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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by TwoSpear (talk | contribs) at 21:23, 10 April 2016 (→Laura Aguilar: new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

    Welcome – report issues regarding biographies of living persons here.
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    This noticeboard is for discussing the application of the biographies of living people (BLP) policy to article content. Please seek to resolve issues on the article talk page first, and only post here if that discussion requires additional input.

    Do not copy and paste defamatory material here; instead, link to a diff showing the problem.

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    Additional notes:

    Terry Brennan

    Terry Brennan (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

    Paul Horning was not the only Heisman trophy winner to come from a losing team. The first winner, Jay Berwagner. University of Chicago, was from a losing team. See Wikipedia article on him.

    Sonny Rollins

    Contrary to the line that says a concert by Frank Sinatra at Rollins' high school, accompanied by a plea for racial harmony, changed his life, Rollins never said the concert changed his life, as borne out by the video source cited [1]. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sidbill60 (talk • contribs) 15:49, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

    George Campbell Jr.

    Much of the material reported here under the heading "Cooper Union controversy and investigation by New York state Attorney General" is incorrect, as is much of the material in the Attorney General's report which merely regurgitates a lawsuit filed. The citations here are politically motivated or biased comments by an alumnus with a strong bias and which are potentially libelous. A section of this bio challenging the attorney general's report, published in the Chronicle of Higher Education has been edited out and should be re-added.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.33.13.1 (talk) 16:54, April 2, 2016‎

    Panama Papers

    Could people experienced in BLP issues keep an eye on this? I don't have much time to look into it, but there are a lot of people being "named", "implicated", or in an "accusations were made" paragraph. As far as I can tell, right now, sources are still in the "just list all the famous names found in the data dump" phase. I wonder if our article should start out with zero names for a while, and only add them when reliable sources have calmly assessed whether there are specific allegations made, and/or they quit/retire/get removed from whatever position they're in. --Floquenbeam (talk) 21:27, 3 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

    Theres also an issue at Vladimir Putin being discussed hotly. Putin is not mentioned in the Panama dump, but 3000 + bytes have been added to the article under 'Personal Wealth. A few of us think this is wrong SaintAviator lets talk 08:30, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    Second section added specifically on such grounds. I find the flouting of WP:BLP to be abhorrent, and the nature of some of the accusations appears to be possibly a matter of politics as much as "real investigation". Collect (talk) 15:23, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    Both of you have been specifically asked to specify which part of WP:BLP policy is being violated. Both of you have failed to do so. The info is covered in literally dozens of reliable sources, it is well sourced and essentially non-controversial. So if there's "flouting of WP:BLP" going on here, it's by you.Volunteer Marek (talk) 23:38, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

    Panama Papers redux

    Edits there name a slew of living persons, where allegations of criminal activity are directly imputed by the article, but where no other sources are found for such charges other than from the organization releasing the information.

    I find edit summaries such as "Reinstate some info. ABSURDLY, as it was, WE HAD REBUTTALS BUT NOTHING BEING REBUTTED. Excuse me saying this, but the article has been hacked to pieces by some editors who completely ignore WP:NPOV and frankly should know better"

    Alas - I find WP:BLP says we should not imply criminal acts to people without strong reliable sourcing (some of those named are not "notable" to the extent that such claims are proper IMO) and NPOV being used as a reason to accuse people named in that article of criminal acts seems worse than craven.

    Hence the queries - is this article subject to WP:BLP? Is the naming of "not very notable persons" in this article improper under WP:BLP? Collect (talk) 15:21, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

    The article, as with the reporting on this issue in the press, notes that the activities in question were not illegal. So it's incorrect to say that criminal acts are being implied. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 15:26, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    Eyes covered?
    " found that some of the shell companies may have been used for illegal purposes, including fraud, drug trafficking, and tax evasion"
    "The country is filled with dishonest lawyers, dishonest bankers, dishonest company formation agents and dishonest companies registered there by those dishonest lawyers so that they can deposit dirty money into their dishonest banks. The Free Trade Zone is the black hole through which Panama has become one of the filthiest money laundering sinks in the world"
    "it continues to provide full service – wash, rinse and dry – to crooks and money launderers from around the world."
    "Vladimir Putin does not appear in any of the records but the names of some of his associates do" (um - if his name is not in the documents, why the hell stress that he has friends who are in the documents? Really? That disingenuous? )
    The article is chock full of such innuendo and inference - but some editors think that such use is proper - and I demur that WP:BLP should be abused in this way. Anyone who does not view the listing of living persons in this manner as implying "illegal, immoral and fattening" acts is willfully covering their eyes - as my first line states. Collect (talk) 15:41, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    And what Wikipedia article is that text from? Oh. None of them.Volunteer Marek (talk) 23:40, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    Every blessed word above is from the Panama Papers article - which is why that article is in the section title here. Did you elide the fact that the article name is clearly mentioned right at the top of this section? Your puerile "none of them" is, alas, so easily contradicted as to be "joci causa" as far as any outside observer would describe it. Collect (talk) 23:59, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    I have no idea what a "juicy cause" is [2] nor do I care, nor am I impressed by gratuitous and unnecessary use of legal or Latin terms (unless it's done for the sake of a funny joke). But ok, you're right, I thought they were from an outside source. And in fact they are. These are direct quotes from sources. The two that are blockquotes, probably should be removed although paraphrased. The third one is perfectly fine.Volunteer Marek (talk) 00:06, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm also unclear on how these are suppose to be BLP violations.Volunteer Marek (talk) 00:08, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    "
    Its clear to accuse or smear Putin who is not in the leaks, but to do so because he knows some people who were is ridiculous. It is a BLP violation. Poroshenko? Sure, he acted illegally and is named in the leaks. Putin? No SaintAviator lets talk 23:32, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    The answer is simple: just stick closely to what reliable sources say. If you find something that is not based on reliable sources, by all means, please report it here. But please actually read WP:BLP and stick to it, rather than just making vague, ambigous and unsubstantiated claims that "BLP is violated". The B, L and P, do not actually stand for "I Do What I Want".Volunteer Marek (talk) 23:38, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    And since we're on the BLP page, SaintAviator, you might actually want to observe BLP. Do you have a source that Poroshenko "acted illegally"? A reliable source, not conspiracy websites or other crap? No? Then don't make such accusations. BLP applies to the BLP page too (nevermind the irony of you willfully violating BLP while at the same time complaining about imaginary BLP violations).Volunteer Marek (talk) 23:41, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • I do not think we can discuss people who appears in papers all together. If there are concerns about any specific person, please start new thread. It appears that we now have de facto consensus to include a number of notable people, including Putin in page "Panama papers", and this is not a BLP violations per se (if properly included, described and attributed). Hence this info can be also briefly included in their BLP pages. My very best wishes (talk) 01:34, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

    Ned Miller

    Ned Miller (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

    Ned Miller passed away March 18th, 2016 in White City/Medford Oregon. Please update your article. Thanks.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Nuclearnee (talk • contribs) 13:55, 4 April 2016‎

    Source? I'm not seeing anything online.--Auric talk 12:43, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

    Kristina Svechinskaya

    Kristina Svechinskaya (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

    Sexy hacker?[edit] She was with 36 other people in the hacking scheme that stole millions and she was singled out because she was the really pretty one in the whole scheme and her revealing photo on the internet. I think that this article should be merged with another article about the other Eastern European hackers that were involved in the crime.

    (Redacted) Patchman123 (talk) 14:39, 5 April 2016

    Hi Patchman123, Your post above does not raise any concerns of compliance with Wikipedia's policy on biographies of living persons. Please feel free to raise the merge question on the respective article Talk pages. - Ryk72 'c.s.n.s.' 09:44, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

    Carola Dunn

    Gilliam schoolblocked user:195.195.152.11, a serial vandal, back in 2014. I just discovered that someone at that IP changed the birthdate at Carola Dunn way back in 2005. Looking at their contribs, it appears that changing birthdates was a favourite passtime back then. I fear that other BLPs may still be damaged. Worse, it appears that the data has promulgated out through this Wikidata to corrupt this ISNI record and this VIAF record]. I suppose it is just possible that the LCAuth record is wrong, but I've adopted and cited its date anyway, in preference to the IP's edit. I hate to say it, but someone's going to have to go through all those contribs and check each of the affected articles. LeadSongDog come howl! 15:41, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

    I've worked my way through the 2004 edits, up through Feb 2005. Lots left to do. About 20% of the pseudodates still persisted, most had been cleaned up. In the meanwhile, certainly suspect any celebrity birthdays from early January. Shocking how many articles are still relying on IMDB or even Playboy. LeadSongDog come howl! 21:32, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

    Vivian Ho (artist)

    Vivian Ho (artist) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

    At the risk of dropping this like a stone into a deep well, I'd appreciate some assistance here today. A group of new and well-intentioned WP:SPA editors have turned a young artist's bio into an extensive press release, complete with resume of largely non-significant shows and promotional descriptions of work and solo exhibitions. At this point I've tired of discussing it at the article talk page, and get the sense that any copy editing I venture will be an uphill battle. Thoughts and help welcome. 2601:188:0:ABE6:65F5:930C:B0B2:CD63 (talk) 18:03, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

    It look as though others have waded in and helped out here. The page has been semi-protected for a few days too. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 15:43, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

    Ramy El-Batrawi

    Ramy_El-Batrawi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

    The entry is not neutral at all. It reads like a PR person's work.

    "Ramy El-Batrawi is the Owner, Managing Member of X LLC , El-Batrawi is a deal Maker and an effective negotiator, known for his expertise in structuring winning transactions. He is noted for his adherence to the principles of protecting his investors to the best of his abilities, and for being an entrepreneur, investor, and humanitarian"

    "In 2000 Ramy El-Batrawi was honored through his selection to participate on the entrepreneurial panel in GB2000, The Graduate Business Conference hosted by UCLA’s Anderson School of Management."

    "-In August 2015 Dr Claude A Ruffalo, Ph.D a top clinical physiologist Ph.D. who has 3 Post-Doctoral Degrees did a neuropsychological test of Ramy El-Batrawi.

    The neuropsychological test results:

    Verbal Comprehension. Mr. El-Batrawi verbal comprehension functioning was measured by the WAISA-IV verbal Comprehension Subtest, which measures verbal practical judgment. His score on Comprehension Subset was at the 91st %ile in comparison to his age group with an IQ estimated equivalent of 120 in the Superior Range of functioning. Vocabulary. The Vocabulary Subset of the WAIS-IV is considered to be one of the best single measures of verbal intelligence. Mr. El-Batrawi English language Vocabulary was measured by the WAIS-IV Vocabulary Subset which resulted in a score at the 98th %ile in comparison to his age group with an IQ estimate of 135 in the Very Superior Range. This is a particularly high English Vocabulary score given that he was not born in the us, but in Geneva, Switzerland and left home and school at about 12 years of age.

    Abstract Verbal Reasoning and Conceptualization. Mr. El-Batrawi score on the Similarities Subset of WAIS-IV which masseurs abstract verbal reasoning and conceptualization was at the 91st %ile with a IQ equivalent of 120 in the superior range.

    Discussion of test results. Mr. El-Batrawi score on the WAIS-IV Verbal Comprehension, Vocabulary, and similarities Subsets combine to provide very strong and compelling evidence that Mr. El-Batrawi has exceptionally high (Superior to Very Superior) verbal reasoning abilities. '"

    These are just some examples of the PR tendencies.

    Furthermore, the grammar on the page indicates the writer's first language is not English. It needs significant work.

    — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wolverinethad (talk • contribs) 12:45, 6 April 2016‎

    CV inflation

    It is unhelpful to start an article about a contemporary musician or actor by listing every single job they’ve done in their time, however non-notable or downright trivial. The focus in the lead should be on the one thing (it is rarely more than one) for which they are notable. Anything else can come later in the article.

    I've pared a couple of these lists back, but fans instantly revert them and keep extending them. A lost cause? 217.38.159.138 (talk) 18:28, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

    I am fully in agreement that such lists do not belong in the lead. Not as firm on whether trivial jobs should be excised from the main text - it may be appropriate, for example, to mention that a CEO started in the mailroom, to use the canonical example. I can imagine that this could be overdone, but feel uncomfortable providing generic rules, except for the lead, which should summarize the important aspects of the article.--S Philbrick(Talk) 15:28, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

    MfD dealing with a potential BLP issue in the project space

    See Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2010-03-17/News and notes. Given the nature of the discussion, I thought a posting here was appropriate, since the editors at this noticeboard will be most knowledgeable in what is and is not an actual BLP issue. ~ RobTalk 00:03, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

    • Comment Body shaming a living person is generally not allowed. The concern is the method of weaving it into the history. Even if the 4/1 Signpost articles are deleted, these backdated orphans still exist. As you pointed out, it's very similar to a joke about "Hillary" and "cankles" - it generates a juvenile snicker but it's still shaming. I don't know why we need to shame people in any spaces, particularly living people. --DHeyward (talk) 01:13, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
      • Page in question has been deleted.
    Resolved
    ~ RobTalk 15:44, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

    Stephen Crabb

    https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Stephen_Crabb&diff=714069485&oldid=714065587 restores contentious claims not directly supported by reliable sources (including a nice tabloidy claim sourced to the Daily Mail of course)

    Will someone please fix that edit? ("and stayed on welfare for the rest of his 'working' life" is not found in the Daily Telegraph article, and the claims sourced to the Daily Mail include "Tory Minister for Wales: I foiled my dad's knife attack...on my mother" and " New benefits minister's extraordinary reunion with the 'abusive' father he hasn't seen since he fled home as a boy after a series of violent rows " show just how great the reportage used is). Thank you. Collect (talk) 14:14, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

    Jenny Lim

    Jenny Lim (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

    Could someone take a look at this page please? It is an article by a new editor which is badly written, lacks references and notability could be an issue. I tagged it for refs. and the tag was removed three times by the creator who had been warned. The page was then 'reviewed' by another editor and I added a copy-edit tag. The creator has very recently added 2 refs citing Facebook and again removed the refs and copy-edit tags. I think I've run up against 3RR here so would appreciate it if someone else could take a look. It is entirely possible that it could be a candidate for CSD due to notability issues & possible COI also. Thanks Eagleash (talk) 02:40, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

    I agree on all counts. I've restored the tags. David in DC (talk) 16:36, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    Agreed. Made some prose only copy edits; added citation needed tags; removed the Facebook links, which do not contain any information, do not verify the article contents. - Ryk72 'c.s.n.s.' 09:21, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

    Nathan Davis (saxophonist)

    Nathan Davis (saxophonist) Nathan Davis did start a band called Roots in 1991. However, this is not the same band that is in the link on his Wikipedia page. That is a different band with a nearly-identical name. (personal interview) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.101.80.14 (talk • contribs) 22:07, April 7, 2016‎

    I've removed the link (which was to The Roots, a hip-hop band created in 1987). Thanks for the heads-up. clpo13(talk) 05:10, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

    Gideon Greif

    Gideon Greif (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

    The entire article is clearly just a resume.

    Violation of WP:NPF end WP:BLP1E — Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.222.148.181 (talk) 05:29, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

    Clearly needs a major trim; I have started on it. Jonathan A Jones (talk) 15:29, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    Done. Jonathan A Jones (talk) 15:55, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

    Shyla Foxxx

    Shyla Foxxx (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

    I've reverted unsourced information about a porn actress' purported birthdate twice and purported birth name once. Please see my second edit here. (You can find my first revert an hour or two before that.) I don't want to edit war. Suggestions? Assistance? David in DC (talk) 21:15, 8 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

    Tyler Henry

    There are a couple of editors on this page (linked above) who seem intent on whitewashing the article, specifically removing any criticism of the subject, claiming such criticism is libelous. Now, maybe they're right and there are libel issues (in other words, unreliable sources, false claims, etc.) or these editors might have some sort of WP:COI. Either way, I think some more eyes on this article would be helpful. clpo13(talk) 17:41, 9 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

    Nicoletta Batini

    Nicoletta Batini (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

    I have come across the Wiki article for economist Nicoletta Batini, and found a slew of issues that likely violate Wikipedia's policy regarding neutrality and verifiability. The article itself seems to have been written by a biased supporter of Batini (or Batini herself) especially considering the page was written almost entirely by one "Aparadisi86", and contains a lot of unverifiable, poorly written, and subjective statements meant to serve a positive image of Batini herself. Examples are given below:

    "She is currently rated among the 5% top most cited authors in economics worldwide (RePEc)." This section of her biography claims that she is one of the most cited authors of economic papers, yet lacks an easily accessible citation and only refers to the Wiki page for Research Papers in Economics.

    "Quickly renown in the profession for her innovative ideas and publications on monetary policy practices and strategies, launched at prestigious international conferences of the National Bureau of Economic Research, the Federal Reserve and the European Central Bank..." This section, along with many others, appears to have a noticeable grammatical error, but the main issue is that it claims Batini is regarded as a widely renowned economist, but that statement lacks a citation. Even if it is true, it appears to be a very imbalanced statement.

    "In 2003 she went on to work as a Senior Economist with the Research Department of the International Monetary Fund in Washington, D.C. where she led an era of new economic thinking within the Fund with pioneering work on global imbalances, inflation targeting in emerging markets and the macroeconomic impact of the world’s demographic change, all of which had lasting effects on the Fund’s policy approach towards advice and conditionality toward its members." This section appears to overstate her role by saying that a non-managing director economist within the IMF has led an era of new economic thinking, with lasting effects on policy.

    "She is interviewed repeatedly by the media for her seminal work –the first to forcefully challenge, and eventually steer the Fund’s orthodox view on austerity—on the dangers of excessive fiscal austerity..." This section has three citations from news sites, but nevertheless this seems like a self-serving statement that cannot entirely be verified, especially regarding the phrases "seminal work" and "the first to forcefully challenge, and eventually steer..."

    I can remove the material myself, but I would rather leave the maintenance of the article to a more capable and experienced volunteer, and I believe that because this article was written to create a falsely positive image of the subject, this is likely a larger issue of bias as opposed to just some bad fact sourcing.

    71.191.144.176 (talk) 03:22, 10 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

    Jim Butcher

    Jim Butcher (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

    User 107.14.25.33 is continuously vandalizing page with defamatory information.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jim_Butcher&type=revision&diff=714502808&oldid=714502318

    — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.166.118.152 (talk) 04:43, 10 April 2016‎

    The content has been removed and the page semi-protected by User:Bilby. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 05:49, 10 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

    Waleed Aly

    Waleed Aly (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

    The article states that Waleed Aly resigned from all positions at the ABC in 2015. I heard his broadcast at 11.30am on Thursday, 7 April 2016, as co-host (with Scott Stephens) of the ABC Radio National program "The Minefield."

    Carolyn Simmons — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.202.200.13 (talk) 05:39, 10 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

    It appears that he left ABC in December 2014 to become the permanent co-host of Channel Ten's The Project and returned in April 2015 to co-host The Minefield in addition to his role on The Project. I have added a couple of sources and updated the text. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 06:20, 10 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

    Hala Al Turk

    Hala Al Turk (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

    She is singer from Bahrain (nationality:Bahraini ). But some user Dcirovict keeps changing her nationality to Hindi,Bangladesh. Also user Laval completely removed her biography from the page mentioning no reasons/proofs. Her current occupation is Student and Singer.Her father name is Mohammed Al Turk. As she got famous from live reality tv show Arab Got Talent you can find her correct biography easily from this show episodes.I have some links of the show where she introduced herself Hala Al Turk (Arab Got Talent) Hala Al Turk Biography in Arab Got Talent Please have a look at Hala Al Turk article and update it with correct biography.You can see her biography from her facebook and twitter account too.I can mention link if required. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Khizer-abbas1996 (talk • contribs) 11:32, 10 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

    Laura Aguilar

    This article is already marked for deletion, however in the mean time, it is an article without any reliable, verifiable sources on a living person. I'm not bringing up issues of notability here, as I've written why I think this should be deleted in AfD. However, I do think this does not pass muster for a living person's biography and I encourage admins to look at the article with this in mind. TwoSpear 21:23, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

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