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Errors in the summary of the featured article

Please do not remove this invisible timestamp. See WT:ERRORS and WP:SUBSCRIBE. - Dank (push to talk) 01:24, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

Errors in the summary of the featured list

Friday's FL

(August 23, today)

Monday's FL

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General discussion

Is it just me?

It seems to me that Bach's cantatas show up more regularly than any other subject in the "Did You Know" section. (OK, this is perhaps a slight exaggeration.) Is it just me, or does somebody in power have an absolute passion for them? :-) All the best 85.220.22.139 (talk) 15:37, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

It's probably more that someone with a lot of time and energy has such a passion and channels it into developing these articles. :) --LukeSurl ^{t c} 16:42, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

You are probably right. Let us hope that this someone has a few deadlines coming. A break from the cantatas would be welcome. Not that I don't respect Bach, but he does replace something else every time one of his works is included. Just for the fun of it: In my youth, a television programme started with a movement from one of the Brandenburg Concertos. (I can't remember which - I've avoided the concertos ever since.) This was Sunday evenings, and the boy, who I was at the time, was dreading the beginning of school next day. I've never been able to listen to that movement since without a flashback. :-) All the best 85.220.22.139 (talk) 18:08, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Just for fun and to satisfy your memory, the show was William F. Buckley's Firing Line with a theme from the Brandenburg Concerto No. 2 in F Major. :-) TjoeC (talk) 02:05, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Or depending on your age/location/choice of viewing in your youth you may be thinking of early versions of Antiques Roadshow, which used to have Brandenburg #3 as a theme tune. An optimist on the run!   08:11, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

"he does replace something else every time one of his works is included" - I'm not sure this is entirely true.

Or at least, if you write one hundred new DYK-qualified articles per month on a wide variety of topics that are not Bach, then the Bach topics will appear considerably less often because they'll have to wait their turn. Thus, nothing is being denied a place in DYK, but rather, DYK has to use the material that's supplied. If three per cent of the material that's supplied is about Bach, then roughly that proportion of DYK will be about Bach.

To take a totally different view, maybe you're just imagining all these appearances of Bach-related material on the main page. A "reliable source" repeatedly insists that "topics rarely appear more than once" on DYK. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 18:26, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

• Hmm, they haven't noticed Indonesia then. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:18, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

• The answer is 1) Everything that's meets the requirements and gets nominated ends up getting posted at DYK, and 2) the sources of articles for DYK are constrained by who writes the articles and who nominates them. This is a fairly limited pool of editors, and as noted, if people are very interested in niche topics, we get a LOT of similar nominations from those same topics, not because people are deliberately ignoring other topics, but because that's all we have to work with. This is the exact same reason why we end up with so many bird pictures on the main page: There's a prolific bird photographer who's very good at what he does that contributes a lot of pictures to Wikipedia. There's a limited supply of other topics, because no one has created really good pics in other fields, so we get a lot of bird pictures. We could demand that people stop making Wikipedia better and more complete with their good articles about Bach or their really good pictures of birds, but really, the better solution is to provide your own articles about other topics, or your own non-bird pictures, because I'm not really comfortable asking dedicated editors to stop making Wikipedia better. --Jayron32 18:32, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

To tell the truth, I had noticed the birds as well - Australian more often than not. :-) 85.220.22.139 (talk) 22:38, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

Although I'm quite a fan of Bach (and I know German), I can see where the frequent blurbs on Bach cantata texts as DYK items may seem repetitive and tedious to general English-language readers. It would be great to see DYK notes about a broad spectrum of composers, related to historical context. Many of them had such interesting lives! Sca (talk) 15:44, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Well, I'm not a general English-language reader. English was my third language, German my fourth and I'm equally fluent (or not) in both of them. I'd welcome a treatment of other German composers - Germany has produced a lot of them. How about Beethoven - the greatest of them all according to some? Or how about other peoples, Donizetti, Tschaikowski etc. You're right, the Bach entries get repetitive and dull. All the best 85.220.22.139 (talk) 21:22, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Chopin. Sca (talk) 21:53, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

I love Chopin. Today we have yet another cantata. But according to Wikipedia, there are only 209 of them, so the material has to run out sometime this decade. :-) All the best 85.220.22.139 (talk) 16:30, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Three days later, another Bach cantata?? I think that makes five this month, and it's only the 8th of June. Das genügt! Sca (talk) 13:04, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

If you want to spread out the Bach cantata hooks, please consider contributing hooks about other things to DYK. This is the best way to get hooks about topics you like on DYK, and to delay having hooks about topics you don't like on DYK. --69.158.116.5 (talk) 16:30, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

As the foregoing discussion makes clear, it's not that I don't like Bach (I do), it's that I don't think we should be subjecting our global Main Page audience to over-frequent expositions of his cantatas — all of which, of course, are religious in theme and thus broadly similar in import. Repetition is the soul of boredom. Sca (talk) 13:29, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Correction: Come to think of it, I know of two Bach cantatas that are secular in theme: BWV 211, known as the Coffee Cantata, and BWV 212, called the Peasant Cantata. (I see on German Wiki that there are four other secular canatatas.) Sca (talk) 21:46, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

{{Sofixit}}. As Jayron32 points out above, the selection of topics that DYK is able to work with is restricted to the set of topics for which Wikipedia contributors are willing to perform article creation or expansion. If no one else is willing to answer your call to create articles dealing with your favorite topics then the answer is for you to perform some research and then write the article yourself. If all it took to cause someone to create a well researched article was a simple demand on a talk page, then there would be practically no backlog at Wikipedia:Requested articles. --Allen3 ^talk 14:02, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Or perhaps there is something fundamentally flawed with the concept of DYK and it needs to be discontinued or completely revamped. As it stands it seems (to me at least) to be an exercise in vanity, rather than expanding knowledge. --Khajidha (talk) 11:41, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

• How many do you read? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:49, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

A fair number. And many of the ones I have read turn out to be things that are difficult if not impossible to find in the actual article or lead to articles that seem to have been written with no regard for grammar, spelling, or flow of text. Why not just post facts from ANY article (or at least, any article that can actually be read without feeling ones IQ drop by 50 points due to the quality of the writing)? That would seem to me to be a better approach to expanding knowledge, rather than the "Ooh ooh ooh, I just made this new article/expanded this old article, lets just pick some random sentence with no context and see if I can get it on to the Main Page" style I currently see. --Khajidha (talk) 13:02, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

What I would suggest for a ground up revamp of DYK is an easily findable link in the sidebar where any user could post some factoid they had discovered and the name of the page. Assuming that their phrasing was acceptable it would then be added to the queue. I would prefer that the reader be able to reload the list and get a constantly randomized selection from the entire database of factoid that had been presented. --Khajidha (talk) 13:21, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

• Aha. And you have written... how many? Curious, as (to me) the one which stands for hat-collecting is ITN. "Oh, this is getting to be really big. Let's nominate this while it's still two sentences and I'll get credit". Luckily the articles never pass in such a state, but... — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:30, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Oh, I agree that ITN has many of the same problems (plus the added problem that this isn't a news site) but this was a DYK related discussion. To me most of these sections (ITN, DYK, TFA, etc) seem like little more than excuses for users to collect little notices on their talk pages that something they worked on is being put on the Main Page. There is little or no indication as to why they are being put on the Main Page. Or at least, none that really makes sense to me. "They're our best content we should showcase them!" just engenders the reply from me "Is it the showcase page or the Main Page?" To me those would be different things. --Khajidha (talk) 13:43, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

I have to agree with Khajidha that the random-tidbit nature of DYK and, to a lesser extent, ITN, mean that the English Main Page often presents little of genuine interest to the general reader — unless one considers trivia truly interesting. Sca (talk) 18:16, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

• I must say, Khajidha, I'm intrigued as to your idea of a main page which does not serve as a portal. As for TFA/DYK/etc., I personally write to help better myself. I first began extensive volunteer work on Wikipedia after several years of periodic activity because I felt my English was getting really rusty, and I must say my use of the language has improved a fair ways (past what is was before? maybe) through writing almost 500 articles which were DYKable. That and it's a pleasure to lead people to some bits of knowledge they would have had no way of knowing beforehand. I doubt even 0.001% of our readership has heard of Gagak Item before, for instance. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:55, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

• English point: a "factoid" is by definition something resembling the truth which is, however, unreliable or untrue – the "-oid" is the clue, as in "humanoid". The word does not mean small or trivial fact. If DYK deals in factoids, as suggested, it deserves to die, but as far as I can tell the facts are real, if on occasion inconsequential, e.g. Johnny Depp's Venetian walk. I'm uncertain here whether the highlighted "fact" is that he walks on hotel roofs, or the revelation that he wears pyjamas. Brianboulton (talk) 07:45, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

To Crisco 1492 - My idea of the main page would have 3 sections: 1) a search box and random article link, 2) a "How to edit" section and 3) an other Wikipedias and sister projects. That's it. If you want "Featured Content", make a separate page for it. If you want "On this day" type content, make a separate page for it. If you want articles related to topics in the news, make a separate page for it.

To Brianboulton - Sorry, I had only ever encountered the word being used to mean "a true but pointless fact". Most of the "facts" I have read in DYK were of this type. Many of them were not the most interesting point in the article and several of the posts seemed to have been contrived simply to get something to put in the DYK slot. --Khajidha (talk) 12:13, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

My understanding of "factoid" from the news business is a minor but true and often little-known fact — similar to the concept of trivia. Sca (talk) 17:22, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Well, the "news business" has got it wrong. Factoids are assumed to be true, often by by constant repetition, but are, as I stated, unreliable or plain false. So your understanding of the word is itself a factoid. Don't take my word for this; any good dictionary will say the same. Brianboulton (talk) 08:56, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/factoid –HTD 12:43, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Brian, this may be a cross-cultural issue. It seems that in British English your definition is the norm, whereas in American newspaper journalism mine prevails. Even your (British) Oxford dictionary definition contains this secondary entry: "North American — a brief or trivial item of news or information."

"Factoid" may have acquired the connotation of spuriousness since it was coined in the 1970s, but that wasn't its original meaning. (In American journalism, a brief excerpt from an article often is, or was, employed as a graphic device, printed in larger or bold type. This could be a "quote box," or a "factoid.") Sca (talk) 15:58, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

(reset) Perhaps there could be a banner headline - a snappier version of 'Don't complain about MP topic repetition - deal with it yourself by creating articles.'

And WP uses the main page to shift Donald Rumsfelds 'unknown unknowns' (and the unstated unknown knowns) to known knowns. Jackiespeel (talk) 17:29, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

I sort of do want this discussion to go away; it's persistent and no action is ever going to be taken because of it here. A policy to immediately close such discussions with a pointer to the correct location would be nice. LFaraone 17:13, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

May I remind people that there is currently a RFC on the main page redesign linked above this? While the RFC is a bit unstructured and appears to be coming to an end soon, it still seems to be open right now and if you want to replace DYK or drastically revamp it or whatever there is a far better place than here where your chance of achieving something is slim to one. If you've already commented there then repeating is here isn't going to make it more likely to happen. BTW somewhat surprisingly to me there doesn't seem to be a section abiut removing DYK there only ITN. Nil Einne (talk) 01:03, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

At this stage of English Wikipedia's development, runs of topics in DYK are much more likely than they were earlier, since (almost by definition) they often represent topic categories which had been previously overlooked, usually more detailed topics which had previously been covered only in a general way. To even identify those kinds of "missing" categories, an English-fluent editor must previously have had an interest in that category, and since they are willing to write an acceptable article in a new category, that interest is likely to be passionate, detailed, and extend to related topics within that category. Thus we have (and can expect more of) individual works by composers/artists/writers (Bach, Chopin), non English language arts and sports (Indonesian cinema), etc. - Tenebris 02:04, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Not really - we have thousands (far too many imo) of articles on "individual works" and people, films etc, because they are much easier to write. Where we are weaker is broader articles on topics, like Italian Renaissance sculpture. Cinema of Indonesia doesn't look great either. Johnbod (talk) 02:46, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

• Still compiling my references for a couple of broad articles, to be done over the holidays. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 10:17, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Ah, but consider that you were able to think of a broad subject title which has not yet been used. That, by itself, is much rarer than you may guess. For the vast majority of people (and why would Wikipedia editors be any exception?) the only broad subject titles they can think of already exist. In fact, many of the broadest titles are on indefinite semi-protection, in part because of the numbers of people that can think of them. - Tenebris 21:56, 16 June 2013 (UTC)

• "Women in (African country)". There's at least twenty redlinks. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:45, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

And here we go with Gibraltar again! Jeez! Ansh666 06:57, 19 June 2013 (UTC) (to be honest, as a history buff I like the Gibraltar DYKs! keep it up guys)

DYK Das neugeborne Kindelein (June 23) — is it Xmas already? Yawn. Sca (talk) 15:00, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Not even "Christmas-and-a-half" (25 June). --Khajidha (talk) 15:15, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Icelandic National Day

Every national day usually gets marked by why not Iceland's national day? (17 June) I don't understand it. Even smaller countries and dependencies get mentioned like the Falklands' Liberation Day. Was this just overlooked. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.5.135.88 (talk • contribs) 16:53, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

The omission is intentional. The Icelandic National Day article is ineligible for inclusion because its information isn't properly attributed to reliable sources. —David Levy 17:16, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

That's just sad. It can't be that hard to find actual sources... Beeblebrox (talk) 17:28, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

It wasn't. Found one and added it, there's plenty more out there. Beeblebrox (talk) 17:35, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

how do u add someone to wiki

How do u add someone to wiki Jordanrhcp (talk) 14:57, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Take a look at WP:YFA and WP:42. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 14:59, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Marred?

"In sports car racing, the 24 Hours of Le Mans, won by Tom Kristensen, Allan McNish and Loïc Duval, is marred by the death of Allan Simonsen."

Whether or not the event was "marred" is purely subjective. Some people many have been entertained by it. Sadists may have enjoyed it. Wikipedia is supposed to stay completely objective and only report factual information, not make opinions about it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.199.53.35 (talk) 21:20, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

I was about to write some long winded explanation here, but I think it is more to the point to state the obvious: this is one of the stupidest objections to main page content I have ever seen. Beeblebrox (talk) 01:46, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Am I the only one who thinks that saying the race was "marred" by a death is a little too much of an understatement? --Khajidha (talk) 02:05, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

I didn't know basic human decency was a POV (are sadists covered by WP:FRINGE?). But at any rate, it doesn't violate NPOV to say the event was marred. Collins dictionary gives "'mar (v): to cause harm to; spoil or impair". The race was definitely impaired (since the safety car had to come out), and since the winner and the organizers both expressed their sadness at Simonsen's death, and news media coverage was tempered by the accident, it seems fair to say that the atmosphere of the race was spoiled as well. Smurrayinchester 10:28, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

KKK on the front page?

...seriously? --85.210.103.168 (talk) 13:17, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

If you ignore it do you think it will go away?User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 13:28, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

It's not like they didn't exist. Should we pretend otherwise? 81.129.32.66 (talk) 13:30, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

We have, to my certain knowledge, had at least two Nazis as TFA. We are not a children's encyclopedia with all the naughty bits cut out.--Wehwalt (talk) 14:07, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

We had a racist atrocity as TFA last month and nobody complained about it. There's no obligation for an encyclopedia to cover only nice things. Hut 8.5 14:15, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Of course, another way of looking at this issue is that - as has been stated in this brief discussion, the front page has recently featured two Nazis, a leader of the KKK and a racist atrocity, and then to wonder if indeed this is a representative sample of the contents of the enyclopedia. If it's not - then one may indeed wonder why so many racists find their way onto the front page - and if it is, then it seems alarming that the encyclopedia is overwhelminly populated by articles about racists! Horatio Snickers (talk) 17:08, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

You are right. Unfortunately, this is sadly reflective of the contents. But then again, at least its not a hurricane.User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 17:18, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

There are a few niche interests which represent a large percentage of the articles which make it to featured status, beginning with war. That speaks to the diligence of those with such interests, and is not a reflection on Wikipedia as a whole, other than highlighting the lack of editors willing to work to make featured articles in a broader range of subject matter.--Chimino (talk) 17:33, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

I did not say recently. One of the articles I was thinking of was Albert Speer, which appeared in 2008, and I recall a Luftwaffe pilot since, but don't recall when or who. I think there's also been an admiral.--Wehwalt (talk) 18:12, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

TFA writer here: I went through a period where I read a lot about atrocities and assorted terrible things. So naturally that was what I wrote about then too. This led to the infamous Jesse Washington (NSFL) main page blowup as well. Mark Arsten (talk) 17:43, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Not Safe For... Littleones? Libraries? Lookingat? --Demiurge1000 (talk) 18:02, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Life. TheOriginalSoni (talk) 18:07, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Yes, NSFL at Urban Dictionary. It's the lesser-known sibling of NSFW, generally used for gore/death instead of nudity/sex. Mark Arsten (talk) 18:10, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

If only there were a website to Google such things. -- tariqabjotu 18:21, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

You mean like Google? Or like Urban Dictionary, which the comment just above you mentioned? TheOriginalSoni (talk) 19:12, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Whoosh. -- tariqabjotu 19:26, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not censored. Inclusion on the main page is not an endorsement of the covered subject, but simply serves to showcase the highest-quality content on Wikipedia's. LFaraone 15:18, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

• Here's a random thought: If someone doesn't like seeing articles about the KKK or genocide, I recommend that they try working on articles themselves. Maybe get Unicorn on the front page to outweigh massacres. GamerPro64 17:58, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

I will personally buy a beer to anyone who gets Unicorn to FA status.User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 18:04, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Relevant FA candidate. Mark Arsten (talk) 18:11, 24 June 2013 (UTC)