Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement: Difference between revisions
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*I'd like to hear from Ludwigs2 first before taking any action on this complaint. [[User:Timotheus Canens|T. Canens]] ([[User talk:Timotheus Canens|talk]]) 07:02, 12 October 2011 (UTC) |
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Revision as of 07:02, 12 October 2011
For appeals: create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}
See also: Logged AE sanctions
![]() | Important information Please use this page only to:
For all other problems, including content disagreements or the enforcement of community-imposed sanctions, please use the other fora described in the dispute resolution process. To appeal Arbitration Committee decisions, please use the clarification and amendment noticeboard. Only autoconfirmed users may file enforcement requests here; requests filed by IPs or accounts less than four days old or with less than 10 edits will be removed. All users are welcome to comment on requests except where doing so would violate an active restriction (such as an extended-confirmed restriction). If you make an enforcement request or comment on a request, your own conduct may be examined as well, and you may be sanctioned for it. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. (Word Count Tool) Statements must be made in separate sections. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as personal attacks, or groundless or vexatious complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions. To make an enforcement request, click on the link above this box and supply all required information. Incomplete requests may be ignored. Requests reporting diffs older than one week may be declined as stale. To appeal a contentious topic restriction or other enforcement decision, please create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}.
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Tuscumbia
Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Request concerning Tuscumbia
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 01:52, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Tuscumbia (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2#Amended Remedies and Enforcement
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- [1] First revert on Gülablı article on 27 Sept.
- [2] Second revert on Gülablı article on 27 Sept.
- [3] Third revert on Gülablı article on 28 Sept.
- [4] First revert on 1990 Tbilisi-Agdam bus bombing article on 30 Sept.
- [5] Second revert on 1990 Tbilisi-Agdam bus bombing article on 30 Sept.
- [6] Third revert on 1990 Tbilisi-Agdam bus bombing article on 3 Oct.
- [7] Fourth revert 1990 Tbilisi-Agdam bus bombing article on 3 Oct.
- Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
The recent edits which I have highlighted above are what I believe a mere sampling of the improper conduct of user Tuscumbia. Though well-acquainted with the rules of Wikipedia and after editing here for well over three years and after having been topic-banned for no less than three times, Tuscumbia displays an editing behavior that is highly unwelcome and needlessly combative. As the above examples show, he demonstrates a proclivity to edit war excessively and to engage immediately in revert wars over the most insignificant issues rather than taking part in fruitful discussions (in what can best be termed as having issues of WP:OWNERSHIP). Even when tags are added to an article, long after an editor has expressed his misgivings on the pertinent issues, he still decides to remove them and claims the other editor's concerns as baseless. But is that really his judgment to make? Although in discussions reasonable arguments (to most viewers) are introduced, Tuscumbia chooses to play games and makes burdensome and unrealistic demands which are not all in accord with Wikipedia's guidelines but appear to aim mainly to exhaust the other editors' patience. And when a user finally expresses his exasperation over these type of time-consuming edits, all he receives is a response like this: "You know what? You can complain as much as you want because that's the only thing you're capable of..." ([10]). How do remarks like this help at all? And even after his long time spent on Wikipedia, he still feels he can create articles with such non neutral POV opening sentences as "The Vrezh...is an underground militant movement reportedly created by Dashnak leadership in 1989 to torment Azerbaijan..." [11] until another editor informs him of why such wording is so problematic.
Much as I was opposed to it, I was told to present here my grievances by an administrator who is relatively familiar with such cases. I myself do not know what is to be done but familiar as I am with Tuscumbia's long history of edit wars and his tendency to make snide remarks against other editors, I believe perhaps a form of revert parole needs to be established to compel him to express his views on the talk page, rather than drive him to press the revert button with whatever edit he disagrees with. His attitude toward others must also become more constructive because what he is doing can best be termed as stonewalling. Regards, --Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 01:52, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- I should like to add that this request has been re-listed after being archived by the bot on October 10.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 20:53, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- Furthermore, even though Tuscumbia has been warned and topic banned twice for specifically choosing to exclude a sources based on his or her ethnicity, he still continues to use it in his arguments as evidenced by a remark he made just today.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 16:40, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Discussion concerning Tuscumbia
Statement by Tuscumbia
Frankly, I don't even know how to react to this report which has no grounds, no evidence of wrongdoing and most importanly, is filed in bad faith. First off, the report itself is apparently filed in retaliation to the report I had filed on Takabeg which also included the inputs from Marshal Bagramyan. You might notice that ever since that report was filed (and was archived without result for reasons which I still don't understand), Marshal has been following me on articles I created such as 1990 Tbilisi-Agdam bus bombing, 1991 Azerbaijani Mil Mi-8 shootdown and Vrezh in an obvious attempt of trolling and disruptive editing activity. Now, I would understand if an editor has grounds for concern and puts forward reliable sources to support his arguments, but you will not see that in Marshal's edits and arguments. I will present that evidence below.
- Article Gülablı: In his report above, Marshall hides the evidence of his wrongdoing. On September 15, he made this edit, replacing the legitimate name of Gulabli with Vazgenashen, which is an illegitimate name given by the separatist authorities currently in control of the village, albeit the name Gulabli is sourced from a neutral GEOnet Names Server. More importantly though, he added this Armeniapedia link as a source for his additions. Armeniapedia is a one sided unreliable source owned and operated by User:RaffiKojian ([13]) who has been recently collaborating with Marshall on articles Dashalty and Barda, Azerbaijan. Off-Wiki coordination? His second edit is the revert to his version from User Dighapet and third edit is the revert from my version where I restored information based on neutral sources, including the name Vazgenashen as called by Armenians and adding links to other Wikipedia, removing the Azerbaijani drone shootdown section which incorrectly referred to the village as Vazgenashen, based on Armenian news piece Armenian Reporter. My second revert on September 27 13:58 and one on September 28, commenting on existence of POV on the talk page [14] and [15]. As another user Vugar mentioned providing a link to Wikimapia, the village Vazgenashen is not even the same village. See the map and description in Russian: Село, построенное после Карабахской войны для армян-беженцев (A village, built for Armenian refugees after Karabakh war)
- Article 1990 Tbilisi-Agdam bus bombing, my revert on September 30 is the undoing of Marshall's I DON'T LIKE IT attitude, where he replaced the word "terrorist" and removed the affiliation of the terrorist group to Dashnaks, completely disregarding the sources [16] and [17] which corroborate the text of the article. My second revert is undoing of the edit by a sockpuppet Szeget of an infamous sock master Xebulon (I do wonder how this sockpuppet finds his ways to be on the same page as Marshall. Off-wiki coordination? Ducking?) My first revert on October 3 is undoing of Marshall's violation of WP:OR and WP:IDONTLIKEIT because all he does is change the sourced data to make it seem less reliable by removing words like "perpetrators" and reference to Dashnaks, again, when the text is supported by sources and while Marshall does not provide a single source for his changes although I repeatedly asked him to provide sources which corroborate his argument and changes [18], [19], [20] which he, in turn, calls "overburdensome request". My secondrevert on October 3 is the removal of POV and Unreliability tags which Marshall added on October 3 in the absence of any sources to support his arguments and changes. To sum up, instead of looking for sources supporting his arguments, he likes to just add tags. Tags are added when something is disputable and both sides present sources upon which compromise is being reached. This user adds tags as last resort to mislabel the article, already well sourced.
- Article Vrezh, sourced with 3 reliable sources: Marshall was just as active in disputing the data in this article. While his mentioning of reportedly created by Dashnak leadership in 1989 to torment Azerbaijan above is correct, he selectively forgets to mention that I did respond to him saying I was going to add quotation marks to the words directly quoted from the book: the Dashnak leadership created an underground armed movement called Vrezh ('vengeance' in Armenian) which was to torment Azerbaijan and the northern Caucasus for years to come, but that I reworded it to ...to fight Azerbaijan and authorities in Northern Caucasus by bombing civilian targets, which still didn't satisfy Marshall and to which his response was the information is copied from "Azerbaijani websites", which is a baseless claim by itself because no Azerbaijani website has been used in creating this article. Needless to say, Marshall's arguments derive from not liking what is sourced in the article.
Last, but not least, Marshall's misuse of admin's note as if it were instructions from AGK to report me, is simply an act of intended misrepresentation. AGK asked to report your concerns on this board to resolve the issues instead of asking him to resolve in on his page, not because he reviewed the evidence and supports you.
One more thing Marshall selectively forgets when bashing me about topic bans, is that he himself has been a subject to revert paroles and topic bans on AA2 4 times, including an indefinite topic-ban on Azerbaijan-Armenian pages (later reduced to one month) and indefinite restriction for making derogatory statments about sources or their authors based on nationaility, place, publication or similar general characteristic. So, who is really a long time edit-warrior and displays disruptive behavior?
I, in the years of editing (less that Marshall has spent) have created 343 articles for various subjects including oil and gas fields, government bodies and institutions, food and drinks, TV shows and personalities, crime, terrorism related to Norway, United States, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Brazil, Germany, Sweden, Russia, Turkey, Turkmenistan, Angola, Romania, etc. It just happens that most of articles I created fall under category Azerbaijan which seemingly causes discontent for MarshallBagramyan who decided to get rid of me. I think the admininstrators of this board should take a thorough look at the evidence, including Marshall's long term wrongdoings and take adequate action. Tuscumbia (talk) 14:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- I am really not sure where exactly on the discussion page of the article Marshall sees me "excluding" authors based on ethnicity, as he tries to entrap me into enforcement? What I said was that while the data is conflicting (see on 1823 data from neutral authors and 1897 census of Russia), and while he discredits neutral authors who have no relative affiliation to Azerbaijan, the author of Armenian heritage is more likely to write in favor of Armenian side of the story than those unrelated to Azerbaijan authors in favor of Azerbaijani side. And this is all because Marshall tries to dismiss any reliable neutral source which does not support his claims. My full response on Marshall's misinterpretation is on the talk page of the article. Tuscumbia (talk) 17:08, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning Tuscumbia
Result concerning Tuscumbia
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
No More Mr Nice Guy
Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Request concerning No More Mr Nice Guy
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- ZScarpia 23:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- No More Mr Nice Guy (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- WP:ARBPIA#Discretionary_sanctions
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- 23:39, 26 September 2011 No More Mr Nice Guy made a gratuitous personal attack against user Talknic (talk · contribs) on the talk page of the 1948 Arab–Israeli War article, writing: "How about you desist wasting everyone's time with your silly trolling?" He twice reinstated the comment after it was struck-out by me. The comment runs counter to the WP:ARBPIA#Decorum principle that editors avoid "unseemly conduct" such as personal attacks and incivility. The ARBPIA remedies allow any uninvolved administrator to impose discretionary sanctions on any editors working in the ARBIA if, despite being warned, they repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the expected standards of behaviour in Wikipedia.
- Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)
- Notified on 14:12, 13 April 2009 by PhilKnight (talk · contribs)
- Notified on 21:41, 26 May 2010 by HJ Mitchell (talk · contribs)
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
The ARBPIA rulings say: "Wikipedia users are expected to behave reasonably, calmly, and courteously in their interactions with other users; to approach even difficult situations in a dignified fashion and with a constructive and collaborative outlook; and to avoid acting in a manner that brings the project into disrepute. Unseemly conduct, such as personal attacks, incivility, assumptions of bad faith, trolling, harassment, disruptive point-making, and gaming the system, is prohibited." I do not know any editor who is as relentlessly snide and sarcastic as No More Mr Nice Guy, who appears to be making a determined and succesful effort to live up to his user name. On 26 September, No More Mr Nice Guy left a baseless and insulting remark about user Talknic (talk · contribs) on the talk page of the 1948 Arab–Israeli War article, writing: "How about you desist wasting everyone's time with your silly trolling?" The Wikipedia talk page guidelines allow the removal of personal attacks (and also, as I think the comment fits the description, ironically, trolling: "A troll deliberately exploits tendencies of human nature or of an online community to upset people."). Accordingly, I struck out No More Mr Nice Guy's comment. He then re-instated it, I struck it out and then No More Mr Nice Guy re-instated it again. The following diffs show the sequence of events:
- 23:39, 26 September 2011 No More Mr Nice Guy made a gratuitous personal attack against user Talknic.
- 13:36, 2 October 2011 Feeling that the comment crossed well beyond the line of acceptability, I struck it out.
- 18:54, 2 October 2011 No More Mr Nice Guy reverted the striking out.
- 19:50, 2 October 2011 I reverted No More Mr Nice Guy's revert and stated that if the offending comment was re-instated again, I would take it to one of the noticeboards.
- 20:04, 2 October 2011 No More Mr Nice Guy reinstated his comment, leaving the edit summary, "Go ahead."
On making the first reinstatement, No More Mr Nice Guy left the edit summary, "I believe I told you already not to edit my talk page comments." This is a reference to an incident in November 2010 when I struck out an off-topic (irrelevant to the topic) and insulting comment of No More Mr Nice Guy's which he again insisted on reinstating. This diff shows the sequence of edits made at the Human rights in Israel talk page. This link points to the discussion that was had about it on No More Mr Nice Guy's user talk page. ← ZScarpia 23:33, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Response to No More Mr Nice Guy's comment of 00:45, 3 October 2011 (UTC):
- No More Mr Nice Guy says that his comment wasn't a personal attack. The section of the WP:NPA policy which addresses what a personal attack is says that it includes "accusations about personal behavior that lack evidence". It goes on to say that "serious accusations require serious evidence". No More Mr Nice Guy told Talknic (talk · contribs): "How about you desist wasting everyone's time with your silly trolling?" It looked to me as though Talknic was engaging on the talk page in a constructive, reasoned and polite way and that No More Mr Nice Guy had no grounds at all to accuse him of "silly trolling" or of "wasting everyone's time".
- No More Mr Nice Guy uses the defence that, "I'm not the first person who described talknic's behavior as trolling." It did look to me as though Talknic was being harassed from several different directions, but I didn't notice any other comments as baseless or as unacceptable as No More Mr Nice Guy's.
- No More Mr Nice Guy quotes the Wikipedia:Talk guideline about editing the comments of others and seems to suggest that I breached it by again striking out his comment after he objected. The guideline - and it is a guideline - does not, though, say "stop if there is any objection", but "normally stop if there is any objection". From my point of view, I was giving No More Mr Nice Guy two chances to avoid being reported for making a personal attack, neither of which he accepted or took other steps to avoid, but merely insisted on reinstating his worthless and abusive comment.
- No More Mr Nice Guy wrote: "ZScaripa removed my comment without discussing the issue with me beforehand (or afterwards) and removed it again after I objected. He came directly to this board in what seems like an attempt to remove someone he perceives as having opposing views to his." As No More Mr Nice Guy's talk page shows, I tried to discuss one of his talk page comments with him once before. That proved to be something of a waste of my time. That being the case and there being nothing in the guidelines obliging me to enter into a discussion before striking out the personal attack, why would I? No More Mr Nice Guy could equally be asked why he didn't open a discussion with me instead of simply reverting me twice. I didn't come straight to this board, as I could have done and perhaps would have done if had been true that I was merely trying to remove someone who has views opposing my own, but gave him several chances to accept the removal, or modification, of his remark. The second time, I warned him that, if the comment was reinstated, I would take it to one of the noticeboards. He reinstated his comment and told me to "go ahead". I've been editing on Wikipedia for almost six years. In that time I've made reports on the AE and AI on two occasions, this being the second (and the first time against No More Mr Nice Guy). If I was in the game of trying to get rid of editors whose views conflicted with mine, there being quite a few I should think, I'd have been a lot busier than that. In fact, what does motivate me in cases such as this is that, if I see a remark being made to another editor which looks way beyond the bounds of acceptability, I feel duty-bound to do something about it.
← ZScarpia 02:51, 3 October 2011 (UTC) (edited: 10:19, 3 October 2011 (UTC))
@No More Mr Nice Guy, 04:12, 3 October 2011: I don't make threats, therefore I carefully considered what to say in my edit comment. I decided that, on balance, it was better to give you fair warning that I would resort to one of the noticeboards if your comment was reinstated. Having been told that your remark was offensive, I hoped that you would carefully consider whether to delete or modify it. What constructive purpose does it serve? The section that I commented in may have been half-way up the talk page, but the discussion there is a currently active one. ← ZScarpia 11:42, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
@Tznkai, 04:25, 3 October 2011 (UTC): I will change the link given in the Sanction or remedy to be enforced section to one pointing to the Remedies section of the ARBPIA case. The current link is the same one used in the case against Cptnono above, where it didn't raise any objections. ← ZScarpia 09:56, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
@Tznkai, 23:27, 4 October 2011 (UTC): Thanks. When you said, "refactoring someone else's comments, especially directed against you, is also problematic," were you speaking in general, or are you thinking that No More Mr Guy's remark was directed at me rather than Talknic? And is a lesson I should be learning from this that instead of striking personal attacks against other users in the ARBPIA area out I should resort straight to the AE noticeboard? ← ZScarpia 00:28, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Ok. Thanks again. ← ZScarpia 00:51, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
Since, this request hasn't been closed yet, I'd like to reply to comments including the latest. ← ZScarpia 18:08, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Discussion concerning No More Mr Nice Guy
Statement by No More Mr Nice Guy
I do not believe my comment was a personal attack. It hardly even rises to the level of being mildly uncivil, as anyone who has a couple of hours to spare and would like to read the previous discussions on that page and its archives can see. Furthermore, I'm not the first person who described talknic's behavior as trolling.
WP:Talk#Others' comments is pretty clear that "Editing – or even removing – others' comments is sometimes allowed. But you should exercise caution in doing so, and normally stop if there is any objection". I objected. ZScarpia re-edited my comment.
The same guideline also says "This generally does not extend to messages that are merely uncivil; deletions of simple invective are controversial."
In summary, there was no personal attack, ZScaripa removed my comment without discussing the issue with me beforehand (or afterwards) and removed it again after I objected. He came directly to this board in what seems like an attempt to remove someone he perceives as having opposing views to his. I believe WP:BOOMERANG should apply. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 00:45, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- If the consensus among uninvolved editors turns out to be that telling someone he's trolling is a personal attack I'll strike out the comment myself. Please excuse me if I don't take the word of an editor who's not only involved up to his eyeballs, but has made such frivolous charges against me in the past. Threatening me in an edit summary that if I don't accept his unacceptable behavior he'll report me can hardly be taken as an attempt to discuss the issue.
- Here is another editor telling talknic he's trolling on the same talk page. If you bother to read the page you'll see that the accusation is not without merit.
- Perhaps ZScarpia could let us know what brought him to a page he hasn't edited in six months, and rather than comment on one of the two open RfCs or the merge proposal for example, make a comment in a section mid page and then strike out an almost week old comment of mine. Twice. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 04:12, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
WP:NPA - Personal attacks do not include civil language used to describe an editor's actions, and when made without involving their personal character, should not be construed as personal attacks, for instance, stating "Your statement is a personal attack..." is not itself a personal attack.
So once again, there was no personal attack, my comment was removed without cause or discussion and then removed again after I objected, then rather than use DR or WQA as suggested in NPA (if this even qualified as a "recurring attack", which of course it doesn't) ZScarpia came directly here. I could speculate as to why he chose this forum, but I think it's pretty obvious. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 21:48, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning No More Mr Nice Guy
This appears to be another one of those chronic cases of wikilawyering that admins have warned in the past will result in sanctions. An editor's entire talk page contributions appear to be a combination of WP:IDIDNOTHEARTHAT and WP:OR, yet the editor who tells him as much is brought up "civility" charges. What a waste of time.--brewcrewer (yada, yada) 03:19, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
- Agreed, this is not even close to warranting administrator action. Barely even a AGF violation, let alone NPA. I'd suggest solving this between the three of yourselves. Toa Nidhiki05 14:50, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
Result concerning No More Mr Nice Guy
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
- Calling someone a troll is an attack on their personal character. Thus is a personal attack. Describing someone as trolling is close enough that it really isn't a useful difference. Compare: "you're an idiot" and "stop your idiocy." It is all disrespectful Any further analysis of this issue would be silly.
- That having been said, refactoring someone else's comments, especially directed against you, is also problematic. It does little more than inflame opinion, especially when you've been asked to stop. So don't do it.
- The point of WP:NPA, WP:CIV and most of the conduct policies on Wikipedia is to prevent bickering and promote respect in order to preserve a healthy editing environment. Which is to say, both of you, please try to treat each other better and go write something.
- Request for discretionary sanctions
Declined.--Tznkai (talk) 23:27, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
- ZScarpia, I misunderstood and misexplained what happened on the reversion. Let me explain it better. Don't refactor comments, as a general rule. I don't think its within policy, but even if it is, its really bad idea, because it makes the situation worse, not better.--Tznkai (talk) 00:33, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
- Request for discretionary sanctions
- I basically concur with what Tznkai has said above. While the remark in question was sub-optimal, refactoring it simply made the situation worse, and edit-warring over a strike out on a talk page is, again, never helpful. So it's WP:TROUTs all around, I'd say. There is no need for any sanctions, or other administrative action and this request can, IMO, be closed. Eluchil404 (talk) 13:01, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
Toddy1
Toddy1 has been notified of the discretionary sanctions under DIGWUREN. EdJohnston (talk) 19:01, 11 October 2011 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Request concerning Toddy1
I think this falls squarely into the category of "making generalized accusations that persons of a particular national or ethnic group are engaged in Holocaust denial or harbor Nazi sympathies". Allegations that diaspora Ukrainians have connections to individuals involved in the Holocaust/Nazi collaboration is unacceptable.
If this is the wrong way to request a formal warning, I do apologise. I didn't want to seem as if I was admin-fishing, so I came here instead of an admin's talk-page.
Discussion concerning Toddy1Statement by Toddy1I had hoped that this this unfair request would have been declined by now. As this has not happened, I need to make a statement. Events leading to my posting the remarks, the other editor is is complaining about.
I note that someone has argued below that the incident on 1 October was not a racist incident. However, this is English language Wikipedia, and the accepted English definition of a racist incident is "any incident that is perceived to be racist by the victim or any other person". This definition comes from recommendation 12 of the Macpherson Report of 1999, which was accepted. The message I posted that is being complained about
Note that contrary to the assertion by the complainant, this message does not make generalized accusations about persons of a particular national or ethnic group. In countries that have an established independence, like England and France, "nationalists" is how people from extreme usually racist parties are described - such as National Front (France) or English Defence League. "Nationalists" is also used to describe sectarian groups such as Provisional Irish Republican Army. In the context of Ukraine in the late 1980s and early 1990s, mainstream politicians who favour independence from the USSR could be described as "nationalists"; these days in domestic Ukrainian politics it refers to people like Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists. People who make xenophobic or racist edits to Wikipedia tend to be referred to on Wikipedia as nationalists. Therefore my remark was not about the members of the Ukrainian diaspora in general, but about a group who make racist and xenophobic edits. There must be more than a million people in spread between Canada and the USA who have Ukrainian roots, who I would class as Ukrainian-Canadians and Ukrainian-Americans. In 1947, former soldiers of 14 SS Division were allowed to emigrate to Canada and to the United Kingdom (this is very famous). I am not sure how many of them emigrated to Canada - maybe 5000. I do not know how many Ukrainians who had collaborated in the Final Solution emigrated to Canada and the USA - we are probably talking of hundreds. In any case if you add these two categories together,they are a tiny proportion of the people of Ukrainian descent who live in Canada and the USA. The remark that is the subject of this complaint, in effect alleges that many (not all) of the people in Canada and USA making racist/xenophobic edits to articles related to Ukraine are not representative of normal Ukrainian-Canadians and Ukrainian-Americans, but instead are likely to be the children and grandchildren of this tiny minority mentioned above. I fully accept that the remark I made was the wrong remark to make. It was made when I was angry and upset about the racist incident and the way it appeared to be handled. If the editor who made the edits that appeared to be racist had been the one making the complaint about me, he would to some extent be justified in saying that I had made a personal attack on him. The Unclean hands defence would clearly apply. How is the situation different when the complainant is his friend who at the same time as making this complaint about me was editing on another AE incident to get that editor unblocked? DIGWUREN Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Digwuren#Editors warned says as follows:
If you look at other Digwuren cases - here is an example - you can see that people who are accused of violating the "Digwuren rule" tend to be accused of doing it many times, not a one-off unwise comment.--Toddy1 (talk) 20:52, 6 October 2011 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning Toddy1Looking at edits like this I get the feeling Tobby1 is trying to do the right (saying all are equal) thing but he got carried away and tried to outmaneuver (possible) opponents by discriminating them. I advice him to take a off-wiki cooling down period. — Yulia Romero • Talk to me! 16:42, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Result concerning Toddy1
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The Last Angry Man
The Last Angry Man (talk · contribs) topic-banned for three months. Igny (talk · contribs) topic-banned for six months. |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning The Last Angry Man
6 Oct 3 Oct 30 Sep Here is my warning not to revert without discussion. 25 Sep 24 Sep Here is my invitation to a discussion over the POV tag.
This is not a content dispute, so I will not discuss the content issues which brought me here. This is a request to stop TLAM's persistent disruptive behaviour. This might not be the whole picture, more could become apparent after someone reviews TLAM's edit history, and other involved editors start adding their remarks. I will add more comments here after the WP:EEML team rushes here for TLAM's defence and mud slinging. Re -Mkativerata. Did you read the number 4 diff, or not? Was it mild to you? Was it not directed at other editors?? I am not taking my EEML comment back, but to clarify, I meant their tactics rather than the members of the mailing list, see here or some clarification. Needless to say, my intentional reference to their tactics saved a ton of time for you because you are not reading kilobytes of mud thrown at me by MArtin and others. (Igny (talk) 16:52, 7 October 2011 (UTC))
See here.
Discussion concerning The Last Angry ManStatement by The Last Angry ManIgny`s reverts
[24] Reverts though there was no discussion on the talk page and the tag was removed within policy and does not use the talk page, He is asked by user User:Mamalujo why[25] he did the revert he posts a threat of AE enforcement on the article talk page, but does not discuss why he reverted the tag in.[26] [27][28] His last revert on Communist terrorism [29] And again does not go to talk. My last removal of the POV was based on Paul Siebert stating he believed it could be removed which meant there was a consensus for it to be removed, Igny then decided to be WP:POINTY and tagged a section. When I said he was a joker I meant he was messing about it was not meant as an attack. Since my unblock I have removed the POV tag on this article twice, the first time as there were no section on talk per policy and the second as there is now a consensus for it to be removed as Paul Siebert has said he believes it can be removed. This is not edit warring over a tag as has been claimed.
Reachs 3R in one day. [30][31][32]
[38] [39] [40][41] [42][43] [44][45]
Not surprising really, why not throw in the kitchen sink whilst at it. Am ?I the only person on wiki who has said piss? I very much doubt that,[49] it is a well used English expression. Lets try again is also a well used English expression, take me out and hang me till dead why not. I was unblocked unconditionally by the Committee[50] and have followed policy to the best that I can, I have used talk pages extensively, and have always discussed any reverts I have made on contentious edits. I have not edited against consensus as Igny claims on MKUCR article, there was a clear consensus that the source should not be grossly misrepresented as it had been.
Comments by others about the request concerning The Last Angry ManComment by VecrumbaThe provocative and preemptive personal attack of WP:EEML WITCH! screaming rather underscores the source of WP:BATTLEFIELD attitude here. PЄTЄRS Comment by TammsaluI concur with Vecrumba that mention of "the EEML team rushing here" is a bad faithed personal attack. I note that Igny was previously blocked for "disruptive comments on case workshop, including protracted assumption of bad faith and unfounded suggestions of backstage collusion"[51], i.e. making unfounded accusations of collusion, and it seems he hasn't learned and continues do so on his talk page[52] as well as here. --Martin Tammsalu (talk) 04:35, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
Comment by LvivskeI don't have a stake or opinion on the behavior shown in the articles mentioned by Mkativerata, but in fairly recent edits I have noticed battleground behavior from Igny on the Holodomor article (1, 2, 3, where he was edit warring hard the lead up to the article being put on indefinite lock (due to the massive warring going on). TLAM was also in there, but I found he was enforcing the talk page consensus that Igny was opposed to, and his edits were far fewer in the lock countdown. There's a particularly egregious moment on the 25th (1 2), where TLAM removes a June-inserted POV tag saying there's no talk page discussion, Igny reverts, makes some of his own edits, and then says its okay now to remove it. Pure WP:OWN mentality or what? I understand that these topics tend to be polarized between two schools of thought and appear to between two cohesive, chummy groups, but the battleground mentality has got to stop or all these articles will just keep getting locked in limbo.--Львівське (talk) 05:52, 7 October 2011 (UTC) Comment by tangently involved RussaviaUmmm, I have a HUGE problem with this. TLAM is clearly a sockpuppet of the banned user Marknutley. That the Arbcom in its infinite
Thank you ever so much Biophys for the clear evidence that you continue to stalk my edits after all these years. After your harrassment and hounding of the last couple of weeks, this is surely going to make for a damning request for either the Committee or right here at AE. Unless of course you are able to tell us how you managed to find an edit that I made to an article which you have never edited, and for which the PROD notice was not yet placed on the editors talk page. Stalking my contributions is obviously the only way, correct? Anyway, thanks for confirming what I have always known. Russavia Let's dialogue 16:19, 7 October 2011 (UTC) comment by uninvolved CollectComments accusing a person of being a sock and therefore blockable do not belong here. The content disputes are noted - and that is what they are. Using this board to block or ban a person where they have shown no incivility or other reasons for the block or ban is improper. DIGWUREN is likely equally applicable to Igny et al, b the way, using the identical arguments. Let's stick to proper use of this board. Cheers. Collect (talk) 11:35, 7 October 2011 (UTC) @MS: Do you really think that the similarities are sufficient to make this an SPI case? I can find "similarities" between Igny, TFD and Paul Siebert in wording and positions on several articles - but simply disagreeing with a person is an extraordinarily bad reason to pursue anything without some actual "evidence" (such as intersection of edits n article and user pages, etc.) As to using "British editing mannerisms" as an argument - I do not see sufficient similarities to label TLAM as MN by a long shot. I suspect at least three editors on Wikipedia are based in the UK as a minimum, including Jimbo Wales who currently uses 'British editing mannerisms." YMMV. Cheers. Collect (talk) 12:28, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
Comment by MathsciPlease note these talk page comments of TLAM from 2 October.[58] Other edits of TLAM have been discussed with FPaS and others on WP:ANI here. In response to the comments of FPaS, although there are certain minor differences in writing style, generally TLAM's British editing mannerisms (including his "blokish" English) and choice of subject are close to those of Marknutley. For the stubs both editors have created on uncontroversial books, there seem to be very few differences in the style/format of the first drafts of Council of Dads and The Castle in the Attic (MN) and the first draft of Annie Dunne (TLAM). Also the format of edit summaries directed towards individual editors (@ PS, @ TFD, etc) are not common, but shared by both accounts. Beyond these technical details, a newbie making their first edits on wikipedia at talk:communist terrorism, first with a London IP and then with their newly created account, is odd. Put simply: Hersfold was probably correct in his initial assessment. But note the use of the word "probably" ... Mathsci (talk) 11:56, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
Comment by BiophysNominating for deletion [59] an article created by TLAM [60] looks pointy to me. Biophys (talk) 15:42, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
Comments by Paul SiebertI have one general comment and few comments on the Mkativerata's post.
In summary, the only indication of Igny's incivility is his reference to the EEML case. In addition, I found his decision to file this AE request premature, especially in a situation when both users are the participants on of the mediation. PS The following TLAM's statement: "there is now a consensus for it to be removed as Paul Siebert has said he believes it can be removed." is a misinterpretation of my position. I explained my opinion specifically to TLAM: ("PS. re your last revert, let me explain that I do not think that the POV issues have been fully resolved. I just hope that we are probably approaching a consensus, so there is no need in immediate restoration of the tag. That position is just a demonstration of my good faith, and I expect some steps to be taken by you and others in a responce.--Paul Siebert (talk)" ). Therefore, I point the admin's attention at the fact that the reference to my opinion is unjustified in this particular case. I especially object to the attempt to use my post, which was made in a desire to create less aggressive atmosphere, in combative purposes. Comment by Greyhood
Result concerning The Last Angry Man
I'd love to keep this open but I think we've heard all we need to hear. Any more discussion here and I'd have been tempted to hand out sanctions to some of the third parties in this AE: Biophys in particular is walking a thin line. All third parties to DIGWUREN requests are on notice. I've read all the contributions from each "side" here. Regarding Paul Siebert's contributions, one of the very few helpful ones, I mostly disagree: This is not constructive participation in a discussion, it is asserting ones own view of the "consensus" and reverting accordingly, which is a tried and tested battleground edit-warring tactic. So, the topic bans are applied as proposed, subject to T.Canens' suggestion: 6 months for Igny, 3 months for TLAM. No exception for MEDCAB. Sockpuppetry allegations can be pursued elsewhere; for now, in light of Arbcom's unblock and the absence of damning new evidence, this is not the place. --Mkativerata (talk) 21:48, 7 October 2011 (UTC) |
Plot Spoiler
Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Request concerning Plot Spoiler
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- TransporterMan (TALK) 19:17, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Plot Spoiler (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Wikipedia:ARBPIA#General_1RR_restriction
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- 23:06, 8 October 2011 Initial revert
- 00:11, 9 October 2011 Second revert, 65 min later (violation)
- 00:32, 9 October 2011 Third revert, 21 min later (violation)
- Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)
- Warned on 6 Apr 2010 by Sandstein (talk · contribs)
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
Previously blocked on 06:03, 3 June 2010, for violation of this same sanction. Newcomer editor Public awareness (talk · contribs) may also need to be warned under ARBPIA as a result of this exchange.
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Discussion concerning Plot Spoiler
Statement by Plot Spoiler
Please note, the ARBPIA notice was added to the page after all these reverts had been made. I did not see the ARBPIA restrictions on the page and honestly forgot about that rule. I think this is a relatively minor content issue between Public Awareness that should be covered on the article's Talk: page. Plot Spoiler (talk) 15:21, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
- At the same time, I now recognize that the article is subject to the 1RR policy and I will not be breaching it in the future. I apologize for mistakenly overlooking this policy and I hope Public Awareness will WP:assume good faith so we can actually resolve this minor content dispute. Plot Spoiler (talk) 22:36, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- I've now self-reverted my last edit from the article for the sake of 1RR. Plot Spoiler (talk) 01:31, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning Plot Spoiler
Comment Public awareness is on three reverts on the article in question, he is removing a quote which is sourced to the New York Times. The Last Angry Man (talk) 19:39, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- Look more carefully. nableezy - 19:41, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- I just noticed, have amended my statement. The Last Angry Man (talk) 19:43, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
Comment PA's removal of the perfectly sourced and relevant content is borderline vandalism and any reasonable editor, including myself, would have reverted the baseless removal. --brewcrewer (yada, yada) 19:53, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- That isnt true. Both of these users have blatantly violated the 1 revert rule. Not a single one of the reverts is an allowable exception to that rule. nableezy - 19:55, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- What isn't true?--brewcrewer (yada, yada) 19:57, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- That the reverted edits are "borderline vandalism". That border is well-defined, and this is not that. nableezy - 20:07, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- "borderline vandalism" is actually a liberal description of the removal of relevant sourced material with nonsensical/incoherent edit summaries.--brewcrewer (yada, yada) 20:14, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- So, when an editor removes material with nonsensical summaries such as "better wording" or "dont see any footnotes, but referneces. reference 1 is foreign language article that appears to be an op-ed. unless its attribution is determined and noted, we will keep it simple" that is "borderline vandalism"? Or is it "borderline vandalism" when you, and you alone, makes the determination as to what edit summary is "nonsense"? Again, what vandalism is and is not is well-defined. The reverts listed here do not qualify for a vandalism exception as they were not reverting vandalism. nableezy - 20:21, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- @brewcrewer, the exception to xRR is for "reverting obvious vandalism" (emphasis in original). If you have to resort to wikilawyering, Public awareness's edits weren't "obvious vandalism". — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 20:35, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- if any wikilawyering is necessary, its needed to explain this edit summary. "calling him a liar"? What? Who? Where? When?--brewcrewer (yada, yada) 20:46, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- Please don't change the subject. You're trying to excuse a 1RR violation by wikilawyering. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 20:53, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- The subject is whether reverting with nonsensical/incoherent edit summaries can be considered vandalism. I have yet to see any policy contradicting said position or any attempt at rationalizing the removals and edit summaries. Attacking me does not count.--brewcrewer (yada, yada) 21:16, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- Really? You want a policy that contradicts "said position"? How about the policy that actually defines what vandalism is. See where it says Even if misguided, willfully against consensus, or disruptive, any good-faith effort to improve the encyclopedia is not vandalism. Edit warring over content is not vandalism? nableezy - 18:17, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
- I'm having a difficult time wrapping my head around the idea that the repeated removal of relevant sourced content without an edit summary would be considered vandalism, but once an incoherent/nonsensical edit summary is added it becomes kosher. I guess I'm not that good of a wikilawyer. Regardless, the whole issue appears to be moot because Plot Spoiler has apologized and self-reverted.--brewcrewer (yada, yada) 00:43, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
- Really? You want a policy that contradicts "said position"? How about the policy that actually defines what vandalism is. See where it says Even if misguided, willfully against consensus, or disruptive, any good-faith effort to improve the encyclopedia is not vandalism. Edit warring over content is not vandalism? nableezy - 18:17, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
- The subject is whether reverting with nonsensical/incoherent edit summaries can be considered vandalism. I have yet to see any policy contradicting said position or any attempt at rationalizing the removals and edit summaries. Attacking me does not count.--brewcrewer (yada, yada) 21:16, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- Please don't change the subject. You're trying to excuse a 1RR violation by wikilawyering. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 20:53, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- if any wikilawyering is necessary, its needed to explain this edit summary. "calling him a liar"? What? Who? Where? When?--brewcrewer (yada, yada) 20:46, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- @brewcrewer, the exception to xRR is for "reverting obvious vandalism" (emphasis in original). If you have to resort to wikilawyering, Public awareness's edits weren't "obvious vandalism". — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 20:35, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- So, when an editor removes material with nonsensical summaries such as "better wording" or "dont see any footnotes, but referneces. reference 1 is foreign language article that appears to be an op-ed. unless its attribution is determined and noted, we will keep it simple" that is "borderline vandalism"? Or is it "borderline vandalism" when you, and you alone, makes the determination as to what edit summary is "nonsense"? Again, what vandalism is and is not is well-defined. The reverts listed here do not qualify for a vandalism exception as they were not reverting vandalism. nableezy - 20:21, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- "borderline vandalism" is actually a liberal description of the removal of relevant sourced material with nonsensical/incoherent edit summaries.--brewcrewer (yada, yada) 20:14, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- That the reverted edits are "borderline vandalism". That border is well-defined, and this is not that. nableezy - 20:07, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- What isn't true?--brewcrewer (yada, yada) 19:57, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- That isnt true. Both of these users have blatantly violated the 1 revert rule. Not a single one of the reverts is an allowable exception to that rule. nableezy - 19:55, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
Sorry, I did at the time of the edit remember something about very limited editing reverts for Israeli articles, but than I saw that Nableezy, AndresHerutJaim (190.17.232.48), and Plot Spoiler all made several quick reverts, so I did make a second revert. The situation was bleak so I went to Fastily (my go to admin) for advice, which I took and went to Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard for help. Vesal did agree with my edit on the talk page for the article, that the current form did "imply that the man is a hypocrite" though he did not agree it was a BLP violation. I'm sure to remember now that I can only revert once for Israeli articles, but, where should I go for help when it is instantly clear the other editor has no interest in listening to get outside help as my section at Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard was closed for being "premature"? Public awareness (talk) 20:28, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
- The article's Talk page is a good place to start. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 20:31, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
Result concerning Plot Spoiler
- From the Vandalism policy page: "Vandalism is any addition, removal, or change of content in a deliberate attempt to compromise the integrity of Wikipedia." (emphasis in original). There is no such thing as borderline vandalism. The malicious intent is either there or not. There is a borderline case for vandalism, where the proof is less clear.--Tznkai (talk) 18:20, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
Ludwigs2
Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Request concerning Ludwigs2
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Ludwigs2 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Pseudoscience#Discretionary_sanctions
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
Poisoning the talk page of an article (includes some personal attacks)
- 18:18, 7 October 2011 Poisoning the well - telling a "new" user that his opponents are baiting him, as opposed to attempting to get him to adhere to expected standards of behavior and normal editorial process.
- 22:48, 7 October 2011 Poisoning the well - comparing a group of editors he disagrees with to the KKK.
- 13:22, 11 October 2011 Poisoning the well - "This is - in my experience - typical of skeptical editors on fringe articles, who become collectively obsessed... So my advice is that all of you skeptics calm down and develop the body rather than fight like spitting cats..."
- 14:19, 11 October 2011 Defends the above.
Gross violation of NPA
- 13:26, 11 October 2011 "Stop being a troll..." on the talk page of an editor he is in a dispute with.
Edit warring
- 19:59, 10 October 2011 Bold edit. Possibly reverting something, but generally bold.
- 21:34, 10 October 2011 Reverts Dominus Vobisdu's revert of the bold edit
- 03:57, 11 October 2011 Reverts back to his preferred version from one being worked on by "new user" Givedarkkk and Dominus Vobisdu. His preferred version had previously been reverted by Skinwalker.
During this timeframe, Ludwigs2 made no edits to the talk page of the article. Only after his possibly third revert did he begin discussing on the talk page, as BRD requires
- Warned on 04:09, 22 September 2008 by Elonka (talk · contribs)
- Blocked on 23:27, 8 March 2011 by Sandstein (talk · contribs), see also [65], Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Arbitration Enforcement sanction handling.
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Discussion concerning Ludwigs2
Statement by Ludwigs2
Comments by others about the request concerning Ludwigs2
- Over the last two weeks, a group of new editors including Hipocrite have taken over the Astrology page and made sweeping unilateral edits to purge what their leading editor, Dominus Vobisdu describes as “fraudulent bullshit”. They have removed well cited material with scant reference to the Talk page and without consensus in order to push a fundamentalist sceptical POV. Any alternative edits have been quashed by force of numbers rather than force of reason. This request is an attempt to censor one of the few editors, Ludwigs2 who is engaging in civil debate on the talk page and contributing towards an impartial point of view. Robert Currey talk 22:07, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
- I agree with the above in general. I'm not a frequent editor on the Astrology page but Robertcurrey sums up recent developments well. During the past week I have found that a number of editors (including Hipocrite who has initiated this request) have made drastic changes to the page without discussion and against previous consensus. There are those such as Robertcurrey that represent the astrology side of the argument but it seems they are presently outnumbered by a group of editors pushing the pseudoscience agenda, trying to discredit astrology every chance they get (little do they know that, without thousands of years of astrology cultivated by top minds throughout history, there wouldn't be any science to talk about today). A refreshing new face is Ludwigs2, who in my mind represents a very sober middle ground. He/she seems well educated, balanced and writes succinctly. It is a shame that an action such as this one can be initiated by editors who are red-handed in their own POV pushing, blatantly edit-warring, ignoring the Talk page, removing well-sourced and balanced material, etc, etc. If anything, Hipocrite and his/her group should be questioned on their uninformed and destructive actions (both on the Astrology page itself and various political maneuvering on the side). SLP (talk) 23:22, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
Coments by Collect
Ludwigs2 is a passionate editor. He does however have a strong bent for incivility towards others, which well ought to be curbed. The diffs show part of this, but it is a general problem which he has, at times, acknowledged. It is likely that any admin will not impose the strongest discretionary sanctions, but clearly a minimal one may not be efficaceous. Cheers. Collect (talk) 18:35, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
- Agree with this. Be——Critical 01:47, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
Comment by mostly uninvolved A Quest For Knowledge
I am mostly uninvolved in this dispute. IIRC, I have never edited this article. I only made one small suggestion on the article talk page[67] and my change was implemented by another editor.[68] Ludwigs2 made a comment to me that was a tad bit too aggressive and I started a discussion on his talk page. I would like to continue that discussion with him.
Hipocrite posted some diffs and it's obvious that Ludwigs2 needs to tone down the language a bit, but there is also much wisdom in what he says. Sceptical editors on fringe topics who go overboard and ram the debunking down the reader's throat is a real problem on Wikipedia. It makes Wikipedia look silly and unprofessional. Whether this is a problem on this particular article, I cannot say. Like I said, I have never edited the article and only made a suggestion on the talk page.
So granted, my experience in regards to this article is limited, but I don't think that arbitration enforcement is necessary at this point. I would like to continue my dialog with Ludwigs2 in the hopes that it will be fruitful. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 02:45, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
Comment by Short Brigade Harvester Boris
I have no real interest in Astrology other than occasionally glancing at the newspaper horoscopes and dipped into article for just a week or so (around late September - early October) after seeing it mentioned on a noticeboard or something. It was an eye-opening experience. There is a continual tension between a group of professional astrologers (such as User:Robertcurrey above, i.e., Robert Currey) and other advocates on the one hand, and more science-oriented ("skeptical") editors on the other. The article also is subject to ongoing external canvassing which results in a trickle of new (or maybe not) accounts who immediately bluelink their user and talk pages, make a few random edits, then become essentially WP:SPAs. Despite all this, there was constructive movement on the article and a more-or-less civil atmosphere overlying the tension. Ludwigs2 then arrived on the scene to pour butane on troubled waters, with helpful comments comparing science-oriented editors to the KKK and such. Amusing in its way but at that point I decided to bow out. I leave it to the wisdom of those enforcing the sanctions to decide what to do; it's of little consequence to me, as I think editing the article just isn't worth the hassle. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 03:18, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
Result concerning Ludwigs2
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
- I'd like to hear from Ludwigs2 first before taking any action on this complaint. T. Canens (talk) 07:02, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
Hearfourmewesique
Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Request concerning Hearfourmewesique
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Nableezy 19:43, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Hearfourmewesique (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Wikipedia:ARBPIA#General 1RR restriction
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- 14:28, 11 October 2011 same as this past revert
- 19:07, 11 October 2011 labelled a revert
- Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)
- Blocked on October 3rd for edit warring at Palestinian people (the exact same article and almost the same exact edits)
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
The user is fresh off of a 1 week block for edit warring at the same article over the same material. The user insists that so long as he disputes the material that his preferred version must be retained. Straightforward violation of the 1RR. The user's directive in the last edit summary demonstrates an understanding that discussion is required, but oddly the user seems to be under the impression that "consensus" is needed for others' edits, not his or her own. A week long block did not make the point clear, so something else may be needed.
- BRD?!?!?!? If you want editors to follow BRD then when you are reverted you do not re-revert. This is a straightforward 1RR breach. I dont think I need to respond to the rest of the comments below, but if somebody feels there is any worth in them at all I will be happy to respond. nableezy - 19:57, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
- Excuse me??? "I dont think I need to respond to the rest of the comments below, but if somebody feels there is any worth in them at all[...]" – is this WP:CIVIL in any way? And in any case, there is a difference between an edit and a reversal. What exactly did I revert in my first edit today? Please do not provide an edit that's 10 diffs far behind, be honest here. Hearfourmewesique (talk) 20:09, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
- Respond in your own section please. The first edit was almost exactly the same as the reverts that you were blocked over. Both reverts removed Israeli-occupied prior to West Bank and also removed or close to 500,000 if including approximately 200,000 Jewish Israeli citizens in Israeli-annexed East Jerusalem. The edits need not be exactly the same for them to be reverts. A revert is any edit that undoes another editors edit, in whole or in part. By reverting portions of the same material in the first edit you made a revert. You then made a second revert. You can, from now until the request is closed, self revert your last edit. You still have not. nableezy - 20:17, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
- Excuse me??? "I dont think I need to respond to the rest of the comments below, but if somebody feels there is any worth in them at all[...]" – is this WP:CIVIL in any way? And in any case, there is a difference between an edit and a reversal. What exactly did I revert in my first edit today? Please do not provide an edit that's 10 diffs far behind, be honest here. Hearfourmewesique (talk) 20:09, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Discussion concerning Hearfourmewesique
Statement by Hearfourmewesique
This is a tactical war waged on a 1RR arbitration-enforced page. I made this edit to remove contentious information and stated in the edit summary that I am opening a discussion on a talk page, pleading editors not to revert me. This was my first edit, therefore it is not a reversal. I got reverted by Nableezy (talk · contribs) here, and although he replied on the talk page, he did not continue the discussion after I reverted him (for the first time, since the first edit was not a revert) here. So... this is Nableezy "giving me time", and this is him, 14 minutes later, notifying me of a report which was already filed. Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) is involved in this, mainly to enforce arbitration when it comes to leaving material that blatantly violates WP:NPOV and several other policies, to keep a Palestinian agenda in the articles. All I want is a fair discussion and for editors to respect WP:BRD, is it too much to ask? Hearfourmewesique (talk) 19:50, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
- Comment: it is untrue that the edits were the same as before the block, since the latter (earlier, chronologically) were mainly concerning the inclusion of East Jerusalem in "Palestinian territories". Hearfourmewesique (talk) 19:54, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning Hearfourmewesique
- As I wrote on your Talk page, calling your second revert "my one revert for the day" doesn't make it so. Your first edit of the day reverted (with minor changes) to your favored version of the lede from before your block. I would also remind you that 1RR is not an entitlement. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 20:17, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
- ...nor is it an excuse to shove your rivals aside. Hearfourmewesique (talk) 20:22, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
- @EdJohnston: I think an administrator should give Hearfourmewesique notice of the ARBPIA sanctions regardless of the outcome of this report. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 22:29, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
Result concerning Hearfourmewesique
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
- This is a classic 1RR violation. By the definition of a revert given in WP:Edit warring, Hearfourmewesique's first edit of the day is also a revert. They have just returned from a one-week block for warring on the same article. In view of this, I suggest a two-week block and a formal notice of the discretionary sanctions. Prior to the October 3 block, editors explained the 1RR rule to Hearfour very clearly on their talk page and allowed a chance for them to revert, but they did not seem to be listening. After the block expired, Hearfour described the matter as a 1RR technicality. Now Hearfour is back again on the same technicality. EdJohnston (talk) 21:44, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
- Concur. T. Canens (talk) 06:59, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
Arbitration enforcement action appeal by STSC
Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found in this 2010 ArbCom motion. According to that motion, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.
To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).
- Appealing user
- STSC (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – STSC (talk) 20:28, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
- Sanction being appealed
- Topic ban from Senkaku Islands, logged at
Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Senkaku_Islands#Log_of_blocks.2C_bans.2C_and_restrictions; discussed at
User_talk:Future_Perfect_at_Sunrise#Discretionary_sanctions:_topic_ban
- Administrator imposing the sanction
- Future Perfect at Sunrise (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
- Notification of that administrator
- [69]
Statement by STSC
The administrator failed to satisfy the "Warning" provision of the discretionary sanctions process because prior to the sanction being imposed, I had not been given any direct and specific warning personally on my user talk page. I want the sanction to be lifted.
Further statement by STSC
I believe the spirit of the "Warning" provision is to protect the editors from any knee-jerk action or abuse of power by an admin. The Committee procedures are clearly defined, and any attempt to game the procedures is unacceptable.
Response to John Vandenberg
That general statement in NCGN page is hardly the "due warning" as required by the Committee. If the "Warning " provision in the Committee procedures can be disregarded in such a manner then what is the point in including it specifically in the procedures:
2. Discretionary sanctions may be imposed by any uninvolved administrator after giving due warning;
4. Warnings should be clear and unambiguous, link to the decision authorising the sanctions, identify misconduct and advise how the editor may mend their ways;
Response to T. Canens and Cailil
I don't think your reasoning is valid because it appears that it may be gaming the Committee procedures. Please see my response to John Vandenberg.
Statement by Future Perfect at Sunrise
My comments are here: [70]. Fut.Perf. ☼ 06:46, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
Statement by arbitrator John Vandenberg
The warning at [71] is sufficient, in my opinion. It is good practise to notify users on their talk page, however everyone involved should have seen the notification on the talk page because that is where they were edit warring. 23:05, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
Statement by (involved editor 2)
Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by STSC
Result of the appeal by STSC
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- The case clerk's notification of the decision in the case, coupled with the finding of misconduct in that decision, provides ample warning. Decline. T. Canens (talk) 21:16, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
- That STSC was not only a party to the RfAr but also sanctioned by its finding (and notified of this and the decision of the ArbCom by the Clerk's note) means STSC was aware of the RFAR ruling, ie the discretionary sanctions. FPaS's note on October 7th at the WP:NCGN talk page also clearly made parties aware that they were on thin ice there (as noted by John Vandenberg above). Thus I have to concur with T. Canens and would decline this appeal--Cailil talk 23:22, 11 October 2011 (UTC)