Talk:Main Page

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Administrators: Clear all reports

Errors in the summary of the featured article

Please do not remove this invisible timestamp. See WT:ERRORS and WP:SUBSCRIBE. - Dank (push to talk) 01:24, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

Errors in "Did you know ..."

Current DYK

• The last hook: ... that the U.S. Army Air Corps were so unimpressed by the Estoppey D-8 that one member stated that he would rather use "nails and a wire"?
  In American English, that would be "was" instead of were. But the hook also anthropomorphizes the Corps. I'd recommend something like ... that some members of the U.S. Army Air Corps were so unimpressed by the Estoppey D-8 that one stated [... etc.] MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 23:16, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

   Done Schwede66 02:23, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Errors in the summary of the featured list

Friday's FL

(May 24)

Monday's FL

(May 27)

Errors in the summary of the featured picture

Notice to administrators: When fixing POTD errors, please update the corresponding regular version (i.e. without "protected" in the page title) in addition to the Main Page version linked below.

Today's POTD

That Belgian castle - should change "The Tudor-style castle..." (unreffed in the article) to "The Renaissance Revival castle..." There is nothing Tudor at all about the style, which relates to more local Renaissance architecture. Johnbod (talk) 01:22, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

 Fixed Now whilst I'm not an expert on architectural styles at all, this indeed does not look like Tudor to me. Schwede66 02:26, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

General discussion

In the News

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

It seems fairly moribund, with items appearing on a very slow timescale (and lingering for a lot longer) compared to anything else on the page. On the other hand, as it is relatively recent, it's uniquely compelling, so there's certainly some merit to it. Is there anything we could do about it? Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 00:48, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

I invite you to make nominations or participate in discussions at the candidates page if you would like to change what is posted. 331dot (talk) 00:55, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

I doubt adding a single new person is a viable solution to a long-standing issue. Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 02:06, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

So since you're not willing to actually suggest any other stories which should be added, your complaint is actually "not enough news is happening in the world"? ‑ iridescent 08:52, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

I can't even determine if this is a complaint! The Rambling Man (talk) 08:54, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

(To Adam) We can only consider the nominations that we are given. If you are unwilling to participate then I'm not sure of the purpose of your original statement. It takes users participating to change what is posted, no more, no less. One person can indeed make a difference. 331dot (talk) 11:10, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

Even if I personally did as much work as every other person currently participating combined, that would only double the rate of update, and would still mean ITN was updating far too slow to be acceptable for a main page. That categorically isn't a solution. So, are there actual suggestions, or should we open a vote about taking it off the main page, or turning it into a once-weekly item? Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 21:43, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

As I'm sure you know, I'd be all in favour of removing ITN from the main page, but bitching that there's not enough news in the world is just ridiculous. If you want something different to appear in ITN, just nominate it—it takes all of two minutes. ‑ iridescent 22:03, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

You don't have to shout to be heard. Ease up on the bolding. I also disagree that ITN is "far too slow to be acceptable for a main page." It is not a news ticker. It is meant to showcase good articles that are currently in the news. That being said, since you brought this up, do you have any suggestions, or is this just a rant? Isa (talk) 22:10, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

Apart from nominating new stories, you can also support existing nominations and improve nominated articles which get opposition due to article quality. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:36, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

ITN is not supposed to update quickly, it is not a news ticker or newspaper. We occasionally get slow stretches (like right now) and stretches where there is high turnover. It all depends on what it is in the news and if the relevant articles are updated and if a nomination is made. Again, we can only consider what we are given. If you want to see something listed, nominate it. If you don't like what is posted but yet don't want to participate, I'm even more puzzled by the purpose of this discussion. If you have an agenda opposed to ITN, you don't need us to validate it or give you ideas; you are free to propose whatever you wish. It seems unfair to propose abolition when you are unwilling to participate. 331dot (talk) 22:46, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposal: Remove WP:In the news from the main page.

I think it's clear that there's not going to be any progress with In the News improving. Indeed, checking Wikipedia:In_the_news/Candidates shows that even highly notable news, like the NASA discoveries about flowing water on Mars, or the college shooting in Oregon are being actively rejected, in a column, that, I will point out, updates only every one to two days. The main page doesn't need dead weight, it's slightly too long as it is. Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 10:29, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Support

1. Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 10:29, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Oppose

• Strong Oppose. The user proposing this doesn't seem to understand that ITN is not supposed to be updated frequently because it is not a newspaper or news ticker; they also refuse to participate in nomination discussions but yet seem to disagree with the consensuses reached there. One disagreeing with the consensuses reached at ITNC shouldn't mean that the whole thing needs to go away. (What you consider 'highly notable' may not be by others, that's the whole point of discussion and reaching consensus.) Further, ITN has no control over what is in the news , which sometimes results in slow periods. The user proposing this doesn't even really say what 'improvements' they want to see.(post articles on a regular basis without adequate updates?) Calling it "dead weight" is also mildly offensive to those who put in much time there, especially coming from someone who refuses to do so. People who dislike what is posted or who dislike the frequency of postings need to participate. 331dot (talk) 10:59, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
• With respect Adam, this comment seems to misunderstand what ITN actually is. ITN doesn't update as often as you might like for a reason—because articles need to be of sufficient quality for the main page before they're put in bold face, above the fold, which as you'll know is prime footfall for a Wikipedia article. There is as yet no auditing process for these articles, unlike even the DYK section, so we need to be extra careful. Plus, Wikipedia's reach is worldwide, so we need to be more careful still to pick articles which are relevant to this range. — foxj 13:53, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose I firmly dislike the coverage of 'current events' articles on Wikipedia but unless and until we establish a broad consensus to stay away from such things I think we need a way to highlight quality articles of this type for our readers. Jbh^Talk 14:00, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose – ITN is a Main Page fixture that probably attracts more readers than any other. I understand the basic contradiction between the immediacy of news and the hypothetical permanence of encyclopedic content – and the friction this often produces – but I don't think it would enhance Wiki's appeal or Web presence to banish ITN it to some tangential realm. Sca (talk) 14:37, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose I fail to see how removing this will improve the main page. HighInBC 14:56, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Discussion was NAC closed at this point, after less than 4 1/2 hours and 4 !votes. Although all the votes were "oppose" that is not sufficient to support a snow close, so I have re-opened it, as a non-admin action. BMK (talk) 21:24, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose I do not think this is a good idea, and is certainly not necessary. BMK (talk) 21:24, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

• oppose WP is not a newspaper, but the section serves the useful purposes of both connecting WP to current events and helping the curious find more on the topic and related ones. I.e. it shows it are not just an encyclopaedia of obscure and historic information. If the proposer thinks it should be improved then participate in ITN. But no, do not delete it just because you don’t like it.--JohnBlackburne^words_deeds 21:39, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose in these circumstances. I do believe that a decluttering of the main page is long overdue and that serious thought should be given as to whether ITN, DYK, TFA and OTD really need to remain as separate sections, but this proposal appears to be based solely on one editor's misreading of what the purpose of ITN is, and a complaint that it isn't currently doing something it was never intended to do. Noting in passing that re-opening this discussion is one of the more pointless applications of process-for-the-sake-of-process that I've seen recently. ‑ iridescent 04:24, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose - The argument being invoked here is a petitio principii, asserting that "highly notable" news like the "Oregon shooting" is rejected by WP:ITN not because the news lacks lasting notability, but because the system is broken. A simple investigation of the discussions that take place for these news stories would shoot this premise down in an instant, leaving this proposal baseless.--WaltCip (talk) 14:33, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose ITN does not operate on a quota system, and I don't see any value of removing it from the front page. Removing it to a different spot maybe, but not altogether. It often gives newly created articles of high importance exposure, that is ultimately a good thing. Slow news days doesn't change this fact.--109.149.136.105 (talk) 16:30, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Discussion

• This was closed while I was typing this, but since it isn't really a support or oppose !vote I hope people won't have a problem with me adding it. In principle, I support the idea of ITN, which is why I don't want to support this idea. Many of our readers are looking for topical items, and ITN is the one place on the Main Page that consistently provides them. However, I don't believe the process is working as well as it could, and frankly share some of Adam's concerns. The section does seem too static at times; for example, the oldest item currently up is 11 days old, and this is hardly an isolated occurrence. More concerning to me is that the crowd at ITN often confine their supports to certain groups of news items (natural disasters, elections, sports etc.), which leaves the process dependent on those things actually being in the news. If they aren't, it's very hard to get other items through, and there doesn't seem to be any flexibility to adjust the standards for posting depending on recent activity (such as considering something like the Oregon shooting more seriously during an otherwise slow time). This proposal didn't gain a consensus for removal, but I hope that ITN will think about what it wants to be, with the inherent contradiction that Sca mentioned above. Also, don't dismiss the opinions of outsiders out of hand. We can offer insights from a unique perspective, and having to deal with outside opinion is part of the responsibility of appearing on the Main Page; don't ever have your process be so set in its ways that it is unwilling to consider improvements. Giants2008 (Talk) 15:24, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Let me add that I'm familiar with Adam Cuerden's fine work elsewhere, and I don't think he would propose something "in bad faith," as Isanae suggests above. Sca (talk) 15:38, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

He seems to be unfamiliar with the ITN raison d'être and process and have no interest in learning about it. He ignored the answers in the discussion he started just above and started a proposal about a major part of the main page that had no chance to pass. The whole thing sounds like a rhetorical rant with no real expectation of results. That is bad faith to me. Isa (talk) 15:45, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

That being said, it was unfair of me to have written this in the archive box. Closes should be neutral. I'm striking this part and apologize, but I still stand by what I wrote. Isa (talk) 15:54, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

If yopu cannoot close it neutrally you shouldn't be closing it at all. Closes shopuld ionly be done by a neutral party, not someone wanting to shut down someone who disagrees with them. Seriously. 'I contest the closure. Seriously, you're going to close the thing with a personal attack and a statement saying that any debate on the subject is forbidden, admit you were wrong to throw around personal attacks - but keep them in, just crossed out, then claim I'm the one acting in bad faith here? Really? That's how this debate works?

I asked for comments on why ITN would be justified for the main page. Instead I got personal attacks for stating that I didn't think throwing my efforts into something I felt had severe problems would help - and literally no defense of the process itself, merely attacks for not joining the process. You claim I din't listen to what was said above? There was literally not a single thing in there but personal attacks on people who didn't work on ITN. That's not a defense of the process, that's a reason to shut down the process as a toxic, harmful environment.

And all that on the back of a question that sought to fix the issues I see in it. All it did was convince me that it couldn't be fixed, that any attempts to fix it were misguided, because even raising issues would be met with personal attacks. . Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 17:23, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

I don't recall seeing a statement from you about specifically what your concerns about the process are- and since you do not wish to participate I'm not sure on what knowledge you base those concerns. As stated already, you seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of what ITN is and how it operates. I do sincerely apologize if you took my comments as a personal attack, that was not my intention, and I do not question your good faith on this matter, but I think you have some things wrong here. 331dot (talk) 18:46, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

@Giants2008: I welcome any and all opinions about possible improvements, but I don't recall seeing any concerns offered by Adam. I welcome outside opinions, but they must be based on what ITN actually is currently. It isn't meant to be updated frequently as Adam seems to think it should be, for example, and based on their comments they seem to want to abolish it simply because they don't agree with what is posted or the frequency- both of which can be improved through participation instead of radical changes or abolition. 331dot (talk) 19:02, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Note that this discussion has been brought up at ANI. I will not contribute to it further. Isa (talk) 17:49, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

I have re-opened the discussion on the basis of comments at AN/I, including my own. BMK (talk) 21:25, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

• So I can close it now? Drmies (talk) 21:47, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

• At 6 1/2 hours and 6 !votes? Eh... maybe you should wait a bit more? BMK (talk) 23:40, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

• Wrong venue for this kind of decision, and wrong approach. If ITN isn't working well, then address that, in multiple places (here, Village Pump, Signpost, etc.). ITN is still functioning, and as long as there is some participation and it is factual, accurate, and neutral, there is no call for an immediate summary execution. Softlavender (talk) 03:53, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

• While I reserve judgement on the substantive question, I do find it strange that some items hang around for an inordinate length of time, and others never make it to ITN, especially when DYK updates so regularly. I appreciate that ITN has a specific raison d'etre, but maybe that should be rethought after so many years. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 14:35, 4 October 2015 (UTC).
  

Landmark 5M articles

Not sure where to raise this, but anybody has a neat idea how to celebrate the future 5M'th article? Nergaal (talk) 19:30, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Village pump (miscellaneous)#Logo question. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:04, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Remove 1:10 radio-controlled off-road buggy

1:10 radio-controlled off-road buggy is too poorly formed to be on the Main Page. 203.173.186.163 (talk) 17:59, 4 October 2015 (UTC)