Wikipedia:Reference desk/Miscellaneous

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December 7

AN/PEQ

What does AN/PEQ stand for anyways? I've always wondered that, but I couldn't find an answer anywhere. And the others in the SOPMOD like the AN/PVS and AN/PSQ? 67.188.81.158 (talk) 01:22, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Joint Electronics Type Designation System. AN is Army-Navy, PEQ would be Human Portable, Laser, Special or Combination. FiggyBee (talk) 04:19, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

What is the Canadian cultural Appalachia? Gary, IN?

This question continues the theme from last month. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2007_November_12#What_is_the_British_Gary.2C_Indiana.3F__Appalachia.3F

lots of issues | leave me a message 02:26, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Newfoundland is the Canadian Appalachia, complete with poverty, funny accents, a wide diaspora and many jokes at their expense. The Jane and Finch neighborhood in Toronto, while not as bad as the "bad neighborhoods" in most American cities, is the closest thing Canada has to a notorious black ghetto. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 03:38, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

As for depressed urban areas comparable to Gary, Canada does not seem to have any quite as big or bad as Gary, but Brantford, Ontario, and Sydney, Nova Scotia, are both fairly depressed. Marco polo (talk) 21:24, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't know Canada well enough to say what "Canada's Appalachia" might be (or I'm too wary to hazard a guess), but Newfoundland, mentioned above, has the added benefit of actually being part of the Appalachian Mountains. Pfly (talk) 04:07, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Tough Questions - Wikipedia's "Question Gate" and Shockwave

Who had the idea to call me a troll, assume ABF ? Reminds me of what happened when a Hillary Clinton supporter had tried to prevent "non approved" questions from being asked at one of her engagements.

Other than this matter, the History Channel will air this Friday a show called "Shockwave", which is about the worst explosion to have taken place. I'm referring to a rocket fuel plant that detonated in Nevada.

Should this reference about the show be placed in appropriate articles ? 65.163.115.114 (talk) 06:10, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

I only asked the tough questions about animal protection organizations, environmental organizations. Someone else could have asked these, and really be offensive about it. 65.163.115.114 (talk) 06:16, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

You got fairly good answers to your questions, I thought. As for Shockwave, I don't think it's notable that the History Channel has made a program about the PEPCON disaster, so I wouldn't put it in the article. FiggyBee (talk) 06:52, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Not the worst explosion. Only 2 dead and 0.25KT. Compare to the Halifax Explosion, with 2000 dead and 3.0KT, or with the Texas City disaster. Or of course deliberate explosions at Nagasaki and Hiroshima. -Arch dude (talk) 07:49, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Your questions got reasonable answers - but it's a bad idea to rant about things in questions. Ask what you need to know - leave it at that. Also, there is never a guarantee that you'll get a useful answer here. It's a volunteer service manned by whoever feels like coming along and doing it. If nobody feels like answering, you don't get an answer - there is no entitlement.

As for this question, List of the largest artificial non-nuclear explosions is a pretty good start. At the bottom is this table:

Event	Approximate yield
Port Chicago disaster	5 kt
Minor Scale	4 kt
Heligoland	4 kt
Texas City Disaster	2-4 kt
Halifax Explosion	2.9 kt

PEPCON at 0.25kt is a mere damp squib compared to these! I agree with FiggyBee though - the fact that a TV program is made about something isn't sufficiently notable to warrant mentioning it in the body of the article. It would, however, be a valuable addition to the "References" or "External links" section. But this is Wikipedia - "WP:Be bold" certainly applies here. SteveBaker (talk) 14:27, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Cycling clip

Hi all. I was wondering if anyone knew the story behind this cycling clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RL48rN2ven0 ? As in when it occurred, what was the race, what were the repurcussions for the cyclists and the guy who pushed the guy off the bridge. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Akamad (talk • contribs) 06:44, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm... a tough one. I couldn't even identify the language - I'm guessing a scandinavian language...(?) A translation would be a good start - maybe there are some clues in the voiceover. A google indicated Japan, but the spectator who does the pushing isn't Japanese and I'm not convinced the cyclist is either. Good question though. Manning (talk) 13:46, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

RTL on Google turns up a Luxemburg station , so maybe it's in Luxembourgish? Also there're quite a number of stations named RTL or BTL. --antilived^{T | C | G} 01:28, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, there was another copy of the clip on youtube that had labelled it as Japanese, but I too doubt that. - Akamad (talk) 01:43, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

The sign in the background says “[something] MATA” and the video is tagged with a logo that says “Csiii[something].” What we really need is a translation of the commentary though. --S.dedalus (talk) 08:06, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

The sign looks to me like "A 2 KM META" with what might be an arrow. For whatever that's worth. —Tamfang (talk) 07:11, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

The voiceover might be unrelated to the origin of the clip, as I think I have seen it on the net before and without the voiceover - perhaps that particular clip was taken from some clip show in another country. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.208.109.169 (talk) 11:31, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

The voiceover is in Hungarian (although I don't understand it). Csiihi is what it says in the corner. It sounds like the sort of VO and cheap sound effects you get on X's Funniest Home Videos shows. Steewi (talk) 03:00, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, Csihi, not Csiihi. Steewi (talk) 03:01, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Doctor's handwriting

Why do doctors always have such bad handwriting? --Candy-Panda (talk) 10:03, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

So the patient will NOT know how bad the diagnosis is, especially if the patient has "Fat Wallet Syndrome". 65.163.115.114 (talk) 10:11, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

It's to maintain the 'medical mystique', what you can't understand you can't question. Richard Avery (talk) 10:59, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

They study hard for seven years to achieve that level of illegibility. SaundersW (talk) 11:42, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Do you have data on the handwriting of non-doctors? If not then I don't see what needs to be explained.--droptone (talk) 13:46, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Doesn't answer the question but is still interesting related reading TIme Magazine - Cause of death - bad handwriting -- Manning (talk) 13:49, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

• A British Medical Journal study found that doctors do NOT have handwriting that is on average any worse than other professionals. See here Manning (talk) 13:55, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

• lol ive been told that i should be a doctor with my handwriting...good thing typing is always legible. Esskater11 14:41, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

• I actually have no idea what my doctor's handwriting is like as I've never seen more than her signature. The trend in these parts (I live in Kitchener, Ontario) is for medical professionals to print off their prescription slips on a printer. Matt Deres (talk) 17:58, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

My doctor also prints prescriptions, I believe that this is fairly standard nowadays in Britain, as it enables computerization of medical records, and computerized warnings of possible adverse drug interactions (especially useful if a patient has a complex drug regime). It should be noted, however, that the Misuse of Drugs Act requires that prescriptions for Controlled Drugs be handwritten by the doctor. (I know this because I used to look after a child who was prescribed Ritalin, and the pharmacist rejected some of her scripts as an idiot doctor had printed them - after that I started reading the BNF thoroughly whenever a child was prescribed anything). DuncanHill (talk) 00:59, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Donation

This isn't a question. Removed - the banner at the top of the page is more than enough. Lanfear's Bane | t 11:27, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Not Sure if this is consiered legal advice...

If my band wanted to do a cover of a song and then put it on an EP and sell it(even though it would sold locally and for low profit-like $5 an album) would i have to get permission from the original artist to do it?the juggreserection (talk) 15:00, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

• The "legal advice" rule prevents me from telling you what to do to solve your problem. But I am allowed to tell you how to educate yourself about your problem. This article is a great place to start. --M@rēino 15:22, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

You have to clear permission with the rights holder which is usually either the band or more often their record company, sometimes it's a specific third party company that manages muscal rights for a lot of bands and music producers. Keria (talk) 15:36, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Aargh websense stuck a big middle finger in my face and said, "you cant look at cleverjoe.com". >:( the juggreserection (talk) 17:31, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Sorry to hear that! Here's another solid guide to cover music copyrights. --M@rēino 18:32, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

You have to get permission from whoever holds the copyright (may not be the original artist). Otherwise, we call it stealing. —Nricardo (talk) 19:03, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Nope, anyone can cover a song without permission. They just have to make the appropriate payments to MCPS etc. --WebHamster 03:47, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Which acts under the authority of the copyright holder. —Nricardo (talk) 02:30, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Regardless, you don't need their permission. A cover is not a copyright infringement. MCPS collect payment after the fact, an artist performing a cover does not need to request permission from the MCPS before the performance. --WebHamster 02:36, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

But recording is probably a legally different situation to a performance. In a recording situation, there are unlimited replays, so a fixed amount has to be negotiated (or a fixed amount per CD copy). In a performance situation, it's only played once, so you charge for the one performance (or get permission to cover for free within a time period). Steewi (talk) 03:05, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Why assume the copyright holder even has an agreement with MCPS (or ASCAP or BMI or whoever)? —Nricardo (talk) 04:34, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

It's not an assumption. The other motive for obtaining royalties from the various agencies is that you are also actively protecting your copyright. If it can be demonstrated that you aren't actively protecting your copyright then that copyright can lapse and along with it your right to royalties etc. In the real world it's highly unlikely that a song that is covered won't be protected by MCPS, ASCAP et al. Likewise, at least in the UK anyway, when the cover is performed at a live venue and that venue isn't registered with a royalties agency then no royalties are due as it's the responsibility of the venue to pay the royalties and not the artist performing unlike a cover that is on recorded media. In the later case the royalties are paid to the duplication house --WebHamster 04:51, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

WWII plane ID tag

Charlie, Sugar, Able and How of the 375th Fighter Squadron (E2). The number on the tailfin is the serial.

What is the proper name for the identification number found on WWII fighter airplanes on the tail section of the fuselage? Thank you. Keria (talk) 15:31, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Which number, what air force? For British aircraft, the big white letters are a squadron code (the letters in front of the roundel are the squadron, the one behind is the unique identifier of that aircraft), and the smaller black alphanumeric is the serial number. Aircraft changed squadron codes frequently (either because the aircraft were reassigned, or the squadron changed code to confuse the enemy), but retained the same serial throughout. The USAAF used pretty much the same system, see the photo ->. FiggyBee (talk) 17:59, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Thank you figgyBee. I should have been more precise as I was indeed talking about the RAF and a specific Typhoon Squadron my grandfather served in. I asked this question because I wanted to find which specific planes he was flying. You answer my question completely, (white squadron code and black serial number) thank you very much. Since I asked the question I managed to dig up copies of his log book that have been printed in a book (I had no idea they were there) and it shows that they were changing planes every day (I initialy thought wrongly that they would be assigned a plane and stick to it). Thank you again for your reply. Keria (talk) 18:27, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

john travolta

Is it true that john travolta is bisexual? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dlo2012 (talk • contribs) 18:15, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

While there have been rumors to that effect, such rumors aren't always accurate. Travolta himself hasn't said that he is bisexual, and no reliable sources have offered any compelling evidence of it. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 18:31, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

• It's worth noting that Travolta's religion, Scientology, started out as very anti-gay, although it has recently adopted a more inclusive stance. [1] So that might affect his attitudes. On the other hand, it's also worth noting that Travolta himself and many of the characters he portrayed have behaviors that may be called LGBT stereotypes, and that much of the rumors seem to have come from people being way, way too quick to assume that anyone who is a great dancer or has a great eye for fashion must be gay/bi. --M@rēino 18:42, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

quick and straightforward path to a small-scale ecommerce site selling PDFs?

Please see my question here. I request info from anyone who knows the easiest way to set up a small-scale site that sells PDFs one at a time or via subscription.

I wasn't sure whether this is more appropriate here or at the computing questions. If someone tells me I will make sure to put it in the one right place. Thanks. NoClutter (talk) 20:08, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

If you're looking for a way to sell PDF documents that you have created, a Print on demand company like Lulu might be your best bet. In addition to printing paper books on demand, they also provide a mechanism for people to purchase electronic copies of books in PDF format. It's been a while since I used it, so I'm not sure if it would work for subscriptions or what their commission is. One of the options is free to the author, though. Unfortunately, I can't think of an e-commerce package that will do this for you off the top of my head; I'm sure someone else knows of one, though --Kateshortforbob 23:39, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Verse from Vishnu Purana - a Hindu Mythology book

This verse, a translation, captures the essence of marriage: she is language, he is thought he is reason, she is sense
she is will, he is wish
he is song, she is note
she is motion, he is wind
he is battle, she is might
she is beauty, he is strength
he is lamp, she is light
she is body, he is soul
he is day, she is night

please help me find this verse

- shyamalanawab —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.65.131.111 (talk) 20:16, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

This site [2] suggests it is from Bhagavata Purana. SaundersW (talk) 22:49, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

thankyou very much, i would still like the verse number & chapter where this verse figure —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.65.131.61 (talk) 14:13, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

December 8

Cat Litter!

How does cat litter work? The articles just explain different kind of cat litter without explaining why cats like crapping in it. Would a tiger crap in a litter box? Toko loko (talk) 04:23, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

TV is picking up air traffic control

This is weird. My TV set, when tuned to a certain channel (that broadcasts pictures fine), picks up on what I believe to be the local air traffic control. I have yet to hear them name the airport, but I know ATC-lingo and this is definitely it. It's crystal clear quality, ie what you would hear if you were in the airplane or in the control tower being spoken to. While this is insanely cool (though traffic is low, so only chatter intermittently, about 30-45 minutes between each conversation (made worse by the late hour)), I can't help but think something must be wrong with my TV. This has never happened before today, and no greater changes have happened that I know of that should mean anything to my set. My TV reception is analogue, which you may have gathered already. Any advice or help on this issue? The TV is some 7 years old now, a Grundig of some kind. :) Thanks for all help. This'll be an interesting one. 81.93.102.185 (talk) 00:50, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

ATC frequency is just above FM radio, modulated with Single-Side Band AM (IIRC). Our article on Television channel frequencies doesn't have anything in the ATC range (108.00MHz - 12xMHz), especially in Europe (your IP says you're from Norway). Usually there would be a lot more traffic for commercial airports than that, so you might've picked up an unattended GA frequency for an airfield close to you instead. More information, such as some excerpt and your location would be very helpful. --antilived^{T | C | G} 01:18, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I am situated near Lakselv Airport, Banak. There should be three relevant control towers 'nearby'; Alta, Tromsø and Bodø Airport (which I think has control over most of northern Norway's airspace). Only minutes ago I heard a plane overhead, not unlikely an air ambulance, and I expect the chatter to continue as he either lands or is dispatched to whatever ATC controls the airspace beyond the local area. The traffic is not at all that heavy, and only rarely are there flights past midnight, especially in this perifery. 81.93.102.185 (talk) 01:33, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

My first thought is a malfunction at the tower causing spurious emissions (that's one for the "Wash your mouth out" thread), or a stork bent their antenna or the deflector thingie that's supposed to keep them from irradiating their neighbors. A strong enough signal will "swamp" the front end in your tuner. I'd ask around the neighborhood to see whether anybody else's TVs are doing it and then call the tower and complain if they are. --Milkbreath (talk) 01:24, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Interesting! There must be some clue as to the airport; usually you start air traffic communications by saying who you want to talk to and who you are. FiggyBee (talk) 01:27, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, they likely do, but I forgot to tell there is a slasher movie on right now, and I can't turn down the volume without also lowering tbe volume of the ATC's volume. So I'm left with a lot of screaming and really icky sounds, which admittedly I'd rather not be hearing. For science, eh. 81.93.102.185 (talk) 01:35, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I called the airport, turns out they've had this problem for the last day or two. So, there you go. At least - granted they stay silent on the TV at the right times - I'll be able to listen in on interesting chatter. Still I'd welcome all ideas as to what exactly is going on, since the control tower person said they were clueless too. 81.93.102.185 (talk) 01:41, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

If you are getting it on broadcast TV you can try changing the length of the antenna cord for something either a few feet longer or a few feet shorter - that usually works pretty well. If you are picking it up on DVD/VCR/Satellite/CableTV stuff then take a trip to RadioShack (or your local equivalent) and buy some large "Ferrite Beads" (sometimes they are called "ferrite EMI filters") you thread the wire that goes from your DVD player (or whatever) to the TV through one of those, bring the wire back over the outside and thread it through again - and that does wonders for reducing the amount of junk you pick up. SteveBaker (talk) 03:16, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Pretty sure ATC is narrow-band frequency modulation so it would be demodulated by a TV set just fine. (It surely isn't SSB). And the most common reason a receiver intended for one frequency ends up picking up another frequency is that the offending reciever has lousy image rejection so it picks up frequencies that are shifted by 2x the intermediate frequency away from the intended tuning point. Finally, remember that TVs pick up a different range of frequencies when used on cable television than when used for broadcast television.

Atlant (talk) 18:11, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/FindingAids/dynaweb/calher/rick/figures/I0025690A.jpg

what is this? where is this? etc? thank you. --Themirage (talk) 00:58, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Looking through the rest of the photos in the directory, it's the aftermath of the 6.3 earthquake which hit downtown Santa Barbara on June 29, 1925. FiggyBee (talk) 01:25, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

what is iewa stand for?

--Themirage (talk) 01:18, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Could be Inland Empire Wrestling Association or Internet Entertainment Writers Association. DuncanHill (talk) 01:24, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Or the Iowa Education Web Association [3] Rockpocket 01:27, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

2 guitar questions.

What is the tonal difference between a regular Stratocaster and Fat Strat? Also, which is better, for a beginner, a Squier Stratocaster, or a Yamaha PAC012? MalwareSmarts (talk) 01:31, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Our article on Fat Strat explains it has a humbucker. That article notes, "Stratocasters fitted with one humbucker in the bridge position, resulting in a pickup configuration noted as H-S-S (starting at bridge pickup: H for humbucker, S for single coil) are referred to as "Fat Strats", because of the "fatter", "rounder" tone offered by the humbucker pickup." Can't help with your second question, I'm afraid. Rockpocket 03:32, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

yamaha. everytime. now days theyre all made in the same factory in Taiwan any ways but seriously though. I have a strat, a good one, and I also have alot of yamaha equipment as well as several other brands. I have played for years and years and everytime, ill take yamaha over all else. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.3.151.98 (talk) 04:18, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm getting a Yamaha Pacifica. I tried it out at a local music store, tried it out plugged into two Line 6 amps, and it sounded great, even with plastic covering the pickups! MalwareSmarts (talk) 00:17, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

best graphics in a baseball video game?

--Themirage (talk) 01:33, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

who is the judge of montgomery alabama?

--Themirage (talk) 01:35, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

There are lots of judges in Montgomery, Alabama. I guess the top judge is Sue Bell Cobb; she is currently the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Alabama. Rockpocket 03:24, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

1

please can some one help me find psychological assistance and/or mental therepy in my area watford Herts uk thank you

You're in the UK? You want free psychological help? Your first port of call is your GP, if you have one. Make an appointment, explain the problem, and they should offer you appropriate advice. Psychological help is available on the NHS, although getting it can depend on where you live and how serious the problem is. Certainly your GP will do the best they can. If you don't have a GP, or you feel the problem is urgent, you can go to your local Accident and Emergency centre and seek help there. NHS direct might help you find the most appropriate service. In addition, If you just need someone to talk to, The Samaritans can be helpful. Generally, check out this link if you think you are having a crisis. 79.77.13.195 (talk) 14:51, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

If you call The Samaritans you might even get to talk to Phil Selway from Radiohead because he is a listening volunteer there sometimes. But seriously do take care. Therapy can really help you get through whatever you are dealing with now. Don't give up hope, it gets better! Saudade7 16:12, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Mind, which is a mental health charity, have a helpline (details here [4]) which can help put you in touch with support organizatons in your area. Best wishes, DuncanHill (talk) 01:53, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

The Watford Community Mental Health Team (part of the NHS) have some information at this link [5]. DuncanHill (talk) 02:05, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

There is also an organization called SANEline who can give support and advice, their information is here - [6] DuncanHill (talk) 02:07, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Afraid of insects, worried

Hi, I have a fear of insects which is quite strong, I even get scared of butterflies. I don't ever want to kill a butterfly, but when they get close to me I panic and try to swat it. What should I do? --Arachnophobic.guy (talk) 04:19, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

You could see a psychiatrist. I can't give you specific medical advice, but I can tell you that you're far from alone. While fear of spiders or wasps (things where the fear is more legitimate, if you take my meaning) are more common, there are plenty of folks who get freaked out at completely harmless butterflies and moths. Under the supervision of some kind of counselor (whether an actual shrink or some kind of therapist), one common method of overcoming the sensitivity is to have the patient handle increasingly more lifelike representations of the bugs they fear. It might start out with pictures, then move on to stuffed toys, more realistic rubber toys etc. and so on. Matt Deres (talk) 15:29, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I remember reading once that if you have an (irrational) fear of insects, it could be due to some kind of childhood trauma where you realized that you could lose your limbs. Maybe you saw someone with missing limbs or deformed limbs, or maybe you got into some accident where you thought you might lose your own. Now granted, I read this in Readers Digest when I was in 7th grade but that really struck me and I have always remembered it. Something in Psychoanalysis I assume. Saudade7 16:07, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Congratulations, you have taken the first step to a more comfortable life. Follow Matt's advice. You need to find a therapist who has experience in treating phobias and then talk to him about how he is going to improve your response to insects. However before you do that you need to be really sure that you want to overcome your reaction to insects. The success of the treatment is dependant to some extent on your personal motivation to change your behaviour. The therapy is usually slightly stressful but not frightening and the therapist will not ask you to do anything you do not want to do. It is necessary to generate a little anxiety to show you how easy it is to overcome it, and believe me it is surprisingly easy to overcome it. I look forward to seeing you renamed arachnophile! Good luck. Richard Avery (talk) 11:28, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Maelstorm

Can a Maelstorm suck in a ship like in Pirates of the Caribean, or was that amped up to make the movie more exciting? How large do malstorms actually get? Maelstorm doesnt have any info. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.101.53.177 (talk) 05:27, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

The information in our whirlpool article is rather more comprehensive. According to that, the Saltstraumen pictured in the maelstrom (not maelstorm) article is about as powerful as they get.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 10:23, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

How many soccer clubs?

How many mens soccer clubs are there worldwide, including all countries and all divisions of play? 75.21.180.188 (talk) 17:32, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately it's impossible to answer for all levels of play as there are many amateur, school and Sunday League teams that are not part of a formal Football Association. For example, the English football league system contains around 7,000 teams (the number changes yearly) which includes both professional and non-professional sides but doesn't cover all clubs playing in the country (the FA says it may be nearer 37,500 including youth clubs). These figures are for England alone and are all estimates. 62.136.140.178 (talk) 18:50, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I've also asked if anyone from Wikipedia:WikiProject Football can help. 62.136.140.178 (talk) 19:03, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Just including Football Association team from each country. 75.21.180.188 (talk) 20:39, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Volume of a bag

Aside from a water displacement method, what would be an accurate way of finding the volume of a plastic shopping bag and a Ziploc bag? Thanks. Acceptable (talk) 17:43, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Fill it with a known-density material and weigh it? —Keenan Pepper 19:58, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

The problem with that method is that plastic bags stretch. Sancho 20:00, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

So what is your definition of the volume of a plastic bag? I would argue that any useful definition has to include the fact that they stretch. SteveBaker (talk) 23:32, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Were you asking what mine definition is or what User:Acceptable's is? Sancho 05:26, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, Acceptable's definition would be more useful for answering the question - but I'm curious as to why you'd discount the "fill, then weigh" approach on the grounds that the bags might stretch - when the usefulness of knowing the volume is probably in knowing the post-stretched volume. Personally, I think filling the bags with water then measuring the volume of water using a measuring jug would be a good measurement - but filling with water and weighing will obviously work just as well. That's a measurement of the interior volume. The volume of the actual bag itself would be tough to measure - you'd have to somehow squash them up into the smallest possible space without air getting in there...urgh! SteveBaker (talk) 14:32, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I was just unsure how I would convince myself that I'd "filled" the bag... I could always just put a bit more in and it would fit. I guess you could fill the bag until it breaks, then measure what falls out. Sancho 22:56, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Polystyrene beads would not stretch the bags, if you have access to those. --Tagishsimon (talk) 17:45, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

The neatest solution would be to measure how many plastic bags can fit into the plastic bag...you may award yourself extra marks for amusement value--Tagishsimon (talk) 17:46, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, I was trying to find the maximum volume that the bag could hold. But the water displacement method worked better than I thought it would. Thanks. Acceptable (talk) 15:43, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Water is probably far denser than the average contents of a plastic shopping bag. So I would advise a researcher to collect a sample of plastic shopping bags as filled by baggers at stores (selecting the type of stores is part of the problem of definition: some baggers put one object in each bag). Then determine the volume and mass of the contents of each bag. Weigh the objects and determine their volume by measurement and geometry, or by water displacement if irregular shaped. This would be a determination of the actual used volume for the bag in practice, as well as of the typical density of the goods placed in the bag. Now select a fill material with that density. Perhaps it would be like Cheerios (no idea in the absence of data). If that were so, then having determined the density of the fill material, pour it into the bag up to some determined fill level and weigh it. This is an Operational definition of the volume of the bag. If you filled it with shredded styrofoam or Ping pong balls, you would get a smaller volume than if you filled it with water (or marbles, sand, or lead shot). Another approach would be to have it opening-down under water and fill it with air. Its lifting power would be a quick index of "volume" but with a different operational definition. Edison (talk) 17:39, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

What is the French cultural Appalachia? Gary, IN?

My apologies if the theme is boring. lots of issues | leave me a message 22:02, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't understand the question. What do the French, Appalachia, and Gary, Indiana have to do with one another? Dismas|^(talk) 23:52, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

He has been asking what the [insert nationality] version of Appalachia and Gary are. It helps to know that Appalachia is stereotypically poor, rural, and backwards, and Gary is stereotypically a depressed urban hellhole. Adam Bishop (talk) 00:06, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I am aware of the reputations of each of them but was unaware of the history of the questions here. Thanks for the explanation! Dismas|^(talk) 04:33, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I have been lurking on this one, not having any specific opinions, and can say that I do not find the thread boring in the least. I knew about the reputation of Appalachia; learning about that of Gary will help me pick up on more American pop cultural references. There are others, aren't there, places that stand for a certain ambience or kind of people. Doesn't Missoula, Montana represent being a long way from anywhere else? (A more tame version of Timbuktu?) Or have I got it wrong? BrainyBabe (talk) 09:10, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I've never heard of Missoula as being used as a metaphor for the "middle of nowhere." The term often used is Podunk. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 18:13, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

There's another term, too, which is more vulgar. Some people prefer not to actually say the naughty words, so they abbreviate it to "BFE"[7]. Saukkomies 18:42, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

BrainyBabe, it is always a delight to respond to someone who is interested in my country (the US). I'll plug in my own opinions about what you were asking about, but keep in mind they are just my own ideas - others may have completely contradictory thoughts about this. So here goes: There are some places in the US where people are almost as rooted to the immediate place around them as they are in the typical traditional European areas. Many people living on Manhattan Island think that anything west of the Jersey Shore is off the map. I lived in the South Side of Chicago a while (around 111th Street), and personally met people who had never seen the Sears Tower in downtown Chicago. I know of people who have never been more than 20 miles from where they were born - and I'm not talking just about old people, but people who are in their 20s and 30s, too.

So the idea of Missoula representing someplace that is far from anywhere else is relative! If you happen to live in the West, Missoula doesn't seem to be far away. But if you live in Long Island, New York, maybe it does. Keep in mind that the West is the fastest growing area of the United States - and has been for the past 25 years or so. There are some major metropolitan urban areas out West that in no way can be thought of any more as just "cowboy towns". I'm talking about places like Denver, Salt Lake City, Las Vegas, Phoenix, L.A., San Francisco, Portland, and Seattle. With so many people living within a day or two drive away, I doubt that Missoula is really that "far away" as might be imagined...

Missoula itself has a very strong reputation of being a liberal-minded haven for published authors, artists, and free-wheeling hippies. I read somewhere that Missoula has more published authors per capita than any other town in the US - including New York City. There are a handful of such towns in the US that are like Missoula, more or less. They all have one thing in common: they have large universities. So along with Missoula, there is Boulder, Colorado; Eugene, Oregon; Madison, Wisconsin; Santa Cruz, California; Athens, Georgia; Bloomington, Indiana; and probably some others I don't know about. One town that is NOT on that list (in my opinion) is Berkeley, California, which in spite of its reputation for being a very radical school back in the 1960s, is from what my own experience has shown me to be quite conservative. It is rather Santa Cruz (down near Monterey) that is the real hippie college town of California. At any rate, if Missoula represents anything in the broader consciousness of America, I'd say it would fall into this category of very liberal (read: hippie) college towns.

I would say that if anyplace in the Lower 48 States (not including Alaska and Hawaii) represented the "back of beyond", it would probably be somewhere in the middle of Nevada or North Dakota. Nevada has taken on in the popular culture of the US an image of being the place where really weird stuff happens. This comes up a lot in movies that portray Nevada as a scary desolate place where serial killers, sociopathic hermits, and dirt-poor trailer trash wackos live. Of course Nevada is actually a very beautiful place with lots of wide open desert and pine-covered mountain ranges where eagles fly and there's nobody around to hassle you. North Dakota is a flatter, more agricultural version of Nevada, and would (in my opinion) be also a place where people would say is far from anywhere.

Finally, Gary, Indiana is probably what I would consider to be close to the most heavily industrialized parts of the Ruhr Area factory towns (or rather, what my impression of the Ruhr towns is - which may be outdated). It has lots of big mills and factories, including some of the few steel mills that are still in operation in the US. The air always smells in Gary from the pollution. It also is an incredibly congested traffic corridor, as it sits at the very southern bottom of Lake Michigan. A couple of major east-west Interstate Freeways (I-90 and I-80) converge and pass through Gary and its neighbor city of Hammond, Indiana. All traffic that is going from north of a line that stretches from San Fransisco to Chicago that is heading east must pass through this corridor. Likewise, traffic heading west that is coming north of a line stretching from Gary to New York City must also pass through this corridor. This makes it one of the most heavily-traveled sections of road in North America. Every day thousands of big semi trucks drive along that stretch of Interstate, making it a nightmare to drive in, especially in inclement weather. So, Gary is not really one of the prettiest spots in the US... Saukkomies 18:41, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

For "middle of nowhere" in the 48 states I'd suggest northern Maine and maybe northern Michigan. Also perhaps parts of Wyoming and northwestern Nebraska. Missoula is on I-90! You can't miss it. None of this relates to the Appalachia of France. I couldn't say, but might it be Burgandy? Brittany? Pfly (talk) 10:19, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Hey, I live in Northern Michigan! Okay, well, I do see your point. :) Saukkomies 23:58, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks everyone, especially Saukkomies. That list of university towns is interesting; would I be correct in adding Austin, Texas? The Ruhr is largely post-industrial now, as is Sheffield (the English Gary). There is a series of joke maps sold as posters, depicting a geographically truncated view of the world. The one I know best is from the point of view of a New Yorker, where, as is stated above, not much exists west of the river, bar a hazy gimpse of Hollywood a long way away. What is this series called? BrainyBabe (talk) 07:46, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, Brainybabe. It is good to know about the Ruhr and Sheffield developing into post-industrial towns. They sound like many of the old "Steel Belt" cities in the U.S., such as Milwaukee, Wisconsin, Chicago, Illinois, Cleveland, Ohio, Erie, Pennsylvania, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and Buffalo, New York, to name a few. All of these cities have fairly successfully developed a healthy economy beyond heavy industry. I leave off a couple of cities that quite haven't made it, including Detroit, Michigan and Gary, Indiana, which are still struggling along. As per Austin, Texas - I would say that I'd be inclined to agree with you about it being roughly in the same category as the other very liberal college towns I named. Perhaps it would be most closely akin to Madison, Wisconsin, since both cities are not only very liberal college towns, but are also the capital cities of their respective state. That adds a different influence with all the government employees and legislators present. But, yes, I've never been to Austin, but I have heard it is a wonderful city with lots of culture and which is very liberal. The map you mentioned is very familiar to me, too, but I'm not sure where I've seen it exactly. Saukkomies 07:39, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Brainybabe, maybe you are thinking of Saul Steinberg's New Yorker cover of March 29, 1976[8] . --Gui Moquette (talk) 14:09, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Bingo! The collective mind/memory is a wonderful thing. BrainyBabe (talk) 07:32, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

The Name 'Dakota'

Trendy in the US as a child's name, but I was told it's offensive and insensitive. Is it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.238.77.72 (talk) 23:48, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, not to the good folk of North Dakota and South Dakota. They might be a little miffed if you referred to either state as just "Dakota", but that's understandable (despite the publicity provided by Doris Day). I imagine these 2 states are sometimes referred to collectively as "the Dakotas". -- JackofOz (talk) 01:42, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, Jack, they are referred to as "the Dakotas". Dismas|^(talk) 04:31, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I am fairly certain there is nothing offensive about Dakota. It is the autonym (name used for themselves as a people) by the Santee Sioux people. The states took their name from the indigenous people who lived in the eastern Dakotas. (Jack is correct that North and South Dakota are collectively referred to as "the Dakotas".) The closely related Lakota people occupied much of the central and western Dakotas. What some Dakota/Lakota people find offensive is the word Sioux. As the Sioux article explains, the word Sioux was taken from the language of the neighboring Ojibwa people and was long believed to be insulting, though in fact it may originally have meant just "speaker of a foreign language". Still, many Dakota/Lakota people today find the word Sioux offensive. Marco polo (talk) 02:33, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Someone should tell Susan Janet Ballion. Rockpocket 07:03, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

There could, possibly, be people of Dakota ethnicity who object to the use of their ethnicity as a given name. Corvus cornix_talk 04:35, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I am not Native American, but I do have some friends who are, and have been exposed to a degree to Native culture. I had the opportunity to go to a booksigning by the noted Native American author Sherman Alexie back in 1999 when he was in Chicago. He discussed a wide range of topics with the fairly large crowd that came to hear him, and one of the topics he covered was the recent phenomenon of naming children after Indian Tribes, which Dakota is one, of course. He named a bunch of similar names like this: Lakota, Shawnee, Hopi, etc. And then he started to jokingly suggest that they should also name kids after ALL of the tribes, including Ho Chunk (a tribe located near Chicago in Wisconsin). So it seems that at least one Native American author seems to regard this practice as innocuous and good material for humor. --Saukkomies 04:37, 9 December 2007 (UTC

• Several years ago, some element of North Dakota government or civil society proposed to rename itself simply "Dakota", so presumably they don't find it too offensive. --Sean 04:41, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

My guess is that the reason someone might find it offensive, or rather insensitive, is because a non-Dakota (people not state) person is using their name for a non-Dakota child, thereby watering down the meaning of 'Dakota' as a way of identifying themselves. If you say 'I'm Dakota', people might not know whether you're talking about your nationality or your given name. It could be considered disrespectful of the culture, because you don't necessarily educate a daughter called Dakota in Dakota ways or name her such as a matter of pride in her heritage, but rather as a part of a fad. I've no doubt that naming a child after an Australian Aboriginal group would be considered in rather poor taste. Steewi (talk) 03:21, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

December 9

Gary Owens/Eric Boardman educational videos

These were children's shows hosted by Gary Owens and Eric Boardman, produced by Midwich Entertainment with the first 3 released on video by Twin Tower Enterprises. In 1991, MPI/Videosaurus released the rest as well as reissues of the first 3. Dave Spear's soundtrack to the series was released on LP and Cassette by Cerberus Records, and CD in Germany. It contained music from ALL the episodes.

• Dinosaurs (This first show was from 1985, was re-edited as "More Dinosaurs". It was not released on video due to some rights concerning "Fantasia" clips. Ironically it aired on Disney Channel.)
• More Dinosaurs (Gary Owens wants Eric Boardman to find him a dinosaur and bring it back, clips from the silent "The Lost World" and "Baby: Secret of the Lost Legend" movies to fill out where "Fantasia" was.)
• Dinosaurs, Dinosaurs, Dinosaurs (Gary Owens is turning into a dinosaur, so Eric must collect water from the Crystal Palace Dinosaur Court to stop the transformation. Clips from "Gorgo".)
• Prehistoric World (concerned extinct mammals of the Cenozoic; Eric and Gary visit the La Brea tar pits and meet Dougal Dixon)
• The Return of Dinosaurs (Gary and Eric and a bunch of dino-crazed kids at a dinosaur slumber party at the Natural History Museum in Los Angeles. Go on a bone hunt and reconstruct a stegosaurus, then on to Canada to visit the Museum of Paleontology and then explore the dinosaurs of Antarctica.)
• Son of Dinosaurs (Gary and Eric must protect a dinosaur egg with a living embryo from some sort of "Evil Russian"-type character.)
• The World's Greatest Dinosaur Video (a 1990s repackaging of "More", "Dinosaurs, Dinosaurs, Dinosaurs" and "Prehistoric World" at a higher price, aimed at home video rentals)

What is the American equivalent of a British newspaper reader?

Following on from the place associations above...

What is the American (and indeed other nationalities') equivalent of the British stereotype embodied in the well-established phrases "a typical Guardian reader" (left-leaning, university educated) and "a typical Daily Mail reader" (right-wing, xenophobic, Little Englander)? Thanks. BrainyBabe (talk) 09:17, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I would say "Liberal" and "Redneck" would be the comparable versions of those stereotypes. There are other versions - "NPR listner" and "Nascar Dad" would kinda fit too. But at least Daily Mail readers read...that's something you couldn't accuse that section of the US public of doing! SteveBaker (talk) 14:22, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps a New York Times reader and a Rush Limbaugh listener? Note that there are big differences between the political views of the Guardian and the NYT, but I've heard the phrase "New York Times-reader" to refer to East Coast liberal intellectuals. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 18:10, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Here are some of my own perhaps inaccurate perceptions of a couple of stereotype newspaper readers in the US (and I get these perceptions from having worked as a Reference Librarian at a busy urban Serials Desk for a number of years):

• People who subscribe to or read the "Wall Street Journal" are considered to be either very much into business, or are thought of as being politically moderate intellectuals.
• People who subscribe to or read the "New York Times" (especially people who do not live in New York) are considered to be liberal and highly enducated. Within New York City this distinction does not apply.
• People who subscribe to or read "The Washington Post" are considered to be very liberal, but perhaps not quite as sophisticated or intelligent as the New York Times readers.
• In Chicago (which is really two separate cities joined together) there are two major daily newspapers, each of which has its own very specific readership and stereotypical reader. The "Chicago Tribune" is more popular among readers on the city's North Side, and its readers are more middle class, traditionally conservative, and educated. The South Side paper is the "Chicago Sun Times", whose readership is more working class, traditionally liberal, and not-so-educated.

In the US there are also strong stereotypes that go along with news magazines such as the conservative "US News and World Report", or the liberal magazine "The Nation". -- Saukkomies 20:05, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Wall Street Journal readers are politically moderate? The paper's editorial stance sure doesn't reflect that. Corvus cornix_talk 21:32, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

To be clear, neither Chicago paper is explicitly marketed as a "North Side" paper or a "South Side" paper; they both cover the entire city. I'm a North Sider, but I've always read the Sun-Times. Zagalejo^^^ 22:10, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

As I mentioned, my reviews of readership of various papers was my own perception, and was not meant to be stated as fact. However, one person's Moderate is another person's Liberal - or Conservative. These terms are quite ambiguous. As far as the Chicago Trib and the Sun Times, I lived for years both on the South Side and the North Side of Chicago. If you live on the North Side it would quite easy to be unaware that the Southsiders consider the Sun Times to be "their paper", and that the Trib is the Northsider's. Northsiders are for the most part pretty oblivious to many of the nuances of Southside culture... Just an observation... -- Saukkomies 22:50, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, the South Siders may consider the Sun Times to be "their" paper, but I've never gotten the impression that it's specifically meant for them. The Sun-Times' North Side coverage tends to be comprehensive, and the letters to the editor come from all over the city. Zagalejo^^^ 04:07, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Newspapers in the United States are kind of different from the ones in the UK -- they tend to be regional near-monopolies, and there really isn't a "national" newspaper (please no one bring up USA Today). So most people read the newspaper from their city, or from the nearest large city, rather than one that reflects their political biases. The New York Times and Wall Street Journal do have some national readers for political reasons, but it's a very limited effect -- really Journal readers are more likely to take it because of its financial coverage than its politics.

Most large cities also have one or two free weekly newspapers, supported entirely by advertising. These usually (but not always) lean a bit further left than the mainstream papers, but lots of people (like me) who tend not to agree with their politics still enjoy reading them for their information about cultural happenings and alternative film. --Trovatore (talk) 21:56, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Trovatore is right. There is a limited national newspaper audience so comparisons are hard. But radio programs have wider reach. The Guardian reader transplanted to America would listen to NPR. While the expat Daily Mail reader would go with Rush Limbaugh. But what would the Tele subscriber listen to? lots of issues | leave me a message 23:28, 9 December 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lotsofissues (talk • contribs)

Fascinating speculation. Thank you all very much. BrainyBabe (talk) 07:39, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedians who are in school

For the hell of it I have been cruising around the user pages of those who edit here and have noticed that several wikipedians seem to be in school. Some make note of it on their user pages by leaving those little box things to broadcast the fact (couldn't find an example), some leave messages or template on thier names space to advise people of that fact (KiaraFan13 (talk · contribs) and MBK004 (talk · contribs), respectively), and some seem to have vanished to better deal with school (TomStar81 (talk · contribs)), and others seem to have left altogther because they couldn't handle the pressure (Omicronpersei8 (talk · contribs). Out of curisotiy, just how many wikipedians are in school, how many others have taken leave or quit do to school, and how many seem to have trouble dealing with both school and wikipedia? 75.39.197.219 (talk) 09:41, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia doesn't demand any information from editors - you can edit without logging in - and even if you do create an account, you don't have to provide any information whatever in order to do so. So we really don't know the age range of Wikipedians. You have to be careful about simply counting the number of users who self-identify as being in school because you're assuming that these people are as active as older Wikipedians - and that they spend as much time on productive editing as older people. To take your examples:

• KiaraFan13 has only made 79 edits in total - of which only 18 have been to actual articles - an amazing 121 edits by this user have been deleted!!
• MBK004 has clocked up around 6000 edits - but only 1000 of those were to articles - most of the rest was in talk pages and a negligable percentage which have been deleted.

Those are two very different editors! The first is new here - and evidently (from the number of deletions) having a hard time getting to grips with the way things work. The second appears to be a productive and active editor. Let's look at the two who dropped-out:

• TomStar81 has an amazing 14,000 edits more than half of which were to articles and WP pages.
• Omicronpersei8 clocked up an incredible 51,000 edits in about ONE YEAR, that's 140 edits per DAY! More amazingly still, this was not mere chit-chat. 31,000 of those edits (close to 100 edits per day!) were in articles.

They were both incredibly active. Sometimes, that level of activity borders on unhealthy obsession. Certainly, it's hard to imagine these people getting much else done. It's not surprising that sooner or later real-life kicks in and these very active people realise that there are other things in life and take a Wikibreak.

I now have 10,000 edits (which puts me into the top 2000 Wiki contributors...by this rather dubious measure) - but I've been here for three years - making for a much more healthy 10 edits per day average. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SteveBaker (talk • contribs) 14:16, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

So the unanswered question is now how many of these users have trouble dealing with wikipedia and school. I think the number is split about evenly, I have seen a number of users that ID as being in school but do not seem to leave for any length of time because of it, and the opposite extreme where people leave becuase the wiki consumes them. In an case, thank you for the answer. 129.108.227.171 (talk) 06:00, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Another reason these sortts of things are difficult to calculate is that young Wikipedians are often strongly encouraged not to reveal their ages (we don't want any "grooming" to go on here...). As such, it's very difficult to tell exactly how many wikipedians are of school age. Grutness...wha? 08:31, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

boxing

how much did tickets for the mayfield vs. hatton fight at the mgm sell for? RobertsZ (talk) 11:24, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

I found a press release saying the mayweather-hatton tickets were just under $1,000 for the "cheap" seats and $42,000 for ringside. Dave6 ^talk 08:23, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Organization

When I was very young growing up in the Polish neighborhood around St. Casimir Catholic Church, I was a member of the Parziki.(hnot sure about the spelling) The uniform consisted of a page boy type outfit. I'm looking for information on what the Parziki was all about. Also there was a similar group of girls but don't know what the name was that they used. Any information would be appreciated. Thank you, Jim Skrocki —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.61.50.213 (talk) 15:00, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps Związek Harcerstwa Polskiego— Polish Scouting Association? Not sure where you are located, but there is a parallel organization in the U.S.—see the links at the bottom of the article. --— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 15:24, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Doesn't sound like the ZHP, the scouting uniform looks different. I did a little bit of quick Googling but can't find anything related to the information you provided, sorry. 'd be happy to help in case you can add something new. Cheers, Ouro (blah blah) 18:45, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Scouting in Poland has a list of a dozen other scouting-like organisations. Maybe one of those rings a bell? SteveBaker (talk) 23:08, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

recycling of solid waste in India

In recycling we generally see four bins for different type of waste for sorting of waste.What are these colours of bins/boxes and in which type of colour which type of solid is put in? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.2.93.140 (talk) 17:51, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Can anybody read shorthand?

I posted this at the Language desk a week or so ago and nobody could read it. I thought I would try here, just to get a slightly different audience. Thanks.

I was doing some work in an archive today and among a bunch of regular writing I found this:

shorthand?

shorthand?

The author was an early/mid 20th-century American scientist—I am pretty sure it is shorthand? But I wasn't able to really figure out what the heck it meant, and I've never really done anything with shorthand before. Note that this is my re-copying of the original (as best I could!) so there might be little errors in it that are imperceptible to me, but it should be largely correct. No, I don't have the original scanned, but this is pretty much what it looked like.

I don't have much in way of context. It was in a list of responses from other scientists to a report. For this one it was just "<name> -- Re: Section IX: <shorthand>". I have no idea what it would likely be saying or even what it would be really referring to (I'm not sure which report it is talking about).

If anyone had any suggestions as to what it might say, I'd be very interested. I'm intrigued that it's the only thing in these archival papers that was written like this (everything else is just in English) and I'm pretty curious as to what it says. Thanks a ton. --Panoptik (talk) 18:33, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

That is definitely shorthand. My mother is "fluent" in it, and I'm about to leave for her house, so I'll let you know in a few hours (if no one else gets to it first). :) --Masamage ♫ 20:55, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

It is often difficult to read other people's shorthand, but I'd love to know. Hopefully Masamage's mother can work it. Steewi (talk) 03:26, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Okay, we've been poking at it for a while, and so far our best rough draft looks like "this save for (???) doctors/doors be for another(?) r-oo-g-t-s". Not too amazing; the difficulty is exactly what Stewi points out. "R oo g t s" really has us confused; is there a name that might be imitati ng? And what general field of science are these reports about?

Since you recopied it, could you maybe clarify a couple things from the original draft? For instance, when you wrote symbol 3, did you start from the top or the bottom? It makes a difference between 'th' and 'f'. Also, after the symbol with the long line and the loop (and the curve hovering over it), there's a very small line. Is that really a line, or is it a dot? And is that the correct angle? And how accurate is that hovering curve? Then, in the second-to-last symbol (the one that looks like 'or' in cursive), is the line coming from the top of the loop really curved, or is it straight? Finally, did you add the quotes around the thing, or are they present in the original?

Sorry for the deluge of questions. We'll look at it again tomorrow. :) --Masamage ♫ 07:39, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

A thought. If the quote marks are in the original, and it's in a list of responses from other scientists, might the scientist whose archive you're looking through have copied this from something someone else wrote, thus adding an extra layer of potential error? In which case, you'd have to get creative in interpreting it. Skittle (talk) 07:45, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Getting a photograph of the original would probably help the translators - shorthand is a very subtle thing - tiny variations can make a lot of difference. SteveBaker (talk) 12:18, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, that's a great start! "This save for" sounds very plausible as a response to a section in a report. Doctors/doors sounds a little odd and out of place. I'll think about what that might be. Could "be for" be "before"? As to your questions:

1. It's entirely possible the last part might be a name. Any possibility of it spelling GROVES? Just a thought. As for the general field of science, the report is in reference to early nuclear weapons policy. He's a physicist but in this capacity he's acting as an administrator.
2. Symbol 3: I really can't recall. It's probably a 50/50 toss up how I did it. You're probably better off assuming that it could go either way.
3. Long-line and loop: it looked pretty much like that. I'd assume it was a line though again since he was just writing this for himself and probably quickly so it might be a dot that he just let get too long or something.
4. I think the "or" looking thing was curved at the end. Note that the last symbol might have been a little less angular (I had trouble getting its shape exact, I think it might have been a bit more curved).
5. Quote marks were in the original.

Hope that might clarify a little bit? Anyway thank you and thank your mother for this, any effort at all is GREATLY appreciated and don't feel put out if my transcription of another guy's shorthand is illegible -- the odds are stacked against you, any meaning you can get from it at all is massively impressive! --Panoptik (talk) 15:08, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Sorry for the long delay in acknowledging this; the internet connection has been funky-tastic today. Mom's gone to bed, but I'll leave this window open tonight so that we can look at it more in the morning regardless of what the network's up to. It's been fun; she got out her old textbook and we've been digging around. And thanks for the extra info! That should help a lot. :) --Masamage ♫ 06:33, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Okay, here's kind of the layout of our best guesses so far at what might be. We're calling the straight-line-and-loop along with its attendant dashes "4"; 4a is the floating line, 4c is the small tailing line. 6 a and b are the two curving lines that look like they may or may not be intended to work together. Most of them have multiple possible meanings; the only one we're certain about is the first.

• 1: this
• 2: serve, save (written differently than one would ordinarily write these)
• 3: for, there, their
• 4a: the, there, their, trans-
• 4b: mit, meet, mate
• 4c: -ing, -ship
• 5: doctors, doors, directions, does
• 6a: be, by
• 6b: is, his, for?
• 7: akak? If the top of the loop is a straight line rather than a curve, this is "another"
• 8: roogits, rockets, rockguts, something else? Definitely not Groves. The key letters are either r-oo-g-t-s or r-k-g-t-s.

Some combinations of this almost make sense; one possibility is "this serves for transmitting directions be is another rockets", but that has several of the not-very-plausible possibilities, and even as a whole doesn't quite work. X) But based on the other things you've read, there might be some way to work it out? (Maybe it'll give you a clue what Section IX refers to?) --Masamage ♫ 00:54, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

"This save for their meeting (something)" sounds extremely plausible, and at the same time quite mundane (making it even more plausible). They had meetings planned for the future to discuss some of the things in this memo so maybe he was saying they should put this section off until they got together to talk about it. I'm thinking about the "name" at the end there. One of the people on this committee was named Ruhoff? Doesn't look like it works but is the only name I can think of that sounds like that. ANYWAY, thank you and your mother for your IMMENSE help, you have given me a lot of insight into something which was previously totally intelligible! --Panoptik (talk) 01:57, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

OK - I think I've got it! I'd say that for 4a/4b/4c, transmitting is just too good to pass up - none of the other combinations make any kind of sense. But 7...not "another" but "akak"...which is phonetically "Ack-ack" - which is anti-aircraft (guns/artillery/missiles). If we can ignore 6a (or maybe merge it with 6b)...then now you have "This serves for transmitting directions for antiaircraft rockets.". In the context of a meeting about nuclear weapons policy in the "early/mid 20th century" (you're talking about immediately post-WWII) - nuclear weapons were still be delivered by aircraft - and the risk of your nuclear-bomb-laden plane getting shot down by antiaircraft fire would have been a serious one. The term "ack-ack" would have been very common back then (nowadays we'd say "triple-A"). So I'd bet he's talking about some way to prevent enemy bombers from reaching their targets? SteveBaker (talk) 02:11, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

User:Elonka is, I understand, a professional cryptographer. Perhaps, especially given SteveBaker's ideas, she might be useful here. Bielle (talk) 02:47, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Oh, wow! Good call on the ack-ack--that has got to be what this is. :D Way to go! Unfortunately, transmitting really isn't that likely, because the 'ing' ending is generally represented by a dot, not a line, and apparently short-handers have it hammered into them never to make that kind of mistake. The little line appears to indicate the ending 'ship', which is weird. The thing over it is positioned like 'trans', but it's curved like 'the'. (Unless Panoptik curved it. ^_^) Which makes it tricky. "Transmitship"? (The ending 'sion' is an attached loop.) Also, mom says she really doesn't think 6b can reasonably be read as 'for'. Then there's the mystery of 6a, while 2 isn't plural and the last one really is weird. ?___? Leaves us with something like "This serve/save for transmitship directions be is antiaircraft rockgets." Which almost means something, but not quite. --Masamage ♫ 04:23, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

December 10

Amp question.

With an amp like a Line 6 amp, would different guitars sound different? My only experience with a Line 6 with test-driving my first electric (boy, that was a fun test drive! Three words: Distortion and tremolo!), and I'm just wondering, would different guitars sound different? MalwareSmarts (talk) 00:26, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

yes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.101.53.177 (talk) 05:43, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Help

Hi dose any body know 2 video games that was made from 1990-2005 1 is know or knot 2. talisman or talismans these games are fun —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wonderingaly (talk • contribs) 01:16, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Your going to need to learn how to write legible English before we can answer your question. Esskater11 01:34, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

That should be "You're going to need..." 64.236.80.62 (talk) 16:24, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Esskater, please don't be rude to people.

Wonderingaly, could you clarify your question a little? Do I understand that you are looking for one game made at some point between 1990 and 2005 that was called Know or was called Knot, and another game that was called Talisman or was called Talismans? Could you provide a little more detail about what you remember of these games? That would make it much easier. What machine did you play them on? What sort of games were they? Anything else? 79.77.13.195 (talk) 04:30, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

1990 to 2005 is a fairly long time in the history of video games. Can you narrow it down a little? Can you describe the gameplay at all? FiggyBee (talk) 06:18, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Talisman (video game) says there is a downloadable game that will be released soon and there was a game called Talisman for the ZX Spectrum released in 1985. No information so far on "Now or Not", "Know or Knot" or "Know or not". SaundersW (talk) 09:29, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Re-attachment of genitals

After being exposed to an unpleasant video clip of the "BME Pain Olympics", where the user ties up his genitals and voluntarily cuts it off, aside from a sensation of nausea, I became curious. Should one's testicles and penis be cut off, would it be possible surgically re-attach them (at a hospital of course)? If so, to what degree of success would the result take? As well, would there be a lot of blood loss? Please note the video is completely not-work safe and I recommend not even watching it. Acceptable (talk) 03:00, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

It has happened before. Lorena Bobbitt became famous for severing her husband's penis. It was reattached successfully (so I'm told). There are a lot of blood vessels in the human penis, so there would be quite a lot of blood loss, and would require a very careful and long amount of surgery. I don't know how useful it would be, afterwards, for all purposes, but it would at least function for urination. A man can still urinate after such an accident, I think, although he would not be able to do so standing. Another famous case was William Minor, a major contributor to the first edition of the Oxford English Dictionary, and long-term patient in a mental institution. Steewi (talk) 03:31, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

It seems there is an article - penis removal. Ouch! Please don't experiment. Steewi (talk) 03:32, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I hate you becuase now i must watch that video out of courioisty. Esskater11 03:35, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Steewi, it was useful enough for John Wayne Bobbitt to become a porn star afterwards! Adam Bishop (talk) 08:14, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Bobbit is a family name that Charles Dickens might have chosen for a character with a similar challenge. Edison (talk) 03:17, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

futures

how to address a group of professional employees on the subject "How studying about futures helps us in coping the world today?" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.88.234.42 (talk) 07:53, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I think more context is needed before any meaningful response can be given. Which profession are the audience in ? Which country are you in ? Which "futures" are you studying - do you mean social futures, economic futures, scientific futures, or something else ? There is a financial instrument called a futures contract - is this what you are studying ?? Gandalf61 (talk) 11:08, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Identifying an alcoholic beverage

File:Hromcikova horka11.jpg

I would appreciate your assistance in identifying this alcoholic beverage purchased in Brno yesterday and given to me as a present. Is this a traditional Xmas drink? I was told that it is sold to be drank worm on the street.--Golf Bravo (talk) 12:10, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

As+,

A spot of Googling indicates that this is a Czech beer with a taste of marzipan and almonds. If you happen to like beer, you better stick to Duff´s. Doh, --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 13:43, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

What is "As+"?--Golf Bravo (talk) 15:25, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

BTW, this beverage is not a beer! Although it is manufactured by a brewery.--Golf Bravo (talk) 19:15, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

It is a metheglin. DuncanHill (talk) 19:19, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Drank worm on the street. Maybe this beverage is a part of the Diet of Worms. :) (Sorry, this was unavoidable.) -- JackofOz (talk) 22:49, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. Medovina is a mead.--Golf Bravo (talk) 09:40, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

District Directors of the Immigration & Naturalization Service (now defunct)

The Immigration & Naturalization Service (INS) was folded into the Dept. of Homeland Security (DHS). I'd like to know how many of the District Directors (DDs) active pre-DHS (say, in 2000)had been in the Border Patrol I don't need names. A simple statement telling me that of the 35 or 36 there were X with Border Patrol experience.Adegorf (talk) 14:11, 10 December 2007 (UTC)Adegorf

XM Fund

Hi,

My dream job would be to be a hedge fund manager. I have been able to consistantly outpreform the S&P 500, and have just recently gained investment selection control for a small partnership--I'm already beating the S&P 500 by a about 7-10% so far. I would like to know how I can use this record and perhaps gain a position as hedge fund manager (or to gain angel investors) without having any formal education in the area (I'm an automath with regard to investing) XM (talk) 17:24, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

It's hard to get a finance job without a diploma in the field. Demonstrated success in this area, at least, enough success to get someone to hire you, would probably make it a moot point -- you'd have to score a lot of money without minimal losses, at which point you'd probably just want to keep rolling in the cheese until you could retire without needing a job. Your best bet would probably be to try and get at least an MBA and then use your record as resume. That said, call some hedge funds, talk to their human resource managers, and see what they think; their ideas of what would impress them are vastly more important than ours :) Good luck! Faithfully, Deltopia (talk) 18:20, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

How much volume do you transfer to make the 7-10%? This is very significant. Its not that hard to make 100%'s in small volumes and even 10% - 30% for volumes of several million. But when you start going beyond this, your trades do not have negligable effect on the market anyway more, which is why big companies with billions struggle to even get a few percent. The best way is to simple invest your own money.--Dacium (talk) 22:46, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

~$20k or so.XM (talk) 21:01, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Truck engine / radio interference

I have a portable XM satellite radio receiver that I can move between my two vehicles, as well as use in a small "boombox" unit in the house. Both vehicles have the same mounting unit / adapter which has a connector for the antenna, a 12VDC power source that goes into the cigarette lighter, and a minijack output. In my car, I connect a cassette adapter to the output and insert the cassette into the car's stereo and everything is OK. The stereo in my pickup truck has an input jack on the face, so I just have short mini-to-mini cable connecting the XM unit. In the truck, there is contantly a whiny/buzzy sound, which gets higher in frequency as the RPMs of the engine increase. Is there something I can plug in somewhere amongst all the connections to make the noise go away? NB: I can't switch to the cassette adapter, because the truck's in-dash unit has no tape capability. --LarryMac | Talk 20:43, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

There are two possibilities:

1. That the 12 volt supply from the accessory socket in your truck is producing a 'noisy' output (very common) and the XM radio has poor power filtering (which would be most reprehensible in something intended to be mounted in a car). If you can run the XM radio from an internal battery and disconnect the 12v input, then if the noise goes away when you do that, then this is likely to be the reason. If that is so, then you need some filtering on the aux input. I believe you can get a gizmo to do this in your local car parts store...if you are somewhat handy with electronics then sticking an appropriate capacitor across the 12volt outlet ought to fix it.
2. It might be that the wire from the XM radio into the trucks input jack is picking up noise from the engine's electrical system. In this case, you probably need better shielding on the wire - you could try (just to see) wrapping some kitchen foil around the wires and perhaps touching a corner of the foil to a bare metal part on the truck body (an exposed screw head or something). It's also possible that the ground wire in your cable is broken or making poor contact so that the only ground connection between the XM radio and the truck's sound system is going the long way around through the 12volt outlet, through the body of the truck and thence to the truck's audio system. Doing the 'running the XM radio from a battery' test would make the radio signal disappear entirely if the wire were broken. Either way, buy another cable - ideally, one with a coaxial cable so that the grounded shielding can better shield the audio signal.

SteveBaker (talk) 22:18, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

All good advice, except an RF choke in the 12V is usual instead of a capacitor at the socket, I'd say. You can get noise filter kits at any auto parts store, but don't be too disappointed if you never solve the problem 100%. Some vehicles are just very noisy that way. Some people even go so far as to replace their spark plug wires with ones designed to suppress RF interference. --Milkbreath (talk) 22:39, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I wondered about that - but this is a digital satellite box - I don't think it's prone to RF interference. I suspect it's more likely to be audio-frequency interference - and for that, a capacitor might be a better choice. I agree that it may be tough to get a 100% fix though. But I bet you can get it "good enough" with some simple tricks. You'd learn a lot about the problem by running the XM radio on batteries. SteveBaker (talk) 00:47, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Right. If the noise is there on batteries, it's RF. The RF is heard as an audio fequency because it's coming from a device (almost certainly the ignition system) that is sending out bursts of RF at an audio rate which are more or less accidentally detected and rectified amplified in the victim device. --Milkbreath (talk) 01:55, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, guys, I'll try to throw together some kind of battery pack together as soon as I can. Work is insane this week. --LarryMac | Talk 20:02, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Also, try cleaning the battery terminals. --Mdwyer (talk) 22:51, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia caught in Iceland White House Scandal

Just heard on FOX News, CNN that some Iceland national got hold of the SECRET phone No.# to the White House, and Google and Wikipedia is involved. Can this be placed in appropriate articles ? This scandal JUST HAPPENED. 65.163.115.114 (talk) 22:48, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

We alredy have material on this here. DuncanHill (talk) 22:50, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

This really doesn't need to be 'placed in appropriate articles' - it's a news story - it's not material for an encyclopedia. Even though it talks about Wikipedia itself, that doesn't give it any special notability - read WP:ASR. SteveBaker (talk) 02:55, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

It's not much of a story - it looks like the kid used Wikipedia to get some biographical information on the current President of Iceland. So what? -- Arwel (talk) 07:51, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

This anon is totally obsessed with following "breaking news" that JUST HAPPENED on Fox, no matter how insignificant. He writes like this frequently. He's annoying but harmless, don't worry about it. Adam Bishop (talk) 17:03, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Ice Storm nails Oklahoma, other states

Can any of this be placed in appropriate articles ? Seen this on The Weather Channel, FOX News, CNN, some of the local channels. The event is still going on. 65.163.115.114 (talk) 23:30, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Has anyone pointed you to WikiNews before? While run-of-the-mill weather isn't really encyclopedic, it is news-worthy, and writing about it would be most suitable there. I've noticed that this distinction is often appropriate for the current events you see on CNN, etc. — Lomn 13:37, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Did you even read the answers to your previous question? The answer is the same. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia - it is not a newspaper. They are not at all the same kind of beast! If we wrote articles about every storm going on everywhere in the world, we'd be adding about 10,000 articles a day just about the weather in various parts of the world! There is no point in looking at the News every day on TV and wondering why every single news story isn't in Wikipedia. Granted some very major events may warrant an article. Hurricanes that hit landfall in inhabited areas are generally going to get an article - and sometimes, the story is written as events unfold - but that's not typically the case. Articles about newsworthy subjects are quite commonly still being researched and written about years after they happened. One article I contribute to (Alexander Litvinenko poisoning) wasn't started until a month after the event happened and is still being edited fairly frequently an entire year later. If these ice storms turn into something very major with hundreds of deaths or major cities being crushed under the weight of ice - then maybe we should consider writing about it - but there is no hurry...quite the opposite in fact. With a space of time between the event and the writing, we can take a more dispassionate view of the events - look at all of the analysis people did as to the causes - treat it as a piece of history - not as something that is uniquely important to us right here and now. An encyclopedia is there for people who want to know about this event in a year, ten years or a hundred years from now. People who want to know whether it's OK to drive to their parents house in Oklahoma tomorrow shouldn't be trying to do that using an encyclopedia for chrissakes - it's about as relevent as trying to find a recipe for chocolate chip cookies by looking up "cookie" in a dictionary! So, please - stop posting these kinds of question every time you see something interesting in the news! SteveBaker (talk) 16:48, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Cunnilingus and Fingering

Whenever I perform oral sex and/or finger my girlfriend, she stops me before she achieves an orgasm, saying that she has an intense feeling to urinate. This is particularly true when I stimulate her g-spot. She is afraid she is going to urinate on me, but as far as I can tell that sensation is normal, and is often supposed to happen. But if we continue would it result in her urinating on me? Or is perhaps the sensation due to ejaculatory fluids about to come out of the urethra? I don't know too much about all of this stuff, and I'm not particularly excited about doing a field test if she will end up peeing on me. Thanks for the help. --71.98.23.145 (talk) 23:27, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

It sounds like she could be afraid of having a female ejaculation. Rockpocket 00:46, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Well she's never had an orgasm before, and doesn't know what it feels like. She tells me she thinks she's going to pee all over me. Will she, or is it most likely female ejaculation? --71.98.23.145 (talk) 01:08, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

You do know that urine is normally sterile, right? In any case, the pressure on the bladder may be coming from a different direction, as Rockpocket correctly states. Dan Savage has covered this topic [[9], as have numerous other sex writers. Any good sex manual will describe and explain the phenomenon. (I suppose that is an example of the no true Scotsman fallacy.) BrainyBabe (talk) 07:26, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps the best way to solve this would be to encourage your girlfriend to ensure she empties her bladder (in the traditional way) before you begin your sexual activity. Then give it a go and see what happens. Ultimately, no-one can tell you what will happen for sure, if it is a concern for you both you could always discuss it with your doctor. Rockpocket 19:38, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the link BrainyBabe, but I couldn't find which article you were talking about. I enjoyed reading Savage Love anyways (I usually get my fill from The Onion). And Rockpocket, I suppose that is what we are going to try, thanks for the advice. But lol don't worry, this isn't medical advice and we'll go to the doctor if we have any concerns. I suppose my main question was answered though: that it's normal for a woman to feel like she is going to urinate when the g-spot is stimulated. --71.117.35.87 (talk) 21:22, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

I am sorry that the deep link I provided earlier didn't connect you. I've tried copying and pasting but to no avail. Just go to the "Savage Love" homepage and search for "female ejaculation" -- I tested it and it works fine. BrainyBabe (talk) 08:36, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Glad to hear it, 71... Good luck to you both, my money is on you avoiding a accidental golden shower and your GF having a rather enjoyable evening! Rockpocket 19:30, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks once again BrainyBabe, I found it and it answered my question. Hahaha gross Rocket. You've got an interesting sense of humor. lol --71.186.16.100 (talk) 02:08, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Odd characters

How on earth do I type a lowercase "s" with a dot over it? I don't have one in my special characters, and I can't figure out how to do it in unicode. 138.192.86.254 (talk) 23:31, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Is there such a character? What's it used for? In what language? SteveBaker (talk) 00:43, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps the page Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Unicode) (draft) could help? I don't know a lot about unicode, but that page displays a large number of odd characters that I am able to simply copy and paste elsewhere. The S and s letters with dots over (and under, and both as well!) are shown in the section "Latin extended additional", and perhaps elsewhere too. Let's see if it works here: Ṡ and ṡ -- yes, no? Looks right to me. That's using Template:Unicode, in case it isn't obvious. Pfly (talk) 01:02, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

P.S., the Dot (diacritic) page might be useful too. The Diacritic page contains links to lots of similar pages. Unicode Phonetic Symbols might be a useful jumping off point too. Pfly (talk) 01:06, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

If it is for typing a particular language rather than say, for maths, and if you are using Windows XP (lots of ifs...) then you can set up your keyboard using control panel, regional and language options, language tab, details, add (pick the language you want) and setting up the language bar on your dek top. That way you can switch into the mode that has the s-dot when you need it. This page [10] will then help you to find where the appropriate key is lurking! (well, I looked to see what language it could be, and couldn't identify it from the keyboard, so I checked here Alphabets derived from the Latin and couldn't find it either, so scrub all the above. I've left the post though because it might be interesting to somebody else!) SaundersW (talk) 11:20, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

The language is Sioux, the word is "Tiyospaye" as used in Deloria's book "Waterlily." Thank you all for your help. 138.192.86.254 (talk) 17:32, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

master bateman

2 questions:

• Too much masturbation=bad side effects?
• Circumsised= less pleasure? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.23.77.208 (talk) 23:51, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

For your first question, it depends how much. Masturbating will not harm you in any way, unless you're doing it too rough and injure yourself. Myths used to suppose that masturbating too much would cause blindness, acne, or baldness, but these have been proven false. In short, you can masturbate as often as you like, and if you're gentle enough there will be no negative physical side effects.

For your second question, different people say different things. Some males who were circumsized in adulthood claim that it feels less pleasurable to have sex, others claim it has had no effect at all. If it does make a difference, it would be negligible--that area is so packed with nerves it's going to be very sensitive and feel very pleasurable no matter what. Basically, it's very subjective and we can't give you a definite answer. --71.98.23.145 (talk) 00:07, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

I'd say there's a decent chance of condoms giving you a problem if you're uncircumcised, though. The extra layer might prevent the foreskin from pulling back fully. 138.192.86.254 (talk) 00:17, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

We evolved that little fold of skin for a reason. Chopping it off is mutilation and I predict that one day, it'll be regarded in the same way as female genital mutilation. SteveBaker (talk) 00:42, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

It is already so regarded by many people, and has been for a long time. -- JackofOz (talk) 00:44, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

...though there are genuine cases where it's a good idea. Mine was removed after phimosis became a problem in early childhood. Thankfully my only memories of the period are of a single home visit from a doctor, getting anaesthetised, and of the (quite painful) bruising coming up after bathing for the first time. GeeJo ^(t)⁄_(c) • 23:49, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Oh, and I recall hearing a piece of trivia that a certain Antarctic expedition refused to take circumcised men on the grounds that the extra bit of "padding" made all the difference when it came to frostbite. The story may or may not be apocryphal, though :) GeeJo ^(t)⁄_(c) • 23:49, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Guys:

So you won't lose the ability to feel sexual sensation or anything? Like, its not necessarily supposed to tingle with excitement every time its touched by the self, right?

And let's say you, to put this lightly, dry hump once a day and use your hand once a day as well. All of this won't damage or kill the nerves?

I'd say this information all wasn't for me, but, to be frank, you can't see me, so... :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.23.77.208 (talk) 00:51, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Actually it's been shown that, in moderation, male masturbation is physically beneficial for you (beyond the obvious pleasure benefits). Men who go for long periods in their life without ejaculating are more prone to prostate problems, including prostate cancer. As regards the circumcision question, well, "less pleasure" is subjective as it's arguable that not all the pleasure of sex is physical. Less sensitive would be more correct. But yes, in the majority of cases there is some degree of loss of sensitivity of the glans in circumcised men. This is primarily due to 2 reasons. The first one being that the constant rubbing of the glans against underwear over a period of time will ultimately reduce the sensitivity of the nerve endings. The other consideration is that the glans is not skin per se, it's a membrane that should be kept moist. This is the purpose of the foreskin, so when the foreskin is removed then so is its natural moisturising function. This results in the glans drying out to various degrees, this in turn also affects the nerve endings. There is also a combination answer to the combining of your questions. Masturbation of a circumcised penis and an uncircumcised one has to involve different techniques whereby the skin on the shaft of the penis has to take the place as a stand-in foreskin. Over-energetic, errr, errr, "downstrokes" can actually result in splitting the frenulum and/or the skin on the dorsal side of the penis where the shaft meets the glans (where there will be scar tissue from the circumcision op). --WebHamster 04:33, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Masturbation is in itself perfectly harmless, of course, but it is worth noting that any activity carried out to excess (i.e. to the exclusion of normal life) can have negative side effects. Drinking water is a good thing, for example, but it is possible to die from drinking way way way too much water (as Leah Betts is believed to have done, in a misguided attempt to protect herself from the effects of ecstasy). Likewise with masturbation. Sean Thomas wrote a book called Millions of Women Are Waiting to Meet You, a memoir of internet dating (ISBN 978-0306815485), in which he confesses to having masturbated himself into hospital: he was spending so much time with online porn that he forgot to sleep, and got run-down, and caught a (non-sexual) infection, and ended up as an in-patient. I suppose it is all a question of the wank/life balance.

I read of a study that attempted to answer the subjective question of pleasure and circumcision. In the 1990s many Russian Jews immigrated to Israel; many men decided to have circumcisions as adults, not having been circumcised as infants. The researchers leapt upon this cohort, as you can imagine. And the results? When the men were asked to report their sexual pleasure several months after the operation, a third said it was better, a third said it was worse, and a third said there was no difference.

By the way, the general question about masturbation and self-harm goes equally for girls and women as it does for boys and men: perfectly harmless, and may indeed confer health benefits. BrainyBabe (talk) 07:18, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

December 11

XXX

May I ask why, Pornography is sometimes abbreviated with these letters. It doesn't make sense to me. Esskater11 04:16, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

X-rated#United States. "Some even started using multiple X's (i.e. XX, XXX, etc.) to give the impression that their film contained more graphic sexual content than the simple X-rating." FiggyBee (talk) 05:49, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Note that XXX, centred at the bottom of the page, also used to be used to indicate the end of a (typewritten) article draft submitted by a reporter, in the days of a press card in the old fedora hat. This then became, in a twist of humour, --30--. BrainyBabe (talk) 06:57, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

In the old cinema classification system used in the UK, prior to ?1975, the X-rated films were those that were prohibited for viewers under 18 years of age. They invariably contained scenes of a strong sexual nature or extreme violence. The multiplication of the X to XXX is perhaps the result of modern inflation. Richard Avery (talk) 08:56, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

According to History of British film certificates the X-certificate lasted till 1982, and before 1970 meant the film was restricted to over-16s. I don't think it's true to say that X-films contained 'invariably contained scenes of a strong sexual nature or extreme violence' - they were just those considered 'unsuitable for children'. For example, several of my contemporaries managed to see The Graduate when they were 15. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 09:19, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

According to the OED, X, XX, and XXX have been used to designate increasingly potent varieties of alcoholic drinks since at least 1827. Pfly (talk) 09:42, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

And according to popular legend, the Queensland beer XXXX (or Four-X) is so called because they can't spell "beer". :) -- JackofOz (talk) 11:23, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

I think that both FiggyBee and Pfly are correct. Partly the XXX is due to the use of the X rating in the U.S., and partly it is due to the use of XXX in the distilling of spirits. The reason that XXX came to be used by distillers was primarily due to the making of Moonshine, which is whiskey (or other alcoholic spirits) made without a government license. The best Moonshine was run through a distillation process more than once - three times being considered very good quality. Each time a batch of Moonshine was distilled, the Moonshiners would place an X on the jars containing that batch. So three Xs on the outside of a jar of Moonshine would indicate that it had been distilled three times. This became integrated into popular American culture so that three Xs would be synonymous with Moonshine, which is of course illegal. So, by taking the X movie rating and turning it into a triple X, the porn industry was making a tongue-in-cheek joke about their film - that it was borderline illegal, and that it was very potent stuff. -- Saukkomies 07:54, 11 December, 2007. (UTC)

Do some female bodybuilders have YouTube accounts?

I'm just wondering...do some female bodybuilders have YouTube accounts? And if there are, list me some of them. Not trying to be weird. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sirdrink13309622 (talk • contribs) 05:39, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

You've failed at trying not to be weird, though. However, I have taken the liberty of Googling a bit, you can start here. --Ouro (blah blah) 18:45, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Was there anything hard about typing "Female bodybuilder" into Youtube? [11] SaundersW (talk) 20:51, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Video Game Death

I was recently playing Halo 3 online deathmatch over X-Box live with a buddy and as he kept dying he started getting extremely frustrated and began adamantly claiming that it was completely random whether he died or the other guy did in close fights. It seems to me that whatever game mechanism decides who "wins" in a given situation would at least be internally consistent, and knowing that we have at least one resident video game programmer I was hoping someone could shed some light on whether or not this is true. So, all things being equal, is it as random as he seems to think, or are his lack of skills to blame? Azi Like a Fox (talk) 06:40, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, random chance is internally consistent. But I would imagine that the battles in Halo go like this. Each part of the body has a max potential damage rating, e.g. with guns that shoot bullets only the head has the max potential damage of death. You factor that in with the max damage of the gun, you will get a value that max damage the gun can cause with one shot. As to his claim that "it was completely random whether he died or the other guy did in close fights", in a small number of trials you will not be able to determine whether this is true or not. But as the number of games goes up (and as the outcomes remain the same), it becomes increasingly unlikely that random chance is involved. He is most likely right that there's an element of chance, but it is no more justified to claim that poker is random chance as it is Halo 3 battles. In each situation, there are probabilities at play, but you can also change the probabilities with skill.--droptone (talk) 12:32, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

(Yeah - I'm the resident ref-desk game programmer) I can't claim to know how Halo is programmed and I don't work for Bungee/Microsoft (and if I did, I probably wouldn't be allowed to talk about it) - but on general principles, you don't introduce randomness into something that's human-skill based. You add randomness to introduce variety into an otherwise 'canned' situation, the AI opponents don't always hit when they shoot - so randomness is probably added for them. But there is simply no need to do that when humans are in there aiming and mashing buttons. There is always some 'randomness' introduced by the network 'ping time' of your computer/console and (if you were playing on a PC), your computer's frame rate. If your communication back to the Halo server is slow then the rate and the precision at which your button presses reach the server may be poorer than the person you are playing against. Networking software is really unable to do much about that.

But "he kept dying" is not an indication that any of these things are the case. Perhaps the other player is simply better at aiming than he is? Perhaps your opponent is better at aiming at moving targets? Maybe your friend isn't doing a good job of making use of cover and dodging when necessary? If it was completely random, he would die roughly half the time - but then if he was playing against an evenly matched opponent, he'd die half the time too. How could he possibly tell which it was? If he's dying MORE than half the time then it's really unlikely that it's random because if it was, it would be random for both players and he'd still have a 50/50 chance. So if he's dying MORE than half the time then for sure he's a less good player than his opponent. If we need to sooth his ego, then we could suggest that perhaps his opponents are getting better ping times. I don't know about Halo - but games like Doom and Quake always let you know what your ping time was to each of the available servers - and you'd be well-advised to pick the server with the shortest ping time. If Halo doesn't let you choose - then it's probably picking the best one for you automatically.

SteveBaker (talk) 13:05, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

"but on general principles, you don't introduce randomness into something that's human-skill based", Steve? Of course you do - at least as far as first person shooters are concerned. Most games will have some sort of randomised inaccuracy built into each weapon - learning how to use each weapon in the most efficent way is part of the skillset that players need. So yes, all other things (the weapons used, the skill and reactions of the players, the evenhandedness of the situation, ping times) being equal, and unless both players in a firefight can kill each other at the same time (which can happen in some games but not others, depending on how the bullet flight is modelled) it is going to be random who wins - how else could it be? FiggyBee (talk) 16:11, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Yeah - actually, you're probably right about weapon inaccuracy. (I should explain that I'm a graphics guy - shooting and multiplayer stuff isn't my speciality). I guess what I really meant was that you don't introduce randomness unnecessarily and arbitarily in the sense that the OP's friend seems to imagine. Simulating a real weapon does indeed require a bit of randomness - but it's not like the game flips a coin to decide who lives and who dies. But in the end, even if there was no randomness in the game at all - it would still SEEM random because of variance of ping times - and because (as you say) someone has to win - even in a closely matched game - because humans are human and our performance is never 100% consistent. SteveBaker (talk) 16:27, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

This necessary low-level randomness, though, should not be construed as saying that Azi's friend is right in that high-level Halo conflicts are determined randomly. From the player level, skill is absolutely a major factor, drastically overriding the game's randomness. As Droptone noted above, both weapon type and hit location are used by Halo to factor damage. For the specific case, Halo's melee combat is particularly effective if you hit someone in the head -- I've got a friend who's quite good at this, so I just don't get into close combat with him any more. This may be part of what Azi's friend is running into. — Lomn 16:38, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

I think you might be on to something Lomn, my friend's frustrations definitely seemed connected to losing melee battles and I was unaware of that fact about hit location. Anyways, thanks everyone who answered, very helpful / interesting. Azi Like a Fox (talk) 05:02, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

"Seventeen" and Iraq war?

Does the number 17 have any particular significance to the Iraq war prior to November 8 2006 (which was before the Blackwater shooting)? NeonMerlin 06:52, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

What are you talking about? If it's some sort of numerological question, know that you can find "significance" in any number if you start searching for coincidences left and right. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 15:28, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

I have no clue what you're driving at, but try 17. --Milkbreath (talk) 16:42, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

This is a long shot, but are you referring to "Seventeen" by Machinae Supremacy? If so, the title of that song was a working title (because it was the 17th song they had recorded or were working on at the time), and they ended up keeping the name when they released it. Lead band member Robert Stjärnström explains in a post on the official forum: Re: Why is 17 called 17?. --Bavi H (talk) 07:17, 12 December 2007 (UTC).

Ah, that would explain it. NeonMerlin 02:13, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

For a longer shot - is it possible you're thinking of 19? If so, that has a strong connection with the Vietnam war following the very, very famous song 19 - which echoed a claim that an average American soldier in Vietnam was nineteen years old. SteveBaker (talk) 02:18, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

The Doors

A non English friend asked my what the doors were singing about when they mention :...wallow in the myre... Now I was sutably embarresed that I could not answer this and so have been doing a little research. Dictionary.com describes Myre as a small insect. I doubt the doors did much wallowing in small hard working insects. So what is a Myre(spelling might be a bit off)Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.191.136.2 (talk) 13:40, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

"Mire" is another word for mud (eg "mired boots" = "muddy boots"). A Mire, like "Grimpen Mire" in "The Hound of the Baskervilles" is a marsh or bog (on Dartmoor). Wallowing in mud is a pastime recommended by Flanders and Swan SaundersW (talk) 13:46, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

. . but only if you're a hippopotamus. All together - "Follow me, Follow..... Richard Avery (talk) 16:25, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Aw, Richard, why can only the hippopotamus enjoy that? SaundersW (talk) 17:16, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

This topic refers to The Doors, by the way. Edison (talk) 17:22, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Sizes of Wiktionary and Wikipedia in different languages

I am somewhat struck by how much bigger the English Wikipedia is than the other language Wikipedias (which I would expect), while the French Wiktionary (French Wikipedia is 3rd largest) is larger than English Wiktionary. Also, German Wikipedia is 2nd largest, but German Wiktionary is much smaller than the others. Is there a good reason for this?--Filll (talk) 14:34, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Doing a bit more investigation myself, I see some information on Wiktionary. English and French have traded the lead over time. A lot of the entries on both the English and French versions come from bot entries and public domain dictionaries. What is curious to me is that the German version has not done this as well. Are there no bots in the German version? Is the German language less amenable to the use of these bots? Are there no public domain German dictionaries to steal from?--Filll (talk) 15:07, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

French is an unusual (perhaps unique) language in that there is a legally sanctioned body who administer it. The Académie française is a government run group of about 40 people who rule on what is legally French and what is the work of evil foreigners. They meet regularly to sanction what French words will be used for things like new terminology for computers and to provide alternatives for (typically) English words that are creeping into common usage. Hence, for example, the commonly used French word "Parking" (meaning exactly what you'd expect it to mean) is not legal French and does not appear on (for example) road signs. Instead there is some much longer phrase that's been deemed acceptable by the "language police". Anyway, that means that there is an "official" dictionary: The Dictionnaire de l'Académie française - and I vaguely recall that it's free of copyright (it's certainly available for free online) - and therefore may have been the basis of the French Wiktionary. There is no equivelent document in English or German and any free input that either of those Wiktionaries may have gotten wouldn't be as comprehensive as the Academie dictionary. However, there are only about 30,000 words in Academie-sanctioned French (although French Wiktionary isn't bound by their rules - so they may well have more). By contrast, the complete Oxford English Dictionary has about a third of a million words. On that basis alone, sooner or later, I'd expect English Wiktionary to trample the French one into the dust! SteveBaker (talk) 16:14, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

German does have the Duden, although that is not quite the same as the Académie. It's more official than the OED though. Adam Bishop (talk) 16:58, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Great info, SteveBaker! I wanted to add that the English language has by far the largest vocabulary (sheer number of words) of any other language in the world, and probably in the history of the world. Because it depends on what one might consider to be an actual "English" word, it is difficult to come up with a single answer as to precisely how many words there are in the English language, but most people seem to think it is almost 1,000,000 words link. That's a LOT! Compare this with German, which has a vocabulary of about 185,000, and French with fewer than 100,000 link. This is due in part to the fact that English is a Germanic language that acquired a lot of Romantic language words, thus creating an incredibly rich diversity of words that may be used to describe things. An example of this is the following collection of words that describe a similar thing: Regal, Royal, Sovereign, Kingly, Kinglike, Monarchical, Monarchal, Purple, Noble, Majestic, Crowned, Imperial, Aristocratic, Blue-Blooded, Honorable, Lordly, Stately, Highborn, August, Coroneted, and Patrician. Because there are so many ways to describe the same thing, English words typically carry with them a lot more specific and more subtle meanings than is the case in most other languages. This is not to say that other languages do not also have many words with subtle meanings, but English has more of them, and English speakers use them more frequently, due to the fact that we just have so many more words to choose from.

The reason that English is so huge is due to the fact that for a variety of reasons, English speakers have had no qualms against picking up foreign words and phrases and making them their own. There is also a very strong tendency to create new words in order to be more fashionable - be it that one is trying to be more "hip" or "cool", or to be more "brainy" and "sophisticated". Knowing and using the latest and most impressive words imparts great status to the typical English speaker, whileas in other languages such blatant use of new-fangled words is often frowned upon. Although English has lots of problems for the non-English speaking person to try to learn (such as horrid spelling rules and a huge number of colloquialisms), it is by far the most powerful language to have ever existed on the planet, including Greek and Latin, which English has almost subsumed as its own. -- Saukkomies 15:43, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Please note that the "Global Language Monitor" you link to has been discredited by respected linguists. 64.236.80.62 (talk) 16:34, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Good point. It looks like languagemonitor is a bit suspect. The Acadamie Francaise also does not quite have as much clout as many claim, from my investigations (I also speak French). Also, if you include various technical terms, English might easily have more than 10 million words.--Filll (talk) 18:16, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

The problem with all of these measures is that very few speakers know anything like that number of words. It's been claimed that an average high school graduate can understand a total vocabulary of 25,000 to 35,000 words - but use less than a third of that number in their own speech and writings. It's pointless having many more words than that because most of them will not be understood by the vast proportion of the population - and clearly we can communicate perfectly comfortably with less than 10,000 words. Obviously we all have various subject-specific vocabularies that don't entirely overlap between speakers. SteveBaker (talk) 02:08, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Pewter

Hi, what can you tell me about Mayflower Pewter, such as dates, origin etc. Regards Coral —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.188.62.218 (talk) 15:08, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

This question has been answered above (See December 6 "Plate") with specific reference to the external site provided in the last line of the answer. Bielle (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 18:52, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

ten million times

it happens over ten million times in a year?what is it 1.am not sure but cud it be either a human breathing or blinking(thats what google gave me) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.49.77.226 (talk) 15:54, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

There are about 31 million seconds in a year. So this would be something that happens to a person roughly every three seconds? I would imagine blinking would be it. Breathing is more like once a second, heartbeats don't work either. SteveBaker (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 15:59, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

See Blink though. According to the article, "women and men do not differ in their rates of spontaneous blinking, averaging around 10 blinks per minute in a laboratory setting". So suppose the average period awake per day is 18 hours ... 10 * 60 * 18 * 365 = 3,942,000 so either a) maybe not or b) poor question or c) whatever that might be. --Tagishsimon (talk) 16:07, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

The article Respiratory rate suggests adult humans breathe from 12 to 20 breaths per minute, not the "once per second" SteveBaker gave above. (I think he must have been on the treadmill at the time. :-)) That's a breath every 3 seconds, at the fast end, and thus about 10 million breaths in a 31 million-second year. Bielle (talk) 18:15, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Yeah - what was I thinking? But as you say, one breath every 3 seconds is at the high end - it would be less on the average - so you'd be unlikely to hit 10 million per year. Blinking doesn't work either since you don't blink when you're asleep and (according to the article blink) two to ten seconds is typical. 10 million per year is too many for blinking too. SteveBaker (talk) 19:30, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

I find nothing so silly as the influx of poorly-written riddles the Reference Desk gets. Usually they are poorly worded to begin with and of extremely dubious veracity anyway. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 18:28, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree - my first thought was "What happens in the entire universe as few as 10 million times a year?" but since that's unanswerable and unlikely to be what was wanted, I observed that the OP thought it was to do with humans. I was still thinking in terms of perhaps the world-wide birth rate (nope, not even close, it's gotta be ten times that) or the rate of car accidents (better). But since the OP seemed basically happy with blinking and breathing...I thought it best to determine the time interval (about once every 3 seconds) and go from there. But (as usual) if you read the question too closely, it says "OVER 10 million times a year" - so almost any reasonably frequent process would do. Uranium atom fissions? Dung beetle fatalities? Cases of someone hiccuping a prime number of times? Trees falling in the forest - but not making a sound? Stars going supernova? That way lies madness! As I've said before, these "riddles" generally rely on someone who thinks they've come up with an amazing fact attempting to impress everyone else with an answer that the others will never think of. Since the audience is very often stunned into not thinking about it and immediately saying "I have no idea" - the person phrasing the "riddle" can feel superior. If a bunch of people such as those of us who hang out here were replying ("The number of cases of someone hiccuping a prime number of times?"), the riddler would very soon lose interest in trying to tie the question down tightly enough so that only the one single answer he'd thought of would fit it. Oh well, you've gotta go with what you've got. SteveBaker (talk) 19:30, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

vegan plus meat

Friend have been demi-veggie for many years (lacto-ovo vegetarian plus fish and shellfish). Their first child had severe allergies to shellfish, peanuts, tree nuts, and eggs, but gradually outgrew all but the first two. With the second child they followed the advice "no milk before one, no eggs before two, no nuts before three" (that's years, not o'clock, by the way). The baby has indeed proved to be severely allergic to milk. A vegan diet with no nuts would be a real challenge to this family. There are lots of online resources for people thinking of becoming vegetarian, but not much for those moving the other way. I tried googling "vegan plus meat", a phrase I have heard used before now, but got nowhere. Any ideas? I am NOT asking for dietary advice per se -- just guidance to where I can educate myself on how to change one's digestive habits, taste buds, kitchen systems, etc. to meet current needs. BrainyBabe (talk) 17:09, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

I couldn't find much (beyond inane Yahoo! Answers), except that there appears to be a name for what you are considering: Flexitarianism. Rockpocket 20:13, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Broadening what vegetables are eaten may be worth a try. Aside from the usual supermarket fare of carrots, celery, broccoli etc which get old pretty fast, there's some great possibilities with lentils (e.g. veggie samosas), chickpeas (hummus), black bean & quinoa salad, refried beans with red rice to name a few of my favorites. Also, are the seafood items as fresh as possible? The challenge of sticking to fish instead of meat is acquiring it in an acceptably-fresh state, which may not be easy if you live in a small inland community. Vranak (talk) 21:00, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

If the nutrition in question is that of a child's, a nutritionist should be consulted before adding/cutting entire categories out of their diets. It's more important if a baby gets all of the nutrition they need than it is for an adult (their brain is still forming and their bodies are quiet vulnerable), and I wouldn't try to institute a vegan diet with a kid unless I really knew what I was doing and had consulted a pediatrician. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 01:50, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Why in the world would your friends keep their baby from milk as a newborn? There have been babies, such as this one, who have died because their non-breastfeeding vegan parents tried to keep them from drinking milk. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 23:21, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the contributions so far. Let me reiterate that I am not looking for direct advice, but for resources. Perhaps I should have clarified that the baby in question has been exclusively breastfed till six months, as per WHO guidelines, when simple safe foods were introduced. At one year of age came the test for cow's milk; as per the allergist's advice, the parents rubbed a drop on the baby's skin, which resulted in a bad reaction. These people are good cooks and are well acquainted with the pulses and legume dishes mentioned, but they have been professionally advised to be cautious in using these with the kids. As I said to them the other day, I have no doubt that the baby will be fine, because they will go to any lengths (including bending their vegetarian principles) to ensure the safety of their kids. My concern is how fine the parents are going to be: stressed, I would imagine. Hence my request for ideas, suggestions, resources. BrainyBabe (talk) 00:07, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Mattress Replacement

What are the regulations for Massachusetts regarding mattress replacement? I bought my Englander brand mattress in January or February of 2000 and have since lost the receipt. The credit card companies only have records going as far back as 2001. The store I bought it from have computerized records going back to 2001, and claim that paper records are in the basement but would be very difficult to find and therefore won't look. What recourse do I have? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.17.147.177 (talk) 21:58, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

So do you imagine you have some kind of rights for replacement of an 8 year old mattress? Was there some kind of warranty on it? Failing that, I'd say you were out of luck! I very much doubt the state laws guarantee you more than a really minimal warranty period. SteveBaker (talk) 23:18, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Greek surnames

Salisbury9620 (talk) 23:09, 11 December 2007 (UTC)In ancient Greek history, all of the names mentioned (Socrates, Aristotle, Hippocrates etc) appear to lack surnames. Is there any indication that these were first or last names? Or were the complete names lost to history?

Salisbury9620 (talk) 23:09, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Family name#History explains this quite nicely. SteveBaker (talk) 23:16, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

They were "first" names, although really they are just "names" because they don't have last names. As a kind of surname tThey could have used their father's name in the genitive ("[son] of so-and-so")...I don't know who the fathers of these three were but their sons would have used Socratides, Aristotelides, and Hippocratides. In the case of Athens, so for Socrates and Aristotle, they could have used the name of whatever clan they were assigned to. Perhaps Hippocrates' island of Kos had a similar system. The Romans used epithets sometimes, and Greek gods and heroes had epithets as well (there is a whole list of epithets in Homer), so perhaps regular people used them too, but I don't know. Adam Bishop (talk) 01:51, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Legal Advice Rules?

What's up with the "no legal advice" rules? Is it a law or something because I notice it exists on other boards besides just wikipedia? Either way, I'm curious as to the reasoning behind it. It's not like a person would go to court and say "well, somebody told me on wikipedia that you can't do that, Judge." ...and if they do that then the person is an idiot anyway. It seems like this legal advice constraint thing is a lose-lose situation. Is it a crime for two people to talk law and legalities jsut because it's on the internet? Sincerely confused, thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.28.144.36 (talk) 23:17, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia is used throughout the world. In many parts of the world it is illegal to practice Law or Medicine without a license. Since Wikipedia doesn't want to be sued, and we have no way to tell who has legal qualifications and who doesn't, we have a policy of not offering individual Legal or Medical advice on the reference desks. In main article space, we clearly aren't talking about advice for the benefit of a particular individual - but the reference desk is something special. What other online systems do is there business - perhaps they have other disclaimers (Have you read them? I doubt it!), others may feel it's not a huge risk - and yet others may simply be naive. Anyway - those are the rules we operate under. SteveBaker (talk) 23:22, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

As you say, it would be rather idiotic to claim that wikipedians told me it was legal in court, but that wouldn't stop people from doing so. By having the policy in place, it acts as a legal disclaimer. If someone claims it, they can be told that wikipedia doesn't give legal advice. The legal processes in many countries mean that you have to assume everyone is very, very, stupid and warn them about things, even if it's common sense. Just when somehting's foolproof, they make a better fool. Steewi (talk) 01:01, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Part of the problem is that whatever we say here is ipso facto in written form. It's on the record, permanently. If a doctor gave someone oral advice that turned out to be bad advice, the doctor could always say he/she never said that, or that the patient had only heard a part of it, or had misunderstood it, or whatever. It's the patient's word against the doctor's as to what was actually said. Here, we have no such defence. And we don't have the benefit of seeing the person face to face and seeing the bigger picture - that's apart from the fact that we have no authority to dispense medical advice in any case, not being medical practitioners. -- JackofOz (talk) 01:19, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

It is well-worth mentioning that such rules have various applications. For example we do get a few naysayers on the reference desk that consider all medical and legal questions barred because it would constitute legal or medical advice. That's not true. Not all questions are bad. People can ask about laws, medicines, diseases, etc. I think the deciding factor is if a person is asking for medical or legal decisions or counselling, i.e. recommendations on how to act. That is completely different. Consider the questions "I live in Minnesota and carry weed. What is the maximum amount of weed I can carry to avoid the more stringent sentences?" versus the question "Can you help me find laws about prosecution for possession of weed. I'm interested to know at what point the charges go from minor to major. Thanks". In the first question we would be offering legal advice on how much weed to carry. In the second question we would be talking about laws, without any specific application, which would not be advice.Rfwoolf (talk) 09:10, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Plus, if a person gave out legal advice of the kind that Rfwoolf is talking about, then he or she would be guilty of practicing law without a license, which is not only very illegal, but will probably result in the guilty party having to serve hard cold jail time. If you think this is not a big deal, here's an excerpt from an article that appeared in the newspaper: US States News:

STAMFORD MAN CHARGED WITH PRACTICING LAW WITHOUT LICENSE

May 23, 2006 Tuesday

DATELINE: HARTFORD, Conn.

The Connecticut Division of Criminal Justice's Office of Chief State's Attorney issued the following news release:

Chief State's Attorney Christopher L. Morano announced today the arrest of a Stamford man on charges of practicing law without a license.

(Name Withheld), age 39, of... Stamford, was charged with three counts of Unlicensed Practice of Law, a misdemeanor carrying a maximum prison term of two months and/or a maximum fine of $250.

Saukkomies 16:09, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

December 12

Driving in slippery conditions

Suppose if one is driving on a slippery, winter road and is aiming to be as safe as possible. Is it in one's best interest to shift as early as possible and therefore reduce output torque, which in turn will reduce wheel slip? Thanks. Acceptable (talk) 00:08, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes - although in a modern car, preventing too much torque from being supplied to the wheels is what traction control aims to do. SteveBaker (talk) 01:40, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Whoa, Nellie! I think we need to prohibit driving advice. Someone could get hurt and sue us! —Nricardo (talk) 03:05, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes Steve, as per the previous question, you should probably be a little more diplomatic in the wording of your answer :) Strictly speaking that is. Rfwoolf (talk) 09:13, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

I've always started from the line in second, when the car could manage it, for just that reason. I can't source it on anything except twelve years of driving stick, but I would say: On ice, always stay at least one gear higher than you ought to be, and when you run out of gears, you're probably going fast enough. I also would recommend that you take your car out to an ice-covered empty parking lot, if one is available, and spin around half out of control for a while where you know you won't hit anything. It will help you get used to the feeling, teach you how to react to gain control, and help you not to panic when panic is clearly in order. (Not advised in SUV's, though, or at least not unless you're really careful not to flip it over.) Good luck. Faithfully, Deltopia (talk) 03:06, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, anything that helps you give the car gentle inputs should help. Also, if you're willing to spend money, a decent set of winter tires can make a HUGE difference. Friday (talk) 16:00, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Having many years of experience driving on winter roads, I have learned that what works a lot of time FOR ME (I'm not saying it will work for anyone else, so don't sue me) is when I am going downhill on a road that is slippery, I put the car's transmission into neutral - especially if it has an automatic transmission. This allows me to have a lot more control over the braking, and it also prevents the car's transmission from having any effect on the rotation of the tires. I find also that if I get into a skid on level roads that are covered in ice, that if I slip the car out of gear while braking that I have a lot better result in being able to come to a controlled stop sooner than if the car had remained in gear the whole time. Saukkomies 16:15, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

NTSC -> ATSC

I've been looking into TV accessories recently and thinking about the upcoming switch from NTSC to ATSC (here mainly in North America). Now, my question is essentially what will happen to those devices with only NTSC tuners. Now, I know all about the $40 subsidy program for ATSC tuners, but I'm having trouble understanding what this purpose-specific ATSC tuner will do.

So, for sake of comparison, take the current system. I have a TV and I connect my coax cable from the wall (coming from the cable company) to the TV, turn on the TV and all my channels are there (I switch channels using the TV's channel changer). Now, what happens when I have the ATSC tuner? Will it be like a digital box (coax from wall goes to ATSC tuner, cable runs to old TV, TV is set on channel 3 or on TV/Video, I use the ATSC tuner's remote to change channels) or will it do some type of conversion from ATSC to NTSC (and that's all)? --Colonel Cow (talk) 00:51, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

(You mentioned cable TV in your example above, but just so no one is confused: The US DTV switchover on Feb 17, 2009 will only affect free over-the-air TV. Analog-only TVs will need ATSC tuner boxes -- so called "converter boxes" -- to get free over-the-air TV via an antenna after the switchover.)

To answer your question, the ATSC converter boxes are really separate tuners: antenna plugs in to the box, box outputs audio and video via coax or composite cables to TV, TV remains on channel 3 or video input, and you use the ATSC tuner's remote to change channels.

It's not feasible to convert all the channels at once so your NTSC TV can receive them using its tuner. The equipment required would be similar to installing a mini cable company in your own home. You would need a separate dedicated ATSC tuner set to each input channel, a separate RF modulator set to each output channel, and equipment to properly mix the output signals into one cable you feed to your TV. --Bavi H (talk) 06:37, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Well then, what exactly will be happening to cable (if anything) when this switchover occurs? I mean, from what I know, cable is an analog service (when it goes straight from the wall to TV -- cable box is digital) so I would think this switchover would impact it as well. Will I continue to be able to watch (cable) TV post-switchover on my NTSC TV directly from the wall with no new hardware? --Colonel Cow (talk) 14:06, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Essentially, yes. At least, my cable company says that I will be able to. Cable companies tend to be private organizations, so your mileage may vary -- right now, mine offers a dozen or two channels of HD (through digital cable), and the rest of the channels are all ATSC. They will continue to do that through the switchover, so my old relic of an NTSC set will continue to work... Faithfully, Deltopia (talk) 15:13, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Oh, alright. Thanks for your help Bavi and Deltopia. --Colonel Cow (talk) 18:24, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

According to Must-carry#Digital must-carry, if your cable company uses analog transmission (that is, so you can plug your coax cable directly to your TV and change channels on the TV), then it must continue to send local "must-carry" channels in analog for three years after the DTV switch over date. But that page also mentions that small cable operators can apply for a waiver. And that page also explains the difference between a must-carry channel and a channel that chooses retransmission consent.

I don't have cable, so I haven't learned more details about how the DTV switch affects cable. The official answers on sites like dtv.gov are along the lines of "ask your cable company." The must-carry information above seems to suggest that cable companies will provide analog channels for three years after the DTV switchover, but with some possible exceptions that I'm not quite clear about. --Bavi H (talk) 03:06, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Aperture of Human eye

Can the opening of a human eye be compared to the aperture opening of a photographic lens? If so, what is the f-number of the human eyes in terms of lenses? Thanks. Acceptable (talk) 02:14, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

See F-number#Human eye. --Milkbreath (talk) 02:24, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Oh, I must have missed that. Thanks. Acceptable (talk) 03:22, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

????!!!!

Can this be explained ?

• theregister.co.uk/2007/12/04/wikipedia_secret_mailing/
• theregister.co.uk/2007/12/04/wikipedia_secret_mailing/page2.html

Wikipedia involved in Cabal/ArbCom Exposé.

I really love this site to see it fall apart like this. Can this be placed in any articles ? Really do appreciate your assisstance with this one. Someone is raising a hell of a stink. 65.163.115.114 (talk) 02:19, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

IF I did'nt ask this, someone else would have, and may have done so in a most offensive manner.

One other thing, how does one praise WIKIPEDIA, because it has been of valued assisstance to me ? 65.163.115.114 (talk) 02:22, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

My investigation reveals that a "!!" is the locus of what I've found. I've found this on my way here concerning another, unrelated matter. MY computer is rigged to go to Google first AFTER I input, for example, Wikipedia in the Icon Box, thus I've seen the mess outlined here. I really do appreciate your assisstance. 65.163.115.114 (talk) 02:28, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

PLEASE read our responses to your previous two questions. NO!!! Nothing you read in any of these places will "placed in articles" - not now, not ever - this is an encyclopedia not a newspaper.

But since this clearly excites you - this "news" has been known for several days now and aside from a few high-up Wikipedian political types, none of the rest of us really give a damn about fights between admins and news of "secret" mailing lists. Communications between editors frequently happens by email when we don't want our words spread everywhere and recorded here for all time. Hardly a day goes by when I don't get an email from someone or other here. Usually it's just chit-chat that doesn't particularly concern the community at large - but sometimes when there is a vandal or a sockpuppeteer on the loose - and you really need to discuss what to do about that person in a place where you aren't going to inflame the situation by discussing them in the public eye. This is really no news - and it's CERTAINLY not going to cause it to fall apart.

If you want to thank Wikipedia - go to the very top of any page and make a donation to help pay for it.

SteveBaker (talk) 02:36, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Thats not entirely true. At the time of writing, that article has been added to Criticism of Wikipedia#Administrator actions. Its the subject of much reverting and re-reverting though, so I wouldn't get involved if I were you. Rockpocket 19:21, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

The story is also featured in its appropriate location. Wikipedia:Press coverage#December --Tagishsimon (talk) 19:26, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Note that the line between "private" and "secret" is, of course, largely in the eye of the beholder (or, more specifically, the expectations for transparency—a government organization is held to different standards than a private company, for example). Jimbo replied that the list was "private", not "secret". Really depends how you want to see it. I think it is unreasonable to expect administrators to be 100% transparent (what's wrong with a little private chat amongst equals to figure out a good course of action?), though their reasoning should be legible, if that makes sense. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 00:52, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Outsourcing converting VHS to DVD

I have many home videos that I would like to convert from VHS to DVD. I know how to do this on my own but would rather just pay someone else to do it because it would take so much time. I have found a company that will scan all your old pictures/slides but can't find anyone that would convert VHS to DVD. What are my options? 72.8.91.163 (talk) 03:17, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

The most simple google search appears to list many firms in the VHS to DVD business. --Tagishsimon (talk) 04:44, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

The most simple Google search did not work for me. It just pulled up a lot of how to articles. I know how to do it. I just can't find a company willing to do it for me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.187.0.164 (talk) 18:49, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Here in the States, Walgreens offers this service, as does the Ritz/Wolf Camera store chain. I'm sure there are more. This is, of course, only for "home videos", they won't convert your VHS copy of Star Wars. --LarryMac | Talk 21:42, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Neumann

Was Neumann very rude and ill mannered?I am very much interested in knowing about his personality.Aren't great intellectuals like him supposed to be humble and well mannered?Did he fail in any of his scientific attempts?Was he so perfect? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.248.2.51 (talk) 06:02, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

I assume you're inquiring about Johann von Neumann (and not this person). I remember reading somewhere that he made the women secretaries at Los Alamos very uncomfortable by trying to look at their legs. Clarityfiend (talk) 11:03, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

So not this person either then.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 11:34, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Why would you think that great intellectuals are humble and well-mannered? Have you actually met any? I've met quite a few rude and condescending ones! Was John von Neumann (Johnny to his friends) so perfect? No—he was human! He had a great mathematical mind, but that is only part of what makes someone a person. (As an aside, Ulam said he was a lousy physicist because he had no ability to visualize things whatsoever; he thought only in terms of mathematics and numbers. There are a lot of candid opinions on Von Neumann—of whom Ulam counted a great friend and ally—in Ulam's autobiography.) There is no doubt that Von Neumann was a great genius—he awed even other geniuses, who joked that none of his computers could ever compete with his own brain—but as a person he seems to have been prickly, condescending, cruel, a pure hawk, etc. He was, however, not at all unique among his companions or contemporaries for those qualities (Oppenheimer, Teller, Ulam—the whole lot of them except maybe Fermi and Bethe—were prickly, arrogant, troubled, you name it). --24.147.86.187 (talk) 16:34, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Of course, a more measured response might question how we are encouraged these "scientific heros" into "scientific saints". This usually happens by stripping out anything about them that might be objectionable. Einstein was a politically-active socialist, pacifist, and supported Negro rights? Make him a cuddly old man who can't tie his shoes! (Note that neither of these things are at all shameful today, but when Einstein passed away they were extremely controversial). Oppenheimer ratted out his students and friends in an attempt to appease the government? Make him a saintly martyr of modern science, dreaming about peace and morality! Feynman's a hopeless sexist who can't come to terms with his own emotional fragility? Ho ho, look at him cracking all those safes, what a card! (That one's for you, Steve!) Anyway, my point is only that these people are all human beings, and the need to balance their exceptional gifts with the idea that they were also exceptionally perfect people is perfectly natural (viz. hagiography). At the same time, when we find out that, for shame!, they are actually human beings—with flaws, frailties, etc.—it doesn't discount their abilities, nor does it make them figures of fun, nor does it mean we can't admire them for some things more than others; we shouldn't rush to denounce them (viz. iconoclasm). Despite rumors to the contrary, no scientist yet has ever been a brain-in-a-jar, a genius devoid of context, devoid of their own bodies. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 16:58, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Hitting the Wall

what is meant by the term "hitting the wall". it is a business term and indicates a particular stage reached in a business entity. what exatly is it? Any examples would be helpful. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.83.169.98 (talk) 06:42, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

It's an allusion to hitting the wall in long-distance running. Whether it's an appropriate analogy, or whether like so much business theory it's a load of marsh gas, is another question. Googling "hitting the wall" in business may turn up some useful essays. FiggyBee (talk) 07:08, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Think of those videos of crash test dummies in cars that are smashed into brick walls. I think that if you carry that image into other aspects of life you can get the idea of what "hitting the wall" is supposed to mean. Saukkomies 16:18, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Internet reference I don't understand

Atypically urbandictonary isn't being very useful, what is meant by

.
.
.
.
5. ???
6. PROFIT!!!!

Baffling. AlmostCrimes (talk) 06:58, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

It's a meme from Futurama. -Wooty [Woot?] [Spam! Spam! Wonderful spam!] 06:59, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

From which episode? I don't remember seeing it and I can say that I HAVE watched every single episode... --antilived^{T | C | G} 07:07, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

This is from the Gnomes episode of South Park. The underpants gnomes have a three-phase business plan:

1. Collect Underpants
2. ?
3. PROFIT!

And people repeating it are usually making a joke about poorly thought-out plans or ideas. --Bob Mellish (talk) 07:15, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure it's much older than either Futurama or South Park - but our article on Slashdot (which is severely infected by this meme) claims that it was from South Park. Wasn't it in one of those god-awful inspirational speaker/business method books? The idea is that it's easy enough to have the initial idea for a business - and you know your goal is PROFIT! - but the steps in getting from the first to the last are the problem for aspiring businessmen - and was supposedly the topic of the book...the only problem being, I don't recall the name of the book! SteveBaker (talk) 01:35, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Oh yes, it is from South Park, my mistake. -Wooty [Woot?] [Spam! Spam! Wonderful spam!] 04:12, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Soap bubbles

A small enough soap bubble is more or less a perfect sphere, right? And this means that if I photograph it, no matter the angle, it will appear in the photograph as more or less a perfect circle? How useful is a digital photograph of a soap bubble of a sample of a circle? JIP | Talk 07:33, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, yes, and depends on how visually distinct the edges of the bubble are. If it not readily apparent where the edges of the bubble are, it prevents the photo from being useful to clearly illustrate the point. A mathematically generated circle would be more exact, but for quick and dirty "this is a circle", I see no fault in your soap bubble picture idea. EvilCouch (talk) 11:33, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Suggest that gravity will distort the bubble86.219.166.169 (talk) 15:48, 12 December 2007 (UTC)petitmichel

Per the anon, gravity will tend to slightly distort the bubble (as will any air currents or other external forces). As well, liquid may tend to settle toward the bottom of the bubble, again depending on its size and composition; this will introduce additional distortion. Smaller bubbles will suffer less from all of these effects than larger bubbles, so the answer to your question depends on how much 'more or less' you can tolerate in your 'perfect'. You can get around this by making sure you photograph the bubble from directly above or below; the horizontal cross-section of the bubble ought to be perfectly circular.

Another strategy is to photograph a half-bubble stuck to a flat surface; the contact ring of the bubble wall with the surface will be a perfect circle. (This requires that the camera be placed directly over the center of the bubble, on a line drawn perpendicular to the surface—otherwise you'll get an ellipse: a projection of a tilted circle.) TenOfAllTrades(talk) 15:57, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

An individual bubble is close to a circle. A group of bubbles will approximate hexagonal closest packing. Rmhermen (talk) 18:36, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

In an ideal world, the surface tension of the liquid is combatting the pressure of the air inside the bubble - the 'least energy' surface has the smallest possible surface area (to minimise the surface tension) and the largest possible volume (to keep the air pressure as low as possible). Since the 3D object with the smallest ratio of surface area to volume is a sphere, that's the shape a soap bubble would ideally take in perfectly still air with zero gravity. Since the bubble is falling - it ought not to feel the effects of gravity - but sadly, it's so light that air resistance is not negligable and gravity and slipstream will indeed distort it. Small bubbles have thicker side-walls proportionate to their volume - so they fall more freely and are therefore more spherical than larger ones. Turbulance is also less of a problem for smaller bubbles. SteveBaker (talk) 01:31, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Breaking eggs

I have trouble breaking open eggs. Any suggestions? —Preceding unsigned comment added by KeeganB (talk • contribs) 12:01, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Tap them in the center of their long axis with something hard prior to trying to open them with your hands. Kitchen counters work fairly well, but really anything should be fine as long as it's hard enough to crack the shell slightly, thus defeating the strength of the circular shape. EvilCouch (talk) 12:05, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

When I'm beating eggs in a jug to make my nice spinach-and-egg stuff on Sunday nights, I tap the egg firmly (and not too quickly), in the way EvilCouch mentions, on the rim of the jug. Twice should do it: then you can pull the two pieces of the shell apart quite easily with your hands. If you're frying the eggs, for example, the edge of the frying pan would be good enough. I invariably find that if I don't tap firmly enough and then try to open the egg with my fingers, it gets very messy! Watch out for stray flakes of shell coming off and landing in the jug/pan, though. Hassocks5489 (talk) 13:14, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Why do you want to break eggs that are open ?86.219.166.169 (talk) 15:47, 12 December 2007 (UTC)dt I find a smart tap with the blade of a sharp knife is effective..hotclaws 17:48, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Skilled egg breakers (my dad was one) could open an egg with one hand by holding it in the palm of the hand over the bowl, palm down, and pressing inward with the fingers while pulling the egg open, ending with the the egg in the bowl or skillet, and the cracked open egg in the hand. Some could do two eggs at a time in one hand. I expect it took practice. Edison (talk) 18:56, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

pronunciation

how is meme pronounced? (as in 'internet meme')

is it 'meeem' or 'mee mee'? the latter makes more sense to me because it sounds a bit like someone might be saying 'me, me... look at me - look what I found on the internet..."

thanks 83.104.131.135 (talk) 13:08, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

The IPA code at the start of the Meme article indicates "meem" with one syllable. Hassocks5489 (talk) 13:13, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

It is intentionally meant to rhyme with "gene". It's a biological metaphor, created long before there was an internet. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 15:38, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Nope. Meme was only invented in 1976 -- after the Internet started. Rmhermen (talk) 18:32, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I meant, "before there was an internet of any note." Anyway it hardly matters; the word meme has nothing originally to do with the internet. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 04:03, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

It really depends on what you consider to be the start of "the Internet". See History of the Internet. In any case it's clear that "meme" was indeed derived from "gene" and meant to be pronounced similarly. --Anon, 22:43 UTC, December 12.

The cost of the USPS eagle logo redesign effort

When did the USPS redesign the eagle logo? How much did it cost? Was there a controversy regarding the similarity with the Seatle Seahawks NFL logo? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.131.238.250 (talk) 17:46, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

It appears that the United States Postal Service logo was redesigned in 1993, and I really can't see much similarity with the Seattle Seahawks logo apart from their both being birds, nor do I find any evidence on Google of a controversy. — Lomn 19:11, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Similarly the current USPS logo, though it is just a head, is clearly just taken from their original "full bird" logo which they had in the 1970s. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 19:49, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Advanced Sat-Nav

I had an idea for how to improve in car sat-nav. Essentially my idea was that the sat-nav would turn on the indicator at the junction/roundabout exit you required to take. Now I understand there may be technological issues with this (mis-indication could be dangerous), and accuracy issues etc. but considering other technologies being developed I can't see how this wouldn't be plausible. The question? Well does anybody know of anything like this being piloted/developed etc.? I expect it must have been considered, seeing as it would be A) an audio/visual indicator to the driver and B) would (if accurate) help other road users. ny156uk (talk) 18:08, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Since this would have a computer indicating the driver's behavior with no idea as to whether or not that actually will be the driver's behavior, I'd have to call it a bad idea. There are plenty of ways to signal the driver without falsely signaling other traffic. As for development, though, I'm sure it's part of work on fully-automated highways. — Lomn 19:18, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

You make the rash assumption that the driver intends to do what the nav system says he should do. I quite often ignore the turning my TomTom says I should take and let it route me around to my destination via another path. The things on my wish list for Nav systems are:

1. Better precision so it can adjust it's upcoming turn notification according to the number of lanes you'll have to cross.
2. A means to have it add missing roads to it's database as you drive down them. There is one road missing from my machine's database and it ALWAYS wants to take me around the long way rather than using it...however, it could quite easily notice that I drove "cross-country" and offer me the option to create that as a new road (either one-way or two-way) when I finally rejoin a road it knows about.
3. If there is a diversion around a blocked road, there is no way to tell it "I CAN'T GO THAT WAY YOU STOOPID MACHINE" - so after I don't take the turn, it'll keep trying to direct me back onto that road until I'm far enough away that another route becomes faster. This can be exceedingly annoying.

SteveBaker (talk) 01:19, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

A videogame series called The Getaway had navigation like this. Instead of a map or a radar as most driving games do, the indicators flash to show you which way to go to get to your destination. Though it was clever, it was poorly implemented - you were never quite sure which way to go. In real life, I could imagine satnav like this would be very bad unless there was also voice directions as well - which would probably make the indicator feature useless anyway. Not all cars tell you which indicator is on, they usually just have a generic light on the dashboard flash and the clicking sound. The point of indicators is to tell other drivers and pedistrians which way you intend to go - if indicators turned themselves on automatically then they are not doing what they're supposed to do. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.208.109.169 (talk) 02:00, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

A new(?) kind of site

Hi. Is anyone familiar with any web-based project with goals reminiscent of those of Wikimedia's projects, but with a crucial difference - instead of giving equal editing power to anyone, differentiating the authority and influence based on peer evaluation of each individual's capability to contribute to the project?

Thanks. -- Meni Rosenfeld (talk) 21:31, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

I think Citizendium does something like that, although I only skimmed the article. --LarryMac | Talk 21:34, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

I figured someone would mention it, and I too once thought it might satisfy the above criterion. However, it only has 2 levels of editorial authority, "author" and "editor", and these are based on credentials rather than peer evaluation. Thanks anyway. -- Meni Rosenfeld (talk) 21:39, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps it will help if I explain my motivation a bit. I am fascinated by the power the ideas behind Wikipedia have, and impressed by what it has achieved in practice. However, I am concerned that some of its key philosophies are flawed, which will prevent it from ever achieving true greatness. I have given some thought to an alternative model for projects of this kind, and I think I have a few ideas which might work. Now my options are either to start a project on my own the way I envision it (as soon as I have an idea how to do that, which will probably be some 50 years in the future), or to seek an existing project which is close enough to work. This question is an effort toward this last approach.

To clarify what I have in mind, one of the core ideas will be "proposed edits", which means that anyone can propose an edit, with an interface similar to what MediaWiki currently offers for editing, but this will not be incorporated into the page unless it has been approved. Approval takes place by others voting on how good they think the edit is, and the calculation of a weighted average of votes. The edit must pass some threshold in order to be accepted. The weight of each voter will be based on the direct and indirect peer evaluation of his skills.

This sounds more complicated than it really is. A person who know what he is doing should have a weight high enough to pass edits on his own. People who are more prone to error will need a few reinforcing votes. This will make sure that while anyone can pinpoint mistakes and offer new text, only trusted individuals can make actually visible changes to the page.

This isn't the place to explain any other details of my ideas or to convince anyone of their virtue. I only hope I have said enough to describe what it is that I am looking for, and that someone is aware of any existing project which captures at least the spirit of those ideas. -- Meni Rosenfeld (talk) 21:57, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Oh, and it is very important that the system behind it won't be idiotic. A good negative example is Yahoo Answers, with its sorry excuse for a peer evaluation system which looks like something they made up at school one day. It should have genuine mathematical reasoning behind it, even if it is based on simplified assumptions. -- Meni Rosenfeld (talk) 22:14, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

The only thing that comes near to that that I'm aware of is the slashdot moderation system, though that merely evaluates forum postings. --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:09, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Looks like the right track, but I am looking for something more ambitious. -- Meni Rosenfeld (talk) 22:18, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Isn't the German Wikipedia testing something like that? Where changes do not go live immediately? I had a link on that . . . --— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 22:13, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

I, too, have heard some stuff about the German Wikipedia, but I'm not sure what it is exactly. If anyone knows a source which describes exactly what goes on there, it could be insightful. Of course, I don't speak German so it will be of little utility to me for the time being. -- Meni Rosenfeld (talk) 22:18, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

I think it's important to remember Wikipedia's history. We started out as Nupedia which imposed all sorts of rules about how articles had to be peer reviewed and so on. Wikipedia:Nupedia_and_Wikipedia details the history. Here is the short version: Over three and a half years of activity, Nupedia only ever reached 25 publishable articles with about another 75 in progress...pathetic! Wikipedia was the reaction to the failure of Nupedia - and after a further 3 and a half years, we now have at least 1,700 articles that we would consider "finished" (our featured articles), 3,200 more that we'd say were "Good" and 2.1 million more in various states of editing. If you neglect the 2.1 million articles that may or may not be any good and just look at the ones that have been reviewed, we have still demonstrably produced 160 times more featured/good articles than Nupedia over more or less the same period of time. In reality, the number of articles of this quality is much higher than that - many wonderful articles have never been offered up for good/featured article status because of considerable amount of red-tape involved. (Hint: LESS red tape...not more!) The power of NOT doing what you advocate should be abundantly clear from this! SteveBaker (talk) 01:06, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

What about minor edits, such as changing a spelling mistake or grammatical error? That would be a pain the ass to have it peer reviewed especially if you were a noob editor! Just my two cents. The ideal of the system is nice though. --71.186.16.100 (talk) 01:40, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

It's 7 feet tall, and 102 inches around the waist ?

Help please. Does anyone out there have a clue as to what this church Christmas Quiz question is all about? The church is Scotland based and it may be a 'local' question such as a statue or the like, but I can't think of one with a greater waist than its height, and I am puzzled why the question uses 2 different measuring units ie. feet and inches. A clue perhaps?? Thanks in anticipation. 81.145.242.130 (talk) 21:43, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Assuming it is circular in section, then it has a 32.5" diameter (2' 7.5"), if that helps. --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:13, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Isn't that 2' 8.5"? -- Meni Rosenfeld (talk) 22:28, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Is it a printed question and is that exactly what it is letter-for-letter and numeral-for numeral? --Milkbreath (talk) 22:43, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

The use of different units is very likely meaningless, just referring to the way people are measured: heights in feet and inches, waist sizes in inches. The first thing that came to my mind was the Big Ben (the bell, not the clock). 7 feet is indeed about 2.2 m, but 102 inches is about 2.6 m -- thus nearer the diameter than the circumference (and of course, being a bell, it's measured at its widest point and doesn't have a "waist"). Still, my guess is that this is the intended answer and the question is badly worded. In other sources I see the diameter given as 2.7 m and as 9 feet 0 inches (108 inches or 2.74 m). --Anonymous, 22:52 UTC, December 12, 2007.

Considering that it's a Christmas question, I'd venture that the answer is a Christmas tree, though the numbers do seem a tad precise for such an answer *shrugs*. Also, bear in mind that a *lot* of objects have a waist greater than their height. I used to use this trick to score free drinks at University by betting against people on just how much greater the circumference of a beer glass was than its height. this video demonstrates the principle fairly well. GeeJo ^(t)⁄_(c) • 23:14, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Sometimes these things are semantic: what is the exact question? --— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 02:29, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Winter tires in summer

Will winter tires offer less grip than all-season or summer tires in the summertime? Acceptable (talk) 23:26, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Don't use winter tyres in the summer - or vice-versa. Winter tyres have a very soft compound and they get softer still in warm weather. This means that they wear out amazingly quickly in warm weather. I'm not sure that would be bad for grip - but definitely bad for your pocketbook. Summer tyres have the reverse problem - a hard compound that becomes rock-hard in winter - that will be terrible for grip in snow and ice...dangerously slow I would say. So either go with compromise all-season or switch out your tyres twice a year. SteveBaker (talk) 00:43, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

The more rubber you can put on the road, the more grip you get, so tyres with more cutouts will give you less grip on a dry, clean road. This is why they use Slick tires in drag racing - no cutouts = maximum grip. FiggyBee (talk) 01:33, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

French volley gun mounted on a gun carriage

I saw a volley gun at the Les Invalides in Paris 2 years ago. Basically several thin barrels mounted horizontally in a single row on a gun carriage. If anyone has been there it's one of the 2 artillery pieces on the second floor balcony behind the large statue of Napoleon that overlooks the courtyard. It was not a mitrailleuse. Any idea what it might be called? --BrokenSphere^{Msg me} 23:34, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Here is a picture of a "Billinghurst Requa battery gun", a.k.a. "Billinghurst-Requa volley gun", or a "Requa battery gun". Is that it? --Milkbreath (talk) 00:36, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

December 13

Bigfoot and Porn

I have been told about some porno sites (I'll list one of them,but I don't know how Wikipedia reacts to having sites like THAT here. I'm referring to the fact that Bigfoot is featured on something like that, no more, no less.) refer to the creature having sex with people. Can this be placed in the "Cultural section" regarding Bigfoot ?

One site some guy told ME is literotica(dot)com, under the catagory of Non-Human and Sci-Fi. 65.163.115.114 (talk) 00:47, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

I can't make head or tail of your question. But if you're asking whether the "fact" that "Bigfoot" is "featured" (shown?) on this or that porn website can be placed in such-and-such an article here, you might ask in the talk page of that article. -- Hoary (talk) 00:57, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Rule 34. In fact, I'd like to propose an extended version - if you can imagine it, (a) there is porn of it, and (b) it's been referenced on at least one of The Simpsons, Family Guy and South Park. And given how many people want to get rid of all the trivial "in pop culture" references to (b), I'd suggest not including (a) unless you have some kind of source talking about the existence of Bigfoot porn (e.g. a magazine article on wacky porn sites, or something). Oh, and as for "how Wikipedia reacts to having sites like THAT", Wikipedia is not censored. Confusing Manifestation(Say hi!) 04:08, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

It might be better placed on the article of the most relevent paraphilia. --Masamage ♫ 04:27, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Kryptobestiality? Steewi (talk) 06:26, 13 December 2007 (UTC) Better - kryptozoophilia Steewi (talk) 06:27, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

It might still better be omitted as blatant silliness. -- Hoary (talk) 06:28, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Help me ID a song

I'm going to do my best to describe the song. It starts and ends with a high pitched, fast-tempoed arpeggio. I think the lyrics are something about believing in yourself. I think it was a song from the 80's and it could be considered "arena rock." Any suggestions?