Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard

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Welcome to the dispute resolution noticeboard (DRN)

This is an informal place to resolve small content disputes as part of dispute resolution. It may also be used as a tool to direct certain discussions to more appropriate forums, such as requests for comment, or other noticeboards. You can ask a question on the talk page. This is an early stop for most disputes on Wikipedia. You are not required to participate, however, the case filer must participate in all aspects of the dispute or the matter will be considered failed. Any editor may volunteer! Click this button to add your name! You don't need to volunteer to help. Please feel free to comment below on any case. Be civil and remember; Maintain Wikipedia policy: it is usually a misuse of a talk page to continue to argue any point that has not met policy requirements. Editors must take particular care adding information about living persons to any Wikipedia page. This may also apply to some groups. Noticeboards should not be a substitute for talk pages. 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Current disputes

Talk:Transylvanian peasant revolt#Neutrality II

– Discussion in progress.

Filed by Borsoka on 15:14, 7 February 2018 (UTC).

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

• Transylvanian peasant revolt (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Users involved

• Borsoka (talk · contribs)
• Rgvis (talk · contribs)
• Seraphim System (talk · contribs)

Dispute overview

Rgvis says that the article Transylvanian peasant revolt is unbalanced and disputes its neutrality.

Have you tried to resolve this previously?

I sought assistance from Wikiproject:Romania and from Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard. I also changed the text, taking into account suggestions from members of the latter noticeboard, but Rqvis still maintains his/her view. All my attempts to persuade him to explain his/her concerns have failed, because he/she accusses me of misconduct and refers to "other editors" who allegedly share his/her concerns. I involved Seraphim System because Rgvis accuses me of changing his/her edits.

How do you think we can help?

I do not know. I hope you will know. Thank you for your assistance.

Summary of dispute by Rgvis

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

Comment on content, not contributors. Robert McClenon (talk) 17:20, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

The article does not keep a balanced content regarding the historical facts presented; it is heavily based on the positions of authors affiliated to the Hungarian historiography, ignoring almost completely opinions of those affiliated to the Romanian historiography. When I tried to contribute with legitimate referenced content, I was brutally reverted (against all Wikipedia rules) by the user:Borsoka, who basically acts like a private owner of this article. This problem has been notified by other editors, too (this can be verified by reviewing the editing history of all pages regarding this topic: article, talk, and disputes' pages). Thank you. (Rgvis (talk) 13:25, 8 February 2018 (UTC))

Comment in your own section. Robert McClenon (talk) 17:20, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

Comment: (1) The last of a series of my "brutal reverts" was the following (in November): ([1]), with a clear reference, in the edit summary, to your obious copyright violations. Could you link my other "brutal reverts"? (2) Please also remember that you pretended that Setton-Wattson's book was published in 2015, although it had been first published in the 1930s ([2]). Please read other editors' comment on the use of this old source in the article: ([3]) (3) Could you please ping all "other editors" who agree with you? In contrast with you, Anonimu does not states that the whole article is unbalanced, he says that its last section could possibly be described as such, because this section does not present the "the classical Romanian POV about the events, nationalistic as it may be" ([4]). As I have several times mentioned during the last two months, I would be grateful if anyone could expand the article: that's why I sought assistance from the Romanian editors' noticeboard ([5]). Do you really think that an editor who acts like the owner of an article try to persuade other editors to edit it? (4) I would be grateful if you tried to refer to relevant reliable sources instead of making personal attacks. Borsoka (talk) 16:50, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by Seraphim System

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

It does look like a response was inserted in the middle of my comment, but this could have been a good faith error. It did not alter my comment. Beyond that, I don't remember much about this dispute and I was only briefly involved so I am not sure how much help I will be, but I am willing to participate if it would be helpful. Seraphim System ^(talk) 16:41, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for the above clarification. I would be grateful if you could participate in the resolution process. Borsoka (talk) 16:56, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

Talk:Transylvanian peasant revolt#Neutrality II discussion

Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.

• Volunteer note - The posting at the neutral point of view noticeboard has been closed without resolution, so that the filing here is the only current effort to resolve this dispute. The filing party has notified the other parties. Robert McClenon (talk) 18:35, 7 February 2018 (UTC)
• Volunteer note - Are the editors willing to have moderated discussion in which they focus on article content and not on each other? Robert McClenon (talk) 17:20, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

Yes, of course. Thank you for your moderation. Borsoka (talk) 17:29, 8 February 2018 (UTC)Borsoka (talk) 10:36, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

What part of "Are the editors willing to have moderated discussion in which they focus on article content and not on each other?" do I need to restate or rework? If there is a behavioral problem, this is not the place to discuss it. However, the discussion of content is sometimes more useful than back-and-forth discussions of conduct. Are the editors willing to comment on content and not on contributors, or does this need to go to a conduct forum, where it is likely to be closed inconclusively? Robert McClenon (talk) 18:34, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
After 3 months of discussions, I personally think that the main issue in this case is not the content, but rather a behavioral problem. When I made contributions on this article (in accordance with all Wikipedia rules), I was reverted by Borsoka without any explanation (references included). Then, when I asked for explanations, Borsoka came up with all sorts of pretexts (which turned out to be ungrounded): first, "Copyright violations", when it was obviously that the contributions were based on the "Fair use" principle (which stays at the base of the so many Wikipedia articles' content); then, the content added was labeled as "fringe theory" and the authors of the works cited (reputed Romanian, Britain, American, etc. historians) as not reliable (or even "too old" - very funny assumption, in this context). In the opinion of Borsoka, only the authors accepted by the Hungarian POV are credible, and should be mentioned and cited. Well, here is a problem, because Wikipedia project is governed (or, at least, it should be) by different fundamental principles (NPOV included). Yes, no doubt that the content of this article could and should (soon or later) be improved, in order to reflect all historical POV. But, the question is: Is this article open for contributions from other editors, or not? (Rgvis (talk) 10:15, 9 February 2018 (UTC)) I do not want to disprove each statement made by Rgvis, because I would like to settle the issue (Those who are interested in the issue can read the whole story on the article's talk page.) @Rgvis:. (1) Yes, I still think that Sedlar's POV is a marginal (rather fringe) theory, but it was included in the article based on the discussion at the NPOV noticeboard. What is your problem with it? (2) Yes, I think that Setton-Wattson's book, which was published in 1934, should not be cited, especially because you have not referred to a single modern reliable source which verifies that his claims are still valid. Please remember that other editors - Only in death and Loesorion - were also sceptical as to whether such an old source could be used ([6]). Could you mention other editors who think that Setton-Wattson's book should be cited in the article? (3) Could you link my statements about other "reputed Romanian, Britain and American historians" proving that I denied to refer to them? Borsoka (talk) 10:36, 9 February 2018 (UTC) (1) Good for you, but WP:NOT. (2) Yes, an example would be: page 23/33. On the other hand, regardless of the intimate opinion of editors, Wikipedia is not the place to judge or contest the activity of historians, not to say, the well-known ones [7] + [8], whose works are still published: [9], and still appreciated nowadays by the scientific communities: [10] (3) Review all your past actions of deleting references. (Rgvis (talk) 17:11, 9 February 2018 (UTC))

• Volunteer note - Do the editors want to engage in moderated discussion of content only, without commenting on conduct or each other? Sometimes resolving the content issue, whether by mediation or otherwise, will end the conduct issues or at least permit the conduct issues to subside, but this noticeboard is only for the discussion of article content. If the editors will discuss content, a volunteer moderator will mediate. (If the editors want to talk about conduct, this is the wrong place and/or the wrong time.) Robert McClenon (talk) 14:04, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

• Yes. Borsoka (talk) 02:22, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
• Comment I would be willing to participate in the discussion as well, but it would be helpful for me also if editors agree to just focus on content and sources here. The volunteers here can not resolve conduct issues - but I think it is a good idea to at least try this discussion first and ANI may not be necessary - sometimes it is better to try to AGF and start over to work through a content dispute.Seraphim System ^(talk) 02:32, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

• Volunteer inquiry - User:Rgvis - Are you willing to take part in discussion here that is limited to article content (and perhaps civil discussion of article content can avoid the need to focus on conduct)? Robert McClenon (talk) 01:33, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

Sure, no problem (although it wouldn't be the first time, in this case), we can try again (patiently, due to time constraints). (Rgvis (talk) 08:26, 12 February 2018 (UTC))

First statement by moderator

Okay. I will try to mediate this dispute. Please read User:Robert McClenon/Mediation Rules and follow the rules. Comment on content only, and not on contributors. Be civil and concise. Take note of the rule that you are expected to reply to my requests for inputs every 48 hours. (I see a mention of time constraints. If you cannot respond within 48 hours, it may be necessary to close this case, and formal mediation, which can take months, may work better.) Will each editor please state, in one paragraph, what they think the issues are with regard to what should be in the article? (Talk only about the article, not about the process or the editors.) Robert McClenon (talk) 11:41, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

I do not know. Borsoka (talk) 16:53, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

Let's start with the revision of the name of Vlachs to that of Romanians, in general context. (Rgvis (talk) 07:44, 14 February 2018 (UTC))

First statements by editors

Thank you for your suggestion. Why do you think, the replacement of the Vlach ethnonym is necessary? Please note that two "neutral" historians cited in the article (Joseph Held and Jean W. Sedlar) insist on the use of the Vlach ethnonym in the context. Borsoka (talk) 08:24, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Second statement by moderator

Comment in the section for statements by editors. Reply only to the moderator and not to each other.

It appears that the only real issue is whether to use the ethnonym 'Vlach' or 'Romanians'. Is that correct? If so, please justify your position on the ethnonym. Robert McClenon (talk) 17:29, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

As the moderator, I am neutral, but I need to be persuaded that it is necessary to change the ethnonym. Robert McClenon (talk) 17:29, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

Second statements by editors

This is only the first issue.

Why "Romanian" instead "Vlach":

• standard recommendation, as per WP:NCET
• the historian's explanation: [11], [12]
• to avoid any confusion with the contemporary meaning of "Vlach": [13]

As for Jean W. Sedlar, she does not insist on the use of any term ("Romanian" or "Vlach", "Hungarian" or "Magyar", etc): [14].

(Rgvis (talk) 09:09, 15 February 2018 (UTC))

Third statement by moderator

An editor states above, "This is only the first issue", about changing a denonym. I had asked the editors to identify the issues, not to identify one issue at a time. Will each editor please identify all of the issues that they think need to be addressed? If it is necessary to provide a long list of issues, provide a long list of issues, but, if so, I may find it necessary to refer this dispute to formal mediation, a lengthy and careful process. Please state what the issues as to article content are. Be civil, and as concise as possible. Comment on content, not contributors. Robert McClenon (talk) 22:59, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Third statements by editors

• the introductory section is ambiguous in terms of some important aspects of the presented event (such as the ethnic component of peasants, or the location of the uprising), but, on the other hand, it abounds in some rather too detailed (and marginal) information for this part of the article;
• the "Background" section superficially treats the history of the Transylvanian Romanians (of all social classes) and almost ignores the religious aspects of the presented context;
• the "Peasant war" section does not mention essential aspects of the uprising, like the calling for the establishment and recognition of the Universitas Hungarorum et Valachorum - Estate of Hungarians and Romanians; it also selectively uses information from some referenced sources;
• the "Aftermath" section does not sufficiently emphasize on the historical consequences of the presented events in terms of social and political life of Transylvania for the next centuries;

PS: it would still be useful for the moderator to express his point of view on the first mentioned issue. (Rgvis (talk) 08:46, 17 February 2018 (UTC))

• Regarding use of "Vlach" my main objection to the term is that it is not widely known, and no arguments have been given for why the distinction is necessary. If it doesn't add anything, then I think the most widely recognizable term should be used for the benefit of readers who are not expected to be familiar with specialized terminology. Seraphim System ^(talk) 08:53, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

Fourth statement by moderator

We have a list of four or five issues that one of the editors think should be addressed. This noticeboard is normally for relatively simple content disputes that take one week to two weeks to resolve, not for ones that have multiple aspects that go on for weeks or months. I have several options. The first and least intrusive would be to put this case on hold and see if the editors can work collaboratively on the article talk page to improve the article. The second would be for the editors to make a list of issues that they think should be addressed, and then have a multi-part Request for Comments that will run for 30 days (after this case is closed as taken to the RFC). The third will be for the editors to agree to formal mediation. I would like to ask the editors to give three-part Yes-No answers, to whether they are willing to use each of the three options. By the way, if you say No to any of the three options, please indicate concisely why. I don't like it isn't adequate. To restate one of the original rules, you are expected to reply within 48 hours, and it would be helpful to reply in 24 to 36 hours. Which of the methods of proceeding are agreeable? Robert McClenon (talk) 16:43, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

Fourth statements by editors

(1) Yes. (2) Yes. (3) Yes. (I would prefer option 1, because the opening of new procedures could be time-consuming.) Borsoka (talk) 17:17, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

Sure, no problem (Y/Y/Y). (Rgvis (talk) 14:35, 18 February 2018 (UTC))

Fifth statement by moderator

I will suspend the rules against back-and-forth discussion and against editing the article. Discuss the article here; edit the article when consensus on any particular point is reached. Be civil and concise. Comment on content, not contributors. If this method of working together to improve the article works, good. If there is incivility, I may give one warning, or I may fail the moderation. If anyone needs a neutral comment, I will be here; otherwise, just keep working, but be civil. Robert McClenon (talk) 02:38, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

Fifth space for extended discussion by editors

@Seraphim System:, my primary concern about the term "Romanian" is that it is strictly connected to a state (Romania) which came into being in 1859, centuries after the events discussed in the article. Borsoka (talk) 05:11, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

@Rgvis:, why do you think that 16th-century Italian authors' remarks about the Vlachs' ethnonym are relevant in connection with an article in English WP about a 15th-century event? Please also remember that Sedlar exclusively uses the term Vlach when writing about the revolt ([15], page 404). Taking into account that the neutrality of the article is debated, because it allegedly prefers the "Hungarian POV" (whatever it is), I think we should prefer the terminology of neutral (non-Hungarian and non-Romanian scholars). Held and Sedlar are neutral scholars and Held dedicated a whole article to the events discussed in the article (he uses the variant Wlach). Borsoka (talk) 05:11, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

Talk:Kashmir conflict#Nimitz replacement

– New discussion.

Filed by Kautilya3 on 11:45, 14 February 2018 (UTC).

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

• Talk:Kashmir conflict#Nimitz replacement (edit | subject | history | links | watch | logs)

Users involved

• Kautilya3 (talk · contribs)
• Dilpa kaur (talk · contribs)
• Mar4d (talk · contribs)
• NadirAli (talk · contribs)

Dispute overview

On 9 February, I made an edit to the Kashmir conflict page with the edit summary copy edit and add sources. In the process, I have expanded a sentence based on the information from a source, which can be seen more clearly in this redo of the edit. Dilpa kaur complained on the talk page that it fails NPOV. Then Mar4d and NadirAli reverted it, also claiming that it fails NPOV. However, nobody has explained how it fails NPOV. The additional source provided by Dilpa kaur says pretty much the same thing.

Have you tried to resolve this previously?

Talk page discussion at Talk:Kashmir conflict#Nimitz replacement.

How do you think we can help?

Interrogate and resolve the claim of NPOV failure.

Summary of dispute by Dilpa kaur

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

Summary of dispute by Mar4d

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

Summary of dispute by NadirAli

Kautilya3's claim that there is no contradiction between the sources is WP:MISREPRESENTATION.

Here's the Ganguly source

They also reached an informal agreement that the initial UN appointed plebiscite administrator, Adm. Chester W. Nimitz of the United States, would have to be replaced. India had taken the lead in pushing for Nimitz's removal because it had perceived a pro-Pakistani bias on the part of the United States in the Security Council debates. However, when word of this informal agreement became public, an outcry ensued against the Indian position throughout influential sections of the Pakistani press. Nehru and Bogra, to their mutual credit, nonetheless managed to limit the damage and placed the negotiations back on track.

A few things to note here. Nimitz was a UN appointee and it was India which took the lead in demanding the removal of a UN appointed plebiscite administrator. So clearly the whole problem here is India's fault as it bad to pick issues with the U.N. Yet Kautilya3's edits seek to place the blame solely on Pakistan as the reason for the stall in negotiations for a plebiscite. This is why his edit fails WP:NPOV as it misses India's role in stirring up the matter.

Now here is the contradiction. Rizvi is saying that after agreeing to India's demand Mr Bogra (Pakistani PM) backtracked from the agreement to remove Nimitz. This contradicts Ganguly who says that after the agreement to remove Nimitz was done there was an outcry in the Pakistani press but still Bogra ("to his credit") resisted it and managed to keep the negotiations with India on track. Ganguly then says the real problem started with the US announcement to send military aid to Pakistan.--NadirAli نادر علی (talk) 00:25, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

References

Talk:Kashmir conflict#Nimitz replacement discussion

Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.

• Volunteer note - There has been discussion on the article talk page. The filing editor has notified the other editors. Robert McClenon (talk) 17:45, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
• Volunteer note -Evaluating the discussion-scape.~ Winged Blades^Godric 17:07, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

First statement by moderator

I will try to act as the moderator. I don't claim to have any particular knowledge about the Kashmir conflict. I expect the editors to explain any details that are important. Please read User:Robert McClenon/Mediation Rules and follow the rules. I will remind the editors that ArbCom discretionary sanctions apply to India and Pakistan. Be civil and concise. Comment on content, not contributors. Now: Will each editor please state, in one paragraph, what they think is the issue with regard to article content? Robert McClenon (talk) 04:36, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

First statements by editors

There are two issues here causing the dispute.

1. The removal of content about India's fault in creating trouble. Ganguly tells us India took the lead in getting rid of a UN appointed plebiscite administrator. So that clearly shows India started the problem. But this edit [16] removes the fact that India did not approve of Nimitz, thus laying the onus on Pakistan for stalling proceedings. This half-picture misrepresents actual facts.

2. Bogra agreed to India's demand that Nimitz be removed. Both the sources which are cited - Rizvi and Ganguly - agree on this point. But there is a contradiction on the second part, but Kautilya3 sees no contradiction and claims both sources say the same thing[17] when actually they do not. The contradiction between the sources is that Rizvi says that Bogra backtracked on the agreement to remove Nimitz. But Ganguly says that Bogra did not backtrach, he in fact resisted media pressure from his country to backtrack and actually kept the negotiations with India on track. The real problem started later when the US announced its intent to give Pakistan military aid.--NadirAli نادر علی (talk) 07:13, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

References

. .

Talk:2018 Hong Kong bus accident#Condolences

– New discussion.

Filed by 223.89.144.195 on 06:27, 15 February 2018 (UTC).

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

• Talk:2018 Hong Kong bus accident#Condolences (edit | subject | history | links | watch | logs)

Users involved

• Citobun (talk · contribs)
• 223.89.144.195 (talk · contribs)

Dispute overview

The dispute is quite simple which is to whether to remove the the "Mainland Chinese government" section in the article 2018_Hong_Kong_bus_accident (see one of the disputed edits). The other user "Citobun" insists that the content of this section is "inconsequential" and "propagandistic" and should thus be removed. Whilst I believe that that section should be kept.

Have you tried to resolve this previously?

I have tried to discuss this isuue with the other user in the talkpage. Unfortunately we two simply cannot reach a consensus and still adhere to our own views.

How do you think we can help?

Give us a third-party and neutral opinion so that we can resolve it.

Summary of dispute by Citobun

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

This Beijing IP (as well as 223.104.19.131, using a dynamic IP I guess) is an WP:SPA going about pushing the viewpoint of the Chinese government here and there. When I originally wrote the "reactions" section I purposely left out inconsequential reactions, like token politician condolences, because many officials and governments expressed such sentiments, and I don't think it's useful to fill up the article with this sort of cruft, especially from parties who are not involved with the incident. Upon removing the section I was promptly accused of being "anti-China". It is apparent from IP's editing behavior and attitude that the purpose of adding this section is simply to assert Chinese sovereignty over Hong Kong. Secondly, by "propagandistic" I refer to the melodramatic tone of the original content. It wasn't a quotation either. The version I revised (before deleting it entirely) is better but still odd and still ultimately kind of pointless to include.

I am pretty sure the above two IPs are related to 171.10.177.144?? I suspect sock puppetry, or collusion among Chinese political agenda editors, through some outside means of communications, who are edit warring on the same few articles.

I also want to add that we already got a third opinion at the talk page. And lastly, it makes no sense to call me "anti-China" for this considering I was the one who originally added the responses from Carrie Lam (the most prominent pro-China figure in Hong Kong) as well as the pro-Beijing Federation of Trade Unions. The difference is that Lam and the FTU's comments had actual implications, whereas the comments from the mainland government were just inconsequential token formalities. Citobun (talk) 11:56, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by 223.89.144.195

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

Talk:2018 Hong Kong bus accident#Condolences discussion

Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.

Just one thing I would like to point out, the original content of this section was not added by me, but by NYKTNE (talk · contribs) through this edit.--223.89.144.195 (talk) 09:20, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

• Volunteer note - The filing editor is advised that if they want to engage in dispute resolution, they will be better off to register an account. Robert McClenon (talk) 22:49, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
• Volunteer note - If the only issue is whether to keep or remove a section, a Request for Comments may be appropriate. The purpose of discussion here would be to decide whether to compromise, such as by abridging the section. Do the editors want assistance in compromise, or do they want a yes/no answer? Robert McClenon (talk) 23:15, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

To me, any assistance in compromise is better. --223.89.144.195 (talk) 02:06, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Talk:Priya Prakash_Varrier#Alleged_insult_to_Mohammad_incident

– General close. See comments for reasoning.

Closed discussion

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. Filed by Yogesh Khandke on 14:34, 19 February 2018 (UTC). Have you discussed this on a talk page? Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already. Location of dispute Talk:Priya Prakash Varrier#Alleged insult to Mohammad incident (edit | subject | history | links | watch | logs) Users involved Yogesh Khandke (talk · contribs) Sitush (talk · contribs) Dispute overview I wish to add pertinent well sourced information to an article that is at AfD, the other editor has removed it once and disagrees its inclusion, even after I took his objections to the use of the word "controversy" into account. His objections do not appear to be based on logic to me. The draft is as follows, in italics "A FIR was registered by the Hyderabad police against Varrier, on a complaint filed by a youth for allegedly insulting Mohammad the founder of Islam, in relation to the viral video in which she appears.[18] The Raza Academy has asked Smriti Irani, India's Information and Broadcasting central minister, for a ban on the said song in which Varrier appears, claiming it is derogatory to Mohammad and his "pious wife", they demanded that the song be censored. A protest was arranged by them outside Mumbai's Minara Masjid.[19] Kerala chief minister, Pinarayi Vijayan criticised the complaint and the resulting controversy, terming the matter a manifestation of unacceptable intolerance.[20] Warrier has petitioned the Supreme Court of India seeking that the FIR be cancelled.[21]" I propose that a section be created, with the same tittle as this section. However I am not stuck up about the separate section bit or any word/words being changed as long as the four stages are covered, (1)the FIR, (2)demands by Raza Academy, (3) opposition by Vijayan (4)Supreme Court petition. Have you tried to resolve this previously? I tried to discuss over the past six days, I tried to explain that the content is directly related to the subject and not extraneous as alleged. How do you think we can help? Other non-involved editors may share there views and perhaps mediate Summary of dispute by Sitush Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker. Talk:Priya Prakash_Varrier#Alleged_insult_to_Mohammad_incident discussion Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary. The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User talk:Fylindfotberserk#Lakhanis

– General close. See comments for reasoning.

Closed discussion

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. Filed by A145029 on 19:34, 19 February 2018 (UTC). Have you discussed this on a talk page? Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already. Location of dispute User talk:Fylindfotberserk#Lakhanis (edit | subject | history | links | watch | logs) Users involved A145029 (talk · contribs) Fylindfotberserk (talk · contribs) Dispute overview I want to add two links to Sultan Ali Lakhani about his birthplace and ethnicity and one link to Iqbal Ali Lakhani about his ethnicity, but this user is using lots of biased arguments to prevent this Have you tried to resolve this previously? We discussed about it. How do you think we can help? Please tell who is right and who is wrong Summary of dispute by Fylindfotberserk Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker. User talk:Fylindfotberserk#Lakhanis discussion Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary. The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User talk:Fylindfotberserk#Nisha_Rawal

– General close. See comments for reasoning.

Closed discussion

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. Have you discussed this on a talk page? Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already. Location of dispute User talk:Fylindfotberserk#Nisha Rawal (edit | subject | history | links | watch | logs) Users involved A145029 (talk · contribs) Fylindfotberserk (talk · contribs) Dispute overview I want to add Nisha Rawal ethnicity. The link I provided says that her current husband says that she is of a particular ethnicity, which I think is a reasonable proof of what ethnicity she is, but this user is saying it is not Have you tried to resolve this previously? Discussion How do you think we can help? Please tell who's right and who's wrong Summary of dispute by Fylindfotberserk Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker. User talk:Fylindfotberserk#Nisha_Rawal discussion Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary. The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Talk:Near-death experience

– New discussion.

Filed by Perky28 on 20:25, 20 February 2018 (UTC).

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

• Talk:Near-death experience (edit | subject | history | links | watch | logs)

Users involved

• Perky28 (talk · contribs)
• Jytdog (talk · contribs)
• Skeptic from Britain (talk · contribs)

Dispute overview

About a month ago, I was shocked to see the total disappearance of S. L. Thaler’s research from the WP page on near-death experience, along with all its supporting references. Knowing that for years this article has included his work, and then reading the personal attacks on its talk page, I was especially motivated to reintroduce his research. Then, after two reversions involving Jytdog, I attempted a compromise, simply adding references to the article so that readers would have the option to dig deeper into this highly relevant research. However, even that minor edit was rejected by Jytdog, who seems steadfastly resistant to any mention whatsoever of Thaler in this article.

The irony is that the page cites the Journal of Near-Death Studies three times, as a primary sources for other researchers, but for some reason Thaler's peer-reviewed papers in this same journal are disallowed by Jytdog. Also, an article by a staff reporter for Scientific American serves as a secondary source in this article. However, for Thaler, a similar article doesn't even qualify as valid.

Jytdog also disqualifies Thaler's peer-reviewed, secondary and primary sources out of Elsevier. I would think the papers' merit and relevance had already been determined prior to their publication by experts in the field.

Other editors, such as Skeptical Brit, dismisses (with prejudice) a published article in Elsevier's most selective neural network journal, Neural Networks, simply calling it weird, and then deleting it.

Jytdog, the SciAm article was published in the cellulose magazine, with another following in 1995, not just in archival html. Obviously there are different perspectives on the topic of NDE, and if one camp wants to dominate, they purposely leave out contradictory work. Besides, the Atlantic article was incomplete, possibly to widen the article's appeal among its non-mathematical readership. In the meantime, more thorough authors have repeatedly mentioned Thaler's work. The point is that the Thaler model is agnostic to brain anatomy, and discusses the phenomenon from first principles, namely non-linear switching elements (i.e., neurons) and synaptic integration. The argument typically goes over the head of the general public, but hardly a reason to obliterate all Thaler content and references. And with all DUE respect, the merit of his work has already been determined by peer review by some very reputable journals. Perky28 (talk) 21:56, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

Have you tried to resolve this previously?

I've tried, without success, to engage Jytdog on the article's talk page to seek a resolution.

How do you think we can help?

Neutral parties are needed to judge the validity of the references used in what was once the long-standing Computational Psychology section of this article.

Summary of dispute by Jytdog

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

I think we need to get clarity on where everybody is coming from before we can turn and address content. I am still awaiting a response to this. Jytdog (talk) 20:59, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

On the content issue, Perky keeps citing primary sources by Thaler, and an editorial rebutting Thaler. There was a hm! report in scientific american back in 1993 (see JSTOR 24941474 but if you look at sources providing authoritative overviews of NDE (say PMID 25357254, called "Almost 40 years investigating near-death experiences: an overview of mainstream scientific journals.", nor in the recent book ISBN 978-0-06-177725-7, or to grab something easy, this popular summary in the Atlantic) this "AI as a model for NDE" stuff isn't mentioned. Perky has been nonresponsive on this essential point. What that means is that this is UNDUE. I of course remain open to seeing sources about NDE generally that discuss this so that we can see that it is given WEIGHT by people in the field.

This is the typical problem we have conflicted or advocacy editors - wanting to give UNDUE emphasis to pet theories (their own or those of others), but I haven't been able to have that discussion as the OP is not engaging. Jytdog (talk) 21:15, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

Summary of dispute by Skeptical Brit

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

Talk:Near-death experience discussion

Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.

• Volunteer note - There has been discussion on the article talk page. The filing editor has notified one of the other editors but not the other listed editor. Also, an additional editor who is not listed took part in the talk page discussion. Robert McClenon (talk) 04:27, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

Talk:Scientific consensus

– General close. See comments for reasoning.

Closed discussion

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. Filed by Jamesmsnead on 16:16, 21 February 2018 (UTC). Have you discussed this on a talk page? Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already. Location of dispute Talk:Scientific consensus (edit | subject | history | links | watch | logs) Users involved Jamesmsnead (talk · contribs) DVdm (talk · contribs) J. Johnson (JJ) (talk · contribs) Dispute overview The stated definition of what constitutes a "scientific consensus" is based on citation (1). The cited source does not, from my review, comply with the Wikipedia guidelines for what constitutes an acceptable citation. The cited source is an organization's website that has, without authorship, created the cited definition to, as stated in the "about" page, advance their political position. This is not an authoritative academic source or a publisher's definition as required by the guidelines. I believe the citation should be removed. Others do not. Have you tried to resolve this previously? Extensive discussion has only brought derisive comments against me. How do you think we can help? The citation used should be reviewed to determine if it complies faithfully with the Wikipedia guidelines. Summary of dispute by DVdm Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker. Summary of dispute by J. Johnson (JJ) Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker. Summary of dispute by Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker. Talk:Scientific consensus discussion Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary. The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the dispute resolution noticeboard's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Talk:Medri Bahri#Ethiopian-Bias_in_Article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Medri_Bahri#MerabMillash(MedriBahri)_1870s-1890_(More_Notables_and_Events_then_1879)

– New discussion.

Filed by LeGabrie on 21:09, 21 February 2018 (UTC).

Have you discussed this on a talk page?

Yes, I have discussed this issue on a talk page already.

Location of dispute

• Talk:Medri Bahri#Ethiopian-Bias in Article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Medri Bahri#MerabMillash(MedriBahri) 1870s-1890 (More Notables and Events then 1879) (edit | subject | history | links | watch | logs)

Users involved

• LeGabrie (talk · contribs)
• Uknowofwiki (talk · contribs)
• François Robere (talk · contribs)

Dispute overview

It's about Medri Bahri, a historical political entity with its center in the Eritrean highlands. One side believes that it came effectively to an end in 1879, when its last lord, Woldemichael Solomon, was imprisoned and an Ethiopian governor, Ras Alula, seized power. He remained the de facto and de jure ruler of the Eritrean highlands until 1889, when he was expelled by Eritrean guerillas and the Italians. The other side claims that this was not the end of Medri Bahri as a political entity, as relatives of Woldemichael continued their resistance against Ras Alula as guerialls, especially since 1885. Therefore the end date of Medri Bahri should be given as 1890, when the Italians declared the region as part of Italian Eritrea, plus Italian Eritrea should be named as successor in the infobox.

Have you tried to resolve this previously?

Requested and received third opinion, discussing with an admin.

How do you think we can help?

By deciding which side is correct.

Summary of dispute by Uknowofwiki

Please keep it brief - less than 2000 characters if possible, it helps us help you quicker.

Summary of dispute by François Robere

I've been asked to opine to the matter through WP:3O, then later through my talk page. My analysis of the matter can be seen on the article's talk page. In short: the sources provided thus far support the conclusion that the kingdom of Medri Bahri ceased to exist in 1979 with the imprisonment of the king and the instillment of an Ethiopian governor in his place. I suspect some of the disagreement stems from a misunderstanding of the difference between the kingdom - the political entity - and the realm - the geographic expanse it once occupied; one of the sides may have seen the former used as a synonym for the latter - in the same way one might use the name of a historical duchy to refer to the region in once occupied - and resents the suggestion it lost its independence to a rivaling state. However the sources name both, and are clear as to which is which; which continued to exist through the Ethiopian rule, and which didn't. François Robere (talk) 21:46, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

Talk:Medri Bahri#Ethiopian-Bias_in_Article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Medri_Bahri#MerabMillash(MedriBahri)_1870s-1890_(More_Notables_and_Events_then_1879) discussion

Please keep discussion to a minimum before being opened by a volunteer. Continue on article talk page if necessary.