User talk:MONGO

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This is the talkpage of the notorious MONGO! Leave me a message if you dare!

A bowl of strawberries for you!

Having slept on things and cooled off a bit, I think the reaction to your !vote was a little unfair. While I still don't fully agree with your reasoning, in hindsight, it probably was not a revenge !vote after all. Hopefully we can put this dispute behind us. AutomaticStrikeout (T • C • AAPT) 17:50, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

I withdrew my opposition...I don't expect Wizardman to answer my perhaps pointy questions there, but they are what I should have posted in the first place as that may have better explained why I would either support or oppose. It just so happens that the Never vote was at my Rfa, but the point is as a crat he would consider such a vote a viable one that might go towards a hard consensus count and if so, I don't think he should be a crat no matter whose Rfa a Never vote may be on.--MONGO 17:55, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Hey there

How did your RfA go? I was unaware of it. I hope you got your mop and bucket back, there's a clean-up needed on Aisle 6 ... Phoenix and Winslow (talk) 02:04, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Nope I did not, and never will...but thanks for asking. Have not heard from you in a long time...hope all is well.--MONGO 02:24, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Apology

Sorry about RFA, my mistake. -- KTC (talk) 20:47, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

No problem...--MONGO 23:02, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

People

Infoboxes on "long dead people", you write, are not served well by an infobox. Did you read articles about some? Franz Kafka, Michelangelo, Maria Theresa, you name them, - that's what I see ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:39, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Hi Gerda...yeah, they look fine, but I lean towards no infoboxes on bios of that nature since I think the article text can cover the issues. A couple FA's I was the primary on do not have an infobox. I think its a case by case thing and for some reason that isn't based on any policy or guideline, in the case of the Bach article and similar ones, I prefer no infobox. I wouldn't sweat it...nobody gives 2 hoots what I think anyway.--MONGO 19:13, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

I do ;) (care, I mean). I am new to the topic and try to understand. For example why someone phrases "impose an infobox" where I would just say "add an infobox". The sheer mentioning of the word seems to generate strong feelings in some users. Looking at FAs, 2 of the 10 scheduled for April have no infobox, one is a political movement, the other an opera. Did you know that an {{infobox opera}} is in the making? (Look at the example, for fun.) All bios of April have an infobox. - Looking at March: all 10 bios have an infobox, dead or alive. Keep looking! (Did you know that I have a history of fighting infoboxes? "My salad days ...") --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:48, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Nobody cares! MONGO just a pawn in the game of life! In order for me to change my mind, I have to have a mind to change!--MONGO 20:22, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Mind, look at the examples, for a change of mind (or at my talk, for the 1 April DYK) ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:27, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

(WP:TPS...) Mong and SuperMong, perhaps? Martinevans123 (talk) 20:33, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

The "MONGs"...are my cousins from across the sea...dim of wit but stout of heart.--MONGO 20:42, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Saw a movie about them not too long ago ... had Clint Eastwood in it. Was actually pretty good. "Get off my lawn!" I've felt like that around here a time or two. Antandrus (talk) 20:45, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Old Friedrich Wilhelm was only a lowly Number 10 (or was it even lowlier Number 5).. but he gets a booking all the same: [1] Martinevans123 (talk) 20:50, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Proof of the meaninglessness of being a mong.--MONGO 02:35, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Here are some cookies for you

	Here's a plate full of cookies to share!
	Hi MONGO, here are some delicious cookies to help brighten your day! However, there are too many cookies here for one person to eat all at once, so please share these cookies with at least two other editors by copying {{subst:Sharethecookies}} to their talk pages. Enjoy! Phoenix and Winslow (talk) 01:14, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Thank you very much!--MONGO 02:31, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

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Boston marathon bombings

Note to TPS'ers...Suspect #2 is Dzhokhar A. Tsarnaev....his brother, suspect #1 is dead

Re Fort Yellowstone Images

Mongo,

I don't see any excessive white space related to images for the Fort Yellowstone article on my laptop or Ipad --Mike Cline (talk) 16:44, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Hi Mike....um...neither do I...nor have I ever, even when we had the gallery up. I think galleries are generally considered undesirable for featured articles, we have had some featured articles that have them. There is a gallery of Grinnell Glacier I think in both the Retreat of glaciers since 1850 and the Glacier National Park (U.S.) articles which are both featured. I know the Fort Yellowstone article may seem like it is no longer mainly your effort, but it just seems that way I assure you. The research and body of the article and the message are all yours, and its an important storyline that even this old park ranger that used to work in Yellowstone, wasn't fully aware of. Kudos to you for educating so many.--MONGO 17:04, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Glacier National Park (U.S.) Was brought to FA by Elkman and I back in 2007 and I updated it in 2010 so it could be on the mainpage that year to commemorate the 100th anniversary of the founding of the park. Anyway, if you look in the section on glaciers, it has a gallery, but not in the standard format. The only real difference of note however, is that gallery is setup to provide a timeline of glacial retreat, showing how Grinnell Glacier has receded over time. So its not really just a random collection of images of buildings.--MONGO 18:58, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Comments left at RfA

Thank you for leaving comments at my RfA. This is just a friendly notice that I have replied to them. Regardless of your vote, and your decision to continue this conversation or not, I appreciate you taking your time to vote in the the first place. Cheers, --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 15:33, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Improper RfC closure at Talk:Ugg boots trademark disputes

Hello. There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Wayne (talk) 12:58, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Not sure how I'm involved...will check it out.--MONGO 13:21, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Wayne...you apparently edited the UGG Boots article after User:Phoenix and Winslow did...the two of you first met (I believe) on the Franklin child prostitution ring allegations 2 years ago. On the Franklin article, much of what you were protecting was fringe material..and it was stubbed out by User:NuclearWarfare...You were also protecting fringe material on the Kerry and Kay Danes article (which Jimbo Wales ended up stubbing out) and many years ago on 9/11 related articles, which is where you and I first met and in which I was one of those keeping as much fringe material out as possible. Now I see you have followed Phoenix and Winslow to both UGG Boots and the Tea party dramafest...thats not good at all. Are you aware of the issues regarding Wikihounding?--MONGO 03:50, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

If you check the history of Ugg boots you will see that I started editing in October 2010. Phoenix and Winslow edited two days later which would have been the first time that I knew he was also editing the article. Despite both of us editing frequently, the first time we actually interacted was on the Talk page in July 2011 when I replied to a post he wrote and there was no acrimony at all. The disputes first started in October 2011 when P&W objected to using the word "generic" in the article. Most editors opposed him so he posted the most insane personal attack against me that I've ever seen[2] in an attempt to discredit everyone who opposed him. That post was the first time either of us said a bad word about the other in that article. I remained completely civil in answering that post and did not "complain" about anything else P&W said until two days later and that was because he was refusing to accept consensus. You can check the link above for yourself. Being on the same article, treating them civilly for the first 12 months and then only starting to argue after they make an unwarranted attack on you, is that the behavior of a stalker?
I remind you that over 90% of my 911 edits are still in those 911 articles and that the 911Arbcom you filed against me found nothing wrong with my editing. Are you claiming to be a higher authority than Arbcom? Wayne (talk) 05:09, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

I'll look again at your talkpage archives, but I did not see any evidence I filed either an arbcom case or filed an arbcom enforcement action. Jehochman did...he apparently brought up your edits and I may have commented. It would be helpful if you could supply diffs showing where I filed and also help me see what that "insane" personal attack was that Phoenix lodged against you rather than the link to the entire talkpage archive. Here's what has to happen between you two: either work together collaboratively or be forced into an interaction ban. But I know I can speak for the community when I tell you that this multi-front, multi-year antagonistic relation between you and Phoenix is growing tiresome. It should also be of note to you that disruption of articles isn't limited to article space...the worst POV pushing is usually in talk pages...and that sort of thingn the promotion of fringe stuff greatly undermines the ability of good fatih editors to effectively improve any article.--MONGO 11:52, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

My mistake, it was filed by Jehochman. That investigation also looked at my talk page posts and found them reasonable. This is P&W's specific post, even you must admit that I never claimed Bush had prior knowledge. Wayne (talk) 15:31, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Okay...its always best to not get personal about other editors and Phoenix went overboard in that comment. What we need to do here is figure out a few things. Firstly...which one of you is or are either of you stalking each other. Secondly, if you two are showing up at places where the other is active with the sole purpose being to pick a fight, it needs to stop. Thirdly, if you can't stop, then the community will make you do so, either by way of an interaction ban, topic bans or other restrictions. So what do we have to do here...both of you know the way forward that is best to each of you and the pedia. Perhaps if you avoid the Tea Party articles, Phoenix will avoid the Ugg Boots articles...I don't know if that's a fair trade to both of you or not. Think about it.--MONGO 16:25, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

If you check the editing history of Franklin child prostitution ring allegations you will see that Phoenix and Winslow made his first edit to that article in January 2011, over three months after I first edited Ugg boots so I couldn't possibly have followed him from the Franklin article to Ugg boots. We had no arguments at Ugg boots until October 2011 after he made that post. He has since brought up the stubbing in every single unrelated content discussion. In regards to the Ward Churchill article, I edited the page in April 2009. P&W first edited it in April 2011. In regards to the Webster Tarpley and Anton Chaitkin articles, I did follow him but was justified in doing so. P&W had argued on the Franklin talk page that because the Tarpley and Chaitkin articles both claimed in their leads that they were conspiracy theorists, the Franklin article could say the Franklin accusations were also a conspiracy theory because Tarpley and Chaitkin both supported the accusations. I then went and had a look at both articles...and found that P&W himself had edited both articles hours earlier to include the claim, so I tagged both edits requesting cites. Other editors reverted both of P&W's edits the next day as BLP violations. P&W is leading you up the garden path about stalking. The real problem is his bringing up the stubbing of the Franklin and Danes articles and my 9/11 editing to discredit the editors whose side I take in disputes and which you keep helping him with. This has been brought up before three boards but all that happens is that an admin tells him it's a personal attack and that he is not to do it again. Then he keeps doing it. It was so blatant during the RfC that I thought he would be finally warned at the very least but again he gets away with it. Wayne (talk) 08:51, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

This isn't about who edited first...it about which one of you if either of you are following the other around the website. Now if he's adding material, especially to BLP's that needs a reference and you're simply adding citation needed tags, then that's not really an issue. The bottom line though is that you two seem to be at war across several article spaces and noticeboards...if you folks end up at arbcom, the arbitrators will look at everyones editing history...and sadly, it only takes a small fraction of diffs to cast a long shadow over even an overwhelming preponderance good contributions. The two of you need to decide what you're going to do to avoid further confrontations.--MONGO 13:45, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

You are missing the point. We were both editing Ugg boots and this was the first time we "met". I was already editing Franklin when P&W turned up there. This was after we edited Ugg boots so definitely no following anyone on my part. Did P&W follow me to Franklin? It's possible but unlikely. At the Tarpley and Chaitkin articles I tagged unsourced edits he made to those articles specifically so that he could cite the Tarpley and Chaitkin biographies to support a Franklin edit he made, so that doesn't count as stalking. The result? No stalking by anyone. Wayne (talk) 15:23, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Let me repeat...The bottom line though is that you two seem to be at war across several article spaces and noticeboards...so the two of you can either disengage or it will only get worse.--MONGO 15:42, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

I stopped editing Tea Party as soon as it was brought up. The Ugg articles are the only ones we both edit. I created the article so how can I not edit it anymore just because someone doesn't like me and decides to disrupt it. P&W's very first post on this article accused it of "trashing Deckers" and avoiding mention that Australian companies are "obviously mimicking Deckers" boots. There would not be any warring at all if he didn't make personal attacks. Wayne (talk) 16:28, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

MONGO, the sequence of events was fully detailed at the ANI thread, which has probably been archived already. I was already working steadily on the Ugg boots article in July-October 2010, and was also very active on the Talk page. On the afternoon of October 20, 2010 Wayne made some edits to the article mainspace, but then left immediately and didn't return for more than four months. We were two ships passing in the night. And for all practical purposes, he had moved on. I was still there. The head-on collision started in January and February, 2011 at the Franklin article, where he was on the other side in a content dispute. In March 2011 he returned to Ugg boots after an appearance one afternoon in October and an absence of over four months, on the other side in a content dispute. In April 2013 he showed up for the first time at any article about American politics: Tea Party movement, on the other side in a content dispute. If I was working on a larger number of articles or involved in a larger number of content disputes, or if I hadn't walked away from Wikipedia completely for about a year, I think it would have become obvious a lot sooner. Phoenix and Winslow (talk) 14:26, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

A case could be made then at arbitration...short and sweet with diffs and little conversation. Cases should be present with just the facts...avoid long diatribes about what you think...let the diffs speak for themselves...show the timeline/chain of events. The case should focus on the issue of wikihounding and fringe POV pushing.--MONGO 15:10, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Hey there. Guess what? Wayne is still Wikihounding me. [3] Remember when he said, "I stopped editing Tea Party as soon as it was brought up" on May 1? Well, he waited six weeks for the heat to die down, and now he's back. Phoenix and Winslow (talk) 05:15, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

Re Fort Yellowstone

Mongo,

Thanks for the work. it would have never made FA without your guidance. I agree with you that the subject is extremely important. Lots more stuff on yellowstone and glacier to work on. --Mike Cline (talk) 22:03, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Congrats on the FA! PumpkinSky talk 00:31, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Thank you.--MONGO 04:04, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

@Mike...I have an article I want to get to Good Article soon...it may interest you as its Yellowstone related. I don't know if there are enough comprehensive sources about it to see it all the way to featured level, but we'll see. Will keep you posted.--MONGO 04:04, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Re

I just left a detailed message on the Moose talk page! You're pressing this case awful hard...I honestly can't believe anyone is going to rise to the defense of that map, given how riddled with errors it is. Chubbles (talk) 20:59, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Arbitration case "Race and politics" opened

An arbitration case in which you commented has been opened, and is located at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Race and politics. Evidence that you wish the Arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence sub-page, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Race and politics/Evidence. Please add your evidence by May 21, 2013, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can contribute to the case workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Race and politics/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, Ks0stm ^{(T•C•G•E)} 01:56, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

NPA

My edit summary should have been "(Read WP:NPA and don't alter my posts!)" --Trofobi (talk) 17:52, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Grindelwald-Männlichen gondola lift

Just noticed that you reverted a change of mine, where I was adjusting the article lead in line with a rename of the article I'd made. You didn't revert the rename, so I'm guessing that wasn't your objection, but you also didn't leave a comment, so I'm left wondering.

Actually the article has since moved on, before I noticed your revert, as I discovered a better translation on the owner's web site. Could you explain your revert, and do your objections still apply?. -- chris_j_wood (talk) 11:33, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Sorry about that....it was an accidental rollback so feel free to restore your edit.--MONGO 13:21, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

No problem. Already sorted. -- chris_j_wood (talk) 14:11, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for June 4

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Is your webcam running?

That was probably Holder. He's a notorious prankster. Tom Harrison ^Talk 12:50, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Somebody needs to tell him that there may be a federal law prohibiting impersonating the President....he should know better. I'll keep a lookout on YouTube for anything Holder may have uploaded. I think he uses the handle laughinghyena.--MONGO 15:08, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

The clicking you hear on your phone is the Spanish Inquisition; nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition to use modern electronic monitoring techniques. Acroterion (talk) 18:23, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

That explains it. Its odd that so much was made of some generally small amount of wiretapping, eavesdropping and whatnot under the Bush administration, how he was infringing on civil liberties and whatnot, but now this expanded issue is reveiled and the press is much less enthusiastic to scrutinize it. Its not being ignored, but we're not hearing the outrage that was going on 8 years ago. I am sure that my moniker here is already redflagged at the NSA, FBI, CIA and a half dozen agencies that don't exist since I'm residing in a well known teaparty stronghold and must repent! Surely since I'm here, I must be one of THEM--MONGO 20:55, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

'Shock jock' disrupts BBC's Sunday Politics show

[4] A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 15:28, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Arh, great to see Mr Jones so calm for once. "I'm here to testify that your head was not cut off" lol, nice one, David Aaronovitch. But, the Bilderberg Group? hmmm, scary!! Martinevans123 (talk) 15:40, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

OMG...sorry to any British talkpage stalkers...Jones epitomizes the term Ugly American...how embarrassing! I guess I now need to watchlist the Bilderberg Group to see how much conspiracy theory junk is showing up. I'm surprised that Jones didn't make more of the Andrew Neil and Rupert Murdoch "relationship"...kudos to Neil for his frankness about Jones being the worst person he has ever interviewed! Funnny.--MONGO 16:03, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

There a quite few Brits who think that all Amercians are like this!! (Well, apart from you and President Obama, of course). Yes, he is funny, for about this long anyway. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:06, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

And my impression of your country and its inhabitants is the opposite...my impression is that things there are kindler, gentler, more respectable, safer, more civilized and better educated. Hence the Terrorist Attack in Woolwich on Lee Rigby seems so completely out of the norm for the UK...I might not be surprised here, but it was a shock to see that there. Rest assured, only about 80% or Americans are like Jones! So there is hope yet...not much but some small glimmer of hope.--MONGO 16:15, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Eagle Peak (Wyoming)

Hi, I thought you might be interested that I plan to expand this article you created, possibly as a DYK but as part of my attempt to improve all the US State Highpoints articles.--Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 23:05, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks...sounds like a good plan...I went and added a location map and a few points and made comments at the talkpage.--MONGO 03:29, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

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Why did you revert my edit?

There was no reason to revert my edit at ANI here. I am going to restore it. Kumioko (talk) 13:04, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

Hi Kumioko....it was an accident and I self reverted immediately....luckily I had a fast connection. Sorry about that.--MONGO 13:38, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

No problem, sorry I didn't come back I did notice that. Kumioko (talk) 13:41, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

MONGO trying to master new touch screen portable device...makes more mistakes than usual...combination of large hairy hands and dim wits makes things harder for MONGO to understand.--MONGO 14:03, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

Haha, MONGO not alone in having that problem if him looks close enough at others edits. Happens I suppose to editors of a certain vinatage, certainly to me. Ceoil (talk) 08:06, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Silly flimsy portable devices. 'Zilla use hueg screen plus keyboard size of Michigan. Always reliable! bishzilla _ROARR!! 10:14, 23 June 2013 (UTC).

Ceoil knows that bishzilla is bankrolled by serious business, and serfs like myself and MONGO have to figure this shit out for our selves. As such we beg for mercy. Ceoil (talk) 10:38, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

MONGO take ever wise advice of the zilla seriously to avoid serious consequences...I might be of later vintage but still too young to want to become dinner for Jurassic critters.--MONGO 16:05, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Hairy Shakespeare of the Woods Barnstar

		The Hairy Shakespeare of the Woods Award
		Bigfoot MONGO hereby awarded unique Hairy Shakespeare of the Woods Barnstar for hrair Featured and hairy and leafy National Park articles! bishzilla ROARR!! 16:13, 23 June 2013 (UTC).

• MONGO blushes uncontrollably! Coolest award in Wikipedia history! Much time and effort in devising award...crafted solely for the MONGO...There's many a man has more hair than wit so I shall continue to work on the wit and make sure the hrair is in its place. Many thanks!--MONGO 17:00, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

"Hath not old custom made this life more sweet

Than that of painted pomp? Are not these woods

More free from peril than the envious court?"

-- William Shakespeare (talk) 17:18, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Poor and content is rich, and rich enough Some tubers, fresh leaves and no hunters makes for a happy MONGO.--MONGO 23:44, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Precious again

refuges of natural wildlife
Thank you for taking us on hiking trails to wildernesses areas, such as Grand Teton National Park, to countless forests, lakes and glaciers, with a sense for the relation of people(s) to nature, - repeating: you are an awesome Wikipedian (26 September 2010)!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:20, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

A year ago, you were the 166th recipient of my PumpkinSky Prize, repeated in br'erly style, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:19, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Thank you Gerda...still at it...working on stubs for the next national park FA effort...but have to get an old FA back into shape by updating the refs and have a bio I want to take to GA soon. Have a great day!--MONGO 21:30, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

June 2013

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A barnstar for you!

	The Special Barnstar
	Great work getting up an article on the Blackwater fire of 1937. It is hard to believe there was not one already. AfadsBad (talk) 20:56, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

Its an odd thing that as long as I lived in that region and even participated for well over a month in the Yellowstone fires of 1988, that until this past Saturday 7/29, I had never heard of the Blackwater fire. I stumbled upon the information inadvertantly and was also surprised no article, not even a stub had been written yet so I started the article...then the next day an even worse loss of life happens in Arizona. Kudos to you as well for seeing we needed the article on Ten Standard Firefighting Orders...that was quick work on your part. Thank you for the barnstar!--MONGO 22:57, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

I did not realize you wrote it before the Yarnell fire! I live in national forest in Colorado and Arizona, so I'm thinking a lot about wildfires lately. The Blackwater and Mann Gulch fires bracket an era of firefighting that led to the formation of the Ten Standard Firefighting Orders and many other advances in safety and technique. Blackwater is the major turning point for wildland firefighting techniques in the Western US. A surprising missing article.

Can you get this article on the main page for Do You Know? The process looks complicated, but it would be timely. --AfadsBad (talk) 23:29, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

I don't know what the time frame is for "new" articles to appear on DYK but thought that it might be too much right now since the Yarnell fire is spotlighted in the In The News section...I might ask a more experienced editor with DYK to see if he will add it tomorrow.--MONGO 23:45, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

You might be right, too much on fires, and I don't know the rules, but I think the historical interest in this fire is high enough to make it very interesting. --AfadsBad (talk) 23:50, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

I'll come up with what they call a hook for the DYK and see if I can con a buddy into nominating it...the DYK nomintion process isn't user friendly I don't think..least not to me...in my 8 plus years here I have only nominated a few for DYK. Really appreciate you're quick generation of the fireorders info and I guess we can include the watchouts (18 of them) in that page as well...will get to it this weekend if not sooner. I also just added several more images to the Blackwater fire article...wanted to keep them historical so they're all black and white.--MONGO 00:19, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Good, especially because it has pictures and might be able to lead the section. Good find on the backpack hand pumps; they are mentioned a lot in the literature about the fire. I am getting ready for my summer field session, so I probably won't add much more, a little here and there, but that's why I tried to put some good sources in for others. --AfadsBad (talk) 01:09, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

I'd be glad to nominate it. The article got 1617 page views yesterday, and I suspect they weren't all part of Bishonen's copyedits. Got a hook you want to use? Acroterion (talk) 01:52, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

@AfadsBad....we haven't met before ands it's been a pleasure working with you...thank you for your edits....look forward to more collaborations with you. Acro....I hoped you were watching...hehe...how about "...that after the Blackwater fire killed 15 firefighters in 1937 the U.S Forest Service started the smokejumpers program...." Or simply that the Blackwater fire killed 15 and injured 38 firefighters in Shoshone National Forest, Wyoming in 1937.--MONGO 02:31, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

I think the second hook is more direct and snappy. I'm pleased to see that my Mummy Cave article got a mention. Acroterion (talk) 02:43, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

It's at DYK at Template:Did you know nominations/Blackwater fire of 1937 (nominations for June 30 articles). Acroterion (talk) 03:03, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, Acroterion! This was fun, MONGO, to add something in support of a well done article, and to see it all come together with a couple of editors each doing their thing. I will check out what else you are working on some time, and see if I can contribute. --AfadsBad (talk) 03:19, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

You're welcome, good to see you helping out. I see a couple of articles I should work on: having written the Winecoff Hotel fire, I need to write articles for the La Salle Hotel fire (the same year as the Winecoff fire) and the Strand Theatre Fire which appears in the List of the deadliest firefighter disasters in the United States. Acroterion (talk) 03:35, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Sounds good to me...appreciate all the assistance from several editors!--MONGO 11:20, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

• Just wanted to stick my nose over here and let you know that when I heard the news of this weekend, I thought of you and your work on the Yellowstone article. Risker (talk) 23:11, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

  Thanks Risker...I know the vast majority of firefighters go their entire careers and never have a major mishap. In 1994 I saw a helicopter crash and in 1996 I witnessed the crash of a Secret Service cargo jet on Sheep Mountain just outside Jackson Hole, Wyoming[5]...I should be thankful that neither myself or anyone I knew personally that died on a fire or major accident. So odd that of all the millions of acres that burned in the Yellowstone region in 1988 that no one of the tens of thousands of firefighters and support personnel that were there that season died. The situation in Yarnell seems almost inexplainable...the reports when they come out will be somber reads.--MONGO 00:02, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

RfC draft

Hi, I'm just letting you that I have removed a comment you posted on one of my user sub pages as I felt it was off-topic and you had missed the objective of the draft. You are welcome to comment there, but please do not use it to air any concerns about adminship or bureaucrats in general or anything that is not directly related to the draft. There are other places you can do that. Cheers, Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 00:11, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

I don't see how my comments were not related...maybe I missing something.--MONGO 00:22, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

My comments were spot on...The notion of having crats doing something they were not elected to do aint going to fly. Just because they will lose one useright doesn't mean we turn around and give them a new one that they were never elected to do. Thought you should get some feedback before you take this proposal live, but I see its by invitation only...Cheers,--MONGO 01:05, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

You still appear to miss the purpose of the draft which is not expected to attract general comments on its talk page; anything like that can be expressed on the RfC if and when it ever goes life - that's what it's for. The invitations are deliberately public, so anyone finding them is welcome to provide their feedback. If they do, they are encouraged to read it carefully in order not to miss the explicit objective. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:16, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

I'll let you and they hammer out how you want to word it and review it if you open the Rfc. I'm opposed to giving crats the ability to read consensus to desysop. I feel that there are extremely few admins (none standout) that have repeatedly misused their tools or positions that have kept their userights.--MONGO 01:43, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

That's your opinion, and I won't argue with it, but it's got nothing to do with the draft, or eventually asking the entire community to express their opinions on such an idea. I'm not even saying whether or not I personally favour such a solution, but I do feel it's one that the community should be given an opportunity to deliberate upon. I don't care either way if they reject or accept it. So let's leave it at that. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:53, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Kudpung...I know you're a great person so we'll just say this is one situation where we're talking past each other.--MONGO 02:06, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Blackwater fire of 1937

Harrias ^talk 08:02, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Death of Lee Rigby

'revert a slew of POV edits'

I amended numerous unproven claims about an on-going legal case, which seemingly disregarded the talk page's: 'Important notice'. How is your edit any less guilty of POV than mine? Beingsshepherd (talk)Beingsshepherd

You think (one of) the assailants is now a "suspected assailant", because there is a legal charge of murder in place against him? Martinevans123 (talk) 10:11, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

You seem to be confusing *charge* with *conviction*. Beingsshepherd (talk) 17:31, 7 July 2013 (UTC)Beingsshepherd

Oh, I see. So if he was convicted you would still claim be was a "suspected assailant", yes? Martinevans123 (talk) 17:34, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

No, in that event his status would change from presumed innocent to legally guilty. Beingsshepherd (talk)Beingsshepherd

No one is saying they are guilty. But its clear we just report what the reliable references say and in this case, the references all refer to them as the suspects and/or assailants and that they have been charged and arrested. They don't say alleged or suspected as an antecedent word. We can continue this at the article talkpage...but not sure what else there is to cover.--MONGO 17:55, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

No one is saying they are guilty!? Were you laughing as you wrote that?: ' Two assailants, later identified as Michael Adebolajo and Michael Adebowale, drove a car at Rigby, knocking him to the pavement.[23] The assailants then attacked and killed Rigby with knives and a cleaver, and attempted to behead his body. ' Beingsshepherd (talk) 18:48, 7 July 2013 (UTC)Beingsshepherd

Are you saying there are no sources to support these claims? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:55, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

I'm saying we should err on the side of caution: ' One of the two suspected Islamist terrorists who allegedly butchered a British soldier on a London street ' ~ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/10077439/Woolwich-attack-why-was-suspect-Michael-Adebolajo-free-to-kill.html

Beingsshepherd, if you cannot understand that Wikipedia just reports what the sources tell us, then I can't help you. Do you think we made the story up and then the news got their information from us? Please read about Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources...--MONGO 18:58, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Then you should have no problem with citations of mainstream media sources, which name the men as 'suspects' (as the article incongruously does). Beingsshepherd (talk) 00:02, 8 July 2013 (UTC)Beingsshepherd

I have the article page watchlisted...take the article discussion there. I'm not going to keep explaining the same issues over and over on my usertalk.--MONGO 02:31, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Troy's not really burning, but..

I know boring comments like that one do bloat up a talkpage thus making it less readable and accessible, but it's not like the rest of the page is a feast of reason and flow of soul, is it? I'd leave it if I were you. Cassandra at the peak of her insanity (crazytalk) 21:02, 19 July 2013 (UTC).

...and it's not policy compliant to remove it unless there's a personal attack or private data in it, and makes us look excessively censorious, etc. Please leave it alone... Thanks. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 22:32, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

George...read the top of the page...I am notorious....the comment and all other comments by that IP look like dramamongering....I don't see any substantive article work. Grrrrr....--MONGO 23:10, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

Dear me, George. Do you have any reason to suppose my note wasn't enough for MONGO, and needed piling on? Or that he's too green to know about policy? Shall I send my good friend Darwinbish to your page to explain all about how it's rude (she may have a better word) to tell seasoned users stuff they already know? Especially in the case of notorious users. Cassandra at the peak of her insanity (crazytalk) 23:16, 19 July 2013 (UTC).

Cassandra: What, I don't know Bishzilla?

It wasn't piling on, so much as starting to separately respond and then noticing you had (the subsection title fooled me initially) and combining, before I edit-committed.

Mongo: I know, but the tagging others do as to "little to no substantive edits" for comments like that is less drama-inducing than removing them. Removing them escalates drama rather than reducing it, IMHO. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 23:39, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

George: You don't know Cassandra, if you think you can hide in Bishzilla's pocket! <an intemperate rant on everybody's as well as the project's imminent demise supervenes in hexameter, quickly removed as tl;dr.> Cassandra at the peak of her insanity (crazytalk) 23:56, 19 July 2013 (UTC).

/me considers creating an extremely unruly small sock to be known as Imminent Denise. Bishonen | talk 00:00, 20 July 2013 (UTC).

Meh...its a trolling IP...somebody explain to it that all we need is the link to the post, not a frickin entire regurgitation of the comment.--MONGO 01:53, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

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User:Daloonik

A user you blocked in times past has resurfaced: see User talk:Daloonik and User:Snotbot/Requests for unblock report. Acroterion (talk) 13:27, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

How weird. I blocked him 7 years ago...most would have created a new username and moved on by now. I guess if his contributions are sound in other venues as he claims there isn't any reason for the account to remain blocked...I guess someone would have to watch him. I can't even remember what the infractions were.--MONGO 13:55, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Hum...impressive block log.--MONGO 14:09, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Maybe if I got my toolbelt back I could indef the account again if he acts up! Lol.--MONGO 14:45, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Have you considered applying for it? --Anthony Bradbury^"talk" 18:35, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

I've actually rerun twice since...thanks for asking Anthony.--MONGO 19:03, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Yes, but the last one was now some time ago, was it not? --Anthony Bradbury^"talk" 13:22, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/MONGO 3 was less than a year ago actually...it wasn't very pretty but I think a number of people misunderstood some comments I had made in the months prior to that Rfa so they commented accordingly. Extra tools would let me be a bigger participant during the week as I do most article editing on weekends when I have sufficient time to do the necessary research. Tools would help me work on some of the off and on backlogs....but the title of administrator means nothing to me...if I decide to run again I'll do a self nomination.--MONGO 13:41, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Re: Tea Party movement ArbCom case

Thanks for the note on my User Talk page. In the ArbCom case for Tea Party movement, I've presented evidence of the Wikistalking, including the statement by User:WLRoss on May 1, "I stopped editing Tea Party as soon as it was brought up," and then returning to Talk:Tea Party movement, on the other side of the content dispute once again, in the middle of June after the heat had died down. If you have any evidence to present, or comments to make regarding the proposed findings of fact I've offered the Committee here, you may wish to provide "comments by others." Also there is a motion to just page ban everybody — the good, the bad, and the ugly — for six months and hope that some uninvolved editors will show up and reach consensus during those six months. Discussion of the motion rapidly moved into polite discussion that was predictably characterized as "bickering." The comments and discussion start here. regards .... Phoenix and Winslow (talk) 17:40, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

I don't like the motion but it's an easy way out since, in defense of the committee, this while mess is pretty difficult to see who is right and who is wrong. I did try to follow the issues but the fact is that I need like 12 hours to get up to speed to make a coherent comment on the matter and right now I don't have the time. However, the editor in question is well known to me and has been problematic now in at least 4 different articles...so any further misuse of this website by him to promote fringe viewpoints is going to force us to put a stop to it.--MONGO 18:27, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Unfortunately, the editor in question has successfully Wikistalked me and is effectively homesteading on a series of articles where I started editing before he did. As a result that series of articles is a train wreck. Phoenix and Winslow (talk) 15:12, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Some articles just simply have little hope of ever getting good. Polarizing topics just attract POV pushers...it's the nature of the beast. Wikipedia salvation, if there is any, can be found by selecting topics you find personally appealing that have few if any controversies surrounding them.--MONGO 15:32, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Like you and your glaciers, right? Phoenix and Winslow (talk) 17:31, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Sort of...glaciers mountains and things like that are usually pretty benign so even though I am active in a few controversial areas such as articles related to 9/11 and some discussions, I have a zone of retreat where I can actually get something done. That's not to say that all controversial topics have zero chance of improvement...ifs just that for your own sanity it's really best to keep things in perspective and help out in other areas that generally lack lengthy antagonistic discussions.--MONGO 17:45, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Eagle Peak (Wyoming)

The DYK project (nominate) 16:03, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

Blackwater fire of 1937

Hi again, other than thanking you for the appreciation that you showed me, I wanted to address something which I had forgotten. I forgot to verify the sources and do a quick check on its factual accuracy (Not that it's needed, I just want to give it a try). I'll give you the feedback here itself maybe within a day or two, do you want me to? You can say no since surely users more familiar with the topic/sources are will do it anyway in any nominations.

Also, wherever you want take it from there, whether GA or FA, I'll keep a close watch too. I would like to see what has been overlooked or even better, if it gets pumped up to a GA. -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 18:08, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

I archived the peer review but feel free to run through anything else and post your findings at the peer review and I can address them from there. I plan on taking the article to Featured Article Candidates so I know we will see some discussion about the references then.--MONGO 19:05, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

You are very welcome and thanks for your feedback in the peer review. Good luck with article, I'll be watching it. -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 20:12, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

A cup of tea for you!

Well done in getting the Blackwater fire of 1937 article nominated, saw how you worked hard for it and got support! I was following it and got first-hand experience of the FA nomination process, learnt a lot especially what all was overlooked in the Peer review. You sure deserve a break, great job! Ugog Nizdast (talk) 17:14, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Thank you very much....tea would be good right about now. I have yet to get an article to featured level without the wise suggestions and copyediting from editors such as yourself....the best part of the process is the editors one meets along the way. I try to contribute to another featured level submission as a copyeditor or reviewer whenever I nominate something I have been the primary editor on...this seems only fair. But when someone such as yourself shows up to do a peer review or to work on a good article or feature article candidate out of the blue, then thats pretty cool...kudos.--MONGO 18:23, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Special Barnstar
	Thanks for saving my life from the scary dinosaur... That was way too close. :) Michaelzeng7 (talk) 18:58, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Thank you! While I am an admirer of the ever hungry Bishzilla....I want to at least give you a running start before she gets your scent....--MONGO 19:28, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

[Bishzilla thoughtfully sniffs the air for lingering scent of little Michaelzeng7. Very sharp sense of smell.] bishzilla _ROARR!! 17:46, 26 August 2013 (UTC).

File:Bishzilla attacks.JPG

Very sharp teeth of the Mighty Bishzilla

• The thought of becoming dinner should be enough to deter misdeeds....peace through strength!--MONGO 18:03, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Zeitgeist

What are you talking about "jacked around"? He's clearly responding to my previous question, which I fixed. If you want me to start a new section for those questions then say so without leaving a rude comment summary. Somedifferentstuff (talk) 17:17, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

A half dozen editors don't agree with you...his response was to you but also to the concerns overall which may explain why he didn't indent his comment.--MONGO 17:33, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

There is a current consensus on the article which is why I'm not making changes to the article. Somedifferentstuff (talk) 18:13, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

My recent RfA

I should have said thanks for your support sooner. ```Buster Seven Talk 22:58, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Half million award

		The Half Million Award
		For your contributions to bring Elk (estimated annual readership: 519,000) to Featured Article status, I hereby present you the Half Million Award. Congratulations, and thanks for all you do for Wikipedia's readers! -- 16:56, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

The Million Award is a new initiative to recognize the editors of Wikipedia's most-read content; you can read more about the award and its possible tiers (Quarter Million Award, Half Million Award, and Million Award) at Wikipedia:Million Award. You're also welcome to display this userbox:

This editor won the Half Million Award for bringing Elk to Featured Article status.

If I've made any error in this listing, please don't hesitate to correct it; if for any reason you don't feel you deserve it, please don't hesitate to remove it; if you know of any other editor who merits one of these awards, please don't hesitate to give it; if you yourself deserve another award from any of the three tiers, please don't hesitate to take it! Cheers, -- Khazar2 (talk) 17:00, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

Now thats a nifty award and thank you for developing it. Elk was an article I was going to do a little update on as far as the refs go, right after I finish a different one that is even more dated. It nice to see the article I worked on get that much traffic!--MONGO 23:30, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

You're very welcome--it's been fun to see what so many other editors have been up to. -- Khazar2 (talk) 01:00, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

Hey, I owe you another one of these! This just fell a bit short of the Million, actually. Sorry they're coming piecemeal; I'm simply wandering through Wikipedia:Lists of popular pages by WikiProject and seeing what's highly trafficked.

		The Half Million Award
		For your contributions to bring Yellowstone National Park (estimated annual readership: 931,000) to Featured Article status, I hereby present you the Half Million Award. Congratulations, and thanks for all you do for Wikipedia's readers! -- Khazar2 (talk) 13:26, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

This editor won the Half Million Award for bringing Yellowstone National Park to Featured Article status.

Thanks again for all you do! -- Khazar2 (talk) 13:26, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Hi Khazar! This one belongs to User:Mav more than me...he brought the article to FA long ago then a few years later I expanded it two-fold and took it to FARC to make sure it kept it's FA status...but his effort was the original one. Maybe he and I deserve shared credit?--MONGO 15:18, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Good to know--I'll give him one too. Thanks again, Khazar2 (talk) 21:18, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Grace Sherwood FA

Thank you from PSky and Wehwalt for your comment, review, and support of this recently successful FAC. PumpkinSky talk 20:24, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

My pleasure...I was actually going to commend to two of you for bringing the former FA back....good work.--MONGO 13:18, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

Fire and brimstone

[Ponderously, making all MONGO's national parks echo from hill to dale.] Yippee! Roarr! bishzilla _ROARR!! 15:53, 14 September 2013 (UTC).

Thank you....always nice to see another wild critter take notice of the great outdoors!--MONGO 18:36, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

I guess I talked my way into it

Manning. --DHeyward (talk) 03:59, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

I don't readily see a public notice to the clerks to add all those names to the case. They may have done so by email. Not sure what they see as cause to add your name to the case. I see you rationally stating your opinion but that is all. I may have to make proposed remedies but they're going to focus on the issues not the named parties. I don't know if the committee is going to keep the workshop open long enough for me to make some decent suggestions regarding BLP and gender recognition.--MONGO 04:37, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

NFL

Hey MONGO, so you've been commenting on a number of different threads on stuff having to do with 9/11 when conspiracy theorists want to change things to usually support their own beliefs, but that isn't what brought me here. I am not sure if you are an NFL fan, but I am a huge one. I wanted to know the other day what current head coaches in the league have won a Super Bowl ever in their career, not just as a head coach. None of this information was on one page, so I decided to make one, the first I have ever attempted, so if you got a minute and can look at it and make any suggestions before I submit it that would be a big help. You can see it here. I'm working on adding a couple pictures. I'm having trouble trying to figure out how to position the tables on the page so they are next to each other rather then above and below each other. Please let me know. Thanks!Zdawg1029 (talk) 12:06, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Sure....will look at it this evening.--MONGO 13:31, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks!Zdawg1029 (talk) 16:41, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

You have plenty of references...it would be better to convert them to citation templates. It appears authoritative and I would add as many images of the coaches as possible. Not much of an expert of tables...if you search around at similar lists you may find a format that meets your needs....--MONGO 17:54, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the input. Because I was bored, I started going through and I made an additional table of current head coaches that have played in and lost Super Bowls as well just in case it is decided that it would be relevant. So I got everyone that has won one and lost one on the page. One guy was saying that it doesn't seem like a useful page and that "what if a coach retires tomorrow, do we take him off the page," to which I replied that while coaches get fired every season (retiring doesn't happen often), it usually only happens in the couple weeks following the season, so there isn't a constant shifting of coaches that would make the page inaccurate and in need of constant updating. The majority of people that I asked said it was an interesting list, so I'm hoping it gets accepted. What do you mean by converting the references to a citation template though? Do you have an example I can see? I can usually figure out how to do it myself if I can see the page source. Thanks.Zdawg1029 (talk) 19:01, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

It's not an issue with the references...using just the url is fine so long as it is referenced...later you can add the citation template to complete the references...one example is shown at List of states and territories of the United States which was brought to featured lists level by Toa Nidhiki05. I don't see why you can't move the article to article space as the article sits now.--MONGO 19:32, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

Okay thanks, I'm going to do a few more things to it in a few days when I get time and then submit later. Thanks for the help! (And down with truthers)Zdawg1029 (talk) 18:03, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Let me know when you copy it to article space and I'll watchlist it.--MONGO 18:20, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Will do.Zdawg1029 (talk) 18:52, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

So I basically finished the article. It needs to have a couple pictures added to it and a couple other things, but the content part is all there. I've gotten some mixed responses. Some said that it wasn't needed because all the information is on the individual coaches page, but more people said it was interesting and worth it. It isn't true though that all the info is on the individuals page. I saw quite a few that listed that they worth with the team during that season but didn't mention they won the Super Bowl that season. I have seen so many random lists on Wikipedia that take info from other pages and group it together if it has something in common. I mean would it be a wildly popular article? No. But would it be interesting? Yes. Is it accurate? Yes. I just don't see why it shouldn't be added. What purpose does it serve? Well the whole reason anyone gets in that league is to win a SB, so it's nice to see what coaches have that "fulfillment". So I submitted it and hopefully they accept it. Zdawg1029 (talk) 16:52, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

I can submit it, but I'm new to this...why not just copy paste it into article space and send me a link? I still see its up in a draft format.--MONGO 20:59, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

I'm a little confused. Copy and paste it where? I did hit the "submit draft" button on the page and it says on the bottom it is pending review despite the fact it says it has not been submitted at the top. But what should I do again? Lemme know please. Thanks!Zdawg1029 (talk) 17:39, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Me too...I see now at the bottom, "This may take over 3 weeks. The Articles for creation process is very highly backlogged. Please be patient."...hum...I'll look at the review later today and see fi I can speed it up.--MONGO 18:24, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Okay thanks for the help, I appreciate it. I'm just really curious as to if they will accept it or not. It isn't the end of the world if they don't, but I can't think of any reason why they wouldn't.Zdawg1029 (talk) 18:33, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

It might be that reviewers will see the article as a little redundant to the List of Super Bowl head coaches, which lists currently active head coaches in green. However your article shows all head coaches that won a Super Bowl as either a head coach, an assistant, a player or in some shape or form. All I would change is the title to Super Bowl history of active NFL head coaches.--MONGO 00:38, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Huh, I have not seen that article before. But still, my argument is just what you said, that list shows who has won as a head coach while this one shows who has ever won one, and lost one if found relevant. I agree with changing the title to that though, I was thinking the same thing. Is there a way to change the name at this point?Zdawg1029 (talk) 01:38, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

If it was already an article I'd just move it...not sure how to do so now, unless you simply take down the article and repost it with the new title.--MONGO 01:48, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Well they declined it for the time being only saying I needed to add sources to the "Super Bowl Loses" section and then it would be good to go. Which I was thinking about doing but the sources I would use for the Losing section I had already used in the Winning section, so I didn't add them thinking I didn't want to double the sources. So I guess I will make that change and from what they said it would be fine.Zdawg1029 (talk) 02:11, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

I'd use as many different sources as possible...maybe even retitle the page if you want.--MONGO 04:09, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

So they accepted it today, so this pleases me. Yay my first Wiki article! They moved it here. Thanks for the help!Zdawg1029 (talk) 02:57, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

That's a decent list for a first attempt...you can of course just create articles directly into article space since you are a registered editor. Another option is to work on a new article in your sandbox and then copy paste it into article space once you have it the way you want. Nice job.--MONGO 03:18, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Thank you Thank you. If I come up with any other good ideas for pages I will certainly do that.Zdawg1029 (talk) 03:28, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Jules and Gedeon Naudet

So because it is 9/11 related, I figured I would bug you about this one as well. I was scrolling through the pictures on my phone and I forgot that when I went to the American History Museum here in D.C. a few weeks ago, I saw the video camera that was used by Jules Naudet that captured the only good footage of Flight 11 crashing into the North Tower and I took a picture of it. First question is do you think it is even worth adding to the Jules and Gedeon Naudet article, and if it is, are we allowed to use a picture I took from inside the museum? The picture itself is decent enough, I actually have two.Zdawg1029 (talk) 22:57, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

I think an image of an image may be a copyright issue...let me ask someone who knows better than I.--MONGO 00:07, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

No no, it isn't an image of an image, it is just a picture of the exhibit that I took.Zdawg1029 (talk) 00:11, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

You took a picture of the video camera, not of an image captured by the video camera? If thats the case I'm still not sure, but assume it may be okay...I just asked someone else so lets see what he says.--MONGO 00:13, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Yes exactly, as weird as it sounds, it is a picture of a camera, wow that sounds weird, but it is the camera that caught infamous footage, it's like a picture of the camera for the Zapruder film.Zdawg1029 (talk) 00:15, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Well...not too weird at all really...yesterday's featured image was of a camera.--MONGO 00:29, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Ha! Interesting. I was a lot more infatuated with this camera then my friends were, they didn't seem to pick up on the significance of what this particular camera had filmed. I thought it was worth adding the picture somewhere on here if we could, but I wasn't sure if just a picture of a camera was significant to anyone else.Zdawg1029 (talk) 00:35, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

"There is normally no copyright in a 3D utilitarian object." Purely decorative aspects of a utilitarian object may be protected, but may be de minimis. A logo that exceeds the threshold of originality may be protected. It can be removed in photo-editing software, if necessary. "Photographs taken by yourself in a museum or the interior of a building/monument are deemed acceptable." Please see Commons:Image_casebook#Utility_objects and Commons:Image_casebook#Museum_and_interior_photography for more information. --Walter Siegmund (talk) 00:40, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Glad I asked an expert! Very illuminating. So, to expand on that, let's say I took a picture of a statue, as I did on those bronze items in OMaha, but then had to have them deleted...was that because they were not housed in a public facility or was it because they were too recent?--MONGO 00:51, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

"[If the 3D] artwork remains in copyright a license from the artist is nearly always needed." Please see Commons:Image_casebook#3D_art_.28sculptures_etc..29. However, works by authors who died at least 100 years ago are in the public domain in all nations (Commons:When_to_use_the_PD-Art_tag#Works_whose_authors_died_at_least_100_years_ago). In some cases, more recent works are not protected. If the work is not the subject of the photograph, it may be de minimis and not protected. --Walter Siegmund (talk) 02:40, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

So a picture of a picture is not okay...these issues are unfamiliar still to me...one would think I might have grasped it better by now. I assume that uploads to en.wiki and Commons follow the same copyright policies since the servers are in the U.S.?--MONGO 02:48, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

A picture of a picture is a derivative work and is not okay if the underlying work is protected by copyright. Uploaders are generally given the benefit of the doubt as long as they make a reasonable effort to comply with the guidelines and don't become abusive when a deletion request goes against them. Differences: En.wiki permits fair use, but Commons does not. Also, Commons is more international in its viewpoint. Freedom of panorama is permitted in many countries, but not the United State. --Walter Siegmund (talk) 04:28, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the reminders and crash course in image copyright issues....hum....I better not quit my day job.--MONGO 16:35, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Okay so I caught up there that he said my picture of the exhibit (the camera) was okay, so second question is do you think it is worth adding? I think so because as I eluded to before, it is the equivalent of the camera that Abraham Zapruder used to capture the JFK assassination. The footage that this particular camera captured is a very significant moment in US history. If it is good enough for the American History Museum, I think it is good enough for Wikipedia. Thoughts?Zdawg1029 (talk) 16:49, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Yes....I think it would be a fine addition in my opinion.--MONGO 17:01, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Okay where should I upload it at? I tried doing it this morning but was a little confused, first I was on Wikipedia then it said to try Commons instead, so where exactly should I go? It was asking me a million different things to upload it also.Zdawg1029 (talk) 17:04, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

If you haven't yet, just open an account on commons....and use the bot there to help you...send me a link and I'll make sure it has the correct categories...--MONGO 17:08, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

I don't know why I didn't get your post above. But anyways I figured out how to upload them, it was easy, I am not sure what I was doing before, I must have been in the wrong place. But here are the links:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Jules_Naudet_Camera_1.JPG

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Jules_Naudet_Camera_2.JPG

I added one to the Naudet Article, let me know if you think I should have done anything different.Zdawg1029 (talk) 19:15, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Looks fine...I added a category to one image file over at Commons...nice addition to the article.--MONGO 03:24, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, I thought it was a nice addition.Zdawg1029 (talk) 13:35, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

Talk:Bradley Manning/October 2013 move request

Greetings. Because you participated in the August 2013 move request regarding this subject, you may be interested in participating in the current discussion. This notice is provided pursuant to Wikipedia:Canvassing#Appropriate notification. Cheers! bd2412 T 21:39, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Last will and testament of Tadeusz Kościuszko

Since you c/e much of the article about TK, you may be interested in this new subarticle. I am attempting to split all controversial/undue info about the will from TK article into this new one - it is a major topic at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Tadeusz Kościuszko/archive1. Comments appreciated, --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 07:26, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

Merge discussion for Fort Niobrara Wilderness

An article that you have been involved in editing, Fort Niobrara Wilderness, has been proposed for a merge with another article. If you are interested in the merge discussion, please participate by going here, and adding your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Ammodramus (talk) 18:34, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Paid editing policy proposal

Hi Mongo. I was a little confused by your "oppose" comment in the paid editing policy proposal. The purpose of the proposal is to curb paid editing. Now admittedly it's weak and wholly inadequate, and I'm beginning to see the whole thing as an exercise in futility. However, what confused me was that it does purport to regulate or limit paid editing, even in a weak way, and the people voting oppose have generally seen nothing wrong with paid editing. Hence my curiosity. Thanks, Coretheapple (talk) 18:34, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Trying to further clarify my argument there...sorry if I've been confusing.--MONGO 19:31, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Oh, I see what you mean. Let me say that I agree with you 100%. My personal feeling is that maybe we should just abandon all efforts at regulating conflicts of interest and put a disclosure on each article to the effect that content may have been added by paid editors. Overall I am in accord with you that the proposal is far too weak. Still, I did support it in an earlier form as I felt it was better than nothing, but you're right, it is an acceptance of paid editing and that is just plain wrong, unless greatly curtailed in a way that is anathema to most editors. Coretheapple (talk) 19:56, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

I don't know if there is any way to monitor/administer whether someone is paid to edit and even if there was, exactly what to do about it. I just think the website should be clear that it isn't condoned and is discouraged or even maybe more forcefully than worded than that. I don't like to pooh-pooh what are very reasonable efforts to try and corral various situations such as this one.--MONGO 01:34, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Just wanted to let you know that I've come around to your way of thinking on the proposal. SlimVirgin's rationale was also persuasive. Appreciate your clear-headed thinking on this, though I'm burned out on the general subject and feel in general that it needs to be dealt with by the Foundation. Coretheapple (talk) 15:42, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

I try to be brief in comments since no one reads lengthy posts...but sometimes I'm not as clear as I wish to be. On Jimbo's page there seems to be some decent discussion about the paid advocacy thing. Jimbo seems to be about where I am on the matter. I concur with him that just because we can't stop something, doesn't mean we should allow it...the problem is what to do about it. Maybe a case by case examination will be necessary. I'm also going to examine what User:SlimVirgin's et al proposals look like...and I have't ruled out what User:Jehochman is proposing either.--MONGO 15:49, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

Ban Appeal of AKonanykhin

Hi. Since you contributed to the discussion resulting in the ban of Wikiexperts, you may want to consider the CEO's appeal at Wikipedia:AN#Ban Appeal of AKonanykhin. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 17:07, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

Saint Mary Lake

I see you did the bulk of the article on Saint Mary Lake. Thought you might appreciate this montage I recently did of some aerial photos I took August 4 of this year. File:Panoramic aerial view of Saint Mary Lake, Glacier National Park, Montana 01.jpg. - Jmabel | Talk 04:40, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

It's impressive even when viewed on my cell...tonight I'll look it over on a bigger screen. Wondering how you managed to get a chance to fly over that part of the park....--MONGO 13:20, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Very facinating...you have both upper and lower Saint Mary Lake, even Lake Sherburne at top...and the entire upper Saint Mary Valley all the way to Logan Pass. Going to the Sun Road is easily seen too...Nice job! Also a decent visual on the town of St. Mary...--MONGO 23:42, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Main Page appearance: Blackwater fire of 1937

This is a note to let the main editors of Blackwater fire of 1937 know that the article will be appearing as today's featured article on November 6, 2013. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. If you prefer that the article appear as TFA on a different date, or not at all, please ask Bencherlite (talk · contribs). You can view the TFA blurb at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/November 6, 2013. If it needs tweaking, or if it needs rewording to match improvements to the article between now and its main page appearance, please edit it, following the instructions at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests/instructions. The blurb as it stands now is below:

The Blackwater fire was caused by a lightning strike on August 18, 1937 in Shoshone National Forest, about 35 miles (56 km) west of Cody, Wyoming, United States. Fifteen firefighters were killed by the forest fire when a dry weather front caused the winds to suddenly increase and change direction. The fire quickly spread into dense forest, trapping some of the firefighters in a firestorm. Nine died during the fire and six died afterwards from severe burns and respiratory complications; 38 others were injured. More U.S. wildland firefighters died in the Blackwater fire than in any incident since the Great Fire of 1910; the death-toll was not surpassed until 2013 when 19 firefighters died in the Yarnell Hill Fire. Firefighters in the first half of the 20th century used mostly hand tools to suppress wildfires, and all gear was carried by the firefighters or by pack animals. Weather forecasting and radio communication were generally poor or nonexistent. After the Blackwater fire, better ways to respond to such fires were developed, including the smokejumper program in 1939 and the Ten Standard Firefighting Orders (a standardized set of wildland firefighting principles) in 1957. (Full article...)

UcuchaBot (talk) 23:02, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Interesting...I guess it just got put there by default as I never saw a discussion...but that works for me...cool beans!--MONGO 23:33, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Calm talking about wild talking

I came across a mention of the Conspiracy and Democracy project at Centre for Research in the Arts, Social Sciences, and Humanities and read a bit there and at their blog. Somehow it is quite soothing to read academics calmly discussing... stuff and stuffers. And they link to other people who apparently also are calm. How nice.

What is the problem with conspiracy theories? and On the vices and virtues of conspiracy theories were interesting blog reads.

If they are new to you, can you think who else might like to know about them? (John Naughton, Richard J. Evans, others) I saw A Quest For Knowledge in the history of 9/11, but you might know who has the desire for the academic point of view. I'm afraid I shy away from the conspiracies of conspiracies like I shy away from pictures of smallpox victims, so I don't know who would be interested (and aren't burnt out). Shenme (talk) 23:56, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Interesting. Personally, I am not bothered if someone believes in the 9/11 CTs...I just don't like it when they try to force such issues into the articles that detail what really happened. It's an interesting analogy from the one blog about how 9/11 CTs sidetrack us from the mission at hand...our article talkpages on 9/11 are generally dominated in dealing with wild talk about the conspiracies and the bulk of these articles can't be improved due to the ongoing distractions which prevent substantive change in a positive way...it's a giant time sap.--MONGO 02:24, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

MONGO: I will ignore your playfully threatening web banner. (I think it distracts from the purpose of Wikipedia.) You deleted an addition of mine to the article, Collapse of the World Trade Center, calling it a "conspiracy theory." My addition, under "Other Investigations," was: "Although the NIST report states that the agency "did not look for evidence of explosives" being involved in the World Trade Center catastrophe, a team of chemists and physicists headed by Niels H. Harrit of the University of Copenhagen published in 2009 the finding of the pyrotechnic material nanothermite in dust samples from the World Trade Center site. The editor of the publication at the time was Marie-Paule Pileni, an international expert in nanometric materials." Can you please explain to me what is a "conspiracy theory" about that? Just as the NIST investigators, I think you have taken the abscence of explosives (better called "pyrotechnic materials," because they are not loud) as a *premise*, and sought to explain the rapid collapse of the three WTC buildings soley by other factors. You and others refuse to question your initial assumptions, calling any other assumptions out-of-hand "impossible." There is nothing conspiratorial about asking a scientific study to question its assumptions.

• • I would prefer that you UNDO your deletion of my material instead of me.** Add to it or modify it if you must.

Yes, the scientific integrity of Bentham Science Publications has been called into question. The article World Trade Center controlled demolition conspiracy theories cites an article in Library Journal by Norman Oder (footnote 11), but I have read this article and it has nothing to do with Marie-Paule Pileni's reasons for resignation as editor. See Neils Harrit's interpretation . The information I have added to Collapse of the World Trade Center does belong there under the subheading, "Other Investigations." Please allow other people to examine your premises if you won't.((comment was signed but syntax-bug means I'm not sure by whom))

Post your argument on the article talkpage and see if there is agreement for your addition.--((comment was signed but syntax-bug means I'm not sure by whom))

Hello. You have a new message at Hike395's talk page.

talkpage stalker swoops in to say that I modified one of the HTML tags in the Harrit-cite above, the markup-syntax was broken and that interfered with my own comment below. The tildes above were never fixed either, I removed them to avoid further damage, please see view-history if you are not sure who said what. Correct syntax, to avoid such bugs in the future, is <mytag> stuff </mytag> ... note the position of the slash. Computers are annoying sometimes, sorry about that.  :-)   Hope this helps. 74.192.84.101 (talk) 14:38, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

canvassing for ArbCom

Hello Mongo, noticed your suggestion that Acroterion ought to run for ArbCom. I'm in agreement. Can we run a political draft campaign, and test the waters? WP:CANVASSING seems to apply to content-disputes, not to arbcom elections, but I've never taken an interest in arbcom-stuff before this year, so maybe you can guide me on what's Good and what is NotGood in these sorts of scenarios. My suggestion is that we put an appropriate notice[6] onto your subsection of Acroterion's talkpage, and then ask all they people they've helped or been nice to or otherwise assisted, to come over and leave a supportive comment.

  This is biasing consensus-on-Acroterion's-personal-talkpage, of course, but the *real* test of the actually *important* consensus -- assuming Acroterion can be convinced to run for a seat -- is whether or not they *get* elected, which is of course a decision that will not be made on their own personal talkpage. Is inviting like-minded people to the draft-Acroterion-discussion, after which conceivably the same folks may or may not then later participate in the actual !voting of the actual ArbCom election, going to mess with some sort of anti-canvassing taboo? Thanks. 74.192.84.101 (talk) 14:38, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

The best are oftentimes the most unlikely to run...and while they would be an example of the ideal candidate, I know Acroterion has zero interest. It's not a violation of canvassing to make a suggestion to someone that they run for arbcom or admin, but I don't want to be involved in an active recruitment campaign.--MONGO 15:58, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

Sure, and I respect that you might not want to be actively-out-pounding-on-user-talkpage-doors, WP:REQUIRED applies of course. But if I was interested in doing such a thing, and I were to go visit some people I know working on harrier jump jets with me at the moment, and drop Ac4arb messages on *the talkpages of my friends* ... suggesting they visit your suggestion to run, over on the Acroterion-user-talkpage... is that WP:Okay or would it be WP:VeryNotOkay? Same question, about posting over at wikiProjectMilitaryHistory, where Acroterion has lots of friends, but I don't happen to know anybody.

  While I understand that it is taboo for Acroterion to wp:canvass for themselves, and also seems to be taboo for anybody to canvass for voters of a certain stripe, sending them to the arbcom-elections-page... my ask-my-friends-to-convince-Acroterion-to-think-about-running 'campaign' seems several steps removed. That makes it a bit of a grey area, and lacking some explicit yes-that-is-okay guidance, I'd err on the side of caution. So, do you have knowledge of okay-ness, for me to pursue such a thing, even though you aren't interested in pursuit yourself personally? p.s. Keyboard for typing, not for gnawing! 74.192.84.101 (talk) 23:48, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

Acroterion is most definitely not interested and cannot be talked into it...lets leave him be...thanks. If you can think of potential candidates other than him and you want to suggest they run then there isn't any rules against that...but the nomination period is nearly up.--MONGO 00:01, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

keyboard difficulties

Well, not to violate WP:NPA or anything, but I noticed Bishzilla bragging about using a keyboard the size of Wisconsin, or something. Didn't want you to feel left out. Perhaps you should contact this corporation,[7] and see if they produce a special-edition version with MONGO-sized keycaps? Might need to make sure the hardwood they use is sustainably sourced though. Hope this helps, and don't let that big ol' lizard get you down.  :-)   74.192.84.101 (talk) 15:04, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

Hum....MONGO wonders what it tastes like. Probably a lot like wood.--MONGO 16:15, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

POV Reversion

As the reference is a government website and the edits contained no information about any persons living or dead, please explain why you reverted the edits for an alleged violation of BLP[8] Also explain why you added content not in the source provided after being informed it was not supported. Wayne (talk) 17:08, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

In light of your history of misuse of that page to violate BLP and promote fringe nonsense, which you also did at the Kerry and Kay Danes page, I find it impossible to AGF that your edits in such areas should stand.--MONGO 17:36, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

In other words you can't find any BLP violations with the edits. You cant revert reliably sourced edits simply because you don't like the editor. I remind you of WP:NPA, I was the one who requested that the Kerry and Kay Danes page be looked at for problems and Kerry Danes thanked me for my work there and while the Franklin page did have BLP problems I never promoted any fringe theories there as you well know. Wayne (talk) 15:47, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

My inability to AGF regarding your edits or saying that I can't AGF is not a personal attack. I will have time this weekend to trim the article substantially and we can reexamine your contributions there again. My emails from Kay Danes do not collaborate with what you are claiming, btw.--MONGO 16:04, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

You need to read the Danes Talk page. Kay Danes requested some changes, I made some she wanted and told her that for other requests not supported by sources that I'd "seek advice regarding what Wikipedia can or can not say" which I did here where I even admitted I needed help on WP policy, she replied "thank you for what you have been able to do here." I never took part in the Talk page discussion and made no further edits to the article. In that discussion nobody claimed there were BLP violations regarding the Danes as there was nothing negative about the them in the article, there were some BLP problems regarding other people in the "Background" section but that was irrelevant as the Danes were not mentioned there at all and the subjects were deceased. Jimbo deleted the "Background" section per BLP and later deleted all content but the lead saying that Kay Danes concerns should take precedence over COI and that the Danes' innocence was not made clear enough but that this material could be replaced via consensus if written more clearly. Making repeated derogatory comments about my participation in any article to discredit me is a PA. Wayne (talk) 18:21, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

Yes....Jimbo Wales blanked most of the article you had messed up to make it BLP compliant.....NuclearWarfare blanked most of the Franklin article you had messed up to make it BLP compliant. On 9/11 articles, I used to remove your conspiracy theory messes all the time...I can assemble the diffs if you want to tame a dance at an RfcU or at arbcom...I don't think you'll like the outcome. Any further article discussions need to take place on the article talkpages as I have them watchlisted.--MONGO 18:36, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

I see you reverted it again. What do you mean by the revert comment "impinging on a collective is still a BLP violation"? The edits simply say what the Foster Care Board did and what laws the Legislature passed as a result and did not mention any persons at all. Wayne (talk) 17:15, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

Attack of the pedant

Hello there,

Regarding your comment on the Jclemens arbitration request - actually, it's "core tenet".

Sorry :)

Best wishes, — Scott • talk 21:10, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

MONGO bad speller...bad MONGO.--MONGO 21:15, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

Your comment at the "Jclemens" case request

Hey Mongo. You might not been aware, but your comment goes beyond the 500-word limit that is allowed for each commenter at any Arbitration case request. However, we want to suggest you that instead of reducing your statement, use bullet points for the timeline of events, if that's okay with you.

Cheers. — ΛΧΣ²¹ 21:57, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

Wow...MONGO goof...will fix but inbetween signal spots..need few hours.--MONGO 22:13, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

Don't worry :) — ΛΧΣ²¹ 23:10, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

Re Rainbow Trout GAN

Mongo, thanks - my goal is to get the big four--rainbow, cutthroat, brown and brook trout articles up to GA status then start pushing for FAC. --Mike Cline (talk) 11:13, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

I won't step on tour toes with those as I did a bit with the Fort Yellowstone article...but will mention that keeping momentum is a good thing...one might take another of the articles you mention to GAC but return to the last one promoted to GA while the story is still fresh for the FAC push. Rainbow Trout is in excellent shape already...it's close to FA now.--MONGO 14:35, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Just requested Peer review on the Rainbow trout article. Am about ready with the Cutthroat trout article for a GA request. Hope you are having a good holiday. Thanks for all your support. --Mike Cline (talk) 15:00, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

I put the peer review on my watchlist.--MONGO 15:05, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

Happy Holidays

Thank you and hope the same for you as well!--MONGO 12:42, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

File an SPI

If you want to file an SPI on MilesMoney you are welcome to, but placing an accusatory template and category on his user page, and deleting his comments from another user's page is disruptive. Kindly stop it.- MrX 19:26, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

I can begin to see where you're coming from with the claim, but... I can't make a sockpuppet duck test judgement, I didn't know 24/7 that well. Looking back at his history isn't good enough.

Can you lay it out at an SPI or at least in better detail here?

Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 23:10, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

@MrX...you're right...but I thought the SPI was still open. The template however automagically adds the category to the page. Secondly, I can and will remove any harassment and trolling done by that user on Arthur's page.

@Georgewilliamherbert...a half dozen folks are working on the sock investigation offsite. The initial conclusion is that MilesMoney is StillStanding-247...who may also be a previous ban evader. If you want the details I can email them.--MONGO 23:55, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

Email away; will keep them confidential on-wiki etc, and if I am convinced I'm willing to act. But ya gotta convince me. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 01:25, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

See ARBCOM SevenOfDiamonds...I don't need checkuser to track. I'll be a day or three before it's ready--MONGO 02:11, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

If we were to pick this up after xmas, it would not be a tragedy, I think. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 05:23, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

About 4 accounts all edit from the same place it seems...the checkusers want behavioral evidence and that just takes longer to put together. Its not like they showed up to work on articles about butterflies or a mountain....they're all just POV pushers on political articles and related areas. They are what makes the website suck...I prefer dealing with teenage vandals frankly. Least the kids that edit Pokeman articles are earnest and sincere.--MONGO 05:39, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

I like the sound of this discussion. Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays whatever fits! Best,--NK (talk) 13:29, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

Best holiday gift in Wikipedia history!

This is Darwinbish happily looking forward to seeing MONGO open the box.

Season's greetings from Santa and her little helpers

Wow...best holiday cheer in Wikipedia history! Thank your very much Jurassic critters!--MONGO 14:30, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

Lookout! Stand clear when you open the box, Mr MONGO! darwin^fish 01:07, 26 December 2013 (UTC).

Darwinbish! It's been many moons since you last posted here...MONGO like gifts...but MONGO is ah, somewhat perplexed by grin of Darwinbish...hum. oh well...probably fine...--MONGO 02:37, 26 December 2013 (UTC)

Happy holiday season....

	Cheers, pina coladas all round!
	Damn need a few of these after a frenetic year and Xmas. Hope yours is a good one....Cheers, Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 10:06, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

Thank you very much Cas! MONGO never have such a drink...must try but have to avoid glassware store afterwards due to probable tipsiness after effects.--MONGO 12:24, 25 December 2013 (UTC)

Nadolig hapus

Martinevans123^{Santas Grotto} wishes you and yours

"Nadolig Llawen a Blwyddyn Newydd Dda"

---

May the true spirit of Christmas bless you with warmth and peace ....

Merry Christmas to you as well! Hope you and your family have a relaxing holiday season.--MONGO 14:47, 25 December 2013 (UTC)