Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Wales

Copyright of Welsh Dragon

I have uploaded an image of a Welsh dragon, and I would be interested if the emblem is copyrightable, community input (especially from this project) would be most welcome at Wikipedia:Possibly_unfree_files/2010_July_4#File:Wales_Ireland_1950.png Fasach Nua (talk) 13:20, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Scope of Template:Economy and Industry of Cardiff

Comments from editors would be welcome in the discussion here. Thanks,--Pondle (talk) 17:30, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

forts around Milford haven

there are two more forts to add to your list 
 1 Dale Fort
 2 Defenable barracks  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.216.59.149 (talk) 04:54, 8 July 2010 (UTC) 

Locator maps for Welsh placename articles

There is a discussion ongoing about which Locator map is used on Welsh placename articles at Template talk:Infobox UK place. This has implications for every article using the UK place template (which is nearly all placename articles). Please add your comments and indicate a preference between the options. Skinsmoke (talk) 15:52, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Gwynedd/VANNES is also a city in Breizh/Bretagne/Brittany. It is a beautiful city. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.141.59.241 (talk) 13:22, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

AFD notice: Sport in Anglesey

At Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sport in Anglesey. East of Borschov 12:00, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

AFD notice: Evan Vaughan Anwyl

At Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Evan Vaughan Anwyl. ~Geaugagrrl ^talk 10:39, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Wales

For those who may have missed it, I have placed the article for Wales onto the list for GA status. This will take a while to be picked up, but I hope a review will focus minds and help this project get the most important article up to a GA article. Thanks to all those who have posted positive messages to this action. FruitMonkey (talk) 17:03, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Barnstar - Part II

		The Wales Barnstar
		Your message here. FruitMonkey (talk) 20:33, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Can we go with this award? Or are there any objections? FruitMonkey (talk) 20:33, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Wales articles have been selected for the Wikipedia 0.8 release

Version 0.8 is a collection of Wikipedia articles selected by the Wikipedia 1.0 team for offline release on USB key, DVD and mobile phone. Articles were selected based on their assessed importance and quality, then article versions (revisionIDs) were chosen for trustworthiness (freedom from vandalism) using an adaptation of the WikiTrust algorithm.

We would like to ask you to review the Wales articles and revisionIDs we have chosen. Selected articles are marked with a diamond symbol (♦) to the right of each article, and this symbol links to the selected version of each article. If you believe we have included or excluded articles inappropriately, please contact us at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.8 with the details. You may wish to look at your WikiProject's articles with cleanup tags and try to improve any that need work; if you do, please give us the new revisionID at Wikipedia talk:Version 0.8. We would like to complete this consultation period by midnight UTC on Monday, October 11th.

We have greatly streamlined the process since the Version 0.7 release, so we aim to have the collection ready for distribution by the end of October, 2010. As a result, we are planning to distribute the collection much more widely, while continuing to work with groups such as One Laptop per Child and Wikipedia for Schools to extend the reach of Wikipedia worldwide. Please help us, with your WikiProject's feedback!

For the Wikipedia 1.0 editorial team, SelectionBot 23:49, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Featured Portal nomination

The Law of England and Wales portal has been nominated for featured status at Wikipedia:Featured portal candidates/Portal:Law of England and Wales, and I am notifying related WikiProjects as requested in the nomination instructions. All comments for and against its promotion are welcome, ideally with reference to the featured portal criteria. If anyone knows of any decent law-related Welsh articles that could be included, I'd be delighted to hear about them. Bencherlite^Talk 11:39, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Bump, no comments from anyone in two weeks. Anyone interested? Thanks, Bencherlite^Talk 15:47, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Politics

I dont fully understand Wikipedia but think this article National Assembly for Wales election 2011 is a very important article considering the elction was next May, and really with so many more candidates being selected the info boxes shpu;d be filled in quite a bit more. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.108.160.174 (talk) 02:25, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Aberdaron

Aberdaron was promoted to good article on 7 November 2010. Thanks to everyone who helped it through the assessment process! Skinsmoke (talk) 08:28, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Concern about Pembrokeshire articles

I'm concerned about the quality of the Pembrokeshire articles, many of them have questionable sources and some of them have entire sections completely without sources. Are there any other Pembrokeshire based/knowledgeable users who would be willing to increase the quality of these pages? PrettyxVacant (talk) 21:07, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Hedd Wyn edit war

There seems to be a bit of an edit war going on at Hedd Wyn (film) over whether it should be called a Welsh or a British film. It's getting rather heated and childish (see, for example, here and here). I think it would be useful to try to establish consensus (one way or the other) in an adult fashion, for which it would probably be helpful to have more editors contributing to the debate. Thanks. garik (talk) 11:11, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

The neutral position, it seems to me, would be for the article text to recognise that, in common with many other things, it is both Welsh and British - as well as stating very clearly that it is a Welsh language film. Flags in infoboxes are generally deprecated, and I think that should be removed. That leaves the question of whether the "country" in the infobox should be stated as the UK or Wales, which in my view is a matter where there should be consistency across WP and across different projects. I'm not aware that there is a consistent line everywhere. One of the participants in the "edit war" has already been warned for incivility and has been blocked for similar offences in the past. Apart from all that, I'm planning to stay out of the discussion. Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:27, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

That the references for it to be noted as a Welsh film are reliable has been confirmed by the Reliable sources/Noticeboard (see here) who also provided futher references that Wales is a country. There is a Welsh film industry, distinct from the 'British' flim industry. Just as there is Welsh literature and Welsh music. I see no reason to alter the article for some supposed neutrality that will inevitably give a British POV, by airbrushing Wales out of Wikipedia. Daicaregos (talk) 12:36, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

The fact that Wales is part of the UK and therefore covered by the term "British" is, in my view, an undeniable statement of reality, and the "neutral position" is to acknowledge that. Ghmyrtle (talk) 12:43, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

It is no more relevant to note that Hedd Wyn is a British film than a European film. It is a Welsh film, as supported by reliable sources. Distinct Welsh film and cinema is acknowledged by the BBC, for example. 'British' is irrelavent in this context. Daicaregos (talk) 13:10, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Where was the film made? GoodDay (talk) 13:55, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

It was made in Wales, GoodDay. With a Welsh writer, director, cast and crew, by a Welsh company and with Welsh funding. But, as it was good/successful, it must be British. plus ça change. Daicaregos (talk) 15:11, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

It was funded by S4C wasn't it? Which is itself funded by the U.K. government, no? Ivor Stoughton (talk) 15:04, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

And Welsh people pay their taxes straight to the Exchequer. What's your point? Daicaregos (talk) 16:12, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

The point being that the funding of the film was not as solely and unambiguously Welsh as you suggest. It was funded by S4C which is directly funded by the U.K government, to which Welsh people pay taxes, certainly, but so do English, Scots and Irish. I'd go with the NY Times on this one: Hedd Wyn is a "Welsh language film produced in the United Kingdom". Ivor Stoughton (talk) 19:43, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Other than illustrating the John Donne concept that "no man is an island", Irvine, do you actuaally have a point? All I get so far is you are trying to say that from wherever the money originates somehow makes some special difference for noting a film's country. Are Hollywood films now Colombian? Daicaregos (talk) 20:46, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

It does tend to be the case that a film's country (or countries) of origin is (are) determined by where the production funds come from. Hence the Harry Potter films are American, despite all the British talent involved. The correct analogy here seems to me to be with films produced in Quebec, in French. They are classified as Canadian, on Wikipedia and elsewhere. Ivor Stoughton (talk) 20:55, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Not that I necessarily agree with your thesis Irvine, but as S4C is a Welsh company, the funding for the film is Welsh, Q.E.D. Daicaregos (talk) 21:11, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Do you disagree that the analogy to Quebec is useful to us here? Ivor Stoughton (talk) 21:15, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

No, Wales is a country, S4C is a Welsh television channel. If Harry Potter was funded by a British production company then it would be British even if that company raised funding from other countries. --Snowded ^TALK 21:23, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

The Harry Potter series was funded by Warner Bros, and the country of origin is given as "USA" in every film guide I can presently lay my hands on. The country of origin for Hedd Wyn is those sames guides? "U.K.". Ivor Stoughton (talk) 21:29, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Agree on Harry Potter - Warner Brothers is American. S4C is Welsh. As I thought I had made clear if Warner Brothers had funding from say Japan, it would not make Harry Potter a Japanese film --Snowded ^TALK 21:34, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Except the relationship between the United States and Japan is not analogous to that between Wales and the U.K., is it? The Quebec/Canada analogy is much more like it. Incidentally, I have to wonder how Hedd Wyn is classifed by the Library of Congress? Ivor Stoughton (talk) 21:40, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

GoodDay, it is a Welsh film. Leave it at that.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 13:08, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

See my talkpage for my views. GoodDay (talk) 16:27, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Moelfre (hill)

The article Moelfre (hill) has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

unreferenced article with no mention of notability, fails WP:N

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Jeepday (talk) 22:47, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau is a Featured Sound

This, the earliest known recording in Welsh, has been promoted as a Featured Sound because of its historical importance. Does anybody have any ideas for further nominations? Bencherlite^Talk 07:50, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Proposed change to wording at Tom Pryce

A proposal has been made at Talk:Tom Pryce#A Welsh racing driver to change the wording in the lead paragraph regarding Pryce's nationality. It's a proposal specific to that article and not applicable to other articles, not yet at least. Anyone wanting to have their say, please do so. Daicaregos (talk) 20:19, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Does anyone have access to Transactions of the Anglesey Antiquarian Society or Archaeologia_Cambrensis?

I've made a request for a few articles at this location to help with an ongoing attempt to write about every listed church on Anglesey. Can anyone help? Thanks, Bencherlite^Talk 22:32, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Wales good aritcle not mentioned?

Heavy metal band Bullet for My Valentine's page is a good article, but it is not mentioned in the 'Good Article' section. Could someone please change that?Beaverbillins (talk) 02:28, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Done. FruitMonkey (talk) 08:30, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Moylgrove or Moylegrove - Pembrokeshire

I was writing an article for Ceibwr Bay on a stub page, when I discovered the long over due merger discusssion for the articles on the same village in Pembrokeshire, either called Moylgrove or Moylegrove. I suspect that the original spelling in Welsh was without the "e", but the spelling with the "e" now seems far, far more common. Suggestions on which one we should adopt as to where the real article should go, and hence merged to? Rgds, --Trident13 (talk) 03:31, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

A Google Books search gives far more results on Moylgrove (including both contemporary and historic sources) than Moylegrove. If Moylgrove is still used then go with this one.

As far as the "original" spelling goes, in either case it's a mangling of the Welsh moel combined with an English word, so neither is any more authentic in that regard.Svejk74 (talk) 12:38, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

There doesn't seem to be a lot of consistency on this. This page from "Visit Pembrokeshire", developed by the Pembrokeshire County Council, calls it "Moylgrove". One would think the county council would be informed about such things. However, the council's own web page tends to call it "Moylegrove".[1] Additionally, for what it's worth, though, this site evidently put together by local businessmen call it "Moylegrove", and it's "Moylegrove" on Google Maps (even if you type in "Moylgrove"). Just to keep it interesting, some sources use the form "Moyle Grove" as well. I'd say we should just pick whichever one appears to be more common, by however much, and redirect the other to it.--Cúchullain ^t/c 14:07, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Ah, Moylgrove. Went there on hols almost 40 years ago. The Ordnance Survey map of the area doesn't use an "e". --Redrose64 (talk) 14:50, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Llangeler

Re. the bathing rite at Llangeler, Ffynnon Celer: the missing megalith 'llech' appears to be 3km away near to Ffynnon Fair so possibly Capel Mair at Ffynnon Fair [Lwynffynnon] was the original location for the healing ritual?

http://www.megalithic.co.uk/article.php?sid=7456 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Megalith6 (talk • contribs) 23:35, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

St David's Day

As far as I'm aware there are no Welsh articles ready for FA status on 1 March. That said if anyone would like to get multiple Welsh DYKs for 1 March then please try to get them in soon and we'll try to get a special date for this. Thanks FruitMonkey (talk) 00:04, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

If you mean to feature on the main page, how about William Cragh or Tom Pryce? Daicaregos (talk) 08:12, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

I don't think Malleus Fatuorum, the primary author of Cragh, would be anxious to see that on the main page, given the stresses he has had with recent TFAs. There might be just enough time to push through Pryce at WP:TFAR - it scores two points for time since promotion, but would need to find another point from somewhere to displace one of the current five articles nominated there. It won't be author history (as the main author has had a TFA) or "widely covered" (it has 19 interwiki links, 1 short of the 20 needed for a bonus point). If nominated for 5th March, it would gain a date relevance point (anniversary of death) but not for St David's Day (that's too tangential a link for TFA points purposes). If no similar article had appeared in the last three months, that would gain it a point, or if someone wrote a stub on Simple Wikipedia and linked it in the interwikis, that would gain a point. Bencherlite^Talk 08:28, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

That was just scarey. It transpires that there is much to do in a short space of time. As Wales is now a GA, what are the chances of getting the article on the main page in twelve months time? FruitMonkey (talk) 23:27, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Good if we work on it, not so good if we don't;)--Cúchullain ^t/c 13:57, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Huzzah. Is there anyone who knows how to drive this forward, as Bencherlite's points thing is way above my head. I'm happy to help as much as possible, but I have never tried to get an article to FA ststus before. FruitMonkey (talk) 18:11, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

The points thing is described at WP:TFA/R. --Redrose64 (talk) 18:49, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Afonwen

I grew up in the village of Afonwen. It was never known as Afon-wen to the locals but is listed as Afon-wen on WIkipedia. I don't know how to edit the article title. Can someone edit it to Afonwen? --ChemConnector (talk) 04:35, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

OS maps use "Afon-wen", hyphenated. Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:26, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

"Anglesey" or "Isle of Anglesey"?

There's a page name discussion taking place at Talk:Isle of Anglesey at present, which might be of interest. Bencherlite^Talk 08:02, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Principality of Wales

This page (Principality of Wales) is wildly inaccurate and based more on wishful thinking than on actual academically researched historical facts. Worse still other Wikipedias use the English version as a reference, further disseminating what basically amounts to misinformation. I suggest you visit the Welsh version to get an idea of what a thorough, researched, academically accurate and comprehensive article on this subject should look like. Sanddef (talk) 08:01, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

First Minister bio infoboxes

I've deleted Elizabeth II from these infoboxes, as she's not the 'Monarch of Wales'. What's the view here, concerning my deletions? GoodDay (talk) 01:17, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

My view is that you're wrong, but for convenience, please let's everyone concentrate the discussion here.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 01:31, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

GoodDay is wrong, reversing yet another set of edits that he knew would provoke. GoodDay, please get agreement before making mass changes to information boxes, you have been told about this time and time again. --Snowded ^TALK 07:11, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Deputy First Minister for Wales RM

Howdy, we need more imput at that article's RM. GoodDay (talk) 00:40, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

WikiConference UK 2011 16 April 2011: Watershed Bristol

If you missed the Wikibanner, full details of the above at {http://wikiconferenceuk2011.eventbrite.com/} Diolch yn fawr! Jezhotwells (talk) 00:44, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Iwan Huws

This new BLP article may be of interest to this WikiProject.  Chzz  ►  12:21, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Kidwelly and Llanelly Canal

I am intending to submit this article for WP:GAN. However, I need a bit of advice. The article is named using the modern spelling of Llanelli, but an IP editor changed the spelling in the article to use the old spelling of Llanelly, so there is an inconsistancy between the title and the content. I wondered if anyone on this project had thoughts on the best route to resolve this. Bob1960evens (talk) 17:52, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Personally, if the canal was known as the Llanelly Canal, and was still known by that spelling at the time it ceased to be used, then I would go for Llanelly as that is what would be found in reference books.FruitMonkey (talk) 18:25, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

I have renamed the page. Bob1960evens (talk) 19:15, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Portal:Wales and Super Furry Animals

I have been working on Portal:Wales, trying to bring it back to a state worthy of being called a featured portal. I think it's getting close. As part of my efforts, I have been looking for more recognised content that could be showcased by the portal. In particular, I was hoping to unearth more featured pictures of Wales; there seem to be very few indeed (just one?). One thing I did rediscover, however, was a number of good articles on works by Super Furry Animals, comprising one standalone GA and two featured topics with four and five GAs respectively:

• Mwng
• Rings Around the World ("Juxtapozed with U", "(Drawing) Rings Around the World", "It's Not the End of the World?")
• Phantom Power ("Golden Retriever", Slow Life, "Hello Sunshine", Phantom Phorce)

I was wondering whether the members of this project thought that these should be tagged with {{WikiProject Wales}} or not. It's not a field I often edit in, so I am unsure of the precedents. At the very least, I would think that Mwng would be a valid topic, as the best-selling Welsh-language album ever. I welcome your opinions. --Stemonitis (talk) 20:46, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Sorry for the late response. Yes, they should. I'll do that now. Cheers, Daicaregos (talk) 06:58, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. I've added them to Portal:Wales/Features, too. --Stemonitis (talk) 07:51, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

A Call to Arms

The Welsh Wicipedia needs help. We've lost three or four of our Admins (and a Bureaucrat) in the last few months. There are many jobs that non-Welsh speakers can do; one of which is mentioned by me in the Caffi. There are too few of us, and mountains to climb, battles to be fought... Mae eich gwlad a'ch iaith eich heisiau. Llywelyn2000 (talk) 05:36, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Er, which job(s) specifically? I'm most definitely a Saesneg-only speaker, and having briefly looked through the cy:Wicipedia:Y Caffi page, I don't see which might be "jobs that non-Welsh speakers can do; one of which is mentioned by [Llywelyn2000]". My contribs to cy: are, so far, limited to establishing interlanguage links where none previously existed. I'm not sure what else I can do. --Redrose64 (talk) 22:24, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

I agree Redrose, I feel as a non-Welsh speaker that I have nothing to add to the project as there appears to be no information as to where English language speakers can aid the project. FruitMonkey (talk) 23:01, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

Sorry I took so long to get back to you. Here are a few jobs for the boys:

1. Attend the first Welsh language Wikimeet - actually it's a full day Editathon at the Cardiff Central Library, help new users or copy / paste mail merged articles (semi-automated, as we have no bots). We'll provide lunch!
2. Here are few articles with dead links / references which need amending. Solid refs are the backbone of every article. My priority is writing new and editing newly created articles; we need men in shinning armour to do a very laborious task, but is a crucial one!
3. Copy / paste Infoboxes (eg towns, weather) from en to cy.
4. Search for databases of English and Scottish towns (and villages!) which have a few simple fields eg population, percentage of adults out of work, percentage not born in that town.... We can then mail merge this data and try and create a bot to upload.
5. Counties of England. I've uploaded the "Infobox England county" to cy. I've tested it on one County: Swydd Gaerlŷr (Leicestershire). We now need to copy / paste from the rest, which you can find here.

And that's only a start!

Many thanks a diolch yn fawr! Llywelyn2000 (talk) 16:07, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Refs of Y Gododdin

I copy here the message which I left on the talk page of the article:

Hello. I work this article for the french wikipedia, and I have a problem with certain references. The reference 19 and 56 ("Williams") refers to what book quoted in bibliography ? Idem for "Jackson" (refs 26, 50, 51, 57 and 59), and "Williams (1972)" (52, 53, 55). There are several books of these authors in bibliography, and for William, none of the 1972 (unless it is the first edition of that of the 1980?). Thank you, and sorry for my bad english.

Could you help me ? It's a Good Article. Thank you very much. --Harmonia Amanda (talk) 15:20, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

This is an excellent point well raised. I have added the dates to all the cites where only a single book was present, but as Harmonia Amanda states Williams and Jackson can not be assumed due to multiple books. If anyone has just one of the books it will help cut down or solve most of the problems raised. Diolch. FruitMonkey (talk) 17:34, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

Using the 1978 paperback of Jackson's 1969 work, I confirmed that all of the ambiguous Jackson references in the citations were references to the 1969 work, and modified the article accordingly. Regards, Notuncurious (talk) 19:50, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Great work Notuncurious, that just leaves Williams work to pin down. If anyone is off to a decent library soon, could they make a note of the book, it would be much appreciated to ensure this article's GA status with correctly noted cites. FruitMonkey (talk) 22:08, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Thank you very much. --Harmonia Amanda (talk) 09:27, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, can I remember you this problem ? References called "Williams" (19 and 56) doesn't refer to a book f the bibliography... Sorry for my very bad english. --Harmonia Amanda (talk) 18:03, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Tudor House of Penmynydd: much older than Henry Vlll  !!!

Take a look at this], please... and VOTE! Ysgol Dinas Bran (talk) 16:49, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Vote where and for what? Daicaregos (talk) 07:17, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Tudor dynasty#Move?, I think. Ghmyrtle (talk) 10:01, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Yes, there's a vote there on whether the House of Tudor began with Henry Vll or was it much older: in fact the Welsh article on Penmynydd has much more details on the Tudors family which goes back 400 - 500 years before Henry. Thanks, Ghmyrtle: Talk:Tudor dynasty#Move? Llywelyn2000 (talk) 21:31, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Given Ednyfed Fychan was the paternal apical ancestor of the entire Tudor Dynasty of England, Wales, Ireland & even France, that there is no mention made here of his apparent apical ancestors, South Welsh Prince Rhys ap Tewdwr thus King of Briton Howell the Good who codified Welsh Law & WikiProject Wales|class=start|importance=low!? WHY!? Matthew (talk) 15:31, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Cwmafan / Cwmavon

I've hit a problem with a bit of disambiguation. It appears there are two Cwmavons. One is Cwmavon, Torfaen, while the other is the village of Cwmafan in Neath Port Talbot. In recent encyclopedias, Cwmafan NPT is called Cwmavon. Should the article be moved to its English name or does the town now call itself Cwmafan? It's a bit of a mess as the electoral ward that encompasses it is Bryn and Cwmavon. Though streetmap calls in Cwmafon. Advice please. FruitMonkey (talk) 13:09, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

NPT council seem to use both versions. The Library is called Cwmafan. Residents' walking and action groups call themselves Cwmafan (same ref). The community centre is Cwmavon, as is the ward as you say. The Centre and schools are Cwmafan. The Welsh Academi Encyclopaedia has it as Cwmavon, but doesn't have an entry for Cwmavon, Torfaen. I would leave it as Cwmafan. Daicaregos (talk) 18:09, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Englynion y Clywaid

A Welsh speaker is need to translate from Welsh wikipedia.♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:31, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Welsh Rarebit (radio programme)

Just dropping a note here (and I'll drop a copy on the talk page at WP:BBC) on the off-chance someone might have sources for the Welsh Rarebit (radio programme) article. I came across it at Special:Newpages and while I had heard of it, I haven;t been able to find more than few sources for the article (particularly for dates), which the article could do with. I am fairly confident that it did start in 1938 on the Welsh Regional Programme and a figure of 12 million listeners given in a source is a reasonable figure. (Actually that would make it one of the most popular Welsh made BBC programmes ever; 12 million is about 1600-1800 milliWhos by my calculation). One other thing that springs tto mind is that the producer from 1941, Mai Davies, along with one of the performers, wrote We`ll Keep a Welcome (in the Hillside) which was played at the end of the programme (and of course became a bit of a standard); anyway, if anyone has any sources that couldn't be found online, the article needs them. FlowerpotmaN·(t)

What makes a good local article?

I'm writing a blog post about what makes a good local article (or set of articles) on Wikipedia - in other words articles about a specific place, such as a town or village, and its features, people, etc.

What do you think we currently do well, or badly, in that regard. What do you, or would you, like to see, in such articles? What are the best examples?

Please feel free to prior discussion, if you know of any. Cheers, Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 10:29, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Do you mean Wales, Britain or places world wide. Also is good just good or GA status? FruitMonkey (talk) 12:21, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Any or all of those. Thanks. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 16:49, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

New article: Llanelli railway strike

Following an excellent BBC article published today, I have started the Llanelli railway strike article. Please improve if you can, especially additional quality / academic refs. Ta. (By the way, I have redirected "the great unrest" to this article, but now doubt the wisdom of this, as the strike seems to be only a part of wider unrest. Maybe another, wider, article is needed?)--Mais oui! (talk) 12:18, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Football task force

Are there any members of WP:WALES who would be interested in helping out with a new task force focused on Welsh football? The scope of the task force would include all Welsh players either born in Wales or to Welsh parents, as well as anyone who has played for a Welsh national team (any age group or women's football), or for a club in Wales and/or in the Welsh league system (so as to include Cardiff, Swansea, Wrexham, Newport, Merthyr Tydfil, Colwyn Bay and The New Saints players). The clubs themselves would also be covered, as would the national teams and all the related football grounds. Finally, Welsh football competitions would also come under the task force's umbrella. The structure of the task force would be based on the successful task force model employed by WP:FOOTY, which would be the primary parent project for the task force. If I can get five people on board for this, I will create all the necessary pages and categories, and I will begin tagging article talk pages with assessment tags. I hope this will spark some interest in the project. Looking forward to hearing from you all. – PeeJay 14:11, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Anyone? – PeeJay 15:58, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Seriously, is everyone in here so apathetic towards football? Or is WP:WALES merely going the way of the dinosaur? – PeeJay 10:57, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

I enjoy football and I do support Wales, but it's not really what I do much of on Wikipedia. Sorry :o) — OwenBlacker (Talk) 22:10, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Maybe those who are potentially interested don't watch this page? Might be worth looking at the edit history of related articles and leaving a message on editors user talk page. I'd love the content of what you're proposing to be on Wikipedia (need a back up of stats pages from the excellent welsh-premier.com), but it's not my main priority, sorry.--Rhyswynne (talk) 15:32, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

I've just got too much on my plate. I actually saw the Who's Who of Welsh Football Internationals (going back to year dot) in a Book Shop in Cardiff and had to force myself to keep my money in my wallet. With the work that I do on Welsh places, Welsh film, Welsh rugby and Welsh boxing, I just couldn't take on another stream. Sorry mate. FruitMonkey (talk) 18:24, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Fair enough, guys. Thanks for the replies. Thanks to the support from editors at WP:FOOTY, I have set up the task force anyway at Wikipedia:WikiProject Football/Wales task force, so if any of you ever find the time to edit Welsh football articles, feel free to add your names to the list of participants. After all, it doesn't matter how much work you do on those articles, only that you lend your support. Cheers. – PeeJay 18:41, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

Gwbert

When Gwbert was last reviewed, it was a stub comprising just two sentences. I wonder if someone would like to re-evaluate it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hogyn Lleol (talk • contribs)

Reviewed. A good effort. Article raised from stub to C class. FruitMonkey (talk) 17:35, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Hello, there may be more traditional welsh bands to go on List of Welsh bands article. Traditional music is actually a bit more widespread :). there are many folk/traditional festivals all across Wales during the summer. Celtic music in the United States and Celtic music in Canada seem to think that Welsh music is highly influential to them(welsh, irish and scottish), yet music of Wales page is deemed , low importance. I guess the Canadians and Americans are talking about traditional Welsh (Celtic) music (folk) rather than choir music (folk) which is far more widespread (traditional I mean) ok thanks. http://www.gowerrockfestival.co.uk/home.htm - play http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POwIfgjf4lU - play

Ceredwen - Welsh band — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.111.17.114 (talk) 17:52, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Leah27011987 (talk • contribs) 23:28, 6 September 2011 (UTC) 

Proposal being made on WT:IMOS

Might be of interest this proposal Mo ainm~Talk 15:43, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

CFR nomination: Category:Welsh Assembly Government

Please see:

• Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2011_September_7#Category:Welsh_Assembly_Government

--Mais oui! (talk) 06:02, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

Post-medieval use of the term "Principality of Wales"

The article Principality of Wales currently has a hatnote stating: "This article is about the historical Principality (1216–1542). For the modern country, see Wales." I have suggested that, because the article mentions post-1542 usages of the term (which occurred in official legislation as well as in general parlance), the hatnote should be amended to include, at the end of the first sentence, words such as: "and later use of the term." Another editor disagrees. My view is that, whether post-medieval usage of the term is seen as an "error" or not, WP should reflect and provide information on the actual usage of the term "Principality of Wales", and that the hatnote should reflect that. Views are welcome at Talk:Principality of Wales#Article content and hatnote. Ghmyrtle (talk) 17:56, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Rate this page

I was fairly disappointed with the ratings left on the Wales article, until I saw the ratings the Scotland (also a GA article) page got. Does anyone now if reviewers leave information as to areas they are unhappy with which we can access to improve articles? FruitMonkey (talk) 16:56, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

CFD notification: Category:Religious history of Wales

Please see the proposed deletion discussion regarding:

• Category:Religious history of Wales

Ta, --Mais oui! (talk) 11:17, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Geocoding backlog for articles about things and places in Wales

Hello! I just thought you might want to know that there are currently over 200 articles in Category:Wales articles missing geocoordinate data and its subcategories. Any help you can give to add coordinates to these locations would be greatly appreciated. WP:COORD has more information on how to add geographic location data to articles. Thanks! -- The Anome (talk) 19:35, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

There are more welsh folk singers that don't sound like as if they are singing opera and at least three hundred years old. that play celtic music, just had a look at the extensive list of welsh folk singers, ah hem 4. on the article "welsh singers", thanks. Example- fernhill (welsh folk band) playing celtic music and instruments. the category completely LACKS a single ACTUAL folk singer AS in someone who doesn't sing opera and plays celtic, welsh folk music. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.103.160.253 (talk) 18:34, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Back to Geotagging: yes you have a few (200) in English. There are more than 2,000 on Wiki cy, and what's more, they haven't been nominated as such. Please help. Llywelyn2000 (talk) 08:13, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

MonmouthpediA

Dear All

I started MonmouthpediA, a project to create Wikipedia articles on interesting and notable places, people, artefacts, a flora and fauna guide etc in Monmouth and to display QR code using QRpedia where appropriate to deliver the articles to users, in their preferred language including Welsh. Articles will have geotagging to allow a virtual tour of the town using the Wikipedia layer on Google Streetview, Google Maps and will be available in augmented reality software including Layar. MonmouthpediA may not use standard black and white QR codes to differentiate between MonmouthpediA codes and other schemes and individual's codes. It will be the first QRpedia project cover a whole town including outside.

If you are interested in it, head over to WP:GLAM/MonmouthpediA

Many thanks

John Mrjohncummings (talk) 19:25, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Anglesey church photographs - help wanted!

I'm steadily working through the churches on Anglesey that have listed building status, and wondered whether there was anyone reading this who could help with photos. Nearly all the listed churches are represented at commons (commons:Category:Churches in Anglesey) but there are three that are missing: St Trygarn's Church, Llandrygarn; St Peter's Church, Llanbedrgoch; and St Morhaiarn's Church, Gwalchmai. Does anyone have photos of these, or does anyone live close enough to get some? I've checked Geograph, but they aren't on there.

Also, if you have any decent photos of Anglesey churches, particularly interior shots, I'd be delighted to hear about them. Thanks, Bencherlite^Talk 12:54, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Welsh actors actresses

Complete wiki newbie here so do be gentle, posting here because I linked to it from the Welsh Actors page. It occured to me as I looked for a Welsh Actor on the Wiki Welsh Actors page that I was searching for an ACTOR not an ACTRESS! So why are there females in the Welsh actors wiki page? Also Why is the parent directory "Welsh actors" got 95 entries and its Subcategories such as Welsh Film Actors has 132 entries & subcategory Welsh TV actors has 182 entries??? Surely the parent directory should include all the names from all the subcategories....! Bugloss (talk) 16:15, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia doesn't go for the male/female job title, so actors are both male and female, there is also no category for poetess, giantess, etc. The subcategories are also members of its parent category. Therefore if you look for Category:Welsh people, there are very few in there as they should be categorised in the cleaner subdirectories. Hope that helps. FruitMonkey (talk) 16:23, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

New Articles list

I notice some of the articles listed as 'new' on the Project page are over 2 years old. Should the list be reviewed to remove articles from the list that are more than a certain age? ...say 12 months?? Sionk (talk) 16:17, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
Ah, I see Fruitmonkey removed several articles in January 2011 that were more than 12 months old. I'll remove the few more that have reached their birthday. Sionk (talk) 16:24, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
Me again! I removed the articles from the list that were more than 18 months old, otherwise the list would have become very short! People somehow need to be reminded to add their new creations to the list, there must be dozens of interesting additions out there somewhere...? Sionk (talk) 16:35, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

Government of Wales

A strange little article. Should it just be deleted, or is there scope to improve it? Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:08, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

At the moment it seems to duplicate Welsh Government. I'm not an expert in semantics, but I would expect 'Government of Wales' to describe how Wales has been governed over many centuries (not restricted to post 1998). Sionk (talk) 15:31, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

It seems to me it would be best as a disambiguation page, with content removed. The articles for England, Scotland and NI are equally odd. I'll raise the question at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Politics of the United Kingdom. Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:38, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Green Coast Award

You will all have heard of Blue Flag beach awards, which has a page on Wikipedia. Less well known is the Green Coast Award, also administered in Wales, by Keep Wales Tidy. It has a less stringent set of criteria, designed to suit rural beaches with minimal infrastructure & resources, with an emphasis on environment and community. Wikipedia doesn't have a page, so I created it. But it was immediately put up for speedy deletion, on the grounds of "Unambiguous advertising or promotion". Although I put a case for it, arguing that I simply wanted to explain what it was, and it's basic criteria - no promotion was involved, it was immediately deleted by this single user. End of. Don't know why I bother .... Hogyn Lleol ★ ^(chat) 20:09, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

One way forward would be to create an article on Keep Wales Tidy, referring to the Green Coast (and other} schemes, and drawing on independent sources such as this, this, this and this. There is no good reason why an article on the organisation itself should be deleted. After doing that, you could make a case to User:Fastily that the deleted article should be copied over to your sandbox, so you can work on it and add further references. I should monitor WP:AFD, but I never do, I'm afraid. Ghmyrtle (talk) 20:24, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for that, Ghmyrtle. You've obviously done a bit of homework on those sources. Might just do that - when I feel a bit more positive about things .... Season's Greetings / Dymuniadau'r tymor Hogyn Lleol ★ ^(chat) 22:20, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

For info, I have now created Keep Wales Tidy which, amongst its other work, outlines the awards. I may or may not expand the two lesser awards at some point, but for the moment they redirect to this main page Hogyn Lleol ★ ^(chat) 11:31, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia on Wales Today and Radio Wales tomorrow

Just to let you know me and Victuallers will be on Radio Wales at 7.50am tomorrow talking about Wikipedia and I'll be on Wales Today (not sure what time) talking about Monmouthpedia.

--Mrjohncummings (talk) 19:12, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

"Newport, Wales" is problematic is it?

I'd thought I'd seen it all. I was wrong. Mais oui! (talk) 15:52, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Newport, Gwent is correct. Johnbod (talk) 16:02, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Are you sure? I thought Gwent was abolished? Anyhoo, duly adjusted. Mais oui! (talk) 16:40, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Gwent ceased to exist as an everyday county in 1996. What was "Newport, Gwent" became "Newport, Newport". The key matter is that it be distinguished from Newport, Pembrokeshire, which is also potentially "Newport, Wales" (although that's not a very likely way to refer to it). Quite what motivated the edit in question, I don't know; even if "Newport, Wales" is ambiguous, it's not incorrect. --Stemonitis (talk) 16:43, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Here in Conwy County we suffer from similar problems. The Post Office, for instance, and databases, prefer still to use Gwynedd and Clwyd rather than Conwy, as it causes (they say) confusion with Conwy town. I thought postcodes sorted all that! Let's just be grateful we don't live here, in Wales, England! Hogyn Lleol ★ ^(chat) 17:21, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Absolutely DO NOT use "Newport, Gwent". If disambiguation is needed "Newport, south Wales" is preferred. Owain (talk) 12:28, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

I disagree. "Newport, Gwent" may be outmoded, but it is at least unambiguous. "Newport, south Wales" could refer to Newport, Pembrokeshire. --Stemonitis (talk) 12:43, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

It is against the manual of style and also against the policy to use common names. Gwent existed as an entity for 22 years between 1974 and 1996. I would hardly call that a good choice for disambiguation. Owain (talk) 12:47, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

It's not perfect, but it is unambiguous. "Newport, Gwent", "Newport, Monmouthshire" and "Newport, Newport" are unambiguous, while "Newport, Wales" and "Newport, South Wales" are not. If your intention is to disambiguate, you have to choose from the former group. The timings of local government reform don't affect the ambiguity of a phrase, and nor does WP:MOS or WP:NC; those are separate issues. --Stemonitis (talk) 12:55, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

@Stemonitis: Geographically, some non-locals may consider that Newport, Pembrokeshire is in "South Wales", but in reality it is never referred to in that way; its wider area is either Pembrokeshire or West Wales. Ghmyrtle (talk) 13:05, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

I would agree with that - Newport, Monmouthshire is South Wales, whereas Newport, Pembrokeshire is West Wales. If one had to draw a line I would say Monmouthshire and Glamorgan are South Wales, whereas Carmarthenshire and Pembrokeshire are West Wales. Owain (talk) 13:12, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Ghmyrtle, I am aware of the tradition, but many won't be, and the borders are incredibly vague. It is perfectly possible to divide Wales into North Wales and South Wales only, or into North, Mid and South Wales; in those cases, Pembrokeshire is still very much South Wales. "Newport, South Wales" could refer to Newport, Pembs., even if it normally wouldn't be (nor would the larger Newport). If the purpose is disambiguation (and I take the point that there are other factors involved), it makes sense to use an entirely unambiguous phrase. The fact that you can define borders to make a phrase less ambiguous doesn't help if that definition is not apparent. See West Wales; it is poorly defined, and can include Swansea (Glamorgan) and doesn't necessarily include Ceredigion. When choosing disambiguating terms, it is only sensible to include well-defined terms, such as modern counties. --Stemonitis (talk) 13:32, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Frankly on an article about the Newport City Council-owned Newport Transport no disambiguation was needed. Adding "Wales" to the "Headquarters" of the infobox added and disambiguated nothing. The ultimate disambiguator in this case would be the postcode of the headquarters which I will now change it to. Owain (talk) 13:01, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation is still needed in such cases, because of 'bots etc. This is admittedly a general point, but for those of us working on SemWeb projects like DBpedia, it matters.

If a link doesn't need disambig, then I'd say that it doesn't need to be a link - just use the text.

As to page naming, then I would favour Newport, Monmouthshire. South Wales is ambiguous, Monmouthshire has much longer history than Gwent and no-one ever really understood Gwent, Blaenau Gwent and Torfaen. Andy Dingley (talk) 13:18, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

I agree fully with that and would go even further by saying that people still don't understand them! :) Owain (talk) 13:23, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

The article is Newport; no disambiguator is needed there, as Wales' third city is the primary meaning of "Newport". --Stemonitis (talk) 13:32, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Agreed, we're not talking about the naming of the article here, but use in other articles' prose. Owain (talk) 13:43, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Similarly with Cardiff, other Cardiff's are reached via a diambiguation page. I've added the wording "the city of" to the Newport Transport article. All other British Newport's are small communities, so the distinction should be clear. Sionk (talk) 13:47, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Monmouth

I've been working on the article on the town, Monmouth, linked in with the Monmouthpedia project mentioned above, and assuming that the article will get more than usual page views in coming weeks. I'm aware there's a lot of work yet to be done - it lacks a Geography section, there's more to be done on churches, and on references generally - but if anyone here would like to review it, contribute, add comments, etc., that would be much appreciated. Ghmyrtle (talk) 13:07, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2012_January_10#Category:Welsh_military_personnel

FYI Johnbod (talk) 21:17, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

WikiWomen's History Month

Hi everyone. March is Women's History Month and I'm hoping a few folks here at WP:Wales will have interest in putting on events (on and off wiki) related to women's roles in Wales' history, society and culture. We've created an event page on English Wikipedia (please translate!) and I hope you'll find the inspiration to participate. These events can take place off wiki, like edit-a-thons, or on wiki, such as themes and translations. Please visit the page here: WikiWomen's History Month. Thanks for your consideration and I look forward to seeing events take place! SarahStierch (talk) 22:04, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Also, perhaps it would be good if someone could link in to Wikipedia:GLAM/MonmouthpediA by writing an article on Monmouth Women's Festival - some info here. Ghmyrtle (talk) 22:20, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Pages that may need to be included in this project

I lived in Rhos-on-Sea for a little over a year, then in Glan Conwy for several months after that before returning to the U.S. It was a great experience, I love the area, the people and would kill to have the chance to move back and live out the rest of my life. Thus, I have a strong interest in articles which relate to that area and to Wales in general.

While checking something, I landed at List of post towns in the United Kingdom where I saw several communities in the LL postal district were abscent. I didn't see this project's template listed on its talk page. Since Wales is part of the UK and the article includes what is supposed to be a complete list of Welsh post towns, shouldn't this page be brought into the fold as mid-impotance? This caused me to look at other things and I noticed there was no project template on the LL postcode area, Liverpool Bay talk pages either. In fact, I've found 5 so far with no project template in just a very little bit of looking. Is there a reason the template is not included or has it just not been gotten to yet? While I work on editing some articles, can I add the project template to pages that should be covered under this project's scope as I happen across them? Ken Tholke (talk) 12:56, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Nevermind, I answered my own question on the project page. Passed right by it the first two times. Ken Tholke (talk) 13:01, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Welsh Development Agency Article

The Welsh Development agency article is listed as high importance but a stub in your project. I have made some reasonably substantial edits to the page and would welcome a review of the stub status. Many thanks. Sirfurboy (talk) 11:28, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

St David and St David's Day

• Firstly, do these articles fall into this Project?
• Secondly, do we require both?
• Proposal to merge them together

• To my mind, it is thoroughly confusing having both. Each duplicates the other in many areas.

If the consensus is to support the merging, I should like to put my name forward to carry it out.

Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 12:53, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Personally I think both should stay. All the major saints have their own page and a page for their celebration day. The St David's article is not a problem, it hardly mentions 1st March as a celebration; I'm assuming you feel that there is too much mention of St David on the St David's Day article. In that case trim it down where you see fit. If you want to see two articles that are shockingly inter-twined, you should look at the Flag of Wales and the Welsh Dragon, that needs a merge IMO. FruitMonkey (talk) 18:33, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

• Fair comment. I'll look at both. Thanks, Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 18:45, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

N Against merging. I'd be tempted to keep them as they are. Hogyn Lleol ★ ^(chat) 07:49, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

• Okay, That's For: 1–Against: 2 Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 11:55, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Please bear in mind that any proposals to merge pages should go through the proper processes as set out here. Ghmyrtle (talk) 12:07, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for your advice, Ghmyrtle. I suppose my intention is to just test the temperature of feeling towards the idea. What is your inclination? Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 12:18, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

I would certainly oppose merging St David and St David's Day, but there may be a case for merging Flag of Wales and Welsh Dragon. Ghmyrtle (talk) 12:41, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Ty Gwyn

Can someone from Monmouthshire, or even Wales, take a look at Ty Gwyn, a disambiguation page which may need some cleanup or improvement.--DThomsen8 (talk) 17:40, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

 Done Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 19:11, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Wales' first Wikimeet

Hello all
There is a Wikimeet in Monmouth this Saturday from 12-5pm, everyone welcome, you can find more information here (As far as I know it's the first one in Wales).

Many thanks
Mrjohncummings (talk) 22:33, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

Gerald of Wales

Could someone who knows about him glance at recent edits to this page? My impression is that User:MarcusLeDain wants to adjust Gerald's biography, and especially his family history, beyond the evidence ... but I could be wrong! The footnote citation supposed to support the name "Le Gros" doesn't seem to me to be relevant. Andrew Dalby 11:32, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Russell Deacon

I've nominated the Russell Deacon article for deletion. This was recently assessed as 'mid importance' for the Wales Project, though I'm not sure on what basis. Sionk (talk) 08:00, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

List of Scheduled Monuments

Are there any lists of Welsh Scheduled Monuments? I now have an up to date spreadsheet from Cadw, and could fairly rapidly turn that into lists - perhaps both by Unitary Authority and by monument type. (Castles and Hillforts are the relevant ones I have found so far). One of the challenges will be to match Cadw's name for each site with existing site articles. I am hoping to add coord data, to link to GeoGroup maps. RobinLeicester (talk) 17:51, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

Geographical division dispute

I feel it is a good idea to have a sensible discussion regarding geographical divisions on many Welsh articles, such as List of bridges in Wales, List of golf courses in the United Kingdom, List of gardens in Wales, List of monastic houses in Wales and List of lighthouses in Wales. Although List of castles in Wales and List of places in Wales is logical. Many of these articles list Historic counties (that do not exist), preserved counties and unitary authorities. I feel that we need uniformity. SethWhales ^talk 19:40, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

I would be very pleased to see guidance. The Cadw Monument spreadsheet includes 'Historic County' and 'Unitary Authority' for each site - but their historic counties are Flintshire, Denbighshire, etc rather than the more recent big counties. Can the UAs safely be used, or will another re-organising moment sweep them away? I am content for someone else to call that judgement - but would ask that whatever system is selected, there is an easy way to find which area a particular community (and its settlements) is in. RobinLeicester (talk) 22:17, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

That's where the problem arises. For locating geographical things, Dyfed and Powys (preserved counties?) are so vast they don't really help identify a location. The new administrative authorities work okay for Dyfed (Pembrokeshire, Carmarthenshire and Cardiganshire/Ceridigion) but for the South Wales area become geographically quite small - I've no idea of the boundaries of Torfaen, for example! In my view, the old pre-1974 counties work well, but is there some way of looking on a map to see where their boundaries lies? I agree, consistency would be good, but Welsh administrative/political boundaries seem to have an identity crisis, argh! Sionk (talk) 23:44, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

People may have seen this page already, but in case not there's a guideline at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names). If you scroll down, you'll see that the format for Wales is [[placename]], but where disambiguation is required it's [[placename, principal area]]. According to that page, we shouldn't be using the former postal counties (74-96) for disambiguating places.--Pondle (talk) 00:22, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

This discussion has been transferred from Talk:List of bridges in Wales. I agree with Sionk that the principal areas are not a good choice for geographical divisions, and my own preference is for the set of 9 divisions I adopted for the List of bridges in Wales. This division starts from the Preserved Counties, but splits Dyfed into its 3 principal areas (Pembrokeshire, Carmarthenshire and Ceredigion), splits the Preserved County of Gwynedd into Principal Areas Gwynedd and Anglesey, and combines South, Mid and West Glamorgan into, simply, Glamorgan. Powys is still huge, but otherwise this provides a reasonably balanced set of geographical areas, retains a good number of the historic and widely-known divisions, and utilises only current boundaries. Each division comprises one or more Principal Areas, and a key could be provided listing all the Principal Areas within each division. I should very much like this to be recognised as an acceptable and useful set of geographical divisions for Wales. There is no need for division to be made into individual Principal Areas - it is not done in English lists - unless the local authority has a relevant role, as for instance List of schools in Wales. Paravane (talk) 15:30, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

I thought it might help to see that scenario set out in a table. It is clearly a pick and mix from the two systems (Caerphilly was a mix from both Mid-Glam and Gwent so could be included in either). If I have unstood Paravene's scenario correctly, this is the table:-

Preserved County	Suggested Area	Principal Area (Unitary Authority)
Gwynedd	Anglesey	Isle of Anglesey
	Gwynedd	Gwynedd
Clwyd	Clwyd	Conwy
		Denbighshire
		Flintshire
		Wrexham
Powys	Powys	Powys
Dyfed	Ceredigion	Ceredigion
	Pembrokeshire	Pembrokeshire
	Carmarthenshire	Carmarthenshire
West Glamorgan	Glamorgan	Swansea
		Neath Port Talbot
Mid Glamorgan
		Bridgend
		Rhondda Cynon Taf
		Merthyr Tydfil
South Glamorgan		Vale of Glamorgan
		Cardiff
Gwent	Gwent	Caerphilly
		Blaenau Gwent
		Torfaen
		Newport
		Monmouthshire

RobinLeicester (talk) 17:39, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

That seems to be correct. I think that, to be consistent, Caerphilly must be included in Gwent, one of several small adjustments made to the Preserved Counties to align them with the new Principal Areas. Paravane (talk) 18:18, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Not sure how adding Caerphilly into Gwent is consistent, especially when it has never been in Gwent. My view is that if we do have to split Wales up geographically (even if it it is not perfect) and considering no political boundaries (anywhere in the World) ever splits countries up equally (for example the USA, where the you have the West, Midwest, Northeast and South. The Northeast is very small geographically to the rest of the USA (see File:Map of the North Eastern United States.svg), but has the greatest population) I would say it is best to arrange Wales in terms of the Preserved counties. It is not perfect, but at least everyone would know that Caerphilly is related to (Mid) Glamorgan and that the exact boundaries are known (see File:WalesMidGlamorgan.png for example). SethWhales ^talk 18:49, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

The Preserved counties of Wales#Boundary changes section says that Caerphilly borough is now in Gwent. This debate reminds us that future boundary changes are going to happen, and Wikipedia will have to reflect that. For now, looking at an example: Any list that uses {{coord}} hits the buffers at around 500 entries. There are 1,000 Scheduled Monuments in Powys, so even at UA level, that one will have to be subdivided (using Historic counties?). Dyfed has at least as many, so subdividing into UAs would make sense. A pragmatic approach might be to use UAs and Preserved Counties depending on the list size in question. That would just leave a question of whether it was ever appropriate to aggregate Glamorgan as a single entity. RobinLeicester (talk) 00:12, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

I do apologise, as Caerphilly had never been in Monmouthshire (historic county) or Gwent (1974 and 1996) or the Caerphilly County Borough, I assumed that was the case, not knowing that it is in a Preserved county of Gwent on 11 March 2002...Does anyone in Wales know that preserved counties still exist ???? That is another discussion...still some type of agreement I feel is necessary. SethWhales ^talk 06:25, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

What is this "suggested area" in the above table? We cannot go inventing another pick-and-mix geographical system. That is entirely original research. The preserved counties are too large and lack recognition. The principal areas are too small in some cases and too large in others and overlap with town names in many cases. When Cadw lists historic county it is just that -- the Historic counties of Wales. If one wants to see them on a Google map, try this. Owain (talk) 07:35, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

I agree that we should not use original research to devise classifications of our own. When dealing with historic sites I think there is a strong case for using the historic counties as the basis. But, equally, where sites are currently maintained and are visitor attractions, it should be easy to use sortable tables which include current administrative areas as well. Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:54, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

That sounds like a perfect solution! Owain (talk) 08:11, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

I 100% agree that we cannot have original research on Wikipedia. I'm happy generally with the solution, however how would a site be classified as an "historic site" or "currently maintained"...with "visitor attractions". For instance, List of castles in Wales is currently listed with Unitary Authorities, yet they relate to an historic building. List of bridges in Wales deal with historic and modern bridges. I'm happy with dividing the two types of articles relating to Wales to this way, but we would still need some very specific guidance as to when it would be divided by historic counties of Wales and when it would be divided by current administrative areas? SethWhales ^talk 09:53, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

I guess for a large table it wouldn't be sub-divided into sections, but there would be two sortable columns -- for historic county and local authority area. That way there wouldn't need to be any specific guidance. Owain (talk) 10:15, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

I think that's right. In my response I didn't mean to suggest that we should identify, editorially, which sort of features should be grouped by historic counties and which by administrative areas - sortable tables (which I've never compiled myself, but do not seem especially problematic to use) would allow each user to group them in whatever way they wished. Ghmyrtle (talk) 10:50, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Where a historic county is known and relevant, I am sure it is helpful to state it. But, eg the Listed Buildings sources don't tell us Historic County, only the UA and community, and quite a few UAs will be split over more than one Historic County. That only become really relevant for lists that are too big for a single 'Wales' page, but plenty of other lists currently find sub-dividing helpful to give some structure to the page, and also to have summarising paragraphs about different parts of the country. The virtue (possibly the only virtue) of Preserved Counties is that some one else has decided how to aggregate UAs together, rather than an editor having to decide (research) each location. If that is not helpful, is it too problematic to aim for Principle Area (ie Unitary Authorities) as the default division? RobinLeicester (talk) 11:15, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

It is absurd to describe as original research the grouping of Principal Areas to form convenient divisions. Some lists may prefer to be organised into North Wales, South Wales, Mid Wales etc, is this to be forbidden also? Paravane (talk) 12:13, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Where it is used consistently then that is fine. It's the mixing-and-matching that is not allowed. Owain (talk) 12:42, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

(e/c) Whether or not it's called "original research", it's still not especially convenient for readers. The historic counties and the principal areas each have clear boundaries, and we should use those - separately or together - rather than ad hoc classifications. A term like "South Wales" is a useful general descriptive term, but it is not sufficiently precise for classifying features or articles, because its boundaries are indeterminate. Ghmyrtle (talk) 12:46, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

I agree that 'convenience for readers' should be a primary consideration. It would be very much preferable to get some feedback from a large number of readers as to how convenient they find a given set of divisions, rather than rely upon the assumptions of a few editors. Paravane (talk) 14:25, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

The point about sortable tables is that readers choose their own classification, rather than having it decided for them. Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:03, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

This applies only to a list in the form of a single sortable table, and even then the reader can only choose from the classifications offered. Is it being suggested that all tables in Wales - but not in England or elsewhere - are to be required to be in this form? Some such lists will be very large, and may be unacceptably slow to edit. For any list permitted to be divided into separate tables for different regions, the same question persists, what sets of divisions are to be permitted? Paravane (talk) 15:52, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

Wales is equivalent to a region of England in size terms — How big are you expecting these lists to be? Personally I find breaking tables up into sections to be incredibly awkward to use as it is not possible to sort the entire lot on a given column. If lists are really incredibly long and require breaking up then a common-sense approach would be to use whichever sensible and consistent set of areas provides the best result. For example a list of Fire stations in Wales could be broken up into sections based on the fire service areas. Owain (talk) 17:41, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

I am reluctant to throw in yet another scheme, but the Office of National Statistics uses a hierarchy of groupings for europe-wide statistics: NUTS 1,2,3. For Wales, NUTS1 is all of Wales, NUTS2 is 2 groups: 'West Wales and The Valleys', and 'East Wales'. NUTS3 subdivides these into 12 areas of between 1 and 3 UAs. All use the UA boundaries. Full details here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RobinLeicester (talk • contribs) 22:19, 10 May 2012 (UTC)

The NUTS3 scheme divides Wales into 12 areas of between 1 and 3 UAs. The scheme adopted for the List of bridges in Wales and other pages divides Wales into 9 areas of between 1 and 7 UAs. Does someone want to argue that the Office of National Statistics is using a scheme which is not 'sensible and consistent'? Or to argue that one of these schemes is sensible and consistent, and the other is not? Paravane (talk) 15:42, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

The NUTS scheme is in official use; your proposal is not. That's the fundamental difference, though I happen to think the NUTS grouping isn't useful here either, as it is not commonly understood. Ghmyrtle (talk) 16:01, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Is it therefore to be argued that any grouping not 'in official use' should be banned? Paravane (talk) 17:33, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

I don't know why you keep talking about "banning" anything. Please don't. This is a conversation attempting to reach a consensus on what is best. Ghmyrtle (talk) 06:59, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

Look above, e.g. 'It's the mixing-and-matching that is not allowed', 'we should not use original research...'. The tenor of this discussion has been that only the historic counties, the Preserved Counties or the UAs are acceptable options for geographical divisions, which would rather prejudice the outcome of the conversation. I would argue that what is best is what readers - for the most part less familiar with Welsh geography than we are - find most convenient and understandable, and that a wider input of opinions is needed to reach a sensible consensus. Paravane (talk) 10:53, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

Personally, Paravane's 'mix-and-match' divisions don't create a problem with me. The list of bridges uses recognised areas, be they preserved counties or something else, therefore they haven't been invented by anyone, therefore not 'original research' in any sense. I agree we need to use areas that are generally recognisable by people not intimately familiar with Wales. Looking at the other lists, England is generally divided by county. If the purists here will only settle for rigid consistency, then the preserved counties will be out best option. Granted Dyfed and Powys are very big areas, but that is simply a georgaphical and political fact, a minor inconvenience in comparison with someone here having to re-organise all the lists into some other system. Hope that makes sense! Sionk (talk) 16:43, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

After adding further examples, I've converted the material at List of mountain passes of Wales into a sortable table and included 'historic county' and 'principal area. columns. Comment (and indeed any corrections) welcome! cheers Geopersona (talk) 06:32, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Trefael Stone

Could somebody create an article for Trefael Stone? It seems relevant enough: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-18172598 Best Regards. 85.50.248.101 (talk) 02:18, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

If someone is able to take a photo of it, and upload it to wikimedia commons I will create a page for it. There are quite a few reports on the dig, but surprisingly, no pd pictures I have found. RobinLeicester (talk) 23:21, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Wales setting, Welsh fantasy

At Category talk: Novels set in Wales and Category talk: Welsh fantasy, I have inquired about the intended scope of the two categories with attention, essentially, to [a] setting in mythological Wales, fictionalized Wales, and Wales or Welsh-inspired imaginary world; [b] retelling and adaptation of clearly Welsh material, and Welsh-inspired material.

I have read WP:UKNATIONALS and much of its prior discussion. I have skimmed Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Wales/Archive 2#Literature and bookmarked it for a return when I follow some links. Both are educational and mainly beside the points that I have raised, I think.

By the way, category Category:Welsh fantasy actually includes the articles on Tir na n-Og Award-winning books, English-language category --those four having their own en:wikipedia articles-- and one book that would have won the same award if published a few years later. --P64 (talk) 20:58, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Proposal: subcategory for Monmouth buildings/structures

I have suggested a new subcategory Category:Buildings and structures in Monmouth. Discussion is at Category talk:Buildings and structures in Monmouthshire.—A bit iffy (talk) 17:17, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

It now appears the proposed category does exist, but with a slightly different name of Category:Buildings and structures in Monmouth, Wales.—A bit iffy (talk) 18:31, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Article proposed for deletion

I've prodded the article Morfa Mawddach, as I cannot verify the existence of a village so named. I am not, however, an expert on Welsh villages, so any help with evidence (or absence of evidence) would be appreciated. Deor (talk) 17:19, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Looking for a post-1284 Map of Wales

I've seen, in an article, a map of Wales post-Statute of Rhuddlan showing the 6 new counties in green with the rest of the country coloured brown for the Marcher Lords. But I can't find it in Commons and I can't remember which article it's in - it's in none of the obvious ones. Does anyone know of it? Thanks. DeCausa (talk) 09:39, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

This one? FruitMonkey (talk) 11:32, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

...which is a (not very well) redrawn version of this. You could ask Wikipedia:Graphic Lab/Map workshop to draw a better version - or to draw something else, if you tell them what needs mapping. Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:54, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

Thanks to both! DeCausa (talk) 12:01, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

Welsh actors

Christian Bale, Michael Sheen, Anthony Hopkins, Ioan Gruffudd, Keith Allen, Patrick Mower, Hywel Bennett, Tom Jones, Sian Phillips, Johnathon Pryce, Terry Jones, Dawn French, and Griff Rhys Jones, are all Wesh actors. Not to mention Richard Burton and Ray Milland. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.149.186.190 (talk) 09:25, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Indeed. See Category:Welsh actors for many more. What is your point? Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:48, 11 July 2012 (UTC)

Traditional Welsh poetic metres

Today I created the article Cerdd dafod after it was mentioned in the Dylan Thomas page. I then discovered that Cerdd dafod is sort of covered in Traditional Welsh poetic metres. I think the articles could be merged as the older Traditional Welsh poetic metres and Cerdd dafod don't appear to have much cross over even though they appear to be the same subject. Does anyone have an opinion on if they should be merged and if so under what title. Cheers, FruitMonkey (talk) 16:53, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Y Yes, I personally tend to think that the content of Cerdd dafod, given that it appears to be an umbrella term, should be merged into the introduction of Traditional Welsh poetic metres, probably retaining this latter title (although little links to it). Let's see what others say. Hogyn Lleol ★ ^(chat) 19:10, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Translation of Gorsafawddacha'idraigodanheddogleddollônpenrhynareurdraethceredigion

I find the translation of Gorsafawddacha'idraigodanheddogleddollônpenrhynareurdraethceredigion given here and here rather odd (in particular "a'idraigodanhedd" is a peculiar way to say "and its dragon teeth" in Welsh). I'm loth to change it, however, just in case that is indeed what it was supposed to mean and it's just a cack-handed naming attempt rather than a cack-handed translation attempt, if you see what I mean. Please comment here if you have any thoughts. Thanks. garik (talk) 15:55, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Well, I've been bold and edited the translation. If anyone has a proper idea of who came up with the name and what they intended it to mean (if not what it apparently does mean), please come forward. garik (talk) 23:05, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Idole

Can anyone fill in a bit more information about Idole in Carmarthenshire? Many thanks! -- RexRowan  Talk  19:24, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Requesting translation to cy.wiki of Shrapnel (Welsh punk band)

I find this band really catchy, so I dug up some reliable sources off gBooks and made a quick article on them. If anyone Welsh-speaking has a quick moment to translate a 3-line article, I'd appreciate it! Hopefully someone else likes punk music and would find this fun to add to cy.wiki. MatthewVanitas (talk) 01:58, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

BBC Wales Radio Lectures article on the Welsh wiki

Thought this might be of interest, Darlithoedd Radio BBC Cymru on the Welsh wiki has a table listing the lectures from 1938 up until 1994. Don't know if 1994 was was the last one or not, but the info was taken form the publish hard copy of the 1994 lecture. This is the series of lectures that incluyded Tynged yr Iaith by Saunders Lewis.As it's mainly in table format it's easy to transfer here if anyone's interested.--92.245.247.100 (talk) 11:28, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

Bro TV show

Hallo, Editing the dab page at Bro I found the entry:

• Bro, a Welsh television series on S4C

There's no mention of this at S4C or even in List of Welsh-language programmes, but there's a website at http://www.s4c.co.uk/crwydrocymru/e_bro.shtml . Is the programme notable? If so, could someone perhaps create a stub for it, or at least give it a mention in one or other of the above-linked pages, because otherwise it needs to come out of the dab page. Thanks. PamD 07:48, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

I've now tweaked the link to make it:

• Bro, a Welsh television series copresented by Shân Cothi

as it gets a mention on her page (as on Iolo Williams). PamD 07:54, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Cân i Gymru

Hello fellow wikipedians of Project Wales.

A member of Project Eurovision came across the article Cân i Gymru, and asked if it fell under the scope of Project Eurovision. Personally I vaguely remember reading something that the show was based on the Eurovision Song Contest, and potentially the national selection process in the event Wales were to participate at Eurovision in their own right. I have temporarily added WP:ESC banner to the article, but also noticed ProjectWales banner was missing have have subsequently added your project banner to it also.

Would it be possible for a member of your project to do a flying visit to the article and assess it, and also to comment at WT:ESC to shed some light as to whether the show is in fact a Welsh version of Eurovision. Much regards, Wesley♦^Mouse 14:39, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Category:Parliamentary constituencies in Wales

Category:Parliamentary constituencies in Wales, which is within the scope of this WikiProject, has been nominated for renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 18:10, 28 October 2012 (UTC)