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August 21

Indonesian names

moved from the misc desk Julia Rossi (talk) 03:48, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In Indonesia, is the name "Fery" typically the name for a male or a female? ike9898 (talk) 21:12, 20 August 2008 (UTC) By my knowledge of Indonesian culture I would assume male, but it could easily be either. Avnas Ishtaroth _{drop me a line} 01:12, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

According to this website, "it is 1.929 times more common for Fery to be a girl's name." I have no idea where this site gets its statistics, though.--El aprendelenguas (talk) 22:41, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

But not in Indonesian, where it is decidedly a man's name. (I asked my Indonesian partner.) Bessel Dekker (talk) 12:29, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

English word that evokes a medieval doctor?

What English word can I use to mean a medieval-style physician or doctor? I'm looking for an English word that evokes things like leeches, black death, blood letting, digging up and dissecting cadavers to learn about anatomy, etc.

I was able to find these middle english terms:

leche [1]
leech (modern spelling) [2]
medicin [3]
mediciner [4]
doctour [5]
phisicien [6]
practisoure [7]

but i'm not sure if one of these really evokes the whole plague, bloodletting and morbid medieval image of a doctor...? When I hear leech, as a modern English speaker, i think of the animal and not of a medieval doctor.--Sonjaaa (talk) 05:39, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Apothecary, perhaps. Or barber surgeon? -- JackofOz (talk) 06:13, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Those are cool suggestions but not exactly what i'm looking for. Apothecary is more like a pharmacist/chemist, and barber surgeon more like a field surgeon or combat medic.

apotecarie [8]
barbour [9] --Sonjaaa (talk) 06:20, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Have you checked on what Shakespeare calls them? That would likely be the most evocative term, he pretty much nailed all the other good turns of phrase. Franamax (talk) 07:28, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Chirurgeon" is a pretty classic word. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 11:22, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Humours appeals to a pre-modern conception of the body while it isn't specifically medieval.--droptone (talk) 11:57, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

How about a physick, as in "If the humours disrupt, you must sell the calf, and send word to bring the physick." The word refers more to what the practitioner does, rather than the practitioner himself. Chirurgeon refers usually to a surgeon (slicing and dicing), apothecary to pharmacy, barber again to minor surgery. Physician I'm not sure about, but I think it's a more 'scientific' version (i.e. hippocratic) of a 'doctor', who I think might have had more of a reputation as a quack and something of a cross between a herbalist and an alchemist. These are to be taken with a grain of salt - they're observances I've made from reading non-reliable sources (i.e. historical fiction, popular non-fiction). If you're writing in a medieval fantasy world, rather than ours, you have a bit more leeway. Oh, and on a picky note, Shakespearian references aren't quite medieval. The renaissance had begun to bring about better methods by then. 130.56.65.25 (talk) 00:23, 22 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

a coock :) herbalist, medicine man/woman, witch, surgeon, midwife, chemist,Omahapubliclibrary (talk) 03:40, 22 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I would have said "leech" -- assuming the context is sufficient, it wouldn't be at all confusing, IMO. Apothecary carries, for me, the connotations of medicine-making and dispensing, not diagnosis or surgery. 71.231.197.110 (talk) 07:29, 22 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Chaucer certainly had a phisicien for one of his Tale Tellers, and according to SOED, an alternative ME spelling was fisicien. Bessel Dekker (talk) 01:47, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hospitallers (for those associated with a Hospital obviously) or Sawbones? TheMathemagician (talk) 22:45, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A phrase in the The Da Vinci Code

There was this French phrase in The Da Vinci Code which was used by Shophie when recalling how her grandfather Jacques Sauniere used to design elaborate tests for her to pass before she got any gifts. I remember that in that context the two word (I think) phrase meant getting information or prizes by proving one's worthiness for it. I can't seem to find my copy of the book nor can I come up with a good enough search string to get the answer. Can someone help me out here? --59.96.200.243 (talk) 07:51, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Let's see if I am worthy. We know that Christ had twelve apostles. There are five paintings by Leonardo da Vinci in the Louvre. But there is only one Holy Grail. 5-1=4 and 4x12=48, so it follows that the answer must be in Chapter 48. And indeed: ""That's where the keystone comes in," Langdon explained. "When one of the top four members died, the remaining three would choose from the lower echelons the next candidate to ascend as sénéchal. Rather than telling the new sénéchal where the Grail was hidden, they gave him a test through which he could prove he was worthy. Sophie looked unsettled by this, and Langdon suddenly recalled her mentioning how her grandfather used to make treasure hunts for her—preuves de mérite." DAVID ŠENEK 19:01, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, O wise David. For your labour, I confer upon you your androgynous star ;) --59.96.205.173 (talk) 08:08, 22 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Libbie, Fudim

I finished doing q crytoquote of Libby Fudim in yesterday's newspaper. I wanted to find out more about her, who she is, and all I get is a quote after quote from all pages of the internet and nothing about her as a person.

Would you please provide a brief biography about her, since she appears to be a well-quoted person?

Jim Hirtle

<Email address redacted> —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.252.2.215 (talk) 13:48, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Google suggestion Libbie Fudim rather than "Libby, Fudim". We don't have an artilce, but if your research turns up anything interesting feel free to start one. Plasticup ^T/C 15:50, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Translation of "damnificadas"

I am researching an article on Hurricane Dean, and many of the best sources on its Mexican landfalls are in Spanish. Generally I can struggle my way through spanish-language newspapers, but this phrase is tripping me up: "Dean dejó a 61,408 personas damnificadas". Dean left 61,408 people injured or 61,408 people affected? It only killed 12, so 61,408 injuries seems excessive. Could it mean "affected" in the sense of those who evacuated, people with minor flood damage, and even people who had to rake their lawn afterwards? I (and my dictionary) thought that "damnificadas", when applied to people, meant "injured". Plasticup ^T/C 15:19, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wiktionary, at least, suggests both injured and affected, and adds "victims" as a noun. [10] Fribbler (talk) 15:25, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, they are both definitions, but I was hoping that a native speaker could tell me what meaning the word takes in this particular sentence. Plasticup ^T/C 15:47, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

According to the DRAE [11], the authority on the Spanish language, damnificado means "(someone) who has suffered great pain of a collective character." I know that definition doesn't really satisfy your question, but for what it's worth, I think the word is somewhat like the word casualties in that, to many people like myself, it doesn't really have a concrete definition, meaning to me things like kidnapping, injured, missing in action, etc. I'm not suggesting casualties as a good translation; I'm just saying they're both interestingly vague to some readers.--El aprendelenguas (talk) 19:38, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

WordReference gives the translation "affected" in nearly the same context: [12]. Someoneinmyheadbutit'snotme (talk) 00:11, 22 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

August 22

What is correct; Baseball parks or Baseball parks'?

Willy turner (talk) 01:29, 22 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The first is a regular plural; the second is a possessive plural. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 01:34, 22 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So 'List of baseball parks by capacity' would be correct? Willy turner (talk) 01:40, 22 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ja. Why would a baseball park own anything? It's not sentient. Avnas Ishtaroth _{drop me a line} 01:42, 22 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your help. By the way non-sentient entities can own things; eg. governments or companies. But no, not baseball parks. Willy turner (talk) 01:48, 22 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Baseball parks' ambiance is unique, no? --hydnjo talk 01:52, 22 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And to be ultra pedantic possession needn't imply ownership. Willy turner (talk) 01:56, 22 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No. Algebraist 01:58, 22 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And neither is their ambience. But you could use the possessive plural with baseball parks: Baseball parks' locations and sizes are the subject of my Masters thesis (or, to forestall the pedants, "Baseball parks' locations and sizes" is the title of my Masters thesis.) -- JackofOz (talk) 04:34, 22 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That sounds like a pretty boring master's thesis. Deor (talk) 04:57, 22 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There's a good reason why baseball has been dropped from the Olympics from 2012, and comments such as "What would Jack know about baseball?" can only inhibit the case for its re-inclusion. :) I look forward to the day when cricket becomes an Olympic sport again (it's played in far more countries than baseball has ever been; it was in the Paris 1900 Games, with Great Britain beating France in the final, although the French team was made up mostly of British expatriates). -- JackofOz (talk) 05:09, 22 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but cricket was dropped in my home town in the next games. I guess someone decided that people falling asleep in the stands would not be an attention-grabbing news report. :-) Deor (talk) 05:37, 22 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Haven't you read what Lord Mancroft said: Cricket - a game which the English, not being a spiritual people, have invented in order to give themselves some conception of eternity. :) -- JackofOz (talk) 07:41, 22 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As the American novelist Marvin Cohen put it, Life is an elaborate metaphor for cricket. Gwinva (talk) 09:14, 22 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

(some kind of outdent, the small print is too confusing) On the other hand, "Some baseball parks' left field walls are given nicknames. For example, Fenway Park has The Green Monster and Sovereign Bank Field has The Arch Nemesis." --LarryMac | Talk 15:22, 22 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And contrary to the partisans of cricket, I would contend that baseball parks' ambience is unique. While I am anything but a sports fan, I happen to have attended both baseball games and cricket matches, and their ambiences are quite different. Marco polo (talk) 17:49, 22 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"The American League baseball parks' dugouts are less comfortable than those of the National League." DOR (HK) (talk) 00:54, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Japanese question

What is Scrooge McDuck saying in this picture? JIP | Talk 15:37, 22 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You can find Leon and his friends in the residential area. At Merlin's place. Oda Mari (talk) 17:33, 22 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

French words

I noticed on a toothpaste box that l'email is actually French for enamel. Does the average homme sur la rue (?) use it to refer to email anyway or do they have a different word for it? Also, what is French for "man on the street"? Clarityfiend (talk) 20:21, 22 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Don't know about the equivalent idiomatic expression for "man on the street", but I believe the French do just use "Email". Although, I do remember hearing not too long ago that the ~~Academie Française~~ decreed that people should use "Courriel" instead. *sits back and waits for someone more knowledgable to correct him*Dgcopter (talk) 20:37, 22 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, according to the French Wiktionary entry (http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/courriel), "Courriel" was actually proposed by l'Office québécois de la langue française. Although, I'm not sure it's really caught on, since all the French out of office emails I get from Quebec say "E-Mail".Dgcopter (talk) 20:43, 22 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

(e/c with Dgcopter's second post) It pays off to be bold, because Dgcopter is right: "email" (mirroring English pronunciation) is informally acceptable in French. According to Wiktionary [13], courrier électronique and courriel (courrier électronique, noted as a Quebecisme) are more formal alternatives, though I suspect "email" is more in more used in formal situations nonetheless. Be aware, however, that émail, meaning "enamel," has a different pronunciation (/e.maj/) and an accent mark in writing. As for "man on the street," homme dans la rue sounds better, but I don't think it carries the same idiomatic value for "just an average guy" like it does in English.--El aprendelenguas (talk) 20:54, 22 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please see John Doe#Informal names for unknown or unspecified persons in various countries/regions.

-- Wavelength (talk) 21:25, 22 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

According to fr:Courrier électronique#Évolution des termes employés par les utilisateurs, le troisième paragraphe,

En France, l’appellation courriel, d’origine québécoise, a été rendue obligatoire pour les textes officiels depuis le 20 juin 2003 par la Délégation générale à la langue française et aux langues de France pour toutes les administrations et services publics français qui ont désormais l’obligation d’utiliser ce terme de préférence à tout autre (Article du Journal Officiel du 20 juin 2003). L’emploi du terme courriel est un équivalent des termes admis message électronique et courrier électronique lorsqu’il s’agit du document transféré par une messagerie électronique. Ce terme se répand aujourd’hui de plus en plus, et a donné lieu au dérivé pourriel, terme qui s’est imposé pour désigner le spam (courriels non-sollicités).

Translated into English,

In France, the name "courriel", of Québécois origin, has been made obligatory for official texts since 20 June 2003 by the "Délégation générale à la langue française et aux langues de France" (General Delegation to the French Language and to the Languages of France) [no link to an English article] for all French administrations and public services, which have henceforth the obligation to use this term in preference to any other. The use of the term "courriel" is an equivalent of the admitted terms "electronic message" and "electronic mail" when it has to do with the document transferred by an electronic message service. This term is being spread today more and more, and has yielded the derived term "pourriel", a term which has been assigned to designate "spam" (unsolicited mail).

-- Wavelength (talk) 03:13, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

According to the man in the street - Definitions from Dictionary.com, the French "l'homme de la rue" means "the man in the street".

According to Jules Maigret#List of short stories, L'Homme dans la rue is The Man on the Run and Inspector Maigret Pursues The Man in the Street.

According to man in the street: Definition from Answers.com, "man in the street" is a synonym of "John Doe, Joe Blow, Joe Bloggs".

According to man's body - English-French Dictionary WordReference.com, "man in the street" is equivalent to "homme dans la rue".

According to Traduire l'anglais: théorie et pratique - Google Book Search, "the man in the street" is equivalent to "l'homme de la rue" and "monsieur Tout-le-monde".

-- Wavelength (talk) 06:12, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"The man in the street" as a synonym of "average guy", "John Doe" should translate to l'homme de la rue. L'homme dans la rue has a different meaning. In the short story here above mentionned, the murderer is pursued by the police, hence he cannot get home nor he can hire a room in a hotel. He is obliged to stay, to live in the street.

As a French native speaker from France I use mail, message, courrier électronique, courriel, email, mèl (by decreasing usage frequency).

-- AldoSyrt (talk) 07:50, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Email in French is written e-mail but in conversation is often shortened to just "mail" as in "je t'envois un mail", "i'll send you an email". 190.244.186.234 (talk) 13:55, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Same in Dutch, where email means "enamel" as well, but is not homophonous with e-mail And in capitalising German Email is "enamel" whereas E-Mail means, well, "e-mail". Bessel Dekker (talk) 15:30, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

August 23

Canine, vulpine, equine, etc.

What are those words called? Not just adjective, I'm sure there's another name for this group of words. 67.169.56.8 (talk) 00:24, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well they all come from latin for each animal. Equinus is horse. Vulpinus is fox. 137.48.216.253 (talk) 13:10, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

From my Google search for "canine vulpine equine adjective", the first seven results are, in this order, the following.

List of irregular English adjectives

List of Animal Adjectives | Animal | Pub Quiz Help

English Animal Adjectives

Animal Adjectives

Beastly Garden of Wordy Delights Part II: Animal Adjectives

Animal adjectives

Scientific Adjectives [Archive - CareCure Forums]

-- Wavelength (talk) 15:28, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There are some problems here. There certainly is a scientific ending in -ine, but it is different (SOED has dentine, grenadine). On the other hand, "animal adjectives" is too broad a description. It would apply to doggish, dogged, swan-like as well as to asinine, and therefore would not take account of the -ine ending in asinine, feline, serpentine, bovine etc. Bessel Dekker (talk) 15:48, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

According to the OED -ine is a forming adjective "that is added to names of persons, animals, or material things, and to some other words, with the sense ‘of’ or ‘pertaining to’, ‘of the nature of." In relation to animals the OED refers to them as Natural History adjectives. Omahapubliclibrary (talk) 22:00, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, I recall seeing a list a long time ago and it had a specific name for all the animal -ine adjectives. I'll google around some more and see if I can find it again. 67.169.56.8 (talk) 22:30, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

When did the word 'Uranus' start to become amusing?

While I'm sure that toilet humour existed in the 18th Century (even amongst scientists), I'm guessing that the planet would never have been named 'Uranus' (or at least the name would not have been widely accepted) if the double entendre was blatantly obvious and snigger-inducing at the time.

So, when did the bad jokes start? --Kurt Shaped Box (talk) 02:04, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I would suggest that toilet humour, or something very much like it, did exist in the 18th century; cf. Jonathan Swift#Biographical sources. Bessel Dekker (talk) 02:23, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It might be that in the 18th century, Uranus was only pronounced [ˈjʊərənəs], and the [jʊˈreɪnəs] pronunciation was later. Does anyone know the history of these pronunciations (the OED doesn't give that sort of thing, unfortunately)? Algebraist 10:02, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Even the 1963 edition of Jones (English Pronouncing Dictionary) only has /ˈjʊərənəs/ (with variations for the /ʊə/). Bessel Dekker (talk) 12:32, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

18th century? These stories have been milling around longer than that.

This Nicholas was risen for to pisse

And thoughte he wolde amenden al the jape:

He sholde kisse his ers er that he scape.

And up the wyndowe did he hastily,

And out his ers he putteth prively

Over the buttok, to the haunche-bon;

And therwith spak this clerk, this Absolon,

"Spek, sweete bryd, I noot nat where thou art."

This Nicholas anon leet fly a fart

As greet as it had been a thonder-dent...

— OtherDave (talk) 14:01, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think people started making Uranus the butt of bad jokes when the word anus came into common usage. It is only recently that I have been familiar with the word anus. We always used to call it your ***##***le (not thinking there would be a word for it). Making fun of Uranus can be put down to increased knowledge amongst kids and therefore can be blamed in part on Wikipedia!(wher most kids get there knowledge now). Of course this puts people like me (who are into Uranus and other planets) in a bad light cos when I mention to people that Im interested specifically in Uranus people start to back away.--ILikeUranus (talk) 14:50, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Back to toilet humour, of course OtherDave is right. Our Host has something about a "fundament" that is "ypeinte" somewhere in a less than tasteful manner. — There exists an Austronesian language Anus, which, predictably, gave rise to jokes on nl:wiki about small children of that tribe having incomplete control over their Anus. Wags, of course, replaced the word by another with the structure --n-s. Bessel Dekker (talk) 15:24, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Phrase

Is "get a bad rap" common in the UK and Australia? Judging by Google results (restricting "get a bad rap" to the .uk and .au domains) it seems like it is far less common. I'm just curious about if I wrote "get a bad rap" if that would make sense or resonate with a UK audience. Thanks--98.217.8.46 (talk) 13:07, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

To "get a bad rep" (short for "reputation") is a very common phrase, but not "bad rap". --Nicknack009 (talk) 10:24, 24 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I use "get a bad rap" in here in Australia, and people understand me. Getting a bad rap is different from getting a bad rep. A bad rep means people thing badly of you. Getting a bad rap is something like getting bad luck, although it might be your own doing. Steewi (talk) 12:20, 24 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

We understand it in the UK, but we never use it.--ChokinBako (talk) 13:22, 24 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm in the UK and I do understand "bad rep" but would feel awkward using it as it's US English than my local version of UKEng. I've never heard "bad rap", certainly not as a synonymn for "bad rep". I have also heard "bum rap" ("unfair punishment"), but that's US English too - I don't think I'd use it either. Ka renjc 14:08, 24 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

'Bad rap' is not a synonym for 'bad rep'. It is a synonym for 'bum rap', all of which I have heard, but would never use, being a Brit.--ChokinBako (talk) 19:30, 24 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What is rap the abbreviation of?--Lgriot (talk) 06:16, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A "rap sheet" is a list of crimes/police run-ins of an individual. A "bad rap" is an arrest for a crime one didn't commit. Saintrain (talk) 18:56, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

To answer Lgriot's question, according to the OED (as well as the M-W Collegiate) rap in the sense of "criminal charge" is a development from Middle English rappe, with the meaning "a blow or stroke." By the 18th century, the meaning "a rebuke; an adverse criticism" had developed, and the OED's earliest citation (which does seem to be American) for the "criminal charge" meaning is from 1903. Deor (talk) 01:48, 26 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Deor.--Lgriot (talk) 06:01, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Nastia Liukin

There's a question on Humanities about (among other things) the pronunciation of this Russian name. Replies there please. Algebraist 16:43, 23 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

August 24

Southern American English

I'm trying to determine about how many native speakers of the Southern American English (SAE) dialect there are. I seem to recall reading the figure "50 million" somewhere, but I haven't been able to locate that reference after a protracted search. Thanks! Dylan (talk) 16:07, 24 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The WP article on the Southern United States gives the 2006 estimate of the population as 110 millions. The area on the map of this article seems almost congruent with the states shown in in the Southern American English (minus the dangly bit of Florida). Presumably it depends on your precise definition of SA English, if you include Afro American subdialects and so on. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 17:17, 24 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the response. You mention the precise issue I'm running into -- not all residents of the South speak SAE (immigrants or transports from other U.S. regions, for example, and AAVE is typically not considered part of SAE; SAE generally refers to white speakers). So I'm looking more for speakers of the specific dialect rather than number of residents where the dialect is spoken, because those can be very different. Dylan (talk) 17:57, 24 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think that you will be able to come up with a solid number. The line between what counts as SAE and what doesn't is hazy, and many speakers will exhibit some SAE features in their speech as well as some non-SAE features. For example, my mother lived in West Texas until she was 8 years old, and her native language was a dialect that had many SAE features but was on the western edge of the SAE dialect zone. However, she then moved to New England, where she spent the rest of her childhood and picked up many non-SAE speech patterns. Given the widespread mobility of Americans, I think that there must be many millions like my mother whose speech is difficult to classify. Marco polo (talk) 19:52, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Why are highways called that?

Why are highways called "high"? Is it because they are high-speed roads, as in you can drive fast on them? Because they are often high in elevation (for example, an overpass), being set off from normal roads? Is it because they were originally the roads of the "high" (the elite) in the same sense that some roads are called "king's roads"? Or some other reason? If possible, please give a source backing up your answer, since false etymologies are so frequent within etymology. —Lowellian (reply) 20:37, 24 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The OED traces it back to the meaning of 'high' as 'chief, principal, main; special', i.e. highways are the best and most important roads. That's for the original meaning of

A public road open to all passengers, a high road; esp. a main or principal road forming the direct or ordinary route between one town or city and another, as distinguished from a local, branch, or cross road, leading to smaller places off the main road, or connecting two main roads. the king's highway: see quot. 1895.

but I presume the modern American usage is derived from this one. Algebraist 20:42, 24 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This is anecdotal, but my impression is that it stems from the "King's Highway" in olde brittan where the highway was an elevated road with the trees cleared for one bowshot from the centre, i.e. a road suitable for nobility to travel on where robbers could be seen and responded to before they could ambush the travellers. Franamax (talk) 21:23, 24 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Algebraist is right (well, quoting the OED, what do you expect?). "High" just means "main" or important (and has little or nothing to do with physical elevation). Also seen in High Street: the main street in a town, which in turn has spawned the phrase "High Street shops" or "High Street businesses" referring to the main, visble businesses. Gwinva (talk) 23:26, 24 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There's a major thoroughfare in Melbourne that was apparently named after a high street somewhere. The namers in their wisdom called it High Street Road. -- JackofOz (talk) 01:11, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe they consulted the people who named a Toronto thoroughfare Avenue Road. OtherDave (talk) 02:33, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

High Street Road and Avenue Road are good names. Compare to the street names in this district in Calgary, Alberta:

http://maps.google.ca/maps?client=firefox-a&channel=s&hl=en&q=calgary+alberta&ie=UTF8&ll=51.145756,-114.218159&spn=0.006798,0.013819&z=16

Wanderer57 (talk) 03:18, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What drugs was that person on when they came up with that absurd system? -- JackofOz (talk) 06:07, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I like how there's an "85 St NW" tucked in the middle of all that royalty. And to remain slightly on topic, I grew up near a "Street Road" and currently live in a completely different place, near "West Broad Street Road".--LarryMac | Talk 19:40, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And yet the term "high street" isn't used in Australia. We have "main streets". Not far from High Street Road is another road called "Through Road" (that's its name - imagine the confusion if it was a "no through road". Fortunately, we're not quite that crazy.) -- JackofOz (talk) 04:15, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Geometrie

Anyone know where I can find an english translation of Descartes' La Geometrie? Black Carrot (talk) 21:51, 24 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

These guys will sell you a copy for 10 USD. Or do you want a free one? Algebraist 21:54, 24 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Free would be nice. Black Carrot (talk) 02:37, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Try this. — Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 03:20, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That's a good start, but it seems to be incomplete. Do you know where the rest of it is? Black Carrot (talk) 10:35, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

August 25

Horny

A man can get horny (erect penis looks like a horn) but surely a woman cannot get horny? what word is more appropriate for females? — (Unsigned comment left by Maaandrel (talk · contribs))

For either gender, you might say "aroused" or "excited". But in my experience (American English speaker), "horny" is not a term limited to men. Dylan (talk) 01:11, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wow, dictionary.com has an article on it. Agrees on the etymology. Anyway, yes, girls get horny, the word's been used that way for a very long time. With some effort, you can find websites like this: [14] that have lists of words like that. "Wet" seems to be the most fitting for your purpose. Black Carrot (talk) 02:36, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Never heard "up rise in the Levi's" before. bibliomaniac 1 5 03:17, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A woman's erect nipples could resemble little horns. — Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 03:13, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think the word has transcended any literal interpretation. They do that after a while. Black Carrot (talk) 03:40, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. I was just humoring Maaandrel's line of reasoning. — Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 04:05, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

ripcord

What does "ripcord" mean:

If the throw lands flat then the distance is measured from the back of the ripcord.
— http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Javelin_throw#Competition_and_throws

?24.65.69.8 (talk) 02:43, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Odd my understanding is that a flat landing is a foul. Omahapubliclibrary (talk) 03:34, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So do you know what the ripcord is, Omahapubliclibrary? — Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 19:15, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I see the word ripcord in the article on javelin, but undefined. What does it mean? Presumably nothing to do with ripcord as in parachute jumping.

I believe that the term in the article should be "whipcord [grip]". See the first item here. I've changed the article accordingly. Deor (talk) 19:34, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Slightly related. My impression is that there was no TV coverage of javelin throwing at this Olympics. Is that true, or did I just not watch at the right time? Thanks, Wanderer57 (talk) 19:30, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If you mean on NBC in the U.S., it went by in about 30 seconds... AnonMoos (talk) 22:25, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Quite a lot of coverage (particularly women's) on my continent. DOR (HK) (talk) 02:39, 26 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This is a long shot (long throw?), but maybe they didn't want to risk televising people being impaled. — Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 22:52, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There was javelin coverage on CBC in Canada, both separately and as part of the decathlon (perhaps only because there was a Canadian competitor, who, as it turns out, is really terrible at javelin). Adam Bishop (talk) 01:13, 26 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hottie

What does "w" and "CR" mean in the best times table of this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Connaughton#Biography?24.65.69.8 (talk) 03:33, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In athletics 'w' normally denotes wind assistance (usually in m/s with -w marking a headwind), which is taken into account when posting times. CR is usually used to mark a Commonwealth Record, although reading the article, it says it denotes a Championship Record - relating in this particular case to the Canadian Championship athletics event. Nanonic (talk) 03:47, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

ślůnsko

How to pronounce "ślůnsko", a native name of the Silesian language, and what is its IPA transcription? luuva (talk) 05:39, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

According to szl:Ślůnsko godka, it's ['ɕlonskɔ]. — Kpalion^(talk) 15:19, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! luuva (talk) 16:20, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Need somebody who speaks Arabic

Is Heyati real, or is it an attack on someone with that name? Corvus cornix_talk 07:12, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Regardless, I have prodded the article. — Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 07:49, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Also, perhaps the correct spelling is "hayati". — Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 07:54, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Google Translator does not recognise either.--Thanks, Ain lina (box)? 09:14, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I can tell, the person who wrote the article in question may be confusing the two separate Arabic words حياة and حياء (or misunderstanding some form of wordplay involving the two words). AnonMoos (talk) 22:16, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Considering the edit history, I think it's an intentional personal attack. Corvus cornix_talk 20:18, 26 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

August 26

Japanese music venue website

Here is a website in Japanese which I think is for a music venue or nightclub. Could someone please confirm this, and also tell me which city it is in and how its name could be transliterated. Many thanks, --Richardrj ^talk ^email 09:40, 26 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Richard. It is indeed a music venue for performances. It's in Shibuya, Tokyo. Just click on the 'toiawase' button, and it tells you that in English. On the front page it doesn't say where it is (it just says 'Koendori', which is the name of the company, but may be named after the actual street it is on?), but the '03' telephone number gives away the fact it is in Tokyo.--ChokinBako (talk) 11:26, 26 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Great, thanks very much. --Richardrj ^talk ^email 11:58, 26 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You can find the venue on the basement floor of Tokyo Yamate Church on Koendori/Park Street. The name of the venue is Koen dōri Classics and the address is 渋谷区宇田川町 19-5/19-5, Udagawacho, Shibuya, Tokyo. Oda Mari (talk) 16:47, 26 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Cheers, Mari. I think he is doing it for a translation. I don't really think he wants to actually visit the place. But, thanks, anyway!--ChokinBako (talk) 10:06, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, a translation. But every little nugget of information helps, and maybe I'll get to visit it one day! --Richardrj ^talk ^email 10:10, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Right, well, keep the questions coming. Mari and I will help you out (at only a 10% commission - each!). ChokinBako (talk) 13:28, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Notting Hill Carnival

Why is the Notting Hill Carnival often referred to without the "the"? There are several examples of such usage in our article e.g. "Carnival began in January 1959", "Carnival has been seen as a peaceful event". And this usage is also widespread in reports on the carnival in other news media. --Richardrj ^talk ^email 10:16, 26 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm guessing this is because Carnival can refer to a seasonal festival in much the same way as "Lent", or "Christmas" but can also mean just the event: "The Notting Hill Carnival". Fribbler (talk) 16:30, 26 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Whenever it is capitalized in the article, it is used as a name (one instance excepted). When a direct article is used, the initial is usually lower case. Bessel Dekker (talk) 02:21, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Null and void

When you use the term "null and void" ... is that merely a redundancy? Or does the "null" part mean something different than the "void" part? What exactly do the two parts mean when considered separately? What exactly do the two parts mean when taken together? Thanks. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 15:03, 26 August 2008 (UTC))[reply]

It's a redundancy, which is common with older legal phrases. They mean that the thing referred to has no legal validity. Each word by itself also means that (as well as having other meanings); "null" is rarely used alone in this sense, but "void" sometimes is (e.g., in the phrase "void and not merely voidable," which may give you some additional sense of the meaning. John M Baker (talk) 16:27, 26 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. So, John M Baker ... are you saying that the following three sentences are saying the exact same thing ... and that they are pretty much interchangeable?

That contract is null.
That contract is void.
That contract is null and void.

Thanks. (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 16:53, 26 August 2008 (UTC))[reply]

According to Void (law), the first definition of "void" in Black's Law Dictionary is "null". (That'll be $50, please. Oh, wait. There was no contract.) Clarityfiend (talk) 18:28, 26 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, those three sentences all say the same, although in practice nobody says "That contract is null." John M Baker (talk) 01:19, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You do sometimes hear "the contract is void", or "the contract has been voided"; but never "the contract is null" (I can't even remember hearing "the contract has been nullified"). Null by itself is used in things like null set and aleph null. -- JackofOz (talk) 22:32, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please translate the following text from English to Latin

Here is the text:

After Darius had returned to Asia his friends urged him to conquer the Greeks. He therefore prepared a fleet and an army and sent ambassadors to Athens to say that he was very angry because they had helped his enemies when they marched into his territory. The Athenians knew that they must resist him in order to preserve their freedom, and so bravely did they fight that even today men praise their victory. The poet Aeschylus, who was in the Athenian battle line, wished verses to be written on his tomb in which, although he said nothing about the many plays which he had composed, he declared that the Medes well knew the courage which he then displayed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tlongcena (talk • contribs) 16:10, 26 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This sounds more like a homework assignment, rather than the usual case of someone asking us to translate a short motto or slogan... AnonMoos (talk) 18:03, 26 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I was hoping for a better punchline. -- Coneslayer (talk) 18:32, 26 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If you want comedy, you need to wait for the ten-year-later rematch and the Hollywood version. Algebraist 19:40, 26 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I wasn't sure if this was homework; he e-mailed me to help with a translation before I pointed him here. I thought it sounded like an exercise from Wheelock or something but I didn't find anything online, except the same question posted to Yahoo and, oddly, a gaming website. So, homework? I'm not sure. Adam Bishop (talk) 01:02, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That gaming website is a source for some other unlikely questions, notably Am i a possible reincarnation of Alexander The Great? If this is not a homework assignment, then what could it be? I am not sure. Bessel Dekker (talk) 01:10, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What a bunch of meanies. Here's the first sentence: Afteray Ariusday adhay eturnedray otay Asiaay ishay iendsfray urgeday imhay otay onquercay ethay Eeksgray. — OtherDave (talk) 01:57, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

One would not like to carp, but while the morphology of this translation is impeccable, the syntax seems somewhat shaky. Bessel Dekker (talk) 02:17, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's Iddlemay Ulgatevay. — OtherDave (talk) 15:30, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Here's someone else's translation, which doesn't look too bad: "Regressus Darius in Asiam ita ab amicis de Graecis superandis admonebatur ut classem exercitumque instrueret mitteretque ad Athenienses legatos, qui nuntiarent ipsum vehementer iratum esse quod auxilium hostibus in eius fines ruentibus adtulerant. Athenienses autem ob libertatem obtinendam sibi opus esse isti resistere cvm intellexerint, tam fortiter repugnaverunt ut etiam nunc eorum victoriam ab omnibus laudatur. Aeschylus, poeta ille, luctatus in Atheniense acie, optavit quidem ut versibus in tumulo inscribendis, quamvis de multis fabulis suis taceret, Persicos virtutem quam tum exhibuerat certo sciisse declararet." Our Latinists here can probably suggest improvements to it. Strawless (talk) 17:34, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

For the record, the translation I sent originally was: Cum Darius ad Asiam redivisset, amici hortati sunt ut Graecos vinceret. Classem igitur exercitumque ornavit et legatos ad Athenas misit se iratiorem propter suis hostibus in fines ingressis auxilium. Athenienses autem, cum ei repugnandum esse ut libertatem servarent scieverint, tam fortiter pugnaverunt ut usque ad hunc diem victoria ab omnibus laudatur. Aeschylus quidem poeta, qui in Atheniense acie pugnavit, in sepulcrum scriberi voluit versus in quibus, quamvis de multis fabulis a se factis taceret, Medos certo scivisse iam virum fortem se praebuisse declaravit. Adam Bishop (talk) 07:00, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

information on a quote

I am looking for information on this quote...

"He who doesn't lose his wits over certain things has no wits to lose"
Gotthold Ephriam Lessing (1729-1781)

Any help would be appreciated 71.51.95.240 (talk) 20:31, 26 August 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.51.95.240 (talk) 19:06, 26 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, we have an article on Gotthold Ephraim Lessing (note the spelling of the middle name), if that helps. -Elmer Clark (talk) 19:47, 26 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

i'm looking for information on the quote itself. Its history, how it has been used, ect. Thanks though. 71.51.95.240 (talk) 20:30, 26 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Original quotation: "Wer über gewisse Dinge den Verstand nicht verlieret, der hat keinen zu verlieren." Source: Emilia Galotti, G. E. Lessing. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 23:14, 26 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

why is eleanor roosevelt credited with this quote

"Beautiful young people are accidents of nature. Beautiful old people are works of art." the original author is not known but it is often credited to eleanor roosevelt. why? 71.51.95.240 (talk) 22:22, 26 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Possibly because sources tend to repeat each other? However, here [15] it gives another author: Marjorie Barstow Breenbie. Some might prefer this [16] page. Bessel Dekker (talk) 00:18, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That doesn't sound like Eleanor Roosevelt to me, too precious. Xn4 (talk) 09:59, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fake or Fiction

What does the phrase "Fake or Fiction" mean? How and in what context is it proper to use this phrase? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.251.140.123 (talk) 21:45, 26 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Never heard it. "Fact or fiction" is the standard expression. -- JackofOz (talk) 22:14, 26 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm with Jack. As a phrase, "fact or fiction" is often used to highlight some purportedly unusual or hard-to-believe statement -- e.g.:

The clock tower at the University of Detroit is actually a smokestack.
President Kennedy had a secretary named Lincoln; President Lincoln had a secretary named Kennedy.
The famous plays were not written by William Shakespeare, but by another man with the same name.

-- OtherDave (talk) 02:03, 27 August 2008 (UTC), who made that last 'fact' up[reply]

I suppose one could contrive a context in which fake and fiction were differentiated, and then ask which is which. All fakes are a kind of fiction, but not all examples of fiction are fakes per se. -- JackofOz (talk) 04:16, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Presumably the person using this is differentiating the two in this way: I would take 'fake' to mean that thing was deliberately trying to make someone believe it is 'real' (i.e. fake gold wants to appear as if real gold) whereas 'fiction' is open and honest about being what it is. Therefore fake or fiction would mean - deliberately misleading or honest...Maybe that's what they mean? 194.221.133.226 (talk) 12:03, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Or maybe it's a joke, like "threat or menace?" And not to derail the thread, but does anyone know where that one originated? -- BenRG (talk) 16:04, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

August 27

Searching for books

To whom it may concern,

How do you search for books referring to certain subjects? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Narnia114 (talk • contribs) 00:34, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There are various ways. Why not google the subject (in "quotes") adding the word bibliography? For instance: assume you are looking for books on Angus Wilson. Type "Angus Wilson" bibliography. Bessel Dekker (talk) 00:42, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Or using Google Books.--Thanks, Ain lina (box)? 09:17, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

El Hombre Gordo

Please translate my user name into Spanish, Italian and numerous other languages. Human translations only, please. Thank you, The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 03:35, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

One possible Latin translation: Homo pinguis qui numquam rediit. Deor (talk) 03:59, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

French: Le gros qui ne revint jamais.--Lgriot (talk) 05:02, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Japanese: 帰ってこなかった肥満男 (Ka'ette konakatta himan-otoko) or 帰ってこなかったデブ男 (Ka'ette konakatta debu-otoko. Oda Mari (talk) 05:54, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

kaette konakatta himandan(?) or kaette konakatta debudan(?). [I'm only familiar with himan-sita otoko etc.] kwami (talk)

Chinese: 再也没有回来的胖子(simpl.)/再也沒有回來的胖子(trad.) --antilived^{T | C | G} 06:18, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

zài yě méiyǒu húiláide pánshi —kwami (talk)

Assuming it's pinyin isn't it zài yě méiyǒu húiláide pàngzǐ? --antilived^{T | C | G} 07:04, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Spanish: el hombre gordo que nunca regresó. — Æµ§œš¹ _{[aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi]} 07:28, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

My best Czech: Tlustý muž, který se nikdy vrátil. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 07:41, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Italian: L'uomo grasso che non tornava mai -- Ferkelparade π 08:07, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think that should be "che non tornò mai." --Lgriot (talk) 23:31, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

But wouldn't that imply that we had given up all hope for his return? I personally still believe that the fat man will someday come back, that's why I went with "tornava" :P -- Ferkelparade π 19:06, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Romanian: Bărbatul gras care nu s-a mai întors niciodatǎ. 92.81.7.77 (talk) 08:54, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

German: Der dicke Mann, der nie zurückgekommen ist. —An gr 09:10, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Elizabethan English: Jack Falstaff. — OtherDave (talk) 15:38, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Irish Gaelic: An fear romhar nach thar n-ais fós. Fribbler (talk) 16:37, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That's lacking the verb for "came", and "fós" means "(not) yet", not "never". I'd say "An fear ~~romhar~~ramhar nár tháinig riamh ar ais". —An gr 17:32, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sigh, sometimes I feel like handin' me passport back :-) You are right, of course. Fribbler (talk) 17:47, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Azari Turkish: Yoqun kiśi ke heś vaqt gitmadi. Omidinist (talk) 18:25, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Persian: مرد چاقی که هرگز برنگشت Omidinist (talk) 18:25, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Mard châqi ke hargez bar n--(?) kwami (talk)

mard-e châq-i ke hargez barnagasht. --Omidinist (talk) 04:21, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Pig Latin! E-thay at-fay an-may o-hay ever-nay ame-cay ack-bay!

Advanced l33t! +3|-| f4T |\/|@N w|-|o |\|3\/er C4|\/|3 8@c|< Dgcopter (talk) 18:37, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Korean: 다시는 돌아오지 않은 뚱뚱한 남자. --Kjoonlee 18:57, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Dasineun doraoji anheun ttungttunghan namja. kwami (talk)

Dutch: De dikke man die nooit meer terugkwam. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.171.56.13 (talk) 19:21, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Swahili: Mnene asiyerudi kamwe. kwami (talk) 01:41, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fantastic stuff, people! A few questions/requests:

A Russian translation, please please please? (the Fat Man reads and pronounces Cyrillic well, but his vocab is nonexistent)
Any chance of getting transliterations for some of those non-Latin characters (especially the Japanese)? If anyone does Hebrew or Arabic, transliterations would be appreciated as well.
I know zero French and am intrigued by the brevity of the French translation. Isn't gros an adjective? If so, does it double as noun, similar to how we might refer to important people or certain basketball players as "bigs"?
Old English, anyone? Anyone want to go Scandinavian?

I love the Reference Desk. --The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 01:15, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Old English: Se fætta man se þe næfre ongeanferde. Deor (talk) 01:50, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

:Russian: Толстый мужчина, который никогда не возвращал. (There's almost certainly a more idiomatic way of translating it, but being a mere idiot I don't know what it is). -- JackofOz (talk) 03:34, 28 August 2008 (UTC) See Kpalion's version. - JackofOz (talk) 22:01, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not a native speaker either, but I think this would be better: Толстяк, который никогда не вернулся. — Kpalion^(talk) 16:23, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

French: Adjectives can be made nouns if it is obvious what they refer to, like in your example. The meaning of "le gros" was originally "the fat one". However in this case, "one" cannot be feminine or plural (because that would be "La grosse" or "Les gros"). So to refer to a fat guy, people started to say "Le gros", or refer to a fat woman, "La grosse" etc, meaning the fat one. This is now so used that you don't need to say "man" any longer as a standard, if you don't specify what is fat, then it is a singular person, and masculine, a man. This is just like in english "blond": it starts being an adjective for part of the person, the hair, but then a few decades later you can say "I met a blonde". In French, we can say it too, and we can say also "I met a fat". --Lgriot (talk) 05:51, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's possible in Romanian as well. The one I wrote above is with "the fat man", but there can also be a French-like one with "the fat (one) [masculine]": Grasul care nu s-a mai întors niciodatǎ.

German, too. I wrote "der dicke Mann" but it could also be "der Dicke". (Substantivized adjectives, like nouns, are capitalized.) —An gr 20:38, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hebrew: haeesh shahmen sh'af pam lo hazar---האיש שמן שאף פם לא חזר. (it's closer to: The Fat Man Who Never Returned) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.24.14.15 (talk) 06:20, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Not quite. It should read האיש השמן שאף פעם לא חזר ha'ish hashamen she'af pa'am lo chazar. Adjectives need to agree with the noun they modify in definiteness, and "time" is spelt פעם, not פם. Macnas (talk) 02:53, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Arabic: Arabic: السمين اللذي لا ابدا عاد (al-sameen alladhi la abadan 'aada) Adam Bishop (talk) 07:49, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Icelandic: Feiti karlinn sem kom aldrei aftur.

Norwegian bokmål: Den tykke mannen som aldri kom tilbake.

Danish: Den tykke mand som aldrig kom tilbage. (Only the Icelandic is native.) Haukur (talk) 09:43, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Polish: Grubas, który nigdy nie wrócił. — Kpalion^(talk) 15:56, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Swedish: Den tjocka mannen som aldrig återvände. --NorwegianBlue^talk 19:43, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Indonesian: Si-gendut yang tak pernah pulang lagi. Why do you need these translations in the first place? Are we in for an emotional press-conference (international coverage of course) soon? Or is he coming back after so much weight loss that reports of his return would be strongly exaggerated? Bessel Dekker (talk) 22:49, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This is superb. I love the sound of the Arabic Fat Man; it's probably my favorite so far. Thanks also for clarification on substantivized adjectives; now if someone calls me "Der Dicke" I won't take offense. I don't have a clever or meaningful answer for BesselDekker's question above, but I am considering a world tour in the near future and will need to print posters, badges and T-shirts announcing my arrival.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 18:32, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fridge magnets? Wanderer57 (talk) 15:59, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not 100% sure of the Arabic since there are a dozen ways to say "fat" and "come back" and another way to say "never", but perhaps AnonMoose or Omidinist can confirm. Adam Bishop (talk) 20:40, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

man in touch with his feminine side

Does the English language have no positive words for a man in touch with his female intuition, etc.? I can think of concepts like dandy for a well-dressed man or Sophia-level anima, I guess there's metrosexual. I'm looking for a word that means a man who is so admirable because he's well-developped in his feminine qualities yet he's still manly.--Sonjaaa (talk) 16:57, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Sensitive New Age Guys", as immortalized by Christine Lavin (the lyrics are rather amusing...)? AnonMoos (talk) 17:41, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Less heavily connotated, perhaps, (the) sensitive male? Bessel Dekker (talk) 23:25, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"An 80s kind of guy" ? DOR (HK) (talk) 02:02, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

French to English genealogy translation

I have some family history which is written in French and requires translation into English. If anyone is ready to help, please leave your e-mail or another way of contacting you and I shall write to you ASAP. Thank you very much. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.234.240.31 (talk) 20:56, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm a certified French-to-English translator. My e-mail is <removed to reduce chance of spam. It's in this diff> --Sonjaaa (talk) 21:39, 27 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Terms and condtions (as in business)--

Isn't each of these 'terms' covered by the other? If not, what is the diff between terms and conditions--79.76.196.178 (talk) 02:52, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Look upwards at the "null and void" section...

AnonMoos (talk) 03:12, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Some of the word-pairing allegedly comes from the combining of Norman French with English; it's just as likely some came from the desire of the legal profession to erect battlements of obfuscation around their lucrative and self-regulating fiefdom. "Null and void," "cease and desist," "last will and testament," "give and bequeath," "breaking and entering," "goods and chattels." As Fred Rodell has said, "There are two things wrong with almost all legal writing. One is its style. The other is its content." — OtherDave (talk) 09:19, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What's wrong with 'breaking and entering'? They're separate acts, and you have to do both for the common-law definition of burglary to apply. Algebraist 11:25, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Nowt wrong with "cease and desist" either. The first means to stop doing something, the second means not to start doing it again. --Richardrj ^talk ^email 13:24, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Quod erat demonstrandum. -- OtherDave (talk) 16:31, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sed nil disputandum that legal English (and Middle Dutch, for that matter, and I suspect quite a few other languages) does use repetition. A number of explanations seem to co-exist: definiteness, ritual phrasing, invariance. Bessel Dekker (talk) 22:55, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There remain these three: definiteness, invariance, and ritual. But the likeliest of these is ritual. (St. Paul, Epistle to the Corinthian Bar Association) -- OtherDave (talk) 23:28, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This rather thirteenish point of view, however, begs the question why ritual should be so important in legal language. Precedent would be another (and more or less synonymous) explanation. Bessel Dekker (talk) 00:32, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Pairing of Norman French with English. I've heard that explanation before, but a quick search on dictionary.com shows that they list all of null, void, cease and desist as coming from French. Could dictionary.com be wrong? --Kjoonlee 03:23, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Void and cease definitely come from French. Null and desist could come either from French or directly from Latin. At any rate, none of these 4 words is Germanic. —An gr 10:52, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've started an article at legal doublet. I asserted (unsourced) that the origin is due to the different-languages thing just to get the ball rolling, but my personal belief is that it's ritualized to indicate that you're talking about a specific well-defined legal term not subject to ad hoc interpretation. If they didn't use "null and void" to describe that legal concept, then they would be obliged to say "the contract was void (and by 'void' I mean 'void' in the way defined in Toto v. Baggins, not in the usual English sense of the word whose nuances might be quibbled with)". --Sean 13:16, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've put a query on the talk page about sources. Great little list, though. -- JackofOz (talk) 21:55, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Whoever vs. whomever

Variations on a Theme by Joseph Haydn @ Origin of the theme contains the line:

To date, no other mention of the so-called "St. Anthony Chorale" has been found, leaving open the question of whether the Chorale is even attributable to whoever composed the Divertimento.

My first instinct was to change whoever to whomever, but an inner voice held me back. The whole phrase "whoever composed the Divertimento" is the object of "attributable to", which suggests objective case for whoever, = whomever. But can that word be considered independently of its phrase in order to determine what case it should be in? I suppose if it had been "attributable to he who composed the Divertimento", it would have to be "him". The whoever case seems somehow different, but I can't quite explain why. Any ideas? -- JackofOz (talk) 06:30, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Your inner voice is right. "Who(m)ever" takes the case assigned by the lower clause, not the higher one. "Whoever" is the subject of "composed", so it's in the nominative, regardless of the fact that it is also the object of "attributable to". —An gr 07:08, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That makes a lot of sense, Angr. But why does the nominative have precedence over other cases? Is this related to the "lower" and "higher" clauses you refer to? What exactly do you mean by lower and higher? I've thought of a similar example: "For a bit of fun, I've decided to marry/kill/have sex with whoever next walks through that door". I agree that whoever sounds right, and whomever sounds wrong - in both examples; but my inner pedant will not be silenced. My voices have a lot to answer for (which is why I'm taking Joan of Arc as my personal patron saint). . -- JackofOz (talk) 09:00, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In cases like this I always try and replace the questionable word or phrase with something else and see if it makes sense. In your second sentence, you could replace "whoever" with "the person who" and it would clearly be correct ("whom next walks through that door" is obviously wrong). As for why it's correct, I leave that stuff to the linguists. --Richardrj ^talk ^email 09:07, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Personally, I prefer whomsoever over whomever as it seems to fit more applications and has the wonderful ability to sound so much more posher and obsequious. Nanonic (talk) 09:04, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

See also this video from The Office (US) and the links below it, particularly this one which has an in depth analysis. the wub "?!" 11:19, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That's a lovely website and I've bookmarked it for future reference. Thanks, but it didn't seem to answer my precise question here. -- JackofOz (talk) 21:45, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Jack, it's not that the nominative has precedence over other cases, it's that the lower clause has precedence over the higher one. If the lower clause calls for accusative, and the upper clause calls for the nominative, then "whomever" is used: "Whomever Jack marries will be a lucky man indeed". —An gr 18:36, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not being deliberately obtuse, but I still don't get what you mean by "lower clause" and "higher clause". Which is which in the example you just gave, and which is which in the original example? -- JackofOz (talk) 21:42, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, sometimes I forget not to use linguistics technical terms in this venue. The "higher clause" is the main sentence ("Someone will be a lucky man indeed"/"The chorale is attributable to someone") while the lower clause is the sentence fragment controlled by "who(m)ever" ("Whomever Jack marries"/"Whoever composed the divertimento"). —An gr 22:15, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

OK, that's clear now. Thanks. In Jack-speak that would come out as: The case of who(m)ever in "Whomever Jack marries" is not governed by the rest of the sentence but solely by the internal construction of the clause in which it appears. Hence it makes no difference whether the clause is the subject or the object of a sentence. Or, indeed, any other part. Eeeexcellent. -- JackofOz (talk) 23:01, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Jeez, you can tell none you ignorami have studied Latin. Look up nominative, accusative and dative cases for the answer.

NB joke for Latin educated people only: BTW Did you hear of the Latin student, who, when asked by his female teacher to congugate, declined? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.76.200.98 (talk) 22:53, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"none you"? "ignorami"? "congugate"? -- JackofOz (talk) 23:01, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah 'none you' obviously means 'none of you'. This is well understood in the northern hemisphere (around here anyway). ;). Also ignorami is the proper (Latin) plural of ignoramus (but I'm sure you knew that). And to conjugate (conjugation of verbs)) is to recite the different cases of the verb: I am, you are, he is etc.--79.76.200.98 (talk) 01:02, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Why not be easy on ourselves, and use a simple substitution?

The Chorale is attributable to [X].

The Chorale is attributable to [whoever composed the Divertimento].

We do not know who X is. We do know, however, that X is identical to some person, and that person is [whoever composed the Divertimento].

Alternatively, try to read a pause after *whomever. If that word really teamed up with to, such a pause should be natural. It is not. In fact, to combines with whoever composed the Divertimento in its entirety. A slight pause after to would even be more natural.

Differently put again, to whoever composed the D is prepositional object. If *to whomever were the prepositional object, what could be the subject of composed? Ah well. Bessel Dekker (talk) 23:04, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That's pretty much what I said above, everyone else has ignored my post though, maybe you'll have better luck. --Richardrj ^talk ^email 23:54, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No-one ignored you (or at least I didn't), we just didn't have anything to say in reply. Algebraist 23:57, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough, after all my reply did (IMHO at least) conclusively nail the query, so I guess there wasn't much to say in response :) --Richardrj ^talk ^email 00:05, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, Richard. I just tried to expand on your explanation a bit, but of course I agree with it. Bessel Dekker (talk) 00:07, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't ignore it either, Richard (I just appeared to have done so). I considered it, but it still didn't quite explain what I wanted to know. Angr finally came up with the goods (see above). Thanks for your contribution. If there's anyone else I failed to acknowledge, consider yourselves acknowledged now. -- JackofOz (talk) 00:41, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Pronouncing the name Alcide

How would you pronounce this name? It's in my family tree, and I'm just curious. It's Italian in origin, and I'm thinking Al-see'-day, but I'm not sure. Thanks.Somebody or his brother (talk) 15:28, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Italian pronunciation would presumably be ahl-chee-day (in informal transcription)... AnonMoos (talk) 15:31, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The DOP agrees with AnonMoos (stress on the "chee"). --Cam (talk) 20:09, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've seen it as a French name as well, pronounced "al-SEE". Steewi (talk) 01:59, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Translation of some Japanese text

Quick question: what does this text mean? Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.15.116.95 (talk) 17:17, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

外来語/Gairaigo means "loan word" or "borrowed word". Oda Mari (talk) 18:38, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Poster Text

This text is from an old poster, or, more precisely, a reproduction of an old poster.

Loden dal Brun Schio (Veneto)

Figl'ali:

Milano

Roma

Napoli

Cataloghi -- campioni gratis

Scrivere: "Loden dal Brun -- Schio"

Based on the city names, I guessed this is in Italian. The Babelfish translation site gave a partial translation as follows:

loden from brun schio (the Veneto) figl' it tows Milan Rome Naples catalogues champions gratis to write

This is not enough for me to grasp the meaning. Will someone please assist? Wanderer57 (talk) 19:21, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Loden (qv) is a greenish wooly material used for peasant style coats and the like. The poster by Achille Beltrame seems to be a sort of advert for this, presumably giving the shops / cities of avalability in Italy. Figl´ali ... would mean something like "branches in Milan, Rome and Naples", assuming that the main shop is in Venice.

A bit of a guess. Italy is the next country down South West, but I don´t speak the language since Latin went out of common use. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 20:44, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Loden dal Brun"

In the city of Schio (Venitian province)

Branches in Milan, Rome, Naples

Catalogues and samples for free

Write to: "Loden dal Brun" in Schio

--Lgriot (talk) 00:13, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you both. Wanderer57 (talk) 02:43, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

French -- how bad is it to not use accents?

Ok, this is something about my company that's sort of bugged me for a while. We have a factory in Quebec, and when stuff ships from that factory, we use bilingual (i.e., French/English) shipping documents (Bills of Lading, packing slips, etc.). Invoices are also bilingual. However, the system-generated documents we use end up omitting all the accents. So, for exmaple, "sold to" becomes "vendu a" (sic). How big of a deal is that, and how dumb does it make us look? I've been tempted to say something, but the use of those documents far pre-dates my working for this company, and I figured if nobody before me (including the people who actually work in the Quebec plant) said anything, then maybe it's not that big of a deal? Dgcopter (talk) 19:24, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Where is the 'stuff' being shipped to? Wanderer57 (talk) 19:33, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, the powers that be (over)simplified things to the point such that anything that ships from that plant, regardless of destination, gets bilingual documents. Acutally, they went further than that -- anything that ships from any of our Canadian factories (there are several) gets bilingual documents. Kind of overkill, I guess. But to answer your question, some shipments are within Quebec, some are to other provinces. Dgcopter (talk) 19:41, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Not overkill if that is what the law requires (which the Canadian federal government may require for shipping, I don't know for certain). Remember bilingualism is a national thing in Canada, not just a Quebec thing. Even here just across the border in the U.S., we get a lot of dual labeled products - but French/English labels, not the Spanish/English labels I remember from growing up deeper in the U.S. Rmhermen (talk) 23:56, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting question. I would say that it depends on the Quebecois. If they say it matters to them, then as long as the costs of changing the system aren't prohibitive, I would say it should be changed. However, "vendu a" is very understandable and could not be interpreted in any other way. Another question, if you do want to take this further, is how far to take it. For example, if the product being sold if feminine, then the correct way would be to append an e to "vendu" as such, "vendue à", but it seems pretty impractical to do this.PGScooter (talk) 21:12, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yeeks ... the masculine/feminine thing would be a pain. I'm pretty sure nobody really cares, regardless. Although, I was just looking at the bill of lading again, and I noticed something else kind of problematic. In English, there's a section that describes the density of the item being shipped as being "more than x but less than y pounds per cubic foot". This gets abbreviated on the form to "M/T x B/L/T y LBS. PCF.". But they didn't translate all of the abbreviation, so the French version appears as "M/T x B/L/T y LIV. PCF."! That seems worse than leaving out the accents...Dgcopter (talk) 21:26, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

For those who don't speak French: "livres" is the correct translation of "pounds", but the other three abbreviations are all wrong. If the same style of abbreviation was used (I've never actually seen it used in French, but I don't read this sort of document in French normally), it would be "P/Q x M/M/Q y LIV.PPC." And that C for cubique could equally well stand for carré (square)! But, good grief, why not use metric units and their standard symbols? This is not the US. (No, don't answer that.) --Anon, 19:34 UTC, edited 23:16, August 29, 2008.

It's always amused me that a language where half the letters in any given word aren't pronounced at all should go to such lengths to ensure there is no confusion over the slightly different pronunciations of the letter "e". Koolbreez (talk) 21:30, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Haha, a very amusing point Koolbreez makes. As for accents, though it is no longer "officially" accepted, it could look better if you write in CAPITALS. That kinda gives you an excuse to not put accents.--El aprendelenguas (talk) 22:44, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Rather than using capitals, you could opt for small caps, as (combined with initial caps) they are a little less ostentatious. Of course, the accents can make for a difference in meaning: sur "sour", sûr "certain"; and, I think, congelé past participle, congèle 3rd present sigular. Bessel Dekker (talk) 23:22, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If you're looking for opinions, I think the lack of accent marks does make the company look dumb, or at least indifferent to its French-speaking clients. It's not like the cost of the ink is going to set them back much, and the translators could provide the accents from the start.

I suspect that those who set the documents up long ago didn't really care all that much; they were grudgingly complying with official-language requirements.

Here's one way to look at it: what's your reaction as a businessperson when you get ungrammatical or incorrect English in documents from suppliers? Years ago, I worked for Amtrak. I helped evaluate bids from contractors. One contractor -- American, native speaker of English -- sought $500,000 in business yet repeatedly spelled the company's name "Amtrack." Fairly or not, we took this as a sign that he didn't care enough about the 500 grand to learn to spell our name the way we did.

He didn't get the contract.

Impossible n'est pas français.. — OtherDave (talk) 23:26, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Got his just dessert, that contracter did! Seriously though, people who would not dream of offering you a soiled visiting card will send you misspelt correspondence. Bessel Dekker (talk) 00:08, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And those pristine visiting cards may themselves contain spelling errors. Many take the view that it doesn't matter anymore as long as the communication is effective. Other Dave's example puts the lie to that monstrous misconception. -- JackofOz (talk) 00:38, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Whenever I saw spelling mistakes (in either language) on business correspondence, I wondered what else that company did poorly or sloppily. It is never a positive sign. ៛ Bielle (talk) 00:47, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Slovar

Where can I find a free Russian—Russian or Russian—English dictionary? I've seen some some versions of wikitionary in Deutsch in .pdf format... Is there any Russian versions? Thanks in advance Mdob | Talk 22:32, 28 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Besides the regular Russian Wiktionary & the Russian words in the English Wiktionary, our article on the Russian language links to some dictionaries in its external links section.
Regards, Ev (talk) 01:37, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This was one I found quite useful. Steewi (talk) 02:06, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Not quite what I wanted... I was thinking of an off-line downloadable dictionary. But thanks anyway. Mdob | Talk 16:33, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

August 29

English emphasis

Many people now seem to list things, putting emphasis on the last or penultimate word in each item the list. e.g. i went to CAMBRIDGE, saw my MOTHER, fed the CAT, came HOME, etc. Is there a term for this? Kittybrewster ☎ 10:22, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There is a thing called High rising terminal that might be of interest, not sure if this is exactly what you're looking for but it's aronud the ending of spoken sentences in language (english in particular). I'd suggest looking around the linguistics/phoentics links from within as there's a lot of interesting stuff and you might find what you're looking for in the end. 194.221.133.226 (talk) 14:12, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Clown in libertà"

This is the title of a street theatre work that, according to my source text, was awarded First Prize at the 2007 “Sul Filo del Circo” International Festival of Contemporary Circus, held in Italy. The only content-context I have is that it involves three clowns playing music while engaging in feats of acrobalance, juggling, etc. How would you suggest I translate the title in English (and avoid a "faux amis" blooper):

"Free the Clown!"
"Liberate the Clown!"
(? other)

Thanks, Deborahjay (talk) 13:34, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I do not know the plot, but I have heard the title translated as Clown in Search of Freedom; I am not sure about its correctness. --Omidinist (talk) 16:18, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Spanish speaker here :-) A direct translation would be "Clown in freedom", meaning "clown being free"... "clown freely expressing himself". Perhaps using the plural "Clowns" would be better.
The title is probably an allusion to the Italian expression "parole in libertà" ("words in freedom"), refering to "speaking freely", speaking without holding back for fear of the consequences or for political correctness.
But there is a second possible allusion: parole in libertà is also a poetic genre created by the Italian futurist Filippo Tommaso Marinetti. Our article on him says:

"But his attempts to renew the language of poetry did not satisfy him. So much so that in his foreword to the anthology, he launched a new revolution: it was time to be done with traditional syntax and to move towards "words in freedom" (parole in libertà)."

So, a simple Clown in Freedom would have the advantage of retaining the original connotations for those able to grasp them. The more elaborated Clown in Search of Freedom, mentioned by Omidinist above, could -perhaps- convey better the general idea to a public not acquainted with the Italian language :-) I hope this helps, Deborah. - Regards, Ev (talk) 17:26, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Your helpful efforts, Omidinist and Ev, prompt me to explain the seemingly offbase English I suggested above: it's a product of the :it:he: translation I was provided. Mediated translation being suspect by nature, I thought to query the original Italian here, and am glad for the input. Further investigation (of the :he:) is evidently in order! -- Thanks, Deborahjay (talk) 18:56, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Glad to be of help :-) However, the Hebrew title is not a bad choice: they opted for conveying forcefully the spirit behind the original Italian words, and presumably behind the work.
Parafrasing the words from our article, we can imagine that

the attempts of the work's creator to renew the language of "clowning" did not satisfy him. So, he launched a new revolution: it was time to be done with the traditional rules of the clowning performance and to move towards "clowns in freedom".
Using your preferred format :-)

From there to cry "Free the Clown!" is but a small step; it's a translation of the spirit, if not the words. — Supposing the work has anything to do with parole in libertà, of course :-) Best, Ev (talk) 19:27, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If so, I'll offer the following as my provisional translation:

The Clowns Set Free! (closest to the word order of the Italian; the pl. subject makes the verb clearly InT.)
Set the Clown/s Free! (as the Hebrew version is unaccountably imperative, though the Italian is provided)

-- Many thanks, Deborahjay (talk) 06:38, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Acronym request

what is the acronym for postive action telephone hotline —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.213.189.237 (talk) 22:15, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I can only assume it would be PATH, but our page knows it not. -- JackofOz (talk) 23:55, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

OP seems not to know what an acronym is. See acronym.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:39, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think the question can be understood in (at least) two ways.

1) If one wanted to create an acronym for "Positive Action Telephone Hotline", what would it be?

2) What acronym is normally used to mean "Positive Action Telephone Hotline"?

The answer to the first is of course PATH. IMO the answer to the second is that there is none. I say this because the title "Positive Action Telephone Hotline" shows up zero times in a Google search of the Internet. Wanderer57 (talk) 15:42, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

August 30

presidency/prime ministership

We can say in English "Such and such an event happened during the presidency of X", "The presidency lasted X years". What is the proper term for a Prime Minister (UK)? Is it Prime-ministership as in "during the Prime Ministership of so-and-so".

thanks Duomillia (talk) 00:52, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

'Premiership' is more common, I think, but it might be better to avoid this phrasing entirely. Algebraist 00:59, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In historical works, 'ministry' is used (eg 'Disraeli's second ministry'), but I don't think this would be readily understood in reference to a recent PM. --ColinFine (talk) 16:28, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Douche Renaissance

We seem to have embarked on a new golden age of the terms "douche" and "douchebag." I'm curious as to the impetus of the resurgence of these phrases.

Oh yes, and is this urbandictionary definition of "d bag" fairly accurate: Ironic term for douche bag, since by abbreviating "douche-bag" unnecessarily, you, in turn, resemble a "douche-bag." Sappysap (talk) 01:06, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's rather funny hearing people calling other people shower... --antilived^{T | C | G} 07:13, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"He's an absolute shower" was a fairly common term of pejoration among upperish-class Brits at one time. Terry-Thomas used it a few times to good effect in It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World. -- JackofOz (talk) 07:33, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I thought it had returned because of South Park, which also seems to be the reason for the popularity of "sweet" as an exclamation. Adam Bishop (talk) 07:55, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I assumed "sweet" was from Family Guy; Peter says it all the time. Matt Deres (talk) 16:11, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Swear words

Why are swear words often put in quotation marks? February 15, 2009 (talk) 12:51, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Are they? Presumably it's because they are being quoted. Can you provide examples of what you mean?--Shantavira|^{feed me} 14:35, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Tits

I am trying to find the derivation of the term 'tit' or 'tits' in relation to the female breast. I have looked at tits and breasts but am unable to find the answer there.--79.76.176.172 (talk) 16:51, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That's something a dictionary would have. Try wiktionary or another online dictionary. Friday (talk) 17:02, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Looking at tits and breasts, to quote the OP, infrequently provides useful answers to the encyclopedic inquisitive mind. From the very slim booklet "The collected wit and wisdom of --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 17:50, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

PS: Looking at tits and teats in the Wiktionary will enable you to find the answer there, however (OE, of Teutonic origin). Of course, your method seems to be much more fun. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 17:50, 30 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

japanese grammar

Would it be OK to say, "Kate-san wa sensei ga suisenjou wo kaite itadakeru ka dou ka kiki ni ikimashita" to mean "Kate went to ask her teacher whether or not he could write a recommendation for her" ?? Or is the grammar here screwed up?

Would it be better to say "Kate-san wa sensei ni suisenjou wo kaite moraeru ka dou ka kiki ni ikimashita"??