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February 2

Eileens' Tacky Glue - in UK and Australia.

My g/f has a business making small plywood building models (http://renm.us) - and we recommend that our USA customers glue them together with a white wood glue called "Eileen's Tacky Glue" - which comes in a gold bottle and is on sale just about everywhere (eg Walmart, HobbyLobby, etc). I'm writing the instructions for assembling her models and because she makes big sales in the UK and Australia, I'm wondering what to recommend to her customers in those places.

The critical attributes of this stuff is that it's fairly sticky when fresh from the bottle but has a long working time - and most importantly, it dries completely transparent.

Could anyone from Europe/UK and Australia (and other countries too if you can) suggest whether Eileens' is commonly available in stores there - or what a decent local alternative might be?

TIA. SteveBaker (talk) 03:05, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

We have a selection of PVA glues available in supermarkets and hardware stores in the UK, but I haven't seen Eileen's. It might be available in craft shops. Eileen's seems to be more tacky than the average PVA. Perhaps someone knows a craft equivalent. Dbfirs 08:24, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

You can get Aleene's® Original Tacky Glue in the U.S. in a gold bottle (check spelling). Also Elmer's Craft Bond seems to be similar but I haven't used that one myself - is it available overseas? Rmhermen (talk) 16:24, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

Aleene's glue does appear to be available in the UK (e.g. here) but it wouldn't be recognised as describing a particular type of glue. The only immediately recognisable ones I can think of are Pritt Stick, UHU and Copydex, but I don't think any of these match what you're looking for. The best bet would probably to specify using 'tacky, clear PVA glue', and leave your customers to choose the brand they prefer. You can search on the Hobbycraft website (the first link I gave) to see the sorts of things that are available. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 18:01, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

eye patch

in making of an eye patch what material is used thanks billy — Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.2.126.176 (talk) 06:46, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

An eye patch can be made of many materials, it just needs to block light and not cause any other problems. Cheap, disposable ones can be paper, with others made of cloth. In either case, an elastic cord is needed to hold it on the head. There also seems to be a version held on with adhesive, which is more like a Band-Aid/plaster. StuRat (talk) 06:53, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

If it is for a costume, black felt is usually used. See these instructions or google "how to make an eye patch" for other suggestions. μηδείς (talk) 18:46, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

The eye patch store[1] mentions ultrasuede and leather as a materials for an eye patch. Vinyl is mentioned in this search. -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 12:06, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

Sony TV selling stores in Doha with estimated price

Hi, I am trying to search the website of the Sony TV selling stores in Doha with estimated prizes. Tried Sony Doha website but they don't show the prize. Thank you in advance.Nirajrm (talk) 06:55, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

I don't understand. Can you clarify your question ? StuRat (talk) 06:57, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

I want to buy the Sony LED television from Doha but fail to find the electronic stores selling TV and displaying the prizes on their website. Can you suggest a store website?Nirajrm (talk) 06:59, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

The confusing part is your use of the word "prize". Is there some type of contest where they give away something for free ? Or did you mean to say "item" instead of "prize" ? In any case, there appears to be a Sony showroom here: [2]. StuRat (talk) 07:07, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

Stu, are you deliberately not understanding, or are you actually missing the obvious miss-spelling price->prize? Assuming that, I hope you can agree that all of Nirajrm's entries make perfect sense. The difference between the voiced and unvoiced is far from universal, so for many ESL speakers, those words are complete homophones, even though they're not in most English dialects./81.170.148.21 (talk) 12:27, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

You're right, that must be what they meant. I didn't see it, since the two sound very different to me, making a misspelling unlikely for me, and the OP repeated the word, making a typo unlikely. StuRat (talk) 16:46, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

Thank you StuRat but I want to do online shopping of a Sony TV in Doha. Sorry for the confusion. I mean cost of the TV.Nirajrm (talk) 07:10, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

I am interested in online shopping of the Sony LED TV in Doha. So, please suggest me the website for it. I tried Google but so far not successful. Nirajrm (talk) 07:14, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

I'm having the same problem. It's possible they aren't allowed to sell TVs online in Qatar. Some nations require a local partner. In this case, the local partner would sell the Sony TVs in it's showrooms. 51 East seems to be a local partner in Qatar: http://www.51east.com.qa/. (If you pick "Haute Electronics" and then "TV", they list some Sony TVs, but no prices are shown.) StuRat (talk) 07:47, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

Note that you don't need to actually sell online to display prices. It isn't uncommon for manufacturers to list prices even though they don't sell products direct to the consumer or don't sell online. Some retailers do so too. There may be a small number of jurisdictions where this is illegal, but I doubt it's common. However the practice of selling online and listing prices varies significantly from country to country depending on how common it is etc. Although I'm somewhat confused whether the OP wants a store selling online or simply wants to a list of prices online as they've mentioned both. Nil Einne (talk) 16:38, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

Listing prices online where you don't sell online is problematic, as each retailer will sell for different prices, and, if they sell for more than the list price, this will let everyone know they are being ripped off there. They typically either don't list prices online, in this case, or list an absurdly high manufacturer's suggested retail price, so as to not make their retailers look bad. Of course, such a MSRP is of little practical value, as the amount they pad the price is variable, making comparisons between brands useless. StuRat (talk) 16:51, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

I can't say how things work in the US, but I'd think you'd find in many places, major manufacturer online stores when they do exist sell their consumer electronic products like TVs at MSRPs (or prices close to it) anyway. Yes the prices are absurb but the OP didn't give any indication they cared. Similarly, in many countries, even if online non manufacturer retails stores do exist, for big ticket consumer electronic items the price you'll pay online is often a lot more then you can expect to pay in store (barring the occasional special) since it's expected you will haggle on the price and the online store simply lists the retail price which few people pay (one of the reasons why online stores aren't that successful). The prices may not be quite as high as MSRPs but getting there. I thought of mentioning all this during my initial reply but decided it's the OP choice and they hopefully know more about the Dubai marketplace then you and me. I'd note the OP can no indication they cared about anyone but Sony (although comparing even same manufacturer MSRPs doesn't always work very well.)Nil Einne (talk) 05:40, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

Online game map editor

Hi, I am looking to find a free to use online games map editor to keep track of enemy locations. It is to be used alongside a browser-based online game. The locations go from 0,0 to 999,999. It is important I am able to edit the locations by inputting coords directly, ie 234,567. Thanks guys — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.148.8.63 (talk) 13:15, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

Do you want it to provide graphic maps for the players to view ? StuRat (talk) 16:52, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

No, just a visual reference for me to keep track of enemy coords. Thx — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.148.8.63 (talk) 18:20, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

So, would you have a top view pic of rooms, etc., then enter enemy coords, and have it create a map with dots added to the pic at each of those coords ? And do you also need the ability to move the enemies on the map, once placed, or would you generate a new map from scratch and re-enter them all ?

Or perhaps you just want it to list a table with the coords for each enemy ? If that's all you want, I could write that for you myself. StuRat (talk) 06:14, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

I would think the second option is closer to what I had in mind. At the moment, I am keeping tabs of locations by hand and it gets really messy :) Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.148.8.63 (talk) 09:58, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

OK, would you like me to whip up a program for you ? This does mean you'd have to trust me enough to give me your email address (you could tell me on my talk page) and then run the executable I send you. StuRat (talk) 16:57, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

(I've now sent the program I wrote.) StuRat (talk) 22:20, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

How about a 1000*1000 bitmap image. Set the colour of a pixel depending upon what is at that coordinate. I would use PSP3 (An ancient program, but it works a treat). -- SGBailey (talk) 17:30, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Mailing the Queen

I love writing letters, and just got to know that the Queen (of England :P ) will be participating in InCoWriMo. I’d love to send her a letter, but was wondering how to go about it. For starters, how do you address the queen in a letter. Keep in mind that it’s not official stuff, it’s meant to be casual. Do I still write “Your Majesty”? Or do I begin with “Dear Elizabeth”? =P Also, I’m from India, and not extremely familiar with British etiquette. What do I write about? Things I would normally write about to any old penpal I usually correspond with? Any pointers would be much appreciated. Many thanks in advance. 101.60.33.39 (talk) 17:54, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

We have an article on everything: Forms of address#Royalty. So you would write "Your Majesty" instead of "Dear..." and I'd suggest you'd congratulate her on recently celebrating her Diamond Jubilee, and maybe you'd also like to ask her whether she plans to visit India. Unfortunately our article does not inform us how to close the letter - maybe "Yours faithfully". --TammyMoet (talk) 18:07, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

(ec) According to the royal website at http://www.royal.gov.uk/HMTheQueen/ContactTheQueen/Overview.aspx, "You should feel free to write in whatever sytle you feel comfortable" RudolfRed (talk) 18:10, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

But make sure you don't address the letter to the "Queen of England". That would be as anachronistic as sending a letter to the Viceroy of India. You could if you like address it to her as Queen of Jamaica, or Queen of Papua New Guinea, or Queen of Tuvalu or 13 other choices - all perfectly legitimate current titles and all more correct than "Queen of England". But I suppose the default crown she is assumed to wear is that of the United Kingdom. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 20:24, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

Further to the information above, the envelope should be addressed thus: (ref 'How to contact the Queen')

HM The Queen

Buckingham Palace

London SW1A 1AA

UNITED KINGDOM

For a formal letter, you should begin the letter with:

Madam,

and end with:

I have the honour to be, Madam, Your Majesty's humble and obedient servant, <your name>

In the body of the letter you should be brief, but courteous. The Queen receives very many letters, so you need to explain what you are writing about in as short a time as possible. I personally would not expect to write to the Queen as if to a friend or pen pal, but to write something interesting and meaningful. I believe that Her Majesty has a strong personal interest in India, so you may wish to tell her about your life in your country, but also to ask her for her thoughts on the future.

Do not be disappointed if you receive a reply from an employee of the Queen's household: although the Queen receives, and reads, many letters each day, she may not have the opportunity to reply to each one personally. However, her aides do make sure that her views are represented in their replies, and that she is informed of the contents of interesting correspondence. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 00:27, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

Bearing in mind the OP didn't give any indication they were a citizen of any member of the commonwealth realm, is it really necessary or expected that the OP will call themselves the queen's humble and obedient servant? Nil Einne (talk) 05:29, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

Actually the site continues This traditional approach is by no means obligatory. You should feel free to write in whatever style you feel comfortable. Also I think this form dates to a time when people would close letters with y'r obedient servant, Benjamin Franklin even when the letter was addressed to someone the writer had no intention of either serving or obeying. It reminds me a bit of the letter that Caryl Chessman reported receiving from the warden of San Quentin, which if memory serves went something like: Dear Sir. Today I received notice that an execution date has been fixed in your case. Very truly yours, H. Teets, Warden. --Trovatore (talk) 08:10, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

How awful. Common etiquette demands the use of "yours faithfully" when signing a letter commencing "Dear sir".[3] Alansplodge (talk) 22:16, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

It's similar to the old fashioned way of greeting someone for the first time by saying you are "at your service". If doesn't mean you are actually going to bring them their dinner, it's just courtesy. --Tango (talk) 01:48, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

But why do you believe its a courtesy normal for those of who are not citizens of commonwealth realm countries? Trovatore's suggestion is a possibly, but you don't seem to have given anything to suggest it is. I don't think the queen realisticly expects citizens of the commonwealth realm to be humble and obedient servants either but it's a courtesy understandable there. Note that the ref used doesn't every specify the country, so it's unclear they were directing it at people outside the UK, let alone in non Commonwealth realm countries. Nil Einne (talk) 18:47, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Looking a bit, I found [4] where the phrase was used. Also [5], [6] and [7] although not directed at royalty but are directed at people from different countries if I understand them correctly and do use similar phrasing. BTW, some more traditional royalists suggest British and possibly all Commonwealth realm countries citizens (i.e. anyone who can be regarded as the Queen's subjects) should write subject rather then servant. Nil Einne (talk) 19:15, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

When mailing the Queen, does the stamp go on her bum ? StuRat (talk) 06:08, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

No, one inch from her upper and right corner, use a ruler. μηδείς (talk) 21:22, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

February 3

Editing image of a world map?

In the Amazing Race articles on each season, there would be a map showing the places where the race will be set in, e.g. here. I looked up the blank map and got the image file. So how can I edit (and what do I use) to edit the image to look something like this (e.g. arrows pointing to different places on the world map with a dot showing the exact location and a blue background on the country of which the dot is placed on)? Thanks Koopatrev (talk) 05:44, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

That rather looks like it was done with Microsoft Paint, using the fill tool to set the color of selected nations to blue, the curve tool to draw the connections, etc. Note that this is a rather crude way to do it, as the routes should properly be great circle routes projected onto the plane of the map. StuRat (talk) 06:05, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

Making things like diagrams (for Wikipedia) using a paint program is a really bad idea. It would be better to use a vector art program such as Inkscape or Adobe Illustrator which produce resolution-independent pictures that are much easier for other people to improve, re-use and add to. Is there an SVG (Scaleable Vector Graphics) version of that map someplace? Wikicommons has all sorts of maps in SVG format to use as a starting point. SteveBaker (talk) 14:27, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Tic (card game)

I've been looking through card games on Wikipedia and tried searching for this game but found nothing. I also searched the web and only found a few questions about it and someone describing how to play it. I would like if someone could help add this card game to Wikipedia. I could not find any sources for it. I did not make this game - someone taught it to me, and someone had taught it to them. Not sure if this game has any other names.

Found an explanation of the game here: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090705133126AAj9b4k

Here is their explanation of it:

Tic is really fun! Any number of people can play, just add another deck of cards as needed. It does get kinda slow with huge amounts though. Generally you use 2 decks for 3-6 players. Leave the jokers in the deck. You play in rounds, the first round everyone gets 3 cards. The dealer turns over the top card. The person to the left of the dealer can either pick up that card or draw a different one, then discard one, always keeping 3 cards in their hand. The object of the game is to get the cards in your hand into sets, either triples of the same card, or a suited run of three cards. This is the fun part: 3s are wild, and jokers are wild. After someone gets a set of 3, they lay down their set and call "tic". THEN everyone else gets one last chance to play, either taking a card off the top of the discard or from the deck and then discarding. If they get a set of cards, those cards DO NOT count against them. If you have cards in your hand not in a set after your turn, you add up all the points of the cards. Number cards are the same points as on the card, face cards are all worth 10 points, Aces are worth 15, and wilds are 25. So if you can't use your wild get rid of it! When everyone has discarded and added up their points, the round is over. The next round begins with 4 cards in your hands, and 4s and jokers are wild. You play the same way.. except you have to all your cards in sets of AT LEAST 3, so for this round and for round 5 you will have sets of 4 and 5. Again, everyone gets a chance to discard one last time after someone gets tic. Sometimes it is better to get rid of high cards (like aces) on your last turn than to go for a set. If you have a set of at least 3, it will not count against you. So if someone calls tic in round 4 and you have a set of 3 anything, and an ace, get rid of the ace. You want the lowest score possible! So a hand full of low cards is better than a set and extra high cards. When you get to the round with 6 cards, 6s are wild, and now you can have 2 sets of 3 to get tic (or 1 set of 6). The round with 7 cards, 7 are wild, and so on.. sets of at least 3 never count against you, add up all the cards not in sets. There will be 15 ROUNDS! Every round, the number of cards goes up and the wild card goes up. The second to last round aces are wild, the very last round, 2s are wild! After 15 rounds whoever has the lowest score wins! At round 15 you can have 5 sets of 3 to get tic. Awesome. Really fun game, enjoy! Coty9090 (talk) 08:04, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

If you can't find sources, then the game fails WP:GNG and is not suitable for Wikipedia. Clarityfiend (talk) 09:18, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

The Candle Lamp Company, Peekskill, NY

I'd like to know about The Candle Lamp Company, Peekskill, NY. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Paulie12 (talk • contribs) 14:01, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

Is this the company you mean? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 84.21.143.150 (talk) 14:07, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Advertising legalities

I was wondering how SodaStream was able to create the banned commercial featuring both Coke and Pepsi -- isn't it impermissible to feature another's product, especially in a mocking or scandalous fashion? Or is it merely a play on our expectations, in that we just think it's so clearly presenting Coke and Pepsi, and really, the logos are partially obscured and the drivers are really just wearing red and blue? DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 18:45, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

It's a very broad question. There may be legislative jurisdictions where it is illegal to mention another company's product in your own advertising, but as a general rule of thumb I don't think there's any such prohibition.

But you're right that it's unusual, if only because to mention the other guy at all in your own advertising is to give a free plug to them, and smart marketers know this. That's what "suggestion" really means. It's usually taken to mean more like "recommendation", but to mention something at all is to put into the minds of the listener/reader something that may not have been there before. To mention Pepsi in a Coke ad, even if done to disparage Pepsi, is to suggest Pepsi.

This, for example, is why it's really dumb to say "Don't forget to ...". The listener may never have had any intention to forget whatever it was, but now that the concept has been raised, forgetting might well become exactly what they'll do. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 19:18, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

I'm curious about that last statement, Jack. I trust it's not necessary to prove that people frequently forget things that they have no intention of forgetting (spouse's birthday, buying milk, etc.) even when they haven't been issued a "Don't forget to..." suggestion. Is such a reminder, phrased in that way, really worse than no reminder at all? Have any studies been done which demonstrate an increased propensity for forgetting following such a suggestion? I'm quite curious to see such research. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 19:46, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

I put it in the same category as the First Lady not saying to the President in the morning, "See you for dinner, honey. Don't press the nuclear button and blow up North Korea or anything". Or a parent who's watching their child ride a bike unaided for the very first time, does not say "Don't fall off and smash your teeth and break your bones". Here are some hits I found - [8], [9], [10], [11], [12], [13], [14] - the latter don't qualify as research per se. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 20:32, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

Those are interesting, but only one (this page) happens to mention an instruction to not forget something, and as you say, it's far from any sort of real research. It also discusses it in the context of advertising, where the intent is presumably to influence the reader to do something they they didn't previously plan to do, or to make them aware of an event or product of which they were previously unaware. The nub of the problem is whether or not forgetting, in the circumstance you originally discussed, is a 'positive' act that can be consciously or subconsciously influenced by the mention of forgetting. The essence of some of those articles that you linked to is that the brain tends to get sloppy when given negatively phrased instructions— "Don't do this" gets initially parsed as "Do this". But what happens with the double negative of the 'don't forget' formulation? Does the brain hear "Don't forget to buy milk!" as "Don't Forget to buy milk!" or as "Don't forget to Buy milk!"

Getting back to mentioning competitors in ads, I doubt that you'll find Pepsi running ad copy reading either "Forget Coca-Cola!" or "Don't forget Coca-Cola!" — either way, I'm coming away from the page thinking about Coke. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 20:56, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

How many lines do the actors have in an average coke commercial? :) KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 02:11, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

The keyword you're looking for is comparative advertising. (Unfortunately, our article needs some work.) The laws regarding the use of other company's brand names, trademarks, symbols, etc. in advertising vary quite a bit by jurisdiction. In the United States, it is permissible to directly and openly compare one's own product to those of one's competitors (c.f. Pepsi Challenge). However, the claims in such advertising (and in all advertising) are governed by the rules and regulations of the Federal Trade Commission; misleading or dishonest comparisons are barred. Other countries and cultures will have different rules and/or attitudes regarding comparative advertising. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 20:25, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

I'm not familiar with the commercial you're referring to, but FYI Coke and Pepsi have crossed over in the past. There was a Pepsi commercial featuring a Coca-Cola delivery driver stopping to sate himself with some forbidden Pepsi (IIRC, it may have been vice versa; this was more than a decade ago). Matt Deres (talk) 01:17, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Pepsi did this with the Pepsi Challenge adverts years ago. Also, the "I'm a Mac" adverts did the same. Linux came up with the novel idea of using that advert itself to promote its own product, having three characters on the stage. It's not illegal. It's probably illegal to actually show the rival's product's logo or packaging, but certainly not illegal to mention them in some way. KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 02:08, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Can we please not engage in off-the-cuff speculation about what is legal and what is not? The article on comparative advertising which I linked to yesterday touches on the legality of using other companies' trademarks in advertising. This varies by jurisdiction, but the use of other companies' trademarks is legal (with unsurprising caveats on uncertain, misleading, deceptive, or untruthful claims) in advertising in the U.S. and the U.K. and probably many other places. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 17:53, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Collectible plates

Hi folks! I have been searching for references and any known knowledge on a set of colletible plates that I have recently came across. They date back to the early 1920's and were put out once yearly up to and including 1986. They may possibly still be put out to this day I am not sure. On most of them it says: Lake Shore Pioneer Chapter NY Central Veterans around the lip of the plate then on the bottom it says Cedar Point and the year such as 1955 then a few are commemorative of such things as End of the Line 1908-1979 with the same around the lip of the plate. Can you help me? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rooster914 (talk • contribs) 20:34, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

There's a few for sale on ebay - a guess something produced for employees/enthusiasts of the railway line? Lake_Shore_Limited New York Central ---- _nonsense ferret 23:48, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

Generally speaking, what is the cheapest color to produce?

I have searched on the Internet to see if I could clarify this doubt of mine but I have found different opinions. Some say black, others red, some gray, others green... Hopefully you can provide me with a definite answer to this question. Thanks in advance. --190.19.95.159 (talk) 20:36, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

Colour of paint? Itsmejudith (talk) 20:40, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

Color of crayon? Light? Ink? Ketchup? M&M? Money? Dismas|^(talk) 21:26, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

Fairly obviously, the natural color of whatever material we're talking about here! SteveBaker (talk) 00:21, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Perhaps my question was not clear enough. I am not talking about any particular material, but rather about all of the colors that can be produced using any means. --190.19.95.159 (talk) 05:14, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Your question is most certainly not clear enough - even with this clarification! Are you talking about paint colors? Dye colors? Light source colors? The answer is dramatically different depending on what you're asking about. We can probably tell you whether white paint is cheaper than red paint (although the answer might be complicated by whether you need a very precise shade of red - or whether it has to be glossy or flat) - but if you're talking about coloring cloth, then bleaching it white might be cheaper than dying it red. Making white plastic might be more expensive than red plastic...but that's not related to whether red is cheaper or more expensive than white in a paint or a dye. The material that's being colored (and how, and why) is a critical part of the answer. We really need a clearer question here! SteveBaker (talk) 14:21, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

I believe that, historically, red paint was cheapest, which explains why it was used on things like barns, which needed a lot of paint to protect the wood, but which weren't exactly fashion statements, so the farmers used the cheapest paint they could find. Don't know if it's still the cheapest color, though.

Another issue is coverage. When painting with white paint over a bright background, some would likely show through, unless you used multiple coats or primer. Darker colors, on the other hand, could be used with fewer coats. This would affect total cost. StuRat (talk) 04:24, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Black, because soot is free? Dbfirs 07:47, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Rust is also "free" - and Iron Oxide is what was used to paint those red barns. SteveBaker (talk) 14:21, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Ochre is also free.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:47, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

But red dye for clothes was expensive. According to Cochineal it was used for dyeing the clothes of kings, nobles and the clergy. So I don't think that there's a general answer to the OP's question. Sjö (talk) 10:17, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

By amount of colour I'd say - Blue for the sky and the sea. Yellow for the sun. Black for space. Just to go up in increasing sizes of areas covered. Dmcq (talk) 12:07, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Green. Just leave whatever you want to color green in a damp spot in the woods and wait until mold and moss have covered it. Cost=zero. Sjö (talk) 14:43, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

But waiting involves time, and time = money. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 18:50, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Indeed it does. Einstein proved it.[15] ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:19, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Historically speaking, the most expensive colors were blue and purple, because the dyes used to create them were expensive to manufacture. In ancient times, purple dyes in the Mediterranean region typically originated from Phoenecia, where shells of the Murex sea snail were processed by the hundreds into small quantities of Tyrian purple. This is why people in the West sometimes associate the color purple with royalty: it was a costly color to use, and only the aristocracy could afford it. Blue has a similar history: blue pigment is not common in nature, and certain hues became symbols of status in and of themselves in the ancient world. Perhaps most notably, ancient Egyptians often used blue pigment created from Lapis lazuli stones for decoration, though the import was so costly and the color so important to their culture that they eventually developed a synthetic replacement.

However, in modern times, pigments are generally industrially produced and are often synthetic, so the price between different colors doesn't vary much. In addition, colors that were pricey in Europe at any given time were more available elsewhere and vice versa, so economic globalization brings us a much wider range of colors at a lower cost, unlike the ancient Greeks, who had to pay big money for a little tint. —Rutebega (talk) 03:20, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

The royal houses of Europe must have been seriously miffed when a clever German boffin worked out how to make purple dye from coal. Alansplodge (talk) 11:55, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Most people these days associate the color purple only with Hollywood royalty, not real royalty. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 05:27, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

February 4

Slough rail accident

4th Feb 2013

Rail accident at I beleive the Slough area UK in about 1959-61

Trying to find details. I was a passenger on a following train and my friend was on the accident train. we were both in the RAF. I believe only a few persons were hurt. I rememeber passing the site and noted that several coaches were lying on there side and the rail were twisted like bent pieces of wire.

Do you have any details of this event? Just curious.92.24.225.134 (talk) 09:16, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

The accident was on 1 May 1959, and the official report is available online at [16]. There doesn't seem to be anything on Wikipedia; with just a few injuries, it may not be serious enough to merit an article. Warofdreams talk 10:09, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

philospohy

Is it right that dead people still have power over their intellectual properties and tangible ones? Does it mean that if it is unclear or unknown to whom the owner passed an intellectual property the property is itself owned by the one who will find or get it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.97.111.151 (talk) 12:29, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

This is a very similar question to that in Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2013_February_1#ETHICS and I believe the answers there are a pretty complete answer for this too. Dmcq (talk) 12:58, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

A few subtle differences here, the question is should dead people have power over property after death - opinions differ on this point, what do you think? In some cases legal systems will carry out the wishes of the deceased, in many cases too they will set aside to some extent those wishes and give preference to creditors of the estate and family members in distributing those assets.

Secondly, to whom will property pass if the deceased did not provide a will - that is a question regarding the rules of intestate succession which would be specific to the legal jurisdiction in question - generally it would be the spouse or children of the deceased in first preference, followed by parents or siblings, then more remote family members, and perhaps all else failing such as the example of the UK it will be the property of the state. In order to claim such property you would generally have to show that you had a claim based on some blood relationship generally, or could provide evidence of a will written in your favour by the deceased. ---- _nonsense ferret 14:20, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

I suppose it could be taken as 'should' rather than 'is it true that'. As has been said before and here dead people are not people but ex-people as far as most systems of law are concerned. They do not feature in any convention on human rights that I know of.

If that is so I'd interpret the question as whether we think a person's intellectual property should become public domain when they die. As far as the reference desk is concerned that can be translated into do we know of any debate or movement to cancel intellectual property rights on death rather than have them pass to the heirs. Personally I think most such rights except things like trade marks which are part of a continuing work or trade should only last thirty years irrespective of death or non-death but the article Societal views on intellectual property is probably the best place to go to about these questions. Dmcq (talk) 15:36, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Turtle Wax

I know it probably wouldnt be allowed now but did Turtle wax used to be made from real turtles?--92.17.48.43 (talk) 20:45, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

No. μηδείς (talk) 20:58, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Here is a quote from the company's web page, which I think should answer the question: "With a knowledge of chemistry and fascination of cars, Ben (Hirsch) mixed-up his first batches of PlastoneTM in the family bathtub in the late 1930s. Ben’s wife, Marie, bottled the auto polish as Ben traveled by streetcar to gas stations in the Chicago area to market and demonstrate his product. On a sales call in Wisconsin, Ben Hirsch passed by Turtle Creek. In a moment of inspiration, he realized the protective hard shell of a turtle was just like the finish produced by his auto polish, so he renamed his company Turtle Wax." Looie496 (talk) 20:59, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Like the jingle: "Turtle Wax gives a hard shell finish... Turtle Wax!" ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:17, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Just like baby food isn't made of real babies. KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 04:46, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

But I'd never be surprised to learn that cat food is made from real cats. Or navel oranges are made from real belly buttons. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 19:19, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Spotted Dick would worry me more, Jack. KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 08:47, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

Oh no, that's yummy. You should try it some time. You never know till you try ..... (I can't believe that anyone would be so stupid as to rename it "Spotted Richard" for fear of offending customers. People can actually make these context-contingent distinctions. Nobody ever thinks that "Our hearts were bright and gay" means "Our hearts were bright and homosexual", do they? Words fail me.) -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 18:48, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

Analog wrist watch with altimeter and compass

Is there any on the market? OsmanRF34 (talk) 23:56, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Does this count [17] ---- _nonsense ferret 00:21, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Yes. And something less ugly? Maybe some Timex? OsmanRF34 (talk) 00:38, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

maybe [18] - or you could always ask for a fishing rod ---- _nonsense ferret 01:09, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

For the feature set of {Timex, analog, altimeter, compass}, it appears to be a case of "choose 3". That is, no case of an analog Timex with altimeter and compass, but you can strike any one of those terms and find a watch that matches the other 3. Google quickly returns all such combinations. — Lomn 15:54, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Is this a request for a reference? μηδείς (talk) 01:04, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Of course it is. — Lomn 14:21, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

A simple Google search won't deliver the results that I asked. As said, it had to have both altimeter and compass. Add to it that it has to be analog and don't look like a toy. OsmanRF34 (talk) 13:38, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Your last criterion is subjective and therefore beyond the scope of this page. However, given what you say, you might strike it lucky by perusing Google images, rather than "a simple Google search". --Dweller (talk) 15:19, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Even then, since manufacturers sell watches with altimeters or compass, I often got results of pages with both options, but not together. OsmanRF34 (talk) 12:37, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Analog altimeters are tricky things - they work by measuring the air pressure - but variations in pressure due to temperature, humidity and other aspects of the weather means that without frequent (at least daily) recalibration, you're not going to get a reliable answer. A very sophisticated analog altimeter can somewhat compensate for some of these changes - but such a fancy device would be very hard to fit into a watch. On the other hand, digital altimeters can use GPS - which gets your altitude to amazing precision and without recalibration. So if you actually care about your altitude (rather than just having another cute widget on your fancy mechanical watch), you need a digital device. SteveBaker (talk) 14:39, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

February 5

Last monarch to be killed in battle?

The recent recovery of the body of Richard III of England has got me wondering who was the last monarch to be killed in battle. After Richard I know of James IV of Scotland and Gustavus Adolphus of Sweden, but are there any later candidates? -- Arwel Parry (talk) 13:48, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

The last king appears to have been Charles XII of Sweden. If we were to include executions during civil war or tribal/non-state kings there are likely lots more recent examples. 88.112.41.6 (talk) 14:32, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Remarkably, Wikipedia has Category:Monarchs killed in action. Unfortunately, it is not sorted by date, nor can I vouch for its completeness. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 15:20, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

I haven't screened the entire category, but Yohannes IV (Emperor of Ethiopia, died 1889 in the Battle of Metemma) could be a contender. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 15:26, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

That was indeed the last one anyone could think of last time we discussed this. - Jarry1250 ^{[Deliberation needed]} 13:40, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

I've checked the category using catscan, Yohannes IV is indeed the most recent in it. The second most recent is Ali Mirza of Kakheti. Hut 8.5 17:20, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

AICPA Practice Bulletin No. 14 Limited Liability Companies

I am trying to find the original AICPA pronouncement "AICPA Practice Bulletin No. 14 Limited Liability Companies" does Wikipedia have it anywheres? Can Wikipedia get a copy? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.74.196.58 (talk) 13:48, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

No there is no copy on Wikipedia and I doubt that we could get one. Do any of these, these or these look like what you want? If not then try going to the AICPA and searching or ask them. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 13:58, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Michael Jackson's Neverland

outing people notable only as victims is against WP:AVOIDVICTIM policy
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
I know that Michael Jackson is thought to have molested children in Neverland, but I have tried many Google searches to try to find a list of the children's names. I have found several articles about Eva Chandler's son, but never a list of names.174.131.64.182 (talk) 16:39, 5 February 2013 (UTC) It's common practice for newspapers and TV stations to omit the names of victims of sexual abuse, regardless of the age of the victim at the time of the incident. Only those children (who would now be adults of course, and free to make such a decision) who wish to make their stories known will do so. Other victims may wish to remain anonymous to avoid publicity or have moved on with their lives and want to put that event behind them as best they can. --McDoobAU93 16:45, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

norman appreciation society/register

Can anyone tell me if the Norman Appreciation Society is still extant? If not is it likely to be re-started?81.100.37.46 (talk) 17:17, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

There's a Norman Gunston International Appreciation Society. That may or may not be useful to you. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 20:19, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Yeah we're gonna need a bit more to work with here I think - Norman Wisdom? Norman, Oklahoma? The Norman invasion of Britain in 1066? ... ---- _nonsense ferret 21:52, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Well perhaps they were looking for the Dormansland Ruth Norman Appreciation Society. I have no idea what to say about that group. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 13:33, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

For those who believe, no explanation is necessary. For those who do not believe, no explanation is possible. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 10:42, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Sitar

Hi, is anyone here familiar with the sitar?

1. According to Sitar, "A sitar can have 21, 22, or 23 strings, among them six or seven played strings which run over the frets", so does that mean that all the remainder are "sympathetic strings", so there would be 14 to 17 sympathetic strings?

2. According to http://www.joerizzo.com/sitar/index.htm, which seems to be written by someone with good knowledge of the subject, "Most sitars have between 18-20 strings (my particular sitar has 20 strings - 7 main and 13 sympathetic - other sitars often have 11 sympathetic)." Those are different and not even overlapping number ranges. Which is correct?

3. Down the neck of the sitar are lots of what I understand are tuning pegs, most of them for the sympathetic strings. I'm wondering how these pegs actuslly connect with the strings, and I cannot find a photograph or diagram anywhere that really shows this clearly. Do the sympathetic strings pass through holes in the fretboard? I'm wondering if the white dots on the fretboard in the picture at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sitar_taraf_pegs_layout.jpg, are actually these holes??

86.171.43.12 (talk) 20:49, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

This exploded view might be helpful for understanding. Yes, the sympathetics go through the fretboard. In general, questions like this should go on Talk:Sitar rather than here; more specifically knowledgeable people will see that page. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 02:46, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Do you know about numbers of strings? I hear what you're saying about place to ask questions, but it's debatable. The Sitar talk page is very low-traffic, and questions asked on such pages can go for months without attracting any answer, if indeed they ever do. 86.179.117.64 (talk) 04:13, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Good point. Anyway, I've been looking at places selling sitars and haven't found anything with the higher number of strings yet. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 06:06, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

And that's because it was a piece of vandalism from 2007! --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 06:15, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Challenging an anti public ordinance passed by a county.

Sorry, but Wikipedia's policies don't allow us to give legal advice. Looie496 (talk) 22:40, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
County of Sacramento has been giving an Exclusive rights contract to a group of 80 Taxi drivers for the last 20 years and recently renewed it for next 5 years. There are about 500+ cabs in the city of Sacramento. This policy violates many equal rights of other drivers. I want to challenge this policy in court. Please advise. Also send me some similar court cases as an example for my reference. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.54.5.206 (talk) 22:20, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

We can't offer legal advice, but the request for info on similar cases we could do, if anyone can find any. StuRat (talk) 06:50, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

(You'd have to ask for information on specific similar cases - if we look to see if we can find any similar cases then that might constitute a legal opinion as to which cases would be considered sufficiently similar under the law.) SteveBaker (talk) 13:27, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

February 6

Russian place names.

Can anyone tell me what the following towns in Russia are now called: 1888 - Roschistsh, Russia, and 1890 - Walynian, Russia. Please advise? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eagle Eye Genealogy (talk • contribs) 01:55, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Well, there is a town called Rozhysche in the Volyn Oblast of Ukraine, part of the historic region known as Volhynia (Wolhynien, in German). In 1888-1890 this place was in the Volhynian Governorate of the Russian Empire, not far from the border with the Austrian Empire. "Roschists" is a fairly plausible German-influenced transcription of the town's name. There is a fairly large article about the place in the Ukrainian Wikipedia, uk:Рожище, and there is also the town's web site (in Ukrainian, of course): http://www.rozhysche.com.ua/ -- Vmenkov (talk) 02:24, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Changing the natural landscape

as noted, we can't give legal advice, sorry
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
CHANGING THE NATURAL LANDSCCAPE 3 years ago my neighbour built a retaining wall all the way across my property line. Since this point and never prior in the 14 years I have been here, it has caused water to come in an unusual fashion onto my property. The first attempt to fix this was to install a pipe accross the driveway to collect and reroute the water at a cost of $700.00. This stopped nothing except now we have water coming down the other side of the cottage which we attempted to fix at a cost of $500.00 Currently we have had a heavy rain and melt and we have water coming down the original side and into the basement.. Question! Is the neighbour responsible for changing the natural lay of the land and waterflow ? Question2 What can I do if he is responsible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.92.32.62 (talk) 02:50, 6 February 2013 (UTC) The Wikipedia Reference Desk cannot answer requests for legal advice. You may wish to contact a lawyer or your local bar association with your questions. Regardless, asking these sorts of questions on open internet forums is not generally advisable, as your answer is more likely to come from a random stranger on the internet making his best guess, than it is from a Canadian lawyer with the relevant experience. Someguy1221 (talk) 02:57, 6 February 2013 (UTC) It sounds like your rainwater and melt-water was draining into his property, and the retaining wall prevents this. If that's the case, your legal options may be quite limited. We can possibly make suggestions as to how you can improve drainage, though. Do you have sewers ? If so, you need to drain into the storm sewer (not the sanitary sewer). If not, then you need to build a dry well. If you need to lift the water over a hill to dispose of it, then you will need a sump pump. StuRat (talk) 03:05, 6 February 2013 (UTC) On the other hand, the law where you live may be different from the law where StuRat lives, so you should speak to a lawyer licensed to practice in your province (if you are in Canada), who will know your options under local law. Marco polo (talk) 17:16, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

the old childerns home in bush/hurst, il.

IM TRYING TO FIND SOME INFO ON THE OLD CHILDERNS HOME IN BUSH/HURST, IL. IT CLOSED IN THE 70'S. BEFORE IT WAS THE CHILDERNS HOME IT WAS A PLACE FOR THE RAILROAD WORKERS TO STAY AT. IM LOOKING FOR ANY INFO ON THE BUILDING. CAN YOU HELP ME? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dreamchild2 (talk • contribs) 03:55, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

I removed your e-mail. Any answered will be provided here. RudolfRed (talk) 04:46, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

It looks like Bush and Hurt closed down in the 1970s as well. The two villages have a combined population of around 1000. Your best shot would be to contact someone in Williamson County, Illinois and inquire about local historical societies or libraries which can help you with your research. There's a phone number at the bottom of this page for the Williamson Tourism Bureau, they may be able to direct you to someone who can help. Here is a list of important numbers in Williamson County, which includes "vital records" and "county clerk", which may be able to help. I also found This website for the Williamson County Historical Society Museum. The website is a bit of a mess, I can't find a phone number or an address for the place, but if you can locate it, it may prove to be useful in your research. --Jayron32 04:56, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

There is a better link (with contact info) for the Williamson County Historical Society here: http://lunarius.net/historical/ - it provides <wchsmuseum@gmail.com> as their email address - and there is a "response form" there to leave a question on their website. SteveBaker (talk) 14:56, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Podcasts on healthy debates

Hi All, Can anyone suggest me where i can download podcasts on debates or discussions on iomportant topics relating to anything but serious ,i mean not the ones interrupting each other but something healthy and can learn somthing out of which.. Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.199.72.144 (talk) 10:09, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Not sure exactly what you are looking for - there is a reasonably high quality of debate on various BBC Radio 4 podcasts, see for example The Moral Maze ---- _nonsense ferret 13:12, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

You might want to look more for interviews than debates, as "debates" often seem to involve people yelling over the top of each other, these days. Interviews by Charlie Rose, for example, are usually respectful, yet still get the the meat of the question. Charlie often presents the opposing side, after saying "Some people argue that...", for example. StuRat (talk) 15:52, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

See "List of podcatchers" and Category:Podcasting

and PodcastDirectory.com | The big directory for you

and Podcast Directory : Podfeed.net

and PodcastAlley.com -- The place to find Podcasts

—Wavelength (talk) 16:35, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Things libre but not gratis (or near gratis)

What are some things that are libre but not gratis (to the point where nontrivial amounts of people only can't get it because they can't afford it)? 67.163.109.173 (talk) 11:32, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Have you read Gratis versus libre? Lots of things are libre but not gratis. I'm not sure I understand the point you're making in the brackets, as it seems to imply you think that both terms relate to money. The embrace of a prostitute may be freely available to all, but free of charge to some or none. --Dweller (talk) 11:43, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

The parentheses were to imply that I am mainly interested in monetarily expensive (a subjective term) things (not services) that are libre. And I didn't see many examples of expensive libre things at Gratis versus libre. 67.163.109.173 (talk) 11:53, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Ah, I see what you mean now. --Dweller (talk) 12:47, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

OK - so we're looking for something that costs a lot of money to obtain - but once obtained may be used without restriction?

How about a car? It costs a lot of money - but I can legally re-sell it, repair it (often with unauthorized 3rd party parts), modify it, drive it whenever and wherever I like and I can get a workshop manual for it that describes all of it's internal operations.

This fulfills *some* of the "libre" meanings - but there are other aspects to this - the ability to legally make exact copies, for example. You can't (legally) make an exact copy of your car because you'd be infringing on any number of patents and copyrights.

For that sense of "libre", how about buying a racehorse? You could have to pay a small fortune to buy a good one - but you can breed it and even (in principle) clone it to make copies without legal restriction.

Perhaps a better example would be my custom-built house - I paid an architect to draw up the plans - and I own those plans. I can pay a builder to make an exact copy of my house - or I could do it myself if I had the necessary skills.

The trouble with the racehorse and custom-home examples is that only I have the right to make copies...although I do have the right to confer that right on others by giving them a sample of my racehorse DNA or a copy of the plans of my house. But not just anyone can copy those things legally. But arguably that's true for things like OpenSourced software which is widely agreed to be both gratis and libre. You can't make copies of a GPL'ed piece of software without downloading it from someone else who gave you the ability to do so. They can (and often do) prevent you from downloading a copy. My website has a copy of "Apache" running on it - but I don't allow you to download it from my site. That's a necessary part of the GPL'ed model because the act of giving it away is entangled with the requirement that you affix the "copyleft" license to the copies. If I give you a copy of some piece of GPL'ed software WITHOUT the copyleft agreement - then I'm breaking the terms of the GPL and that's not legal.

SteveBaker (talk) 13:17, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Generally speaking, if something is libre then it doesn't matter who owns it. That means it will be essentially gratis (why pay for something if you can use it without owning it?). Whether you can find any counterexamples will depend on exactly how you define "libre". --Tango (talk) 21:07, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

All free software falls under this category[19]. I can sell a piece of GPL software for a million dollars, yet at the same time it remains free (as in freedom). My first customer is free to start selling it for $999,999 and undercut me. He's also free to put it on The Pirate Bay.Dncsky (talk) 21:28, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

You could offer it for sale for a million dollars. To actually sell it for that price you would have to find a buyer willing to pay that much for something they could get for free... --Tango (talk) 21:31, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Suggest bad guy names

Our company's HR director recently announced she is going to rename all twenty of our meeting rooms and is looking for suggestions. I figured I'd suggest naming them all after main bad guys from well-known fictional works. So far I have:

• Blofeld
• Harkonnen
• Megatron
• Moriarty
• Mumm-Ra
• Palpatine
• Sauron
• Skeletor
• Voldemort

That still leaves eleven. Please suggest more. The following rules apply:

• The bad guy must be fictional. For example Adolf Hitler or Benito Mussolini won't do.
• The fiction must be reasonably well-known internationally, even if the actual main bad guy is not.
• The bad guy must be known by the same name regardless of language. For example, Flintheart Glomgold or John D. Rockerduck won't do, because they're called "Kulta-Into Pii" and "Kroisos Pennonen" in Finnish.
• The fiction can be of any sort whatsoever. Books, comics, TV shows, movies, you name it.

JIP | Talk 19:20, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

• Lex Luthor, General Zod, Cthulu, Hannibal Lecter, Hans Gruber, Agent Smith, Keyser Soze, Dracula, Ivan Drago. --Jayron32 19:30, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Treadstone. Shadowjams (talk) 19:34, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Darth Vader. StuRat (talk) 19:36, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

O'Brien 20.137.2.50 (talk) 19:55, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Um, O'Brien is the villain, Goldstein's a scapegoat. μηδείς (talk) 20:39, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Um, yeah. That's why I said O'Brien. I've always said O'Brien! Why are you talking about Goldstein, man? 20.137.2.50

• Well, Medea obviously. There's also Morgan le Fay, although her villany is debatable, and the name is not one word. In any case, you sorely lack female names, and I would recommend sticking to the classics and avoiding cartoon villains. we have a list of female supervillains, but none of them rises above Catwoman. Internet searches almost all get cartoon villains. μηδείς (talk) 20:22, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

There are also Jezebel, Lilith, Tiamat, and Salome. Oh, and Kali, although that might be inappropriate if you have any thugs working for you. μηδείς (talk) 20:31, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

• • (edit conflict) Well, Medea isn't as villainous of a name anymore since Tyler Perry appropriated Madea for his series of cross dressing films. People are likely to confuse it. Catwoman is good; though mythology has other female villains to choose from Medusa and Lilith spring to mind. More modern female villains could include the devious Miss Havisham, or perhaps Almira Gulch, Cruella de Vil, Harley Quinn, Rosa Klebb, Nurse Ratched, Annie Wilkes, Bellatrix Lestrange for a few. Many of those come from literature or live action films, not necessarily cartoons. --Jayron32 20:38, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
    • Madea is not Medea is not Medeis. I thought of De Vil and Ratched but the OP seems to want one-name characters. Ratched's too wretched in my book any way--I* would not want to work in a place with a room named after her. μηδείς (talk) 20:42, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
      • No, Madea is not Medea, which is why I said they weren't. Still, trying to explain every time why the main character of Diary of a Mad Black Woman is a "villain", and then having to point out the spelling difference doesn't make it ideal. Yes Medea is a good villain from mythology. The potential for confusion, however, may not make it good for the application the OP has. I also don't see why the "Ratched" room or the "Klebb" room wouldn't work as singular last names. It would be plainly obvious who they were referencing. --Jayron32 20:46, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
        • I certainly don't oppose Ratched as not evil enough, but she's usually Nurse Ratched which seems to violate the implicit one-name rule. And imagining her makes me think of the suicide, and if I woprked in such a place I'd file a complaint for psychological abuse if I had to work in a room that called to mind that image. μηδείς (talk) 20:59, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Miss Havisham, Jayron? She was the victim, a jiltee the balance of whose mind was altered ever afterwards, and someone whose loyalty and faithfulness to him who done her wrong serves as a shining example to us all. (By my clock it's 8 am on 7 February, Charles Dickens' 201st birthday, so that proves I'm right.)

I'd nominate a pile of James M. Cain villainesses: Mildred Pierce and her daughter Veda; Cora Papadakis as played by Lana Turner in The Postman Always Rings Twice (1946; not the trashy remake); and Phyllis Dietrichson as played by Barbara Stanwyck in Double Indemnity. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 21:05, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Yes, two of my favorite movies, but I don't see rooms designated ad Papadakis and Dietrichson being particularly menacing. μηδείς (talk) 22:53, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Havisham is certainly a very complex character, and the fact that her villainy has its antecedents doesn't make her less villainous. She's a sympathetic villain, but her treatment of Pip is hardly model behavior... --Jayron32 21:13, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Boris Badenov Bus stop (talk) 20:35, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

And, for equal time, Natasha Nogoodnik. StuRat (talk)

• Servalan--best villain of any sex ever!!! μηδείς (talk) 20:39, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
• Jadis the White Witch from Narnia. μηδείς (talk) 20:47, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
• Lamia and Medusa Dmcq (talk) 22:03, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
• Iago is surely a must; one of the most memorable villains ever, if a little hard to connect with because his evil seems so unmotivated. --Trovatore (talk) 22:39, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
• You already use Bond, so Goldfinger qualifies. If you have geeks, Takhisis is a female option. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 22:45, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Question for JIP... did your group go over other possibilities before settling on evil villians? I ask because I've always loved naming nomenclature like this. I had a friend who used greek gods, for instance. I read a story once that the CIA named networks after states and servers after cities in those states, which led to disturbing elevator conversations... but that may be an old wife's tale. Shadowjams (talk) 00:18, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

From Doctor Who:

• • FendahlD"goubsq
  • Fenric
  • Gavrok
  • Jagrafess
  • Kane
  • Kroagnon
  • Malus
  • Megron
  • Morbius
  • Morgaine
  • Nimrod
  • Rassilon
  • Scaroth
  • Sutekh
  • Timewyrm
  • Valeyard
  • Weng-Chiang
  • Xoanon
  • Zodin

— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 01:20, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Ah, yes, Dr Who villains alone should be sufficient. And you left out Eldrad. μηδείς (talk) 01:26, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

How about Elphaba? Or should it be Glinda?

Additionally there's Hades (more a villain in Disney canon than in mythology), George Wickham, Albert Knag, Syndrome, The Laughing Man, Orochimaru... oh, dear, I've ventured into anime, so I'd better stop. Just thought I'd offer some unique ideas; hopefully they at least made you think about other possible antagonists. Cheers. —Rutebega (talk) 04:15, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Mordred, Bowser, Morgoth, the Queen of Hearts, Vetinari, Claudius, Don Juan, Captain Hook, Loki. 130.88.99.231 (talk) 12:47, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Gotta have Cruella de Vil from 101 Dalmatians. She's a great villain. SteveBaker (talk) 14:49, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Zorg. Warofdreams talk 15:28, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your replies! So far I have:

• Blofeld
• Bowser
• Cthulhu
• Doh
• Harkonnen
• Khan
• Kingpin
• Lecter
• Luthor
• Megatron
• Moriarty
• Mumm-Ra
• Palpatine
• Rastapopoulos
• Ratched
• Sauron
• Skeletor
• Söze
• Takhisis
• Voldemort

I couldn't use for example Catwoman or Cruella de Vil, because they fail the "must be known by the same name regardless of language" rule. In Finnish, they're called "Kissanainen" and "Julmia Juonio". Many other suggested characters also failed this. I wanted to use Dracula, but he was a real person, although not a blood-sucking vampire. I thought of using Frankenstein, but then I realised Frankenstein was the good guy in the story - the bad guy was simply called "the monster". I wanted to use only one bad guy from each fiction, so I didn't use Goldfinger when I already had Blofeld or Darth Vader when I already had Palpatine. Nurse Ratched failing the "only one name" rule doesn't matter - I already have Moriarty and Söze there. So now I have at least two female villains. Rastapopoulos was my own idea which I got after posting this question. JIP | Talk 18:12, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

What was wrong with Iago? Just curious, as for me he's one of the best representations of distilled evil in literature (though as I mentioned, a bit unmotivated). You might also consider Merteuil. --Trovatore (talk) 19:21, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

I just hadn't read the article thoroughly enough. He seems fit to replace some character on my list (Doh or Bowser perhaps), but first I'll have to check if he's called something else in Finnish. That kept me from including either The Joker or Catwoman, which is a shame. JIP | Talk 19:33, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

He's called "Jago" in Finnish. This is a borderline case, as the name differs only by pronunciation. I couldn't use The Joker because he's called "Jokeri" in Finnish, which is a translation, not a transliteration or pronunciation change. JIP | Talk 19:36, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

• Do they have to be well known in Finland? I imagine Dr Who is - you hafta consider Eldrad. And it would really be a shame if Servalan from Blake's 7 is out of the running. μηδείς (talk) 19:41, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
  • Being well known in Finland is a definite plus, but not an absolute requirement. I might consider replacing Doh and Bowser with Eldrad and Servalan, if nothing else, then just to get a third female villain in. I have heard of Dr. Who, from several years of reading British computer magazines. It has only recently been started showing on Finnish TV though, and I've yet to see a single episode. Blake's 7 I hadn't even heard of, but that is not a problem, as I'm sure someone in Finland has. By the way, I took the liberty of editing your comment so that the link to Eldrad is now an internal link instead of an external link back to Wikipedia.

    For a villainess, I commend to your consideration Dolores Umbridge. I'm not a big fan of Rowling's world view, from what I know about it, but the fact that she made a memorable antagonist out of a smarmy bureaucrat is definite points for her. --Trovatore (talk) 20:24, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Are weekend jobs a thing?

I am British; my friend is American. When I was younger, I had a Saturday job. I suggested to my workshy America friend that he could just get a Saturday or weekend job if he didn't want a full-time job. But he's never heard of the concept. Is a Saturday or weekend job actually a thing in America? 90.193.232.199 (talk) 21:22, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

My wife used to ride on an Ambulance crew in Chicago, and she used to work two 13 hour shifts on Saturdays and Sundays. So no, it isn't unheard of. You just need to find the right job. In some industries (especially those that require 24/7 staffing) people often don't want to work the weekends, so it may be easier to get work on the Weekends only, covering for people who would rather spend the time with their kids, or things like that. --Jayron32 21:27, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

There are certainly weekend-only jobs in the United States, but they are a little uncommon. Plenty of Americans work on weekends, but most also work on some weekdays as well. However, part-time jobs are very common in the United States. Employers like part-time jobs because part-time employees often don't qualify for various benefits. Most part-time jobs are not strictly weekend jobs. They might include one or more weekend shifts as well as one or more weekday shifts. Marco polo (talk) 22:08, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

What do university and high school students do then if not Saturday jobs? I am concerned about their future careers. Itsmejudith (talk) 22:38, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

There are employers who actively seek out part-time employees, like fast-food restaurants. They don't offer much in the way of money, benefits, and chance of advancement in these McJobs, but they do offer flexible hours. Each employee typically lists when they can work, and the employer does the scheduling based on that. StuRat (talk) 22:49, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

In university I worked a part-time job that had no weekend components — you just did it different days of the week, or different times, from when you had class. When I was post-university I worked a retail job for awhile that required occasional weekend work. When I was in high school I did not work any regular job; I knew a few people who did, but it was pretty rare when I was in school. But I've never heard of anyone in the US only getting a job just on the weekend. It's somewhat unusual. Marco Polo's answer is spot on in my experience of these things; there is a broad definition of "part time" jobs in the US that often bleed into the weekend, and one can imagine someone having a part time job that was only on the weekend, but it is not considered a standard category here. --Mr.98 (talk) 03:36, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Are they that common in the UK? There's jobs of all sorts here, of course, but "weekend only" jobs seem odd to me. And there are plenty of opportunities for college students to work...during the week. Shadowjams (talk) 00:15, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Well, everyone here knows what a "Saturday job" is; [20] etc etc. Because late evening and Sunday shopping are innovations here, Saturday used to be a manic scramble at the shops and so retailers were keen to have Saturday only staff who didn't need to be paid very much. Ideal for school kids, who between the ages of 13 and 16 are legally able to work 2 hours a day on a weekday or Sunday, or 5 hours on a Saturday.[21] Also ideal for students and those desperate to top-up their income. Even teachers.[22] So perhaps the peculiar legal rules in the UK make specifically "Saturday-only" jobs a peculiarly British thing. However, I found several articles like The end of the Saturday job? Pupils miss out as hard times squeeze roles for teenagers. Alansplodge (talk) 01:07, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

side discussion snipped to talk page — Lomn 14:48, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

If your American friend was in the UK, he would need a work visa anyway, even for a part-time job. KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 04:43, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

That's a lot more responses than I was expecting. Thanks for the responses, everyone who was helpful; this should definitely help me help him find a job. And μηδείς, I was in fact asking what everyone else here thought I was asking, not what you thought I was asking. 90.193.232.199 (talk) 06:26, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

90.193: a simple wiki search for 'weekend job' would have sufficed to confirm that it's common everywhere. OsmanRF34 (talk) 12:35, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

... but 90.193 was asking if they are common in the USA, and the answer was "less common" than in the UK. Dbfirs 18:47, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

February 7

Vulcan nerve pinch in Dr Who

Tonight in the gym I was watching some episodes involving the first Doctor, a sequence called The Aztecs. At some point Ian Chesterton performed a maneuver that looked virutally identical in execution and effect to the Vulcan nerve pinch. Looking at the respective wikis for the shows I find that the Dr Who episodes were from 1964, but the first time Spock did his special thing was 1966.

The precedent is mentioned without other comment in our article on the Vulcan technique, but I'm curious whether there's any other evidence for or against the proposition that Roddenberry/Nimoy copied (consciously or otherwise) the earlier show. --Trovatore (talk) 11:16, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

The Vulcan nerve pinch article you mention has lots of information, including that the idea was devised by Nimoy, some speculation that it may have been influenced by the "karate chop" concept that was popular at that time and a mention (and even a photo) of Chesterton. If there was a knocking-out meme in those days, it seems reasonable enough for two different series to apply it in a way apt for specific characters: as the article points out, Nimoy came up with the idea when he rejected the idea of Spock being as violent as the script called for. --Dweller (talk) 12:42, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

I suppose it's not completely out of the question, but it seems like a fairly specific step from "you can knock someone out by hitting the base of the neck" to "you can knock someone out by pinching the shoulder". I'm skeptical of the idea that Nimoy's was truly an independent invention (though he may well have thought it was). But he must have been asked about it at some point — if anyone has seen such an interview, I'd be interested to know. --Trovatore (talk) 19:10, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Nimoy was seriously considered as the director of a Dr Who movie in 1996 - which suggests he has/had at least some interest & knowledge about Dr Who - but that's flimsey evidence about whether he'd seen that specific show 30 years earlier. SteveBaker (talk) 14:46, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

True. --Trovatore (talk) 19:10, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Active Shooter Drills at a University

Due to recent high-school shootings, my University is starting to do "Active Shooter" drills. I do not intend to start debate here, but my personal curiosity wonders if this is reasonable, since almost all shootings seem to be at high-schools. I'm not sure if this has anything to do with the person's age and maturity or what, but it has entered my mind as a possibility.

My MAIN question: When was the last time there was an active shooter on a UNIVERSITY campus WITHIN the United States?

Also if possible, what are reasons for staff to believe this is seriously possible when the latest event happened at a completely different level of education institution probably around 1000 miles away?

(Sorry but i personally think its an over reaction, i hear rumors the president is blaming video games instead of looking into the psychology of students who go violent, so I'm thinking the staff of education institutions are freaking out!)

Thanks for any help in knowing the history of University shootings, and the thought process behind these latest actions by University staff. :) 137.81.118.126 (talk) 15:37, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

The single most-deadly mass shooting incident in the US was the 2007 Virginia Tech massacre. Helping debunk the notion of "age or maturity" is the 2010 University of Alabama in Huntsville shooting, where a faculty member murdered colleagues during a meeting. A perusal of our list of school shootings in the United States finds dozens of university-level shooting incidents over the past 20 years. Shooting incidents are not confined to schools, and those which occur at schools are not confined to high schools. — Lomn 15:39, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

You might also want List of attacks related to post-secondary schools, which lists two attacks in the United States in 2012 (one of which was the Oikos University shooting in April). Hut 8.5 17:08, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

If you "do not intend to start debate here", you would perhaps be more believable if you had not said "i personally think its an over reaction". -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 17:19, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Just for the record, I don't think there is any evidence of Obama "planning to blame video games". This might be an unfortunate reference to his gun control plan including funding and removing legal restrictions for research into all possible causes of violence, which includes video games. 46.30.55.66 (talk) 17:32, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

I must agree to your replies that operhaps some of my personal beliefs could have been omitted. I wrote a little hurriedly, and i apologize for this. However, i would like to respond to the reply of Lomn. I do recall Virginia Tech, now that you mention it. However, looking at the list of shootings you have supplied, i had no idea that so many shootings occurred at the university level. Is this a matter of me being ill informed and not keeping in touch with the news as i ought to, or is there perhaps a reason why high school shootings seem to show up all day on tv when they happen, and there seems to be less mention or coverage on university shootings?

137.81.118.126 (talk) 18:08, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Without a detailed review, my main thought is that the combination of guns and minors will draw additional media attention -- "someone fired a gun at a middle school" is a bigger story, in terms of media coverage, than "someone fired a gun at a grocery store". See, for example, Slate's ongoing "how many people have been shot since Newtown" piece, which, among other things, highlights just how many gun deaths don't make national news. My guess is that non-mass shootings at the university level (where few if any involved are minors) lands closer to "grocery store" than "middle school" on the media coverage scale. In terms of preparedness, though, they're all "active shooter" scenarios, and the same rules for "what do you do if you hear gunfire?" will apply. — Lomn 19:03, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

This evidence confirms my suspicion. Thank you everyone for helping me to understand the reality of the situation, it allows me to appreciate these upcoming drills a lot more. Honestly when i started this post i felt they were vastly an unfounded waste of time... and now i can see that it isn't so much so. Thanks again and have a good day!

137.81.118.126 (talk) 19:25, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Stridulum?

What is the name of that gizmo that ancient peoples used to clean themselves with? I believe the romans rubbed olive oil into their skin and used a bladed gadget to scrape the oil (and therefore, the dirt) off. I thought it was called a "stridulum" - but we have no mention of such things here on Wikipedia and Google doesn't find anything obvious. SteveBaker (talk) 17:15, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

It's a strigil. (I googled for "skin oil scraper".) Looie496 (talk) 17:38, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Argh! I was so close! (A stridulum turns out to be the scrapers that grasshoppers have on their legs to make their characteristic sounds).

Many thanks!

SteveBaker (talk) 17:57, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

'Synchronous Conferencing'

Or online chat groups in more common terms. I want to set one up so members of my club can talk to each other easier, rather than sending individual emails, but I don't know where would be best to go. I have heard good things about these IRC programs, but when I tried myself, I found it difficult and complicated to get set up and to use. I want something simple, free, and easy for anyone (or at least those invited in) to join, but yet also something that looks reasonably nice and professional unlike some I have seen that are bright and cluttered and childish in appearance. I've tried searching on this site and elsewhere, but I can't seem to find anything I want, so I thought I might get further asking other people who may have experience with some nice websites or services.

many thanks,

79.66.102.111 (talk) 18:32, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Skype is free (for calls to other Skype users), easy, and allows group calls of up to 25 people simultaneously. See [23]. --Jayron32 19:54, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

FAA EXAM

What are the basic requirments to right FAA exam? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jissel (talk • contribs) 19:02, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Which FAA? Which exam? Dismas|^(talk) 19:40, 7 February 2013 (UTC)