I'd also like to point out that it's not vandalism - their management are guilty of corruption - I lost my job with them due to a liar and a thief called Scott Milne
Within the project, discussions included the featured article review of the London congestion charge, edits to London Buses route 24, date of publication of a 1938 LU stock emergency equipment diagram, Metropolitan Railway being TFA to mark the 150th anniversary of the tube and bus routes in station articles.
Within other related projects, relevant discussions included unidentified station photo locations in London, linking to train station, bus routes in station articles, template font problems, railway route boxes, primary road destinations in infoboxes and River Lee move discussions.
Requests
If you want to post a request for help with an article, finding a photograph or seeking reference material, contact the editor
Within the project, discussions included the Metropolitan Railway being TFA to mark the 150th anniversary of the tube, bus routes in station articles, comparing American pseudo facts with the London Underground, renaming Uxbridge Road station and identifying stations in photographs.
Within other related projects, relevant discussions included colours of railway lines, age of metro systems, coordinates in infoboxes, {{S-line}}, watersports in London, aqueducts, lists of bus, distance measurement of British roads, rail usage figures, the West Coast Main Line, identification and rail freight .
Requests
If you want to post a request for help with an article, finding a photograph or seeking reference material, contact the editor
Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding a content dispute in which you may have been involved. Content disputes can hold up article development, therefore we are requesting your participation to help find a resolution. The thread is "Merseyrail, Tyne and Wear Metro".
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Customer satisfaction high as Emirates Air Line carries two million passengers
Barclays Cycle Hire southwest extension construction works begin
Wide-aisle gates at 180 Tube stations means more independent and quicker journeys
DLR carries record-breaking one hundred million passengers in one year
Transport for London team up with policing partners to donate unclaimed bikes to local charity
Below inflation taxi fare increase to take effect - reminder
March
TfL issues OJEU for ticketing and fare collection services beyond 2015
Majority of Taxi and Private Hire licence fees reduced or frozen
Oyster customer services moves to a local rate number
Three new lifts transform accessibility at Crystal Palace station
Transport for London proposes a new Sunday service for bus route B12
Transport for London urges teenagers to 'Stop Think! Live' on the road
Her Majesty The Queen, HRH Duke of Edinburgh and HRH Duchess of Cambridge visit Baker Street Underground station as LU celebrates 150 years of serving London
New lifts for Edgware Road (Bakerloo line) station
TfL launches competition to find operator to run Crossrail services
Transport for London launches competition to create accessibility apps
'Crossrail for the bike' in Mayor's £913m cycling plan
Emirates Air Line to close for one week for planned maintenance
Third public consultation results for Northern line extension confirms strong support for Tube link
TfL opens the door to innovative ideas
Thames Clippers to operate enhanced River Bus services between Putney and Blackfriars
Tube customer satisfaction hits record high as strong reliability performance maintained
Within the project, discussions included the Metropolitan Railway being TFA to mark the 150th anniversary of the tube, bus routes in station articles, comparing American pseudo facts with the London Underground, renaming Uxbridge Road station and identifying stations in photographs.
Within other related projects, relevant discussions included a dispute over railway systems, various discussions on railway lines, station categories, historical station usage data, identifying train locations, train timetables, images, colours, a reliable source in road articles, road junction templates, signs, boundaries, referencing Wikipedia, deletions of lists of bus routes and a proposed official bus route guide.
Requests
If you want to post a request for help with an article, finding a photograph or seeking reference material, contact the editor
Thanks for showing me the cite news template but how do you know about the author as it's never shown on the news page/link. D Eaketts (talk) 07:54, 2 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Some news items have no author. In that case just leave the "author" parameter blank. Many others do give an author or authors (such as this one, where the author is Rory Carroll), in which case it is preferable, though not absolutely essential, to include the name(s) in the reference. Sometimes there is no author but a wire agency is credited, such as Reuters or Associated Press, and in that case it is desirable, though not absolutely essential, to include the name of the agency in the "agency" parameter. However, none of this is as important as including the name of the publication, the title of the article and the date of publication. Many thanks -- Alarics (talk) 08:12, 2 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Within the project, discussions included railway colours, problems with the DLR rolling stock article, the relaunch of the TfL website, night buses in London, Frank Pick on TFA, interchanges, getting LT-related listed building articles ready for the Wiki Loves Monuments competition in September, selective vehicle detection and the S Stock appearing on the District Line.
Within other related projects, relevant discussions included tram stops, various station usage issues, railway image identification, DLR door controls, journey times, multilingual signs at stations, overlong infoboxes, identifying London Underground stock, the longest journey non-stop, vandalism, images of London, missing coordinates, renaming London Millennium Funicular, postcodes, census data, compass points, lists of bus routes, rail tet colours, railway accidents and punctuality.
Requests
If you want to post a request for help with an article, finding a photograph or seeking reference material, contact the editor
Here is the 50th edition. I can only apologise this is so late as a lot of work came up but it is still no excuse so again I will apologise. Inside includes everything since the last edition as usual. Enjoy. Simply south......fighting ovens for just 7 years23:02, 6 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Source
This is what the source (e.g. citation number 7) says.
"To make the punishment harder, some schools make the student just sit there and wait for it to be over. Other schools will let the student do homework, or make them tidy up an area. Some students are forced to change their school uniform to their gym uniform and over and over again. Students are also caned at times."69.248.98.23 (talk) 15:23, 24 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Within the project, discussions included getting LT-related listed building articles ready for the Wiki Loves Monuments competition in September, selective vehicle detection, the S Stock appearing on the District Line and platform layouts.
Within other related projects, relevant discussions included blocking an IP, platform layouts, next and previous stations, fixing a station usage template, identifying a railway station, the deletion of Template:Rail start, station naming and the relevance of RDTs.
Requests
If you want to post a request for help with an article, finding a photograph or seeking reference material, contact the editor
I will also happily accept requests for the gallery (if not, images will be selected from archives elsewhere). Again I will also remind people that if they ever want to try doing a future month's issue, feel free to with your own style etc or even just stick to the current format. Don't hesitate to contact me for the resources of things to include in this newsletter. Otherwise, enjoy! Simply south......cooking letters for just 7 years01:05, 7 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Return of someone who shares some of your interests
Morning Alarics. It would appear that an indefinitely blocked editor who shares some of your interests, made a day-long return to Wikipedia as an unregistered user in order to update his userpage and also make slightly more than a dozen edits on topics related to one of those interests. If you have a little spare time, you may wish to look over some of his contributions from that day and revert anything problematic that's not already been fixed.
I don't particularly expect that IP to be used for block evasion in this way again, but if it is and it presents ongoing problems, one could mention it to the blocking administrator or to any of the several other administrators who declined the various unblock requests. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 19:53, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Describing a company as "they" rather than "it" is alright in colloquial speech, but not in the formal written language that we use in an encyclopaedia. Even more unacceptable is calling it "it" in one paragraph and "they" in the next, within the same article. -- Alarics (talk) 11:34, 22 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Intersting. I've found the word "they" in band articles, and when I've changed this to "it", the change has sometimes been reverted. Do you think there is an exception for bands, which are, in effect, organizations too ? Acabashi (talk) 09:28, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Hi. I've seen your edit summary (1 December) for this article: "Also: "publisher" should be the name of the company or organisation, not its web domain" - this is interesting - I've been tending to add .org.uk to Genuki in articles, particularly in Ext links. Can you point me to the guideline that mentions not adding the web domain - looks like I might have a huge job adjusting this in articles :) Acabashi (talk) 09:41, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Hello, see Template:Cite web under "publisher", and all the examples given there. Also, in WP:CIT#Examples, likewise the first example given under "cite web" shows "publisher= Goddard Institute for Space Studies", not "publisher= data.giss.nasa.gov", and similarly with all the other examples I can find, including for "cite press release" (further down the same page). (In the case of "cite news", where "publisher" is usually redundant, it is "work" or "newspaper" that needs to be the actual name and not the web domain.) I think the reader needs to know who the actual publisher or publication is. Readers who do want to know the web domain for some reason can always hover over the URL and see it.
Note however that there are some exceptions where the web domain actually is what the website calls itself, for example: http://www.rail.co.uk/ .
Unfortunately there is a bot (Reflinks, I think) which goes around filling out incomplete references automatically and uses the web domain information to populate the "publisher" field. I'm sure this is the only reason why this unhelpful phenomenon has become so common. -- Alarics (talk) 20:20, 1 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Within the project, discussions included station naming guidelines, line proposals and extensions using RDTs and the project's annual review.
Within other related projects, relevant discussions included station naming, advice on doing a featured list, wording of the First Great Western franchise, start date and time, relevance of RDTs, the editathlon in York, direction of train travel, conversion of units, timetables, station naming, station layouts and travel information in stations.
Requests
If you want to post a request for help with an article, finding a photograph or seeking reference material, contact the editor
Please feel free to suggest any changes or add any requests such as images for the gallery. If you also want to have a try for the new year's edition or any future editions, please do not hesitate to ask. Simply south......cooking letters for just 7 years21:39, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
December 2013
Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Bitcoin may have broken the syntax by modifying 2 "[]"s. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.
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bitcoin-transactions-20131206-2yugy.html |title= China bans banks from bitcoin transactions |work=[[The Sydney Morning Herald}}</ref> A side-effect of this announcement was a subsidiary of the
Hi Alarics, just thought it amusing that you require a citation for this - I am the source, as it was done to me for not being able to remember the house masters and colours of all the houses! Still smarts! I understand this is one of those weird WP things - they don't allow personal reminiscences, and yet they don't require anonymous contributors to identify themselves! Go figure! Not worth contesting this - we'll all just follow the rules, illogical as they are! Regards, Jpaulm (talk) 01:49, 21 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Jpaulm, it's because the source has to be independently verifiable by other editors and readers, which personal reminiscences clearly are not. -- Alarics (talk) 08:00, 21 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Hello Alarics. Thanks for your message a week ago, on 19 December 2013, regarding news sources for this. Apologies for not replying sooner, but I got sidetracked by a few other things in the run-up to Christmas. When "Ghmyrtle" removed content from the Daily Express alleging that there had been police intimidation, I accepted and understood the reason why the content was removed. I have since read more about reliable sources and understand that tabloid newspapers such as the Daily Express and the Daily Mail are not ideal news sources, particularly for contentious content and controversial claims.
Another editor "Codeusirae" put the content back again, which has since been removed. If I make any further edits to the article on the Elm Guest House child abuse scandal, I will not include any further content from newspapers such as the Daily Express. I will include content from sources such as The Guardian, The Independent and The Daily Telegraph.
I understand that as Wikipedians we have to go by what reliable sources state. On Wikipedia we obviously don't give our own personal opinions, but with regard to the allegations at Elm Guest House, I have a neutral and balanced point of view at the present time until there are further investigations. I simply don't know at this stage whether in the future it is going to be regarded as a more serious political scandal than the Profumo Affair. I don't know whether there was previously a cover-up of allegations by authorities or whether the claims of politicians abusing children are unsubstantiated allegations. We will have to wait for further developments and investigations.
However, it was disturbing to watch a Channel 4 news report in September this year alleging that former Liberal MP Cyril Smith had abused children for decades and that opportunities to stop the abuse had been missed. The Crown Prosecution Service have admitted that Smith should have been charged with crimes during his lifetime. He is reported to have been a regular visitor to Elm Guest House, but we don't know at this stage whether he may have abused children there.
For anybody reading this who may be interested, the 8 minute Channel 4 news report is currently available to watch at the link below:
Thanks for your kind comment on my talk page. That's why I no longer edit - I was always getting blocked. But looking at the article I realized that the clever way of getting the agenda across is to be more subtle; remove any facts or links that put across his defence side or his "achievements" like that awful Sunday Times quote and links to his own book showing cuttings from papers and add opinions from the police and others condemning him. But I still won't edit (Dave just got blocked again) I'll leave it to you and the others. Sorry for drawing attention to your work. Erase this after reading.Pedohater (talk) 08:18, 28 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It's fairly obvious from this and from the post on the article talk page that this user is in fact opposing the recent expansion on tlhe conviction, rather than applauding it. I strongly suspect editing on behalf of the subject: WP:COIDeCausa (talk) 08:46, 28 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
DeCausa, I am increasingly confused by all this -- who is "this user" whom you accuse of COI? If you mean "Pedohater", I have quite the opposite impression, though his/her comment above makes no sense to me. If you mean me, my rather small involvement in all this has been on behalf of a neutral and objective presentation of the facts, including the fact that some respectable commentators thought King was treated overharshly. -- Alarics (talk) 09:48, 28 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I should have been clearer: I mean "Pedohater". IMHO, Pedohate's 2nd post on the article talk page and the above post attempts to attack the addition of material about the conviction by appearing to be in favour of it while sowing oblique hints of criticism. E.g: In the article post he complimented it for being "like a Daily Mail article". In the above post, he purports to be happy that "facts" (i.e. not "lies") supporting King's side have been removed. This is not the way someone claiming the POV he is claiming would write. I think the original postings thanking sevejral editors for joining "the crusade" was intended to make those editors think that their edits weren't NPOV. In your case, I think he's just made a mistake: as you say, you haven't made any additions to the conviction material. Btw, I've added back text about King's supporters, which I hope deals with your concern on that. Finally, I think Pedohater is linked to the subject and has a COI, inter alia because I detect (reading between the lines) real annoyance that, in his opinion, text about King's recent boks and films has been removed. I really don't think anyone but the subject would care that much. Hope th at clarifies: I certainly wasn't saying anything about you. DeCausa (talk) 13:42, 28 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Copy of my points on the Talk Page. I see there have been other sock puppets at the article!
I had no idea it would be such a minefield trying to edit an article. I'd not tried before and only fiddled with details although even then my edits were reverted. I won't bother again. To answer the editor who considers me a sock puppet, lovely words, just let me repeat why I made some of the small changes to the lead (thank heavens I didn't waste time doing more). I thought his first hit sold in several countries but will bow to your research that it only sold in two countries though even there I can't quite see why it needs saying. I assume all other wiki entries on other singers specify similar. I find "string" of releases and "novelty" records odd words to use in a factual encyclopedia but bow to superior literacy. I assume the 4 hits "in the 70s" avoid his productions or those which don't feature his vocals although, again, I can't work out why the 70s are specifically singled out unless it's to remove his 60s and 80s productions and cant see why it deserves mention anyway. Basic research shows he discovered Genesis and produced them independently long before placing them with Decca or even leaving university. Why he is described as "working for" companies he didn't work for and those companies that released his other independent releases are ignored I cannot understand. It's not even negative to him. It's just wrong. I would have thought any editor with a Book of Hit Singles could have verified that, or is that not online? I bow to superior editing experience that 10cc were far more significant than his Rocky Horror Show or other acts. I believed Wikipedia was meant to state facts and not opinions on quality or significance. He never presented Top of the Pops as far as I remember but was on every month doing a US chart rundown but I certainly won't be checking my old music magazines to find proof. And I quite understand that his Old Bailey convictions are a far better story than his acquittal and as such deserve mention in the lead if wikipedia is meant to be a tabloid site. As for further details lower down the article, I wont bother reading or checking as my changes - even if sources detailed and provided - would be bulk reverted by editors wanting a more accurate article. I'm sorry, I just dont have time to bother scanning magazine pages into e mail. I apologize if my edits are similar to anyone else's but I'm nobody's sock puppet and wouldnt dream of accusing any other editor of being one either although that appears to be the default position. As I leave I would suggest any editor genuinely wanting an accurate article gets his autobiography and finds confirmation or proof of lying for any significant facts, as I would suggest they should do for any person warranting an article on Wikipedia, if they really want to contribute properly. Finally might I politely comment that certain editors might think about developing good manners and not bulk erasing changes, made in good faith, or chucking accusations of vandalism about? People in glass houses...LudoVicar (talk) 07:14, 18 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
LudoVicar: I am not clear why you have pasted all the above on to my talk page. My involvement with the JK article has been minor -- e.g. I found a reliable source for his graduation year, and I reinstated mention of his TV and radio roles in the opening sentence as it seemed to me an important part of his career. I think I also reverted some changes made by another editor with an obvious POV against JK, in order to restore a semblance of neutrality. I have not been concerned with most of the details you are complaining about. -- Alarics (talk) 08:06, 18 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry I just copied and pasted it to editors who seemed involved. I didn't know who did what, just that all my corrections were reverted by editors and felt they should take another look at why I'd made them as it was implied I was doing it on behalf of others.LudoVicar (talk) 08:24, 18 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
It is good to see someone else preferring the "|author= " field and skipping the first and last name fields. The Harvard style is so archaic. I also prefer "|education= " to the use of alma mater. I hate when Latin is used to make something sound more important. Up until recently we had to have a link for the alma mater field in infoboxes so people could figure out what it meant. I always prefer simplicity. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 01:38, 15 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Your recent editing history at Emma Kenny shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.
You might have looked into this case in more detail before leaving an automated message which in this case is entirely inappropriate. It is not I who am involved edit warring. I have explained to the other editor (in my edit summaries AND on his own talk page) what he needed to do to meet Wikipedia' rules for biographies of living persons, but he just keeps reverting back to his unsustainable position. It's not just me. Several other editors have attempted to put the article right. -- Alarics (talk) 23:11, 17 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I'm with Alarics here. Not only did Alarics make two reverts - not three (or even the four which would trigger 3RR) - but both were valid reverts within WP:NOT3RR because of the BLP and sourcing issues. --Redrose64 (talk) 23:19, 17 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Just a transubsatiation here of your kind welcomes! :)
Welcome here, both Mabuska and Alarics. No 1....Britain is not England, or Scotland, or for that happens the six counties of Ulster that remained under the aegis of the crown. It is a concept, or rather more dully the bloody island itself. No 2...nice, putting a bit of patronising window dressing on here too,...No 3, if I push, I'll bloody push. That's what bloody history is. Greetings! Brendandh (talk) 01:23, 22 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Its location is one of the few commercial gallery spaces designed from the ground-up to exhibit artwork. The Toronto location (since 1976) is located directly across the street from the Art Gallery of Ontario on Dundas Street West, in the heart of downtown Toronto. In 2002 the Foster/White Gallery which is located in Seattle's Pioneer Square was purchased by the Huang Family.
An article that you have been involved in editing, LBC, has been proposed for a merge with another article. If you are interested in the merge discussion, please participate by going here, and adding your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Khairul Islam 00:39, 3 June 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Khairul Islam (talk • contribs)
RevDeletion or supression requests
Thanks for your comment at BLP/N. Please note however that it's normally a bad idea to make such requests at public noticeboards as it just draws more attention to the matter. You should either follow the process outlined at Wikipedia:Requests for oversight if you believe Wikipedia:Oversight is justified (it probably is in a case like this) or follow the process at Wikipedia:REVDEL#How to request Revision Deletion if you don't think oversight/supression is justified but revdeletion is. You can do both if requesting oversight because it's possible an administrator will get to it first. It looks like you have an email address assigned to your account, so you should have no problems emailing oversighters or admins although you will have to reveal your email address by doing so. In any case, to try and avoid drawing more attention I've removed your request without an edit summary, and made a request for oversight via the email form. Nil Einne (talk) 14:15, 12 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you! (unless you are being satirical). Apparently I did it wrong (see previous section) but it was not at all obvious what one is supposed to do in such circumstances. -- Alarics (talk) 21:38, 12 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Most people do it wrong, thus it's the thought that counts and I was not being satirical or even sarcastic. The award title is a play on words, since an enthusiast of Rio originally taught me the importance of caring about how we write about living persons, but sadly he cannot be with us today even though the newspapers tell us that "Rio" is very important at present.
The other very slight humour is that I have a vague theory that you are not the sort of person that goes about waving little England flags from your car (or anywhere else) during the "World Cup season", and possibly you even find the whole thing mildly bizarre or even mildly annoying, but that is just guesswork.
Hi. Thanks for stopping by on my talkpage and explaining which one is which, although user Sock already shared a bit of info, to get me accustomed with deadurl thing. So, that's out of the way. Now, in regards to BBC and The Guardian thing, I was a bit confused. For one, we as Wikipedians sometimes use publisher=The Guardian while the work can be The Observer. Same thing goes with The Independent which besides the original have The Independent on Sunday which is its subsidiary. BBC though have 3 subsidiaries, which includes: BBC Sport, BBC News, and BBC News Online, all of which have separate articles here. So, I hope you will understand my reasoning behind using publisher=BBC with works being one of the above.--Mishae (talk) 19:24, 30 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
(talk page stalker)@Mishae:The Guardian is the name of the newspaper, and not its publisher. It is published by Guardian News and Media Limited, as is The Observer. The Independent and The Independent on Sunday are both published by Independent Print Ltd. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:08, 30 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Well, according to this explanation publishers are in fact O.K. or I am not getting it again. Like, in my opinion work is used if there is a second source, like publisher is The Guardian while work is The Observer. Correct me if I am wrong again, but we need to cite every work. Like if The Observer have contributed to the article in the press, we need to include it, don't you all think that?--Mishae (talk) 19:44, 1 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The |newspaper= parameter is an alias for |work= - I tend to prefer the specific to the general, so for newspapers, I normally use |newspaper=. Now, regarding the documentation that you linked, it says
publisher: Name of publisher; may be wikilinked if relevant. The publisher is the company that publishes the work being cited. Do not use the publisher parameter for the name of a work (e.g., a book, encyclopedia, newspaper, magazine, journal, website). Not normally used for periodicals. Corporate designations such as "Ltd", "Inc" or "GmbH" are not usually included. Omit where the publisher's name is substantially the same as the name of the work (for example, The New York Times Co. publishes The New York Times newspaper, so there is no reason to name the publisher).
In the case of The Observer, the company that publishes the work being cited is Guardian News and Media Limited - not The Guardian. This publication could be cited as |newspaper=The Observer|publisher=Guardian News and Media. However, for The Guardian - where the publisher's name is substantially the same as the name of the work - we would use |newspaper=The Guardian alone. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:52, 1 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
In practice, "publisher" is not a helpful parameter in the case of mainstream newspapers or magazines, and it should be omitted. For example, what The Observer needs to disambiguate it is not the name of its publisher (which can change over time; the paper has existed since 1791, but only since 1993 has it been published by Guardian News and Media), but its city of publication, the traditional means of uniquely identifying a newspaper (to avoid confusion with papers called Observer in Uganda, Sri Lanka, Jamaica, Queensland, etc.). So it should be "newspaper=The Observer location=London" and leave the "publisher" parameter blank, or preferably delete it altogether. -- Alarics (talk) 21:42, 1 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
In 99% of cases it serves no purpose at all. Very occasionally it might be useful, e.g. when citing a rare or obscure or ancient publication that is long since defunct. -- Alarics (talk) 06:10, 2 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Adding this to the see also section is relevant as spanking can be construed as child abuse if marks are left or if performed by a foster parent, in some jurisdictions. So, unless there is not any legitimate reason to not include the see also, I will add it back.Williamsville (talk) 18:43, 1 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Caning causes physical injury. The fact that it is illegal in all jurisdictions suggests that a link to the article in the see also section is called for so that the reader can determine whether the spanking is merely spanking or has crossed the line...caning is spanking??? seems very odd to me as it is illegal in the US and Canada. Child abuse vs punishment means: If the punishment harms the child (causes pain, leaves marks, etc., it could be considered excessive (NY State Foster parent manual). And, in all jurisdictions using a closed fist, knocking the child down, or using an object is considered abuse. Also: Corporal punishment is prohibited in all early childhood care and in day care for older children in 36 states (http://www.endcorporalpunishment.org/pages/progress/reports/usa.html). And finally, spanking is prohibited as a form of sentencing in the penal system and also in alternate care settings. Therefore adding the link the child abuse in the see also section is warranted.Williamsville (talk) 23:14, 3 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Caning in Singapore
Thank you for assisting me on editing the article, Alarics. I noticed that it relies too heavily on World Corporal Punishment Research (Corpun) in some parts and Corpun is not always up-to-date and accurate. In your opinion, is there anything we can do about this? 116.86.165.147 (talk) 20:18, 24 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Corpun happens to be the only place on the web that brings all this stuff together. In what respect is it not accurate? It cites its own sources carefully. But anyway I will look for some additional sources when I have more time. -- Alarics (talk) 20:23, 24 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The problem is that some of the sources Corpun uses are already outdated. For example, the legislation (which section of which Act/Regulations) it cites are no longer up-to-date. This is why I chose to cite directly from Singapore legislation (available on statutes.agc.gov.sg) instead of quoting Corpun. Besides, some parts of the Corpun article are based on insider information obtained some years ago (the page itself says 'last revised September 2012') and some news articles it cites are not very recent (some dating back to the 1970s and 1980s). 119.56.124.244 (talk) 03:41, 25 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Bad Grammar
"In the summer of 1982" is US usage. British English has "in summer 1982". No it does not! That sounds like a translation from German to me. Quote your sources for this bad grammar. --Kiltpin (talk) 21:37, 8 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know where you got the idea that it is bad grammar. If you search Google you will find the phrase widely used by respectable sources. Why use four words where two will do?
Examples among many millions:
"the number of incidents of malpractice in the GCSE and A level in summer 2014". UK government.
"London domain name to launch in summer 2014". BBC News.
"Your guide to things to do in Warwickshire in summer 2014". Coventry Telegraph.
"Honey Bees Return in Summer 2014". University of Sussex.
"These extra services operated in Summer 2014". Dales bus services.
"The Royal Ballet tours to Moscow, Taipei and Shanghai in Summer 2014". Royal Opera House.
"A message for students expecting to graduate in Summer 2014". Sheffield University.
"the number of employers that plan to freeze pay has risen modestly to 10% in summer 2014". Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development.
"We are currently accepting applications to start in summer 2014". Durham University.
"Camouflage and gingham will be the prints du jour for Carven girls in summer 2014". Daily Telegraph.
"India's tour of England in summer 2014". English Cricket Board.
"Manchester United had one of their busiest transfer windows in recent memory in summer 2014". Manchester Evening News.
"They'll play 13 dates in spring 2012". BBC Newsbeat.
"In autumn 2003, 7.42 million people in employment in the UK were trade union members". Office for National Statistics.
"360 table eggs from Finnish organic laying hens were collected in autumn 2003". Oxford Journals.
"The provisional UK medical school intake figure in autumn 2003 was 7,559". Review Body on Doctors' and Dentists' Remuneration.
"The survey was carried out across England and Scotland in Autumn 2003". Scottish Government.
"Dematerialisation of UK Money Market Instruments (MMIs) is due to take effect in Autumn 2003". Bank of England.
"In winter 2010 gritting became a political issue". The Guardian.
"its banking sector spectacularly imploded in winter 2010". The Guardian.
"11 of the UK's quirkiest events in summer 2014". Daily Mail.
"In spring 2011, US energy group ExxonMobil made a horizontal test drill into shale rock". The Guardian.
It's not a "rule", it's a question of what is common usage by respectable British writers. See the examples I have cited above from reliable sources including The Guardian, the government, the BBC, the Bank of England, and various universities. -- Alarics (talk) 11:15, 10 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Well it must be a rule or not. If not, then either is acceptable. You haven't quoted any "respectable British writers" either, just organisations - who may or may not be making a mistake. For example one can find quotes by many of the same organisations stating the opposite, e.g.
"The capital will gets its own domain name, .london, in the summer of 2014." BBC News
"As the summer of 2014 draws to a close, along comes the very classy film adaptation of Gillian Flynn's brilliantly constructed psychological...". Daily Mail
"ECB has announced the full international programme for the summer of 2015 which will see England host tours by New Zealand and Australia." English Cricket Board
"Controlled Escalation: Himmler's Men in the Summer of 1941 and the Holocaust..." Oxford Journals
"That was up almost 19.5 per cent on the Olympic summer of 2012..." London Evening Standard
Etc... Are your "reliable sources" correct or incorrect (or reliable) then? Do they prefer to use either depending upon the context perhaps? Stephenjh (talk) 12:03, 10 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Either is acceptable, although I think the shorter form may be more typically BrE and I think the longer form is more typically AmE. The main point is not that one can of course find counter-examples on both sides, but whether or not the shorter form is wrong. And the answer is no. If you think "in summer 1982" is wrong, you need to produce some evidence. -- Alarics (talk) 15:24, 10 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, but the onus is on you the editor to support your edit to the article with evidence. With no real support, your edit and justifications sound like original research. I don't think it's an American / British thing, I believe it's purely grammatical and there are occasions where the longer form is more correct. Stephenjh (talk) 15:51, 10 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The concept of original research applies to the factual content of articles, not to questions of style. How would you define these alleged "occasions when the longer form is more correct"? Can you produce anything to back that up? Unless you do, we must conclude that either form is equally acceptable, as the examples I have quoted overwhelmingly suggest. In that case, the shorter form is preferable because more concise. I really don't understand why you are making such a big deal out of this small stylistic point. -- Alarics (talk) 22:21, 10 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Referencing
Hello Alarics. Thank you for the work that you have done on a number of articles to improve the consistency of references and to explain to people how references are formatted correctly. I have been surprised recently when editing the article on Gary Lineker that each time I format the references properly to include the city of publication for a newspaper, the locations have been swiftly removed. I have tried to explain a number of times that as per the guidelines at WP:REFB, it states that it is always best to include the city of publication if not already part of the title of the newspaper.
There is clearly more than one newspaper in the world called The Guardian and more than one newspaper called the Daily Telegraph. Wikipedia is not a British encyclopaedia. It is viewed throughout the world in different continents and the location of publication should therefore be included.
The idea behind the removal of locations from the Lineker article seems to be that "London" is unnecessary and people can click on the links of the newspaper names to see which city they publish from. This idea is not in keeping with the guidelines which state that the city of publication should always be included.
I have edited numerous articles over the past 18 months to include the city of publication in references and the Lineker article is certainly the first one that I have encountered where the locations have been removed each time after I have edited. If it could be possible for you to take a look at the article for Gary Lineker I would be grateful, as unfortunately my explanations each time are not heeded. Regards, Kind Tennis Fan (talk) 20:22, 19 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you Alarics. I have been somewhat bemused as to why on this article the locations have always been swiftly removed after I have put them in. As mentioned, the Gary Lineker article is the first one I have encountered where this has happened. Kind Tennis Fan (talk) 16:19, 1 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
London talk page
Hello Alarics,
I was wondering if you would like to contribute anything to the discussion currently taking place on the London talk page? I noticed you implicitly accepted my 'pre-eminent' edit back in January (by hyphenating 'preeminent') but now, the edit is unfortunately embroiled in controversy. How would you feel about a compromise i.e. a revert to the original 'prominence'? I apologize for involving you in this, but I feel London deserves a word that properly recognizes its pre-eminent or 'prominent' role in the world. Here's to hoping you agree (in the history, you can also see the current sources I provided to justify my word choice). NorthernFactoid (talk) 03:25, 27 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
First, this was my first visit to CP article so I didn't know the history of adding Child abuse to the See Also's. I also added two See Also's (Corporal punishment in the home and School corporal punishment) to Child abuse for symmetry.
Second, I agree with you, sort of. CA is different from CP (although the first sentence definitions in WP could lead you to think otherwise: "the physical...maltreatment...of a child" vs. "the use of physical force for the purpose of correction [of children]"). That is why I almost put a slug next to the reverted Child abuse, somewhat like this:
Physical child abuse, for when corporal punishment of children becomes abusive or illegal
In my opinion, See Also entries aren't strictly for hypernyms and hyponyms but for related terms as well. I leave it up to you whether you want to add something like the above, slugged See Also to CP. Thanks. --RoyGoldsmith (talk) 16:06, 9 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Chevenix-Trench
I think it is disingenuous to remove this man from the Fettes article. I notice you have edited a number of articles on corporal punishment and child abuse, by the way, I have not looked at your edits, but I am sure you are aware that the cover-up of child abuse has been rampant in the past few decades in the UK.
Anyway, the upshot is that Fettes employed someone who got kicked out of Eton, without asking too many questions. This kind of behaviour makes one wonder what the hell else these places got up to, which they never talk about. (As bad as some of the churches!) The man had evidently been damaged by the war, in fact, I seem to recall he'd been a Japanese POW.
I would also point you to the fact that a recently retired Fettes teacher wrote a flattering biography of C-T, which plays down his sadism. However, it would seem that he continued with his beatings while at Fettes.
Covering this kind of thing up does no one any good, except the abusers. Yes, I am well aware that caning was normal practice, but Chevenix Trench seemed to have enjoyed it a little too much.-MacRùsgail (talk) 15:54, 18 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
p.s. Also, what's with the removal of the fact that said school produces a disproportionate number of judges? It does, both in relation to the number of its alumni, and the size of the legal profession.
(1) It is not for Wikipedia to start making judgements about any alleged "cover-up of child abuse" beyond what is reported in reliable sources as established fact. I have not seen any evidence that this was so at Fettes. If there is any, by all means cite it. Certainly C-T used corporal punishment at Fettes, but any suggestion that he went beyond what was normal at the time would need to be supported by proper references. I removed the bit about him in the Fettes article because it did not refer specifically to Fettes and there was no similar attempt to characterise any other Fettes heads. He is already mentioned in the list of former headmasters, so he cannot be said to have been removed from the article. None of the others in the list is singled out for this kind of treatment. There is of course a separate article about C-T which goes into detail about the various claims that have been made about him. Nobody is covering anything up. Mark Peel's biography of C-T, which you describe as "flattering", is in some ways quite "warts and all" and points out that C-T's main problem was actually alcoholism. At all events, I think Peel's subjective view is just as valid as Paul Foot's subjective view, or probably more so (Foot had personal experience of C-T at Shrewsbury many years earlier but none of Fettes).
(2) I don't doubt that Fettes has produced a lot of judges. I just thought the words "inordinate" and "disproportionate" were inappropriate and non-encyclopaedic. They sound like opinions rather than facts. What's wrong with the neutral "many"? -- Alarics (talk) 22:13, 18 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Why would you want to sweep this under the carpet? I'm sick of reading puff pieces for various private schools, which give you nothing but information about their doctored exam pass rates.
CT is completely relevant to the Fettes article. He wouldn't have ended up there if he hadn't have been kicked out of Eton. And then, it appears, he was kicked out of Fettes for the same thing. He was a damaged invididual, and the school covered up this behaviour in the same way numerous other institutions have.
I've read Mark Peel's biography of CT. It's a whitewash. Actually, that's far too generous, it's a kind of hagiography. Peel had access to sources who were around at the time, but obviously the pay-off for that was that he avoided discussing the abuse. He writes it off by saying that the man was nice to his own children.
The reason Fettes produces a lot of judges is because a lot of judges' children go there. Not because of academic achievements. Given the small size of the judiciary and the fact that the vast majority of people in Scotland have not attended private schools, I do not think it is POV to point this out.-MacRùsgail (talk) 15:43, 19 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It's not about sweeping anything under the carpet, it's about what is fact and what is merely anecdote or supposition, and what is appropriate in a Wikipedia article. We have to be fair and balanced.
Mark Peel's book (which I have in front of me) does not dispute that C-T was somewhat damaged. So were many people in the war. If you actually read the book, Peel does not play down C-T's enthusiasm for corporal punishment. But he was far from alone in that, and it was perfectly legal at the time. You cannot go chucking around words like "abuse" and "sadism" without solid evidence, which we do not have. Nor should we judge the past by the standards of today. Where is the evidence for your assertion that he was kicked out of Fettes and the real reason covered up? He was seriously ill by 1978. He died before his term as headmaster had officialy come to an end. This is all covered in the WP article about him, to which the Fettes article of course links. I think it is WP:UNDUE to bung all this into the "History" section of the Fettes article as well, unless we are also going to put in equivalent slabs of material about other Fettes heads, which currently the Fettes article does not do.
If you want to include detailed information about the number of judges the school produces you will need to cite a reliable source. Your personal opinion is not sufficient. -- Alarics (talk) 17:04, 19 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
London Paddington station
London Paddington station, an article that you or your project may be interested in, has been nominated for a community good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article.
I'm not so sure who was/were the reviewer for the earlier GA reviews but do you know who is it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vincent60030 (talk • contribs) 10:05, 21 April 2015
Further to your edit on my content, I was wondering why it is necessary to have passenger walkways to evacuate passengers if the train breaks down if the trains are driverless - surely this happens already when there are drivers on the train [1]— Preceding unsigned comment added by Absolutelypuremilk (talk • contribs) 07:35, 13 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
On the existing tubes, evacuation takes place from the front or back end of the train via the driver's cab and then along the tracks. (Building such a tube nowadays would be forbidden by health and safety.) It requires staff to organise and to lead and instruct the passengers. It is difficult and messy and frightening enough as it is. Imagine how much more panic-inducing if there were no staff at all on the train in an emergency situation with a seven-car train crammed with many hundreds of passengers. See this article by Christian Wolmar and this one also by Christian Wolmar and this article on London Reconnections and this one. -- Alarics (talk) 08:54, 13 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
That is in effect what the "driver" already is on the Victoria and Jubilee lines. He/she does not actually drive the train, a computer does. No reduction in staff numbers would be achieved. Unions could still bring service to a halt by calling a strike. To have no staff on the trains at all, as in Lille and Turin and Kuala Lumpur and other cities, you need to be building a new system from scratch, with passenger walkways throughout and platform-edge doors at all stations. You cannot do it with London's ancient deep-level tubes. -- Alarics (talk) 10:52, 13 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
But this would still mean that the possibility of a tube driver being traumatised because of a suicide/someone falling in front of the train was removed. It would also presumably remove the need for extra training for the drivers (compared to the "train captains"). I also don't understand why firstly this applies on sub-surface lines and secondly why it wouldn't be possible to have the passengers remain on the train until someone could be found to "rescue them" Absolutelypuremilk (talk) 16:44, 13 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Redrose64:Alarics edited some of my earlier contribution (which spoke about use of driverless trains in other countries) as Alarics said that on deep-tube lines there are not emergency evacuation tunnels for passengers and so the experience of other countries is not relevant (which I agree with) but this doesn't apply to subsurface lines where these are not necessary - I was replying to his edit rather than suggesting a new way of doing things Absolutelypuremilk (talk) 16:35, 14 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Alarics: Would you be happy with e.g. Driverless operation has already been demonstrated safely on several railways around the world and on the DLR. However these lines have tunnels for the safe evacuation of passengers, whereas the deep Tube lines were built without these and therefore a "train captain" would be needed to evacuate passengers in case of an emergency.
No, unless you want to quote some reliable source that is saying all these things. It's not for Wikipedia to speculate in that way or to appear to be arguing the case. You are straying into WP:OR. -- Alarics (talk) 21:29, 17 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Alarics:Yes, I meant with references: Driverless operation has already been demonstrated safely on several railways around the world and on the DLR. However these lines have tunnels for the safe evacuation of passengers, whereas the deep Tube lines were built without these and therefore a "train captain" would be needed to evacuate passengers in case of an emergency.[1][2][3]— Preceding unsigned comment added by Absolutelypuremilk (talk • contribs) 10:23, 18 August 2015
The DLR trains are not driverless. There is a driver (who might actually have a different job title); they ride in one of the doorways. At each doorway there is a small control panel with a small number of buttons, warning lights and a key lock. To prevent misuse, these controls are only active when the driver's key is in the lock and turned to the appropriate position. To start the train, the driver presses a button to close all the doors except the one where he or she is standing; then presses another button which closes that door and engages the automatic controller. When the next station is reached and the train stops, the doors open automatically and the train then does nothing until the driver again presses a "close doors" button. At some stations, such as Canary Wharf, the driver doesn't use the controls by a door, but instead uses a full set of controls at the very front of the train, these are normally hidden under a lockable cover.
Riding the DLR is best done from the front seat of the front carriage. If you sit in the front left-hand seat, and the driver needs to use the main control panel, you might get asked to move to a different seat. Start at Bank DLR station, go along the platform to the eastern end so that you can secure that front seat, wait for a train bound for Lewisham, then ride it. In the two tunnels, you will observe the continuous walkway against one side, something that is absent from other Underground lines. --Redrose64 (talk) 21:25, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I think we have a very different definition of what a driver does - I would say that someone who simply closes the doors is a train guard rather than a driver. Redrose64 would you be happy with the above suggestion or could you propose an alternative?Absolutelypuremilk (talk) 21:35, 18 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
You are missing the point. A mainline guard is in charge of door-operation, but does not engage the power; the DLR train captain does'. Which is also the responsibility of a mainline driver. FortunaImperatrix Mundi18:06, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I fail to see the difference here. Surely the automated system decides whether to drive or not once the doors are closed depending on if it senses that the way in front is clear, which the train driver on a current tube train does not do. In either case, could you suggest a revision to the content I have put above to clarify what you mean? Absolutelypuremilk (talk) 19:06, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The 'computer' drives the train whilst it is in motion- but is a slave device: whilst the captain's key is in the door control panel, it is immobilized. This is to ensure it cannot move with the doors open. Obviously. FortunaImperatrix Mundi19:19, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Surely a mainline driver also could not leave until the doors have closed? I fail to see how the 'train captain' operating the doors makes them a driver in any meaningful sense Absolutelypuremilk (talk) 20:17, 20 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
So to summarise: Mainline guard: In charge of opening/closing doors, Train captain: In charge of opening/closing doors. Mainline driver: Drives once doors are closed, Automated driving system: Drives once doors are closed Absolutelypuremilk (talk) 08:32, 21 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
You said that train captains drive the train at certain stations, presumably this is what you mean - I have not actually been on the DLR but I have always seen it referred to as a driverless metro so I am trying to understand what you mean. e.g. http://www.railway-technology.com/features/featuredriverless-train-technology/ says this:
"The next step from semi-automatic train operation, which automates some aspects of train operation but still requires a driver to be in the cab, is driverless train operation. This technology, in operation on the likes of London's DLR, involves the automatic handling of all aspects of train operation, with a trained human operator on board the train to handle customer service, ticket checking and to take control in the event of an emergency." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Absolutelypuremilk (talk • contribs) 15:43, 21 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, just to advise that your revert on the above may be incorrect - the name Simon Henderson is listed on the school's website as the principal. Regards Denisarona (talk) 09:35, 5 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
During the time you deleted it I was still working on London to Bristol and London to Penzance, replacing the London to Brighton part, so maybe next time you shouldn't be in such a rush to delete things and actually wait a few hours or sent a talk message to the user in question. I presume you have no idea about the routes on the GWR so that means im going to have to spend another 4 hours sorting that out. Thank you very much — Preceding unsigned comment added by Devonexpressbus (talk • contribs) 20:39, 4 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Once again I find you fiddling around with my edits on wiki, Im getting pretty fucked off with you to be honest. You have no actual positive influence on here you just read whatever is on google and add what you think, instead of actual facts. Considering that this is actually relevant information that might prove useful to some people, if not now then in the future I would strongly suggest you keep that long nose out of it!
Devonexpressbus (talk) 20:40, 7 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]