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The technical section of the village pump is used to discuss technical issues about Wikipedia. Bugs and feature requests should be made at Bugzilla (see how to report a bug). Bugs with security implications should be reported to security@wikimedia.org or filed under the "Security" product in Bugzilla.

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Wikimedia error, site very slow, looks like when Internet first developed

I just got a Wikimedia error when I tried to go to any page on the site. I forgot to make a note of the number. Then I got a Gateway Time-Out error. Eventually, I got to the page I wanted. I was getting from one page to another just fine for the most part, then the site was very slow. On both the Technical Village Pump and on the page where I am now, fonts and blue links look like they did when the Internet was new, before anyone tried making pages appear more interesting.— Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 18:35, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Pages look normal now. All other sites have come up normally.— Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 18:39, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I suspect it was a temporary server problem that prevented style sheets from loading properly.--ukexpat (talk) 18:44, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
So no major problem to report that caused the Wikimedia errors?— Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 18:50, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Every Wikipedia page is built from many more than one computer file: besides the file which shows the layout and text of the actual page, the other files mainly comprise images, style sheets and scripts. When certain servers are slow, the files that are requested from them may fail to be sent back before your browser gives up. If one of those files is a CSS file (a style sheet that describes the normal page styling for Wikipedia), your browser cannot format the page using that styling and so falls back on its defaults. These look like 20th century internet because style sheets were not generally used until HTML 4 was released in late 1997. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:33, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Redrose gives the correct analysis of the reported difficulty; however, I never saw this no-CSS-loaded problem, though I did see other problems like the ones below, where my just-saved-edit gives a faux error. Are you seeing CSS-rendering problems, Ottawahitech, like Vchimpanzee, every time? And Vchimpanzee, were you getting the error-messages below, and were you always saving an edit? 74.192.84.101 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 17:35, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I have been getting sporadic "Wikimedia Foundation Error"s for a few days. I thought it meant my edit had to be repeated -- but so far that is not the case. Here is a message I got a few minutes ago:

Wikimedia Foundation Error
Our servers are currently experiencing a technical problem. This is probably temporary and should be fixed soon. Please try again in a few minutes... XOttawahitech (talk) 15:49, 13 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I've been getting those too, at odd intervals, on pages of various sizes. The first thing to do is to check your contributions - try to do this in another browser tab or window, if your browser provides such features; this saves disturbing the tab where the error occurred. If the edit that you attempted appears at the top of your contribs, all well and good; if it doesn't, return to the tab with the error, back out and try to save again. A second attempt is usually sufficient; if that doesn't work, or if it happens on more than one smallish page, it's a sign that the servers are busy. Go have some coffeee and try later. --Redrose64 (talk) 17:24, 13 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
@Redrose64:I have been getting those with increasing intensity, or at least so it seems. Coupled with the general slowness (?) of the site, it is definitely reducing my ability to contribute. Just wondering if this is effecting others' contributions as well. Are there pertinent statistics anywhere? Thanks in advance, XOttawahitech (talk) 15:37, 15 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
@Redrose64: I just got the same Wikimedia error, but this time as soon as I clicked the Edit. It looks like the service is deteriorating -- is anyone doing anything ahout it? Just curious. XOttawahitech (talk) 15:16, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I have no cure, nor do I know if anybody is working on it. All I can do is observe and point people to existing discussions. If it helps, I got it when clicking [edit] for this section; also when going to Talk:East Coast Joint Stock - before I made this edit. When my Norah Jones CD finishes, I'm off down the shops. --Redrose64 (talk) 15:22, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Can definitely confirm that the first couple weeks of November were giving me more generic errors than usual. "Our servers are currently experiencing a technical problem. This is probably temporary and should be fixed soon." Every time, from what I can tell, it was after I clicked save, and after my edit *had* been saved... so the error was happening when the freshly-modified-page was trying to load itself, with the little your-edit-was-saved message at the top. I have also seen a notable uptick in the revisions to editFilter and abuseFilter things, at least anecdotally. Are myself and Ottawahitech the only ones who saw these problems? Maybe they are browser-version-and-OS-version-specific... or maybe we two are just especially picky about five-nines uptime.  :-)   I've noticed less problems recently; do not remember seeing any generic-errors in the past several days. But I too would like to know if there is an http://uptime.wikimedia.org website, or somesuch, which gives overall successful-page-load-percentages, and such. 74.192.84.101 (talk) 17:31, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm on Firefox 25.0.1, Windows XP SP3. My two edits to Central line today both threw the error, but both went through on first attempt. I get quite a lot of this, but I've not been moaning about it: partly because it clogs up this page, partly because it adds more server load, but mostly because I know how to handle it. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:56, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
But... but... but moaning is so fun!  :-)   Agree this is not really the page where it will help, though. If you know some wizard that resides in a dark cave, back behind the server-farm, perhaps you can send them a ping? Because although you and I and Ottawahitech may know how to work around the problem, if the three of us are getting the intermittent error, prolly lots of beginning editors are also seeing some begging "for CA$H to buy better servers" as their first impression of the wikiverse (or second impression or tenth or whatever... hard to say without running a count-script on the raw webserver logfiles). That cannot be good, eh?
  Plus, there does not seem to be any peak-time-specificity to my experiences, they happened around the clock. That said, I have been over a week without seeing anything, so p'raps a wizard already waved their wand. But if you're still seeing the trouble now, strongly suggest pinging somebody; it strikes me as a caching-config-thing, which is repair-able on the cheap, as more likely than a brute-force-overload-thing. Anyways, I have business doing some clog-dancing elsewhere, so I leave it up to you. Thanks either way, and see you around. 74.192.84.101 (talk) 01:51, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Last time I saw a Wikimedia Foundation Error was 06:59, 26 November 2013‎. XOttawahitech (talk) 14:45, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Problem logging in

I received an email telling me that my account had been compromised etc. but I didn't pay any attention to it as I was under a three month ban then, now as my ban is well over and as i tried to log in I couldn't, I saw a screen with a hidden password already there, am asked to type new passwords but then I got an error message to the effect that I didn't have the permission to edit the page etc. I tried forgot password too, i received a password in my email but couldn't log in, tried forgot password one more time without success. I think I deleted the email I received. I could of-course create a new account but I am a little attached with my username. Please help. 103.29.99.176 (talk) 17:10, 18 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The email might have been the one refering to bugzilla:54847? Would love to know what exactly is the error message, and which page it refers to. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 15:25, 19 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"Change password: you must be logged in to access this page directly", since I've tried logging in using 3 times using "forgot password" which sent a password to my email ID, however, on entering the new password, another page is evoked on which I'm asked to reset my password, and then get the same message:
  • "Change password: you must be logged in to access this page directly".
If could send screen shots if I am given an address where they are to be sent. 117.195.66.201 (talk) 01:31, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I've emailed screen shots to your email address, the one on your user page aklapper(at)wikipedia.org, and thanks for looking into this. 117.195.66.201 (talk) 01:38, 20 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Hello! Anyone there! 117.195.86.146 (talk) 13:21, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
My user account was one of those affected by October 2013 private data security issue, I have been able to locate the email in my inbox. 117.195.86.146 (talk) 13:55, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
??? 117.195.81.41 (talk) 06:27, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the error message. As I wrote earlier, the page address would also be welcome. No need to send any screenshots to any addresses, text can be written as text and does not need to be in pictures. :) --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 12:53, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/October_2013_private_data_security_issue, "October 2013 private data security issue". Is this the page address you want? 59.94.209.14 (talk) 02:30, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
??? 117.195.78.119 (talk) 01:12, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
???? 117.195.65.15 (talk) 00:08, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
That's mildly annoying. In the future, try pinging Mr. AKlapper. You could also just post directly to his talk page. Killiondude (talk) 00:16, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Clickable button is broken

The clickable button templates, {{clickable button}} and {{clickable button 2}}, among others, have been broken for a few weeks. I assume this was due to a css or js change or the like. Compare the working buttons on Commons: commons:Template:Clickable_button. Anyone know how to fix these?--Sage Ross (WMF) (talk) 15:44, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I assume you're referring to the lack of "button" styling? Interestingly enough, [1] makes the buttons there render correctly, but they are unstyled when not in edit mode. Chris857 (talk) 15:49, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yes. And I just noticed the same thing, that they show up correctly in previews.--Sage Ross (WMF) (talk) 16:07, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
They currently work for me in all tested situations. There is a previous discussion at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 120#Dark blue over the word "wikicode" to the point where I can hardly see it. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:41, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
jQuery.ui is no longer loaded by default. See Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 119#jQuery UI CSS may no longer load by default and linked mailing list post. Anomie⚔ 16:50, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, that's helpful. Is there a fix, or are we just stuck waiting until the switchover is complete? (Or do we just need to deprecate these buttons?)--Sage Ross (WMF) (talk) 20:01, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Well we can fix them. But it adds again to the stack of javascript. So I guess the question is: Why do we need them with this styling ? —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 20:41, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Personally, I'd think having transclusion counts of 869 and 76,859 respectively would be enough of a reason to make sure these templates are working and continue to be supported, no? Technical 13 (talk) 21:01, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Why use JavaScript? It can be done with CSS alone. CSS is generally less of a burden for browsers then JS, and works for people who have JS disabled. CSS pseudo-classes can be used in MediaWiki:Common.css, which allow for different formatting when the user hovers over the button (:hover), clicks on the button (:active), or gives the button keyboard focus (:focus). – PartTimeGnome (talk | contribs) 23:17, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Well sort of my point. They no longer work, because jquery-ui is no longer needed by the core on every single page (and getting rid of unneeded dependencies is a good thing). So to bring them back, you either need to load all that CSS again (either all the time, or with JS only when there are buttons on the pages), or you decouple them from jquery-ui and implement some 'light' CSS on en.wp that doesn't have so much overhead and provides similar functionality. I'm not sure where these buttons are used, which contexts, which users, so it's a bit tough to call for me. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 18:50, 23 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
@GoingBatty: They look fine to me on both our pages. Maybe this got fixed by the time I saw this. — TheJJJunk (say hello) 15:03, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It works on both of those pages for me as well, but not on many others (for example, {{welcome student}}). It just depends on whether something else on the page causes the required code to be loaded, I guess.--Sage Ross (WMF) (talk) 15:15, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm, the button on that page appears correctly for me as well. Even before it was switched to clicakablebutton 2. I tried adding a button on my sandbox, and that also displays correctly. I must be special. Or I have a user preference set or a script that activates it? — TheJJJunk (say hello) 15:37, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm guessing what people seem to be experiencing where some buttons seem to work for some but not others is due to caching issues (at least we are going to blame it on that because it makes such a good scapegoat). Try BYPASSing and see if they still don't seem right. Technical 13 (talk) 16:28, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I've bypassed and cleared my caches on FF25 and IE10, and User:GoingBatty still doesn't show clickable buttons for me. :-( GoingBatty (talk) 01:42, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I've tried another computer with IE8, and I don't see the clickable buttons whether I'm logged in to WP or not. GoingBatty (talk) 14:17, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It seems much more likely to me that the reason people see different results, is because they have different gadgets/scripts enabled, which might be loading the code that the clickable button requires. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 15:12, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The buttons work for me, so I logged out, and they didn't work. When logged in, I commented out all my imported scripts and blanked my .css page, and the buttons still worked. Gadgets then? — TheJJJunk (say hello) 15:22, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
@TheJJJunk: Do you mind sharing what gadgets you have enabled? Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 16:02, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

These are all of the options I have enabled in the Gadgets section of my Preferences:

  • After rolling back an edit, automatically open the contributions of the user whose edit has been rolled back
  • Open external links in a new tab/window
  • Twinkle
  • "Ask a question" feature for the Wikimedia Foundation's "Teahouse" project
  • Reference Tooltips
  • Citation expander
  • HotCat, not checked in the gadgets, but imported through a script
  • Form for filing disputes at the dispute resolution noticeboard
  • CharInsert
  • Add an [edit] link for the lead section of a page
  • Add a "Sandbox" link to the personal toolbar area.
  • Display diffs with the old yellow/green colors and design.

If you want to go through the scripts I have included as well, I have some on my common.js and vector.js I think. — TheJJJunk (say hello) 17:51, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Aha - enabling Twinkle fixes the clickable button, and disabling breaks it again. Anyway to have the button work without using Twinkle? I also noticed that with Twinkle disabled, the buttons don't appear when I'm reading User:GoingBatty, but they do appear in edit preview mode. Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 00:03, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
As Anomie said way up, jquery.ui is no longer loaded by default, and the button relies on some of its styles.
Unsurprisingly activating a gadget that requires jquery.ui (like Twinkle) will make the styles available, and I assume the editing toolbar also uses jquery.ui which explains why it happens to work there.
Amalthea 10:13, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Since we weren't getting anywhere, i've proposed to add the most efficient loader that I could come up with to fix this problem. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 13:12, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Reference problem

It used to be that you could click on a "^" next to a reference and it would direct you back up to where the citation is from in the text. Those carets have disappeared, at least for me. Was there a change recently? --Coemgenus (talk) 22:00, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You didn't give an example so I don't know whether you are looking at an article using another reference system, but I see "^" at for example Thomas F. Bayard#References. If a reference is used more than once then "^" is not a link. Instead there are letters linking to each use. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:20, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
OK, it must be a problem on my end somehow, because that article isn't working for me. I held CTRL and hit reload and they appeared for a second, then vanished. Using Chrome browser. --Coemgenus (talk) 22:23, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
All right, it came back when I disabled the "Near this page" beta feature. That's a bug, I guess. Is there someplace I should report it? --Coemgenus (talk) 22:29, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Bugs should be reported at mw:Talk:Beta Features/Nearby Pages. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 22:42, 24 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
According to mw:Talk:Beta Features/Nearby Pages#Disrupts footnote linking from reflist to article footnotes there is already a fix in gerrit:97143 but I guess it hasn't been deployed yet. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:28, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Links next to citations in reflist

I'm guessing that this problem is related to "Reference problem" up above, but that section is too vague for me to be sure. As long as I can remember, the reflist has had a ^ next to each number, which when clicked takes the reader to the spot where that citation is referenced; or when <ref name=whatever> and <ref name=whatever /> are used, we get a series of letters (a, b, etc.), each of which will take the reader to the reference spot when clicked. Within this month (seemingly in the last week or two) these have disappeared without warning or explanation; any idea what's going on? It's plainly a skin problem: these letters are missing when I view pages in Monobook with Firefox 25.0.1 and with IE 8, but when I use Vector, both browsers display the links properly. Nyttend (talk) 01:45, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Have you enabled "Near this page" at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-betafeatures? If so, does it help to disable it? PrimeHunter (talk) 02:23, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I've never checked the beta features, given the mess they made of removing the orange bar. I was completely unaware that the "Near this page" even existed, so no, I've not enabled it. Nyttend (talk) 17:28, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I forgot to specify that for the same period of time I've been having what otherwise would seem to be an unrelated problem. Whenever I go to a category with subcategories, I've traditionally been able to find the sub-subcategories by clicking the little arrow next to the name of the subcategory. However, for the last week or two, clicking the little arrow always produces a message of "Problem loading data. Please wait a moment and try again." The second sentence is a link that effectively refreshes the category page. Has anyone else witnessed such a problem? Nyttend (talk) 17:55, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
What happens if you log out and view https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_F._Bayard?useskin=monobook#References and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_F._Bayard?useskin=vector#References? In Firefox 25.0.1 I see ^ in both MonoBook and Vector, both logged in and out. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:35, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I see everything properly when logged out, and when I view them in Vector while logged in, things are just as wrong as when I'm in Monobook. I didn't feel like switching skins just for this, so I'd been logging out before in order to use Vector; I never knew about the ?useskin thing. Time to check my preferences, I guess. Thanks for diagnosing it! Nyttend (talk) 14:11, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

503 errors on the API

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T59026

My bot was trying to edit WT:WikiProject Elements, except it encountered this error:

Request: POST http://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.php, from 208.80.154.76 via cp1065 frontend ([10.2.2.25]:80), Varnish XID 3892616765
Forwarded for: myip, 208.80.154.76
Error: 503, Service Unavailable at Mon, 25 Nov 2013 00:08:11 GMT

But despite this, the edit went through. Does anyone have an idea of what's going on with this? →Σσς. (Sigma) 02:16, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds like a timeout while saving. Note that some changes coming with 1.23wmf5 should improve the timeout-while-saving situation, see Template:Bug for details and mw:MediaWiki 1.23/Roadmap for the deployment schedule. Anomie⚔ 03:52, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
And I get a similar error every time I transclude a new template on Template talk:Did you know. There are already hundreds of transclusions there, so it will be complex and slow to render too. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 09:33, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Interesting. I would expect the edit to actually fail, though. →Σσς. (Sigma) 09:50, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The varnish (and previously, the squid) caches have a shorter timeout than the apache backends do. So it's easily possible for an edit to exceed the cache's timeout (returning an error to the client) while the apache continues processing the edit and eventually saves it. The effect of Template:Bug is to make MediaWiki have to parse the page three times during the saving process; after the two changes linked in that bug are deployed here, MediaWiki should only be having to parse it once. Anomie⚔ 13:08, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I made four edits to 2013 global surveillance disclosures, an exceptionally long article. My changes were completed every time, but I received at least three 503 errors (my browser crashed one time as it often does when I make an edit, so there may have been a fourth error I didn't see). Here's one of them:

Request: POST http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2013_global_surveillance_disclosures&action=submit, from 208.80.154.75 via cp1066 frontend ([10.2.2.25]:80), Varnish XID 674254935

Forwarded for: 24.24.213.60, 208.80.154.75

Error: 503, Service Unavailable at Mon, 25 Nov 2013 18:50:20 GMT

—rybec 20:19, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This should no longer be happening now. Matma Rex talk 08:57, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

What makes you say that? →Σσς. (Sigma) 09:42, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Having had that fixed. :) See the bug linked above. Are you saying it is still happening? Matma Rex talk 09:58, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, now I see comment 19 on the bug. Well, this news is certainly better than the prospect of waiting a week and some. I'll see if I get these errors again tomorrow afternoon. Thank you for fixing this! →Σσς. (Sigma) 10:43, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I can confirm - StatisticianBot was unable to update since November 8th, but now is functioning again - thanks! —Daniel Vandersluis(talk) 18:21, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Although the situation is much better than it was before, I've just caught three more non-errors today. Is there any reason why Squid/Varnish has a shorter timeout at all? →Σσς. (Sigma) 23:30, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I just received another, on a different article:

Request: POST http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Missing_Wikipedians&action=submit, from 10.64.32.105 via cp1065 cp1065 ([10.64.0.102]:3128), Varnish XID 3442079087

Forwarded for: 24.24.213.60, 208.80.154.8, 10.64.32.105

Error: 503, Service Unavailable at Wed, 27 Nov 2013 00:16:06 GMT

—rybec 00:18, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I have started to see this quite reproducibly as of a few minutes ago; some code in my common.js that queries the API about the database lag status (and disables autostart of some other scripts if so) has been failing. (I used the Live HTTP Headers extension for Firefox to confirm that there are indeed 503 errors occurring.) --SoledadKabocha (talk) 03:46, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Never mind, it might have cleared up during the few minutes it took to write that edit. --SoledadKabocha (talk) 03:47, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

GeSHi tab size

(Originally posted at MediaWiki talk:Geshi.css#Tab size.)

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T59824
Tracked in Phabricator
Task T59825
Tracked in Phabricator
Task T59826

The CodeEditor extension here displays four-column-wide tabs, instead of the default eight, and now binds the Tab key to the tab character. I propose displaying four-column-wide tabs when viewing pages such as MediaWiki:Common.css and Module:Convert/data, to make them more readable, especially on smaller screens. At the Vietnamese Wikipedia, we added the following CSS rule: 

div.mw-geshi div,
div.mw-geshi div pre,
span.mw-geshi,
pre.source-css,
pre.source-javascript,
pre.source-lua {
    -moz-tab-size: 4; -o-tab-size: 4; tab-size: 4;
}

It currently works with recent versions of Firefox, Chrome, and Opera, as well as WebKit nightly builds. Does anyone have any objections to adding this rule to MediaWiki:Geshi.css?

 – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 10:21, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I support this change, as it will fix the appearance of modules that have a mixture of indenting with four spaces and tabs. CodeEditor previously used four spaces for indenting, and then it switched to using tabs, so it is possible for editors to use two styles of indenting in the same module without being aware of it. At present, CodeEditor uses tabs that appear four characters wide, but when you save the page and the code is displayed in GeSHi, the tabs are displayed eight characters wide. This makes the indentation seem wrong and can be confusing. Switching to this CSS would fix that for browsers that support it. From Anomie's comment at the Lua style guide discussion that Minh Nguyễn linked above, I gather that this fix won't work with "IE, older Safari, Android browser, and maybe others", but that still seems better than what we have at the moment. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 10:44, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Browser compatibility chart: http://caniuse.com/#feat=css3-tabsize (I see the next version of Android browser is now listed as having support for this). Anomie⚔ 13:12, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Since the selectors are already present in Common.css, it'd make better sense to put it there. — Edokter (talk) — 19:08, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I suggested Geshi.css because Meta's Geshi.css imports it, and I figured that other wikis do that too. But I'd be happy to make the change separately at Meta. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 14:42, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I could also move the font fix to GeSHI.css. — Edokter (talk) — 19:49, 26 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Wouldn't it be better to integrate this with the GeSHi extension, or with MediaWiki altogether? I don't think anyone would ever want a tab size equivalent to 8 spaces; it'd make sense to make the default tab size 4 for all <pre>...</pre> elements (or even non-pre elements) in MediaWiki, which would fix this problem and others at the same time, and make it apply to other projects (both Wikimedia and non-Wikimedia projects). --Rastus Vernon (talk) 03:04, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Good idea: I opened Bug 57,824. In the process of filing that bug, I discovered that the SyntaxHighlight GeSHi extension is actually converting tabs to eight literal spaces when parsing and rendering a page: I opened Bug 57,826 for that. And Lua modules will be addressed by the fix for '824 once Bug 57,825 is fixed. Thanks for your feedback, everyone! – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 04:09, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Toolserver seriously funked up

Replication lag is now at over three weeks and counting. Any assistance with this problem would be much appreciated. DavidLeighEllis (talk) 01:29, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

WMF+WMDE have chosen to axe the Toolserver, so most people have given up and don't care. You can use Labs: [2]. Legoktm (talk) 06:26, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. DavidLeighEllis (talk) 15:06, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Would it be possible to add a notice to the old version, so people know?--S Philbrick(Talk) 17:41, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, before tool server dies, we intend to turn it into a redirect page to let everyone know to change their links to point to labs.—cyberpower OnlineMerry Christmas 14:04, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Twinkle puts requests in wrong sections of WP:RFPP

I figured that Twinkle puts move-protected pages into a section of protection-downgrade requests, but I merely ask extra protection, not removal of protection or reduction. --George Ho (talk) 07:24, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

SeeWT:TW#TW not working for RFPP where this is already under discussion. Amalthea 23:49, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"Inventory pages" to keep track of every cleanup template for each WikiProject on Wikipedia

Hello all. I have outlined an idea at m:Grants:IEG/Automated inventory pages for all WikiProjects. The gist of the idea is this: a nice page, inspired off of the wikiHow model, should exist for each WikiProject, in order to keep track of all cleanup templates. In hindsight, I shouldn't have applied for the grant without already having technical expertise lined up, but I've been convinced this is a good idea for all WikiProjects for almost 18 months now. Does anyone with technical expertise think they might like to be hired to work on this project? I need to find technical assistance for the idea to succeed. I will likely re-submit the grant in the beginning of 2014. Thanks. Biosthmors (talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{U}}) while signing a reply, thx 15:19, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

How Do I edit wikipedia using javascript on monobook.js

I want to make a javascript (user script) that automatically edits a page (without needing to press any buttons). This will be very helpful for tagging. I one day wish to make something similar to twinkle. But I need to start somewhere...Finally An Account (talk) 17:31, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

How do I get https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:User_scripts/Guide to work.Finally An Account (talk) 18:24, 27 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Have you ever programmed in javascript? Ruslik_Zero 02:28, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
If you are planning to make a series of edits automatically, you need to read the Wikipedia:Bot policy. -- John of Reading (talk) 08:30, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
As noted in several sections below, Finally An Account has been blocked. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 23:02, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

External links search

Dear tech editors: At Wikiproject Canada there is a small crisis because the online Canadian Encyclopedia has reorganized its articles (insert appropriate epithet here), causing all links to these articles to need an update (see this discussion). To facilitate this, one of the Wikiproject Canada members performed an external links search ([3]), which found only a little over 500 links. This is far from the total, and indeed the first two articles that I looked for weren't on this list. Is there a reason that the external link search isn't picking up all of the links, and is there a way to expand the search to include all instances of http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com ? —Anne Delong (talk) 04:05, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It's better to use the wildcard "*" at the start of an external links search. A search for http://*.thecanadianencyclopedia.com comes up with 5,550 results. Graham87 05:28, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
This sounds like a good task for a bot. Anne, have you asked at Wikipedia:Bot requests? — Mr. Stradivarius on tour ♪ talk ♪ 08:38, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
No, I was just trying to figure out why the search didn't work as expected. Looks like Graham's suggestion has found a lot more. Thanks! I think fixing 5,000 dead links should keep the Canadians distracted for some time...no sneaking over the border, now...no, wait, that was 1813. Seriously, though, Mr. Stradivarius on tour, what could a bot do that is different from/better than the external link search? —Anne Delong (talk) 14:45, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
He might be thinking that a bot could fix the links on these 5,000-odd pages. This would be possible if there is some way to figure out the new URL from the old one, or if uniquely-identifying information from the old URL can be used in a site search. – PartTimeGnome (talk | contribs) 21:35, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, PartTimeGnome has read my mind correctly. I should have been more clear about that, sorry. :) I'm not a fan of making humans do something if a computer can do it instead. — Mr. Stradivarius on tour ♪ talk ♪ 23:10, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Superfluous line-break in template

Hello.

Could someone help identify where there's an unnecessary line-break in {{Year in Norway}}. The line-break is transcluded, which makes the articles that use the template look a bit awkward.

Thanks.

HandsomeFella (talk) 11:35, 3 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I removed some line breaks between categories that seemed extraneous, which fixes the issue in tests, but the whitespace is still showing up when this template is used just after {{Use dmy dates}} (as seems to be the case with most of its uses). equazcion → 11:59, 3 Nov 2013 (UTC)
This seems to be caused by the line break in the code before the wikitable begins. Since that wikitable code needs to be at the beginning of its own line, I can't find a way to get rid of the whitespace, aside from chopping off everything that comes before it (which does effectively remove the whitespace in these articles, FYI). This seems like it might be a common issue for templates so maybe someone knows of a solution I'm unaware of. equazcion → 12:07, 3 Nov 2013 (UTC)
I think there is at least some improvement. Thanks for trying. HandsomeFella (talk) 14:29, 3 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I've managed to fix it. That was a tricky one. A single line break before the table is fine, the problem was caused by having two consecutive line breaks before the table. The first line break is not in the template itself, but in the articles that use it (between the {{Use dmy dates}} and {{Year in Norway}} templates). The fix was to put something between those line breaks to stop them being consecutive, but that doesn't cause a visible gap itself. An empty <nowiki/> tag did the trick. – PartTimeGnome (talk | contribs) 16:33, 3 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The real problem was the text before the beginning of the table, which introduces a whiteline before the {| class=. See the warning about whitelines on WP:NOINCLUDE. I moved the text to the beginning of the template, and removed the <includeonly> tag. The obvious minus being that the page Template:Year in Norway itself now looks ugly. Debresser (talk) 09:08, 5 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I think you've misunderstood the warning at WP:NOINCLUDE. It refers to white space before <noinclude>, after </noinclude>, after <includeonly> or before </includeonly>, warning that said white space will be included in the template's output. There wasn't any white space on either side of the <includeonly> tags you removed. I tested re-adding them without making any other change, and the template still displayed correctly in the article 1972 in Norway (I didn't save this test).
Also, your changes moved text inside the table, but before the first table row, which is neither valid nor logical. The error text is intended to be shown outside the infobox, so should not be inside the table. Your changed worked in articles thanks to HTML Tidy fixing the invalid markup by moving it outside the table. If you'd tried this at Special:ExpandTemplates (where HTML Tidy does not run), invalid HTML is generated due to a <span> tag between <table> and the first <tr>. W3C's validator reports "Start tag span seen in table. Cannot recover after last error. Any further errors will be ignored.". (There are two other errors reported by the validator, but those are down to HTML generated by MediaWiki itself, unrelated to the template.)
Since your changes generated invalid HTML and messed up the appearance of the template page itself, I have undone them. (I completed your move of the category to the doc page. The doc page is the right place for categories.)
PS: I see you made several attempts before you found something you liked. Please don't make test edits on a live template. You can see what effect your changes will have on another page without saving by using the "Preview page with this template" options beneath the edit box. – PartTimeGnome (talk | contribs) 23:57, 5 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
<includeonly>...</includeonly> is bad template engineering to begin with. You should just have a dummy default variable value in <noinclude>...</noinclude> tags in the #if conditional, like {{{1|<noinclude>dummy year</noinclude>}}}. Then you can include a default value for {{{1|}}} so that the template displays on its own page. VanIsaacWS Vexcontribs 00:37, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with you completely that one template per line is the standard, and looks good. I was surprised you didn't see the whiteline: it is the break between the end of the remark about the red warning text and the beginning of the table with {|. That is why I moved the warning inside the template. Even conceptually, I think the warning is not out of place inside the template proper, as you claim above. The biggest minus I see is that the template page became real ugly. Debresser (talk) 01:17, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Er... I did see that. See my first post in this section: "A single line break before the table...". As I think you realised, a line break is required before a table unless it is the first thing in the template. This is not normally a problem since a single line break does not create a gap; it is only when combined with another line break from the transcluding page that a gap appears. Since it is clearly no-one's intent that these two line breaks should combine to make a gap, I added the <nowiki/> to stop them combining. (Perhaps in a more logical markup language, code from inside and outside a template would not be allowed to combine like this.)
I think there might be an argument for showing the error message inside the table, but it would have to be done properly so it actually displayed inside the table rather than being moved out again by HTML Tidy. Another idea would be to replace the table with the error message, since nothing else in the template makes sense if the parameter was omitted.
The template page becoming ugly was more down to removing the <includeonly> tags (see my next reply). – PartTimeGnome (talk | contribs) 23:23, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I know that the template becoming ugly was because the <includeonly> tags were removed. But that in its turn was done to remove the whiteline before the beginning of the template. You really don't need to speak with me as though I am making my first edit on intricate templates, and then perhaps you will also understand me better. Debresser (talk) 02:12, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
My apologies. I tend to be rather verbose, and I understand how I might seem like that. I'm not very good at adjusting my tone for the person I'm talking to. I do not consider you to be a beginner at template editing.
I guess you didn't see my other reply below? I already addressed your claim that removing the <includeonly> tags eliminated whitespace. (Sorry if I confused matters by making multiple replies in a single edit last night.) – PartTimeGnome (talk | contribs) 21:39, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
@PartTimeGnome See below (now above—PTG) for my response. Just wanted to mention here that I did not err in my reference to WP:NOINCLUDE, and it is precisely that whiteline issue I was referring to. Just that often people don't recognize the whiteline. Debresser (talk) 01:24, 6 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
(I have moved your response above, to be immediately after the post to which you were responding.) One of us is misunderstanding that WP:NOINCLUDE bit, we both understand it but don't understand each other, or we're both thoroughly confused . I did test that taking your latest version of {{Year in Norway}} and re-adding the <includeonly> tags did not cause any gaps to appear. For example, see how that appears in "1972 in Norway", one of the articles that displayed a gap before either of us edited the template. – PartTimeGnome (talk | contribs) 23:23, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Vanisaac, you make a good point. I've made the changes you suggested. I used {{CURRENTYEAR}} for the default value to show on the template page. – PartTimeGnome (talk | contribs) 23:23, 7 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The unnatural extra code can be avoided by moving the code generating the warning after the table. There will obviously not be a whiteline, while the warning will still be displayed in the same position. Debresser (talk) 01:53, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Fixing the problem in other templates

That's interesting. This trick could fix the common problem that occurs whenever two "invisible" templates are placed at the top of an article. See the white space at the top of User:John of Reading/Sandbox. -- John of Reading (talk) 16:56, 3 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The first three templates in your sandbox all use {{Dated maintenance category}}. Adding a <nowiki/> to that template fixes the gap in your sandbox too. Before I make a protected edit request, can anyone think of any undesirable side effects this could cause? – PartTimeGnome (talk | contribs) 17:53, 3 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I would strongly oppose the addition of stray code to template. First of all because another user will surely remove it sooner or later, not knowing why it is there. Secondly, because it is ugly. It is against all rules of coding to do such things. But the main reason is that there is a simpler solution to the problem: put all the invisible templates right after each other without any spaces between them. See User:John of Reading/Sandbox where I did so and the whitespaces are gone. We could add a warning about this to the documentation of certain templates like {{Use dmy dates}} and others, but even if there would be an extra space, this is not a big problem. Debresser (talk) 11:42, 4 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Alternatively, since templates like {{use dmy dates}} or {{use British English}} do nothing except categorise, put them with the other cats - at the bottom. Any spurious blank lines which may be generated will be much less obtrusive in such a position. There is precedent for this, since templates like {{coord|display=title}} which place their output somewhere other than the actual position of the template, are typically placed at the bottom as well. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:52, 4 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Another thing that might artificially reduce the problem is adding the problematic templates to {{Multiple issues}}. Debresser (talk) 07:27, 5 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
There are problems with that. {{multiple issues}} is for enclosing cleanup message boxes: requests to fix the article, to be removed when the fix has been done; when all have been done, and when there are none left to fix, {{multiple issues}} gets removed as well. By contrast, {{use dmy dates}} and similar are not requests to fix the article - they are permanent indicators of the article's writing style. If the article has no cleanup issues, and you add 
{{multiple issues|
{{use dmy dates|date=November 2013}}
{{use British English|date=November 2013}}
}}
it looks kind of odd, see User:Redrose64/Sandbox5, it's got a blank area within the {{multiple issues}} box with the implication that there should be some message or other. --Redrose64 (talk) 15:41, 5 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
You are right. Thanks. Debresser (talk) 21:07, 5 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding someone possibly removing the code because it is not clear what it does, an <!-- editor comment --> will fix that. (I'd hope administrators would show more care editing a fully protected template, but maybe I hope for too much... )
On the point about ugliness, I agree, but I couldn't think of a better way to do it. There is much that is ugly about MediaWiki's markup language, so we often have to do ugly things to get the job done.
As for the "simpler" solution: good luck getting editors to use the templates all on one line. Many editors find placing each template on a separate line to be more intuitive, as evidenced by the many pages where this is the case. Generally, templates should be designed to be easy for editors to use, rather than expecting editors to adapt to their quirks. Templates should try to hide the complexities of wiki markup from the people that use them. One template per line is certainly easier to read. Keep the ugly stuff in a template so other editors don't need to worry about it.
One template per line is consistent with how categories are normally used (given the main purpose of the templates is categorisation): categories are typically one-per-line too. Also note that the current behaviour is inconsistent: where the template outputs a category, it is safe to use one per line. Where it outputs nothing, it will cause a gap. Code that looks fine in article space will show with gaps when copied to a user sandbox (because the categories are suppressed in userspace). – PartTimeGnome (talk | contribs) 23:00, 5 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that templates are best placed on consecutive lines. I still strongly oppose the addition of code for the purpose of avoiding whitelines. It is a counter-intuitive non-solution. If the problem, i.e. a whiteline, should arise in any given article, it should be taken care of on an ad hoc basis, just like we did with the Year in Norway template. Debresser (talk) 17:07, 9 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It is counter-intuitive, but I don't think an intuitive solution exists. I don't think "non-solution" is the right word, since it does solve the blank line issue. Why should this be solved over and over on a case-by-case basis when it can be solved once for all cases? The editors using the templates might not know how to fix the unwanted blank lines. If we fix it in the template, they would never be troubled by the problem in the first place.
I don't know if you'll like this any better, but here's an alternative proposed edit for {{Dated maintenance category}}. (Here's John's sandbox example using the new version.) I've added comments explaining why the nowiki tags are there. Furthermore, because no blank line occurs when a category is output, the nowiki tag is only used if the template won't output any category. – PartTimeGnome (talk | contribs) 23:33, 10 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I called it a "non-solution" because it is only a workaround. The real problem is the existence of whitelines, in the code of the other templates or simply in the articles if the templates are placed on different lines. The alternative proposal is the same as the first, with an added explanation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Debresser (talk • contribs) 08:00, 11 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It is a workaround, but it's better than nothing. I didn't think you'd like my tweaks any better, but figured I'd give it a try anyway.
I think it's too late for the ideal solution of modifying the wiki mark-up language to be more sensible. The real problem is the inconsistent behaviour: when the template outputs a category or a <nowiki/>, it can be used one-per-line without a gap (even though there is no visible output). When the template outputs nothing, the line it is on is treated as blank so causes a gap. My workaround resolves this inconsistency. I think the behaviour many editors expect is that a line with a template should not leave a gap unless the template contains a gap. – PartTimeGnome (talk | contribs) 22:57, 11 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Question: instead of outputting a non-intuitive <nowiki />, what would happen if it output a soft space? This should be possible using the HTML entity &#32; --Redrose64 (talk) 00:31, 12 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, that change works (tested with John's sandbox example). – PartTimeGnome (talk | contribs) 22:08, 12 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that this is better than a closing tag without an opening tag, which was, as Redrose64 put it mildly, non-intuitive. Adding an explanatory remark also helps. Even though I prefer to keep the problem in some cases, when it can be removed by good coding of templates like we did with Years in Norway, I do see the advantages of removing the problem, even with a workaround. Debresser (talk) 00:38, 14 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
That's not what I said. The post to which you refer states "a non-intuitive <nowiki />" - <nowiki /> is not a closing tag (which would be </nowiki>); it is an empty-element tag, one that opens and immediately closes - it is an element that has no content. The syntactic difference is that a closing tag has the slash first; an empty-element tag has the slash last.
I meant that by using <nowiki /> it is not clear what is intended. The normal use of nowiki is in a construct like <nowiki>[[link]]</nowiki> so that Wiki markup is not processed but displayed as plain text, so when somebody sees <nowiki /> which is exactly equivalent to <nowiki></nowiki> they might think "what's the point of preventing wiki markup from being processed when there's none actually there?" But by using &#32; it's (I hope) clearer that something is intended, even if it's not obvious why a normal keyboard space has not been used. --Redrose64 (talk) 00:59, 14 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the explanation. I indeed had not noticed the difference. Your explanation made me agree with your point no less. Debresser (talk) 11:07, 14 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

New information

I have reposted this section from the archive, in view of new information.

Please see this edit, that the two template Use dmy dates and Use Australian English in front of an infobox result in a whiteline only if there are no protection templates in the middle. Can anyone explain that?? Debresser (talk) 14:25, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You commented out the protection templates, but did not comment out the line breaks on either side of them. Comments are discarded early in parsing, so what was left after removing the comment was a blank line. You would not have gotten a blank line had you started the comment at the end of the previous line, and finished it at the start of the next line. – PartTimeGnome (talk | contribs) 21:26, 28 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I understand. It is rather the other side of this that interests me. How come that the protection templates stop the whiteline from appearing? Debresser (talk) 00:45, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Those templates do not expand to be empty. Their expansion shows that they add several categories to the page. – PartTimeGnome (talk | contribs) 22:41, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
That was my guess. I thought it would have to be actual text, but I see that not. Thanks. This perhaps opens a new solution to the problem above: do we have anything non-empty that does not do anything? I tried {{Void}}, but that didn't help. Any other ideas? Debresser (talk) 17:48, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Well, my original suggestion of <nowiki /> fits the bill, and Redrose64's suggestion of &#32; works too. Some empty XHTML tags such as <span /> also work. – PartTimeGnome (talk | contribs) 15:18, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Then I say, let's do it, just that we need to add a remark with some explanation, to avoid other editors removing it, as discussed above. I still think it an ugly ad-hoc solution, but I see no better way. Debresser (talk) 19:03, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, protected edit request made! – PartTimeGnome (talk | contribs) 23:21, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Login with the HTTP version of wikipedia, NOT THE HTTPS VERSION

How to login with the HTTP version? not the goddamn HTTPS version? I can view pages in HTTP and HTTPS but whenever i login it go straight to HTTPS EVERY FREAKING GODDAMN TIME AND I CAN'T CHANGE IT BACK 2607:FCD0:100:C21:0:0:4E05:A9B7 (talk) 06:03, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You shouldn't be logging into the http version. Why is this a problem? --Jorm (WMF) (talk) 07:08, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
because the HTTPS version is blocked, the HTTP version isn't 2607:FCD0:100:C21:0:0:4E05:A9B7 (talk) 07:17, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
If you can register a user, you can set your preferences to say use http and not https. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 09:11, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
If you have 0 access to https, then that doesn't help him much, because all login actions are ALWAYS https for password security reasons. He would have to do it on a laptop outside of the network, login (with the 30 days option set), setup the user correctly to allow http, then take the laptop on this stupid network with block https, and he could use it for 30 days if he is lucky to browse the http version. Out of curiosity, I wonder what place blocks https traffic these days ? School/Library/work/country ? —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 09:34, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Why do editors keep making statements like "You shouldn't be logging into the http version"? There are other good reasons for using http e.g. you can't use stored edit summaries in https in IE10, and can we please avoid the usual arrogant statements about users of IE? Thank you - Arjayay (talk) 09:46, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
No, storing edit summaries is definitely NOT a good reason to use insecure HTTP for login, as long as convenience is not more important to you than your own safety. Did you contact Microsoft to fix that in IE? --Malyacko (talk) 10:16, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure what "as long as convenience is not more important to you" means. However, edit summaries are a very good reason to use HTTP - Perhaps, as you are clearly an "expert", and work for WMF. you would like to contact Microsoft, and sort this out BEFORE enforcing it upon all editors? - I look forward to receiving your report in 2015 - if you are very lucky.
I understand WMF is wondering why so many experienced editors are leaving? I'm not claiming any great contribution to the encyclopedia - 45K edits - but this sort of arrogance and "we know best" attitude is most likely to cause me to leave. Arjayay (talk) 20:22, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
(e/c) Because you shouldn't (and you are no longer allowed actually), because you are endangering your password in that way. Using wikipedia over http (which is what the option in the preferences allows you to do) is something other than logging in. Using only potentially exposes your login session (people might be able to impersonate you) and your reading behavior. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 10:30, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I would appreciate knowing where it states that http "Is no longer allowed" - if that is really so - why is there still an "opt-in" for HTTPS?
Unfortunately, I don't understand the rest of your comment "Using only potentially exposes" - could you please explain. -Arjayay (talk) 20:22, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Using HTTP to transmit your password is no longer allowed, nor possible (unless you are in one of the excluded countries). Using HTTP to read and write pages is possible by selecting the option in the preferences, and you will get none of the protections listed in the first paragraph of this page, which is still dangerous. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 22:34, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

i already posted above ragarding this issue, tho i think its my fault that i didn't make it clear, so i apologise. Basically, yes, it is possible to force the http and not the https version AFTER LOGGING IN, the problem IS, Special:userLogin is ALWAYS a HTTPS page regard les of the settings. in the People's Republic Of China, the http version of the site is allowed but the https version is block. but as special:userLogin is A HTTPS PAGE youve bascally block all chinese User From Edit Wikipedia. nice job guys. so my question is : how to userLogin as HTTP and NOT THE HTTPS VERSION????? Damnnnnnnnnnnnn 2607:FCD0:100:C21:0:0:4E05:A9B7 (talk) 10:04, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Provenly incorrect statements (like "youve bascally block all chinese User") don't help your argumentation. --Malyacko (talk) 10:20, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I suspect that the software isn't aware yet that you are located inside China. For that reason, you don't fall in the exception group where people are allowed to login using http. The majority of editors from china should be able to login using http. You are editing over IPv6 and I suspect that the GeoIP databases that we rely upon to guess if someone is located in China don't have the information yet that pinpoints your IP address as belonging somewhere in China. This might still take some time, but once it is known the option to login over http should be available to you. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 10:36, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Your IP address resolves to something in the LA, United States area btw.. Are you using TOR for these posts ? —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 12:51, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
They can't be. TOR is blocked across the board.--Jorm (WMF) (talk) 22:13, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Code enhancements, not a Bot, a Userscript!

Hi, I made the following script (and no I am not trying to make a bot) 

var x=0;
 
while(x<10){
    x = x+1;
    addOnloadHook( function() {
            var i=0;
            while(i<5){
                i = i+1;
                var t = document.editform.wpTextbox1;
                t.value = t.value + "\n==New section==\n";
                document.editform.wpTextbox1.value = "{" + "{wikify}}\n\n" + document.editform.wpTextbox1.value;
                document.editform.submit();
            }
    } );
}

But the problem I it puts 50 “wikify” rather than editing 10 times with 5 ‘wikify’s. I want it to put 5 wikify and new section 10 times over, no I am not making a bot. I am aware of bot policy, I just need it for some userscripts I have planned.Finally An Account (talk) 17:46, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply] 

for(var x = 0; x < 10; x++){
    addOnloadHook( function() {
        var t = document.editform.wpTextbox1;
        t.value = t.value + "\n==New section==\n";
        for(var i = 0; i < 5; i++){
            document.editform.wpTextbox1.value = "{" + "{wikify}}\n\n" + document.editform.wpTextbox1.value;
            document.editform.submit();
        }
    });
}
  • For the last fucking time, NO! I just want a script that edits 10 times automatically, for a script I want to make (that makes editing more friendly). What happened to AGF and why is every-one so suspicious?It's just a damn user-script.Finally An Account (talk) 19:32, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure what you want your script to do, but you know that {{wikify}} has been deprecated, right? Happy coding! GoingBatty (talk) 19:55, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
That's just a test. What I really want to do is create a 'wiki-intelligence' userscript that can make multiple edits for you (by responding to certain strings).Finally An Account (talk) 19:59, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Why would you want to do this as a string of multiple edits to one article rather than a single edit? And aren't you just proposing replicating WP:AWB without its safeguards? Mogism (talk) 20:03, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A single huge edit would be slow, a bot converting it to multiple edits will be much faster than the user adding info bit by bit. It would benefit all those with mobile broadband.Finally An Account (talk) 20:06, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There's a bit of disparity between your first post and your most recent post to this discussion. You said you were not trying to write a bot, but then write about "a bot converting it to multiple edits". To resolve this ambiguity: the script you quoted makes edits without human intervention, therefore it is a bot. From the bot policy: bots are "generally programs or scripts that make automated edits without the necessity of human decision-making". If you wanted to use something like this outside your own userspace you'd need approval.
As for problems with the script: Each edit page can only be submitted once. If using the edit form to make edits (there are other ways), a new form must be loaded for each edit. Note that submitting the form loads a new page, which would interrupt execution of the script.
Your final comment is also incorrect: multiple edits are slower than one huge edit. Each edit requires at least two requests to the server, and includes the full text of the section being edited (including parts you didn't change). Though a bot could do multiple edits faster than a human, it could do a single edit even faster. – PartTimeGnome (talk | contribs) 23:35, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Assuming good faith: Maybe the original poster could explain, in prose, the intended goal of the script. I always find, especially with technical problems, that it helps to explain the desired goal or outcome. Sometimes you even figure out the answer yourself while you are explaining the desired outcome in detail. – Jonesey95 (talk) 16:17, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

information Note: The below was originally posted to a new section, "Basic bot on my userspace using javascript". I've merged it here since it is clearly a continuation of this discussion. – PartTimeGnome (talk | contribs) 16:28, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, so I want to aid in contributing to wikipedia Bots. First though, I want to make a basic bot that edits only my userspace using javascript (I thought this was allowed without permission). I want to make a simple bot that edits my userspace (possibly a sub-page) and makes 10 edits automatically (with whatever content). If ever want to even dream of contributing to a bot, I at least have to make this first.Finally An Account (talk) 10:41, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

See mw:API and mw:API:Edit for information about the API you can use. Matma Rex talk 12:39, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
See Wikipedia:Creating a bot. Javascript is generally not used for bots. Since it executes in the browser, it has to be able to finish in ~30 seconds or run asyncronously, which can add a lot of complication to a program. You can get a javascript interpreter that runs out of a browser, but, as a programming language on its own, it doesn't really have many benefits. And once you start trying to do anything seriously complex, you're probably going to start running into its limitations. Most bots on Wikipedia are written in Perl, Python, or PHP. Libraries for those languages are all available (and linked on that page I mentioned), so you don't have to reinvent the wheel in terms of just editing a page. Mr.Z-man 15:13, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Why the fuck am I getting "Action throttled As an anti-spam measure, you are limited from performing this action too many times in a short space of time, and you have exceeded this limit. Please try again in a few minutes." When trying to edit my own userspace?Finally An Account (talk) 16:03, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

To reduce the potential for abuse, MediaWiki limits the speed of editing for regular users. These limits apply to all namespaces, including userspace. Approved bots can be flagged to be excluded from the rate limits (if there is good reason for them to edit rapidly). Since you are just testing, I suggest you write your bot to delay a few seconds between edits.
Also, given that you accidentally ran your bot on this page a little while ago, please add code to check that the bot is on the right page before submitting an edit. – PartTimeGnome (talk | contribs) 16:38, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I have finally achieved full automation, with a little help from AutoHotKey!Finally An Account (talk) 17:10, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

information Note: Finally An Account has been blocked. – PartTimeGnome (talk | contribs) 15:53, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Translating and enabling scripts Twinkle and Huggle on sr.wiki

Hello. I'm willing to contribute and translate vandalism fighting script Huggle and Twinkle on Serbian and enable them on the Serbian Wikipedia. I'm looking for additional information how to do so? Thanks. Alex discussion ★ 23:36, 29 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Alex. As for Twinkle, you might want to see this old thread on the topic. Twinkle would be difficult because it's very specific to the English Wikipedia's pages/practices. You are free to try and/or contact the developer(s). Killiondude (talk) 04:25, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

URL trouble

Hi, at Otjikoto Lake there is a (for me) non-functioning link to:

http://www.biodiversity.org.na%2Fjohn%2Fpdfs%2FIrish%25201991%2520-%2520Karst%2520water%2520conservation.pdf&ei=ECcWS5PSJpLH-Qbps5nWBg&usg=AFQjCNE2c7rDe6u1JoiO5wh90c_18Om7wQ

I have tried some simple things such as changing %2F to /, but no dice, and I don't really understand %2520. Is there any way to fix this? 86.160.87.81 (talk) 02:44, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The invalid url was added in 2009.[4] The editor Pgallert must have used percent-encoding, probably unintentionally via some software. I guess %2F should be / as you say, and %25 should be % (then %2520 becomes %20 which means space). Then the url would be http://www.biodiversity.org.na/john/pdfs/irish%201991%20-%20karst%20water%20conservation.pdf. It still doesn't work but maybe it did in 2009. I haven't found the pdf archived or at another site. PrimeHunter (talk) 03:06, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
OK, well, thanks for trying. 86.160.87.81 (talk) 04:08, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I have replaced the dead link.[5] PrimeHunter (talk) 14:14, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Looking at the "&ei=" in the original URL, it was copied from a Google cache URL. Google cache URLs use double-% encoding too. – PartTimeGnome (talk | contribs) 16:17, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

remove the 2,000 kilobyte upload limit

Change it to a 10,000 kilobyte limit. Storage is quite cheap.Finally An Account (talk) 17:28, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

But downloading a 10MB page is still somewhat problematic for a lot of people. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 19:33, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Do we have a 2MB maximum for the size of uploaded files? Remember that with very few exceptions, we shouldn't upload anything here except nonfree images, and they absolutely must be as small as possible. Nyttend (talk) 20:00, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia:Image use policy#Uploaded image size implies that the limit is 100 megabytes. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:04, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I perform temporary uploads of images about to appear on the Main page on a fairly regular basis. As a result, I can confirm that the limit is in excess of 16.6MB. --Allen3 talk 21:01, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
We say "upload" about images and other files. I guess you refer to mw:Manual:$wgMaxArticleSize which is a page size limit. It's set to 2000 kB for Wikimedia wikis in http://noc.wikimedia.org/conf/highlight.php?file=InitialiseSettings.php. Pages above 2 MB are slow to load and render, and would rarely be useful. 2 MB seems fine to me. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:52, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The size limit for the Mediawiki software is 100MB . If its video and its free and its bigger than 100MB you can upload it to YouTube and then link to it. This has been done quite about with NARA, DOD and government provided video. 108.45.104.69 (talk) 01:13, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
What do you want to write that is so large? Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia, not a web host. I can think of no good reason for an encyclopaedia to have 10 megabyte pages. (As TheDJ mentioned, such large pages can be problematic for some readers to download.) If an article is growing large, split it into smaller sub-topics. – PartTimeGnome (talk | contribs) 15:28, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

information Note: Finally An Account has been blocked. – PartTimeGnome (talk | contribs) 15:52, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Can't log in

I'm going round in circles. I have my username and password (and my history of edits is on Wikipedia still). I put in my username and password, and it says that I have the wrong password. I've tried it capitalized and not capitalized, and it keeps saying it's the wrong password. Apparently I made an account without giving my e-mail address, so when I tried to get my password by e-mail, it says it doesn't have an e-mail address for that account.

What do I do when my account is THERE, but Wikipedia keeps rejecting my password and I can't reset it via e-mail?

I tried making a new account using my same username, and it said that user already existed. Do i just have to make a whole new account? I don't want my IP address on the Internet.

You can see it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:UserLogin&action=submitlogin&type=login&returnto=Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.8.108.25 (talk) 17:47, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That doesn't show us any messages that were generated on the fly for you when you tried to log in. It's just a generic screen, which for me shows "Log in From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search You are already logged in as Redrose64. Use the form below to log in as another user. Username Password Forgot your password? Keep me logged in (for up to 30 days) Log in Help with logging in Create another account". If I log out, and follow the link again, the message changes, but there's no way that I can get it to always show me any messages that were sent to you. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:11, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Deleting revisions problem

I have been ask to look at deleting 2 revisions of William Roache article by IP 81.155.34.51 (talk · contribs) but find that it thinks that these 2 revisions are already deleted. Yet I can still see both revisions even when logged out. Any thoughts as to what the problem is? Keith D (talk) 19:05, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Can you take a screenshot of where it's saying the revisions are already deleted, or if it's just text, copy and paste it? Jackmcbarn (talk) 19:07, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
This is what it is saying -

Action failed From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia View logs for this page | Page history | Deleted history Jump to: navigation, search

Revision visibility could not be updated:

Warning: The item dated 10:10, 30 November 2013 already had the requested visibility settings.
Warning: The item dated 10:09, 30 November 2013 already had the requested visibility settings.


Selected revisions of William Roache:

(diff) 10:10, 30 November 2013 81.155.34.51
(diff) 10:09, 30 November 2013 81.155.34.51

Deleted revisions and events will still appear in the page history and logs, but parts of their content will be inaccessible to the public. Other administrators on Wikipedia will still be able to access the hidden content and can undelete it again through this same interface, unless additional restrictions are set.

Please confirm that you intend to do this, that you understand the consequences, and that you are doing this in accordance with the policy.

Keith D (talk) 19:44, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Weird. I can confirm what you've said here. Just remember that RevDel isn't the only tool we have; complete deletion is still possible, and nothing's wrong with using it when RevDel isn't working. I've removed the two edits, along with the reversion; it would look too weird if I left an edit saying "Reverted edits by..." when the edits in question don't appear to exist. Nyttend (talk) 19:57, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the full deletion of revisions in question. Keith D (talk) 20:17, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Would you happen to have your language set to en-gb or the like rather than plain en? Gerrit change 93163 accidentally switched the labels of the checkbox columns when using RevDel on multiple revisions, the column for hiding data was set to be labeled "Visible" and the column for showing the data was set to be labeled "Hidden". Most admins here on enwiki wouldn't notice this, though, because we've locally overridden those messages to say "Set" and "Unset" (with the row messages clarified along the lines of "Delete revision text"). But en-gb and other language codes probably haven't been overridden in this manner.
Note those default messages are already fixed in MediaWiki with Gerrit change 95537, which will be deployed here with 1.23wmf5 (see mw:MediaWiki 1.23/Roadmap for the schedule). Anomie⚔ 21:45, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yes set to British English. Keith D (talk) 22:20, 30 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Cannot log in: "Incorrect password" even after resetting it

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T59791

Hey, I have not been able to log in to my account "NahidSultan" for a while. Even though I enter the correct password, the page always returns "Incorrect password". I tried resetting the password through email several times, but right after I logged in with the email code and set my new password it returns to Special:UserLogin with the message "Incorrect password". I've opened a bug here --180.234.190.98 (talk) 08:22, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia articles as references

Can anyone help in creating a list of all pages that contain Wikipedia articles in ref tags? Most probably a list of all pages that contain <ref>[[Foo]]</ref> and <ref>https://en.wikipedia.org/w/Foo</ref>. Wikilinks are accepted in references as part of footnotes. My aim is to clean pages that use wikipedia articles as references. I think if I do it by myself I'll get a lot of false positives. -- Magioladitis (talk) 14:37, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I've posted a report at User:Magioladitis/wikiel that attempts to list what your after. - TB (talk) 23:32, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
TB Thanks! -- Magioladitis (talk) 00:04, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Displaying a part of the table

I recently removed an outdated portion of a sporting standings table, by the updated but full table. Given that there are 20 teams in a league, the table is displayed in either of two ways -

  • Display a portion of the table (Say only top 5 teams) in the relevant article, which looks better, but requires being updated at 20 locations
  • Display the entire list in every article, making it unecessarily long, but requiring update at a single location.

Considering these two alternatives, I wonder if there is any way to re-organise this current format sere is a way to transclude the full list to display only the relevant portions of a table, using some set parameters? (For example, if the parameters are 1 and 5, then only the top 5 clubs are shown)? I think a hack like that could be useful for usage in many more sporting articles.

In short, all I want is a possible way to display {{2013–14 Premier League table}} so that only a portion of the table is shown, based on how you call the template. Is it possible?

TheOriginalSoni (talk) 23:42, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks to TheOriginalSoni for inviting me to this discussion. I agree that the best solution would be a centrally updated template with the ability to only show certain sections of the table when the focus of the article is a specific team; after all, there is no point showing the teams at the bottom when the focus is on the top. I would love to know if this is possible, although I'm sure it would take such intricate coding that it may not be worth making such a template when it would need updating every few days (and therefore more chance of breaking the template). – PeeJay 02:39, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I made a test at {{2013–14 Premier League table/sandbox}} with code choosing which rows to display based on the already passed team parameter, so the season articles don't have to be updated when the team positions change. I had problems controlling pipes and newlines so the source isn't pretty. Here is how it looks with the parameter team=ALL:

Template:2013–14 Premier League table/sandbox

With team=ARS:

Template:2013–14 Premier League table/sandbox

With team=MNU:

Template:2013–14 Premier League table/sandbox

With team=CPA:

Template:2013–14 Premier League table/sandbox

You control which rows to display for each team by adding its 3-letter code to a switch statement for each of those rows. When team positions change, those codes have to be manually swapped around in the template. You can choose to display more than 3 rows by adding the team code to more rows. PrimeHunter (talk) 04:41, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • PrimeHunter, The formatting of this truncated table is exactly how I expected it to be.
I also created a subpage at {{2013–14 Premier League table/sandbox/1}} with the text "Template:2013–14 Premier League table/sandbox/1" which I intended to replace at the code's switch expressions. You can see I've replaced one instance of ARS in the code to see that it works.
This way the places do not have to be replace everywhere on the table, making it less likely to break the code, albeit more clumsy. Also, whenever teams change positions, the respective subpages would have to be altered to have the correct rankings.
While this code works, I was kindof hoping for a less hacky of a way. Is there any way to do that?
TheOriginalSoni (talk) 06:09, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
As one (of very few) editing this template so far, I must say I really like this idea of having this table. A reason for having it is to have something that is continuosly updated, which do not happen on all club articles. To make it only show parts would be fantastic, then it would be better for each of the articles. If/when this is done some visual things maybe can be done (yellow color of team unneccesary?) to make it look even better.
My only concern is that it can not be to complicated to update, since that makes a bigger risk for errors. Today a lot of IP edit league table and if we should use it even on the main PL article with team=ALL then there could possibly be a lot of correcting to do. The more articles it is used in, the more editors will try and edit it. But in total I am very positive and I have tried editing in the sandbox above (just show preview, never saved it) and to me it is not that hard updating it, but I could imagine other editors "forgetting" to update the parameters of which rows to be shown. QED237 (talk) 12:03, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
User:PrimeHunter, I love you. This is exactly what I was expecting. Now to sort out some minor user-friendliness issues and it'll be perfect! – PeeJay 12:08, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. 20 subtemplates like {{2013–14 Premier League table/sandbox/1}} for team positions would be impractical. I have changed {{2013–14 Premier League table/sandbox}} to get all 20 teams from {{2013–14 Premier League table/p}} by supplying a parameter for the position. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:04, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Looks good to go. Great work, PrimeHunter.
Could we use another less obstrusive colour, like #F5D44E to highlight? TheOriginalSoni (talk) 13:27, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Might I suggest writing this in Lua? By moving it to Lua you could just input the wins, draws, losses, goals for, and goals against for each team, and then the template could automatically calculate the matches played, the goal difference, and the points. It could also automatically update each team's position in the table, and you could also pass a parameter to limit the number of entries. All the complicated bits could be put in the module, and the template invocation would look something like this: 

{{#invoke:league table|premier
|limit = 5
|team1 = [[Arsenal F.C.|Arsenal]]
|team1_wins = 10
|team1_draws = 1
|team1_losses = 2
|team1_for = 27
|team1_against = 10
|team2 = [[Chelsea F.C.|Chelsea]]
|team2_wins = 8
|team2_draws = 3
|team2_losses = 2
|team2_for = 24
|team2_against = 11
...
}}

If there's any interest in this, I can try and code something up tomorrow. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 14:08, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Mr Stradivarius, that sounds great. I'd like to see how that would look. – PeeJay 14:40, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I don't edit league tables but it sounds great. You may need more parameters for a general module. Some leagues can give punishments where points are deducted from a team (they can even have a negative number of points). Automatic computation of positions would give complications with some tie rules like La Liga#Competition format. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:53, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

POTD request

Hi there, I have a request regarding WP:POTD. Is there a chance anyone could set up a system so that the POTD displayed is random out of a fixed set (only for a certain day, though), similar to what was done when middle ages was on the MP. Thing is, we have a 20-image set from Puck of Pook's Hill, which would be quite nice to run (at least part of it). I'm thinking for 30 December or 18 January. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:24, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

TheOriginalSoni (talk) 01:42, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Middle Ages was at TFA, not POTD. See Wikipedia:Today's featured article/September 12, 2013. ~HueSatLum 01:53, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • It appears that adding a simple {{Random subpage|page=Template:POTD/2013-12-30|start=1|end=20}} would be able to easily get a random image of the list, where the images would have to be located at Template:POTD/2013-12-30/1 to Template:POTD/2013-12-30/20. I expect the blurb to remain the same for all pictures.
TheOriginalSoni (talk) 02:14, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Hue: Right. Sorry for not making that explicit (if it had been POTD, we'd have something all set up).
@TheOriginalSoni, would this carry over onto the main page automatically? We'd have to have the protected versions as well, and the formatting there is a bit iffy... — Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:36, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Crisco 1492, I am not the expert for it, but assuming you use the random pages function, I expect you create the subpages which contain only the respective images to be rotated. And then use the code above as a substitute for the image (File:ImageName) wherever necessary in the required templates. I expect this to be working perfectly well in all but one scenarios.
  • For the sake of completion, the only place where I know the above scenario would break would be where the POTD images themselves are invoked using another Random subpage template. I do not expect such a usage of the template, but one can never tell.
You could use the Random module as detailed by Mr Stradivarius below too, but I personally do not prefer it because it is slightly messier to look as a code, and would not store all the 20 images in a definite location under the POTD namespace, which I think ought to be done in a multiple-image scenario like this.
TheOriginalSoni (talk) 05:33, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ah. I was under the impression it was a single blurb. It might require some more adjustments but I think it is possible to still get the job done, albeit with some extra hacking. Let me look into what can be used. TheOriginalSoni (talk) 05:53, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  • Crisco 1492, I have created a hack at User:TheOriginalSoni/sandbox2 where using {{Random subpage|page=Template:POTD/2013-12-30|start=1|end=20}} or {{Random subpage|page=Template:POTD/2013-12-30/blurb|start=1|end=20}} gets you the desired template that you'll use along with the subpage. Use the latter in place of blurbs and the former in place of pictures. To get the next chosen image and caption, you just purge the cache.
  • Mr. Stradivarius I am still not sure if your module will be able to do what's required. Will it be too hard to set up a quick sample case? If not, can you show how your code will function? TheOriginalSoni (talk) 06:27, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Of course it works - what do you think they pay me for? ;) On a more serious note, if you're dealing with random dates, you can use the date function of the module - see my sandbox for an updated example. — Mr. Stradivarius on tour ♪ talk ♪ 09:09, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Adding link to wiki articles in other languages: HOW? Information too hard to find

It used to be easy to add a link to an article on the same person/place etc. in another language. Now, it's not. Apparently you have to do something with Wiki Data which I have spent half an hour trying to understand in vain. I don't have time to look further now and therefore could not add the links.

The section on Wiki Markup is out of date and does not include the info on how to add these links in the new way. I'm still in the dark about how to do it. Help:Wiki_markup#Link_to_the_same_article_in_another_language_.28interlanguage_links.29

I don't understand the rationale for making it so much harder to do things on Wikipedia, especially things as basic as links to wikis in other languages. It feels as if Wikipedia is becoming harder and harder to edit for people like me who just want to be able to add an article or useful information without spending dozens of hours (finding and) learning markup. At the very least, when major changes to the editing process are made (Wiki Data), the changes should be clearly indicated in all the help articles at the same time.

HELP on this particular issue, or a link to somewhere it is explained clearly, would be much appreciated. Thanks! Evangeline (talk) 06:11, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

@Evangeline: You can just add the link as before, and a bot comes along and does it all for you. --Mdann52talk to me! 10:03, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) The Help:Wiki markup page is not intended to be comprehensive but general. Interlanguage links are primarily covered at H:ILL, which has a section on Wikidata - everything from H:ILL#Wikidata (inclusive) to H:ILL#Local links (exclusive). --Redrose64 (talk) 10:05, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, that helps! Evangeline (talk) 11:06, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a way to include a colon in an article name?

Yesterday I created an article about a controversial 1978 novel, entitled: "S: Portrait of a Spy". Articles that start with "S:" become interwiki links.

For now I entitled the article Portrait of a Spy (novel, 1978) -- but, if possible, I'd like to put it at the correct name. Geo Swan (talk) 15:52, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It's only possible to have a colon when the left of the colon is not an interwiki prefix. See Wikipedia:Naming conventions (technical restrictions)#Colons. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:17, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Leave the article where it is, but add {{Correct title|S: Portrait of a Spy|reason=:}} near the top. --Redrose64 (talk) 16:32, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Now located at S – Portrait of a Spy. — Edokter (talk) — 16:34, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
And I see that Erwin had already added {{Correct title}} before I suggested it. Thanks, Edokter! --Redrose64 (talk) 16:37, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"Wikipedia Error" ?

I have made several edits to various pages, all without incident. Now, over the past 2 days, every time I try to comment on this talk page, I get the following message screen popping up;

Wikimedia Foundation

Error

Our servers are currently experiencing a technical problem. This is probably temporary and should be fixed soon. Please try again in a few minutes.

If you report this error to the Wikimedia System Administrators, please include the details below.

Request: POST http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Shirt58&action=submit, from 208.80.154.136 via cp1055 frontend ([10.2.2.25]:80), Varnish XID 2620319949 Forwarded for: 24.212.213.146, 208.80.154.136

Error: 503, Service Unavailable at Mon, 02 Dec 2013 19:34:53 GMT

Initially, I had though that meant the edit was not saved (and I re-posted), but now it seems the edit is saved, immediately, but instead of showing you the page with the new content (and that little pop-up that says "Your edit was saved"), you instead get this message screen, and manually have to go to the page again.

Like I said, it only happens with the one account. Is this normal? - theWOLFchild 19:47, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I see that error on a recurring basis. It seems that certain pages, and pages containing certain templates, are more likely to have this guy show up. My SOP is to just hit the back button, where my edit loads up just like I saved it, then I go up to the article tab, and left click - open in a new tab, to see if the edit went through. Probably 3/4 of the time, it did, so I just shut down the edit window tab, and continue on like the article tab was just the normal post-save view. VanIsaacWS Vexcontribs 19:59, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
This often comes up on this page. See for example #Wikimedia error, site very slow, looks like when Internet first developed and some of the archive pages. Maybe I should put it into the FAQ. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:39, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
That page is quite large. Though wiki markup is fast to save, parsing it to create a HTML page can be slow for large and/or complex pages. If it takes too long to parse, you get this error. I've left a message for Shirt58 drawing this discussion to their attention and requesting that they archive the page. – PartTimeGnome (talk | contribs) 22:41, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

No Pending Changes protection recorded on List of Nelvana programs

Tracked in Phabricator
Task T59912

List of Nelvana programs is PC protected but https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=&user=&page=List+of+Nelvana+programs&year=&month=-1&tagfilter=&hide_patrol_log=1&hide_review_log=1&hide_thanks_log=1 doesn't show that it was protected at any point. What am I misunderstanding? Josh Parris 20:41, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

If a page is moved, the logs are not moved too - they stay on the old name. It's a pain in the ass. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:52, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
That makes discovering the reason for protection... challenging... and thus doing appropriate review equally challenging. Josh Parris 21:06, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Luckily, changes to the PC status are dual-recorded - see the page history. --Redrose64 (talk) 21:33, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
This particular trick needs writing down somewhere. Josh Parris 01:46, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Pending changes logs should behave the way the regular protection logs do when a page is moved. I've filed this as bug 57912. Graham87 08:05, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

How can I see deleted edits?

Obviously I can't since I am not an administrator. So the question is how to get someone to do it?

I posted on a talk page asking for a source, and I have reason to believe said talk page, along with its article, has been deleted. It had very detailed unsourced information about the TV character Rumplestiltskin. This spelling does not match the usual one but I wanted to find the response on that talk page which gave a reference for that spelling.— Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 21:56, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think that the page was Talk:Rumplestiltskin (Once Upon a Time) and it had three edits, all to a section titled "How do you spell it?". I don't see why the final text of the page shouldn't be disclosed:
Why is it "le" only on the show and not anywhere else? Where is the proof?— Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 19:43, 11 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Here it is, screenshot from beginning of episode "Manhattan" . Michu1945 (talk) 20:29, 11 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I see. I should have been paying more attention. Thanks.— Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 21:00, 11 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Is that the right one? --Redrose64 (talk) 22:19, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
That's it. Thanks.— Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 22:27, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

/UserProfileIntro subpages

Example of my profile page en.m.wikipedia.org

As you can see at this "everything" search of WP ([6]) certain new users are creating their new user pages in a subpage of their user at /UserProfileIntro. I've randomly checked a few of the pages and they were all created with the following summary: (Updating user profile introduction) (Tag: Mobile edit). November 22, 2013 is the oldest user account where this has happened, and there have been scattered instances since. I did a little Google searching and found the phrase UserProfileIntro in a script that was being developed for the mobile users. I submitted a bug report (now closed/deleted) at Bugzilla and was left a stern message that said "Closing this bug - this feature works as intended. If you have problems with it, please open a more specific bug." I'm fairly certain that new users shouldn't be directed to create their user page in a subdirectory, and that whatever is causing this is not right.

Am I nuts, or is this really a problem. If it is, can someone notify the proper people about it. I failed in that area. Thanks. --| Uncle Milty | talk | 02:30, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently the mobile people are "reinventing" user pages just for mobile. How strange. Anomie⚔ 03:20, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yep, that looks odd. Most of the User pages are non-existent, but there is content at the User:XXXX/UserProfileIntro page that would typically appear on the User page. Is there someone reading this page who can explain how/why this behavior counts as "works as intended"? Alternatively, is there someone here who has enough pull on Bugzilla to open this as a bug and not have it closed summarily? It doesn't seem consistent with how things have typically been done around here, but maybe there is some grand plan of which we have not been made aware. – Jonesey95 (talk) 05:46, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Jdlrobson, do you know about this? — This, that and the other (talk) 10:54, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I was wondering how long it would take people to notice this :D I don't see a problem with this, we can do whatever we want with it at any time. Let them play, measure and find the best solutions. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 11:02, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I added an example for those are wondering where this is used. —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 12:28, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I thought it was gone, but it was filtered out of my search. ID # 57748. --| Uncle Milty | talk | 13:47, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I noticed bugzilla:57931 while reading this thread. Yay for bugs! Legoktm (talk) 16:38, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hidden comment constantly being removed

I have placed a hidden comment onto an article using the <!-- and --> tags to deter deleterious edits to the page but it seems that whenever an IP editor edits the page the comment disappears. Is this a consequence of visual editor and is there an alternative I can use so the text remains in the section of the article where it has been placed?—Ryulong (琉竜) 03:03, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Considering that VE isn't available to IPs at this time and the edits aren't tagged with the VE tag, it seems unlikely that VE has anything to do with it. More likely you've run into an IP editor who is deleting your comment. Anomie⚔ 03:24, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Print template, print file

I can not print a (content) template from template space. How come, given that similar file and category pages I can print? -DePiep (talk) 11:32, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Why cant I view all pages in Safari Reader

Hi, I'm a consumer more then a user and I have the following concern:

What human does, should be human conform. Wikipedia treats information and should be in this way brain conform.

The best way to read without any distractions - excluded these of the place your working at – is to use Safari Reader. This is not publicity, but just my personal opinion upon what is good informatics function: It let me do what I want to do: To read without distraction.

This is thus not possible with any other reader. If I make browser window smaller, I get bothered by the windows surface; if I apply full screen mode on browser, the text its spread on my 27 inch screen an becomes heavily to read.

Nevertheless, I experience tranquilly readying by using Safari Reader, not all Wikipedia pages can be read by this browser function.

I know, that this problem is discussed outside of Wikipedia, but my opinion is, that this excellent experience of reading is the best and should be possible on any Wikipedia site, hence it should be discussed on Wikipedia. Please let me know, if you have any good ideas, to access Reader the content of all Wikipedia sites, or you have maybe any suggestions of how to create Wikipedia’s proper function which give access to its content to a more brain conform way.

If not – I will be forced to buy a „higher-than-wide“-screen (3:1) and to install it in place of my 27 inch screen. Thanks for any comments on that.

Muntscher (talk) 14:33, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Cats

A few minutes ago, I opened up my /links page that has the admin dashboard and other stuff on it. In between AIV and UAA was a load of cats. On reloading the page, they'd disappeared. I can't find any sign in the History of my page, the admin dashboard page or AIV of anyone reverting cats. Has anyone else had this happen? And, no, I'm not drunk and haven't been smoking funny stuff. Peridon (talk) 17:14, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Found it in the History at AIV now. Don't know why I didn't before. Peridon (talk) 17:21, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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