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Errors in the summary of the featured article

Please do not remove this invisible timestamp. See WT:ERRORS and WP:SUBSCRIBE. - Dank (push to talk) 01:24, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

Errors in "Did you know ..."

We must play this!

... that the creators of Poetry for Neanderthals faced difficulties during its release because they needed a way to manufacture inflatable clubs?

The rule of the game is that you must use words with just one sound and so we should do this. Ug!

They had a way to make the clubs – send a wish to the land of the Chin who make them all. And this is what they did. They just had to send more than one wish to fill the need. Duh!

Here is an ALT:

• ALT – In a new crude game, "all of your small wrongs can ... end up with a smack round the head"? (Source)

'drew🐉(talk) 06:26, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

I get your thoughts on this one, but I'm scared that the ALT might sound too much like fluff :) is there an ALT that makes one sound on each word but keeps the same fact? theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 06:29, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

For what it's worth, we could just stick with what we've got, as I think it's not too bad. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 06:35, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

You do not get it. The hook is wrong. They had a way and they used it. 'drew🐉(talk) 06:41, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

It says they faced difficulties, it doesn't say they were completely unable to manufacture the clubs. That's correct, and I suggest we leave it as it is. Also, it's a little ironic, Andrew, that after this, you're now advocating for an unattributed quote as part of the hook ☺  — Amakuru (talk) 08:54, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

That was just off the top of my head. I plan to pick up a copy to bring to the next meet. We shall see who has the most hard head! See here how it goes... 'drew🐉(talk) 10:09, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

Is a four-year-old game really "new"? And I'm not sure newness is "a definite fact that is unlikely to change", since even if it is still new, it eventually will stop being new.

In any case, I'll admit to feeling surprised that the original hook doesn't involve the No! Stick or the central monosyllabic mechanic. But that's a preference, not an error. I agree that difficulty is not the same as inability.

More tangentially, while I get and appreciate the bit, calling China "land of the Chin" reads... weirdly. Hydrangeans (she/her | talk | edits) 09:26, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

•  Not done this is not an error. RoySmith (talk) 10:08, 2 September 2024 (UTC)

Errors in the summary of the featured list

Friday's FL

(September 6)

Monday's FL

(September 2, today)

Errors in the summary of the featured picture

Notice to administrators: When fixing POTD errors, please update the corresponding regular version (i.e. without "protected" in the page title) in addition to the Main Page version linked below.

General discussion

Why "did you know?"

The DYK section of the Main Page is populated with the newest content. Given Wikipedia's already exhaustive nature, any new content is always going to be obscure and little-known. So the answer to 'did you know?' is always going to be a depressingly overwhelming 'No'. The title 'Did you know?' implies interesting facts which you might not know but would be pleased and fascinated to be told. By contrast, Wikipedia's DYK section is obscure and trivial by design. Might there be a more appropriate title for it? It rather smacks of sarcasm and satire to sincerely ask readers whether they knew that Général de Brigade Henri Vanwaetermeulen began his career in the French Army as a private soldier (a random example from today's DYK). —Noiratsi (talk) 10:17, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Good point: Maybe a better title would be “You may not know this, but…”. OTOH maybe, in English, “Did you know” is shorthand for just that. Interesting argument, Moonraker12 (talk) 14:23, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

The MP is a 'lucky dip bag' - and 'DYK' is short for 'You may not know - but may be interested to find out that...' (and it would have been amusing to have a link to watermelons near Vanwaetermeulen). 80.254.147.68 (talk) 14:51, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

"Given Wikipedia's already exhaustive nature, any new content is always going to be obscure and little-known." Didn't we just have a DYK from a brand new article for "cup" just a few weeks ago? --Khajidha (talk) 17:17, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Did you knows come not just from newly written articles, but also newly expanded articles and (as of a few months ago) articles just promoted at GAC. This means that we do occasionally get very high-traffic articles at DYK, but I agree with Noiratsi that it's perhaps not the best title. J Milburn (talk) 17:27, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

Indeed we do, for example Silver Cross Tavern got almost 200,000 views when it appeared on DYK. Proof that DYK is definitely not just a collection of facts that one might have a passing interest on. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 16:29, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

It's simply a snappy name to apply to a section designed to showcase the newest content added to the wiki, in the form of easily digestible interesting trivia. I don't have a problem with the name at all, to be honest. --Connelly90 17:29, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

A new title would be change for the sake of change.Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 18:24, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

I don't see any problem with the existing title. It's not meant to be taken literally. No one is expected to run down the list answering "No, No, No, ..." 86.151.118.96 (talk) 03:17, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

The expected answer is "No, but I will check it out." or "No, and I don't care." or "Yes, good that Wikipedia also knows it!" Maybe the title could be changed, but I don't see an overwhelming reason why. I don't oppose it, but a good title must be found. --Con^structor 16:31, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

Totally agree with OP. It's condescending to the max as it is. Aaadddaaammm (talk) 04:22, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

I can see there's people on both sides. Myself I'm divided too; I can see why 'DYK' is an okay title, but at the same time it still strikes me as far from perfect every time I see it on the MP. I wonder would it be better or worse if it were simply titled "From Wikipedia's new and recently improved content"? At the moment that line is rather awkwardly placed as a sort of cross between an aside and a subtitle. —Noiratsi (talk) 11:01, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

I've got it! Let's call it "What if I told you that..." (WITYT) or maybe "Consider that...". Maybe something else, but WITYT is very catchy, in my opinion.მაLiphradicusEpicusთე 08:43, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

Probably because it reminds you of the Morpheus meme.[1] —howcheng {chat} 18:22, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

Maybe that's it, ha-ha! In any case though, most of the facts on the DYK page really are facts that the average person wouldn't have any clue about. მაLiphradicusEpicusთე 18:19, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

I think 'Did you know' sort of indicates obscurity in it's connotation. I wouldn't talk to somebody and say 'Did you know...' about something most people knew. It's generally used linguistically to prepare someone for information they did not know. If it's information they may know you'd be more likely to say 'Of course, ...' or 'Well, you know that...' or 'As you know...' Zkbt (talk) 17:23, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

I think "Did you know" is fine. It's metaphorical and not meant to question one's knowledge. However, since it's a collection of supposedly interesting factoids, "Believe it or not..." could be an alternative. cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 20:21, 27 March 2014 (UTC)

"Believe it or not..." may be quite nice; it makes me think of Ripley's Believe It Or Not! Also, I understand the metaphorical principle of DYK; I can see how that, in practical speech, we normally only say "Did you know..." before we tell someone information we have recently found out and think is pretty neat. Based on this, I could see the title of "Did you know..." being a "trivia" section that's wanting you to find out the information and tell your friends, "Hey man, did you know that...?" So either way I find okay. მაLiphradicusEpicusთე

Recent Deaths

Khushwant Singh should be mentioned in recent deaths. He was a major Indian author who wrote numerous influential books. Besides, it seems much too Eurocentric. JDiala (talk) 02:55, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

I wasn't aware Phelps was a closet european; that aside, WP:ITN/C (which is where this should go) has already been discussing Singh's passing. The hurdle to getting it posted is the poor state of the article itself rather than any concern over notability. GRAPPLE X 02:59, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

It was posted briefly, but justifiable concern over the state of the article caused it to be pulled. If any person wants to fix the problems already noted in the article, it will be posted to RD within minutes of the fixes being made. All one has to do is fix the problems. --Jayron32 03:03, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Pine Tavern

It may be the oldest restaurant in Oregon, but the article reads like one giant advert. What do the DYK team actually check? Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 14:31, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Totally agree. I see zero EV in this article or DYK blurb. The Pine Tavern may be a charming establishment in the charming tourist town of Bend (to which I've been several times), but this is free advertising. Sca (talk) 15:50, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Here's another zero EV DYK blurb on the main page that took one of the most interesting areas of science today, the evolutionary biology of the Liliaceae, a major plant family, and turned it into another article completely, the tulip trade article.

... that when the tulip trade reached Antwerp in Belgium in 1562, they were mistaken as vegetables?

Except, tulip is not linked to the tulip trade article, the DYK is about the Liliaceae, a fascinating group of plants, and botanists have made major advances in the understanding of this huge plant family, its evolutionary relationships, and how this relates to the spread of angiosperms, the diversification of the monocots and modern plant ecosystems. But we have a DYK that conveys nothing about this fascinating subject, and is a bad link when there already is an article about the tulip trade. DYK the most boring thing about the Liliaceae is already written up in another article?

I don't think the DYK team have the interest to check much of anything. --AfadsBad (talk) 18:27, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

But you do, so you can be that difference! Welcome to the team! --Demiurge1000 (talk) 20:14, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Being that difference would be removing a bad DYK from the main page, and that is impossible. Errors are largely ignored. DYK editors fight you when you point out mistakes, then removing your comments about the problems with the DYK articles from the template, so the articles can be promoted without the errors being corrected. Meanwhile the bad article, to which editors are indifferent, is copied into cyberspace permanently. Like the 50,000 google hits I got for a misspelled plant family. Be that difference would require that Wikipedia be able to correct errors and have editors who welcomed editors who could point out errors. Correcting them gets too many nasty comments. So, no, being that difference does not seem likely in a hostile editing environment. At some point, though, editors ought to care how bad Wikipedia looks when it makes silly DYK quotes. There are other problems with this quote, besides the offense of dismissing the interesting evolutionary science. --(AfadsBad (talk) 20:32, 24 March 2014 (UTC))

I'd be interested to see how many ERRORS report against TFA, TFP, TFL, ITN and DYK. It feels like every single day I see someone noting a serious (i.e. pull it off the main page) issue with a DYK article. Because DYK offers a quid pro quo review structure, it's clearly always a conflict of interest to "sanction" a DYK because it means that your own DYK will be more likely to be "sanctioned". Anyone fancy doing some analysis of ERRORS? The Rambling Man (talk) 20:56, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

It's often pointless to report an error with DYK, because they rotate quicker than the typical admin response time. I've lost count of the number of times I pointed out a problem with a DYK blurb only for it to rotate off the MP without any action being taken. These days I don't bother looking at it, let alone reporting mistakes. Modest Genius ^talk 00:10, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

And then the ignored errors are in the articles forever, they sit on the DYK templates, they're prominent as a hook on the top of article talk pages. Why not make a place for them, a category at least, "Articles that appeared on the main page with errors?" The interesting thing would be to tally how many times WikiCup racers contributed to errors. Maybe getting articles on the main page and winning contests on Wikipedia will eventually require accuracy.

Every time someone just moves an uncorrected error off of the main page, they are accepting that article as it is, approving an error. The main page is read by many editors who don't edit Wikipedia. One of my office mates used to post corrections about errors, but her error reports were always ignored, the mistakes staying in the articles for years. The errors are never repaired, as far as I can tell, no matter how bad they are, such as a hook that redefined Tunicates--it was nonsense, yet it was on the main page. Of course, it's not only the main page where errors remain uncorrected--I corrected a misspelling of a plant family name that sat on en.Wikipedia for 7 years, and had generated 50,000 Google hits of the misspelling. Errors that hit the main page are bad. They need corrected in the article, on the template, everywhere they occur. Too bad getting them off of the main page while creating an accurate encyclopedia is so much lower in priority than making quick repartee at ANI. --(AfadsBad (talk) 23:41, 25 March 2014 (UTC))

The error is usually in the blurb, rather than the article per se. Modest Genius ^talk 23:56, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

Sometimes it is in both. Should I be more or less worried that DYK editors can't read their own articles well enough to write an accurate blurb from them? --(AfadsBad (talk) 00:35, 26 March 2014 (UTC))

Another one

The main page says, "DYK ... that the moss species Chorisodontium aciphyllum can survive for more than 1,500 years frozen?"

The article did not make this conclusion, it discussed that a single group of scientists is making this claim based on results of an experiment that grew the plants once from one moss core. But en.Wikipedia is reporting this primary research as established fact.

Must be WikiCup season again, time to avoid the main page. --(AfadsBad (talk) 18:37, 27 March 2014 (UTC))

MH370

In the "In the news" section, it says Malaysia Airlines announced the Flight 370 crashed, but there's not certainty of that; it should say that Malaysia officials announced that it is presumed to have crashed. Sam.gov (talk) 17:40, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

No, the announcement by the officials was more definitive than that. They did not say "We presume the plane crashed". They announced "The plane crashed". See [2] where the official states "As you will hear in the next hour from Malaysia's Prime Minister, we must now accept all evidence suggests the plane went down in the Southern Indian Ocean" --Jayron32 17:45, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

They do not know. They assume, but that is a far cry from knowing. As my dad used to say, never assume anything. It only makes an ASS out of U and ME. We can say that they report this, but to put it out there as fact is stupid. Arzel (talk) 20:09, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, I've thought this through too, the plane could have descended at 600mph vertically, or attempted to land on the surface of the sea, we just don't know. This euphemistic "went down" or "was lost" etc is unhelpful. Still, right now we have "crashed" which is probably right, although the rush to get this posted is a little coarse, we still don't know what happened, but yet we use the main page of the world's biggest encyclopaedia to predict it. Still WP:V trumps truth, remember? The Rambling Man (talk) 21:00, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

It's worth remembering (at least in the current version and from the first comment I assume the initial one) we aren't actually saying the plane crashed in wikivoice. We're saying that they announced it crashed. We can never be wrong about this if they did make the annoucement.

While Dyspeptic skeptic is true the primary public annoucement came from the PM, I don't even think it's wrong to claim the Malaysian Airlines also annouced that since they made public their statement to the families [3] (currently on page 2).

Some may feel saying the PM announced is better but while that's a valid issue for discussion, it's seperate.

The only other issues are whether we should put the announcement with nothing else and whether the announcement is significant enough to be on ITN for both. I say yes to both. The announcement is a very significant development and there's nothing credible suggesting it's wrong, as much as families (or really most people in the world who know about it) may understandably wish it were otherwise so no reason to mention anything else.

The only real other possible quibble I can imagine relates to what TRM mention namely whether 'went down' or 'ended' and 'crashed' mean the same thing.

I've often suggested we shouldn't be in too much of a rush to mention stuff even if clearly true and well supported if it may change soon. But I don't consider that applies here. Even if it turns out against all odds that they were wrong, this is the sort of stuff it's fine for us to mention.

P.S. in case it's unclear, it would actually be more wrong for us to say they announced it's "presumed" to have whatever, since they didn't use that wording.

Nil Einne (talk) 20:55, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

While the families of those aboard the plane were informed privately, in private (or by email, reportedly) earlier, the announcement to the public wasn't made by Malaysia Airlines or any officials, it was made by the prime minister of Malaysia. The word he used is ended. Why not attribute the announcement to him and use the same word, in double quotes? Dyspeptic skeptic (talk) 23:17, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

This stuff is decided at Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates. You may want add to discussions there. HiLo48 (talk) 23:42, 24 March 2014 (UTC)