Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement

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Appeals and administrator modifications of contentious topics restrictions

The Arbitration Committee procedures relating to modifications of contentious topic restrictions state the following:

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The appeal process has three possible stages. An editor appealing a restriction may:

ask the administrator who first made the contentious topic restrictions (the "enforcing administrator") to reconsider their original decision;
request review at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") or at the administrators' noticeboard ("AN"); and
submit a request for amendment ("ARCA"). If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by email.

Appeals submitted at AE or AN must be submitted using the applicable template.

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Changing or revoking a contentious topic restriction

An administrator may only modify or revoke a contentious topic restriction if a formal appeal is successful or if one of the following exceptions applies:

The administrator who originally imposed the contentious topic restriction (the "enforcing administrator") affirmatively consents to the change,^[a] or is no longer an administrator;^[b] or
The contentious topic restriction was imposed (or last renewed) more than a year ago and:
- the restriction was imposed by a single administrator, or
- the restriction was an indefinite block.

A formal appeal is successful only if one of the following agrees with revoking or changing the contentious topic restriction:

a clear consensus of uninvolved administrators at AE,
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a majority of the Arbitration Committee, acting through a motion at ARCA.

Any administrator who revokes or changes a contentious topic restriction out of process (i.e. without the above conditions being met) may, at the discretion of the Arbitration Committee, be desysopped.

Standard of review
On community review

Uninvolved administrators at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") and uninvolved editors at the administrators' noticeboard ("AN") should revoke or modify a contentious topic restriction on appeal if:

the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process),
the action was not reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption when first imposed, or
the action is no longer reasonably necessary to prevent damage or disruption.

On Arbitration Committee review

Arbitrators hearing an appeal at a request for amendment ("ARCA") will generally overturn a contentious topic restriction only if:

the action was inconsistent with the contentious topics procedure or applicable policy (i.e. the action was out of process),
the action represents an unreasonable exercise of administrative enforcement discretion, or
compelling circumstances warrant the full Committee's action.

^ The administrator may indicate consent at any time before, during, or after imposition of the restriction.
^ This criterion does not apply if the original action was imposed as a result of rough consensus at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard, as there would be no single enforcing administrator.

Appeals and administrator modifications of non-contentious topics sanctions

The Arbitration Committee procedures relating to modifications and appeals state:

Appeals by sanctioned editors

Appeals may be made only by the editor under sanction and only for a currently active sanction. Requests for modification of page restrictions may be made by any editor. The process has three possible stages (see "Important notes" below). The editor may:

ask the enforcing administrator to reconsider their original decision;
request review at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard ("AE") or at the administrators’ noticeboard ("AN"); and
submit a request for amendment at the amendment requests page ("ARCA"). If the editor is blocked, the appeal may be made by email through Special:EmailUser/Arbitration Committee (or, if email access is revoked, to arbcom-enwikimedia.org).

Modifications by administrators

No administrator may modify or remove a sanction placed by another administrator without:

the explicit prior affirmative consent of the enforcing administrator; or
prior affirmative agreement for the modification at (a) AE or (b) AN or (c) ARCA (see "Important notes" below).

Administrators modifying sanctions out of process may at the discretion of the committee be desysopped.

Nothing in this section prevents an administrator from replacing an existing sanction issued by another administrator with a new sanction if fresh misconduct has taken place after the existing sanction was applied.

Administrators are free to modify sanctions placed by former administrators – that is, editors who do not have the administrator permission enabled (due to a temporary or permanent relinquishment or desysop) – without regard to the requirements of this section. If an administrator modifies a sanction placed by a former administrator, the administrator who made the modification becomes the "enforcing administrator". If a former administrator regains the tools, the provisions of this section again apply to their unmodified enforcement actions.

Important notes:

For a request to succeed, either

(i) the clear and substantial consensus of (a) uninvolved administrators at AE or (b) uninvolved editors at AN or

(ii) a passing motion of arbitrators at ARCA

is required. If consensus at AE or AN is unclear, the status quo prevails.

While asking the enforcing administrator and seeking reviews at AN or AE are not mandatory prior to seeking a decision from the committee, once the committee has reviewed a request, further substantive review at any forum is barred. The sole exception is editors under an active sanction who may still request an easing or removal of the sanction on the grounds that said sanction is no longer needed, but such requests may only be made once every six months, or whatever longer period the committee may specify.
These provisions apply only to contentious topic restrictions placed by administrators and to blocks placed by administrators to enforce arbitration case decisions. They do not apply to sanctions directly authorized by the committee, and enacted either by arbitrators or by arbitration clerks, or to special functionary blocks of whatever nature.
All actions designated as arbitration enforcement actions, including those alleged to be out of process or against existing policy, must first be appealed following arbitration enforcement procedures to establish if such enforcement is inappropriate before the action may be reversed or formally discussed at another venue.

Information for administrators processing requests

Thank you for participating in this area. AE works best if there are a variety of admins bringing their expertise to each case. There is no expectation to comment on every case, and the Arbitration Committee (ArbCom) thanks all admins for whatever time they can give.

A couple of reminders:

Before commenting, please familiarise yourself with the referenced ArbCom case. Please also read all the evidence (including diffs) presented in the AE request.
When a request widens to include editors beyond the initial request, these editors must be notified and the notifications recorded in the same way as for the initial editor against whom sanctions were requested. Where some part of the outcome is clear, a partial close may be implemented and noted as "Result concerning X".
Enforcement measures in arbitration cases should be construed liberally to protect Wikipedia and keep it running efficiently. Some of the behaviour described in an enforcement request might not be restricted by ArbCom. However, it may violate other Wikipedia policies and guidelines; you may use administrative discretion to resolve it.
More than one side in a dispute may have ArbCom conduct rulings applicable to them. Please ensure these are investigated.

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Marcelus

Marcelus's AE block replaced with indefinite 0RR per the consensus of uninvolved admins. Piotrus has also volunteered to mentor Marcelus which was agreed between them on Marcelus's talk page. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 05:49, 27 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Marcelus

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Prodraxis (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 05:09, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Marcelus (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: WP:DIGWUREN WP:CTOP WP:1RR [1]

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

[2] Marcelus reverts Cukrakalnis' removal of Povilas Plechavicius's Polish name (Cukrakalnis' edit: [3])
[4] Marcelus' second revert within 24hrs following Cukrakalnis' revert of Marcelus (Cukrakalnis' edit: [5])

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

[6] Previous AE, recieved a 0RR
[7] Successful 0RR appeal, which got downgraded to 1RR

If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)

[8]

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

The 0rr was previously downgraded to a 1rr before following a successful AN appeal [9]. I remember supporting his 0rr appeal as he previously seemed to understand the disruption caused by his editwarring in the past. I ran into him again while commenting on some WP:RM's (namely [10]), noticed his contributions and saw what looks like a 1rr evasion to me.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

[11]

Additional statements by Prodraxis

I have no comment regarding the removal of the content itself per se, but am rather more concerned about the potential breach of the 1RR here. Also, regarding the previous report - at the time, I was less mature and less experienced and I am sorry for all disruption caused by said report, and it was made in haste without considering the full background of the situation. I'm not siding with anyone here, just that Marcelus may have broken his 1RR recently. As long as Marcelus self reverts and discusses on a Talk page or something further regarding the content without any more reverts I am OK for letting go without sanctions this time. #prodraxis ^connect 14:31, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Ostalgia Yeah, a 2 way IBAN seems pretty reasonable here due to a past history of Cukrakalnis and Marcelus edit warring with each other, per both the diffs Cukrakalnis provided of Marcelus breaking his 1RR on Landsberg family and per those two ANEW reports which got both parties blocked before for edit warring [12] [13]. I think that Cukrakalnis getting some sort of revert restriction or turning Marcelus' 1RR to a 0RR again might also be a good idea due to the history of editwarring. #prodraxis ^connect 00:59, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Tamzin @Piotrus The mentorship proposal seems OK with me. As long as Marcelus stops edit warring everything else is fine. #prodraxis ^connect 00:06, 21 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion concerning Marcelus

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Marcelus

I am sorry that my edits were interpreted by Prodraxis as a violation of the rule, at the time of making them I had no such realization.

The first edition was simply a restoration of the well-sourced content ([14]) removed by Cukrakalnis. I immediately started a discussion about it on the C discussion page ([15]), since I didn't want it to turn into edit waring. Also, I immediately added a new source ([16]), since C had objections to one of the original two (that's why I didn't consider it revert). Then I added some more new content ([17]). C then removed the mention of the Polish name again, but giving again as the reason his objections to only one source - Tomaszewski 1999 ([18]). This seemed to me to be wrong and against the rules, so I restored the Polish name again with three sources, but did not restore the information that only Tomaszewski 1999 (objected by C) confirmed, that is, regarding the household language ([19]).

FYI: previous report on me by Prodraxis. Marcelus (talk) 08:11, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Cukrakalnis: The things you say about sources used by me do not prove that they are unreliable, but only that there is a difference between them and other sources. Besides, in many places this difference is non-existent: native language is not the same as the household language, identity can be mixed (not surprising in this region), his wife's identity poses difficulties, etc. Two things can be true at the same time. This is not the place to discuss sources and content, I'm just showing that your comments are largely unfounded, and the changes I've made do not cause conflict and are not based on unreliable sources.

As for the Landsbergs: why did you change these names without giving new sources or at least a reason? It looks like disruptive editing. Marcelus (talk) 15:08, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Cukrakalnis

The edits by Marcelus were not at all well-sourced, which is why I removed them in the first place. As I made clear in my edits [20], [21], the sources used by Marcelus for the person's Polish name are not at all accurate or reliable when describing his private life, because they get:

1. the person's ethnicity wrong,

2. his native language wrong,

3. his wife's name wrong,

4. his wife's ethnicity wrong.

A Polish name does not belong in Plechavičius' article any more than the translation of his name in all of the other languages he knew (Latvian, Russian, German, French, etc.), but including all of them would be absurd considering that the person was a Lithuanian, so, obviously only his Lithuanian name should be there.

This is also not the first time that Marcelus has broken the 1RR since he was allowed to revert once after the appeal. He reverted twice in the article Landsberg family within the span of 24 hours: 22:41, 5 September 2023, 21:20, 6 September 2023.

Another possible case was in the article Mikołaj "the Red" Radziwiłł, where Marcelus reverted the same edit outside the span of 24 hours: 18:24, 19 August 2023, 05:55, 24 August 2023. I leave it up to the reader to decide whether this was an attempt to evade the 1RR.--Cukrakalnis (talk) 11:18, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

PS: it is not true that I objected only to one of sources given by Marcelus, because certainly more than one had mistakes - T 1999 said his wife was Polish and gave the wrong name - which ruins its credibility for Plechavičius' private life; the P 2003 source called Plechavičius a "Polish aristocrat" when he wasn't - he had noble roots, but not in the Polish, but Lithuanian/Samogitian nobility, and was the son of a Lithuanian farmer. Either way, such flagrant mistakes discredit the use of such sources. Cukrakalnis (talk) 11:57, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Ostalgia

I think the sanction applied by Tamzin is proportional to the infraction, and just want to point out that this is the nth case involving Marcelus and Cukrakalnis. Given the huge overlap between Lithuanian and Polish history, and the evident bad blood between them, perhaps a 2-way IBAN could help prevent further disruption. Ostalgia (talk) 20:47, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Piotrus

As noted, I'd be happy to mentor Marcelus by answering any and all qurries they have and/or offering mediation if discussions gets heated and I am informed of the situation (I am also relatively familiar with the topic area). That said, while I am active and can answer wiki queries within a day or so, there's not much I can do after the revert except explain why it was a bad idea :P That said, I think 0RR is unfeasible and if it is applied, I'd advise Marcelus to not edit at all. Seriously, 0RR is just asking to be banned later or abstain from editing. The fact that Marcelus survived 0RR once alraedy should be enough to give him more ability to edit regularly, under 1RR+mentorship. On a side note, INHO 1RR is also better for seeing how an editor behaves, since it offers a bit of a rope that generally should not be used. Perhaps a compromise might be 0RR for the next month, then 1RR for the next few months (indef until an appeal here at 6-12 month mark?). And my early mentor advice to Marcelus would be: 1) don't revert anything without asking me first and 2) try to stay away from any controversies in the Polish-Lithuanian topics, or any controversies in general, as it is too easy to make a bad edit in such articles. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:40, 21 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Marcelus

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

I accepted the downgrade to 1RR previously. This is a blatant violation, and Marcelus' comment above shows no mitigation, just an acknowledgment that he did it, doesn't see it as a violation, and thinks it was Cukrakalnis' edits that were "against the rules". I have blocked for 2 months, on the lower end of the escalating block pattern for someone whose previous EW blocks were for 2 weeks and 1 month. I see this as the minimum appropriate sanction here, though, and would like to hear from others as to whether something more is warranted. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 17:28, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm disappointed. I thought Marcelus was making progress and I was happy to see that the restriction I imposed was lessened. As the downgraded restriction was violated but there were few problems before the downgrade, I would re-impose the 0RR. I think Marcelus still has much to offer the topic; he just needs to lay off the undo button. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:38, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I supported the downgrade to 1RR, and agree with HJ here. Courcelles (talk) 12:04, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding comments on User talk:Marcelus, I am not necessarily opposed to reducing to 1 month in exchange for agreement to mentorship by Piotrus (the "hard" kind of mentorship, where if Piotrus says not to do something, you listen), but would like to hear HJ Mitchell and Courcelles' (and anyone else') thoughts. This is separate from the matter of reinstating the 0RR, which I'm inclined to support. Marcelus, regarding your email about Cukrakalnis, you're welcome to post those thoughts on-wiki, but I otherwise have nothing to say. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 19:58, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Tamzin has Piotrus offered this mentorship? If so can I get a link for it? Barkeep49 (talk) 20:06, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Barkeep49: The usertalk I linked. Specifically User talk:Marcelus § September 2023. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 20:13, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'd be willing to entertain the idea of mentorship. I think Marcelus has plenty to offer; it's his reverting that keeps getting him into trouble. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:29, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
If @Piotrus is willing to commit the time, I’d be fine with an early unblock (even now, no need to wait a month) and 0RR. Courcelles (talk) 22:07, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Piotrus is a very experienced editor, including specifically in this area. If he's willing to do that, I'm willing to let him try. I still think reimposition of the 0RR, at least for an initial period, would be necessary, but maybe with a shorter period than the standard 6 months before that can be reexamined. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 06:10, 21 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm supportive of an unblock and 0RR restriction: if Marcelus thinks something should be reverted, they can open a talk page discussion about it and if there is consensus someone can do it for them. I disagree with Piotrus's assertion above that "0RR is just asking to be banned later or abstain from editing." 0RR doesn't mean that information can't be added or changed, it just means that others' edits cannot be unilaterally removed with one easy click of the undo button. With 0RR and mentorship by Piotrus, I think Marcelus can learn what is acceptable to remove from articles, and when discussions need to be opened on the talk page. I strongly recommend that Marcelus stay away from the articles that caused the controversies, at least for a couple of weeks or months. There are 6.7 million articles on English Wikipedia, surely there are articles outside this topic area that interest them. Z1720 (talk) 16:19, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Trakking

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Trakking

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: FormalDude (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 19:38, 16 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Trakking (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/American politics 2

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

11:20, 29 March 2023 (UTC) Accusing editors who disagree with them of being "left-wing activists" at Talk:Conservatism.
16:57, 30 April 2023 (UTC) Edit-warring at Template:Fascism sidebar.
17:06, 30 April 2023 (UTC) Edit-warring at Template:Fascism sidebar.
18:18, 30 April 2023 (UTC) Edit-warring at Template:Fascism sidebar.
18:05, 4 August 2023 (UTC) Edit-warring at Template:Fascism sidebar.
22:12, 12 September 2023 (UTC) Edit-warring at Template:Fascism sidebar.
05:27, 13 September 2023 (UTC) Edit-warring at Template:Fascism sidebar.
08:55, 16 September 2023 (UTC) Trakking removes longstanding content from the lead section of PragerU without discussion.
09:06, 16 September 2023 (UTC) Edit-warring over the same content at PragerU.
13:35, 16 September 2023 (UTC) Edit-warring over the same content at PragerU.
13:54, 16 September 2023 (UTC) Canvassing someone to the discussion about their editing warring at PragerU in a clear attempt to influence the outcome of the discussion, and calling another editor an "angry leftist activist".[reply]
16:47, 16 September 2023 (UTC) Trakking claims there's "nothing to discuss" regarding their edits to PragerU and says that the "fact-check" done by them and the editor they canvassed is enough to have their edits restored.
18:52, 16 September 2023 (UTC) Continued edit-warring at PragerU.

If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)

Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, first on 15 January 2023 and again on 29 March 2023 (see the system log linked to above).

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

This is not all inclusive, there is likely other problematic behavior exhibited by this editor, but I've already spent a lot of time putting this together to show Trakking's consistent problems with incivility and edit-warring. They were warned about calling editors they disagree with "left-wing activists" on 29 March 2023. Their talk page shows at least six warnings for edit warring, including some by admins that could be considered a final warning. ––FormalDude (talk) 19:38, 16 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Trakking: None of these are minor edits, though you have incorrectly marked many of them as minor despite being warned not to in August 2022. ––FormalDude (talk) 21:10, 16 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Springee: Are you calling me "ForumDude" as some sort of insult? ––FormalDude (talk) 22:18, 16 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Additional diffs found:

14. 17:20, 19 February 2023 (UTC) Referring to other editors as "You and your comrade".

15. 14:47, 21 February 2023 (UTC) Calling an editor "the fascist thought police".

16. 14:37, 30 March 2023 (UTC) Again accusing editors who disagree with them of being "left-wingers" at Talk:Conservatism.

––FormalDude (talk) 23:13, 16 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It appears Trakking has implied here that TrangaBellam is "the devil". ––FormalDude (talk) 16:43, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

[22]

Discussion concerning Trakking

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Trakking

This only concerns some minor edits—nothing serious.

Yes, I called a guy a leftist activist once. Why? Because he reverted different people's edits with phrases like "another rightist who tries to change this part of the article". Fun fact: I have had friendly and fruitful discussions with this guy afterwards. I consider him a valuable partner on Wikipedia.

Two of my reverts at the template were because users mistook my edit for another edit, which they wanted to revert. One of the users apologized for his mistake while the other one has remained silent without reverting again.

Someone insinuated today that I may have canvassed a guy, but this is a false accusation, because if you follow the history, I was reverting this guy's edits on another page. He is NOT my friend.

I only made two reverts in the PragerU article. This edit was my own addition of information, which is not considered a revert. There were other users edit-warring on that article as well, but I promise to stay off it henceforth.

Andrevan: I have only listened to a few short videos from PragerU and it was years ago. I am not a fan, I believe their material is a bit silly and oversimplified. I was trying to reach neutrality on Wikipedia. Half the introduction consisted of criticism, which poorly reflected the article in its entirety. Then I agreed to keep the criticism, given that we fixed the factual errors contained within it. The discussion at Talk became quite heated, but I kept my cool. Trakking (talk) 22:40, 16 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Andrevan: I did not call any user a leftist activist; I referred to the critics cited in the article, many of which were leftist activists. It is understandable that they are critical, and it ought to be included in the article, but it should not cover half the introduction. As per Wikipedia/Manual of Style/Lead section, the introduction should ”establish context, explain why the topic is notable, and summarize the most important points”. Trakking (talk) 22:53, 16 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Dlthewave: I provide a lot of quality edits to Wikipedia, I receive many thanks, I have many polite discussions, I am a teacher in real life etc. Last time someone accused me of something (turned out they mistook me for another user), I read answers from random people I had never seen before, saying, ”Trakking is a trusted user.” The issues here are minor, as Springee stated. With all the craziness going on at Wikipedia—vandalism, threats etc.—this is nothing. You are wasting your time. But I promise I will never enter an edit war again. Trakking (talk) 23:20, 16 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Just wanted to point out as well, for any neutral observer, that FormalDude has been canvassing people to come here in the Talk for PragerU, knowing that they were anti-PragerU and/or opponents of me in the debate. The only neutral person here is Springee. Trakking (talk) 07:19, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@TrangaBellam: That is disgusting of you. I am a CATHOLIC and a LIBERTARIAN—which places me at the very opposite of national socialism. In every discussion on national socialism, I quoted scholar Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn as one of my intellectual heroes—a Catholic libertarian who wrote volominous books against the ideology of contemporary national socialism. Please apologize for your terrible comment and remove it. Trakking (talk) 16:01, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Springee

This seems premature. I think FormalDude is jumping the gun on this complaint. While they provided a long list of diffs, about half are from quite some time back. They make it look like Trakking has obviously violated 3RR but looking at the edit history I'm not seeing that. I see 1 original edit (08:55am) and then 3 other good faith attempts at alternative compromise wording. Yeah, it probably would have been better to go to the talk page after the first compromise edit was reverted but this isn't a simple case of someone making a BOLD edit then restoring it 3 times. The talk page comment is unadvisable since it impugns the motives of other editors however, I do think some of the talk page comments here [[23]] and revert comment like, " when Republicans became anti-truth, truth became "leftist"", while not directly attacking any editor, are not exactly bringing the temperature down either. Honestly, I think a quick close with some trout small trout for Trakking for the talk page comment and additional trouting for FormalDude bringing such a minor issue to these boards. Disclaimer: Involved in the general topic but not the specific discussion in question) Springee (talk) 22:13, 16 September 2023 (UTC) @FormalDude: also correcting accidental "ForumDude" to "FormalDude" with apologies Springee (talk) 22:23, 16 September 2023 (UTC) [reply]

Andrevan your reply is unreasonable and given the total lack of justification it's borderline disruptive. Springee (talk) 22:24, 16 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Andrevan, the problem is you haven't shown what you are claiming and certainly demanding a citeban would require some really strong evidence of wrong doing which hasn't been shown here. Even the TE claim is weak. Springee (talk) 22:39, 16 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Z1720, I think in a case like this, where non-bright line edit warring is an issue, a 1RR is a very good option as it allows the editor to express their views without disruption to the article space. An andmin once told me that they always operated as if they were subject to a 1RR limit as it makes them a better editor. In my experience they are correct as it forces you to make your case vs thinking you can "win" an edit war. That said, is a "1RR-no time limit" a reasonable fix? I can see the concern with 1RR repeating every 24hr. However, a 1RR with no time limit opens the editor up to good faith violations that may be held against them. Consider a case where the editor makes a change to the second sentence of a paragraph. The change is reverted. Does that mean they can't edit that sentence two years later? Perhaps a 1RR with a clear warning to not even give the appearance of skirting the 24hr limit? Springee (talk) 16:34, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by uninvolved Andrevan

Clear siteban is merited. Andre🚐 22:18, 16 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Springee, I do not believe that Wikipedia should be allowing WP:TE and WP:RGW to whitewash right-wing propaganda like PragerU. This is WP:NOTHERE, a standard admin block. Andre🚐 22:26, 16 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
[24] This user is calling other users a leftist activist in diffs provided by FormalDude today. Andre🚐 22:45, 16 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
User diff[25] user also making changes to the Nazism article to make it seem less like a far-right ideology. Andre🚐 22:55, 16 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
HJ Mitchell's proposed sanction is fair. Thebigulyaliens' aspersions are unwarranted. Andre🚐 02:41, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Dlthewave

I'm active at the PragerU article but uninvolved in the current discussion. Diff #8 popped up on my watchlist and raised my eyebrows - It's not appropriate to remove all mention of criticism from the lead with some vague handwave about "leftist criticism". Diff #9 is an immediate reinstatement of the same content, 9 minutes later, without discussion. This was bright-line edit warring.

Dismissing editors in the discussion as "left-wing activists" and pinging a different set of editors (diff #1) is also entirely inappropriate, and they pull the same stunt again in Diff #11. The fact that these edits span 6 months is not a mitigating factor, rather it shows that they have not learned their lesson despite having received a number of talk page warnings about edit warring and civility during that time. It's clear that folks have had enough of this incivility and tendentiuous editing and it's time for soemthing stronger than a slap on the wrist. –dlthewave ☎ 23:03, 16 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Springee, these two edits [26][27] are removing the same content 9 minutes apart with no attempt to discuss. Is that not edit warring? –dlthewave ☎ 23:05, 16 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think that a logged warning and possibly 1RR would be sufficient here. Discretionary sanctions allow any uninvolved admin to give such a warning/restriction as they see fit, so there’s really no need to drag this out any further. –dlthewave ☎ 17:12, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by DanielRigal

As far as I can tell, Trakking first appeared on my radar back in December 2022. It might seem odd to bring up behaviour from so long ago but I think it is relevant here because it is so similar to the much more recent behaviour at PragerU (in which I am involved).

Trakking made two edits to Nazism which were both unmerited removal of sourced content, seemingly for no better reason than that Trakking disagreed with what was being said. First removing the referenced description of Nazism as "far-right" (and marking the edit minor), despite this being covered in the FAQ, and then yoinking out an entire paragraph with an edit summary that confirms a pretty extreme POV. I reverted those edits and put a fairly gentle level 2 warning on Trakking's User Talk page and got accused of trolling for my trouble. The drama then shifted to the Talk page where Trakking insulted the authors of the content accusing them of dishonesty and Stalinism and calling the paragraph "insidious". The whole wretched saga is archived here.

This establishes the pattern of POV editing that we see, on and off, to this day. The current dispute over on PragerU is similar in many ways. Trakking yoinked a chunk of text, with a dubious edit summary, and got into a small edit war, only taking to the Talk page when somebody else started a thread. A pattern of removing content for POV reasons and then not respecting consensus is well established. When things did not go Trakking's way they canvassed AbiquiúBoy into joining the fray. AbiquiúBoy is a new user who could easily have stepped on a rake editing such an article! Fortunately, AbiquiúBoy didn't step on any rakes and focused instead on trying to improve the chunk that Trakking had tried to remove. I'm not happy about the canvassing but I don't think that AbiquiúBoy has done anything wrong and, even if he had, that wouldn't entirely be his fault even if a more experienced user would probably have known to be a bit more cautious about being canvassed.

So, what should we do here? I don't think we need a siteban but we do need to do something. It is clear that Trakking has a POV that they can't or won't let go of. Maybe a topic ban from post-1945 US politics (broadly construed) and maybe from other global far-right related topics would make sense? --DanielRigal (talk) 23:59, 16 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I really don't think that FormalDude posting a short, neutral notice about this case on Talk:PragerU, a shared place that is directly relevant to the case, constitutes canvassing. It wasn't an attempt to bring in specific individuals or to tilt the scales. It wouldn't have prompted me to dig into Trakking's behaviour if Trakking wasn't already vaguely on my radar due to previous behaviour. It is in no way comparable to the canvassing that Trakking did and for Trakking to bring it up here (see above) and use it to question almost everybody's impartiality seems like an attempt to draw a false equivalence. Also, the way Trakking assumes that readers of Talk:PragerU are "anti-PragerU and/or opponents of me in the debate" shows an inability to WP:AGF and a general WP:BATTLEGROUND mentality, with maybe a bit of WP:OWN sprinkled in. This harks back to the false accusation of "trolling" back in December and suggests that Trakking is still incapable of collaborative editing on sensitive topics. --DanielRigal (talk) 12:57, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by AbiquiúBoy

[Answering FormalDude’s comment to Springee] It was a mistake lad, why assume bad faith? AbiquiúBoy (talk) 09:04, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Completely erroneous citing of WP:NONAZIS

calling someone a Nazi is a very serious claim and your rather callous manner of doing so is highly problematic.

@Trakking is NOT a Nazi or anything close whatsoever and it's very bizarre that @TrangaBellam has tried to use such this rationale with no actual explanation of how it applies here. AbiquiúBoy (talk) 15:29, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by TrangaBellam

Siteban is merited - WP:NONAZIS. TrangaBellam (talk) 15:20, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

No, being an adherent of Christianity (or any damn religion) does not automatically preclude anyone from being a Nazi or espousing views that are sympathetic/whitewashing of Nazism and similar fascist ideologies. I have no interest in knowing who are your intellectual heroes - your edits speak for yourself. TrangaBellam (talk) 16:21, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Andreas

I would recommend a quick re-read of Wikipedia:Comment on content, not on the contributor#What is considered to be a personal attack? – along with some reflection on how sticking to the advice given there might help Wikipedia and make life easier for all the individuals involved, especially when they have different views. --Andreas JN 466 19:30, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Generalrelative

Speaking as one of the editors who was called a "left-wing activist" on article talk by Trakking, I am most certainly involved here. A few points:

I will reiterate what I said on their user talk page, that the kind of ad hominem comment of which Trakking appears to make common practice is very clearly at odds with the principle of "comment on content, not contributors." I see also that their response to my post was essentially to dismiss this principle: Well, you were actively pushing for a left-wing perspective, so I characterized you as left-wing activists. That's certainly not a helpful attitude, and not conducive to long-term success on a project where we must collaborate with folks who fall along a wide spectrum of perspectives. Trakking, if I may address you directly: it doesn't matter what you believe about me or anyone else. You're not permitted to say that here. WP:CIVILITY is a core principle for a reason. We need to be able to collaborate across differences. From my point of view, and apparently from the point of view of most editors here, many of the things you consider to be "left-wing perspectives" are just eminently mainstream ideas. But you've never seen me calling you a "right-wing activist" on article talk (nor have I accused you of showing fascist tendencies as you once did to me). That's because I respect the rules that allow this project to function. Such allegations –– which are indeed serious –– need to be reserved for noticeboards like this one.
I would suggest to TrangaBellam that leaping to WP:NONAZIS in the case of Trakking is not appropriate either. I say this as someone who's spent a lot of my time on Wikipedia dealing with actual Nazis in the race & intelligence topic area. Trakking certainly has shown that they have unorthodox ideas about what the word "Nazi" means (they've even demonstrated that above by implying that one cannot be a Catholic or libertarian and also a Nazi, though one need only point to prominent cases like Carl Schmitt or certain fans of Ron Paul to falsify such an outlandish claim). But Trakking displaying a pattern of POV-pushing against consensus to portray Nazism as a form of socialism does not make them a Nazi. It's certainly disruptive, but far less severe. They will, after all, not be successful.
If anyone is interested in my 2¢ here, I would suggest that Trakking is due for a logged warning to avoid edit warring and ad hominem remarks. The POV-pushing can and is being dealt with through the normal consensus process. If they still cannot abide by p&g, then a t-ban would be the logical next step. I do not think we're at the point where a site ban is called for.

Cheers, Generalrelative (talk) 20:53, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Willbb234: No, the dispute at Template:Fascism sidebar was indeed a case of POV-pushing against well-established consensus. See this discussion and refer to the FAQ here. Generalrelative (talk) 23:02, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Willbb234

Regarding the dispute over Template:Fascism sidebar, it does not appear that this was motivated by a particular POV. It seems like it was a bad case of edit warring and should be treated as such; from what I understand, it centred around the question of how to express Nazism in the sidebar.

I agree to an extent with Trakking over the dispute at PragerU. It seems like the critisicm section in the lede might be a little off balance when summarising what is in the body. Still, the paragraph should not be deleted in whole and a different approach should have been taken. It doesn't seem as if this was motivated by a particular POV and instead the issue should rather be what can be done to ensure that edit warring of this nature does not happen again. I would also note that of the three parties mainly involved in the initial part of the relevant talk page discussion, one party based their argument on their POV, another based it on some vague principles relating to how the content had "been in the article for several months" and "that starting such a discussion would be time-wasting", while Trakking based their argument on the manual of style. Out of these three parties, Trakking clearly took the best approach on the talk page. Willbb234 22:03, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Thebiguglyalien

Uninvolved except for previous interactions with these editors, but sometimes the quiet part needs to be said loud. An editor is making edits that clearly have a right-wing lean to them. FormalDude, Andrevan, Dlthewave, and TrangaBellam all came in swinging. Springee immediately came to the editor's defense. I could have told you all of that without even opening the discussion. These editors, virtually without fail, consistently advocate a specific ideological position regardless of the merits of an argument. Trakking is just the latest subject of this proxy war. Editors like this are a far bigger timesink than editors like Trakking. At what point does this become sanctionable tendentious editing? Thebiguglyalien (talk) 15:45, 19 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

After a brief discussion with one of the involved parties, I'm choosing to strike some of the more specific comments here. Reading them back, they do look like strong accusations. There is a broader problem of which these disputes are just a symptom, and it does need to be solved. But I have no grounds to say that any of these specific editors are at fault just because they're the ones who showed up to this specific dispute. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 02:25, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Beyond My Ken

Recently, I was wondering why Nazism and fascism have never been considered to be a contentious topic or, formerly, a candidate for discretionary sanctions. Given stuff like this, I think that would be a reasonable move. Beyond My Ken (talk) 23:41, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Result concerning Trakking

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

I'm not at the point of a permaban. Yet. A topic ban would be functionally the same. But the diffs above certainly show a concerning pattern of conduct. I'm contemplating a short-to-medium-term site ban between a week and a month, combined with a revert restriction and a very strong logged warning about discussion style. I expect that will go one of two ways. Hopefully Trakking will take the hint that trying to brute force your preferred version through edit warring and insults is not the way Wikipedia works. If not, we've simply postponed the inevitable permaban. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:31, 17 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I don't think we're at permaban stage either yet. However, someone who makes this edit (and especially with that edit-summary) lacks the competence to be editing hot-button political articles. Black Kite (talk) 12:11, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I’m uncomfortable with the unspoken idea that seems to set in sometimes that where a topic ban would be “equal to a site ban” due to an editor’s focused activity on a topic that the bar to a topic ban should be higher. I’m not sure we have a great option available, as AP2 wouldn’t prevent the edit highlighted by Black Kite. Courcelles (talk) 12:44, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Courcelles I'm not necessarily suggesting this (I don't intend to formally endorse or oppose any sanction here), but under Wikipedia:Contentious topics § Contentious topic restrictions, isn't AE allowed to TBAN from beyond the scope of existing CTOPs? any other reasonable measures that are necessary and proportionate for the smooth running of the project. So a TBAN from, say, right-wing politics broadly construed, would be within our authority, if necessary and proportionate (I think?). -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 20:20, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe I'm just a bleeding-heart liberal but I'm inclined to give someone just a little bit of rope in a situation like this. If their opponents' assumptions that they have no interest or ability to contribute positively are correct, that will soon become clear. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:34, 20 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm struggling to see how Trakking's edits and the articles of concern fall under WP:ARBAP, but I am concerned about Trakking's edits and don't want to Wikilawyer this point. If I'm missing something, feel free to leave a message on my talk page as this would be the wrong place to discuss if these constitute AP2 (in my opinion).

I see repeated instances that Trakking removed both sourced information and lede text added after consensus was reached. When Trakking's edits were reverted, Trakking removed the text again without obtaining consensus on the talk page. I would like to remind Trakking that there are several dispute mechanisms, including WP:RfC, where they can ask the wider community their opinions on the matter.

I'm not in favour of a permaban at this time. I think the best solution is a 1RR for Trakking on all fascism-related articles, broadly construed, with the 1RR extended in perpetuity for their edits (so if they remove content and it is reverted, they cannot wait a couple months and then remove the same content again, as seen in Template:Fascism and PragerU). I would also be amenable to a topic ban of Fascism-related articles (although allow them to propose changes on the talk page) but I can also see HJ Mitchell's point above that it might not be necessary now, per WP:ROPE, and don't feel strongly either way the inclusion of this further restriction. Z1720 (talk) 00:36, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Springee: The "in perpetuity" is trying to send a clear signal to Trakking that they cannot keep trying to make the same changes to an article or template several weeks or months later. In your example, this would be considered a "grey-zone" and admin/editors have to evaluate the edit. If Trakking is trying to add new information, or copyediting the text that doesn't change the meaning, then additional sanctions would not be required as disruption is not taking place. If they are trying to change or delete the same information in the same way as the last reversion, as observed at PragerU and Template:Fascism, then I would support additional sanctions. Concerned editors can post here and admin will determine if it rises to the level of additional sanctions. Z1720 (talk) 16:57, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not generally in favor of time-limited sanctions, and I don't see an exception for that here, so I would not be in favor of a short-term topic or site ban. I do think a 1RR restriction (indefinitely, with the normal appeals process), combined with a logged warning for personal attacks and personalizing disputes, would be a place to start. Either that will suffice to get the point across and stop the disruption (which is, of course, always the outcome I'd hope for), or it doesn't, and then we'll know for certain that stronger measures are needed. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 08:31, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think we've missed the boat on any short-term block/siteban here but for what it's worth Arbcom fairly consistently suggest/mandate escalating blocks and I think there's merit to the idea when dealing with misconduct that falls short of an indef. We need somewhere to go between a warning and long-term/indef sanctions. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 11:14, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I generally don't agree with time-limited sanctions either (indef blocks require the user to demonstrate that they understand why they were blocked before getting unblocked, which time-limited does not allow). I also agree with HJ Mitchell about how it's too late to justify a short-term block. I think 1RR needs to be put in place, and if it is violated escalating blocks can be imposed. Z1720 (talk) 16:10, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Товболатов

Appeal declined. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 10:41, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Товболатов (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction, that appeal is being requested for

indefinitely topic-banned from articles related to ethnic minority groups in the former Soviet Union, broadly construed

Administrator imposing the sanction

Rosguill

Notification of that administrator

Rosguill

Statement by Товболатов

I have a topic restriction indefinitely topic-banned from articles related to ethnic minority groups in the former Soviet Union, broadly construed. My violation 17 February 2023 tendentious editing across multiple articles, particularly this editing spree on February 16 (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8). I admit it's my fault. Half a year has passed, I did not participate in disputes, I did not violate the rules. Request to the community to remove the restrictions from me. I won't break the rules. In the last application Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement. 5 admins offered me to contribute on other topics, I have corrected the situation with the contribution accordingly. I translated and created about 100 articles mainly on architecture.

Out of two thousand edits, only three of my edits were cancelled, 1, 2, 3, and one article out of 100 was deleted. Last edit I just got the wrong city in Italy. Deleted article I didn't realise the vandal had created it before, as I was told it might be a fake. I received an Order of Merit for my great contribution to architecture, 5 commendations from various contributors.

I would like to point out that two participants who participated with me in disputes, one of them is blocked indefinitely, the second one later apologised three times for his actions in the wikipedia project at the very beginning, on Sockpuppet investigations/Dzurdzuketi, Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents and on Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement, if required I can provide diffs. Although the sanctions were only applied to me, the important thing is that the person acknowledged their mistakes and apologised for them. I don't have any questions about his edits. Here the person who argued with me says Rosguill, that I was not involved in those arguments, that he has no questions for me. On the contrary I can provide a fact where I supported him.--Товболатов (talk) 17:09, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Ochno privozhe diffy for the editor El_C 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. --Товболатов (talk) 16:40, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Appeal dated 19 September 2023. --Товболатов (talk) 08:29, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

El_C Yes I agree with you that the topic about old arguments should not be added here, I was thinking about it myself whether it should be added or not. On errors, Yes I forgot to leave a signature sorry do not judge harshly, bad intent I had no ...respectfully --Товболатов (talk) 09:29, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

El_C Sinceramente non mi piace ricordare questi argomenti, ma se insistete vi restituirò il testo e vi fornirò le prove senza problemi. Ho solo pensato che gli altri partecipanti avrebbero pensato che volessi imbrogliarli. E per quanto riguarda gli argomenti controversi, non voglio modificare il sito, volevo scrivere alcuni articoli su Grozny, la mia città natale, e sulla Repubblica Cecena. Mi sono già scusato più volte qui per i miei errori nella controversia. Dopo il mio errore è passato mezzo anno, non ho creato problemi a nessuno qui, anzi, ho dato un grande contributo.--Товболатов (talk) 16:04, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Z1720 Hi, it says why the Lighthouse of Lierna page was removed, there you see after the Justlettersandnumbers statement I myself supported the removal. I'm about to write the articles I'm about to write it's no secret.--Товболатов (talk) 06:38, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Товболат Курчалоевский (military)
Гурда (шашка) Shashka
Курчалой тайп Ancient family
Берса-Шейх Religious leader
Еврейский квартал (Грозный) Jewish Quarter
Здание института Грознии. Institute building.
Грозненский нефтяной научно-исследовательский институт Research Institute
Ашкеназская синагога (Грозный) Ashkenazi synagogue

I am mainly the author of the articles in the Russian section. Also in 2020 in the Russian section I am the author of about 20 articles on English topics.--Товболатов (talk) 07:04, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

And one more point at the very beginning you can see 2020, 2021, 2022 I did not argue with anyone at all.--Товболатов (talk) 07:25, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The pages I want to add they are not controversial. Everyone makes mistakes, I had a minor offence. I will not ask and apologise anymore, this is my last appeal to Arbitration. --Товболатов (talk) 08:45, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What I put in with one edit was deleted in half an hour. It didn't do much harm. If I had been warned that spam mailing is forbidden I also apologised and removed everything, but I was not warned and immediately sent to the ban, you can apologise 10 times and continue editing I was not given one time.--Товболатов (talk) 08:59, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Rosguill

Statement by (involved editor 2)

Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal request by Товболатов

Statement by (uninvolved editor 2)

Result of the appeal request by

Decline. When was this appeal even filed? You failed to sign + timestamp it, Товболатов. I realize it's in the history, but it isn't a start that inspires confidence. Without looking, I suppose it was after Sept 16, at least, in light of the report above this one. There seems to be reoccuring competence issues relating to both the English language and Wikipedia, like arbitration committee called arbitral (wrong venue for that btw), or edits that were reverted, called cancelled. There is zero evidence for anything on the third paragraph (e.g. "apologised three times," etc). The intent behind writing a statement such as: the administrator Rosguill before that twice offered me to make edits on other topics honestly eludes me. Other examples follow this trend.

This appeal seems to expect reviewers to gain familiarity with the disputes in question, likely for naught. Even just the format — like, adding all those Special:Diff links instead of piping them, makes reading this appeal challenging; its flow stunted. I get that there's a language barrier (and hey, English isn't my native tongue, either), but that's something that I think transcends that. I don't want to be unkind, but the appeal does not seem to have been that thoughtfully put together, My sense is that greater familiarity by the user of the project would be needed before being permitted to engage in contentious material again. And if, in the meantime, they are editing uncontroversial areas fine, all the better. But it probably will take considerable time to be up to par. P.S. For the reasons stated, it's likely that this appeal would have simply been archived without comment (i.e. failed by default). Pre-emptively, let's not no good deed it! El_C 08:08, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Товболатов, you edited parts of your appeal text that I already replied to without even making a front-facing note that you did so. That is not okay. If a reviewer were to, say, read what I said about there being zero evidence for anything on the third paragraph (e.g. "apologised three times," etc), but don't see that 3rd paragraph because you had removed it entirely without such mention — what are they to think? Sorry, but I submit that, regardless of intent, an appeal isn't the place to learn these very basic things. El_C 15:12, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Uhhhhhhhhh. Huh? El_C 21:25, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Recommend decline. I don't see any reason to lift this ban at this time. Товболатов has not outlined why they need the restriction lifted, nor what they hope to edit if this was successful. Furthermore, their statement "only three of my edits were cancelled," (of which I think they mean reverted) does not account for an article that they started called Lighthouse of Lierna in July which was later AfD'ed. Lastly, I have no idea why Товболатов wrote a paragraph in Italian, and it makes me think that there are some WP:CIR concerns. Z1720 (talk) 00:04, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Decline. I think there may be some machine translations here explaining the weird word choices? Anyway, it's not sufficiently clear they understand what led to the sanction (just "it's my fault"), what they want to do differently and if they have the communication skills to edit in a contentious topic. —Femke 🐦 (talk) 07:12, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Closetside

Issue has been resolved and lessons learned. —Femke 🐦 (talk) 07:36, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Closetside

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Selfstudier (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 15:41, 22 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I reintroduced "allegedly" in the two places that I removed them. Would you say that the current version is sufficient? Do I have any more obligations in your opinion to correct my 1RR violation? If I do, please inform me of them. Closetside (talk) 16:51, 22 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Closetside (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Arbpia

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

22 September I added the words "allegedly" per the given source.
22 September Removed.
22 September Removed again.

If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)

Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on 10 September (see the system log linked to above).

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Despite an earlier friendly warning on user talk page not to engage in 1R, editor did so shortly thereafter. A scrutiny of recent edits at Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict in 2023 shows a desire to tweak filers edits for little or no reason. For what it is worth, the editor is new and moved straight into the topic area having gained 500 edits. After being asked to self revert, editor made this edit which is not a self revert.

@Closetside: Please keep your comments in your own section. To respond anyway, originally, the material was added by another editor (on the same side of the fence as yourself), here and it was to that edit I added the words "allegedly" per the AP source. It seems to me that the simplest thing would be to restore the material to that point rather than the mangled POV grammatical nightmare created by yourself subsequently all with the sole intent of doing away with or downplaying the words "allegedly".Selfstudier (talk) 17:04, 22 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Closetside: This is a discussion about 1RR not some possible subsequent dispute resolution procedure. If you wish to revert as suggested, why not just do it? Selfstudier (talk) 19:01, 22 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

From my standpoint this matter is now resolved. Selfstudier (talk) 21:34, 22 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

!-- Please notify the user against whom you request enforcement of the request (you may use == Notice of Arbitration Enforcement noticeboard discussion ==

Notification

Discussion concerning Closetside

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Closetside

I reintroduced the language of "allegedly" after being notified of my violation. I wrote that Israel "alleged" that and Israel backed up their "allegation." I believe the current version and the version before I violated 1RR are virtually the same. If a neutral third party disagrees with me, I'd be happy to revert back to Selfstudier's verison.

Update: I self-reverted per Selfstudier's interpretation of 1RR. I still want a neutral opinion on this because I disagree with Selfstudier's interpretation for reasons explained above. If the neutral opinion agrees with me, I will undo my self-reversion.

@Selfstudier:, pending a verdict from an uninvolved administrator, I will revert to the last version before I started editing. I will revert the IDF video sentence to your version of it. I believe the dispute’s ultimate resolution will be on the talk page. Do you agree with this plan?

Sounds like you agree. I will do it promptly. Closetside (talk) 19:30, 22 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

After doing some reading, I understand I violated WP:1RR, by partly undoing @Selfstudier's contributions twice within a 24-hour period. 1RR (and 3RR) applies to any undoing of another contributor's edits. I restored the section to the state it was in before my violation. I request forgiveness from all offended parties and look forward to the positive contributions I will make to Wikipedia in the future. Closetside (talk) 20:47, 22 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Closetside

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

This seems resolved now. I'm okay with closing this with lessons learned. El_C 07:34, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Saintfevrier

Indef/one-year AE site ban. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 08:19, 24 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Saintfevrier

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: ජපස (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 23:14, 6 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested: Saintfevrier (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/COVID-19

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

Sep 3 Edit warring.
Sep 3 Edit warring.
Sep 2 Puffery/whitewashing.

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

If contentious topics restrictions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:CTOP#Awareness of contentious topics)

Alerted about discretionary sanctions or contentious topics in the area of conflict, on 2 Feb 2022 (see the system log linked to above).

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

I think that this is nearly a WP:SPA trying to whitewash an article about a fairly notorious COVID-19 um... *contrarian*. This seems to be a very slow-motion edit war, but y'all asked for us to bring examples to you, so here I am. I was alerted to this issue by Wikipedia:Fringe_theories/Noticeboard#John_Ioannidis. jps (talk) 23:14, 6 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

[28]

Discussion concerning Saintfevrier

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Saintfevrier

Hello. Please note that I have limited time due to a busy real-life schedule and this is one of the reasons why it took me so long to write here. The other reason is because I was waiting for a reply from T&S regarding the Wikimania-I mailing list before I got into editing on both attacks against me (Arb & Profringe). T&S handled all my requests promptly and respectfully and this time I can say they were the best players in this mess. I will not be inserting diffs, internal links, pings etc. at this stage as frankly I don't have the time. I hope to return soon and enrich the statement with the necessary links.

First of all: I'm a WP:SPA? That is downright outrageous! Have you checked how long I have had my Wikipedia account? Since February 2007. How many edits I have made across several Wikimedia projects (and on Greek Wikipedia), spanning a diverse range of subjects in the course of 15 years? How many Wikipedia in Education projects I have run? Is there a rule against veteran editors changing interests in the course of their presence on Wikipedia and choosing to edit specific topics?

"it's a slow edit war": first of all it is NOT an edit war: it is an attempt on my behalf to counteract the horrific slandering of the reputation of one of the finest scientists in the world (unless he has tricked the global scientific community into being among the ten most highly cited scientists at this moment). Secondly, it is slow because some of us have higher priorities in life than editing Wikipedia on a constant basis. We may even have health issues, hospitalisation etc. If and when I have the time and stamina to edit I prefer to gather material, find references and make larger blocks of edits rather than small ones. The paragraph on Covid-19, apart from being an effort to undermine his reputation and brand him a conspiracy theorist (which he quite clearly is NOT), was highly disproportionate to the work that Ioannidis has done in other fields. So I made it my mission to bring some balance to the article.

About Dermitzakis: I admit that the language I used was perhaps not neutral enough for Wikipedia. There is no intention for "puffery for Greek scientists". I will try to improve the article: it was rightly marked as seeming promotional and that was not my intention. However in the free time that I can allocate to Wikipedia, my priority is to set things straight on the Ioannidis article.

My next sitting at the computer will be for the "profringe" discussion, which is even more outrageous as Wikimania-I blocked my last reply to the list without warning me. I have no choice but to upload screenshots to Commons (of my own emails, i.e. no copyright issues) to let the community know the truth. It most certainly is NOT what they present it to be. Saintfevrier (talk) 08:20, 22 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

apologies for exceeding the 500 word limit, I'm only doing this to offer clarifications to @El C:
Screenshot of reply to Wikimania-l Planning your trip to Singapore for Wikimania 2023
: in the discussion under way about John Ioannidis at Wikipedia:Fringe_theories/Noticeboard, a user labelled me as "profringe" on the grounds of a question I had asked on the Wikimania-I mailing list. The said user has even posted a link to the thread, which I consider outrageous because 1) what validates them to bring an irrelevant issue into the Ioannidis discussion? Am I being stalked, and are my activities being pooled to direct other Wikipedians to draw conclusions about me? 2) The Wikimania-I thread is incomplete: it lacks my last reply (sent on June 29), in which I apologised for possibly offending any LGBTQ members and that was not my intention. I got a bounce reply saying I was being moderated and that my reply would either be posted or I would get an explanation as to why it was rejected. Neither happened. So when T&S reached out to me to tell me that several members of the community had requested sanctions against me for my conduct on the list, I told them about the situation with the mailing list and they said they would reach out to their contact there and ask for an explanation (very courteous of them. It's also worth mentioning that they quickly removed pedophile content that I pointed them to and that had been on Wikipedia for who knows how long). They only got a reply from Wikimania-I on Sept. 18, after two months of pressure. The reply said that the email was not published to the list because I was removed from the list. Outrageous once again, since I had no notification whatsoever of being removed. If Wikimania-I had proceeded with publishing my email, even late, now, in September, it would have been fair and I would have pointed to my reply as evidence that I am NOT transphobic, I do NOT spend any time at all on anti-trans fora, on the contrary I follow trans individuals who are also very upset with gender self-identification in gender-designated spaces. Thus all the stalking and cross-posting and name-calling against me is utter nonsense owing to lack of transparency and false notifications on the part of the moderators of Wikimania-I. Under these circumstances, I had no choice but to upload a screenshot of my last reply to the list to defend myself against all this outpour of toxicity. I had already added the file as an external link on the Fringe Noticeboard discussion but I gather that didn't help much, so I'm inserting a thumbnail here. Hope this explanation helped sort things out, thanks for your time Saintfevrier (talk) 22:20, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Bon courage

Relatedly, this user has been largely responsible for

Emmanouil Dermitzakis (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

which is crammed with peackock language like "leading role", "first scientist", "seminal paper" etc. all without proper sourcing. Not sure what this adds up to (Puffery for Greek scientists?) but it's not good for Wikipedia to host articles like this. Bon courage (talk) 07:46, 7 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Saintfevrier

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

This request had been archived without closure, and has then received an in-archive reply. I have thus moved the section back here. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 01:56, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
...waiting for a reply from T&S regarding the Wikimania-I mailing list before I got into editing on both attacks against me (Arb & Profringe)? I'm lost. El_C 07:27, 23 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

[1] The administrator may indicate consent at any time before, during, or after imposition of the restriction.

[2] This criterion does not apply if the original action was imposed as a result of rough consensus at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard, as there would be no single enforcing administrator.

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