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March 3

Metro areas

What other metro areas in US or Canada or english is their primary language or at least their primary secondary language that matches metro NY (thats where I was born, bought up, still live)? And don't want it to be Washington DC because I have been there and really didn't have good impressions of it, but will to give it another try. This isn't the 1st time that I have thought about or isn't my last as well. Because I'm still looking at my other options then NY as well. Don't get me wrong love it here and etc, but don't like certain aspects that come with living in NY. But still want a better quality life for me and others in my future family that I feel NY doesn't provide or at least provides. But not up to standards. At the same time I don't drive and don't plan onto driving. I'm capable of driving. Think thats it for now. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mybodymyself (talk • contribs) 03:15, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Can you clarify your question? What language are you trying to find a match for? RudolfRed (talk) 03:34, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

I'm with Rudolf. Could you boil that down into one intelligible question? What I think you're trying to ask if what metro areas in the US or Canada have good public transportation. Have you tried services like Find Your Spot? Dismas|^(talk) 03:46, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

San Francisco has outstanding public transportation. The Mark of the Beast (talk) 06:24, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

So does Detroit, in the sense that you'll be out standing at the bus stop waiting for a bus that never arrives. StuRat (talk) 07:41, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

If you're thinking of relocating and want to know about overall quality of life, our article on the World's most livable cities gives some lists based on objective criteria. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 09:05, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

I too had difficulty understanding your question, but it seems you are looking to move from New York City to another large city. It should also be in North America, where English is the primary or secondary language, and have reasonable public transport. To be honest, that describes many, many cities north of Mexico. Pretty much any city with more than a million people will have a bus network, though it might not cover all areas or all times of the day. It would be helpful if you said what it was about New York City that makes you want to leave - crime? pollution? poverty? noise? cost-of-living? NYC is a 24-hour city, where pretty much anything is available whenever you want it (eg. not many cities worldwide have a subway that runs 24-hours a day). NYC is also known as a global city and perhaps what you are looking for is near top in the cities listed in that article. If you are prepared to consider places outside North America, and can get a resident permit, some cities in Europe and Australasia have a good quality of life, good transport systems and speak English as a first or second language (nearly half the population of the EU speak English). My personal suggestions: (in North America) San Francisco or Toronto, (elsewhere) Copenhagen or Melbourne. Astronaut (talk) 10:38, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

As noted by others, it is hard to parse this question; but if you are looking for major cities in North America (meaning Canada and U.S.) where English is the primary language; you're basically going to find that all of them outside of the province of Quebec speak primarily English, and there are still many people who speak English as a second language in Montreal and Quebec City, so you can get along in those places. If you are looking for a city with similar traits to New York City in terms of culture, population density, and public transportation; then Chicago, Boston, or Philadelphia may make you comfortable. As you note, Washington DC has a good transport network, but is basically a "Southern" city in its population distribution and feel; it is much more suburban in character, with lower population density and more "spread out". Washington has much more in common with cities like Atlanta or Charlotte in that way, than it does with the older "Northeastern" metropolises. --Jayron32 15:15, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

--Jessica A Bruno 20:25, 3 March 2012 (UTC)Thank you for all of your answers to my question here. Especially with the clarification and etc. Sorry, for not being more clear with my original question here because wasn't sure how to word it and etc. At the same time have also fixed the spelling of a word that I misspelled earlier.

Tetra Pak construction

Do tetra paks use polythene (plastics) in their construction? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 113.146.141.6 (talk) 09:56, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Tetra Pak (which is packaging pioneer Tetra Laval's brandname) makes fluid cartons from liquid packaging board. Paper, by itself, obviously isn't a good container for water-based substances like milk and juice - so LPB is laminated with a waterproof plastic, usually polyethylene. Some cartons also contain a lining of aluminium foil, which reduces gas-permeability and cuts down on UV penetration. -- Finlay McWalterჷTalk 12:42, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

BMWs

Hi guys! Dont know if it fits in this category but there i go does anyone know what rotation degrees a bmw m3 steering wheel has(models from 2003 up to the current ones) is it 900 degrees or less??

thanks a bunch! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.35.47.62 (talk) 10:54, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

For the 2011 model, Motortrend reports 2.8 turns lock-to-lock. That's 1008 degrees.[1] For the previous generation, there's one source that reports 3.0 turns (1080).--Itinerant1 (talk) 10:23, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Aircraft Take-off/ Landings CCTV Recordings

As above, are all aircraft take-offs and landings recorded by the control tower/s? 77.97.208.224 (talk) 11:37, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

No. MilborneOne (talk) 16:32, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

I don't know, but why not? Many much less interesting places are monitored by CCTV. Considering that many airplane accidents happen there, I see why they would care. A CCTV could also provide details about lose objects on the runway or birds flying over. XPPaul (talk) 00:07, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

The question involves the assumption that all airports have control towers. They don't. HiLo48 (talk) 01:21, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

The question is if control towers record landings and take-offs, it doesn't matter if the former are on every airport, even if the OP doesn't seem to care or know that. XPPaul (talk) 11:56, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

So...........as the OP in question....it seems I have wasted my time asking this question....and the time expended on answering it (NOT) by those respondents who either don't know....or care. Thanks for nothing folks. 77.97.208.224 (talk) 12:11, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

You were given a simple and correct answer by MilborneOne: No.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 12:44, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

MilborneOne didn't cite any source. XPPaul (talk) 16:39, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

I doubt if one exists to say that such a practice doesn't take place. To help answer the question (both stated and unstated) more clearly though... A) Not all airports have control towers (see Uncontrolled field if we have an article), B) Many fields that do have control towers have very small ones because they're very small airports (see for instance Southern Illinois Airport, again, if it has an article), C) Many fields don't bring in the kind of money it would take to have a CCTV camera record each takeoff/landing, store all the recordings, etc, D) Accidents often happen in less than ideal weather conditions so the CCTV camera may not even be able to see the aircraft much less any fine detail that gives a clue to the reason why it crashed or whatever, E) Planes are inspected before they take off on their next flight and any loose equipment/parts would/should be caught during that pre-flight check, F) If there is an accident, the NTSB (or other national organization) can often figure out what happened from the wreckage and not need film. Does any of that help? Dismas|^(talk) 16:55, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

I don't agree that a CCTV would cost, nowadays, any meaningful sum of money. There are much more expensive things in an airport, even in a small one. Filming has several advantages, as stated above. Even ATMs, buses and parks have CCTVs. Why not a runway? XPPaul (talk) 17:11, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

The first answer you got was correct if brief, as you asked if all takeoffs and landings are recorded. At major airports most of them are, they have cameras all over the place. Smaller airports with fewer staff and fewer resources don't. Taking an example from my own area, the Nanwalek Airport, which recently had a crash right after a takeoff, does not have any footage of the incident. Beeblebrox (talk) 17:26, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

List_of_airports_in_Alaska certainly provides a long list of airports, and many won't have a control tower. 88.8.68.249 (talk) 20:43, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

CCTV would cost a non-trivial amount of money for many airports considering there would be the cost and upkeep of the cameras, the buried cable (including running cabling under runways and taxiways) unless you go wireless and then you need WAPs, the computers to record everything plus keep back ups in case of failures, and any tech support. For a bank to put a CCTV in their ATM is nothing. The power and computers are already right there in the bank. Small airports that can barely keep a control tower manned likely don't have the kind of funding to keep CCTV cameras on all their runways. Dismas|^(talk) 02:51, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for all that helpful info. It's much appreciated. 77.97.208.224 (talk) 15:55, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Photography with poor light

Which is more important (without flash): a low f-number of a high ISO? XPPaul (talk) 14:41, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Yes.

Seriously, the answer to that question is going to depend on your subject, your camera, and your lens. Sometimes you want or need the greater depth of field (and, with some lenses, the greater sharpness) afforded by closing the aperture down a few stops. Sometimes (depending on your camera, and how far you're pushing it) you can't tolerate the noise associated with high ISO settings or high-ISO film. Many times, it's a compromise. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 15:36, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

You might find this article on the 'Exposure Triangle' useful - http://www.digital-photography-school.com/learning-exposure-in-digital-photography (indeed that whole site may be of use). A key thing about high ISO is you'd have to consider your camera's performance and your intended use. My camera takes reasonable photos at ISO1600 - they don't look the best on screen but in your everyday 5x7 prints they look fine. ny156uk (talk) 09:33, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Can the human jaw rip off flesh?

Hi. My name is Evander. Look at my ear. I can assure you that if a person is crazy enough they can bite through human flesh.

Can the average human jaw bite off chunks of flesh (perhaps in a self-defense scenario) from the arms or shoulder of another living person? Acceptable (talk) 18:20, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Yes, of course, just as it's possible to bite off a chunk of meat from a roast beef. If you do a Google Image Search for "human bite" you'll see a lot of really gross pictures of human bites. Don't do that search if you have an aversion to seeing some mutilated human genitals (ick). Comet Tuttle (talk) 19:11, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

To be fair a well-cooked roast beef should be a lot more tender than raw living human flesh and skin. But I admit that is just nitpicking, and I agree with your point: it is absolutely possible for the human jaw to bite off chunks of flesh. --Saddhiyama (talk) 22:05, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

... and it happens quite often with ears, apparently. (I keep seeing newspaper reports.) The short canines in the human mouth make it difficult (but not impossible) to tear flesh from the arm or shoulder. Dbfirs 23:55, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

NO INFORMATION ON ANZAK - AUSTRALIA NEW ZEALAND ARMY CORPS (WW II)

Dear Sir or Madam,

I entered a query on ANZAK (Subj) and found nothing, no information in your organization/pedia on this significant military contribution to the Allied cause in WW II. Astonishing omission if this is in fact the case. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.166.66.247 (talk) 19:45, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Did you try ANZAC or even Australian and New Zealand Army Corps. MilborneOne (talk) 19:48, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

What's "astonishing" is that you thought the acronym would use the letter K to represent "Corps". -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 20:25, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Not if they're German. StuRat (talk) 21:49, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but not if they speak English enough to know how corps is spelled in English. Ian.thomson (talk) 21:51, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

See http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%99%D7%93_%D7%90%D7%A0%D7%96%D7%90%22%D7%A7 if you can read Hebrew. Regretfully it was not yet translated to other languages. The article deals with ANSAC memorial near Be'eri (Israel), and also cites the other locations of ANSAC cemeteries in The Middle-East. Etan J. Tal 23:50, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

I have just created the ANZAK article, which is now a redirect to the Australian and New Zealand Army Corps article. Now, if future guests type ANZAK, they'll go straight to that article. Here on Wikipedia, anybody can add to our encyclopedia. Comet Tuttle (talk) 00:27, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Maybe the OP mixed ANZUK with ANZAC and got ANZAK. RudolfRed (talk) 01:49, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Well, he did spell it out in the header (in all caps, no less): "AUSTRALIA [and] NEW ZEALAND ARMY CORPS", which has nothing to do with ANZUK.

By the way, it was World War I, not II. However, in World War II the Australian I Corps in Greece was officially renamed ANZAC Corps but for a very short time, less than a month in April 1941. Details are in the article. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 02:06, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Let me just mention that the OP geolocates to the Dominican Republic. Looie496 (talk) 03:51, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

March 4

Are residents of Baltimore Southeners?

From my reading of the map, Baltimore is "below" the Mason-Dixon line. So does that mean that residents of Baltimore consider themselves "Southeners"? 121.44.174.80 (talk) 03:08, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

This article from a Baltimore magazine makes a point of arguing that nobody is really sure. No surprise, really, for a place that is almost right on the boundary. I suspect it is like Washington, DC, in the sense that those who come from the farther north (e.g. New England) find it to be very Southern compared to anyplace they have been; those who come from the Deep South think of it as being quite Northern. It's in the middle and is a muddle of both cultures and mindsets. --Mr.98 (talk) 03:19, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

There's a gradient as one heads south from Pennsylvania towards Richmond. Baltimore has some southern character, Washington has more. Most Baltimoreans would not consider themselves Southerners, except by comparison with New Englanders. Baltimore's character was shaped in the early 20th century by significant migrations of African-Americans from the South, and a considerable migration of whites and blacks from Appalachia to work in mills. The Baltimore dialect is not far from the Philadelphia dialect, however, and the cities share a similar culture. The South isn't far away. Go to Delmarva or southern Maryland, and you're firmly in the South. Acroterion (talk) 03:48, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

See under "Maryland" on Wikipedia:Lamest edit wars. (For some reason I can't link directly to the section.) --Colapeninsula (talk) 10:30, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

And Talk:Maryland/North (Mid-Atlantic State) vs South (Southern State). --Colapeninsula (talk) 10:31, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Determining required emissions equipment

How do I determine if my auto requires California emissions equipment? Macillac (talk) 17:53, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

This page at the DMV seems relevent: [2]. It will depend on where you live and/or the age of the car. RudolfRed (talk) 00:30, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Illinois Midland Railroad

I see that you have the Illinois Midland Railroad listed under Defunct Illinois roads with no information about the railroad, it's history, or any photos. I have some information and copies of pictures of 2 of their engines. This information includes why this vibrant small road was abandoned. The Illinois Midland was the shortest rialroad in the US for some time and might be interesting to people. How would I go about adding the story and the photos to the page? thank you and have a great day. Howard Whitney — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.5.75.176 (talk) 19:01, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

If you have some photos that you are sure that are in the public domain, or that you own the copyright of, you are very welcome to upload them to Wikimedia commons and use them in the article: see WP:Picture tutorial. If they are (or may be) somebody else's copyright, then you should not add them.

As for the information you have, if you have reliable published sources for the information (which doesn't need to be online, but must be published) you are welcome to add it to the article, but information that is only from your own knowledge, or from unpublished documents, is not verifiable, and should not be added to Wikipedia. --ColinFine (talk) 20:19, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

How about Illinois and Midland Railroad? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:18, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Windows Movie Maker

I'm adding a bit of text on top of a picture (it's a slideshow of photos, with background music). The text effect is typewriter. The duration of the picture is 5 seconds. Now, I can either make the typewriter "type" very slowly and make it linger for 5 seconds, or make it type fast, complete the text in 3 seconds, and then simply vanish. Is there any way I can make the text appear in say 4 seconds, and then make it linger for a extra second without any additional animation? I'm using movie maker 6. 117.227.131.116 (talk) 19:04, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Is the background image changing at the time ? If not, I assume you can just clone or remove frames to add or subtract time at each step. StuRat (talk) 06:08, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Who are D.A. Morrison and Gordon A. Brown?

Who were D.A. Morrison and Gordon A. Brown? I am asking because there are two middle school who feed their graduates to East York Collegiate Institute. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.95.107.120 (talk) 20:14, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

My Google Fu is not up to the task, unfortunately. (My suspicion would be that one or both were former senior officials with the school board or municipal government.) For the reference of other researchers, the East York Collegiate Institute is a high school in the Toronto District School Board. You might be able to find out by asking the TDSB directly; phone numbers and an email address for general inquiries are provided on this page. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 22:35, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Dalton A. Morrison and Gordon A. Brown were former principals of their respective schools. Schools were renamed in their honor after in 1980 and 1983. (Source: history pages of schools' web sites.)--Itinerant1 (talk) 10:47, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

This email has been round the world 7 times

I make it clear to all my online friends and others that I will not respond to emails that promise me good fortune if I forward the email on to a certain number of other people within a certain time, and bad fortune if I don't. So, most people now know not to bother sending me crap like that.

But they still appear in my inbox occasionally, and I sometimes read them just for a laugh. I'm still amazed at how often expressions like "This message has been round the world 7 times" are used. I never know just what point it is they're trying to get across. It's not as if emails only ever travel in the same direction, say from east to west. And it's not as if the number of alleged circumnavigations is ever updated; which suggests that this sentence appears on the originating email, which suggests the author is an outright liar, which suggests that everything else in the email is a fraud, which would be a surprise to nobody except gullible fools. So, just what is the point of these accursed things? Who ever derives any benefit from them? -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 20:49, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Isn't that best left as a Rhetorical question. Just ask the Wizard of err.. whats 'is name.--Aspro (talk) 21:18, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

We also have an article on hypertension. Relax, let these piles of trials (and potential hemorrhoids) that appear in your inbox -float over you – and away.--Aspro (talk) 21:29, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Apart from the ones that ask for money or give malicious advice, there doesn't seem to be any point at all. At least, our article Chain letter doesn't manage to identify any clear purpose. Deor (talk) 21:24, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

No point? Seemingly innocent emails can be the start of a 'hook'. The point doesn't become apparent until they 'hook' their target. Intelligence is no defense against this psychology attack as they seek out the naïve. --Aspro (talk) 21:37, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

There's always a point to any human behaviour. The doer always gains some perceived benefit, even if the principal focus of the action is someone else. Sometimes, however, the point is far from obvious. What is it in these cases? This is not a rhetorical question or a rant; I am genuinely curious about the motivation of these people. (Btw, my blood pressure's fine, I had it checked only last week. And hemorrhoids are not an issue.) -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 23:30, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Glad your in fine fettle. The point is: once someone replies they start to expose something of themselves which the a scam artist can then focus on with more customised follow up email- working towards the payoff.

On the point of being a 'gullible fool'. Some agencies of some governments already use a form of Forensic linguistics analysis in order to fabricate sting operations so successfully, that the individuals can be quite innocent of their alleged crimes but find themselves between a rock and a hard place. These days computers can do in milliseconds what the Stasi took months or years over with paper files, in their endeavour to find the physiological tender points of anyone they want to control. A early British pioneer in this work was William Sargant. Why shouldn't the scammers use this technology as well. After all, they have relatives too, and some of them must be working on developing these analytical tools and only too willing to pass the software on when the financial returns could be multiples of the legitimate salary.--Aspro (talk) 23:41, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Sometimes people are just bored and as a hobby would like to see if they can get to manipulate a large number of other people. This is one way to test this: make up some chain letter, and see if you receive it back after 2 months from someone who didn't know you were the originator. It means that a significant enough number of people have forwarded and it came back full circle. Then it gets a life of its own, because as you said, people are incredibly gullible.--Lgriot (talk) 11:05, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

That sounds very plausible; a little like throwing a bottle with a message in it overboard a ship, and seeing whether anyone ever finds it and calls your number, only in the email case there's a far higher chance of that happening.

I'm still particularly curious about the "this email has been around the world X times" thing. I've seen it many times and it still baffles me as to what message that sentence contains. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 11:14, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Probably to do with guilt, see how succesfull this letter is you couldnt possible not pass it on a lot of the original postal chain letters implied a percieved threat if you didnt pass it on this is just a milder version. MilborneOne (talk) 12:29, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

(EC) Purely ObPersonal, as I haven't references, but in my personal experience such phrases date back long before e-mails, to when chain letters were actually written on paper and posted using mail services.

The usual instructions were to post x (typically 6) copies to people you knew, which in those less globally connected days usually – but not always – meant people in your own geographical area: the claim that the letter had already been around the world x times therefore implied that it was already very widespread. This was supposedly important because (a) it demonstrated that its "magic" (the bad luck one would supposedly suffer by not sending it on; gruesome examples were often included – how were these known about?, you might ask) was already powerful and (b) that it had strong persistence.

The latter was important because when copying the letter for onward transmission one usually had to add one's name and address to the bottom of the list of such it contained, remove the name and address at the top, and send the latter a small amount of money, say y – it was a form of pyramid scheme purporting to net one a proportion of £/$y×6⁶, which like most such scams could work only for the originator or early participants. Obviously it relied on dim-wittedness, such that only those unable to see its illogicalities would perpetrate it.

And here (adding my OR) is when Darwinian selection comes into play: as such missives were predominantly transmitted only by the dim-witted, they perpetrated the form with various mutations – miscopyings that degraded or lost some parts of the text such that other parts no longer made any even internal sense, and also transferred the meme to e-mail when that was invented. The whole thing is in a way parallel to the continued practice of seemingly arbitrary religious/folkloric rituals whose original meaning most or none of their practitioners are aware. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.197.66.145 (talk) 12:38, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Most comprehensive reply yet. Thanks, that makes a lot of sense.

Lack of internal sense has never been a barrier to prejudice: I got a message that went on and on about the injustices the Australian Parliament and Government were perpetrating on the people, but it mentioned numbers of Senators and members of the House of Representatives that way exceeded what our Parliament actually has; and other things that made little or no sense in the Australian context (like references to an Electoral College). It was obvious it was originally a diatribe about the United States, and some genius had simply replaced every mention of the USA with Australia but left all the details unchanged. This was very widely disseminated before it ever got to me. Tragic that so-called educated people would just accept this without question. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 19:22, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Sadly, few educational systems seem to be able reliably to inculcate common sense and critical thinking. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.197.66.145 (talk) 19:49, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Well... back in the snail mail days, that claim did make sense. One of my older sisters had penpals as a hobby and I briefly dabbled in it. Those kinds of things were quite common. One version that I particularly liked were chain postcards. They did not contain those useless supersitious nonsense, just short messages or greetings in various languages. They could become a virtual mosaic of stamps which was fun to look at. It was thrilling (for a kid) to hold something which you know has really been around the world. When it becomes too full, the last person who receives it sends it back to the original sender.

Another version was something I think had an actual term in penpal parlance. I forgot what it was though. It was for postcard/stamp collectors. You get one from someone and send back a postcard in return, IIRC. Where it was from could be quite random. But yeah, even then you get the "pass this on or you will die in 10 days!" kind of bullshit as well.-- OBSIDIAN†SOUL 20:07, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

caterpillar tractor medallion (watch fob?) (plaque?)

I have an old caterpillar medallion. It may be called a plaque or watch fob. It is about 1-1/2 inch wide by about 2 inches in height. It has "CATERPILLAR" at the top. Below is written "tract-type Tractor". The rest of it has a pic of a tractor, front end facing to the left. On the back is written Carlton Company Albany, Brunswick Dublin, Savannah

I'm guessing it is pre 1920. Any idea of what it is? I have searched everywhere and can't find anything related. Ed — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.173.195.75 (talk) 22:51, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Can you show us a picture? hydnjo (talk) 00:21, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

I'm thinking it's an advertising piece for the local distributor for Caterpillar. Possibly for use as a paperweight or the like. Certainly to be kept on a desk. But I'd like to see it. Rectangular medals were popular in the first years of the 20th century, by the way. I have a couple of Mint medals of about that size.--Wehwalt (talk) 00:33, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

March 5

Iran would attack to Israel!

it seems that iran goverment is gonna be ready to attack and disturb the country named israel soon on 2012 what do you think? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dr.keyvan (talk • contribs) 07:22, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

I think "the reference desk does not answer requests for opinions or predictions about future events." Clarityfiend (talk) 07:45, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

They already can, and do, attack Israel via their proxies in the Gaza Strip (Hamas) and Lebanon (Hezbollah). They also can reach Israel with missiles. If you're talking about finishing their nuclear weapon and dropping it on Israel, that would be rather stupid, as Israel would then do the same to them. StuRat (talk) 07:49, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

And Israel attacks Iran via its local assassins as well. --Mr.98 (talk) 13:17, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but even putting aside Israel targeting Iran's nuclear scientists versus Iran's proxies targeting Israeli civilians, if you compare the number of Israelis killed by Hamas and Hezbollah with the number of Iranians killed by Israel, it's quite lopsided, showing a great deal of restraint on the part of Israel, until now. StuRat (talk) 21:00, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Err, I'm not sure "restraint" is what I'd call Israeli response. Take a look at the casualty lists in the Gaza War. In the last ten years, far more Palestinians have died than Israelis in the West Bank conflicts. Far more Hezbollah died in Hezbollah vs. Israeli conflicts than Israelis (see the lists at 2006 Lebanon War). And a lot of that front has been quiet for a few years now. But it's not about some kind of crude body count tit-for-tat. I think that sneaking in and assassinating civilian scientists is a pretty provocative act, personally. What do you think the result would be if the Iran was assassinating American physicists at Los Alamos? Even the Soviet Union was not so bold as that. --Mr.98 (talk) 01:36, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

That's restraint towards Iran, not towards Hamas. Iran has already launched multiple attacks against Israel in response to the nuclear scientist attacks, but they had less success, due to apparent incompetence: Iran–Israel_relations#Military_confrontations_and_psyops. And what do you think would have been the result if the Soviet Union had supported terrorists in Mexico who launched missiles and suicide bombers at the US ? StuRat (talk) 07:40, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

The US would have gone after the proxies involved, not taken out hits on Soviet civilian scientists. Obviously. --Mr.98 (talk) 12:31, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

If this was back when the Soviets were working on the bomb, and the US had the ability to slow it down through assassinations, I bet they would have. The CIA did, after all, have several plans for assassinating Castro, and killing Soviet nuclear scientists wouldn't be any more of a provocation than that. StuRat (talk) 20:58, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

If you're asking about a potential Iranian nuclear weapon, those in the US intelligence community, the Israeli intelligence community, the IAEA, and the US arms control community all more or less agree that Iran used to have a weapons program, that it was "paused" in 2003, and that there isn't much evidence they've been pushing forward on a specifically clandestine, military front since then. What they have been doing is enriching uranium for use in research reactors in safeguarded sites (there are cameras in there that the IAEA can monitor in real time, and the IAEA monitors how much uranium goes in and out of the facilities). They have developed at least one other site "in secret," in the sense that they weren't immediately disclosed to the IAEA, but there are questions as to how quickly one must disclose a site to the IAEA (they were not yet enriching uranium at the site when it was undisclosed).

Enriching uranium for reactors under safeguarded conditions is allowed as "peaceful" activity under the NPT. Now there is a lot of concern that Iran's civilian program efforts are really just a front to get into a position where they can later divert the material into a weapons program — that they will be a "nuclear capable" state (like Japan, Germany, Brazil, and Canada) even though they lack an actual weapons program. Once you are "nuclear capable," it's possible to kick out all the inspectors and work on fabricating a bomb (like North Korea did). But they aren't even there, yet, and there's little chance that they'd be able to divert the material or kick out the inspectors without everyone knowing pretty immediately. There is no evidence that they are in a position to actually make a nuclear weapon soon. Many people (myself included) suspect that Iran is not aiming to be an overt nuclear weapons state, but is cultivating nuclear ambiguity in the same manner that Israel does.

Those are the facts on the ground, and there is plenty of room for interpretation about what Iran's intentions are. There is a lot of spin in the newspapers back and forth over this as of late; but if you read the IAEA reports (which I encourage you to do, whenever they are written up as some sort of "new" revelation), make sure to pay attention to whether they say any weapons work was pre-2003 (which has been disclosed and is known about) or post-2003. Pre-2003 is troubling but only post-2003 is "new" or "current". A lot of the news coverage has been very dismaying for those who actually understand the technical issues and the history of this — very hyperbolic, very misleading, very war-mongering. --Mr.98 (talk) 13:29, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

IAEA, (In case anyone was wondering, like me.) —Akrabbim^talk 13:54, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

StuRat and Mr. 98 are correct that local allies of Iran have launched isolated attacks (usually in the form of missiles and suicide bombers) on Israeli targets, and there is strong circumstantial evidence that Israel has been behind assassinations of Iranians. However, there is virtually no chance that Iran will be in a position during 2012 to attack Israel directly with a nuclear weapon. There is very little reason to think that Iran would provoke a conventional military conflict with Israel, though if Israel were to attack Iran first, Iran would likely respond with counterattacks on Israel. Marco polo (talk) 15:23, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

I could see Iran attacking Israel with conventional weapons, just as Iraq did during the Gulf War, to try to make it into a Muslim versus "crusader" conflict, thus gaining the rest of the Muslim world as allies, since they are quite short of allies at the moment, especially if Bashar al-Assad falls in Syria. The combo of being Shiite and trying to obtain a nuclear weapon has made them quite unpopular among many Sunni nations in the area. StuRat (talk) 21:04, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Are you suggesting Iran is likely to invade some other country and when someone else retaliates they will attack Israel? Or that someone else is likely to invade or attack Iran (without Iran first invading another country) prompting Iran to attack Israel? Nil Einne (talk) 14:34, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

The most likely scenario is as follows:

1) Iran mines the straight to cut off oil shipments, in response to crippling sanctions over it's nuclear program.

2) US/NATO/UN minesweepers go in to clear the mines.

3) Iran either fires on the minesweepers, claiming they were in Iranian waters, or the US/NATO/UN forces fire on an Iranian ships laying mines, claiming they were in international waters.

4) War ensues, with Iran hopelessly outclassed militarily.

5) To even things up, Iran shoots missiles at Israel, hoping to bring them in and gain Muslim sympathy for their side. While not likely to bring other nations directly into the fight on their side, it might succeed in preventing those nations from allowing use of their bases, allowing overflight, supporting UN resolutions against Iran, etc. An Arab League resolution against the war or OPEC embargo would be better still. StuRat (talk) 21:05, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Soapbox soapbox soapbox. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 10:45, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

The reference desk does not answer requests for opinions or predictions about future events, HAH! Royor (talk) 04:54, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Q: "When will sunset be on March 8th, 2012, at Stonehenge ?"

A: "How could we possible predict a future event like that ?" :-) StuRat (talk) 07:58, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

At about twilight time. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:49, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Those who are reading, and are interested in, this thread (I simply haven't the strength myself) may find some interest in today's BBC article: How Iran might respond to Israeli attack - Cucumber Mike (talk) 10:37, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

I was not aware that WP:NOTFORUM and WP:NOTSOAPBOX had been demoted to from policies to essays. Ian.thomson (talk) 01:58, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Bull kills man? Or did he live

This can't be real can it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.65.234.81 (talk) 08:40, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

It looks like the horn is impaling the person's head, and it looks like his eye is popping out... that's probably a bad sign. --Ouro (blah blah) 08:51, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

He lost the eye and part of his face was paralyzed, but he lived and eventually returned to the ring.[3] --Itinerant1 (talk) 10:39, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

I would title that picture "just deserts." I enjoyed that almost as much as reading a while back about how a person who ran cockfights was killed by one of their own roosters. Thanks for the laughs. Beeblebrox (talk) 17:03, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

As for the bull, I'm guessing he was very good with A1. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:24, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

I actually kind of doubt that. The level of stress hormones in a bovine's blood stream just before it dies has been shown to effect the quality of the meat. A severely stressed animal will tend to taste bitter. That's why kobe beef is so damn good, they never see it coming. That's also why a lot of modern slaughterhouses process animals one at a time, out of sight of one another, and kill them with an air hammer to the forehead. Quiet, quick, and the other cows don't have a clue. (as you may have picked up I have no objection to eating animals, I just don't think we should torment them while they are alive, for both philosophical and culinary reasons.) Beeblebrox (talk) 03:29, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Transfer pictures and videos from kin phone to PC

I am trying to transfer my pictures and videos to my Toshiba laptop and it is telling me i need to download the drivers for the phone. Or put the disc in. I did not get a disc with my phone nor do I have a direction book, so there are several things I cannot do on my phone for lack of directions. The web cannot find the drivers for my phone, so how would I do that? Also I am trying to send videos and cannot find a way to send saved videos. I can send pictures but I do not get anything that lets me send a video?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.185.153.6 (talk) 17:32, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

It seems you can use Zune to transfer files. Go to http://www.zune.net/en-us/products/kin/ and click 'Get started with Kin', then follow the instructions. You can download a user manual at http://www.phonearena.com/phones/Microsoft-KIN-ONE_id4558/manual (for Kin ONE) and http://www.phonearena.com/phones/Microsoft-KIN-TWO_id4559/manual (for Kin TWO) - Cucumber Mike (talk) 17:56, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

cardinal sin

cardinal sin If anyone gets whats funny about him, can you give me more example of this? (hint: check the name) 203.112.82.2 (talk) 20:27, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

I take it you mean where their surname combines with their rank/title to provide a common phrase, particularly one related to their profession ? I suspect there are many more of these in fiction or show biz (wrestlers, porn stars, etc.) than in real life. Corporal Punishment (wrestler) is one example. StuRat (talk) 20:53, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Some related concepts are nominative determinism and aptronym. (The latter has a list of such.) -- 140.142.20.101 (talk) 22:56, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Such as the ancient and recurring joke about a dentist named "Dr. Payne". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:28, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

I've always been tickled by the motor racing driver Will Power, who certainly needs a lot in his profession. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.197.66.145 (talk) 01:25, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Then there are those names where both parts (or at least homophones thereof) relate to each other, but not to anything the person is known for.

For example, Lorne Greene (= lawn green) and Gale Storm (= gale storm). -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 01:56, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

In Finland, there are meteorologist Pekka Pouta ("Pekka Fair-weather") and gardener Arno Kasvi ("Arno Plant"). These really are their names, not pseudonyms or artist names. JIP | Talk 06:54, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Jaime Sin would be pronounced "high - may sin" which starts to sound a lot like "I'm a sin". There is a funeral director in Salisbury, UK called Will Case and somewhere else in the UK is a gardener/broadcaster called Bob Flowerdew Richard Avery (talk) 08:06, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Actually, it's more like "High - meh". But yeah, still sounds like "I'm a sin".-- OBSIDIAN†SOUL 20:29, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Or the proctologist who works for University Hospital Coventry and Warwickshire called Mr Shatwell... the estate agents in Kidderminster, UK called Doolittle and Dalley... --TammyMoet (talk) 11:48, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

The book "The Geology of Southern Africa" by Edgar D. Mountain - I kid you not, there's a copy on the shelf right behind me! Roger (talk) 11:57, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

There is a relevant article here. I particularly liked the reference to the urology article by Splatt and Weedon. Ghmyrtle (talk) 12:11, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

And there's the close Harman-Ising collaboration. They should have joined a barbershop quartet. Deor (talk) 12:29, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

That happy coincidence was not lost on the two collaborators:[4] ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:19, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

The Reverend Banana was arrested for a crime which may or may not relate to his name. I♦A 12:33, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

There was a Ms. C. Breeze at my college when I was studying there. Equisetum (talk | contributions) 13:21, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

I happen to be a descendant of the illustrious Dr. Ill. Marco polo (talk) 16:02, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

The book Dear Mr. Ripley, about Robert Ripley and the various oddities he reported on/collected has an entire chapter on these kinds of ironic names. Don't have it front of me now, but I remember a portrait of a ham salesman/distributor named Sam Heller ("Ham Seller") Beeblebrox (talk) 17:14, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

And I always thought that this NASCAR driver should have been sponsored by "Depends" adult diapers. --Jayron32 20:25, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

When I started work in the 1970s, the two senior managers in the office were Mr Golley and Mr Ghosh. Alansplodge (talk) 23:01, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

I was tempted to apply for a job as fish biologist just so I could be work with a Dr Salmon. A lack of any skills what so ever in fish biology and an urgent need to apply for a real job I could actually do, tempered my passing enthusiasm. Astronaut (talk) 16:01, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Dr. Brain was a noted neurologist. He edited the journal "Brain." I once read an article about such names, and at the time the US Army included in its ranks a "Private Eye" and a "Sergeant Major." Edison (talk) 01:16, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Wasn't there a character in Catch-22 called 'Major Major Major' who was quickly promoted to the rank of major, becoming 'Major Major Major Major'? Astronaut (talk) 13:09, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Then there's Wright Hassall Solicitors in Leamington Spa... [5]. Astronaut (talk) 13:03, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Immunity to tapeworms

Can a human be immune to tapeworms? Or, can a human with tapeworms fight them off with only her immune system and no outside help? (it's for a book) 169.231.10.169 (talk) 21:37, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Our article on Tapeworm infection needs expanding with this information because researchhas shown that "absolute resistance to the larval stage can be acquired and resistance to a number of cestode species can be artificially induced in a number of hosts" (more detail here). I assume you were not thinking of the beneficial effects or the scientist who deliberately infected himself with a tapeworm for his visit to India and tested its beneficial effects by drinking water from the Ganges. Dbfirs 23:59, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

For a pop culture reference to this appetizing subject, go to about 1:40 of this clip:[6] ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:42, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

March 6

Tapeworm

Is it true that Maria Calas eat a tapeworm to keep slim? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.25.107.43 (talk) 01:59, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Where did you hear such a silly thing? Edison (talk) 02:44, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Maria Callas suffered from tapeworms, and she did lose a lot of weight, but the rumor that she swallowed a tapeworm to lose weight is just that, a rumor. See: [[7]]. Dominus Vobisdu (talk) 07:15, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

An adult tapeworm probably wouldn't make it past the stomach alive, anyway. It would be killed by gastric acid.--Itinerant1 (talk) 10:12, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

What is this Spanish song?

In the Droopy short Caballero Droopy, the Crisco Kid plays this tune on his acoustic guitar. This can also be heard in Vega's theme in Street Fighter II. Sarujo (talk) 02:01, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

It is Cielito Lindo. Looie496 (talk) 02:46, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Wait, I wasn't talking about the tune that Droopy was playing on the violin. I was talking about the the wolf character, the Crisco Kid. I've listened to "Cielito Lindo", and the piece does not appear in that song. Sarujo (talk) 03:14, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

That's a stereotypical "bullfighting" tune. Likely a classical piece, but I don't know what it's called. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 07:34, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

The tune Droopy is playing is the chorus from Cielito Lindo,[8] the best known part, "Ay, ay, ay, ay,/ Canta y no llores..." ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 07:39, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Those chords that the wolf plays are very common chords that are used frequently at bullfights to introduce the paso doble played when a torero is playing the bull well and the president asks for music to enhance the spectacle. Richard Avery (talk) 07:56, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Yep, you've got it. Here are a couple of good examples:[9][10] ←Baseball Bugs Note: Paso doble (or Pasodoble) translates as "double-step" or "two-step". ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 08:02, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

This youtube clip gives more information. Looie496 (talk) 08:10, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Oy. "Welcome to heaven - here's your harp. / Welcome to hell - here's your accordion." -- Gary Larson. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 10:24, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

It's called España Cañí {Gypsy Spain) and it's a classical music piece composed by Pascual Marquina Narro. Read the article for more information. Listen to the full piece here: [[11]] Dominus Vobisdu (talk) 08:33, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

I wonder about that word Cañí. The Spanish Academy[12] only says it means "of Gypsy race" (gitano and "gypsy" both derive from "Egypt"), but no explanation of the origin of the word Cañí itself. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 10:36, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

I wondered (since Gypsies are well known for their music) if it might derive from canciar 'sing', or canto (m) or canción (f) 'song'. A possible connection with derivations of Latin canis occurred to me (given long-standing attitudes towards Gypsies), but the modern Spanish word is perro. Is there a Spanish historical linguist in the house? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.197.66.254 (talk) 18:49, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

According to the third paragraph of Romani people in Spain#Groups and Caló language#Loans, the term is a Spanish borrowing of a Caló word, so it's perhaps of Indic rather than Romance origin. Deor (talk) 02:57, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Kunur --> Coonoor

Is Wikimapia also a part of Wikipedia? If so, may I request you to correct a name of a town in the map as it is wrong? Kindly amend the name of the town shown in your map as KUNUR, Tamilnadu, India to read COONOOR (which is the right English spelling of the town. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.161.253.60 (talk) 11:45, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

WikiMapia is not owned by or affiliated with Wikipedia or Wikimedia. You'll have to contact them yourself (our page WikiMapia has some links that may be useful; Wikimapia User Guide). --Colapeninsula (talk) 12:37, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

How do u burp on command?

Help I'm desprate all my friends can do it but Ii can;t — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.203.132.29 (talk) 15:17, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

why does this question keep coming up? Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Science/2010_November_14#Burping_on_command et. al. Is it because like radishes it is a repeater?--Aspro (talk) 15:47, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

And again:Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2012_February_15#How_to_burp_on_command.3F--Aspro (talk) 16:03, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

It's the first question that's important enough for 7-year-olds to get on Wikipedia with, perhaps. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 20:17, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Really im serious i want 2 be able 2 do this. PLEEDSE hlep!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.203.132.29 (talk) 16:20, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

PLEASE!!~!!!!! IM DESPRATE ALL MTY FRIENNDS CAN DO IT PLeAsEE! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.203.132.29 (talk) 15:16, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Please do not post your question to multiple desks. Practice. Ask your friends for help. Read the links provided above. Stop bugging us about it: we do not respond well to people desperate to accomplish the trivialities of life. Any more of this and we will regard you as a troll and act accordingly. --Tagishsimon (talk) 15:40, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Alexander Armstrongs ears

E$xactly how big are Alexander Armstrongs ears from top to bottom of lobe. I have a bet on this. can you HELP? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.25.107.43 (talk) 17:25, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

I assume you mean Alexander Armstrong (comedian)? If so, why do you think we'd know how long his ears are? As far as I'm aware, there is no compulsory ear-measuring system in the UK, and neither is there a national ear-archive. I think you'll have to ask Armstrong yourself. AndyTheGrump (talk) 17:34, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

How accurate do you need to be? I have a figure, but it's based on a rather hefty chunk of guesswork. What I did was to take this photo and measure from his heel to the top of his head. Then I did the same for his ear. By knowing his height, and a little bit of maths, I got a figure for the size of his (left) ear. Repeating it on this photo gives a similar answer. Therefore I'm going for 9cm 9.5cm from top to bottom, ±1cm. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 19:40, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

My word, that's nearly four inches!. That is incredibly large by any measure. I am totally flabbergasted! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.28.67.225 (talk) 21:08, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

train tickets

So, I bought a ticket on the national rail enquireies website, I was supposed to go today, but things didn't work out and I need to go tomorrow instead. Is there any way I can change the date on the ticket, rather than having to buy a new one, or at least to get my money back, since I haven't even picked it up from the machine yet.

148.197.81.179 (talk) 23:35, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

At least in the US, for airline tickets, they have refundable tickets (at higher prices) and non-refundable tickets. The refundable tickets may also charge a fee for any change, making it difficult to justify them financially. I suggest you read the fine print to discover if your tickets are refundable. StuRat (talk) 23:38, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

How would (unsourced) commentary about U.S. airline tickets be useful in response to a question about UK rail tickets? TenOfAllTrades(talk) 00:46, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

How is relating experiences that may jar something in the OP's memory of the transaction offensive? There aren't that many different schemes for selling tickets the world over, so warning the OP about situations that people in other countries have encountered isn't that far fetched. Besides which, the last sentence did suggest that the OP take a step that they may have overlooked (literally), reading the fine print. Dismas|^(talk) 02:30, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

My UK experience is that the best you'll get is a refund & need to buy new tickets; or else the option to pay an excess to change the dates. I think you need to hunt out the refunds or customer service link on the website you got the tickets from. --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:46, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Read this. You'll need to know who you bought your ticket for - if you got a confirmation email or receipt it should say. --Colapeninsula (talk) 23:55, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

It says I need to return the ticket to them for a refund, but I don't have the ticket, I never even went and picked it up. 148.197.81.179 (talk) 00:18, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Unfortunately, you may need to go there to pick up the ticket. Why would they make you waste your time to do this ? In the hopes that you won't bother and they can keep your money, of course. StuRat (talk) 07:53, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Such cynicism. You know this for a fact, do you, Stu? -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 11:28, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

What part of "may" don't you grock, Jack :-). Obviously StuRat's cynical suggestion wasn't intended as a comprehensive and definitive statement, although I agree with him that it's quite likely part of the scenario. I would wonder if the machine would actually issue a ticket at all for a date already passed. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.197.66.188 (talk) 12:17, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

A non-cynical here but I would assume they want the ticket back to prove that it has not been used/stamped (i.e so they are only refunding unused tickets not those of any Tom, Dick or Harry that decides to try their luck at getting a refund after using the ticket...though I appreciate even this process still has some big flaws). ny156uk (talk) 20:51, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

A daft non-cynic though...they probably know it's never been printed so therefore can't have been used, ignore me!! I'll leave my entry as proof of my daftness :-) ny156uk (talk) 20:53, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Even obvious things like that tend not to be worked into their business practices, unless it results in more money for them. Consider grocery store prices. How often has something rung up for twice the posted price ? Often, in my experience. How often has something rung up for free, which isn't supposed to ? Never, in my experience. In the first case, nobody much cares about fixing the problem, while, in the second case, they fix it PDQ. StuRat (talk) 03:15, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

What sort of shonky merchants are you dealing with, Stu? If this happens "often", do you keep on going back to the same store(s)? Or is there some sort of general conspiracy to overcharge StuRat at every possible opportunity? -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 04:49, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

When I complain that an item rings up overpriced, they fix the price on my item, but never make any effort to fix the price in the system for the next customer. I've gone so far as to remove signs from the shelves which state a lower price than rings up. We used to have a state law requiring merchants to pay 10X any overcharge back to the customers. That actually had some effect. But, alas, the business lobby got that law dropped. I'm surprised it's any different in Aussieland. Large businesses in the US are fundamentally dishonest. In another example, US banks will intentionally delay crediting a customer deposit, if it will allow them to charge stiff overdraft fees. In yet another example, a health insurance company will find some excuse to drop a patient with an expensive disease, like a payment a day late, even though the same patient would be kept on if they were healthy. StuRat (talk) 05:25, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

So, when FDR Coolidge said "the business of America is business", apparently he didn't want anyone to assume he was talking about fair dealing and ethical practices. What date do you fly out of that God-forsaken country to one where you'll be treated justly? And what's taken you so long to realise how bad it is there? -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 08:55, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Far as I know, it was Calvin Coolidge that said that. Silent Cal is regarded by some conservatives as the greatest President ever, for the reason stated by Will Rogers: "Coolidge didn't do anything. But that was OK, because nobody wanted him to do anything." ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 13:23, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

My mistake. Fixed. Thanks. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 19:54, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

There was a shift from "treat your customers honestly" to "cheat them any way you can, if you're sure you can get away with it", sometime after FDR. In banking it seemed to happen with 1980's Reagan deregulation and a Supreme Court decision allowing banks to pick the state with the most lenient laws, put their HQ there, and use those laws to cheat their customers in all 50 states. The states, in turn, all wanted those bank's to put their HQ in their cities, so we had a "race to the bottom" where each state competed by passing the most lenient banking laws. StuRat (talk) 09:01, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

I'm not so sure. It seems more likely a much more significant reason is asking for the ticket is a standard part of the process and not normally an issue since most people have their tickets. Doing something else would not be standard and therefore require the person involved to spend more time and think about it more, perhaps even check with others or even get permission, So they will be reluctant to do it if they see an alternative that's easier for them, particularly if they feel they can justify it. Of course if it's not possible to receive the ticket any more, it seems they will have no choice, although they may not be aware of this until you find out and tell them. Having said that, it wouldn't surprise me if they do have a method of handling cases where you don't have the ticket, not so much for people who never picked theirs up, but for people who lost theirs. However as it may be rare, you'll likely have to check with them directly and perhaps go thru several hoops before you find someone who knows.

I would note I'm not sure what the OP (or others in this subdiscussion) are referring to anyway. As I understand the original question, the OP has already missed their journey. The page linked above doesn't seem to discuss getting a refund in that scenario, only before you travelled. It may be possible, but the website doesn't discuss it so even if you had your ticket you'll need to check further. It is of course not uncommon that refunds will be allowed before travel since in that case they can try to offer your seat to someone else, but will not be allowed after travel where they only found out, if ever, when you didn't show up so it's more difficult for them to offer your seat to someone else. I believe this is often the case even for most generous airline tickets mentioned above by StuRat, usually travel insurance is necessary for refunds when you miss a journey when it isn't the fault of the travel company. [13] [14] [15] do mention some US airlines may allow you to travel on a later flight if you have a good reason for missing your flight, but won't give a refund. Of course, even if the rail company allowed this, waiting until you received this info on the RD seems a good way to ensure it's too late to do anything about it.

In some cases even if a refund is nominally not allowed, you may get one in exceptional circumstances, but this does seem unlikely if you're able to travel tomorrow.

Nil Einne (talk) 14:05, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

If you'd like more information about changing or cancelling a rail ticket, you can -

Speak to someone at your nearest station

Telephone a Train Company telesales centre

--LarryMac | Talk 14:27, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

March 7

Talented individuals without formal medical education

Are there examples of individuals who, despite lack of formal medical education, have made significant contribution to the field of medicine/associated disciplines? The examples should be after the time when the current formal medical system was established. --SupernovaExplosion ^Talk 07:38, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Florence Nightingale, who only received four months of medical training, proved the value of hygiene to improving survival rates. StuRat (talk) 07:45, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

I did not have Nightingale in mind. I think many in Category:Female wartime nurses and Category:Nurses will fall under this category. Laura Crafton Gilpin had formal education in arts, but contributed to another field. --SupernovaExplosion ^Talk 08:15, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Vivien Thomas, a black man with only a high school education, was a pioneer in heart surgery. (You may notice a theme here, since women and minorities were less likely to receive a full, formal medical education.) StuRat (talk) 07:50, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

The example of Vivien Thomas is amazing. I didn't knew it, thanks for the link. --SupernovaExplosion ^Talk 08:15, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Louis Pasteur, perhaps. He was a chemist rather than a physician. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 07:56, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Florence Nightingale educated herself in nursing, not medical, matters. She was not a doctor, but she did have significant influence. (Fixed your Pasteur link Bugs). Richard Avery (talk) 08:05, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

And here less well known contemporary, Mary Seacole. Alansplodge (talk) 22:58, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Depending on your point of view, Linus Pauling. You may also wish to consider the contribution made by the people who developed the various medical technologies used these days, such as CT or MRI. They don't tend to be doctors. --TammyMoet (talk) 09:06, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Che Guevara's friend Alberto Granado, a biochemist, founded the Santiago School of Medicine in Cuba. HiLo48 (talk) 09:54, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Ferdinand Waldo Demara. -- Jack of Oz ^{[your turn]} 11:26, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Demara was a fraud, an imposter, a charlatan, and made no contribution in the field of medicine. --SupernovaExplosion ^Talk 12:17, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

How broadly are you defining 'associated disciplines' and 'medical education'? Doing a quick survey of the last ten Nobel laureates in medicine, only four have medical degrees; the rest are PhDs. Similarly, six of the last ten Nobel prizes in chemistry were awarded for discoveries with direct applications in biology and biochemistry (and that are extensively used to solve problems in medicine). Until you're at the stage of carrying out clinical trials, I strongly suspect that most work done to advance medicine is not carried out by medical doctors. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 16:33, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Hmm. --SupernovaExplosion ^Talk 06:12, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Maybe it's a stretch, but Henrietta Lacks is pretty important for her (posthumous?) use in medical research... bibliomaniac15 07:00, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Elizabeth Kenny is widely credited for her groundbreaking method for treating patients rendered crippled by poliomyelitis, though she she had no formal training as a nurse herself. 70.52.77.66 (talk) 00:31, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Sleeve embellishment on the uniform of Dwight D. Eisenhower

On some pictures showing Eisenhower 1945 or later he wears a uniform jacket with two dark stripes on the sleeve of his uniform. They have some similarities to the rank insignia of a naval officer (LTJG). The two stripes are on the forearm a few inches upwards from the cuff, maybe an inch apart, the lower one is roughly twice as wide as the upper one. I assume that there were strict regulations wrt uniforms and that those stripes have some meaning. Rank insignia, decoration...? What is the meaning of those stripes? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.105.120.70 (talk) 13:24, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

I'm actually having trouble finding a clear photograph that depicts the described stripes. (I had a quick run through commons:Category:Dwight Eisenhower and drew a blank; it's amazing how often Ike is hiding his cuffs in photographs.) If you have an online source, it could be very helpful to have a link to it, particularly if it includes information about when and where it was taken.

If the volunteers here at the Ref Desk aren't able to turn up an answer, you might also try asking over at the Military History WikiProject. Their core focus is on writing and improving articles, but if you're polite and patient you can probably turn up someone there who can help you in your search. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 16:15, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

The stripes that I mean are clearly visible on this photograph http://eu.art.com/products/p14009020-sa-i2845859/posters.htm. I'm pretty sure that those are not service stripes. 194.105.120.70 (talk) 05:54, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

A few more examples with date and place: http://images.google.com/hosted/life/46783ba452d0026e.html http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f?imgurl=9b93d510a403a4e8 http://images.google.com/hosted/life/b9df1b6eef9898e9.html http://images.google.com/hosted/life/59c7283582387b0f.html 194.105.120.70 (talk) 12:24, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Maybe its a Service stripe of some sort indicating length of service? The article says they are for enlisted only, but I wonder if there is something equivilent with a different name for officers? RudolfRed (talk) 16:47, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

The Overseas Service Bar is for wartime service, existed during WWII and is authorized for both officers and enlisted soldiers. See this photo of Eisenhower. Service stripes are only worn by enlisted. Here is another photo of Eisenhower showing the band that goes around the cuff indicating he is an officer. The Army dress green uniform introduced in 1954 originally had a gold band for officers that was later changed to black, while a black stripe was also added to the trousers. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 18:00, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Identify background song

Resolved

 – Song identified. Ks0stm ^{(T•C•G•E)} 23:59, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

What is the song playing in the background starting 18 seconds into this audio clip and throughout this audio clip. It sounds really familiar but I can't place it, and an email to the radio station got no reply. Thanks in advance, Ks0stm ^{(T•C•G•E)} 23:35, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

It's Lux Aeterna (song), the them from the film Requiem for a Dream. Dominus Vobisdu (talk) 23:47, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Awesome! That's definitely it. Thanks. Ks0stm ^{(T•C•G•E)} 23:59, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

March 8

Chilled vodka?

I remember hearing something about keeping vodka in the freezer because that's the temperature at which it's meant to be drunk. What's up with that? DRosenbach ^{(Talk | Contribs)} 02:26, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Why does anything have to be "up" with it? White wine is served chilled; red wine is not. Gagh is always best served live. These are how people like these things. What kind of deeper explanation are you looking for? --Trovatore (talk) 02:36, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Actually, in Japan, the land of inventions, there is a brand (Mercian) which sells red wine meant to be chilled. KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 09:16, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Chilling red wine is not a Japanese invention; even the stoic, solid, tradition-bound French do it: [16], [17]. (It may be that Mercian is one of the few wineries to explicitly claim chilled reds as a novel market niche, however.) It is said that the 'serve red at room temperature' rule of thumb is best observed if you live in a drafty Scottish castle or deep subterranean limestone wine cellar. Twenty-first century climate-controlled room temperature is a bit too toasty for virtually all reds, and their flavor will improve appreciably if taken just a few degrees cooler. More aggressive chilling can work quite well with lighter, less tannic reds (simpler, fruitier, unoaked styles particularly) as an antidote to hot weather; the astringency can give the wine a nice bite. On the flip side, white wines are often served too cold: straight from the refrigerator, just a few degrees above zero. Allowing them to warm just a bit means you don't numb your taste buds, and also means that you get more volatiles released. (Generally, the better the white, the warmer it can – or should – be served.) TenOfAllTrades(talk) 15:12, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Vodka is meant to be more or less tasteless. Keeping it extremely cold helps this — it makes it just a cold sensation, ideally. For specific drinks, like the martini, the use of extremely cold spirits (vodka or gin) means you don't have to use ice, which means it isn't diluted. --Mr.98 (talk) 03:06, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

I imagine the high alcohol content plays a part, as it tends to burn, if not cold enough to slow the reactions. StuRat (talk) 03:10, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Wish I would remember to put my vodka back in the freezer :) Astronaut (talk) 15:29, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

It's a cultural thing. Russians generally do not keep their bottle of Stoli in the freezer, nor do they mix it with anything else. European and American "smooth" vodkas such as Svedka are more used in mixed drinks and are often chilled, which does reduce further the taste of the strong alcohol content, making it possible to get very drunk without meaning to because the drinks all taste like kool-aid and not booze. Beeblebrox (talk) 17:02, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Official Secrets' Act in the UK

Hi, I've looked on the Wikipedia pages for the Official Secrets Acts in the UK (there are multiple pages as there are acts from different years) but they're long, and I haven't found what I'm looking for. I know that people that sign the act can't disclose particular information, for example, those working for GCHQ can't admit to it if they do a secret job. But what if the police asks them what they do? Or a court? I guess courts enact laws, so the GCHQ employee can confidentially release information in court, but because the police only enforce the law, I don't know about them. The GCHQ guide thing [18] doesn't say about talking to the police. I don't work for GCHQ, the SIS, or the Security Service, and I haven't spoken to the police, but I'm just interested. If anyone knows anything, your help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance. 134.83.1.243 (talk) 03:11, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Quibble: Courts only interpret laws, they don't enact them, legislatures do. In the case of the UK, that would be Parliament. StuRat (talk) 04:16, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Ah, thanks; I thought enact meant act out the law, whereas, according to Wiktionary, enact, for law, means to make the law. Learnt something new. :) 134.83.1.243 (talk) 05:54, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

I had to sign the OSA when I was conscripted into the army in 1949, am I still bound by it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.211.130.94 (talk) 07:30, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

As Tango states in the post below, we don't give legal advice but if your asking from the point of view as to what you can tell your grandchildren then I can give some context. Most service people were bound by the 30 years rule. For those people working on very sensitive work they were bound by the 60 year rule (I.e. those working at Bletchley Park). Where caution needs to be exercised is that the clock doesn’t start from the date of signing but from the date of that which comes under the OSA – even if you have left the services. The OSA is a catch-all in that respect, 'anything' can be an OS. Even things that are public knowledge but when collected together could be considered useful to an enemy, is covered by the Act. However, common sense should be able to guide you if you just want to pass on to the kids your memoirs (or your recollections to your chums down the local pub). So in answer to your question – you might still be. However, people who posses 'sensitive' information tend to know the context of that information and so can withhold or speak of it accordingly without ending up in the Bloody tower. --Aspro (talk) 22:43, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

We don't give legal advice, consider asking the army or some other suitable party if you're not satisfied with the advice they provide. Nil Einne (talk) 11:55, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

The OSA is an Act of Parliament, so it binds everyone within UK jurisdiction (which includes UK citizens outside the UK). It isn't a contract, so signing it doesn't really do anything. It is just a way to make sure you are aware of your obligations and to prove that you were aware of them. This is explained in our article at Official Secrets Act#United Kingdom 2. --Tango (talk) 17:14, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

(@134.83.1.243): People in SIS, GCHQ, etc., aren't above the law, so naturally the police can question them like anyone else. When the discussion doesn't about stuff material to their job (like a driving issue) the most they'll be asked is their occupation ("civil servant") or maybe where they work ("in the foreign office in whitehall"). People with secret jobs have a non-lie, non-specific thing they say (in many circumstances) when asked about their job (at cocktail parties, on mortgage applications, and when chatting with Plod) - it's rarely interesting or very secret-sounding ("I'm a civil servant at the home office"). Police enquiries that have nothing to do with the person's job or workplace or their official duties will rarely go beyond that (as they rarely go beyond that for anyone, as it's usually not material what someone does day to day). For enquiries starting in the official domain ("who stole MI-5's paperclips") that gets handled either by the department's internal people, or by the Special Branch (often the Met's special branch). That only leaves a few cases where a non-official enquiry has to probe into an official area (e.g "I have reason to believe there may be child pornography on your government-issue laptop; under the terms of section 49 of the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000, I require you to tell me the secret password"). At that point the secret-agent-man has to say "that covers official materials which may be subject to the terms of the Official Secrets Act"). From there, ordinary Plod knows he has to defer to special-Plod (which is again usually the Special Branch, although not all forces have an SB per se). Chief Officers and other senior usually have the necessary PV to know some secret stuff (at least that the suspect works at SIS and not "universal exports") so if say an SIS officer was suspected of child-porno crime, his case would probably be handled by the relevant Inspector or Chief Inspector (someone who doesn't normally do day-to-day police work any more). Simply saying that something is covered under the OSA isn't that much of a revelation - OSA used to cover all kinds of trivia, and even now it covers a wide range of stuff that's far from the glamourous world of spying. There are probably cases where the great additional bother of conducting an investigation of a relatively minor crime outweighs the public interest in pursuing it, in which case the DPP gets a phonecall from the relevant agency and the prosecution gets dropped under the public interest clause (which they do already in other circumstances, e.g. for stuff that's too expensive to prosecute in comparison to the likely convictions they'd get). I'd imagine that if two SIS officers come to blows in the office over some personal thing, that might only be handled as a discipinary thing rather the assault charges that might arise if it'd happened in a normal office. But serious crime (e.g. if one SIS guy had stabbed another in the office) they'd investigate as above and prosecute as normal. When things get to court, judges can usually be prevailed upon to keep secret stuff out of the record. 87.114.9.76 (talk) 21:57, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

In regard to stuff that secret-agent-man might do as part of the course of his duty, that would be illegal if you or I did them (bugging phones, intercepting internet traffic, breaking into houses and rummaging through your wife's unmentionables): these days that's handled under a legal framework (the security service act 1989, the prevention of terrorism act and its many children, and RIPA) which specifies the circumstances under which stuff is legal, and what happens to officers who go beyond that. Before then the legality was a bit shadier - MI5, SB, and GCHQ acted in part under the terms of Home Office Warrants (which are essentially documents the Home Secretary signs saying it's okay for them to do otherwise illegal stuff, because it's in the national interest). It was decidedly questionable if the HS had the statutory authority to write these magical "get out of jail free" cards (it's parliament that makes statute, and I don't know of any act that explicitly devolved such sweeping power to the HS, except wartime stuff like DORA). Had the rip-roaring MI-5 of the 1960s and '70s (as described in Wright's perhaps rather fanciful Spycatcher) come before a properly backboned court, its officers might well have been done up for all kinds of stuff, regardless of nice letters from Rab Butler and Roy Jenkins. But they didn't, and were't blinking likely to. 87.114.9.76 (talk) 22:22, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

87.114.9.76 (talk) Thank you so so so much for all that you have written. It is really interesting, and you've been of unbounded assistance. Thank you for your help! 134.83.1.243 (talk) 22:48, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Treatment for would-be political suicides

No objections were lodged on the talk page to this question, so here goes:

In 2004, there was a liberal (or "progressive") guy who shot himself at Ground Zero in New York because he was despondent at George W. Bush's re-election. It turned out he also had some personal relationship stuff going on that contributed to the suicide, but there have been others who have killed themselves, or tried to, either because of despondency at a political situation or as a political protest. See Szmul Zygielbojm, Jan Palach, Lee Kyung Hae, etc.

When someone is suicidal, or survives a suicide attempt, he or she is taken to a psyche ward. But assuming that such a person does not have something like schizophrenia or bipolar disorder, for which there are standard treatment programs of medication and therapy, what would they do with a guy like one of the above-mentioned people if he survived? I can't imagine that a daily Zoloft and a weekly hour with a therapist would solve a problem the guy sees as completely external. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 04:07, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

I still think anyone who wants to commit suicide as a protest is rather unbalanced, so they should probably be locked up in the loony bin. StuRat (talk) 04:14, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Sadly, since political protest in many contexts can be suicidal, this implies that the locking up of political dissenters as mentally ill is justified. StuRat, I think you need to look into the subject a little further before making such sweeping statements. You could do worse than start by reading Michel Foucault's Madness and Civilization. AndyTheGrump (talk) 04:38, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

There's a major difference between taking part in a protest at the risk of being killed and outright killing yourself. StuRat (talk) 04:42, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Is there? If the outcome is inevitable, what is the difference? If suicide by cop is suicide, why isn't suicide by political dissent? AndyTheGrump (talk) 04:49, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

The difference is intent. If it's your goal to die, then it's suicide. If that's not your goal, then it's not suicide. StuRat (talk) 04:51, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

And if you goal is to live, then taking part in a political protest may be irrational - which 'justifies' the confinement of protesters as mentally ill. This is a complex issue, and trite responses will get us nowhere. AndyTheGrump (talk) 04:56, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Again, you are oversimplifying things. Just because your goal isn't to die doesn't mean your only goal is to live. Martin Luther King is an example. He realized he might be killed, but that certainly wasn't his goal. Neither was his sole goal to live. Rather he was willing to risk death, without seeking to die. The same was true of Gandhi. StuRat (talk) 05:15, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

"Just because your goal isn't to die doesn't mean your only goal is to live". Very true. But once one starts portraying apparently-suicidal acts (like political dissent) as 'a goal to die', one can lock up dissenters. The mechanisms of state control implicit in the confinement of the 'mentally ill' are rarely that concerned with intent, in any case. I'd seriously recommend you read Foucault: it is one of his more accessible works, and actually entertaining (in a visiting-the-asylum sort of way) as well as thought-provoking. AndyTheGrump (talk) 05:27, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

In such a society, they can lock up or kill anyone for any reason, anyway. StuRat (talk) 05:31, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

How does on distinguish a society that can 'kill anyone for any reason' from one that chooses to do so (or chooses to pretend to do so) for particular reasons? And why does it matter? Martin Luther King chose to pursue a course that substantially increased his chance of an early death, precisely because his only goal wasn't to live, but to make the world a better place to live in. He was apparently wiling to make the sacrifice for a cause, should it be necessary. Political suicides may believe they are making the same choice. They may well be wrong (and I'd suggest that they almost certainly always are), but there is nothing inherently more 'irrational' in their choice than in MLK's. AndyTheGrump (talk) 05:49, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Using the "ends justifies the means" argument only makes sense if the "means" (possible or certain death) has a reasonable chance of accomplishing the desired "ends" (changing society). Committing suicide is extremely unlike to cause society to change. This makes doing so irrational, while MLK's actions, which were likely to bring about a change in society, were rational. StuRat (talk) 05:57, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

And who gets to decide whether actions have "a reasonable chance"? Do you think that at the time that MLK carried out his actions, those in a position to decide who was 'rational' (or at least, those in the position to confine those they saw as 'irrational') would have seen his actions as likely to bring about change? And would this have made them more, or less, likely to confine him? AndyTheGrump (talk) 06:08, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

That his actions were bringing about change was irrefutable (that's why his enemies hated him so much). At each step in the process some goal was accomplished. StuRat (talk) 06:12, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

As far as I'm aware, hindsight is rarely used in the diagnosis of 'mental illness'. AndyTheGrump (talk) 06:22, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

If you're trying to judge someone's sanity, you'd better look at what happened in their past. And, unless you're talking about MLK's first protests, he would have already had a record of success. StuRat (talk) 08:43, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

While this isn't an area I know much about, I don't believe treatment of suicide attempts is as simple as you question seems to suggest. Even in more for lack of a better word, 'ordinary' cases, people who have tried to take their own lives may not suffer from something like schizophrenia or bipolar disorder although may have a range of conditions which may be subject to psyhiatric care (particularly I believe depression). Take a look at these cases of self-immolation, [19] [20], while in nearly every case the people had pre-existing contact with mental health care institutions, their individual cases are quite variable and quite a few didn't have schizophrenia or bipolar disorder, so the treatement is often fairly individualised. (Most of these appear to be the more 'ordinary' cases rather then attempts at a political statement or whatever.) Self-immolation is probably a rare form of suicide in the developed Western world, [21] [22] [23] [24] but may be more common elsewhere. [25] [26] while concentrating on intervention before any attempts are likely also relevant. Similarly [27] while discussing suicides in the Aboriginal Australian context may be useful as it discusses various types of suicide. I think [28] may also be relevant since it emphasises you have to take care not to read too much into a suicide, while it may be seen like a political statement or have had that effect, that may not always be the primary intention or cause. There may very well be features common with more 'ordinary' suicides like depression, with or without 'good reason'. Nil Einne (talk) 11:45, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

P.S. I don't want to get too much in to the debate above, I believe there's now general acceptance in medical ethics that people on a hunger-strike shouldn't be force fed if they are capable of forming a rational and unimpaired judgement (see Declaration of Tokyo) although this doesn't seem to be followed a lot of the time. While there's sometime similar sentiment people who attempt suicide shouldn't be treated if they make a rational decision to refuse treatment [29]/[30], I think it's rare that this is followed. (And of course arises much more in cases when the person has a terminal illness or similar although [31] mentionmed in the earlier sources was not such a case.) The discussion above appeared to be more trying to stop future attempts but similar issues arise there. Suicide intervention claims (without sources) that in the US anyone who expresses the intent to harm themselves is 'automatically determined to lack the present mental capacity to refuse treatment'. I think the number of 'political' cases in the developed world is probably small enough that it's not something commonly considered in ethics cases anyway. Further, I think it's generally accepted one of the reasons why many suicide attempts fail is because the person didn't really want to die (perhaps realising so after the attempt but when there was still hope). If a person really wants to commit suicide for political reasons, this issue won't arise so the proportion of failed suicides may be lower. (And unlike in terminal illness cases, the person may not suffer physical limitations making it more difficult.) Nil Einne (talk) 12:40, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Although on a superficial level the cause of the suicide may look to be external, there's almost always an internal component. It's really not "my wife left me, so I'm going to kill myself", or "the creditors are hounding me, so I'm going to kill myself" or "George Bush got reelected, so I'm going to kill myself", but rather it's more "my wife left me, which makes me think my life is worthless, so I'm going to kill myself", or "the creditors are hounding me, and I don't see any way out, so I'm going to kill myself" or "George Bush got reelected, which causes me to think that the world is irrevocably broken, so I'm going to kill myself". Therapy or medication can potentially help someone get over whatever internal mental process is equating some (completely survivable) external event with justification for killing themselves. Of course therapy won't cause Bush not to get reelected, but it may cause you understand there are ways of dealing with it other than ending your life. -- 71.35.120.88 (talk) 17:24, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

So could Jan Palach have been talked into accepting a life under Communism at a time when there was no inkling that the system would ever be dismantled in his lifetime? -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:05, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Shortest Featured Article in Wikipedia

What is the shortest FA in Wikipedia? --SupernovaExplosion ^Talk 05:53, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Possibly Miss Meyers. See Wikipedia_talk:Featured_article_statistics#Ten_shortest_articles_2. ---Sluzzelin talk 06:46, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the links. I asked this question because I will nominate A Free Ride for FAC if it is listed as a GA. So I need to look at another short article. --SupernovaExplosion ^Talk 06:57, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Is it possible to rent music stands in the San Diego area?

Is it possible to rent multiple music stands and have them delivered to a location for a one time event in the San Diego area? Who can we contact?--128.54.193.69 (talk) 08:36, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

A large music store might do that. StuRat (talk) 08:40, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

These people rent them in San Diego. There seems to be quite a lot of companies doing this. I found them by googling "music equipment rental". --Colapeninsula (talk) 10:14, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Paint.NET

How Do You Make animations in Paint.NET?98.71.63.61 (talk) 21:05, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

apparently, you can use a downloadable plugin to do this: see the Paint.net forum [32].

I've not tried this myself, so I can't say how effective it is. AndyTheGrump (talk) 21:30, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

No download.98.71.63.61 (talk) 21:46, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

There is a working link for the download at the bottom of the first posting in the thread: it is labelled 'AnimationEffect v0.85.zip'. AndyTheGrump (talk) 21:54, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Paint.NET does not have native support for animated images. However, I have used this plugin and it works quite well. (The download link can be found at the top of the page) To create an animated GIF or PNG, create one animation segment in each layer. Every layer is considered a separate animation frame. When you press "Save", select the ".agif" file format. The plugin saves the .gif file with a .agif file extension so in order for a browser to recognize the file, you need to change the file extension to .gif. (If you use windows, right click on the file and select "rename"). If you have any questions, I would be happy to help. Best, Alpha_Quadrant (talk) 22:30, 8 March 2012 (UTC)