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April 10

Cheating in sumo

A couple of months ago I was watching Freakonomics and it mentioned cheating in sumo. Our article on sumo mentions yaocho, which appears to be related to fixing matches; however, Freakonomics mentioned a different sort of cheating that wasn't based on a predetermined outcome of the match. A wrestler who wouldn't be hurt by a loss would allow a wrestler who would benefit from a win to beat him. Does anyone know the term for this and if this is a concept seen only in sumo, or if it is seen in other areas of Japanese culture as well? Ryan Vesey 02:20, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

It happens all the time in sports. Teams that have locked up a playoff berth regularly rest their key players, especially if they can't move up or down the seedings. Clarityfiend (talk) 03:20, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

I think it's called "taking a dive". Match_fixing#Japan seems to have more details on the Japanese culture aspect of this type of fixing.--Lenticel ^(talk) 03:21, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Taking a dive isn't exactly the same thing. It happens in boxing, where a loss does hurt the diver, but he or she receives a $ecret benefit. Wikipedia:WHAAOE: Resting the starters. Clarityfiend (talk) 03:24, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Not doing your best to win might be unsporting, but if it is done simply to give your own team an advantage in the next match rather than to intentionally let the other team win then it isn't match fixing. --Tango (talk) 11:42, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

I believe Japanese baseball, at one time, was dominated by this type of mentality. For example, it was considered honorable to let the home team win. However, calling it "cheating" seems a bit off. For comparison, in the WWE, those wrestlers might agree who will win in advance, but is that really cheating ? Everyone knows it's fake, so it's more like a performance than an actual competition. Calling that "cheating" is a bit like calling it cheating when Rocky wins his bouts in the movies, by following the script. Or, to compare it with another type of cheating, are a couple in an open marriage both guilty of cheating ? I don't think so, as cheating requires deception. StuRat (talk) 04:05, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

In this case, it's a question of ranking and the privilege of competing at the top level in the next tournament. Yes, it is cheating, keeping wrestlers who would likely be relegated if the final matches were honest at the top rank.--Wehwalt (talk) 12:28, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Well, an actor playing a character destined to die off in the first act might also wish he could play a part that emerges victorious, does that make it "cheating" that he's not allowed to ? StuRat (talk) 15:11, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

See Priority draft pick#Tanking. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 12:49, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

also sandbagging Gzuckier (talk) 15:43, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

also

On July 4, 1984, Petty won his 200th (and what would turn to be his final victory) race at the Firecracker 400 at Daytona International Speedway. The race was memorable: On lap 158, Doug Heveron crashed, bringing out the yellow caution flag, essentially turning lap 158 into the last lap as the two drivers battled back to the start-finish line. Petty and Cale Yarborough diced it out on that lap, with Yarborough drafting and taking an early lead before Petty managed to cross the start/finish line only a fender-length ahead. ... President Ronald Reagan was in attendance, the first sitting president to attend a NASCAR race. Reagan celebrated the milestone with Petty and his family in victory lane. Richard_Petty#The_Twilight_Years

Let's see: July 4, Ronald Reagan in the stands, the most beloved NASCAR driver in the twilight of his career, miraculously manages to just batrely beat a faster car to the line, his 200th win... (I'm not complaining, it was fun to watch) Gzuckier (talk) 15:56, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

The American Health Care System

Firstly, I understand I must ask a question, so here, goes - why does America punish its own economy by making it so ridiculously expensive and prohibitive for non-US tourists to go there?

My wife and I are British and have travelled across the world (including America on several occasions) and have had a fantastic experience of meeting other cultures, religions, races, languages etc., etc., since we retired from professional positions in UK Government and Local Government. We are now 66 and 63 respectively and have admitted to many Health Insurance Companies that we have been diagnosed with Osteo and Rheumatoid Arthritis coupled with mild Asthma (my wife - all controlled by medication and frequent medical consultations); whilst I have been medically managed for 25 years for raised Blood Pressure and raised Cholesterol levels (nothing terminal indicated).

We have recently travelled to, New Jersey, San Diego, San Francisco, Las Vegas, Cuba, Alaska, Canada and New York. We are frequent travellers to Spain, Italy, Greece, France and clearly, London, Edinburgh and the rest of the UK. We have visited Belgium, The Netherlands, Germany, Austria, and Greece, not forgetting Nice in France - and Monte Carlo. Boasting???? NO !!!

Today, I have cancelled a very expensive cruise from Miami in Florida to Los Angeles via a transit through the Panama Canal which was to cost about £10,000 or say $13,000 USD. Why? Because the Insurance Companies I checked with (5 in all) quoted me in the region of $1300 USD for Travel Health Insurance.

A European 2 week holiday quotation was for £69 - say $80 USD. And what infuriates me is that I have many US friends who frequently visit myself and my wife in Scotland who NEVER carry Health Insurance on the basis that in the UK, they can rely on FREE health care at the point of delivery, which I pay through my taxes.

Guess what?? I have cancelled my holiday with the American Cruise Line AND i HAVE DECIDED INSTEAD never to visit America again. Thankyou Mr. Obama for saving me over $13,000 that I shall instead invest in European Based Holidays. 77.99.122.161 (talk) 13:31, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Did you have a question? AlexTiefling (talk) 13:44, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

The question is in the first line. I'm not sure about the premise, or if Obama has really had any effect on the price a European pays a European agency for health insurance while traveling in the US. But conceivably a charitable contributor could track down some statistics on healthcare prices and tourism that would help the OP. SemanticMantis (talk) 14:47, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

An approximately 10% surcharge for health insurance on those with health problems doesn't, on the face, seem unreasonable to me. Presumably, if you were both healthy, the cost would be far less. Also note that, in your system, you are still paying that cost, it's just buried in everyone's (higher) taxes, so it's less apparent. I'm not a fan of the US health care system, but this doesn't seem like the worst problem it creates. I think your objection stems from the fact that "that's not how it's done here". You will find, the farther you travel from home, the more different the cultures will be, including things like health care. So, your objection could be characterized as xenophobia. StuRat (talk) 15:07, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

who's resonsible for health insurance on a cruise? I know Canadians in the US are covered for accidental health insurance on the Canadian plan for like two weeks at no extra charge, but that involves actually getting coverage in a US hospital; if you get appendicitis or something on a cruise in the middle of the Panama Canal, I wonder where you would be treated and who would pay/be paid? That would affect the rates for the coverage for that period of time. Recent (and less recent) news certainly doesn't reassure people regarding not having health problems on cruise vessels. But i think the OP's point in the form of a question still stands: visitors from foreign countries to the US really need to ensure that they are adequately covered for medical costs for the duration of their visit or they could be very unpleasantly surprised, and it definitely does have a negative effect on tourism from other countries (for instance, my aforementioned Canadians who need to time every visit around their two week coverage, and any otherwise attractive events falling outside that window are written off) Gzuckier (talk) 16:06, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Economically, you are arguing for subsidized health care for tourists. From a national perspective, that is simply a subsidy for the tourism industry. The United States has chosen not to extend that subsidy, while some other countries have made a different decision. Of course, it is easier to provide tourists with subsidized health care in a single-payer system, but that is not the only consideration. Obamacare is really a relatively minor change to American health care and does not affect tourist health care expenses in any meaningful way, so you are wrong to blame President Obama.

You may also be wrong in directing your ire at the American health care system. It sounds like your travel would have been almost entirely in international waters. While the cruise line itself may be American, the cruise ship itself would almost certainly have flown the flag of some other nation, and the health care provided on board would not have been subject to U.S. law. John M Baker (talk) 16:07, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

(I'm a Brit - living in Texas - just so you understand my perspective) Your health insurance cost is actually rather reasonable by US standards. I pay something close to $600 per month to insure my ex-wife with the Aetna HMO through my companies' healthcare plan - and that's without pre-existing conditions - and she has to pay a "co-pay" for every treatment and there are limits on the annual amount that she's covered for. Optical and dental coverage isn't covered. There are two of you - so at $1300 (which probably includes dental coverage) it looks like you're getting regular US corporate health insurance rates...despite the likelyhood that if you were taken ill, that you'd need a helicopter ride from the cruise ship and possibly costly emergency repatriation to the UK - and you probably have emergency dental coverage. It probably has nothing to do with the health issues you have - that's just what normal, healthy Americans have to bear if they want medical care when they need it. With your pre-conditions, health insurance here would be unaffordable to all but those rich enough to not need insurance in the first place. So, believe it or not, you're getting a good deal!

So this question has nothing to do with tourism. It boils down to the much more general one of "Why is health insurance so expensive for *EVERYONE* in the USA?" - and there are lots of reasons for that. One big one is the litigation-happy US populace...doctors have to spend an absolute fortune on their insurance that pays their legal costs in the event that they get sued...another is the tight restrictions on where medication can be purchased...a third is that the standards of healthcare are actually significantly better than the NHS back in the UK. (Remember - I'm British - I've seen both systems in action!) Here in Texas, I don't ever wait in line at the doctor's office - hospital rooms are very pleasant places to be with good food - if I need any kind of major work done, it gets done immediately - with no waiting lists. That quality of service comes at a steep price - and Americans pay through the nose for it.

Don't get me wrong - I strongly believe that free, universal, basic healthcare, (albeit at a lower quality level than we currently have at $600/month) is something that all civilized countries should have. It's appalling that the US doesn't have this yet. But it's a serious mistake to blame President Obama - he's tried harder than any recent president to reform the US health care system - and has actually managed to enact some serious changes that are now gradually rolling in (not everyone would describe them as "improvements" - but I certainly would). The people you have to blame are his opposition in the Republican party who are (essentially) against free universal healthcare of the kind we have in the UK.

SteveBaker (talk) 16:11, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

We don't do rants inviting debate--although the xenophobia link was a helpful reference. μηδείς (talk) 17:08, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

In response to Gzuckier: I'd really like to see a citation for your comment "I know Canadians in the US are covered for accidental health insurance on the Canadian plan for like two weeks at no extra charge, but that involves actually getting coverage in a US hospital". To the best of my knowledge it is wrong, and may be dangerously so, at least in the case of the province of Ontario. (Health care is a provincial matter in Canada; there is no such thing as a "Canadian plan".) You are covered for any length of time but, and this is the critical bit, only for costs as specified on the Canadian schedules, which are sometimes "house losing" amounts less than equivalent American costs. I would never go to the US without travel insurance. Bielle (talk) 17:19, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

When British people get holiday travel insurance in Europe, the cost is partly determined by the fact that there are already subsidies for EU people in the system. If you were to travel without any extra health insurance you would pay whatever a local resident pays (with basic social security coverage). These are not primarily subsidies for tourists but for EU residents, who are allowed to move between countries of the EU with minimum restriction. The aim of the mutual health care arrangements of the EU is to permit free movement of labour, not to promote tourism. Itsmejudith (talk) 16:53, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

The system also covers a few European countries outside the EU such as Norway and Switzerland, with whom we have reciprocal agreements. See EHIC - European Health Insurance Card. Alansplodge (talk) 18:51, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Past info on PTSD

I was just going through some articles on line about PTSD and really couldn't find any thing about Viet Nam Vets. You see I was in the Navy for 21 years and had two tours in Viet Nam. And it just came to me that there is no,or at least none that I can find, relating to Viet Nam Vets with PTSD.

I don't know if it is History or what, but it seems to me with all of the men that went to Viet Nam had little or no reports what so ever of PTSD. And now since the Golf Wars have been going on we have had so many cases of PTSD I have to wonder as to what kind of people we have going over there as to weather these men and women are really fit to support our country in time of war.

If you can find any sites that may have any information on this, please let me know. Thank You — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ozzie5562 (talk • contribs) 15:50, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm surprised that you couldn't find any information online -- there is a lot available. PTSD is considered to have been very common in Vietnam vets -- in fact the term posttraumatic stress disorder was coined in the 1970s with them specifically in mind. See this page and many others you can find by Googling for "Vietnam PTSD" for more information. Looie496 (talk) 16:00, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

(ec) Have you looked at Posttraumatic_stress_disorder, especially the section Modern recognition in military settings? The term PTSD was only coined in the mid-seventies, mainly because of Vietnam vets. Before that it was called shell shock, or "battle fatigue" or the like. Rojomoke (talk) 16:04, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

of course in those days there were widely accepted cures which are less widely accepted as therapeutically effective these days Gzuckier (talk) 16:08, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

The biggest problem is that the term "PTSD" is relatively new - it used to be called by various other names - "Shell shock" being very common. "Battle fatigue" or "Combat fatigue" being another term, "Combat Stress Reaction" is another...maybe even "Gulf War syndrome". It seems like every war has its' own set of words to describe a range of different conditions that we now sweep together into "PTSD". It's pretty clear that these conditions has been around since we've fought wars - I don't think it's anything new, it's just that we pay more attention to it these days. I've met many Vietnam vets who clearly exhibit severe PTSD symptoms - you're very wrong to say that they were somehow "stronger" than modern soldiers - that's a really obnoxious position to take. SteveBaker (talk) 16:24, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

"going troppo" in the Pacific in WWII. Rmhermen (talk) 17:01, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Yeah - exactly. I hadn't heard of that one before - but there were lots of phrases used in different theaters and different eras that described what we now call "PTSD". I'm sure there will be new words to describe the condition in future wars. SteveBaker (talk) 16:14, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

One complicating factor is that it's often not combat stress alone which causes the symptoms. "Shell shock" somewhat lumped the psychological issues in with the physical injuries from being near exploding artillery shells. Then there were chemicals, such as poison gas in WW1, Agent Orange in Vietnam, and exposure to petroleum combustion byproducts in the first Gulf War. Most recently, closed head injuries are becoming more of a factor, due to IEDs. StuRat (talk) 04:10, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

barbarians

why do barbarians wear such few clothes, like the male barbarian usually just has a loin cloth or a bit of fur and the lady barbarian just wears a bikini of cloth or metal, why do they not wear more clothes to protect themselves in a fight situation rather than going into battle almost nude? Horatio Snickers (talk) 19:25, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Are you sure you're not just confusing the popular culture image of barbarians with real barbarians? JIP | Talk 19:38, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

(EC) Are we talking about historical barbarians or barbarians from fantasy role playing games/novels/movies? If historical, then can you specify which particular group of barbarians dressed like this? I know that many Celtic warriors went into battle completely naked occasionally, but when they were not warring, they generally wore clothes suitable for the climate and season. Female barbarians are not known to have worn bikinis. KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 19:39, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Going into battle completely naked seems like it might reduce the number of warriors created in the next generation...by one means or another. :-) StuRat (talk) 04:01, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Aye, and that's why we invented sporrans.... KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 14:26, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

(EC) Barbarians originally were people who could not speak proper Greek (thus sounding like "barbarbarbar" to civilised people, who, of course, speak nothing but Greek). Dungeons and Dragons type male "barbarians" wear little armour to avoid making the game system even more unbalanced. Female "barbarians" wear skimpy bikinis to give the illustrators the ability to draw images that the mostly adolescent male audience can ogle at. In real life, primitive people often wear little clothing because they live under conditions where they do not need more, and/or because they cannot afford more. Also note that Conan the Barbarian would bolt on any armour he could find in the original text. This did not usually translate to the covers, for much the same reason as for D&D. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 19:42, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

The OP should might request a self-check-user. μηδείς (talk) 20:26, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

what does this mean? Horatio Snickers (talk) 13:56, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

What does what mean? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:05, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

I take it he's asking what Medeis meant, but failed to indent properly after her comment. I don't know what she means either, but guess she is implying the OP is a troll (somebody who asks silly questions just to stir things up). StuRat (talk) 16:58, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Kim Jong-un's face

I saw a picture on Facebook showing North Korea's Kim Jong-un and South Korea's Psy. What struck me was Kim Jong-un's face. Compared to Psy, his actual facial features seemed proportionally much smaller compared to his whole face than with Psy. Am I only imagining this, or has this been noted with Kim Jong-un? JIP | Talk 19:37, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure if any published studies have occurred on this. I can say that different people have different features, even within otherwise relatively homogenous gene pools. And Mr. Kim is a touchy pudgy, too, moreso than Psy, so that's a thing. I'm not sure what kind of answer you are expecting. Mingmingla (talk) 19:56, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

Low testosterone causes smaller features in males, and high body fat can lower testosterone. But there's no way we can diagnose his dear leaderness from afar. East Asians aren't known for heavy brows, big noses, full mouths, or strong jaws. He does seem to resemble his father to a certain extent. μηδείς (talk) 20:32, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

We may soon find out the T-level of his missiles. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:54, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Maesteg Wiki page, reassessment.

Over the years the Maesteg page has been developed and refined, yet is still placed in the 'Start' category. The historical content included on the page is sound, with references, and it is difficult to include any improvements. Could the page be reviewed and reassessed? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Coedtalon (talk • contribs) 20:00, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

It really isn't a big deal, but if it matters to you, I'd suggest talking to the folks at WikiProject Wales. It looks B-class to me, but you might as well get it checked by folks in the know. Matt Deres (talk) 00:23, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, certainly don't take those reviews too much to heart. Oft-times articles will sit around for extensive periods of time before they ever receive a review, and I can't remember the last time I saw one automatically re-reviewed, i.e., without a request being made. FWIW that article was reviewed here, way back in Sept 2008. As Matt says you could request a review at the Wikiproject or even ask the original reviewer, User:Welsh to take another look; I see they are still a very active editor. There's some obvious areas where some basic improvements could be made, for example it could do with a bit of a copyedit from some neutral eyes (you could request a copyedit at Wikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors/Requests), referencing is a bit light on, and images are clearly lacking. --jjron (talk) 15:35, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

I did a bit of rewriting in the Education section, see if you like it. I endorse the suggestion of asking for the whole article to be copyedited. You should also think about the order of the sections. Itsmejudith (talk) 16:06, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

• People who maintain WikiProjects eventually come to realize that these ratings are meaningless. Nobody bases any actions on them. The only ratings that are meaningful are "stub" (because it shows up in the article), GA ("good article"), FA ("featured article"), and A-class (for the few projects that use it). The other ratings are all treated the same. Looie496 (talk) 16:22, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

April 11

Killing of Travis Alexander

Does it seem like the trial in Killing of Travis Alexander is going on much longer than it should? Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 17:11, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

It does seem to be dragging on. But have they run out of witnesses yet? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:45, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

There isn't really any set time as to how long trials last. While the average length of a jury trial is only five days [1], media circus trials can last as almost two years (see Pizza Connection Trial). Oj Simpson's trial lasted nearly 10 months. As long as there is still a case to present, the prosection isn't going to rest. Livewireo (talk) 19:17, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

I think they could present their case a lot quicker. And I think they would have, if all of it wasn't on CNN HLN. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 19:30, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

I have to work during the day, so I can't watch HLN. I have to catch the authoritative executive summary, on Inside Edition and the like. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 20:29, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

OP, this question is asking for opinions and inviting debate. Who decides how long a trial "should" take? Who knows how anything "seems" to random strangers? Where would anyone possibly find a reference for these things? Nowhere, that's where. You've made your point that you think "they could present their case a lot quicker". Do you think they'd suddenly cut the trial short once they read your opinion here? Hardly. You've been using this service long enough to know that making self-righteous but futile points is an abuse of this service. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 21:24, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Today (on Inside Edition, of course) I saw a clip of famous attorney Mark Geragos saying that because it's a death penalty case, they're trying to make sure they get everything right. Also, the jurors are allowed to ask questions of their own, and they had well over a hundred questions for the accused. So it's taking more time than it might. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:43, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

April 12

Buckingham Life Insurance Company

What is the history of Buckingham Life Insurance Company in the United States? Was this company acquired by another life insurance company? 68.42.100.170 (talk) 01:23, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Economics 101: Law of Supply & Demand.

So, when demand far exceeds supply - and we're strictly supply-limited for some reason, then prices need to go up - right?

That much is obvious...don't really need economists to explain that!

My question is whether there is some kind of rule-of-thumb of how high prices should to be pushed to reduce demand by some amount. I know that my supply is 150% over-subscribed by the current demand...so should prices go up 10%, 20%...50%? Obviously there can't be any kind of hard-and-fast rule, I can see that it's going to depend on too many variables for that. But surely actual working businesses must use some kind of guesstimate to try to get it right?

Any ideas?

SteveBaker (talk) 02:28, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

What type of enterprise are you considering? Many small firms? A few large firms? A single firm? The answer to your question is in part a function of that factor, i.e. how much control they have over the market, and how much control someone has over them, if any. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:09, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

It's a single small business. Manufacturing capacity is pegged at the limit - and people are demanding the product in numbers far greater than that. SteveBaker (talk) 03:48, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

See Market clearing. In a nutshell, the price needs to rise to the point where a sufficient portion of the buyers drop out of the market, thereby bringing supply and demand back into equilibrium DOR (HK) (talk) 03:23, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes - I understand that - but if I wake up one day and discover that my demand has grown to (say) 150% of my supply - how much should I push the price of my product up in order to produce that desired balance. I could nudge it by 1% per week - until demand falls to where I can keep up - but I'd like to get somewhere into the right ballpark with one shot. Are there no handy rules of thumb? (Like "Increase the price by 5% for every 10% of excess demand.")...I kinda suspect that the answer is "No" - which is a typical problem with "soft" sciences...but I figure it's worth a shot. SteveBaker (talk) 03:48, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

You'd need to do some surveys and actually ask people what they would be willing to pay. Or, you can do things like eBay auctions to let the market set the price directly. The price elasticity of demand is a measure of how quickly demand will fall off as price rises. For some things, which aren't very critical and have ready substitutes, the price can't rise by much. For example, if the price of soy milk went too high, people would switch to almond milk, coconut milk, or real milk. For other things, which are critical and have no substitute, like artificial hearts, the price could continue to rise until it hits a point where people simply are unable to pay. StuRat (talk) 03:55, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

There's only a rule of thumb if you know what the distribution of demand is. Roughly speaking, you can imagine each potential buyer as having an associated price - the maximum price at which they'd buy your product. You can then produce a curve charting the price of the product versus the number of people who would buy at that price (basically, the sum of all the people who have a maximum price greater than that current set price). That curve is going to be different based on the amount of demand, and where you are in the curve. If you have a lot of people that are only marginally interested (a low maximum price), and a lot of people who are very interested (high maximum price), you'll have a large flat spot in the middle where the price doesn't affect demand much, as there's noone with a critical price in that region. On the other hand, if you have few people who are very interested, and few who are marginally interested, but instead have a large number who are medially interested, you'll have a much larger drop off in demand in the same price range. -- 71.35.98.207 (talk) 05:16, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

You also have to take into account the nature of the demand. For example, in the middle of a hypothetical desert, water and hula hoops are both in very short supply. However, you'll be able to jack up the price of water a lot more because it's vital to survival. I doubt that anyone is going to give a kidney or first born child for a hula hoop. Also, the nature of the supply is important. Will supply improve in six months, as entreprenuers start responding to the need for hula hoops by building factories or the need for water by drilling wells? Again, that also depends on the nature of the demand. A plentiful supply of water in the future may mean little to someone who is dying of thirst right now, whereas a plentiful supply of cheaper hula hoops in the future will probably induce consumers to postpone their purchase. Dominus Vobisdu (talk) 07:30, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Remember you have other options too such as increasing manufacturing capacity. If this is the business you summarized somewhat recently, have you considered getting a second laser cutter or a faster/more efficient one? Perhaps you could outsource the cutting. It may cost more, but it also frees up your time for R&D, letting you use your in-house cutter to experiment with new products or custom orders. If the bottleneck is in packing and shipping, it may be time to try to determine if there is enough demand that the increased sales can support hiring someone to help out. Upping the price to the ideal for supply/demand will optimize your profits with your current setup, but expanding your business may work out better in the long run. 38.111.64.107 (talk) 14:34, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

• I don't have anything to add, but would like to emphasize the essential thing mentioned above: you are trying to figure out the price elasticity of demand for your product. Looie496 (talk) 15:22, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Steve, have you detected an increased demand for my lungs? --Dweller (talk) 15:52, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Many thanks...the answers from 71.35.98.207 and Dominus Vobisdu really help me to think more clearly about this...but they don't resolve the problem!

38.111.64.107 correctly deduces that I'm thinking about my g/f's business "Renaissance Miniatures". We have just launched a Kickstarter - with the goal of doubling production by adding a second laser cutter (we make laser-cut plywood building models for tabletop gamers). We expected to earn maybe $30,000 - but the backers are going nuts for this stuff - and we might make $80,000. Even with that second laser cutter - we'd be totally snowed under. There is really no such thing as a faster laser cutter here. We already have a "Rolls Royce" machine. In order to move the cutting head faster, you have to apply more laser energy to keep the amount of energy per millimeter moved high enough to cut plywood. Going from a 120Watt machine to (say) a 240Watt beast causes horrific issues with keeping it cool...that's just not a do-able thing.

We considered buying a third or even a fourth laser cutter - but the trouble is that other limitations of our production process hit limits before a third laser cutter would be fully loaded - and a fourth machine would just sit idle because we wouldn't be able to package and ship the product at the rate that four machines would churn it out. That would be more work than one person can do. So we'd really need to employing a second person. But brings in a raft of other problems. Just consider insurance for "workers comp" for example. Those insurers would take one look at having someone being paid to use a home-made laser cutter with a 120 watt IR laser and they'd run away screaming!

So we have a point of resistance. With sales of $X we're severely overworked - but we can't take on another person to relieve that workload unless we earn at least $Y after expenses. Since Y is much greater than X, we have a problem. We can't grow the company smoothly from a "home business" earning $X to a business with employees at $Y. The answer seems to me to be to increase prices. That increases the profit margin - which closes the gap between $X and $Y...maybe eliminates it entirely. Economics 101 tells us that prices can rise when demand exceeds supply - which it does!

The tricky part is getting a feel for how much we can increase prices without killing the business. An experimental approach is dangerous because we rely on customer loyalty, and an overly high price jump might destroy that. A slow gradual increase in prices while we carefully monitor sales volume doesn't solve the problem because our income comes in large lumps at the end of a month-long kickstart...during which we can't change our prices anyway.

Hence, I was hoping for some kind of rule-of-thumb or tool to give me some clue as to how much to push prices with a known amount of supply and over-demand. Asking our customers "How much would you pay for X?" isn't likely to work because they'll obviously give me a low number! Also, we don't really have competitors that we can look at. Those that exist have mostly fallen by the wayside - or do not have comparable product.

Well, I guess if it was easy, anyone could do it!

SteveBaker (talk) 16:20, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Trying to set a price that limits demand is a bad idea. If you get it wrong, or if demand drops for whatever reason, your business can collapse. That price should really be your upper bound. Instead ask yourself what price you need in order to be happy. What price do you need to enable you to do a level of work you can handle sustainably and still make a profit that is sufficient for your needs? If your customers are willing to pay that price, then everything is golden. Don't worry too much about unmet demand -- just be careful to inform your customers of your current backlog and the likely delay until their orders are filled. If you have lots of customers begging for quicker service, you can think about ways of expanding the business, but of course that always carries risks. Looie496 (talk) 16:56, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

I disagree. The alternatives are having unmet demand or increasing production. The first means lost profit, and the 2nd could be more disasterous, if this item is a fad which passes, leaving Steve with unpaid-for laser cutters and excess inventory. StuRat (talk) 16:52, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

One suggestion, you can gauge the market for more expensive items by offering a "premium line". They don't actually have to cost any more to make. You can just put them in a gold-colored box or something. Or, how about putting a laser-cut signature on the base and call it "our signature series", for twice the price ? That should quickly let you know if that price is sustainable. Then you can give priority to production of those orders, since they have a higher profit margin. This effectively allows you to raise or lower the average price by changing the ratio of normal and premium items produced. StuRat (talk) 16:52, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Having a good excess of demand is great for your business. Operate a waiting list, and it says about you that what you offer is quality and highly regarded by other customers. It also gives you some buffer against recessionary problems, especially if you charge a small but non-refundable deposit to customers either when they place the order or when they hit a certain position/time in the queue. As Looie says, communication is key, but this is one problem you can perceive as a strength. Finally, the waiting list idea will give you real data, peace of mind and bargaining strength with potential lenders, if you do decide to up your output. --Dweller (talk) 17:02, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

I have a problem with an article and its content

There is an article on wikipedia containing my name for some terrorist attack in yemen in 1992. I was only born in 1996 and never been to yemen. Although I removed it off wikipedia some other web pages have the exact copy of the previous page. How do I get rid of them?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.247.50.137 (talk) 05:17, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

There are two aspects here. First, your name is very probably not unique to yourself. Maybe the article was correct, and just referred to another person with the same name. Secondly, in general there is no practicable way to remove information that is even moderately widely spread on the internet. However, many of the more visible sites that mirror Wikipedia content will eventually get the latest version from Wikipedia. So when its gone here, it will probably go there. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 06:25, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

It would really help if you told us to which article you are referring, and then we can check its accuracy and the sources of the information.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 09:13, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia has very specific rules about how we describe living people. The WP:BLP standard definitely applies here...and specifically, the sub-section entitled "Dealing with articles about yourself". Because this kind of problem is not at all uncommon in an encyclopedia with four point two million entries and uncountable numbers of vandals, troll, idiots and malcontents, we have a specific place where you can go to lodge this sort of complaint. I strongly suggest that you go to: Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard and repeat your problem there. (They will need to know both your name and the title of the article in question though!). My best guess is that there just happens to be another person with your name...that's really not uncommon. There are at least nineteen articles about people with the same name as me in the encyclopedia! (There are also two places where my name is mentioned and it *IS* about me!) SteveBaker (talk) 15:39, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

There seems to be a few hundred people around with exact same forename and surname as me, and I thought my name wasn't all that common. Very annoying, shove off all the rest of you ;-) Dmcq (talk) 11:38, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Remember: You are one in a million ! Of course, given the world population, that means you have some 7000 exact clones out there, over 1000 of which are Chinese. StuRat (talk) 16:41, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Any writers that started as wikipedia editors?

Just curious, are there any writers that started as Wikipedia editors early in their career?--Lenticel ^(talk) 05:20, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Come back and ask that again in ten or twenty years. Wikipedia hasn't been around long enough for notable writers who attribute their becoming writers to wikipedia to have developed "careers". μηδείς (talk) 18:49, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Good point --Lenticel ^(talk) 02:42, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

The question seems to depend on some pretty narrow definition of writer, perhaps to mean the same as novelist. I would argue that a lot of the better editors here are already writers. HiLo48 (talk) 23:02, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Well technically we're all writers here. Yeah, I was thinking more in the vein of novelist and/or journalists. --Lenticel ^(talk) 02:42, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

There are various writers who were notable writers before Wikipedia who have edited Wikipedia. Given my respect for them and their problems with th project and a strict respect for WP:BLP I will avoid commenting on them. μηδείς (talk) 02:55, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Three Wikipedians collaborated to write How Wikipedia Works, does that count? I believe that it is Phoebe's only book and she is not generally a writer (aside from prolific Wikimedia contributions), but I'm not sure about the other two coauthors. I think Wikipedia – The Missing Manual is another example of a Wikipedian who is not otherwise a writer publishing a book about Wikipedia. Dragons flight (talk) 03:16, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

It is possible that participation in this project could facilitate one's propensity for verbal expression. Bus stop (talk) 00:49, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Dewey Decimal Classification: Is it accurate?

I was just looking at the DDC for Why We Love Dogs, Eat Pigs, and Wear Cows: An Introduction to Carnism when I noticed it was classified under Class 600 – Technology > 640 Home economics & family living > 641 Food & drink. I find this very strange. The book has nothing to do with technology, home economics, family living, nor food and drink. It has to do with the psychology of eating meat. Why wasn't this book classified under Class 100 – Philosophy and psychology or Class 300 – Social sciences instead? Viriditas (talk) 06:16, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

There will often be subjective decisions to make in classifying, with the person responsible needing to take a view on where something fits best. Looking through the alternative, there's no obvious subcategory in List_of_Dewey_Decimal_classes#Class_100_.E2.80.93_Philosophy_and_psychology, the closest being the Ethics of consumption, but that's not about eating.

As a user, I'd expect to find the book in a food and drink-related subcategory, which is where it's been put and I think they therefore probably judged it about right. But as, like I say, it's a subjective decision, it's easy to disagree. Incidentally, it may not be about "technology" or "home economics", but I think you're pushing the case too hard by arguing that it's not about "family living" or "food and drink". I think it is... although I agree it's also about psychology.

If you'll forgive what you might perceive as a strawman argument, would you expect to find a book about the psychology of sales and marketing in psychology or 659 Advertising & public relations? --Dweller (talk) 09:52, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Have a look also at Cataloguing#Standards. SemanticMantis (talk) 15:09, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

The real problem is not Dewey Decimal - it's the requirement that a bricks-and-mortar library glue a number to the spine of the book and place it on a specific shelf. No matter what system you use, some books would be equally at home on multiple shelves - but that's impossible. In a modern electronic world, a library *could* just number and shelve books in the order they got them: 000001, 000002, 000003, etc and provide a set of many Dewey decimal numbers that might apply to each one - and to provide a computerized search engine to allow readers to find a suitable book when they need it. Such a system would have solved your problem for you - so the problem clearly isn't with the classification system itself. Your criticism more properly lies with the way the library employed it. SteveBaker (talk) 15:29, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm a cataloguer who uses Dewey in real life, and Dewey sucks. It's impossible to reduce all the world's knowledge into neat categories, so many compromises need to be made to make it work. It's as simple as that, and since this book does discuss animals as food, it could easily go there. That said, we make mistakes. Even so, it's not like those mistakes are devastating: as long as it is placed in order, it could be labelled with any number we want and it'll get found if someone wants it. Mingmingla (talk) 15:42, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Libraries quite often do what is know as copy cataloging, where instead of creating an original bibliographic record of a book for their catalog, they copy one from an authoritative source -- the Library of Congress, the British Library, &c. -- and make modifications (or not) to suit their local needs. So somewhere, someone sat and considered what subject of the book most closely was and gave it a call number based on that, and other libraries followed suit. This is a good thing in that whatever library one walks into the book is likely to be more or less on the same place on the shelf, rather than being in the 600s one place, 100s another, &c. Sometimes classification is cut and dry, and sometimes it's not. The Autobiography of Malcolm X can be classified in E185: Afro Americans -- Status and Development since Emanicipation or BP223: Islam (those are the LC call numbers, which I'm more familiar with), and can be found in either place depending on the library, or in some libraries, both places. The idea is to get each book to place on the shelf where its subject most closely matches those of its neighbors, which was especially important before cataloging was computerized and the only three access points one had for searching were title, author, and subject. --some jerk on the Internet (talk) 16:01, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

zooming in on the Koch curve

• The point of the system is not some sort of Platonic ideal of accuracy, but of having books in similar topics grouped near one another on the shelf. If a book is totally unique it doesn't matter where it is shelved. So long as all three books on food psychology end up next to each other it doesn't matter if they end up under food or psychology. Book shelves are one dimensional, a book is either to the right or the left of another. Conceptual classification has an infinite number of possible dimensions. No categorization system using shelves could possibly adjacently map an infinitely accurate categorization according to all possible classes onto a one-dimensional sequence. μηδείς (talk) 18:58, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

I've never heard it put like that. Kudos, Medeis. That's a really good visualization. Mingmingla (talk) 21:25, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, especially as it comes from a professional. Since you are interested, Dewey Decimal and other systems do actually approximate higher dimensions by using fractal nested groupings, with author's last name and date of publication, for example, determining the smallest divisions. These smaller subdivisions are like the bends in a Koch curve, increasing the classifications fractal dimension above strictly linear. μηδείς (talk) 21:40, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Similar topics are shelved in the 170 Ethics (Moral philosophy) class. This seems to be a clear case of misclassification. "Food and drink" is clearly an error. Viriditas (talk) 00:22, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

• I'm late to this party, but as a professional cataloger that even had a small role in developing the most recent iteration of Dewey, I can speak with some authority on this question. First of all, I think Viriditas is right about this book being classified wrong. It probably belongs in 179.3 (Other ethical norms--Treatment of animals, which has a scope note "Including ethics of hunting; vegetarianism"), although it's often very difficult to catalog or classify a book correctly without being able to inspect it personally. Don't read too much into the broader labels like "Technology" for the 600 class, though—the caption on the specific number is important. This particular book was classified by a professional at the Library of Congress, and unfortunately in cases like this, most libraries will just accept the LC-assigned Dewey number than making a new one locally. --BDD (talk) 22:11, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

USA Baseball world titles

A comment made on one of the Ref Desks the other day made me look into the performance of the USA in baseball's world championships. The first thing I found was that there have been three different tournaments in which countries participate, now regularised to one, with a merger and the discontinuation of the sport in the Olympic programme.

One of the few things that is consistent in the tangled history is that the performance of the USA in all three different competitions is astonishingly poor. Even if the country sent second-rate baseball players to represent them, I'd have expected at the very least a rash of silver and bronze performances, with an occasional gold thrown in.

Without going into excessive debate, is there a simple reason or reasons why the USA has performed so poorly? Has any RS (especially a heavyweight sport or news title) written an article on the subject?

Cheers, --Dweller (talk) 09:09, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Most of international baseball is played, if not by amateur players, at least by players not playing in Major League Baseball. This is the case even when the tournaments are open to professionals. This causes a disadvantage for the United States, because a very large percentage of its best players are either in MLB, or in the 5 tiers of minor leagues below it. Major League teams will almost never allow players to take a leave of absence to take part in international competitions, and this applies to top prospects in the minor leagues as well. Which leaves college players and non-prospects as the core players on the national team in most competitions. One exception is the World Baseball Classic, in which major league teams do allow some (but not all) of their star players to take part. The second disadvantage is that there is no true "national team" program in the USA, which means that whichever players are assembled for a specific competition have no experience of playing together as a team. While team play in baseball may not be as crucial as football or some other sports, it is still a problem. That situation is largely unique to the USA, as other countries who face the same problem with their best being in MLB, such as Canada, or who have very good professional leagues of their own like Japan and South Korea, have a national team program which means that their teams are always built around the same core of players, and thus play as teams, not merely as collections of talented individuals. Finally, the lack of good results has not encouraged players to commit to playing for the USA over the long term. The turnover in the Team USA roster between the 2009 and 2013 editions of the WBC was huge; it would help a lot if there was a core of players that could be relied on. --Xuxl (talk) 13:27, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Interesting, thanks. I'm surprised there's no public outcry forcing the sport's administrators in the US to do something about it, much like the pressure on England's football and cricket administrators when our national football and cricket teams have failed. Then again, there is the meme of traditional American isolationism, which if true, would mean that the public wouldn't care if the nation's baseball team performs badly on the world stage. --Dweller (talk) 15:21, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

From the American perspective, oversimplifying only slightly, MLB is baseball. Even the college game is mostly ignored except by friends and families of the players. International baseball? Sure, there's the Toronto Blue Jays. --Trovatore (talk) 18:31, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

How many native Canadians play on the Blue Jays, eh? MLB is the top level of international baseball. It includes the best American, Latino and Asian players. The reason the USA does not do well in the WBC is that most of the players figure they have more important things to do - like getting ready for the MLB regular season. The last thing they need is to get injured in a meaningless exhibition contest... like the WBC. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:42, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

I was listening to an episode of Only A Game on NPR just after the Classic was played this year when they said that the American players weren't given much time at all to practice together. Dismas|^(talk) 01:40, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

The WBC is a fairly big deal in other baseball playing countries except the U.S., like Japan, South Korea, or the Dominican Republic. There was a lot of discussion about this this past March on the sports talk shows in the U.S. It was noted that TV viewership numbers in those countries were huge, comparable to major championships in the U.S. like the Super Bowl or the NCAA Tournament. In the U.S., it was only covered on two networks: the MLB Network, which most people probably couldn't find on their cable lineup even if their system carried it, and in Spanish on ESPN Deportes. The lack of a major network partner is both a symptom of, and a cause of, the lack of interest in it (with no interest, no one wants to carry it. With no one carrying it, no one really can watch it). Besides the facts noted by several people that major American stars don't play, or if they do, they don't play together long enough to gel as a team, another big problem is that the WBC overlaps some with the 2013 NCAA Men's Division I Basketball Tournament, while it gets done before the round of 64 gets started, there was some consensus among the talking heads on the Sports talk shows this year that most people were too busy setting up their NCAA brackets to pay much attention to the World Baseball Classic. --Jayron32 02:27, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Plot

There is no plot section in trance(2013 film) why? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.112.186.146 (talk) 11:26, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

You haven't written it yet?

Thank you for your suggestion. When you believe an article needs improvement, please feel free to make those changes. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the edit this page link at the top.
The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold in updating pages. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes—they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills. New contributors are always welcome. You don't even need to log in (although there are many reasons why you might want to). --Dweller (talk) 11:47, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

A friend of mine who's seen Trance was of the opinion there is no plot.--TammyMoet (talk) 18:21, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

flag identification

Got a glimpse of a flag yesterday, randomly curious about where it belongs to, don't have eidetic memory of it, however: it was divided into quarters, the lower left and top right quarters contained (identical) fields of fleur de lis, smallish, maybe same order of magnitude as stars in the US flag; the top left and bottom right feature what looked like three (each) vertically stacked crocodiles. i think the crocodile part had an orange background, but maybe it was the fleur de lis part; maybe neither.. anybody recognize this? thanks. Gzuckier (talk) 17:06, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

The excellent database at Flagid.org rendered me these results for flags in quarters with any shade of yellow: ([2]) None really match your description but I was kind of hoping it was the Detroit one and your memory is really faulty. --Dweller (talk) 17:23, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Surely not the :Royal Standard of England (1406-1603)? I suppose that the lion's front paws could look a bit like crocodile's jaws. Alansplodge (talk) 17:30, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Belay that: the Royal Standard of England (1389-1406) is an even closer match. Alansplodge (talk) 17:40, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

ah, and that it is. as you suspected, i can't tell a lion from a crocodile. also somehow it was reversed when i saw it, although i swear the staff was on the left... thank you. Gzuckier (talk) 00:51, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

For what it's worth, those arms are extremely well known. You have the symbol of France (the fleur de lis) cross with the symbol of the Plantagenet kings (the three crouching lions). They represent the fact that Edward III believed he was the legitimate heir of both the French and English monarchies, and so in a sense they are the reason for the Hundred Years' War. Looie496 (talk) 00:58, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm rather curious now about why it was being flown. Alansplodge (talk) 01:08, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

The claim to France was not dropped from the title of British monarchs until 1801, during the reign of George III. I'm sure most Australians are not aware that when James Cook claimed the east coast of New Holland for Britain in 1770, the claim was being made in the name of a king who claimed to be King of France. Alors! Vive l'Australie!-- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 02:01, 13 April 2013 (UTC) (or, if you prefer, Jacques d'Oz)

darned if I know why it was flown; it was on a flagpole sticking out of a house, in connecticut. maybe somebody asserting a claim to the throne now that Queen Maggie has passed on. Gzuckier (talk) 08:41, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Probably one of many who claim to be descended from the Plantagenets and therefore ought to be king. A descendant of Richard III has been tracked down in Canada and has provided a DNA sample to help identify the corpse found in a car park.[3] Alansplodge (talk) 19:04, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Well it is a standard, not a country flag. It indicates the position of the King. So it means the the Monarch of England and France was there. --Lgriot (talk) 11:46, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Or (more likely) somebody who thinks that they ought to be the Monarch of England and France. Alansplodge (talk) 22:22, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

April 13

A book to read

I was looking for a good book to read. A mystery. Dark and suspenseful type, you know, ones which have dark old mansions and stormy nights. Any suggestions? --Yashowardhani (talk) 05:22, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

The Name of the Rose. Great book, very dark and suspenseful. Basically a Sherlock Holmes story reimagined in a 14th century monastery. Lots of good, gory deaths, suspense, etc. Very good stuff. --Jayron32 05:52, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Sounds good. But isn't it a bit too long? Anyway, thanks for the recommendation. --Yashowardhani (talk) 11:44, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Then watch the film; also good, and one of the few films where they let Sean Connery not pretend to not be bald. :) ¦ Reisio (talk) 12:58, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

This Agatha Christie novel of variable title is shorter and may fill the bill. Deor (talk) 12:55, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Dark old mansions and stormy nights? Try The Hound of the Baskervilles. Not too long, either. Looie496 (talk) 17:28, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

It would be a grand mistake not to read The Name of the Rose. I read it after seeing the movie in the theaters and have read it three times since 2000. μηδείς (talk) 17:34, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

The Moonstone. RNealK (talk) 18:40, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Stormy nights? Wuthering Heights! --TammyMoet (talk) 19:02, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Would you class that as "mystery"? I'd have thought that's more "psychological horror". 86.161.209.128 (talk) 19:38, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Remaining in the classics, Rebecca is definitely worth looking at. Tevildo (talk) 21:08, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

The OP and others are talking about "not too long". It would help if the OP told us what exactly this means for him, since humans have a funny habit of being very individual. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 21:37, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

For dark, I'd go with Edgar Allen Poe. You seem to prefer short stories, and many of his works are in this form. One that comes to mind is The Fall of the House of Usher. The final scene in the book appears to have inspired the penultimate scene in the movie Carrie. StuRat (talk) 03:23, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Dark old mansions and stormy nights is H. P. Lovecraft, although his stories are only mysterious, not mysteries. μηδείς (talk) 02:27, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Common names of freeways

I live in Melbourne, Australia, and I've just been on a holiday to Sydney. (For our American friends, that holiday would be a vacation.) One of the differences between the two cities is the names commonly used for the freeways (or motorways).

Here in Melbourne, while the roads have numbers such as M1 and M31, that's not how most of the public name them, nor is it how traffic reports are given. Some of the freeways have their own names (e.g. part of the M1 is the Monash Freeway), or they still use the names of the highway the freeway replaced (e.g. Princes Freeway and Hume Freeway).

In Sydney, it seems to be all letters and numbers. There's the M1, the M2, the M5, the M6 and the M31. I couldn't cope. To me there was no geographical connection between those names and their locations. I'm sure the locals would tell me that "you get used to it", and maybe I would, but it did seem harder for a visitor.

How does the rest of the world do it? Names or letter/number codes? HiLo48 (talk) 09:08, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Letter/number combination in the UK; some roads had earlier names, e.g. "Southend Arterial Road", now obsolete. In France, again, letter/number, and just a few of the main motorways also have touristy names: A6 and A7 together are "l'Autoroute du Soleil"; A10 is "l'Aquitaine". Italy very keen on names, see Autostrade of Italy. Letter/number combination plus name in Spain. Itsmejudith (talk) 10:29, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

British motorways are always referred to by letter/number combination. Everybody just knows that the M25 is the London orbital motorway, and M1, M2, M3, and M4 radiate from London, M5 is the one to southwest England, M6 is to the northwest. People outside Scotland get a bit shaky about M7, M8 and M9. Not so many people remember that the M60 is the Manchester orbital motorway since that's a fairly recent designation of a number of formerly separate roads, and then you get more obscure ones like the M606. Non-motorway highways are more logically numbered, with A1 to A6 radiating clockwise from London and A7 to A9 radiating from Edinburgh, and other roads are numbered according to the sector of the country they start in, the A494 starts between the A4 and the A5, for instance. -- Arwel Parry (talk) 10:43, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

The historical rational for UK motorway numbers is that they take the number of the A class road that they are intended to relieve. Thus the M11 was built to take traffic that would have used the A11. The A Class roads take their numbers initially from the way that they radiate from London, so the A1 goes north, the A2 goes east etc. Less important roads in between the A1 and the A2 are the A10, A11, A12 and A13. Lesser roads between the A1 and the A10 are the A100, A101 then A1000, A1001 and so on. A weird system but we've "got used to it". Alansplodge (talk) 18:56, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Of course, we have Anomalously numbered roads in Great Britain as well. Ghmyrtle (talk) 20:06, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

In the United States, it's a mixture. In many urban areas, such as Chicago (where I live), New York, and Los Angeles, many major highways have names—e.g., the Dan Ryan Expressway, the Cross-Bronx Expressway, the Santa Monica Freeway—and those names are used almost exclusively to refer to them. Elsewhere, as in St. Louis (where I grew up) and most smaller towns, major highways are usually referred to by their numbers—e.g., I-70, or just "Highway 70". (In St. Louis, though, I-170 is most frequently referred to as the Inner Belt, and I-64 is still frequently called Highway 44—"farty-far" in the local dialect—from its previous designation as a U.S. Highway.) Deor (talk) 12:48, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

I grew up in Chicago and got used to the names of highways as well as the numbers. In fact, we had a quiz in our drivers education class on the names & numbers of roads. That way whether the signs read Kingery Hwy or Rt 83, we knew it was the same road. In other places, they get a bit more confusing. Where I live in Vermont, we only have two interstates so we just call them 89 and 91. But local roads and state routes can be named different things depending on what town you are in. Going West to East, Rt. 2 is called Main St. in Burlington, Williston Rd. in Williston, and Main St. once again once it passes into Richmond. Meanwhile, Rt. 7 is called Rt. 7 in between towns and in smaller towns. It's called Ethan Allen Hwy on maps and Shelburne Road in the town of Shelburne. Though I've never run into anyone who actually uses the term "Ethan Allen Highway" when speaking. I've only ever seen it on maps. Dismas|^(talk) 13:36, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

One regional variation in the US is a Californian tendency to put "the" in front of a number. Where on the East Coast and most of the rest of the US a traffic report might say "traffic's heavy on I-95," in California the report might say "traffic's heavy on the 101." In LA there is a mixture of numbers and names. Acroterion (talk) 13:43, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Unfortunately, US roads often have multiple names, causing much confusion. Highways always have numbers, but the locals might refer to them by the number, local name, or either, depending on their mood. The situation is even worse for local roads, which can change their name quite often. In the suburbs of Detroit, for example, we have one road named Metro Parkway, Quarton, 16 mile, and Big Beaver. (You can guess which is my favorite.) StuRat (talk) 16:35, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Like the US, Canada uses number/names. For example the Yellowknife Highway is Northwest Territories Highway 3. The Mackenzie Highway is, from north to south, NWT Highway 1, Alberta Highway 35 and Alberta Highway 2. Of course between Calgary and Edmonton Alberta Highway 2 is the Queen Elizabeth II Highway. In Ontario the four oh one is the Macdonald–Cartier Freeway. The Queen Elizabeth Way in Ontario doesn't seem to have a number but is sometimes listed as 451 or 1. The Trans-Canada Highway has different numbers as it passes through each province and on the second route through the same province. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 16:42, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

I think aside from maps, no one ever calls the 401 "Macdonald-Cartier Freeway". If you asked any random person how to get to the Macdonald-Cartier Freeway, they would probably have no idea what you're talking about. Certain parts of it are called the "Highway of Heroes", although I find that kind of silly. The other 400-series highways don't have names as far as I know, but other regional highways in Ontario sometimes do. For example, Yonge Street becomes Highway 11, and people tend to say Hurontario Road and Highway 10 interchangeably. Adam Bishop (talk) 01:00, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Until I looked at the article I didn't know it had a name either. I've always remembered the road as I once had to change a flat with my back to the traffic while going up to Montreal. Not something I want to do again. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 05:30, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

• In various parts of the U.S., it varies a lot. I grew up in the Boston metro area, and roads there can be confusing for non-locals, because it's a hodgepodge of names and numbers, and the signage doesn't always match local usage. For example, the road looping around Boston is called 128 (wun-twunny-ate) exclusively by the locals, and called that on Traffic reports, though much of it has been subsumed by two interstate highways (I-95 and I-93). The signage for 128 is spotty and thus, if someone tells you to "get on 128 south and get off on exit 30A" or something like that, you're not going to see a sign for 128, you need to look for signs for I-95. Likewise, I-93 in Massachusetts is conceptualized as 3 different roads on traffic reports: North of 128 it is called just "I-93", and traffic reports and locals will call it that. Inside of 128 south to about South Boston it is called either the "Central Artery" or "Kennedy Expressway", and south of that it is called the "Southeast Expressway"; though it's I-93 the whole way, most locals will only think of the section from 128 north in those terms. The part through Boston itself is always just the "Central Artery". There's also 2 different "Route 3"s, and locals don't often draw any distinction, so you have to pay close attention and understand from context whether they mean U.S. Route 3 (from Boston north) or Massachusetts Route 3 (from Boston south). If someone says they went to the Cape and traffic was bad on Route 3, it means the southern one. If they say they went skiing up in New Hampshire and traffic was bad on Route 3, they mean the northern one (technically, they are a continuous route using local city streets inside of 128, but no one really pays attention to that. In the local mindset, Route 3 only means the two expressways). --Jayron32 02:47, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Well, it seems it's a bit of a mess in many places. Might just stay at home. HiLo48 (talk) 07:56, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

... where at least half of the locals seem to believe the Princes Highway is the Princess Highway. They apparently have Priscilla, Queen of the Desert on their minds most of the time. Rather suss, that. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 09:24, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

It's good to be flexible about these things... HiLo48 (talk) 11:08, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Yep, I was just down in the Los Angeles area where there's a mix of names of numbers, neither of which seem predictable or all that sensible. Nice to be back in the Seattle area, where we have only numbers, like I-5, I-90, I-405, and, um, the Valley Freeway, the Mukilteo Speedway...er, nevermind. Pfly (talk) 05:27, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Highway exits

As long as we're on the subject of highway eccentricities, I have a question about highway exits, on/off-ramps, interchanges, etc.

In the US Midwest, the exits along a highway are numbered according to the mileage markers along the highway. Therefore, exit 18 will be five miles from exit 23, for instance. Though there may not be any exits numbered 19-22 between them. Here in the Northeast, they're numbered sequentially. Therefore, you have no idea how many miles are between exit 18 and 23 but there will definitely be an exit 19, 20, 21, and 22. I prefer the first method since you always know how far it is to your exit.

How is this handled in other parts of the world? Are they even numbered? Or are they just called various things like the exit that takes you to Smithville is called the Smithville exit? I checked highway exit but didn't see this mentioned. Dismas|^(talk) 15:14, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

British motorways have sequential numbering, with the occasional suffix (e.g. 21a) where an extra interchange has been added. Very few major roads (other than motorways) in the UK have any numbering, just destination signage. Signage gives distances to the next exit. Dbfirs 15:23, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm surprised they still number sequentially in the Northeast US. Are those state roads ? I thought federal roads and interstates were all supposed to switch to mileage numbering. Note that mileage numbering has another advantage, in that mile 0 is at the start of the road or state border, so you know how far you are from that point, too. Also, there are mileage markers every mile or tenth of a mile, making it easy to tell how far you are from each exit (if you just passed mile 23 and there's an exit at mile 27, then you're 4 miles away). StuRat (talk) 16:18, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

The interstates in many Northeastern states are still numbered sequentially. AASHTO and the Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices has recommended that all freeway exits nationwide be numbered via mile marker, but such pronouncements are non-binding, and many Northeastern states have kept their sequential numbering schemes. In fact, when AASHTO issued their recommendation, only a few states that I know of that weren't already using mileage-based exits made the shift. It was (IIRC) the 1990s, and the only states which did shift at that time were Maine, Pennsylvania, Florida, and Georgia. Other states that currently use mileage-based systems have essentially always used them, or have for several decades, and states that still use sequential exits (IIRC, this is just New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Delaware (except Route 1), Rhode Island, Vermont and New York) have no direct plans to convert, though I think New York recently tried (and defeated) legislation to convert their roads to mileage-based exits. Other than those states, the rest use a mileage-based system. Until fairly recently, California and Illinois didn't use exit numbers at all: California didn't use them on any roads, all exits were just identified by the road name you were exiting on. Illinois didn't use exit numbers on the parts of the Illinois Tollway system, but did use a mileage-based system on non-Tollway roads. I think both California and Illinois have started numbering exits on these roads recently, however. New Jersey is also an oddity: The Turnpike is sequentially numbered, but the rest of the state uses mileage-based exits. --Jayron32 03:10, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

I've noticed an oddity in Canada, if you see a sign that says "NEXT EXIT 25 KM", that means that the next exit is 1 km away. The signs actually refer to the exit after the next one, and are there so you can determine if you need to take the next exit or can hold out until the following one. Once you know they do it this way, it's helpful, but it sure has caused me to panic when I saw such a sign and thought "Damn, how did I miss the exit ? And I don't have 25 km of gas left !". I would change the signs to say:

   EXIT 1 KM
   ---------  
   NEXT EXIT 
     25 KM

StuRat (talk) 16:23, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Stu, these are interstates. I know that 89 has exit 12 in Williston and it's not 12 miles from anything of relevance. Richmond is exit 11. Burlington is exit 13. etc. None of these sync up with mileage. It's been probably at least 6 months since I've been on an interstate in another state but I don't recall any of them being different or changing. Dismas|^(talk) 16:41, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Stu, the distance to next exit may only apply in certain provinces. Highways are a provincial matter and thus they can make their own standards. In the Northwest Territories the sign for the next exit gives the distance to the next exit not the exit after the one you are coming up on. Of course most of these are just for pull ins that may or may not have bathrooms. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 17:05, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

In the US, we call those rest areas and they are not labeled as exits since they don't lead anywhere except for bathrooms and maybe some vending machines. The only place you can go with your vehicle is back out on the highway. Dismas|^(talk) 17:10, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

In the US Midwest, all the interstates I'm familiar with go by mileage. I think Ohio used to have sequentially numbered exits, but they switched to mile-marker exits. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:18, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

France is same as Britain, and I think that is normal in Europe. The first junction is Junction 1, then Junction 2, etc. There could be 5 miles between J1 and J2 and 15 miles between J2 and J3. Itsmejudith (talk) 21:50, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Oh, and in Britain, in France, probably typically in Europe, the service areas are separate from the interchanges. Service areas are known by name. The Watford Gap is famous. Knutsford. In Britain all service areas have parking (cars and heavy goods vehicles), petrol, food and drink, and toilets. In France, you do not know until you stop whether it is just an "aire" with parking, picnic tables and (bad) toilets, or whether there is also fuel and food and drink. My favourite French service area is the Champs d'Amour (fields of love) but there is also the Héron Cendré (ashen Heron). Itsmejudith (talk) 21:57, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

In my experience on French motorways, signs usually name them before you get there, and at an aire, as you have pointed out, there are highly limited facilities. I don't' see the New Jersey Turnpike switching to mile-based, as the exit numbers are in some cases fairly iconic, at least locally (16W for the Meadowlands) And some of the rest areas are iconic too, many travelers who stop at the Joyce Kilmer Rest Area wonder who "she" was. (oddly, very few trees there)--Wehwalt (talk) 22:55, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

In southern Spain, for example near Gibraltar, the exits are numbered by kilometre number, not sequentially. I assume this applies throughout Spain, but I can't remember. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 22:46, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

A few American highways have been numbered by kilometer marker rather than mile marker, Interstate 19 and Delaware Route 1 use a kilometer-based exit numbering scheme (but still list distances and speeds in miles and miles per hour). There may be others as well. --Jayron32 02:32, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

There are also a few "dual-system" mileage signs left - particularly in California, The Land That Sign Replacement Budgets Forgot - which use both miles and kilometers. Generally, these were installed in the 1970s during the national metricization push that didn't really go anywhere. polarscribe (talk) 03:15, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

We have a few mentions of kilometers here in Vermont basically to extend the Canadians an olive branch. Dismas|^(talk) 06:28, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

I suggest you extend them a maple branch, and save the olive branch for the Italians. :-) StuRat (talk) 07:49, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Continuing from my above comments about my recent trip to the Los Angeles area--if I'm not mistaken highway exits in Southern California are sequential, not mileage based, but in the Seattle area they are mileage based. I don't have a reference to cite offhand, but I'm fairly certain this is correct. Pfly (talk) 05:31, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Autobahn exits in Austria are numbered according to kilometres passed. --Viennese Waltz 07:49, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

North Pole time zone

At the north pole, what would the time zone be. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.171.199.77 (talk) 17:16, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

According to North Pole, all of them or none. It's up to the particular group you're in as to what timezone to use. RudolfRed (talk) 17:58, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

You'd simultaneously be in all time zones (well, all the ones that reach the pole, not the odd half- and quarter-hour offset ones). There are some interesting places like the tripoint where Norway, Finland, and Russia meet, where one step in one direction or the other can take you from UTC+1 to UTC+2 to UTC+4 in winter, or UTC+2 to UTC+3 to UTC+4 in summer (since Russia's on permanent DST). -- Arwel Parry (talk) 18:04, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

You can't stand at the North Pole anyway, you'll fall through into the Hollow Earth where the Hyperboreans live. You will have to follow their eldritch and inscrutable time rules. μηδείς (talk) 20:01, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Aha, so that's what happened to Amundsen. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:15, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Where in the world did you think the UFO's come from? Silly mortal! Mwahahaha...

This is one of those Conundra in the Tundra. The trick is to stand on the North Pole and nowhere else such as the surrounding area. Feet have a habit of taking up more space than a mathematical point, and any part of the foot that is not on the exact North Pole is in a certain time zone. Portia and Shylock in The Merchant of Venice will relate to this mindbender. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 21:29, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

One half of your body can be twelve hours away from the other half. At least it's not like the rest of the word where your head moves faster than your feet. Dmcq (talk) 23:55, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

How slender would you need to be, to be standing only on the actual point of the north pole? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:56, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Infinitely slender...duh. SteveBaker (talk) 05:43, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

And the boy gets an infinitely slender cigar. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:36, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

In terms of infinitesimals, an infinitely slender person is very close to being a point, but points are defined to have zero width and infinitesimal quantities are not zero. Thus, if the north pole is within the area covered by their foot, no matter how slender they are, part of their foot will be in each time zone. -Modocc (talk) 15:20, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

In that case, you can go to hell, Weight Watchers! -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 19:17, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Right.

So here's another quasi-mathematical question: Presumably the actual north pole is a point. If you're standing close to the north pole, or even on it, being 3-dimensional, you will slowly rotate. But does the actual point of the north pole rotate? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:30, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

No, because a point has a location but no dimensions. It occupies zero space. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 13:44, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Why was "Ding Dong the Wicked witch is dead" a poular search term in September 2011

The google trend result shows a peak now - but also a high peak in September 2011. What caused the earlier peak? -- Q Chris (talk) 20:22, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

On September 20, 2011 Glee did a cover. Ryan Vesey 20:24, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, that would explain it! -- Q Chris (talk) 20:29, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

For the benefit of non-British readers, it's related to this story. Alansplodge (talk) 23:12, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Ironically, the wicked witches in The Wizard of Oz (1939 film) were also played by a Maggie. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:57, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes, but it wasn't a bunch of ungrateful moral midgets singing her death, just some little people. μηδείς (talk) 04:44, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

That's your opinion which, as you've stated ad infinitum, we apparently don't do here. Dalliance (talk) 08:25, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Let's just say Thatcher's policies did for Britain what Reagan's policies did for America, and then the reader can decide whether those were good or bad things. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:36, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes, but perhaps we should say "did to" rather than "did for", depending on your political views. StuRat (talk) 17:59, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Well spoken Bugs. Alansplodge (talk) 18:40, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes, they were both well spoken. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 19:19, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Hehe. μηδείς (talk) 19:55, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Sigh... Alansplodge (talk) 22:34, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Grin. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 00:20, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Splunge? μηδείς (talk) 00:23, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Yawn. Itsmejudith (talk) 06:51, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Goosey goosey gander,

Whither shall I wander?

Up the stairs

And down the stairs

And in my lady's chamber chander.

←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:26, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Be thankful you're not wandering in your lady's chunder. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 13:43, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Lest you may hear the Delicate Sound of Chunder, repeated so many times in the pubs here in the North during the celebrations.... KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 16:43, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

April 14

Kelmscott School London Information

Could you please check information about Kelmscott School in London,UK? It looks like someone has edited it with very disturbing information. Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.31.62.149 (talk) 17:20, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for reporting the vandalism to Kelmscott School. I have reverted it and warned the perpetrator. --ColinFine (talk) 18:01, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Can DEA reschedule drugs at will?

Per the Controlled Substances Act, can the DEA re-schedule different drugs at will without congressional approval? Hence, if the DEA chooses to re-schedule marijuana as a Schedule 5 drug, is there anyone to prevent them from doing so? Acceptable (talk) 17:52, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Basically, yes, although, if I understand right, Congress could override the DEA if it wanted. Pfly (talk) 05:47, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

The Canadian Cross of Sacrifice

I came across our Cross of Sacrifice article, and found U.S. Installations which says; "There is a Cross of Sacrifice located in Arlington National Cemetery by the graves of United States citizens who enlisted in the Canadian military, and lost their lives during the First World War. Proposed in 1925 by Canadian Prime Minister MacKenzie King, it was in part due to Canada entering the war long before the United States, and many Americans enlisting in Canada to join the fighting in Europe... The inscription on the cross reaffirms the sentiment expressed by Prime Minister King regarding Americans who served in the Canadian Forces." The text seems to mostly have been pasted directly from the Arlington National Cemetery website. Two questions; what exactly is the inscription and what exactly were the sentiments of Mckenzie King? Half an hour of Googling has failed to solve the mystery. Secondly - would Canadians really call their premier "Prime Minister King"? In the UK, we would say, "the Prime Minister, Mr King" or "the Prime Minister, MacKenzie King" instead. Alansplodge (talk) 18:54, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

I would think Prime Minister MacKenzie King but I have probably learned that from Canadian TV. Rmhermen (talk) 00:32, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

To the second question there is Prime Minister King and again. There is also Prime Minister Diefenbaker. Finally the prime ministers site has Prime Minister Harper. If you look through the speech a bit he calls the Minister of Defence by his full name Peter MacKay, the mayor of Inuvik as Mayor Lindsay, the premier of the Northwest Territories as Premier Roland and John Diefenbaker as Prime Minister Diefenbaker. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 07:10, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm not positive but most sites seem to say something like "The inscription on the cross reaffirms the sentiment expressed by Prime Minister King regarding Americans who served in the Canadian Armed Forces. Following World War II and the Korean War, similar inscriptions on other faces of the monument were dedicated to the Americans who served in those conflicts which may indicate that the inscription is that seen here. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 07:19, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

I found that too; however it's more a statement of fact than an expression of sentiment. I wondered if there was something more lyrical on the other side. Thanks for the info on addressing Canadian PMs, I suppose that they fall in between the US and UK styles. Alansplodge (talk) 09:17, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

The right panel of The first row right-most image reads: "Erected by the government of Canada in honour of the citizens of the United States who served in the Canadian Army and gave their lives in the Great War 1914 † 1918" Dru of Id (talk) 18:53, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, but I have that bit. What does "the sentiment expressed by Prime Minister King" mean? Alansplodge (talk) 20:29, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

New Party

I am having problems with the New Party (United States) article. I have problems using hyperlink sources from KeyWiki.org or Barack Obama and The Enemies Within book. Notability the Committees of Correspondence for Democracy and Socialism inside the New Party that the Committees of Correspondence was radically left (Marxist-Leninist). The users on New Party (United States) are trying to cancel my account for no good reason. After all, Keywiki.org is also a wiki.

http://www.amazon.com/Barack-Enemies-Within-Trevor-Loudon/dp/0615490743 www.cc-ds.org/

Renegadeviking

Those may not be reliable sources, per the edit comments in the article. You should raise the question on the article's talk page. Don't engage in an edit war. RudolfRed (talk) 20:14, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

And discussing on the talk page does not mean inserting the full text of a Communist Party document from 1975. It means explaining briefly what you want to do and why you want to do it. Looie496 (talk) 20:17, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Getting rid of narrow/thin white lines in maps

If you look really carefully at this map (http://www.nationalatlas.gov/printable/images/pdf/territory/pagetacq3.pdf) and similar other maps, this map has narrow/thin white lines running though some parts of it. What is the best free way to get rid of these narrow/thin white lines in Linux while still preserving all of the colors on this map and the high quality of this map? Thank you very much. Futurist110 (talk) 23:11, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

It's an artifact of the way the pdf file is set up internally. I think the image data is divided into rectangular chunks, and they aren't being welded together perfectly. If you look at it with a different pdf viewer, it will look different. Not necessarily perfect, but different. Looie496 (talk) 00:36, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Would it be a good way to convert this file into another file format (such as jpg, svg, et cetera) and then convert it back to pdf format? If so, which file format should I convert it to? As for different pdf viewers, which other pdf viewers besides Document Viewer are available for free and can be used in Linux? Futurist110 (talk) 00:52, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

The chunks are actually totally fine in the original files (they do exist as part of the vector format). But the PDF viewer makes a few "guesses" about how to scale them when rendering them, and guesses wrong. So they show up as hairline white lines. Converting it to a raster format (with, say, Photoshop or Gimp) ought to be OK, though. (PNG ought to be ideal.) Converting it to another vector format (e.g. SVG) will preserve, rather than fix, the underlying issue. But you should be aware it is really just an issue with how it is displaying on the screen, not an issue with printing or rasterizing. --Mr.98 (talk) 02:09, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Thank you very much. I am looking for a free way to fix it, and I do want it to be fixed on my computer screen as well, rather than merely when I am printing it. That said, I appear to have found a great free PDF converter here (http://docupub.com/pdfconvert/). Thank you very much for your advice about the PNG format being ideal, since I don't know much about all of the image formats out there. Futurist110 (talk) 03:03, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

I agree with previous responses, and note that the white lines appear to move when I zoom in and out, with my PDF viewer. That's a sure sign they aren't part of the actual image, but just artifacts created by the viewer. StuRat (talk) 17:55, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

April 15

Pilobolus Soundtrack

Can anyone tell me what the song used in this performance by Pilobolus is from? I have a vague feeling I've heard it being used somewhere else... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sX5AOkgxpqk&list=SPfLpFsUtJnOZX6_0uDjtIuSFq6v0EvbQl&index=3 La Alquimista 02:45, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Is it Empire State of Mind (http://www.lyrics.com/empire-state-of-mind-lyrics-jay-z.html) by Jay-Z? Futurist110 (talk) 04:04, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

teenagers

i was wondering if there's any way of knowing how many teenagers edit wikipeade. if someone reading this is, and you say so, that would give me some idea. (p.s., feel free to remove this if it violates some rule. i'm used to having everything i put on the internet being taken down.) 70.114.248.114 (talk) 06:11, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

No need to take the question down — it's an interesting question, but one to which there is no exact answer because editors do not usually disclose their age (though some do, either deliberately or by accident). I would estimate that at least a third of editors are teenagers (like yourself). Perhaps someone else can give a more accurate estimate. Dbfirs 06:45, 15 April 2013 (UTC) (no longer a teenager!)

It's a very interesting question. I would be surprised if it's as much as a third, but really I have no idea. I'm sure there have been surveys and studies about this, but this is the best I can find at the moment, which appears to be self-selecting. Maybe someone else could try digging a bit deeper.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 07:47, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Here are some results of a 2011 survey. Deor (talk) 09:08, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes, if those are representative, then the fraction is less than a quarter, so I was possibly over-estimating. I was including the frequent anon edits from school pupils that are not always constructive. Dbfirs 11:26, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

It's a tough question because "people who edit wikipedia" might be people who spend 50 hours a week obsessively creating content - or people who occasinally see a typo in an article they were consulting - and just drop in to fix it. It might also include vandals, trolls and other malcontents. So this is a tough question to answer. I think the 2011 poll is the best information we have - but it's kinda thin. SteveBaker (talk) 14:28, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

body language

if ppl call you fat enough, you start to believe it. that's known. but i was wondering if there body language can effect how fast this happens. (p.s., do the admins ever block an ip permanently? and what's with me being asked for a captcha do to external links when there were none?) 70.114.248.114 (talk) 06:18, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

In reply to your postscript: No, IPs are not usually blocked permanently. That's because they are not usually permanently assigned nowadays. We don't want to block other users that get the same IP by accident. You are being ask for a CAPTCHA to fend of link-spamming robots. Even when you only add a portion of the page and don't add a link, there may be an external link elsewhere in the page when you try to safe it. It's not quite trivial to find out if an edit added a URL (consider a spam bot who edits the page 3 times, each time adding 1/3rd of the address), but it is easy to check if there is any URL in the text, so, AFAIK, that is what Wikipedia uses. The easy solution is to register an account. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 07:29, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

I don't think you should start to believe that you're fat just because other people say so...and that's independent of whether it's their body language or what they call you. Science to the rescue...you can calculate it!

You can measure your weight versus your height and find out for yourself. When you know the answer, you don't have to care what other people are saying about you...you'll know for sure. It's really easy to weigh yourself and measure how tall you are and calculate your "Body mass index" (BMI) - which is the standard that lets you know whether you're overweight or not.

If you know your weight in kilograms and your height in meters, divide your weight by the square of your height and that's your BMI. If you know your weight in pounds and height in inches then divide weight by the square of your height and then multiply the result by 700.

• If you're a child or a teenager, then you need to consult the chart in our Body mass index article.
• If you're an adult, and the BMI result is below 25, then you're the right weight for your height - and definitely cannot be considered "fat". At a BMI of around 25 to 30, then you might want to consider losing a few pounds, but calling you "fat" is a bit excessive (the technical term would be "obese"...which, for adults means "a BMI over 30"). But if you're an adult and your BMI is over 30, then perhaps your friends are trying to tell you something important...but perhaps in not the most subtle of ways!

So for me, I'm 5'10" (which is 70 inches) and I weigh an unfortunate 210 lbs (down from 300lb a couple of years ago). So 700x210/(70x70)=30, so with my BMI of 30, I'm what you'd fairly call "fat" - and I'm working hard to do something about it. You can turn the math around and multiply your height squared by 25 (and divide by 700 if you're working in pounds and inches) and get your desired weight...which for me is 25x70x70/700 = 175lbs. So I've got to lose 35lbs...and since sustainable weight loss requires that you do it sensibly, I've been eating 1700 calories per day and dropping about one pound per week - so it'll take me another six or seven months to get where I need to be....sigh.

But if your BMI is below 30, and certainly if it's below 25, then you will know for sure that you aren't fat - and to hell with anyone who says otherwise!

SteveBaker (talk) 14:25, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Don't know of anything specific but peer pressure or social exclusion or body language might be starting points. Most of the emotional impact of what's said comes from body language but people vary greatly in how they deal with negative opinions or taunts, I'd guess psychological resilience would say something about that. There are measures of how fat a person is like body mass index and they should be relied upon for factual information, if a person is dangerously obese then they should try to do something about it for the sake of their health. Personally I think one should depend on others for knowing how one appears as that is likely to be less biased than one's own opinion, but it should be viewed dispassionately as if one was another person and whether good or bad it should just be treated as evidence in figuring out the future rather than as an emotional subject to waste time on or rejected so one does things assuming an untruth. Dmcq (talk) 14:33, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Body dysmorphic disorder--TammyMoet (talk) 17:40, 15 April 2013 (UTC).

BTW, I think you meant body image. "Body language" is conveying information by nonverbal means, like sitting close to somebody you like. StuRat (talk) 17:48, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

protect childhood innocense

I would like to learn about a group who proports to protect childhood innocense. My search yielded religious affiliations but I did not find the full extent their protection encompasses. Protecting childhood innocense seems an admirable goal, but my question is the definition of childhood innocense protection. Is this a back door method of promoting pro-life or pro-choice positions or really as simple as the name implies, protecting the innocense of children? Where is the source of funding and to whom has the funds gone? Who are recent recipients of the funding and what criteria needs to be met for funding to be dispersed?

This is the first time I have ever asked a question of Wikipedia so am not sure of the proper presentation or if I have provided enough information in order for Wikipedia to research my question and then provide a response. Upon your advise, I shall be happy to provide any information Wikipedia may require of me.

Thank you for your kind attention to this inquiry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.171.163.12 (talk) 17:01, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Usually when people talk about "protecting childhood innocence" (note the spelling), what they mean is preventing children from learning about sex. And usually it is religious-oriented people who care most about that. On the whole, though, your questions are so broad that they are almost impossible to answer in a meaningful way. Looie496 (talk) 17:07, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

It's short, but Children's interests (rhetoric) basically sums up how many people would interpret that phrase to be used. Think of the children! ~ Amory (u • t • c) 17:42, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

It wouldn't directly fit with either a pro-life or pro-choice position, but does go along with anti-condom and anti-birth-control philosophies. The idea is that if children know nothing about sex, then they won't have sex, so don't need such things. However, this argument is seriously flawed, as keeping children ignorant of sex in modern society would require total isolation from mass media and society. And, even if you could do that, children eventually figure out sex all on their own. So, the result of such policies is unprotected sex, leading to disease and unwanted pregnancies. Once the unwanted pregnancy occurs, then the pro-life bit comes in.

The new vaccine against HPV given to girls to prevent cervical cancer might also be targeted in the name of "preserving childhood innocence", thus increasing the rates of cervical cancer. StuRat (talk) 17:44, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Given to boys and girls these days. Turns out if you just give it to girls the incidence of oral cancer in males goes up. ~ Amory (u • t • c) 18:04, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

What about gun safety lessons, shouldn't these start as soon as children are coordinated enough to pull a trigger? It's rather naive to think they won't shoot each other if we don't talk about it. μηδείς (talk) 17:54, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Can you identify this city?

See this picture. Thanks. μηδείς (talk) 17:52, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

[4] got via google images Dmcq (talk) 18:04, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Same as Dmcq, but I used tineye. ~ Amory (u • t • c) 18:06, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Duh, I was pushing the wrong button at Google. μηδείς (talk) 18:20, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Just as an aside, see Los Angeles City Hall which is probably the most famous building in the downtown L.A. skyline, for a city not known for its iconic tall buildings this is probably the most famous one. --Jayron32 20:25, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Well, forgive me, but except for Texas and Salzburg I have not been west of the Mississippi. μηδείς (talk) 21:18, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Learner's License Ontario appointment required for test

Do I have to make an appointment for taking Learner's License test?--Donmust90 (talk) 19:26, 15 April 2013 (UTC)Donmust90