking about something; methodology, a system of methods and a method is a set of procedures, an organised way or steps to do something. Julia Rossi (talk) 00:18, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

I do not agree with the last bit of the parenthetical remark; running a computer simulation does not a methodology make. The term "model" is rather general and can mean many things, depending on context. In most cases it is a simplified or more abstract representation of something concrete that is more complicated. If done right, you can answer questions about the more complex thing by studying the model.

In most cases when people use the term "methodology", they mean an organized set of methods for tackling some class of problems: Dating methodology, System Development Methodology, Value Measuring Methodology, and so on. See also Methodology.  --Lambiam 00:28, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Tenth century Byzantine policy to the caliphate

What were the major battles of the 950s between Byzantium and Sayf ad-Dawla? There doesn't seem to be anything specific on it... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.77.35.53 (talk) 08:47, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

The most specific article we have is Byzantine-Arab Wars (780–1180), which discusses battles with Sayf al-Daula. Adam Bishop (talk) 12:21, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

SARS morbidity rates

Canada and HK, to my surprise had a higher death rate than China and Singapore. I expected Canada is the most developed of these countries to have a higher survival rate, and China (as an LEDC)to have a lower death rate, and Singapore as an NIC to be somewhere in between. Is there any reason why this isn't the case? I'm thinking that China has a far larger "sample" so its death rate there is a somewhat more reliable picture of Sars? 79.72.197.227 (talk) 12:24, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

In order to have an opinion, how would one adjust for the varying credibilities of official figures? --Wetman (talk) 16:26, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

What about age-adjustment? Most diseases kill the elderly more, and populations may have different average ages.John Z (talk) 03:19, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

I think the figures are credible, they are from the WHO... but age! Yes! Age! Fantastic, Canada has an ageing population! (My IP's probably changed, but it's still me haha) 79.78.65.89 (talk) 11:01, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Well the WHO generally relies at least partly on officials and doctors in the countries they are reporting on. And these figures may vary, I'm not talking about people covering up deaths although that's a possibility but the fact that the varying systems in place to catch all deaths and report them to the people at the top. Age may be a factor, although it's difficult to say how big a factor. Bearing in mind SARS was AFAIK never widespread in Canada for example but isolated to people who had been in contact with carrier it's infection profile may not have mimicked Canada's population. While Canada has an excellent public health system, I suspect it may not have been available to many of the people affected (who may have been tourists, students, people on work permits or illegal immigrants) meaning they might not have gone to a doctor until fairly late. Another factor may be that China as the source for the virus and also with the greatest number of cases would likely have had the greatest genetic variation in the virus. Nil Einne (talk) 16:57, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Organised crime

Have any attorneys that represent gangsters, members of organized crime or the Mafia attended Columbia University or Harvard Law School? 71.100.169.132 (talk) 23:19, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Edward Hayes at a push (Columbia University). Looking at the article, while he was to represent persons accused of mafia involvement, he's not exactly your typical "mob lawyer". Fribbler (talk) 18:42, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Let me guess—you are hoping to find a few from these particular universities in some sort of guilt-by-association with Barack Obama? Can't you see that's a little pathetic, not to mention illogical? Columbia University is one of the top undergraduate institutions in the United States; Harvard Law School is one of the top law schools. You're going to get a whole mix of people who have graduated from such institutions who went through all different walks of life. The same could be said of all elite institutions. --Captain Ref Desk (talk) 20:44, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Something to hide? Where better to hide than behind the Wikipedia:Reference desk/Humanities desk or perhaps one of those elitist institutions. 71.100.169.132 (talk) 22:20, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Feeding of ye Olde Norse dwarflets of the 71.100 Viking clan is, whilst not prohibited, not constructive. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 23:04, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Thought it was a legitimate question (though in hindsight, an odd one) initially. My cat-like ref-desk reflexes tend to lead me to answer any question I see....occasionally providng sustainance to the aforementioned sur le pont dwellers. Fribbler (talk) 23:12, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

It is very much a legitimate question and what you fail to realize when you go on these personal vendetta attacks is that by acting in this way you fail to provide responses to others who may have the same question. But I realize you guys are all into yourselves and do not care about others. So typical of lets see... preadolescence. 71.100.169.132 (talk) 23:18, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

I just don't see why anyone else would want to know the answer to the question. It's like asking "Has anyone from Eastern Denmark ever filed a dodgy tax return?". If you don't explain why you want to know it, then it looks like trolling when combined with your other questions. Fribbler (talk) 23:26, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

The reason for the question is that lots of people take things on face value, which I try not to do. 71.100.169.132 (talk) 23:37, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

(exdent) What is the face value that you believe people will take things on, in this regard? (Not a challenge; just a query)Fribbler (talk) 23:45, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

There are differences in degrees of respect one accords another on the basis of whether they went to school or not and if they did what school it might have been because various schools tend to acquire a certain reputation. For instance, while I would look for Berkley graduates to populate my radiation lab I would look for Harvard graduates to add to my legal staff. Eventually such reputations become the face value of which I speak that might require one to probe a bit deeper. Would you pick a mate on reputation alone? Maybe but my guess is that you might want to apply your own questions to determine if the reputation was correct. 71.100.169.132 (talk) 23:18, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Grand, so to summarise my research: there is no evidence that graduates of Columbia or Harvard Law School represented persons shown to be involved in organised crime. That's not to say it hasn't happened, but there is no sign of it. Fribbler (talk) 00:15, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Ah... and precisely why there is a reason to be concerned about taking a person's claim to be a graduate of Columbia University and Harvard Law school on face value, especially one who does not consider publication of the law in the form of a decision table or polychotomous key to be of any value. 71.100.169.132 (talk) 23:18, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

LOL. "Yes, my assumption is totally wrong, but that only proves it right, because after all, the law should be in the form of a decision table or a polychotomous key! Elementary my dear Watson, as long as I neglect to take my medication!" --98.217.8.46 (talk) 02:05, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Do you ever wonder if this guy is related to 65.163.etc on the Miscellaneous desk? Adam Bishop (talk) 07:45, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Nah, 65.163 isn't a troll. He's a perfectly harmless individual who is obsessed with UFOs, conspiracy theories and Fox News. This guy is something else. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 08:26, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

There's a basic assumption underlying your posts, 71.100, which is highly questionable. You seem to be saying that a lawyer who represents a mobster is somehow guilty of associating with the mob. This is nonsense. Anyone accused of a crime is entitled to legal representation; innocent until proven guilty, remember? Lawyer friends of mine have represented people accused of murder and rape in court. Does that mean their morals are questionable? Of course not. It's the lawyer's job to ensure that the accused gets treated fairly under the law. Until the verdict is handed down, no-one can say whether the accused is innocent or guilty. You may not like that, but it's a fundamental principle of the Anglo-Saxon legal tradition. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 08:33, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

You might have forgotten that he doesn't recognize the Anglo-Saxon legal tradition as legitimate since it doesn't involve a decision table or a polychotomous key (that is, he's a crank). --98.217.8.46 (talk) 22:23, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

It may be a fundamental principle of the legal system but "innocent until proven guilty" has never carried any weight in US elections. DJ Clayworth (talk) 17:27, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

May 27

"Back up our battleskies!"

There are a number of US anti-Japanese World War II posters which encourage people to support the war effort and have this phrase ("back up our battleskies!") at the bottom of them; this is one example. It's always accompanied by a particular cartoon, so it's all part of one campaign. My question for the collective intelligence of the reference desk: is a battlesky a thing, or is it just 'battle' with 'skies' added to be more endearing? — maestrosync ^talk — 00:06, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

It looks like "battleskies" is a coinage meaning skies where battles take place. Googling on "Back up our battleskies" took me here where we find out that the apparently meaningless phrase is actually the title of the Curtiss-Wright "morale song" of c. 1943. I was unable to identify the uniform the little guy is supposed to have on. --Milkbreath (talk) 01:16, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

I think the uniform is Civilian Defense but couldn't find any pre-Cold War images to confirm that. Rmhermen (talk) 03:08, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Seems like a coinage by the aforementioned company from 1942 used from then until 1945 in the U.S. [10] , to make the point that "battleskies" are like battlefields. It also seems that "battleseas" [11] did not even get the limited usage that battleskies did. Edison (talk) 01:52, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Interesting—I'd never thought of the word like that. Thanks for the insights, everyone. — maestrosync ^talk — 09:05, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Paradox?

I have a house that must be re-painting before it can be let to tenants. For every day that it stays empty, I lose $40 in lost rent. On the other hand, every day I spent painting it costs me the equivalent of $200 in effort. If I postpone painting it for another day, I am therefore better off by $200-$40=$160. Why then should I ever start to do any work on the house? 80.0.110.30 (talk) 01:12, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

• 'Cause eventually you'll stop painting the house and start making money again? --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 01:16, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

• Just keep painting 'till you're a millionaire then find another house, do the same and become a multimillionaire! --hydnjo talk 01:46, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

The error is "If I postpone painting it for another day, I am therefore better off by $200-$40=$160." In fact you are worse off by $40. The $200 pertains to days that you do paint, not days that you might have painted.

This is essentially the same error that advertisers try to tempt you into making when they say "Regularly $100, on sale today for $80, save $20." You only save $20 by buying the item today if you were going to buy it anyway, not if you mmight have been going to buy it. --Anonymous, 04:39 UTC, May 27, 2008.

Since painting the house is mandatory if you want to rent it out, you're committed to painting it if you ever want any more rental income from the house. So the $200-a-day painting cost is a given, but it has a finite end. The $40 a day you get in rent will go on indefinitely as long as you keep on letting the house out. The alternative is not to paint the house, not to let it out ever again, and it just sits there gathering dust and earning you no income, ever. Which option seems the better one to you? If you considered the cost of petrol is too high, you might decide not to fill your gas tank when it runs dry. Fine, except that you've then got an asset you can't use, and it's just become a waste of space, not a vehicle for getting you anywhere. To get somewhere, you'll still have to spend money on a bus, taxi, train or whatever. -- JackofOz (talk) 06:43, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

This relates to another question I was thinking of asking - how can I make myself work harder and be less lazy? It may be related to the time-horizon one chooses - over one day, it is pointless to do the painting. Over five years, it makes sense. Perhaps we humans have inherited a short time horizon because in prehistory we had a high risk of dying, so a long time horizon was no good. The question then is, how do I lenghten my time horizon? 80.2.206.229 (talk) 13:26, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

• Do the math more often? The house painting pays for itself in 5 rental days for each day spent painting. --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 16:15, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

The problem, from an economics point of view, is that you are confusing losses and investment. For a day spent doing nothing you are losing the opportunity to make $40. For a day spent painting you are not losing $200; you are spending $200 and increasing the value of your house by $200. Your balance sheet (if you had one) would not show a reduction in your assets of $200.

It would be worth leaving the house unpainted if you could do some other activity for the day which would make you enough money to get a $50 a day return on investing it, but that's a lot of money. DJ Clayworth (talk) 17:24, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

• Reminds me, though, of: "The more you study, the more you know. The more you know, the more you can forget. The more you can forget, the more you do forget. The more you forget, the less you know. The less you know, the more you need to study. So why study?" --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 18:34, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Foreign policy of Libya

Where can I find the foreign policy of Libya and how it stands on the issue on Iran nuclear issue? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.64.131.2 (talk) 01:24, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Why did Libya voted in favour of UN Security Council sanction on Iran? Please answer this question. Thank you. Why anyone hasn't answer my question. 76.64.131.2

See Foreign relations of Libya. Also there are a couple of sentences about Libya's relations with Iran in Iran-Arab relations. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 07:34, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

It did not help me a lot. I need more information on the foreign policy and the nuclear program in Iran. 76.64.131.2 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.64.131.245 (talk) 23:07, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Allusion too obscure?

"XXX is the Thomas Dewey of the twenty-first century."

Suppose this is in an essay on XXX's electoral campaign. Would this allusion be too obscure for a Canadian adult audience? --Bowlhover (talk) 04:36, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

I think that would probably be too obscure even for an American adult audience. (Personally, as a Canadian adult, I know the "Dewey defeats Truman" picture, but I did not know his first name was Thomas.) Adam Bishop (talk) 07:43, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

My first reaction was to assume this referred to the inventor of Dewey Decimal Classification, so I would say yes, it's too obscure. -- Beland (talk) 19:14, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

The context is what determines how well the allusion is understood. If your essay is about the fact that XXX has won lost an election that no one ever expected him to win lose, then the Dewey reference might be understood in Canada and the States. Otherwise, I'm with Beland, wondering what data classification system XXX has invented. ៛ Bielle (talk) 22:32, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Um, the headline was wrong. Dewey lost an election that no one expected him to lose. I don't think many people other than history or politics buffs would be expected know this now, but maybe a political article is directed to that type of person. Why not take a moment to remind people about who Dewey was and then make your analogy? --Anonymous, 00:30 UTC, May 28, 2008.

Australia

Why did Australia become a federation on a DISGUSTING date? A date where people would be busy celebrating the new century? Interactive Fiction Expert/Talk to me 09:56, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

The date was the first day of 1901. The public tends to celebrate new centuries/millennia in years ending with a double zero, not an oh-one, so the celebrations would have been long over. WikiJedits (talk) 12:39, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

I think that's a recent social development. Back then, nobody would have considered 1 January 1900 to be the start of anything other than a new year. On the other hand, 1 January 1901 wasn't chosen as federation date because it was the start of the new century. The process of getting the colonies' agreement to federate took a number of years, and it finally reached fruition in 1900. The UK Parliament then had to introduce a law establishing Australia's constitution, which took some time, and Queen Victoria gave her assent in September 1900. 1 January was chosen as a suitable date for it to take effect, purely for administrative convenience, and the next available 1 January just happened to be the start of the new century, 1 January 1901. It was a nice coincidence for a new nation to be born on the first day of a new century, but it was still only a coincidence. -- JackofOz (talk) 23:06, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Re the social development: I just took that statement from the Millennium#Debate over millennium celebrations article I linked to - maybe it needs correcting. In the New York Times archive there are at least three accounts of celebrations (pdf files) on Dec. 31, 1899 - up to interpretation of course whether they are for a new century or really only a new year. The editorial one seems to be a century review, but that doesn't mean the celebrations were. BTW, also found this interesting page about Australia's 1901 commonwealth celebrations! WikiJedits (talk) 23:33, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Why is it disgusting? The start of the year seems like a good time to do big things, and the year 1901 itself is just the way it happened. (Incidentally, I don't think finding a date disgusting is a valid criterion for vandalising an article.) — maestrosync ^talk — 13:08, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Isn't this the same date that black slaves were originally made free after the American Civil War? (Or celebrated their freedom?) Don't diss the date, it makes a new start to God's Great garden Katana Geldar 23:04, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

The Aswan High Dam

Why did the Soviet Union help the Eygptians to build the Aswan High Dam? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.146.164.190 (talk) 11:10, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Cold War strategising, have a look at Gamal Abdel Nasser and Suez Crisis. Mhicaoidh (talk) 11:52, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

To cut a long story short: the US had stopped supporting this project a few years earlier. The USSR saw this dam as its entry into Egypt, as a way to win the support of Egypt. Because Nasser was popular in the Arab world, it was seen as a way to win the hearts and minds of Arab leaders. Aecis^Brievenbus 13:47, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

You might also check out the Non-Aligned Movement. Basically Egypt was one of many states that flirted with both of the major super powers as a way of trying to get the best of both worlds; they were better at it than most. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 00:58, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Longest post-presidential career?

I'm wondering which US President lived the longest after leaving office. Was it Herbert Hoover, at 31 years?Woden325 (talk) 16:42, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

According to our page List of United States Presidents by age, Gerald Ford had the longest retirement; however, Jimmy Carter will beat him sometime in the next three years. WikiJedits (talk) 17:14, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Hang on, no, you're right. I missed Hoover in that list. WikiJedits (talk) 17:16, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you, that's exactly what I was looking for. I was guessing based on this: Timeline of Presidents of the United States, but it's not nearly as precise. President Carter may well break Hoover's record, he's only a little over 4 years off. Woden325 (talk) 17:55, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Fundamentalist Mormon Women

Are fundamentalist Mormon women allowed to use hairspray63.215.26.209 (talk) 17:30, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

I imagine "rules" would vary from sect to sect. A common theme, I would expect, is that they dress modestly and avoid vanity. So I would suspect that hairspray may be frowned upon in many of these communities. Friday (talk) 17:37, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

What are these architectural grids?

These days I see lots of grids hanging off the sides of new buildings, which look like pergolas, but are extensions of the roof and have no vegetation. Is there another term for such a thing? I had thought for a while that this was some sort of Asian-influenced architecture, but I assume pergolas are Roman? -- Beland (talk) 19:19, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

If they contain slats and louvres and aim to shade the building, then they are brise soleil. The illustrations in this article are a little atypical, more common is a grid over the whole face of the building, generally horizontal louvres to the south (in northern hemisphere) and vertical to the east and west, to deal with the varying altitude of the sun. There is an increase in this technique around the world as it's a passive, sustainable form of solar control as opposed to air conditioning. Slats and louvres are also fashionable at the moment compared to the tinted or reflective glass popular as solar control in the 80s. Mhicaoidh (talk) 00:51, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

If your grid is not just an extension of a roof, but covers the side of a skyscraper downtown, it might be a structure designed to prevent "street canyon" wind effects that might damage the building or knock pedestrians off their feet. There was a building in one of the cities I lived in, where they had to install structures on a new high-rise after passer-bys found it close to impossible to walk in the street in high wind conditions. --Lisa4edit (talk) 04:24, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Ah, they look exactly like the picture on Brise soleil from the Yorkshire Sculpture Park. Thanks! 8) There are also things like what's in Image:TropicalVerandah.jpg which seems less functional.

I'm still wondering if there was a strain of Asian architecture that had this kind of feature in it; check out the picture, for instance, of the Chinese building on latticework. I've added an expansion request to that article, if anyone's interested in researching the history of this decorative feature. -- Beland (talk) 00:36, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Origins of credit card size?

I was curious if anyone knew the history of the size of credit cards? Why are they the size they are and not longer or shorter or square? The Credit Card entry does't seem to shine any light on this. Is it perhaps linked to the size of American business cards? If so, why are business cards the size they are? --70.167.58.6 (talk) 21:52, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Probably to fit in a wallet. I have Boy Scout merit badge cards from 1930–1940 that are a similar size. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 21:57, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

In mathematics, there is an animal called the golden ratio. It is a ratio of length to width that repeats throughout nature and which is (purported to be) attractive. Credit cards are sized according to that ratio. Note: The golden ratio is such that the short side / long side = long side / (short side + long side). Wikiant (talk) 22:19, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

But they aren't. It says here that the dimensions are 85.60 by 53.98 mm, and measuring my own credit and bank cards confirms that. The golden ratio would give 87.34 instead of 85.60 mm (or if the 85.60 was kept the same, 52.90 mm instead of 53.98).

Googling for that standard together with the word "rationale", I find that the question has been discussed on the Reference Desks at least twice previously, and nobody came up with a reason then for the specific size. --Anonymous, 00:50 UTC, May 28, 2008.

Don't know about proportions, but the scale relates to the human hand or palm in a general way. Julia Rossi (talk) 00:57, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Human features generally follow the golden ratio, so fashioning the card according to the average human palm would also give you the golden ratio. The measurements you give are only 2% off of the golden ratio -- close enough. Wikiant (talk) 02:17, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

It need not to be a rationale. Someone got to design a credit card. Cut a paper board and the others copied it. 217.168.3.246 (talk) 04:37, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

It's the golden ratio rounded to the nearest 1/8 of an inch. --Carnildo (talk) 21:00, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Can I suggest another angle, perhaps they were printed in factories already geared to produce similar cards such as drivers licences or IDs. Or it could have been related to how many you can get out of a plastic sheet with minimum wastage. Or perhaps the most efficient size for one of the early manual "swiping" machines. I recall it was quite an effort to imprint a card on the docket in one of those, incidentally is there a proper name? We called them "zip zap" here. Mhicaoidh (talk) 10:09, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

The current standard seems to be ISO 7810. Does anyone know, is it based on the size and shape of the original Diners Club card? Xn4 16:31, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Per Time Magazine [12] (1958), when Diners Club introduced their card in 1950 and American Express in 1958, they were joining earlier cards which had less general usability, including hotel cards and gas company cards. The credit cards probably followed the earlier size standard of those earlier cards, which had to fit in wallets sized for drivers' licenses, social security cards, and other ID cards and permits, pushing the size decision farther back still. Credit card says that such cards were used for fuel purchases back in the 1920's. Edison (talk) 03:13, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Latin American nationalism

How come in the Americas, the Spanish-speaking countries don't have parties that deals with Latin American Nationalism like "Arab Nationalism"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.64.131.33 (talk) 23:31, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

A marxist would tell you nationalism is an illusion anyway. They don't have to have national or nationalism in their title to be nationalist. I've done African nationalism at University, and there was also a course on Latin America but I never did that one. African nationalism is quite unique, so I suspect there are unique features to Latin America too. SGGH ^speak! 09:50, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Possibly because colonialism is much further in the past for Latin America than it is for the Middle East (and Africa), and they have since sorted out their borders with plain old-fashioned wars. Perhaps also because, aside from the natives, everyone is a Spanish-speaking Catholic, so there are no ethnic and religious struggles. The big political movement in Latin America is liberation theology, isn't it? Adam Bishop (talk) 12:55, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

May 28

Paul Nicklen Art

My son is doing a project for school and has a print out of Paul Nicklen's "A Brilliant Aurorae over Grey Mountains" painting. He has to have the name of the painting, artist name, and date of the painting. We obviously have the name of the painting and the artist. Can you tell me the date of the painting?

Thank you,

Sherman, TX —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.96.233.174 (talk) 01:36, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi Sherman, why not show your son how to search google for Paul Nicklen. The first hit is the photographer's website. Your son can send him an email to ask when he took the picture (it is a photograph, not a painting, as far as I can tell - is it one of these?). A few hits further down you can show your son Nicklen's official biography from National Geographic, which might help with the project too. WikiJedits (talk) 01:53, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

dominating force

who was the dominating force in WWII in terms of military might and effectiveness not necessarily in terms of number of men —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.98.97.66 (talk) 04:07, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

The Allies generally, and either the Soviet Union or the United States specifically, depending on your criteria. If you want a different scale, the tank and/or blitzkrieg tactics and the aircraft carrier would be good suggestions, much as trenches and the machine gun defined the Great War battlefield. — Lomn 04:38, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

The Atomic bomb. Edison (talk) 07:01, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

The atomic bomb didn't fight the war; all it did was convince Japan to surrender at a time when they were at their weakest anyway. As has been said, radar won the war, the atomic bomb just ended it. The import of the atomic bomb even as a military weapon during WWII has been greatly exaggerated, to say nothing of the fact that after Hiroshima and Nagasaki the US supplies of them dwindled to almost nothing until the late 1940s. Carpet bombing had far more military consequences than the atomic bomb did. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 17:13, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Not for the most part of the war, though. SGGH ^speak! 09:48, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

The problem with this question is that the Second World War had different stages. There just isn't a single answer for the whole of the War. Xn4 16:25, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

US Air Force Distinguished Service Medal

I've asked several people this, including Air Force public relations, and gotten no answer. What is the blue stone that is used at the center of the Distinguished Service Medal? Fonce Diablo (talk) 05:17, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

The US Military site here discusses the "obverse design has a sunburst of thirteen gold rays separated by thirteen white enameled stars, with a semiprecious blue stone in the center." while this site says "The blue stone in the center represents the vault of the heavens" but I can't find the specific material. No books seem to name is as anything other than "blue stone" either. SGGH ^speak! 09:47, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

What if you called air force pr back and asked them who is the manufacturer of the medal? Then call that company - they should know. WikiJedits (talk) 13:12, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

DHL company in Malaysia

How to explain the general environment of DHL company in Malaysia using the Pestel analysis and it`s competative environment using porter`s five forces. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.188.235.131 (talk) 05:18, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Have you seen our pages PEST analysis and Porter 5 forces analysis? Look at the criteria and then find out how DHL matches those. --71.236.23.111 (talk) 09:29, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

My religion is between my god and me

I read the quote somewhere, but I can't remember who said it. At first I thought it was from Gandhi, but I can't find any site that attributed the quote to him. Can anyone help me identify who said it? Although now that I think about it, it could have been from an anonymous person. Anyway, your help in clarifying it would be appreciated. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.69.217.138 (talk) 08:13, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Malcolm X said "Island is my religion, but I believe my religion is my personal business. It governs my personal like and my personal morals. And my religious philosophy is personal between me and the God in whom I believe", that's the closest I can find. SGGH ^speak! 09:43, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

inherit the throne

Why does gender sometimes matter in inheriting the throne and sometimes it doesn't? Princess Anne goes lower than her younger brothers, but why then does Princess Beatrice go higher than Peter Philips even though he's a male? 67.68.32.13 (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 10:50, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

I think if all else is equal then it goes males first then females, but if they are 'steps' ahead then they don't get jumped up the queue. I have no idea if Beatrice is a closer relative than Peter Phillips, but presumably she is and that is why she is ahead. Whereas Anne is no closer than her younger brothers so they will 'overtake' her by virtue of being male. There's probably a wiki article on it under something like succession or British Monarchy 194.221.133.226 (talk) 11:15, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Line of succession to the British throne is probably the best article. Beatrice outranks Peter because sons outrank daughters, and children come before siblings. Andrew's children come immediately after Andrew, and thus before Anne and her children. Algebraist 11:26, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

This is Cognatic Primogeniture, because they can't be bothered to change it to a more modern and equal system. Although some countries have. And I think some are even worse, hardly ever letting women rule.HS7 (talk) 15:15, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Japan for example (Japanese succession controversy), although there have been talk of changing it because of the lack of a suitable male heir. The birth of one seems to have delayed/reduced calls for this but the current PM for example, still supports it. The Windsor case is complicated by the fact that the support of the Commonwealth realms will be ideal to avoid the situation where the various laws are out of sync with each other on succession and the fact that many of those most supportive of the idea probably want to do away with the monarch anyway. The fact that the current line means it's likely to make no difference is another factor. If William gets married and his first born is a daughter with at least one son after that, there may be a stronger impetus (but it'll likely have to happen when the male heirs are still fairly young otherwise there will be complaints it's unfair to those who were raised expecting to be the next in line after their father) Nil Einne (talk) 16:12, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

It's also complicated by the facts that certain female members of the Royal Family reportedly desperately don't want to be higher up in the succession list, and that even if sex differences were wiped out the three closest heirs would remain the same. Therefore nobody feels an urgent need to change things. (Also, the change must be made by an act of Parliament, and I suspect the government of the day doesn't want the hassle.) --NellieBly (talk) 03:44, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

To avoid controversy, it may be best to make changes before the younger brother is born. Some people here in Sweden are still bothered about Prince Carl Philip getting bumped from being first in line to the throne at the age of seven or so months, when the reforms of the Act of Succession were adopted to equal primogeniture. /85.194.44.18 (talk) 16:30, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

It's an odd hangover, particularly these days when discrimination by gender is generally outlawed in most other areas of life. They also discriminate on religious grounds - the monarch can technically be a member of any religion except Roman Catholicism. I believe Tony Blair talked about changing the law to make the succession arrangements more in line with modern thinking on inclusivity in employment, but it hasn't got past that stage. -- JackofOz (talk) 22:49, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Actually, according to the Windsors' website, the religious requirements are more restrictive (must be a protestant and in communion with the CofE). Any such change would (I think) be hotly contested, and like Nil, I doubt any government will try to push it through until it actually matters. Algebraist 22:57, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't see how ordering by age is any fairer than ordering by sex and then age. It's not as though any of these people did anything to earn their place in the line of succession. The only benefit to changing the order that I can see would be a larger proportion of queens, which certainly wouldn't be a bad thing. I prefer queens anyway, kings are a lot less mobile and have to be carefully protected. But ultimately it seems like it would be much "fairer" to do away with the royal family and promote pawns instead—by general election presumably, or we could bring back the old system of quests perilous. Or get rid of the monarch entirely, but I'm not sure that's a good idea. There are advantages to having separate ceremonial and political heads of state. -- BenRG (talk) 23:01, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

@ Algebraist: Putting aside the facts that Charles was the first-born anyway, and that his first-born child is also a male, one could argue that it matters a great deal already. It matters because the succession rules incorporate examples of structural discrimination that are out of step with the way the rest of the Commonwealth is expected to operate. A lot of people still look to the Royal Family as role models. The Queen and her various governors-general have given royal assent to all the various bits of anti-discrimination legislation throughout the Commonwealth, and I'm sure all the assenters would have agreed these are good laws that make for a better and fairer world. The Queen has done a lot of things to modernise the monarchy and ensure she's seen as being in touch with community expectations, e.g. paying taxes she's not legally required to pay etc. Many people want to see the outright removal of the monarchy, but even they would welcome a change to the succession laws to bring them more into line with the access and equity framework that we mere mortals live by. Granted, any such change would not have any actual effect until such time as the death of a monarch whose first-born child happens to be a female. The earliest possible occasion would be the death of William V (currently Prince William), assuming he has a daughter first. That's probably at least 60 years down the track, and who knows if there'll even be monarchies by then (Nepal has just abolished its monarchy). I'm more interested in the implicit unfairness in the British model that has always applied and continues to this day. Symbolic changes are just as important as practicable changes, and constitutional monarchies are all about symbolism. -- JackofOz (talk) 23:43, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Romani/Gipsy brass band music

Hello. I've searched the articles on Romani music, but haven't been able to find what I am looking for. Quite specifically, I am looking for a piece of brass band music. It's very enthralling and cheery, but I don't know what is being sung. I recently saw a surrealistic Yugoslavian film (though recently made) about two Yugoslavs who fought the German occupation. Not sure about the title. Anyway, the brass band was prominent, because it'd follow them and perform this same piece over and over again. Performed instrumentally (as it was in that film), it had good potential for repeating over again. Trumpets and bass drums were important, but there were many other brass instruments. It would go something like DAdahdah(dadada), DAdahdah(dadada), DAdahdah(dadada), DAdahdah(dadada)-aaa-*wild and chaotic, writing doesn't really suffice*.

I know you've been able to answer vaguer questions about pieces of art, literature and music before, so I hope this will suffice. :) Scaller (talk) 13:11, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

The movie is Underground (film), the soundtrack is "Kalasjnikov". Thank you! Scaller (talk) 13:45, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Are there social movements using wikis? And how?

I am trying to find information on whether there are any social movements using the wiki technology, and if so, how are they using it. If you can provide any examples (of social movement wikis, or works discussing that, or just anything you've heard) I would appreciate it.--_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 13:55, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Anytime a widespread group of people want to share information and collaborate, a wiki is a free and easy way to do so. They're easy enough to find. Google an issue and the word wiki. After you get past the wikipedia stuff, most major issues have at least one. ex: Autism Wiki or Global Warming Wiki. 160.10.98.34 (talk) 16:21, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Depends on what you mean by "social movement"? I'd say Wikipedia qualifies. --D. Monack | talk 19:38, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

What is the name for the study of the history of printing / writing / the book?

I may want to study the above in graduate school. Assuming that I could get in to most programs, what would the best choice be?

In other words, would it be better to study history, English, or even anthropology? Where are the best programs located? Who are the leading scholars in this field?

Your help in answering my questions is greatly appreciated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.87.70.194 (talk) 14:57, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

This is a very general question. You haven't mentioned for example, whether you're likely to be restriced to one country. It sounds to me that you're an American, but whatever the case, are you willing to consider universities in the US? Canada? the UK? Australia? What about e.g. Germany or France or Japan (which will almost definitely entail learning French or German if you don't know it already). Nil Einne (talk) 15:41, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Printing, of course, has a history which is very different from that of writing, and the history of writing divides into the history of the act of writing itself (palaeography, etc) and that of writing as a literary art. Books are part of the history of all of them. So your question really needs more focus, as suggested by Nil Einne. Xn4 16:20, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't think the above really falls into anthropology; I've seen people studying such things in both English programs as well as History programs, as well as History of Science programs (in the latter venue, look at the works by Jim Secord or Adrian Johns). There are a lot of links at the bottom of the History of the book page that might be useful. From what I understand of it, the specific venue you will want will depend on what time period and location you are interested in (19th century Britain? 15th century France? etc.) or whether you have thematic interests (the book as a way of transmitting scientific knowledge? the book as reflective of changing literary patterns of the middle class?), etc. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 17:10, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

To clarify: yes, I am an American. I have studied English at both a small liberal arts school in the U.S. as well as an Oxbridge college in the U.K. and would prefer to continue studying in a country where English is the native language. I am interested in the medium of the book itself, its history, and its place in anthropological and cultural studies. I suppose I was wondering if English is the best path to studying the medium of the book (in graduate school). Thank you for your responses thus far. 204.87.70.194 (talk) 18:43, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

You'll probably want to read up on some of the basic seminal texts in the field, just so you have a better idea of what it is you want to do and how it compares with what has already been done. After having done that it will be much easier to talk with potential professors about their programs, whether they would be apt for you. (And while I have no doubt that there would be anthropological insights to be gained, again, I have never seen anything that would make me think that this sort of study would be considered appropriate in an Anthropology department. They would wonder what you were doing had to do with their discipline. Just a tip. You might look into Science and Technology Studies, a discipline which includes anthropology and history and would probably be more accepting to that approach, if you really want to go the Anthropology route. In general though I think you're looking at English programs or History programs.) --98.217.8.46 (talk) 19:29, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

To answer a part of the question, I don't know of a word for the study of the history etc. of books. There are plenty of nifty words in that general area, though. "Bibliogony" is the production of books. "Bibliology" is the scientific description of books. "Bibliopegy" is bookbinding. "Bibliopoesy" is the making of books. --Milkbreath (talk) 19:46, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

There is a program at the University of Toronto (in collaboration with various departments) called "Book History and Print Culture", which covers all of this. Adam Bishop (talk) 21:09, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

In academia in general it is called history of the book. If you told people you were interested in studying that they'd understand what you meant. If you said you were interested in bibilology they'd say Gesundheit. ;-) --98.217.8.46 (talk) 01:25, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

What is the Marxist Scientific Method?

Is there any work that outlines the Marxist scientific method? --Gary123 (talk) 15:16, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

What do you mean by the Marxist scientific method? Do you mean the Marxist philosophy of science and nature? That is a subset of what is known as dialectical materialism (I don't think our page is very clear on the philosophy of nature aspects of it—it is really about hierarchical levels of knowledge that cannot affect one another, but that's a whole other story). Do you mean, the way in which Marxism calls itself a "science"? That is just hogwash with no methodology supporting it. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 17:03, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Probably not what you're looking for, but Ben Goldacre's Bad Science mentions Trofim Lysenko, a top Soviet biologist who: "thought natural selection was too individualistic, and spent his career growing plants really close together, in the hope they would develop collectivist tendencies." Dooky (talk) 15:20, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

That's amusing, but is not actually what Lysenko believed. Our page on Lysenko is much more accurate. He was scientifically wrong, but not for reasons that are very entertaining. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 15:30, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Historical Religious Flag

I need more information concerning an old flag with a red cross on the right side and the words "By This Sign Conquer" next to the cross. I have a picture of the flag. Need instructions to download the picture. Please contact me (here). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.151.178.27 (talk) 18:06, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

(I removed your contact info as per the instructions at the top of this page -SandyJax (talk) 18:35, 28 May 2008 (UTC))

The order of the Knights Templar uses a red cross and, on the seal, the Latin inscription "In hoc signo vinces". I could not find an image in WP, but there must be one in Google somewhere. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 18:23, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

The actual Templars did not use that motto, so you've probably got a fake, or some modern recreation that claims to be Templars. "In hoc signo" was Constantine I's motto. Adam Bishop (talk) 21:06, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Oops, I must have mixed it up with that other saint, Simon Templar :) --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 21:27, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Meaning of the name Pen Argyl , and the people who founded the town .

The name Pen Argyl ( pronounced Pehn Argil , or Pehn Arjil ) derives from 2 words : Pen , meaning the mountain region ; Argyl , from the word " argylite " , a type of slate . Together , the two words mean " Mountain of Slate " . This name was giving to the town by the immigrants ( the ancestors or grandparents of the people of Pen Aygyl ) who arrived to the United States from the town of Delabole ; Cornwall , England . Many of the men arriving from Cownwall were slate quarry workers ; having worked in the Delabole Slate Quarry . They left their homeland because of lack of work in the tin mines . Many were forced to leave their homes and find work in other places in United Kingdom , Canada , United States , and Australia . With them they brought their history , language , culture , and recipes . Although they are English ; they prefer to be known as Cornish people . Their Food : The people of Pen Argyl are known for making two of their most popular Cornish dishes : Saffron Buns ( or Saffron Cake ), and their Cornish Pasties ( sometimes called English Pasties ) ; which is beef ( cubed or ground beef ) , onions , and diced - cubed potatoes ; stuffed in a half - folded pastry pie crust . They also like making Rhubarb Pie . Pen Argyl is the home of the famous " Mr. Pasties " pasty shop , where they make the pasties homemade ; home of " Weona Park " (pronounced : we - own - a - park )and its carousel . —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.130.17.219 (talk) 23:13, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

This is the Wikipedia reference desk. Do you have a question? If not, you're probably lost. We have an article on Pen Argyl here. Algebraist 23:24, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

I have copied the info onto the talk page there. 205... if you'd like to add this information to the article, find sources (references) in reliable books or magazines. Put that source in < source > into the text you are adding in the edit window. It will show up as a footnote. Good luck with your edit. --71.236.23.111 (talk) 02:10, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Pen Argyl is much better known these days for being the final resting place of Jayne Mansfield. Check out the photo of her tombstone in her article. --NellieBly (talk) 03:32, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

May 29

Name for belief about acquiring attributes

I'm trying to think of the general name for the belief that consuming something will bring the consumer the attributes of that thing. For instance, if you consume the sexual organs of a tiger, you will be virile, or that if you consume a turtle you will be slow. Ring any bells? -- Beland (talk) 00:49, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

James George Frazer in The Golden Bough calls it "sympathetic magic", or, more specifically, the branch of that magic he calls "homeopathic magic" or "imitative magic", the other being "contagious magic". (That book is on line at Gutenberg and is a must-read for anyone interested in stuff like this.) He proposes that one of the two principles on which magic is based is that like produces like. --Milkbreath (talk) 01:08, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

See also the article Chinese medicine[13] for brief intro and article Sympathetic magic. Great link by the way MB, Julia Rossi (talk) 01:25, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Voodoo?

When a villain can only be killed if a certain object is destroyed, eg in Lord of the rings, Sauron dies if the One Ring is destroyed; the genie Jafar dies if his lamp is destroyed; and in Harry Potter, Voldemort dies if all his horcruxes, which contain pieces of his soul, are destroyed. Is there a word for this objecting being more than just standing for, (apart from effigy) the villain? Julia Rossi (talk) 01:39, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Would "soul vessel" or "icon" fit the bill?--71.236.23.111 (talk) 01:52, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

How about phylactery?--Lenticel ^(talk) 02:07, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

That looks like a medicine bag to me. --71.236.23.111 (talk) 02:27, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

They all sound like it. I'll put those in a see also at the end of the article and maybe a section with links. Thanks for your help. Julia Rossi (talk) 04:23, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

You are no doubt aware that "phylactery" is a word in its own right having nothing to do with all this, borrowed without permission for the obscure fictional mumbo-jumbo. Frazer could come up with nothing better than "soul-box" (p. 680) to contain the "external soul". Incidentally. in poking around I discovered what I think I used to know, that the "Host" of the Eucharist is not the same word as the ordinary "host" but instead derives from the Latin for "sacrifice". I was hoping it would have to do with "hosting" the soul or something of Christ, but no. --Milkbreath (talk) 10:58, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Katschei is also famous for this. 134.96.105.72 (talk) 08:16, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

<nitpick alert> Sauron doesn't die. He is just rendered impotent (Viagra endorsement time?). </nitpick alert> Clarityfiend (talk) 16:06, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Tin Woodman

Why would the Tin Woodman in the Wizard of Oz be replaced by a snake in Hindu countries? Just curious, not wanting formal legal advice. :) Abeg92contribs 03:17, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

This is a very interesting question. I've had a good trawl round via Google, but the only sites that assert this look like WP:Mirrors; I can't find anything that looks independent or gives any explanation of why this would be the case.

The information appears to have been added by User:Woggly in this diff [14] four years ago. Since they are still an active contributor, I've dropped a note on their talk page asking if they can help shed any more light on the matter. -- Karenjc 12:26, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Who is this writer?

I remember reading on the internet about some author who cranked out science fiction books (by dictation) at a rate of about one every week and a half. Supposedly they were full of filler, including a long tooth-brushing scene. Also, he was said to be the most prolific science fiction writer ever. I can't remember the name! Argh! 98.199.17.3 (talk) 03:20, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

I believe that Isaac Asimov was the most prodigious, however I don't know that his works are "full of filler" nor am I aware that he dictated his work. Wikiant (talk) 12:43, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Philip K. Dick wrote a lot. However, he was rather crazy and was writing more to write than to create science fiction. In his worst states, I would not be surprised if he wrote an entire story about brushing teeth. In his better states, he created the foundation of many great stories. -- kainaw™ 13:02, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Not L. Ron Hubbard, by any chance? --Richardrj ^{talk email} 13:13, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Sounds a bit dubious. A book every week and a half works out to just under 35 a year. Over say 20 years, that's nearly 700. Asimov (a freak, or an alien, or a whole gaggle of aliens) is considered by many to be the most prolific science-fiction author. By comparison, he wrote just over 500 books, not all science fiction, over a much longer period. Now it's possible for somebody to write drivel and call it science fiction, but would it be published? I think not. Clarityfiend (talk) 13:34, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

I have heard this before - the toothbrushing scene story is very familiar. I did wonder whether it might be John Creasey, who is known for his prolific output (well over 600 books) under a variety of names and who was capable of writing a short pulp novel (35,000 words) overnight. He's best known as a thriller writer, but he did write SF too. There's also Kenneth Bulmer. However, I have a niggling feeling it's another name, and one I ought to remember. Will keep looking. --Karenjc 17:28, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Relation

Is Colin Campbell Ross related to John Campbell Ross? Interactive Fiction Expert/Talk to me 06:23, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Question!

Who were the most barbaric: Vikings, Goths, Mongols or Huns? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.121.93.179 (talk) 09:05, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

That is a very subjective question, and not very useful as a question about history; to the monks of Lindisfarne, the Vikings were pretty barbaric, but the inhabitants of thirteenth century Baghdad would argue that the Mongols were the most barbarous. But what about all their good qualities, their civilization, their contributions to humanity? All of them founded extensive empires and had literature and art. Does that make them less barbaric? Adam Bishop (talk) 09:23, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

As usual the answer depends on who wrote the book you're reading. Romans are great because the beat "barbaric" tribes into shaping their empire. Moguls are "barbaric" because they beat "great" nations to shape their empire (?!)--71.236.23.111 (talk) 18:49, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Simple Question .... Long answer

This is not supposed to offend anyone but I have a feelinbg it might. The other day I was sitting with my partner watching a program about Steven Hawking and his wonderful theories. Then, my partner said to me,' so if this is true, it blows Christianity away and the creation of the world in seven days...' I have a huge amount of respect for both religion and science but I couldn't help feeling my partner had won me over on this one. Any ideas? Kirk UK —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.82.79.175 (talk) 17:27, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

The short answer is that Christianity doesn't depend on the world being created in seven days. Most Christians take the passage describing that as being theological rather than scientific. DJ Clayworth (talk) 17:30, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

7 days doesnt necessarily refer to 7 literal days. = ) --Cameron (T|C) 17:52, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

It only blows Christianity away if one assumes that the point of the Bible is to relay historical fact. I can similarly "blow away" the program you were watching by pointing out that Steven Hawking is three-dimensional and composed (principally) of carbon, while in the program you were watching he was a two-dimensional arrangement of photons. Of course, this misses the point that the program was meant to portray Steven Hawking's ideas, not to physically represent him. Wikiant (talk) 18:01, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Hang on, seven days is seven days surely? Seven phases I can understand as being interpreted in many different ways but seven days equals seven blocks of twenty four hours. If not, then why say seven days? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.82.79.175 (talk) 18:22, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

During the program, would you have thought it odd if someone had pointed to the TV and said, "That's Steven Hawking"? It seems a straightforward statement -- surely, Steven Hawking is Steven Hawking. But it wasn't Steven Hawking; it was an image. In fact, the point of the program wasn't that the image was or was not Steven Hawking. The point was the information the program was trying to get across -- Hawking (or his image) was merely a vehicle for the information. Similarly, the specific words in the Bible are vehicles for transmitting an idea -- the idea is that (1) God is the source of all things; (2) God loves us. Wikiant (talk) 18:34, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

In other words, ceci n'est pas une semaine? Deor (talk) 18:44, 29 May 2008 (UTC)