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December 7

micronation thingies

1. What would be the appropriate way to declare that one has just created a micronation?

2. What are the requirements (are there any?) to be on list of micronations?

3. What is the appropriate way to declare war on someone? I am having a land claim dispute over the southern hemisphere of Pluto and all the lands within a 100 yard radius of the south pole of Mercury, and would like to be able to not only declare a war, but also to do it right. and...

4. Do most people know what a flame war is? Because I don't want to have to define it in my war declaration... flaminglawyer^cneverforget 00:35, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

You may find Constitutive theory of statehood and Declarative theory of statehood worth reading. The requirement to be on our list of micronations is to be recognised as such (not necessary legally valid as such, though) by reliable sources (newspapers, say). This may help you with point 3 (you won't be a signatory to the Hague Convention of 1907, but it's a good guideline anyway). As for part 4, that would depend on who your intended audience is. You may also want to read Extraterrestrial real estate if you haven't already. --Tango (talk) 00:59, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

As for 3) - when I was at Grey College, the JCR declared war on Switzerland by passing a motion. I forget how exactly we told the Swiss about this, but as I recall one of the JCR officers was himself somewhat Swiss, so that probably sufficed. DuncanHill (talk) 01:04, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

As for the link to extraterrestrial real estate, I have not signed the UN's Outer Space Treaty, so their control over my ownership of a planet is therefore disputable. flaminglawyer^cneverforget 05:18, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

So you seriously believe that a treaty doesn't apply to you if you haven't personally signed up to it? Hmmm...well, good luck with that. It doesn't matter a damn whether YOU signed the treaty - what matters is whether the people you'd like to recognise your state signed up to it...the other nations of the solar system for example. Do you seriously believe that your claims will be worth ANYTHING at all if it came to any point when it actually mattered? At any rate - by the very definition of the word, you can't have a 'nation' (micro or otherwise) unless someone lives there - check out the definition of 'nation' in Wiktionary - and sovereignty. So unless you have people who are loyal to you living in these bizarre places - you don't have a nation - so your question is entirely moot. By all means treat what you're doing as a fun game between people with a shared interest in planets (or whatever) - but please don't delude yourself into thinking that it actually MEANS anything. SteveBaker (talk) 06:19, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

You need to have a population and you need to have territory, I'm not sure the population needs to live in the territory (it probably depends on your exact definition). Of course, a claim on land you have never even visited is never going to be recognised by anyone that matters. --Tango (talk) 13:45, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Somewhere on the article micronation, it says something about them being "not real nations but more like hobbies." That's what I'm doing. I'm not trying to get any nations to recognize me, or anything spiffy like that. It's just a hobby. And yes, I seriously believe that the UN treaty doesn't apply to me (not that it matters; note that I will in no way be able to enforce these land claims). And, for Tango, I have a population of 8 (not including non-humans) and territory measuring about 6 ft². flaminglawyer^cneverforget 21:07, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

So what do you want to actually achieve? If it's just a bit of fun, it doesn't matter how you do it. If you want to get a certain degree of fame out of it (and get on our list) then you need to do something interesting enough to get journalists to write about you. All the basic stuff has been done before, you need to come up with something new. --Tango (talk) 21:30, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

 Done OK, I'll stick a done tag on it and say it's done. Get ready to see something crazy done my new little nation. :) flaminglawyer^cneverforget 00:50, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

LOL, so someone could just unnoficially declare a country and automaticly it's notable? :-) ~AH1^(TCU) 00:08, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Anyone can declare a country, it doesn't necessarily mean it counts for anything! If other people start to notice it and it gets mentioned in press, yep, it could become notable. For example Kingdom of Lovely, which was started by Danny Wallace on his tv show How to Start Your Own Country (TV series), Something I really enjoyed watching!-- WORMMЯOW  10:49, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

To answer your fourth question I would say most people don't know what a flame war is given that most people have never used the internet Nil Einne (talk) 06:39, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

what is a Freeman-on-the-land

I've heard this word somewhere, i dont remember where and i want to know what is? Exdeathbr (talk) 03:37, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't mean this to be rude, but if you are internet savvy enough to post here, then I can't imagine why you didn't just plug the expression into Google to get your answer. A bounty of links to explore come up immediately, such as this explanatory one on the first results page. A 2-second search here also comes up with Beneficiary (trust)--71.247.123.9 (talk) 03:51, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Help improve Wikipedia

There are multiple sources showing that Ibyuk, located in the Pingo National Landmark, is the worlds second-tallest pingo and this is just one. What and where is the worlds tallest? I can't seem to find anything to indicate it. Of couse the answer will be added to the articles so it will actually improve Wikipedia. CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 05:02, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Damn Canadians—they'll tell you that theirs is the second tallest but won't give the tallest one of all any publicity, eh? My Googling is, like yours, coming up empty on this; but there's at least one source—the 2003 Guinness World Records—that says that Ibyuk is the "largest" pingo in the world. The snippet view on Google Books doesn't allow one to determine what, if any, distinction between largest and tallest they're making, though. The Science Desk may be a better forum for this query; I, at least, have nothing better to offer you. Deor (talk) 06:17, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I noticed that several hits said it was the largest but there does appear to be a difference between that and the tallest. CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 07:00, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

My google-fu is better this morning:

Pingo 18 (Ibyuk Pingo), whose summit rises about 49 m above the surrounding drained lake flat (Fig. 56), is the highest known pingo in Canada. The world's highest known pingo is Kadleroshilik Pingo which is 40 km southeast of Prudhoe Bay, Alaska. Its height, as given on a 1975 topographic map (Beechy Point (A-2), Alaska, scale 1: 63,360), is about 54 m above the adjacent lake plain or about 5 m higher than Ibyuk Pingo.

—J. Ross Mackay, "Pingo Growth and Collapse, Tuktoyaktuk Peninsula Area, Western Arctic Coast, Canada: A Long-Term Field Study," Géographie physique et Quaternaire 52.3 (1998).[1]

The Google cache version I've linked to above doesn't show the journal's page numbers, but the search results page indicates that the passage appears on page 311 of the issue cited. Deor (talk) 13:33, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Addendum: I couldn't get the PDF version of the article to load earlier, but here it is if you want it. (Its pagination doesn't match that of the journal appearance; the passage I've quoted can be found on page 41.) Deor (talk) 14:03, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Excellent. Thanks. I'd been through the google search several times but had never been able to come across the name before. I had assumed that due to the overwhelming results of Ibyuk that the highest would turn out to be some un-named pingo in Siberia. It's interesting that it is a place that is relatively accessible. Interesting what marketing will do. Though I suspect that it has more to do with the number of pingos available at the landmark. I grabbed the pdf and will read it properly later. I had a quick look and I'm hoping it gives some idea of the actual growth rate. Again the Ibyuk one is the only sourced pingo with a give growth rate. Thanks. CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 22:48, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Has Wikipedia spread the sum of human knowledge?

Just a thought that occurred whilst browsing Wikipedia - has the relatively recent availability of knowledge-based-sites such as Wikipedia helped to spread, and thus increase, the sum of human knowledge; or have they merely diverted knowledge seekers away from other information sources such as libraries, encyclopaedias etc? I suppose what I am really asking is whether the sum of human knowledge is much the same as pre-internet, but more widely spread and readily available? 92.23.209.233 (talk) 13:40, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

What does "the sum of human knowledge" means? If last year 10,000 people could correctly say whether the miner's museum in my home town was previously a railroad station, and this year 12,000 can? Or, if last year I knew 50,000 facts and Fred knew one, and this year's totals are 100,000 for me and 1 for Fred, has the sum of Dave/Fred knowledge doubled -- and if so, so what?

Being listed in Wikipedia doesn't make something factual, let alone widely known. Such listing could increase access to that information, on the assumption that more people can reach Wikipedia than could find the same information at a library or in a print encyclopedia. That access, and tools to increase the power of that access (through filters, tags, correlation, and so on) are probably the most significant contribution of the internet to human knowledge. --- OtherDave (talk) 14:02, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, it's hard to quantify knowledge. But when you think about the time it takes to get to the library, look up a particular topic, find the appropriate books, and browse through those books to see if they contain the information you're looking for, and then you think about the number of Wikipedia articles you could have read in that time... well, it's impossible to deny that the internet, and especially knowledge-based sites like Wikipedia, have made general information more readily available. Moreover, Wikipedia doesn't replace libraries any more than print encyclopedias replace libraries. But it does offer immediate answers to casual inquiries, which is something that cannot be said for libraries (or encyclopedias, unless you have the privilege of owning one). I'm constantly running to the computer to look up things I'm idly curious about; ten years ago, was I constantly running to the library? Heck no. And that's despite having flexible work hours and a library a mile from my house, which are two things most people cannot boast. So I guess my answer to your question is this (and this is entirely supposition): Wikipedia has made college students more lazy. College students typically have extraordinary access to print information and online catalogues which most of us do not, and they are probably, yes, availing themselves less of those resources. College students are also, however, a relatively small subset of the population. For the majority of the internet-using public (primary and secondary school students, working non-academics, computer-savvy seniors, etc), general information is now empirically accessible on request in a way that it previously, quite simply, wasn't. Are we all availing ourselves of these resources? Probably not. But information is something that spreads virally, so even if only a smattering of people in a given community regularly obtain and retain accurate information from the internet, much of that community will then be able to access that information interpersonally and to perpetuate it in other ways. But there's misinformation in there too, and plenty of other factors which make a cut-and-dry answer to your question impossible. So: have we increased the sum of human knowledge? Who knows. But I do think we've made widespread ignorance less excusable. --Fullobeans (talk) 17:24, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

• I am of the opinion that Wikipedia has helped spread knowledge, but there's still a long way to go. For a start people still need to learn what makes information and sources reliable and how to search for information in libraries, papers, journals and encyclopedias when the internet doesn't have it stored somewhere accesible. A lot of people still believe everything they read and give up if they can't google something. - 87.211.75.45 (talk) 16:53, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

One of the things that Wikipedia should be thanked for is the ability to collect a lot of disparate information about a subect in a way that enables a bigger picture to be built up, and to make it available to the world immediately. There are many examples of this, but take one I have been recently hard at work on. I came across a reference to a man named Werner Reinhart while researching another topic. The name meant nothing to me, and we had no article on him, but I had reason to put him on my "Names to Research" list. I found there is a French biography of him, but nothing in German (he was Swiss) or English. But there are all sorts of snippets about him if you look hard enough, and all it takes is someone with sufficient interest and time to hunt them down and write a coherent article about him. Although virtually unknown nowadays, Reinhart was still very notable by our standards, and his influence on many important 20th century cultural figures should not be forgotten. Without the internet, I would almost certainly never have come across his name at all, or if I had, it would have taken me literally years to find what I've been able to find about him in just a few days. But having gathered all this information, what would I have done with it if Wikipedia did not exist? Who would I tell? If I were connected to the academic world, it might have found its way into some learned journal, but even then, those without subscriptions would have been denied this knowledge. Thanks to Wikipedia, I don't have to worry about who may or may not be interested in this guy. Those who see the links I've created in other articles will, if they're interested enough, click on them and learn about this significant cultural figure. And who knows, this may spark more research and a resurgence of interest in him. It's early days, but I'm sure, in time, others will add to the miserable stub I've created. To me, this process is definitely about adding to the sum of human knowledge. The "net sum" view (verifiable information minus misinformation = net sum) may have some validity, but creating verifiable information is always a worthwhile thing to do. -- JackofOz (talk) 22:07, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

People read Wikipedia - they occasionally learn something - obviously, if Wikipedia didn't exist, they might look up (and find) the knowledge someplace else - but there must be cases where people look things up ONLY because it's so convenient. So I think it's safe to say that the knowledge humanity has is certainly spread over more people because of Wikipedia.

However, the sum total of things that humans as a species know is not increased by Wikipedia (or at least it's not supposed to be). We work hard to only include knowledge that has been reported in other places. I suppose we might retain knowledge that otherwise might have been forgotten - so perhaps in that regard we increase the total amount of knowledge that's RETAINED at any given time - but even that is unlikely because it would require that somehow all of the documents we cite as references were somehow destroyed as well as all human memory of the fact. In such cases, it's debatable whether we'd keep the fact anyway. Since the reference(s) are no longer checkable - we have no way to know that the fact was ever real - so we might well delete the last remaining note about the fact and destroy some human knowledge. But that's a bit of a stretch. SteveBaker (talk) 04:40, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Sliced bread

One used to have a choice between thin-, medium-, and thick- sliced bread. Nowadays, alas, one is denied the thin option. Why is this? DuncanHill (talk) 16:50, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

• I'm assuming you're referring to US bakeries? In the Netherlands, you get just one choice, the setting on the slicing machine. -- 87.211.75.45 (talk) 16:56, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, should have been specific - I meant grocers' and supermarkets in Britain. DuncanHill (talk) 17:05, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

I can't say I've noticed (I normally buy medium), but if it has happened it will be because there weren't enough people buying thin cut bread (perhaps because it falls apart too easily). --Tango (talk) 17:09, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

An interesting question this : I like Asda's wholegrain bread but it comes unsliced though they will, if you ask, unwrap it and slice it on their single thickness slicing machine before re-wrapping it for you. The best medium thickness sliced loaf has surely got to be the Co-op's Granary Loaf - and a second runner-up has got to be Morrison's wholemeal granary loaf though it does tend towards being very small. 92.23.209.233 (talk) 17:20, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

In Australia, pre-wrapped sliced bread comes in 2 thicknesses: "toast" is a little thicker than "sandwich". Not every brand has both, but if you're looking for one or the other thickness, there are plenty of options to choose from. Thanks for the opportunity to use the word "thicknesses", which is, I believe, a first for me. -- JackofOz (talk) 21:30, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Jack, have you found "café thickness" for fruit infused bread? A slice is about the thickness of a 300+-page book.

No, I can't say I've ever seen that precise term on a packet of bread, but the fruit bread/raisin bread etc is almost always of the more thickly sliced variety. Maybe I've seen "café style" or something like that. -- JackofOz (talk) 22:58, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

In the US bread is almost always pre-sliced, and they don't specify the thickness of the slices on the package. It seems to me they are all similar thicknesses, with the exception of "diet bread", which is sliced thinner. StuRat (talk) 00:05, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I was confused when I saw this thread since I’ve never heard of such a thing. --S.dedalus (talk) 01:26, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

In the U.S., Pepperidge Farm does offer a line of thin-sliced breads, but generally most pre-sliced bread is all roughly the same thickness. Of course, if you go to the bakery at the grocery store yourself, they will slice an unsliced loaf to any thickness you request... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 03:20, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

For the record, in NZ most bakeries can slice to preferred thickness, and pre-sliced packaged bread (from supermarkets etc) come in "toast" and "sandwich", with some brands offering "extra thick" or "extra thin". But the ultimate is Vogel's Original which comes in Toast, Sandwich, Very Thin, Long Cut and Unsliced. Ymmm.
But to get back to DuncanHill's question, it probably comes down to demand. Shops stock what people want. If no one wants thin sliced bread anymore, they don't stock it. Gwinva (talk) 03:30, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

See also Texas toast, sold in many U.S. stores. Edison (talk) 04:03, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Ah surrenduh. Yet anuther kahnd of thickness raised in Texas. someone had to do it *sigh* Julia Rossi (talk) 04:29, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

EVERYTHING is bigger in Texas! SteveBaker (talk) 13:44, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

In stores here is North Carolina, they sell "New York Brand Italian Texas Toast". If that doesn't make your head spin... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 19:05, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Eeyee! My head hurts. So the 'brand' is Brand and 'toast' is Toast?! SteveBaker (talk) 21:10, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

In the US, you can buy "sandwich sliced" bread, which is thinner than the regular kind. Little Red Riding Hoodtalk 00:06, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

I noticed here that the breads seem to match StuRat's comment in that the diet breads are the thinest cut. The are at more than CAN$6.00 a loaf the most expensive. The medium cuts at CAN$3.00 a loaf are the cheapest. CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 07:35, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

So when they say "half the calories of ordinary sliced bread" - what they actually mean is "half the bread of ordinary sliced bread"?! SteveBaker (talk) 13:44, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

That's right. A large percentage of "diet" products simply have smaller servings. Which can mean thinner slices, added water or air, or simply stating that there are more servings per package on the nutritional label. You can offer a chocolate bar with a 0.1 gram serving that has no fat, sugar, or calories, when you round down, of course. StuRat (talk) 17:02, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Seems they're on to the same strategy as the dietician Marjorie Dawes (Matt Lucas) in Little Britain, who came up with the wonderful idea that to halve your calorie intake, all you need to do is cut your portions in half; and then, because you're consuming so many fewer calories, you can eat twice as much food. I like that kind of logic. -- JackofOz (talk) 21:22, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

how to achieve this haircut

how can i do this

i need instructions

http://www.4hairstyles.com/mens/xshort/3.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.18.60.32 (talk) 20:58, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Go to a barbers/hairdressers and show them that picture and say "I want this". They will then cut your hair appropriately and show you how to gel/wax it (they'll probably even sell you (massively overpriced) gel/wax). --Tango (talk) 21:28, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

If you can't or don't want to go to a barber, just look closely at the picture: the sides are uniformly short (I'm sure the back is too), whereas the top is a few inches long. I'd say clipper the sides and back (assuming you have electric clippers) and trim the top with scissors until it's the right length (or, if your hair's really short, leave the top alone and let it grow out). You'll probably want to trim (with scissors) the "border" of the long part so that the long part fades into the short part instead of just stopping suddenly. And, most importantly, go down to the pharmacy and buy some styling products-- you want something with a name like "wax" or "putty", maybe one that imparts "gloss" or "shine". The guy in the picture also has some understated highlighting going on, but I wouldn't try that at home. Bad highlights can be more disastrous than a bad haircut. --Fullobeans (talk) 04:23, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

And just in case you're really, really new to this: cut your hair one small piece at a time, pausing frequently to check that the pieces are the same length. Don't cut too much off at once; you can always go back and trim more later. And it's possible to rig up a system of mirrors so you can see the back of your head, but it's easier just to have someone else do the back for you (or check that it looks ok once you're done). --Fullobeans (talk) 04:36, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

And finally, if you manage to show up in person in front of this very WP:reference desk for miscellaneous hirsute matters, we do have trained librarians of encyclopedic skills at your disposal who cut your hair, iron your knickers, defluff your belly button and tickle your armpits in the futile pursuit of providing greater knowledge for humankind. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 23:32, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Bikini waxing responsibilities have been transferred to the entertainment desk. --Fullobeans (talk) 04:38, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

what size of object can a tapir pick up with his nose?

what size of object can a tapir pick up with his nose? FireSkater (talk) 22:51, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

In Tapir, the nose is used to grasp leaves. It's a herbivore, foraging for "fruit, berries, and leaves" as well as river plants, and depends on the nose to smell. Julia Rossi (talk) 00:28, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

We had this question just a few weeks ago. You might want to check the archives. SteveBaker (talk) 03:34, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

OK - August...not "a few weeks ago": Try this link. SteveBaker (talk) 03:54, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

It appears that our OP is a sock puppet of the (indefinitely banned) user who asked the question last time around. You can run but you can't hide. <sigh> SteveBaker (talk) 17:06, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

December 8

Ditto

<moved, here you go[2]> Julia Rossi (talk) 00:34, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

You should ask this as the Entertainment desk. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 00:01, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

White Representatives representing majority-black districts in the US Congress

The article on Steve Cohen states that he is one of two such representatives currently in Congress, but does not list the other, nor does its reference. I wasn't able to find out who the other one is using Google, either - the closest I could find was Chris Bell, whose district became majority-black after Tom DeLay's infamous Texas redistricting, but he was defeated in the 2004 primary. Anyone know who the second Representative is? -Elmer Clark (talk) 02:08, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, this New York Times article seems to contradict the article's reference and claims that Cohen is the only such Representative. It could be that the reference and our article are just wrong. If no one comes up with a second Representative, I'll bring this up on the talk page. -Elmer Clark (talk) 02:18, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

It may be true if you consider strictly majority black districts, of which there are VERY few. I did some mostly hunt-and-peck research using this map and this website. I found VERY few districts which were actually >50% black; many with sizable non-white population reported large (15-20%) "Other Race" data, making it unlikely to have ANY majority race in such districts. However, if we consider districts that are only a plurality black (that is, black is the largest single racial group, but not necessarily >50%) then José Serrano, a white Puerto Rican of New York's 16th congressional district, which has a 36% Black/20% White/34% Other breakdown, would qualify. There may be others like this. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 03:16, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I think it might be referring to Bob Brady, who represents Pennsylvania's 1st congressional district, which is 45.9% black (and 37.1% white), although that isn't quite a majority. This New York Beacon article (written before Cohen's election) calls Brady the "only...White representative of a majority Black District." Perhaps it was majority black at some point in the recent past. -Elmer Clark (talk) 06:28, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Music in Rolls Royce video

Can someone please tell me what is the music in this video with the matte black Rolls Royce Phantom? It sounds vaguely familiar to me. --Blue387 (talk) 06:00, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Some good music id-ers are at the Entertainment desk. Julia Rossi (talk) 06:09, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Duel of the Fates from the Star Wars films, —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.242.181.183 (talk) 17:27, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

bulb explodes?

I have experienced a few times that life of Incandescent light bulb ends when filament breaks typically while switching it on (it turns on for split second and then goes off). But this time, when I switched on this bulb, it exploded and I heard pieces of glass falling on ground. The circuit breaker tripped and all other lights went off, therefore I could not see whether the bulb fall down and then pieces spread around or they were thrown away due to explosion (around 5 to 6 feet away). The cap of the bulb was still there properly in the bulb holder. The bulb was in use for more than a year but generally only a few hours a week. The bulb was on ceiling, no water contact or any other physical damage. What are possible reasons for explosion of incandescent bulb? manya (talk) 06:23, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

In some bulbs the filament is not straight; for example, it may be supported on a little stand in an arch shape. If such a filament breaks, the broken pieces may fall together so that they touch each other and make a short circuit within the bulb. The resistance is less than it would be with the normal filament, so it burns hotter and brighter (and sometimes you can hear it making a sound, too). It can get so hot it causes damage. The one time I saw it happen, it burned brightly and made a sound for a few seconds first, and then a chunk of filament blew out and made a hole in the bulb. But you can see that an even shorter circuit might make enough heat to explode the bulb before your breaker can trip. --Anonymous, 07:28 UTC, December 8, 2008.

(ec) Unfortunally the link just leads to the Philips site and asks me what language I want. If for example though you were using a Halogen lamp it's possible that you may have touched the glass at an earlier time which might cause it to explode. CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 07:29, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

(slightly related) - I was once bored at a friends house and knocked his lightbulb with my knuckles, for some unknown (to me) reason the bulb got about twice as bright. It stayed that way from that point forward. Just to add - no it wasn't on a dimmer switch, just a standard on/off switch ceiling light bulb. 194.221.133.226 (talk) 09:16, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

I've seen the same phenomenon before. At university, we'd take to swatting each other's lamps to achieve the effect. The bulb typically burned out rather quickly afterwards, sometimes on the order of hours or days, though some lasted out the semester. Matt Deres (talk) 19:46, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

It's worth noting that the inside of a light bulb is incredibly fragile compared to the outside. --Sean 13:35, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

I suppose it's also possible that the glass had cracked or the seal at the base had failed and that air had leaked into the bulb. The filament burns up incredibly quickly in air...maybe fast enough to make the glass shatter. SteveBaker (talk) 13:40, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

I wouldn't discount the idea of leaking water, as it would explain both the bulb imploding (not exploding, since it's under a vacuum) and the short circuit that you seem to have experienced. Water from condensation (are you boiling water or using a humidifier ?) or leaking from the roof (caused perhaps by an ice dam) can make it's way along a floor/ceiling into a light fixture on the ceiling and cause just such problems. If it was only a drip or two, all evidence may have evaporated after the bulb imploded. One other comment, light fixtures do normally have a cover that goes over the bulb to prevent falling glass, they aren't just for collecting dead bugs. StuRat (talk) 16:47, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

It's been a long time since light bulbs were evacuated. These days they are filled with some kind of inert gas. Argon, Neon or Nitrogen typically. So water could crack or even break the glass due to thermal shock - but that would not be either an explosion or an implosion (although it might appear to be so to the causal observer). SteveBaker (talk) 17:03, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

I believe they do both. That is, the fill them with an inert gas then evacuate it. This way there is very little gas in it, and none of it is oxygen. StuRat (talk) 17:44, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

How strange, I now have a vision of various inert gasses looking out a train window as it pull out of a London station with Vera Lynn singing in the background. CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 13:18, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Thank you all. After reading your comments, now I think I know what happened. On previous day, I had switched it on and off for couple of times in few seconds, before finally switching it off. The bulb may have developed a crack then due to rapid changes in temperature, which later resulted in explosion. manya (talk) 04:14, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Testimonial: this happens in my home every so often (and for a dog owner, even once is too often ;-/ We've considered it to possibly be caused by power surges in our electrical supply, a known problem in our semirural area. Perhaps you have a similar situation? (This might better be asked on the Science Ref Desk.) Deborahjay (talk) 19:26, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Tungsten is used in modern incandescent bulbs. It is rather brittle. If you flick the bulb,the vibration might cause the filament to break. As Anonymous said, a broken tungsten filament, being a long coil, can vibrate around and the broken piece touch a part of the filament or a filament support and weld itself there, creating a shorter filament which draws more current and burns brighter. This could explain 194's observation. In the earliest days of tungsten filaments, it was common try and repair them this way to get longer life, by getting the broken ends to reattach. If the resistance is too low, or if a broken piece bridges a short space between the leadin wires near the base, it could amount to a short(er) circuit than the bulb can tolerate or the breaker can supply, resulting in a small explosion. Modern bulbs other than the smallest wattage ones are filled with inert gases to slightly below atmospheric pressure. If the nitrogen (argon, etc) leaked out and air leaked in, the heated tungsten might combust causing an explosion. Edison (talk) 07:33, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

jewish

i was looking for a book written by a german author about a country he has never step foot on..could it be hitler with the main kampf? please help cos i never got an actual answer from you gyus. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.49.87.158 (talk) 08:24, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Our answer was: no, we didn't think that fitted. Mein Kampf is not about a country. Itsmejudith (talk) 09:00, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

The archive is here[3]. Hitler's name came up often in that thread and he qualifies as an author even though that book was not about the country, he writes about the Jews and others; but Karl May got an airing too and Hitler read his stuff. For my money, it's still on Adam Bishop's offering since you'd have to be a deep trivialist to get the others. Just guessing, Julia Rossi (talk) 09:06, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

I think that Sluzzelin's suggestion of Kafka was a good one—Amerika is a pretty famous example of an imaginative construction of a foreign setting that the author didn't have too much actual knowledge of. Whether K. qualifies as a "German author" is disputable, but he did write in German. Karl May is also a good suggestion, but the singular "a book" in the OP's question makes it unlikely that he is the writer the question's poser had in mind. The problem with the question is that it has a number of plausible answers. Deor (talk) 13:21, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

I notice that you include other information this time around. The first time, you neither mentioned "Jewish" nor "German" directly, though you did give "relation to Hitler" as a clue. You also asked for "a book about a people", this time it's about a country. These might seem like petty details, but the exact wording of the question does make a difference. Is this a question you have in written form, or is someone (you or another person) trying to remember a book they once heard about? Giving us context and details might help us find your one answer among the many plausible ones, as pointed out by Deor. ---Sluzzelin talk 16:11, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

This really could be anything. Theodor Mommsen never stepped foot in ancient Rome, how about that? Adam Bishop (talk) 02:17, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Completely off-topic here, but I have to say this reminds me of one of Douglas Adams' great lines: The past is truly a foreign country. They do things exactly the same there. If you haven't read the book, don't bother trying to understand it :-). --Trovatore (talk) 02:33, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Aunt Millie's strategy

In the US there's a bread maker with an unusual strategy, they position a product to directly compete with just about every other product on the market. That is, they have products that look like Sara Lee and Pepperidge Farms breads as well a generic brands. Are there any other products that have used such an aggressive marketing strategy ? StuRat (talk) 17:39, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

It is not addressed in the article, however Walgreens seems to have a store brand for many of the items they sell. For example, they have "Wal-zyr" as a Zyrtec equivalent, and Wal-adryl for Benadryl. Many of these are listed at their own site. --LarryMac | Talk 18:35, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Most store chains in Canada have the same kind of thing LarryMac describes; Zehrs markets have "President's Choice" brand everything, Sobey's has "Compliments" brand everything , etc. but I'm not sure that's what StuRat is talking about. Is Aunt Millie available at different stores, or is it a store brand as LarryMac and I described? TBH, what you describe doesn't seem that odd to me; a start-up soft drink company (for example) would have to make cola, clear, root beer, etc lines to compete with Coke/Pepsi and that just what the folks at RC Cola and the other companies do. I'm not familiar with Aunt Millie, but if I was starting a bread company, I'd certainly want to offer a full range of products, including those already made by competitors (if they make it, there's obviously some kind of market for it), though I get the feeling I've misunderstood the question. Matt Deres (talk) 19:55, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Not looking very far - almost all large corporate chain stores over here have own brands of practically everything - Lidl, Tesco, Carrefour - though one should be wary not to choose those items, as they tend to be (very) low quality. --Ouro (blah blah) 20:42, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Not necessarily. A lot of "own brand" products are made by the same manufacturers as "brand" products. Most supermarkets have three levels of quality - the "standard" range, the "luxury" range and the "budget" range - even the budget ranges can be perfectly acceptable quality. Exxolon (talk) 01:12, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Interestingly (though a little off-topic) in Canada, "President's Choice" products (Loblaw empire) are uniformly quite high-quality, just cheaper to buy. Franamax (talk) 21:29, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

I think I know what StuRat means: purposely making your products look similar to your main competitors. Take the Sainsburys brand in the UK: compare dishwasher lqd with leading competitor's. Compare colours chosen for beetroot: [4] against [5] and spaghetti [6] vs. [7]. (Just three examples). Packaging isn't designed to create an unmistakeable "Sainsbury's brand", but to look similar to main competitor at first glance. Gwinva (talk) 21:57, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

@Franamax, problem with that (here in Australia anyway) is that when producers sell in bulk to the chain (for its own generic brand) for x amount which goes on to retail at 2x amount, they are forced to make up the discount they have accepted by selling their own branded product for 2x + amount, affecting their ability to compete, afaik. @ OP, I guess the brand mirroring is something to do with a "tailgating" marketing strategy, scooping up the benefits of brand-building from the forerunners, and gaining sales/exposure by association. Hardly seems legal and I wonder if it's too close, would it stand a legal challenge, or whether companies let it go to benefit from shared exposure. Julia Rossi (talk) 22:06, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

To clarify, Aunt Millie's isn't a store brand. And, in any case, the store brands I've seen only imitate a small portion of the products out there. Generally they will have one store brand of bread, perhaps in white and wheat, for example, not imitate every competitor on the market, as Aunt Millie's does. The soft drink case would be another example. While Coke and Pepsi imitate each other, I don't believe they imitate all their smaller competitors, like Faygo Redpop. StuRat (talk) 01:08, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

repair clay tile roofs

How do I walk on a clay tile roof to make reairs? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.19.14.25 (talk) 22:16, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Generally tradesmen use a "walking board / roof ladder" which is strong enough to support your weight and which itself is suported by the weight bearing parts of the roof - whichever they are - presumably the apex. They also often (always?) hook over the apex to stop them sliding. Whatever you do be very careful on a roof. If in doubt, don't. Consider employing a tradesman. -- SGBailey (talk) 23:22, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

The trick is definitely to spread your weight across as many tiles as possible - a large thick board - or planks will do that. Crawl rather than walking to spread your weight out still further. But the problem is to avoid whatever you're walking on slipping down the roof and carrying you with it. It's pretty dangerous work. I've seen people do it with a pair of ladders. One stands against the edge of the roof from the ground and must be tied firmly to some part of the structure so it cannot move. (One way to do that is to place a scaffold-pole horizontally inside a window and to tie the ladder TIGHTLY to that.) A second ladder is laid flat onto the roof and it's lower end rests against (and is firmly tied to) the upper end of the first (which is why that first ladder has to be very firmly attached). That's enough to get you to some point on the roof (eg to replace a single tile or fix up your TV antenna) - but for serious jobs, you need to use proper scaffolding setups that give you a horizontal platform to work from. (Like this Image:Dachtreppe_Fanggerüst.JPG)...but this is exceedingly dangerous stuff and I don't recommend doing it unless you really know what you're doing (which you don't - or you wouldn't be asking us!) SteveBaker (talk) 03:07, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Steve, How the heck did you come up with that image just when you needed it to illustrate a point? -hydnjo talk 04:35, 9 December 2008

(UTC)

I typed 'scaffolding' into WikiCommons and looked at the gallery of pictures it produced in the hope that one of them would illustrate my point. Just as there are articles about EVERYTHING in Wikipedia (if you know how to search), so there are photos of EVERYTHING in WikiCommons...if you know how to search! SteveBaker (talk) 14:09, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

A wonderful image indeed. What I can't understand is why the small steps have been so carefully inserted under the tiles in a slightly uneven line when laying a ladder up the roof would have achieved a much better access. It looks more like an art installation than a serious roof access method. Richard Avery (talk) 08:53, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

I've seen serious roofing people doing that. It allows you to stand upright on the roof and walk across the roof as though it was a staircase. If you are carrying heavy loads of replacement roof tile - or bricks for a chimney - a sloping ladder limits you to carrying just one or two bricks/tiles each trip. It's OK for a quick job - but for anything serious, you need something like the gadgets illustrated in the photo. SteveBaker (talk) 14:09, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

You may be able to use two cushions from a sofa. Remove the covers, using only the foam. You can use them like you would use snow shoes, only laying down. —Preceding unsigned comment added by JelloTube (talk • contribs) 10:13, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

No! Cushions would just bend under your weight and apply 100% of your weight to a single tile - which would then break. You need something stiff to transfer your weight outwards - planks or a ladder or something like that. Depending on the age and quality of the tiles - you might need to spread your weight out over a dozen or more of them. I suppose snow shoes might work - but I wouldn't want to risk it! SteveBaker (talk) 14:09, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Snowshoes would be worse than cushions: on a hard surface, all your weight would be applied to the cleats or to the frame, depending on the design, and either would provide a greater load concentration than ordinary shoes. --Carnildo (talk) 23:19, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

December 9

usa elections 2008

please can you inform me about the percentage of youth ( less than 25 years old) that vote to President Obama —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.42.134.224 (talk) 00:32, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Since the US ballot is secret, that information is impossible to know. Little Red Riding Hoodtalk 01:14, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

(Rolls eyes) Ever hear of an exit poll? --98.217.8.46 (talk) 01:34, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Exit polls give an *estimate* of how many people *claimed* to have voted for a particular person. That's pretty close to what the OP asked for, but it's not the same. --Tango (talk) 01:38, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

According to CNN's reportage of exit polling, 68% of voters under 25 voted for Obama, in comparison with only 30% for McCain. (I found this by just Googling for "obama exit poll age", for future reference in your investigations.) --98.217.8.46 (talk) 01:35, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

What is Christmas in France like?

traditions, religious events, gift-giving, etc?

AlexBriggs12 (talk) 01:33, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

You might start by taking a look at Wikipedia's brief description of Christmas in France. If you can read French, you might take a look at the French article on Christmas. If you can't, it seems some of the key elements of the French Christmas are the Midnight Mass celebrating the birth of Jesus, the construction of nativity scenes, the myth of Santa Claus (known in French as Père Noël, or Father Christmas), setting up of Christmas trees, giving of gifts, and a festive meal consisting of turkey and a bûche de Noël. Marco polo (talk) 01:53, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

There are a few subtle differences - but no greater than you see from one English-speaking family to another within (say) the USA. My wife is French and we have a mixed anglo-french celebration. As already mentioned, one must have a bûche (it's a rolled up sponge-cake with a thick buttery chocolate frosting - dressed up to look kinda like a log). Gotta have a Galette des Rois also. But we also have a christmas pudding from the UK tradition (complete with sixpences, carefully hoarded since pre-decimalized currency in the UK). I'd say we pretty much do what most other people do. But all in all - I see much bigger differences between the way Xmas is celebrated between the USA and the UK than between either of them and France. SteveBaker (talk) 02:52, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

I live deep in the Midi (on the south coast of France) and down here Christmas used to be celebrated with a huge log (the Yule Log) that burned from Christmas Eve. Today the celebration is confined to Christmas Eve. Traditionally families gather and eat their way through the evening. No turkey, instead fillet steak, after foie gras. Many go to the Midnight Mass and then return home for dessert and presents. The party continues until people fall asleep - kids and all. No Boxing Day - just back to work (a bit blurry) on the 26th. Crackers are unknown, though sparklers and party poppers are here. Wife & I are honoured this year by an invite to a family on Christmas Eve. A rare event.90.9.81.70 (talk) 15:41, 9 December 2008 (UTC)DT

Yeah - I've done that too. But it's not that different. Most Brits do the whole celebration on the 25th - but quite a few Americans open presents on Xmas eve. Some Brits don't do present opening until after Xmas lunch - others suffer the kids waking up at 5am to do it! Also, I've not yet met an American who celebrates "boxing day" - that seems to be a uniquely British thing (although perhaps the Australians have retained that excuse to carry on partying). Americans eat turkey for Thanksgiving - and much, much less often for Xmas...Brits pretty much universally go for Turkey on the 25th. Hence my comment that the difference between French customs and British are no greater than between some Americans and some Brits. I'll say this though - in my experience - NOBODY parties like the French! SteveBaker (talk) 02:57, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

To Steve: Boxing Day is celebrated in most Commonwealth countries. And, despite what the article says, not all of us attend shop sales. In NZ, for example, it's common to have family picnics at the beach. Gwinva (talk) 03:09, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

In Canada, Boxing Day is just another day off work. Lots of people go shopping, but now that the sales continue during "Boxing Week", shopping on the 26th isn't necessary. Adam Bishop (talk) 13:47, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

For us, Anglo/French/adopted-Texans, Boxing Day is an important part of the celebrations - it's when we do "open house" - meaning come by anytime after about 10am and we'll stuff you full of booze and food and entertain the heck out of you until you stagger from the house - or we toss you out at about 10pm. It is a requirement of this policy that we invite EVERYONE - so if any of the RefDesk regulars is in Austin, Texas on the 26th and needs some help staying merry one more day...ping me a private email and I'll send you directions! SteveBaker (talk) 21:07, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Damn, I wish I could make it. I have relatives in Round Rock... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 03:01, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

@ Gwinva: It must be nice to be able to go to the beach on Xmas/Boxing DAy. Sighh, being a Canadian, if I went to a beach, I'd freeze to death. Genius101^Guestbook 21:27, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

I was never closer to dying of hypothermia than the time I went swimming at a beach near Devonport, Tasmania, in the middle of a heat wave in December. The waters of Bass Strait were like ice. Then I baked to death on the beach. I couldn't win either way, so I left in search of more clement climes. Mind you, not all Kiwis or Aussies go to the beach, particularly those who happen to live inland, and also those who live above the Tropic of Capricorn where beach swimming is often inadvisable, all year round. But we're there in spirit. -- JackofOz (talk) 03:24, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

It was cold, but you were able to tolerate it, apparently because you're not Canadian. I hadn't realized they had this problem with beaches; no one ever mentioned it when I lived in Toronto, but come to think of it I don't recall anyone suggesting beach trips.

I also don't remember the top halves of their heads floating up into the air when they talked. That must be an effect you can only capture in video. --Trovatore (talk) 03:46, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

So you weren't hanging out with these folks? If you look very, very closely, you can just see the gaps in their bisected heads. --Fullobeans (talk) 03:56, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

why are pineapples called pineapples?

I just want to know why are pineapples called pineapples. I would be happy for you th email the answet for it to <email removed>. thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by Js47588 (talk • contribs) 05:57, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Please read the instructions before posting here. Never put your email and always search Wikipedia first. If you'd bothered to do that you'd see the answer is in the first major section of our Pineapple article - see Pineapple#Etymology. Exxolon (talk) 06:12, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Simply means pine cones that are actually fruit (apples) which is what they look like. Pine cones are seeds for evergreen trees and are like a collection of pieces of bark but they have similar diamond shaped edges to pineapples. ~ R.T.G 08:40, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Exactly where are (were) the Bluezes and Chimney Sweep (Bronx, New York)?

Some years ago, in a Congressional Directory from (I believe) 1947, in the library of a previous workplace, there is a locational reference to "the Bluezes and Chimney Sweep" as being contained within a particular Bronx, New York congressional district. Several islands were also listed in that district, including Rat Island.

This recently came to mind, so I decided to try Google, and found three references in Google Books, all in similar geographical descriptions of legislative districts. These references were even older, going back to 1914, making the circa 1947 reference the most recent known to me.

So I am guessing that these terms are obsolete and have been in disuse for at least several decades. I'm also guessing that these terms may refer to channels of water, and not to land.

Any ideas? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Boomerpdx (talk • contribs) 07:03, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

This [8] has:

• The Chimney Sweeps Islands, New York is a pair of tiny islands in the northern part of City Island Harbor. They and High Island divide City Island Harbor from Pelham Bay. They are made of bedrock entirely. The two islands are inhabited by Gulls, Skuas and Great Blue Herons.
• The Blauzes are two tiny islands in City Island Harbor, off the northern tip of Hart Island. They are made totally of bedrock with a slightly blueish tint and are oddly semi-hemispherical in shape. They are jokingly referred to by local residents as the Blue Breasts because their very odd shape resembles that of a voluptuous woman's busom. They are inhabited by two Great Blue Herons in the day, where they sleep if there are no humans. Fishers use them by day. The islands were privately owned in the 20th Century, but may now belong to the NYC Parks Department.. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 14:14, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Ichthyophobia

This request for medical advice has been removed. Difficulties within your mind are just as problematic for us to help you with (maybe even more so) as physical ailments. If you're worried about your phobia, you will need to see a licensed practitioner in your area, such as a psychologist. If you're not sure how to get in contact with one, your family doctor should be able to help. Matt Deres (talk) 23:23, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Cooking with white wine

I've got about half a bottle of a decent Chablis that I don't want to drink. What can I cook with it? Thanks 86.7.238.145 (talk) 23:42, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Put it into salmon tagliatelli pasta, lol.-Proactive primrose (talk) 23:45, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Googling "white wine sauce" brought up quite a few results. I've had some good garlicky wine-based sauces on linguini in the past, and I often throw some white wine in pasta salads, dressings and the like. I could be imagining things, but I find that wine cuts the sharpness of vinegar without canceling the flavor. I can't think of any one recipe that would use the whole half bottle, though, so you might be better off just mailing it to me. I'll drink it. --Fullobeans (talk) 00:06, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

If it's decent and you don't want to drink it, why would you want to eat it? Julia Rossi (talk) 10:56, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

If it is a half bottle of Chablis, you would be better off giving it to a friend/relative who appreceiates good wine, and getting something cheaper to waste in your food :-) Astronaut (talk) 12:19, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

If it's an uncorked half-bottle - keep it for a special occasion, if it's kept in the dark and not allowed to get too hot - it'll still be good 10 to 15 years from now - and in all likelyhood, it'll be even better when you finally do have a reason to open it. If it's half empty bottle - then by the time you do anything with it, it won't be a good Chablis anymore (once it's opened, it goes downhill fast) - so stick some into the next sauce you make (it hardly matters what the sauce is!) and throw the rest away. SteveBaker (talk) 21:01, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Make Vinegar and use it in recipes that call for white wine vinegar. You can add interesting herbs and spices to create your own unique blend. or Add the wine to gelatin and sugar prepared with less liquid that making jello and drop the mix on plastic wrap to cool off. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.97.245.5 (talk) 16:55, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

December 10

Irish not jewish

i was looking for a book written by a German author about a country he has never step foot on..Please help cos i never got an actual answer from you guys. New Clue it's about the Irish People the book that is,, —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.1.26.36 (talk) 00:03, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

You'll never get an answer if you keep changing the question! APL (talk) 02:19, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Strangely enough, I think a book about Irish people might refer to Ireland. Gwinva (talk) 03:01, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

But you should keep trying to get a clue. --- OtherDave (talk) 04:04, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

I think you're now talking about Verarschen können wir uns selbst by Johann Wolfgang von Trollfutter. I read it for a while, but probably won't be reading it again. ---Sluzzelin talk 04:35, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Is it "Über Irland" by Karl Gottlieb Küttner, "the first German travel book to deal exclusively with Ireland"? Adam Bishop (talk) 04:41, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

No, he actually traveled to Dublin one stormy July 1783 and wrote about it in Briefe über Irland ("Letters on Ireland"), published in 1785. These days, the most famous book on Ireland by a German author is probably Heinrich Böll's Irisches Tagebuch ("Irish Journal", 1957), but Böll did visit Ireland. Sorry about my fictitious and angry answer above; I guess I lost the assumption of good faith this time around. ---Sluzzelin talk 04:59, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

If it involves Irish people, perhaps it's Thomas Mann's version of Tristan and Isolde titled Tristan. I've never read Mann's version myself, but I assume it to share the same common plot elements of most versions. Though Tristan is almost always a Briton, the main plot of the story always involves his adventures in Ireland. I don't see anything in Mann's biography that he ever visited Ireland, though he lived in Germany, Italy, Switzerland, Lithuania, and the U.S. If its about a German, writing about Ireland, though he never visited there, I'm going with Mann... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 05:36, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Ah, good guess, but that book has nothing to do with Ireland. Anticipating The Magic Mountain, most of it is staged in a German sanatorium called Einfried, here an allusion to Richard Wagner's home named Wahnfried. The title is a reference to Wagner's music: In a key scene one afternoon, Detlev Spinell listens to Gabriele Klöterjahn perform the "Liebestod" motif from Tristan und Isolde and is transfigured in ecstatic adoration. Of course there are other parallels to the Tristan and Iseult theme, but it's more of a parody on Wagner's version, and Ireland is far away. ---Sluzzelin talk 06:06, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Actually, very good guess. The answer might simply be Richard Wagner who of course wrote the libretto to Tristan und Isolde ("Irische Maid, Du wilde, minnige Maid! - Irish maid, my winsome, marvelous maid!" in the opening scene). I don't think Wagner ever visited Ireland. Then again, nor did Gottfried von Strassburg, but the Hitler connection fits Wagner better. ---Sluzzelin talk 06:24, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

I like that idea, but can Wagner's libretto to T&I be properly called a "book", or can we interpret that word with a little more latitude than we normally would? Was it ever published as a literary work, separate from the opera for which it was written? -- JackofOz (talk) 06:33, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

It's a "little book", literally :) ... Yeah, nor is Tristan "about the Irish people", but the clues haven't been that reliable so far, ... I don't know what to think. Maybe Tristan's crew fished for red herring while "the Irish people" were chasing wild geese. ---Sluzzelin talk 06:38, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

It's not a book—at this point I'm not sure that matters, though—but a number of those stupid circulating lists of (extremely dubious) "strange facts" contain the statement "'When Irish Eyes Are Smiling' was written by a German, George Graff, who never set foot in Ireland."[9] Our article on the song attributes the lyrics to Chauncey Olcott and George Graff, Jr., the latter of whom is called (in the article on him) "a United States songwriter." Deor (talk) 13:10, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

According to the IMDB, George Graff Jr. was born in New York City and died in Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania after spending many years as an ASCAP executive. --NellieBly (talk) 19:10, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

"Please help cos i never got an actual answer from you guys." Every cent you have paid for this service will be cheerfully refunded. --LarryMac | Talk 18:32, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Gacy

Does anyone know where to get the floor plan for John Wayne Gacy's house? I'm reading a book about the killings and a floor plan would help. 8213 West Summerdale, Des Plaines, Il. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.225.133.60 (talk) 09:52, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Just to make it clear to whoever answers, 8213 West Summerdale was John Wayne Gacy's address - I nearly removed the address to protect the OP's privacy! Astronaut (talk) 12:01, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

I think there's a floorplan in the book 30 Below. Little Red Riding Hoodtalk 01:00, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

There is indeed a floorplan there. However, it is not defined enough to make out the actual picture. —Preceding unsigned comment added by JelloTube (talk • contribs) 04:31, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

GST refund in singapore

I am a PRC citizen holding Singapore Student pass. My friend told me that I cannot claim for tax refund when leaving Singapore during holidays, but I found a website, it says You are eligible if you are not a citizen or permanent resident of Singapore, and if you have not exercised employment in Singapore during the past 12 months. but it does not mention students. Am I eligible?--Bencmq (talk) 12:19, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

More info at http://www.customs.gov.sg/leftNav/trav/Tourist+Refund+Scheme.htm William Avery (talk) 12:36, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Thank you so much.--Bencmq (talk) 14:36, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Midtown Manhattan restaurants

We're taking the kids to Rockefeller Center this weekend and I'm looking for any recommendations as to restaurants that are geared towards children. It's been some time since we've taken the kids to midtown, and I can't remember anything of note. Price isn't that big a deal, although I'd rather not pay an arm and a leg for chicken fingers and fries. The only thing I can think of is the food court at Rockefeller Center. If the Fat Man wants to take a break from his campaign and chime in, that would be most welcome. Thanks. 98.235.67.132 (talk) 13:49, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

I have a number of (adult) friends who are secretly in love with Mars 2112. --Fullobeans (talk) 15:05, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

If you are willing to venture a little south of Midtown (take the subway, the kids'll LOVE it), there are two great places I remember. I was there last about 10 years ago, but there's a Jekyl and Hyde-themed restaurant that was in Greenwich Village that was really cool if you had kids of the right age (like, say, 3rd grade or older; really young kids may be freaked out). See [10]. There's also South Street Seaport at Pier 17, which is really close to Wall Street and Battery Park and the Statue of Liberty, and has some really cool stuff to do, as well as a food court. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 18:23, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

That's too funny. My eyes lit up when I saw the title to this section and was even more tickled that you invoked me by name. The sad truth is: A) Rockefeller Center is sooooo not my neighborhood and B) Outside of Park Slope, Brooklyn, I know nothing about family-friendly eateries and regard children as some sort of alien life form. Also, as a food snob, I cannot condone themed "restaurants" like Mars 2112 or Jekyll and Hyde (is that place still open?) or, say, that Ninja-themed restaurant (which I hear is waaaaay expensive), but I must acknowledge that, by all accounts, kids go nuts for these types of places.

If the Fat Man had kids, he and the Fat Woman would take them somewhere with serious food and a "special" atmosphere like Shun Lee Palace. But the best advice I can give you about NYC dining: get off of the Reference Desk and go over to Chowhound. You will find the users of that forum to be far more knowledgeable (and civil--thanks to strict moderation) than your average Wikipedian. I just did a search for you and found several relevant threads about midtown dining with kiddies (this one, for example, recommends Virgil's BBQ), but you may want to register there and start your own topic. Happy eating, The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 05:31, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately, "kid-friendly" and "serious dining establishment" are usually mutually exclusive. Most of the time, "kid friendly" restaurants contain lots of distractions for said kids, thus are usually "themed" restaurants. If themed restaurants are not your style, you might try to find restaurants where the food is prepared at the table, or where the kitchen is visible. Tappanyaki-style Japanese restaurants (actually, these are almost always tourists traps, but less so than themed restaurants) may qualify, as may sushi restaurants, if your kids are adventurous. There's also "fondue" restuarants like "The Melting Pot" (I have no idea if there are any on Manhattan) or places that advertise themselves as "wood-fired" cookeries; you often can see the chefs at work in the middle of the restaurant. Those sort of places may be more interesting for your kids than the typical quiet "serious" restaurants... --Jayron32.talk.contribs 19:54, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

My child guests have always enjoyed Ellen's Starburst Diner on Broadway near 50th (couple of doors up from the Winter Garden and Mamma Mia!) It's a bit of a tourist trap and can get crowded around curtain time, but the singing waitstaff is irresistible. The menu is malt-shop and American comfort food, and not too expensive by NYC standards. Staff and menu alike are highly kid-friendly. Catrionak (talk) 16:22, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Hey, thanks for all the wonderful suggestions. The kids have tired of Mars 2112 after going there with their grandparents a couple of times. It looks like it's going to be, gulp, the American Girl Cafe. Looks like ol' dad's going to be slipping a little Old Granddad in his heavy winter coat and sliding off to the men's room once or twice, not that it's going to be crowded or anything. Mr. Fat Man, thanks especially for the Chowhound referral. My suggestion of leaving Manhattan for Peter Luger was summarily rejected. Girls. Huh.98.235.67.132 (talk) 04:35, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Dear God, for the love of all that is holy! Take courage, anon friend, and pray that dry-aged porterhouses await you in heaven.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 08:08, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

EMBA

how project evaluation is different from project appraisal?support with examples121.245.5.50 (talk) 14:46, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Either do you own assignment or give us the EMBA certificate at the end of it. --Tango (talk) 18:00, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Car door freezes.

Will coating the rubber seal around the door with petroleum jelly damage it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.41.177.228 (talk) 14:57, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

That's a good question. Some polymers don't like petroleum jelly; others are just fine with it. I would hope and suspect – but cannot guarantee – that your car's manufacturer has chosen materials which (given their working environment) can tolerate a bit of oil and grease. If the car isn't too many years old, you might try contacting the dealership. The mechanics there might a) know if the seals will tolerate petroleum jelly, or b) be able to suggest an alternative.

A number of years ago, I had a four-month contract working at an aircraft maintenance facility. The guys in the shop introduced me to spray-on Teflon (polytetrafluoroethylene, or PTFE) dry lubricants. They sprayed it on the seals and gaskets around airplane doors. The Teflon stuff has the advantage of being dry to the touch – it won't attract dirt and it won't transfer gooey, grimy nastiness on to your clothing if you rub up against it. A bit of Google-Fu finds a number of suppliers, including Amazon (in the U.S.: [11]). A well-stocked hardware store should have something similar on the shelves. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 15:16, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

What I've used is silicone grease. This was the recommended conditioner for the roof seals of my Honda Civic del Sol, which were essentially the same as door gaskets. You can get it in a tube (like toothpaste) at an auto parts store. It may also be called "dielectric grease", because it is an insulating grease also used for spark plug boots. You do not want silicone gasket compounds, which "set up" or harden to a rubbery texture, but you may find the grease in the same section of the store. -- Coneslayer (talk) 16:36, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Certainly silicone and other gel-like materials are nasty because they WILL get all over your clothes - and they'll collect dirt and dust like crazy...so that's pretty much a non-starter. I've used PTFE spray on car door seals (not so much to stop them getting stuck together when freezing - but to stop 40 year old rubber degrading on a classic car restoration). It's not supposed to affect rubber - but some of the wierd plastics might get affected. You should try it somewhere where it doesn't matter too much (maybe the trunk trim or something) before you spray the whole lot. The concern I'd have is how you're going to apply the stuff while the rubber is still attached to the car. You most definitely do NOT want PTFE on leather or cloth seats or on the car paintwork. I have no problem with my classic car restoration because I do it before I install the rubber onto the car. I guess you could try spraying it onto a clean lint-free cloth and then quickly wiping down the rubber seals...I've never tried that. SteveBaker (talk) 20:53, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

If you are talking about the car door freezing shut in cold weather, it is usually just the lock or the hinges that freeze due to moisture entering and freezing. If the ice seal really is occurring along your weather stripping, this site suggests that petroleum-based products, such as petroleum jelly, would be harmful to the rubber seal. It suggests an alternative application for that seal. Marco polo (talk) 02:25, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

OK - first of all ANY site...ANY site...that tells you to lubricate a lock with WD40 is a site you should run screaming from. Never oil a lock. Use dry graphite. Any oily liquid you put in there will attract dirt and dust which will form a gummy mess which will mess up the lock in short order. So whether the rest of their advice is any good has to be treated with a measure of caution! I asked around in my classic car group - and they reminded me that another great treatment for rubber seals is Johnson's Baby Oil (I'm told that no other brand should be used). This stuff is actually absorbed by the rubber and makes it more supple. You can restore rubber and plastic that's gone hard using baby oil too. Because it's absorbed into the rubber - it doesn't sit on the surface where it can attract dust and dirt or get onto your clothes. Rub a generous amount onto the rubber - let it sit there for a few minutes - then rub as much of it off of the surface as you can. But PTFE spray is also acceptable if you're only trying to prevent freezing. SteveBaker (talk) 06:34, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Waterproof coating used in the construction of Cesar Manrique's House, Lanzarote

Does anybody know what compound is used to create the dazzling white finish within the rooms of Cesar Manrique's house in Lanzarote? It is also appears to be the same compound which is used for the creation of the pool at Jameos del Agua also created by Manrique on the island. It seems to be a white plasticated substance which is completely waterpoof and easily maintained. ThanksCoelo115 (talk) 18:58, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

I believe this is the stuff the OP is referring to. --Sean 19:58, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

It looks like clear-cote'd fibreglass to me...but it's hard to tell without being able to examine it up-close. SteveBaker (talk) 20:47, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Sean. It appeared to me more like a viscous liquid based substance which could be painted on. I am not sure if clear coated fibreglass would fall into that category? I have a couple of cellars and outhouses which are a bit on the damp side and this stuff looks as if it may cheer them up and make them more useable spaces. 86.152.140.255 (talk) 12:11, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Factories often get their floors painted with stuff (usually grey!) that looks a little like this. It is glossy but very hard wearing. -- SGBailey (talk) 21:50, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Isn't that a bit slippery for a floor? --S.dedalus (talk) 09:07, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Feces Fetish

<removed> Please seek professional help for this problematic behaviour. The reference desk is not able to provide it. Julia Rossi (talk) 21:54, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

December 11

Clip for cutting hair

I came across one of those "order now" products on TV earlier today. It was a clip that you could fix in your hair to give you a straight line to cut along. Murphy's law struck and the one time they actually have something that looks useful to me my hands are full, the basement is flooded, the cat wants to come in etc. I googled all sort of combinations of what I remembered from the ad, but couldn't find anything. The ad did have a website shown, but I can't remember what it was. Does anyone by any chance know the product name, or the site?? 76.97.245.5 (talk) 00:59, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

http://www.creaclip.com/ ? -- SGBailey (talk) 07:33, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks that was what I was looking for. Hope those things will work. I'll give them a try. 76.97.245.5 (talk) 13:53, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Freud's myth of primal crime

Are there academics in cultural anthropology who are studying the cultural transitions of human evolution and who are focusing on the idea of a primal crime? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.165.55.126 (talk) 18:43, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Are there any here[12]? Psychohistory may be connected and lists among others, Freud and his work Civilization and Its Discontents Julia Rossi (talk) 08:22, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Iris flowers

I have been given several different colored iris plants, including the ordinary purple ones. However, all the blooms are now white. I am trying to find out why. Can you help me? I'm in California, USA. Majhm35 (talk) 18:50, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Several flowers are colored by compounds which are pH indicators, that is they are compounds which change color depending on the pH level of the solution they are dissolved in. Usually, these are pink and/or blue and/or purple colors. These flowers change their color depending on the pH of the soil they are planted in. There is a discussion of this at the bottom of the pH indicator article. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 19:46, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Thank you, Jayron32. I will get the soil tested. But now I need to know if irises need acidic or alkaline conditions to bloom true to original color. Majhm35 (talk) 00:02, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

I have no idea. Do a quick experiment (if you don't mind sacrificing a few irises). Take some cut irises, along a series of glasses with water of different pH (like say each 1.0 pH from like 4.0-9.0 or so). Place the stem of a cut flower in the each glass, and watch what happens. If I am right on this, then there should, after a day or so, be noticible change in the colors of each flower. This should work unless the color gets "locked in" before the flower is formed; which may also be the case, in which case you could plant some fresh iris seeds in soils of varying pH. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 02:59, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Iris (plant) recommends peat or loam so that would indicate acidic, but e.g. for Iris germanica alkaline soil is recommended. Opinions vary, generally "bearded" varieties seem to prefer (slightly) alkaline 7+ and non-bearded do better in acidic soils 6-7. For more details you'd have to find out exactly what cultivars you're dealing with. Haven't heard of the PH affecting color for irises, though. If you have Iris that bloom twice a year, in spring and in the fall, then for some varieties it isn't uncommon for the second bloom to have a different color. Or you may have planted them too close and the white ones have won the "natural selection" battle for that site. I assume from your post that we are not talking bulbs but rhizomes. Hope this helps. 76.97.245.5 (talk) 06:38, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Actually, these are blooming right now ( November-December!!!) So I will watch and see what they do next spring! They have been moved from their original spots, but until they multiplied they were never too close together. (And except for the purple ones and one peach, have always bloomed white.) And yes, they are rhyzomes. (I also have the Dutch iris, which are bulbs, but no problem with their color -- so far!) Thank you, all, for all of your help with this.Majhm35 (talk) 18:39, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Sebastian's Journal?

Does anyone know where I could find a journal that closely resembles the one Sebastian used in Cruel Intentions ? I've been searching all over the internet with no luck. Thank youBreadchastick (talk) 23:03, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Can you link to a still photo or a video clip? --Fullobeans (talk) 23:28, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

It looks like standard A4 paper with plastic ring bind. SN0WKITT3N 10:12, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

I did a Google image search and, although I have no idea if the journal I found was the one you refer to, it appeared to be an unruled sketchbook with a black plastic comb binding. Your best bet would be checking art supply stores or calling stationers. You can buy relatively inexpensive comb binding machines, or order bulk comb-bound notebooks from various suppliers, so it would make sense for the movie's props department to opt for that sort of binding, since it's cheap and easily replaceable. --Fullobeans (talk) 08:51, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

December 12

Bank Charges in the UK

I have a small problem with my bank, the NatWest. I went overdrawn of a few pence, and they charged me £38 for going overdrawn. Then I got charges for being £38 overdrawn. This has gone on for a while, and I keep getting charged £38 twice each month. Once for being overdrawn, and the other time for the time and effort it takes to tell me I am overdrawn and being charged for this. It is coming close to £1,000 now. Now , is there any way I can get these bank charges cancelled?--KageTora (talk) 07:07, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't know about your area, but here people can go to the Office of Fair Trading as a start to sorting things out when a company's complaints department/Bank manager/customer service isn't responding to your complaints. Do you have something similar? Julia Rossi (talk) 08:20, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

This is an ongoing saga in the UK and the outcome is all in the hands of the courts. There's more information than you could ever wish for here. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 08:50, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Gawd. Julia Rossi (talk) 09:15, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

I would advise you to write to the complaints department of your bank first and formost... Although there is a court case going through as mentionned by Richardrj, some banks will still refund some or all charges as a gesture of goodwill as they want to retain custom where possible... I work for a bank, and although I cannot say which bank I know that we do have discression to refund a certain amount of charges, despite the court case... However take care because some banks will tell you that any refund they give is a one off and no further refunds are allowed. If they do, you will be unlikely to be able to claim any further refunds no matter what the result of the court case... btw I'm staying anonomous as this is not an official bank response...

That last part seems unlikely - if the courts decide the charges are unfair then they are unfair for everyone, having accepted a goodwill refund won't change that. If any bank tries to refuse to comply with the court ruling on those grounds they'll find themselves back before a judge in no time, and I would be very surprised if they left victorious. (IANAL, YMMV, HAND) --Tango (talk) 10:26, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Well that's the disclaimer we have to give anyway... Yeah I suppose it might change depending on the outcome of the case though...

No more goodwill refunds would be an acceptable disclaimer. Getting people to sign away their rights to legal recourse is probably not acceptable, it may even be illegal. --Tango (talk) 12:35, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes and no - until the outcome of this court case no bank HAS to refund any charges, and thus if a bank wants to ONLY offer a goodwill gesture once, they can. The customer would be told this and therefor would not keep asking for refunds constantly. As I said, it could all change depending on the outcome of the court case...

On top of all that, go and talk to the Citizens Advice Bureau; there should be one near you. It would have been better if you'd talked to them earlier, but better late than never. They tend to be good at dealing with debt. 79.66.58.154 (talk) 18:12, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Don't know if it applies to where you are at, but in most countries not doing anything is the worst case scenario. There are lots of rights where if you didn't send a letter to the right place at the right time you're out of luck. So I'd write up the situation for your bank at the earliest, attaching as much detail on all the extra charges as you can and stating that you feel that those are unjustified and you are asking to have them removed. Get a good reason ready for why you didn't complain right-off and had them remove the very first charge. I'd attach the amount of the original overdraft to the letter, to show goodwill. Or at least state that you are quite willing to settle the original overdraft amount. If you are feeling generous you might even let them have the first overdraft fee, because their fees disclosure will probably state that they are entitled to that. (Your legal counsel will know whether that's a good idea or not.) Don't do this by phone or email. Snail mail works best to get their attention for such "small problems" (£1,000 ?!? wow, although I've been in a similar pickle with a tax office). Make sure to follow up on a regular basis. - And get that professional advice. 76.97.245.5 (talk) 22:22, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

The advice above is sound, and I've had good luck with getting a bank to remove charges for going overdrawn accidentally. However I do notice that, by simple calculation from your statements above, you have been letting this debt pile up for around a year. Was that really a wise thing to do? It's a lot easier to persuade a bank to refund £38 right after they've charged it than £1000 a year later. DJ Clayworth (talk) 19:06, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Australian in Spain

<discussion redacted. Questions required legal advice. Please seek help from official or legal channels, not internet message boards>

Proposed National Parks

I would like to know how many Proposed National Parks there are worldwide and if possible, where they are located. Thankyou —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.72.9.25 (talk) 15:25, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Eye exercises

Do eye exercises improve eyesight? sumal (talk) 15:52, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

That depends on what is wrong with your eyesight. Ask an optician. I don't think they are likely to improve eyesight that is already normal or better. --Tango (talk) 16:15, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

See Bates method. Some claimed it was beneficial, others derided it. Some studies imply that exercises might improve the ability of nearsighted persons to interpret the blurred images they see without glasses. Bates was difficult to master. Edison (talk) 16:22, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

See also See Clearly Method, no longer available after charges for consumer fraud. --LarryMac | Talk 16:23, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

See Vision therapy.76.97.245.5 (talk) 18:08, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

See snake oil. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 18:10, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

It's not snake oil. My German-trained eye specialist prescribed eye exercises for me to address my convergence insufficiency, after other people had simply wanted to prescribe glasses. Those exercises were never going to "cure" the problem, just keep it bay for a time, but they strengthened my eye muscles enough to keep me off glasses for 7 years, and they certainly did no harm. Some of those exercises involved bringing a pencil up to my face while focussing both eyes on it. I'd always been told "crossing your eyes makes you go blind", but he explained that that's an old wives' tale, as long as it's done as specific short-term exercises under the watch of a trained professional and not something you do all day long willy-nilly. I was very happy with the outcome. This is not medical advice, just a narration of my own experience. -- JackofOz (talk) 21:27, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Before you call s.th. snake oil [13] you should at least check out the link. Even the US "what lenses does this one need" eye-care specialists admit that it will help with "convergence insufficiency". As JackofOz indicated in other countries it is successfully applied to a wide range of vision problems. It is no cure all, though. The problem with acceptance here is that our education system separates "eye doctors" into optometrists, whose education focuses around corrective lenses and Ophthalmologists focusing on surgical correction. There is simply no educational avenue to get a large support for anything that doesn't fall into either category. (And "not in my backyard" resistance, too.) Which group would want to fund large studies here? This may change in the long run with the modern trend towards Evidence-based medicine. The fact that the internet makes information from many remote sources more accessible will probably help, too. 76.97.245.5 (talk) 21:55, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

I think the difficulty here is that there are a wide range of things that can go wrong with the human eye. It is, after all, a very precise instrument. Exercising the eye muscles could well help with some kinds of eye problem, but it will do nothing at all for many of the most common complaints, such myopia, hyperopia, and astigmatism, because those defects have nothing whatever to do with muscles or any other material that could benefit from exercise. It would be like claiming a telescope will work better the more you use it. Guys like Bates don't help themselves by claiming that all eye difficulties can be alleviated by their method, which is a standard snake oil sales pitch. Any eye "expert" who claims staring at the sun is good for you is one whose theories I would treat with extreme caution. Matt Deres (talk) 17:41, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

I remember reading a while ago about using a turntable set to very slow and having children do games like noughts and crosses or tracing lines on it with the good eye covered to fix squinting. I don't see anything like it in the article anyone else hear about something like this? Dmcq (talk) 22:23, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Visit

Why do my US friends visit WITH their friends while here in the UK we merely visit them? 92.21.74.75 (talk) 18:19, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Because while the British invented the English language, the Americans perfected it. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 18:33, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

_{Americans also like to say "tuna fish" to help them distinguish it from all the non-fish tuna they've got there. Matt Deres (talk) 20:53, 12 December 2008 (UTC)}

_{It's to avoid confusing piano tuners, who simply hate being made into sandwiches. --Fullobeans (talk) 08:27, 13 December 2008 (UTC)}

Was that a response you prepared with earlier?92.21.74.75 (talk) 18:40, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Americans are just as likely to use "visit (with)" over "visit" as they are to use phrases such as "hang out (with)" or "chillin' (with)". It's a small distinction, and one I don't really notice in casual conversation. Coreycubed (talk) 18:58, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Americans LOVE to end sentences with prepositions, as in "Excuse me, but could you tell me out where the library's at?" "Young man, around here, we do not end sentences with prepositions!" "Sorry about that. Could you tell me where the library's at, a$$hole?" Edison (talk) 19:22, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

"Beat on" is another one that annoys me every time I hear it - it's just "beat"! --Tango (talk) 19:30, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps it is to distinguish it from "Beating off" ;-). Back to a serious note, every time I have heard the phrase "visit with" used, it was an idiomatic expression meaning "talk with". That is, if you "visit" someone, you go over to their place and meet them. If you "visit with" someone, you are having a conversation with them. Now, normally meeting someone implies that you're going to talk to them, but (at least in my experience) there is a slight difference in connotation between the two phrases. -- 128.104.112.113 (talk) 19:56, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

"Talk with" is also an Americanism, in Britain we "talk to" each other. DuncanHill (talk) 19:58, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

We "talk to" each other, but we "have a talk with" each other. Perhaps that's where the American usage comes from? --Tango (talk) 20:23, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

I see (hear, actually) both occurring in Australia. "Talk to" is the neutral expression, meaning "engage in conversation with", and it's used even if the other party initiated the conversation. It's also used in contexts such as the frustrated mother demanding her husband "talk to" their recalcitrant son to chastise him for his misdeeds and set him on the right path. He'd be given "a good talking to", not "a good talking with". But when a more sympathetic approach is called for, it's more likely to be "Just talk with him, spend some time with him, take him to Maccas, and see if you can find out what's really going on". -- JackofOz (talk) 21:13, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

I would definitely use "visit with" for a bigger affair than just "dropping by". As in "we visited with his family for Thanksgiving." I wouldn't use "with" if we weren't the party doing the visiting. (e.g. "they visited us", not "they visited with us". Well, actually: "we had them visiting us".) Interestingly enough the northern German Platdütsch knows a tradition know as "Visiten" (wee-see-t'n) that is also a bigger occasion than just going over to visit your neighbors. They have a group that gets together with a rotation of hosts. They serve tons of cake and coffee and gossip. 76.97.245.5 (talk) 21:32, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

If you visit with someone, doesn't that mean you went somewhere with them? At least that's what it seems to imply to me Nil Einne (talk) 00:53, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

"I visited X with Y" would mean "Y and I visited X", is that what you mean? The X may be unnecessary from context, so you just have "I visited with Y". -Tango (talk) 01:09, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

That would not be very natural in American English. If someone asked "Did you visit Paris as part of your trip to Europe?", and you wanted to say that, yes, you visited Paris with Susanne, the natural thing to say would not be "Yes, I visited with Susanne". That might suggest that you didn't understand the question, that you thought the question was something like "Did you visit with anyone as part of your trip to Europe?". The natural answer in this case to "Did you visit Paris as part of your trip to Europe?" would be "Yes, I visited it with Susanne".

I think that 76.97 captured the distinction in American English between "to visit [somebody]" and "to visit with [somebody]". The form without the preposition suggests the act of stopping or staying temporarily with someone. By contrast "visit with" emphasizes the interaction with that person while visiting. It definitely does not mean that you went anywhere with that person. (It also does not exclude the possibility that the two of you went somewhere together while you were visiting with each other.) "I visited my aunt" could mean that you dropped by or that you stayed with her for a week, and it is consistent with not much significant interaction taking place between you. By contrast, "I visited with my aunt" means that the two of you spent time together, had at least one conversation, and enjoyed each other's company. Americanisms that are opaque to speakers of other versions of English often carry subtle nuances of meaning.

Incidentally, in American English, you cannot "visit with" a place; you can only "visit with" a person. For example, you can only "visit Paris", you cannot "visit with Paris". (If someone were to say "I visited with Paris", it would only make sense if you knew that the person was passionate about Paris and felt that spending time there was like spending time with a good friend.) Marco polo (talk) 01:42, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

It's a bit tricky to make generalizations about American English, since there are so many variations between regions and populations. I (an American) recognize the meaning of "visit with," but have never used it. I'm not entirely sure I've even used the word "visit" in conversation, since it sounds awkwardly formal when spoken. I would "talk to" someone casually, but "have a talk with" someone who I had a serious problem with. And I stand in line, not on line, when queuing for things. "Could you tell me out where the library's at," depending on where you are and who you're talking to, is either standard, slang, or completely bizarre. There's really no national standard. Half the fun of being an American college student is being exposed to colloquialisms from other parts of the country, and making fun of them mercilessly. --Fullobeans (talk) 08:27, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Going back to Jayron32's comment. I can't find the book just now, so I'm stuck with this, but I do know that in some cases, and I have no idea if this is one, that current American English usage is actually older than current British English usage. Over a period of time the pronunciation of words and phrases changed in the UK but America kept the older versions. CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 16:50, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Indeed - Americans are behind the times! (Whatever way you look at it, Americans are still wrong. ;)) --Tango (talk) 19:11, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

material on a website is cited as being in the "public domain"

Hi there

Material - images to be specific - are cited on a website as being believed to be in the public domain as the website owner has not knowledge of the origins thereof and many are from out of print books.

When visiting his site some years back I commended him on his images and asked if I may make use of them for educational books that I write and provide for free from my website. He granted such permission.

Since then in the last 2 years I have established there are Creative Commons, Public Domain, Educational FAir Use and other copyright references and I am extremely cautious not to infringe on anything that may be copyrighted - so I usually use and cite public domain material.

In this case a public domain image search through Google came up to this chap's site www.arthursclipart.org and I downloaded somoe images believing them to be public domain. I have recently started publishing books commercially and used some of these images.

My question is this, does he have the authority or the legal right to dictate how to use public domain material, or material where he does not even know the origin? Can he be prescriptive in who uses what and how this "public domain" material is used?

According to the information I have on public domain material it is not copyrighted and is available at no cost for anyone to make use of. Out of courtesy I notified this man of how I used his images in my FREE ebooks and sent him copies.

He is now requiring that I remove the public domain images from my work as they belong to him although he does not know who actually owns them. He has not purchased or licensed them, he is not the artist - he has merely sourced them. Some of the images are available on other sites also under a "public domain image" search.

Before I rewrite close on 100 books and remove images that no one knows who owns and are believed to be in the public domain and copyright free, I would like to know where I stand.

Can anyone help?

Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by Donnetted (talk • contribs) 19:10, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

A lawyer can help. We cannot. It appears that the other person has made a legal request of you to enforce his claim of intellectual property. Regardless of our views on the legitimacy of the demand, we cannot provide legal advice. Contact a lawyer or do your own legal research. Edison (talk) 19:17, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

But we can explain some of the legal concepts, which both the OP and the guy making the claim seem completely in the dark about. This is a pretty straightforward case as he describes it and as the original website describes the provenance of these images. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 16:02, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

It does depend quite how you mean "public domain" - it can mean either information available to the public, or works without any copyright restrictions. If the latter, then he has no rights at all in this matter - it doesn't matter where you source a PD work from, it's still PD. Works generally fall into the public domain because sufficient time has passed since they were published or their creator's death (70 yrs iirc). -mattbuck (Talk) 19:32, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

If the original artist/photographer puts his work up as "public domain" (explicitly waiving their intellectual property rights) would be another case where the works would be PD, but rather more recent than the "expired" stuff. There are sites that offer legal advice and lots of associations and "lower income" support organizations offer free, pro bono or low fee legal advice/assistance. (That guy might just have gone on a crap shoot when you contacted him or might have set up that site to intentionally lure people into a "let's settle out of court" scam or he might get a good lawyer and sue you and coming generations out of any possible proceeds from your books, plus damages. Better to be safe than sorry.) - Go google and lots of luck. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.97.245.5 (talk) 21:15, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

I just had a look at the cite and there was no claim the work was public domain, only that it was free for non-commercial work. I don't know what it said in the past but you certainly can't take anything from there now as public domain without a lot more checking. Dmcq (talk) 12:08, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

This seems pretty straightforward to me, unless I'm missing something.

If it is really "public domain" then he cannot force you to use it one way or another. That's what public domain means—nobody owns it, nobody can set restrictions on it (outside of a few special cases that clearly don't apply here).

He is doing two things with his site that are problematic, from my quick glance at it. First, he's asserting the clipart is "free" because it comes from out-of-print books and/or he doesn't know the author. That does NOT indicate it is out of copyright. Just because a book is 20 years old does not mean anything about its copyright status without further investigation (see this chart for how duration of copyright is determined in the United States). Second, he is asserting that you have to use it in "non-commercial" uses only. But in any case, he is NOT the author of the works (which may or may not be in copyright), and cannot apply licensing restrictions (which is what insisting on "non-commercial" use is) to them.

So either way he has no legal standing—no ability to set the terms on the use of the material, no ability to make legal threats against you for using it. The material, however, may not be "free" at all. In any case he is not the author, and has no legal authority to dictate how it can be used. Merely scanning something does not give you ownership over it in the United States (see Bridgeman Art Library v. Corel Corp.).

In order to get you to take it down, he has to be able to assert that the material is copyrighted and that he is the copyright owner. He can assert neither. The guy seems nice enough, but he has no grasp of the basic principles of copyright law. None of what I wrote above is specialized knowledge that requires a legal degree to understand, any more than implementing the Wikipedia copyright policy does. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 16:02, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

I saw a version of Midsommer Night's Dream, copyrighted by the University of Chicago for the 1933 World's Fair. They had shortened it by deleting some of the text. This constituted, in their view enough of an improvement to claim it could not be performed, as cut, without their permission. Many music publishers take a PD work by someone from the 18th century, add "editorial improvements" by adding dynamic markings and tempo, and claim a copyright on it. If I take the oldest PD image and fix it up with some Photoshopping, or take an 1890 cylinder recording and improve the sound by removing clicks and noise and balancing the frequency, I should be able to claim a copyright. It is not as simple as some might think it. Legal advice should come from a lawyer. Edison (talk) 21:10, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

aggression amongst prostitutes

I remember a story my High School English teacher told me about his mother, who was a Korean prostitute before she married his father, that she was almost killed and fled for her life from other prostitutes. My question is have there ever been stories of prostitutes murdering or being violent with one another, or is this a rare case? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.254.37.42 (talk) 22:59, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Um I'm sure there are a lot of prostitutes who are violent with each other depending on the circumstances. For example, many prostitutes are on drugs and many people do dumb stuff when on certain drugs. Also many prostitutes are not extremely well off so if they suspect another prostitute is stealing money from them they may respond violently. Similarly prostitutes may get into fights over territory or clients. And in countries where's it's prosecuted, if one prostitute suspects another is cooperating with the police in some way which is going to harm them. There are probably other things too. I can imagine if one gets a STD and gives it to a client who gives it to another prostitute, the second one might be pissed off. Of course it's also going to depend on how much involvement there is of pimps who may maintain control and be the ones doing any 'enforcing'. Without knowing the precise circumstances of why your teacher's mother was nearly killed we can't even begin to say if it was a rare case. Nil Einne (talk) 00:52, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Why would prostitutes be somehow exempt from violence and murder? Nobody else is. Clarityfiend (talk) 21:46, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

December 13

Living geniuses

I read a quote by J. G. Ballard that goes:

• Since the death of Einstein in 1955, there hasn't been a single living genius. From Michelangelo, through Shakespeare, Newton, Beethoven, Darwin, Freud and Einstein, there's always been a living genius. Now, for the first time in 500 years, we are on our own.

I certainly wouldn't agree those are the only geniuses over the past 500 years, but that wasn't the point Ballard was making. Thinking of people alive today, I guess most people who know of him would regard Stephen Hawking as a genius. Who else would qualify? And what about people who've died since the death of Einstein in 1955? -- JackofOz (talk) 01:00, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

There are plenty of geniuses in the world today, what you're really asking about is famous geniuses. How famous where the people listed in the quote during their own lifetimes? (Most of them were famous to some extent, I think, but probably not to the extent they are now.) --Tango (talk) 01:12, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't know if famous is quite the term for it. I'm not even sure if genius is quite the right word for it. Ballard is at least using it in a way that's slightly different than standard use, I think. Those gentlemen were responsible for paradigm shifts that significantly changed our views of the world. Professor Hawking is certainly a smart guy in his specialized niche, but I don't think he's wrought a real sea-change in the way someone like Darwin did, whose ideas are still very much active in the world. In that limited sense, I think Ballard might be right. Matt Deres (talk) 03:08, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Neither Michaelangelo nor Shakespeare nor Beethoven was responsible for any such paradigm shift. Algebraist 03:18, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

There's something about the zeitgeist and level of celebrity aura about those names – also the history of Western-centric myth-making. Suggesting here, but they seemed to stand out from the crowd, or conventions of the times. In an era of plurality, diversity and the advanced level of many specialist fields, perhaps the times in a sense have caught up with "genius" so that there's not the easy sterotypical singular genius "hero" and the rest. Less than 100 years ago, having a B.A. was an elite achievement, now it's more like several PhDs and a PR machine. Julia Rossi (talk) 04:43, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Forgot Ballard in your post – perhaps the statement is Ballard being true to his dystopian vision. What does "on our own" really mean? Julia Rossi (talk) 05:18, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Oh cry me a river, J. G. Ballard. What he's talking about isn't "genius," but "enduring legacy." If the Sistine Chapel had burned down, and David blown up, would we be talking about Michaelangelo? Maybe, but doubtful. If, in the near future, somebody uses the theories of Stephen Hawking to make some new great leap forward, then yes, Stephen Hawking might be mentioned in the same breath as Einstein. Or maybe, a hundred years from now, people will decide Jimbo Wales singlehandedly changed the way humanity conceptualizes knowledge, and name him the great genius of the twentieth century. There's no way of knowing which of any given generation's contributions will endure. And it's not as though we're living in an era without innovation, incidentally; this whole "internet" business is fairly revolutionary. Does the fact that it evolved as an undeniably collaborative project make it categorically less valuable than, say, the work of Newton, who himself famously said, "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants"? Not really; it just makes it harder to write middle-school book reports about. --Fullobeans (talk) 07:39, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

If Newton said that, he was quoting Bernard of Chartres (or whoevever Bernard was quoting). Surprise! We even have an article! Adam Bishop (talk) 20:37, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

I've always been personally critical of the "historic method" of concentrating and idealizing key people in history. Our history article mentions: "In the 20th century, historians focused less on epic nationalistic narratives, which often tended to glorify the nation or individuals, to more objective analyses." Yet doesn't it seem that this tendency towards the heroic idealism persists? There is no doubt that many of the more noteworthy people in the human history of the last thousand or so years have indeed done remarkable things. But choose one of these figures and re-examine their actions with the hypothesis that they simply reflected a natural social process at the time. And that process would be better described or predicted sociologically or economically (Think of a change in a system of government, social order or technology). Ask yourself "If they didn't do it, wouldn't someone else have?" I'll bet the answer is yes in a good deal more than half of the cases. I certainly do, however, recognize how useful heroic idealism is as a teaching/learning method; It's a lot easier to identify a social change with a person who is thought to exhibit the characteristics leading to that change. But to believe that human history is truly shaped by "special individuals" makes us less able to contribute to and benefit from future human history. It's just not true. NByz (talk) 07:58, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

It is certainly much easier to change history by doing stupid or awful things and I wouldn't say they are inevitable in any way. But on the other side can we really say the environmental movement for instance would be quite the way it is without Rachel Carson's Silent Spring? An easier question is did somebody else do it differently? if so then it wasn't inevitable. Every country does things differently, very little is in any way the inevitable march of history. I'd instead argue that where we end up is random to a large extent. Dmcq (talk) 10:42, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

I'd actually contend that Stephen Hawkings is responsible for a change in perception, although possibly not in the way you might think: he has shown people that (a)Motor Neurone Disease is not the early death sentence the doctors tell you it is, and (b) it is possible to be physically disabled while retaining your mental expertise and dexterity. He has thus changed the perception of the general public towards disabled people, and that is quite an achievement. --TammyMoet (talk) 11:39, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't know if I'd agree with your point (a). MND or more accurately Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis is sadly often a death sentence. According to our article "Although ventilation support can ease problems with breathing and prolong survival, it does not affect the progression of ALS. Most people with ALS die from respiratory failure, usually within 3 to 5 years from the onset of symptoms. However, about 10 percent of those individuals with ALS survive for 10 or more years". In other words, 90% of sufferers die within 10 years and a majority within 3-5 years. This isn't likely because these people are 'told by doctors they are likely to die' nor is it to be because these people accept that these's a good chance they will die in a few year but simply because for reasons we don't fully understand, these people were affected worse then Stephen Hawkin. This doesn't mean you shouldn't live life to the fullest but it's unreasonable to say ALS isn't usually a fatal disease since at the current time, it is. Stephen Hawking is one of the lucky 10% who survive 10 years or more specifically "It is important to remember that some patients with ALS have an arrested course with no progression beyond a certain point despite extensive follow-up. Such a pattern is particularly true for young males with predominant upper limb weakness especially on one side (so-called monomelic or Hirayama type motor neuron disease)." And he should be proud of what he's achieving. In others words if you are diagnosed with ALS while sure you should hope for the best, that you'd be like Stephen Hawking or better but you should also be realistic in accepting there's a good chance you will be dead in 10 years, and it's not going to really be your fault. Nil Einne (talk) 11:59, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Ballard is being rather unreflective about the construction of the idea of the "genius". There are many people who think Freud was just a sham—the idea that Freud is a "genius" who uncovered all sorts of wonderful things is a particular historical construction born in no small part by the efforts of his cult-like initial circle of followers. (Whether one thinks Freud is wrong/right whatever is immaterial to the fact that the idea that one is a "genius" is something that has to be developed and maintained.) That Ballard would not include someone like John Von Neumann in his list shows this quite clearly—he was regarded by his ("genius-level") peers as being in a totally different league of intelligence than them, but he has had nothing of the sainthood of Einstein or Darwin, even though his insights actually touch most of us more on a daily level than do many in that list. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 16:10, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Look at the definition of genius, talk about meaningless. You could if you wanted use that to quite easily include Vince McMahon and Perez Hilton. They certainly mastered and personalised a known technique and have "...remarkable abilities in a specific subject...". Or they are just good at self-promotion. CambridgeBayWeather Have a gorilla 16:32, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

The idea of these particular geniuses being geniuses is heavily managed, as well. That Darwin was a genius was actively promoted first by those (like Huxley) who wanted to use Darwinism as a way to reinforce the autonomy of scientists in 19th century England. Then Darwin himself went out of favor for many years as evolution by natural selection was not considered to be the most likely candidate theory for driving evolutionary change. But by the 1930s and 1940s, with the modern synthesis, an explicit hailing of Darwin was being right all along, and being a genius far beyond the statements that he actually made, became part of this later group of scientists' rhetorical strategy and situation of their work. (A similar case can be found in the way that Mendel's work was "rediscovered", and reappropriated, for a very different scientific context, one that has been argued interpreted things into Mendel's work that wasn't actually there to begin with). Science in particular loves its heroes, but it loves them dead, not living. A living hero is a liability (see, for example, James Watson). Even Einstein was a liability towards the end of his life, when he shifted his public efforts from physics to radical politics. But within a decade or so, that aspect of his life and personality was almost totally written out of the standard account of his life. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 16:54, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

As for Von Neumann I'm very willing to acknowledge him as a great genius. However the things he did seem more the product of very high intelligence and hard work rather than stunning new things like in the various fields he worked in I could mention for instance Fischer in statistics, Heisenberg in Quantum mechanics, or Godel in logic, and even in game theory people are much more likely to think of Nash or Conway. Very few people produce so much outstanding work in so many diverse areas but nowadays a genius has to make one gasp and stretch one's eyes with their insights to stand out amongst the general advances. They had it much easier in the past. Dmcq (talk) 17:07, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

After reading Darwin, my opinion of his intellect dropped greatly. Whenever he came to something really difficult to work out, he said he would cover it in a later book, which he usually omitted to do. Also he was not much of a scholar in school. Many people later regarded as geniuses were so because they had a promoter in a later generation. In their own time, they sometimes went to an unmarked grave with few in attendance. Artists or musicians might be regarded as hacks, or as journeyman workers but not the earth shaking geniuses some later generation determined them to be. To ge regarded as geniuses during their own lifetime, it helped to live to a ripe old age and have students or followers who had power and or money, like Henry Ford honoring Thomas Edison with the Greenfield Village museum. . Edison (talk) 21:05, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Cards

What is the least popular playing card? 58.165.14.208 (talk) 04:33, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

That has so many answers... Pretty much anything you see that's not Pokemon, YuGiOh (it's fading...), or a baseball card. flaminglawyer^cneverforget 04:41, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Hm... my first thought was, "The six of clubs really rubs me the wrong way." Are you asking about games like Pokemon or Magic: The Gathering, or are you asking about standard playing cards? If it's the latter, then it depends entirely upon what game you're playing. --Fullobeans (talk) 07:46, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I'm talking about standard playing cards. 58.165.14.208 (talk) 07:48, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

What are you asking, exactly? Are you wondering about probability, or what card people are most apt to play, or what cards are least likely to be dealt? You might be interested in Gaming mathematics, Event (probability theory), Game theory, Poker probability, Blackjack#Blackjack_strategy, etc. --Fullobeans (talk) 08:35, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

No! It has nothing to do with probability! It's to do with popularity! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.165.14.208 (talk) 10:26, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Popularity in what sense? The card people least like being dealt? In what game? The card that people just plain don't like? The card that people find offensive? ~ mazca ^t|c 13:09, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

It's going to depend on the game, and even then it will probably depend on the exact circumstances. --Tango (talk) 14:37, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

I' have thought overall the Jokers were the least popular. Often they can be lost and nobody would care less. ...sorry, I know one even less popular. The card stuck to he box the playing cards came in. What a life ;-) Dmcq (talk) 17:12, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

In hearts, you don't wanna get caught with the queen of spades, or you wanna know how to get rid of it!--el Aprel (^facta-_facienda) 20:00, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

I find shooting the moon a pretty easy strategy, so I quite like Queen of Spades. --Tango (talk) 20:08, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Are there any studies on the most popular card? And what does "popular" even mean? Do people stand around at a party saying "What's your favourite playing card? I really like the 4 of clubs, and the 7 of diamonds is quite nice too"? -- JackofOz (talk) 21:17, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Okay, okay! By "popular", I mean the one least talked about. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.165.14.208 (talk) 22:09, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Golf

1. Has anyone ever hit an off-the-green shot into the hole without the ball ever touching the ground?

2. Are there any par 3's whose greens have never been reached in one shot?

3. Are there any par 4's whose greens have never been reached in two shots?

4. Are there any par 5's whose greens have never been reached in three shots?

5. Why, in tournament play, do people not give up a hole after reaching 3 times as many strokes as that hole's par? That's what they're supposed to do.

58.165.14.208 (talk) 04:37, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Answering #1, if you mean from the tee to the hole, there's Hole in one and the official hole-in-one registry for the U.S.[14]. Julia Rossi (talk) 11:55, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Also with #1, if you're talking about from the rough or a bunker, Bob Tway hit a classic shot to win a major tournament in this way - and someone beat Greg Norman in the same way in the Masters one year, too, IIRC. One or both may well have gone into the hole without touching the ground.

I'm mostly familar with watching pro tournaments when young (hence the names above), so I don't know much about amateur ones, but I would guess sheer competitiveness is the answer for #5.Somebody or his brother (talk) 13:31, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

The average difference between the time in a invitation and the time of arrival

Has there been any study into how people react to the time in an invitation for a group event and whether their punctuality is affected by the size if the group? So people might on average turn up 20 mins early for something involving 7 or 8 people but arrive at a big party say an hour or two after the time. I basically just want to know if whether the patterns I see in my friends are likely to be typical or whether this stuff varies wildly. Anything would be great, thanks 86.7.238.145 (talk) 10:13, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

With me (and I expect others) it depends on the event. For a meal in a restaurant, you need to arrive at close to the stated time as possible. For a meal at someone's house, you don't want to be too early because they may not be ready, and you don't want to be too late or they may be waiting for you to arrive in order to eat, so anywhere between 10 mins early and 20 mins late is probably fine. For a party without a sit down meal, you would probably only arrive early if you had offered to help set up, otherwise could arrive anywhere from on time to an hour or two late, depending on personal preference. It also depends on the other people - if you know they're almost certain to be running late you may as well be a little late yourself. If you know they are offended by people being late, you would make an effort to be on time. --Tango (talk) 14:42, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

I once worked for an organisation that made an art form out of large meetings (say, 20 people) starting up to 15 minutes later than the scheduled time. There might be 20% of the invitees there by starting time (time X) if you were lucky. By X+5, maybe 40%. By X+10, probably 85%. The ethos most people adopted (I know, because I asked them) was that since it wasn't going to start on time (because invariably there wouldn't be enough people there at time X for it to be a viable meeting), there was no point coming on time. And so the latecomers, and not the chair, always determined the actual starting time. Those who bothered to come on time would sit around chatting, waiting, or being bored. Some would even turn up, see that it was going to be at least another 5 or 10 minutes before it got under way, and go back to their offices and get some work done before returning at a more likely time. No chair in my experience ever made any remarks to a group about punctuality. It was just generally accepted as part of the culture of the organisation. People for whom punctuality is a high value found this practice eternally frustrating and wasteful, but they were rather in the minority. -- JackofOz (talk) 21:08, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Cheese making

Tonight I'm going to try my hand at making cheese, from a recipe I found at WikiHow (How to Make Cheese at Home). It says in the tips section that it will be very plain, and that I should try adding spices to it. I was wondering what types of spices I should put in it? A quick Internet search turns up nothing. Thanks, Genius101^Guestbook 17:18, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm getting kind of desperate, so any ideas at all would help a lot. Thanks, Genius101^Guestbook 20:00, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

The spices in this recipe sound pretty great. I love a good strong cheese! NByz (talk) 20:36, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Also, this article has some other recipes. There doesn't appear to be any really good independent spice recommendations, but a read-over might give you a procedural idea or two. NByz (talk) 20:39, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

OK; thanks a lot! Genius101^Guestbook 21:40, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

A weekend's diet - to cleanse the system - best choice?

Hello, friends (if I may call you that). I come with a question regarding the human digestive system. Here's the story.

Once in a while (once in a few months) I usually embark on a diet over the weekend, when within those three days from Friday to Sunday I strive to consume nothing but liquids (water, juices, tea, milk, yoghurts), so as to try and cleanse my system of any nasty leftovers and just generally feel better. On the following Monday one gradually returns to eating normally. The basis for this is that I have a few friends who do it in a similar fashion, and a gut feeling that it is good for the body. This is usually helpful.

My girlfriend, who is quite health-conscious, asked me about something called the 'residue-free diet'. I don't know what this is, maybe the scheme is similar. So, my questions would be:

1. Is this liquid diet thing a good thing at all?
2. What is the residue-free diet and how does it compare?

Maybe any of you have experience with this, if so, input will be appreciated. Thanks in advance. --Ouro (blah blah) 20:59, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

And one more thing for those who might object - this is in no way meant as asking for medical advice. --Ouro (blah blah) 21:02, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Low residue diet. Looks like this is quite different from what you do, no idea whether either is good for you (though the article suggests that long-term use may be unhealthy). 81.98.38.48 (talk) 21:40, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Whether you mean it to be a request for medical advice or not, that's very clearly what it is (well (1) is, (2) has been answered), so no comment. Sorry. (Go see a nutritionist.)--Tango (talk) 21:46, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

who would win in a fight?

If Gandalf fought Dumbledore, who would win? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.45.227.166 (talk) 22:16, 13 December 2008 (UTC)