Wikipedia:Reference desk/Miscellaneous

Welcome to the miscellaneous section
of the Wikipedia reference desk.

skip to bottom

Select a section:

• Computing
• Entertainment
• Humanities
• Language
• Mathematics
• Science
• Miscellaneous
• Archives

Want a faster answer?

Main page: Help searching Wikipedia

   

How can I get my question answered?

• Select the section of the desk that best fits the general topic of your question (see the navigation column to the right).
• Post your question to only one section, providing a short header that gives the topic of your question.
• Type '~~~~' (that is, four tilde characters) at the end – this signs and dates your contribution so we know who wrote what and when.
• Don't post personal contact information – it will be removed. Any answers will be provided here.
• Please be as specific as possible, and include all relevant context – the usefulness of answers may depend on the context.
• Note:
  • We don't answer (and may remove) questions that require medical diagnosis or legal advice.
  • We don't answer requests for opinions, predictions or debate.
  • We don't do your homework for you, though we'll help you past the stuck point.
  • We don't conduct original research or provide a free source of ideas, but we'll help you find information you need.

Ready? Ask a new question!

How do I answer a question?

Main page: Wikipedia:Reference desk/Guidelines

• The best answers address the question directly, and back up facts with wikilinks and links to sources. Do not edit others' comments and do not give any medical or legal advice.

See also:

• Teahouse
• Help desk
• Village pump
• Help manual

February 10

memorrial/military

thiepeal/britishmemamorial namesthereon? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.97.96.186 (talk) 16:11, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

Are you referring to Thiepval Memorial? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:47, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

Thiepval shows the names of the missing at the Battles of the Somme in 1915 and 1916. The Menin Gate shows the names of Commonwealth soldiers without a known grave who died in the various battles on the Ypres Salient from 1914 to 1917. The Tyne Cot Memorial to the Missing has the names of those who died in the same area between August 1917 and the Armistice. The United Kingdom's national memorial is the Cenotaph, Whitehall in London, which carries no names. Alansplodge (talk) 19:19, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I've just noticed that you asked specifically about Thiepval. You can find details of the names at the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website; Find War Dead - THIEPVAL MEMORIAL. The results are in alphabetical order by surname, but you can change the order by clicking the arrows on the green bar at the top. I hope that helps. Alansplodge (talk) 19:19, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

What is your profession ?

I always see some users (like Jayron, StuRat, Wickwack, Nimur, Jack of Oz, Baseball Bugs, Trovatore, SteveBaker, Plasmic Physics, BenRG, sean hoyland, Dbfirs, Dmcq, Looie, Guy Macon, Shantavira, Whoop whoop pull up, Someguy1221, Mr.98, Wnt, μηδείς, Futurist, Gilderien, Hcobb, DMacks, Gandalf, Modocc, Ruslik_Zero, iouch!, and many others) editing Wikipedia, answering questions asked on Reference Desk, creating new articles, managing archives, and many other bulky things. Why do you do so ? Whether it is your profession or you do these things for knowledge. Do you earn money from this ? I am curious to know why you do such bulky job ? Which of the following is the main reason for your noble work ? - For money, or for knowledge, or for any other reason, or for all reasons I mentioned. Whenever I ask questions on Reference Desk, I get reply instantly whether it is day or night. Why you all remain connected to Wikipedia throughout the day ? Whether you all are working in the same building or different countries ? Want to be Einstein (talk) 16:34, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

The answers are many and varied. You might want to start at Wikipedia:Wikipedians.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 16:49, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

• If there were more TV shows with Summer Glau I'd probably edit much less. I enjoy writing, and I type fast. μηδείς (talk) 17:54, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

It's not for pay, it's a hobby, like collecting stamps, only much more fun and interesting. And it's also very educational. I learn new things from wikipedia nearly every day. It's the first place I look for any factual information. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:43, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

Oh, yes, that's a huge point. I have learned some incredible stuff from other people's threads and gotten great answers to questions of my own, often things I have wondered about for years and had absolutely no idea where to find the answer. I read all the major popular science and news websites, for example, but find I get a much more information-dense experience here than reading the general media. A bit random here, but that's a good thing to, as it brings up things you didn't even know you didn't even know. μηδείς (talk) 19:04, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Professional imposter, you too can do it ;-) Dmcq (talk) 18:54, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

We're all around the world, so if you post something here, it shouldn't be too long before someone who knows the answer sees your question. Of course this will take longer if you ask something more specialised. --TammyMoet (talk) 20:11, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

Some (most, I dare say), such as myself, work at a computer and therefore have access to both Wikipedia and other resources that can help answer questions. We also want to know things and due to that desire, also already know many things. Not only do I use the desks to read responses on topics that I was unfamiliar with and then read the articles that are mentioned (and thus learn) but helping out also satisfies my desire to help out the world in general. I already help out my local animal shelter, so why not help here? Dismas|^(talk) 20:37, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

• I'm a chemistry teacher by profession; but I am not currently practicing by choice; when we had children I became a stay-at-home parent during the day, and I now work some during the evenings as a private tutor. When my children are all at school, I intend to return to the teaching profession. Having a "job" which naps 3 hours per day opens me up to having some free time to work on Wikipedia. --Jayron32 20:39, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

• I'm a masochist, and I find I can be abused much more quickly and cheaply here than by paying a dominatrix to do so. :-) StuRat (talk) 05:30, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

A true masochist who's a straight male would probably prefer a dominator to a dominatrix. Then again ... -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 07:24, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

• I am a freelance translator, which means I use a computer for most of my day, and I have to look up information to help me in my job. There are some periods when I have no work to do, so I just read anyway, just to save time when my next job comes in, and also answer questions here on the RefDesks in my subject area. I'm also a language teacher, so I need Wikipedia to answer questions I may have in class. The questions can be quite varied, so I need to anticipate what they will be, and what the best answers should be. I don't get paid for editing Wikipedia, but I receive at least as much knowledge as (or probably more than) I give here, so it's a good thing for me. KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 06:33, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

I like helping people, work in a creative industry and do my best work while thinking about totally unconnected things (some creative people may be able to squeeze out ideas like toothpaste from a tube, but my toothpaste likes to come out of its own accord when I've left the bathroom, turned the light off and gone downstairs, making me wonder if it's actually goblins squeezing the tube for me), and have a low tolerance for boredom. The Ref Desks help me with all three of these aspects of my frankly barmy personality. So actually, by you posting here, you're actually helping me and probably keeping me saner (note the comparative) than I'd otherwise be. --Dweller (talk) 11:21, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Like others I edit in part to gain knowledge. But it has to be something I enjoy, so I tend to stay away from areas of Wikipedia that would cause me stress or that I couldn't edit neutrally. For the most part none of us get paid, there are a few (paid editors) WP:Paid editing but they probably don't edit much outside of the area they are getting paid to work on. Also the replies you get here will be from the "good guys". The editors here are editing for the right reasons but if you look around there are other editors that come with a specific agenda. They come with all sorts of agenda. To fight nationalistic battles, ensure their favourite cause is correctly presented, ensure that "famous person" who they hate is painted as black as possible. Fortunately there are more of the "good guys" than them. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 14:47, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

I work in computer graphics - I frequently have a few minutes to spare (ob.xkcd ref: http://xkcd.com/303/) and the reference desk is a great 5 minute mental workout. Some questions require one to employ lateral thinking - others are more like a crossword puzzle. The best ones require one to learn something new in order to answer correctly - often resulting in an interesting trawl though some of Wikipedia's back-waters. I'm fairly sure that I learn more by answering questions than I could by asking them. This morning, I learned (by finding the equation and crunching the numbers) that if the earth were a black hole, it would fit into a test-tube and I realized that a pie chart that someone had posted in answer to a question was in fact useless. OK - my compile just finished - so back to actual work! SteveBaker (talk) 16:36, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

I miss mainframe days, when submitting a program to compile guaranteed me a coffee break. :-) StuRat (talk) 17:50, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Payment for editing is very rare, though someone on the Wikipedia:Reward board is offering "€100 to a charity of your choice". I edit and answer questions as a hobby, usually whilst listening to the radio or watching TV or participating in a conversation (though my ability to multi-task is declining!) Like others, I find that I learn by answering. Occasionally I just know the answer, but often I have to check my facts (or wish afterwards that I had done so), and sometimes I see a question that I know very little about, but might have asked myself, so I do some research to find an answer. I don't spend all day connected to Wikipedia, but keep coming back to it, like an addiction! Dbfirs 18:14, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Correcting some of the dumb and useless answers certain people give is one of my main reasons for being here. Adam Bishop (talk) 22:15, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

You're not working hard enough at it, I fear. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 22:42, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

I was going to say there are more of them than there are of us...but that's not true, they're just more prolific... Adam Bishop (talk) 00:58, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

I do it for fun. I am a semi-retired professional engineer and manager, and do a number of things to keep mentally fit - answering questions on Science Ref Desk is one of them. I myself have asked questions on Ref Desk in the past. It seemed reasonable to return the favour to the commnunity by providing some answers in return. However, the quality of questions on Science Ref Desk is dropping, and a quite a few topics seem to get repeated (as an example, currently we have a question about whether present day humans can be clasified in sub-species. This topic has been done to death multiple times in the past). The quality of answers is often not to good either - though many are excellent. Providing a good answer often attracts peanuts who are off-track or simply don't know what they are talking about. I see this with answers I provided, and I see it with answers others have provided. So, I will probably cease contributing soon. Wickwack 124.178.129.131 (talk) 15:05, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

mountain passes of the carpathians OR carpathian passes

Why is the Uzhok Pass missing from your list of passes? It runs between Uzhgorod and Turka. It was VERY important during wars and political and transportation issues. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.6.117.104 (talk) 18:19, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

You can add it yourself. You can also create the English article. Articles already exist in German, Czech, Polish, Ukranian, and Russian. You can find the links to those articles at the bottom of this page. μηδείς (talk) 18:50, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

awkard question

how much is a corresponding bra size c in practice? --80.161.143.239 (talk) 18:47, 10 February 2013 (UTC)Italic text

How much what? Your question doesn't make sense. What about bra size "c" do you want to know? --Jayron32 18:48, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

Flesh, maybe? The OP could check out Brassiere measurement and see if that makes his cup of knowledge runneth over. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:50, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

I mean do it corresponds for example. an orange, a pear or something else? --80.161.143.239 (talk) 19:00, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

More like a pair, typically. But feel free to buy a bunch of different sizes and test them with various fruits. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 20:15, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

With the approach of St Valentines Day, and as a service to mankind, I post this article here. You're welcome. --TammyMoet (talk) 19:09, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

Good article and it actually mentions something that I suggest to other men rather often, snoop! For extra money, I work customer service at an online clothing retailer. The question that I get the most is "What size would fit my wife/girlfriend who is XXX tall and XXX pounds?" I don't know! But your wife/girlfriend does. She's wearing exactly those size of clothes right now and there are likely many more examples in her drawers and closet. So go look. And then the part that I don't mention since it would get me fired, is that if they are ordering a clothing item now with such a short time until Valentine's Day then they are bad planners who should just go get her some flowers which do not have any size requirements.

when buying women clothing, for Valentines Day for instance, buy it a size or two smaller. Supply a gift receipt so she can return it "if it's too big". I imagine buying a bra would go the other direction. Gzuckier (talk) 06:39, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

While I understand the intention it seems to me this could easily backfire depending on the person and the relationship. It could easily be taken as a sign ou think they are too fat. May also give the impression you don't know them as well as you should. Probably far better to aim for the right size, perhaps erring on too small if needed but not aiming for it. While perhaps less likely, you may get related and the same problems for a bra too big. Nil Einne (talk) 12:45, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

And the other thing I've never understood about comparing breasts to fruits is the fact that fruits are basically spherical and breasts are more hemispherical, especially when contained within a bra. So if a woman has apple sized breasts (I'll leave out the debate over how big of an apple we're talking about), does that mean that an entire apple would fit in her bra if put on a flat chested analogous person or does it mean that half an apple would more correctly simulate the size of her breast? Dismas|^(talk) 20:31, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

According to Brassiere measurement#Cup volume relative to band size,

Bra cup size is relative to the band size, as the actual volume of a woman's breast changes with the dimension of her chest. The volume of a brassiere cup is the same for 30D, 32C, 34B, and 36A. These related bra sizes of the same cup volume are called sister sizes. It is sometimes possible that two adjacent sister sizes will both fit a woman, since the cup volume is the same, while the band size can be adjusted to a small degree by using the hook and eye fasteners in the bra clasp.

So the fruit comparison doesn't work because it varies across band size (torso size). Duoduoduo (talk) 21:00, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

All good advice, but no one has yet mentioned the fact that many women don't actually wear the right size. Astronaut (talk) 17:49, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Might I suggest acquiring a measuring tape and using [this website]. BTW I'm one of the "rare" men mentioned on the web page linked by TammyMoet that has a list of all my beloved's clothing sizes. Roger (talk) 12:12, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

presidential fitness award requirements 1956 +/-

what were the test requirements for earning the presidential fitness award. I remember taking the test in 1956 or 195771.37.2.205 (talk) 20:33, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

February 11

Hopping a freight

In Nazi Germany and German-occupied countries during World War 2, what security measures (if any) were in place to stop people from catching rides on freight trains? (I'm sure they had some kind of measures in place, because that would have been a great way for guerrillas to move around the country and evade capture). 24.23.196.85 (talk) 02:02, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Soldiers yanking them off and shooting them in the face would probably have done it. --Jayron32 02:04, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Sure enough, but did they systematically check the trains for stowaways, and if so, in what manner? 24.23.196.85 (talk) 02:13, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

This is the responsibility of the train guard in Europe. Itsmejudith (talk) 02:55, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! That's what I hoped to hear. (And of course, the French/Belgian/Dutch/etc. train guards [conductors?] would only perform a perfunctory check, most of the time, right?) 24.23.196.85 (talk) 04:22, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

It might be worth pointing out that the WP article on freighthopping is written from a wholly American perspective and I'd suggest that in this instance this is because the practice is primarily American. The image of hobos leaping onto a slow-moving train and hitching a ride in a boxcar is a familiar one to me from US books and movies, but I can think of relatively few European examples from fiction. There also doesn't seem to be a European equivalent to the hobo. Someone with a better knowledge of rail transport than me may wish to comment on this, but my perception is that North American freight trains can often be quite slow-moving and that North American tracks are often easily accessible running through open areas without fencing or embankments or cuttings. This permits multiple points of access to the trains - in addition to the freight yards - for those who want to scramble aboard and stow away. European railways are more likely to be fenced off (in my experience) or more difficult to access due to physical geography (cuttings, embankments, position running at the back of private land etc.). I'm also of the impression that European trains are more likely to move quickly once away from the goods yard, leaving goods yards as the main place to access them. I am assuming that, in wartime, goods yards would have been well-guarded. I'm assuming also that the movie image of someone hopping a train in North America and climbing up into a boxcar with an already open door has some basis in reality. My observation of modern European trains - I cannot speak for those in the 1940s - is that goods vans usually have closed doors with some form of lock! So the practice of guarding goods yards and keeping goods wagons closed would have been fairly straightforward ways to avoid anyone "hopping a freight" in wartime Europe. Valiantis (talk) 05:16, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

I can assure you that freight train hopping is not merely an American phenomenon. During the 1930's depression, in Australia, it was a common way to travel. Some folk still did it in the 1960's. Freight trains move slowly, because it saves considerably on fuel, eliminates a lot of wear on bogies and tracks, and track maintenance becomes non-critical. And freight normally doesn't have things to do and doesn't get bored on long trips. In the depression, train crews tended to be sympathetic to to hobos getting a free ride - a matter of "there but for the grace of God go I". Box cars were not normally locked. I imagine similar things happened in other countries, for the same reasons - i.e., out of work and travelling to find it, or at least a new source of handouts. Wickwack 121.221.223.185 (talk) 04:42, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

The French resistance had a network among railway workers, but their main task was to blow up trains and, where possible, lines and bridges. They did not move around the country by stowing away on trains. That would have invited capture, followed by torture and the revealing of secrets. The Nazi occupied countries were very heavily policed, not least by the SS. Itsmejudith (talk) 08:02, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

I think Valiantis has got this right. Most of the WWII escape stories I have read, where train travel was used, see escapers travelling in passenger carriages, usually having purchased a ticket (using either fake money sent in parcels from home, or money bartered with guards for cigarettes or chocolate). The reason is probably like Valiantis says, that in Europe it's more difficult to get on to a train whilst it's moving, and that when freight trains are not moving they would be in a defended freight-yard. Given the choice between trying to outwit a civilian ticket collector, who would likely be unarmed, or a bunch of machine-gun wielding soldiers guarding a rail yard, I'd suggest that the former would be the more attractive prospect. That's not to say, however, that escapees didn't try to 'ride the rails' - I definitely recall reading about someone trying it, but I can't recall which story I saw it in right now. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 14:35, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

In France, all boxcars (or "goods wagons" if you're British) were built to a standard design, which could be used by the military in time of war. Each had a sign stencilled on the outside; "hommes : 40, chevaux en long : 8" ("40 men or 8 horses lengthways").[1] If memory serves, there was a big steel locking bar on the door. Alansplodge (talk) 18:56, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, everyone! So, the sum total of this is, once that E-boat hits that mine, my characters won't be able to hop a freight out of Brittany, as originally planned. (I thought about having them stow away while that Lorient-Cologne mixed freight was standing on a siding, but the Quimper-Rennes line has double tracks throughout.) And that means they'll have to steal a truck or something.  :-( 24.23.196.85 (talk) 00:26, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Well, if you're writing a story, it's your story and your rules. For realism, though, I'd avoid the characters stowing away on a train American-hobo style. Actually, I'd also avoid them stealing a truck - most of the available trucks would be under German control, so stealing one would be a sure fire way of getting a bunch of angry, gun-wielding Wehrmacht on their tail. A better idea might be to steal a bicycle, which is less conspicuous and would not generate such a hulabaloo if stolen. Alternatively, if you need them to travel quickly, they could jump into a train from a bridge - either into a freight wagon or the coal tender of a passenger locomotive. The only problem then would be how to get out again - perhaps if they jumped into the coal tender they could get out when the fireman is preoccupied with taking on water, preferably at a small, out of the way place, in the dark.

You could maybe also try reading a few escape stories, to see how 'the pros' did it. A good place to start might be Great Escape Stories by Eric Williams (writer), which has a number of short stories from WWII. Williams himself participated in the Wooden Horse escape, but this book contains many other stories of escape and evasion. You'll probably find the stories of escape from 'standard' camps better for your purpose than stories about Colditz Castle - escapes from Colditz were somewhat atypical in that the camp was a long way behind German lines, and the length of time a typical prisoner might spend there encouraged much more elaborate escape plans, involving disguise and counterfeit documents. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 13:21, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks a million, Cucumber! I can't have them steal a bicycle because there's too many of them (twelve men and one woman, and two of them are sick/wounded), but I sure can have them hop into a freight car from a bridge, as you suggested (the healthy guys jumping first, and then catching the sick/wounded guys). As for how to get out again, perhaps they could cut a hole in the car floor, and then slide out of it onto the tracks while the train is moving slowly (Solzhenitsyn wrote about an old man who escaped from a gulag in just such a manner in The Gulag Archipelago). What do you think? 24.23.196.85 (talk) 03:34, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

They are clearly near the coast (the E-boat blew up) - so could they steal a boat instead? Maybe even stow away on one? I doubt that a small fishing boat would be guarded all that well. Is there a convenient river near their destination? SteveBaker (talk) 14:05, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Too far -- they have to cross all of France from Lorient to their next objective in Lille (and one of them is seriously sick, which I can do nothing about because it's an important plot element). They need a quicker form of transportation than a fishing boat which can only make five to ten knots at the most, and which would have to round Brittany and the Cotentin Peninsula before it can even assume a straight course toward the objective. Plus, stealing a fishing boat was their original plan (but they were betrayed and found an ambush waiting for them at the pier, so they had to take over an E-boat instead) -- I don't want them to steal a second boat right after the first. 24.23.196.85 (talk) 06:37, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Then it's clearly time to steal an aging Junkers Ju 52 that's rusting away in the corner of a nearby airfield and reveal that one of the team was a former pilot with Swissair in the 1930's. Since he's flown this type of aircraft a million times before and is a genius mechanic who spent many an hour tinkering with the engines while stuck in distant alpine airstrips - he can obviously get it minimally airworthy in a matter of hours if the rest of the team can only steal a few key parts and some fuel. I believe that plane is just large enough to get your crew in there. Of course it's not going to stay aloft for long before something fails in a more or less terminal fashion and they have to put the thing down someplace short of their destination...but that's life - right? SteveBaker (talk) 17:58, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Actually, one of them is a pilot with the US Army Air Force who had been shot down over enemy lines just a few days before. And another one is a trucker, so he would probably be good at field repairs, too. (BTW, these two characters hate each other's guts -- but I won't tell you why.  ;-) Your idea sounds pretty good -- maybe first steal an E-boat, then a plane, and then hop a train after the plane crashes? 24.23.196.85 (talk) 02:24, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

On second thought, though, a Ju-52 would not have been obsolete at the time, and would not be "rusting away in the corner of a nearby airfield" -- in fact, it would probably be mobilized for the war effort, so stealing it would run into the same kind of potential problems as stealing a truck (only more so). On the other hand, perhaps some old French clunker of a Wibault 280 might be stealable without attracting too much attention? 24.23.196.85 (talk) 22:38, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

history of human experimentation in the usa

I am looking for all the information relating to human experimentation in the united states only, where would I locate all of this information? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.215.146.165 (talk) 16:10, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

I searched, and found that Wikipedia has two articles that I think will be helpful to you. Human subject research is not US-exclusive, but does contain information about human experimentation in the United States. There's also Unethical human experimentation in the United States. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 16:25, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

I'm not quite sure how to interpret the Q. Do you mean experimentation on humans by others, as FisherQueen took it, or experimentation by humans on themselves, or some other type of experimentation done by humans ? StuRat (talk) 16:30, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

White lube powder ?

I have a sliding/folding closet door which binds up at the bottom, so would like to lubricate it. Unfortunately, there's white shag carpet both inside and outside the closet, so any dark lubricants, like graphite powder, are out. I could use white grease or wax, but that would pick up dust in time and become dark, then stain the carpet. So, I was thinking some type of white lubricant powder might be best. Would talcum powder work ? Any other suggestions ? StuRat (talk) 17:13, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Not enough info. Is there metal a rail/track with a slider mechanism on the bottom,top, or both? Using talc is probably a bad idea, it will attract moisture and get gooey, not lubricate. SemanticMantis (talk) 17:38, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Plastic slider in metal track. Top is metal slider in metal track, and it doesn't bind up there, as the weight is on the bottom, and friction is higher at the bottom, too. StuRat (talk) 17:42, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Ok, then my first line of attack would be to diagnose the problem. Lube of any sort will not fix the problem, only treat the symptoms. The most likely scenarios are: 1) bottom track is no longer straight or "true", either in the main shape, or the flanges. You could inexpensively replace the track, or pull it out and try to straighten it. 2) Door frame is no longer true. You probably can't fix that if you are asking this question, but you may be able to get clever with some planing, sanding, or wedges. 3) Build up of dust/dirt in the track. Simple cleaning with a few drops of oil (or ski wax) may help. SemanticMantis (talk) 17:46, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Actually I know the problem, but fixing it the "right way" isn't an option. Here are diagrams (top view):

HALF OPEN (CURRENT DESIGN):

 Fixed
 Pivot    Slider
 o==========o======= Rail
  \        /
   \ Doors/ 
    \    /    
     \  /
     +\/+ Handles

FULLY OPEN (CURRENT DESIGN):

 oo================= Rail
 || 
 || 
 || Doors   
 ||
+||+ Handles

The problem here is that when fully opened, the angle from the handle to the rail is too much, so that most of the force is trying to move the slider at a right angle to the rail, rather than along it. Adding a handle closer to the rail would fix this:

HALF OPEN (WITH ADDITIONAL HANDLE):

 Fixed
 Pivot    Slider
 o==========o======= Rail
  \        /+ New Handle
   \ Doors/ 
    \    /    
     \  /
     +\/+ Handles

FULLY OPEN (WITH ADDITIONAL HANDLE):

 oo================= Rail
 ||+ New Handle
 || 
 || Doors   
 ||
+||+ Handles

However, it's my mom's house, and she doesn't want that. So, reducing friction is the next best option. StuRat (talk) 18:12, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

WD-40? That'd be my choice. See also Dry lubricant, particularly Hexagonal boron nitride, also known as 'white graphite'. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 18:20, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Do home improvement stores carry boron nitride, or would I have to buy it online ? StuRat (talk) 18:48, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

No idea. I'd never heard of it until 15 minutes ago. However, it seems that it is a tad expensive, running at €117 for 50g. Having said that, I found it available on Amazon at a more sensible price - $10 for 0.4oz. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 18:57, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Aha - got it! What you want is Panef powdered white lubricant - "For use on metal, wood, plastic, rubber and leather. Ideal for many applications including: windows, door locks, sliding tracks, cabinets and zippers." Available from Sears. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 19:13, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Looks good. But before I buy it, do we know that it's better than talcum powder ? StuRat (talk) 19:16, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict)It's worth trying talcum powder (I've used cheap talc in similar situations), but you will probably have to keep topping it up. I assume you've checked that the rail is clear of debris and fibre from the carpet, and that the plastic slider hasn't become deformed. If the door is painted or polished, then you might be able to add a suction-cup handle as a temporary measure without marking the door. Some adhesives claim to be removable without leaving a mark. Try these alternatives at your own risk since I don't want to be responsible for incurring parental wrath. Dbfirs 18:33, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

The suction cup handle might work, I'll see if I can find one. Of course, lubricant would still help, even with the new handle. StuRat (talk) 18:48, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Avoid the WD 40 on plastic. That powdered white lubricant sounds good. I've used silicon grease in plastic hinges before. You only need a tiny amount. Dmcq (talk) 21:44, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

SemanticMantis mentioned ski wax and I think that's a good idea. I would try rubbing an appropriately whittled-down paraffin candle onto the surface. The paraffin coating may act as a lubricant. Bus stop (talk) 01:51, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks so far, everyone. I'll put talcum powder on first, and see if that does the trick. If not, then I think I'll try the powder from Sears. If it still needs more lube, I'll try wax. StuRat (talk) 01:58, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

A trick to assembling tight fitting mitered corners for stretcher bars is to first rub wax on the areas of the wood that have to fit together, hence I consider the wax (paraffin) a lubricant. Bus stop (talk) 02:18, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

In addition to lubrication, that might also fill in gaps to keep a loose frame from rattling. StuRat (talk) 02:27, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Collapsed assorted off-topic rudeness.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
I keep having these thoughts that this question is StuRat's subtle, roundabout way of telling us about the closet he's out of (well, he's not in it, unless his computer's in there, so he must be out of it; it's obvious when you think about it). I've resisted sharing these thoughts here so far, but I wonder how long I'll be able to keep on resisting.  :) -- Jack of Oz [[User talk:JackofOz#top|<font face=" Stu has a "shag carpet"?! Most people use a bed. I have never heard of anyone having a specific carpet for it. KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 03:04, 12 February 2013 (UTC) What Stu probably hasn't mentioned yet is that it is the squeaking sound of the opening and closing door is driving him crazy, hence the need to lubricate the bugger. Bus stop (talk) 03:44, 12 February 2013 (UTC) Of course! He's looking for lube recommendations! How could I have missed that clue? Gzuckier (talk) 06:51, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Powdered teflon used to be available in those little squeezy tubes for locks, as an improvement over graphite; I haven't seen it sold as such for a while, so of course now i hoard it every time I see it, which is sold as lubricant for those (US) boy scout wooden car race project items, (at Michaels crafts stores (in the US) is where I see it). Kind of hit or miss finding it there too, so maybe it's bad for you or something. Talcum powder is a decent lube, its Achilles heel is that it absorbs humidity and gets sticky. Gzuckier (talk) 06:45, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Not to disagree with any of the above, but you might also try spraying clear furniture polish on the track: I've found this to work excellently on curtain rails when the sliding curtain hooks start to bind up. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 84.21.143.150 (talk) 14:16, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Another thought: I'd guess the sticking slider is rectangular; file it into an elliptical shape, or at least round the corners off, to convince it to slide instead of digging in. Gzuckier (talk) 15:45, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

How about candle wax (from a white candle of course)? Astronaut (talk) 17:37, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

UPDATE: Tried talcum powder, and it's not enough. The door vibrates back and forth when attempting to close it, but not when opening it. I may try candle wax next, then boron nitride, and perhaps rounding off the edges (although that would require removing the door). StuRat (talk) 05:48, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Side question for Stu--How'd you make 'em diagrams?

Did you actually sit there and compose those fixed-width character diagrams by hand, or do you have a program that helps do that? μηδείς (talk) 04:09, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

I composed it manually. ASCII art isn't that hard, once you're used to it. Before I was able to write programs with real pixel graphics, I did quite a bit of this type. It can still be useful to display a low res image, say of a graph, to check it before rendering it. StuRat (talk) 04:12, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Just to prove how far this can go, watch this. These guys did this in a text editor. --Jayron32 04:35, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

February 12

Are we plaqued by another scam ?

Advertisement for Easy Health Options by Dr. Michael Cutler.

Is this product about plaque removed from body truthful and legitimate — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.127.29.173 (talk) 00:18, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

I added a title. StuRat (talk) 00:56, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Is this what you mean ? [2]. If so, see chelation_therapy#Heart_disease. StuRat (talk) 01:01, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

copyright and intellectual property

Why is it that copyright does not cover the idea itself? Does it mean that if I have created a better mousetrap, I don't have to ask permission from the moustrap's inventor? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.52.145.100 (talk) 09:17, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

For your first question, have you read Idea–expression divide?

For your second question, you need to understand the difference between copyright and patent: the "idea" for a better mousetrap, if it is inventive and novel etc, can be protected by a patent. So could (at the time) the original inventor of the mousetrap. Copyright is not for inventions. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 09:35, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Historically intellectual property controls have been divided up into a few specific different forms, each of which have their own requirements and lengths of monopoly:

• Copyright is used for expressions, not ideas. Today is requires almost no effort to acquire one (other than the production of the expression itself) — they are mostly automatic. (Some small exceptions exist.) Their length of time was originally quite fixed but at the moment is very long to near infinite in some countries.
• Patents are used for ideas, not expressions. They are for inventions, methods, and any other idea that produces some kind of practical outcome, with "practical" being pretty broadly defined. They require some effort and some expense to acquire. Their length of time is very fixed — 14 years or so.
• Trademarks are used for brands, names, and anything that identifies a specific version of a product (Coca-Cola versus Pepsi, for example). They require not very much effort or expense to acquire, but more than a copyright. Their length of time is basically unlimited, so long as they are currently in use — as long as Coca-Cola exists you'll never be able to make a soda called Coca-Cola, unless it becomes totally "generic."

A blurry exception to all three is the design patent, which is a patent on an expression largely related to brand identity. I find these confusing, personally, but felt the exception was worth mentioning...

The goal of the first two of these is to guarantee incentive for creation of new intellectual property (through the giving of monopolies) and (ideally) to balance that against the negative aspects of total monopoly. (With copyright, that aspect has withered away to a considerable degree over time.) As for the "why" doesn't copyright cover ideas, the reason is that covering an idea is a HUGE amount of monopoly power. As such, idea control is more or less limited to technical inventions of some sort — and not, say, to generic book plots or story ideas. Even then there are many who claim it is too much power. Expression is a far more limited thing to control, even if it too is quite a lot of power. --Mr.98 (talk) 14:57, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

You missed one:

• Trade Secret - used for all sorts of thing - but often for things that you want to protect - but don't want to reveal. The exact formula for Coke Cola - for example. If you patent such a formula, you have to publish it for the world to read - even if they don't have the legal right to copy it. There are some special legal rights conferred on trade secrets.

SteveBaker (talk) 16:25, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Good point. It should be stated, I suppose, that trade secrets only apply the ideas — they are basically the flip side of patents. The choice between a trade secret and a letter patent has a lot to do with the composition of the "idea" in question. Obviously something that can be quickly reverse-engineered is not a good product for trying trade secret protection. My understanding of the "legal rights" you get from a trade secret is that other people still aren't allowed to explicitly steal them from you (they are still property), but that if they figure it out independently, you are sunk. But I may not be up to date on this. --Mr.98 (talk) 21:24, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Forceps in childbirth is interesting as the family who invented them kept forceps as a trade secret for 150 years. You wouldn't have thought it could be possible. Now there was a bad trade off for everybody else, how many babies could have been saved if that was a patent instead. Dmcq (talk) 14:07, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

financial management

xyz india limited share is expected to touch rs-450 one year from now. the company is expected to declare a dividend of rs-25 per share .what is the price at which an investor would be willing to buy if his or her required rate of return is 15 percentage? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1.38.17.165 (talk) 10:30, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

This looks like homework. If you would like us to help you, please tell us how much you already understand, and what information you need to be able to answer the question. We will NOT be able to simply provide the answer, but we may be able to show you some information that can help you find it yourself. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 11:00, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

As currently stated, there isn't enough information to answer the question. When is the expected dividend expected to be paid? --Tango (talk) 12:34, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

And what is the current price ? StuRat (talk) 16:04, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

You don't need to know the current price. The question is what the maximum price the investor would be willing to pay is. You need to know the current price to know if they would buy or not, but the question doesn't ask that. --Tango (talk) 20:11, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

I think the question imply dividend return for the year is rs-25. If that's the case I'll give you a hint: The return is 450 minus the price you pay plus dividend. Personally I don't think this is a homework question but whatever. Royor (talk) 03:18, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

How do you know whether the rs-25, even if it is for the year, is in present value or future value? Whether or not you discount by 15% makes a significant difference. Plus, if this was reailty, to make a reliable prediction surely you'd need to know certain things about the sample from which the rs-450 estimate comes from - most people are assymetrically risk averse, so it matters whether the consensus estimate is based on say lots of low estimates and one outlier high estimate. --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 10:55, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Because the way the question is worded I interpret it as a "unreal and simplified" question - sort of like the use of "frictionless pulley" in a physic question. Given the fact the question ignore transaction cost and future stock price prediction being horribly unreliable (plus tons of other stuff), I see it as "0.15x = blah blah blah, solve for x" type of question. Yes your points are valid: IF this is a real-life situation you would NOT use the answer base on this to make stock purchase. Royor (talk) 02:10, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Storm surge

In February 2013 nor'easter, it talks about deep snow falling and strong winds. It also says "Boston experienced a storm surge of 4.2 ft (1.3 m), its fourth-highest." What is a "storm surge"? Is this related to "weather" or to sea conditions or ... ? -- SGBailey (talk) 11:44, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Does Storm surge help? - Cucumber Mike (talk) 11:51, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Yes. I've edited the article to link it. Thanks. -- SGBailey (talk) 12:37, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

I like the lead picture there with the breaker coming towards the house. Scary! A wave out to sea would normally be smaller and they build up as they come on shore. Dmcq (talk) 14:15, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Note that the effects of a storm surge can be worsened by high waves, and either worsened or lessened by high tide or low tide. Precipitation also combines with these to cause flooding. StuRat (talk) 15:54, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Yep. An important thing to remember when discussing these events is whether you're talking "storm surge" -- that is, the actual water level measured against the predicted non-storm water level -- or "storm tide", the actual water level measured against mean higher high water (or some other high-water benchmark). See, for instance, this post at Weather Underground, where Dr. Masters notes that the two large storm surges to hit Boston in the past 6 months (Sandy and Nemo, each over 4 feet) weren't historically remarkable from a flooding standpoint because they both happened at low water. On the other hand, Sandy's effects were so severe in the New Jersey / NYC area because there the storm surge coincided with high water, resulting in a high storm tide. — Lomn 16:52, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

What stops me shadowing Warren Buffett's trading?

With some ups and downs, Warren Buffett has been a hugely successful stock picker for decades. He closed his partnership to new entrants long back, but does that matter given secret stock purchases don't exist (right?). What is stopping me just ordering a broker to make trades mimicing every move he makes, albeit investing less than he does (presumably)? And if nothing is stopping me, then why don't lots of people do this? 46.30.55.66 (talk) 15:04, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Well, one one level, you've got to remember that Berkshire Hathaway deliberately tries to keep its own investments private (by using complex subsidiary purchases) until it has bought (or sold) as much of the stock as it wants to. I suspects that this confounds mimicry for a decent period of time. The other thing to remember is that these days, a considerable amount of BH's investment comes in the form of buyouts, which are very difficult to mimic for obvious reasons. But I'd like to know more myself. - Jarry1250 ^{[Deliberation needed]} 15:43, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Your trades would necessarily be after his. Note that after a large purchase is made, the price is likely to go up a bit, and after a large sale, to go down a bit. This is a result of supply and demand. So, your results wouldn't be as good as his. He also likely has reduced fees per share, since he is trading on large volumes. So, while it might still be possible to make a profit, it might well be less than Warren. Of course, if many people did as you suggest, that would lead to a speculation bubble after he invested in something, and a crash after he sold it. This is one reason why he keeps such trades secret. At a certain level of disruption, the Securities and Exchange Commission would get involved, and perhaps stop him from trading, due to the market instability it causes (I'm not sure if they have the power to do so unilaterally or would require an act of Congress). StuRat (talk) 16:00, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

This is, as it happens, one of the plot elements of J. K. Galbraith's novel A Tenured Professor - someone becomes famous for successful stock trading (he has a rather cynical enthusiasm-based model) and, to forestall criticism, declares that he will publicise all of his future dealings. The inevitable result is that when he announces he has bought shares in X, so do a horde of others; the price is driven up, and his foresight is proven ;-). Andrew Gray (talk) 20:19, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

That kind of scenario may represent an unfair market manipulation and thus be against the rules. --Jayron32 20:29, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

You can, or at least could, do this with the owners of The Motley Fool. They had a couple accounts where they would announce what they were going to buy and sell. Many many people followed them blindly and have done quite well. Dismas|^(talk) 20:32, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Side point, say you work for a finace firm that trades well like Warren Buffet, and you have direct information of the trades. Is there anything stopping you mirroring the trades of the firm in your own portfolio? If so, again why don't more people do this? 80.254.147.164 (talk) 11:07, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

I wonder if that qualifies as insider trading. In this case, it's not inside info on the company, but rather on large upcoming trades. StuRat (talk) 15:34, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Yes, it's called front running (John M. Baker refers to it below) and it's illegal. - Jarry1250 ^{[Deliberation needed]} 22:55, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Doesn't that apply to sharing information about the company to external sources? If you happened to own some shares which you saw the company selling huge amounts of, would you really be expected to not use this information to do the same and pretend as if you didn't know? 80.254.147.164 (talk) 15:43, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Financial firms generally consider their trading information to be proprietary. Trading on it is a fireable offense. John M Baker (talk) 22:37, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Public attention to its trading activities is a serious concern for Berkshire Hathaway (Buffett's company), particularly when it is accumulating or reducing a large exposure and worried about front-running. As an institutional investment manager, Berkshire Hathaway must make quarterly reports of its equity holdings on Form 13F. You can see its most recent 13F here, and if you want to follow Berkshire Hathaway's SEC filings generally they are here. The SEC in 2003 rejected a request to keep a Berkshire Hathaway acquisition program confidential.

So the short answer is yes, you can attempt to duplicate Buffett's investment strategy, at least to the extent that he is investing in freely tradable public equities. Of course, Form 13F is already 45 days out of date when it is filed, and the market will have moved in that time, so duplicating his strategy won't let you duplicate his investment results. As a small investor with things to do other than watch for 13F filings, you won't even do as well as other people trying to duplicate Buffett's strategy, since they will have purchased before you. John M Baker (talk) 22:53, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

korean war air plane spotters inside the usa

korean war air plane spotters inside the usa do you have any info for this ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.44.57.203 (talk) 20:30, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

The Ground Observer Corps operated during the Korean War, due to fears of a possible Soviet attack. Apparently around a half-million volunteers participated during the '50s until improvements in radar finally rendered the practice obsolete. — Lomn 21:35, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

UK masters programme start dates/starting Master before completion of Bachelor

Hi guys,

I have a problem. I am currently completing my Bachelor in Psychology at the Open University. I will probably have my last exam on October the 14th (it will probably take an additional two months before I get back the results). I wanted to start a Masters course in clinical psychology at a physical UK university straight afterwards but have now found out that these usually start in September. I have thought about using the time to get in some work experience but I would really like to get cracking as soon as possible. Is there any way I could get into the course despite not actually having fully completed my degree? I'm finding the whole situation really frustrating and would appreciate any hints or tips :)217.88.222.170 (talk) 22:41, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

The answer is find the school you intend to attend, call them directly, and ask them what you are asking here. Someone at that school will know what their admissions policies are. --Jayron32 23:23, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

When I did my Master's (at Bradford) I didn't actually meet the entrance requirements, as I got a III in my first degree. So they accepted me onto the Diploma course, with the expectation that I would transfer to the Master's during the year. But I've no idea how widespread this practice is, so I echo Jayron's reply. --ColinFine (talk) 00:40, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Get your skates on! Go to the websites, find the contact details, email or phone round, because there are application deadlines coming up. The universities will be happy to provide the information you need. There are open days that you should think of attending, because you can meet staff who may be able to make exceptions like the one Colin had. Talk to your OU tutor about it. Itsmejudith (talk) 11:00, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

February 13

fixed and variable cost of Copeland's of New Orleans

what are some fixed and variable cost of Copeland's of New Orleans — Preceding unsigned comment added by Biggrza (talk • contribs) 05:11, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Please do your own homework.

Welcome to the Wikipedia Reference Desk. Your question appears to be a homework question. I apologize if this is a misinterpretation, but it is our aim here not to do people's homework for them, but to merely aid them in doing it themselves. Letting someone else do your homework does not help you learn nearly as much as doing it yourself. Please attempt to solve the problem or answer the question yourself first. If you need help with a specific part of your homework, feel free to tell us where you are stuck and ask for help. If you need help grasping the concept of a problem, by all means let us know.--Jayron32 05:32, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

In case anyone is wondering, Copeland's of New Orleans appears to be a restaurant: [3]. People from all over the world read these Q's, and, unless that's an extremely famous restaurant, I doubt if people in the UK will have a clue what you were asking about. That said, all restaurants will have fairly similar sets of fixed and variable costs. StuRat (talk) 05:38, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Do US schools ask homewrok questions about local restaurants? --Lgriot (talk) 09:33, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Fixed and variable costs are economics 101 material. I dare say there's nothing specific about that particular restaurant, it's just an example. - Jarry1250 ^{[Deliberation needed]} 12:23, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Agreed. It's a common teaching technique to change a generic question into one with some relevance to the students, such as by including local sites. StuRat (talk) 03:37, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Food associated with festivals

I've got this big idea of trying out new foods (and new ways of cooking) by spending a year cooking and eating as many foods from as many cultures as I can. I thought the cleverest way to do this would be to celebrate each festival that cultures celebrate, and I thought I'd use you very clever people to help me think of festivals that I might have missed. So far I have

• Burns night - Haggis, neeps and tatties
• Chinese new year - lots of ideas
• Shrove Tuesday - pancakes
• Good Friday - Fish
• Easter Sunday - Lamb or Chicken
• Diwali - not sure what food would be best
• Eid - again not sure what food would be best
• Thanksgiving - Turkey and other american trimmings (yams, pumpkin pie spring to mind as things we don't have over here often)
• Tom Bawcock's Eve - Stargazy pie... if I can stomach it!
• Christmas - Turkey or Goose

I'm currently taking notes of any other festivals I hear of as they come up, but if anyone knows something I'm obviously missing, do please let me know! Worm^TT(talk) 10:47, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Some wag once observed that every Jewish festival can be summarised as "they tried to kill us, they failed... let's eat!" While that's not exactly true, there's an awful lot of foods that are associated with specific Jewish festivals, and if one widens one's perspective to take in the various cultures of Jewry beyond the most widely known (a few simple examples: Sephardi Jews, Italian Jews and Yemenite Jews) the options are mind-boggling. WP:WHAAOE: see Jewish cuisine#Shabbat and holiday dishes, which has some of the customs recorded, but is unfortunately far from comprehensive even of Ashkenazi traditions. NB My father knew a man who, every Saturday, would eat a different food symbolic in some way of that week's Torah reading. My dad, who loved his food, always regretted not getting the man to write it all down before he died. --Dweller (talk) 11:04, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

You could try Ramadan, fasting during daylight hours and breaking the fast with a date. --TammyMoet (talk) 11:06, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

I wish I could break the fast with a date, but they always find an excuse to go home after dinner. Gzuckier (talk) 18:14, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Not sure why you have lamb and chicken for Easter, see Category:Easter food for ideas. For Cinco de Mayo you could have turkey mole poblano - i.e. basted with a chocolate and chilli sauce. Dmcq (talk) 11:20, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

I don't know about chicken, but lamb is definitely a traditional Easter food. That it is absent from our category is the fault of the category, not Worm. Roast lamb fits with the whole Lamb of God/Paschal Sacrifice thing. In the UK, usually served roasted with mint sauce and peas (among other things). 86.163.209.18 (talk) 11:43, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Roast the Lamb of God and eat him with mint? I guess that beats transubstantiation without the roasting. ;-) Dmcq (talk) 14:46, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Well, that is what you do with the Paschal sacrifice... :) 86.163.209.18 (talk) 14:48, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

In fact see category:Holiday foods for a number of different holidays. Dmcq (talk) 11:23, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Aha! That was what I was after Worm^TT(talk) 11:52, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

A Swedish Midsummer Smörgåsbord is absolutely delicious, and would go some way to filling the summer-long gap you seem to have so far. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 11:54, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

If you want to try the herrings soused herring and mustard pickled herring are usually the best bet for beginners. Sjö (talk) 07:58, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for all the suggestions so far. I'm more of a person who like to eat rather than fast though so I might give Ramadan a miss ;) Worm^TT(talk) 11:52, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Ham is also associated with Thanksgiving and/or Christmas. Not so much with Hanukah or Ramadan, though. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 11:57, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

In the US, ham is associated with Easter, and not chicken or lamb. Ham can also be had at Christmas, but Thanksgiving requires a turkey. StuRat (talk) 14:40, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Good Friday is supposed to be a day of fasting; while no meat is consumed, it's not an excuse for a fish feast. However, in some places (e.g. Vienna) they do have a fish feast for Ash Wednesday, which sems to go against the whole idea of Lent. For Eid al-Fitr, there is no specific dish, except that sweets are usually eaten the first morning. On Eid al-Adha, whatever animal has been sacrificed is then eaten (often lamb, but sometimes goat or beef, depending on which part of the world you're in). there are also all sorts of traditional Ramadan dishes (varies by country) that you could try, even without fasting. With regard to more secular holidays, cherry pie is associated with Presidents Day. You could also celebrate various National Days with dishes from the celebrating country (e.g. hamburgers cooked on the barbecue fot the 4th of July, blanquette de veau or cassoulet on Bastille Day, etc.) --Xuxl (talk) 12:00, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Pasta every Friday. Mitch Ames (talk) 12:10, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

For Christmas, the Canadian French eat tortiere. --Jayron32 13:24, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

The English were always trying to find an excuse to eat cake during Lent, and came to the conclusion that it was fine as long as they had a religious theme. Thus we have Simnel cake on Mothering Sunday also known as Refreshment Sunday. Also we have Hot cross buns on Good Friday, surely the most solemn and austere day in the Christian calender, so you obviously need a nice cup of tea and a sticky bun to help you through it. British supermarkets now sell hot cross buns between Christmas and Easter, but Good Friday is the proper day. Alansplodge (talk) 14:22, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

We always got round that by making them on Good Friday, but not eating them until breakfast on Holy Saturday :) Certainly made the fasting harder, and they tasted even more delicious when you ate them! And, of course, despite its traditional link with Mothering Sunday, most now associate Simnal cake with Easter itself. 86.163.209.18 (talk) 14:47, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

If the wound isn't still too fresh, the US Independence Day on the 4th of July features hot dogs, hamburgers, and other BBQ/picnic foods, like potato salad, cole slaw, corn on the cob, chili or baked beans, etc. If you don't currently do barbeque, this certainly would be a new way of cooking (while a full sized gas grill is quite expensive, a small charcoal grill can be had quite cheaply). StuRat (talk) 14:44, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

That would be grilling you are talking about, Stu. Barbecuing is the one with the low indirect heat and smoke (and hard to do on a small grill). Rmhermen (talk) 15:18, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

The Mexican Day of the Dead features sweets made to look like skulls and skeletons. You could also include some general Mexican foods then, and perhaps a piñata. StuRat (talk) 14:50, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Pinatas are associated with the Christmas season though. Rmhermen (talk) 15:03, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Not just Xmas, though, in the US at least, according to our article: "Piñatas are used for birthday parties, Christmas and Cinco de Mayo celebrations." The celebration could be held on Cinco de Mayo, instead, but then the skull-themed sweets would be out of place. StuRat (talk) 15:28, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanksgiving should also include mashed potatoes with gravy and baked sweet potatoes with butter, cinnamon, and brown sugar (or perhaps sweet potato pie). Green bean casserole is another favorite, as is cranberry sauce and stuffing (I don't recommend cooking it inside the turkey, as that can cause food poisoning). StuRat (talk) 14:50, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Pancakes for Shrove Tuesday? How about Fasnacht (German-American) or Pączki (Polish). Make sure you get sweet potatoes for Thanksgiving, not real yams. Rmhermen (talk) 15:00, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

See The Olney Pancake Race. Alansplodge (talk) 15:20, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Many holidays have traditional sweets as well as main dishes: King cake for carnival, letterbanket for Saint Nicholas' eve, dates for Ramadan, Buche de Noel for Christmas. Rmhermen (talk) 15:18, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

St. Patrick's day has corned beef and cabbage (in the U.S. at least). Hoppin' John is a (American Southern) New Year's dish. Rmhermen (talk) 15:25, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Note that after an immensely long previous discussion, the Ref Desk established that Irish-American "corned beef" translates as Jewish "salt beef" in the UK and Ireland, where corned beef only comes in tin cans from South America. Alansplodge (talk) 18:31, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

...and green beer on St. Pat's. StuRat (talk) 15:29, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Although in Ireland, St Patrick's Day beer is generally black and white. Alansplodge (talk) 02:29, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

For Divali, homemade sweets are typical, made with flour or ground nut, so they taste rather like a sweet pastry or marzipan. See Laddu and Barfi. Dbfirs 17:03, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

And Halloween, of course.... and candy corn and pumpkin pie for Halloween and Thanksgiving. and Peeps for Easter and candy canes and chocolate santas and reindeer etc for Christmas, and chocolate bunnies and chickens for Easter. Also, many traditional Italian families in this area have a fish course Christmas, with the obvious symbolism I assume. Although there seems to be a preponderance of eels, which I don't quite see the symbolism of. And on Christmas, as a humourous cliche Jews go out for Chinese food. Gzuckier (talk) 18:14, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

In the U.S., the cook-out is a traditional meal on Independence Day, typically grilled cheeseburgers and sausages (hot dogs, bratwurst, kielbasa) and standard side dishes like potato salad or baked beans. --Jayron32 18:41, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

These are all going to vary a lot from country to country and even within countries regionally and by subculture. Just for example, in my family, roast beef was traditional for Christmas, lamb for Easter (though we are American), and of course turkey for Thanksgiving. Other families have ham at one of these (though I never heard of ham for Thanksgiving). I know that in (parts of) Italy, seafood is traditional for Christmas Eve. For Eid al-Fitr, goat is traditional in some places, but I'm sure not everywhere in the Muslim world. Marco polo (talk) 20:34, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Speaking of Kings Cakes and Italian families, Panettone and Pandoro for Christmas. Gzuckier (talk) 20:49, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Here's a link to Chinese New Year food superstitions http://recipes.howstuffworks.com/10-chinese-new-year-food-superstitions1.htm and of course heart shaped sweets ,chocolates or cakes for Valentine's Day Hotclaws (talk) 03:57, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

• Ham for Easter and pyrohy for Christmas Eve are traditional among Rusyns. My mother also makes meatloaf for Christmas (with fried pyrohy from the leftovers of the day before) and corned beef on mischief night. μηδείς (talk) 19:40, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

In the US South, Black-eyed peas are eaten on New Year's Day. The more you eat, the luckier the year will be. RNealK (talk) 05:00, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

• Thank you everyone for all the suggestions. I'll try and compile them all into a list... and then have a go at this in 2014. Might even blog it! Worm^TT(talk) 10:01, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia articles

Resolved

This may be the wrong place to ask, but it's worth a try. If I want to go back and determine which articles I "created" (i.e. started), is there a tool to do that? Thank you, all. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 20:55, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Click "Contributions" at the top of the screen. Scroll down to see a menu at the bottom. Select "articles created" from that menu. --Jayron32 21:21, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

And for other questions in that vein, we have the Wikipedia Help Desk, which concentrates on questions about how to use Wikipedia. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 21:44, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Thank you both. :) ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:02, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

The Dark Side awaits: Wikipedia:List of Wikipedians by article count. Clarityfiend (talk) 23:42, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

However, the "articles created" list misses the ones that used to be redirects and that you changed into articles. Duoduoduo (talk) 23:30, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Close enough for my purposes. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:45, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

This tool includes all options regarding redirects or not. --Saddhiyama (talk) 09:21, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Be warned that it truncates the results to the first 100. If you've done more than that and you want the full list, there's a link for you to click, but it took literally 10 minutes for it to return my full list. It includes not just the articles and redirects etc you've created from scratch, but every page move you've ever done because that creates a redirect in the process. My full list was 1679 items, which is not huge by computing standards, but it still took that long. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 19:41, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Yes, that shows redirects you've created; but as Duoduoduo points out, it doesn't show articles you've written over already-existing redirects. For instance, I wrote the article Cosmographia (Bernard Silvestris) over what had been a redirect, but the tool has no way to know that I "created" that article. Deor (talk) 21:43, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Those utilities are not very fast. But once you've got the entire list, you can copy-and-paste into a document, and then organize it however you want to. In short, you only have to do it once, or at least not very often. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:48, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

February 14

Ballistic protection of vehicles

In light of the recent Chris Dorner events, I was wondering if standard, regular production (not special ballistic armored versions) cars such as the cruisers that the LAPD uses or a pick up truck provides any relevant ballistic protection to people hiding behind them? Obviously, I understand that any cover is better than no cover, but can cars stop handgun or rifle bullets either sideways (bullet passes through passenger door to driver's door ) or length-wise (bullet passes from front of car to back of car)? Acceptable (talk) 01:53, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

The glass and sheet metal provide just about no protection, but a shot through a door might just happen to hit something more substantial in there. The engine block or wheel hubs are more likely to stop a bullet. And, of course, cover also helps by hiding you. If the assailant doesn't know you're there at all, he isn't likely to shoot. And if he knows you're there, but not quite where, shots are likely to miss or hit a non-vital area. StuRat (talk) 02:34, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Mythbusters tested this and found that bullets go through pretty much everything but the engine block. However, even passing through the door of a car will at least slow a bullet down. There are anecdotal reports of assault rifle rounds, slowed by car doors, being stopped by bullet proof vests they normally would have penetrated. Someguy1221 (talk) 08:46, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

The inability to see where someone precisely is - because a car door is in the way - obviously interferes with the shooter's ability to target that person accurately. Another part of it is that most criminals are extremely stupid and get their ideas of the protection that a car door offers from movies and TV shows - perhaps they decide not to shoot when they think their bullet will be stopped by the door. Sadly, in the case of Dorner, that benefit was not present because he knew only too well what would happen. But no matter what, some protection is better than none - slowing the bullet down even a little is generally going to be a good thing. So in the absence of any other cover - a car door is better than nothing at all. SteveBaker (talk) 14:01, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

The original question was, does the LAPD have any additional ballistic protection. Our article on the subject Black_and_white_(police_vehicle)#Los_Angeles_Police_Department says they have ballistic protection in the front doors. Standard car doors will not stop most bullets. Shadowjams (talk) 20:19, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

intellectual property

Intellectual property itself is a property. So why does the government give time limitations on patents and copyrights? Isn't one's property his/hers as long as he lives? Also, if I were not wrong, a patent is obtained in return to public disclsure. Isn't it right to say that the government must protect the rights of a man on his property (and in this case, intellectual property) without any such condition? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.52.145.100 (talk) 13:16, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Certainly intellectual property is property, but not all property is treated exactly the same way before the law. Different countries, of course, deal with intellectual property differently. The Wikipedia article titled Public domain contains information on why some types of intellectual property is allowed to expire. You can get your answers there. However, be aware that this desk is not the place to start a debate over a subject, so if you have a disagreement with the ethics or morality of what is written there, it would be best if you didn't express it here. --Jayron32 13:22, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

A "property" is only protected if the law says that it is. There are plenty of things that you might think you own - but are not in fact considered to be your property (the words printed in books that you've purchased, for example) - and there are things that you, as a human being, produce that is not yours to keep (the carbon dioxide you expel from your body when you breathe, for example, does not belong to you). There have been quite a few legal cases about what you "own" - and it's often unclear. For example: Do you own the trash you put out on the sidewalk for trash pickup and disposal - or can just anyone rummage through it and take what they want? Are words that you speak to someone else yours or theirs? Does your memory of words spoken to you not belong to you? Should it be illegal to come home to your wife and say "My boss told me 'Work harder!' today" because by doing so, you're infringing on your boss's intellectual property rights? What if you wrote that in an email to her? If that's OK, then why can't someone who heard Martin Luthor King's "I have a dream" speech write that down and publish it? Is your image on a photograph taken by someone else "yours"? Is the image of a pop star "theirs" - what if they are one face in a crowd of 10,000 people at a soccer match that you photograph from the other side of the stadium? These are all complicated decisions about "property" that are not at all simple to decide upon.

Ideas (which is what most "intellectual property" is) are particularly problematic. When you own a car, that is a physical object that either you have use of - or has been taken away from you by someone else (theft). But when you have an idea, even if someone else makes use of that idea, they have not deprived you of your use of it - so it's not so obviously, ethically, clear that there can truly be "theft" of intellectual property at all. It's even worse in the case of things like music. I might even purchase a piece of music from you (eg as a digital download of an MP3 file) - I bought it, yet I don't own it because (you'll say) that the musician still owns it.

At any rate, with physical objects, the laws of theft state what happens if someone deprives you of something so that you no longer have the benefit of it. With intellectual objects (ideas, songs, writings, etc) you are not being deprived of the idea when someone copies or uses it. So the act of breaching copyright or infringing on a patent is a very different matter than theft. What you're (possibly) being deprived of is possible earnings from future use of that idea - and that's not obviously your "property".

So, the law steers a compromise path. It gives you the legal right to benefit from your ideas for some large amount of time - giving you a reasonable prospect of earning money or other benefits from them. In exchange for that, you agree to provide your ideas in full for the benefit of everyone else once that time has expired. You're doing a trade of your long-term ideas for the benefit of legal protection in the shorter term.

The original reason for creating patent laws was that inventors and other "intellectual workers" would often attempt to carry their ideas with them to their death. Unlike a physical object which is subject to inheritance laws, an idea that's kept secret and dies with it's owner is utterly lost to the world. This was a sufficiently large problem at the time that it was considered reasonable and just to offer such workers the protection of the government in exchange for the ultimate release of the idea for the benefit of all mankind. That is what turned mere ideas into "property" in the first place...and it is a matter of debate (especially in this digital age) as to whether that protection should still be given at all. Does it benefit mankind that we have to pay a royalty every time we sing "Happy Birthday to You" to our children? (What? You don't pay that? OMG! You're 'stealing' the intellectual property of Warner/Chappell Music! How could you do that? How dare you steal that poor companies intellectual property?)

SteveBaker (talk) 13:51, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Government can and does deprive us of our property. That's what taxes are, after all. There's also forfeiture/seizure, escheatment, liens, etc. As for intellectual property, a balance must be struck. If the period is too short, innovation will not be rewarded, so people won't bother to innovate. If the period is too long, then innovation will also be slowed, because using any new ideas will be prohibitively expensive. Some inventions really never take off until they go off-patent, because the owner of the patent is just too greedy. One example is some prescription meds, which are prohibitively expensive until they go off patent, and then the competition enters the market as generic equivalents. StuRat (talk) 15:59, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Considering that the designs on banknotes are often copyrighted, perhaps your money isn't even yours in the first place, and therefore the government isn't really depriving you of your property through the tax system. Astronaut (talk) 17:03, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Well...the banknote is a token that is just one physical representation of money - the actual "money" might just be a number in a computer someplace...a computer that you don't own. Right now, I don't happen to possess a single US banknote - but I'm fairly sure they'll still want to tax me! That the government owns the copyright on this or that nicely engraved picture of a dead president, hardly constitutes grounds for taxation! When you think about a currency like bitcoin - which has no physical representation at all, it's much harder to pin down what "financial property" means. SteveBaker (talk) 17:40, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Intellectual property is an example of a good having the property of being non-rivalrous. (This is one of the two defining properties of a public good.) Being non-rivalrous means that one person's consumption of it doesn't decrease the amount available for someone else to consume. One implication of this is that the marginal cost of producing another unit of it is essentially zero, or at least trivial compared to the cost of producing the first unit. For example, it's very costly in terms of money, time, and intellectual effort to come up with a great song wonderfully performed, but once the performance exists in an electronic medium it costs virtually nothing to replay it again and again. So from society's point of view, once the non-rivalrous good exists, societal welfare as a whole can be increased by letting everyone have access to it. That's the argument against providing full property rights to it, and it's an argument that does not apply in the case of a so-called private good. On the other hand, in a dynamic context if society provides no property rights to non-rivalrous goods, no one will ever create them and there won't be a good for everyone to enjoy. These are the positive aspects of the issue. The normative aspect, which is a matter of philosophy or ethics or whatever, and which economics therefore cannot say anything definitive about, is whether it is "right" to provide anything other than perpetual property protection to the good's creator. But this normative question is more complicated than the corresponding question for a private good, for the reasons brought out by the positive analysis Duoduoduo (talk) 17:59, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

never had much truck with that argument about no property rights = no one will ever create. people made up stories and sang songs a long time before anyone came up with a stupid fiction about owning things that don't exist. ---- _nonsense ferret 19:37, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

This is a good generalization - but it's far from being universally true. At this very moment, I'm using Wikipeda which uses PHP and Apache, communicating via the HTTP protocol - I'm viewing it using Firefox, inside KDE, running under Linux and I'm donating my ideas about whatever our OP's are interested in for absolutely no financial gain. All of those things are non-rivalrous goods where the "owners" have essentially waived whatever rights they may have had (well, not quite all - but my point remains). I'm very sure that all of them would still have been created without property protection for their intellectual content.

In the world of the Internet, the top ten websites are (in order of decreasing popularity):

1. Google
2. Facebook
3. YouTube
4. Yahoo!
5. Baidu
6. Wikipedia
7. Windows Live
8. QQ
9. Amazon.com
10. Twitter

It's notable that not one of those sites produces more than a miniscule amount of their own original content - and only Amazon contains any material whatever that wasn't put there by someone for free or charges money for their services.

There are plenty of sources of free music, video, etc. So it's certainly arguable that intellectual goods would still be produced without the protection of patents and copyrights. Certainly it wouldn't be the same set of goods that we see right now - but it certainly wouldn't be a barren landscape.

SteveBaker (talk) 19:45, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

In regards to those sites, for a critical (in the sense of critique) view, one might want to read You Are Not a Gadget. μηδείς (talk) 20:29, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Right, I was being sloppy by saying that no one would ever create them, since I was creating some non-rivalrous property and relinquishing the rights to it, right as I typed that! But I think you vastly exaggerate the point. For example, Google doesn't produce its own content, but a lot of what you access there was produced by someone who made money off it originally. And those owners sometimes complain that Google stifles their ability to get compensation for their efforts (and the expense of those efforts) and that that will in turn stifle content creation. And what about pharmaceuticals? Finding a new drug is vastly expensive, and most of what is accomplished in that area is done by drug companies that are profit-driven. If we eliminated patent protection, they wouldn't dump money into research because they couldn't recoup their costs. So we'd have to rely on research institutes, university-affiliated or otherwise, funded either by generous donors like Bill Gates (who by the way has the money to donate because he had intellectual property protection) or by the taxpayers. Would such non-profits take up the slack? I don't know, but I'm very skeptical. And consider the writing of novels (I mean the ones that are popular enough to make a living for the novelist). If the novel was in the public domain as soon as it was released, the novelist couldn't make a living doing that and would have to find another job, relegating novel-writing to her spare time. Duoduoduo (talk) 20:39, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Imagine that! a world with no one direction or justin biebers! What a tragedy! These are myths put about by large corporations lobbying governments to create an industry out of selling things to people that don't really exist. The fiction of intellectual property is holding back mankind rather than advancing it. Imagine if people just created art for its own sake and the simple love of art and communication, rather than creating things for the sake of trying to make money for a company - this actually happens, and always did. Imagine if knowledge was just shared freely with people who can benefit mankind, rather than commodified and sold. ---- _nonsense ferret 20:55, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Imagine a reference desk where people answered questions with references to verified information, and didn't merely try to start a debate with other users. --Jayron32 05:43, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

the twitching of my nonsense whiskers got the better of me there, of course you are right, comments withdrawn ---- _nonsense ferret 13:09, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

This isn't the place for such criticisms. StuRat (talk) 05:57, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

At what hour do you pull back your clocks in America?

when summer time ends? Thank. Kotjap (talk) 18:45, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

See Daylight saving time in the United States. --Jayron32 19:06, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Thank you!. Kotjap (talk) 19:22, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Note that, in the US, we say "set your clocks back", not "pull". StuRat (talk) 13:53, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

( ... and in the UK, we put them back.) Dbfirs 18:06, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Off topic discussion.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
There is a search bar on the top of this page. If you need help using it you can ask for that at the Help Desk. You are also encouraged to use various on line search tools such as Google. If you still have difficulty finding material on whatever has popped into your mind, then please feel free to request help here for a reference. μηδείς (talk) 19:35, 14 February 2013 (UTC) Well, to be fair in this case, the term "Daylight savings" is unique to the U.S. and may not be familiar to non-Americans, so it may not have been as simple as "type something in the search bar". --Jayron32 19:37, 14 February 2013 (UTC) Perhaps that's why the British House of Commons has just thrown out the Daylight Saving Bill ;-) Alansplodge (talk) 20:02, 14 February 2013 (UTC) (Perhaps having the wrong name was why it was thrown out???) The original bill was the Summer Time Act 1916 and the system is usually known here as British Summer Time (BST), but I agree with Alan that "Daylight savings" is not unknown on this side of the pond. Dbfirs 18:29, 15 February 2013 (UTC) I think you are quite aware the user in question is familiar with google and knows how to link to his search results, and will not be confused by my suggestion that he try researching such easy questions himself. The first hit here on change clocks america is the daylight savings time article. We should restore the suggestion to the guidelines of the refdesks that tells people to use search engines. μηδείς (talk) 19:48, 14 February 2013 (UTC) Of course, no one compels you to answer questions which you find to be a waste of your time. Doubly so for not being compelled to tell users that their question is a waste of your time, even if you take the care to sound as though you really aren't saying that, when it's obvious that's what you mean. In other words, if you find a question is beneath you, you're allowed to simply ignore it. --Jayron32 20:13, 14 February 2013 (UTC) I missed where the OP said he sought but could not find. Or where I criticized your answering him. Is there a feeling that users shouldn't use search engines? Or that I am not extremely generous with my time when people ask questions I can help with? Or that I shouldn't suggest that users try search engines? Or use our search bar? Because that is what I suggested. Teach a man to fish... μηδείς (talk) 20:26, 14 February 2013 (UTC) Teach a man to fish and he'll spout worthless platitudes at you all day? --Jayron32 20:51, 14 February 2013 (UTC) I entered "pull back clocks" into the Wikipedia search bar, and the top five results I received were Conformal pictures, Tampa Bay Rays, Fusee (horology), Atomic clock (no, not in a useful way), and Mainspring. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 20:32, 14 February 2013 (UTC) I'm hatting this, because the above suggestions belong on the talk pages (feel free to move it perhaps). BTW, Happy Valentine's Day to All! --Modocc (talk) 21:27, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Noticing new information once learned

A bad header for this question, but I'm not sure how best to summarize. This is a follow-up question from my post at the language desk, a part of which was about a children's game where a sentence is whispered down a line of people, and the last person announces it to the room, often times with interesting/funny changes from the meaning of the original sentence. Helpful editors told me this game was known as "telephone." So, that's the context, here's the question:

• Upon finding out the name of the game was "telephone," twice in the last two days I've heard the game referenced. First on the Tuesday Adam Corolla podcast (as being "the worst game of telephone, ever" and then today on Dan Patrick's radio show, talking about how relying on off-the-record sources were a "never ending game of telephone." I've experienced this multiple times in my life, where I learn a particular piece of information, and then suddenly start hearing it referenced a lot of places. So my question is: The game of telephone is obviously not something regularly referenced/talked about, so I get a feeling of something in-between coincidence & deja vu when I suddenly star hearing it referenced just days after I first learned about it. Do you know what I mean? (I am having trouble clearly describing this), and, if so, is there a psychological term that describes this? I'd be happy to clarify if necessary. It's just really weird! Ditch ∝ 21:31, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

This familiar effect is sometimes called the Baader-Meinhof phenomenon or Frequency Illusion. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 21:39, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Not really relevant, but in the UK, it's a well-known traditional parlour game called Chinese whispers. Alansplodge (talk) 21:54, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

Andrew, that first link is a really cool read, and describes my experience exactly! The part that stuck with me was how some people find this phenomena so common that they come to actually expect it upon learning new information. So I will now be all ears for random references to the "Baader-Meinhof phenomenon" or "Frequency Illusion". Thanks! Ditch ∝ 22:15, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

(ec) Happens to me all the time. I think it's simply that the phrase or piece of information is out there all the time but you don't notice it because a zillion other things are also out there all the time; then after you've specifically had your attention drawn to it, and it stays in your short-term memory for a while before being filed away in long-term memory, you start noticing it every time. Duoduoduo (talk) 22:19, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

I get it all the time. The most bizarre is that when I am reading (I read a lot), if the TV is on, or if I am in a restaurant or pub, or other public place, and if I am using my normal method of reading, i.e. pronouncing the words in my head rather than speed reading, I will very often hear the exact word I am currently reading at that exact time said by someone near me or on the TV. Jack calls it Synchronicity. KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 05:38, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

The terms "frequency illusion" and "recency bias" are appropriate. These experiences are basically effects of biases in salience_(neuroscience). Note that "Baader-meinhof phenomenon" is a word made up by bloggers not that long ago; it doesn't really have any academic currency (WP used to have an article on it, but it was deleted due to lack of notability and reliable sources). SemanticMantis (talk) 16:26, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

I noticed this phenomenon recently, then kept hearing about it afterwards, so I think it does exist. KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 17:31, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Of course it exists. I just wanted to point out that "baader-meinhof phenomenon" is an internet neologism, and not the term that would be used in academic discourse of the (very real) phenomenon. Ordinarily, I wouldn't bother. But since the Baader-Meinhof Gang is widely known and discussed, overloading the term simply impedes communication. Google scholar reveals myriad interesting and relevant results for various combinations of /frequency recency salience bias/, but if you search for BMP, you get articles about the gang. I thought this information would be useful to the OP or others who wish to search the academic literature. SemanticMantis (talk) 17:44, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

February 15

Was Xena inspired by roman or Spanish princess

I remember reading in older article on Wikipedia that the TV character Xena inspired by roman or Spanish princess but this info was deleted. Who did I read about? Venustar84 (talk) 05:22, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Maybe not a princess, but Bellona was the Roman goddess of war, who usually was portrayed as wearing armour. --TammyMoet (talk) 10:10, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

UK bus routes

Wondering if anyone knows where I could go to look up possible bus routes between Portsmouth, Hampshire and Swindon, Wiltshire? The stagecoach bus website is being particularly unhelpful in the matter, I can only look up information about routes I already know and their maps cover each town individually, so I would have to know every place the route passes through already and then look each of them up individually.

86.15.83.223 (talk) 12:44, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

www.transportdirect.info has various on-line journey planner tools. One route that it suggests is National Express route 300 to Salisbury, then Wilts & Dorset route X5 to Swindon. Gandalf61 (talk) 13:04, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

You can also try National Express directly for routes, times, fares etc. Stagecoach tend to provide local bus services; for cross-country routes in the UK we would normally talk about "coaches". AndrewWTaylor (talk) 14:23, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Songwriting

Heyy em in music we've got to make up a song on the keyboard for our important assessment and i'm pretty stumped for ideas, it has to have the chords in this order: C,C,C,C,F,F,C,C,G,F,C,C . I'm not very good at keyboard so it has to be simple and sound great it can't already exist and it has to use a combination of white and black notes, I'd prefer for it to have a pop style, anyone give me ideas/song for my assessment lesson??? Please help really stuckxx <3 :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lucy8D (talk • contribs) 18:00, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

As a rule we don't help people with their homework. If you have specific questions about the composing process, we might be able to help. Rmhermen (talk) 18:16, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Don't know if it helps you, but that chord sequence is a twelve-bar blues. Blues melodies are normally written using the notes of the minor pentatonic scale. --Nicknack009 (talk) 18:23, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Blues scale may be a useful article to read as well. Just experiment with notes from the blues scale in C, based on the chords. Keep experimenting until you find something that sounds good. --Tango (talk) 21:45, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

destroying documents.

My question is: I've got lots of confidential documents that I need to destroy. I don't have a paper shredder and I'm not sure I'm comfortable shredding them in my workplace. How else could I destroy all this confidential data? Identity theft is no joke! Lamb Ham Jam Man (talk) 18:38, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

How much documents do you have and how much are you willing to pay?

If you're not willing to spend $15 then you can manually shred them.

If you're willing to spend $15 then you can afford a paper shredder[4].

If you have a large amount of documents then you can google "shredding service"[5] and find professionals who will shred it for you.Dncsky (talk) 18:51, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Have you heard of gasoline and matches? CaptainScreebo ^Parley! 18:56, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Large amounts of paper are surprisingly difficult to burn; the air cannot get between the sheets leaving large lumps of unburned paper with singed edges. It requires some effort to break up the paper masses so that they burn properly. In addition, there may be legal constraints on burning rubbish, especially in built-up areas - there certainly are in the UK. Finally, petrol/gasoline and matches are a risky combination, either diesel or paraffin/kerosene are less likely to have unintended consequences. Alansplodge (talk) 21:36, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Thank you all for your help so far. I have been thinking - perhaps I could put them in a pot on the stove and fill it with water and bring it to the boil whilst stirring them, and then putting the compacted mass of pulp in the paper recycling bin. I am keen to recycle them (which is why I am not too keen on burning them) but would this destroy all the data? Thank you Lamb Ham Jam Man (talk) 21:43, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Just buy a cheap shredder... --Tango (talk) 21:47, 15 February 2013 (UTC)