Wikipedia:Reference desk/Miscellaneous

Welcome to the miscellaneous section
of the Wikipedia reference desk.

skip to bottom

Select a section:

• Computing
• Entertainment
• Humanities
• Language
• Mathematics
• Science
• Miscellaneous
• Archives

Want a faster answer?

Main page: Help searching Wikipedia

   

How can I get my question answered?

• Select the section of the desk that best fits the general topic of your question (see the navigation column to the right).
• Post your question to only one section, providing a short header that gives the topic of your question.
• Type '~~~~' (that is, four tilde characters) at the end – this signs and dates your contribution so we know who wrote what and when.
• Don't post personal contact information – it will be removed. Any answers will be provided here.
• Please be as specific as possible, and include all relevant context – the usefulness of answers may depend on the context.
• Note:
  • We don't answer (and may remove) questions that require medical diagnosis or legal advice.
  • We don't answer requests for opinions, predictions or debate.
  • We don't do your homework for you, though we'll help you past the stuck point.
  • We don't conduct original research or provide a free source of ideas, but we'll help you find information you need.

Ready? Ask a new question!

How do I answer a question?

Main page: Wikipedia:Reference desk/Guidelines

• The best answers address the question directly, and back up facts with wikilinks and links to sources. Do not edit others' comments and do not give any medical or legal advice.

See also:

• Teahouse
• Help desk
• Village pump
• Help manual

February 2

Super Saver Shipping

Amazon.com often has "Free Super Saver Shipping" when you spend more than $25 that takes forever to start to ship and forever to arrive. My question: what is exactly going on here when they do this? Is it that they just sit on the order a bit to slow it down (and make you want to pay for faster shipping in the future), or is it something about how they ship it from facility to facility? E.g., Is it waiting for a truck to have extra space on it, or something like that? I'm just curious and Googling didn't really turn up much (other than a lot of complaints). Is it just a ploy, or is there more to it? --Mr.98 (talk) 01:04, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Do you order a lot from Amazon? It could be some sort of throttling, à la Netflix. The only reason I ask is because I experience the exact opposite situation: when I order enough for Supersaver usually it comes exactly when I'm told it will come; sometimes it comes even a day or two before the estimated time of delivery. I don't use Amazon very often to begin with, though. Xenon54 / talk / 01:27, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Indeed. You might be suffering from confirmation bias. I can't remember having a problem with Super Saver shipping from Amazon. I as well have found that my order arrives a day or two before they say it will. Dismas|^(talk) 07:17, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

I guess the obvious question is when do you order? Their fast shipping is obviously going to get priority so at a guess, during peak times like near Christmas you would expect free super saver shipping to take significantly longer. However I would have thought they adjust their estimated times accordingly. And there is obviously going to be some aspect of 'when we have space and time' so it's likely to be fairly variable in general. Nil Einne (talk) 09:15, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

I haven't had trouble with Super Saver, but it is slower. It takes many more days to even start to ship, for one thing. My question is whether this has anything to do with how they are shipping it (in a physical or economic sense) or if it is just a means of first trying to get me to add more things to "qualify for super saver shipping", and/or trying to get me frustrated enough with shipping that I'll want to pay for it. I ordered something yesterday; it won't ship until Friday, and it'll probably take a few days after that, according to Amazon's estimate. (I don't order much on Amazon, so I don't think it is throttling.) --Mr.98 (talk) 14:03, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

I have ordered many times from Amazon. Super saver is supposed to be slower than priority shipping, but still quite fast - i.e. less than a week within the continental US and Canada for items in stock. The main cause of delays are whether the items you order are in stock. Often, the estimates on the page about when the item is available (i.e. within 10 to 20 days) are off, but not necessarily in taking longer to arrive. Amazon works with independent distributors for such items, and does not know when a precise item is available; it only knows the average time it takes for the distributor to supply an item it carries. It is possible that the distributor needs to order the item first from another distributor or from the printer/label/etc., lengthening the delay; it is also possible that the distributor has the item in stock and is already making a shipment to the Amazon warehouse at that time and simply slips your item in that shipment, cutting delivery time significantly. In any case, using super saver shipping is advantageous if you're ordering a number of items and do not need to receive them right this minute. It's nothing like third class mail (does it still exist ?), which was cheap but took forever and a day to reach its destination. --Xuxl (talk) 15:57, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm a frequent customer of both Amazon.ca and Chapters.ca (which also has a free shipping option, but always ships your books as they become available, as opposed to Amazon who always groups them together, forcing you to wait until the last book is available). While Amazon's policy is sometimes annoying, I've never had an order exceed the promised delivery time - and have had stuff show up quite a bit earlier as well. I guess I'm a little unclear as to what the complaints are - the wait times are printed right there on the availability screen and remain the same regardless of the shipping option chosen, it's just that getting the item shipped for free means waiting until everything can go in one package, which sounds fair. If you're a real bookhound and tend to order a lot, why not do multiple orders, so that all the "in-stock" is on one order and the "1-2 weeks" stuff is on another? Matt Deres (talk) 20:38, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

If I understand Mr. 98's question, he's not complaining, but asking why it's cheaper for Amazon for shipping to take a long time (if indeed it is). If an item's out of stock, it won't get in any faster no matter how much you're willing to pay. But if Amazon does have things ready to go, then to me, it seems like it would cost about the same to ship in one week versus several. Obviously it's going to cost more to ship something overnight, but in this case, that's not an issue. I like his suggestion that they just fit those items in when they have empty truck space, but I don't really know. Buddy431 (talk) 20:50, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Amazon's "Super Saver" shipping is the US Postal Service's media mail shipping option -- basically, it gets the cheapest rates because packages are shipped on a "space available" basis -- if there's empty space in the truck, some media mail packages will be taken off the stack and shipped. Normally, this is about as fast as the other package shipping options, but at busy times of the year, media mail can be delayed by a month or more. --Carnildo (talk) 01:06, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

. The only time I've seen Media Mail used is from Amazon Marketplace sellers, not from Amazon themselves. I believe I've even gotten items via UPS when using Super Saver. --LarryMac | Talk 01:48, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I presume this would only affect the 'time to arrive' bit and not the 'start to ship' bit however? Nil Einne (talk) 22:26, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

I don't know. When does "start to ship" take place? Is it when Amazon packages the shipment up? When it leaves their loading dock? When the Postal Service enters it into their tracking system (the Postal Service is notoriously bad about this)? Some other time? --Carnildo (talk) 01:39, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

As noted above, economy shipping is cheaper because it allows carriers to use transport capacity left over from more expensive packages. In practice it is actually quite rare that transport vehicles are completely full, and depending on the route there may be only a few days a year when the vehicles are brimming with express packages. Now a shrewd customer might notice that their economy packages from A to B almost always arrive in a day or two, and stop using the more expensive transport options altogether. To prevent such customer behaviour, it is standard practice to always keep economy packages in storage for some minimum period of time, perhaps as long as the delivery time of the next cheapest option. Like all price differentiation, the idea may appear counter-intuitive or even dishonest, but it is essential to the economic efficiency of the transport system, and without it customers would not have the choice between fast & expensive and cheap & slow shipping. 85.156.122.66 (talk) 19:24, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Kaaba tourism?

Is the Kaaba open to non-Hajji tourists for visiting? Staecker (talk) 17:05, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

I would imagine Muslims can but it's a definite no for non-Muslims. See Mecca#Entry to Mecca for Non-Muslims. Nanonic (talk) 17:47, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

There are various adventurers who have visited, just to see if they could get away with it (Richard Francis Burton, T. E. Lawrence, etc). Adam Bishop (talk) 21:08, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

It's like you can't go into the Mormon Temple at Salt Lake City, either, but they have pictures of its interior posted elsewhere, or at least they used to. It's not that it's a secret, just that it's a place they reserve only for true believers. In the case of the Kaaba, if these illustrations are any indication,[1][2][3] strictly as a building in and of itself it's no big deal. As to where I got these links, I googled [Kaaba interior]. That one interior photo, it looks like it's got a lemonade stand or something. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:11, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Short answer: No, it isn't. Long answer: No non-Muslims are allowed into Makkah, and any Muslim that goes to Makkah and to the Kaaba would be there for Umrah or Haj. If you asked a Muslim about visiting the Kaaba for "sight-seeing" or "tourism" they'd look at you as if you're crazy. There are no "tours" of the Kaaba or the Masjid al-Haram precincts, that is a non-existent concept. Zunaid 10:03, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Zunaid, there's no power on Earth that can prevent humans from having wild thoughts that never occurred to anyone else before. And that's a good thing. It's not really possible to have a discussion on a topic that is a "non-existent concept". -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 19:24, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Hehehe...good point! I sheepishly retract my comment. Zunaid 07:54, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Photos of the large courtyard containing the Kaaba; the Kaaba uncovered; and its interior; presumably have all been taken by Muslims. Is there any particular issue with the existence of those photos? Would the photographers have gotten into trouble for it? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 07:34, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I think officially it is frowned upon and they will stop you if they see you. There are guards stationed all around the precinct for crowd control and security. With cameras and cell phones these days it is of course impossible to stop people taking pictures. Presumably official photographers are permitted. Zunaid 07:54, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Being that to be a Muslim is faith based if you really wanted to go and see M then just pretend to be a muslim grow a beard and away you go :)Chromagnum (talk) 07:05, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Test wiki

For a 10-minute presentation I have to give as part of an assignment at college, I'm planning to have the students edit a wiki, so that I can teach them how to edit. Would there be a suitable wiki somewhere where I could create 15 test pages simultaneously? I tried searching Wikia but the search didn't work, it never has. Google found a few wikis, but with no instructions on them to explain exactly what they are, and I don't want to be treading on people's toes. Vimescarrot (talk) 17:40, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

I don't think it would enrage anyone if you created 15 sub-pages of your user page here on Wikipedia for test editing purposes. Here's your first one: User:Vimescarrot/Temp01. This isn't exactly what Wikipedia is for, but you could argue that 10 minutes of test edits won't harm the project. Comet Tuttle (talk) 18:16, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Since the MediaWiki software that runs Wikipedia is freely available, you might consider seeing if your college's IT department can set up a demonstration wiki for you to fiddle with. — Lomn 18:54, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Or you can download a portable server here which includes MediaWiki as an addable package, set the whole thing up on your computer and transfer it to usb drive for the presentation —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kv7sW9bIr8 (talk • contribs) 19:39, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Vimescarrot subpages would work for coding, although it would mean I'd have to forgo the "find an article not been made, search its name, and create it" part of the lesson. Which I can live with. This has to be done fairly soon, so it may not be time for the I.T. department to set up some MediaWiki software, but I'll give it a shot anyway. I'm not sure it would be practical for me to install the software from a pen drive...It'd have to be installed onto fifteen computers before the presentation even starts. Thanks for all the ideas so far. Vimescarrot (talk) 21:06, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

If the computers are networked, you'd only need to install it on one —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.43.89.14 (talk) 22:22, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

There's the Wikia Community Test wiki, where you can do pretty much what you want (although it does note that any content may be removed). Warofdreams talk 00:09, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

You might try over at our sister project, Wikiversity. I don't know if your project necessarily fits their mandate, but it can't hurt to ask. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 01:04, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

If you don't come up with a better answer - let me know and I'll create a couple of dozen temporary accounts on my personal MediaWiki site (http://www.sjbaker.org/wiki). There is a easy intro to Wiki editing there too. Email me (there is a link on my user page). SteveBaker (talk) 03:17, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks - I'll consider all these today. I just realised no page on Wikipedia would work because the college's IP is blocked. Vimescarrot (talk) 06:42, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Personally, particularly if this is a marked or otherwise important assignment, I would recommend you have one more moremore then one (edit:dunno how that happened) option ready. Perhaps see if you can set up a simple test wiki server and also look for some other externally hosted wiki that works from without the college. Something like SB's wiki will have the advantage that you're less likely to be blocked in the meantime because someone in the college is a royal idiot although may have a higher risk of being down (but may not, ask SB for his uptime/availability statistics perhaps). There's nothing like preparing a presentation and then it going all wrong because the internet is down or the server you intended to use is down, or the server you set up and tested crashes for some mysterios reason Nil Einne (talk) 11:30, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Heh, I don't have the skills required to set up a server, or even the MediaWiki software alone. Thanks for your confidence in my skill though. x) Vimescarrot (talk) 16:34, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

My personal Wiki is hosted on a commercial webhost - its uptime is close to 100%. SteveBaker (talk) 16:58, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the excellent suggestions, everyone. I've decided to go with downloading the MediaWiki software and getting it set up on my school network...as a backup (thanks for that, Nil Einne) I'll be using the Wikia Community test wiki. I have every confidence that the students will be vandalising everything they can see - so thanks for the offer, Steve, but I wouldn't want you to have to clean up our mess. :) I'll be posting a video of my presentation on YouTube as soon as I can - probably two weeks from now - if anyone is at all interested. Vimescarrot (talk) 16:34, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

OK - well, if you change your mind, let me know. My personal Wiki only has about three users (me, my son and my sister) and the amount of content is fairly minimal - so I could back up the entire thing before you use it - and simply restore over whatever mess resulted when you were done. I have it set up so you have to have an account to edit - and such that only an admin can create accounts (and I'm the only admin)...so keeping the chaos to a minimum is easy too. Life is a LOT easier without anon IP users and with "by invitation only" accounts! SteveBaker (talk) 16:51, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Good to know - with a little luck I'll be able to check if the IT department managed to get MediaWiki installed on Friday, and if not, I may well be back... Vimescarrot (talk) 17:35, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Watch repair

I fell over the other day whilst running and my watch got scratched (see here) on both the glass covering the face, and significant scratches on the metal strap. I was wondering how difficult this is to repair, and how expensive it would approximately be? Thanks. 217.171.129.74 (talk) 20:08, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Why not take it to a watch shop and ask them for an estimate? It'll be more straightforward than asking us on here. --Mr.98 (talk) 20:34, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Ask a jeweler. Anyway, I infer from the date and time shown on the watch face that the watch is still running, so I wouldn't worry too much. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.35.97.29 (talk) 20:41, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Several years ago I chipped the crystal (glass) on a mid-range Seiko watch and it cost £60 to replace. I sent it to Seiko's own workshop. Richard Avery (talk) 07:04, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

The scratches on the band if it's stainless steel could possibly be buffed out.Replacing the glass can vary, some makes are very expensive, some can be done for a few pounds there and then.hotclaws 00:26, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Maybe more expensive than getting new glass just woundered if the process of mending car windsreens could be used to cover the scratch on the watch glass front?Chromagnum (talk) 07:14, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

How to evade thermal imaging cameras?

How might one evade thermal imaging cameras mounted on police helicopters? I've seen clips of them in use and they've found people hiding in bins, under bushes etc. So is it possible without entering a building?--92.251.203.109 (talk) 20:47, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

How about hiding in someones hottub? Just a thought. Other ideas would be things like old freezers or refrigerators, but don;t suffocate. Googlemeister (talk) 20:57, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Fill the hottub with cold water? By the looks of them they would see someone inside a freezer or fridge. Btw I'm not trying this I was just watching a police show--92.251.203.109 (talk) 20:59, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

No, someone would show up as a massive hot splash in a cold hot tub, unless they were dead. Fridges and freezers could work because they're good insulators. The reflective sheets they wrap victims of cold in are designed to reflect heat in to keep people warm, so they may work too. Any solution will be all about keeping the heat inside, so it'll get hot very quickly as your body warms that small space up. Vimescarrot (talk) 21:03, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Another possibility would be underneath a car's engine area, especially if it has been running recently. What you want to do against thermal imaging is either have something "brighter" (hotter) then you between you and the camera, or else to prevent your heat from reaching the camera. Googlemeister (talk) 21:08, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Though in the latter case, if you block all heat from your vicinity from reaching the cameras, it will show up as a conspicuous human-sized "cold" spot. I sort of think entering a building seems the most straightforward approach... there are, you know, a lot of buildings around in most human-habited places, and it seems like the definite path of least resistance. --Mr.98 (talk) 21:12, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Would running in to a herd of animals work, if the animals don't run?--92.251.139.164 (talk) 21:13, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

If whoever is looking at the image can't tell the difference between a sheep and a human. I don't know how easy it is, on IR, at that resolution. Another suggestion is a fire proximity suit. You would hope they're fairly well insulated...though you don't tend to find them lying around. Vimescarrot (talk) 21:15, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

People have tried to hide in livestock on these shows before, they are very obvious. Prokhorovka (talk) 22:05, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Try to get into a area with lots of other people, mix around but don't run, keep at a steady pace with the rest of the people, and do something "normal" like stop at a cashpoint. Then they won't be able to tell you from the other human shapes acting normal on their screen. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.43.89.14 (talk) 22:12, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Tom Cruise shows how to hide in a bathtub (Video). Cuddlyable3 (talk) 22:50, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Water is a good choice because it's fairly opaque to near-IR. An awful lot depends on how good this infrared gadget is. The top of the line military stuff can see the residual heat from your footprints for quite a while after you were there. Your breath is visible at some wavelengths so shutting yourself in that old fridge would only help if you couldn't breathe - so that's really not going to work. The resolution is no worse than a regular HD TV camera. You can easily tell the difference between a sheep and a person at distances where you could tell the difference on a TV camera. Faces are a little difficult to recognize because the brightness depends on the depths of fat deposits and such - and we're just not used to seeing people look like that. The 'pro' way to deal with IR cameras is with a combination of flares and smoke canisters that emit IR-opaque smoke. SteveBaker (talk) 02:58, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Is there any such a thing as an Infrared Laser? Shoot it directly back to the camera lens and it would blind/destroy the sensor perhaps? The trick is to aim it directly back of course. nb. Myth Busters had an episode about this topic.--220.101.28.25 (talk) 07:38, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Of course there are (near) infrared lasers, like the ones in CD drives. I'm not sure if you'll actually need one though, it wouldn't surprise me if the sensors lack any filters and respond to visible wavelengths.(Okay I just realised that was a dumb suggestion since you'll be giving your location away to anyone in the vicinity, of course you'll likely do the same thing with your infrared laser before you manage to aim it at the sensors along with to anyone else who happens to have googles or other equipement that can see that region, like most digital cameras.) Also I'm not particularly sure why near IR came into it, since the original question was about thermal infrared. In any case the suggestion sounds fun, until you blind the helicopter pilot, cause a crash, get branded a terrorist, captured and if the people doing the capturing are Americans and you aren't a US citizen (and maybe even if you are), get extraordinary renditioned to some hellhole perhaps never to be seen from or heard from again. If your lucky, perhaps you'll only be sent to Guantánamo Bay and then maybe you'll eventually actually receive a fair trial. Nil Einne (talk) 11:14, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Nil Einne, do you mean "If YOU'RE lucky..."? Post repunctuated. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 22:19, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Yes although I have to say I'm disappointed in your performance, you failed to notice I spelt 'equipment' wrong (perhaps other things, I didn't look carefully that's your job, although do note Guantánamo Bay was not a mistake) :-P Nil Einne (talk) 22:12, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

The wise one loves correction because it is the Path to Perfection. The foolish one only defends its mistakes. "YES" would have been enough. Thank you. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 22:40, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

A cruel person would also note the incorrect use of a comma before an ellipsis and the incorrect use of a space before a question mark. But I wouldn't do that. SteveBaker (talk) 02:23, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

In case you're wondering, the reason why I (conciously) choose Guantánamo Bay instead of Guantanamo Bay is because I don't believe a country who's occupation/leasing of a territory (which they agree is not theirs) is controversial anyway should have a right to rename it because they don't know how to spell or are unwilling or unable to use accents or whatever. Therefore I choose to use Guantánamo Bay whether referring to the geographical location (like our article does) or the military base/prison (like our article does not). According to [4] while the US did under Bush refuse to use the accent even when referring to the bay, this is changing under Obama (the base name would I presume rename Guantanamo Bay for them). I do not believe, as some do, that there's something inherently wrong in English of using accented characters particularly for proper nouns. Nil Einne (talk) 07:46, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Well, OK, but only because you insist on twisting my arm:

• happens to have googles or other equipement - I think you meant 'goggles'
• get branded a terrorist, captured and if ..., get extraordinary renditioned to ... - there's a 'get' missing before "captured"
• a country who's occupation/leasing of a territory - that should be 'whose' ('who's' is an abbreviation for 'who is', which doesn't fit here)
• there's something inherently wrong in English of using accented characters - usually 'with' is used here. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 18:55, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

The governor of California managed it with a thin layer of mud. FiggyBee (talk) 03:37, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

The team that robbed the Antwerp diamond centre used simple sheets of polystyrene, according to "The Untold Story of the World's Biggest Diamond Heist", the story in Wired (magazine). BrainyBabe (talk) 16:05, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

OK - there are two problems with both of the previous two answers. Firstly, the Antwerp robbers were not trying to evade a human looking through an IR camera - they were trying to evade heat-sensitive motion detectors - which is an entirely different matter. Secondly, it doesn't matter that you are completely covered in an insulator (be it mud or a lump of foam) because on an IR camera that's the equivelant of painting yourself a uniform shade of grey (or hiding behind a large sheet of grey cardboard) and expecting to be hidden from a regular video camera in broad daylight! You're not invisible - you're still blocking the 'background' - you'll be seen easily! SteveBaker (talk) 16:43, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

That is, Steve, presumably, only if the shield you're holding (to take the foam example) is at a different temperature than the background? --Tagishsimon (talk) 16:54, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Wouldn't that be like making yourself invisible to normal cameras by holding up a piece of foam that's the same color as the background? You'd still see this ridiculous blank rectangle running from the police. At least you could pretend that the mud might conceivably act as camouflage. APL (talk) 18:52, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Exactly - you seem to think that (for example) a grassy slope is all one temperature and therefore you could have a shield that was the exact same temperature. But nothing could be further from the truth. It's just like in a visual camera, grass isn't a uniform shade of green. Each blade of grass casts a shadow onto it's neighbors -that produces a range of shades of green. In IR, one blade casts a shadow on it's neighbor - or shields it from the wind a bit or there are small variations in growth and color. Your shield could no more hide you in an IR camera than a photograph of a grassy hill stuck onto a shield would hide you from a regular camera. But even if you were hiding against a perfectly smooth, flat, uniform surface, these cameras are sensitive to tiny fractions of a degree of temperature variation - the odds of you having your shield be at exactly the right temperature is small. Worse still, the IR reflectivity is another issue. Ambient IR radiation bounces off surfaces just like regular light does. So if one object is shiney and another smooth - you'll see the difference easily. SteveBaker (talk) 02:21, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Unfortunately there are lots of police-state type programmes on British TV including those about pursuing suspected criminals from a helicopter at night using its infra-red camera (like a scene from Farenheit 451 except that instead of burning books, people dont want to read any in the first place). From the one or two I've seen the best thing to do is hide and stay stationary in dense undergrowth, and then you may be mistaken for a fox. I expect a space blanket would help shield your heat from above. May be best to have a air gap between you and the space blanket to stop any conduction, and allow the breeze to keep the blanket cool. 89.240.201.246 (talk) 02:07, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

That won't work either. The reflectivity of your space blanket makes it look shiney and mirror-like in IR just like it does in a visual camera. SteveBaker (talk) 02:21, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I do not believe that, since at night there is no "sun" that provides illumination for it to be shiny or mirror-like. May I remind you that in the dark, a mirror is not shiny or mirror-like. If it was a concern that the space blanket would shine when a searchlight was turned on, then a layer of camoflage material over it would be the solution. 84.13.56.148 (talk) 12:46, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

But there are lots of other things emitting IR light - grass, trees, bricks...all sorts of things. The whole point of using IR is because there is lots of it around at night. Putting camoflage over the space blanket would certainly help - but even so, the blanket will gradually warm up from the person's body heat - and then it'll be glowing with the heat anyway. I've spent years of my life making a careful computer graphics simulation of infrared cameras for the US military - what you see through those things is not in the slightest bit what you'd think. Most of the stuff you see on TV is not IR - it's night vision goggles and those only work in the near infra-red. Proper infrared cameras see in the mid to far IR band. SteveBaker (talk) 03:19, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

The footage I've seen on tv from helicopters using just using passive IR at night just shows a few blurry images of people, hot car engines and so on at low definition. People are picked out by being a bright blob against a dark background. The helicopter is high in the sky and zooming in a lot. Most people have been trying to hide in undergrowth or woodland. If you have enough breeze to mix with and dilute the air warmed by your body, and to keep the space blanket at the same temperature as the ground or twigs and branches, then you should be invisible to the sort of searching I have seen. Ideally you would have the space blanket stretched out above you like a tent or awning. You could even have two of them one above the other. Taking an IR photo and going over it inch by inch is another matter. 78.144.242.151 (talk) 12:18, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

You could also try putting a large bag of ice over your head and shoulders. This would be more likely to work when the environment was cold, and not on a hot summer's night. 78.146.77.179 (talk) 21:05, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

If you took an overhead IR image of the terrain (grassland, brush, whatever) where you planned to hide, couldn't you print up an image which had about the average IR reflectivity of that terrain, on an irregularly shaped sheet of insulating material, or bag which had enough cooling (coldpacks) or thermal mass to prevent heating up for a while, then deploy it when the helicopter was about to pass over? I would expect that it would be quite possible to create a blind which would make a person far less detectable than if he were just standing/running/under a bush. Sounds like a good one for Mythbusters. Edison (talk) 20:02, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Are we talking about passive IR, where the camera just records the heat of the surroundings, or active IR where there is also an infra red "dark light" that shines IR on things? Hiding from the latter would be more difficult I expect. 78.146.193.0 (talk) 22:19, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm talking about passive IR - but certainly some police helicopters have IR searchlights - and that makes hiding from the camera even tougher...not least because the miscreant can't see where it's shining...or even know that it IS shining! SteveBaker (talk) 03:19, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

You could use a Emergency Cold weather Blanket this keeps the heat in and stops it radiating out if you maganged to jump into a freezing river then place your self in oneto three of these it would hide you from Thermal cameras but your body would need to be cold hence jump in a river first.Chromagnum (talk) 07:19, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Exchange rate

I am trying to find out the exchange rate between the Cypriot Pound and the UK pound. The time of the period required is from the 20th April 2002 and 20th May 2002. I require this information for tax purposes. Any advice as to where the information can be found will be greatly appreciated. Thanks Doug —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bargainsniffer (talk • contribs) 23:24, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Xe.com might have historical information, otherwise try typing in (Exchange rates history) into google. Prokhorovka (talk) 23:51, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Yep Xe has them available via this page. An example output (for April 20th 2002) is here. Nanonic (talk) 23:53, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

February 3

The end of artists?

With increasing and apparently uncontrollable copyright infringement/piracy (illegal music/video/video game downloads, copyrighted books' text appearing online unauthorized, sale of pirated movies/video games, etc.), won't artists (musicians, writers, etc.) eventually disappear as they'll have practically no income?

Sorry for the length of the question and the wording (perhaps there's a spelling/grammar error or two). Tried searching elsewhere for the answer but couldn't find it. Just a vague fear I've always had... Thanks, ♠TomasBat 00:33, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

No. Even if your premises were correct, musicians and writers didn't pop into existence when copyright law was invented. Marnanel (talk) 00:49, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

(ec)Err, no. Disruptive technologies have always been accompanied by warnings (from vested interests) that they'll kill the market. And the market has yet to die. Indeed, even as piracy increases, so do sales. By way of example, sales of music CD albums in the UK over the last year are down 3.5%, the fifth year in which they have fallen. But sales of music albums via the internet are up 56%, more than offsetting the decline in consumption of the physical commodity. Ten or so years of the record industry acting like complete and utter idiots should not be mistaken for lack of demand. --Tagishsimon (talk) 00:52, 3 February 2010 (UTC) And I changed the question title, since it for various reasons breaks things when so long

. I disagree. Please cite references for your claims. Music sales and licensing are at half their 1999 levels, and this is not a blip caused by the recent recession; it has been a steady trend over the last decade-plus. This is for online sales, CD sales, everything rolled up into a ball. Digital sales have not "more than offset" the decline — you're taking the statistics you cite out of context. Marnane is correct that authors, songwriters, video game creators, and artists in general will not "disappear" completely, obviously; but digital piracy is definitely harming them economically. The hand-waving claims of the Slashdot "information wants to be free" idiots pale in comparison to the plain sales numbers. Comet Tuttle (talk) 01:01, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

The cite for my figures is [5] - admittedly only a 1 year statistic, but it makes my point. Now show me the evidence that "digital piracy is definitely harming them economically" rather than, for instance, that they are clueless fools entirely responsible for their own decline; or that growth in the market for digital games has taken a huge chunk out of the disposable income previously earmarked for music consumption; or that - as your article notes, "The two recessions during the decade certainly didn't help music sales. It's also a bit unfair to compare the 2000s with the 1990s, since the '90s enjoyed an unnatural sales boost when consumers replaced their cassette tapes and vinyl records en masse with CDs". Remember, too, that it took until 2003 before the record industry got its act together sufficiently to address the digital marketplace. Clearly the industry is going to prefer to blame pirates than blame its own incompetence. Whether we should buy into it in any way is another thing entirely. --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:11, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

When Comet Tuttle wrote that "digital piracy is definitely harming them economically", he was talking about artists, not the industry. Are you saying that the artists themselves are "clueless fools", or is your ire reserved for the record labels? In any case, the evidence is overwhelming that small scale artists on their own, or signed to small independent labels, are suffering from piracy. You don't have to look far to find statements on artists' websites imploring people not to "share" their music. As for the record industry being "complete and utter idiots", I'm not sure about that. What were they supposed to do? The genie was out of the bottle from the moment CDs replaced LPs. One record industry mogul said that was like "giving away [our] master tapes", and I agree with him. Once music exists in digital format, it becomes a simple matter to copy and distribute it for free. And of course many people are going to take advantage of that, because they would rather get something for free than have to pay for it. I get tired of people saying that the industry is responsible for its own demise because it failed to identify a workable business model that would involve people paying for digital music. The fact of the matter is, there is no such model, because resourceful people will always find a way around it. You can't blame the industry for that combination of technological advancement and human greed. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 08:43, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

The recording industry (and digital content creators in general) do have a tendency to shoot themselves in the foot when it comes to piracy and copy protection issues, though; I'm sorry, but stopping me from copying your song to my music player or putting viruses on your CDs does not make me want to buy your product. In the case of big business, it's often complacency and arrogance; they consider themselves to have "revenue streams" to protect, rather than customers to please. In the case of smaller operators it's often misplaced self-righteousness that is their downfall. I recall the case of one (highly successful) content creator for a well-known simulation who hit on the idea of scanning his customers' harddrives for pirated versions of his software as part of his install programs. The result was that he lost the potential business of anyone who had ever "sampled" his work, and - after claimed "false positives" and requests for refunds were responded to with abuse - the respect and trust of the entire community. He went out of business within a few months. FiggyBee (talk) 14:03, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Writers write, singers sing, painters paint, dancers dance, and all whether some is watching or paying or not. It may well be that changes in the marketplace mean that fewer and fewer people can make a living doing any of these things (and all of us will be the poorer for that because we will get to see and hear less and less of what is being done), but it won't stop them from creating. Bielle (talk) 01:25, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

It's not even necessarily the case that the inability of artists (like me) to make a living from it will make us all poorer. I can imagine extending the concept of intellectual property to include things that we don't usually consider to be property. We could for instance all start charging one another for casual conversation, particularly when we catch somebody passing on an idea. Some of us would then be able to make a living from these charges. This doesn't mean such account-keeping would cause a general increase in wealth. 213.122.64.82 (talk) 20:47, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

The more likely situation is that the economics of it will shift around. Industries get disrupted, but somebody finds a way to make a buck. Each disruption causes a lot of woe and some people lose a lot of money while others figure out the way to make it back. It is not a new thing. Some call it "progress," some call it worse things. It doesn't seem likely that artistry itself will go away, but if no viable economic model is set up to encourage it on the scales it is now, you might see things change quite a bit. There is nothing about the status quo that makes it enduring or special—it is the product of its own economic forces, its own distribution system. --Mr.98 (talk) 01:49, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Quality musicians will always be around and making money. If increased piracy threatens anyone (which I'm not sure it does) it's the "music industry", production-line pop and hangers-on, 95% of which would be no great loss... FiggyBee (talk) 03:46, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Artists aren't all about profiteering. Vranak (talk) 04:39, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

They have the right to earn a living, though, don't they? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:22, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Talented musicians will always be able to earn a living doing This. 10draftsdeep (talk) 16:59, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

@Bugs:I don't know of any jurisdiction where a right to earn a living in a specific manner is guaranteed; I don't even know of one where a right to earn a living, period, is guaranteed. @ 10draftsdeep: And I know personally (doing a fast count and stopping at 12) more than a dozen very talented musicians who cannot "earn a living" at music or other forms of art, notwithstanding a faithful following and lots of stage time. Almost all of them have "day jobs". Bielle (talk) 17:16, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

This reminds me of a line from the GNU Manifesto. "Won't programmers starve? I could answer that nobody is forced to be a programmer. Most of us cannot manage to get any money for standing on the street and making faces. But we are not, as a result, condemned to spend our lives standing on the street making faces, and starving. We do something else.. Marnanel (talk) 17:37, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Bugs wasn't talking about guarantees that someone can earn a living. It's just that 99.9% of programmers are able to earn a living because of copyright law. Copyright law is also the reason that 99% of authors and songwriters are able to earn a living. This is not an attack on free software, which I use all the time and which is awesome. Comet Tuttle (talk) 17:53, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm just saying that nobody's guaranteed "the right" to earn a living using a particular talent, and that the fact that it's common that certain creative professions are even capable of supporting their practitioners is a historical fluke that may not continue. (And even within those professions, as Bielle pointed out, the "right" to earn a living is vanishingly rare.) For example, I write fiction, and it gets pretty good reviews, but the chance of me ever being able to work on it full time is minimal. I write formal verse, and people like it, but the chance of me ever being able to work on it full time is zero. Instead, I work full time on something else I'm good at (I actually make a living from free software, funnily enough), and do the other things in my free time. Marnanel (talk) 17:58, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Who pays you to produce that free software? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:27, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

It's a common mistake to assume that all free software is created exclusively by hobbyists. In general a lot of free software is produced for particular companies. IBM, Red Hat, Linksys, etc, have all made free software. And of course not-for-profits like the Linux Foundation or The Mozilla Foundation are heavily funded by the corporations that use those softwares. Free Software is big business, the corporate world isn't about to leave themselves entirely at the mercy of a bunch of stereotypical guys coding in their basements for the fun of it.APL (talk) 18:45, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

The point being that you can't make a living at literally producing only free stuff. The free stuff is a hook - just like music or video samples. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:51, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

That simply isn't true. Free (as in speech) doesn't mean that someone hasn't paid for it to be brought into existence. APL (talk) 18:58, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

The developers have to pay for it somehow, unless they've got slaves working for them. If they're giving something away, that's a hook to buy something from them. Freeware is often a "stripped down" version of a "deluxe" edition of the software, which of course has to be purchased. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:06, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Bugs, everyone else here seems to be discussing Free Software while you seem to be discussing Freeware. They're quite different. That may be the source of the confusion. You're probably right about Freeware, but there is money to be made in Free Software that is honestly not a bait-and-switch. APL (talk) 19:12, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

You misunderstand, I think. I'm not paid to produce free==given away for nothing software, I'm paid to produce free==copyable software, though obviously in some cases it's given away for nothing. I mention it only because someone mentioned free software in the previous comment. Marnanel (talk) 18:54, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Regardless of the technicalities, your company is choosing to do business this way. Some artists choose to give away some of their work also. That doesn't excuse or justify piracy. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:20, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Bugs, no one is saying that anything excuses or justifies anything. It hasn't even come up. Who are you debating with? APL (talk) 20:29, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

The basic question is whether being an artist will cease to be something you can earn a living from. With sufficient piracy, the answer will become "Yes". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:18, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

No amount of piracy can displace a performing artist. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 22:34, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Comet Tuttle, I seriously dispute your claim that 99.9% of programmers are able to earn a living because of copyright law. I'm pretty sure that the majority of programmers are employed creating custom business solutions that would have little to no value for anyone other than the customer. APL (talk) 18:38, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I would think your assessment is closer to the reality. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:51, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

I have no reference to support my made-up statistic — quite unfortunate for me, given that in this very thread, I scolded Tagishsimon for not having a reference for his made-up junk analysis — but I very much doubt that the majority of programmers create custom business solutions that are actually valueless to other enterprises. (Yes, I realize some large number of these solutions are built around ostensibly unique internal processes. But is every accounting process really a precious and unique snowflake?) Copyright law supports their employment, too, in addition to all the other programmers outside of custom business solution programming whose livings depend upon it. Comet Tuttle (talk) 23:02, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm not at all convinced of this. Software would still be needed to make the world go round. When the lack of quality software started to effect big business they'd find a way to put down money to make it happen. Others would find ways of making money with free software.

Some programmers make stuff that's hardware dependent. Other's make software, even games, that is dependent on a central server. (World of Warcraft would still be profitable no matter the copyright status of the client.), not to mention the ones that are already gainfully employed creating free software. I'm not saying that some programmers wouldn't lose their jobs. Of course they some would. But it would be nowhere near the 99.9% you came up with.

I think you're greatly underestimating the flexibility and adaptability of our capitalist economic system. APL (talk) 01:42, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

(amplifying and clarifying my point. E/c with SteveBaker below.)

Software made for the military alone is probably enough to bust your 99% number. It's not copyright laws that stop the Russians from copying our military simulators and missile guidance systems. And, yes, of course there's often overlap between custom applications made for company A and company B. But it's not primarily copyright laws that stop company A from sharing its software with company B. (They sometime own the copyright, The law doesn't stop them from sharing!) A sudden disappearance of copyright laws would mostly effect the consumer software market. (the small minority of software created.) But even there, the effect would not be completely catastrophic. For example, if Microsoft were suddenly replaced with the "Not-For-Profit OpenSource Windows and Office Foundation" Dell, HP, Gateway and the like would be more than willing to contribute, because they know their business depends on keeping Microsoft software up to date. How do I know this would happen? Because it already has happened for Linux.[6].

But more likely, if tomorrow copyrights were abolished, Microsoft would stick around and find new ways to make money by developing software. Centralized Cloud-based computing comes to mind.

So our current system of copyrights might be good for the industry, but it's clear that it's not absolutely vital. APL (talk) 02:19, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

How can encyclopedia writers survive with all of the people here writing an encyclopedia for free? It's the same problem. Also, when we say 99.9% of programmers/writers/musicians/whatever are able to earn a living, consider that this could be because those who can't make a living doing it are doing something else and therefore do not self-identify as programmers/writers/musicians anymore. In the software world, it's a matter of several things:

1. For games, it's exceedingly difficult for OpenSource programmers to find artists and musicians who are prepared to work for free. So OpenSource games have to either be very 'shallow' (not much art) or have art made by the programmers (the term "programmer art" is an extreme pejorative!) - or more often start out with massive enthusiasm and never get finished. When you DO finish a complete game, just like most commercial game, it has about a one in thirtyfive chance of becoming successful - and even when it is successful, it's a short term thing. It's quite soul-destroying to spend three years of your life writing a game - only to find that people pretty much stop talking about it a couple of weeks after launch.
2. For applications software, it's quite possible for OpenSource programmers to produce really great tools. Programs like GIMP are probably 95% as good as Photoshop - yet an enormous number of people will pay hundreds of dollars for the commercial product and never learn to use more than 30% of what it can do! However, some software like this becomes massively popular. Firefox, for example.
3. There is an immense amount of software that people write for their own purpose and realise that the effort to market it and sell is will never earn them much money. By handing it out for free, they bring other users in to improve and maintain the software - and in a way, that's profit.

The music and novel-writing professions are more like the first of those things - which probably explains why there aren't many people doing it. SteveBaker (talk) 02:12, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Except that "music" includes live performances, there's not much market for live programming shows, or live novel writing. APL (talk) 04:31, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

How do use HD video in flash, or put flash animation over HD video without ruining quality?

I'm moving this question to the Computing Reference Desk. Please see the relocated thread here.

--Anonymous, 06:50 UTC, February 3, 2010.

Wanna be tough guys

Three seriously tough bodybuilders enter a pub. One little, tiny weakly jerk comes up to them and full of aggression tells to one of the bodybuilders that he (the little one) will "fuck him up". It was not a joke, but was a real threat. The bodybuilders have calmed him down and walked away. I would have probably done the same had I been one of the bodybuilders, because had the bodybuilder actually punched the little one then the little one would die instantly. When the bodybuilders walked away I asked the little one if he is some sort of a martial arts expert. He said that he is not a martial arts expert at all but that someone needed to face up to the big guys and show them that they are not as tough as they think they are! He saw them for the first time, but when he saw how confident they walk around he immediately felt provoked! What is actually the best way to handle those little wanna be tough guys who feel provoked by real tough guys?

As per the notice at the top of the page, the Reference Desk is not a discussion forum. Please try asking a factual question, your query is so open-ended as to basically be just inviting random opinions. Zunaid 09:49, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

It is more or less a serious question. I've had this problem myself often. It is a practical application of social-psychology. 78.146.251.66 (talk) 11:49, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Do you mean you always have the urge to walk up to a 'seriously tough bodybuilder' and say you will 'fuck him up'? If so, see a psychologist or psychiatrist, we can't offer medical advice. Or are you a 'seriously tough bodybuilder' who is repeatedly accousted by 'one little, tiny weakly jerk' who says he will fuck you up? If so, then the best way is obviously to walk away since while we can't offer legal advice, assault is a criminal offence in most countries and in any case, if you are a 'real tough guy' you clearly don't have to hit someone to prove it. And perhaps re-consider the sort of places you are visiting since in most places you aren't going to be continually accousted by 'one little, tiny weakly jerk' Nil Einne (talk) 12:30, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

I am familiar with the second case. "Walking away" is rarely a solution since the aggressive small guy may be a co-worker, professor, or whatever, that you cannot escape from. Even if this happens in somewhere like a restaurant, it is not fair that you should have to give up your meal by "walking away". I pretend not to hear, but that removes inhibitions from the small guy. In my experience guys who are borderline between average and short are the most aggressive. 84.13.53.3 (talk) 16:48, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Well walking away appears to be a solution in the ops case. For your cases, co-worker=warn him/her and if the behaviour continues, make a complaint to the appropriate party (HR/your superior/his/her superior). Professor if you mean collegue = same thing. If you mean you're a student, well I would seriously consider a new university but in the mean time, complain to whatever appropriate party. Superior = well complain to someone higher up, or HR; or perhaps consider a new job. If you are in a restaurant, tell the staff to deal with the person. If it is staff, well ask to see a supervisor or someone similar. Depending on the circumstances, and how much of a threat you feel the person is, you may want to consider calling the police. Ultimately it's not your job to deal with whatever mental problems other people may have, so it doesn't matter if it "removes inhibitions from the small guy", provided the behaviour stops. Nil Einne (talk) 22:10, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

You are describing the ideal, not the reality. People are not concerned, its happening to someone else, not themselves. They think a big guy should be able to deal with it, otherwise the big guy is a wimp and does not deserve help, and they believe that a big guy must be responsible, since everyone knows that big guys pick on small guys. People see big guys as if they are cartoon characters. I think many people must believe that someone's body stature is formed by their personality or vice versa. 89.240.201.246 (talk) 01:38, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

But it is the job of the HR department or supervisor of an organisation to care about what's happening to the employees, and commonly they do it all the time (depending on the size of the staff of course). Ditto with whatever university department deals with harrassment (in fact in some cases it may be their only job). To some extent, the same with the staff of a restaurant. Amongst other things, it avoids legal problems. I can imagine the staff of some restaurants may not always care (although even that's far from convincing, if two people in the restaurant are fighting that's usually going to annoy other patrons), but I'm far less willing to believe it's commonly the case amongst HR departments and similar. Also your suggestion is somewhat contradictory. If they receive a complaint and believe you are at fault, they're not going to ignore it because they don't care. They're going to pursue you. Having said that, if you go into the process believing that they're not going to care, they're going to think you should be able to deal with it yourself, they're going to blame you when you aren't at fault and that they see you as cartoon characters, I'm not surprised the response you get is far from satisfactory since there's a very good chance the way you would approach the situation is not likely to help anything. If you would be more willing to accept that most people actually can think rationally and will do their jobs properly and not let their preconceptions sour their good judgement, then people would respond accordingly. Nil Einne (talk) 07:26, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

You are assuming that there is an HR department in the first place. I think most places of work do not have them. You are regretebly describing a fantasy of how things should be rather than how they actually are. Often such harrassment comes from the supervisor since they believe they must be conspicuously dominant. In their minds a big guy is threat to their dominance and they must belittle the big guy to restore their dominance. The belittling does not work as it does not make the big guy any smaller, and so it continues. 84.13.56.148 (talk) 12:31, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Closest I can come to an article relating to this is Napoleon complex. --Mr.98 (talk) 13:41, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

First, watch GoodFellas for a vivid depiction of this phenomenon. Second, I don't know where you get the assumption from that larger creatures always dominate smaller ones, but it simply isn't true. I think it's more about who feels more self-righteous. They will be more ferocious and dangerous. Vranak (talk) 14:01, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

The OP is making some sort of analogy, but he's being coy about exactly what he's talking about and which side of it he's on. But the most obvious response from the big guy is to call his bluff by saying, "You and what army?" ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:19, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

That is a good response until about the end of primary school. Googlemeister (talk) 16:50, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Enough ale will often reduce a pub denizen to that level. :) Maybe the tough guy could do something the little guy doesn't expect, like breaking into song. Maybe "I Feel Pretty", as was recommended as a self-calming song in the movie Anger Management. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:24, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

I like the idea of the three bodybuilders spontaneously breaking into a perfect choral rendering of Amazing Grace ;-) --Stephan Schulz (talk) 18:29, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Preferably accompanied by badly-played bagpipes. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:48, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Or well-played ones - it's hard to tell! SteveBaker (talk) 12:10, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

In a tragic coincidence, this exact scenario came up recently. The little guy was wearing a plaid shirt and spiked hair, and one of the big, drunken guys mistook him for a set of pipes, and squeezed him a little too hard. :( ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:42, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

(unindent) This question also appears here. Bus stop (talk) 17:42, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Cambodian dog rat story/urban legend

Hello! There is an urban legend about a small dog from Cambodia, Thailand, or Mexico that a woman takes home, which ends up eating her cat. The small dog is identified as a large dangerous rat by a veterinarian. Various versions of this story are here. My teacher insists that this story has really happened in Catalonia a couple of times, but I have a lot of doubt that it's real. Can anyone provide citations either confirming or debunking this urban legend? If it is true, a photo of the dog/rat would be very interesting if one's available. Thank you!--el Aprel (^facta-_facienda) 16:52, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

The version that I've heard had a tasmanian devil instead of a rat but the rest of the story remained pretty much the same. Couple goes to Tasmania on vacation, finds cute little "dog", brings it home (how it gets through quarantine, customs, and such is never mentioned), and it kills the family cat when everyone is away at work/school. Dismas|^(talk) 17:11, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Tell teach, "The person making the claim is the person who has to put up the proof." Comet Tuttle (talk) 17:47, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

"insists that this really happened" is a phrase often connected with urban legends. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:18, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Snopes[7] has you covered. Prokhorovka (talk) 18:24, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

A simple scientific debunking of is that there's likely no known true rats (i.e. belong to the genus Rattus) of that size. The Brown Rat is I think one of the largest (not sure if it's the largest) true rats but is almost definitely not big enough to eat a cat, not even close. Probably not even a kitten. There are larger rodents which aren't true rats, e.g. see giant rat. For example, one of the people who discovered the Bosavi Woolly Rat (~1.5kg) called it a 'true rat' but despite some confusion in some of the news articles, it appears to belong to the genus Mallomys although does therefore belong to the subfamily Murinae although not in the Rattus division so this designation is perhaps questionable. In any case it has a "diet of leaves and roots" so isn't going to eat a cat. [8] [9]. The largest known extant rodent is the Capybara but that's fairly far removed from a rat, not even being in the same suborder Hystricomorpha (see also Zygomasseteric system). It also eats grass so even if you do consider it a rat, it isn't going to eat a cat. I suspect most large rodents are similarly primarily herbivorous of some sort so aren't going to eat a cat. Of course even if the rat was carnivorous and large enough, I'm sceptical whether it would normally try to eat a cat, most predators don't try to eat other predators particularly if they start to fight back (of course if it's being held captive, it may display odd behaviour). In other words, no there's almost definitely no cat eating rats anywhere in the world. Nil Einne (talk) 21:54, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Not live cats anyways. Rats are quite adept scavengers. Googlemeister (talk) 22:03, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for all the information! Looks like I was letting my gullibility get the best of me.--el Aprel (^facta-_facienda) 16:51, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

February 4

Sandy Beach

In the mid to late 1950's my family would got to a manmade lake, I think, in Oakland New Jersey called "Sandy Beach". We commuted from Queens, New York, and it was just a magical place with large, treed picnic area. The lake had a sliding pond on one end, colorful fenced off areas with much more shallow water. There were also "waterfalls" which may have also been manmade.

No one can tell me what happened to this place; possibly condos were built there. You could walk around the lake, there were concession stands, and the entire atmosphere was fantastic. I mean if I could have one day back in my childhood, it would be a day at Sandy Beach.

How can I find out what happened to this place; exactly where it was located, etc.

Lucy Varricchio —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.80.249.96 (talk) 01:07, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I've removed your email address to stop spammers finding it. You'll need to return here to get answers per desk policy. Marnanel (talk) 01:09, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

There was once a Sandy Beach in Oakland, NJ. According to this blog post, Sandy Beach was shut down in the early 1960s when the water of the Ramapo River (where the beach was located) became murky due to the growth in the number of septic tanks installed as part of the area's suburban development. Sandy Beach was one of a series of summer resorts along the river, the last of which apparently shut down in the 1980s, according to the blog post. Sandy Beach was located along the Ramapo River just southwest of the end of Hemlock Street in Oakland. Hemlock Street is now a dead end, but it may once have led to the park. The park access road is no longer on the map. If you search for Hemlock Street in Oakland, NJ, on Google Maps, you will find the area. Looking at a Google Earth image of the area, it now seems to be overgrown. The Sandy Beach area has not been developed since it was closed. There are probably still foundations of structures in the woods there. The water along what used to be the beach area now seems quite murky, and the Google Earth image, apparently taken in summer, shows a dense growth of algae or pond scum in the water along the shore. I'm sorry that the place you remember so fondly has changed beyond recognition. Marco polo (talk) 01:38, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I found this http://www.oakland-nj.org/minutes/BOA%20Minutes%204-10-07.pdf which describes a Sandy Beach in Oakland, New Jersey. "The property had been originally a part of the Samuel P. Demarest Farm, which was considered a “Wood Factory.” Prior to the 1900’s, the property had been purchased by Ludo Wilkens who constructed the “Wilken’s Bristle Brush Factory.” In the 1930’s the property then was acquired by Sandy Beach, Inc., which operated as a swim club." Could that be it? 89.240.201.246 (talk) 01:52, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Comparing the google and multimap maps of 41°01′15″N 74°15′26″W - the Hemlock Street location discussed above, it seems that a single lake now covers an area which once had three smaller lakes. It's possible that some of the land you walked on is now under water. If it helps, yours is the very sweetest question we've been asked in a long time on the reference desk. I'm sorry the news was not better. --Tagishsimon (talk) 03:18, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

So now we'll never know if we found the right place or not, or if the OP came back and read this. ;( 92.26.29.37 (talk) 20:05, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Hello, I believe I may have found the answer to your query. I am currently resident at 207 Ramapo Valley Road Oakland, NJ, a mere two blocks from what I know to be the ruins of the "Sandy Beach" swim club. My father once worked there many years ago and provided me with much information on the subject. The area now resembles (as best as I can describe it) a large open area, with some knee-high grass covering one half, and mulch covering the other. There is a large barn/warehouse there (with industrial locks on the doors and bricked-up windows [they really don't want anyone in there]) that used to be a sort of "common building" for lake-goers. Back behind the "common building", are located an extremely large amount of concrete or cement (I'm not much of the construction sort of guy) benches/picnic tables (this is not on site, it is just clarification of what type of table I am talking about http://www.hansonsilo.com/images/picnic-table-2.jpg)with a large backhoe claw (much like this http://www.valbysales.com/_borders/newgrapple5.jpg, but bigger and rusted over) lying beside, and what I can only imagine to be what was used to move the tables. My friends and I now enjoy play games of airsoft on the site, and I am happy to give you any more information that you would like.

Scott 5/16/14 - Hello and YES, this was Sandy Beach!! I went to Sandy Beach for years when I was little. The entrance was not on Hemlock but at the end of Spruce St. There used to be a waterfall off the Ramapo river right at the end of Hemlock. The waterfall diverted water through a type of filtration system and filled the swimming area. A stream carried the water out from the swimming area on the other side which ran along side picnic benches where we used to fish. A small dam with a house over it allowed water to go back to the Ramapo. The dam was opened at the end of the season to drain the swimming area. The course of the river was changed as it extends back further now but used to run closer to the beach area. From the back of the beach area you could see people canoeing down the river. Some of the cement walls that helped contain the river are still hidden deep within the woods where the river once flowed. Within Sandy Beach there were a couple of small bungalow's which were rented each season. Two of my childhood friends Bobby & Patty stayed in one of them. There was a large pavilion there. At one end they had two bays, one of which they parked the tractor which raked the beach every day and the other end had a bar with a stage area. At the end of the day, those who remained would head over to unwind before going home. Songs like "See You in September", Wooly Bully", Hot Fun In The Summertime" and Donovan's "Hurdy Gurdy Man" could be heard playing. There was a small baseball diamond next to the pavilion. I first learned to swim at Sandy Beach where my step dad through me in the water at the deep end by the diving boards. I have lot's of memories of this place. I was too young to understand why it closed but will never forget my time there. The name changed from Sandy Beach to the Ramapo Valley Beach Club a season or two before it closed. Somewhere I still have pictures from there, I need to dig them out again!

need to know if i can get half cuts cars from china for export

i need to know if it is allowed in china to buy half cut cars in accident or from junkyards and engines gearboxes ....to export. cars brands is cherry and tiggo . —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hisam 2010 (talk • contribs) 09:17, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

That's legal advice. Sorry, we can't answer that sort of thing. Shadowjams (talk) 11:21, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I don't agree that it's certain that it's necessarily a legal advice question; but I don't know the answer. Comet Tuttle (talk) 18:40, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

well, as a non-legalish answer, you can buy just about anything you set your mind on, if you're willing to pay the price for it. however, that statement will rapidly bring you back to question of whether it's against the law. --Ludwigs2 20:16, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

hypothetical lease question

If someone has a long term lease, (example someone has a 50 year lease on a person's farmland, or woodland or whatever), and 5 years into the lease, the landlord dies, is the heir required to continue the lease, or must it be renegotiated? I understand that the answer probably depends on where this happens, but since it is only hypothetical, just let me know where the particular situation is applicable. Googlemeister (talk) 15:55, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I don't know about the general case under common law, but I would be surprised if such a long term lease didn't include clauses dealing with "assignment" or "survivorship" or some such. It's not just possible but likely that (at least) one of the original parties to a fifty-year lease will die before the term is up, and I would expect their lease to address the issue explicitly. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 16:05, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

That's right — most contracts I have seen have a clause that specifically states that the terms of the contract continue to be binding on the parties' "survivors or assigns"; but I don't know the answer under English and American common law when there is no such clause. The wimpy answer is "this depends on where you live; look up the law". Comet Tuttle (talk) 16:52, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Googling "landlord dies" yields many results on this question; one that looks authoritative is this article from Iowa State University, which states that, in Iowa at least, the lease is still valid, and the dead landlord's estate is now the landlord. The estate can presumably go ahead and terminate the lease if the executor desires, but would have to do so under whatever termination procedures are in the lease contract, or under the state's statutory termination procedures if there's no termination clause in the contract. Many of the Googled results are questions about what happens if the lease agreement was an oral agreement; since there are typically no witnesses in these cases, the results are usually quite bad for the tenant. Comet Tuttle (talk) 19:23, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Inaccuracy in the The Hurt Locker?

I haven't yet watched the film, however, in the poster of it, a soldier is pulling several cables from the ground. Isn't it an extreme unwise thing to do in Iraq? Wouldn't it be more common to simply try to detonate anything you find buried in the ground?--Quest09 (talk) 17:58, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Maybe you should see the movie. I quote from our article:"tensions mount between the team members due to James's recklessness and unorthodox methods". DJ Clayworth (talk) 18:56, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

"Extremely unwise" pretty much sums up James' approach to defusing bombs. It's an excellent movie, incidentally.

Addressing the detonation problem—the difficulty is that most of the IEDs in the movie are found in heavily populate urban areas. To blow them up would in part accomplish the damage desired by those who left them there (and require the evacuation of a large area, destruction of personal property, possibly many injuries, etc.). In the film they spend most of their time defusing the bombs, and then taking them out into an unpopulated area and detonating them there. My understanding is that it is always a trade-off for bomb squad people to try and figure out what they can and can't diffuse. --Mr.98 (talk) 20:52, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Re to DJ Clayworth: That's not really talking about that action, but rather a broader string of actions (some of which are in that scene).

This is an interesting question because I wonder why they don't just cut the cords. In that particular scene the bomber is trying to set off the bombs with a 9V battery... in that case the circuit is already broken. Cutting the wires would be no change (except the 9V wouldn't be a threat). Is this realistic? Shadowjams (talk) 07:37, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

The s symbol we all drew as kids

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/object2/600/78/n317809704552_8958.jpg

Anyone have any idea as to where it came from? 75.107.246.153 (talk) 18:45, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I don't remember if I drew it as a kid, but if I did, then it came from other kids. Those kids took the idea from other kids. And don't ask me how it began. There are kids up to the beginning. Quest09 (talk) 18:51, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Who's "we all"? I never even saw that symbol, let alone drew one. TomorrowTime (talk) 18:55, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I recognized this symbol immediately. When I was younger, people used to make NC State symbols with the exact same pattern. I don't know if this is specific to NC State, or if other state schools have similar designs. (note, I don't think this is the official NCSU logo). Falconus^{p t c} 19:07, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I remember people writing the word "Smile" with an S like that and the other letters in the same style (and the "l" drawn as a palm tree). I've only seen this in Austrian schools. Rimush (talk) 19:08, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I used to draw a variant of that as a kid and thought it was from the logo of Suzuki, though now that I look at it, there's little resemblance. Comet Tuttle (talk) 19:14, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

We used to doodle like that with Isometric Graph paper when I was a kid, purely as it fit the lines/dots perfectly. Nanonic (talk) 19:27, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I clearly remember learning to draw that symbol as a kid (USA, late '80s). Everyone in my class thought it was a neat trick at the time, since we were too young to produce decent bubble letters, and that S can be drawn quite easily by making two rows of three vertical lines, then connecting the ends. I've also seen it used a lot in graffiti tags, probably for the same reason. My guess would be that, like playground games, urban legends, and nursery rhymes, it's one of those little things passed endlessly between generations and cultures because its appeal is universal to children of a certain age. - Fullobeans (talk) 19:51, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

It could be a Möbius strip. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 22:46, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I remember drawing it in elementary school in the late 90s and early 2000s. Fun stuff. Drawn the same way, I don't think it came from a label or something. Quest09 is right, just passed down. The Reader who Writes (talk) 00:21, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

I remember seeing it growing up in Australia in the 1980s. Steewi (talk) 00:44, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Likewise, it was a common doodle when I was growing up in New England in the 1980s. It is, as noted above, part of one of the common logos of North Carolina State University, but from my memory, we always called it the "Suzuki S" after Suzuki motocycles. --Jayron32 06:20, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Are these sensible questions?

I ask whether any of the following questions has an objective answer. They are not random questions. They were issued to me today by New Era Publications who market Scientology materials, hence the occasional Co$ jargon.

1) What is a thetan´s relationship to the body at night while the body sleeps?

2) How was time really invented?

3) How people actually put on, or lose weight?

4) Why is sex a puzzle to man but not to women?

5) Why are men sometimes dying earlier then women? <-- Alan King had the answer to this one. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:29, 5 February 2010 (UTC)No, in that video Mr. King seems unaware that men marry women much younger than themselves with predictable result.Cuddlyable3 (talk) 16:58, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

6) What has the motto of the whole track been?

7) What have you been doing the last 76 Trillion years?

8) How do you increase your horse power as a thetan?

9) Why do children sometimes not want to eat their food?

10) Why do babies don’t talk? (It is not because of their age)

Cuddlyable3 (talk) 22:34, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

In order: no because there is no objective proof of thetans; no because time is an abstraction, not something that can be invented; yes, see food science; no (unless possibly you first prove the premise); probably (if the premise is true); I don't know because I don't know what "the whole track" is; yes, at least for the infinitesimal portion of 76tn years I've actually been around; no, same reason as the first; yes, see child psychology; no, since the premise is clearly ridiculous. Marnanel (talk) 22:45, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia has articles about Thetan and the whole track that may help. Or not. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 22:53, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

(EC) As I suspect you already knew, at least some of those are loaded questions. Some of the other just plain don't make no sense. That is, they don't make sense if you haven't been immersed into Scientology lore - which makes them useless questions to pose to a non-believer. What you want to do if you're drafting for your local cult religion is pose questions that don't reek of that same local cult's hermetic practices - you wanna get your new cultists believers by pulling them in gently. Your local Scientology chapter really should get a better PR manager... TomorrowTime (talk) 22:52, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Don't know if it is an objective answer but my usual answer to people asking me rubbish like that is something like 'Thanks but I'm not interested". Dmcq (talk) 23:35, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Or you could answer with a question, such as, "What has a trunk with no key; weighs 2,000 pounds; and lives in a circus?" ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:37, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

A tree and a fat clown. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 12:21, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

That's a pretty good answer. The one I was thinking of was from Duck Soup. Prosecutor: "That's irrelevant." Chicolini: "Hey, that's the answer! There's a lot 'r elevents in the circus!" ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:27, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

I numbered your questions for you to make them easier to reference. 1) False or unproven presupposition that Thetan's exist 2) Depending on who you talk to time may be a fundamental structure of the universe (Newtonian time) in which case it was certainly not invented unless you believe in a universal creator. Another philosophical doctrine, Kant and Leibniz style time, is that time is fundamental intellectual structure (together with space and number) within which humans and other organisms sequence and compare events and is not materially real. Good luck with that second one. 3) This is certainly phrased in a loaded way, but if you want to be unambiguous, then humans gain weight because they intake more mass through their diet and, to a negligible extent, air (air isn't so negligible when you are an autotroph) than they lose through excretion. 4) Has a false or at least unproven presupposition. 5) Life expectancy#Gender differences. Also it is impossible for any human male to outlive all human females that will ever be barring redefining the notions of "human", "males", or "females", extreme human population dieoff, and immortality. 6) No idea, probably you can look this one up if the whole track exists and it has a motto. 7) According to the best accepted astrophysical explanations: I have been living X years, gestating for Y months, and most of the mass that comprises me has been recirculating through various biogeochemical processes (when they came into existance) such as the food web, the carbon cycle, the nitrogen cycle, the water cycle, etc for 4.54 billion years. Before then my mass was probably localized in a molecular cloud that gravitationally collapsed 4.6 billion years ago to form the solar system and probably several other stars as well. The molecular cloud was probably short lived, but for about 8.6 bya before then, my mass would have been part of various stars, nebulae, dust and gas of the milky way's interstellar medium, and components of other galaxies and the intergalactic medium drawn in by the milky way's gravity. Before that, for probably around 400 million years my mass was fairly homogeneously distributed neutral hydrogen and helium atoms busy contributing to the cosmic microwave background. Before then, it was rather complicated and you can read more about it here [10]. Everything that occurred before 75.98627± 0.00012 trillion years ago I can't account for or may be irrelevant as time may have not existed. 8) False or unproven presupposition that thetans exist and I am in fact a thetan, but I can increase my horsepower by increasing my metabolic rate through exercising, and I can increase my horse power by purchasing more horses. 9) Children may not want to eat their food for a variety of reasons such as simply not liking it, not being hungry, being sated, having ulcers or other painful internal afflictions, or expressing independence by not doing what you would like them to do. 10) Their levels of language acquisition and speech production are not adequate assuming "don't talk" is a grammatical error and not some sort of jargon. Also, some babies may have a developmental or voice disorder that delays or makes it impossible to speak. 152.16.15.144 (talk) 02:54, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

I can make heads or tails out of all but number six -- the motto of the whole track? mkay... Number two is being equivocal about the term 'invented', but I get the gist of it. Vranak (talk) 13:43, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

lolling forever at question 4, but I'm interested how you came to have this. Scientology is usually very good at separating the in-group communications from the out-group, and this uses in-group terms and ideas. 86.179.145.61 (talk) 15:14, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

As a general rule, a question without context is like a tree without roots: it stands or falls according to the direction of the wind. so which way is your wind blowing? --Ludwigs2 15:39, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

I think the answer to your title question is No. Let us progress from there.

1.I'm going for 'first cousin twice removed'.Either that or 'very bad,since the body at sleep hogs the duvet,and leaves the Thetan with only half the bedclothes and so rather cold.'

2.Something happened.Anything.Then we get before that event,during it and after. That's a concept of time which means time in some form must have arrived. If it had to be invented,someone had to have invented it,which begs the question of what it was like before time was invented,and since time is such a fundamental concept,imagining living without it makes my brain hurt.

3 can easily be dealt with. People put on weight by eating lots.Fatty,sugary foods do the trick-scarf down a ocuple of boxes of doughnuts a day with a fryup for tea and then couch potatoing will add the weight.To lose it,eat healthily,sensibly and exercise.

4.The person who can answer this will be a multi-millionaire.We would all like to do.Which specific part of sex is the puzzle? The physical bit is quite straightforward-put this thing into this hole. The more puzzling bits-why won't he/she/it have sex with me?Especially when they will with someone else?Why aren't I enjoying it? Why does he/she/it like these weird sexual practices? have kept manual writers busy for years-especially the differences between male and female perception-emotional vs practical etc. Some women find sex a puzzle,some men don't.

5 pretty much answers itself with that sometimes. Men sometimes die earlier than women,which means that sometimes they don't and women die earlier. Take your choice of reasons why someone dies early- disease,illness,murder,car accident,suicide,wondering 'what this button does if I press it?'

6.Google is your friend.Apparently,'The Whole Track' is some sort of music portfolio group and their motto is 'We live in an interactive world'.

7.That's a heck of a long time.Make it 'What were you doing for the night of the 17th' and you might stand a better chance. I suppose perfecting omnipotence,creating a few billion words and universes-and learning to answer daft questions.That practice certainly seems to be coming in handy.

8.Pedal harder.Or get more horses.

9.They don't like the taste,they're already full,they're ill,all the reasons you don't eat your food.Or they're just vindictive little brats who are out to cause trouble with a hunger strike.

10.Well,they may not be able to talk,but they've mastered grammar.'Why do babies don't talk?'Yikes.They produce noises that express their feelings-I'm hungry,I'm cold,I'm thirsty,I want to sleep,I want you to stop tossing me around like a rugby ball.'Most of these noises are identical.To determine exactly what each honk means,you need a baby translator-This gentleman has exactly what you require.

Next week:Why the aliens are coming to take us home to the planet Vlarg.All hail Kang and Kodos Lemon martini (talk) 01:25, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

More religious mockery on the reference desk. We're the 95%, you know. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.54.94.43 (talk) 07:35, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

What religious mockery do you mean? On my bookshelf I have: "Scientology has opened the gates to a better World. It is not a psycho-therapy nor a religion." (my emphasis) L. Ron Hubbard, Page 251, Creation of Human Ability (c) 1954 L. Ron Hubbard. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 15:04, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

208: Being in the majority doesn't make you either right or worthy of any special respect. It is a fact that the percentage of people who believe in religion drops rapidly as a function of intelligence and educational level - and since there are a lot of very well educated and intelligent people here (that's how we manage to answer all of these difficult questions) - you're probably in the minority. Wikipedia (and the Ref Desk) are about fact - and religion is very light indeed on actual fact. I personally reserve the right to mock religion and those who are stupid enough to believe in it as I see fit. In any case, the scientology "believers" are most definitely not a large part of "your" 95%. Technically, it's not even a religion - so a good fraction of it's enthusiasts are presumably in the remaining 5% anyway. SteveBaker (talk) 01:35, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

SteveBaker your claim to belong to "we...very well educated and intelligent people" makes one wonder who educated you in English because neither they nor corrections given to you on the Ref. Desk have taught you that "it is enthusiasts are" is abuse of the grammatical contraction it's = it is. For that you have only yourself to blame, irregardless tedious ranting against allegedly sub-intelligent under-educated stupid mock-worthy fact-ignorant religionists. Amen.Cuddlyable3 (talk) 16:51, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Excessive thanks

I've noticed this sort of thing time and again, and I've probably done it myself a few times.

Scenario: Two people, A and B, are approaching a door into a supermarket, office, whatever. A opens the door and holds it open so B can pass through. B thanks A. What could A say to B? Usually it would be something like "You're welcome". But often, A thanks B in return; they'll actually say "Thank you".

My question is: What is A thanking B for? B didn't do anything for A. It seems like excessive politeness. Oh, I'd rather they err on this side than be impolite, but what's the cultural transaction here? Are people taught to do this, or do they just sort of slip in to it unthinkingly, perhaps using "Thank you" as a sort of catch-all expression that can be applied to a wide range of polite circumstances that don't necessarily have much to do with actual literal gratitude? One wouldn't walk up to a friend one has just spotted on the street and say "Thank you" for the sake of being polite - so there are situations where it's definitely out of place. In my scenario above, it seems just as out of place and I could imagine a latter-day Monty Python team making fun of it:

• A opens door for B.
• B: Why, thank you.
• A: Thank you.
• B: What are you thanking me for, you stupid cow? I didn't do a damn thing for you. Now piss off and keep your irrelevant thanks to yourself. Oh, have a nice day. -- 202.142.129.66 (talk) 22:36, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I think you have answered your own question and given us a joke too. Thank you! Cuddlyable3 (talk) 22:42, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

I have noticed a number of times where people seem to use "thanks" not as a method for thanking but rather as a method of ending a conversation as quickly and politely as possible. Many times, it's when they're distracted and cannot put the normal level of thought in their speech. At first it caught me off guard as well, but I grew to use it myself (semi-consciously) because it really is more effective than quickly blurting out, "yesyourewelcomeImsorrybutIminabitofahurryrightnowbye". Matt Deres (talk) 23:12, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Isn't the logic of this is that you are 'thanking' them for thanking you (i.e. appreciating their being polite)? 194.221.133.226 (talk) 09:49, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Maybe. But then, shouldn't they thank you for thanking them? Where does it ever end? I mean, among polite people politeness is a given, a sine qua non of normal behaviour, and it's not something that merits especial praise or even acknowledgment, I would have thought. Like virtue, politeness is its own reward. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 09:56, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

[11]. Deor (talk) 16:06, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Deor, dat doesn't download downunder, dammit - but tks anyway. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 21:27, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, Jack. Here's the same sequence (and more) on YouTube. And thank yo! Deor (talk) 22:57, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Oh no, don't mention it. Thank you! -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 23:10, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

In some places, I think a "thank you" - with an appropriate measure of very pleasant surprise - is appropirate, because there is so little politeness and so much rudeness in some places. But, the problem with that is, it can easily become condescending; it's one thing to praise a child for being polite (as I did to one who was the only one to say "thank you" when I held the door open for a large group of kids once), another to a grown up.

I wonder if part of it is actually repetition. In our fast-paced lives, perhaps we are so harried and rushed that our minds can't quite conjure up the appropiate phrase ("you're welcome"), but we know that we're supposed to say *something* polite. So, in attempting to blurt something out that sounds polite, we accidentally mimic the "thanks" that we received from someone else. Does that sound plausible? Ir, is that just something I do at times becuase my brain is wired a bit differently?Somebody or his brother (talk) 16:20, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Sounds plausible to me. I doubt anyone's done a study of this sort of thing. It's only very odd people like me who ever notice it, I guess. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 21:27, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

personally, I always saw it as a thanks for recognizing the politeness. I mean, when you open the door for someone, and they walk through it with their nose in the air (as though it is only right and natural that a person such as you should defer to a person such as them), you just want to follow it up with a good, hard kick to the nearest available bodily surface. the extra thank you is thanks for acknowledging that it is politeness amongst equals. --Ludwigs2 21:35, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

In that circumstance, a loud, sarcastic and unsolicited "That's perfectly all right, you're very welcome, I'm sure" comes in handy. -- Jack of Oz ... speak! ... 22:19, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

February 5

Identify a Sumo Wrestler

This photo

I'm interested in determining the identity of the guy in the right of this photo (with the brace on his right leg). He has a really hairy chest, and then I noticed that he doesn't appear to be Asian. Is he like some Caucasian guy from New Jersey that decided to become a sumo wrestler? DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 04:27, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Category:American sumo wrestlers 75.41.110.200 (talk) 05:05, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

At first glance I thought it was Baruto, arguably the most famous white sumo wrestler in Japan, but on closer study it looks like Kotoōshū Katsunori, who's Bulgarian. Most white guys in Japanese sumo are European; most of the Americans are Hawaiian. FiggyBee (talk) 07:31, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Here are the results of that particular tournament. Could it be Kokkai Futoshi? Clarityfiend (talk) 07:55, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure it's Kotooshu. Kokkai is somewhat flabbier, and according to our article Kotooshu has a longstanding injury problem with his right knee, hence the brace. Compare Image:Sumo_May09_Kotooshu.jpg. FiggyBee (talk) 08:46, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

By the way, I love it how both mentioned wrestlers have ridiculously obvious names. Kotoōshū is just the stable prefix Koto- followed by the Japanese word for Europe (well, he is European, aint he?), and Baruto is just the Japanese word for Baltic with some fancy ateji because, well, the guy is Baltic after all :) --TomorrowTime (talk) 09:29, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

I enlarged the photo before reading your comments. I'm sure he is Kaloyan Mahlyanov (Kotoōshū). I am a Bulgarian and I'm not interested in sumo, so I wouldn't be able to recognise anyone or anything else related to sumo except Kaloyan. --62.204.152.181 (talk) 11:11, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Craigslist Job Listings

Why do most job listings on craiglist ask you to provide a credit report? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.129.139.60 (talk) 17:56, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

I don't believe most job listings ask for one. Actually, I rarely see a job listing which asks for one. --Quest09 (talk) 18:06, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

This could depend on the field in which a person is seeking a job. It would make sense for the employer to want a credit report for a person applying for a job that involves handling money, for example. Marco polo (talk) 18:40, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

I've never been asked to provide a credit report. Mind you I have never applied for a job through Craigslist. Make sure you don't give sensitive financial information to a prospective employer until you are sure that they are genuine. DJ Clayworth (talk) 21:45, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

I've never seen a job listing where I was asked to provide my credit report. However, prospective employers have ran my credit report themselves once I had given them my Social Security Number and signed a document allowing them to do so. This almost seems to be standard operating procedure for human resources these days. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 02:10, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

You should probably be alert for identity theft here (phishing)...be sure that this isn't some cunning trick to get your bank account details and social security number from you without there being a real job at the end of it. SteveBaker (talk) 01:25, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Those Japanese red and white striped　fabric panels

What is the name of those red and white striped fabric panels hung at formal events in Japan? 207.216.177.88 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:10, 5 February 2010 (UTC).

Could you provide a picture of these panels? I just checked out the banner article which led me to the Sashimono article. Do they look anything like that? Dismas|^(talk) 22:35, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

No, they're not sashimono. You can see them in the background in several photos here and here. 207.216.177.88 (talk) 01:02, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

that looks like plain old bunting to me. bunting often takes the colors of the national flag (red and white in japan's case; red white and blue in the US) put in some simple geometric pattern. --Ludwigs2 01:53, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Hmm. Bunting in Japanese is とばり, but I get no relevant Google image results and there's no J-Wiki article. 207.216.177.88 (talk) 02:05, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Ludwigs2 basically has it, (as far as the colours) see Consequences of the Genpei War which says:

"In addition, this war and its aftermath established red and white, the colors of the Taira and Minamoto standards, respectively, as Japan's national colors. Today, these colors can be seen on the flag of Japan, and also in banners and flags in sumo and other traditional activities." (my italics)

The Japanese name however is still eluding us. Japanese for "banner" is apparently Nobori (幟), this appears similar to a Sashimono but longer—220.101.28.25 (talk) 16:24, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

EUREKA! kōhakumaku (紅白幕) ! (Googled for "Japanese Banner") 4th page in had it, on Wikipedia!--220.101.28.25 (talk) 16:49, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Huzzah! I was in the middle of a long response when you found that, but here's what the Japanese article says, briefly summarized: the colours probably originate in the war flags carried by the Genji (red) and Taira (white), but also represent birth (aka=red, aka-chan=baby) and death (white), i.e: (a person's) life; the traditional clothing worn at weddings (red and white) and to bury the dead (white); and festive foods like sekihan (red rice) and kōhakumanju (a kind of sweet). Interestingly the article doesn't mention the Japanese flag as a source of the colours. Also, unlike bunting, which seems to have a kind of political connotation in that it's associated with political/national events, this stuff isn't generally associated with the emperor and prime minister or with national events like Coming of Age Day (whereas you do see Japanese flags at such events). While it's common at official events like graduation ceremonies, it's also used at outdoor tea ceremony events as a kind of barrier to or mark out the space where the event takes place. So I suppose it's accurate in English to call it a type of bunting (Japanese:とばり), since they are "festive decorations made of fabric," but in Japanese it's obviously conceptually a separate thing. Thanks! 207.216.177.88 (talk) 17:21, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

You're welcome, that was fun. re "Interestingly the article doesn't mention the Japanese flag as a source of the colours", the English Genpei War article says fairly straight out that the Genpei War is where the colours come from, but if our friends in Nippon are unsure? Genpei is also supposed to be the source for red and white in the Japanese national (and other) flags. Pretty much everything I have read (in English only) follows this line. Even in Japanese martial arts competitions red & white are frequently used to designate the opponents, and for the judges flags.
A large contributor to the Genpei article is User:LordAmeth "Masters in Japanese Studies"! Lived in Japan for a year and speaks Japanese!. LordAmeth actually wrote the section I quoted in my first reply! May be good to contact them if anything seems doubtful. —220.101.28.25 (talk) 00:47, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Haha. Thanks for contacting me. I suppose when you put it all out there like that, my credentials sound pretty darn impressive. But I'm still a student, and there are tons of things I don't know; very few things on which I would consider myself an expert. As for the Genpei War, that was one of the first articles I wrote, before most of those other things happened. In any case, I do get the impression that it's a pretty standard story to cite the origins of red & white as the two sides in a competition (e.g. sumo) back to the Genpei War. I get the impression that that is sort of the conventional wisdom. But, as for it being truly hard and fast historical fact, who knows? The events of the Genpei War have been heavily fictionalized and embellished, figures from the Tale of the Heike being turned into legends portrayed over and over again in literature and drama (and later, in TV and film) in all kinds of fictionalized, embellished, and skewed ways. Note the prominence of red and white in Takashi Miike's "Sukiyaki Western Django", a film which is based upon these legends.

I'm afraid I do not have on me right now the books from which I may have gotten that tidbit of information - namely, the idea that the Genpei War marked the origin of the use of red and white as national colors - so I am afraid that I cannot relate exactly what the context was, or exactly how it was phrased in that book. It is important to remember, however, that while red & white have played a major role in Japanese culture (as described by our OP several comments above, in the colors of birth and death, seen at weddings, eaten in sekihan, etc), there could not have been any 'national colors' until the 1860s, when there was first a (modern-style) nation-state of Japan. Up until the Meiji period, there was no "State of Japan" or "Empire of Japan" per se, and no national flag of Japan, as far as I know. The Tokugawa shogunate, and each shogunate and other ruling party before it, had their own crests and banners, their own symbols, and they ruled over a Japanese archipelago not united into a single solid nation-state as today, but united into a confederation perhaps more comparable to the original idea of the United States of America, each state (or feudal domain, in Japan's case) holding a considerable degree of semi-independence, and self-identity, with separate flags or banners, crests, etc.

In short, if kôhakumaku predate the Meiji period, and they might, they would have been derived from all these cultural associations, and perhaps from the red and white of the Taira and Minamoto as well, any 'national flag' or 'national colors' being not really a consideration yet.

Interesting stuff. Thanks for bringing it up. Some casual searching brought me to this website (in Japanese), which describes the various theories as to the origins of the use of red and white as standard colors. I should get back to my studies right now, but in a little while, if I find the time, I'll read it over and share what it has to say. (Anyone else is more than welcome to do so in my place, if they are so inclined.) Cheers. LordAmeth (talk) 03:08, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

I should have exclaimed 'Banzai!' or perhaps 'Sonnō jōi!, Ameth Sama. Thanks for getting back to us. Don't think I have heard of Sukiyaki Western Django, look forward to seeing it sometime. I would hazard a guess that a Stephen Turnbull book would be a likely source. But as you say regarding the website above, our Japanese friends aren't certain either! (Studies first absolutely!) Revere Wikipedia, Expel the Vandals!— 220.101.28.25 (talk) 07:22, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Lows getting me down

Friends, as you can see in this graphic, the high in New York on Friday will be 58°, and the low will be 42°. If I'm looking at that widget on Friday afternoon, can I be assured that it will be 42 some time before Saturday afternoon, or might that temperature have occurred at 1am Friday morning? Is there some convention for what period those high and low predictions cover? If you're obliged to guess whether the low is early Friday or late Friday the utility of the prediction is greatly reduced for no good reason.

Some weatherfolk make the graphic much more understandable by having the lows interstitial between the labelled days, like here, although I guess strictly speaking that could be misleading if we started having nights hotter than the days.

Thanks for any insight. --Sean 20:49, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure this uses the 'conventional' assertion that night is the period of darkness between dusk and dawn, not the 'analytical' assertion that night goes from dusk to midnight. As I used to say in college, it aint a new day till you've been to bed. of course, sometimes that meant it was still tuesday for me when everyone else was on friday, but there are flaws in any system. --Ludwigs2 21:39, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Your graphic certainly does not show the current weather in New York! To answer your question, though, if you are looking at your graphic on Friday, you do not know how low the temperature will get between then and Saturday afternoon. The reason is that when a high and low temperature are listed for a single day, they are indeed referring to the period between midnight and midnight for that day. Normally, the low temperature for a given day will occur around dawn. Normally, the high will occur in the early or mid-afternoon. Occasionally, especially in winter when a strong cold front arrives during the morning, the high temperature for the day will occur in the morning, and the low could be toward midnight of that day. But this is exceptional, and it doesn't change the convention that high and low for a given day are the high and low between midnight and midnight. Marco polo (talk) 02:50, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Trains vs. Cars

Why are some trains so much smoother than cars?

Rails rarely develop potholes. Or is this about their paint jobs? Dismas|^(talk) 23:57, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

You obviously haven't travelled on the square-wheeled trains that British Rail used to provide on some lines in the 1980's. Astronaut (talk) 01:55, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

this is a joke, right? I've seen pictures of square-wheeled small-gauge trains (it works just fine if the track is designed as a cycloid, and it has novelty value), but I can't imagine anyone would go to the effort of making a commercial grade system. --Ludwigs2 02:06, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Yes, that's a joke. I'm sure the trains never really had square wheels, but often the ride was far from smooth and definitely worse that I once experienced on a rutted gravel road in a car some years later. Astronaut (talk) 02:12, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Have you ever taken the subway from Manhattan to Brooklyn? I'd be interested to hear how it compares. --Trovatore (talk) 22:51, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

more to the point, it's much easier (and much more cost-effective, and much more important) to keep rails in true than to keep highways in repair. a flaw in a roadway will give you a jounce, whereas a flaw in railway can cause a multi-million dollar wreck. --Ludwigs2 01:57, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

I think the other part of it is weight. When your car hits a bump, the suspension compresses to try to avoid transmitting the force to the body and thence to the passengers. But the body of a train carriage is a lot heavier than a car body - there is a lot more inertia for the springs to overcome, (F=ma - so for the same force, a larger mass undergoes a smaller acceleration) so the ride is smoother. SteveBaker (talk) 03:22, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Also, there is usually suspension between the trucks or bogies carrying the wheels (whose "unsprung weight" is an often-quoted technical specification of rail vehicles) and the body of the carriage, both for passenger comfort and to lessen rail damage caused by a jolted-up wheel when it returns to full contact (similar to Hammer blow).

Astronaut's "square wheels" was a humorous hyperbole referring to the results of brake seizure. If a carriage (or locomotive) wheel brake seizes up, the wheel is dragged along the rail without rotation ('wheel slide', as opposed to 'wheel slip' where the wheel loses traction and spins faster than it should) until the brake is freed: this can grind a flat spot into the otherwise smoothly circular steel tyre of the wheel; the longer the seizure, the larger/deeper the flat spot. Once the wheel resumes normal rotation, every time the flat spot hits the rail a jolt is transmitted, which can range from barely noticeable to so severe as to necessitate slowing the train and retiring the carriage asap for repair. (Yes, the legendary schoolchild's excuse for lateness, "The train had a flat tyre", could sometimes be true.)

Modern improvements to train braking systems have greatly reduced instances of seizure and consequent flats, and while in even-more-straightened rail industry times less-than-incapacitating flats might have been ignored for some time, such flats as do now occur are probably rectified more promptly, so the phenomenon is rarer. At the same time, jointed rails which caused a jolt at each joint have increasingly been replaced by Continuous welded rail, eliminating those jolts also.87.81.230.195 (talk) 12:22, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

On the point about "square wheels", caused by braking. I remember on a vist to the Temple Mills#Railway works as a child, seeing a huge machine like a giant pencil-sharpener that made them round again. Alansplodge (talk) 17:36, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

hunh. how would that work? I mean, I think it would be particularly important to have train wheels be precisely the same size (otherwise the train would list in odd and dangerous ways), so any 'grinding down' process would seem to be prohibited. --Ludwigs2 22:43, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

The amount of grinding would be rather small - and the procedure might be preceded by laying in some weld metal to first build up the surface. Also, assuming we're talking about carriage wheels (not locomotive wheels) - they come in pairs with a solid axle. Providing they grind down both wheels to the same diameter, there would be no leaning - and the bogies are not rigidly fixed to the carriage so a tiny amount of forward/backward tilt due to one pair of wheels being a fraction of an inch smaller than the other would hardly matter. SteveBaker (talk) 01:22, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

It is interesting that two carriage wheels joined by a solid axle can follow curves where it would seem that the wheel on the outer rail needs to turn faster than the wheel on the inner rail. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 16:58, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

February 6

Non-refrigerated lime juice

I have this bottle of Rose's Lime Juice from concentrate that I opened this past Monday, and it wasn't refrigerated. My friend says it should be all right because it's "not pure lime juice." I figure it's probably not still good. Any smartheads have answers? Someoneinmyheadbutit'snotme (talk) 03:05, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

"If in doubt, don't", a maxim which applies equally well to flying light aircraft, sexual liaisons, and stuff left out of the fridge. FiggyBee (talk) 03:32, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

The nose knows. Plus, isn't that stuff pure sugar anyway? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.54.94.107 (talk) 04:14, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

We've got an article for that: Rose's lime juice. You should check the bottle for labels and warnings. And we are not offering any advice about whether or not it's safe. Shadowjams (talk) 07:28, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Is there a consumer info telephone number on the bottle? BrainyBabe (talk) 10:51, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

I concur with 208. Close as I can figure, the only stuff that is bad for you but won't give it away by smell are things you wouldn't normally think to eat to begin with. Vranak (talk) 11:28, 6 February 2010 (UTC) Postscript: I deleted my comment because I don't want to be upbraided for it, but it was restored, presumably by the user below. So, I know -- dangerously irresponsible yadda yadda yadda. Vranak (talk) 15:53, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

(ec)A related issue was discussed recently (Feb. 1) at the Science Desk HERE. See also Shelf Life. --220.101.28.25 (talk) 11:37, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm not a smarthead but I am certain that you need to think about three things. Does the 'lime juice' look abnormal or unusual? cloudiness or the visual presence of mould will alert you to a possible problem. Does it smell different from previously? Has anyone else or anything obvious got into the bottle since you used it? If you are happy with these questions then go for it and use it. The chances of a harmful organism contaminating your 'lime juice' in a couple of days (or much longer) is vanishingly small. For many years I have kept bottles of 'fruit juice' concentrate in non-refrigerated bottles for months, as millions do, and I have never in decades had a problem with any form of contamination. The other question I ask myself is why have you not just dumped the stuff and made some more?!! Richard Avery (talk) 13:43, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

[12] says "In 1867, Lauchlin Rose patented a process for sweetening and preserving lime juice. That same year, Britain passed the Merchant Shipping Act, requiring all ships to carry rations of lime juice for their crews. Rose’s sales soared, maritime scurvy was largely eradicated, and the world was bequeathed the enduring epithet 'limey.' ” From this one can deduce that the unrefrigerated preservation time of Rose's Lime Juice is longer than the time for onset of Scurvy. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 14:39, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Long live the Limeys!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.4.186.107 (talk) 22:39, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks guys, I'm just gonna go for, it looks and smells fine. Someoneinmyheadbutit'snotme (talk) 05:23, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Collection of free, high-quality computer fonts

Can someone suggest a collection of versatile, high-quality, and freely available computer fonts? The collection doesn't have to be large—something on the order of 3 to 4 dozens will be enough. The fonts should be free of duplications or near-duplications—if there are two fonts in the collections, they should be stylistically far enough apart to make it make sense to include both. Thanks. --173.49.16.103 (talk) 03:41, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

See [13] but beware of Godwins law (Video). Cuddlyable3 (talk) 14:25, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Indian food

Do people of other Nations like to have Indian food?

thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.197.248.68 (talk) 11:06, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

I can answer a little bit for the U.S. and Britain. Yes. Britain certainly has its share of Indian restaurants. The U.S. does too, although the density is almost directly linear to the Indian population. I have no evidence for that, other than living in the U.S. A bunch of people are going to give you some personal experiences.

Here's mine. As for the U.S., I can give you some vague ideas. Indian food has two hurdles to overcome. 1) Heat and 2) Curry. Among young people in major metro areas neither is a problem. I would say confidently that most major U.S. cities are quite comfortable with Indian food. In mid-size metro areas, especially in Texas and the South, that the curry element might dissuade some older people. There are lots of Indian immigrants in the U.S. so U.S. tastes will depend on age and how soon those restaurants became normal. In the southern U.S., Mexican food is commonplace, as it is in California. But in the American north east, my personal experience is that Mexican food is nowhere near as widespread. Same goes for other cuisines. Shadowjams (talk) 11:21, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

According to Britain's Food Standards Agency, the Indian food industry in the United Kingdom is worth £3.2 billion, accounts for two-thirds of all eating out and serves about 2.5 million British customers every week. So I'd say Indian food is quite popular over here. Vimescarrot (talk) 11:24, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Anecdotally it seems to have grown in popularity here in Canada over the past five years. I suppose I see more Indian recipes, and advertisments abound for Indian ingredients, and there's more Indian cooks appearing on television, and I personally have been to Indian restaurants dozens of times in that time period, but before 2005, never. It's just so different to your usual White Person fare, and delicious, that it's no surprise how popular it has become. Vranak (talk) 11:25, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Indian cuisine such as whale meat or sacred bear[14] cooked in an empty bison stomach is seldom served in America these days. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 14:13, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Ah yes, one does have to be careful about being ambiguous around here. Sounds a little like haggis actually;-) —220.101.28.25 (talk) 14:40, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

If you had a stuffed whale stomach, that would be one big honkin' Inuit haggis. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:26, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Dunno where you're from Cuddly but here in Canada we refer to our red men as 'Native', 'First Nations', or 'Aboriginal'. We don't duplicate Columbus' error in perpetuity. Vranak (talk) 15:50, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

But I think you in Canada still do that. Quote: "In this (1982 Constitution) Act, 'aboriginal peoples of Canada' includes the Indian, Inuit and Métis peoples of Canada." Cuddlyable3 (talk) 02:42, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

There is/are apparently a sizable number of American Indians, at least, who don't mind at all being called Indians. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:24, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

I am aware, but if people sat down and thought about how that appellation came into being, perhaps they would refrain from perpetuating it. Vranak (talk) 17:14, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm sure the American Indians who are fine with it are also fully aware of the (possibly purposeful) use of that term by ol' Chris. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:50, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Believing that word meanings that have lately developed and are in dictionaries can now be reversed is like inviting Wikipedians to gay intercourse. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 15:20, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Well all I'm saying is that each of us can choose to go around perpetuating a piece of idiocy, or refuse to accept the status quo. Nevermind what the people themselves think or say. It's not about political correctness, it's about knowing your history and not going along the moronic masses. Vranak (talk) 15:29, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

There are those who think that those who adhere to political correctness are the real lemmings. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:31, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and by the way... "red men"? That term is practically obsolete in the USA, as it's pretty close to "redskins", which is only heard now in connection with a football team in Washington, DC. Also, the activist group American Indian Movement doesn't seem to have a problem with that term. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 15:38, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

This is me giving up on you Bugs! Vranak (talk) 16:00, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Oh, come on, you can do better than that. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:14, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Is it polite even in Canada to call people "moronic masses"?

File:Ape shaking head.gif Cuddlyable3 (talk) 17:10, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

People always think that when someone talks disparagingly about groups that it doesn't apply to them. So no harm, no foul. Vranak (talk) 17:31, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

We Brits had a bit of a head start with Indian food; our involvement in the Indian Empire meant that Anglo-Indian dishes like curry, kedgeree and mulligatawny were on the menu in most Victorian middle-class families. A history of Indian food in Britain is here[15]. It is truly part of our national culture now; I am writing this from the Hertfordshire village of Cuffley (population: 4,925) which boasts two Indian restaurants. Alansplodge (talk) 17:19, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Most anything would beat kidney pie, I should think. Lutefisk with curry. Mmmm... ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:50, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

It's actually "Steak and Kidney Pie" and it's really delicious when cooked properly. It's one of the few items of British cuisine that my French wife likes to cook (and you know how the French are about food!). Please don't knock it unless you've tried it.

Certainly Indian food is insanely popular in the UK. It would be hard to find even a fairly small village without at least one Indian restaurant. There is no doubt that this was originally popularized by people returning home from the British rule over India - but subsequently, the popularity has grown immensely. Sadly, I have to say that a large part of the reason for this lies in the British pub/bar licensing laws. Since the pubs shut before people have really finished partying - they look for other places where they can carry on drinking. Because restaurants are covered by different laws, they can continue to serve beer (with food) long after the pubs have had to shut. Since Indian restaurants are only too happy to serve beer and the phrase "Let's go for a curry afterwards!" is heard throughout British pubs around closing time! Don't get me wrong though - the food is very popular too and it's available as take-out - and all of the ingredients for cooking it yourself can be found in any British supermarket. Here in the US, Indian restaurants are nowhere near so common and tend to be somewhat more up-market. For a long time when I lived in the Dallas/Fort-Worth metroplex, there were only about 3 Indian restaurants serving a population of about 6 million people! They are becoming more common - but still nothing close to the scale in the UK. Finding ingredients for cooking your own Indian-style food is getting easier - but generally you need to find a supermarket that specializes in that kind of thing if you want something reasonably authentic. Some of the best food I've ever eaten comes from a very modest Indian restaurant in a strip-mall near where I live that serves only vegetarian food...it's truly amazing stuff. SteveBaker (talk) 00:57, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm sure kidney pie is good. I was just alluding to the fact that British cuisine has a reputation for being bland, and that the Brits' embracing of Indian food probably speaks to that at least in part. John Cleese was once asked why the British never developed great cuisine, and he said, "Well, we had an empire to run, you see!" There are only so many hours in the day. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:55, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

For a hilarious Anglo-Indian view of English cuisine, look here :). -- Arwel Parry (talk) 12:17, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

British food is certainly not bland anymore than all Americans live on burgers and coke.hotclaws 11:30, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

We do, actually. :) The old saw is, "If your guests are French, serve Italian. If they're Italian, serve French. And if they're English, boil anything." ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:10, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

A rustier saw is: In Heaven the British are soldiers, the French cook the food, the Germans make the machines, the Italians are lovers and the Swiss count the money. In Hell the Italians are soldiers, the British cook the food, the French make the machines, the Italians count the money and the Swiss are lovers. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 15:32, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

British cuisine has given the world some outstanding dishes - fish and chips, kedgeree, toad in the hole - and of course the ever-popular chicken tikka masala. Gandalf61 (talk) 15:33, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Balvenie Vintage Cask Listing

Dear Sirs;

I maintain a listing of The Blavenie Vintage Casks. I have gathered this information from all over the world, some from printed material, most from other people who own these bottles and some from my own collection. Being that William Grant (the owners of Balvenie) does not provide anything of this sort and I have no official standing with them, how do I make this information available to others who may be interested in it? I had posted in the Balvenie page but your person in charge of watching that page, GreyWyvern, deemed it "ripe for vandels" and since I had no authoritative citings, removed it.

If you wish to see the listing I can provide a copy at your request. Since this is a "living" document I do updates when I get further information from other collectors.

Please respond to: email address removed

Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.142.130.39 (talk) 15:18, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm afraid the Wikipedia is not the place for this information, as Wikipedia does not allow original research. If you can get your collection written up in a referred journal, it could be referenced in Wikipedia, but not otherwise. Please see WP:RS. I'm sure there are other places on the web, but not here.

Incidentally, there is nobody "in charge of watching" any page. All editors, including you and me, can edit any page, and can (and should) remove material that does not meet Wikipedia's standards. --ColinFine (talk) 15:42, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

There are lots of places on the web (some of them free) where you could maintain your list. Why not approach William Grant & Sons about including your list on the Balvenie website? Dbfirs 16:32, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

You could establish a blog at a service like Blogger or start a website at Google Sites or the like, and post and maintain your data, and try to promote it in order to make the information more known. Comet Tuttle (talk) 18:24, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Try contacting the Scotch Malt Whisky Society [www.smws.co.uk], who should be able to help with this as they publish a magazine. --TammyMoet (talk) 18:40, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

GreyWyvern was doing the right thing by removing this information - it certainly doesn't belong here. So now you need to either find an existing website that might be interested in hosting your information (and I agree that asking William Grant & Son whether they are interested in hosting it is a reasonable idea)...or you have to get a website of your own. That's something that costs money to do well (I pay $10 a month for web hosting) - or something you can probably get for free if you don't mind being littered with adverts and limited in how you design your site. But Wikipedia is not a place to do that. Sorry! SteveBaker (talk) 01:58, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Soccer own goals

Watching the Man United V Portsmouth game and Portsmouth are down as having scored 3 OG's and was wondering what is the most amount of OG's scored in a soccer game? And not the 149 scored in protest I mean legitimate ones, Thanks BigDunc 17:10, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Side question: What match had 149 OGs scored? I googled "149 OGs" and didn't see anything. Comet Tuttle (talk) 18:25, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Answer to side question: "AS Adema defeated Stade Olymique L'Emyrne (SOE) 149-0 in 2002, without scoring a goal themselves. SOE started scoring own goals in protest of bad refereeing decisions..." - Jarry1250 ^{[Humorous? Discuss.]} 18:29, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

(ec) AS Adema 149–0 SO l'Emyrne. Nanonic (talk) 18:30, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Nice, thanks; glad we have an article. I added to its talk page a request for some future editor to explain what the protest was about. Comet Tuttle (talk) 19:11, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

One would think the refs would have stopped the match when it was clear that one team was making a mockery of it. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:37, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Three own goals in one match has happened on a few occasions: Stan Van Den Buys managed three on his own. Some internet reports claimed that there were four own goals in Rangers' Champions League match against Unirea Urziceni earlier this season, but reports in the newspapers only have three. Warofdreams talk 21:28, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

@ Bugs, the referee is unable to stop a game for such a reason. The rules don't allow it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.4.186.107 (talk) 22:38, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Really? I thought the referee could abandon a match for any reason, as well. I guess that's not the case. Xenon54 / talk / 22:42, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

The idea that the refs are not in charge of the game doesn't make sense. If the officials see that the match is being played as a farce, they could state as much and walk off the field and go home. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:42, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Yes, and they could also lay about the offending players with clubs. In either case they would be overstepping their authority under the laws of the game, and would be subject to disciplinary action by their FA. The laws allow the ref to abandon the game due to infringements of the laws or due to outside interference, not because he's decided the game is a farce. Algebraist 00:51, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Then the refs are not in charge of the game, the players are. Something's wrong there. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:48, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Here's a Snopes writeup about a team that was able to advance in a tournament by scoring a goal against itself.[16] This kind of thing, along with the bizarre notion that players can show up the refs and that the refs are powerless to do anything about, is one more example of why soccer is not taken seriously in the USA. In American sports, any player suspected of deliberately trying to lose, or to do something outrageous to show up the officials, I assure you would be tossed from the game and likely given a long suspension. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:56, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

The official FIFA rules [17] say that: "The referee [...] stops, suspends or abandons the match, at his discretion, for any infringements of the Laws", that "A referee (or where applicable, an assistant referee or fourth oficial) is not held liable for: [...] a decision to abandon a match for whatever reason" and that "A player is cautioned and shown the yellow card if he commits any of the following seven offences :

• unsporting behaviour

• dissent by word or action

• persistent infringement of the Laws of the Game

[...]"

Based on this, I beg to differ with Algebraist. Persistantly and deliberatly scoring own goals as an act of protest against the ref would very likely be dissent by action, which is an infringement of the Laws. That allows the ref to abandon the match. /Coffeeshivers (talk) 02:01, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

That makes sense. What doesn't make sense is why the refs let it go on and on. Unless they thought it was funny. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:11, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

It was certainly unsporting behaviour. Scoring one own goal because you believe your team benefitted unfairly from a refereering mistake is one thing, but to make a mockery of a whole match because you are miffed is quite another, but not in the least surprising in a game like football. You wouldn't see that kind of silliness on a rugby pitch. DuncanHill (talk) 02:21, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

No there'd never be any mockery of the spirit of the game in rugby...Bloodgate comes to mind, as does Kevin Yates (biting the ear of an opponent isn't exactly sporting). That said footballers do have a bit of a respect problem in terms of how they treat match officials and could learn a lot from the way that rugby players (for the most part) get on with the game regardless of the ref's decision. ny156uk (talk) 09:32, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

The Snopes writeup was about a game that was indeed a farce but there was no protest involved, they were just trying to exploit a loophole in the rules. Vaguely reminds me an NHL game at the end of the 1969-70 season, where the Montreal Canadiens needed to score a certain number of goals to make the last remaining playoff spot, even if they lost. So, down 5-2 or some such against the Chicago Blackhawks, the Canadiens pulled their goalie with 9 1/2 minutes to go, in favor of an extra attacker, and suddenly the game turned into basketball. The effort was futile, as the Habs failed to score and gave up 5 empty-netters (still an NHL record as far as I know). But the game was played fairly and under the rules. In the 149-0 soccer game, the refs, after about the third one of those deliberate own-goals, should have said, "Stop it or the match is over now," instead of just letting it roll on. In the old days of baseball, and even sometimes in recent times, a team might be angry at some situation and either refuse to take the field or pull its team off the field, and if they refuse to play, then the game's over and they forfeit. No beating around the bush. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:33, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

This report suggests that the Fédération Malagasy de Football were likely to declare the 149-0 game "null and void". In fact, the losing team's coach and some players were suspended, but the referee was not punished - I'll add this info to the article. Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:53, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Now done. Ghmyrtle (talk) 10:51, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

But, Bugs, in American football, teams score safeties against themselves all the time to give themselves an advantage in kickoff space. Woogee (talk) 06:50, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Of course they do. Why do you think it's called a "safety"? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:08, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

The original rule was that if you took a safety, you got the ball back on the 20, as it was treated as a touchback. When one team, leading 7-0, took three consecutive safeties to run the clock out, the rule was changed that you have to kick the ball away from your 20. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:17, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

• Back to the OP anyone now what was the most OG'S scored? BigDunc 10:55, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Bird Song

I am composing a song with FL Studio and it starts out with a sort of natural sound of waves crashing and some birds singing. However, I havent been able to find any good clip of birds calling out, despite looking on YouTube for a few hours. Does anyone know birds well enough to reccommend a type of bird to look for? i want something that sounds soothing, relaxing, not harsh. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!

137.81.112.254 (talk) 20:03, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Australian magpie song in the late afternoon is good. But unfortunately no one has recorded songs for you here! Graeme Bartlett (talk) 21:08, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Blackbird, Robin, Mistle Thrush, Blackcap, Willow Warbler, Skylark. --TammyMoet (talk) 21:11, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Are you specifically looking for songbirds, or just any sort of bird call? With waves crashing in the begining, seagulls might be an appropriate choice. Another waterbird with a very distinctive call is the common loon. I find it soothing, but I think that some people find it a bit spooky. Ducks can have nice vocals too, though at that point you're a long way from "birds singing". Buddy431 (talk) 21:43, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Taking an audio clip from a YouTube video would almost certainly be a breach of copyright. You shouldn't do that. However, Wikipedia's sister project "Wiki Commons" has an impressive collection of birdsong audio clips - all of which may be used in your song with a fairly reasonable set of restrictions (like you have to credit them). Check out [18] - and please do check the rules for their use, which is listed at the bottom of every page. SteveBaker (talk) 00:05, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Surely taking a brief clip of birds calling would be fair use? Woogee (talk) 06:51, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Not necessarily. Fair Use laws are complicated and highly contextual. Because we're not allowed to give legal advice, I could only recommend you seek an experienced copyright lawyer if you intend to claim "Fair Use". SteveBaker (talk) 18:03, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Thats what i was wondering. I don't intend to pretend that i recorded some sound clip, i just want some nice birds to go with the start of the song. 137.81.112.254 (talk) 10:03, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

It doesn't matter whether you pretend to have recorded it yourself or whether you acknowledge the person who made the original recording - it's still a copyright violation unless you either obtain a license to use the material or can claim exception under the (complicated and tricky) "Fair Use" provisions. SteveBaker (talk) 18:03, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

As a note, i like the robin as suggested byTammyMoet, but i also acknowledge the idea that the bird should be water related, as Buddy431 says.

137.81.112.254 (talk) 10:20, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

The BBC (and probably others) used to publish themed LPs of various sounds specifically intended for general use as sound effects in, for example, play performances: these certainly included volumes of various individual and background bird calls, dawn choruses etc. You could try googling on Sound Effects Libraries or some variations thereof, or consult, say, a local theatre which might have similar recordings (probably now digital) for their own use. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 11:10, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Those recordings (of which I own a few) specifically DO NOT allow you to sell reproductions of them. They aren't copyright free - you are given very specific rights (eg to use them in live performances) - but specifically denied others. This case - which involves re-recording and subsequent distribution - is explicitly forbidden. SteveBaker (talk) 18:03, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Matchboxes

Why are matchboxes often divided into two sections? —Preceding unsigned comment added by SamUK (talk • contribs) 22:37, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

To keep the matches tidy. (More convenient as a double-box divided internally than as a long narrow box.) Dbfirs 22:39, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

I haven't noticed any dual section matchboxes but it seems a good idea to provide a compartment to collect used matches rather than creating more litter or mixing used with unused. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 02:25, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Judging by the OP's username, I'm curious if this is a UK thing. I've never seen a matchbox with two sections here in the US. Dismas|^(talk) 04:47, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Well I've never seen one in the UK, but I've probably seen less than ten boxes in my whole life. Vimescarrot (talk) 10:27, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

In the UK, I think these divisions only occur in large boxes of matches for household use such as these, rather than the usual small boxes. Dbfirs is correct. Ghmyrtle (talk) 10:36, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Yes, boxes of Cook's Matches are divided by a cardboard divider across the width (shorter dimension) of the box. It may be relevant that Cook's Matches are short matches - slightly less than the width of the box - so the purpose of the divider may be to prevent the matches all sliding down to one end of the box. Bryant and May sell matches in a similar size box, but they are longer - almost as long as the box - and the box is not divided. Gandalf61 (talk) 10:57, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

(EC) This certainly used to be common in the UK of the mid-to-late 20th century, back before the ubiquity of cheap disposable lighters and piezoelectric appliance ingiters when matches were an essential everyday tool. Very broadly, matches intended to be carried in the pocket (by cigarette smokers or others) were more often safety matches (requiring a chemical impregnating the box's striking surface to ignite, so that they would not be ignited by being jostled around), were usually short (since cigarettes light quickly), and commonly came in single-compartment boxes of around 40. Household matches (for lighting fires, gas stoves, paraffin heaters, etc) were more often non-safety matches (that would light on any rough surface), were longer (as fireplace fuels, for example, may take longer to ignite) and often came in larger capacity boxes (say, 100) which were for both latter reasons larger and often divided in half across their shorter dimension, in part (I assume) to minimise spillages if the box were dropped. There were of course many exceptions to these rough categories. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 11:00, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Two iconic brands in the UK (funny how we can get so attached to something that mundane); Swan Vesta which are subdivided and England's Glory which aren't. Alansplodge (talk) 15:28, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

February 7

Sovereign Immunity

With regards to Sovereign immunity in the United States, I don't exactly understand the premise behind such a law other than the obvious bias that anyone (or organization, for that matter) would love to exclude itself from following any law that could result in a loss. I watched some recent CNN video about the Navy–Vieques protests, and disregarding the facts of the case, if it can be taken as a given that the US would be liable if they could be taken to court, what is the conceptual basis for such immunity, other than the US government being above the law? DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 01:28, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

If the fed were not generally immune to suits as per the provisions of these laws, try to imagine how much your tax dollars would increase to cover the costs of the endless suits filed against the government for every cockamamie thing anyone could think of. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:04, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

The Sovereignty exercised by Sovereign states (here is a list of them) is having supreme, independent authority over a territory. It can be found in a power to rule and make law that rests on a political fact for which no purely legal explanation can be provided. The US has so far chosen not to submit to any ruling by International Criminal Court. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 02:18, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Bullies do not like to comply with anyone else's directives. Edison (talk) 04:20, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

This flag dips for no earthly king. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:51, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Really? 220800 22:34:43 - 22:47:38 1968 COL SIL White House and Riots in D.C. following assassination of Martin Luther King South side of White House, fountain in foreground, flag flying at half mast on White House.(source).Cuddlyable3 (talk) 15:58, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Half-staff is not dipping. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:42, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

...and I can't possibly convey how deeply impressed the rest of the world is with that. (sheesh!) SteveBaker (talk) 17:52, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Ninjas

How did real life ninjas have all the crazy powers? --75.28.169.54 (talk) 02:05, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Check out the linked article, and don't believe everything you see in the movies. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:09, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

What crazy powers, praytell? Vranak (talk) 12:52, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Disappearing, shapeshifting, etc. --75.28.53.135 (talk) 13:13, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Post-production special effects. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:07, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

They have real ultimate power!! Adam Bishop (talk) 14:24, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Or they had good publicists who spread those rumors. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:25, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

I was thinking that the false assumption built into the question would be a little like asking, "How do Santa's reindeer fly in real life?" ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:26, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

OK, straightforward answer: They could presumably do anything a martial arts master can do. They could not do anything that humans cannot do, such as disappering, shape-shifting, or whatever. That stuff was a fable. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:28, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm going to suspend my disbelief and assume this question was asked in earnest. Where do you get the idea that ninjas can disappear or shapeshift? Moreover, where do you get the impression that ninjas even exist in contemporary society? Vranak (talk) 14:44, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

His question was in the past tense. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:55, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Alright. I'm done here. Vranak (talk) 15:06, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

The Ninjas were merely well-trained fighters with some cleverly designed gadgets and an unconventional approach to combat for that era. They made their money hiring themselves out as bodyguards, assassins and general mercenaries. Hence it was in their interests to encourage rumors about these supernatural abilities...whether they had them or not. When some important guy gets assassinated by Ninjas, his bodyguards would of course claim that the attackers had super powers! So a Ninja who merely remembered to stay in the shadows and to wear clothing that blended in to his surroundings would inflate his ability to "becoming invisible" or "changing shape". Popular culture has inflated these claims still further and movie special-effects and camera trickery are inflating these claims still further. So we may be very sure that Ninjas did not in fact do anything that any reasonably fit, well-trained, intelligent human couldn't do. SteveBaker (talk) 17:50, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Digital home audio recorders

Are there any home audio components that record digitally, non-compressed (i.e. not MP3) onto a hard drive or into RAM, and can then burn a CD? Bubba73 ^{(You talkin' to me?)}, 05:56, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

That is, it has phono jack inputs. And instead of burning a CD directly, it would be OK to transfer an audio file to the computer to burn the CD. Bubba73 ^{(You talkin' to me?)}, 06:23, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Alternatively, a 1/4" stereo line-level input will work. Bubba73 ^{(You talkin' to me?)}, 06:36, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

You can or could get stand alone audio CD recorders [19], however unless they are professional models they usually require special CDs which cost more (nowadays probably an extreme amount more) because they require royalties to the record companies under the assumption anyone using them most be copying music without the copyright owner's permission (and also because they are rather rare). However these record fairly directly and don't keep the content on a HD first. And they probably generally can't be paused. So I'm not sure if this will fulfill your requirements. You can of course just use a computer, is there any reason this isn't sufficient? If you need the device to be highly portable or discreet, perhaps some sort of netbook or nettop or PVR/media computer? I don't know if they usually come with audio in (well the PVR/media computer would), but a USB soundcard should provide that. It sounds likely to be easier and maybe even cheaper then some sort of stand alone HDD audio recording device. If you need it to be more portable then that (although 'home' and the use of a hard drive suggests to me it's for a fixed location) [20] may help although it's fairly old, and [21] provides some pointers and there seem to be many such devices usually with mics but sometimes also with line-in, e.g. [22]. It may help if you more clearly specify what you want. I get you want uncompressed (which probably isn't that hard particularly if the product has a HD) and the ability to burn CDs and a phono input or stereo line-level input, but I'm confused by the rest, e.g. why you didn't just think of a computer. Are you wanting something with an amplifier or that functions like a home theater receive in addition to the ability to record? Nil Einne (talk) 11:12, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

I doubt this stuff about special CDs, by the way. I also endorse just using your PC to record the uncompressed audio. Comet Tuttle (talk) 15:44, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

I have a stand-alone CD recorder, but I don't want to record to directly to CD because of editing and reliability issues. I want to hook into an audio system rather than use a computer. I need to look at those links in more detail, but that is at least close to what I want (but I don't need portability or built-in mikes and I'd rather have it powered by A/C than batteries). Bubba73 ^{(You talkin' to me?)}, 16:34, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

(EC) So for clarification, you want something that is capable of recording and also functions as an amplifier and receiver? Such a device may exist although I should warn you that you're usually limited in your ability to record from HDMI and even S/PDIF which may discourage people from buying such devices and therefore vendors from bothering to make them Nil Einne (talk) 16:52, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

No, to hook into a home audio system, but does not need an amplifier or receiver. Think of replacing a cassette deck. Bubba73 ^{(You talkin' to me?)}, 16:56, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

The existance and requirement of special music CDs for stand alone consumer audio recorders is well documented [23] [24] [25] [26] [27] [28], I've even seen them in a physical shop before if the Amazon and manufacturer links aren't enough to convince you. It is basically a legal requirement in the US AFAIK thanks to the Audio Home Recording Act which mandated the Serial Copy Management System amongst other things. So I'm not really sure what there is to doubt... It's possible that it's easier to buy stand alone devices that don't need music CDs nowadays particularly outside the US (I don't know, it's just a random guess), but this is of course a different matter. Nil Einne (talk) 16:52, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

That's absolutely not true. Sure, I've seen the "special for Music" CD-R's in stores too - and I've had a good laugh at the idiots who buy them. I am almost 100% sure it doesn't make the slightest bit of difference whether you use one of those or a regular recordable CD. Bits are just bits and it doesn't matter a damn what they contain! The "Orange Book" standard (See Rainbow Books - which I contributed to when I worked on the Philips Research team that made the first ever CD-ROM player) - covers both music CD's and data CD's and there is absolutely no mention in there about needing "special" disks for music versus data (the whole reason the book is "Orange" is because it's a standard that encompasses the "Red Book" standard for CD audio and the "Yellow Book" standard for CD-ROM - it's called "ORANGE" because it merges the CD-audio and CD-ROM standards and adds the specifications for recordable media). A CD recorder that refused to record music to both CD-R and CD-RW would be in breach of those rules and would be in violation of the license they pay to Philips/SONY for the privilage of using their patents.

There are two considerations that MIGHT matter (but I doubt it):

• One is that there are a wild variety of recordable formats (CD-R, CD-RW, etc) and not all players can record on all kinds at all speeds. That might mean that for your recorder, CD-R's don't work but the ones labelled "For Music" happen to work because they are CD-RW rather than CD-R or something.
• The other possibility is that since these "For Music" CD's are three times the price of regular recordable CD's - they might maybe be of higher quality.

However, I don't believe there is any technical reason that you need different kinds of media for recording music.

The Serial Copy Management System only prevents digital-to-digital copying and doesn't have anything to do with the media that's used - it's prevented inside the electronics of digital-to-digital recorders and has nothing whatever to do with analog recording.

IMHO, these "For Music" CD's are appealing to the same gang of idiot audiophiles who think that gold-plated USB connectors add more "depth" and "presence" to digital recordings than the regular kind of USB cables. These are people who are just begging to be ripped-off and the industry is more than happy to print "MUSIC!" on the side of a box of regular CD's and charge them three times as much for the privilage.

SteveBaker (talk) 17:41, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Browsing Wikipedia on a PSP-2003

When I occasionally browse wikipedia on my PSP when I'm away from my computer, I can only type so much before the little triangle to the right of my cursor prevents me from typing any more. Why is this? It's fairly annoying, as I can't edit text longer than a few hundred words or so. Maybe I should stick to my computer, although my PSP is pretty handy for just viewing articles. Chevymontecarlo (talk) 10:12, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

why do so many more female infants than male infants die in China?

In almost all other countries, it's the opposite. More male infants die than female infants. Here are some CIA Factbook figures.

  American:
   male: 6.94 deaths/1,000 live births
   female: 5.55 deaths/1,000 live births
 
  Taiwanese rates:
   male: 5.64 deaths/1,000 live births
   female: 5.04 deaths/1,000 live births (2009 est.)

  The Pakistani rates are almost even:
  male: 65.24 deaths/1,000 live births
  female: 65.05 deaths/1,000 live births (2009 est.)

  China stands out:
   male: 18.87 deaths/1,000 live births
   female: 21.77 deaths/1,000 live births

What's going on?

12thdegree (talk) 11:56, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

One child policy#Side effects on female population perhaps? Mitch Ames (talk) 12:12, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Considering that Taiwan is 5.64/5.04 = 1.119; US (I presume) is 6.94/5.55 = 1.250; Pakistan is 65.24/65.05 = 1.003; China is 0.8668; I would say both Pakistan and China seem fairly different from the two fairly developed countries. China to a greater extreme of course. Looking at more examples:

Hidden so I don't affect the readibility of the RD too much

India (2009 est.) [29] male: 49.33 deaths/1,000 live births female: 52.4 deaths/1,000 live births 0.941 Bangladesh (2009 est.) [30] male: 66.12 deaths/1,000 live births female: 51.64 deaths/1,000 live births 1.280 Thailand (2009 est.) [31] male: 18.48 deaths/1,000 live births female: 16.43 deaths/1,000 live births 1.125 Vietnam (2009 est.) [32] male: 22.64 deaths/1,000 live births female: 21.84 deaths/1,000 live births 1.037 Laos (2009 est.) [33] male: 86.97 deaths/1,000 live births female: 68.11 deaths/1,000 live births 1.277 Nigeria (2009 est.) [34] male: 100.38 deaths/1,000 live births female: 87.97 deaths/1,000 live births 1.141 South Africa (2009 est.) [35] male: 48.66 deaths/1,000 live births female: 40.1 deaths/1,000 live births 1.213 Brazil (2009 est.) [36] male: 26.16 deaths/1,000 live births female: 18.83 deaths/1,000 live births 1.389 Haiti (2009 est.) [37] male: 66.18 deaths/1,000 live births female: 53.01 deaths/1,000 live births 1.248 Samoa (2009 est.) [38] male: 28.61 deaths/1,000 live births female: 19.6 deaths/1,000 live births 1.460

You may (emphasis on the may) be seeing a strong cultural preference for male children playing out in India and China to a greater extreme given the one child policy, but also perhaps Vietnam and Pakistan. Surprisingly (to me anyway) there's little sign of this in Bangladesh. This ref documents a difference in the chance of a parent in Bangladesh seeking medical aide for a child (not infant) [39].

In any case the variation is high enough it's rather difficult to draw any real conclusion and many countries have some preference for male children including the US and Canada [40] which could be confounding your results. There would probably of course be genetic and dietary factors at play as well.

P.S. I was thinking of this earlier but forgot and it occured to me again when writing the below, it's possible one of the reasons for Bangladesh lack of an obvious skew is because sex selective abortion is more common, although that doesn't really explain the (1987 admitedly) ref.

Nil Einne (talk) 16:32, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

It seems unlikely that ~15% of female baby deaths are due to their parents killing them because they wanted a boy. One in 300 families are prepared to do that? It's not enough that 1 in 300 people would do it - because (presumably) both mother and father would have to at least acquiesce - which means that maybe one in 15 people would stand back and let their partner do that? That's a VERY big number. SteveBaker (talk) 16:43, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

I don't see any reason to presume active killing is the primary factor. Difference in the treatment and attention (time etc) given to the infant including in the likelihood of parents seeking medical attention (as documented in Bangladesh for children), the food or formula given, the likeliness of noticing problems (if you pay less attention to your infant you're less likely to notice or be aware of differences in their behaviour), the amount of money the parent is willing to pay for infant could be big factors. It may not even be a concious thing in many cases. And it doesn't have to even be both parents unless the other parent compensates. And if prenatal sex testing is involved (and the parents don't practice sex-selective abortion) then this could even begin before birth.

These factors could of course even play on a communial basis including medical staff etc (again doesn't have to be concious) although of course they could compensate or respond in the reverse (whether because they are ware and are making an active effort or simply because they've noticed girls are far more more likely to have serious problems then boys when they come to them).

Or to put it a different way, if the parents and many other people in the community care more about male children then female children, it isn't that surprising if the boys are less likely to die (relatively speaking) then girls.

P.S. In addition reading infant morality made me realise something I didn't yet consider, if the parents decide to abandon the child, they may not be intentional trying to kill it, but it's obviously going to be more likely to die.

Nil Einne (talk) 16:58, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Orkut's religion

What is Orkut Buykkokten's religion??

Do you mean Orkut Büyükkökten? His Wikipedia article does not give any information about his religious beliefs. I have 'Googled' it but have not found any information in that area. —220.101.28.25 (talk) 13:58, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

There is a crazy amount of misinformation about this guy on the web - lots of sites report this long list of how much money he makes ("He get paid $200 every time someone uploads a picture to the Orkut website"...so who exactly is paying this and why would they do that?!?!). If I found a place where his religion was mentioned, I'd be reluctant to believe it without some pretty solid evidence. SteveBaker (talk) 16:56, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

pdf file

How can I convert a file to a pdf file ? I have one folder consists of picture of book's page , I want to convert this file to a pdf file .Supriyochowdhury (talk) 15:09, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

The solution I use is "CutePDF Writer", which is a free printer driver. After you install it, all of your applications will be able to "print" to a PDF file. Comet Tuttle (talk) 15:38, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Yes, it largely depends what apps you have available to you. These days many of them have a built-in PDF "export" or "save as" option in the file menu.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 16:26, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Translation request

I am thinking of translating Gospel of Thomas into Malayalam, my mother tongue and the language of Saint Thomas Christians of Malabar (now known as Kerala). I am a Mar Thoma Nasrani (Saint Thomas Christian) and belongs to Mar Thoma Church. This gospel is of particular importance for us because before the Bible was translated from Aramaic, into Malayalam we were reading from a book that was said to have been written in Aramaic and given to us by Saint Thomas the Apostle. Further study may help me to trace whether it was this Gospel of Thomas that was taken by Pantœnus from India to Alexandria around AD 190. I need to know whether I need any permission to translate this and publish it. Can someone help me?Neduvelilmathew (talk) 16:58, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

See the article Gospel of Thomas which notes that the manuscript found at Nag Hammadi was first published in a photographic edition in 1956. The manuscript itself is held in a museum in Cairo, Egypt. You are certainly free to translate the gospel for private study. We cannot give you legal advice about publishing copyright. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 17:28, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Letters

How should I go about writing a formal letter to someone at a company I have never written to before and know none at?

148.197.114.158 (talk) 17:29, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

Google is great for this kind of thing, and there are dozens of sites out there that can help you. A couple of minutes searching found This, which from the looks of it could be helpful. I don't think they'd be any articles on Wikipedia to help you, so try Googling. Chevymontecarlo (talk) 17:58, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

The usual convention is to address the letter to a corporate officer who is relevant to the topic of the letter. e.g. "Dear Ms. Jane Doe, Vice President of Consumer Relations:" The officer might not be the one to actually read the letter, but that will get it to their office. If you can't find an actual name, addressing it to the position itself can work, e.g. "Dear President of Yoyodyne Systems:" As a last resort, you can always try the "Dear Sir or Madam:" or "To whom it may concern:" route, although that may imply you do not care about the issue enough to think about who to contact. If you don't have a mailing address for a specific person, try addressing it to the central corporate office. As for the body of the letter, I'd recommend keeping it polite and direct. If you have a specific action you wish for them to take (provide you with information, give you a refund, etc.) be sure to state it explicitly (but politely) in the conclusion section of the letter - the person reading the letter will likely be busy, and put your letter at the bottom of their priority list. Make it as simple as possible for them to satisfy your desires. And finally, don't be too disappointed if you never hear back from them. Some companies just aren't all that responsive when it comes to letters. -- 174.21.224.109 (talk) 18:04, 7 February 2010 (UTC)