User talk:Curly Turkey

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WP:GA work on Little Annie Fanny

Hi Curly Turkey, I just wanted to introduce myself and let you know that I'm reviewing the article Little Annie Fanny which you seem to be a major contributor on. The nominator, Prhartcom, according to their user page, is on wikibreak so I am notifying you as well about it. I have placed the article on hold for 7 days pending some changes. Feel free to contact me if you have any questions or comments. Wugapodes (talk) 03:08, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

• Okay, I don't have all the sources he had, but I'll keep an eye on it and help out if I can. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 03:15, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
  • I've responded, but I wonder if Prhartcom's really on break—he put up that notice in April, and he sure seems to have made a lot of edits, as recently as today. I wonder if he just forgot to take down the notice. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 04:06, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

Wugapodes and Curly Turkey, I am angry at myself for forgetting to take my Wikibreak notice down. Below is a paragraph of my venting, but I must admit this is rather humorous also.

Wugapodes, please allow me to make a correction to your assumption. I did all of the research for this article and rewrote this article in its entirety myself. (Here is my sandbox version). I don't think Curly Turkey will mind when I say he is not a major contributor. After I completed my research, I deleted the previous, unsuitable version of the article, then I rewrote the article. I asked Curly Turkey to pre-review the article, which he was kind enough to do (I trust him as he is an expert on the subject). However, in addition to his helpful comments that he wrote to the Talk page, he also made numerous tiny edits to the article, each edit changing only a few characters. This is not the way I edit. I write, click Preview instead of Save, write some more, click Preview again, and repeat this process for sometime hours and then finally click Save. I complained to him at the time that others would see his name in the history so much more often than mine and fail to notice the number of characters I contributed in comparison, and assume he was the primary contributor. Now I see that this is exactly what has happened. And now, I am dismayed to see that I have left my Wikibreak notice on and find Curly Turkey, in good faith and only trying to be helpful, responding to the review as if he is the nominator. I fully understand there is no ownership of articles on Wikipedia. But rarely have I put so much work into an article and I have been patiently waiting for the moment of its GA review for six months. Curly Turkey, thank-you kindly for your help, I am not ungrateful and I remain respectful, but I believe I would like to take over at this point! Prhartcom (talk) 07:14, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

Oh, don't worry about it—the nomination's in your name, so you'd still get all the credit. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 07:19, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

And I only just now finished reading Wugapodes' review. Thank-you for stating numerous times that I should have the final say. As I implied, I rarely get that opportunity! And I must clarify that I want you to continue to follow the review and interject your comments anytime. Now I must retire for the evening and briefly return to real life in the coming morning. Cheers. Prhartcom (talk) 07:33, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

BOOM!

I'm not confident I've got the location in the photograph right, but if it's where I think it is, I lived for four non-consecutive years right in the middle of this. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 00:57, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Jaw drop

• "You have no right to contest the decisions made by your betters."
• "Our opinions are irrelevant. Only the ruling class may make such determinations. You must remain subjugated to the law, to the government, and to the collective. Where would it all end, if people thought they could challenge government and rule of law? No one has any right to rally against the law. The law is the law, and must be adhered to. You have no rights, not one. What is willed by God will come to pass, whether one likes it or not. He views such arrogance with disdain. Let those with station do what they are to do, and those without do what they are to do. Accept your lot, as people have done for centuries."

I'd assume he was trolling if I hadn't seem him in action before ... Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 10:50, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

• That's just... ugh. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 10:57, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

DYK for Per Holknekt

Materialscientist (talk) 01:10, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

• Well, thanks for the notice, but all I did was some light copyediting! Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 02:23, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken

The article It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:It's a Good Life, If You Don't Weaken for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of J Milburn -- J Milburn (talk) 20:01, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Art Spiegelman

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Art Spiegelman you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Viriditas -- Viriditas (talk) 03:40, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

Just a note to say that I hope to have the review done in the next 24 hours or so. Sorry for the delay. Viriditas (talk) 08:35, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Ed the Happy Clown

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Ed the Happy Clown you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of BenLinus1214 -- BenLinus1214 (talk) 18:20, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

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Language tests

Hi! I saw this edit which was part of removing the WSK language tests from the template. I don't understand what the edit summary means?

The WSK tests are administered by the Chinese in China but they test proficiency in English, French, German, Japanese, and Russian. The only language test to have its own distinct article is the Public English Test System (PETS) WhisperToMe (talk) 06:46, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

Article

Please take a look at the article Jenny Skavlan that I have created. I plan a DYK nom for it. Thanks.--BabbaQ (talk) 22:29, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

And the article Linni Meister could also need a check. Always appreciated.--BabbaQ (talk) 10:42, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

And Murder of Catrine da Costa that will appear in the OTD section of the main page in a few days time. Thanks!--BabbaQ (talk) 01:46, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Ick ... could you give me something more pleasant next time? Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 02:15, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

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Your GA nomination of Art Spiegelman

The article Art Spiegelman you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:Art Spiegelman for things which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Viriditas -- Viriditas (talk) 03:20, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Ed the Happy Clown

The article Ed the Happy Clown you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Ed the Happy Clown for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of BenLinus1214 -- BenLinus1214 (talk) 13:21, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:EdTheHapyClownCharacters.jpg

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Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 17:27, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Art Spiegelman

The article Art Spiegelman you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Art Spiegelman for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Viriditas -- Viriditas (talk) 20:41, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

Talk:He-gassen

Hi, Got any sources that would help covering the tradition here? Johnbod (talk) 16:55, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

• The Japanese version of the article gives a couple of sources, and Google Books gives 149 results, although (a) they seem mostly to be in passing, and (b) almost none of them are viewable online. Almost all of them give the title as 放屁合戦 "Hōhi gassen" rather than 屁合戦 "He gassen", though (放屁 refers to the releasing of farts, whereas 屁 is a fart itself—the difference, I suppose, between a "farting battle" and a "fart battle"). If the issue is whether there are enough sources to justify having an article, I say without a doubt yes. If it's about how those sources are being used—I'd have to get out to the library to answer that. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 21:50, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
  • Something about the Japanese article, though: it talks about a bunch of these "fart battle" scrolls, and uses the late-Edo one to illustrate the "tradition", rather than being about a single scroll. The earliest example it gives is one by Toba Sōjō from the 12th century. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 22:05, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Curiosity only

Ran into your screen name and immediately thought it must be a play on Cooley-Tukey (an FFT algorithm). After quickly scanning your talk page I guess not...so much for accidental similarities. Have a good day. Juan Riley (talk) 17:12, 26 July 2015 (UTC)

• I can promise you, the guy who gave me the nickname wouldn't know the Cooley-Tukey—or any other—algorithm. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 00:33, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

TFAR

Wikipedia:Today's featured article/requests/Maus --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:44, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

• Well, thanks—I won't oppose this, but I'm not going to support it either, as I've long wanted to rework the "Themes" section into a more general "Analysis" section (a lot of work, though, as there's a great abundance of sources to work through, and not really any source I'm aware of that tries to sum them up). Someday I may create an Analysis of Maus article (there's more than enough material for it). Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 21:24, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

Understand ;) - we have so many mushrooms and battleships, why not two Maus? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:29, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

I know, which is why I won't oppose. Whether I actually get to the second Maus will depend on my caprice. I just feel the "Themes" section could be much stronger. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 21:41, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

August 22, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 10:50, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

At Wikipedia:Today's featured article/August 22, 2015, I made some tweaks ... I'm not criticizing your writing style, I just think in general that a column (such as TFA) should aim for some consistency in style. See what you think. I hope I didn't introduce inaccuracies. - Dank (push to talk) 20:31, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

Dank: Just two things with the current wording:

The book is postmodern, persistently self-referential and ironic—most strikingly in its depiction of Jews as mice, Germans as cats, and non-Jewish Poles as pigs.: this makes it seem like the anthropomorphism itself was ironic—at times, irony deflates the animal metaphor, by I wouldn't say it was overall ironic. I think I'd drop the "persistently" as well, not because it's inaccurate, but because it's a bit redundant.

Okay, what I'm trying to do here is preserve your wording (which is fine) while dealing with a readership that won't have a clear sense of postmodernism, and avoiding definitions or anything that sounds professorial. Would something along these lines work? "The book is ironic, self-referential, and postmodern—most strikingly ..." - Dank (push to talk)

I think that works better, but I don't think the irony is as prominent as the self-referentiality, etc—the word hardly even comes up in the article. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 01:50, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

with frequent flashbacks to the war years: probably two thirds or more of the book is these flashbacks—I'm not sure "frequent" gets that across.

See what you think now. - Dank (push to talk)

Yeah, that's good. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 01:50, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

With Departures appearing next week, I guess I get two TFAs within a week of each other! Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 21:15, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

Yes, well, we like to showcase our best talent. - Dank (push to talk) 22:46, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for taking us to uncharted lands, celebrate great victories, hear of harrowing experiences, and cross the threshold between life and death, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:51, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Teamwork Barnstar
	It took a while - but thanks at least in part to your help, Hu Zhengyan finally made it to FA! Thank you so much for your assistance in getting it there. Yunshui 雲水 07:22, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

Hi

A project for you perhaps. Wikipedia:Today's articles for improvement.--BabbaQ (talk) 23:32, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

• Hmm ... I'll take a peek, but not today—I'm going to be busy. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 00:08, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

Two mainstreams

"Two parallel mainstreams seem to have developed. One mainstream includes Marvel, DC (and very soon Image) and the other entails books that actually dominate the sales charts; in other words, the comics considered mainstream by comic readers and comics considered mainstream by statistics." Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 07:46, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

C/e advice

Hey Turkey, may I ask for a suggestion on how to modify "the devil watches people killing each other, sure they will go to hell" (from Kill 'Em All#Music and lyrics) in order to be the devil who is sure (because it may appear it is the people who are sure with the current wording).--Retrohead (talk) 08:39, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

• "and is sure" would work, but there's probably something better. Go with that for now. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 08:59, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

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Comics vs Comic

One of your favorite awkward manifestations of the English language! Is it always "comics" and never "comic"? Don't worry, I mostly know the answer, however I come to you with the question as the Little Annie Fanny article is undergoing a very helpful copy edit from the Guild of Copy Editors and, while I know it should be "comics series" and "comics feature" and not "comic feature", I notice my own writing occasionally says "comic" ("the elaborate, fully painted comic" and "pencil roughs of each page of the comic") so I may be getting it wrong sometimes. After all, it is "comic strip", not "comics strip". So what do you think? It would help me the most if you would please go to this page and search for every use of the word "comic" and see if each appearance should instead be "comics". I want to get an understanding of this once and for all. Thanks! Prhartcom (talk) 19:17, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

It's "comics" when referring to the medium, so it's correct to say "comics writer", "comics publisher", "comics critic". In "the elaborate, fully painted comic" and "pencil roughs of each page of the comic", you're not talking about the medium. "Comics strip" and "comics book" would be logically more correct, but "comic strip" and "comic book" were well established long before the term "comics" (uncountable) became widely used to refer to the medium (which happened by the eighties—it's how Eisner used the term in Comics and Sequential Art).

In "the elaborate, fully painted comic" and "pencil roughs of each page of the comic", you're not talking about the medium itself, but individual manifestations of it. Think of it this way: "theatre" is a medium, and a "play" is a manifestation of it. A critic of the medium would be a "theatre critic", rather than a "play critic", right? So take "pencil roughs of each page of the comic" and substitute "theatre" and "play" into it: which sounds better, "pencil roughs of each page of the theatre" or "pencil roughs of each page of the play"? Since it's the latter, you're safe using "comic". Having said that, I avoid it because "comic" can be read in different ways (apparently "comic" is the preferred term for "comic book" in England, for example, and in certain circumstances the word can be read as "comedic", as in "comic novel"). I'd use a term such as "strip" or "work" to avoid confusion, but you're not "incorrect" to use "comic" there. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 21:23, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Oh, God—you've got Miniapolis copyediting ... Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 21:24, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Ha, I appreciate that reaction; the copy edit was good, very helpful; I'll just restore some small changes, feel free as well. I also appreciate your knowledgeable instruction; I get it now: medium vs manifestation; good to know the history. Cheers to you, Prhartcom (talk) 03:45, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Kurt Vonnegut FAC

Hello. We've gone to FAC with the Kurt Vonnegut article. Just a heads up. Cheers, --ceradon (talk • edits) 14:30, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

The Nikkei

• When was the change made? If it was after 2009, I don't think we should change the name in the article. (Also, I'm not a fan of the The Nikkei) — Chris Woodrich (talk) 07:24, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
  • The J-version of the article says the name change was officially made on 1 January 2007. I don't think I'm a fan of any J-paper—no Sundays funnies. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 07:32, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
    • (The joke was about the duplicated The. I believe we're supposed to nix the extra "the"). — Chris Woodrich (talk) 09:15, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
      • Ack! That's the result of a mass search & replace. Now fixed. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 11:34, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

DYK for Jenny Skavlan

Materialscientist (talk) 11:57, 14 August 2015 (UTC)

Departures (film)

Hi. I take it you've read the MOS on the infobox and MOS:LARGENUM too? $70m is correct, not $69.... And "over" is incorrect too. Thanks. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 13:24, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

• Jesus fuck you, you troll—you're seriously going to pull this shit again? @Crisco 1492: is there nothing we can do about this asslicker starting an editwar every fucking time he interacts with me? Especially when he's this fucking wrong—both with his ass-backwards and erroneous prescriptivism and his misreading of MOS:LARGENUM. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 13:28, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Also, could you edit the blurb from "and distributors only released it" to "and distributors released it only"? It's protected, so I can't. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 13:44, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
    • I go away for four hours, and the TFA is edit protected. Sigh. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 14:18, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
      • No, not the TFA, the blurb—aren't the blurbs always edit protected? Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 14:21, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
        • Right, right. Misunderstood. Long day. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 14:25, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
        • Also, the source gives 69.9 million, so Lugnuts is correct that we should round up if we're going to round. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 14:26, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
          • Well, MOS:LARGENUM doesn't require us to round when we have a precise figure, unless there's reason to believe it's "unlikely to be accurate at full precision"—are you saying we should round? Regardless, the main dispute was over his replacement of "over" with "more than", which I already pointed out to him is a fallacy: Google search. Rather than discuss, he chooses to editwar. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 14:33, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
            • I'd round for the same reason the population is rounded in their example: even a single miscounted dollar makes the number inaccurate. A double-charged ticket that was later refunded, anywhere, and the number is off. Rounding gives us more wiggle room. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 16:16, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
              • If you want to round it, then round it—my objection is to the grammar issue and the editwarring, and I only reverted the number because the rationale given (MOS:LARGENUM) didn't actually require it. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 16:26, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
                • I agree about the grammar issue, TBH. Though I'd rather wait until the article is off the main page to deal with it. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 16:30, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
                  • The real issue is that he was trying to bait me into an edit war again (this is the fourth time he's pulled this). It's lose-lose: he either gets his way, or I get blocked. Look at his "response" on the talk page: it's totally divorced to what it's supposed to be responding to. He gets to look like he "discussed" it without actually discussing it—obviously calculated to get under my skin. That he's flat-out wrong is almost beside the point. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 16:53, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

I've corrected the mistake that was in the article and another user agrees it was incorrect before I made the change. If that "gets under your skin" then you have issues. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 16:56, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

I've demonstrated that you were mistaken and you've completely ignored it. Your comment right now is pure trolling. Crisco, please take a look at the talk page. Even if you agree that "more than" is preferable, I think you'll agree that Lugnuts is not participating in the discussion in good faith. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 16:59, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

I know next to nothing about you, Lugnuts, or your history together. But even if the behaviour was calculated to get under your skin or to cause an edit war, your best solution would be if you could avoid this happening. Step away for a while if necessary or whatever.

BRD is great when it works, but ultimately even if an editor is ignoring it, it's normally better if you avoid edit warring and simply take it to the article talk page. BRRD is always going to look better on you than BRRRD or BRR...RD. It's also better if you can avoid personal attacks.

I understand this may be difficult in the heat of the moment, and there are circumstances where it's perhaps acceptable to try and keep the original wording (like if the editor is trying to add unsupported nonsense), however most of the time, and particularly for a grammar issue like this, it's going to look far better for you if you started a discussion with resonable language and waited for a response (as you later did). If you received no response in a fair time frame (say 2 days or so), then you can try and reinstate the original wording. If you did receive a response but you feel the editor is being unresonable, there are the many avenues of dispute resolution.

Ultimately, if it does come to ANI, people are going to take far more kindly to you if you handled it as best as you could but the other editor clearly didn't, compared to the case where both sides come out of it looking poorly.

Nil Einne (talk) 17:27, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.

• Lugnuts harassing me? Well, I'll be. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 23:37, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Some unsolicited advice

Hi Curly. I am sorry to see the discussion about your comment towards another editor in regard to a content argument you were having. I have argued in your defence at AN/I, but I would advise you to do two things at this point. First, you should unreservedly apologise about that awful comment you made, and undertake never to repeat it, and you should mean those things. I get as protective about my work here as anyone, but it's the encyclopedia anyone can edit, and while that sucks sometimes when people mess with your work, that is what we all signed up for when we edited here. Secondly, having done that you should walk away from defending your work for the next 24 hours or so. This should include withdrawing from the AN/I discussion after your sincere apology, and also from all discussion or editing of the article. I will be happy to put "dead" vs "deceased" which I will also walk away from. This isn't an administrative warning, as I know you and have worked with you, and am also in a minor dispute with you about a word in the article concerned. Well done for all your work at Wikipedia, of which I think this article is a good example. None of these minor points about formatting or euphemism are worth getting upset about or anybody getting blocked for. Please think about following my advice, as I believe this would be in everybody's best interests. Best wishes, --John (talk) 21:39, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

• Thanks you. I'm taking your advice, though it frustrates me no end because I can't help but feel that Lugnuts will provoke something like this again. By the way, it wasn't me but Crisco who reverted you—I just chimed in on the talk page. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 22:07, 15 August 2015 (UTC) And here and here are evidence that he's only interested in stirring shit. This will never end, and I'm not the only victim of this. How does he get away with it? Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 08:22, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

• Right. I've commented on that issue on the talk page. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 02:12, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

"That" vs. "who"

Please go find it yourself; that's your job, not mine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive881#.22Phantom.22_Consensus_Talks Cebr1979 (talk) 04:59, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

• Actually, no, the onus is on the person who wants to make the change to provide evidence the change is valid, and you've provided none—but look, I'm nice, so here y'go. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 08:28, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

That conversation you linked to is mostly about "he/she" and they have nothing to do with what we're discussing. The few times "who" comes up, you're the only one who thinks you're right. Please just go with the consensus. It is correct.Cebr1979 (talk) 08:47, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

"running away from"

Huh?Cebr1979 (talk) 00:34, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

• Just went through your talk page history. Wow—now I know why you keep blanking it. "I can revert you till the cows come home." (!) You've even been blocked for blanking your block notices. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 07:35, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

You've been asked at least 5 times to stop clouding WT:MOS with straw man mischaracterizations

If you don't stop blatantly lying about my and others' views and arguments there in an attempt to derail an RfC you don't like, patience with these antics is going to run out very, very quickly. Six requests to stop is more than enough.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  03:31, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

• The mischaracterization is on your part—blatant lies like "you think the goal her is to prevent use of "is" and "[s]he" and "who" in in-universe writing". The issue from top to bottom has been the proposed prohibition on personal pronouns in out-of-universe writing about fictional characters. all the heat stems from your endless tirades (which the MoS folk are very familiar with) and your refusal to engage with the evidence (your Sherlock Holmes example is possibly the most severe case of cognitive dissonance I've encountered on Wikipedia, with your full-on mindreading of the author's alleged intentions). I've made far more than six requests for hard evidence from you, and your response was "Good day". Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 03:44, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
  • Speaking of lying: "To him this debate is only about "banning" the use of "we" and the like in fiction". I had no idea you were so desperate as to stoop to that. Every example I've given—without exception—has been strictly out-of-universe: every example, every link, everything. Whatever respect I ever had for you has vanished. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 03:52, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

I'll never understand these people

[1] Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 13:46, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

(watching) people can handle their talk as they please, no? - congrats to the article! - (old but not dated) advice from PumpkinSky: have a clean version of before TFA day, don't look all day, revert to it and add only the improvements, - confessing that I never managed to follow that advice ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:53, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Sure they are, and I'm free to comment on it. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 14:35, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Both are of course allowed. Congrats on the TFA of a well-written article of a powerful graphic novel! In our community, I just saw this title in a major bookstore in the "Required Reading" display, set up for the Fall students. I'm proud to link to Spiegelman in my current FAC. (However, I'm also secretly proud of the expert's quote in the last sentence of this section of this article.) Gerda, There's no way I would follow that advice; I have reverted some breathtaking hacks to FAs in the middle of the day. Cheers, Prhartcom (talk) 17:12, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Officially random

Okay, so the somewhat obscure and thoroughly out-of-print Goodman Beaver gets 32,794 TFA pageviews, and the million-selling, Pulitzer Prize-winning Maus gets 20,958. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 06:17, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

It's such a downer. ;-)

Speaking of random, be glad you don't live in the United States and can't even vote in your own country: (warning: silly humor) this is what we're faced with in American politics. Prhartcom (talk)

It took me a minute to realize what was going on—no, the "Bad Lip Reading Pesents" didn't clue me in. But what do you mean by "can't vote"? Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 22:10, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

And these poli's are not any more intelligent with the real sound on, believe me. Oh good, is that not an issue? I thought I remember reading on your user page some time ago that you were disenfranchised and weren't allowed to vote (to keep Harper in office as long as possible, of course ;-) Prhartcom (talk) 01:25, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Oh! I didn't realize that "your" was referrring to me. Funny story—that decision was overturned, so it looked like I was going to get to vote in the upcoming election. Then about a month ago it was appealed and overturned again—just after Harper replaced two of the three judges (I don't understand that part—it's a provincial court, not federal). Apparently it's going to the Supreme Court next month, but not in time for the election. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 01:39, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

• <blank stare> Sigh. I frankly don't know if I'm franchised or not. Considering how much attention the Canadian government has shown me here (zip, nada, zilch), I don't care. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 01:43, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

I care; I'm actually really into politics; it's what I usually read. Figures about Harper. I'm not a fan of the guy. But America's right wing (Republicans) are much worse. A typical Facebook post is, "If they get their way on that, I'm moving to Canada." But Australia's Tony Abbott is off the deep end also. Great; it sounds like you and your wife will get to vote soon. Hope you do also, Chris. Prhartcom (talk) 01:55, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

• In eight years of living here, I haven't even received a voter's registration card. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 02:20, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
  • The Canadian government never sent out voter registration cards to expats, even before Harper had the law changed (I've been in Japan since 1998). You have to fill out a form from Elections Canada and they'll send you the stuff (or would have—after five years non-residence you now lose the right to vote, traitor). I'm not sure how the States handles it, but I do know that Americans never lose the right to vote. Switzerland sends out notice every time there's an election (I've got Swiss neighbours), and so does the Japanese government (my wife got notice when she was living in South America). The Japanese situation really surprised me, as the Japanese tend to be pretty politically apathetic (when they're not extremist loons) and they don't put the social emphasis on "democracy" and "rights" that North Americans typically do. My wife, for example, refuses to vote and thinks the whole system's bullshit, but couldn't believe the Canadian government would actually strip people of the right to vote (1.4 million out of 2.8 million expats—a population that would make up the fourth-largest Canadian city). (Yes, I noticed you said you don't care, but I'll rant just the same) Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 02:54, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Prhartcom: the further the GOP slides to the right, the further they alienate voters—the next election is the Democrats' to lose. The Canadian election coming up is exciting because there are so many likely outcomes—all three parties seem to have a shot at either first or second place (some recent polls actually had the CPC in third briefly)—and it's all so much more bitter than it was in the Canada I grew up in. I miss the Natural Law Party and their wonderful commercials: "I'm an expert at making things disappear"; "A perfect government" ... I can't find the one where Doug Henning proclaims "I made an elephant disappear ... I can make the deficit disappear!" (but I know I didn't imagine it). Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 03:46, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Reference errors on 23 August

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Take a look

..at the article about Ester Claesson and Lo Kauppi. Thank you.--BabbaQ (talk) 17:53, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

• from a mission made by Joseph Maria Olbrich's influential costumer Julius Glückert: I don't understand—a religious mission? Or should that be "commission"? I can't read the source. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 21:33, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
• I have no idea what "criminal case critical play" means. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 21:54, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

Baxter Stockman

I'm surprised to see you editing this page, given your recent comments about "driveby editing" on pages an editor "otherwise has no stake in" and "has not previously made edits to."Cebr1979 (talk) 23:37, 25 August 2015 (UTC)

• I primarily edit in comics, and my edits were not in the least controversial—or did you have some problem with what I did? My edit even tightened the lead in such a way as to avoid what you perceive as a "problem". You, on the other hand? You're trolling both here and there. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 00:00, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
  • We are definitely meeting at ANI. I'm in the middle of something but, once I'm done... I wonder if that's something you will also "barf at?"Cebr1979 (talk) 00:07, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
    • Which has been your goal all along. Those "lol"s in particular will go over so well proving your good faith and dedication to improving the encyclopaedia. You might want to read WP:BOOMERANG before shooting yourself in the foot, especially in light of your continuing with your contentious edits in the midst of an RfC about those edits and your declaration to continue to do so regardless of whatever the consensus might turn out to be. Your persistent harassment of a user after being told to stay off their talk page ain't gonna look too good, either. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 00:08, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.Cebr1979 (talk) 00:44, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

• Well, you can't say I didn't warn you the boomerang. Curly Turkey ¡gobble! 03:32, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Requested Move Tou -> Buttou

Hello there! I saw you are a member of Wikiproject Japan; I just requested a move here for the Tou/塔 article, since it seemed to be kind of a weird title given the contents. It'd be lovely if you could take a look or point someone appropriate at it. Thanks, --124.39.78.114 (talk) 11:05, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Reference errors on 27 August

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Take a look

.. at Micael Bindefeld, Anna Bråkenhielm and Saga Becker.--BabbaQ (talk) 23:40, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Reboot

"I have no confidence you will approach the reboot next week in good faith." Just watch me.  :-) If you don't put words in my mouth, I'm skeptical we'll have any further issues. Despite your own assumptions, I'm actually quite reasonable, do not hold grudges, and have no wish to perpetuate disputes, but resolve them and move on. I will express confidence, using the positive thinking principle, that the reboot will be framed neutrally and clearly, and that it will be advertised in a non-leading way, and focus on whether MOS should say anything about use of pronouns, and if so what it should say, not on declarations of what's "normal" [to you], or any attempts to pre-load the discussion in a binary, black-and-white way that amounts to a reductio ad absurdum. We do not need an RfC that reads anything like "Should personal pronouns be banned from discussion of out-of-universe discussion of fictional characters?". I trust that you understand this.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  04:03, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

• Not getting off to a good start here—suggesting that I've put words into people's mouths, worded things in a leading way, or in any way at any time acted in bad faith. I started the RfC to solve a problem: the assertion by members of WP:COMIC that there is a consensus that personal pronouns are to be avoided with characters in out-of-universe contexts. The RfC will be framed to deal with that assertion. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 05:27, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Kanae Yamamoto (artist)

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Kanae Yamamoto (artist) you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Winner 42 -- Winner 42 (talk) 23:41, 1 September 2015 (UTC)

Over the head

1) I don't think you did anything wrong; your comment[2] was well within my personal bell curve of acceptable Wikipedia talk page sass. 2) Please take it easy on SMcCandlish anyway. This guy has been snarling at shadows for weeks, and I'm starting to realize that it's slightly more than his baseline. Something might be going on. Darkfrog24 (talk) 14:09, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

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A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	For your painful but sadly needed work sorting out the History of Japan! SchroCat (talk) 12:20, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

• Oh, God, you're watching that? I'm just about ready to give up. Some of those editors have agendas incompatible with improving content---what a fucking waste of time and energy. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 12:30, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

• Not watching (thankfully for my sanity!), but I came across it today and looked over bits of it and the talk page with a massive sinking feeling... POV pushing and competence issues bundled into obstinate editors does not make for decent content! – SchroCat (talk) 18:33, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

• • Well, I've been trolled enough and have withdrawn my services. The article can (and will) rot. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 13:39, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

IPA

Thanks for your help with the IPA at Perovskia atriplicifolia. If it's not too much trouble, would you mind doing the same for Mammillaria spinosissima? RO^(talk) 18:12, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

• Rationalobserver: sorry it took me a while to get back. I saw your comment on my phone, and then forgot about it next time I got on my laptop. Looking around the web, I see a few sites giving spin-oh-SIS-ee-muh as pronunciation, so I imagine it's like /ˌmæmɪˈlæriə ˌspɪnoʊˈsɪsimə/ {{IPAc-en|m|æ|m|ɪ|ˈ|l|æ|r|i|ə|_|s|p|ɪ|n|oʊ|ˈ|s|ɪ|s|i|m|ə}}. Of course, these things are pronounced differently in different dialects, but I'm going for something that follows Help:IPA for English, isn't overly hairsplitting, and (I hope) readers can easily enough "translate" into their own dialect. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 09:07, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

That's great, Curly Turkey. Thanks a lot! RO^(talk) 18:53, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

If it's not too much trouble, would you mind making an IPA for Echinocereus reichenbachii. Thanks! RO^(talk) 16:09, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

• Rationalobserver: Well, I'm having trouble finding the correct pronunciation. This site says it's re-ken-bak-ee-ee (which seems like an anglicized version of the correct Latin pronunciation) and this other place gives ry-ken-BAHK-ee-eye (which seems to me like a more likely English pronunciation). Do you have an authoritative source for the pronunciation? Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 21:47, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

I couldn't find anything that looked authoritative, but I'll bet your instincts are close, if not exact. I'll keep searching though. Thanks for your help! RO^(talk) 22:03, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

And googling around I see the pronunciations "eck-in-o-seer-us" where I've always said "e-kine-o-seer-us"—this book gives the latter. Does this mean that "eus" is normally pronounced "us"? How do you pronounce it? Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 22:11, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

I guess I thought it was more like "e-kine-o-sayree-us", but I'm really not sure. RO^(talk) 22:26, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Hmm ... you probably don't want to ugly up the lead with a pile of different pronunciations and pronunciaiton combinations, especially if none of them are authoritative. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 22:29, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

No I don't. I'll keep looking, and if I find anything that looks authoritative I'll get back to you. Thanks again for the advice. RO^(talk) 22:33, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Copyedit request

Could you please take a look at the article on Christopher Wilder. Any help is appreciated as always :).--BabbaQ (talk) 23:34, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Turkey Kills Lemons

Turkey walked up to my lemon bush and killed the lemons. That boy will pay for his damage! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ingenito919 (talk • contribs) 23:16, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

• No, this isn't a driveby—it's in response to these lemons. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 23:21, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

All clear

Here are the results of SMcCandlish's formal complaint against me. Admin page: [3] Talk:SmC: [4] Talk: Darkfrog: [5] That could have gone better. Darkfrog24 (talk) 12:53, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

• Well. The talk page at the MoS will certainly be quiet for the next two months. I was just about to announce that I wasn't going to bother with the reboot of the RfC because I found the discussions too draining. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 13:36, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

I mean that if you and JG66 want to get back to working out the intro sentence, you don't need to make sure you haven't run out of Valium. Darkfrog24 (talk) 19:04, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

He's already accused me of bad faith enough times that I don't want to give him any more fodder. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 23:58, 9 September 2015 (UTC)

Darkfrog24: And here he is using a strawman while accusing me of strawman-ism. I have no faith in ever being able to communicate with this person. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 13:01, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

I have to wonder if his commenting on "patterns" he "recognizes" in me violates this. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 13:04, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

Future Perfect's September topic ban of SMC had an expiration date of two months, and it was overturned on appeal two days before it would have ended anyway. I'm not really sure what the argument was. I'll see if I can find the thread.

I'm going to be speaking very carefully because I'm the one under topic ban right now. Both I and admins have asked SMC to leave me the heck alone, so instead of restating what's been going on, I'm going to direct you to posts to which he has already had a chance to reply and defend himself. [6] (first line) [7] (red and green text)

If you want to vent and blow off steam and just talk about frustration with SmC, that's one thing. If you have something concrete enough for a formal complaint, I'd be interested in hearing about it. Some of this may be corroborating. However, as tired I am of turning the other cheek for this editor and handing him benefit of the doubt only to see him set it on fire, I am still 100% committed to being fair. Darkfrog24 (talk) 14:20, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

Civility

Do not make comments about other editors such as you did here [8]. Thanks Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 22:33, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

• I've altered my comment. Better? Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 23:02, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

My next hairdo

I'm so going for this. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 05:01, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Ride the Lightning

Hey Turkey! First of all, thanks for your help on Kill 'Em All, which got promoted a week ago. Now I need some advice on Ride the Lightning, something like an unofficial peer review at the talk page. Sugestions on what's missing, what needs to be corrected, c/e, would be great. I know the article right now is not even a GA, but I plann to nominate this one after New Year, so I got plenty of time to work on it.--Retrohead (talk) 18:51, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Hey Turkey, I cnaged the description on "Escape", but I could not find much musical analysis on Google Books about it. A couple of authors (Popoff and McIver) call it forgettable, and don't go deeper in structure and lyrics. If you can enter some other books on Google Books I'd be very thankful.--Retrohead (talk) 12:13, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Retrohead: Damaga Incorporated only mentions the song in passing, quoting "Fight for my own, to live my own way." (p. 148) and calling the song "relatively obscure" (p. 214).

To Live is to Die has more:

The next song, "Escape", picked up some flak from the metal legions for its supposed move into commercial metal ground – an accusation that carries some weight. With its slightly Bon Jovi-esque chorus of "Out for my own, out to be free" and a much lighter riff weight than any other song on the album apart from "Fade to Black", "Escape sits a little uneasily in the catalogue.

In bass terms, however, it was a heaven-sent opportunity for Cliff to exercise his skills, since melodic metal played at slow to mid-tmep allows plenty of room for the bass guitar to move. The intro, a chugged plus metallic riff, features a couterpoint melody on the bass before the song resolves into a standard down-stroked riff. There's no ignoring that chorus, though – which, given John Marshall's earlier comment about Cliff helping Lars to "avoid a lot of winpy rock", seems completely at odds with the rest of the album.

Still, like most bands, Metallica were and remain at lest partially democratic, and judging from what peopl have told us about Cliff so far, we can ssume that he let this rather flaccid song through the normally rigorous Burton quality control with no more than a resigned shrug. In any case, "Escape" leaves the door open for the fantastic "Creeping Death" ... (p. 212)

I'll see what else I can find. If you can find a Ride the Lightning TAB book, there might be some commentary in there. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 02:01, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

From Enter Night:

Of the eight tracks on Ride the Lightning – as they had decided to call the album after another of its centrepiece tracks – almost all would survive to become cornerstones of the long-term Metallica mythology: the only exception being the one track that seemed to offer a shred of light amidst the unrelenting gloom, a Thin Lizzy-esque mini-anthem in the making called "Escape", its comparatively upbeat message – "Life is for my own, to live my own way" – being the exception to the rule in the otherwise unremittingly bleak landscape of Hetfield's lyrics.

...

The writing credits were also more evenly shared this time. The two most important tracks ("Fade..." and "Creeping...") were credited to all four members. Two to Hetfield, Ulrich and Burton ("Fight..." and "For Whom..."); two to Hetfield, Ulrich, Burton and Mustaine ("Ride..." and "...Ktulu") and the least significant two to Hetfield, Ulrich and Hammett ("Trapped..." and "Escape").

...

When I teased him [Lars] and asked if they had ever tried – just once – to write a commercial hit song, he relaxed again and admitted, "One time and one time only," citing "Escape", in so many words, their Thin Lizzy-esque romp from Ride. The fact that neither Music for Nations nor Elektra had eventually chosen it as a single – the former preferring the more à la mode "Creeping Death", the latter not bothering to release a single at all – only reinforced their conviction, he said, that they should never "depend on adapting to whatever mode popular music is in at any given moment. We're into sticking to what we wanna do, sticking to all the things we, as a band, believe in. And if we can stick to what we are, sooner or later people will have to change their ideas about us and not the other way around."

Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 02:12, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

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Re: AlbinoFerret

Hey, nice to see someone else other than "my attack dog" (don't ask who called him that) has noticed this user's disruptive behaviour. As far as I can tell there are currently five users trying to drive me off Wikipedia, mostly (apparently) for no reason other than shits and giggles, it would seem. Two of them (the ones whose usernames begin with J and B) are old boys, and so are untouchable, so I've been trying my best to avoid them. Two (the ones whose usernames begin with C and T) are themselves already overdue to be indefinitely blocked for the disruption they cause to the project, so I'm not that worried about their long-term chances of driving me off.

AlbinoFerret, though, appears to be a different animal. He was essentially an SPA for most of his account's history, until the one article he was involved in was the subject of a massive ANI fustercluck, at which point he apparently started putting most of his efforts into noticeboards, and acting like an admin by unilaterally and rather clumsily closing complicated RFCs. He still hardly ever touches the mainspace, but rarely seems to get called out for hanging around ANI and occasionally calling for the heads of productive users.

Have you seen anything like it before? Any idea how to work with such users?

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 10:03, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

I have no idea. Until very recently I had rarely even seen inside ANI—out of 134 edits there in my entire editing history, 78 have been in the last month. I did have a chuckle when I checked out his (?) edit history—virtually nothing to editspace, and out of 7000 edits total, 1641 were to Talk:Electronic cigarette—the fucking talk page—which has 25 archives. For Electronic cigarette?! Talk:State of Palestine has only 12!

ANI's a whole other story—I figured out something was horribly wrong when AlbinoFerret called to have me indef blocked (!!!) for swearing at Lugnuts—and then tried to distort the record by saying I'd editwarred by reverting two IP vandals as well as Lugnuts—get that? Reverting two unambiguous IP vandals on the TFA day (AF even acknowledged it) plus Lugnuts equalled a violation of 3RR (!?!?!). My jaw dropped that someone would pull that. We're talking about someone who's actively practising gaming the system.

What to do? Keep records, I guess, and have them ready when things boomerang on AlbinoFerret some day. He's a net negative on Wikipedia and the number of people who realize it appears to be growing. He's likely monitoring our talkpages for "proof" that we're buds or something—he's already presented "proof" of that since we both edited History of Japan, right? A part of me says you can't win the game without learning to play it yourself, but that's a path I never want to follow ... Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 13:39, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Oh my god... I was aware of his interest in the electronic cigarette article, but... I had no idea the archives for that page were so long... I guess we know why he feels such an affinity for CurtisNaito, then. ;-) Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 14:08, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Seeing this, AlbinoFerret's opinion has significantly dropped in value, and it's now obvious why he shows up in practically every ANI thread I've seen. ミーラー強斗武 (StG88ぬ会話) 14:42, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

And now he has all the evidence he needs thus us WP:JAPAN guys hang out together all the time. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 14:46, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

CT, just remember ... Wildfire can't melt Valyrian steel beams ... ;-) Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 15:08, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Because of course, our discussing AlbinoFerret's disruption after the thread has been closed, it means we had prearranged collusion in the matter.[9] That must be why you weighed in on the dispute between CurtisNaito and everyone else on Talk:Emperor Jimmu early summer 2014, and why you and I fought over the same article later that summer. We planned this whole thing out years in advance. Because I'm the paranoid one. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 15:13, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Somehow I missed that it closed---ANI's too active, and I'll be glad to get it back off my watchlist. What should we collude next? How about George-Paschal Desbarats, so we'll have proof our long collaboration extends far beyond the realm of WP:JAPAN. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 15:29, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Well, you could help me figure out this problem: I have no doubt that John Carter thinks I'm "uncivil" because I called his behaviour on this thread that of a madman (he kept insisting, despite being corrected numerous times, that I was involved in, and forum-shopping, a then-open DRN thread about Daisaku Ikeda, despite my having not posted on DRN in years, and my having never edited the Daisaku Ikeda article, at that point). And maybe it was uncivil for me to call his behaviour insane; but it was once, six months ago, and I apologized and requested peaceable cooperation only eleven hours later. But the real question is why John Carter even thought I was involved in the Daisaku Ikeda dispute -- he himself was involved, so he must have known I had nothing to do with it. The whole thing just didn't make a whole lot of sense, and has been confusing the hell out of me ever since -- did the incident colour John Carter's entire perception of me, and that is why he has been seeking my head ever since? Or was he deliberately gaming the system by making accusations he knew I would probably be so shocked and offended by that I would likely call him a lunatic rather than simply deny, thus giving him an excuse to call for me to be banned for incivility? It's pretty damn confusing... Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 15:51, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Well, I'm not familiar enough with John Carter (is he an ANI regular?). My impression is he pushes for punishments with a little too much zeal, but I haven't seen anything that makes me suspect him of anything. He might be confusing different discussions (say, Soka Gakkai). I forget why I was looking, but I thought you were involved in this discussion at Nanking massacre that I tried to referee—probably because there were a lot of long comments on a politically-charged Japan article, and the impression you've made on me is that you post lots of long comments on politically-charged Japan articles. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 21:37, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

On topics he knows about, yeah, he is an ANI regular. Generally, I am among those least likely to "pull the trigger," if I can see any other options open. Unfortunately, Hijiri is actively minimizing the amount of contact, and the regularity of contact, I have had with him, and, well, contact he has had with others, I think at least in one case by e-mail, about me. I know of at least one such message of the last type myself. My primary field of interest is religion, because my town has a huge stock of theology books, and I have some experience in the field. I think it might help a lot if you review all the ANI's in recent months involving Hijiri, and the discussions prompting them. I think you would be really surprised by the amount of them, and the regularity of what some might call the regularity of Hijiri's use of both wall-of-words tactics and rather regular vitriol. And, FWIW, I saw this discussion because it was linked to on Dennis Brown's talk page, specifically indicating that some of the comments here seemed to be continuing the civility problem which has been noted a lot lately. John Carter (talk) 22:46, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Oh, that comment where AlbinoFerret accused us of collusion, as I predicted he would? I'd like to see Hijiri do something about the wall-of-words, but I don't think it's a "tactic"—I think concision is not his forté, and I've dropped out of any number of talk page discussions because I didn't have the patience for it (though he's not the only offender). That and the language are issues, but out of all the issues (content disputes, editwarring, endless IDHT discussions, TLDR comments) the language is the least disruptive—yet the easiest to target at ANI, as it's easy to provide a diff for a "you idiot", but difficult to dig up and interpret diffs for patterns of disruptive behaviours, and difficult to get people at ANI to take the time and effort to work through them (and easy to dismiss them as a "wall of words"). Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 01:03, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

I notice John Carter directly commented here, without even mentioning his bizarre and completely outrageous "slip-up" when I first encountered him, except to say that he only comments on ANI discussions of subject he "knows about", indicating that it couldn't have been an accidental confusing of one Japanese Buddhist with another who was born after the first one died. Odd. Does this indicate that it was a deliberate and bad-faith attempt to get a rise out of me? If i had made a completely false accusation against John Carter in the way he accused me, it would probably count as "incivility" again, wouldn't it... Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 01:15, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

Apatosaurus

Hello, would you like to look at Apatosaurus for FAC? LittleJerry (talk) 23:24, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

DYK for Ester Claesson

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 14:51, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

George Ham

The article says he was born in Trenton, Ontario, which is in Quinte West. (We apply "people from" categories based on current boundaries, even if they're not the ones that were applicable at the time.) Bearcat (talk) 21:22, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Newspaper search

Gotta remember this: site:news.google.com/newspapers

And https://news.google.com/newspapers

Hi

If you find time for it you can take a look at the article Gustav Laabs that I just created. Any help is appreciated.--BabbaQ (talk) 20:04, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

Head's up (TWL)

Since the T&F access didn't quite have what you were looking for, I thought I'd let you know that WP:EBSCO has Japan Forum, Japanese Studies, and a few other things of potential interest - launching today. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:12, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

DYK for Lo Kauppi

Gatoclass (talk) 01:37, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Kanae Yamamoto (artist)

The article Kanae Yamamoto (artist) you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:Kanae Yamamoto (artist) for things which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Coemgenus -- Coemgenus (talk) 02:40, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Nobody cares about article creation

Yeesh. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 02:58, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Reference errors on 19 September

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GA reassessment for History of Japan

History of Japan, an article that you or your project may be interested in, has been nominated for a community good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 06:49, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

Hey, remember that time a certain user followed me to several articles and Wikipedia namespace discussions?

Re this: The same thing has just happened again. I'm trying to keep my own number of posts on the GAR page to a minimum for obvious reasons, and I'm a bit concerned that pointing out that TH1980 is posting there not because he actually has checked all of the sources (he obviously hasn't) but because he wants to undermine me as he has been doing since early May might count as an user behaviour remark in a content-based forum, and I'm trying my darnedest to avoid that these days. Also, I did ping him -- but that was assuming he wasn't just going to show up and post the opposite of whatever I did. Any chance you'd be willing to post a notice of this somewhat suspect behaviour below his !vote instead? I'm posting this on-wiki rather than by email because I have no problem with other users knowing that I think TH1980 is hounding me; I just don't want to have to post it myself on the GAR page and open myself up for worse. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 18:21, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

• There's enough evidence of that, like his comment at the Matsui FAC, but I don't think it's really necessary—enough commenters will point out the issues with the article and with the review beyond the sourcing issues. The last thing we want is drama, so: 黙殺? Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 21:37, 20 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Ah ... I see you've already responded since I started typing my reply. I'd shut up now, or you'll just give them fodder for making this a Hijiri vs CurtisNaito thing, which it's already being shaped into. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 21:50, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

Didn't see your comment before responding this morning. Dennis and Kingsindian explicitly told me to limit replies to CurtisNaito to one or two, so that's what I'm doing. I haven't touched TH1980's extremely dubious problem of showing up wherever I go, either. I'm worried now, though, because an obvious Korean-POV sleeper-sock has shown up as well, so in terms of "numbers" it's three-against-four until someone else weighs in. So pointing out that every Wikipedian who didn't either nominate the page for GA status or show up to undermine me or show up after a seven-year period of inactivity are in favour of delisting might be a necessity... Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 02:34, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

Oh, Jesus ... I thought the GAR would be pretty open-and-shut—it's clear the article's problematic and the review was inadequate, but now it's being drowned in inter-editor squabbling. Honestly, I think everyone should just have presented their case and left it like that, and the closer would have demoted it whatever TH1980 had to say. He should have just been ignored, but now he has the opportunity to whip out a "I think that your errors here have been corrected enough times already"—of course we know he's done no such thing, but a third party is going to see that and assume it's an interpersonal dispute. My advice is to stop now, because it's far too easy for him to game the discussion the more you acknowledge him. It's advice I'd like to give Nishidani and Signedzzz before they pop by, but I don't think they'd be interested in what I have to say. You guys are your own worst enemies, y'know? Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 06:44, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

AlbinoFerret's tinfoil kettle

I sent you an email. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 17:09, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

TAFI

If you want to you can please review my noms at TAFI. I need some more input. Thanks. Wikipedia:Today's articles for improvement/Nominations.--BabbaQ (talk) 16:05, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

User:Curly Turkey/Mosquito

Hi, I found User:Curly Turkey/Mosquito which I looks like your draft page for your edits at How a Mosquito Operates. I'm cleaning out the old template:cite isbn templates but I think per policy, wouldn't it be better to make the page a redirect to the current article rather than leave the draft up? -- Ricky81682 (talk) 08:19, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

• I don't care one way or the other. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 08:23, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Nervous Breakdown release date

Hello. I realized that you recently reverted one of my edits regarding the release date of Black Flag's debut Nervous Breakdown. I know that almost everywhere on Wikipedia where the EP is mentioned listed the release date as 1978, and that many other websites give this figure. However, it was actually released in early 1979, and I have recently changed many of these instances on Wikipedia to the correct date. In this 1980 fanzine interview, Greg Ginn stated that the record was "recorded in January '78 and released over a year later." Therefore, it had to be released in 1979. You may also want to take a look at this discussion we had over at Discogs.com regarding this issue. Pazuzu65 (talk) 06:59, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

• The problem with that is that Wikipedia relies on what it considers reliable sources, and that the date you've discovered would qualify as original research. I can understand that may be frustrating, but unless reliable third-party sources can be found to contradict the sources already used, we can't claim the date you've discovered. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 07:02, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
  • But how is an interview with an actual band member not considered reliable? Those aren't my words, those are Greg Ginn's, quoted from around the time of release. If it wasn't released until "over a year later" just as Ginn stated, then it had to be released in 1979. Pazuzu65 (talk) 07:48, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
    • A vague, casual statement in an interview is normally not what possess for an RS, particularly when it's contradicted by virtually every other source. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 09:07, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

History of Japan reversion and other matters

I suppose your concern could, reasonably, be taken to ANI, if it seems to have been, basically, contrary to consensus. Also, if you weren't already aware, there is a current request for arbitration involving Hijiri88 and sundry others. This questionable behavior might be seen as qualifying, broadly, in the scope of that case, if it is taken of course. If you yourself saw fit to add anything to the request itself, or to the case if it is taken, you are, of course, more than welcome to do so. John Carter (talk) 17:14, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

@John Carter: It was nothing to be taken to ANI (unless you count CT's vulgarity and NPA). It was an accident that has already been resolved anyway. ミーラー強斗武 (StG88ぬ会話) 17:45, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

@Sturmgewehr88:, if you had bothered to check the time stamps, you would have noticed that the matter had been apparently resolved on the talk page about half an hour before the post. I admit, I had not checked the article talk page before my original post, and I apologize for having not seen that. However, I find the arrogant and self-righteous nature of your above comment frankly disgustingly amusing, considering that, if anyone could be thought to be beating a dead horse, it is the person who clearly falsely accuses others of improper actions when it is clear from the very nature of the comments in that section that they were discussing that the allegations made had nothing to do with reality, but were simply the presumptuous, inaccurate, assumptions who blindly comments based on his own irrational defense of his buddy. I am speaking specifically of you, Sturmgewehr, and your frankly laughable impugning of me at Dennis Brown's talk page. I do hope you realize that, if the ArbCom case is taken, and of course as I said Curly is free to comment if he sees fit, that you realize the behavior of all editors involved may well be examined, and, frankly, under the circumstances, I am far from believing that if you continue in the rather explicit, unexamined, assumptions of bad faith you have been making of late, you may not be particularly fond of what decisions they make. John Carter (talk) 17:59, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

The ArbCom case has nothing to do with either myself or the History of Japan article. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 20:54, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

Yet. I do not mean that to include you as an individual, but there is a good chance the behavior of CurtisNaito and interaction with him by Hijiri and others will be, considering they were both given "final warnings" by Dennis Brown in the last AN or ANI thread about the recent problems. And, in general, ArbCom reviews the behavior of all involved in a given point of contention. That is, of course, if the case is taken, but I think, under the circumstances, that might be more likely than not. If nothing else, if the case is accepted, you might want to watchlist it and mention anything you see fit to the evidence or proposed decision pages. John Carter (talk) 21:08, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

The problems I've had have been with neither CurtisNaito nor Hijiri—I'm there to copyedit, and my disputes are with those interfering with that. Don't fall for AlbinoFerret's allegations that Hijiri and I are in cahoots. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 22:44, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

The only people I have thought to be in cahoots are Hijiri and one or more of his most frequent supporters. I don't remember seeing you before at all (if we have met before, sorry about that), so you don't qualify for inclusion in that. Good luck with the copy editing, by the way. I saw a subject-verb problem in the first paragraph of a page an arb linked to yesterday. Granted, it's a poor article at this stage, but still indicates that a lot of the basic work, like comprehensibility, still needs to be done. John Carter (talk) 14:28, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

I've seen your name around, but I can't remeber in what context. I've given up on the copyedit—the article can rot. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 03:14, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

Reference errors on 27 September

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A barnstar for you!

	The Barnstar of Diligence
	For your efforts in defending Debito! I know you're another Debito fan boy, like me - but still! Mr. Di Griz (talk) 02:02, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

• Persistence is a gallant virtue, sir troll! Keep it up! Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble!

I'm not trolling. I'm totally serious. I even post on Debito's blog.

• Yay! Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 02:29, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

• high 5* to another Debito fan! I'm glad that you're here, gallantly defending Debito!! THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mr. Di Griz (talk • contribs) 02:40, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

*high 5 back*—whoops! Sorry, that was my gallant cock deep and snug down your throat. I always edit with my gallant cock in hand and keep forgetting which to toss up in delight. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 03:27, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

LOL! No need to get so aggressive there, Turkey. We're all on the same side here.

• Sorry! but whenever you visit it gets my testosterone pumpin'. 'Specially when you call me big, hairy words like "gallant". Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 03:57, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

Calm down, Turkey... Calm down... Us Debito fan boys need to stick together. Debitos before Hos.

A barnstar for you!

	The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar
	Gallant efforts. Mr. Di Griz (talk) 04:22, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for September 28

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Your GA nomination of Kanae Yamamoto (artist)

The article Kanae Yamamoto (artist) you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Kanae Yamamoto (artist) for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Coemgenus -- Coemgenus (talk) 22:01, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

• Coemgenus: Hey, I'm really sorry. I had just noticed when I got up this morning that I hand't responded to your last comment, and feel like a dick for that. Thanks a lot for taking the time to review the article. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 22:50, 29 September 2015 (UTC)
  • No worries. It's easy to let wiki-deadlines slip when real life intervenes. --Coemgenus (talk) 00:33, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

Second opinion?

You may have noticed, but our Iwane Matsui article was not promoted to FA because of the sourcing problems. I personally think it shouldn't even be a GA with the present sourcing (see the changing of a reliable source's wording from "ultranationalist propaganda" to "promoting pan-Asianism"), but I really don't think the time is right for me to reassess it, with all the crap I went through last month.

What do you think?

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 09:35, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

• I'd leave it for now. I don't think it's serious enough a violation to make a stink of it under the circumstances. By the way, I don't think it was a great idea to bring CurtisNaito up at ArbCom. If you're allowed to strike those bits, I would ASAP and keep your statements strictly on the case at hand. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 11:01, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

Technically I didn't bring him up at ArbCom; I commented on one of several other users who had already brought him up. The problem in question was that Dennis Brown was, through his own previous inaction, partly responsible for the current mess with the other user, but his comment read like his only relation to the issue was via the allegedly-related problem with CurtisNaito. But you're right, I suppose. Thanks! :-) Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 12:43, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

Books and Bytes - Issue 13

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 13, August-September 2015
by The Interior (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs), Sadads (talk · contribs), Nikkimaria (talk · contribs)

• New donations - EBSCO, IMF, more newspaper archives, and Arabic resources
• Expansion into new languages, including Viet and Catalan
• Spotlight: Elsevier partnership garners controversy, dialogue
• Conferences: PKP, IFLA, upcoming events

Read the full newsletter

The Interior via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:29, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

DYK for Anna Bråkenhielm

 — Chris Woodrich (talk) 06:11, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Please explain

Why did you feel the need to delete my comment on the talk section of Debito's page? What policy did I violate? Do you really need to resort to language like "having a bug up your arse"?

Well, yes. You're the IP-hopping troll, and you edit virtually nothing but Debito's page with the same style comments as you post with all your IPs. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 11:45, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

I saw that, but it's got no connection to me - sorry.ChemicalG (talk) 11:55, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Except that it does, troll. Of course, if you're blocked, you'll just come back as another Browny Cow or some shit. It's amazing you would dedicate yourself to this horseshit. Did Debito fuck your girlfriend or something? Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 12:00, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Again - it isn't me. You should go and get someone to check on it or something. I've never ip hopped or whatever, nor would I know how. And browny cow isn't me, maybe you should check that out too.

You should also take a look at the sort of abusive language you use. If I were to play "amatuer psychologist" here, at a guess I'd say you behave like that because you're compensating for something? ChemicalG (talk) 12:08, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Seriously it isn't me with that ip thing. yes I know that because I've started off by editing one article it looks bad, but none of what you assert I did I've actually done. I don't know how to prove this to you but if you've got an email address or something private I can email you my number or my skype details so you can verify this for yourself. ChemicalG (talk) 12:36, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

Oh great

I just found a new tool, it was new to me, and I have been trying it out with various articles I improved. Then I tried it with this: FYI. Prhartcom (talk) 23:24, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

I don't get it—the first couple are just cut-and-paste jobs from the Wikipedia article (easily verified by the dates of the posts), but how is this a violation with 32.4% confidence? Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 23:34, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

Well now "oh great" for real and a few eye rolls thrown in. I see what you mean. We can't trust this damn tool. Prhartcom (talk) 00:52, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

Harvey's quoted in the article—I'm sure that has something to do with the results. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 01:37, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

While I've got you, can you tell me that "Comics" are not similar to "Book" and "Film" and the others you see here? Category:Media formats. I'd appreciate an honest, objective answer. Prhartcom (talk) 01:16, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

Form versus content. The novel, poetry, history, lexicography, and comics are artforms that can be communicated via a form such as a book. Comics itself is not tied to any form—the same comic strip, for example, may appear in a newspaper, magazine, book, poster, T-shirt, or cereal box without compromising its being a comic strip even in the slightest. "Film" is a little harder to wrap your head around as the term "film" is used to refer both to the content and to the physical format—perhaps if you call the artform "cinema" it's easier to understand. "Cinema" is an artform typically shot on "film" (and these days more frequently on "video"). "Newspaper", "Magazine", "book", "poster", "T-shirt", "cereal box", "film", "video"—these are formats, the vehicles by which the content is delivered. Cinema, comics, poetry, novels—these are not formats. You can't republish a poem as a novel format the way you could republish a comic strip as a poster. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 01:37, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

DYK for Gustav Laabs

Gatoclass (talk) 03:02, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

"the ArbCom case"

Speaking as someone who has stuck his nose into way too many ArbCom cases over the years, I do not in any way blame you for not wanting to be involved in the current one regarding Catflap08 and Hijiri88. I know from prior experience kidney stones may hurt a little worse for a while, but the pain doesn't last as long as the length of time it takes a case to close.

Having said that, it certainly is possible that CurtisNaito and some of the others involved might have their conduct reviewed, including me, and that presenting some information on the matter in question might be useful there. And I tend to believe that any requests for anything other than immediate blocks or similar at ANI or elsewhere while a possibly related ArbCom case is open tend to historically be pretty much non-starters.

I have no reason to think that your own conduct in any related matters is something the arbs are likely to find at all worth their addressing in the case, for what little that might be worth. John Carter (talk) 21:20, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

• What "not wanting to be involved"? I'm not involved---not even tangentially. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 21:28, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Agreed. I guess I was thinking of some of my own input at ArbCom over the years, like the recent GMO case, in which I have, according to a table on one of the pages, never even edited one of the more directly related articles or talk pages. But I added a statement about some party or parties to the case in the request stage, so, even if I have been in no particular way involved in the dispute prior to the case, I become involved by, basically, wanting to mouth off submit material regarding the conduct in related fields of some of those involved in that topic area. So, even if you as an individual are not in any way involved in the central dispute related to that case, you are free to submit any evidence you might think might be useful to the arbs in drafting a resolution of the matter. And, in lots of cases, that can include input from marginally related matters. CN is seeking to be a party, and, if he does become one, or if others whose conduct you find questionable or deserving consideration by the arbs do, you would, of course, be free to at least provide diffs to discussion you think might be useful to the arbs in drawing their conclusions. John Carter (talk) 21:42, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

We've talked about this before, haven't we? The issues with CurtisNaito would continue to be issues if Hijiri had never gotten involved. CurtisNaito is muddying the waters to make the case "Hijiri vs the World", which has AlbinoFerrett frothing in anticipation. I won't walk into such an obvious trap. The case has nothing to do with me—or with CurtisNaito. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 22:45, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Your rather obvious assumption of bad faith on the part of all, including me, is unfortunate. Regarding your point that the case has nothing to do with CN, CN isn't the only one who has brought himself up in the terms of that case. If you look at the opening statements of Dennis Brown requesting the case now at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Catflap08 and Hijiri88/Evidence, he specifically linked to and discussed a matter that had been at ANI regarding the matter of CN-Hijiri contact, and actually CN has requested being listed as a party. If you believe that there is a trap being laid, then it would be reasonable to, if nothing else, indicate that you have reason to believe such a trap might be being laid. I myself don't think that this is going to be the easiest case for the arbs to deal with, and I also don't think that it necessarily is going to lead to the kind of sanctions others have suggested, such as blocks on editors. If nothing else, if you think that CN is trying to muddy the waters and others, I guess including me, are attempting to lay some sort of trap, you might at least let the arbs know that. John Carter (talk) 23:06, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

The muddying of waters I've ascribed to CurtisNaito; the laying of traps I ascribe to AlbinoFerrett, who knows too well how to game the system, and I won't fall for it. Stop trying to get me involved. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 23:11, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Mm-hmm, burying the evidence. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 01:23, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

Baron Mooch

Hi, Curley. Markstein says, "Baron Mooch's daily-only comic strip began on Monday, November 1, 1909, in The Los Angeles Examiner, where Herriman was working at the time." The Oct. 12, 1909, date comes the book cite in the "Comic strips by George Herriman" section of George Herriman. Giving Markstein's scholarship, I thought it was worth addressing since unaddressed discrepancies tend to have ripple effects. What do you think? --Tenebrae (talk) 23:48, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

No, though I have Goulart's 100 Years of American Newspaper Comics, which doesn't mention Mooch. Still, if there are now two sources saying Nov. 1, this might be worth addressing. I'm always a little wary with gold-starred articles, but we may be onto something here. Should we move and interpolate our existing dialog to the Herriman talk page?--Tenebrae (talk) 00:12, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

Sound eminently reasonable, though, of course, per WP:WORLDVIEW, we should say "late 1909" rather than "autumn 1909." Would you mind tackling it? It's after 8 p.m. here and I'm kinda bushed! :-)   --Tenebrae (talk) 00:20, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

Brilliant! Damn, you're a good researcher! I know Baron Mooch doesn't have his own article, so do you think there's room for adding this image to the Herriman page, captioning it with the date? And then — not to call them out on it, by any means, but just to help prevent the wrong date from continuing to be disseminated — I think we should add a footnote saying Harvey and Markstein give an erroneous date of Nov. 1. As long as we keep it to a footnote, I think we're accomplishing due diligence. Also, having both well-respected historians Harvey and Markstein in the footnote shows that the error is a common one and helps explain away Nov. 1 appearing elsewhere. What do you think?--Tenebrae (talk) 17:22, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

I think I'd rather leave the 1 November date out, unless someone actually disputes it—the dated strip on its own should suffice to dissuade that. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 22:24, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

Hi Curley, Michael Tisserand here. I've never ever gone behind the curtains on wiki before but stumbled on your note about my Herriman bio. Please feel free to contact me if I can ever provide info on Herriman. You can find me on Facebook or michaeltisserand at yahoo ... The book is coming out, finally, in fall 2016 on HarperCollins. Tisserand NOLA (talk) 20:44, 21 January 2016 (UTC) Tisserand NOLA

@Tisserand NOLA: Well, that's great news! I've been looking forward to the book for a long time—both just to read and to improve the Herriman article. I'm sure Tenebrae would be interested as well. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 01:08, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Arbcom section

Notifying you that your name is on a section of the Arbcom case evidence page here Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Catflap08_and_Hijiri88/Evidence#Curly_Turkey. AlbinoFerret 12:36, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

• Yes, I know you're trying very, very hard ... Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 22:22, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

Guess who's still trolling you...

[10]

As though "hiding" things had anything to do with your motivation -- or mine, for that matter.

Once he can no longer hide behind the open ArbCom case someone really should propose sanctions for him.

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 13:08, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

• Oh, there's "hiding" going on all right, by AF and JC who are trying to filibuster the discussion with irrelevant bullshit. It's not ABF either ... it's BF. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 22:21, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

Sorry for the ambiguity. The piped link in my above post was meant to imply he was assuming bad faith on your part. That he himself is acting in bad faith is a given, but was not something I wanted to imply by linking to the ABF page. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 00:03, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

Fuck, I came across a couple of good sources after getting my EBSCO account that I want to use to expand John Wilson Bengough, but it looks like I've had to waste the window of time I had today dealing with this bullshit from an "editor" who can't be bothered with this "content" shit. Someone who's seriously WP:NOTHERE. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 05:25, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

You know, while hunting down diffs for the ArbCom case I was re-reading the entire history of Talk:Kenji Miyazawa and was reminded of my first interaction with AF. There had been an RFC left open despite having been resolved weeks earlier, and some genius on AN posted a request for an "experienced editor" to close it. (This was right before the big blowup about whether requests for closure should even work that way, if I recall correctly.) AF, apparently in an attempt to get his edit counter up, was going around unilaterally closing a bunch of them, and he made a massive faux-pas on the Kenji close (taking a concession one user on one side had made to one user on the other as a "consensus statement"). When I called him out on this and pointed out that at the time he had almost no edits that weren't related to electric cigarettes and so hardly qualified as "experienced", he pointed to his over 5k edits in a wide range of articles, even though probably 90% of those were related to electric cigarettes, apparently a more controversial topic by far than abortion and the Israel-Palestine dispute. (Part of the reason I'm on ArbCom now is because AG and his friends blame my verbosity and refusal resolve conflicts for the three archive pages on the Kenji talk page -- glass house much?) I don't remember why I just kind of left that hanging there -- I think I was stressed out with work stuff (fourth anniversary of the tsunami, UN World Conference on Disaster Risk Reduction and its aftermath).

The really ironic thing is that AF claims he is not collaborating with John Carter on the ANI thread because they "don't edit the same articles" -- which of course would be impossible because John Carter never edits articles that don't have "bibliography of encyclopedias" in the title (4,600 edits in the last 14 months, and 4,549 of them to this "topic area"), and AF apparently isn't much better. And the really ironic thing is how often John Carter calls me "paranoid" and accuses me of assuming bad faith, when he openly admitted that he thought I would "follow him to articles on Christianity" (an area he knows I was editing -- and on the same side as him! -- months before his recent conflict with me even started).

Sorry, just thought you'd get a chuckle out of some of the tremendous historical ironies of this conflict.

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 15:54, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

Funny indeed. Notice how AF tries to make it seem like he couldn't have a beef with me because he has "never edited an article" I have, to his knowledge? Also notice how he's included the ANI discussion as evidence against you? Evidence of what? It's linked without context. I can imagine 11 Arbs each clicking through and scratching their heads. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 16:04, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

I'm frankly hoping for just that. I don't really think the ArbCom case should be about anything but what its title says, but if it results in sanctions for the random trolls weighing in just for shits in giggles not realizing how serious their abuses are, it will be all the better. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 16:18, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

Wow—of the four open ArbCom cases, AF's involved in two of them. Remarkably, neither are Editor conduct in e-cigs articles. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 16:25, 24 October 2015 (UTC)

I never noticed this before but ... [11] I don't know whose user page is more shameless: the one who brags about how many hundred RFCs they sloppily closed, or the one who brags about how many poorly-sourced articles they managed to sneak past the GA reviewers. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 10:02, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

Don't jive me, Turkey...

...You've got to sass it!

(That's a Simpsons reference, in case you or anyone else reading is not aware, and chooses to read this as a personal attack, use of profanity, inappropriate ethnic stereotype or anything else of the sort. Your name being Turkey and your using the word "jive", I just couldn't resist.)

I replied to TH1980 on CurtisNaito's page because I knew if I did so on his own page he would just delete my post and insult me again. But I don't see any reason to hold a conversation with you on CurtisNaito's page when your own talk page is less hostile to me than Curtis's is. Given what has been happening recently, I deeply suspect this assertion might be taken by someone somewhere as "evidence" that I make baseless aspersions against others unless I provide solid evidence in the same post. So here: CurtisNaito's talk page is a hostile environment (diff, diff, diff, diff, diff) and TH1980 deletes my posts on his talk page and insults me (diff, diff, diff). (I'm also pretty sure CurtisNaito has been engaged in undisclosed off-wiki contact with these two users, and very possibly one more, about me and how I have been "harassing" him and some other long-blocked users like Enkyo2 and JoshuSasori.)

Anyway, as for Henshall "jiving" with other sources, that's what I meant by "dubious material" -- I will check what our article attributes to Henshall against what sources I do have access to. If "Henshall" (our article's representation) jives with real world Henshall but not with other sources, we can have a discussion, but if our article cites Henshall and real-world Henshall doesn't say what our article attributes to him, obviously that material must be removed immediately.

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 06:47, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

(Note that the "possibly one other user" has admitted quite openly to receiving email contact from a user who is apparently in good standing, with no blocks or bans, and didn't wish to be named, but apparently wanted me off Wikipedia. The other user shortly thereafter posted on ANI about the banned users Enkyo2 and JoshuSasori being my victims -- even though the former was a victim of the broader community, and the latter outed me and threatened me in real life -- but was especially concerned with the CurtisNaito dispute. Just bringing this up to explain the parenthetical statement above. I'm really here to discuss Henshall jiving with the other sources. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 07:00, 28 October 2015 (UTC) )

• What episode is that? I don't recognize it. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 09:32, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
  • Is from the seventh season. Weird ... I was still watching the show back then, but I totally don't remember it. I didn't have this nickname yet, though, so it wouldn't have jumped out at me. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 09:42, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

Worst instance of IDHT yet

[12]

You haven't found any misrepresentations? The delisting had nothing to do with sourcing?

I would laugh at CurtisNaito's wry sense of humour, if I didn't know he was trying to be serious.

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 09:27, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

I don't even want to criticize him for lying about me on ArbCom and calling the above an "attack", since I sincerely hope the Arbs see the above, check my diff, and tell Curtis off for his gross refusal to acknowledge any criticism of his edits and his repeated attempts to rewrite the reason for the article being delisted. Next he'll surely say the reason Iwane Matsui isn't an FA has nothing to do with sourcing! Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 10:17, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

Apologies

Hello, I'm the guy who's been trolling in relation to the Debito article. It got a little heated, and I behaved like an utter dick. I'm not excusing my behavior but it was purely borne out of frustration. My apologies for my behavior, I will not be trolling again.

Regards,

- former ip hopping troll. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.254.105.178 (talk) 04:55, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Hey - I made an account. Full disclosure, yes you were right that I was also "ChemicalG". No more trolling - this new account I will use, and consider it a fresh start. Again, my apologies for my behavior before. Yodenshi (talk) 08:18, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

Allegra Versace

If you want to, you can take a look at the article about Allegra Versace. That article is this weeks TAFI.--BabbaQ (talk) 22:16, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

I'll just unbury this ...

I'll just unbury this evidence that AlbinoFerret is going way out of their way to stir the pot.

Adding redlinks is not a blockable offense

Excuse me, but what on earth does this have to do with the ArbCom case? Additionally, I stated my reason for making the edit in my edit summary -- the edit I reverted had violated WP:V. Your making up your own motivation for me seems pretty weird. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 22:41, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

My talk page is not the place to discuss the case. But you might want to read WP:CIRCULAR. AlbinoFerret 00:37, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

It's not about the case. You seemed to misunderstand the content and reasoning of my edit, which itself had nothing to do with the case. But what does it have to do with CIRCULAR? My edit didn't cite Wikipedia, or a source that used Wikipedia. My source (the well-regarded Japanese encyclopedia MyPaedia) predates Wikipedia. CurtisNaito removed the source and added a source that didn't directly support the material, but left the material itself largely intact. This is a violation of WP:V, so I reverted. Circular sourcing has nothing to do with it, as far as I can tell? Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 07:36, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

MyPaedia is a commercial Japanese-language encyclopaedia produced by Hitachi commonly included on electronic dictionaries (which are very popular in Japan). I've got a copy on my old SII SR-ME7200. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 10:36, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Apparently it's end-of-life and now available online for free via Kotobank. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 10:42, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

TAFI

If you want to, take a look at the article about Marie Serneholt which is this weeks TAFI article. Regards.--BabbaQ (talk) 20:04, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Maus

Please provide explicit evidence and citations for controversial material, especially when dealing against common terminology. Regardless on your position of the existence of race, most people (the average, reasonable person) would see those groups as ethnic groups and not separate races. See WP:COMMONNAME, WP:NOTBLUE, and related articles.--Sığe |д=) 01:51, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

See WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS and take a pill. Also, I'd like to see a citation to that "most people" remark. ~~

WP:IRRELEVANT. The burden of proof is on you, the editor and apparent "owner" of the article, to prove the allegation of races and not ethnic groups. Please provide evidence in any contemporary source relevant to where Germans, Poles, and Jews are distinctly races. As a matter of fact, I'd consider it to have its own unfortunate implications, given the misconception the NSDAP considered Slavs to be separate from Caucasians (which is already proven untrue in their own records in the Caucasian article...).--Sığe |д=) 02:43, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

The burden of proof is on me when using the terms the cited sources use? Back to the basement with you! Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 02:59, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

Nice dodging the question--and personal threat on my talk page--which is just making you look bad. Give me one single reason why I should NOT report you for all your transgressions and being uncooperative? Are you so lazy you can't defend your own controversial claim? I don't see "races" in the sources. You think you're being PC, but if you ask me (someone with partial Jewish heritage) the burden of proof is on you. Please be cooperative with the Project. I have marked your unsourced and controversial term as such on the page. Have a lovely day!Sığe |д=) 15:09, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

So report it. We could use the laugh. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 17:40, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

If the term is so well-sourced and justified, it should be anything but a chore to specify and clarify the citation. Furthermore, look at terms such as Hakuna matata; in the Lion King, it is translated as "no worries", yet that is not the meaning in Swahili and only a very loose translation. That is clarified in the article. It's not RIGHTINGGREATWRONGS, it's WP:COMMONNAME and WP:NOTBLUE. Ergo, "ethnic groups" is superior to "race" in this context.--Sığe |д=) 22:58, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

Cute, but the onus remains on your shoulders. The article's been through multiple reviews and is viewed by a quarter million readers a year, and after twelve years you're the first to raise a stink—and I'm not even the one who added "race" to the article (here's the article before my first edit to it in 2011). You have yet to back up your "most people" (let alone your bizarre non sequitur about how fucking PC I am!), and you'll also have to deal with articles with titles like "Allegories of Race in Spiegelman's Maus", etc. Ergo, go take a pill. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 23:09, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

Your use of curse words is not only violating my own sensitivies, it's violating WP:CIVIL. If you cannot hold a peaceful debate on the Internet, perhaps this Project (and Internet usage in general) is not suited to your neurotype. Furthermore, I added an objective citation for "ethnic group" in the article lead. Ergo, you are wrong. P.S. Your fallacy of "multiple reviews and views" violates WP:NOTDONE. Ergo, you are being destructive to the rules and spirit of the Project and I highly suggest you take a break if you are experiencing any health-threatening issues. This is not out of snark malevolence but true concern and agape. I may need to contact an admin of your infestingly melancholic behavior if you continue in this way. Cheers.--Sığe |д=) 23:18, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

Please do, and then get lost. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 23:20, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

As long as you stop hyper-defending in the face of objectivity, OK. Cheers, m8.--Sığe |д=) 23:23, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

"Objectivity", right! That's why you ignore the evidence you demanded and bludgeoned the article with a grotesquely inappropriate use of a source. Quit embarrassing yourself. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 23:27, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

You have yet to cite specific evidence, I already have two trusted sources including an analytic novel and a university; I actually have two more academic sources pulled up citing "ethnic groups" specifically. Every time you revert, I will add another source. I am helping the Project, you are not. You are being defensive and acting like you own the article.--Sığe |д=) 23:30, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

Also, if it's OK with you --since apparently I have to ask my fief lord (you) to edit the holy Maus-- I'm going to cleanup that messy References section full of red error text and other errors. Instead of fighting against truth, you should at least try to make "your" article look pretty.--Sığe |д=) 23:42, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

I can't make heads or tails of that References section. It looks butchered compared to the 2011 version. Looking at the MoS there seems to be a lot of formatting errors. Did you do this?--Sığe |д=) 23:47, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

And with this you've proven you're here to troll. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 00:33, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

(talk page watcher) I looked over this dispute, read the article, and looked at the sources. Technically yes Germans, Poles, and Jews are separate ethnic groups, but back before the war Jews and sometimes Poles were thought to be a separate race (in the United States too). I would say "ethnic group" would be more appropriate in the lede, but there should be an ajoining note about this notion of separate "races". ミーラー強斗武 (StG88ぬ会話) 00:04, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

Whether "race" or "ethnic group" is better is something that should be fought elsewhere. The issues here are:

1. Sigehelmus is pushing a POV with an "everyone knows this" attitude, and is pretending that evidence contradicting him simply doesn't exist.
2. Citing to a cherrypicked source (or sources) that use his preferred term is an unacceptable abuse of sourcing. I've demonstrated how idiotic that game is with this edit (and which I'Ve immediately reverted). Sigehelmus's POV-pushing approach is totally unacceptable—not that it matters, as he's really only trolling. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 00:38, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

He appears to be fucking around with other articles, too, requiring an admin to undo the damage. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 00:49, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

You are misusing the definition of "trolling". Trolling is defined as follows " Digital Technology. Informal. To post inflammatory or inappropriate messages or comments on (the Internet, especially a message board) for the purpose of upsetting other users and provoking a response. To upset or provoke (other users) by posting such messages or comments." Please provide objective evidence to support this claim. The case of Helmet Schmidt was that it was a ridiculous overspacing format error in the lead, this is irrelevant. My objection is the personal attacks Curly Turkey has made against me and his playing of ownership of the Maus article he has brought to "Featured" status (which he has violated several rules of in his despotic defense). I have added a third source in defense of "ethnic groups" over "race". I have no less than three tabs more of sources at hand at this moment and I will add them if need be.--Sığe |д=) 02:05, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

EDIT: Oh, I see now. You provided one (1) cherrypicked source. I have more of equal merit.--Sığe |д=) 02:12, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

Jesus Christ, but you're just not getting it, are you? The number of sources will never matter because you are abusing the whole concept of sourcing. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 02:29, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

Your dirty mouth is violating WP:CIVIL (you seem to have a history of blasphemy). You are acting overaggressive and violating many rules in this way. I will not converse with you if you continue to be so vulgar. I have already reported you twice. I am not abusing sourcing; you've pretty much violated almost every Wiki policy that exists. If you're middle aged, why do you curse like a teenager? Do you not know many Wikipedians are hurt and offended by this uncivil talk?--Sığe |д=) 02:35, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

@Sigehelmus: As I pointed out on my talk page, those sources aren't adequate; they refer to the difference as "ethnic groups" but they don't state why this term is preffered over "races" or provide an argument for such. Also, you don't typically put references in the lede unless it's a really short article. You should remove them from the lede, and another user proposed using both terms.

@Curly Turkey: This guy isn't trolling and he's apparently sensitive; mind toning it down just a little? But yes I see that he's not using sources correctly. Would you agree to using "ethnic groups or races" or vice versa? ミーラー強斗武 (StG88ぬ会話) 08:59, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

It's easier to "tone it down" when you're not being bombarded with accusations and demands from someone with firm ideas about race and ethnicity. I'd prefer something less awkward than "ethnic groups or races", if anyone knows a suitable term. I'd like to see that lead unbutchered before considering anything. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 09:41, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

November 2015

Hello, I'm Sigehelmus. Although everyone is welcome to contribute to Wikipedia, it's important to be mindful of the feelings of your fellow editors, who may be frustrated by certain types of interaction. While you probably didn't intend any offense, please do remember that Wikipedia strives to be an inclusive atmosphere. In light of that, it would be greatly appreciated if you could moderate yourself so as not to offend. "Asking for a block?" is a threat. Sığe |д=) 15:14, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

Reference errors on 11 November

Hello, I'm ReferenceBot. I have automatically detected that an edit performed by you may have introduced errors in referencing. It is as follows:

• On the Kusumoto Ine page, your edit caused an unsupported parameter error (help). (Fix | Ask for help)

Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can report it to my operator. Thanks, ReferenceBot (talk) 00:25, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

J-dates

Should remember this. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 02:02, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

I think we may have misjudged AlbinoFerret...

...insofar as when he attacked me for this edit he may not have been referring to MyPaedia as a CIRCULAR reference, but rather to the inline interwiki link. I don't like inline interwiki links in general (they are sometimes appropriate, though).

The problem is that for him to assume I am the one who added the link when his diff didn't indicate such is an assumption of bad faith, and for him to claim that insertion of a wikilink is the same as citing Wikipedia is either a deliberate misrepresentation or an accidental and highly incompetent one.

And either way we would have needed to be mind-readers to have immediately understood such a mistake and corrected him accordingly, so our initial assumption that he thought MyPaedia was a Wikipedia mirror was probably justified.

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 09:10, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

• Are you talking about the {{illm}}? Couldn't be: you didn't add it in that edit, and it's not being used as a source. Oh, if you don't like interwiki links, you'll probably drop dead at the sight of Kusumoto Ine. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 09:58, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

I know. That's why I said if it was accidental then we have a case of gross incompetence, and if it was deliberate then ... well, that would be "assuming" bad faith. Anyway, the Kusumoto Ine article does seem rather excessive. I don't dislike inline interwiki links per se, but I think the whole concept just seems so pessimistic. It only takes about 30 minutes to throw together a passable stub article on a topic that can be expanded later, so redlinking and adding the Japanese text inline seems like a much more proactive way of dealing with such cases than what effectively amounts to saying "Oh, we don't have an article on that topic on English Wikipedia yet, and we probably never will -- but why not check out Japanese Wikipedia?". ;-) Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 12:03, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

No, if he were talking about anything other than MyPaedia, he would have said so after you brought it up to him by name ... and then I brought it up to him ... and then I brought it up again at the Arb case. There's no wiggle room: it's about the MyPaedia link. If he had made an honest (an easy-to-make) mistake, he's had ample opportunity to fess up. Rather, he has dug in and continued to repeat it at the Arb case. You really can't call that anything but lying at this point.

Yes, it takes a mere 30 minutes or less to whip up a stub, but when you're furiously expanding an article, that means 30 minutes away from that article you're expanding. The illm (a) gives readers something rather than nothing, and (b) makes it easy to find those articles that deserve to be created when through with the first article. I did this with ukiyo-e and John Wilson Bengough, where I added piles of interwiki links, and then after I was through I went through the redlinks one by one. I think ukiyo-e's down to two or three redlinks now. Those are articles I likely wouldn't have created otherwise. They're great motivators—they're so ugly that they really drive you to squish 'em all. Unfortunately I don't have as much editing time as I'd like these days—I do most of my editing now during downtime between tasks, and building content requires a lot of overhead (finding, reading through, and digesting sources) that as often as not eats up my windows of opportunity before I can do significant expansion. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 12:58, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

No, if he were talking about anything other than MyPaedia, he would have said so after you brought it up to him by name ... and then I brought it up to him ... and then I brought it up again at the Arb case. No, you see that assumes he actually read our comments. And that would assume he was deliberately misrepresenting the facts even though he knew better. That would be an AGF violation. We should be assuming he was just too busy in real life to read our comments before responding to them, it would seem. ;-) Also, notice how he kept bringing up the "citing of a redlink" every time? It makes more sense to assume he was just ignoring us than to assume the redlink referred to my redlink to the hypothetical future article MyPaedia.

Regarding not having time to create content: I completely sympathize. Hopefully someday soon we will both be freer to work on building the encyclopedia than we have been of late...

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 13:53, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

I realize you're being sarcastic, but all comes back to the same point: no matter what angle you look at it (lying, or ignoring comments), he's acted in bad faith. And yes, all this horseshit is eating into my windows of opportunity as well (although I did manage to find time last week to quintuple or more the length of the Kusumoto Ine article. Unfortunately I seem to have exhausted my online sources and will have to get some physical ones to fill in the remaining gaps). Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 14:15, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

(talk page watcher) Curly Turkey, are you trying to do that Asian month thing? Just out of curiosity. ミーラー強斗武 (StG88ぬ会話) 05:42, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

Isn't that thing for Asian-language wikis? I've made minor contributions to ja.wp before, but (a) I don't have confidence enough in my formal j-writing skills to really tackle anything, and (b) I haven't even had much time recently to contribute content to en.wp. Why, are you doing something? Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 08:14, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

No it's for all Wikipedias. Since last week I've been trying to start a few Ryukyuan castle articles for it, got three so far. Just go to WP:Wikipedia Asian Month and see if you want to do anything for it. ミーラー強斗武 (StG88ぬ会話) 17:19, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

Hmmm ... the work I did on Kusaka Genzui yesterday almost qualifies already, and I've been meaning to get some RSes from the library to create Seikenji for a while now. Maybe I'll give it shot. Too bad it wasn't next month instead—I've got a bunch of half-days at work then. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 22:59, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

I misunderstood the math—it looks like Genzui already qualifies. I might do a bunch of Kanō painters—I took out a couple of books a month or two ago to do just that, but I didn't find the time before it was time to bring back the books. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 00:30, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

Yeah definitely go for it! Anything is better than nothing :) ミーラー強斗武 (StG88ぬ会話) 02:17, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

Well, I just created Kanō Michinobu and I'd forgotten I'd just created Harada Naojirō last week, so I guess I'm already at three down. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 06:05, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

Until reading the above exchange this evening I completely forgot about this. Or rather, I forgot how easy it would be to qualify. I guess I'll join in too. I've got a whole bunch of articles that need making and/or expanding. I would get working on Princess Nukata but that article doesn't appear to contain many disastrous errors, so it's just not as fun. ;-) Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 13:22, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

Mie Castle? In the Ryūkyūs? Not that's not in the least confusing, is it? Even if I'd known form the start that WAM inculded en.wp, I was going to ignore it until prodded. I'm a bit マイペース, and am not great at heeding deadlines when there's not a paycheck involved. Probably won't take me more than two hours to finish off the quota, but I don't think I'll have the time today (though I'll probably try). Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 00:31, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Well the Okinawan name is Mii Gushiku if that's any consolation, but unfortunately English uses the Japanese reading. There's also a city called Ishikawa (as opposed to the one in mainland). Haha and I understand being マイペース, but still glad that you and Hijiri wanna pitch in *\(^o^)/* ミーラー強斗武 (StG88ぬ会話) 02:22, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

Well, unless I've mis-mathed it, I've already reached my quota. I'll probably still create another couple of Kanō articles while I've got the books out of the library. We keep talking about taking my father-in-law out for a trip to Okinawa—I still haven't been. Actually, I haven't been farther that way than Kyoto. I was going to visit Hiroshima with my mother and a friend of hers, but the trip was planned for March 2011, and ...

Hijiri better get his quota in quick. There's a proposal now to ban him indefintely "from all pages relating to Japanese culture", and it already has one support. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 02:32, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

Ah good! Tomorrow I'm gonna make articles for a few Okinawan theme parks since they apparently don't have articles yet. I'm sure you'll enjoy visiting Okinawa if you ever have the time~ And yeah, I don't think either of them should get such a broad topic ban, but I guess it's out of our hands. ミーラー強斗武 (StG88ぬ会話) 03:13, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

Talk:History of Japan is still going in circles after almost three months...

You and I both know the reason for this (as I'm sure do Sturmgewehr88, Signedzzz, Nishidani...), but the question arises as to how to deal with it. I still want the article to become a GA, but that can't come to pass as long as every small step made to improve it is met with obscure criticisms, dodging if questions and bizarre personal comments, and otherwise requires tens of thousands of bytes of talk page non-discussion. I still think it's highly unlikely ArbCom will weigh in, but even if they did the only thing that's even been proposed is a one-month block with no long-term implications. A page ban, topic ban or site ban would solve the problem, but even after ArbCom closes it doesn't look like either you or I will be in a position to start an ANI discussion for a while... any ideas? Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 04:38, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

• I don't have any faith in ANI—that place is a dungeon where the regulars wait in ambush to rape the orifices of those stupid enough to waltz in, not a forum for conflict resolution. If I had the time to devote to it, I'd simply like to work out the "Social issues" (or whatever) section and drop it in to the article—I don't think CurtisNaito would oppose it, at least not the way I have it envisioned (he hasn't opposed any of my other additions, and I think the merits of the section will be clear enough when they're worked out). I'd like to just cut off the discussion, but I'm afraid he'll choose to interpet that as meaning the article's done and then renominate it. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 05:32, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

Well, yeah: if he opposed our additions he would be forced to fight a losing battle against their inclusion, and he wouldn't be able to insist on taking sole credit for them later. ;-) Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 10:13, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

Does it bother you that he keeps interpreting our comments like requests for him (or requests for his permission) to make specific edits rather than attempts to open discussion? Because it bothers me... Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 08:18, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

It does. I've brought up more than once that he's a minority contributor. I only showed up to copyedit, and my own contributions are up to several paragraphs now. We should all be demanding credit, as well as credit for Oda Mari (whatever's happened to her). Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 08:58, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Possibly unfree File:Screenshot - Shunga Dynasty results.png

A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Screenshot - Shunga Dynasty results.png, has been listed at Wikipedia:Possibly unfree files because its copyright status is unclear or disputed. If the file's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. You may find more information on the file description page. You are welcome to add comments to its entry at the discussion if you object to the listing for any reason. Thank you. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 10:53, 16 November 2015 (UTC)

メシ喰うな!

I wonder if I can find enough sources for Meshi Kuuna!

• 町田康率いる「INU」を生んだ時代背景を考察

Wikipedia:Today's featured article/December 6, 2015

Hi Curly, I'll get to this one tonight. - Dank (push to talk) 01:39, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

Another one? You don't think people are going to get sick of graphic novels? Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 03:00, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

I wish we had more success luring GA writers to try for FA to give us more variety, but I don't think another graphic novel is too much. Your writing keeps it interesting. But it's not my call; pinging Chris. - Dank (push to talk) 03:30, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

• Last I checked, the last graphic novel article was in August. That's a fair while ago. Hopefully A Contract with God doesn't draw the ... post-modernist post-modernism of Maus. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 09:35, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

Precious again, your Contract with God, an early English-level attempt to raise the maturity and art levels of the content of the graphic novel!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:02, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

Oba Chandler

If you find time for it, please take a look at the article about Oba Chandler. It is a article that I have edited a lot over the years. So any improvements etc are welcomed. Regards,--BabbaQ (talk) 09:29, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!

Hi,
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:39, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Edit warring at Talk:History of Japan

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Article. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Please be particularly aware that Wikipedia's policy on edit warring states:

1. Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made.
2. Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing.CurtisNaito (talk) 01:53, 24 November 2015 (UTC) I don't think there's any reason for ill will here. I'm sincerely interested in working together with all users to improve the article. I promise you that I will respond to all concerns and will implement from now on any proposals that need to be implemented. I'm certain that we can bring the article to good level status by working together. If there's anything you think I can do, I will certainly do it or else allow other users to do it if others users would prefer to make the edits.CurtisNaito (talk) 01:53, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

Translations

Hello,

I hadn't visited comics related articles on the English Wikipedia for a long time. I had a very good surprise today in reading some of them, especially comics itself: while of course there are some stuff I don't agree with, or would have hierarchized differently, it's infinitely better than most articles on the French Wikipedia—I want to let you know your work will be thoroughly used to better it. Thank you! Encolpe (talk) 02:30, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

• Well, wasn't that pleasant! Thank you! Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 02:33, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

Interesting retraction

[13] Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 02:17, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

*smirk* Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 02:56, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

"threats"

Books and Bytes - Issue 14

The Wikipedia Library

Books & Bytes
Issue 14, October-November 2015
by The Interior (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs), Sadads (talk · contribs), Nikkimaria (talk · contribs)

• New donations - Gale, Brill, plus Finnish and Farsi resources
• Open Access Week recap, and DOIs, Wikipedia, and scholarly citations
• Spotlight: 1Lib1Ref - a citation drive for librarians

Read the full newsletter

The Interior, via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 19:12, 10 December 2015 (UTC)

I sent you mail

Hello, Curly Turkey. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 23:03, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

• It better not be trying to get me back into the conversation. CurtisNaito is destroying both my productivity and my sanity. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 23:26, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Oh my god, I just saw the most awesome video clip that's totally appropriate to the situation! Do the first two minutes of this remind you of anything? (Fair warning, the clip contains spoken allusions to mature content.) Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 13:40, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

Ha! But what is he distracting us from? Does he have some of of political agenda for fighting to the death over his claim that Murakami Haruki is representative of Shōwa-period science fiction? His motives are opaque. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 22:59, 16 December 2015 (UTC)

"Why remove this?"

Hello. I just found your revision of my revision on the Chester Brown article. I removed that bit of information because it is already stated in another paragraph further down the page. I'd have created a link from the first paragraph to the second, and thus obliged readers who wanted more information on Brown's involvement in the LPC, if I knew how to insert a link to another part of the same page, but I don't. Can you tell me how? Mgushulak (talk) 03:52, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

• Ah, I get it now, and it actually does work a lot better that way. I've re-removed it. I wonder if there's a source somewhere that tells why he didn't run in the last election ... Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 04:21, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

"ununseptium is likely to neither commonly form anions nor achieve high oxidation states"

It makes me unreasonably happy to see such a thoroughly split infinitive in the lead of a TFA. I wonder if it'll survie its day in the sun. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 04:39, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

• Didn't take long. Just fuck but the "split infinitive" myth needs to die, die, die! Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 06:14, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Asian Month Barnstar
	Thanks for your great contribution in Wikipedia Asian Month 2015! --AddisWang (talk) 14:31, 17 December 2015 (UTC)

Iwane Matsui, an article that you or your project may be interested in, has been nominated for a community good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article.

Would you believe

ArbCom is considering making the statement of fact that I engaged in inappropriate canvassing in my dispute with CurtisNaito, when CurtisNaito routinely[14][15] calls on all possible members of the minority who have supported him in the past whenever he feels the community at large won't support him unless he can force through a SNOW in his favour first? 'Tis a crazy world we are living in... Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 18:27, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

Talk:History of Japan

Hi Curly. Thanks for your messages on the talk page; parsing through all this has not been easy. I'm dropping this message here to let you know that while your frustration with Curtis's behavior is warranted, your behavior, like framing Curtis's contributions as poisonous ([16], [17]) and basically not taking anything he has to say seriously just doesn't sit well with me. Curtis's edits to the article have sometimes been problematic as has his approach to discussion around improvements. But it is disruptive to spend all this energy casting aspersions about Curtis' intentions. This remark about how he is messing with everyone's heads struck me as particularly unnecessary. There was also nothing wrong or disruptive with Curtis attempting to develop an RfC for the article. Yes, it needs to be framed appropriately, but all I saw from you was an attempt to shut that conversation completely down. You wonder why folks don't want to edit this article? It's not just Curtis's behavior that drives folks away from it. I know you and others are trying to look out for the article and it's been a real struggle, but this kind of engagement only fuels the fire. I, JethroBT ^{drop me a line} 01:24, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

parsing through all this has not been easy—I know, the endlessly repeating walls of words are an enormous part of the problem. For weeks after showing up I assumed Hijiri, Nishidani, Signedzz, et al. were at least as much to blame for the atmosphere as CurtisNaito, who I assumed was just a sloppy researcher. The closer one examines the problem the more one realizes things will not improve through discussion. CurtisNaito cannot be talked with—he resorts even to flat-out lying, which has been demonstrated—nor can he be left to his devices. I'd rather contribute content (check out my to-do list), but instead I'll be wasting my time in the new year putting the diffs together for a case. I wonder how many CurtisNaitos there are all over Wikipedia leeching time like this from productive content contributors ... Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 07:10, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

This remark about how he is messing with everyone's heads struck me as particularly unnecessary.—I understand it appears that way from the outside. CurtisNaito has a knack for wording irrational deflective non sequiturs in seemingly reasonable and congenial tone. This is an enormous part of the problem—for the longest time he had me half-convinced. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 07:24, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!

A very happy Christmas and New Year to you!
May 2016 bring you joy, happiness – and no trolls or vandals! All the best Gavin / – SchroCat (talk) 23:45, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

• And a Merry Christmas to you! Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 01:00, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

"Post-occupation" literature

Hey, in case you haven't noticed, TH1980 has been adding the exact same material to another article, with pretty much the same problems. After he claimed he was leaving the History of Japan page because of the "hostile environment" created by everyone but him and CN. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 03:37, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

• I did notice. I don't know why I didn't do anything. I guess I'm worn out. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 04:38, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

  Actually, I remember why: I thought the article itself was redundant to both the Shōwa and Heisei articles and should be deleted, so I didn't see the point in fighting over an article that likely will disappear one of these days. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 04:47, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

KENVAS

I thanked CurtisNaito for this edit; it's not often that he grants such a rich boon to the upcoming ANI case against him and TH1980. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 06:14, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

• Oh, God ... I strongly suspect that the article needs to be delisted given the problems that came up at the FAC and given Curtis's complete sourcing incompetence, but I don't have the energy to engage him on another front. I want to give up on History of Japan, but seriously, an article that important can't be left to Curtis Naito. With Matsui I don't feel it's so urgent. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 12:27, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

If an ANI case is going to be made, it needs to happen after ArbCom, otherwise AF and the Warlord of Mars will sink it. Also, if you're collecting diffs you can look on the Hijiri vs Catflap evidence page for some. ミーラー強斗武 (StG88ぬ会話) 00:53, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

Well, Hijiri seems to have implied that I've started already, but I won't even start for a couple of weeks yet. I'll be too busy, and not just with holiday stuff. If you've got some juicy diffs prepared, let me know and I can work them in, but don't expect results too soon. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 03:30, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

Best wishes for the holidays...

		Season's Greetings
		Wishing you a Happy Holiday Season, and all best wishes for the New Year! Hafspajen (talk) 11:53, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Best wishes for the holidays...

		Season's Greetings
		Wishing you and yours a Happy Holiday Season, and all best wishes for the New Year! Adoration of the Shepherds (Poussin) is my Wiki-Christmas card to all for this year. Johnbod (talk) 10:26, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Happy Christmas!

		Happy Christmas!
		Have a happy holiday season. May the year ahead be productive and happy. John (talk) 17:48, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

Happy Holidays

	Season's greetings!
	I hope this holiday season is festive and fulfilling and filled with love and kindness, and that 2016 will be successful and rewarding...Modernist (talk) 00:05, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

Best wishes for the holidays...

		Season's Greetings
		Wishing you a happy New Year! Hafspajen (talk) 21:31, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

Happy New Year, Curly Turkey!

Happy New Year!

Curly Turkey,
Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable New Year, and thanks both for your contributions to Wikipedia and also for being a valued friend and colleague. Very best wishes to you! --Tenebrae (talk) 20:00, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks}} to user talk pages.

a question unrelated to "winningest"

I thought I would ask you, as I saw you had your JLPT1 and I can't even read hira/kata. Although some Japanese names seem unisex, do the male and female forms of the same name, share the same kanji? Is it possible to distinguish gender from the Kanji, or through any other cute little nuances? Spacecowboy420 (talk) 12:57, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

• I'd say you can generally tell from the kanji whether they're male or female, but not with 100% confidence. I know I've seen names have the same kanji for both male and female, but examples aren't coming to mind at the moment. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 13:09, 15 January 2016 (UTC)
  • Here's an example: Akira Amano (female) and Akira Isogawa (male) with the kanji 「明」 for "Akira". If the kanji were, say, 「章」, though, I'd be surprised if the person were female (though a ton of female names otherwise use that character). Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 13:13, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

I was looking at Unisex_name#Japanese and wondering if it needed any further detail, in regards to distinguishing between male and female names. Thanks Spacecowboy420 (talk) 13:26, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Here's a site that lists a huge number of names. It marks them as male and female—it marks none of them as unisex, but sometimes you'll see the same kanji twice in a row, once as male and once as female. There are quite a few unisex ones, but they still tend to be one or the other. But I guess the answer to your question is yes, you can usually differentiate based on the kanji, and that information would be good for the article, but it would be best to get a source saying so first. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 13:28, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia Asian Month

Hi, thank you for participation in Wikipedia Asian Month. Please fill out the survey that we use to collect the mailing address. All personal information will be only used for postcard sending and will be deleted immediately after the postcard is sent. If you have any question, you may contact me at Meta. Hope to see you in 2016 edition of Wikipedia Asian Month.--AddisWang (talk) 14:43, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Hi

If you want to, please take a look at the article about Carina Jaarnek that I have created. Any help is appreciated.--BabbaQ (talk) 14:55, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Adding images

Hey Turkey, I wanted to ask you something. I assume this revert has a point, but my idea was to add an image in order to break the monotony of reading just walls of text. Is it usual to incorporate image (under free use) from a concert and write a description not strictly related to the image?--Retrohead (talk) 22:22, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

The issue is the caption—it implies that the image was taken "at Mercyful Fate's practice room in Copenhagen". That's information that should be in the body, and should be in a caption only if the caption relates to the image—so, at the very least, the caption has to be changed. The image itself is less than ideal, of course, as it's from 2009, but is placed during the recording sessions in 1984. I understand not wanting to have a wall of text there, but I wouldn't fight too hard to keep that image. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 23:00, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

Actually ...

Adding to your thought, the whole winningest issue might best be left as is, WP:NOCONSENSUS. It's just WP:WABBITSEASON at this point.—Bagumba (talk) 00:31, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

• It would be nice, but Reyk is actively doctoring the evidence, making claims there's already been a consensus against the word. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 04:59, 23 January 2016 (UTC)