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*'''Oppose''' as excessive and out of proportion with remedies for the other involved editors. For the most part I don't see anything to be gained by singling some people out for harsher treatment than others. Given that (almost) everyone is trying to find a way to get along now it's best to a fresh chance to everyone who has agreed to cooperate, and deal with people firmly only if they cause new disruption. Assuming the sockpuppet accusations do not pan out (and they don't seem to), K4T's overall participation here as much as I have complained at times seems to be in good faith. K4T writes well, is capable of positive contributions, and seems to want to work together at this point. I was a little perplexed by that "null edit" also but I don't see it as anything sinister. Maybe just a little too wound up in process still. Everyone involved needs to be counseled that the goal is to go back to editing this article and articles on other subjects without having to think of truces, agreements, alliances, policing, watching over things, etc. [[User:Wikidemo|Wikidemo]] ([[User talk:Wikidemo|talk]]) 23:53, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' as excessive and out of proportion with remedies for the other involved editors. For the most part I don't see anything to be gained by singling some people out for harsher treatment than others. Given that (almost) everyone is trying to find a way to get along now it's best to a fresh chance to everyone who has agreed to cooperate, and deal with people firmly only if they cause new disruption. Assuming the sockpuppet accusations do not pan out (and they don't seem to), K4T's overall participation here as much as I have complained at times seems to be in good faith. K4T writes well, is capable of positive contributions, and seems to want to work together at this point. I was a little perplexed by that "null edit" also but I don't see it as anything sinister. Maybe just a little too wound up in process still. Everyone involved needs to be counseled that the goal is to go back to editing this article and articles on other subjects without having to think of truces, agreements, alliances, policing, watching over things, etc. [[User:Wikidemo|Wikidemo]] ([[User talk:Wikidemo|talk]]) 23:53, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
*'''Strongly support'''. Actually, not nearly long enough time, but at least it would be a start. Having a sockpuppet vote "oppose" just continues the bad faith. <font color="darkgreen">[[User:Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters|LotLE]]</font>×<font color="darkred" size="-2">[[User talk:Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters|talk]]</font> 00:04, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
*'''Strongly support'''. Actually, not nearly long enough time, but at least it would be a start. Having a sockpuppet vote "oppose" just continues the bad faith. <font color="darkgreen">[[User:Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters|LotLE]]</font>×<font color="darkred" size="-2">[[User talk:Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters|talk]]</font> 00:04, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
*'''Strongly Oppose'''. He's one of the best editors on here - one of the few bastions against the rantings of [[User:Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters|LotLE]] and the like. [[User:Fovean Author|Fovean Author]] ([[User talk:Fovean Author|talk]]) 00:32, 15 June 2008 (UTC)


===WorkerBee74 banned===
===WorkerBee74 banned===

Revision as of 00:32, 15 June 2008

Tendentious editing by User:Andyvphil

Moved from WP:ANI - thread over 50k - D.M.N. (talk)

I'd like some assistance. After reminding [1] User:Andyvphil that he's not to edit others' Talk page comments [2], he immediately altered my comments (to an uncivil quip) in his User_talk space [3] and continued his tenditious editing at Talk:Barack Obama [4]. I'd normally leave someone so clearly in the fast lane for a block to their own devices, but I don't appreciate his repeatedly editing others' remarks; Andy's been blocked repeatedly for his hostility toward other editors, and while others have tried to work with him, he doesn't seem to be learning from past interaction. Shem(talk) 05:29, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Btw, none of my blocks were for "hostility toward other editors". Which is not to say that I take kindly to the abuse of process that Shem is engaging in here. Andyvphil (talk) 07:56, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Andyvphil has now edited my comments on this page [5] and again on an article talk page [6]. Shem(talk) 13:39, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
What part of "A heading should indicate what the topic is, but not communicate a specific view about it"(WP:TPG) is lost on you? You don't own this page, or the Barack Obama talk page, and you're not allowed to use headers to make abusive assertions ("tendentious editing by User:Andyvphil"). Keep your "comments" in the text area, where your signature marks them as the opinions of dubious origin that they are. Andyvphil (talk) 14:19, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe Shem will take this opportunity to realize that warning and threatening every user he edit wars with is counterproductive, and will only make enemies, and will not help out his cause in the slightest. The Evil Spartan (talk) 05:43, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia's always been a collaborative work, so there aren't any "enemies" here, Evil Spartan. I stand by all of 'em, and was glad to step back in and remind some of y'all that Wikipedia's not a battleground. Shem(talk) 05:54, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
By all means let's look at Shem's examples of my "edit[ing] others' Talk page comments [7]" and "continued... tenditious editing[8]". Both involve only the header on an article's (not a user's) talk page, where the guideline is: "A heading should indicate what the topic is, but not communicate a specific view about it."(WP:TPG) Shem's header was "This is a policy matter, and this poll is not useful for establishing consensus" and I first changed it to "Further comments by Option 1 supporters: 'This is a policy matter, and this poll is not useful for establishing consensus' and, after Shem reverted, to "Argumentative header redacted, per [guideline]: "A heading should indicate what the topic is, but not communicate a specific view about it.'" (edit comment "...I'll leave replacing it to someone else.") So the real question is whether Shem's right to protect the integrity of his remarks means that his argumentative headers can't be made neutral. And whether he should escape rebuke for filing completely bogus complaints like this. Andyvphil (talk) 07:50, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I do think this editor is headed for a long-term block or ban, if he does not either improve or lose interest in the project. Replacing talk page headers with complaints and personal attacks (here's another[9], and in this very section he edits the headings to turn a report on his behavior around to a complaint about the poster[10][11]) is one of the least of the problems. The site of the most recent trouble, the Barak Obama article (where he has joined forces with three other accounts to pester his perceived enemies with taunts like "Obama campaign volunteers" and "Obama fanboys", and broke ranks of the consensus discussion to renew an edit war[12][13]), was recently taken unprotected with a stern warning to not edit war that soon lead to the article's full protection. The other place he has been most tendentious of late is a sockpuppet report Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Kossack4Truth (where he called User:Josi "bad, arrogant"[14], "arrogant abuse of admin power...for whom an admin bit is an opportunity to stoke their ego..."[15]and me an "imbecile" and a "liar"[16]. We can and should have a thick skin about all this, but it's lead to protectio of an important article and the more or less complete breakdown of consensus discussions.

I have had a couple of prolonged unpleasant run-ins with him myself and left quite a few warnings. Andyvphil has not responded well to repeated warnings, and shows no sign of self-reflection or moderating his behavior. However, now that he is a party to a sockpuppet request, and much of his incivility and tendentiousness is occurring there, I would say he's already under scrutiny so I'm not sure a separate forum is needed here for the moment. Wikidemo (talk) 08:43, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It was admin, not merely "user" Jossi whose actions in blocking Fovean_Author with no plausible justification I called arrogant. My retitling of this section so that it does not assert my guilt is in accord with the guideline I've quoted above, and if you read "accusation" into the perfectly neutral descriptive title "Allegation by User:Shem of tendentious editing by User:Andyvphil", that is entirely in your own head. Not that I am unwilling to accuse when it is called for. You point to my calling your addition of my name to the list of sockpuppets operated by "suspected sockpuppeteer" Kossack4Truth an abuse of process,[17] and I stand by that 100%. Since your cohort in the hagiographic clique (you, Scjessey, Lulu, Shem...) called me a racist without rebuke[18] it's hard to credit the notion that calling the group Obama Campaign Volunteers would merit one. That's assuming I used the term. Where's the diff? I'm sure I never used "Obama Fanboys", though it's not an epithet in a league with "smells of racism" either.
I won't bother refuting the rest of your off-topic rant. Shem has reported an "incident". He alleges that I have engaged in "tendentious editing" by first contextualizing and then redacting his argumentative header on the Barack Obama talkpage. Did I or did I not -- that's the question in this section, and I am confident that the answer cannot possibly be the one he wants. If you want to raise a different complaint against me, start another section. Andyvphil (talk) 10:49, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Wikidemo correctly, below, appears to consider that the "racist" issue is moot here. However, that incident reveals more about how Andyvphil responds to disputes. He links above to the place where he was allegedly "called" a "racist." The diff does not support that. Nor was "smells of racism" (not the actual language) a personal attack, and that Andyvphil thinks it was is diagnostic. Scjessey's edit summary was this: "Undid revision 211967788 by Andyvphil (talk) - rv disruptive edits that are starting to look suspiciously like racism." While this may not be the soul of cooperative civility, because it could indeed be taken in an inflammatory way, it merely noted Scjessey's impression of the edits, their appearance to him, and a concern. That was not a personal attack, for a totally non-racist editor could make an edit that "looks like" racism to another editor. Had Scjessey called Andyvphil a "racist," it would have been an entirely different matter, or if he had made some broad statement clearly implying that, such as "All his edits appear to be racist," a personal attack would have been visible.--Abd (talk) 15:19, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The editor seems to claim his ongoing incivility and name calling are okay because he was provoked by supposed "cohorts" who called him a racist a month ago. I can't quite follow that, and I wasn't involved during his last visit to this page. But he has clearly been confrontational and upset many editors over a long period and has no interest in stopping. Indeed, he continues after making the above statements to edit war on the Obama talk page over the very edit that was first complained about in this report (though he is now defacing rather than merely altering the heading).[19] That is particularly disruptive given the consternation, disagreement, name calling, and allegations of sock puppetry surrounding the repeated polling, with the polls becoming a springboard for edits that got the Obama main page fully protected. Yet another warning would not seem to help; he dismisses this as "administrative arrogance" and "abuse of process". Whether or not the disruption would justify a block at this very moment, in the long term something ought to be done to mollify things.Wikidemo (talk) 13:43, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
What I've dismissed as abuse of process was Shem's bogus assertion that I had edited his "comments" (again, its only his headers I've insisted follow WP:TPG) and your bogus assertion that I could possibly be a sockpuppet of Kossak4Truth. Another bogus "warning" that I shouldn't interfere with Shem's misuse of headers will indeed be dismissed by me. What part of "A heading should indicate what the topic is, but not communicate a specific view about it"(WP:TPG) is lost on you? Andyvphil (talk) 14:12, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I won't take the invitation to snipe back. He is edit warring on the Obama talk page, citing a misinterpretation of WP:TPG, to deface one option in a heated poll to Argumentative header redacted, per [guideline]: "A heading should indicate what the topic is, but not communicate a specific view about it."[20] There's a bona fide concern of sockpuppetry or at least meatpuppetry, per Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Kossack4Truth. He's recently called me a liar and an imbecile. That's all in the last day or so. He and Shem are revert warring again in the past half hour over the title to this section.[21][22]. This is not looking good. - Wikidemo (talk) 14:48, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

While I agree in principle that changing a section header is not the same as refactoring someone else's talk page comments, and I think that some of the header modification edits made by Andyvphil were probably okay, this is unacceptable. Behavior like that could rapidly lead to a block. --Jaysweet (talk) 14:55, 9 June 2008 (UTC) Full disclosure: I am not an admin, but I feel I can help out here anyway.[reply]

(ec)Andyvphil is also repeatedly editing section headers placed on his Talk page, turning warnings to him into taunts of other editors. See [23], changing "Do not edit others' talk page comments." into "Shem's sham outrage," undone at [24] by Shem. [25] changed "Edit warring." into "Hypocritical hagiographers threaten," removed by Wikidemo with [26] with summary: "remove personal attack heading and replace with original" (Next edit from Wikidemo also replaced another header Andyvphil had removed, and added text warning about NPA.) Andyphil then, today, replaced the "sham outrage" attack header,[27], claiming "wider latitude on my Talk page." Most recently, as this is written, Shem reverted that last change, and notified Andyphil of this AN/I report.[28].
See also the SSP report, Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Kossack4Truth. Sock puppetry has not been proven, though there is reasonable suspicion remaining. However, for our immediate purposes, the behavior of Andyvphil in this report should be reviewed. He is generally attacking administrators and others who warn or restrain him. He consistently fails to assume good faith, instead imputing hypocrisy, bias, "plethora of bad, arrogant, admins," "abusing process for the purposes of harassment," "arrogant abuse of admin power," "Arrogant and unaccountable admins," "admins equally incurious as to the facts but eager to boost their fagile egos by pissing on any non-admin "peon" handy."
Those are some of the facts, a review of this editors history will find much, much more. As to the implications, Andyvphil is correct that he has greater latitude on his Talk page, but that does not extend to using his Talk page for personal attacks. Further, a section header added by a user with the user's edit of the page is part of the user's edit, and changing it can alter the meaning. Changing it into a personal attack is even worse. His provocative, taunting ABF comments are disruptive and confuse efforts to find editorial consensus. Readers may be aware that I've often complained about administrative abuse. It happens. But it is not necessary, dealing with it, to impute bad faith, hypocrisy, spite, and all the rest, and, in fact, administrators are accountable. I commented in the RfAr proceedings of User:Physchim62 and User:Tango, who made blocks apparently as a result of alleged personal attacks directed at them, violating conflict of interest rules, and not for the clear protection of the project, which might have justified the blocks under IAR, and those admins both lost their bits. Other administrative errors happen, often through inattention, but are remediable. Attacking the administrators' personal motives, absent clear proof, isn't legitimate. I'm amazed that this editor isn't blocked yet. --Abd (talk) 14:56, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Talk:Barack Obama page has been a toxic combustion chamber of editors behaving badly, getting other editors offended who then behave badly and so on. To get involved in discussions there is almost guaranteed to make yourself the target of an attack. There is plenty of bad behavior on both sides -- and I do mean sides. Only part of the problem will be solved with blocks or topic bans. What's needed are more adults with patience taking a little time to get involved in discussions about an article that gets tens of thousands of page views on a typical day and on June 4 got a quarter of a million page hits. It's inevitable that controversial subjects get debated heatedly on certain talk pages. What's odd about this talk page is the low heat/light ratio and the worse drama/constructive discussion ratio. I know that's not an advertisement for recruiting cool heads to the page, but it would be good for Wikipedia if you'd come. It's not only a great exercise in trying to keep cool, but you might learn somethng about one of the most important topics of the year. Slap permanent bans on every editor whose signature appears in this section, and you'll have the same problems on the page within two months. Wider participation is the only way out. Noroton (talk) 15:43, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Moi? Slog around in the mudfight? Ask me personally, on my Talk page, and I'll consider it. Just like I'd consider helping my neighbor who asks me to help clean out the remains of a racoon that died in his basement. I don't need "exercise in keeping cool," I need cool. It's over ninety out today. I prefer, usually, to seriously work on articles where I'm expert on the topic, at least in some way. I actually use what I know to judge what is notable and what is not. Horrifying, I know, but I don't remove stuff because it isn't sourced if I think it is true and balanced. (If I put such in, and I often do, I can't complain if it is removed because of lack of RS, though I'd consider it more polite, if it seems like it might be verifiable, to tag it.) Anyway, thanks. As to the issue of Andyvphil, I've seen his attitude be a problem across more than one article, it's not just Obama. And it goes way beyond the too-common incivility between disagreeing editors. It's divisive, us vs. them, wikiwarfare. And it doesn't belong here. Given how much he's been warned, and how many times blocked, I'd say it's time to pull the plug. Will this stop edit warring? Probably not. But it will lessen it, at least a little. (Some might be surprised to know that I think we should block far more quickly, but with less ongoing effect. When the police see a fight going on, it is *not* their job to decide who was right. They say, "Stop!" and anyone who does not stop gets stopped, immediately. Has nothing to do with who started it, who was the evil-doer and who was protecting all that is Good. Stop. Now. Then, when the smoke clears, the police decide whom to more permanently arrest, if any, and who can walk free. Let me put it this way: there should be an "everyone involved, stop" block reason that doesn't create any prejudice with regard to future, more serious blocks. It would not involve any judgment of blame. And I'm pretty sure that I'd be blocked in this way, at least occasionally!) --But maybe evenly distributed warnings would serve for this. And article protection does stop edit warring.--Abd (talk) 16:45, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Toi! (Et vous!) Sometimes the raccoon dies in the volunteer firehouse. And the trick with working on an article like Barack Obama is that almost everybody has some knowledge, most everybody needs more knowledge, anybody would benefit (even off Wikipedia) by getting more knowledge, and it's good for the soul to find out you're wrong every now and then. Aux armes! Aux armes, citoyens! (for the French-defficient, see my edit summary)Noroton (talk) 17:09, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sanctions

Barack Obama is a featured article and one of our most often-viewed and high-profile pages. The editing behavior there is a disgrace to Wikipedia, and has been recognized as such by the mass media ([29]). No one person is wholly responsible, but any attempt to deal with it has to start somewhere.

  • Andyvphil (talk · contribs): Four escalating blocks for edit-warring; has wikilawyered each of them by arguing the letter of 3RR and accusing the admins of not knowing how to count or recognize a revert (see here, here, here, etc). Citing the talk page guidelines to justify changing another editor's overly "argumentative" heading ([30]) is odd coming from someone who himself routinely alters others' headings into attacks: [31], [32], [33], [34], [35], etc. This editor is gaming WP:TPG as part of an ongoing pattern of inappropriate editing. His level of civility is poor even by the standards of the Obama talk page; he's dismissed every attempt to reason with him or moderate his approach (e.g. here and here); and the denial of his last 3 unblock requests led him to conclude not that his behavior violated this site's standards, but that admins as a group are a capricious, ignorant "mullah class" conspiring against honest editors like himself ([36]). I haven't seen any potential for improvement here. This editor is playing a major role in the devolution of one of our highest-profile articles into a battleground (even drawing the attention of the popular press). I'm going to go ahead and block him for 1 month for disruptive editing on top of 4 previous blocks for edit-warring, and if he resumes the same approach after the block's expiry, I would support an indefinite block.
  • Kossack4Truth (talk · contribs): Editors with "Truth" in their username seem to run into problems with NPOV and tendentiousness fairly often. This is an evident tendentious single-purpose agenda account contributing heavily to the poor quality of editing and behavior at Barack Obama. S/he has racked up 2 blocks in the past few weeks for edit-warring on the Obama article. Third edit blued out his talk page with a pre-emptive defense against charges of sockpuppetry ([37]). I would recommend a topic ban to see if there is anything more here than someone dedicated to abusing Wikipedia as a venue to advocate for a specific, narrow agenda. I won't impose this without further uninvolved feedback, though.
  • A number of other editors at Barack Obama have contributed to the poor atmosphere there. This is not an exhaustive list, but an identification of a starting point for improving this situation. Experienced or constructive outside editors without an axe to grind are essential, but I don't think we'll attract many of them until the current debacle is addressed. I would welcome uninvolved feedback on the above, as well as any additional review of these or other participants in the article.

The bottom line is that this is one of our highest-profile articles, and its current atrocious state as a WP:BATTLEfield of tendentious edit-warring is a high-profile disgrace to Wikipedia. Feedback welcome. MastCell Talk 17:36, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

    • 1/ Is a month enough? 2/ A topic ban...well, is that going to be effective? A short block might be a better step. 3/I want to review this whole article further (as an outside opinion) - I'll check back within 12 hours. Ncmvocalist (talk) 18:08, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Re: a month, I'm open to feedback on that. Re: a topic ban, for most single-purpose agenda accounts a topic ban ends up being functionally identical to a block - they came here to push a specific agenda, and if they can't, then they leave. On the other hand, if Kossack4Truth has other interests and something of value to contribute to the encyclopedia, then the topic ban may facilitate that. I think it's a less blunt instrument. MastCell Talk 18:12, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        • It's very troubling behaviour. I'm absolutely certain that (at minimum) a topic ban is needed for Kossack4Truth. Will continue looking through everything, including other involved editors conduct (amidst the edit conflicts) in a few hours or so. Ncmvocalist (talk) 18:35, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        • You pretty much nailed it, MastCell. 1 month for Andyvphil is exactly what I'd recommend, given the history and behavior, which isn't marginal, balanced with gradual escalation of blocks. --Abd (talk) 18:19, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • (ec)I'm an involved editor and I've been in agreement with Andyvphil and Kossack4Truth in terms of some of the broadest issues, but I can't criticize a single thing MastCell says. Noroton (talk) 18:24, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Support Mastcell's summary of the problems over at the obama page as a good first step --It jibes with what I've observed over on the talk page on the few occasions I'm able to look over there. One of the main problems with SPA pushing a point of view is that each edit by itself is plausibly defensible, if not scrutinized too closely (a big thanks to Mastcell for doing the legwork on putting his summary together). Support the 1 month block for Andyvphil and the 1 month topic ban for Kossack4Truth. The remedy is appropriate for each. R. Baley (talk) 18:40, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • Are you proposing a 1 month topic ban on Obama related articles for Kossack4Truth? He currently isn't under such a restriction and while MastCell did recommend a topic ban, he did say that he wasn't imposing it and didn't include a time frame. --Bobblehead (rants) 01:45, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
        • Has K4T been notifed that he's being discussed here? By my count, in the 14 hours since this report was opened K4T has participated in a minor edit war (to be fair, on the right side of it), placed a warning logo on the Obama talk page and that of a user relating to the edit war, re-added disputed information that Tony Rezko was convicted of bribery, and accused one editor of "distortion" and another (the edit warrior) of "indefensible" conduct. But he seems capable of good editing. Perhaps a warning is more appropriate than a topic ban.Wikidemo (talk) 02:12, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • MastCell has, as is often the case, summarized this mess rather nicely. I'd say that the block and topic ban seem to be quite appropriate in the pursuit of slowing down the mayhem on this very, very busy page. If other adherents of the combatants pick up the sword and start to charge, though, an attempt at article probation might be a good idea - it probably won't slow down anytime before the elections. Tony Fox (arf!) 18:52, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • As noted by Noroton

    Slap permanent bans on every editor whose signature appears in this section, and you'll have the same problems on the page within two months.

    However, MastCell's suggestion seems likely to have the effect of removing the immediate problem, giving the parties time to consider the consequences of their actions, and discouraging future POV warriors from participating too disruptively on the subject; I support the proposal. LessHeard vanU (talk) 20:25, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • No opinion on the merits of the block, but Andyvphil (talk · contribs) has requested unblock for the purpose of contributiong to this discussion, and I have advised him to post any pertinent comments or unblock requests on his talk page.  Sandstein  22:01, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • I don't have any real objection to unblocking him specifically to post here, but given past history I think it might be most productive to adopt Sandstein's suggestion, which is fairly standard practice, for Andyvphil to post his comments on his user talk page and have another editor copy them here as needed. MastCell Talk 22:50, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Good call by MastCell, a more long term block seems necessary at this point and a month seems appropriate. I've seen Andyvphil at the related A More Perfect Union (speech) article, and while he has made some constructive edits there the overall approach to editing and the tendency to comment pointedly on the supposed motivations of other editors troubled me from the outset (the behavior there does not at all approach the problematic level at the Obama article however). Andyvphil can no doubt be a constructive contributor but needs to recognize that his behavior up to now has been problematic. I also fully agree that the main Obama article is a big problem for Wikipedia and we need more admins (and editors) who can keep a cool head over there helping out. I've intentionally avoided it but will probably try to lend a hand at some point. The situation over there could easily lead to worse press for us than that which has already been published.--Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 23:35, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I support MastCell's analysis of the problem and his block and ban recommendations. EdJohnston (talk) 00:09, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • MastCell's spot-on. Shem(talk) 02:38, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Would suggest the topic ban be enforced then. Ncmvocalist (talk) 03:13, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Endorse MastCell's analysis. Would support the month-long topic ban if Kossack4Truth enters WP:ADOPT. Further on evidence support site ban/ indef blocking of Andyvphil if he does not address eth substantive behavioural issues raised here - too much disruption to make a point & too much wikilawyering--Cailil talk 20:57, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Having just found out about this (gee thanks), I would like to offer a word in my own defense. It is clear that there are POV pushers on the other side of the dispute at Barack Obama. I'm somewhat new to this and was unaware that being a single purpose account is frowned upon. I would voluntarily and cheerfully start a week, or even month long topic ban on Obama related articles, if admins can promise me that the POV pushers on the other side of this dispute are monitored carefully, and blocked without hesitation as needed, in the interests of protecting the Wikipedia project. In particular, they're trying to gut the section on the presidential campaign and remove virtually all references to Tony Rezko, even now. Hit Scjessey with a month-long topic ban at the same time. Kossack4Truth (talk) 22:38, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ongoing revert war

Now that this editor does know of the proposed topic ban, he jumped in to a revert war on the Barack Obama article anyway to restore a list of criminal charges against Tony Rezko.[38]. He reverted the "bribery" charge part of it two other times in the hours before learning of the proposed sanctions[39][40], so he is at exactly WP:3RR. There was another edit yesterday in a revert war over a broader section that included this material[41]. So the editor has been at a state of WP:3RR for some time. There's also ongoing debate, with the editor claiming on the talk page that those he is reverting are POV-pushers[42][43] and issuing warnings and appeals on their talk pages.[44][45] You might want to take a look at the behavior of other editors as well here. Kossack4Truth's four reverts are among a total of 12 reverts in the last +/- 36 hours (by my count) to the Tony Rezko section of the Obama article - all that after edit protection was lifted and people warned to not edit war. Wikidemo (talk) 01:06, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
a total of 12 reverts in the last +/- 36 hours ... and at least half of them were by Wikidemo, Scjessey, Loonymonkey and the other exclusionists who make substantive edits without consensus, in defiance of repeated warnings from admins on the article Talk page. Kossack4Truth (talk) 01:49, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I do not wish to respond to this editor's tit-for-tat accusation except to say it factually incorrect. The three editors mentioned above made a total of four edits to the Obama article in the last 36 hours: 1 each by me and Loonymonkey, and two by Scjessey. Only three out of four would plausibly be described as part of the 14-edit (two new ones now[46][47]) revert war. Kossack4Truth has no cause to lump me in with the group he taunts as "Obama campaign workers"[48] - my edit was uncontroversial, unopposed, and if anything supported Kossack4Truth's position more than his perceived opponents. I've left a caution for Scjessey over his two edits today, urging him/her not to take up a revert war.[49] As I said, any administrator examining the mess should probably look at the editors on both sides of the revert war. Perhaps this can be untangled without going to page protection again. Wikidemo (talk) 03:11, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps we need some intervention, pronto! The Tony Rezko portion of the Obama article has now been reverted 1516 times in 36 hours, 1213 of those (by my count) in the last six hours. Multiple editors are involved - two are at 3RR, one at 2RR, and quite a few people have jumped in now at 1RR. I'll makeI made one last effort on the talk page to get people to stop but I don't know what else to do. A user has now proposed a possible compromise, and there seems to have been no reverting for the past hour, maybe a good sign. Thanks, Wikidemo (talk) 03:17, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently, when somebody's presumed "wrong," it's OK to denigrate his motives and edits, as Andy's are above; but if that person returns the favor and denigrates----in this case, the Obama-biography exclusionists as "hagiographers"----why, it's grounds for an incident report![?] As for the New Republic, apparently a partisan in agreement with the side of an issue that's presumed "right" must show incredible genius while somebody in disagreement would show their imbecility, as why else should how Andy's editing is seen through the prism of the New Republic be thought to have any bearing here? — Justmeherenow (   ) 08:56, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
My point in mentioning the TNR article was not that Andy is "wrong" and Scjessey is "right" - in fact, I don't think the article draws that conclusion. My point was that a major publication has taken note of and described the politically-motivated edit-warring occurring on one of Wikipedia's highest-profile articles, and that it reflects badly on Wikipedia regardless of who's "right" or "wrong". MastCell Talk 16:20, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Justmeherenow has described the exclusionists well. They have learned one of the rules of Saul Alinsky: they accuse others of engaging in the kind of misconduct that they are committing themselves. As I said in the section below, Wikipedia style for the biographies of prominent politicians is well established. The exclusionists are ignoring that summary style and inventing their own. WorkerBee74 (talk) 15:20, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I wonder if it is time for a WP:FAR on this page. It certainly is no longer stable. Kyaa the Catlord (talk) 09:05, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Massive POV push by a handful of exclusionists

I would like very much to take a 30-day voluntary break from all Obama-related articles. But I would like a commitment from the involved administrators that they are going to monitor the conduct of a small but determined group of exclusionists on these articles.

User:Life.temp gutted the article, removing a total of 732 words in two consecutive edits: [50][51] I placed the following warning on his/her Talk page and on the article Talk page: [52] He/she removed the warning from the user Talk page with a personal attack in the edit summary [53] and discussed this warning in two edits on the article Talk page,[54][55] proving that he/she had seen the warning and was aware of increased concerns about edit warring. Nevertheless, last night Life.temp again gutted the article, ripping out nearly 1,000 words this time: [56] None of these edits were accompanied by anything resembling consensus.

It is obvious that Life.temp's goal is to expunge any controversy from the article. This goes hand in hand with similarly intentioned efforts by User:Scjessey, User:Loonymonkey, User:Wikidemo and User:Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters. I request a block of at least 24 hours for Life.temp, a warning for the other four, and a seven-day topic ban for all five of them. Thank you. Kossack4Truth (talk) 11:13, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I support this action but with a modification: the topic ban for Life.temp, Scjessey and Wikidemo should be six months in length. They're POV pushing on the Talk page, edit warring on the article mainspace, making nasty remarks in Talk and in their edit summaries, distorting Wikipedia policy to excuse their misconduct, and using summary style as an excuse to delete major controversies while leaving in such trivia as Obama's struggles to quit cigarette smoking, his alternate career choice as an architect, chili is his favorite food, etc.
The proper style for Wikipedia biographies about major politicians is well established at such articles as George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Tony Blair, Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Ronald Reagan, John Howard, John Kerry and, of course, John McCain. Major controversies are dwelt upon at length in the biography, and announced by name in bold section headers, such as "The Lewinsky scandal," "Whitewater and other investigations," and "Iran-Contra affair." Critics who use these controversies to bash the politicians are frequently quoted, even if they belong to the opposing party or faction. I believe in precedent. This style represents a broad consensus of the thousands of Wikipedia editors and admins who have worked on hundreds of biographies of prominent politicians over the years.
Life.temp, Scjessey and the other three are deliberately defying that consensus. They've been warned repeatedly. WorkerBee74 (talk) 12:27, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Of the polticians you mention, only McCain is actively involved in a high-profile campaign at present, so of the articles you mention above, only McCain's is an appropriate comparison. I think our article on John McCain is decent. I certainly don't see that "major controversies are dealt with at length" in his article. I don't see any obvious attempts to one-sidedly "bash" him in the article, and I don't see any bold-type section headers which reflect negatively on McCain. Aside from the iffy "Cultural and political image" section, it looks pretty reasonable at a glance. I certainly don't see that the Obama article has gotten special treatment compared to McCain's. MastCell Talk 16:27, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Both McCain and Obama's biographies look pretty reasonable, and neither one looks like it got special treatment, when all of the LT/Scjessey/etc. whitewash has been reverted. Please look at the hagiographic Obama version LT has been pushing, compare it to the McCain biography, and try to tell me with a straight face that neither one is geting special treatment. WorkerBee74 (talk) 17:05, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This is the second time in two days I've been complained about in a formal way to admins, and not notified by the complainer. That behavior, in itself, is uncivil. In the future, if you are going to call for blocking me, and start a discussion of that with admins, invite me to the discussion. I gave my opinion about who is responsible for the edit warring here [57]. I explained why campaign-specific information should only be summarized here [58]. I didn't say controversial material should be removed from Wikipedia; I said the details belong in articles dedicated to the controversy. Life.temp (talk) 22:57, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Suggestions by Ncmv

For contribution to the poor atmosphere, edit-warring, disruption, incivility and/or the like...I suggest:

  • Kossack4Truth be blocked for a week, followed by a topic ban for 3 months from all Obama-related pages including talk pages. He may be unblocked upon agreeing to stay away from all pages.
  • WorkerBee74 be topic-banned from all Obama-related pages for 1 month.
  • Fovean_Author be topic-banned from all Obama-related pages for 1 month.
  • Lulu_of_the_lotus_eaters be topic-banned from all Obama-related pages for 2 weeks.
  • Scjessey be topic-banned from all Obama-related pages for 2 weeks.
  • Quarter-master be topic-banned from all Obama-related pages for 1 week.
  • Life.temp be topic-banned from all Obama-related pages for 1 week.

Any users violating these bans for the first time should be blocked for a week, and a month thereafter. Ncmvocalist (talk) 15:04, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Amendment - In addition to the above, I suggest 1RR (every 24 hours) is strictly enforced throughout the Obama-related pages. Editors are warned that this does not endorse reverts or slow edit-warring as a technique. Ncmvocalist (talk) 10:53, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
And I'd like to suggest that you may have been "hoodwinked" by an inexperienced, edit-warring individual (and his single-purpose account surrogate) whose only contributions to Wikipedia have been POV-pushing and wikilawyering. Biographies about living persons have special rules that must be adhered to in order to protect both the subject of the article and Wikipedia as a whole. Using BLPs as soapboxes, or extensions of political smear campaigns violates these rules.
I have no agenda other than to ensure the accuracy, relevancy and neutrality of articles. Since I became a Wikipedian in early 2005, I have contributed much to the project. I have worked hard to build consensus on article talk pages, and any reversions I make (and these are few and far between) are in accordance with Wikipedia rules. To have a 10-day old single-purpose account demand I be given a six-month ban is beyond belief, and I would urge administrators to see through this transparent ploy to use wikilawyering to push an agenda. If I am given any kind of topic ban I urge administrators, in the strongest possible terms, to fill the vacuum they will have created by ensuring Wikipedia policies are enforced on these popular political articles. -- Scjessey (talk) 15:48, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • You need to step back (and should your suggestion as it is baseless). I've independently looked at what's been said at the talk page and the kind of edits that have been made by participating editors. You have contributed to the poor atmosphere there - check what you said at 14:15, 3 June 2008 (UTC) and the last sentence in your contribution at 13:30, 8 June 2008 (UTC). Making a header titled "Dumb argument" is not constructive either. These are just a couple of examples I'd jotted down when formulating this suggestion. There are more examples scattered on the talk page and among your contributions history. Ncmvocalist (talk) 16:24, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Er... if you mean this edit, that was a humorous response to a bit of poetry(?). I believe you are viewing my edit history with an overly-critical eye, probably because the baseless allegations of my "edit warring" et al have somehow prejudiced my "case" (or whatever you call this process). My suggestion that you had been "hoodwinked" is an expression of my incredulity that anyone should consider my contributions to this project as anything other than good faith edits. If I have "contributed to the poor atmosphere" at all, then it is because of my frustration that agenda-driven editors are ignoring Wikipedia policy in such great numbers that the neutrally-minding, altruistic group (of which I am a part) cannot keep up. Administrators can and must take a more active role in policing such articles (outside of the main page, Barack Obama is probably the most trafficked of all Wikipedia articles) so that regular editors don't have to shoulder all the burden. -- Scjessey (talk) 16:48, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • I have you down for two weeks because I can see some active attempts by you to trying to maintain standard Wikipedia process - initially, I'd jotted a month. You need to step back and get rid of that frustration to be more constructive. If you voluntarily can get rid of that frustration on your small wikibreak, I'd withdraw that suggested remedy as time served. Ncmvocalist (talk) 00:52, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
That proposal by Nmcvocalist is very lenient to Scjessey's side of the dispute since Andy has already been blocked for a month. It was LT who blanked so much material on two separate occasions, after multiple warnings from admins and a final warning from K4T. Scjessey, like LT, also got a warning. Like LT, Scjessey deleted it with an expression of contempt. This proposal also ignores the misconduct of LotLE, who has a long history of combative behavior and blocks like Andy.
We must be able to rely on admins to impose sanctions tat are fair to both sides of a dispute. Admins must be neutral. They must not take sides or play favorites. This must be a demonstrable fact. WorkerBee74 (talk) 16:15, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • This isn't about being fair or unfair to a particular side. Each participant is assessed on how they have contributed to the poor atmosphere. I've been too lenient on all participants I think - blocks may be more effective. Ncmvocalist (talk) 16:24, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • I'm not convinced that blocks are warranted in those cases. Andyvphil and Kossack4Truth both had multiple blocks accrued in a short period of time due to edit-warring on Obama articles. I don't see any entries in the block logs of Life.temp, Looneymonkey, Wikidemo, Shem, or Quartermaster. Scjessey does have 1 block for edit-warring, and I'm largely unable to make sense of Lulu of the Lotus Eater's block log, though it has quite a few entries over his 3+ years here. I'm not saying that these editors have behaved in an exemplary fashion, but I don't see the same level of refractoriness there. I would like to look at this a bit further, but pending that I would propose a blanket 1RR and possibly article probation, and I'd like to get the help of additional uninvolved admins since I don't really want to be in the position of dealing with this mess alone. MastCell Talk 16:40, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
      • WorkerBee74 keeps accusing editors in a misleading way, so please don't accept without questioning that people on his list are actually involved. The list he wants "banned", calls "Obama campaign volunteers" or "exclusionists", etc., changes each time. He has no plausible gripe with Looneymonkey. I haven't made a controversial edit to the article since article protection was lifted. Shem is currently trying to broker a truce to the edit war - which WorkerBee74 and two others broke in the last few hours through continuing reverts but may be holding now.

Until just a few days ago Hillary Clinton was also actively camaigning and she has only "suspended" her campaign. During the entire campaign, her biography had "Lewinsky Scandal" and "Whitewater and other investigations" as section headers. Please don't try to claim that McCain's is the only comparable biography. Besides all living persons should be treated the same. I suggest that 48-hour blocks and six-month topic bans would be fair for the three exclusionists I've mentioned since they are veteran editors and should know better, they've contributed to the atmosphere with their nasty remarks, and they are trying to win an edit war. You really need to review their edits and edit summaries before letting them off with a slap on the wrist. LotLE and to a lesser extent, Loonymonkey have also caused problems. Maybe a 24-hour block and 30-day topic ban for LotLE, and a 7-day topic ban for Loony. As for me, I'd like to have an opportunity to prove that I have a lot more to offer WP than reverting POV pushers. Do you agree that WP biography style for prominent politicians is established by these other biographies? WorkerBee74 (talk) 16:56, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia articles're preferably led by the example of Featured Articles, not the other way around. Shem(talk) 18:23, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • In assessing how each participant has contributed to the poor atmosphere, admins looking over Talk:Barack Obama should realize that I removed parts of two comments here and here. No one's perfect, and context counts, but I think it's worth doing a "Find on this page" search for "LotLE" on Talk:Barack Obama, Talk:Barack Obama/Archive 21 and Talk:Barack Obama/Archive 19, and then drawing your own conclusions. I think it's nasty stuff, but I haven't done a comparison with what others said and did, and maybe there's a context I'm missing. Noroton (talk) 18:49, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I notice at least one conspicuous absence, which I'll point out in case that was an oversight - User talk:Fovean Author. See the history of blocks and incivility on the talk page, and the odd sockpuppet report, noted above. Perhaps it would be useful to also list people for whom sanctions are not imposed and explain very simply, e.g. "userxxxx - no remedy warranted at this time" so that people will at least know the review was thorough. Thanks, Wikidemo (talk) 19:08, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • Actually, I think the whiff of bans and blocks is probably a pretty healthy motivator for good conduct in this situation, both for the named and the unnamed. It would also look like a pat on the head. Noroton (talk) 19:53, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
You must be kidding: "Life.temp be topic-banned from all Obama-related pages for 1 week." I've made one edit (in 2 parts) and reverted to to it twice. That is the entirety of my history with any Obama article. I explained that one edit at great length in Talk, and connected it to an official guideline. I've been uncivil to no one. I said some editors have destroyed the logic of assuming good faith. Given the discussion here, many agree. Life.temp (talk) 11:27, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Article probation?

MastCell suggested article probation earlier, which I couldn't support strongly enough at this point. Shem(talk) 18:25, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oh dear god, please do. As one of the former maintainers of the article, I can say the constant edit warring, incivility, and assumptions of bad faith on the article has pretty much driven off all of the people that got the article to FA status and kept it there for the next 3+ years and has also made it next to impossible to actually get any work done on the article. --Bobblehead (rants) 19:05, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    As the second highest contributor to the article last time I checked, I totally agree with what Bobblehead said here. Tvoz/talk 23:45, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • At WP:3RRN we're getting a lot of reports filed about the above edit warriors. To be honest, I just want them to stop. I know Andy games the system so we can't really take any action. The editors involved usually discuss so much that it clogs up the board. I'd support a complete article ban on all the above editors involved with immediate blocking on any edits made to Barrack Obama aside from the removal of obvious vandalism. Talking to them obviously doesn't help as they all think they're correct. ScarianCall me Pat! 19:21, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
An indefinite ban (until successfully appealed, if at all) or a certain duration? Ncmvocalist (talk) 00:56, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I would support the blocks and bans proposed by Ncmvocalist in the above list, to prevent these editors from working on Obama-related articles. I'd also consider any reasonable proposals for longer-duration bans, going up to indefinite. An article ban is not as serious as a complete block from editing Wikipedia, so we need not follow a minutely-detailed process here. We just need to stabilize the editing climate so regular editors can get back to work on the article. EdJohnston (talk) 04:31, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Some form of article probation is probably a good idea, perhaps now or perhaps in the near future if problems continue. If we go that route I'd imagine a 1RR rule on the article itself and a strict application of the civility policy on the talk page would address a lot of the problems. I'm just starting to look into this, but at this point I would not support an indiscriminate topic ban "on all the above editors." Topic bans (if they happen) should be handed out to those who have actually been abusing Wiki processes, not simply the more prominent names in the dispute, and I don't want to catch up editors who have been largely constructive in their edits into the dragnet. At this point I'm most inclined to take a "this is your last chance" approach to the article and see if the threat of (and if necessary implementation of) longer blocks or topic bans is able to calm things down over there a bit. I've been taking a look at what's happening on the page and have already warned three different editors about their behavior. Those who are edit warring or otherwise being disruptive will receive blocks. There does seem to be a bit of a truce on the talk page at the moment (kinda), so now is probably a good time for neutral admins to get involved and set some standards about acceptable editing practices on the page. One way or another though what has been happening cannot be allowed to continue. --Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 04:46, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Article probation or any such "warning" is insufficient on its own as it will not stabilize the the climate there, nor can it be enforced effectively. These suggested sanctions aren't at the most prominent names - the names are of those who have actually to a great extent (and sometimes persistently) contributed to the long-term poor atmosphere there most recently. Talking to them hasn't helped - it's time for the community to step up and actually address the issue instead of circling around it and letting it escalate further. 1RR should be enforced - but it's going to be pointless when meatpuppetry begins. We therefore need to prevent this continuing with such sanctions I've suggested in the above header as the next starting point. Ncmvocalist (talk) 14:39, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Whether or not bans and more blocks are put in place, a 1RR rule and strict application of civility would do a lot of good. Perhaps a note to that effect would be a good idea at the very top of the talk page, and anybody could point to it as a warning to anyone new on the page who didn't already know the history (I assume there will be more and more of those with time). It would help to have several administrators keeping watch, which we seem to have now -- and thank you for that. Noroton (talk) 05:44, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Consensus

It appears as though we have a strong consensus to take action to prevent the edit warring on the Barrack Obama article. Discussion, mediation and 3RR reports have so far failed. I support article bans following User:Ncmvocalist's suggestion above. Albeit, with minor alterations. A WP:1RR limit will be placed on all the above editors (mentioned in Ncmvocalist's list), administrators will have the right to block any of the editors if they exceed this limit. No editors will be blocked at this point as this is a preventative measure. It is advised that all the editors mentioned above will avoid the Barrack Obama article and all Barrack Obama related articles to allow the article's regular editors to clean up/re-shape/and actually contribute. This edit war has gone on long enough, it's time to put an end to it. If, at any time, any of the afforementioned editors refuse to adhere to this, then finite and infinite article bans will be proposed and carried out. Any community thoughts on this? ScarianCall me Pat! 15:10, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Amendment - 2 week article ban for all editors involved. This includes article and talk pages for all Barrack Obama related articles. The article needs a rest, especially at this time. We need to allow the regular contributors and maintainers to work. Any user involved voiding this will/can be blocked in short increments at the administrators discretion. Edit warring is not to be tolerated. ScarianCall me Pat! 15:45, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. Ncmvocalist (talk) 16:02, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If the article probation is to be applied against only the involved editors, perhaps a discreet list could be created by an uninvolved editor/admin? I can see several names that are missing from Ncmvocalist's list, but I'm certainly not an uninvolved editor here, so probably shouldn't be offering up names. I don't think there is a single editor on the article that hasn't done at least one revert during this dust up, myself included, so it'd be nice to know exactly who the probation applies to.--Bobblehead (rants) 16:58, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The editors named above are the most prolific of the warrers. Any more that are visibly seen to be edit warring on his article(s) will also be subjected to the same preventative measures. Does the community agree with the above sanctions? ScarianCall me Pat! 17:16, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Scarian, using the word "involved" creates confusion. Bobblehead and I have certainly been "involved" in the discussions on the talk page, and I'm not a "regular" at that page because I've only been participating on the talk page for about two weeks. You do mean the editors on Ncvocalist's list when you talk about a topic ban, right? I disagree that "regular" editors of the page are the solution. On many, many other biography pages that I've seen, especially political biography articles, the "regulars" are often not providing WP: NPOV (that's not always their fault -- sometimes it's harder to figure out neutrality on a political ariticle). When I WP:CANVASSed for more editors to come to the page a while ago, editors that were much cooler stopped by, and I might try that again if it seems necessary to get a consensus on something. I've seen a lot of, ah, unusual interpretations of language on that talk page so far, so please clarify. Noroton (talk) 18:45, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict)Well, I for one agree that the article needs a rest and an article probation is necessary. I'd just like to see Andyvphil (talk · contribs), Fovean Author (talk · contribs), Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters (talk · contribs), Loonymonkey (talk · contribs), and Brothejr (talk · contribs) added to the list. I'm also not sure if Life.temp (talk · contribs) and Quartermaster (talk · contribs) should be on the list. Both are new to the article (within the last week), so certainly haven't perpetuated the edit war over the last few months and may just be "innocent bystanders" caught up in the general bad faith that pervades the article currently, neither one is a SPA, like WorkerBee74 (talk · contribs), and seem to have block-free histories on Wikipedia, with Quartermaster being around since 2006. --Bobblehead (rants) 19:16, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
1RR, definitely. Topic ban... I dunno - I'd like to see if 1RR is enough to enable other editors to get involved and clean up the article, though I think it would be a generally good idea for a lot of these folks to sit back for a week or two. I'd add WorkerBee74 to the list - this is a clear single-purpose agenda account with 2 edit-warring blocks in less than 2 weeks. Consider User:Shem as well. I would not include Life.temp or Quartermaster, nor Noroton. MastCell Talk 20:45, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
WorkerBee74 is already on Ncmv's list. The list is currently Kossack4Truth, WorkerBee74, Scjessey, Life.temp, and Quartermaster. --Bobblehead (rants) 21:33, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'm confused on my mention, MastCell, and I'd probably just as soon drop the project again if my efforts on the page're portrayed as even remotely similar to what some of these disruptive editors've been pulling. To be blunt, I find "I wouldn't include Life.temp" and "add Shem" in the same sentence downright strange. Shem(talk) 22:10, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I'm on a short wikibreak at the moment, but I thought I'd just add a comment here to defend myself. I received one 12-hour block for edit warring back in April, but I have not participated in (or been reported for) edit warring since then. I would describe myself as "highly active" in talk page discussions, but I have made few edits to the actual article. I have confined my edits mostly to reverting vandalism and correcting WP:BLP violations. I think it is a little unfair that I've been lumped in with the edit warring group, and the only reason I have been given is that I "contribute to the poor atmosphere".
I can understand the desire by administrators to use a topic ban as a way to calm things down, but I think that would be a poor substitute for a little bit more administrator presence. Barack Obama is, after all, the most popular BLP on Wikipedia. It is hardly surprising that things can get a wee bit hectic. -- Scjessey (talk) 22:22, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If you're going to make special rules for this article, they need to be very prominently displayed. I came to the article innocently via a RFC. At the time, I didn't know it was the most viewed article on Wikipedia, that the edit war was so notarious it had been written about in mainstream media, or generally that the history was quite as deranged as it is. The edits I made would not be enough for a simple 3RR warning under normal conditions. The fact that you are now discussing topic-banning me shows that the current attitude regarding this article is not clear to newcomers. Life.temp (talk) 23:04, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
(sorry for joining this discussion late, but I just found out about it) I'm really not sure why you would want to include me on that list. The only reason my name is mentioned so frequently now is because Kossack4Truth got enraged by a single revert I made of one of his edits when he was in the midst of an edit-war. After that, I was added to his list of "exclusionists" and "Obama campaign workers" in every commentary on the topic and a few others have repeated his list. Frankly, it's unwarranted. I don't feel that the nature of any of my edits to the article (which have mostly tended to be single-instance reversions of attempts to add lengthy commentary or criticism sections without consensus) justify labeling me as such. Also, the frequency with which I edit does not come anywhere near the pace of that page. I haven't engaged in revert-wars nor have I performed the kind of lower-level "2-reverts and then repeat the next day" wars that are the real problem. If I am included on this list, then the question is this: If a person is editing tendentiously and edit-warring, is every single editor who reverts one of their edits automatically considered to be edit-warring? If so, that would include you as well, Bobblehead (and you are probably the most experienced and cool-headed editor of that article). Is the only alternative to let them have their way and let the problematic edits stand? That seems completely counter to Wikipedia. That said, I would be interested in hearing from experienced editors like yourself and others about specific edits I have made which are problematic. --Loonymonkey (talk) 16:47, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • My agreement with Scarian's statement and amendment above has not changed. I don't think MastCell has looked through it properly still, but I've reviewed it again anyway. Please note some very minor changes in duration in the list I'd initially made, as well as the addition of 2 other names - Fovean author and lulu.... Ncmvocalist (talk) 04:30, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
An official 1RR for the page is fine by me and would probably be helpful. At this point I do not support topic bans, though that could change at any time. Changing to a strict 1RR is a significant change, and I propose we add to that a strict interpretation of WP:CIV on the article talk page. I think we should try those measures first, and those editors who are having trouble with those restrictions or otherwise editing disruptively can then receive topic bans. I'm not comfortable topic banning a number of accounts based on little or no evidence and I'm not sure that would help the page right now. There also does not seem to be agreement about which accounts to ban, and I don't think it's worth our time to haggle over that at this point (if we impose stricter rules that apply to everyone first, it should be fairly easy to tell which editors are able to edit within the rules and those who need a vacation from the article). Let's try some article wide remedies first and then move on to individual remedies if that's necessary.
We seem to have some agreement that a 1RR restriction is a good thing so maybe we should go ahead and impose that, but I'm not sure about the protocol for implementing it. I'm already watching the page though and am willing to help enforce 1RR and civil editing practices with blocks if necessary, which I've already made clear on the article talk page.--Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 06:55, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Most of thse comments as applied to me are factually wrong. If you are going to insist on including me in this, you need to explain why. Examples. Ncmvocalist said "These suggested sanctions are of those who have actually to a great extent (and sometimes persistently) contributed to the long-term poor atmosphere". I first edited the article 4 days ago. The entirety of my so-called edit-warring consists of two reverts. Explain how 2 reverts, discussed in Talk, constitutes "extensive, persistent, long-term" anything. Scarian said: "The editors named above are the most prolific of the warrers." Two reverts is prolific edit-warring? I haven't even been given a warning by a neutral party. Life.temp (talk) 09:15, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Several warnings by neutral administrators were placed on the article Talk page before you started editing the article.
These warnings by multiple neutral admins were directed to all editors working on the article.
Including you.
You ignored them.
The first time, you deleted 732 words. The second time, after I left a final warning on your User Talk page and on the article Talk page, you deleted nearly 1,000. Both times, you deleted anything resembling criticism and controversy from the article, leaving a perfect hagiography. Any mention of Jeremiah Wright and Tony Rezko, undeniably two of the major figures in Obama's life, was completely erased. All articles are required to comply with WP:NPOV, including articles about Messianic politicians whose controversies can be concealed in satellite articles where no one will ever read them.
As a result, the comments about you edit warring in defiance of multiple warnings are undeniably, 100% accurate.
I have started a voluntary 30-day Wikibreak from the entire topic, including the satellite articles. I signed on to the truce before I left. Everyone else has signed on for the truce except Life.temp, who apparently reserves the right to gut the article whenever he/she feels like it. Six-month topic ban for Life.temp. Anything more at this point would be admins throwing their weight around, since the rest of us have worked it out for ourselves while admins chatted and did nothing about some of the worst offenders; anything less would be a mockery of WP:NPOV. Kossack4Truth (talk) 11:23, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
You weren't asked to continue your personality warring here. I asked the admins involved to explain their opinions. For the record, I haven't seen any admin warnings or a truce. There is no section titled "Warning" (other than Kossack4Truth's) and no section titled "Truce." Searching the page for "warning" yields no admin warnings; searching for "truce" yields almost nothing. Life.temp (talk) 14:27, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
That comment seems deliberately obtuse. The section where the truce is offered, and where everyone expressed agreement except you, is called "End of the edit war." I signed it before I got a 24-hour block, indicating that I am not going to editwar any more, so I think the block was undeserved.
But you commented in that section, you attacked the truce offered by Wikidemo and said, "That's not fine." The only one who still wants to editwar is you. Don't claim you did't know about the truce. You edited in that section, in response to Wikidemo's offer, directly beneath the offer. You rejected his offer, saying "That isn't fine," so don't tell us you didn't know about it. WorkerBee74 (talk) 17:18, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

← Okay, I'm a bit confused at the moment. Is the 1RR and civility probation being applied against all editors of the Barack Obama topic, or just to the editors currently on Nmcvocalist's list? Either way is fine with me, I'm just seeing mention above that the 1RR and civility probation are being applied against just the editors on Nmcvocalist's list and that it is being applied on the topic in general (which to me implies it's against everyone that decides to edit the article). --Bobblehead (rants) 15:17, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

My suggestion at least is that 1RR and civility probation applies to the whole article, not to individual editors. I think that is very much the better route.--Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 17:26, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Rather than voting on specific editors, which I think is going to leave a bad taste, I'd agree with Bigtimepeace that 1RR and article probation are the way to go. If some of these more... checkered editors can abide by that, then it's a win. If they can't, it will become apparent and they'll be blocked soon enough. An alternative would be to take the dispute to ArbCom, where I forsee a lengthy, ugly process resulting in a series of article bans for specific editors as well as article probation. MastCell Talk 17:35, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
That's fine with me. Thanks for the clarification. --Bobblehead (rants) 17:39, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I support MastCell's suggestion that we impose 1RR on all participants and put the Barack Obama article under Wikipedia:Article probation. A scheme that collects votes on restricting individual editors seems distasteful. If we are going to keep this out of Arbcom for any length of time we need a simple approach that isn't unfair to individuals. EdJohnston (talk) 17:59, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
That makes three admins (MastCell, EdJohnston, and myself) who support this approach. I'm not familiar with how this actually works, but I assume our model would be the community imposed restrictions on Homeopathy found over at Wikipedia:General sanctions? Can a few admins come to agreement on that here or does it need to be taken somewhere else? I'm going offline for the rest of the day in a little bit but just want to make clear that I fully support 1RR + article probation and am willing to help enforce that.--Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 18:10, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

[out] Am I correct in assuming that this restriction does not apply to reverts of obvious BLP violations and vandalism? I've spent a great deal of time on this article and it has long been a target of both, having nothing to do with the current spate of POV editing and I am concerned about this. Tvoz/talk 03:52, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Most definitely correct. "Obvious" - and that's the key word, it really does have to be obvious - BLP violations and vandalism can and should be reverted as many times as necessary here and anywhere else. The restrictions would not apply to dealing with those kind of edits.--Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 05:48, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. Tvoz/talk 06:19, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Updated Suggestions by Ncmv and Scarian

NOTES ABOUT SUGGESTIONS

Suggestions are set out separately for comment. The moment consensus is reached for a suggestion by the community, or otherwise, it will be enforced. Proposed bans are for a variety of problems, such as for contribution to the poor atmosphere, edit-warring, disruption, incivility and/or the like.... All Obama-related pages that are referred to below include relevant talk pages. Any users violating bans (related to them) for the first time should be blocked for a week, and a month thereafter. In the event more than one ban is supported on a certain user, the longer ban will prevail.

Ncmvocalist (talk) 16:49, 13 June 2008 (UTC) &[reply]

Agreed. ScarianCall me Pat! 16:52, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Question: In the interests of neutrality, shouldn't any proposed bans/blocks apply to McCain-related pages as well? -- Scjessey (talk) 17:06, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, but I do not see the point of this section and do not find it at all helpful. I think it will only serve to make the discussion more complex and difficult to resolve and possibly devolve into a flame war. We are also discussing these same issues in the previous section, and I don't see what's really different here. We already seem to have a consensus for a 1RR so I don't see why we need to discuss that, and there have been no objections to a civility probation for the article either. Both should apply to the entire article rather than to individual editors, if nothing else for the simple reason that gangloads of new editors will come to the article in the weeks and months ahead.
Above we were discussing restrictions to Barack Obama, now these proposals relate to "all Obama-related pages." I don't support that at all. There are many Obama related pages (most of which these editors don't even edit on) and applying restrictions to all of them is utterly absurd. Most are not problematic, and it is not even spelled out what "Obama-related" means.
Myself and to some extent MastCell have objected to individual topic bans at this point. All that has happened below is that they have been broken out into individual sections, which obviously does nothing to quell my objection. Honestly, what is a 2 or 3 week topic ban supposed to accomplish? I do not see how that is is helpful. The problems here are long term and will continue up through November (and beyond if Obama wins the election). Two week topic bans for random editors based on no evidence are not going to do much of anything in my view. We need stricter controls on the article itself, and those who violate those rules can then be topic banned, blocked, etc.
What is the harm in that approach? If we can agree to try that for awhile we can avoid extending this discussion unnecessarily. I don't think there is a consensus for topic bans right now, so let's hold off on them.--Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 17:48, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
See also the 1RR + article probation discussion in the previous section, which if agreed to would obviate the need for this discussion.--Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 18:11, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I tend to disagree with that logic - we should not be having to restart discussion the moment those so-called 'controls' are not working on a special BLP that shouldn't be having these problems in the first place. Nor should this mess spill again elsewhere on other related pages. So far, I've only seen a couple of the mentioned editors actively trying to change their approach - one of whom agreed to voluntarily take on the ban, and recognizes the need for the break, in order to contribute constructively. The remainder have continued to oppose and refuse to listen, or look at what/how they've contributed to this mess individually.
  • The community's approach (so far) has generally been ineffective on BLP-related articles, with many proceeding to arbitration. Perhaps not nearly enough importance is put on dealing with problems, with more of the 'they'll be blocked soon enough anyway' attitude. Wide measures alone do. not. work. The (majority of the) Committee acknowledges and recognizes the community reluctance to deal with some of these problems head on, and there are attempts under way to introduce measures that will give individual administrators the power to deal with this rather than dragging it through every step of DR, or even community discussions like this one.
  • In case it wasn't clear, the Committee refuses to overturn a decisions by the wide community, whether they are enforced individually at separate times or not. I'm not at all expecting or insisting these bans be enforced right away, if at all. But it's certainly something that can be dealt with here, much more promptly (and effectively). If both of you are still reluctant because of 'lack of evidence' and other formalities, then yes, we have no option but to take it to arbitration - if the community is bold in taking effective preventative steps before hand (like now), then the whole ugly process won't be necessary, and we won't need to spend additional discussion time on this - yet again. The harm is not effectively dealing with the problems in the first place - if they were, then it's unlikely we'd have to recommence this discussion, at least about this group of editors. Ncmvocalist (talk) 06:29, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]


I'm not familiar with this kind of admin-level decisionmaking, but for what little it's worth, these are some of the questions I'd be asking myself (maybe they're all pretty obvious): Would a topic ban help an editor cool down? Is cooling down the answer at this point? Would a topic ban send a message to these editors that they haven't listened to in other forms (talk page messages, 48-hour blocks, etc.) and that would cause them to be more prudent? Would the topic bans send a message to other editors who start acting up in the future? If topic bans were put in place, would that make it easier for admins individually or at AN/I in the future to come down harder on User:X, who was topic banned for just this kind of behavior ... vs. User:X, who caused just this kind of trouble on Obama-related pages ...? I'm not asking for responses here, just pointing out the questions I'd be asking myself. Noroton (talk) 22:22, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Kossack4Truth banned

1) Kossack4Truth (talk · contribs) is banned from all Obama-related pages for 3 months.

Comments by uninvolved users

Proposed. Ncmvocalist (talk) 16:22, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Despite giving himself a "voluntary" break from the Barrack Obama article(s) he still continues to haunt that area making a null edit on the talk page and announcing that he was still watching. I find that sort of behaviour to be unprofessional and unconstructive. ScarianCall me Pat! 17:03, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by involved users

  • Strongly oppose. Scarian mentions "haunting that area making a null edit on the talk page and announcing he was still watching." Scarian probably isn't aware that K4T made a gentlemen's agreement with Wikidemo. K4T agreed that he would attempt to restrain the "editwarrior inclusionists" (mentioning FA, Andy and me by name) if WD attempts to restrain the "editwarrior exclusionists" (mentioning SCJ, LT and LotLE by name). K4T has also left messages on the Talk pages of FA and me. How is he going to make any effort to restrain us if he doesn't watch the article and the Talk page? Scarian is reading some sort of sinister motive into it, but all I see is K4T trying to show that he will honor the agreement he made with WD.
  • He did take a voluntary 30-day topic ban. Nobody made him do it, and he is honoring it. This indicates that he has admitted his conduct is part of the problem. That, plus his constructive comments to several editors on their Talk page (best example at User talk:Bigtimepeace), show that he's doing the right thing. Further protection for the project is unnecessary and counterproductive. WorkerBee74 (talk) 23:14, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as excessive and out of proportion with remedies for the other involved editors. For the most part I don't see anything to be gained by singling some people out for harsher treatment than others. Given that (almost) everyone is trying to find a way to get along now it's best to a fresh chance to everyone who has agreed to cooperate, and deal with people firmly only if they cause new disruption. Assuming the sockpuppet accusations do not pan out (and they don't seem to), K4T's overall participation here as much as I have complained at times seems to be in good faith. K4T writes well, is capable of positive contributions, and seems to want to work together at this point. I was a little perplexed by that "null edit" also but I don't see it as anything sinister. Maybe just a little too wound up in process still. Everyone involved needs to be counseled that the goal is to go back to editing this article and articles on other subjects without having to think of truces, agreements, alliances, policing, watching over things, etc. Wikidemo (talk) 23:53, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strongly support. Actually, not nearly long enough time, but at least it would be a start. Having a sockpuppet vote "oppose" just continues the bad faith. LotLE×talk 00:04, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strongly Oppose. He's one of the best editors on here - one of the few bastions against the rantings of LotLE and the like. Fovean Author (talk) 00:32, 15 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

WorkerBee74 banned

2) WorkerBee74 (talk · contribs) is banned from all Obama-related pages for 2 months. (Note: this user was blocked a few days ago for edit-warring on this category of pages)

Comments by uninvolved users

Proposed. Ncmvocalist (talk) 16:22, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by involved users

  • Opposed. Like K4T, I signed the truce. That is my word. I will edit war no more. Minutes later I was blocked for 24 hours. That protective measure was more than sufficient, in fact it was overkill because I'd just signed the truce.
Oh well, water under the bridge. Since the block expired, I have been well-behaved. I acknowledge that my conduct was part of the problem and as I said, I have signed the truce. I have given my word that I will editwar no more. No further protective measures are needed. WorkerBee74 (talk) 23:14, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fovean_Author banned

3) Fovean Author (talk · contribs) is topic-banned from all Obama-related pages for 1 month. (Note: this user was blocked recently for edit-warring on this category of pages)

Comments by uninvolved users

Proposed. Ncmvocalist (talk) 16:22, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by involved users

  • Strongly support. Fovean_Author, sockpuppet or no, has leveled the worst (placing "Obama apologist" on another editor's user page) personal attacks ("your Messiah Obama") and demonstrated the greatest disregard for consensus of this entire brouhaha. Edits like the above indicate a severe absence of good will and fundamental misunderstanding of how collaboration works. I'd support even stronger sanctions; this user's behavior's been far worse than User:Kossack4Truth's. Shem(talk) 21:33, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strongly oppose. That was before he was blocked. FA has been well behaved since the block expired. Unlike LT he hasn't defiantly rejected the truce. I think the only reason he hasn't signed it is that he's voluntarily staying away. In any case, without more recent misbehavior, the block he has already sustained should be sufficient. No further protective measures are needed at this time. WorkerBee74 (talk) 23:14, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strongly support. Longer would be better, but good start. LotLE×talk 00:07, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Scjessey and Lulu_of_the_Lotus_Eaters banned

4) Scjessey (talk · contribs) and Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters (talk · contribs) are topic-banned from all Obama-related pages for 2 weeks.

Comments by uninvolved users

Proposed. Ncmvocalist (talk) 16:22, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by involved users

  • I would accept a two-week topic ban. In fact, I have already begun a voluntary two-week "ban" of all Obama-related pages (including talk pages). I have de-watchlisted all these pages (and McCain) to avoid temptation. -- Scjessey (talk) 16:54, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. I think it's a bit off-balance to put me in there. My edits have all been constructive, but it's true I have a low tolerance for BS from some of above mentioned editors. I'll follow Scjessey's lead, and de-watchlist for my own sanity. LotLE×talk 19:14, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support 2-week topic ban for SCJ. Like K4T, he's being a man, voluntarily taking a topic ban and admitting that his behavior was part of the problem. Strongly support an even stronger sanction against LotLE. He has an extensive history of many blocks for his combative editing over the years. His conduct in this case has been as bad as K4T's, if not worse. And as Noroton points out, even now LotLE continues to be combative. If he's signed the truce by the time I finish typing this, I'd support a 30-day topic ban. If he hasn't, a 3-month topic ban. And if he explicitly and defiantly stated his refusal to sign like LT, 6 months. WorkerBee74 (talk) 23:47, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Jesus! A sockpuppet with more blocks in two weeks of having an account than I have in 5 years is accusing me of more BS. You're right, Noroton, I can't be "diplomatic" about that level of bad faith (not that I think your snide insult above is all that constructive either, but you're definitely nothing like those bad faith editors). That said, I'm confident that the admins who are watching this will keep a close enough eye on the puppet brigades for the next weeks... just about every new editor that has wandered in in the last few weeks since I first edited the Obama article seems to be devoted to encyclopedic editing; as long as K4T/WB74/Andyvphil are off the destruction for a while (with blocks or bans or whatever), I'm sure the article will remain sane. LotLE×talk 00:01, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Wasn't snide, wasn't an insult, wasn't even unconstructive. Noroton (talk) 01:07, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
But it was crunchy and nutritious! Kossack4Truth (talk) 04:53, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Quartermaster and Life.temp banned

5) Quartermaster (talk · contribs) and Life.temp (talk · contribs) are topic-banned from all Obama-related pages for 1 week.

Comments by uninvolved users

Proposed. Ncmvocalist (talk) 16:22, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by involved users

  • Oppose - Quartermaster and Life.temp seem to be innocent bystanders that were caught up in the general atmosphere of bad faith that exists on the Barack Obama article. Both editors have a very limited number of edits on the article and neither one seems to have participated in the edit warring that brought this discussion upon the article and topic in general. --Bobblehead (rants) 18:24, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I believe these individuals were placed on this list for the same reason I was - we "contributed to the poor atmosphere" (even though we didn't "edit war"). It seems to be related to "attitude" on the talk page, rather than edit warring on the article itself. -- Scjessey (talk) 18:36, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Like I said.. Innocent bystanders that were caught up in the general atmosphere of bad faith that exists on the article. On any other article their actions would have been seen as normal editorial decisions, but because the first course of action on the Barack Obama article is to revert and then accuse of some sort of bias they're collateral damage here. As far as you not edit warring, you seriously need to reconsider your actions on the article. While I may agree with many of your reasonings behind your actions, you have certainly edit warred and inserted your share of incivility into the article. You've taken an overly strict interpretation of WP:BLP and used it as a hammer to try and limit the amount of negative information about Obama that is in the article and are now using that overly strict interpretation to claim that you have not edit warred. Much of what you have reverted under the guise of BLP is at worst at odds with WP:UNDUE, but is certainly not such an obvious violation of BLP that demands immediate removal from the article. The fact that you have only gotten one short block as a result of this edit war is just blind luck in that the reviewing admins on AN/3RR only looked at your edit summaries and failed to look at the content of reverts and whether or not you actually were removing obvious BLP violations. --Bobblehead (rants) 19:12, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I haven't received more than one block because (a) I have not violated 3RR, and (b) my edits have all been in accordance with the rules laid out in WP:BLP. You obviously perceive my contributions as edit warring, but that doesn't necessarily make it so. WP:BLP articles absolutely require a special level of vigilance when it comes to the inclusion of information. If I see a clear violation of policy that essentially defames an individual through the use of guilt-by-association it makes sense for me to enforce the rules, does it not? It seems extraordinarily unfair to lump me in with the individuals who seek to commit these BLP violations. Please try to understand that there is a significant difference between "limiting negative information" and "limiting inappropriate information". I've never had any objection to negative information about Obama. My objection is with negative information about other people, such as specifics concerning Jack Ryan's divorce, which violates WP:BLP#Criticism and praise. -- Scjessey (talk) 20:06, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Seriously man.. You need to reconsider your interpretation of BLP and how you apply it. I am not the first person to tell you that how you are applying BLP on the Obama article is not correct. I'm not even the first person in this section to tell you that. Perhaps there is something to what we are saying and perhaps you should adjust your interpretation and your application of that interpretation. If 1RR is applied to the article/topic, I can guarantee you that if you try to apply your interpretation of BLP as you have historically, you will get more blocks. --Bobblehead (rants) 20:26, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose topic ban on QM. BH is correct in this case. QM is just an innocent bystander who tried to help. Like other cases I opposed above, further protection is not necessary and against the spirit of a Wiki. But I Maximally support 6-month topic ban plus a 48-hour block for LT, for the many compelling reasons K4T has cited above. WorkerBee74 (talk) 23:47, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. Both of these editor have acted in good faith, and made productive edits. However, a week of cooling down isn't a big thing for either of them. LotLE×talk 00:09, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. I made 3 edits. That's the total for all Obama-related articles, in my life. My first edit was less than a week ago. I'm a little frustrated that this is being justified because of "long-term, extensive, prolific edit-warring", and that my request for an explanation is being ignored. I explained my edits in talk, and grounded them in policy. As soon as I saw this discussion on ANI and realized just how pervasive the problems are, I stopped editing. Life.temp (talk) 03:20, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

1RR on certain editors on Obama-related pages

6) Andyvphil (talk · contribs), Kossack4Truth (talk · contribs), WorkerBee74 (talk · contribs), Fovean Author (talk · contribs), Scjessey (talk · contribs), Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters (talk · contribs), Quartermaster (talk · contribs) and Life.temp (talk · contribs) are subject to standard WP:1RR on Obama-related pages.

Comments by uninvolved users

Proposed by Scarian. Ncmvocalist (talk) 16:22, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by involved users

I have two questions:
  1. How long would the 1RR policy be in effect?
  2. Does the 1RR policy apply to BLP-related reverts that fall under the auspices of WP:VANDALISM and WP:GRAPEVINE?
-- Scjessey (talk) 16:53, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Answers:
  1. Personally I think it would be logical to have it an undefined amount of time (Especially before/during/after November). Anyway, there is no need for an editor to make more than 1 revert in 24 hours. The talk page is far more constructive.
  2. There is no problem with reverting edits that consist of blatant and transparent vandalism and WP:BLP violations. That is standard wiki-policy now. ScarianCall me Pat! 17:08, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The problem I see, then, is what actually constitutes a "WP:BLP violation"? The "content war" has revolved around the inclusion/exclusion of details not related to the subject of the BLP. For example, "inclusionists" have demanded the addition of specific, inflammatory details about Bill Ayers so that "people can judge Obama by the company he keeps." That seems like a clear BLP violation to me, because it contravenes what is said in the criticism and praise section of WP:BLP when it states that "[Content] should be about the subject of the article specifically. Beware of claims that rely on guilt by association." It would seem that administrators would have to be more specific about what kind of reversions would be allowable. -- Scjessey (talk) 17:23, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
The short answer to this would be the same as for vandalism - if it's debatable whether something is a BLP violation then don't violate 1RR over it. The Bill Ayers thing is not a clear cut example of a BLP violation, it is at least debatable and in my view relates more to NPOV actually. It's been the source of a huge disputed so obviously one could not violate 1RR over it. Were this restriction to be imposed (and I think it should be imposed on the whole page) you would repeatedly revert per BLP only for things like "it was rumored on the internet that Obama once went to jail" or things of that ilk (there could be tons of examples). The stuff about Ayers or Rezko and similar material in the future would need to be discussed on the talk page.--Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 17:58, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
When EvilSpartan asked about the Bill Ayers business at WP:BLP/N, I suggested they not comment on it before the proposal was resolved, and the last time I checked they did ignore it, but now I'm sorry I said that. It would be a really good idea for Sjessey to consult someone or someones very knowledgeable about WP:BLP who would tell him just how wrong he and a slew of other editors on the Talk:Barack Obama page are on this. In any event, since information on Ayers has been discussed and no consensus has been reached, it can't be restored to the page unless a consensus forms to do so. Edits that add Ayers material should be reverted at this point. Noroton (talk) 20:42, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  1. Support, because indiscriminately placing 1RR on all the page's contributors as suggested below (including long-time productive editors) isn't necessary and would empower sock/meatpuppetry. Shem(talk) 16:59, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment. I don't see how a 1RR empowers sockpuppets more than 3RR - editors who use socks have an advantage in either situation. The point of an article-wide 1RR is not to punish productive and constructive editors, it's to bring some sanity to the page. There is also debate about who deserves to be under such a restriction and who does not. Sometimes I feel all of Wikipedia could do with a 1RR restriction, so I don't think it's too much to ask here. The good editors will have no problem holding to it and using the talk page and those who continue to edit war can be quickly identified.--Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 17:58, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Oppose/Comment - Unless Andyvphil (talk · contribs) is included on this list I can't support restricting the number of reverts to just a limited number of users. Andyvphil and his complete inability to discuss things civily, to find a compromise, or comply with consensus that was established despite him is the one that is primarily responsible for driving the main contributors off the article. Any remedy that fails to include Andyvphil has a glaring hole in it that will only perpetuate the current atmosphere of bad faith and edit warring. --Bobblehead (rants) 18:19, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
His name was meant to be on the list, but I'd missed it - I've added it in now. If you change your mind, please strike through your previous comment (above) rather than delete it. Cheers - Ncmvocalist (talk) 05:32, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for adding the Andyvphil, so I've striken out that portion of my comment, but I'm still concerned that Life.temp and Quartermaster are included on the list. Would it be possible to create a new section for them getting 1RR as you did up above with the topic ban? --Bobblehead (rants) 18:59, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  1. Support as a second-best proposal. A 1RR restriction on all editors seems even better to me, but I'm not very familiar with the gamesmanship that is played with reverting. I think a number of new editors who have shown up on the page and reverted have not all been sockpuppets, so restricting all editors might work better. This and many of the other proposals here that force editors to try to work together if they want changes are all helpful. Noroton (talk) 20:34, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Qualified support. If admins such as BTP will closely monitor the article and Talk page, reverting any substantial edits that are unsupported by consensus (with warnings or blocks of increasing length as appropriate to offending editors), then this can work. WorkerBee74 (talk) 23:47, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Support but see no reason not to extend this to all editors (with some qualifications, discussed in that proposal) Wikidemo (talk) 00:10, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Oppose, for reasons given above. Please stop including me in this group. I haven't even been editing the article for a week. Life.temp (talk) 03:22, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

1RR on all editors on Obama-related pages

7) All users who edit on Obama-related pages are subject to standard WP:1RR on those pages.

Comments by uninvolved users

Proposed. Ncmvocalist (talk) 16:22, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Support. EdJohnston (talk) 16:36, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by involved users

  • Support - See my comments here. That being said, a general 1RR/civility probation on the topic as a whole is probably in order as more than likely any list that is confined to a specific number of users will grow quickly the farther we get into the election cycle. --Bobblehead (rants) 18:29, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support — Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I take this to mean that if someone makes an edit and it is reverted, no further reverting should take place and the matter should be discussed on the talk page. Makes sense. Noroton (talk) 20:25, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
(to Norton) - I think this means that no single editor may revert more than once. You might want to look at WP:3RR and WP:EW for some language as to what is considered a reversion. Tag-teaming could remain a problem, but it may informally still be considered meat-puppetry or simply tendentious editing. Wikidemo (talk) 20:28, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. I'll still support. Noroton (talk) 22:25, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - with some leniency for acknowledged or self-reverted mistakes and also new editors who miss the notice. Also, we should re-evaluate and consider relaxing this after a month or two, and again after the election. There's no reason to edit war, period, but singling out the Obama pages for indefinite special watch could be a burden and may be unnecessary if we get back to normal editing. Wikidemo (talk) 20:28, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I should add that 1RR restriction should not restrain any administrator who is policing the article in their role as administrator. Also, all but the most egregious and clear BLP violations (e.g. racist epithets) should be covered under 1RR, in order to quell ongoing disagreement over the applicability of BLP to Obama and other public figures, and because we have enough people watching that nobody needs to do it alone.Wikidemo (talk) 00:18, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm opposed 'cause I support the "certain editors" sanctions outlined in the previous proposal. Trying to keep the peace on this article isn't fun or easy, and we'd do a disservice to its quality contributors and mediators if their hands're bound due to others' bad behavior. Shem(talk) 04:31, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

2 week ban on certain editors on Obama-related pages

8) Kossack4Truth (talk · contribs), WorkerBee74 (talk · contribs), Fovean Author (talk · contribs), Scjessey (talk · contribs), Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters (talk · contribs), Quartermaster (talk · contribs) and Life.temp (talk · contribs) are banned from making edits on Obama-related pages for 2 weeks.

Comments by uninvolved users

A proposal. Ncmvocalist (talk) 16:22, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by involved users

No good can come from more comments on this idea by involved editors (except perhaps objections from those listed). We need to try to get along, and comments calling for blocks or bans on other editors won't promote that. I've made my feelings known on this already. Let outside editors and admins decide this one. Noroton (talk) 20:23, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
With that in mind I've refrained from commenting on most of the proposals - that does not imply support, opposition, or indifference. I just see nothing to be gained by my advocating sactions. Wikidemo (talk) 00:23, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

2 week ban on all edit-war involved editors on Obama-related pages

9) All involved users are banned from making edits on Obama-related pages for 2 weeks.

Comments by uninvolved users

Proposed (by Scarian). Ncmvocalist (talk) 16:22, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by involved users

  1. Totally opposed. I don't have time to respond to the other proposals right now, but this one should be a non-starter. As is the case with long-term full protection, this goes completely against the spirit of a wiki. Shem(talk) 16:57, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  2. I would oppose this as well. How would this be any different from full-page protection? -- Scjessey (talk) 17:02, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Oppose - Might as well just put the article in full protection if a total ban is imposed. --Bobblehead (rants) 18:33, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    1. Support - With Scarian's clarification, I can now support this proposal. --Bobblehead (rants) 19:01, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  4. Oppose — things have cooled down enough at this point, and if any editors haven't cooled down, they never will. I'd rather have editors continue getting used to working together. Noroton (talk) 20:18, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't actually say that. I said, or at least meant, any of the involved editors whom are edit warring. I have changed it to reflect this. ScarianCall me Pat! 20:57, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
OK, good to know it. Thanks for clearing that up. I don't support this language, though.Noroton (talk) 01:10, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Civility parole on all editors on Obama-related pages

10) All users who make edits on Obama-related pages are subject to standard civility parole on those pages.

Comments by uninvolved users

Proposed. Ncmvocalist (talk) 16:22, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Support Having stumbled upon this mess tangentially while removing a personal attack from userspace, I have to say the level of discourse on the Obama talk page reminds me of divorce or custody case depositions. It took 3 neat bourbons to slog through all the muck and now I have to read it all again to make sure I have it straight. L0b0t (talk) 20:46, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]


Comments by involved users

  1. Support; the sooner, the better. Shem(talk) 17:00, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  2. Support - This is badly needed. It is near impossible to get consensus built on disputed content with all the name calling and general lack of good faith. --Bobblehead (rants) 18:31, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  3. Strong support -- lack of civility has been poisoning the atmosphere. I know it's been more difficult for me to work with editors A, B and C after I see a lack of civility from editors X, Y and Z, and I can't be the only one affected this way. I'm convinced this is one reason positions have sometimes hardened, preventing a consensus.Noroton (talk) 20:16, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Responses from Andyvphil, transcluded from User_talk:Andyvphil

The Signpost: 15 October 2012

October 2014

Stop icon with clock
You have been blocked temporarily from editing for persistent disruptive editing. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions. If you think there are good reasons why you should be unblocked, you may appeal this block by adding the following text below this notice: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}. However, you should read the guide to appealing blocks first.  Gamaliel (talk) 01:04, 20 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
You are using this template in the wrong namespace. Use this template on your talk page instead.
  • Do you agree not to edit Gamaliel's page for the duration of this block? That is, no earlier than 01:03 GMT 21 Oct 2014 (if I got the time conversion right?--v/r - TP 03:16, 20 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I'm asking to be unblocked because the block was in violation of policy. I want that addressed on its merits, not evaded. Andyvphil (talk) 04:03, 20 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Given my previous disagreements with Andyvphil regarding his discussion style, I don't enjoy agreeing with him on this, but he's right. The block is bad on its face, and needs reverted. After that, a discussion thread can be opened at the appropriate noticeboard regarding Gamaliel's issues with things Andyvphil has posted. LHMask me a question 04:09, 20 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Gamaliel finally unblocked at the very moment I was typing the above post. While that is a positive development, the unblock happened with an edit summary of "harass away", and was followed by a blanking and protection of Gamaliel's talkpage, and a further refusal of my request for diffs regarding the serious accusations leveled at Andyvphil. LHMask me a question 04:18, 20 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for asking. How do you suggest I proceed so as to get access to the hidden text, so that I may properly contest that action? Andyvphil (talk) 04:27, 20 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Since you are the person who made the post that was revdel'd, I think you should probably just ask an admin to tell you what the content was. At that point, you could either ask Gamaliel why it was revdel'd, if you're still unsure, or take it to the appropriate noticeboard. If you do so, I would strongly encourage you to mollify your strident tone as much as possible. I know you feel wronged--and have reason to feel that way, given the WP:INVOLVED block that was levied against you--but taking such a tone sometimes makes it difficult to get to any points you are trying to make in a given discussion. Regards, LHMask me a question 04:35, 20 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I think my tone above was remarkably polite, under the circumstances. Are you an administrator? I can't say I know any that I would want to put the request to, and you are already somewhat familiar with the issue. Andyvphil (talk) 04:58, 20 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I am not, nor do I particularly wish to be. Perhaps @TParis: could assist you? LHMask me a question 05:03, 20 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, he is the obvious choice. Thanks again. Since you pinged him, I'll just wait here.
@Tparis: I believe the appropriate word is, "please".Andyvphil (talk) 05:10, 20 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Your diff has been emailed to you.--v/r - TP 05:23, 20 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

transcluded for convenience, the conversation from Gamaliel's talk page that resulted in a block:

removal from public archives

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


I will be objecting to your actions here.[59] It will be helpful in defending my words if I have access to them. Will you supply this?

I will not re-add these edits to the page in question unless they are deemed unobjectionable. Andyvphil (talk) 12:41, 18 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I have no objection to any complaint or review of my actions, but such a review should not serve as another soapbox to discuss negative, evidence-free theories about a living individual, and I fear that providing you with those offensive comments would lead to this, so I must decline your polite request.
Since we're being polite and not in the heat of an argument or an editing conflict, I will ask you to reconsider the things you have said about the subject of the article. You have repeatedly suggested that a prominent and successful academic of color was a failure as an academic and only succeeded as a result of affirmative action, despite ample evidence of his achievments in his field. This is incredibly offensive and racist, even if you do not mean it to be, and I find it particularly offensive personally as an academic who is a racial minority myself. Gamaliel (talk) 16:21, 18 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Gamaliel, I suspect you will also wish to see this AN/I thread started by Andyvphil: Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Participation by Admin Dreadstar in edit war at The Federalist (website) AFTER fully protecting the article. Prioryman (talk) 16:07, 18 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. Gamaliel (talk) 16:21, 18 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
"You have repeatedly suggested that a prominent and successful academic of color was a failure as an academic and only succeeded as a result of affirmative action..."
No, I have not. He washed out at UTA, but succeeded in getting degrees at Harvard (with honors) and Columbia, and I have not suggested otherwise. Nor have I ever said that he succeeded "only" as a result of affirmative action. I have inquired of the new editors at NGT if they have seen evidence of material on help that Tyson was given because of his race that the group of editors previously in control of the page might have thought inappropriate to mention, as they had in the case of Tyson being kicked out of the UTA PhD program. If the material exists but has been, like the UTA failure, suppressed or minimized, it will be entirely appropriate to evaluate whether the judgement of the previously resident group of editors should be overruled.
This correction to your characterization of what I said is, I believe, similar to what I said in response to someone else who mischaracterized what I had written, and which was part of what you deleted. That I can reproduce similar material at will is obvious, and makes your claim that supplying me with the text you deleted will somehow empower me to repeat sentiments you find offensive, in a way that I would otherwise be unable to, obviously absurd.
The mischaracterization of what I had written was preceeded by the expression, "Bullshit!" Part of what you deleted was my response, not in kind, listing various incivilities to which I had been subjected in the course of this discussion, including your use of the exact same term in a revert edit comment. It was particularly inappropriate of you to removed this.
Inasmuch as your refusal does not serve your stated purpose, I renew my request for access to the deleted text. Andyvphil (talk) 04:09, 19 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I have reviewed your deleted comments again and I believe you are not accurately or not completely summarizing them here. Nor do I feel you grasp the substance of my comments to you given that you have largely focused on the single word "only". It's immaterial whether you assert that someone only succeeded because of an racist assumption unsupported by evidence, or in part because of a racist assumption unsupported by evidence. Gamaliel (talk) 04:25, 19 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I'm certainly not claiming to "accurately [and] completely summariz[e]" comments I cannot examine. The observation that, if Tyson benefited from assistance because of his race, that certain editors may have decided to suppress mention of that fact is not a "racist assertion", and the clearly overboard insertion of "only" in your mal-description of my words is something you are responsible for. You are WP:INVOLVED. I suggest you seek a second opinion. Andyvphil (talk) 05:33, 19 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
If you make an assertion about someone with no evidence to back that assertion up beyond the color of that person's skin, then that is, by definition, racist. If you wish to expound further on this matter, find somewhere else to do so besides my talk page. Gamaliel (talk) 05:42, 19 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
That is of course nonsense unless you exclude assertions about probability from the category "assertions". For example, if I assert someone is more likely to carry the gene for sickle cell anemia with no evidence other than the color of his skin that is a true fact, and truths are by definition not racist. Falsehood is the part of the definition of racism that you are omitting.
You're claim that I repeatedly made a "racist assertion" implies that you can supply an actual racist quote from my writings that one hiding revert will not have deleted. Please do so.
As to communicating with you on your talk page, you have an obligation to be responsive in relation to inquiries about your admin actions. I can't offhand supply the shortcut to the relevant paragraph , though I read it recently, but I assume you know which one it is. Something about ACCOUNTABILITY, maybe? Andyvphil (talk) 14:51, 19 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I do not have the obligation to repeatedly engage with someone who insists on making blanket racist assertions. I will ask you a second time, politely, to drop it because I find your comments personally offensive, for reasons I have already explained to you and you choose to ignore, and in violation of Wikipedia policies. I will also ask you a second time, politely, to take this conversation elsewhere. The third time I have to do either one in regards to my talk page will be the last, and will not be polite, and may involve blocking and/or profanity in multiple languages. In case you do not get the hint, I am also archiving this conversation. Gamaliel (talk) 16:54, 19 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

[[I added the following response after the "archive" box [60]]]

Putting a box around our conversation to date does not relieve you from your duty as an administrator to "[respond] promptly and fully to all good-faith concerns raised about [your] administrative actions." In addition to concealing the content and existence of my response to a personal attack, you have mischaracterized what I have supposedly written on multiple occasions both as to its exact content and character ("racist") while refusing to produce any examples to which those mischaracterizations can be compared. Your threat to further clown yourself by using still more abusive language and/or a block to respond to what you have previously admitted was a civil inquiry is noted. Andyvphil (talk) 00:38, 20 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

[[This was reverted with the comment: "What part of 'go away' do you not understand?" ['https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Gamaliel&diff=prev&oldid=630310213]]]

[[I placed the following in the wrong place, then attempted to self-revert (intending to place it correctly) and discovered a block had gone into effect. G had already reverted it, with a dismissive "m".[61]]]

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Gamaliel&diff=prev&oldid=630310213 I won't revert your removal of my immediately preceeding comment from your talk page, as I understand you have wider than usual latitude here. Though I also understand that selective removals can be considered problematic. I suggest you self revert.

I understand "go away" perfectly well. What part of my observation that "go away" is an out-of-policy response to a civil inquiry as to your administrative actions are you having difficulty understanding? If you are having a problem remaining civil there is, I have discovered, a procedure you are directed to follow. You're much more familiar with process than I. You must know this. Andyvphil (talk) 00:59, 20 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Some relevant policy, much of it violated:

Wikipedia:Administrators WP:Administrators

This page in a nutshell: Administrators are... expected to observe a high standard of conduct, to use the tools fairly, and never to use them to gain advantage in a dispute. ...

Administrator conduct

...consistently or egregiously poor judgment may result in the removal of administrator status. ...if an administrator finds that he or she cannot adhere to site policies... while addressing a given issue, then the administrator should bring the issue to a noticeboard or refer it to another administrator to address...

Accountability

WP:ADMINACCT Administrators are accountable for their actions involving administrator tools... Subject only to the bounds of civility, avoiding personal attacks, and reasonable good faith, editors are free to question or to criticize administrator actions. Administrators are expected to respond promptly and civilly to queries about their Wikipedia-related conduct and administrator actions and to justify them when needed.

Administrators who seriously, or repeatedly, act in a problematic manner... may be sanctioned or have their access removed. In the past, this has happened or been suggested for: ...

  • Breach of basic policies (attacks, biting/civility, edit warring,...)

...

  • Failure to communicate[6] – this can be either to users (e.g., lack of suitable... explanations of actions), or to concerns of the community (especially when explanations or other serious comments are sought).
  • Repeated or consistent poor judgment

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Betacommand

Communication

[62] 7) ... all editors are expected to respond to messages intended for them in a timely manner and to constructively discuss controversial issues. This is especially true for administrators in regard to administrative actions. Such expected communication includes: ... using accurate and descriptive edit and administrative action summaries; and responding promptly and fully to all good-faith concerns raised about their administrative actions.

Here's a list

Of your last 1,000 edits to mainspace.[63] Which one are you most proud of as an example of your most important work? Take a minute to think about it. Do you even need a minute? I thought not. Viriditas (talk) 22:22, 20 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You have way too much time on your hands if you have time for this kind of pathetic attempted snark. I have three candidates. What's yours? Andyvphil (talk) 22:54, 20 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I'm happy to share. Of my last 1000 edits, I'm most proud of: Molly Crabapple (major rewrite); Plaincourault Chapel (new article), Yamaha NS-10 (Good Article review); Cebrennus rechenbergi (major rewrite, DYK review); Paul Conrad (rewrite and GA nom); Cannabis and time perception (new article); Frances Ames (new article); The Exaltation of the Flower (new article); Chain Reaction (sculpture) (rewrite, still working on it); List of City of Santa Monica Designated Historic Landmarks (completed major update); Pay Any Price: Greed, Power, and Endless War (new article). OK, now you? Viriditas (talk) 23:11, 20 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
My, you are one busy Wikipedian. All that and a sustained effort to edit war all mention of Tyson's failings out of Wikipedia, too. In my case I would think 1000 mainspace edits might take me back to 2008, but I am most recently proud of inserting the first hint of fairness to Darren Wilson into the "Shooting of Michael Brown" article, mentioning the eyewitness inadvertently heard describing Brown charging Wilson. Stuck on the page, too, as the resident editors, though mostly with biases different than mine, are not so deeply engaged in denying reality as the Tyson claque. Andyvphil (talk) 23:23, 20 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Because there are only so many hours in a day, I'm not as familiar with Darren Wilson and Michael Brown as you are. Could you tell me what was unfair about it before you modified the article? You don't have to give me an essay or anything, but I am genuinely curious about the topic and how you think you improved it. Viriditas (talk) 23:29, 20 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Reminder

(Redacted this material due to BLP concerns) --John (talk) 18:51, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Topic Ban proposed at ANI

I have proposed that you be topic banned from all edits related to Biographies of Living Persons, and that discretionary sanctions be applied to your edits. This is a sub heading under your ANI thread, and may be found at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Topic Ban of Andyvphil. This has the side effect, hopefully, of separating the discussion of your edits from the discussion of what, if anything, should be done about Gamaliel's. UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 16:25, 21 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Recent ANI

By the way, it was stupid to put in that ANI request. Not only did you obviously get yourself in hot water, but even if EVERYONE there agreed with you, they still wouldn't have the power to do anything about it. Only the arbitration committee in normal circumstances (and stewards/jimbo in extraordinary circumstances) have the authority to remove someone from being an admin. So what you were asking for they didn't have the authority to do. Read this if you want to know more:Wikipedia:Removing_administrator_rights. --Obsidi (talk) 22:06, 21 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

That's interesting, and thanks for the link, but contrary to what drmies says, I am not a "procedural wonk". ANI was recommended to me by the admin who I asked to provide me with the revdel text (which he, unlike Gamaliel, courteously did). He seems quite determined that Gamaliel's lack of "white privilege" should protect his bit, and did not provide the link you have, but perhaps he did not realize I would be interested in it. You have failed to note that part (b) of my request was, iirc, merely a request for information on how to begin, which I gather you have now provided. And part (a) is, I still suppose, within the ambit of ANI? In any case, the hot water does not discomfort me much. The surprisingly unanimous (I was expecting some, but didn't realize the rot had gone this far) three-minute hate that was the reaction is so obviously Orwellian that it has occurred to me that I may want to seek attention to it outside Wikipedia as the best way to improve the workings of the project. If they ban me without providing plausible diffs, that'll help. Andyvphil (talk) 00:13, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Asking to get the revdel information sent to you is perfectly acceptable to go to ANI for that (just not the rest of the hornets nest). --Obsidi (talk) 02:26, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I already have it. I was told not to quote it. The request is not to get it, but to have it undeleted. Andyvphil (talk) 02:33, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict)I agree with Obsidi. Your only viable option would've been to open an Arbcom request for Gamaliel's tools which, if they went by the letter of the law, would have resulted in desysopping, in my opinion. The block was very out-of-process, ass was the protection of his own talkpage, and (possibly) the revdel, depending upon what you said in it. In all cases, if he thought admin action was needed, he should've gone to the appropriate noticeboard, not done it himself. That said, it was a terrible idea to open that ANI. You have angered so many editors with whom you disagree politically that it was bound to turn out poorly for you. LHMask me a question 00:19, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
As I said, I was just doing what I understood an admin to whom I posed the question recommended. If the denizens at ANI want to clearly demonstrate just how hostile the environment at Wikipedia is for editors who don't share their political views, that may not be entirely a bad thing. Timid responses to intimidation is a part of the problem I will not be contributing to. Andyvphil (talk) 00:28, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
If you're referring to me, I specifically said that "I wouldn't recommend you do that, I have a feeling that other editors are going to take issue with your style of communication and editing" with regard to ANI. I listed it because it was available - not that I recommended it.--v/r - TP 17:10, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I was referring to you, and I understood you to say it was the proper forum. I understood your recommendation against my doing so to be based not on it being the wrong place, but because I would be unpopular there. And also because you did not wish me to pursue sanctions against Gamalael. Which, however, I will continue to pursue. Andyvphil (talk) 20:17, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Obsidi That link says "The community also has the power to remove administrator access from any contributor." and "Established processes for removal of administrator access include:" - Also Wikipedia:Requests_for_de-adminship#Current_methods_of_requesting_de-adminship says DR can remove the bit - So If the ANI had come back with a "remove-bit" consensus (And assuming that consensus was considered fair and large enough), its a bit (pun!) of an open question as to what would have happened. Gaijin42 (talk) 20:23, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I guess you could go to arbcom at that point to try to enforce the community consensus (and they would be more likely to remove an admin with community consensus behind it). But I mean as a matter of actual ability to do so, a community consensus couldn't remove the bit (I mean no one has the ability in the software to do so). --Obsidi (talk) 20:29, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

WP:BLP

Hi. I thought I should remind you that WP:BLP applies everywhere on the project, including this user talk page. I noticed some material on the page that contravened this policy and removed it. If you restore this material, or post any more material like this anywhere else at Wikipedia, I will block you. Given your history this will be a long block. Only go down this road if a long block is really what you want. Best wishes, --John (talk) 18:54, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@John: Please elaborate on what was said[64] that contravened BLP policy, per the policies on admin accountability quoted above. Since when can't one engage in an exchange of opinions on one's own talk page? Do I have to provided citations for assertions of fact there? What assertion of fact on my part do you feel needs such a citation? Andyvphil (talk) 21:14, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
See Beeblebrox's comments below. If you are having trouble comprehending our BLP policy it is well that you are no longer permitted to even discuss anything to do with living people. At this point you should think long and hard about your participation here. You indicate below that you are questioning whether you fit in here. I encourage you to continue with this self-examination. I would really like to see you in six months editing with a better appreciation of what you can and can't say about living people, and able to have your restriction lifted. The first step in that journey would be to realise that you have been way out of line in your recent behaviour, including the section I removed. The deleted material is still visible in article history. Why don't you look at it yourself and try to figure this out as an exercise in your development as a Wikipedian? The alternative I fear will be a long or indefinite block. You need to make a very conscious and thoughtful choice here about how you handle your restriction. Choose well. --John (talk) 21:35, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@John: I don't feel the need for any re-education. You are being called to account for your actions as an administrator in accord with the policy quoted so conveniently above. Please start by naming ONE statement of fact by me in the material you redacted that you feel is in doubt. If there are none, you can start by naming ONE opinion that I am not entitled to hold and express here. I'm trying to make it very simple for you to be accountable. Presumably you do not have GAmalel's excuses for melting down instead. Andyvphil (talk) 21:52, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Mmm. Perhaps that is the problem, that you lack awareness of how your behaviour comes over to others. This is a private website and you have no freedom of speech here. If you continue to misbehave you will be asked to leave. I'm off to bed now and I suggest, as before, that you spend some time in self-reflection. That way may lie enlightenment. Anger, argument and self-righteousness are what got you to where you are. Let go of them, would be my advice. Good luck. --John (talk) 21:57, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
"This is a private website and you have no freedom of speech here."
Do you mind if I quote you? That's juicy.
Accusing me of self-righteousness is, in this context, amusing. It's not as if I'm censoring you.
It is true I have no 1st Amendment right to say anything here. But if there's a community consensus against discussions such as I and Viriditas had (yes, I understood he was trolling for something similarly juicy from me) I must have missed its formation. Do you have a link? Andyvphil (talk) 22:10, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It certainly looks like that, doesn't it, but in all honesty, I wasn't. I really wanted to have a discussion about your contributions and how you felt you improved the Shooting of Michael Brown topic. However, you didn't reply to my inquiries. After I saw the ANI thread, I added my experience, which included mentioning our discussion. I'm sorry that you feel I was trolling or trying to entrap you. I wasn't, and that just isn't my style. You know, there's a real easy way for you out of this mess. If you are interested in the path, all you have to do is start making quality contributions. It's that simple. Stop attacking people and stop playing the victim. Viriditas (talk) 00:45, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, it certainly looks like that, doesn't it? I figured you were looking for material to use against me at AN/I, and you did, though it didn't amount to much. I figure that, most recently, penetrating the hagiographic obscuration of Tyson's UTA washout was a quality contribution. And I'm not playing the victim. I was the victim of Gamaliel's misbehavior, etc.
And I'm glad we had the conversation, even if we talked past each other. It game me the opportunity to organize my thoughts about Tyson's "apology"/apologia on paper, and was the occasion for John's censorship, which is a useful example of the sickness plaguing Wikipedia.Andyvphil (talk) 17:12, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

BLP Topic Ban

@Beeblebrox: Am I right to assume this appeal time limit is to the standard direct appeal (through the Wikipedia:Unblock Ticket Request System). That he can still appeal to the WP:Arbitration Committee/Ban Appeals Subcommittee (of which I know you are one of the five members) or to appeals to Jimbo? (I'm not saying that either of these will actually work, just that is still possible.) --Obsidi (talk) 19:43, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
WP:BASC does not hear appeals of topic bans, so that would be a no on that aspect. I don't believe UTRS does either, they review blocks, not community-based sanctions. Jimbo's talk page is apparently always an option for just about anyone, but the chance that he would unilaterally overturn a community sanction is practically zero. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:48, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) No, not at all. UTRS and BASC are for site bans. In fact, UTRS isn't even for site bans, it's only for blocks. The appeal options are 1) Beeblebrox himself, 2) AN/ANI thread, 3) An Arbcom case/clarification, 4) Jimbo.--v/r - TP 19:48, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I think it is important to note that any appeal to me would have to be based on the idea that I misinterpreted what the consensus was on these issues, and not the underlying dispute itself. I closed the discussion because once I read the whole thing it seemed abundantly clear what the consensus was. Although there was not total unanimity the vast majority of commenters expressed serious concerns about Andyvphil's editing of biographical topics, and supported some sort of sanction. The real message here is this:A topic ban is the community's way of letting someone know this is probably their last chance to change their behavior. Andyvphil is probably nearing the end of his rope here if he cannot reign in his attitude. The community did not see fit to issue a total siteban, so reform is still possible and the sanction could easily be lifted if he shows restraint int the coming months. If instead he should endlessly appeal the sanction and/or continue with his combative attitude then it will probably go the other way fairly quickly. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:58, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Beeblebrox Since the appeals process has been raised, just for clarification, this topic ban was done under the standard community authority, and not under WP:NEWBLPBAN DS correct? (As a DS ban would have a different set of appeals processes in place I believe) Gaijin42 (talk) 20:15, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
That's correct. Beeblebrox (talk) 20:22, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • (edit conflict)It should be noted that, though it's not a !vote, my unofficial "nose count" was only 23-11 in favor, with most of the opposers asking for diffs of the supposed clear "racism" alleged in Andyvphil's edits, but only being provided with diffs where he stated his view that the subject of that BLP had benefited from affirmative action. While the !vote is slightly more than 2-1 in favor, that's hardly an "abundantly clear" consensus, at least in my view, particularly given the weak (and almost wholly unsupported) accusations of racism that were being cavalierly bandied about regarding Avp's edits. LHMask me a question 20:24, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
"...that "affirmative action" had almost certainly been a consideration ..." I've been very careful about being precise in what I was saying in a hostile environment. Lets not stop now. (The opponents characterizing it, not so much. Maybe I should batch some up in an NPA action.) Andyvphil (talk) 21:04, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
At this point it doesn't matter (WP:DEADHORSE). --Obsidi (talk) 20:32, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The near-unanimity of the folks insisting that BLP reads, "Don't even think of inquiring into facts that might pee on the leg of any of the liberal icon statues in Wikipedia" is not in doubt. For, "last chance to change your behavior", read "last chance to conform your political attitudes, or accept that you are racist slime here on Wikipedia". There's something in the instructions for closing discussions about weighing arguments, but no one can be forced to do that when they don't want to. Andyvphil (talk) 20:49, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Woo! This place is getting more Stalinist all the time. I just noticed the section immediately above. Free speech? What free speech? Are you sure you want to be a member of this club? Andyvphil (talk) 21:17, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You may note that my closing contained no judgement whatsoever as to whether you are a closet racist or not. That's not really something that can be judged by consensus, only you actually know if you are or are not. What consensus can judge is the appropriateness of your edits, both in articles and on talk pages, and that is the issue this remedy seeks to deal with.

While I did read the entire conversation and did weigh arguments, if I go back now and "snout count" I get a result, judging by 'bolded statements, of 29 supporting some sort of sanction and 9 opposing (I note that some supporters favored a lesser sanction and some opposers self-identified their opposition as "weak". So it's closer to three to one in favor of some sort of sanction even if we disregard all the other conversation that did not use bolded votes.

In other words, it's not your opinions that are the problem, it is the way in which other users perceive you trying to slant content to agree with your point of view and your combative, seemingly intractable approach to discussing these issues with other editors. Beeblebrox (talk) 21:18, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"What consensus can judge is the appropriateness of your edits..."
The mob can reach a conclusion, such as "Inquiring into facts that might pee on the leg of Tyson's statue must be stopped because we don't like it." Calling that "judgement" traduces the word. That you chose to translate that conclusion into an indefinate block reflects badly on you. Andyvphil (talk) 21:34, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I've looked at your close, which includes "Gamaliel has acknowledged their error, and the consensus here seems to indicate that is a sufficient response".
Hey, what is it with this strange plural business? Is it the secret handshake of some some society you share with drmies?
Saying "Gamaliel has acknowledged his error" is false, both as regards his mischaracterization of me and my words ("repeatedly...blatantly racist"), and the impropriety of blocking me for calling him to account for his admin actions. Does your judgement ever come back from holiday, or is is gone for good? Andyvphil (talk) 22:27, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, no secret cabal here. If there had been, I would have suggested that Beeblebrox change "self-identified" to "qualified". Besides that, though, yeah, I think we're in agreement. It's called consensus. Correct me if I'm wrong, but your "strange plural" comment is in reference to "their error", a perfectly acceptable use of singular they. You are free, of course, to consider consensus as mob rule; that opinion is yours to have, but to me (us?) it comes across as sour grapes. Understandable, but not a very valid reason to question Beeblebrox's judgment, on vacation or otherwise. Drmies (talk) 22:56, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I see, you're both gender-inclusivity cranks. It's "perfectly acceptable" only in your small group, but has a signaling function for extreme leftism (I assume there are oddball exceptions). Good to know about Beeblebrox, and any future encounters with "them". Andyvphil (talk) 23:19, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I think Beeblebrox claims to be a "he", and I don't think he minds being referred to that way. That you think we're extreme leftists for not presuming someone's gender is the funniest thing I have heard all day, and for that I thank you. Drmies (talk) 23:55, 22 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I already knew about you. He's put his signalling on display. I don't need his MLA membership number to draw the right conclusions. You live a reality-free world where the existence of diversity goals and timetables tells you exactly nothing about the benefits, if any, for someone who can enable checking the right box, and it's racist to even consider the possibility of it being otherwise. I'm laughing too. Andyvphil (talk) 00:13, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Andy, I understand that you are upset. Generally nobody is pleased with being topic banned, so that's not surprising. However, if you continue to attack other users and hurl absolutely baseless, bizarre accusations around you are going to find yourself blocked, probably for a very long time. When one is getting very upset about matters on Wikipedia, the best course of action is to just walk away and do something else for a while. I would suggest you do yourself a favor and take a walk, watch some TV, or whatever you prefer to do to get your mind off of issues that are bothering you. Beeblebrox (talk) 00:42, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"Saying "Gamaliel has acknowledged his error" is false, both as regards his mischaracterization of me and my words ("repeatedly...blatantly racist"), and the impropriety of blocking me for calling him to account for his admin actions." Those are your words I'm talking about. If ignorance isn't involved, and you claim to have read the ANI, then what we have is indifference to the truth.
As I said in there somewhere, my first encounter with drmies was his coming to this page to declare that deleting a complaint from an "editor" about the indifference of Wikipedia to the truth was "not censorship", thereby proving the guy's point. I'll retract this observation if the the reason you used "they" to refer to Gamalael was a knowledge that he prefers it - that would be courtesy - but if you initiate this ridiculous practice on your own, then it is indeed diagnostic of your politics. I haven't seen your politics in action before this, but I have seen what drmies calls racism, and if you share the signalling there is every reason to believe that your neutrality on the issues presented is a pose. Andyvphil (talk) 02:30, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I don't much mind the baiting and demands that I recant. I'm contemptuous of it. I am anyway effectively lifetime banned from fixing the errors I run across when consulting Wikipedia, which has been my main interaction with it for some time (apart from simply consulting it).
I have never found AGF problematic with you, unlike with the likes of drmies, John and now, unfortunately Beeblebrox, despite our differences. I would therefor be interested in your comments on John's redaction from this page. Is this really the practice now? Andyvphil (talk)r ~

Arbitration enforcement request

Andyvphil, I see you've posted an arbitration enforcement request against Gamaliel at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Gamaliel. What on earth are you trying to achieve by doing that? Prioryman (talk) 07:28, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

According to you, it must be because I'm racist. Andyvphil (talk) 07:39, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I've removed your submission because whatever it was, it wasn't a request for arbitration enforcement. If you mean to initiate arbitration proceedings before the Committee, you can do so at WP:RFAR.  Sandstein  07:44, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, exactly. Andyvphil, the link you just posted on Gamaliel's talk page directs them to Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Gamaliel, which doesn't exist. If I were you I would think very hard before posting an arbitration case request because your own conduct is inevitably going to come under close scrutiny if you do. You're topic-banned now. I don't think it would be wise to risk being banned entirely, which is a definite possibility. Prioryman (talk) 07:48, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
By the way, I've removed your notification from Gamaliel's talk page as your original request has been declined and it didn't go anywhere anyway. If you do take the step of refiling it on RFAR then please feel free to revert my removal. Prioryman (talk) 07:54, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
AVP, you're fighting too many dragons at the same time. Gamaliel is not your main problem right now! - Wikidemon (talk) 08:06, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not "fighting dragons". I can't quite figure out why I ended up on the wrong page, but I'll put it on the right page tomorrow. Andyvphil (talk) 09:43, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Actually it looks like my error was simply filing at the bottom of the page[65] rather than the bottom of the right section. Is this wrong? Andyvphil (talk) 09:56, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Did it again, properly this time, I hope. Andyvphil (talk) 10:23, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You still need to include the confirmations that Gamaliel was informed about the ArbCom request. --Obsidi (talk) 15:28, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. It was done, but I neglected that in my location screwup. Andyvphil (talk)

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Request for Arbitration declined

This is a courtesy notice to inform you that a request for arbitration, which named you as a party, has been declined. Feel free to see the Arbitrators' opinions for potential suggestions on moving forward.

For the Arbitration Committee, Ks0stm (TCGE) 13:56, 29 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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SF edit-a-thons on March 7 and 8

ArtAndFeminism (3/7) and International Women's Day (3/8)!

Dear fellow Wikipedian,

In celebration of WikiWomen's History Month, the SF Bay Area Wikipedia community has two events in early March -- please consider attending!

First, we have an ArtAndFeminism edit-a-thon, which will take place at the Kadist Art Foundation from 12 noon to 6pm on Saturday, March 7. We'll be one of many sites worldwide participating in this edit-a-thon on March 7th. So join us as we help improve Wikipedia's coverage of women artists and their works!

Second, we will be celebrating International Women's Day with the International Women's Day edit-a-thon on Sunday, March 8 from 1pm to 5pm at the Wikimedia Foundation. Our editing focus will be on women, of course!

I hope to see you there! Rosiestep (talk) - via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:06, 20 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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MfD nomination of User:Andyvphil/Obama

User:Andyvphil/Obama, a page you substantially contributed to, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Andyvphil/Obama and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~). You are free to edit the content of User:Andyvphil/Obama during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. Gamaliel (talk) 19:45, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Hi,
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:31, 23 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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2016 Art And Feminism Wikipedia Editathon @ CCA

You are invited! - Saturday, March 5 - Wikipedia:Meetup/San Francisco/ArtandFeminism 2016
Arts+Feminism logo
Please join us at the California College of the Arts' Simpson Library on Saturday March 5, 2016,
for an event aimed at collaboratively expanding Wikipedia articles covering Art and Feminism, and the biographies of women artists!

--Circa73 (talk)

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Bay Area WikiSalon series kickoff, April 27

Please join us in San Francisco!
A Wikipedia panel discussion about journalism
Panel discussion at a recent Wikipedia & Journalism event.

The last Wednesday evening of every month, wiki enthusiasts in the San Francisco Bay Area will gather to collaborate, mingle, and learn about new projects and ideas. We have two brief presentations lined up for our kickoff event in downtown San Francisco:

  • The Nueva Upper School recently hosted the first ever high school Wikipedia edit-a-thon. We will hear what interests them about Wikipedia, what they have learned so far, and what they hope to achieve.
  • Photojournalist Kris Schreier Lyseggen, author of The Women of San Quentin: The Soul Murder of Transgender Women in Male Prisons, will tell us about her work and how she researched the topic.

We allow time for informal conversation and working on articles. Newcomers and experienced wiki users are encouraged to attend. We will have beverages and light snacks.

Please note: You must register here, and bring a photo ID that matches your registration name. The building policy is strict on this point.

For further details, see here: Wikipedia:Bay Area WikiSalon, April 2016

We hope to see you -- and until then, happy editing! - Pete, Ben & Wayne

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Invitation to the Bay Area WikiSalon series on May 25

Please join us in downtown San Francisco!
A Wikipedia panel discussion about journalism

The last Wednesday evening of every month, wiki enthusiasts gather at Bay Area WikiSalon to collaborate, mingle, and learn about new projects and ideas.

We allow time for informal conversation and working on articles. Newcomers and experienced wiki users are encouraged to attend. We will have beverages and light snacks.

Please note: You must register here, and bring a photo ID that matches your registration name. The building policy is strict on this point.

For further details, see: Wikipedia:Bay Area WikiSalon, May 2016


See you soon! Pete F, Ben Creasy, and Checkingfax via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 01:15, 9 May 2016 (UTC) | Subscribe/Unsubscribe to the SF Meetups notice.[reply]

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Invitation to the Bay Area WikiSalon series, Wednesday, June 29

Please join us in downtown San Francisco!
A Wikipedia panel discussion about journalism

The last Wednesday evening of every month, wiki enthusiasts gather at Bay Area WikiSalon to collaborate, mingle, and learn about new projects and ideas.

We make sure to allow time for informal conversation and working on articles. Newcomers and experienced wiki users are encouraged to attend. Free Wi-Fi is available so bring your editing devices. We will have beverages and light snacks. We will also have:

  • A brief report on Pride edit-a-thon recently held at the San Francisco Publice Library, coordinated by Merrilee:
    What topics might we cover in a follow up?
    Find out more about resources your public library provides to help with editing (hint, it's more than just books!)
    Special announcement (secret for now but come and find out more!)
  • Join in on an in person Wikidojo!
    Are you curious how your peers approach writing a Wikipedia article? This exercise, pioneered by Wikipedians Nikola Kalchev and Vassia Atanassova in 2015 and conducted in many places around the world, will help us all - from first-time wiki users to veteran Wikipedians - share ideas, while building an article together. If you have ideas (relating to Bay Area history, ideally) about a new article we could build (stubs and short existing articles are fine), please submit them ahead of time to coordinator Pete Forsyth. (User talk page or email is fine.)
    Announcements and impromptu topics are welcome, too!

Please note: You must register here, and bring a photo ID that matches your registration name. The building policy is strict.

For further details, see: Wikipedia:Bay Area WikiSalon, June 2016


See you soon! Pete F, Ben, Stephen and Checkingfax | (Subscribe or Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here)

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 10:07, 19 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

REMINDER/invitation to the Bay Area WikiSalon series, Wednesday, June 29 at 6 p.m.

Please join us in downtown San Francisco tonight!
A Wikipedia panel discussion about journalism

If you cannot join in person or want to view portions later:

We will have:

  • Light snacks, and time to mingle
  • A brief report on the Pride edit-a-thon recently held at the San Francisco Public Library, that was coordinated by Wiki editor Merrilee
  • A special announcement (secret for now but come and find out more!)
  • Join in on a brief in person Wikidojo!
  • Announcements and impromptu topics are welcome, too!

Please register at: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1cjLRrSTlEkGOPTQ-h6A0WvSFI4ZmIUl6jEHp_RYas-E/viewform and bring a photo ID that matches your registration name. The building policy is strict.

For further details, see: Bay Area WikiSalon, June 2016


See you tonight! Pete F, Ben, Stephen and MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:48, 29 June 2016 (UTC) | (Subscribe or Unsubscribe to this talk page notice)[reply]

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Late breaking invitation to the Bay Area WikiSalon series, July 27 (Wednesday) - change of venue - tonight

Please join us in the Mission at Noisebridge (one time change of venue)!
A Wikipedia panel discussion about journalism

We hope you can join us today, Wednesday, from 6 p.m. on, at our July Bay Area WikiSalon. This month only, we are going to be at Noisebridge, a hackerspace/makerspace 1.5 blocks from the 16th & Mission BART station (see the link for directions). Some of us will be working on the Wikipedia article on basic income. All info here. Some good news - we do not have to be as strict about advance RSVP at Noisebridge, so bring spontaneous guests! (Registering ahead of time is still helpful, as always, as it will help us plan ahead.)

Come and hang out, have some light snacks. Wi-Fi is available, so please bring your editing device if you plan to edit.

Also, Pete just published a writeup of the Wikidojo exercise we did last month. Your comments welcome, if he missed anything! http://wikistrategies.net/ghost-town-royals-wikidojo

The last Wednesday evening of every month, wiki enthusiasts gather at Bay Area WikiSalon to collaborate, mingle, and learn about new projects and ideas. Mark you calendars now.

We allow time for informal conversation and working on articles. Newcomers and experienced wiki users are encouraged to attend.


See you soon! Pete F, Ben Creasy, Stephen and Wayne | (Subscribe/Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here)

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:05, 27 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Invitation to the Bay Area WikiSalon series, Wednesday, August 31

Please join us in downtown San Francisco!
A Wikipedia panel discussion about journalism

Hi folks,

We would like to invite you to this month's Bay Area WikiSalon. The last Wednesday evening of every month, wiki enthusiasts gather to collaborate, mingle, and learn about new projects and ideas.

We make sure to allow time for informal conversation and working on articles. Newcomers and experienced wiki users are encouraged to attend. Free Wi-Fi is available so bring your editing devices. We will have beverages and light snacks. We will also have a brief presentation for your education and possible enjoyment:

  • Former EFF intern Marta Belcher will discuss crowdsourcing her Stanford Law School graduation speech using a wiki. The "WikiSpeech" was the subject of prominent national media attention in 2015, and more than half of her classmates contributed to writing and editing the commencement address via a wiki.

Please note: You should register here, and bring a photo ID that matches your registration name. The building policy is strict on the I.D. part. This also helps us figure out how much food and drink to bring in! Feel free to stop by even if only to say a quick hello, but you might have to give us a last minute call if you forget to RSVP. Also, don't be shy about hitting us up if you have thoughts on speakers or wiki-related activities.

For further details, see: Wikipedia:Bay Area WikiSalon, August 2016


See you soon! Pete F, Ben, Stephen and Checkingfax | (Subscribe or Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here)

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 21:05, 29 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Tonight: Live and archived links for Bay Area WikiSalon

Bay Area WikiSalon, Wednesday, August 31:

If you cannot join us in person tonight, we are streaming (and later archiving) the presentation by former EFF intern Marta Belcher. We expect her to be live starting between 6:30 or 6:45 p.m. PDT and talking and taking questions for about 30 minutes thereafter.

Here is the YouTube stream link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t8V79s2-og
Here is the link to join the Hangout on Air: https://hangouts.google.com/call/ezrol7dafjfwxfh2ilpkjyxoaue

You can search for it on the Commons and YouTube later too.

Wayne, Pete, Ben, and Stephen

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:50, 31 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Invitation to the Bay Area WikiSalon series, Wednesday, September 28

Please join us in downtown San Francisco!
A Wikipedia panel discussion about journalism

Hi folks,

We would like to invite you to this month's Bay Area WikiSalon. The last Wednesday evening of every month, Wikipedia and Wikimedia enthusiasts gather to collaborate, mingle, and learn about new projects and ideas.

We will have no formal agenda to allow people to freely share ideas and perhaps learn about Wikipedia through hands-on editing. Co-organizer Ben Creasy will be looking at election-related articles to enhance the information available in the upcoming November elections.

Official logo of Wiki Loves Monuments

Co-organizer Stephen LaPorte has suggested doing an upload-a-thon for Wiki Loves Monuments. Niki, the California coordinator for WLM will be in attendance. WLM is an annual event and the official dealine is Friday the 30th for submissions to count towards awards.

Or, you can grab a couch, a booth, or a stool and do your own thing.

Wikimedia community logo (public domain)

Please note: You should register here, and bring a photo ID that matches your registration name. The building policy is strict on the I.D. part. This also helps us figure out how much food and drink to bring in! Feel free to stop by even if only to say a quick hello, but you might have to give us a last minute call if you forget to RSVP. Also, don't be shy about hitting us up if you have thoughts on future speakers or wiki-related activities.

For further details, please see: Wikipedia:Bay Area WikiSalon, September 2016. Mark your calendars now for the 3rd Wednesday in October, the 26th, when we will have a brief presentation.


See you soon! Pete F, Ben, Stephen and Checkingfax | (Subscribe or Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here)

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 01:34, 24 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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You are invited to a Wednesday evening event in SF

Please join us in downtown San Francisco!
A Wikipedia panel discussion about journalism

Hi folks,

Please copy and share this on other talk pages. We would like to invite you to this month's Bay Area WikiSalon. The last Wednesday evening of every month, Wikipedia and Wikimedia enthusiasts gather at the Wikimedia Foundation lounge to collaborate, mingle, and learn about new projects and ideas.

We will have no meaty agenda this month, but we will allow a brief period for:

  • Open mic for anybody who attended WikiConference North America 2016 in San Diego last week and wants to share their takeaway
  • Question & answer
  • Open mic for announcements
  • Maybe a focus on some topical election article editing with Ben?

Or, you can grab a couch, a booth, a stool or counter and do your own thing.


Please note: You should register here, and bring a photo ID that matches your registration name. The building policy is strict on the I.D. part. This also helps us figure out how much food and drink to bring in! Feel free to stop by even if only to say a quick hello, but you might have to give us a last minute call if you forget to RSVP. Also, don't be shy about hitting us up if you have thoughts on future speakers or wiki-related activities.

For further details, please see: Wikipedia:Bay Area WikiSalon, October 2016.


PS: Mark your calendars ahead now for the 3rd Wednesday in November, the 30th (the week after Thanksgiving), at 6 p.m. when our WikiSalon will host a super awesome top secret mystery guest mingling in our midst. We will announce specifics at the upcoming WikiSalon.


See you soon! Pete F, Ben, Stephen, Jacob, and Checkingfax | (Subscribe or Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here)

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 08:51, 22 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost: 4 November 2016

ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open!

Hello, Andyvphil. Voting in the 2016 Arbitration Committee elections is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2016 election, please review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:08, 21 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost: 4 November 2016

Everybody is invited to the November 30 Bay Area WikiSalon

Please join us in downtown San Francisco!
A Wikipedia panel discussion about journalism

Details and RSVP here.


See you soon! Pete F, Ben Creasy, and Checkingfax | (Subscribe/Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here)

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:54, 29 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Bay Area WikiSalon series: Everybody is invited this Wednesday evening at 6

Please join us in downtown San Francisco!
A Wikipedia panel discussion about journalism

The last Wednesday evening of every month, wiki and open-source enthusiasts gather at Bay Area WikiSalon to collaborate, mingle, and learn about new projects and ideas.

Before and after the brief presentation we allow time for informal conversation and working on articles. Newcomers and experienced wiki users are encouraged to attend. Free Wi-Fi is available so bring your editing devices. We will have beverages and light snacks.


In addition, this month we will have:

  • a brief presentation from User:Cullen328 (Jim Heaphy) about the Wikipedia Teahouse
  • spontaneous lightning talks from the floor
  • community announcements from the floor

For details and to RSVP see: Wikipedia:Bay Area WikiSalon, December 2016


See you soon! Ben Creasy and Checkingfax | (Subscribe/Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here)

+++++
P.S. Any help spreading the word through social media or other avenues is most welcome! We plan to announce this on various sites and invite various groups; if you would like to join in, check our meta planning page, and please note any announcements you are sending out: meta:Monthly WikiSalon in San Francisco#Announcements and promotion

Please feel free to add to, refine, reorganize or edit the above linked page: it is a wiki!

We need more helpers and organizers, so if you see a need, please jump in, or talk to us about it! You can add your username to the meta page where appropriate, or create a new role!

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 21:44, 12 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Reminder invitation to the December Bay Area WikiSalon

Please join us in downtown San Francisco!
A Wikipedia panel discussion about journalism

Hi, everybody.

We are excited to remind you of the ninth in the Bay Area WikiSalon series that is coming up this Wednesday evening at 6 p.m.

  • Details (RSVP suggested) here (RSVP helps us know how much food and drink to bring in)

What is a WikiSalon? A monthly safe and inclusive meatspace event conducted in organized chaos and we all clean up the mess afterwards. Livestream links for the presentation are available during presentation months, and will be forthcoming for those of you that cannot attend. December is a presentation month.


Hope to see you there! Wayne (and Ben) - co-organizers
Any last minute questions or suggestions? Please ping or email Ben or me. | (Subscribe/Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here)

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 05:10, 20 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost: 22 December 2016

Archived link for December Bay Area WikiSalon

Hi, y'all. In case you missed it and want to watch the archive reel; the topic was The Wikipedia Teahouse and the presenter was well respected Wikimedian Jim Heaphy [[User:Cullen328]]

  • Archive link (also includes intro, announcements, and a lightning talk)
  • Details about Bay Area WikiSalon for December here

The full title of Jim's presentation was: Welcoming and Helping New Editors: A Month at the Wikipedia Teahouse: an overview of the Teahouse and an analysis of over 300 Teahouse conversations during the month of August, 2016

Jim gave a longer version of this presentation in October at WikiConference North America 2016 in San Diego, California.


Cheers! Co-organizer Checkingfax - and co-organizer Ben Creasy | (Subscribe/Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here)


PS: Mark your calendars now for Sunday, January 15 at 2 p.m. which will be Wikipedia's 16th Birthday party hosted by Bay Area WikiSalon! Details to follow soon. If you want to help plan it, get in touch with us ASAP!

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 01:43, 23 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You are invited to a birthday bash to Celebrate Wikipedia's 16th Birthday!

Please join us in downtown San Francisco!
Cut the cake

Wikipedia Day 16 SF is a fun Birthday bash and edit-a-thon on Sunday, January 15, 2017, hosted by Bay Area WikiSalon at the Wikimedia Foundation's Chip Deubner Lounge in the South of Market Street business district.

Wikimedia Community logo

For details and to RSVP, please see: Wikipedia:Meetup/SF/Wikipedia Day 2017

The San Francisco gathering is one of a number of Wikipedia Day celebrations worldwide.


See you soon! Ben Creasy, Checkingfax and Slaporte | (Subscribe/Unsubscribe to this notice)


PS: We need volunteers to help make this a fun and worthwhile event. Please add your name to the Project page, and what you can offer. It is a wiki, so please make direct edits to the page.

Bay Area WikiSalon usually meets the last Wednesday evening of every month as an inclusive and safe place to collaborate, mingle, munch and learn about new projects and ideas.

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 07:52, 8 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Reminder invitation to the Wikipedia Day 16 birthday bash & edit-a-thon

Please join us in downtown San Francisco!
Cut the cake

Wikipedia Day 16 SF is a fun Birthday bash and edit-a-thon on Sunday, January 15, 2017, hosted by Bay Area WikiSalon at the Wikimedia Foundation's Chip Deubner Lounge in the South of Market Street business district and everybody is invited!

Wikimedia Community logo
Details and RSVP here

See you Sunday! Ben Creasy, Checkingfax and Slaporte


PS: We still need more volunteers to help make this a fun and worthwhile event. Please add what you can offer and your name to the Project page or Talk about it. It is a wiki, so please make direct edits to the Project page. The event is already growing due to volunteers that have stepped up so far.


Bay Area WikiSalon meets one evening of every month as an inclusive and safe place to collaborate, mingle, munch or learn about new projects and ideas.

Note: the previous invitation had a bum wikilink. Sorry! | (Subscribe/Unsubscribe to this notice) | MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 06:43, 13 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost: 17 January 2017

The Signpost: 6 February 2017

Bay Area WikiSalon invitation for February 22

Please join us in downtown San Francisco!
A Wikipedia panel discussion about journalism

The last Wednesday evening of every month, wiki enthusiasts gather at Bay Area WikiSalon to collaborate, mingle, and learn about new projects and ideas.

We allow time for informal conversation and working on articles. Newcomers and experienced wiki users are encouraged to attend. Free Wi-Fi is available so bring your editing devices. We will have beverages (including beer and wine) plus light snacks.


Please note: You should RSVP here, and bring a photo ID that matches your registration name. This also helps us figure out how much food and drink to bring in.


For further details, see: Wikipedia:Bay Area WikiSalon, February 2017


See you soon! Ben Creasy and Wayne | (Subscribe/Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here) | MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 06:47, 15 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Bay Area WikiSalon February reminder

Please join us in downtown San Francisco!
A Wikipedia panel discussion about journalism

Wednesday, February 22, 2017 at 6 p.m.


For details and to RSVP: Wikipedia:Bay Area WikiSalon, February 2017


See you soon! Ben Creasy and Wayne (co-coordinators) | (Subscribe/Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here) | MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 02:58, 21 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost: 27 February 2017

Your invitation: Bay Area WikiSalon series at Noisebridge

Please join us in San Francisco!
A Wikipedia panel discussion about journalism

The last Wednesday evening of every month, wiki enthusiasts gather at Bay Area WikiSalon to collaborate, mingle, and learn about new projects and ideas. This month we are meeting at Noisebridge makerspace/hackerspace in the Mission near 16th Street BART (temporary change of venue). The good news is this means that you can bring spontaneous guests if you forget to RSVP!

We allow time for informal conversation and working on articles. Newcomers and experienced wiki users are encouraged to attend. Free Wi-Fi is available so bring your editing devices. We will have beverages (including beer and wine) plus light snacks.


If possible, please RSVP as it helps us figure out how much food and drink to bring in. For further details and to RSVP, please see: Wikipedia:Bay Area WikiSalon, March 2017


See you soon! Co-coordinators Ben Creasy and Wayne
(Subscribe/Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here) | MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 02:06, 23 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Reminder: Tonight is Bay Area WikiSalon at Noisebridge

Please join us in San Francisco!
A Wikipedia panel discussion about journalism

Details and to RSVP: Wikipedia:Bay Area WikiSalon, March 2017 (optional, but helpful for food and special needs accommodations)

We are meeting at Noisebridge makerspace/hackerspace (temporary venue change) near 16th ST BART in SF.


See you soon! Co-coordinators Ben Creasy and Wayne
(Subscribe/Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here) | MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:52, 29 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Wednesday night you are invited! Bay Area WikiSalon

Please join us in downtown San Francisco!
A Wikipedia panel discussion about journalism

The last Wednesday evening of every month, wiki enthusiasts gather for the Bay Area WikiSalon series to collaborate, mingle, and learn about new projects and ideas.

We allow time for informal conversation and working on articles. Newcomers and experienced wiki users are encouraged to attend. Free Wi-Fi is available so bring your editing devices. We will have beverages (including beer and wine) plus light snacks. We will have some announcements and lightning talks from the floor, and a breakout session. This is our one year anniversary, so there will be cake!


Please RSVP here, and bring a photo ID that matches your registration name. This also helps us figure out how much food and drink to bring in.


See you soon! Ben Creasy and Wayne
(Subscribe/Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here) | MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 06:19, 26 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Everybody is invited to the May 31 Bay Area WikiSalon series!

Please join us in downtown San Francisco!
A Wikipedia panel discussion about journalism

The last Wednesday evening of every month, wiki enthusiasts gather at Bay Area WikiSalon to collaborate, mingle, and learn about new projects and ideas. This month we are taking it on the road to Noisebridge makerspace/hackerspace!

We allow time for informal conversation and working on articles. Newcomers and experienced wiki users are encouraged to attend. Free Wi-Fi is available so bring your editing devices. We will have beverages (including beer and wine) plus light snacks. There will be periodic guided tours of Noisebridge. You can stay late, on your own! YeeHaw!


For details and to RSVP, see: Wikipedia:Bay Area WikiSalon, May 2017


See you soon! Ben Creasy and Wayne
(Subscribe/Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here) | MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 06:07, 24 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost: 9 June 2017

The Signpost: 23 June 2017

The Bay Area WikiSalon is an unSalon this month!

Please stay where you are for an unSalon!
A Wikipedia panel discussion about journalism

We are taking July off! Please gather your thoughts for changes that you would like to see in the next 10 months and present them at our July 26 WikiSalon.

Ordinarily, the last Wednesday evening of every month, wiki enthusiasts gather at the Bay Area WikiSalon series to collaborate, mingle, and learn about new projects and ideas.

We normally allow time for informal conversation and working on articles. Newcomers and experienced wiki users are encouraged to attend.


Mark your calendars now for Wednesday, July 26 at 6 p.m.! The venue will be the Noisebridge hackerspace/makerspace on Mission Street in San Francisco.


Sincerely, Ben Creasy and Wayne | (Subscribe/Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here) | MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 04:44, 28 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The Black Woman is God Edit-a-Thon in San Francisco, July 22

You're invited to The Black Woman is God Edit-a-Thon at SOMArts in San Francisco on Saturday July 22, 1-4 pm. It'll be at 934 Brannan Street (between 8th & 9th). Everyone is welcome to join this editing event, held in conjunction with The Black Woman is God exhibition to raise the online visibility of Black women artists and challenge the gaps in art history that erase or minimize Black women’s contributions as artists, activists and social change-makers. (Message requested by Dreamyshade and delivered on 14:23, 9 July 2017 (UTC). You can subscribe/unsubscribe to San Francisco event talk page notices here.)[reply]

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What is Talk Page Theatre? Come find out!

Please join us in downtown San Francisco!
Classic theatre meme

Come find out what "Talk Page Theatre" is all about! The last Wednesday evening of every other month, wiki enthusiasts gather at Bay Area WikiSalon to collaborate, mingle, and learn about new projects and ideas.


We allow time for informal conversation and working on articles. Newcomers and experienced wiki users are encouraged to attend. Free Wi-Fi is available so bring your editing devices. We will have beverages (including beer and wine) plus light snacks. We will be at the NEW Wikimedia Foundation offices! w00t!!!


Please note: You should RSVP here, and bring a photo ID that matches your registration name. This also helps us figure out how much food and drink to bring in.


For further details, see: Wikipedia:Bay Area WikiSalon, November 2017


See you soon! Ben Creasy, Nikikana, and Wayne | ( Subscribe/Unsubscribe to this talk page notice ) | MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 09:30, 14 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost: 24 November 2017

ArbCom 2017 election voter message

Hello, Andyvphil. Voting in the 2017 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 10 December. All users who registered an account before Saturday, 28 October 2017, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Wednesday, 1 November 2017 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2017 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:42, 3 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost: 18 December 2017

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The Signpost: 20 February 2018

SFMOMA Edit-a-Thon in San Francisco, March 8

You're invited to an Art+Feminism Edit-a-Thon at SFMOMA in San Francisco on Thursday March 8, 5-9 pm. It'll be at 151 Third Street, 2nd floor, free to the public. Everyone is welcome to participate in an evening of communal updating of Wikipedia entries on subjects related to gender, art, and feminism. (This message is from User:Dreamyshade. You can subscribe/unsubscribe to San Francisco event talk page notices here.)
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 12:58, 4 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Signpost issue 4 – 29 March 2018

The Signpost: 26 April 2018

Bay Area WikiSalon invitation!

Please join us in downtown San Francisco!
A Wikipedia panel discussion about journalism

Periodically, on the last Wednesday evening of the month, wiki enthusiasts gather at Bay Area WikiSalon to munch, mingle, and learn about new projects and ideas.

We allow time for announcements, informal conversation and working on articles. Newcomers and experienced wiki users are encouraged to attend. Bring a friend! Free Wi-Fi is available so bring your editing devices. This months focus is images!

We will have beverages (including beer and wine) plus light snacks (maybe pizza too!).


For further details and to RSVP, please see: Wikipedia:Bay Area WikiSalon, May 2018 (note: we are meeting at the new WMF HQ at 120 Kearny Street!)

See you soon! Ben Creasy, Nikikana, Stephen, and Wayne | (Subscribe/Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here) | MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 19:22, 21 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost: 24 May 2018

The Signpost: 24 May 2018

UPDATE! Bay Area WikiSalon moved to June 6!

Please join us in downtown San Francisco!
A Wikipedia panel discussion about journalism

Our apologies, but we are rescheduling to Wednesday, June 6 at 6:00 p.m. due to a WMF host scheduling conflict.


For further details and to RSVP, please see: Wikipedia:Bay Area WikiSalon, June 2018 (note: we are meeting at the new WMF HQ at 120 Kearny Street!)

See you soon! Niki, Ben, Stephen, and Wayne | (Subscribe/Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here) | MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 03:38, 25 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

REMINDER: Bay Area WikiSalon is Wednesday, June 6

Please join us in downtown San Francisco!
Wikimedia community logo
Leila (WMF) shares

When: Wednesday, June 6 at 6:00 p.m.


For details and to RSVP, please see: Wikipedia:Bay Area WikiSalon, June 2018 (note: we are meeting at the new WMF HQ at 120 Kearny Street!)

See you soon! Niki, Lodewijk, Ben, Stephen, and Wayne | (Subscribe/Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here) | MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:41, 5 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost: 29 June 2018

Bay Area WikiSalon invitation for July 25!

Please join us in downtown San Francisco!
Wikimedia Community logo
A Wikipedia panel discussion about journalism

Periodically, on the last Wednesday evening of the month, wiki enthusiasts gather at the Bay Area WikiSalon series to munch, mingle, and learn about new projects and ideas.

We allow time for announcements, informal conversation and working on articles. Newcomers and experienced wiki users are encouraged to attend. Bring a friend! Kid/family friendly. Free Wi-Fi is available so bring your editing devices. This months focus is reliable sources!

We will have beverages (including beer and wine) plus light snacks (maybe pizza too!).


For further details and to RSVP, please see: Wikipedia:Bay Area WikiSalon, July 2018 (note: we are meeting at the new WMF HQ at 120 Kearny Street!)

See you soon! Avik (User:Quantumavik), Lodewijk (User:Effeietsanders), Ben Creasy (User:Ben Creasy), Stephen (User:Slaporte), and Wayne (User:Checkingfax)
(Subscribe/Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here) | MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:14, 19 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost: 31 July 2018

August 2018

Warning icon Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to use talk pages for inappropriate discussion, as you did at Oradour-sur-Glane massacre, you may be blocked from editing. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:42, 12 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost: 30 August 2018

Bay Area WikiSalon invitation for September 26!

Please join us in downtown San Francisco!
Wikimedia Community logo
WikiSalon attendees

Periodically, on the last Wednesday evening of the month, wiki enthusiasts gather at the Bay Area WikiSalon series to munch, mingle, and learn about new projects and ideas.

We allow time for announcements, informal conversation and working on articles. Newcomers and experienced wiki users are encouraged to attend. Bring a friend! Kid/family friendly. Free Wi-Fi is available so bring your editing devices. This months' focus is Did you know ... ?

We will have beverages (including beer and wine) plus light snacks (maybe pizza too!).


Details and RSVP here (note: we are meeting at the new WMF HQ at 120 Kearny Street!)

See you soon! Avik (User:Quantumavik), Lodewijk (User:Effeietsanders), Ben Creasy (User:Ben Creasy), Stephen (User:Slaporte), and Wayne (User:Checkingfax)
(Subscribe/Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here) | MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 02:45, 18 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Last call for RSVPs for Wednesday evening

Please join us in downtown San Francisco!
Wikimedia Community logo
WikiSalon attendees

Hey, folks.​ Reminder:​ Wednesday evening ​at 6 ​is the Bay Area WikiSalon series​.​


Details and RSVP here (note: we are meeting at the new WMF HQ at 120 Kearny Street!)

See you soon! Avik (User:Quantumavik), Lodewijk (User:Effeietsanders), Ben Creasy (User:Ben Creasy), Stephen (User:Slaporte), and Wayne (User:Checkingfax)
(Subscribe/Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here) | MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 06:31, 26 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost: 1 October 2018

The Signpost: 28 October 2018

ArbCom 2018 election voter message

Hello, Andyvphil. Voting in the 2018 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 2 December. All users who registered an account before Sunday, 28 October 2018, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Thursday, 1 November 2018 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2018 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:42, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

ArbCom 2018 election voter message

Hello, Andyvphil. Voting in the 2018 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 3 December. All users who registered an account before Sunday, 28 October 2018, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Thursday, 1 November 2018 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2018 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:42, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost: 1 December 2018

The Signpost: 24 December 2018

You are cordially invited to Stanford University to celebrate Wikipedia's birthday

Join us in celebrating Wikipedia's 18th birthday at Stanford University!
Wikimedia Community logo
I am delighted to invite you to the 2019 Wikipedia Day party at Stanford, which will be held on Tuesday, January 15, 2019, at 5:00-8:30pm.

There will be pizza, cake, and refreshments; both newcomers and experienced Wikimedians are welcome! We will have a beginner track with tutorials, and an advanced track with presentations, lightning talks, and tips and tricks. Admission is free, and you do NOT have to be a Stanford University student to attend.

Details and RSVP here • register here

See you soon! All the best, Kevin (aka L235 · t · c)
(Subscribe/Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here) | MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:40, 5 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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The June 2019 Signpost is out!

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The Signpost: 27 January 2020

You are cordially invited to the SPIE Photonics West edit-a-thon on 02.02.2020

Join us for the SPIE Photonics West edit-a-thon this Sunday, 02.02.2020!
Wikimedia Community logo
I am delighted to invite you to the SPIE Photonics West 2020 edit-a-thon, at Park Central Hotel (Franciscan I, 3rd Level / 50 Third Street / San Francisco, California), on Sunday, February 2, 2020, at 5:00-7:00pm.

Newcomers and experienced Wikimedians are welcome to participate alongside SPIE conference attendees. Admission is free. Training will be provided.

Details and sign-in here

See you soon! All the best, --Rosiestep (talk) 06:59, 31 January 2020 (UTC) via MassMessaging[reply]

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ArbCom 2021 Elections voter message

Hello! Voting in the 2021 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 6 December 2021. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2021 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:13, 23 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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Invitation to Local Wikimania Event in San Francisco this Friday

Hi!

Wikimania is happening and hopefully you're enjoying the sessions. While it's fairly last minute, you're warmly invited to participate in the local Wikimania-themed meetup in the Wikimedia Foundation office this Friday (tomorrow!). You will have to register in advance, but we would love to see more people from the WikiSalon community participate! For more information and registration, please check out meta:Wikimania 2022/San Francisco Meetup.

The event will involve hacking, teaching, learning, and celebrating and we'll have snacks. We will have the opportunity to watch live sessions at Wikimania together in the afternoon. The rest of the day we'll have opportunity to participate in the hackathon, and we may have some on-demand workshops/learning sessions.

In case we run out of space, it's first-come-first-serve so let us know soon! Hope to see you there.

(Subscribe/Unsubscribe to this talk page notice here)

On behalf of the Bay Area Wiki Salon team and Bittakea, Effeietsanders

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Hello! Voting in the 2023 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 11 December 2023. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2023 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:26, 28 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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