User talk:Οἶδα

I grieve in stereo, you are invited to the Teahouse!

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I have sent you a note about a page you started

Thanks for creating Little Dark Age Tour.

User:Willsome429 while examining this page as a part of our page curation process had the following comments:

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Willsome429 (say hey or see my edits!) 16:15, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

• @Willsome429: Thanks! Do you think you could also review this page: Quichotte (novel). I grieve in stereo (talk) 18:17, 28 August 2019 (UTC)

The Day That Went Missing

Sorry for putting this in the wrong section before. My computer is in the shop and I am having trouble editing on my phone. Why did you change the name of the article and move it? Lilipo25 (talk) 02:54, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

• @Lilipo25: I moved the page because there's no other work that shares the title "The Day That Went Missing", so there's no need to add the book's subtitle to the article's title. see WP:BOOKS. I grieve in stereo (talk) 18:00, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

DYK for Ducks, Newburyport

On 14 September 2019, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Ducks, Newburyport, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the novel Ducks, Newburyport by Lucy Ellmann uses stream of consciousness narrative and mostly consists of a single sentence running over more than 1,000 pages? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Ducks, Newburyport. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Ducks, Newburyport), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:01, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	Thank you for quickly putting together a thorough article about House of Sugar the day after it was released. I hope you make many more album articles! Cloud atlas (talk) 05:15, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

"Columbiahalle" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Columbiahalle. Since you had some involvement with the Columbiahalle redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 20:50, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

Featuring your work on Wikipedia's front page: DYKs

Thank you for your recent articles, including Drive Your Plow Over the Bones of the Dead, which I read with interest. When you create an extensive and well referenced article, you may want to have it featured on Wikipedia's main page in the Did You Know section. Articles included there will be read by thousands of our viewers. To do so, add your article to the list at T:TDYK. Let me know if you need help, _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:38, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for letting me know! I grieve in stereo (talk) 05:42, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

Doxology

Thank you for your edits to Doxology! - Mainly 19:32, 29 September 2019 (UTC)

Of course! I grieve in stereo (talk) 19:44, 29 September 2019 (UTC)

I didn't realize how long you'd been editing when I left that message. Your work is great and I hope you stick around! Please let me know if there's anything I can ever do to help you as you continue to contribute. — Mainly 20:07, 1 October 2019 (UTC)

Will do! Thanks for the appreciation. I grieve in stereo (talk) 20:16, 1 October 2019 (UTC)

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A Dobos torte for you!

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OCLC usage on Frederick Douglass: Prophet of Freedom

Hi, I grieve in stereo. I think your removal of the OCLC number is most unfortunate. I will have to review the discussion that led to the documentation note that an OCLC number is only to be used in the absence of an ISBN. If I cannot find a sufficient reason, I will change the template documentation.

Consider:

• The OCLC that your removed led to a catalog record that lists several sources of ebooks & a free preview. ISBNs rarely do this, unless they are specifically for an ebook.
• Each OCLC catalog record usally contains a link to out editions or formats. Not so for an ISBN, which drives readers to a single edition. This is truly a diservice when an ISBN is for a reprint.
• Most people, when they get an ISBN, think of going to Amazon to get a book. Most libraries are free, & align with Wikipedia's purpose of freely providing knowledge. As Jimmy Wales put it: Imagine a world in which every single person on the planet is given free access to the sum of all human knowledge.

Please be mindful of this, & click on through to see the value of OCLC & other links before you remove them. Also remember WP:5P5.

Peaceray (talk) 05:27, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for your message, @Peaceray: I appreciate your thoughts on this matter and your effort to make the Wiki experience better for its readers. I understand WP:5P5 but the template's guidance is worded in a way that gave me the impression that the OCLC parameter is redundant to the ISBN. I hope the infobox template can be fixed to reflect otherwise. I will remember to include and not remove OCLC in the future. Thank you. I grieve in stereo (talk) 06:08, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

DYK for The Skull of Alum Bheg

On 26 January 2020, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article The Skull of Alum Bheg, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Kim A. Wagner wrote The Skull of Alum Bheg to tell the story of "thousands of Indian soldiers" who rebelled in 1857? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/The Skull of Alum Bheg. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, The Skull of Alum Bheg), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

 — Amakuru (talk) 12:02, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Editor of the Week

		Editor of the Week
		Your ongoing efforts to improve the encyclopedia have not gone unnoticed: You have been selected as Editor of the Week in recognition of your immediate editing prowess. Thank you for the great contributions! (courtesy of the Wikipedia Editor Retention Project)

User:Clovermoss submitted the following nomination for Editor of the Week:

I nominate I grieve in stereo for the Editor of the Week. This editor has made several valuable contributions since they first started editing in August, 2019 - including articles like Quichotte (novel), House of Sugar and Drive Your Plow Over the Bones of the Dead, a DYK for Ducks, Newburyport, and dozens upon dozens of improvements and page moves. In this short time they have made 11,500 edits with 82% in mainspace and 12% in Categories and categories talk.

You can copy the following text to your user page to display a user box proclaiming your selection as Editor of the Week:

{{User:UBX/EoTWBox}}

A Favored Image

I grieve in stereo

Editor of the Week for the week beginning February 9, 2020

A very busy start since Aug2019. Well written articles like Quichotte (novel), House of Sugar and Drive Your Plow Over the Bones of the Dead. 11,500 edits with 82% in mainspace and 12% in Categories and categories talk.

Recognized for

dozens upon dozens of improvements and page moves

Notable work(s)

DYK for Ducks and Newburyport

Submit a nomination

Thanks again for your efforts! ―Buster7 ☎ 19:10, 8 February 2020 (UTC)

Congrats!!!! Bobherry Talk Edits 02:19, 14 February 2020 (UTC)

Autopatrolled granted

Hi I grieve in stereo, I just wanted to let you know that I have added the "autopatrolled" permission to your account, as you have created numerous, valid articles. This feature will have no effect on your editing, and is simply intended to reduce the workload on new page patrollers. For more information on the autopatrolled right, see Wikipedia:Autopatrolled. However, you should consider adding relevant wikiproject talk-page templates, stub-tags and categories to new articles that you create if you aren't already in the habit of doing so, since your articles will no longer be systematically checked by other editors (User:Evad37/rater and User:SD0001/StubSorter.js are useful scripts which can help). Feel free to leave me a message if you have any questions. Happy editing! qedk (t 桜 c) 07:48, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

• Thank you!!! I grieve in stereo (talk) 08:00, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

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The Queens (Final entry in The Second Formic War Trilogy)

Hello, I see you helped edit the entry for The Hive. I am wondering if it's too soon to create an entry for the final book in the series, The Queens. The book is not released but there appears to be plenty of information out there. Perhaps the entry can contain recent developments/announcements? Just curious. I am considering creating the entry, but not if it's going to be deleted.

CJHuxley (talk) 00:29, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Hi @CJHuxley:! I don't think the article would be allowed to stay up as it seems to fail WP:BKCRIT as of right now. I believe it's too soon as I cannot find any sources reliable sources that speak of its content or its publication etc. I grieve in stereo (talk) 02:35, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Understood. I'll just circle back to this later. Perhaps after the book is released.

CJHuxley (talk) 23:43, 7 April 2020 (UTC)

Featuring your work on Wikipedia's front page: DYKs

Thank you for your recent articles, including Tranquility (novel), which I read with interest. When you create an extensive and well referenced article, you may want to have it featured on Wikipedia's main page in the Did You Know section. Articles included there will be read by thousands of our viewers. To do so, add your article to the list at T:TDYK. Let me know if you need help, _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 02:55, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

Much appreciated! I grieve in stereo (talk) 02:58, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

Hidden Valley Road

Thank you for your work on this page!

No problem! Thanks for your appreciation. I grieve in stereo (talk) 18:53, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Writer's Barnstar
	Keep up the great work on writing and expanding articles about fiction like Out of Shadows. Sadads (talk) 00:18, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

Help

Hi, I need assistance. I misplaced my password to this account. I did not have an e-mail connected to it so I was unable to recover it. I made a few edits without an account and now, after reading Help:Logging in#What if I forget the password?, decided now to make a new account. I need help to carry the content and history of my user page and user talk page over to my new account: Οἶδα (talk) 20:08, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

There is no e-mail connected to your new account either. I recommend fixing this now, to prevent it from happening again. As there is no way for me to verify your identity, I'm reluctant to perform the move on your behalf. Perhaps someone else will do it, so I'll keep the request open. I'll add a "checkuser needed" here to see if they can help. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 21:50, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

I have now linked my e-mail! But I'm pretty sure my IP is dynamic and has since changed. Οἶδα (talk) 02:20, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

What you ask isn't usually done, for the reasons TBF stated. Typically, a user that creates a new account due to losing access to a prior account simply identifies their new account as a successor to their old account and perhaps links to the user pages of that old account. 331dot (talk) 07:27, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

I'm marking this as "answered" for now. The "checkuser needed" might eventually cause someone with the needed technical insight to approve your request. The section at Help:Logging in should probably be changed to match the actual situation. It is not a policy or guideline and may simply be incorrect. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 10:50, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

Fixed in Special:Diff/964386373/968276370. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 10:54, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

@ToBeFree: @331dot: Thank you for your responses. So what are my options? Am I allowed to redirect these pages myself (now that I am autoconfirmed) to my new account or is that not permitted? Οἶδα (talk) 20:55, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

The request for checkuser has not been answered yet; the situation may change until the red flag icon is removed and the technical aspect of the request is answered. Until then, there is no final answer and I recommend waiting. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 20:56, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

Additional note: Normally, redirecting another user's talk page (and that's what you technically do, lacking access to the account of someone who could also be deceased or on vacation) is not something one is allowed to do. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 20:59, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

Got it, I'll wait for the Checkuser. Thanks for the speedy reply. As I said previously though my IP changes so, reading over WP:CHK, I'm not sure if checkuser will be of any help. I just want to have my older user page and talk page on my new pages somehow. And preferably to have it known here as well so users don't attempt to reply to me here. Οἶδα (talk) 21:06, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

Checkusers could, for example, verify that you are using the same provider and the same browser user agent. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 22:03, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

I'm not a checkuser and so will leave the "CU needed" flag alone, but I doubt this would be granted. Just redirect the user and talk pages, declare the relationship on your new userpage, and call it a day. GeneralNotability (talk) 20:25, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Οἶδα, are you able to use your current account with your phone? That could be used to some degree to help authenticate that you are this same person because I can compare it to I grieve in stereo's phone. ToBeFree, Οἶδα is indeed in the same ranges as this editor and I can come back and check after they have used their phone to make an edit. Then I can authenticate them.
 — Berean Hunter (talk) 11:32, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

I've made an edit with my phone. Hope that helps. Οἶδα (talk) 17:40, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

It sure does. For ToBeFree and others interested, I would call this  Confirmed that they are the same.
 — Berean Hunter (talk) 19:41, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

A possibly rare exception made possible by technical confirmation. Moved, merged, redirected. Thank you very much, Berean Hunter. 🙂 ~ ToBeFree (talk) 21:28, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Thank you!!! Οἶδα (talk) 21:42, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

No problem from my side. :) ~ ToBeFree (talk) 09:02, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

Non fiction?

Hey, is this book really non-fiction? [1] Is there a way to check how law libraries categorize this work? I am under the distinct impression that the book is nothing but jokes meant to seem real enough to rubes. Geographyinitiative (talk) 10:41, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi @Geographyinitiative: I may have read that article wrong. From the description on that article I took "humorous" to mean it is a compendium of humorous laws, not that they are fictional laws presented for humorous effect. "Non-fiction" does include works presented and asserted as fact even when prevailing information indicates otherwise. But I am having trouble finding more information about the book. Perhaps it's best to move it back to the main 1976 books category for now? Οἶδα (talk) 11:10, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

I agree with moving it back, but the real, deeper question is: is any of the content of the book real? Is there a way to know? Is there a law help desk on Wikipedia? Geographyinitiative (talk) 11:14, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

I wouldn't know more about the book. Sorry! Maybe if more information about the book and its author could be found. And there is a Humanities reference desk that could perhaps help but I have never used it. Οἶδα (talk) 11:20, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Dreamland (Glass Animals album) has been accepted

Dreamland (Glass Animals album), which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

Congratulations, and thank you for helping expand the scope of Wikipedia! We hope you will continue making quality contributions.

The article has been assessed as C-Class, which is recorded on its talk page. This is a great rating for a new article, and places it among the top 20% of accepted submissions — kudos to you! You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article.

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Thanks again, and happy editing!

Nathan2055^{talk - contribs} 20:13, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

Creating navigational templates

Hi Οἶδα. I recently noticed you created Template:Glass Animals with only three articles to link to. A good rule of thumb (though not a policy) to follow is WP:NENAN—unless there are at least five articles to link to, it's probably unnecessary to create a template just yet. At least for Glass Animals at the present moment, readers could easily navigate between their three albums by clicking to the next in the infobox. Anyway, just a note to bear in mind for the future. (Just a note: I've turned pings off, so replies won't work.) Ss112 06:09, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for informing me! I was unaware of this. I'll remember this going forward. Οἶδα (talk) 06:12, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Liberal Privilege

It looks like you have consensus to move that article, and it's been over 7 days. Next step? - AppleBsTime (talk) 19:37, 16 September 2020 (UTC)

I usually just wait for a reviewer to process the request or re-list it if they believe a consensus hasn't been reached. It will probably be processed shortly. Οἶδα (talk) 01:28, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

Do you know how one becomes a "reviewer"? That sounds like a fun job on Wikipedia. - AppleBsTime (talk) 13:36, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

Anyone can close a move request, but you should be a third party who is not involved in the requested move. However, in my experience it tends to be admins who close requested moves. see Wikipedia:RMCI for more info. Οἶδα (talk) 21:16, 17 September 2020 (UTC)

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Featuring your work on Wikipedia's front page: DYKs

Thank you for your recent articles, including The Books of Jacob, which I read with interest. When you create an extensive and well referenced article, you may want to have it featured on Wikipedia's main page in the Did You Know section. Articles included there will be read by thousands of our viewers. To do so, add your article to the list at T:TDYK. This can be also done through this helpful user script: User:SD0001/DYK-helper. Let me know if you need help, _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 8:16, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Matt Taibbi

Thanks for the correction. I really do understand the difference between baseball and basketball; I just am due an eye test Mark^Dask 21:11, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

hehe, no problem. I need a few tests myself. Οἶδα (talk) 21:20, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

ITN recognition for Shuggie Bain

On 23 November 2020, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Shuggie Bain, which you created. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page.  — Amakuru (talk) 19:43, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

• Nice work on creating a clean article! Ktin (talk) 19:45, 23 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Thank you and I appreciate your additions to the article! Οἶδα (talk) 19:49, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

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Category: First person narrative novels

Hi Οἶδα. I came here because you created the Category:Nonlinear narrative novels. I wanted to ask you that should we create category for First (& second) person narrative novels ? What you think ? --Gazal world (talk) 08:00, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

Hi @Gazal world: I believe such a category would be appropriate. We already have categories sorting novels by other narrative techniques, and the respective narrative point of view is one of the foremost defining aspects of a literary work. There is certainly variation that exists within literature, but works can generally be classified into First, Second, and Third-person narratives. This would likely create large categories (particularly in First and Third-person), but I believe it would be appropriate. I have started with Category:First-person narrative novels. Οἶδα (talk) 14:43, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

Wow. Thanks for creating the first person narrative novel. I will add it in relevant articles. We should also create category for second person narrative, as it is rarely used technique. We will create the category for third person later. --Gazal world (talk) 15:05, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

No problem! I appreciate your contributions. Οἶδα (talk) 15:07, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

You are also doing wonderful work, bro. I just realized that we should also create a category for Stream of consciousness novels. Could you create it please? --Gazal world (talk) 15:19, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

Done. Category:Stream of consciousness novels.

Just came across to another category which need to be created: novels with Multiple narrators. But I have only one in mind: Yayati (novel). --Gazal world (talk) 21:00, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

Yes! I was thinking the same thing when I previously created an article for a novel with multiple narrators. Although, I believe this will typically overlap with Category:First-person narrative novels. Here is the new category: Category:Novels with multiple narrators. Οἶδα (talk) 21:39, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your quick responses. Category:First-person narrative novels also overlaps with Category:Autobiographical novels. --Gazal world (talk) 21:53, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Indian memoirs

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January 2021

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klara and the sun

Hope you're well. Saw you'd created the redirect for klara and the sun some time ago , and thought I'd let you know outlets have begun publishing reviews if you're interested in writing the article. — Mainly 17:33, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

Much appreciated; hope you are also doing well. I have yet to read the new Ishiguro, but it does sound intriguing! I'll draft a functional article shortly. Οἶδα (talk) 19:05, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

DYK for Nick (novel)

On 24 March 2021, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Nick (novel), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the novel Nick was written in 2015 but could not be published until after the copyright of The Great Gatsby expired in 2021? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Nick (novel). You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Nick (novel)), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (ie, 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

 — Amakuru (talk) 12:02, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Congratulations

Your DYK hook about Nick (novel) drew 8,421 page views (702 per hour) while on the Main Page. It is one of the most viewed hooks for the month of March as shown at March 2021 DYK STATS. Keep up the great work! Cbl62 (talk) 18:29, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

Thanks! Οἶδα (talk) 18:30, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

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Featuring your work on Wikipedia's front page: DYKs

Thank you for your recent articles, including House of Day, House of Night, which I read with interest. When you create an extensive and well referenced article, you may want to have it featured on Wikipedia's main page in the Did You Know section. Articles included there will be read by thousands of our viewers. To do so, add your article to the list at T:TDYK. This can be also done through this helpful user script: User:SD0001/DYK-helper. Let me know if you need help, _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:37, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

Nihongo krt

Thank you for making use of the Nihongo krt template!

I made it, so I'm really excited to see it being used by other people! Kanji first!

JKVeganAbroad (talk) 10:02, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for making it! Οἶδα (talk) 16:56, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

Some bubble tea for you!

Thanks for creating Last and First Men (film). Nice work. Ashleyyoursmile! 09:46, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

Hi Οἶδα. Just curious if you have plans to nominate the article at the WP:DYK? It is new, well-written, long enough, and appears to be potentially hooky to me. --Ashleyyoursmile! 10:08, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, Ashleyyoursmile! I do not have any plans to nominate the article. Οἶδα (talk) 19:49, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

"Untitled Velvet Underground documentary" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Untitled Velvet Underground documentary. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 June 6#Untitled Velvet Underground documentary until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. UnitedStatesian (talk) 18:22, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

DYK for Peace or Love

On 18 July 2021, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Peace or Love, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Peace or Love (2021), the first album by the Norwegian duo Kings of Convenience in twelve years, was recorded five times? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Peace or Love. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Peace or Love), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

 — Amakuru (talk) 12:02, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

Stand for Myself

I having trouble adding Rolling Stone, Uncut, and Mojo because their reviews are written in magazine format. Can you add them in the article? TheAmazingPeanuts (talk) 07:12, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

Done! Οἶδα (talk) 16:45, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

Thanks. TheAmazingPeanuts (talk) 17:39, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

Paulsen bibliography sources

After another editor complained about the lack of sources in the Gary Paulsen bibliography article I added https://www.fantasticfiction.com/p/gary-paulsen/. I noticed that you've done most of the editing on the page. If you used another source you might want to add it. Regards, Dan Bloch (talk) 02:56, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Most of the list is copied from an older edit in the author article's page history, which was unsourced. I added some of the missing titles, which were mostly the recent publications from the 2010s, using Goodreads and FictionDB. The Fantastic Fiction author page seems to cover all of those titles though. It should be sufficient as is. Thanks! Οἶδα (talk) 03:19, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

DYK for Green to Gold (album)

On 24 October 2021, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Green to Gold (album), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the Antlers' 2021 album Green to Gold was made after lead singer Peter Silberman suffered temporary total hearing loss and lesions on his vocal cords? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Green to Gold (album). You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Green to Gold (album)), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Vanamonde (Talk) 00:03, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

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ITN recognition for 2021 Booker Prize

On 5 November 2021, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article 2021 Booker Prize, which you updated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. Stephen 20:11, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

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Ways to improve About Joan

Hello, Οἶδα,

Thank you for creating About Joan.

I have tagged the page as having some issues to fix, as a part of our page curation process and note that:

Needs details of reviews in reliable sources when available

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, leave a comment here and begin it with {{Re|Atlantic306}}. Remember to sign your reply with ~~~~. For broader editing help, please visit the Teahouse.

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Atlantic306 (talk) 00:23, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

97.116. IP

I think we need to be rangeblocking in this situation. Sadly, they're on the whole /16 when I pull up range calculator: 97.116.0.0/16 (block range · block log (global) · WHOIS (partial)), which has a bit of collateral. Mass rollback probably needed too, ex. on contributions of 97.116.125.103 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log). wizzito | say hello! 09:20, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

I figured as much. They never stop, never communicate, and the changes are wholly arbitrary. I was hoping to bring it up on a noticeboard but have been busy lately. Οἶδα (talk) 13:58, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Cafés in Hungary

A tag has been placed on Category:Cafés in Hungary indicating that it is currently empty, and is not a disambiguation category, a category redirect, a featured topics category, under discussion at Categories for discussion, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If it remains empty for seven days or more, it may be deleted under section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:11, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

Autopatrolled granted

Hi Οἶδα, I just wanted to let you know that I have added the "autopatrolled" permission to your account, as you have created numerous, valid articles. This feature will have no effect on your editing, and is simply intended to reduce the workload on new page patrollers. For more information on the autopatrolled right, see Wikipedia:Autopatrolled. However, you should consider adding relevant wikiproject talk-page templates, stub-tags and categories to new articles that you create if you aren't already in the habit of doing so, since your articles will no longer be systematically checked by other editors (User:Evad37/rater and User:SD0001/StubSorter.js are useful scripts which can help). Feel free to leave me a message if you have any questions. Happy editing! Schwede66 10:13, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

Sea of tranquility

I am not very knowledgeable about disambiguation, but may I ask whether your recent move of Sea of Tranquility (novel) is really the best option as a 2003 novel by Lesley Choy with the same name also exists? Thanks for considering this! ~~~~ WatkynBassett (talk) 06:42, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Hi there. We typically do not disambiguate articles from other topics of which there are no existing articles. Unless if there is another topic which calls into question what the primary topic is. I believe that is not relevant in this case as Mandel's novel appears by all metrics to be the primary topic. In fact, Choyce's novel does not appear to even meet the notability guidelines for books and such an article for Choyce's novel would be deleted accordingly. Οἶδα (talk) 07:01, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Thanks you very much! This makes perfect sense! WatkynBassett (talk) 07:20, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

No problem, thanks for inquiring! Οἶδα (talk) 07:24, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Lapvona

Not sure if you have read any of the reviews (or the book) but the tide really has turned against Ottessa! — Mainly 17:59, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

I haven't had the pleasure (or displeasure) of reading it yet! I almost forgot it was coming out. The reviews read as fairly polarizing. I'm interested how its unrestrained grotesque develops its characters and the overarching fable. I have long admired her skill in writing unlikable characters, but even I must worry that she's misstepped. Οἶδα (talk) 20:15, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Let me know if you get around to it! Going to pick it up for a trip later this month. — Mainly 17:15, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for September 7

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Train Dreams

I grieve in stereo: I am about to add some sections regarding critical assessment and theme for the article Train Dreams, by Denis Johnson. You added the plot section recently, and it has been flagged as "too long." I, too, have written longer than recommended plot summaries, not a crime. As Train Dreams is a novella, and only 115 pages in length, I wrote a more abbreviated Plot section. Please take a look at it and tell me you'd support substituting it for the one you wrote. It won't be flagged for length:

PLOT:

Johnson tells the story from a third-person omniscient point-of-view.

Robert Grainier, a semi-skilled construction laborer and lumberjack, is the focal character. The narrative presents a series of non-chronological vignettes from Grainier’s life spanning over eighty years.  Born in 1886 and orphaned at six-years-of-age, the events unfold in the vicinity of the remote, densely forested Idaho Panhandle. Grainier lives the life of an itinerant loner until he marries Gladys Olding at the age of 32. The couple’s only child is the infant Kate.

The novella’s key episodes include Grainier’s participation with a group of white workers to murder a Chinese railway laborer accused of theft; the death of Grainier’s young wife and infant daughter in a catastrophic forest fire which destroys their cabin; and Grainier’s failure as a boy to seek help for a mortality wounded man, abandoning him to die alone.  He is haunted by these events to the end of his life.

Numerous colorful characters from Grainier’s life appear in the novella, among them: An aged lumberjack, Arn Peeples, once a “jim-crack” sawyer who is killed by a “widow-maker”; a chance encounter with Elvis Presley; a man whose dog purportedly shot him in self-defense with a rifle; an indigenous man, Kootenai Bob, a teetotaler throughout his life, struck by a locomotive after taking his first drink; and a number of dogs and half-wolves Grainier lives with in his cabin.

After the loss of his wife and child, Grainier lives the life of a hermit. He died alone in his cabin in the fall of 1968 at the age of 82.  A pair of hikers discover his corpse the following spring. They bury him on the property, assisted by the doctor who issues the death certificate. CerroFerro (talk) 17:53, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

I have truncated parts of my original summary while keeping elements I believe are essential to Johnson's plot and character development. Even as a brief novella, its prose is highly concentrated. Neglecting its elements of magic realism would be a mistake in my view. I believe the in-universe perspective works in this case, but feel free to change it if you feel necessary. Οἶδα (talk) 22:54, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

Well done! I agree with your assessment that Johnson's work is "highly concentrated", possessing "elements of magic realism." I am collecting material to create articles for a number of his novels and short stories. I welcome your collaboration on these efforts. I recently posted a new article The Laughing Monsters. Seems strange that a major American literary figure has received so little attention at Wikipedia. Best regards. --CerroFerro (talk) 14:43, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

Thank you very much! I have always wondered why Johnson's work is underrepresented, especially his later works. I started drafting an article for Already Dead once but forgot to complete it. I appreciate you helping to give his work the coverage it deserves! His style was truly unique and his prose exquisite. Οἶδα (talk) 03:16, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Dear Οἶδα: Your improvements on the Denis Johnson have not gone unnoticed nor unappreciated. Thank you for your collaboration. You mentioned that you had been "drafting an article for Already Dead." I don't have the novel in front of me, but if you can provide a Plot section, I have a few sources to write the Lede/Critical Assess/Theme sections. Let me know.

I am currently finishing up a new article for Johnson's Nobody Move, Plot is drafted, but kindly make alterations as you see fit when you review it. --CerroFerro (talk) 17:12, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

Sounds great! I did not have a draft saved for Already Dead but I drew up a quick synopsis and created Already Dead: A California Gothic. The novel arguably has one of his more confusing plots, making it harder to provide a full representation of the work. I appreciate all the work you have done!. Οἶδα (talk) 02:27, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay in getting back: I operate off of WIFI in strange places, similar to the social landscapes Johnson describes in his work. With your contributions, Οἶδα, a "proper" acknowledgment of Johnson is taking shape. His writing has languished too long at Wikipedia. Allow me to add that I am not a "fan" of the author. Rather, I wish to see Wikipedia function as a reliable source for significant figures in literature, of which Johnson is one. The reason for the delay in developing articles on Johnson's oeuvre is that no exhaustive analysis on his life and literary output has been published. I expect this will be corrected in the near future.

I have located a number of articles on Johnson's poetry collections. One remarkable essay is by Jay Deshpande of the Poetry Foundation. Were you aware that Johnson had written a number of sonnets? I was not. --CerroFerro (talk) 18:09, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

I agree wholeheartedly, and commend your editing philosophy. I was aware that Johnson had ventured into poetry at a very young age but I personally have not yet accessed any of his poetic works. Οἶδα (talk) 20:49, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

If you'd care to visit the following Userpage, you may find it amusing: User:Lord Such&Such. And from literary critic John Berger from his 1981 essay "Modigliani's Alphabet of Love":

"I would not suggest that the entire secret of Modigliani’s art or of what his paintings say is identical to the secret of being in love. But the two do have something in common. And it may be this which has escaped the art theorists, but not those who pin up in their rooms postcards of Amadeo Modigliani’s paintings."--CerroFerro (talk) 16:59, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

Modigliani's expression of compassion and tenderness for the people he painted is felt in every one of his portraits. And from Roger Fry in his 1919 essay "Line as a Means of Expression in Modern Art":

"His notion of plasticity appears as uniform and unvaried. All relief has for him the same geometrical section, and his effect is got by the arrangement of a number of essentially similar units. But two qualities save Modigliani from the dryness and deadness which might result from so deliberately mathematical a conception of the nature of form. One is the delicate sensibility which he shows in the statements of this simplified form, so that in spite of its apparent uniformity it has none of the deadness of an abstract intellectual concept. The beautiful variety and play of his surfaces is one of the remarkable things about Modigliani's art, and shows that his sculptor's sense of formal unity is crossed with a painter's feelings for surfaces." Οἶδα (talk) 20:14, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

Touché, camarade.--CerroFerro (talk) 16:32, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for October 8

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John Cheever articles, cover images

Hi Οἶδα - Two questions. I notice that your infobox contributions are very complete. I've struggled to find OCLC, Library of Congress, and so on. World Cat doesn't seem to supply much info. What is your source?

Secondly, my recent attempts to load book cover images for The Brigadier and the Golf Widow (short story collection) and The Way Some People Live have been blocked. The same procedure I've used successfully for years has failed. Do you know of a Wiki Commons editor who might help me clear up this issue? CerroFerro (talk) 17:41, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi CerroFerro! The OCLC Classify website is what I use. Just search by title and author then select the right work, which is typically the top result. Then scroll the bottom and select the right edition; the first edition is typically the top result. Clicking the entry will bring you to WorldCat, and the OCLC Number will be at end of the URL (and below when you click "Show more information"). The Library of Congress Classification is found at the LC Catalog, where you can search for the book and click on the right one. There is usually two entries, one for digital and print. The print entry usually has the full LC Classification that I use.

If a book cover does not meet the threshold of originality needed for copyright protection, and is therefore in the public domain, it can be uploaded to Wikimedia Commons. Otherwise, you must upload the covers as non-free use on Wikipedia. I believe the cover of Brigadier and the Golf Widow could probably be uploaded to Wikimedia, but I don't think the cover of The Way Some People Live can because of the Random House logo. You can always copy the source of a Wikimedia file like this or a non-free Wiki file like this and use it as a template. Just change the text accordingly. Οἶδα (talk) 21:36, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for your thoughtful and informative response. As to the Wiki Commons issue, the second example you provided (a Paul Bowles collection) was, in fact, uploaded by "yours truly" i.e., me. I used precisely the same Non-free method, but it was blocked. The CerroFerro account has come under attack by Wiki Commons in the past, not sure why this would occur in this case.

Did you post the "citation needed" requests on the two most recently posted Cheever collections? If you wish, I can provide a sentence by sentence citation, but I felt that the citation at the end of the paragraph would be sufficient to cover the entire paragraph. If that is not self-evident, I shall gladly add them. --CerroFerro (talk) 17:15, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

The Paul Bowles file is not a Wikimedia Commons file. Non-free files like that must be uploaded at the Wikipedia upload form. Are you sure uploaded it here on Wikipedia and not Wikimedia Commons?

And I did not add the "citation needed" templates. That would be user Bennv123. Οἶδα (talk) 19:29, 19 November 2022 (UTC)

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ITN recognition for Jeremiah Green

On 2 January 2023, In the news was updated with an item that involved the article Jeremiah Green, which you updated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the candidates page. Spencer^T•C 03:40, 2 January 2023 (UTC)

Pale Horse, Pale Rider - K. A. Porter

Dear Οἶδα - Can you make a quick fix to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Pale_Horse,_Pale_Rider, regarding title correction. I will soon be writing an article for the short novel of the same title, and it will clash with existing collection title.

Q: Are you fluent in language of Homer? CerroFerro (talk) 17:51, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

Ancient Greek? No, unfortunately not. I did however read translations of the Iliad and Odyssey when I was a young collégien. Οἶδα (talk) 06:52, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

		The Helping Hand Barnstar
		You have long deserved this Barnstar. CerroFerro (talk) 17:23, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

Non(-)fiction

I see the point of the RM, but I suggest it would be clearer if you specified the term to which you (do not) propose moving it, rather than leaving it to the reader to work out that this is a discussion purely between "nonfiction" and "non-fiction". Thanks. PamD 10:27, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

New Wiki article formatting

What do you think of the new formatting recently installed? As a content contributor, rather than an editor, I find it constrictive in the extreme.

Is there a way to remove the sidebars while reading the article? Good lord! CerroFerro (talk) 19:28, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

Not a fan. There is an extreme amount of WHITE SPACE. Why is the content in a thin strip down the middle, with over 50% of the screen being used for absolutely nothing? Having the table of contents to one side isn't terrible itself, but the way it's displayed could have been better and closer to the old appearance instead of so much white, and without needing to manually expand each one. Too many websites are redesigning to look like ugly mobile sites and absurdly forcing it upon desktop users. Oddly enough, they spent an entire decade on it. And a 90,000-word-long discussion on whether the resdesign should be default. Fortunately you can go to Preferences and select the Vector legacy (2010) skin and click save at the bottom of the page, which I did almost immediately upon being rolled over to Vector 2022! Οἶδα (talk) 20:32, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

I've done the same, and my thanks. If there is a mass desertion to the 2010 format, the Wiki Establishment see the error of their ways. Don't hold your breath.

And a question: Are familiar with Wikisource? I am planning to create an article on collection of short stories by Joseph Conrad, namely Youth, a Narrative and Two Other Stories. A Wikisource exists here: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Youth:_a_Narrative,_and_Two_Other_Stories

Will I come into conflict with this existing material if I create an article of the same title" Or do I need to adapt the Wikisource material? Would like to just ignore it. --CerroFerro (talk) 17:05, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

I am roughly familiar with Wikisource. It is a separate project of the Wikimedia Foundation, so an article about the collection will not conflict with the source text uploaded there. But of course, links to the Wikisource text can be included in your Wikipedia article. Similar to how they are linked in the Heart of Darkness article. Οἶδα (talk) 20:24, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

The Guardian

Hi, what is the issue with using The Guardian music reviews as a source? Referring to their review of Young Fathers - "Heavy Heavy". Thanks! Countrybeef (talk) 15:40, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

@Countrybeef: No issue with using The Guardian as a source. The issue is that you cited it as being reviewed by The Guardian, which is not exactly accurate. It was published by The Observer, a sister newspaper to the Guardian that is hosted through the Guardian website. It's a very common mistake made by Wiki editors, as the difference is typically signified only by a small The Observer that appears above article headlines or right below the article. For example, if you ever see a review written by Kitty Empire, that's an Observer review. Whereas anything written by Alexis Petridis is through The Guardian. Sometimes both newspapers even publish reviews of the same releases, for example see this article vs this one. Οἶδα (talk) 17:17, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification. I learned something new today! Countrybeef (talk) 17:39, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

No problem. Thanks for reaching out! Οἶδα (talk) 17:41, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

Your edits to James Cook

Hello there,

I apologise for reverting your edit without sufficient justification. I usually put a message of the user's Talk page, but I was too slow doing it this time because I was watching the cricket and something exciting happened. I've put an explanation on the talk page. I think the culture section of this article is poor, and I hope to work on it when I get some time. I'd be happy to work with you to improve it. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 07:49, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

I appreciate the message! Οἶδα (talk) 08:24, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Writer's Barnstar
	for expanding The Story of a Brief Marriage. ​​​​​​​𝐋𝐨𝐫𝐝𝐕𝐨𝐥𝐝𝐞𝐦𝐨𝐫𝐭𝟕𝟐𝟖🧙‍♂️Let's Talk ! 04:14, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

Attribution at The Story of a Brief Marriage

Apologies for my neglect in checking the page history here, somehow I missed your addition of atrribution. Sorry for the mistake and thank you for correcting. VickKiang (talk) 21:41, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

No worries. Thank you for reaching out! Οἶδα (talk) 21:43, 27 February 2023 (UTC)

Categories

Hello, Οἶδα,

Do you have a good reason for emptying out dozens and dozens of categories about foreign-language novels and books? If you believe they should be deleted, please make a bundled nomination at WP:CFD. What you are doing is called "emptying out of process" and can be considered disruptive and your edits reverted.

Please slow down and consider how your massive recategorization is affecting the category structure that currently exists on Wikipedia. Just look at Special:UnusedCategories and see all of the categories that have been emptied in the past day. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:33, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

I appreciate the message, Liz. As I had already mentioned on the user's talk page, this is overcategorization. These are all new categories that were created by that user in the last month. It seems the user mistakenly believed that every single novel they come across that is categorized only within a year category, and not within a year+country category, should be further subdivided into such a newly created category. I would contend that user actually needed to consider how their massive recategorization affects the category structure that currently exists on Wikipedia. I am merely moving the novels back into the main year category and adding the preexisting century+country category. The country categories for novels are normally subdivided by genres and by time. I see no reason why the century+country category does not suffice alongside the main year category. You would be needlessly creating hundreds of single-novel categories with no potential for growth. Most preexisting year categories that have been subdivided by country have been created for a reason. A subcategory such as Category:2008 American novels has over 350 pages. If an article for a novel from Turkmenistan is created tomorrow, should I create Category:2023 Turkmenistani novels? I don't see how Category:1949 Cuban novels or Category:1924 Georgian novels are any different. These are single-novel catgeories with no potential for growth. Not to mention such intersections clutter up the page's category list. Both hallmarks of overcategorization. Οἶδα (talk) 06:19, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

"Monika Willi" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Monika Willi has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Anyone, including you, is welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 March 13 § Monika Willi until a consensus is reached. Nardog (talk) 02:31, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Matt Taibbi

My edit was properly sourced and summarized what Taibbi actually said about an important subject. I'm not seeing the NPOV violation. — Red XIV ^(talk) 01:51, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

With all due respect @Redxiv:, I suspect you do see. You cited a New Republic opinion piece which included the quote of Taibbi as saying: "If presidents think they will be chased into jail under thin pretexts as ex-presidents, they'll try even harder to never leave office. This is how autocracies are born." You summarized this as: "Taibbi said that holding former presidents accountable for crimes would lead to autocracy". While I appreciate the cheeky framing, this unfortunately does not adhere to Wikipedia's neutrality guidelines. Conveniently worded or not, "chased into jail under thin pretexts" and "[held] accountable for crimes" are not exactly the same. A cursory glance into your editing history shows you have a history of this sort of irreverant editorial bias. And if you are perceptive enough to make arguments like this[2] or this[3], then I think you can also understand how you fell short of achieving a neutral point of view. Regardless, I would actually opt to not even include this because adding every opinion Taibbi espouses on Twitter into his Wiki article is an example of what Wikipedia is WP:NOT. Οἶδα (talk) 05:37, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

"The" New York Times

I saw you recent mass moves of Lists of The New York Times number-one books and the individual years. Was there any consensus reached for these moves anywhere? Such a large and significant restructuring seems to be within the scope of a controversial or potentially controversial move, especially adding the word "The" and removing the words "best seller". Cerebral726 (talk) 12:46, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

No. But I'm not convinced the pages were ever created in line with any consensus. They have always been a neglected mess, and they barely existed before random users were more recently convinced to create the missing pages linked at the Lists pages. Until we ended up with nearly 150 poorly-sourced and poorly-attended-to articles. And I believe you are mistaken. Any article originally titled "List of number-one New York Times best sellers of [Year]" was recently moved there by me, before I moved them again to their current titles. The articles were previously all titled "The New York Times Fiction Best Sellers of [Year]" or "The New York Times Nonfiction Best Sellers of [Year]". So I did not add the word "The". And there are countless issues with these titles. The improper capitalization to start. The second issue being that they are list articles and as such should start with "List of". And no one even considered tackling this until 2023. Ask yourself why that is. Not to mention "Nonfiction" and "Fiction" are misleading because there are more than one list for both. There are actually numerous NYT lists and we do not need individual articles for them all. The third issue was that they are simply incorrect. They are not merely lists of the best sellers–that would entail a massive list–but are specifically lists of the books that topped the list at number one, and should be named to reflect that.

The fourth issue was that they are lists of "books", and should be named to reflect that. "Best sellers" is vague and not standard in these type of top lists articles. I looked to record chart list articles, which are more reliable. Articles like List of Billboard 200 number-one albums. I considered the titles for a while and I believe these titles are the most accurate. There are countless options for "bestselling", "best-selling", "best sellers", "best seller list", "bestseller list" etc etc. And none of them particularly helpful. However, feel free to contest the changes if you believe these articles are better-titled something else. But I am not convinced a title like List of The New York Times Best Seller list number-one best-selling books of 2023 is more accurate or helpful in any way. If you do, then pursue that. There are other issues but I digress. Οἶδα (talk) 20:15, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

Charles Baxter

Greetings Οἶδα The long and short fiction of Charles Baxter recently came to my attention. His oeuvre seems to be neglected on Wiki. I've searched but have not located any bibliography of published studies on his work. Do you know of any? Best Regards. CerroFerro (talk) 17:51, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

Hi CerroFerro! I am unfamiliar with Baxter's work. The Hollins Critic published an interesting coverage of his work in 2000. There was also a profile by Don Lee published in Ploughshares. But I too am unable to find any deeper studies of his work. Οἶδα (talk) 20:29, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for your links.. I was intrigued by a sentence from his novel The Sun Collective (2020): "...the uneasy intelligence of someone what has no illusions to comfort him." https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/02/05/inte-f05.html --CerroFerro (talk) 17:27, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

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Lewis Milestone & Talk

Greetings Οἶδα: As you may recall, we've collaborated on a number of articles, notably the novels and short stories of Denis Johnson, among others. You know my methods.

Can you tell me if the term "a mess" is an official designation for a Wiki article? A complaint has been posted that the "tone" of the article in question is therefore "a mess": no further explanation has been forthcoming, no examples from the text provided to demonstrate such. Perhaps you can provide some insights into this matter. CerroFerro (talk) 18:28, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi CerroFerro! "A mess" is obviously not the most constructive criticism. Looking over the edit history and talk page, it appears users are taking issue with User Lord Such&Such's expansion of the article. Specifically, the language of the article has been stated as being the problem. They have not expanded much on their complaints, but I would suspect they take issue with the article's unconventional presentation of information. Although very readable and resembling the qualities of a published biography, the article's tone occasionally strays from the Wikipedia encyclopedic standard, which is typified by a more "businesslike" tone. However, I don't believe the article is deeply flawed in a way that can't be remedied with general copyediting. I think the article for John Huston is a good comparison. Οἶδα (talk) 06:38, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

As always,Οἶδα. we can depend on you for a measured appraisal.

The only information I possess when writing an article, or making a major reedit, are the critics and biographers who consider the topic worthy of their attention. I eschew hagiography, but I depend upon - wisely, I believe, these sources that allow me to develop a "very readable" and I trust, informative article. If any element of the article is "deeply flawed" I have not detected such. Thousands of Wiki articles may legitimately be designated as lacking in "tone" or described as "a mess" - why this one?

I shall the study the John Huston article for comprehension.--CerroFerro (talk) 19:49, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

I appreciate your process! I will continue to make copyedits to the article and will be improving its referencing. There is the occasional diction which I believe is being perceived as slightly effusive. For example, I recently replaced "classic" with "landmark"; or "outstanding" with "significant"; and removed chef-d'œuvre from a header. Apart from such changes, I suspect the article's length coupled with its extensive footnotes with quotations may be another reason. However, I am not convinced the article is deeply flawed. But I would suggest not reverting the tone maintenance template out of an abundance of caution; WP:WNTRMT. Let the discussion play out, even if the grievances have yet to be fully communicated. Οἶδα (talk) 20:27, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

The John Huston article is fine. The "length" (presumably suggesting that the article is too long?) may be attributed to the fact that Milestone's film career spanned over a decade of the silent era. Each of them directed about 40 films, but Huston wrote many screenplays. The length is a measure of the films and topics that critics and biographers consider worthy of analysis. This is why they appear in the article.

Your minor edits are appreciated, but your suggestion that the "extensive footnotes" is a useful criticism is simply wrong-headed. The footnotes serve to verify the material in the article in case a reader wishes to discover the precise passage or sentence it is based upon: this is reassuring, in my opinion. To tamper with these would be a mistake, and I hope that you will defend them.

As to your analysis, "I am not convinced that it is deeply flawed", this gentle reprimand contributes to perpetuating the "lack of good faith" exhibited at the Lewis Milestone Talk page. You are speculating about the reason for the complaints: "I suspect..." Why have you not gone directly to the discussion page and asked for a clarification? I have repeatedly made requests for such, and am falsely told that these have been answered. Personal attacks have been launched against me, and you've registered no objections. As such, your foregoing comments serve as an apology.

As you are aware, my Username came to the attention of the authorities when I defended using the World Socialist Web Site (WSWS) as a reference for the article to support a quote, the accuracy of which was never questioned. An editor, Heavy Water, objected to allowing a WSWS reference in the article, writing: "I don't trust WSWS. I've found them to spread disinformation and promote Russian interests." I responded that this remark, which offered no evidence, was "politically motivated." The editor filed a complaint stating that "CerroFerro has made personal attacks against me." I was threatened with having the Username blocked on this specious accusation.

You will note that Robert Kerber just blocked me from the Milestone article, having cited the dispute described above, where I was mocked as A "Comrade" i.e. a Communist-sympathizer ergo as an official enemy US foreign policy. Your comments, which Kerber and other authorities are watching, helped to rationalize the Milestone block.

I hope you will reflect upon these comments without rancor. Note: Jesus' Son is monitoring this dispute.--CerroFerro (talk) 16:53, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for your thoughtful remarks, Οἶδα. For clarity, I shall insert my responses paragraph by paragraph:

As for the footnote comment, I was merely making a suggestion as to what I personally believe may be a contributing factor as to why other editors may be immediately off-put by the article. An article with hundreds of footnotes and attached quotations, but with no cite templates which allow for one-directional links to the matching citation? I would appreciate if we could acknowledge that doesn't exactly help the image of the article being unmessy, regardless of whether it is useful criticism or not. That is one of the reasons I have helped cleanup citations on many of the articles we have edited together. Furthermore, I never suggested "tampering" with the footnotes in any way that would change their content.

"The use of citation templates is neither encouraged nor discouraged. Templates may be used or removed at the discretion of individual editors, subject to agreement with other editors on the article." The complaint registered against the Milestone biography was "tone," with little supporting evidence to establish any "messiness." All of the citations from the articles we've collaborated upon still retain the citations I posted, as you pointed out. Only once in my 14 years as a content contributor have the quotations from my footnotes been "tampered with" and these were summarily deleted.

Also, I was not aware of any dispute you had regarding the World Socialist Web Site. I have never read any article from them that suggested they published disinformation. Especially since we don't distrust sources outright even if they are considered unreliable on one topic, but not others, like WP:ROLLINGSTONEPOLITICS for example. I have read numerous literature-related articles from the WSWS which were replete with absorbing information and criticism.

User:Bbb23 and User:C.Fred are administrators who sanctioned the exclusion of a World Socialist Web Site reference, which was presented as a case of illegal "reverting" when the object of deleting the ref was purely political, i.e. anti-Socialist. You would do well to recognize this abuse of Wikipedia.

As for your blocking, I am aware. And I do not appreciate my comments on my own talk being cited as any rationale for your blocking. But I have not found any such external citations. If you would just prefer I refrain from privately engaging with you and giving such advice here on my talk page, then I shall do that.

Οἶδα, I never intended to injure your amour propre. or to undermine your réputation among the Wiki establishment.

But I tried to warn you earlier in my response, not realizing you had already again removed the tone template from Milestone's article ten minutes before I finished my reply. You do not appear to have violated the 3-revert rule. But before your last removal, you had already removed the template 4 times. In my experience. edit warring of any kind is always an easy way to receive a block. The action is very sensitive to Wiki admins and I have seen too many well-intentioned editors get blocked. That is why I always refrain from reverting more than once. I always take my issues to the talk page, even when I know I am in the right.

Once an editor is identified as a political interloper, the revert rules are irrelevant. I too, took "my issues to the talk page" and was met with nothing but complaints about "reverts." This was used as a distraction in dispute over using WSWS as a reference in Farha (film). You may view that Talk page at your leisure.

Whether you want to accept it or not, the issues raised on the talk page about "flowery phrasings like 'had the shared misfortune of competing with a veritable pantheon'" will be accepted as reason enough for a maintenance template to remain, as discussion continues to play out on the talk page. The article being a "mess" was not the only explanation given. Your insistence upon removing the template despite an ongoing dispute and talk page discussion is a fast-track to a block. The merit of the grievances are not relevant. The mere dispute of content is reason enough to cease article reverts and let a talk page discussion fully play out.

Where does the "flowery phrasing" quote appear? In the footnotes? Kindly provide a link. As to "letting a talk page discussion fully play out" is honestly, a rather disgraceful request: nothing in way of "discussion" on the Talk page involved little more than complaints and threats about my reverts.

As for why I "have not gone directly to the discussion page and asked for a clarification" and why I "have registered no objections" to "personal attacks" on you: I had indeed read the Milestone talk page and immediately saw the grievance from Nikkimaria, which, as I just mentioned above, was enough. And I did not see any personal attacks made against you on the talk page. I have just read the talk page over again in detail. I am sorry CerroFerro, but if you believe any of the comments constitute a personal attack against you then I don't know what to tell you. You seem to misunderstand fundamental aspects of Wikipedia and are approaching rather simple disputes too personally.

Reviving the dispute surrounding the suppression of the WSWS by Robert Kerber is not "personal"? I understand all too well the "fundamental aspects" of Wikipedia administrators and their tactics.

Frankly, I avoid charged Wikipedia disputes like this because I find very little utility in them. I would much prefer to use my time improving a given article using what I know about Wikipedia and editing and a given source material. For all of the times we have crossed editing paths, I have tried in my way to do just that: improve articles that you have written to ensure that they reach the standard that will see them remain on Wikipedia. You wish to debate rather simple truths of Wikipedia and assign culpability to me and label me an apologist for merely writing on my own talk page to lend what experience I have in how to improve Wiki articles....

Indeed, there is very little "utility" in defying McCarhtyite tendencies at Wikipedia,

My only apology here is that I am sorry that you no longer trust my advice. I regrettably insist that we cease our correspondence. I refuse to breathe the smoke. I request that you refrain from posting on my talk page from this moment forth. And I ask that you respect my wishes.

Rest assured, Οἶδα, you will suffer no further molestation from CerroFerro. --CerroFerro (talk) 18:17, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

bon vent

Οἶδα (talk) 11:33, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	Great work on Fallen Leaves (film). Well done! BoyTheKingCanDance (talk) 10:26, 5 May 2023 (UTC)