Wikipedia:Reference desk/Humanities

Welcome to the humanities section
of the Wikipedia reference desk.

skip to bottom

Select a section:

• Computing
• Entertainment
• Humanities
• Language
• Mathematics
• Science
• Miscellaneous
• Archives

Want a faster answer?

Main page: Help searching Wikipedia

   

How can I get my question answered?

• Select the section of the desk that best fits the general topic of your question (see the navigation column to the right).
• Post your question to only one section, providing a short header that gives the topic of your question.
• Type '~~~~' (that is, four tilde characters) at the end – this signs and dates your contribution so we know who wrote what and when.
• Don't post personal contact information – it will be removed. Any answers will be provided here.
• Please be as specific as possible, and include all relevant context – the usefulness of answers may depend on the context.
• Note:
  • We don't answer (and may remove) questions that require medical diagnosis or legal advice.
  • We don't answer requests for opinions, predictions or debate.
  • We don't do your homework for you, though we'll help you past the stuck point.
  • We don't conduct original research or provide a free source of ideas, but we'll help you find information you need.

Ready? Ask a new question!

How do I answer a question?

Main page: Wikipedia:Reference desk/Guidelines

• The best answers address the question directly, and back up facts with wikilinks and links to sources. Do not edit others' comments and do not give any medical or legal advice.

See also:

• Teahouse
• Help desk
• Village pump
• Help manual

May 19

Female history photographer

Am looking for the name of a female photographer at the time of the San Francisco Earthquake. Fallen white draught horses/drays are among her images... She gave up photography after that due to lack of money. Thanks, Julia Rossi (talk) 01:32, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't know about the "lack of money", for she appeared to continue to take photographs, but you may mean Edith Irvine. Her "Dead Horses" photograph can be found here [1]. ៛ Bielle (talk) 03:13, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

That's it! A double bonus, thank you so much Bielle! Julia Rossi (talk) 04:52, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

You are most welcome, Julia. ៛ Bielle (talk) 04:55, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Sunken ship in the Thames

I was just recently told about a ship that was sunk in the Thames river, in or near London I think it was, which is still there today. According to what I was told, it's an American ship, is loaded with munitions, and the mast of the ship is still visible above the surface of the water. Does this ring any bells with anyone? Dismas|^(talk) 01:40, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Upon further thought, it might have been Liverpool that they were referring to. We were talking about both London and Liverpool, so I might have them confused. Dismas|^(talk) 01:44, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

SS Richard Montgomery. [2].—eric 02:07, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

That's got to be it! Thanks! Dismas|^(talk) 02:37, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

This is the ship, ss richard montgomery —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.74.1.156 (talk) 14:48, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Muftis

How come in Somalia and Bangladesh they don't have muftis or grand muftis like Lebanon and Iran have ayatollahs and grand ayatollahs? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.14.119.204 (talk) 02:42, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Mufti and Sharia. Strawless (talk) 14:31, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Drugs in the Middle ages.

Is there any record or literature of drug experiences from the middle ages? Did any great artists or thinkers leave anything behind that detailed the use or stigma of drugs in that time? Who even used drugs back then, was it just some obscure hobby to pick the mushrooms from the cow fields and eat them or was this activity well known? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.232.250.222 (talk) 03:07, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Aside from alcohol, I don't think there was such a concept as recreational drugs. You could check and see if St. Augustine gave any details about his lifestyle of debauchery before he converted, I'm sure alcohol, at least, was involved. The one group that immediately springs to mind is the Assassins, who may have used drugs like cannabis or hashish, or maybe alcohol, although plain old unaided fanaticism may have been enough for them. In Europe, sometimes eating something poisonous would make you go a little crazy for awhile; but in a case like ergotism it would also make your limbs gangrenous, so that wouldn't be much fun. I can't think of any philosophers or artists who wrote about recreational drug use; I can think of some who wrote about religious hallucinations, like Catherine of Siena, but anyone like that who starved themselves for God like she did was probably just anorexic, not on drugs. Or what about Joan of Arc? Was she just really pious, or on drugs? How could we tell the difference, really? Medieval medicine was pretty good, so medical treatises might be a good place to look for info about hallucinogens and other kinds of drugs. (Hopefully our article will be able to point you somewhere more useful!) Adam Bishop (talk) 06:28, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

The Norse warriors called Berserkers are likely to have used psychoactive drugs according to the article here[3] who were active around at the time of the early Middle Ages and not only. Julia Rossi (talk) 10:27, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

There's an interesting case from the late 14th century of a Parisian "Society of Smokers", satirized by the French composer Solage with his bizarre composition Fumeux fume par fumee. I wrote that article three years ago, before we were putting in inline cites, so I'd have to dig through my sources again, but exactly what they were smoking is a matter of some dispute. The singers go lower and lower and then get irretrievably lost towards the end of the music, and it's abundantly obvious from the music they're stoned on something. Tobacco was unknown in Europe in the 14th century. Hashish is one of the hypotheses on that piece. Antandrus (talk) 14:58, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

If it doesn't have to be Europe, not the middle ages and no written record, you might want to look at Coca. Some aphrodisiacs supplied by local herbalists are likely to have contained substances that today are considered drugs. Look at Atropa belladonna or Mandrake (plant) for instance. These toxic/poisonous plants contain psychoactive substances. Poppy seed pastries were known and liked in the middle ages, although one would have had to consume quite a lot of those for any drug effect, I guess. 71.236.23.111 (talk) 09:50, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Our article on opium poppy indicates that people who consume two to four typical poppy seed bagels may test positive for narcotics. As a self-confessed lover of poppy seed strudel I request the presence of a lawyer before continuing with my answer :) --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 12:23, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Note, of course, that when you say "Middle Ages" you seem to be thinking "European Middle Ages". Of course at the same time as that, there were all sorts of Native Americans who were taking peyote and in China they had opium production and in India they had hashish. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 15:08, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Well technically the Middle Ages can refer only to Europe. Other cultures have other chronological divisions. Of course, you can refer to time periods that took place at the same time as the Middle Ages. Adam Bishop (talk) 07:33, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Indian Muslims

I am new to this thing about Indian Muslims. Is there any Muslim population in Rajasthan, Himachal Pradesh, Uttar Pradesh, Bihar, Jharkhand, Uttarakhand, Haryana, Madhya Pradesh,West Bengal, Tripura and Tamil Nadu? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.14.119.204 (talk) 03:25, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

The article Islam in India and more specifically the section on Population statistics will help you with your question. C mon (talk) 06:43, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Arab world under Iran

At what extent does Iran, which is not Arab, have influence in the politics of Sunni dominated, arab speaking countries ?

• It is said that the Syrian regime is at least close to Iran, is this correct ?

• The Hezbollah affects the politics of numerous countries : Lebanon, Israel, Jordan, Transjordania. At what point does the Shia connection come into play ?

• It has been said that many of the Shia activists that have undermined the pro-American Iraq regime were at least sympathetic to Iran. True or false ?

• It is accurate to say that in the Persian Gulf states, some of King Saud's major political opponents have been helped by Anti-American, pro-Iran groups ?

• Would a Pax Iranica scenario be directly opposed to the projects of the pro-Western, European and US governements ?

69.157.239.231 (talk) 03:29, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

It seems to be you're concentrating too much on Iran. Iran does have an influence, but there are a lot of people who hate America and hate Iran too. Osama for example. Or Saddam Hussein in his later years. (Who also hated each other.) The Arab world is a lot more complicated then Iran in one end, the US at the other... As for Pax Iranica vs other governments, again it's not so simple. For example, both Iran and the US support democracy when it gets them what they want. But if not, well then not so much... Nil Einne (talk) 12:15, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

• Syria is indeed close to Iran. When Saddam Hussein was at his most powerful, this was an alliance of neccessity, but asside from that, the ruling élites of Syria, who are mostly Alawites, have more in common with Shi'ite Iran than their Sunni neighbours, (or their Sunni people, for that matter). They also share in interest in a Shi'ite/Hezbollah Lebanon - with a client Iraq and a friendly Syria, Lebanon is now the only thing blocking Iran from the Mediterranean.

• By Transjordania, I assume you mean Palestine? And out of that list, its only really Lebanon where they have political influence, although they have military influence throughout the region. As an aside, one of the most interesting effects of the '06 War was how Hezbollah is no longer seen as the Shi'ite militia, instead, many see them as an army of national liberation, and now experience support from beyond their traditional base.

• The Persian Gulf states and Saudi Arabia really are a different kettle of fish. In Saudia, there are a great deal of anti-American groups, but very few pro-Iranian groups (except around the Persian Gulf, which has its own Shi'ite minority, I believe). Arab-Persian antipathy is as old as time itself, whereas Arab anti-Americanism is much newer. Most radical Arabs would rather have nothing to do with either group.

• Aside from Israel, there are very few things that the West and Iran have to disagree about. Any argument that we oppose Iran due to its human rights record are negated by the fact we support much worse nations, Iran is a Jeffersonian Utopia compared to Saudi Arabia. 'Pax Iranica' would only be opposed to our projects if we chose to use our projects to oppose Iran. Ninebucks (talk) 17:54, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

The Bodhisattva

Where does the Mahayana teaching about the Bodhisattava come from? Is it the Lotus Sutra? And why then do Theravadins not accept the concept of a bodhisattva? Any help would be great, I'm doing some research into Buddhism :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.23.22.252 (talk) 10:40, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

See Bodhisattva, Theravana and Mahayana use the term differently. -- Q Chris (talk) 12:35, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks - I have looked at the Bodhisattva article but it doesn't say where the teachings about the Bodhisattva originate from. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.1.226.232 (talk) 14:36, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Current riots in South Africa

How can South Africans identify who is not from South Africa? Do they have different facial features? And who are the rioters: black, white, everybody? 217.168.3.246 (talk) 13:44, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

South African nationality law and Identity document#South Africa. Strawless (talk) 14:27, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Strawless you are useless. The question was about a rioting mob attacking people on the streets. How do they know whom to attack? Do the ask for the ID? 217.168.3.246 (talk) 14:43, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Please see WP:Civil and WP:NPA - we try to keep things friendly here. You could have easily linked an online news article for Strawless's information. From reading this morning's and the weekend newspapers, I would say that most people in the townships know who are foreigners and who aren't (people tend to stick to their own kind which would make it easier to tell who is foreign). Although, according to recent reports, general lawlessness has replaced the xenophobia of last week. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 14:57, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

217, your first question wasn't about a mob or an attack, please read it again. One answer is official ID documents. Strawless (talk) 15:22, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

There are a wide variety of languages spoken in Southern Africa. Those spoken in Zimbabwe and other homelands of migrants to South Africa are different from the languages of South Africa. Also, there is a local patois called Tsotsitaal that is common in the black townships around Johannesburg. I would expect that migrants are identifiable by their speech. If they speak languages indigenous to South Africa, such as Tsotsitaal or Xhosa, they likely to speak imperfectly or to have an identifiable accent. Possibly South Africans can also identify migrants by their English accents, their styles of dress, or other cultural markers. It also likely that migrants have congregated in certain urban districts, where they would make easy targets. Marco polo (talk) 21:09, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

I once asked a friend from Belfast, how during The Troubles did they tell if someone was protestant or catholic. He said it was usually because they knew their family background, but failing that their surname and slight differences in accent were usually sufficient. In Johannesburg, I would imagine name and language would be pretty conclusive evidence for the mob to decide who to attack next. Astronaut (talk) 08:31, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

And how do the good folks in Belfast knew if a foreigner was catholic or protestant? 217.168.1.150 (talk) 12:11, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Most of the people of Belfast didn't really care if a foreigner was Catholic or Protestant. This goes to show that the Troubles were not so much a religious conflict as an ethnic one. I am an American, and I visited Belfast during the Troubles. No one ever asked about my religion. Marco polo (talk) 18:04, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

If this comic strip is anything to go by (yes, it's South African), they can't tell, although one guy's method is shown here. Deor (talk) 13:11, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

MPs

how can I found out of my MP hads voted for the embrology bill? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.128.192.21 (talk) 19:04, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

You'll find it on theyworkforyou.com/mp/. Xn4 19:10, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

That, of course, assumes that this is the British Parliament we're talking about. 86, if it isn't, you'll have to talk about what country you are referring to. Paragon12321 (talk) 00:00, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

I hazarded a wild guess that 86 was asking about the British House of Commons simply because it's debating an enormously controversial Embryology Bill yesterday and today! Xn4 01:11, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

speak truth to power

what does the phrase "speak truth to power" mean and where did it originate?Smoore2040 (talk) 20:38, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

The phrase is self-explanatory. It means not to be a "yes man". Googling on "truth to power" yields 1,840,00 hits, the first of which looks OK and attributes the phrase to a Quaker, Milton Mayer, writing for the American Friends Service Committee in 1954. --Milkbreath (talk) 20:59, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

The 1954 pamphlet itself[4] says "Our title, Speak Truth to Power, taken from a charge given to Eighteenth Century Friends" This[5] says it is "an expression of the foundational Quaker belief that the light of understanding resides within each and every person." IIRC Noam Chomsky has criticized the phrase, saying - so what, power won't listen.John Z (talk) 21:38, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

The phrase is hardly self-explanatory, and after reading this I'm still wondering what it means.

May 20

Dog Training Equipment

What are the laws/rules/regulations about dog training equipment in Victoria, Australia? including:

• Prong/Pinch collars and Correction collars- who can use them, when can they use them and why can they use them (including institutions such as boarding kennels and day care centres).

• What guidelines/regulations are there for vets or trainers recommending dog training eguipment?

• What does the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act 1986 say about dog training equipment?

Thank you.

140.159.2.32 (talk) 03:17, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, for a start, here is the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act 1986 for your perusal. Adam Bishop (talk) 07:36, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

John Doe

According to the John Doe article, it says that the name is used for male corpses or emergency room patients when the identity is not known. It then says, Jane Doe would be used for females, and Baby Doe for babies. It then goes on to say that additional members of the family would be known as 'Judy Doe', etc. How can they tell if they are members of the same family if they have no idea who they are?--ChokinBako (talk) 04:29, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

They might have done DNA tests. --71.236.23.111 (talk) 05:04, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Or there could be an undeniable family resemblance, especially in case of twins. Or they could just make an assumption that two unidentified adults and an unidentified child who died in a car crash were two parents and their child. It's not as if they are giving them new and final names, after all, they're just using them to identify them and differentiate between them internally. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 06:56, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Speaking as an ER registration clerk, I'd say the article needs a little correction. While there may be assumptions that patient X and patient Y are related, if we cannot verify their identity, it doesn't really matter. "John Doe" is a placeholder until we can find out who this person is, no other assumptions made. It's basically a way to refer to the patient, and allow us to register them in computers for lab work, X-rays and the like. Luckily, we've not had any situations with multiple John Does at my hospital, because we don't really have a set policy on the subject. Speaking personally, I'd just use similar names (patient 1 is John Doe, patient 2 is James Doe, patient 3 is Jimmy Joe, etc.) to make it clear that this is an unknown patient, but differentiate from the other unknown patients. — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 16:34, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

There are people really called 'Doe' (see, for instance, William Doe and Samuel Doe), so I can't help pondering on this: In the US, how would one register the bodies of a family of real Does? Xn4 02:06, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Some more rampant speculation: when they're filling out the form, they probably just put in "(real name)" after the name or come up with something else along those lines. (Hell, the form probably has fields for information like "date of birth" or "social security number" or whatever, things that immediately make it clear that this person's identity is known.) The Hand That Feeds You above tells us that their hospital doesn't really have a set policy beyond "men are John Doe and women are Jane Doe", so they do the most sensible thing they can think of as the situation changes. This is common sense, really; it's not about following some kind of a strict ruleset, but about coming up with a simple way to distinguish bodies from one another. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 17:07, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Right. At our hospital, we require at least two out of three "patient identifiers" to register someone: name, date of birth & social security number. With at least two of those, we're reasonably sure that this is the correct patient. For a John/Jane Doe, we don't have that information so I put DoB as 01/01/1950 and SSN is just 999-99-9999. I also inform the nursing staff that this is a John/Jane Doe, so it's clear to them that this is not a proper patient account, it's just a placeholder until we can identify the victim (who may not be dead, just incapacitated). In the case of an actual "Sam Doe born 11/21/1973 with SSN 505-50-5050" it would be clear that this is a real person, but I'd also make sure the nursing staff was informed that I had verified the patient information. — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 02:28, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Is the USA a "State Sponsor of Terrorism"?

With this news that the US representative in Havana has been providing funds to Cuban "counter revolutionaries", could the USA be considered a State Sponsor of Terrorism, in the same way the the USA appies that label to the likes of Cuba, Iran, Syria, etc? Astronaut (talk) 08:56, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Hmm... One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.--Lenticel ^(talk) 10:56, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

(ec) This is not news. The US was, for example, conducting a campaign of sabotage against Cuba in '59. In general, "Washington is the center of global state terrorism and has been for years." (Chomsky) See Allegations of state terrorism by the United States. Algebraist 10:57, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

The absolutely HUGE diff is that the Cuban dissidents aren't terrorists who are going to send suicide bombers against the Cuban government, they will maybe use the money for democracy rallies (protests) and such. StuRat (talk) 13:46, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Remembering Chile, and Nicaragua, and one or two other places, that is scant comfort and probably wishful thinking, Stu. --Tagishsimon (talk) 13:58, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Have you never heard of Luis Posada Carriles, StuRat? 194.171.56.13 (talk) 14:26, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

The US has long sponsored reactionary movements in countries it felt were politically unpalatable. Like most insurrectionist movements they have been, at times, violent—including bombings, assassinations, atrocities. To pretend that the US has just been sponsoring rallies with leaflets is, well, naive, given the history of US involvement in, say, Cuba, Chile, Nicaragua, Panama, Afghanistan, Iran, Vietnam, and so on and so on over the past 40-50 years. It's one of the reasons that trying to draw a firm line in the sand between the "terrorists" and the more "legitimate" violent opposition becomes a bit tough. This is not an exclusively anti-US comment—it's more on the nature of violence in the modern world. Very little has been accomplished with leaflets and democracy rallies. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 15:28, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Actually, "leaflets and democracy rallies" freed Eastern Europe, Spain, Portugal, Greece, the Philippines, ex-Soviet Georgia, etc. As for the USA being a "sponsor of terrorism," I think the key here is the use of the present tense. I know the CIA hasn't folded up shop, but they don't fund Contras or Mujahideen anymore. The Posada example is telling, since the U.S. has hardly welcomed him. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 04:26, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Dare I ask how you would even know if we funded contras or mujahideen anymore? I find it extremely unlikely that the CIA is not still funding people who would be considered quite dubious. I'm fine with saying that you (and I) don't know. But saying that you know, well, I have to play the radical agnostic on that one—I don't know, and you don't either! And given the "gloves are off" approach post-9/11, mixed with the history of funding said peoples, it seems to me that the assumption should be that they are doing it, not that they aren't.

And no, I don't think leaflets and democracy rallies were what freed the places you mention. Economics, global geopolitics, etc., had more to do with it in all cases. Eastern Europe was freed because the USSR got to a place where it couldn't afford—for a number of reasons—to enforce the order it once had. The rallies and leaflets were a symptom of that situation, not the cause of it. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 15:00, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, for one, there are no Cold War bad guys outside of Cuba and North Korea anymore. There are governments we don't like such as those of Venezuela and Iran, but there are no rebel movements of any legitimate threat, terrorist or non-terrorist, in those countries, like Nicaragua's Contras. It's no secret the US funds anti-democratic governments in places like Egypt that engage in oppression, but you asked about terrorism, which is different. I'm sure we also fund pro-US groups in places like Afghanistan and Pakistan, but those groups are not working against their respective governments, so I don't think they can be called terrorists. As for your assertion that leaflets and rallies didn't free all those countries, tell that to the hundreds of thousands who marched in the street for change. Social history can only get you so far -- it's people who actually make change. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 03:10, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

It seems every time I mention the Iran-Contra affair, 80% of people give me blank stares. bibliomaniac15 04:41, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, that whole black mark on the Reagan administration is neatly swept under the rug nowadays. I was just a kid when it came out, so most folks under the age of 30 probably have no idea what it was. — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 16:42, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Origin of this quote

Does anyone know who coined the phrase, "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter." 71.236.23.111 (talk) 11:00, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

I tried to google it http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22One+man%27s+terrorist+is+another+man%27s+freedom+fighter%22&btnG=Google+Search&meta= but there are several names showing up. I think several people have said it many times, like the saying too many cooks spoil the food or something. Bed-Head-HairUser:BedHeadHairGirl12:59, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your effort, I had tried that and couldn't find an original source either. I guess I'll have to stick with "old saying". :-( The cooks were the one's with the broth (least ways they used to be).--71.236.23.111 (talk) 13:37, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

That phrase seems simple enough that many people may have independently said it, like "it's cold outside". StuRat (talk) 13:51, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

I see the phrase attributed to Yasser Arafat, this is probably based on a 13 November, 1974 address to the UN:

The difference between the revolutionary and the terrorist lies in the reason for which he fights. For whoever stands by a just cause and fights for freedom and liberation of his land from the invaders, the settlers and the colonialists, cannot possibly be called terrorists...

In this this thread from the forums at quoteland.com, Fred R. Shapiro, the editor of Yale Book of Quotations states the first edition attributes the phrase to Gerald Seymour in Harry's Game (1975)—mentioned in our article on the author—but that the second edition will include an earlier citation: Winnipeg Free Press, 1 Feb. 1971.—eric 16:32, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

It sounds as though it might be a paraphrase of a quotation by Benjamin Franklin: “Rebellion is only treason in the third person — ‘their rebellion’ — never in the first person — ‘our rebellion.’” — Michael J 06:28, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Self-identification

Here's a funny thing. I was thinking just now about the concept of self-identification, so I looked "self-identify" up on Google. The first hit that came up was Category:Deletionist Wikipedians. There is nothing about self-identification on that page, so I can only assume someone has done a Google bomb to make the page come up. But why? I can't see a humorous connection between the concepts of self-identification and deletionism. But then again, I'm an inclusionist :)

As a postscript, I am slightly troubled by the concept of self-identification. You often read about people who "self-identify" as black, gay, etc. The implication seems to be that one is deemed to belong to a particular group only because one considers oneself to be part of that group. One could argue, however, that there are societal norms and conventions which can be used to determine objectively whether one belongs to a group or not. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 15:19, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

It need not be a deliberate Google bomb: it's possible it occurred naturally via 'User X self-identifies as a Deletionist' or somesuch. Can't find any evidence of this, though. On your postscript: of course one can argue that we shouldn't always agree with people's self-identifications. That's why the term exists in the first place, so we can (e.g.) say 'X self-identifies as black' without committing ourselves on the question of whether X is black or not. Algebraist 15:29, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

There are different issues and questions that come up in differnt people's lives. Just to give an example: I've never had to agonize over whether to buy a Ferrari or a Hummer. But growing up in a family where I could go to friends' houses to play where my brother wasn't welcome because he looked more like one side of the ancestry whereas I look more like the other, self-identification is something that I have dealt with. People get sorted into drawers. We all do that subconsciously. Rather than constantly running afoul of people's expectations, it's nice to be able to say: "This is the drawer I feel comfortable in. I don't have to try to fit into the one you'd like to objectively put me in." 71.236.23.111 (talk) 20:13, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

See also: postmodernism. User:Krator (t c) 09:06, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

See also ethnogenesis.--Wetman (talk) 10:46, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

International Wire Transfert exchange rate

For an international wire transfert of xxx euros between a french account to an american account by SWIFT system, who apply the exchage rate? the french bank or the american one? Thank you in advance for your answer--FrancoisD (talk) 21:53, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Since you mention SWIFT, I assume you are asking about the interbank wholesale foreign exchange markets, and not about retail currency transactions. If there is only one transfer of euros then there is no foreign exchange involved, so no exchange rate is required. To settle a foreign exchange trade where the French bank is, say, selling euros for dollars, there must be two transfers - the French bank will transfer euros to the American bank's agent bank in Europe, and the American bank will transfer dollars to the French bank's agent bank in the US. The exchange rate will have been previously negotiated, agreed and confirmed between the banks - for spot FX trades the settlement payments take place two working days after the trade has been agreed. Gandalf61 (talk) 22:34, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

I was actually talking about retail currency transaction. I mentionned SWIFT because they define the way to do such a transfert (through SWIFT code), but I m not an expert and I may be wrong.--FrancoisD (talk) 23:42, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

When I last made such a transfer, which was more than a year ago, it was from an account with Sogenal, and the bank was able to tell me the likely exchange rate before I signed a form to confirm the transfer, so the amount in dollars appeared on the form. But I believe the actual exchange occurred at an intermediary bank. It's worth mentioning that there was a flat-rate charge for the transfer at the French end. The destination bank in the US (which claims to provide free banking) used to make no charge for receiving such international transfers, so long as the money arrived in US dollars, but it does now charge $10. Xn4 00:38, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Agreed - alhtough there won't be any room for negotiation in a retail transaction, the bank that is arranging the transfer for you should be able to tell you up-front what exchange rate they will give you and what commission or other charges you will be paying. So you should know exactly how many dollars you will get for your euros, or vice versa. Between one end and the other your transfer will get bundled up and netted off with a whole lot of other transfers, internal payments and funding movements between the two banks concerned - but you don't need to worry about this. Just ask how many dollars/euros will be credited to the account at the other end. Gandalf61 (talk) 09:55, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you both for your answers. I want to add that on the french end they claim to provide a free transfert but I suspect them to take a hidden commission on the exchange rate. The french bank pretends that it just sends euros and so doesn't apply any exchange between euros and dollars. They tell me that it's the american part that convert euro into dollars and so takes a commission. I what to know whether or not it is possible in the international wire transfert system and how I can be sure of what they say.--FrancoisD (talk) 14:41, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Okay, so it sounds like the French bank is just making a euros payment to the US bank (or, more likely, to the US bank's agent bank in France) and is then leaving it up to the US bank to convert the euros into dollars. So the French bank is only providing half of the service that you want. If they can't or won't tell you exactly how many dollars you will get for your euros, I suggest you think about using a different bank or bureau de change. Gandalf61 (talk) 12:29, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Yukio Mishima's grandfather

The author Yukio Mishima's grandfather was 平岡定太郎, former Governor of Fukushima and Governor-General of Karafuto. But what is the reading of his first name (定太郎)? Our English article and several biographies (of Mishima) give it as Jōtarō, the Japanese article on the man himself as Sadatarō, and some sites, like this info page on his grave (that the Japanese article links to), as Teitarō. All of these are possible readings, of course, but what is the right one? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Akmoilan (talk • contribs) 22:25, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

You could try asking at the Language desk; at least one native speaker hangs out there and I'm not sure whether any do here (I know native fluency isn't much help when it comes to Japanese names, but growing up in Japan might be). You could also inquire on the Japanese Wikipedia about this edit. They have an English-language help page (ja:Wikipedia:Chatsubo for Non-Japanese Speakers). -- BenRG (talk) 23:32, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

May 21

What is cultural assimilation?

What is cultural assimilation? Does this means that person or group is joining that ethnic group? Jet (talk) 02:00, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Cultural Assimilation is getting people of another culture to behave like the dominant culture. This has nothing to do with ethnicity. You cannot lose your ethnicity anymore than you can lose your skin color. For example: A Japanese ethnic person in Hawaii can behave like the dominant American culture and not able to speak a single word of Japanese language (except pronounce his own japanese name). 202.168.50.40 (talk) 02:43, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

That's race, not necessarily ethnicity. With ethnicity, there needn't be a recognisable physiological difference, (i.e. Irish/English) - in that case, it'd be quite easy for someone to drop their previous culture and start self-identifying as the dominant ethnicity. Ninebucks (talk) 18:09, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

'ey brah, you go beach? We get slippers! Hawaiians have such a fun local dialect. It takes a while before you're no longer considered haole, but I've seen people of all ethnicities who were more "Hawaiian" than their original ethnicity anymore. It's a great example of assimilation. — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 17:23, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Patterms, motifs and xxx

I am doing some translation work. I need information on the components of patterns in Art. I know that patterns are made up of motifs arranged in a structured and repetitive manner. However, there is something called xxx that make up the motifs. So, many xxx arranged make up a motif and many motifs make up a pattern. What is xxx? In Malay, the term is pola, which does not have the same meaning as pola in language learning.Thanking you in advance.Fahmi05 (talk) 08:24, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

A rheme or focus? The piece of pattern which is repeated is a tesselation. Have you seen our article, Pattern? It refers to "element" which sounds closer somehow, Julia Rossi (talk) 09:38, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Element is what I would suggest, too. SaundersW (talk) 16:35, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

President Sfeir ?

Look at this : a Lebanese super archbishop is meeting with President Bush while Lebanon is in the middle of a political crisis. [6] At 87, the Patriarch has a huge political influence, to the point that he frequently meets with foreign leaders, and advises his countrymen in a time of confusion. Could he be considered to be a kind of de facto president ? 69.157.239.231 (talk) 09:24, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

No. Sfeir is patriarch of the Maronite Christians, who constitute about one fifth of the population. His sectarian views (he said "Let the Muslim vote for Muslims, and let the Christians vote for Christians", he opposes marriages between Muslims and Christians, and he called for amnesty for the collaborators of the SLA) make him not very popular with the rest of the population. DAVID ŠENEK 12:40, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Lebanon has enough problems of competing authorities. The last thing it needs is another de facto president. Ninebucks (talk) 18:13, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Quote about rhythm in the arts other than music...

Someone - a philosopher? a poet? - made a comment that rhythm is essential to all the arts, not just music. Can anyone tell me who, and give me the quote?

Thanks Adambrowne666 (talk) 10:38, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Can't give you a name or reference so no real answer, but rhythm in visual art is a generally recognised and taught principle of visuality; given in a simplified glossary here[7] (not really interesting, but all I could find). Cubism is the clearest illustration off top of head – apart from the Greeks, could it have been said by a contemporary art analyst at the time, say Picasso or Braque? Julia Rossi (talk) 11:05, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

In respect of visual art, the notion of rhythm is also important to Futurism and Vorticism. But the comment as quoted is probably too vague to have a distinct point of origin. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 11:17, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

In De Musica Augustine defined rhythm as the basis of reason as conveyed by our senses: "We must therefore acknowledge, that in the pleasure of the senses, what pertains to reason is that in whch there is a certain rhythmic measure". He wrote several chapters on this, exemplifying rhythm in architecture, painting, and all temporal activity, be it visual, literal, spiritual, and so forth. Unfortunately, I only found a free Latin version of De Musica online. But I think you will find quite a bit there and in De Ordine too perhaps, if you can get your hands on a translation. ---Sluzzelin talk 15:11, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

There is also a rhythm of storytelling which is a useful concept in the stage, movies and most other narrative arts. Bartlett Sher was on PBS talking about it last night, but I don't have any other references for you. DJ Clayworth (talk) 17:31, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Wonderful, thanks, all - St Augustine may have been who I was thinking of, thanks yet again, Sluzzelin. Adambrowne666 (talk) 08:13, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Maitlands and the crown

Please help. Why did the Scottish Maitland family, later earls of Lauderdale, both support the Reformation and yet end as among the most enduring adherants of Mary Queen of Scots? Is it correct to describe John Maitland of Lethington, chancellor to James the sixth, as the Scottish Machiavelli? Need this information for a project. Thank you very much —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.147.184.187 (talk) 11:30, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Supporting the reformation of the church and supporting the legal and hereditary ruler of your country are not mutually exclusive; people are inspired to do all sorts of things by faith, honour, loyalty, religious idealogy, political persuasion, or personal ambition. Understanding personal motives can be hard at this distance, but historians attempt to piece things together. It is worth reading Scottish Reformation for background. William Maitland of Lethington will tell you of Mary's Secretary of State, and show just how complex his support for both church and Queen were. While he supported reform of the church, he resisted the extremes of John Knox; he was also implicated in the murder of David Rizzio. His brother, John Maitland, 1st Lord Maitland of Thirlestane, was Chancellor of Scotland. Is he like Niccolò Machiavelli? Read those pages and see what you think. Gwinva (talk) 00:17, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

France and Hanoverian succession

How did changing relations with France after the Glorious Revolution of 1688 contribute to the Hanoverian succession in Britain in 1714? (Yes this is an assignment but I'm really stuck!) I believe this question has something to do with William III's dislike of Louis XIV and how he fought him in the war of the league of Augsburg and the war of Spanish Succession. I think that the question is getting at how France crumbled in this period and how this removed the threat of France helping restore the exiled Jacobites. Any suggestions would be great and please tell me if you think I'm approaching the question at the wrong angle. Thanks Richie1001 (talk) 11:31, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

It's often forgotten that King James II was the son of Henrietta Maria of France and thus a cousin of King Louis XIV. When James fled, his friend and cousin Louis, arguably the most powerful monarch in Europe, became his principal supporter, with the aim of restoring him (or, after his death in 1701, his son James Francis Edward Stuart) as the Catholic monarch of a friendly power. As well as supporting James in the Williamite war in Ireland, Louis gave him the use of the Château of Saint-Germain-en-Laye (pictured), which became the seat of the Jacobite court in exile. Of course, this was a period of war between England and France (see Nine Years' War and War of the Spanish Succession), and James and his supporters were allied with the Catholic enemies of James's Protestant daughters, Mary II and Anne, and Mary's husband, William III. This, by the way, was the most immediately significant outcome of the Glorious Revolution, shifting England from a period of good relations with France under Charles II and James II to an alignment with the Dutch Republic against France. When Louis settled for peace by signing the Treaty of Utrecht in 1713, one of the Treaty's stipulations was that France was to expel James's son and heir, whom Louis had proclaimed James III, from France. After the failure of the Jacobite rising of 1715, in which the Stuarts had little real support from the continent, the Jacobite court settled in Rome. Xn4 17:07, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

And now, of course, your question... the Jacobite contention for the thrones of the three kingdoms was deeply divisive in all of them and was seen as a terrible threat to future peace and security, but so long as James Francis Edward Stuart held to the Roman Catholic faith, and so long as he was living in great state in France and closely allied to the French, with whom the three kingdoms were at war, there was really little alternative to sticking with the Act of Settlement 1701. In beginning our article on the Old Pretender's sister Louisa Maria Teresa Stuart, I included this interesting comment on her death in 1712. William Legge, 1st Earl of Dartmouth, wrote of the Princess's death: "The queen [Anne] shewed me a letter wrote in the king of France's own hand, upon the death of her sister; in which there was the highest character that ever was given to any princess of her age. Mr. Richard Hill came straight from the earl of Godolphin's... to me with the news, and said it was the worst that ever came to England. I asked him why he thought so. He said it had been happy if it had been her brother; for then the queen might have sent for her and married her to prince George, who could have no pretensions during her own life; which would have pleased every honest man in the kingdom, and made an end of all disputes for the future."

Richard Hill of Hawkstone was probably out on a tangent with this thought, but it will give you some flavour of how informed people like him thought. Xn4 17:48, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your help but I would like to ask you however do you think the changing relations with France after 1688, (that is going from a Anglo-French alliance under James II into an anti-French Anglo-Dutch alliance under William III as you explained) contributed to George of hanover becoming King in 1714? Do you think I should be talking about the war of league of Augsburg AKA nine years war and the war of spanish succession (as this brought about the demise of France) in my assignment? I'm quite confused as you can tell! In case you are in need of clarification the wording of the question is 'To what extent were changing relations with France mainly responsible for the Hanoverian Succession?' Thank you I can assure you your help is much appreciated! Richie1001 (talk) 21:00, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

It's an awkward question, but yes, you need to refer to both wars. The main reason for the changing relations with France was the fall of King James II in what we now call the Glorious Revolution. The spark which kindled the Glorious Revolution was that James II had acquired a new son and heir who, with two Roman Catholic parents, was sure to be brought up in that faith, so the Anglicans and dissenters could no longer look forward to a Protestant succession. Although the 'Glorious Revolution' is so called, the name of Revolution was given to it post facto, the immediate reality of it being a successful Dutch invasion of England, led by William of Orange and his wife Mary (James II's eldest daughter and recently displaced heir). Why were the Dutch willing to spend a huge amount in equipping a force to invade England? In theory, to come to the assistance of English Protestants. But what was also in it for them was the prospect of gaining a strong new ally against France. The Jacobites, in rallying around James II in exile in France, who was allied to Louis XIV, necessarily became counter-revolutionaries. So long as war between Great Britain and France continued, the alignment of the Jacobites made the Hanoverian succession necessary to preserve the strategic status quo, and of course the careers of all the leading public men of the three British kingdoms, not to mention the Protestant ascendancy itself. High stakes, indeed. Xn4 21:27, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

European Left Pro-Iran ?

In France, the Réseau Voltaire is known for its links with the Hezbollah. Many active members of the Socialiste Party and the German Social-democrat Party are known for having a stance of neutrality in the Middle East conflicts involving Shia activists. Is their a significant sector in European public opinion whom, because its either anti-american and/or anti-zionist politics, would grudingly support the so-called Mollah Régime in Tehran ? 69.157.238.199 (talk) 13:22, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Depends what one infers by "grudgingly supports". I think most people in the world "grudgingly support" any regime as long as they do not start an unprovoked war with anyone else. But if you just mean whether there is any significant active support here for the current regime in Iran, whether from the left or right then I think the answer is no. DanielDemaret (talk) 14:06, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

It is important not to confuse being against attacking Iran militarily and being "pro-Iran". Many on the left in both Europe and the United States think that it would be a mistake to attack Iran militarily not only because of the lives that would be lost, but also because the attack would be likely to fail and/or provoke a larger and very damaging regional conflict. On the other hand, most on the left in both Europe and the United States are critical of Iran's Shia theocracy and would prefer a political system that offered more democracy and more equality for women and ethnic and religious minorities. Most leftists, however, don't think that a military attack on Iraq is likely to bring a more democratic system to Iran; on the contrary, some have argued, it would likely strengthen the regime now in power. There is a difference between opposing a military attack and supporting a repressive regime. Marco polo (talk) 16:00, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Speaking as an European, I'm hardly a big fan of Iran. Their human rights situation, just to pick one aspect of their society, is appalling. But I'm certainly not going to be happy about an attack against them, particularly by the United States. There are numerous reasons for this, but frankly, the last time the US took such an action, it was taken on blatantly false premises (those weapons of mass destruction have yet to turn up) and it's one that has resulted in vast civilian casualties. I'm not saying that Saddam Hussein was a nice guy, obviously; the guy was a human turd. But as our article on the Casualties of the Iraq War states, we're talking about a million -- a million -- dead people here, the vast majority of whom are civilians. That's a body count that reaches a level so ridiculous that even if these estimates were exaggerated by, oh, 50%, it would still be about a tenth of the entire population of my home country. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that this is not the kind of a thing that discourages interest in fanatical terrorism. I don't mean to soapbox here, and I apologize if this comes off like that; my point is that, as an European, as much as I dislike Iran, I have absolutely no faith that the people living there wouldn't get screwed up just as badly as the people in Iraq, and I think it would just make the overall situation that much worse. To me, and to most people I know who share this view (and I know a bunch), it's not really a question of being anti-American or pro-Iran. That's how a lot of people want to frame it, but it's not at all what the argument is about. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 05:32, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Before the current Iraq war, anyone who refuted the various arguments for going to war was painted as supporting Saddam's regime (example). I don't know about Europe, but the same line of reasoning is brewing in the States now (though a Democratic presidency would end it, I imagine). --Sean 17:40, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

There is certainly an element of the left that is sympathetic to anyone who is against the Western establishment, including the Iranian regime. I read that one of the women behind the "no nukes" movement in the UK in the 80s is now supporting Iran's "right" to nuclear energy. During the Israel-Hezbollah war, there were leftists in the UK, as well as Canada and the US, who chanted pro-Hezbollah slogans and at least a few with Hezbollah flags and/or shirts. These are the same people who support Fidel Castro and Hugo Chavez. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 03:00, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Smoking in Public vs. Kissing in Public

On the basis of anti-smoking laws, could a governement decide to limit other questionable public pratices such as swearing in public, kissing in public, hugging in public ? 69.157.238.199 (talk) 14:58, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Establishing the equivalent of secondhand smoke for kissing would be an interesting challenge. — Lomn 15:29, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

I really doubt any sane government would ban hugging in public.... That being said, yes, a government could very well limit other public practices like swearing, kissing, and even hugging in public, but things like that will probably not go very well. But unless swearing, kissing, and hugging causes everyone undeniable harm, there's probably not much basis to go on. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 16:35, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

At least in the united states, although smoking bans may be motivated by social stigma, they are justified under OSHA regulations. So unless you can argue that public displays of affection are detrimental to health, no, governments can't use smoking laws to set this kind of precedent. Of course, there have actualy been a slew of arrests in the united states for public swearing, particularly in florida. I think because it was performed in the presence of minors the cursers were charged for corruption of youth or something stupid and unwarranted like that. I'm fairly certain that some are all of the acts you suggested are illegal in a variety of religious states like turkey and iran. --Shaggorama (talk) 18:33, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Note: Turkey is very secular and has no such laws, before we start a conflict here :-) Fribbler (talk) 18:38, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Note that some (we could even say "many") U.S. state and local laws prohibit nudity. If that's not covered under first amendment rights, can it be argued that public displays of affection are? Of course, anti-nudity laws are widespread and have been well established for a long time. Even if it would be difficult to challenge them now it seems like similar laws against the public display of affection might be very difficult to put into place. Of course, there may be such laws in some places; there are some very weird laws out there at all different levels of governance (see sodomy laws in the United States, for example). --Prestidigitator (talk) 04:20, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Singapore has outlawed spitting in pubic and chewing gum in public. Corvus cornix_talk 21:23, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

I had the impression that Singapore banned spitting on the streets for public hygeine reasons (?) but don't know justification for not chewing gum. Julia Rossi (talk) 23:55, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Julia Rossi, chewed gum is one of the most difficult substances to clean up, and it immediately attracts other dirt on top it it. Prior to drying, gum gets caught on the bottom of shoes and under tires, spreading it even further. When gum is left on the ground, on the street, under desks, chairs, on subway poles, walls, etc, it's ugly and filthy.

The costs associated with cleaning up discarded gum are astronomical, coupled with the labor-intensiveness of it.

I have been to both Singapore and Hong Kong, and when compared with other large cities in many parts of the world, these two places had some of the cleanest streets, sidewalks, subways, etc that I have ever seen. One large part of that cleanliness comes from an attitude of respect for others, respects for property, personal/collective pride and highly-effective home training. The other part is their governments' stand against littering, graffiti, vandalism, etc. I hope this has been helpful. Magnet For Knowledge (talk) 01:17, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

? I left out the word "their" for their justification for it, is all, not implying it's okay to chew all the gum you can so that it's the blob that ate New York or such. Thanks for all the extra stuff that I am aware of, which doesn't mean it's banned in other countries, just expensive to deal with. So for the Singapore thing, I suspect there's more to it which I personally do not want to go into because it's not about the question, just a reflection on the post immediately above –– the ability for a government to enforce such a ban in that context seems relatively rare across the board and indicates the political spectrum point inhabited by the Singapore government. I grew up in Singapore btw, but thanks for your efforts to educate and inform me out of the blue like that, Julia Rossi (talk) 09:00, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Of course, Singapore is missing out on this Bubblegum Alley Adambrowne666 (talk) 19:33, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Wow. I'd never ehard of that. that's pretty disgusting. Way to go Cali. --Shaggorama (talk) 20:52, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

In December last year South Africa passed legislation under the Sexual Offences Act that prohibits kissing in public between people under 16, among a slew of other offences. Of course this is hardly likely to be enforceable. Zunaid©® 08:44, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Work as a librarian

I am currently in the process of finishing my BA in history and then was thinking of pursuing a masters in library science and was wondering what it is like being a librarian - what do the daily duties include, what sort of jobs can you get a library science degree and how is the job market? Would you recommend being a librarian, what is the good of the job? --Baalhammon (talk) 15:35, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi Baalhammon, we have a Librarian article. Here's a light view of the pros and cons of being a public librarian[8] and then there's kinds of libraries: government, institutional, school, special interest librarians (law, medicine, art etc) and university librarians; there's this[9] to tell you about getting work experience in libraries while you're a student and this on google[10] to pick from on librarian careers. Hope this helps, Julia Rossi (talk) 09:26, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

I took a postgraduate qualification in library science, although I didn't end up going into the profession. My advice would be to try and specialise as much as possible in a particular area that interests you. That is where the best paid, and probably the most interesting jobs lie. The profession has changed markedly since the advent of the internet. Nowadays, people can get all sorts of information for themselves that they used to rely on librarians to get for them. So librarians are having to pick up more specialist skills (including IT skills) in order to survive. And by the way, just in case you're not aware, you're not supposed to post the same question twice on different desks. Another answer was given here. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 09:40, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

No! I read an article on the internet somewhere saying that being a librarian is one of the most stressful jobs - seriously. I expect its the crushing boredom of repeatedly doing the same thing with book after book. See if you can get some kind of job as a assistant librarian to see if you like it. 80.0.107.160 (talk) 01:14, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Jesuit Power in Washington

It is often said that Washington is a city which is strongly influenced by the Jesuitic tradition, most notably at Georgetown and American Univerity. Is it true that many of the reactionary Neo-Conservative Washington politicians are in fact Jesuitees bent on realising the social, political and revolutionary ideas of Pedro Arrupe, the famous Jesuit ? 69.157.238.199 (talk) 16:27, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

No. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 16:50, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Second that. But really they are all Jesuits Fribbler (talk) 18:35, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

You might find this map interesting if you want to know about religious influence in the US.

American was a Methodist, not Catholic, institution, and has been basically secular since at least the 60s. You may be thinking of the Catholic University of America, which is a Catholic, albeit not Jesuit, institution. Georgetown is hardly a "neo-con" institution; its faculty includes or has included Anthony Lake, Madeline Albright and Tom Daschle. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 02:46, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Gibbon on Apollonius of Tyana

In David Potter's recent book, I think entitled "Emperors of Rome," there is a quote from Gibbon on the mystical seer Apollonius of Tyana, saying that he may have been a religious visionary or a complete nutter, and we can't tell which. Does anyone know where this can be found? Is it in the Decline and Fall? Regards, and t.i.a., 203.221.127.102 (talk) 17:44, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

You can search some of Gibbon's works online – doing so yielded this footnote from The Decline and Fall: "the fables related of Apollonius of Tyana, were frequently opposed to the miracles of Christ; though I agree with Dr. Lardner, (see Testimonies, vol. iii. p. 253, 352,) that when Philostratus composed the life of Apollonius, he had no such intention." The link is here. – is this what you're looking for? WikiJedits (talk) 20:30, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

It is indeed from the The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire: "Vopiscus (in Hist. August. p. 217) gives us an authentic letter and a doubtful vision of Aurelian. Apollonius of Tyana was born about the same time as Jesus Christ. His life (that of the former) is related in so fabulous a manner by his disciples, that we are at a loss to discover whether he was a sage, an impostor, or a fanatic." That's the whole of footnote r in Volume I, Chapter XI. Xn4 20:51, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

That "that of the former" is pure Gibbon; he must have smiled to himself a lot as he wrote. Deor (talk) 16:38, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks to you all. I can't believe I would have missed the humour in that if Deor hadn't pointed it out :). 203.221.126.247 (talk) 08:39, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Loaning your campaign a few million

What's the difference between donating to a campaign vs. loaning to a campaign and then that campaign defaulting?

If I understand right, there are limits to how much an individual can donate to a campaign. But what prevents an individual from loaning millions to a campaign even when there is no guarantee that the campaign is ever going to be able to pay you back? Isn't that a bit of a loophole? Particularly if you are loaning millions to your own campaign? — Sam 17:49, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Donations come from people outside the campaign. The limit on those (in the US; I'm assume that's what this is referring to) is $2300. You can only loan to your own campaign. That money comes from just your regular bank account. This makes it so you can use your own money to campaign, and I don't believe there is a loan limit. That's basically how the Romney campaign worked. He didn't fundraise well, but he's a bazilionaire. Paragon12321 (talk) 04:13, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

"You can only loan to your own campaign." I don't believe that's correct. After all, the Clinton campaign is about $20 million in debt, with about $10 million coming from her own pocket. Therefore, $10 million is coming from somewhere else. — Sam 17:10, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, surely that other ten million bucks could be on credit? I may be completely off base here, but if her campaign is, say, renting office space or whatever, it could well be that they have made an agreement that they will pay for it later, with the assumption that they will either cover that with future campaign donations, or, if that money never materializes, with Senator Clinton's own money. What with her husband apparently having earned around $40 million from public speaking in 2007 alone and the senator herself having made pretty good money from her autobiography (the advance alone was $8 million, and it's been selling like hotcakes all over the world), it wouldn't be at all unreasonable to assume that regardless of whether she wins or loses, the Clintons are going to be good for it. (It's not like these are their only sources of income, either.) A lot of organizations end up with very generous due dates all the time for various reasons; I don't see any practical reason why a presidential campaign couldn't do the same. Unless, of course, there's some law that forbids that. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 21:40, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Ok, but let's forget Sen. Clinton for the moment. I, Joe Schmoe, run for president. You, my friend, want to donate a lot of money to me, but aren't allowed to donate more than $2300.

However, you own office space. You let me use, on credit, $10 million worth of office space and hours. My campaign fails, I drop out, and default on my loan.

Haven't you now, essentially, donated $10 million to my campaign? — Sam 15:10, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

I suppose so. In any case, the law would probably require us to make a clear contract that determines what you are expected to pay me for the services and/or office space I provide, and even if the law doesn't require that per se, you would want that anyway, because otherwise it could be construed as an illegal donation. (For the same reason, I'm not going to give $10 million worth of support to you for $10 000 -- I can make you a good deal, but not an unreasonable one, unless we both want to get in legal trouble.)

Now, seeing as I'm your friend and support your campaign, I'm willing to let you take your time with the payment, but ten million clams is a lot of money, so I probably wouldn't give you the credit in the first place unless I knew that you're good for it. But let's say that I was an idiot and knew that you don't have that kind of money, but made the deal anyway. This very interesting Slate article explains that a under campaign finance law, a campaign needs to pay up what it owes, unless the candidate -- in this case, you -- is the one who's being owed the money. This means that you would need to go out and get $10 million worth of donations from people who have yet to donate the $2300 maximum to you, or loan the campaign the money it needs to pay me what it owes me. You could go out collecting donations even after election day -- and man, that's got to be humiliating. If I was willing to go for it, you could even say that hey, you're running again in four years, so would please I let you pay me back the money from the next campaign's donations? And since I support you, I might say yes, but legally, you would apparently do have to pay me back that ten million bucks, one way or another, sooner or later.

Unless you actually were completely unable to raise the ten million dollars either in donations or from your own pocket, in which case your campaign might actually go bankrupt. Most serious presidential candidates in the United States tend to be so loaded that they're going to be able to pay off debts like that -- if not right off the bat, then at least in the coming years, bit by bit. But apparently you can't just say "oh, it's my campaign's problem, and I'm not running any more, so that's that." Nope, if your campaign owes, in the end, you owe. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 16:19, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I see what you're saying. Particularly the idea that if the loan is fishy, then it could be called illegal. If you "loan" my campaign $10 million while knowing that there's no way that I'm good for it, or if you let me use $10 million worth of services for $10 thousand, then someone might start asking questions. I would also assume that a loan to a campaign would have to start accruing interest? Otherwise I could loan you $10 million, you earn a few thousand on interest from it and give me back the $10 million, and now I have essentially donated a few extra thousand to your campaign. — Sam 16:27, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

I have no idea how interest works out here, but I would imagine that your average campaign doesn't leave the money sitting around long enough for any interest worth a mention to be collected. Also, I think magnitudes come into play here -- unless there's reason to suspect deliberate foul play, I don't think anyone cares about a couple of thousand dollars one way or another in interest, as long as the play with the $10 million is properly and honestly accounted for. I doubt there's anything illegal or questionable about that; if you give me the money, I can use it on my campaign as I see fit -- as long as I don't take out those thousands of dollars of interest and use them on something other than legitimate campaign expenses, it should be fine. After all, it's not like it's your decision or under your power to give me the extra money the interest may produce. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 17:15, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

tax avoidance

Someone told me that in Australia, people say that if you earn over $1 million a year and pay any tax at all, you don't know how to manage money. How is it that people on such large incomes can avoid tax so easily? What, in basic substance, are the key loopholes, or types of loopholes? thanks in advance. 203.221.127.102 (talk) 17:52, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

I wonder if it comes from the late Kerry Packer who reputedly paid 1% tax and believed you shouldn't donate unwittingly to the government through taxes (as in not paying any more than you have to). I'd like to know what his accounting bill was, but that's probably written off as well. Julia Rossi (talk) 23:59, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

PS, found this from the Guardian[11] which shows that one of the loopholes is connections. Packer's funeral was even at the taxpayer's (non-millionaires?) expense. Julia Rossi (talk) 00:03, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Two of the biggest tricks used by the rich are offshore investment (which in certain circumstances can be part of an illegal tax avoidance scam, as many high-profile Australians recently found out), and avoiding actually having much "actual" income, instead getting most of what you need from money invested in your company (where the company tax rate is much lower than the income tax rate) - so technically you don't own that yacht, the company does, although you may have to pay fringe benefits tax to keep it. Confusing Manifestation(Say hi!) 06:53, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Tax avoidance, of course, is perfectly lawful, and if governments leave such loopholes it would be astonishing if they weren't well used. As Lord Clyde, Lord President of the Court of Session, said in Ayrshire Pullman Motor Services and Ritchie - v. - IRC (1929) 14 TC 754, "No man in the country is under the smallest obligation, moral or otherwise, to arrange his legal relations to his business or property so as to enable the Inland Revenue to put the largest possible shovel into his stores." Xn4 10:23, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Tax systems are generally unfair and a mess because the way they evolve, governments fiddle with the systems but do no overhaul them. The main aim of governments is to keep the economy on a steady keel. Meanwhile the rich are willing to use their money to buy political influence, which means that politicians are unwilling to close loopholes, or worse willing to create them. They are also able to employ accountants whose job it is to exploit loopholes. Tiddly pop (talk) 11:58, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

There are two general types of tax avoidance "loopholes" - classification and timing.

A "classification" loophole is really the government's own fault. For whatever reason (public good, responding to lobbyists, etc), the government allows different incomes and expenses to be treated differently. Some schemes contrive to make one type of income look like or become another type, so that it fits under a concession. For example, to take advantage of agricultural subsidies, a scheme might invest your money in an agricultural scheme, which, if properly structured, is not much riskier than whatever you were doing it before. However, because the income is now agricultural income, you might get advantageous tax treatment. The same principle operates for trusts, and more remotely, legitimate off-shore schemes (domestic income reclassified as offshore income).

A "timing" loophole uses the fact that most tax systems try to match up income and expenses, and that there are differential tax rates on different income brackets. Let's say you are earning $200,000 this year, but know you will probably be earning less next year. The progressive tax system means (say) you pay 30% tax on your first $100,000, but 50% tax on your later $100,000, then it would be great for you if you can declare that later $100,000 next year instead of this year - on average, you might end up paying less tax. If you set up, for example, some types of business investment schemes, you might be able to recognise your expenses now, but defer recognition of your income until later.

Note that these are all more-or-less legitimate loopholes if done properly, and take advantage of favourable provisions in the tax law. By contrast, not declaring your income, or money laundering, are illegal and operate outside the scope of the tax system itself. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 01:10, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for those answers, especially PalaceGuard's. It still isn't completely clear how they get away with it, but now I understand the general idea. The "timing" one sounds like they would eventually have to pay the piper anyway. 203.221.126.247 (talk) 09:47, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Old accountant's joke: What's the difference between tax avoidance and tax evasion? Five years. BrainyBabe (talk) 17:33, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

World Heritage site?

Which was the first World Heritage site? 62.136.206.143 (talk) 17:57, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

See this. Seems that there were a number of them on the first list (I had suspected they wouldn't start with just one). Also see World Heritage Site. Fribbler (talk) 18:31, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Distribution Restriction

This question was originally posted at WP:RD/S. I have moved it here in the hopes that you folks may have some input The comment in question can be found at the bottom of page 4 of this document. --Shaggorama (talk) 18:52, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

In the first reference sited by the article on spinosad there is the following statement "DO NOT DISTRIBUTE THIS TECHNICAL BULLETIN IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK." What is the reason behind this statement? 71.100.14.205 (talk) 14:58, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

That is really odd! I'd say it's a matter of law in New York State. Perhaps the legal eagles at the humanities desk could help? I for one would really like to know. Fribbler (talk) 20:26, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

That is a bit strange - I checked, and spinosad is listed as a permitted pesticide by the NYS Dept of Environmental Conservation (here's the document (warning - large PDF). -Bmk (talk) 00:22, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

My guess is some of the claims, or 'information' contained in the bulletin are illegal under NY State law, or that something which should be in such a bulletin according to New York state law, is not Nil Einne (talk) 13:18, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Makes sense. It might be interesting to call Dow AgroSciences and see if you can reach someone who knows. Or send a letter to their legal department, maybe. --Anonymous, 21:00 UTC, May 22, 2008.

Ravel had three arms?

File:Ravel - Pavane for a Dead Princess (impossible part).jpg

Excerpt in question

Near the end of Pavane pour une infante défunte for solo piano, there's a part that I can't figure out how to finger, because it seems impossible to play as written. Did Ravel have three arms or what? Could an experienced pianist please give me a note-by-note fingering of the first few beats here? How the heck do you play it? —Keenan Pepper 20:18, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

I think the top line (the soprano line) is the song itself. The parts are clearly separate, so it's either what the singer sings or a duet. I'm a grade-8 pianist and I know I could never play that! It's like a full score to aid the pianist, as pianists don't "count" like a violinist does, for example. PeterSymonds (talk) 20:27, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm an amateur pianist, so don't trust anything I say, but I think that you can extend the arpeggiated chords in the bass clef to include the lower notes in the treble. You may want to ask User:Antandrus, since I believe he has a music major and is a professional pianist. bibliomaniac15 22:42, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

The only truly "impossible" bit (except for pianists with pathologically wide hand spans, such as Rachmaninoff) is the opening chord. I'd regard the D in the treble clef as part of the arpeggiated chord in the bass, and play it with the left hand with the second finger crossing over. Don't be in a rush to play the arpeggio in mathematically strict time. The rest is manageable as written, although it needs practice. The trick with practising any new piece is to play it very slowly, even uncomfortably slowly, at first, and gradually build up to the appropriate speed. -- JackofOz (talk) 23:03, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Jack's right on, as I'd expect.  :) Since the first chord is arpeggiated anyway, you don't have to play the treble clef D and G simultaneously, even if you're a freak like me who has huge hands. (11th is my limit). I'd play it exactly as Jack would. Antandrus (talk) 23:59, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for the compliment, Antandrus. (My limit is a 10th, so I guess that lets me off the "freak" hook. You're on your own there, pal.  :) -- JackofOz (talk) 02:48, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

There's a recording of the piece at Pavane pour une infante défunte. The passage in question occurs at about 4'4", and the pianist seems to play it pretty much as Jack says. I suppose an alternative would be to arpeggiate the D and G with the right hand. The article also mentions that there's piano roll recording by Ravel himself that is available on CD. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 11:12, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Russian religion before Christianity?

Can someone tell me about the religious beliefs and practices of the Russian people before the majority of them were converted to Christianity in the ninth century, or direct me to articles about such? I'm looking for more detail (e.g. what specific gods were worshipped? what types of practices were there?) than one-word answers like "paganism". —Lowellian (reply) 21:05, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Paganism? :-) This article:Slavic mythology has a large section on pre-christian religion in the slavic countries Fribbler (talk) 21:15, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! That's what I'm looking for. —Lowellian (reply) 21:26, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Take a look at Chernobog and Perun. Corvus cornix_talk 21:33, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

May 22

OPEC/economics question

I've just read in an article that: "with oil at $200 a barrel, OPEC could potentially buy Bank of America in one month worth of production, Apple computers in a week and General Motors in just three days." Is that true? Thanks for information.--AlexSuricata (talk) 00:53, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

According to OPEC, they produce 30,451,000 barrels of oil a day. At $200 a barrel, that's $6,090,200,000 (six billion) a day. I'm not exactly sure how you would define "buying". Maybe how much it would cost to buy a majority share? I wouldn't know how to determine that. Paragon12321 (talk) 04:06, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Also, that assumes that the 200$/barrel prices are pure profit; one of the most common arguments for high gas prices is that oil companies require them to continue exploration, extraction, and development which are very costly. --Haemo (talk) 09:24, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

According to bloomberg.com, General Motors' market cap was $10.7billion, so it would take two days (assuming demand doesn't decrease). Note also that the number of days (only) doubles if the oil price is $100 and here's a frightening headline: Oil Rises Above $135 as OPEC Says It's Powerless to Stop Rally. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 14:32, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

youtube etc

there are many pirate copies of many songs posted in youtube. Even though we may not get into legal trouble by watching those videos, will we get bad karma and because of that suffer in the next birth or later in this birth? Or is it that music piracy is not a big sin? or is it a big sin? how do music owners think? do music companies and music artists serious about piracy? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.92.126.55 (talk) 00:59, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

That's a lot of questions. The answers to the first few questions depend which religion, if you have one at all, you believe in and your interpretation of its rules. I'd need more information to answer those. As for the last two, the RIAA takes piracy very seriously. However, they tend to focus on the pirates, not the people watching them. Paragon12321 (talk) 03:56, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't know if it qualifies as bad karma, but this is my experience: listening to illegal copies of music has often resulted in getting interested in something I didn't know before and, in the long run, buying a lot of music I would not have bought otherwise. So I'm not consumed by guilt. DAVID ŠENEK 09:08, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

If you make decisions that are simply based on fear of suffering as a result of "getting" bad karma, isn't that a sign you've already got bad karma?--Wetman (talk) 18:59, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

In the UAE you would be executed if you publicly say "I'm gay"?

My brother is homosexual and I am really worried. He will go to the UAE; he will not publicly say he's gay but many of his co-workers know it. I don't know all of them and I'm afraid... perhaps; one of them is a bad person and reports him to the Justice. I have read that being homosexual in the UAE is punishable by death. My question is: In the UAE is illegal... being homosexual.. or ..being homosexual and have homosexual sex?. I hope you understand me. Maru-Spanish (talk) 01:59, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

I think I get it. According to LGBT rights in United Arab Emirates, it seems like the law says sodomy, actual sex, not just homosexuality. From what I can tell, it depends from Emirate to Emirate, but sodomy can technically carry the death penalty. However, it seems that this may just be a mistranslation of the Arabic law. It can definitely get jail time. In countries like these, the best defense is discretion. I wish the best for your brother. Paragon12321 (talk) 03:51, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Something related to this actually happened; it was on 20/20, and here is a news story. Adam Bishop (talk) 07:29, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

::Does UAE law apply to foreign workers? Julia Rossi (talk) 07:30, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

This must have been an edcon – only just now read adam's article. Julia Rossi (talk) 09:12, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

If you say "I'm gay", you'd probably get weird stares. Not many people there understand English.--Goon Noot (talk) 23:51, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Murder?

I was just reading Quintinshill rail crash, specifically the part about how the signalmen could have been charged in either England or Scotland. What if events went the other direction? If I shot someone in England, and they staggered across the border into Scotland before expiring, would I be guilty of anything beyond "unlawful discharge of a firearm"? --Serie (talk) 09:15, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

You could be charged with all kinds of offences, including murder, although without knowing exactly what happened we can't say that you would be, or even that you did anything unlawful. One potential crime clearly lies wholly within England. However, "unlawful discharge of a firearm" is a US offense, not an English one. Xn4 10:11, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Ah, but did you shoot him with an arrow, and was he a Scot? [12] Gwinva (talk) 22:16, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

i Want an 3 page article on topic 'Birds-Feathered Friends,

59.94.152.253 (talk) 09:15, 22 May 2008 (UTC)please ans it i have to put it down in my Project File ,any how within 2 days... i cant find it in Wiki.... It should include details about

1-Birds Human Relations in early as well as in modern century

2-Man opininion on Birds

3-their migration

4-Birds feeds

5-Birds Baths

6-Bird Lovers ex:Salim ali from India

7-Their Development

8-Mans love towards them

Thats allll...

Please! ans my ques. within 2 days otherwise i would be beaten by my Teacher for not completing my Homework!!

Sweet questions. I love birds. However, we can't do your homework for you, although we can give you a few pointers. Have a look at our articles on ornithology (the scientific study of birds) and birdwatching, they might help. However, your teacher would also not be very happy if you copy parts of those articles exactly as they appear here into your project file. You should read the articles, follow the links, find as much information as you can and write the answers in your own words. Good luck, --Richardrj ^{talk email} 09:23, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

A couple of more things to look at Domestication, Domestic animal, Hunting, Game (food), Falconry, Cormorant fishing, Pigeon keeping, Peafowl, Dinosaur, Feather. It helps to know that birds are sometimes called "fowl". Busted! at least Bird migration Bird bath and Bird food you could have found right off. For your last question just sit yourself down and think of all the birds in stories, cartoons, movies, songs, video games and on TV. That alone should get you at least a full page.71.236.23.111 (talk) 20:19, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

You should also be aware that, unless your teacher is quite stupid, she will know if you copy your homework from the internet, and you will not get credit for it. Instead, read the articles, take notes about the information you can use, and then write your own article. The process of doing that will help you learn much more, which is the ultimate goal of being in school, right? -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 11:20, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Nineteenth Century China

Does anyone know if the Empress Dowager Cixi and her son Tongzhi attempted any major programme of reform in response to Western inroads? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.77.35.53 (talk) 09:51, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

I know little about them, but please see Empress Dowager Cixi (pictured) and our article Tongzhi Emperor, which says "Tongzhi attempted political reform in the period of the Tongzhi Restoration". If we follow the link to that we read "The restoration, however, which applied "practical knowledge" while reaffirming the old mentality, was not a genuine program of modernization". The source of that statement seems to be Wright, Mary Clabaugh, The Last Stand of Chinese Conservatism: The T'ung-Chih Restoration, 1862 -1874 (Stanford, CA, Stanford University Press, 1957), which you might like to get hold of. Xn4 11:01, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

IIRC there's a good chapter on it in the Cambridge History of China vol 10. (maybe by Wright) A snippet at google for Wright's book is "The major thesis of this book is that not only a dynasty but also a civilization which had appeared to have collapsed was revived to last for another 60 years by the extraordinary efforts of extraordinary men in the 1860's. This was the T'ung-Chih Restoration.." It is very hard to overstate the cataclysmic effects of the Taiping rebellion and other catastrophes of the time, not just western inroads, so something extraordinary was needed to recover from them. Not too sure about that statement above; searching for mentality in Wright at googlebooks yields nothing, but it I think it is roughly right. (It is quoted from here[13] Again, iirc, it coincided with some economic modernization - the introduction of a few more modern capitalistic enterprises like steamship companies, this modernization was only in isolated sectors and took time, but eventually took root. [14] is another web reference. John Z (talk) 11:49, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

How many generals in German Army in 1939

Does anybody know the number of generals in German Army as of 1939 ? I know the number of generals who disagreed with mass murder made by German army in 1939 is alledgedly known, I need to know the full number of generals in the Army as a whole to compare. --Molobo (talk) 10:40, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

All I could find was this site. No count of all the generals and no indication it covers all of them...but it gives an idea of the approximate number. I'd say around 150-200 on the site. Fribbler (talk) 11:39, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Secular schools

Are there any members of the HMC that are explicitly secular? If so, which ones? Tiddly pop (talk) 10:52, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Careful, your first link leads to a disambiguation page. I assume you are referring to the Headmasters' and Headmistresses' Conference. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 11:00, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

One which comes to mind is Sevenoaks School, which claims to be the oldest secular school in the UK, but the full concept of secular education isn't really possible here as it is in some other countries. You might like to look more closely at the overseas members of the HMC. Xn4 11:13, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

What is the largest number for a monarch/Pope in history?

You know, like Louis XVIII? John XXIII? I think these are the largest, at least that I could find, but does anyone know a larger one?209.244.30.221 (talk) 14:01, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

List of popes suggests that John XXIII is indeed the largest number for popes. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 14:07, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Apparently Henry LXXII, Prince of Reuss-Lobenstein-Ebersdorf wins. ---Sluzzelin talk 14:28, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

But note that that family has their own peculiar numbering system which does not indicate 72 previous reigning princes named Henry. Rmhermen (talk) 14:48, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

That is true. Heinrich LXXII's father was Heinrich LI Reuß zu Ebersdorf. From father to son they skipped twenty Henrys. And it was also at number twenty where the popes decided to skip a John. There never was a Pope John XX. ---Sluzzelin talk 16:10, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

These are hilarious. Can you offer a reason why? AndyJones (talk) 21:14, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

No reason, no rhyme for the odd customs of Reuß, but the article on Reuss Junior Line has a bit more on their numbering method and its unusual results. "For example, the sons of Prince Heinrich LXVII Reuss of Schleiz were, in order, Heinrich V, Heinrich VIII, Heinrich XI, Heinrich XIV, and Heinrich XVI." ---Sluzzelin talk 09:43, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

By the way, the article on "the number" you are asking about is monarchical ordinal. It doesn't have any records listed though. ---Sluzzelin talk 16:36, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree that the Reuß example is misleading. To slightly rephrase the question (though this might not be what 209.224 is looking for at all): Which name appears most often in one monarchic line, followed by a different ordinal number, but only counting those rulers who really appear in that line. (In the papal contest, John would still win with 21 popes and 1 Antipope.---Sluzzelin talk 16:53, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

I'll throw in the Kings Louis of France. 17 uncontested kings (I think), plus Louis XVII who died at the age of 10, was imprisoned, and never reigned, and Louis XIX who arguably was king for twenty minutes. "Louis XX" redirects to Louis Alphonse, Duke of Anjou who is not king. Still, every single one of the twenty Louis can be accounted for. ---Sluzzelin talk 17:09, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks to all for answering.209.244.30.221 (talk) 13:31, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

David Ricardo

How many children did he have? MilkFloat 14:03, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Eight, according to the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography. They included three sons, of whom Osman Ricardo and another David Ricardo became members of parliament, while the third, Mortimer Ricardo, served as an officer in the Life Guards and was a deputy lieutenant for Oxfordshire. Xn4 14:25, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

(after ec - guessing it is eight now!) Right, I had a poke around and found this. It's an obituary from the time of his death and says he was survived by seven children but with a note that says one daughter had died a few years earlier and I'm not sure if that's included in the figure, or in addition to it. Fribbler (talk) 14:28, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

It should be 8, I wouldn't expect them to include a child that had died years earlier as one of those having survived him. That's 8 that we know of, but there is always a slight possibility that there were more people don't know about.HS7 (talk) 19:37, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Indeed, cads and bounders all of them back then (twirls moustache) :-)! Plus they may have excluded infant deaths, common at the time. Fribbler (talk) 22:36, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

North Yemen

Why is it that North Yemen was called North Yemen, despite the fact that it is clearly no further north than South Yemen - in fact, the northern-most point of South Yemen is several degrees of latitude further up than North Yemen! Why on earth was this case, and wouldn't the distinction of East/West Yemen made much more sense? Ninebucks (talk) 16:56, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

I think historically "South Yemen" was connected to the port of Aden, and the long eastward extension was more Hadhramaut than Yemen. The Hadhramaut page even says it extends eastward from "Yemen (proper)". There's also something about Hadhramaut was annexed by South Yemen in 1967. Pfly (talk) 18:04, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

I can see two possible reasons: first, the border between the two countries was more nearly east-west than north-south, so it made more sense to describe South Yemen as being on the south side of the border than on the east side. And second, almost all of the population of South Yemen was in its southern part, which is not true for North Yemen. (But, admittedly, almost all of the population of South Yemen was also east of North Yemen's).

Here's a good map showing where the cities are, with an inset in the bottom left corner shows the shape of the former border.

--Anonymous, 17:24 UTC, May 22, 2008, edited later to restore chunk deleted by accident

Check on copyright status of a song?

Where can I see if a song is copyrighted or public domain? And where do I go to license a copyrighted song -- or pay royalties -- or however that works in the music business? Specifically I'm looking for some Christmas music. --70.167.58.6 (talk) 21:53, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Checking whether something is in the public domain is not a terribly easy thing to do—in part because one does not have to register it as being copyrighted. So the goal is to figure out if it is in the public domain, not whether it is copyrighted—if it cannot be unequivocally determined in the public domain, it must be assumed it is copyrighted.

First thing: you need to figure out when the song was first published in one form or another. See this table to see how that is relevant. You can check for copyright renewals in the US Copyright Office here, but the time span you can search for online is limited.

In any case, if you determine it to be copyrighted, you have to figure out who you can license it from. If it is a fairly popular piece usually that means a music syndicate like ASCAP, BMI, or SESAC.

Hope that helps! If at all in doubt, hire a professional trained in IP law to make determinations. What I have outlined above is a basic search approach, and is not at all exhaustive. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 23:56, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your help. Wouldn't it be great if there was an internet site that would do all these things? --70.167.58.6 (talk) 21:59, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Calle Ocho artwork

Does anyone know who painted Calle Ocho? I can't find it so far using google. Spencer^T♦C 23:17, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Googling "Calle Ocho" painting (without the italics) gave me this [15] as the second hit. It's an oil by Ronni Bogaev, done in 1980. If this is not the painting you are looking for, a description of the one you want would be helpful as many painitngs will have the same name. Think of the thousands entitled "Peggy's Cove" for example. ៛ Bielle (talk) 01:42, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

That's it, thanks! Spencer^T♦C 10:51, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

You are welcome. ៛ Bielle (talk) 13:47, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

May 23

Who is KANZO?

I have a series of photos I took of a large Japanese jar; see Image:Imari_Jar_DES.jpg. I'd like to upload the series to Wikimedia Commons, but I'm lost for real information on the artist, listed in the display as KANZO. The image page has pretty much all the information the card on the display (cropped out of the picture) had. Is there enough information here to figure out who made this jar and when they died? Or that the jar itself is old enough that the maker surely died before 1908 or 1938?--Prosfilaes (talk) 00:11, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Could it be that 'kanzo' isn't the artists name? Fribbler (talk) 11:36, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Possibly; [16] has almost the exact text displayed in the library, and it's properly cased for a name there, but it could have been mistranslated somewhere along the way. On the other hand, Kanzo is a Japanese name and it isn't impossible that it really is a name. Either way, the jar isn't old enough to claim a PD-Old on that basis alone.--Prosfilaes (talk) 23:04, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

The three jewels

What is the significance of going for refuge in the Buddha the Dharma and the Sangha in buddhism? According to my understanding taking refuge in the buddha means expressing gratitude for his teaching, taking refuge in the dharma means practicing the buddha's teachings and taking refuge in the Sangha is important as this is how the dharma is spread and passed on. I have already read the article on the three jewels but it's not really what I'm looking for. If anyone could give some reasons why else the refuges are important to buddhists that would be great. Richie1001 (talk) 10:34, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

I suppose you have also read the articles on Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha? I'm not quite sure what you're asking as the three refuges are the three ideals of Buddhism, so they are a prerequisite, and "Buddhism" wouldn't exist without them. You might even say that the Three Jewels are Buddhism. Going for Refuge is the primary act of commitment for all Buddhists. Taking refuge in the Buddha is rather more than expressing gratitude; it means taking that ideal as one to which you aspire, in order to become an ideal human being, embodying the perfection of wisdom and commpassion. As well as practising the teachings, taking refuge in the Dharma means studying and deepening one's understanding not only of the Buddha's teachings but of your own experience and the Four Noble Truths. As for the sangha, in the context of the Three Jewels, this means the Aryasangha: the company of Buddhas and Bodhisattvas (both historical and "archetypal") and the teachers in their lineage, rather than simply one's fellow Buddhists.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 11:10, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply - your information on the buddha was especially helpful. Perhaps I haven't explained myself properly - what i meant to ask was simply why do buddhists take refuge in the buddha the dharma and the sangha? How does it help them? Regards,Richie1001 (talk) 12:55, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Because it engenders commitment and direction. Although we like to think of ourselves as rational beings, ultimately we all go where our emotions and instincts lead us. Buddhists try to refine and direct those emotions and instincts through "Going for Refuge" to the Three Jewels. "Refuge" is a literal translation of "sarana" but IMO it's not a very good metaphor as it can suggest not facing up to reality, whereas facing up to reality is precisely what Buddhism claims to do, whereas our emotions and instincts often make us want to hide from reality.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 16:29, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Arab league

Is this the first that the Arab League ever got a shia muslim as a speaker of Arab Parliament? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.30.202.29 (talk) 14:59, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

As of a couple of weeks ago, the Arab parliament had only ever had one speaker, namely Muhammed Jasim Al-Saqr, and I can find nothing to indicate this has changed since. I don't know his religion, but whatever it is, he's the first. Algebraist 15:15, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

U.S. and Michigan child custody laws

Greetings. Might you be so kind as to provide me with links to useful legal resources in the United States, specifically Michigan? I was wondering about the rights of a child near age of majority who wishes to change her custody arrangements. I understand your disclaimer regarding legal advice but hope you'll still be able to help me.

Thank you, Kalai Eljahn (talk) 15:04, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Michigan Courts site on child custody. Michigan legislature: Child Custody Act of 1970. Legal aid groups in Michigan (cos you really need legal advice). WikiJedits (talk) 15:20, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

A starter for 10...http://www.michbar.org/generalinfo/libraries/selfhelp.cfm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.221.133.226 (talk) 15:20, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

fostering

Does Wikipedia have an article on fostering, as in the historical arrangements of sending your children to be raised in a relative's or other family? Every search I try is taking me back to foster care, an article that is solely about a present-day system for children in state care. Thank you for any pointers! WikiJedits (talk) 15:14, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

This is a guess: Fosterage. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 15:21, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you Zain, that is the idea I meant. That article really needs work, though! I will start by making disambig links to each (foster care and fosterage) from the other. I've had trouble figuring out a brief disambiguation wording; if anyone would like to improve it please do. WikiJedits (talk) 18:47, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Identity documents in the United States

"The de facto official identification card for adults in all states is the driver's license"

What if a U.S. citizen doesn't have a driver's license how can he/she prove his/her age? 18 years-old girl want to do porn, what does she show as a proof of age? 21 years-old person want to buy a beer, what does he show as a proof of age? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.166.221.213 (talk) 16:08, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

A passport would do. You already have found the article that explains identity documents in the United States; presumably, any one of them would do if the bartender accepts them as proof of your identity. In other words, if it looks real and official, has your date of birth and your photograph, and especially if it's a type of a document the bartender is familiar with -- say, a student ID from the local college -- it'll probably do the trick. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 16:26, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Does every U.S. citizen have a passport? What about porn? (section 2257) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.166.221.213 (talk) 18:19, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

No, only about 20% of U.S. citizens have passports -- as explained in the very article you link to in the beginning of your post here. You should go and read it before you ask any more questions about this, because it explains how this works pretty well.

As for porn, it's not unreasonable to tell a young wannabe porn actor or actress that if they want to do this job, they need to have valid ID before it'll happen. I doubt many legitimate producers are going to want to take any chances with that stuff, since nobody wants to become a child pornographer by accident. Traci Lords taught that industry a pretty hard lesson. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 20:11, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

If you don't have a driver's license, you might have a state-issued identity card instead. --Carnildo (talk) 20:02, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Indeed, if you need an ID, you can go to your local Department of Motor Vehicles office and ask for a state ID card instead of a driver's license. There will be a small fee. It will be a state verified piece of identification though which will show your birth date. Dismas|^(talk) 20:05, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

If you don't have a state-issued photo ID, you can't board a plane. Corvus cornix_talk 20:11, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

There are lots of people who don't have driver's licenses—especially those who live in big cities that don't require driving (I know a lot of people born and raised in New York who don't know how to drive). Needless to say there are many other avenues for them to get official identification (for all sorts of things other than porn, usually). --98.217.8.46 (talk) 21:24, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Trying to find a Greek sculpture

Yo I have this greek sculpture on my mind but can't think of the name or the sculptor. I think it's a 4th century or Hellenistic work. It depicts a male athelete, nude, and a woman, clothed (barely, clinging drapery), leaning on the guy's shoulder and chillaxin. 76.106.103.106 (talk) 17:54, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Maybe Orestes and Electra in Naples, [17]? DAVID ŠENEK 18:06, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

That's it. Thank you! 76.106.103.106 (talk) 18:07, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

"Chillaxin"? ៛ Bielle (talk) 21:21, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Chillaxin = destressing with the aid of a finely honed cryogenic scalpel as used by yuppie lumber jacks in the suburban back yards of Ontario. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 21:51, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

From wiktionary: Blend of chill out and relax (see here for the purported coiner). Zain Ebrahim (talk) 21:57, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

and -in' (ing) – coolio? Julia Rossi (talk) 09:25, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks to the neoligic whizzes here. It seems a tautology as you can't "chill out" unless you are "relaxed", and you can't "relax" unless you are "chilled out". And, ZooM, as always, I want a hit of whatever you are smoking. :-) ៛ Bielle (talk) 14:52, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Category for "Monotony"

I was thinking of starting a stub on the common meaning of "monontony" as "repetitive and tedious". But I don't really know what category that would fall under. It's not a feeling like boredom. Would it be a psychological concept? Is there a higher level concept that I haven't found? I think having this is a page that might come in handy for links. Thanks for any help. 71.236.23.111 (talk) 18:26, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, I think it works within psychological and physical labour frameworks. A monotonous job is not simply boring, but requires the repetition of some menial task(s). Maybe something from manual labour could get worked in, though the concepts are not necessarily related per se - a monotonous job could just as easily be non-physical. Before starting the article, try to have something in there that goes beyond a dictionary definition, or the article will be deleted per WP:DICDEF. Matt Deres (talk) 18:50, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Keep in mind that simple dictionary definitions are not allowed on Wikipedia. They are for Wiktionary, if anywhere. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 21:26, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

I wasn't thinking of just putting in a definition. I already have at least one OSHA quote and I bet they're not the only ones that wrote about it. I had just hoped that there was something like "Freud" or an existing psychological definition. There should be something in that kind of literature that links definitions for boredom and monotony. I guess I'll just start it off and see if s.o. finds some more bones. --71.236.23.111 (talk) 23:35, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

What poem am I thinking of?

I seem to remember a poem that contains the line: CONSULT YOUR PHYSICIAN, YOUR PHYSICIAN DESERVES A LAUGH

I thought it was Ogden Nash, but I can't find the lines in any of my Nash books. Let me know if you come up with the title/author.

YES!! I just found it...the poem is called, "MS Found in A Quagmire" whew.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Franelizabeth18 (talk• contribs) 21:40, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

ok, found it....poem is titled "MS Found in A Quagmire". whew, i feel better! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.173.121.178 (talk) 22:10, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Do you have the link? Julia Rossi (talk) 09:23, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

No link to the poem, but here is its ref: Ogden Nash, Poetry, "Ms. found in a quagmire," The New Yorker, October 31, 1942, p. 65, and here is a link to how it may be obtained. SaundersW (talk) 09:39, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Saunders, Julia Rossi (talk) 09:52, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

May 24

knowledge of candidates

It seems that the trend is to leave absolutely no rock unturned when it comes to a piece of knowledge about a political candidate with some very good consequences for the voters such as Cindy McCain releasing her taxes. Is there any way I can find how rampant grade inflation is at the colleges and universities attended by Barack Obama since Harvard is one university that has a long history of notoriety for grade inflation and giving the world by any standard graduates who consider themselves to be elite? 71.100.10.54 (talk) 04:01, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Stuart Rojstaczer's analysis at gradeinflation.com doesn't suggest anything unusual about Harvard's grade inflation in nationwide comparison. According to the scatterplot, the change in GPA at Harvard is close to, but even a bit below the average of 0.146 per decade. And Columbia is in the group of American universities with the lowest grade inflation. ---Sluzzelin talk 05:57, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Now what about grade inflation for the classes? 71.100.10.54 (talk) 12:01, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Who cares? Whether or not Harvard has grade inflation does not indicate whether or not Barack Obama was helped by it or didn't deserve whatever grades he got. Your approach is logically flawed and shows some ignorance of how grade inflation works: just because someone gets an A- at a school with grade inflation does not mean they necessarily got it because of grade inflation. There's no way, barring talking to individual teachers, for you to know anything about that from looking at a transcript. That's the problem with grade inflation, incidentally: you can't distinguish, from a transcript, between genuinely great students and pretty good students. Bad students are usually still pretty easy to spot, based on their class position and because they're still going to get B+s. (I say this as someone who has done a lot of grading at Harvard, and really hates the grade inflation there. In my experience at Harvard all grade inflation really does is increase the number of A-s and B+s, and makes the lowest grades hover around B-. It does not increase the number of As on the whole, those are still reserved for a small percentage.) Additionally, Obama was at Harvard Law School, not Harvard College, where things like grading are totally different (it is a different institution, from the point of view of grading and administration—all of the difference Harvard institutions, like the College, the Law School, the Graduate School, the Medical School, and the School of Government, are pretty autonomous and have their own policies, grading structures, course requirements, etc.; Harvard University is a bunch of different institutions with the same name). When people say Harvard has grade inflation, they usually mean the College. Keep that in mind if you do decide to pursue this fairly silly investigation! --Captain Ref Desk (talk) 17:49, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

LOL... First it's not my approach but the approach of the vast majority of employment offices, which BTW some are so easy to fool that even the Pretender would be amazed, although most employers do care. Same for professors, whether at Harvard or not, especially in the humanities. Second, you make a good point about various divisions at Harvard being autonomous which is one of the reasons you do have to scrutinize. Amazingly computer science at Harvard is probably still at the top, in addition to law. Unfortunately even Harvard has not yet brought the two together by publishing the law in the form of a truth table or polychotomous key. The problem in reference to my question, however, may be how what are called "sympathy" students are graded, i.e., students who have freckles for instance. Third, what is in fact silly is how some people are simply incapable of being serious for any length of time and when life gets over their heads they simply shut down, giggle and feel silly. To such persons everything that requires concentration for more than 2 seconds is silly, but I suppose you will think this analysis silly as well. 71.100.169.132 (talk) 03:10, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Pinching and Dreams

Sitting on my computer at midnight, I think of a lot of stupid things, this time, I wondered, since when have people thought of pinching one's arm to discover whether they are dreaming? As in, how long does this tradition date back? I'd like to read a good article that discusses these superstitions and how long they have been practiced, I am asking specifically about the pinching one, but I'm generally interested and this has gotten me thinking about superstitions and how long ago they came to existence. Does anybody know of anything (accessible online) that discusses this? Oh, and if nobody can make heads or tails of my comment, I'll try to repeat it tomorrow... The Dominator^Talk_Edits 05:43, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately I didn't find anything on the origins of the "Pinch me, I am dreaming" cliché. I don't think this is a superstition though, it just symbolizes a crude reality testing technique. The article on lucid dream might interest you. ---Sluzzelin talk 06:26, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Interesting article, doesn't answer my question, but pretty cool, answered a lot of questions I had before, like the sleep paralysis thing. If you were to guess, how far back would you say the dream- reality check techniques go? Like, do you think people made these connections in Ancient to Medieval times, or is it more of a recent thing (i.e. after some scientific study on dreams was done)? The Dominator^Talk_Edits 06:37, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

An interesting book on this subject is 'Dreams and History: The Interpretation of Dreams from Ancient Greece to Modern Psychoanalysis' (edited by Daniel Pick and Lyndal Roper). Dreams fascinated the ancients as much as they fascinate us today; you mention the Medieval period - have you heard of Piers Plowman? The universal quality of dreams means that it was a heavily written about subject in both science and poetry long before the appearance of the Romantic poets and, later, Freud. Yours, Lord Foppington (talk) 12:21, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Who are these chicks?

Kennedy, Gorbi, and their ladies

Who are these three chicks with the two dudes? The one in the center, from what I remember of her, looks like Mrs. Gorbachov. I'm venturing a guess that the one on the left is Kennedy's current wife, Vicky Reggie. Though I have no idea who the surprised (appalled?) chick on the right is. Dismas|^(talk) 14:33, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

The one in the middle is, as you say, Raisa Gorbachyova. I'm working on the others. PeterSymonds (talk) 14:48, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

My guess is that the woman standing next to Kennedy is his sister Eunice Kennedy Shriver and the woman in yellow is his sister Patricia Kennedy Lawford. ---Sluzzelin talk 15:37, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Seconded. --Milkbreath (talk) 15:45, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, all! Dismas|^(talk) 16:48, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Identify font?

[18], [19], [20], [21]: anyone know it? Thanks! —TreasuryTag—t—c 16:44, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Optima. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 17:19, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Great! Thanks. —TreasuryTag—t—c 17:21, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

art style

What's the name of that Soviet-style art where people are all very blocky looking, from posters? Not Socialist Realism as I understand it. Somewhat Cubist but not abstract. More like this or this (sorry that one downloads automatically) this (which is not actually Soviet), or this WPA poster or this one? --98.217.8.46 (talk) 18:18, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

In the absence of a qualified graphic design historian I'll have a stab at being helpful! Constructivism (art) was that great early Soviet art movement that had significant influence world wide and in the later USSR, even after falling from official favour. I think in your examples and Soviet posters generally we also see the influence of various art movements such as Cubism, Futurism, Surrealism, functionalism and so on. If I had to name the style though, I'd say Art Deco; the all embracing style between the wars that incorporated all sorts of influences to create a machine age aesthetic that tended towards geometric forms. Poster art in particular also tended towards the simple and direct as that suited the medium, the message and printed format. These sites on Art Deco [22] and Soviet [23] poster design have a good little overview. Mhicaoidh (talk) 00:09, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Rumour painted full of tongues

Hi Wikipedia person.

I came across the phrase, Rumour painted full of tongues, in a novel, my interest was piqued and this phrase caused me to enquire further .

Wikipedia informed me that it came from Shakespeare's Henry 4th part 2, the introduction.

Then I went to the Greek/Roman myth area and found Rumour, a figure - robe - painted with tongues holding or blowing a pipe.

Virgil speaks of tongues in the Aeniad.(rumour) Ovid's House of fame mentions FAMA ( rumour)

I wonder if there is any more specific reference to this ROBE, what it was, style, colour and if there is any pictorial imagery existing.

Many Thanks

allegorical ken —Preceding unsigned comment added by Allegorical ken (talk • contribs) 19:06, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Rumour was a common figure in Jacobean masques; cf. Campion's Masque of Squires, 1613, with its Rumour 'in a skin coat full of winged tongues, and over it an antic robe; on his head a cap like a tongue, with a large pair of wings in it'. Halliday, F. E. (1952). "Rumour." A Shakespeare companion 1550-1950. p. 561. OCLC 26369297

Rumour painted full of tongues gives us a Prologue to one of the parts of Henry the fourth; and, says Dr. Dodd, Shakespeare had doubtless a view to either Virgil or Ovid in their description of Fame. But why so? Stephen Hawes, in his Pastime of Pleasure, had long before exhibited her in the same manner,

A goodly Lady envyroned about With tongues of fyre; --

and so had Sir Thomas More in one of his Pageants,

Fame I am called, mervayle you nothing Though with tonges I am compassed all rounde;

not to mention her elaborate Portrait by Chaucer, in the Boke of Fame; and by John Higgins, one of the Assistants in the Mirour for Magistrates, in his Legend of King Albanacte. Farmer, Richard. " An Essay on the Learning of Shakespeare: Addressed to Joseph Cradock, Esq.1767"

—eric 23:47, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Plato and Buddhism

I've read a few studies into the similarities between Plato's ideas and Buddhism. Was there a contact between ancient Greece and the Far East at the time of Plato? Is it possible that Plato was aware of the existence of Buddhism? Aecis^Brievenbus 21:13, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Buddha lived and taught before 400 BC, some years before Plato's birth in about 428 BC. Alexander's famous conquest of Persia and India took place 333-326 BC, a generation after Plato's death in 348 BC. And I believe it wasn't really until Asoka's reign (273 BC to 232 BC) that Buddhism became widely spread/known. However, Buddha drew on thoughts that could also be found in other teachings in his time, and you can be sure there were contacts between India and Greece long before Alexander. There's some discussion of this in Silk Road, see also Royal Road. I can't answer your second question, hopefully someone else will. WikiJedits (talk) 00:55, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

author

who wrote "Naked in the Islands"? I had thought that it was David Sedaris?71.196.82.214 (talk) 21:43, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

He did write Naked (book),a collection of essays including "Naked". Is that what you are looking for? There are a couple of books called "The Naked Island" by Bryna Wasserman and Russell Braddon but I cant find any "Naked in the Islands". Mhicaoidh (talk) 22:39, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Maronite Christians

Is Lebanon the Arab nation that has Maronite population? and are French and English names the ones that Arab Christians in Bilad al-Sham keep because of their former colonizers? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Don Mustafa (talk • contribs) 02:00, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Date pronounciation

Now, we say something like 'its the first of June, 2008'. How did people say the date when Queen Elizabeth Tudor I reigned England? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.221.225.139 (talk) 02:48, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Shigechiyo

Are there any Shigechiyos other than Shigechiyo Izumi? Interactive Fiction Expert/Talk to me 07:19, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

W

Are there any real people named Wario or Waluigi? Interactive Fiction Expert/Talk to me 07:19, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Here's one [24]--Lisa4edit (talk) 08:32, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

If Barr were to carry the state of Georgia..

Given the completely hypothetical situation that Bob Barr or any other third party candidate carry all of Georgia's/any other state's electoral votes and leave the two main party candidates under the threshold of 270, what happens in that case, it gets thrown into the House just like if it were a 269-269 tie?

AlmostCrimes (talk) 08:49, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

AFTER AMERICAN CIVIL WAR

After the end of the US Civil War,what was the most widespread crime/illegality? It was not about slaves, KKK, organized crime, gambling,drinkink,theft, lynching.