Jump to content

Wikipedia talk:Noticeboard for India-related topics

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Decan.reporter (talk | contribs) at 18:54, 26 February 2018 (→"Prince of Goa"). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

WikiProject iconIndia Project‑class
WikiProject iconThis page is within the scope of WikiProject India, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of India-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page.IndiaWikipedia:WikiProject IndiaTemplate:WikiProject IndiaIndia articles
ProjectThis page does not require a rating on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.

Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/WikiProject used

Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/WikiProject used

This page is a notice board for things particularly relevant to Wikipedians working on articles on India.
Click here to add a new section
Article alerts for WikiProject India

Did you know

Articles for deletion

(71 more...)

Proposed deletions

(14 more...)

Categories for discussion

Redirects for discussion

Miscellany for deletion

Featured article candidates

Featured list candidates

Good article nominees

(7 more...)

Requests for comments

Peer reviews

Requested moves

(3 more...)

Articles to be merged

(45 more...)

Articles to be split

(14 more...)

Articles for creation

(30 more...)

This table is updated daily by a bot
Shortcuts
Wikipedia Meetups edit
Upcoming
none
Recent
Outside India
Past meetups

Proposal for policy change on Indian languages/scripts in lead sentences

I know that the wiki policy for Indic scripts is generally prohibition in lead sentences & infoboxes, and I'm sorry this opens up more tensions [[1]] [[2]]. But I think there should be a change in policy. It's disappointing to never see native scripts in India-related articles but always see native scripts elsewhere, even in places where they are no longer widely used and the scripts in questions have much more worse support than Indic scripts. I realize there are arguments both for and against the usage of native scripts, but it feels like India is being held to a separate standard. I only wish for policy to be consistent and for India to be treated the same as every other place in the world, even if that means that all non-Latin scripts are banned in all cases.

I'll come right out and say that I don't have a solution for the problem as a whole, for articles on people and items that can have connections to many regions and languages. However, for location-related articles, I propose that we display the scripts/languages that is official in the state/union territory relevant.

So the Bengaluru page would have only Kannada, and no other Indian language, and the Telangana page would have Telugu and Urdu. Arunachal Pradesh would have no special language because English is the sole official language in the state, despite the popularity of Hindi as a lingua franca. India itself would have the language explicitly named as Hindi and in Devanagari script, because Hindi in Devanagari script is defined as one of its two official languages as per the Constitution. This is to provide a objective basis on which to decide which languages to include. We can bicker about which languages are connected to whatever content, but you can't argue whether or not a language is official or not. It either is or it isn't. (To avoid using too many languages, we would not include ["additional official languages"] and stick to the primary official languages).

For the vast majority of states, there is only one official non-English language. Mizoram, Telangana, and TripuraCite error: There are <ref> tags on this page without content in them (see the help page). have 2 such official languages. Mizoram and Tripura would probably not pose any problem, because of the unlikeliness of translations into Mizo and Kokborok being added, at least for the moment - these languages do not even have their own wikipedia editions, although Mizo has a [language test]. The same goes for Manipuri/Meithei, the official language of Manipur.

There can of course be special cases, where a location is particularly significant for or is populated with a certain linguistic group, but this would be the rule and everything else would be an exception.

This is consistent with what appears to be wiki policy elsewhere - Afghanistan shows only the two official languages, Pashto and Dari, and not Uzbek or Turkmen, despite them being significant languages in the country; Indonesia has only the official Indonesian name, despite the unofficial Javanese actually having more native speakers in the country; Ethiopia has only the Amharic name because it is the working language for the government despite Oromo having more native speakers; etc.).

Again, I very much wish to avoid the kind of edit wars and arguments that have been seen in the past, but I also want India to be treated on the same basis as the rest of the world.

If this isn't the best place to post this, I'd greatly appreciate it if someone could point me in the right direction. I'm really only a casual editor, despite what you might think from this post.Last edited by: (talk) 00:04, 30 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

No. This has been discussed very recently. - Sitush (talk) 00:11, 30 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The kinds of situations that led to the adoption of the ban on native scripts barely arise (if at all) in the context of populated places or administrative units. This specific subset of topics was broached in the last RfC (where those commenting against them did so on the basis of simply not finding them useful), but it wasn't really discussed at any length. You should probably start a new RfC to add an exception to the outright ban, but it's worth bearing in mind that this is an area where many regular editors have strong opinions and where it's particularly difficult to have a reasoned discussion. – Uanfala (talk) 00:10, 2 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Nonsense. - Sitush (talk) 09:18, 2 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Concur with Sitush - populated places were probably where the majority of the problems arose. The consensus at the last RFC, which was only closed in May 2017, was very strong and clear. We do not need to revisit this so soon. - Arjayay (talk) 11:17, 2 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. No change in policy required. Editors were flooding articles with native scripts, even resulting in edit/revert wars. English Wikipedia should use only English (Latin script), for other native languages and scripts, we have individual Wikis.
Anish Viswa 11:46, 2 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

In response to the first post here, I've tried before to say why I think India is being held to a separate standard, but it is difficult to be diplomatic about it. I've previously alluded to " Macaulay's children". I'm going to be more blunt about it now and say that the use of Indian languages makes many editors who concentrate on India uncomfortable in some way and they are only too glad to have found a way to forget about it. It may be useful to read Macaulayism and this article. It would be good to have a wider discussion, though probably not here, about how this departure from Wikipedia's wider values affects the value and the integrity of the English content that is affected by it, and how it affects the content and status of the other wikipedia's in the other languages of India. Imc (talk) 20:15, 2 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

  • Wikipedia should use the English script only. In that case, all other scripts should be removed as well. Why only indic scripts? I am aware of the problems it caused. I had to create few "infobox templates" to avoid the edit warring that was taking place. I think only devnagari script should be allowed, and not others like tamil, telugu, punjabi. —usernamekiran(talk) 21:52, 2 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Westerners tend to romanticize India too much for that to be true of them, and it's the southern Indian states, where there is the most variety of Indic languages and scripts, that favor the continuation of English as an official language, to ward off the dominance of Hindi. Macaulay shouldn't be too quickly blamed for the predicament where a knowledge of English is required to thrive economically, as it was already the case in his time that people preferred English instruction, according to his "Minute", and it was his intent that the elite learning English would enable borrowings into vernacular tongues that would make the latter vehicles for technical education, as English had been enabled by borrowings from Latin and ancient Greek. The principal for addition of Indic scripts should be that of verifiability, which is what is almost always missing, in my experience, and which I think the present policy may already allow as an exception. As I understand it, there's nothing now stopping editors from adding well documented etymology sections that include Indic scripts, even if they're not allowed in the lead or infobox. If India is treated differently in this regard, it may well be due to volume. There may be one or two other countries with equal linguistic diversity, but not with anywhere near equal numbers of English Wikipedia editors. Dhtwiki (talk) 07:19, 12 February 2018 (UTC) (edited 21:24, 13 February 2018 (UTC))[reply]

Marathi help?

I'm trying to verify that the major source for Draft:Vasantrao Ghatge – the recently published book वसंतवैभव - वसंतराव घाटगे जीवन आणि वारसा – actually exists. Apparently, the only thing we've got is an announcement in a local newspaper about the book's publication:

  • "Book Release Ceremony of at Kolhapur published". Lokmat. 4 September 2017.

Could someone double-check that there is such an announcement on the linked page of this newspaper? Thanks! – Uanfala (talk) 19:02, 10 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

And whether it is reliable! There is a lot of rubbish published and promoted in newspapers, which get these press releases etc as free copy. - Sitush (talk) 19:31, 10 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
To be honest, that article is never going to get out of draftspace unless it bins all of its citations related to the memorial trust. - Sitush (talk) 19:32, 10 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Pinging AshLin to check the Marathi source, and as well as its reliability. Regards, Krishna Chaitanya Velaga (talk • mail) 12:53, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Infoelections.com

This website has been used as a source in quite a few articles related to Indian politics. Further research shows that its a consultancy service offering to do door-to-door surveys, political campaign and social media management for candidates. I have requested blacklisting at MediaWiki talk:Spam-blacklist but they have requested that this should be discussed first. --Skr15081997 (talk) 11:21, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

No need for it. Election data etc is published via the ECI -Sitush (talk) 11:40, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Elections.in is another such website. --Skr15081997 (talk) 11:56, 15 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Skr15081997:-Blacklisting the url is an extreme measure when links to the website are inserted by a spammer as click-bait. Most of the URLs seem to be a case of genuine (AGF) citation rather than balant self promotion of the website.(Same goes for the other website).That being said I am not encouraging their usage as they are not reliable and it looks as if they mirror data from other reliable websites( and thus may not be upto date)  — FR™ 10:48, 16 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

RfC on use of "crore"

Relevant RfC going on at Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Dates_and_numbers#RfC_on_use_of_"crore". Languorrises (talk) 22:51, 17 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Sam Manekshaw FAC

The article about Sam Manekshaw, India's first field marshal, is at featured article candidacy. Please put comments at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Sam Manekshaw/archive1. Regards, Krishna Chaitanya Velaga (talk • mail) 12:50, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

RfC on Talk:Roti

Talk:Roti#RfC about the origin of the roti. — MapSGV (talk) 02:49, 20 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Current Event - Unreliable information

Hello, the series of articles including Mahamastakabhisheka, Gommateshwara statue, Shravanabelagola, Bahubali, etc. relate to the current event being held in the state of Karnataka. It is gaining large traffic and needs a lot of work in sourcing copy-editing and tone-rationalisation. Please have a look if you are interested. Thanks -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo (talk · contribs · count) 13:33, 20 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

List of General Caste in Sikhism

Does List of General Caste in Sikhism have any potential for development? - Sitush (talk) 13:38, 20 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

There is some content in the Castes sub-section of the Sikh article that may be of use. Is 'General Caste' a well-defined term? I'm struggling to figure out the scope or purpose of the list. Regards, Cesdeva (talk) 16:37, 20 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

General caste = Forward caste. - Sitush (talk) 16:40, 20 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the clarification. I might be getting the wrong end of the stick but why don't we just widen the scope and make a 'Castes in Sikkhism' article instead that uses sections to separate Forward Class, OBC and Scheduled etc? Cesdeva (talk) 17:03, 20 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
This will just devolve into a list containing the superset of last names of Sikhs. Pointless. --regentspark (comment) 17:20, 20 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
My thoughts exactly, RP. That is actually how it has been on occasion. - Sitush (talk) 17:24, 20 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

International Mother Langage Day and Open Data Day Wikidata Edit-a-thon

Hello,
We are happy to inform you that a national level Wikidata editing campaign "IMLD-ODD 2018 Wikidata India Edit-a-thon" on content related to India is being organized from from 21 February 2018 to 3 March 2018. This edit-a-thon marks International Mother Language Day and Open Data Day.

Please learn more about this event: here.
Please consider participating in the event, by joining here.
You may get a list of suggested items to work on here.

Please let us know if you have question. -- Titodutta using MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 07:12, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Just to mention, the last link you list does not yet seem to be operational at the time I write this. MPS1992 (talk) 20:25, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@MPS1992: Here is the correct link: d:Wikidata:IMLD-ODD 2018 Wikidata India Edit-a-thon Item Lists. Regards, Krishna Chaitanya Velaga (talk • mail) 00:19, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Jyothi High School

Another editor created Jyothi High School for a high school in Ajekar, Karnataka, India. There are other schools with the same name in different cities. I cannot find a reference in a reliable source to establish that the school in Ajekar exists. Google Maps lists the school and indicates that it is located next to a convent, but does not include a telephone number or website. If you can add a reference to the article, or alternatively if you can prove that the school does not exist, please do so. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 04:04, 23 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Eastmain: There is a mention in this Daijiworld Media website. Also mentioned in the state government's website for the upcoming elections. Enough to confirm that the school exists. MT TrainDiscuss 04:57, 23 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Electronic Journal of Vedic Studies

Has anyone come across Electronic Journal of Vedic Studies before? Any thoughts regarding general reliability etc? - Sitush (talk) 14:29, 23 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Can I send invitations to new members for your project?

Hi, I have been working on recommending new members for your project for a while, and have sent some lists to Krishna_Chaitanya_Velaga who was willing to help invite those recommended editors. I wonder if you mind me sending invitations directly for WikiProject India on your behalf to save time and efforts of yours? Thank you! Bobo.03 (talk) 17:18, 25 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Inaccessible website

Someone has provided a link to a potential source in the discussion at Talk:Velir#Reverting_edit_by_Sitush but neither myself nor Utcursch can access the thing. Can anyone else? - Sitush (talk) 12:37, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I can access the source (chennai museum). Not sure what it is supposed to support but it supports the yadava claim but says nothing about Krishna or Sanskrit. --regentspark (comment) 13:40, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm..I can access the scraped text but can't view the book.Anyways, the book is just a translated copy of the inscriptions by varies Tamil dynasties, produced by Chennai Museum. ~ Winged BladesGodric 15:18, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Translation with commentary. For example: "Yaduvamsaketu-The tradition in PurananUru that the family was Yadava in origin derives-some support; from the title "Yaduvamsaketu" is ascribed to a book by someone called Shastri. Since this is a museum site, I think we can assume it is reliable (other things being equal). --regentspark (comment) 15:52, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah..Some minimal commentary is present. ~ Winged BladesGodric 16:10, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

"Prince of Goa"

Decan.reporter (talk · contribs) has been adding information about "RoquiSantan" (presumably politician Roque Santana Fernandes) to several articles, claiming that he was a "Prince of Goa" and a direct descendant of the Kadambas of Goa. The references cited by the user included mailing list messages, YouTube videos, personal sources from Dharwad University and other such sources. I've removed a lot of such poorly-sourced information from the articles Kadambas of Goa, Velim, Goa, Goa Opinion Poll, History of Goa, Margao, Goa liberation movement etc.

Recently, Decan.reporter has added the phrase "RoquiSantan, a Prince of Goa" to multiple articles[3][4][5][6], citing File:Gomantak Times, Friday March 16 2012.jpg as a source. This is a Gomantak Times article, which includes a sentence, "The next day Mr. Nehru send his close friend Mr.Gopal Handoo to Velim to meet this Prince of Goa."

However, the newspaper article doesn't contain any further detail about the "Prince of Goa" aspect. As far as I know, neither the Portuguese nor the Indian government recognized any "Prince of Goa". I can't find any reliable source that talk about Roque Santana being (or even claiming to be) a descendant of the Kadambas. Also, a couple of local newspaper reports call Santana "Father of Goan Democracy", but I'm unable to find this epithet in any scholarly books or national newspapers.

Does anyone have more information about the legitimacy of "Prince of Goa" and "Father of Goan Democracy" claims? utcursch | talk 18:26, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

_____________________________

refer to Velliapura 'Velliapura Viragal' the 12th century battle the 1345 killing of kadamba king his Queen moves to Veliapura she is cremated by her nephew jayasha the family has been living there for centuries his great grand father Leao ( meaning Lion in Portuguese) who owned a timber yard in Haliyal, which was confiscated by Madras Governor George Harris in 1845. his grand father Nic'leao was awarded a Portuguese title as village Sherif. RoquiSantna is the family member a prince, freedom fighter, father of Goan Democracy and later law maker His Son is Sanjaya deva named by Kadamba Coterie in 2007. he was NSUI Goa Student leader.104.207.219.62 (talk) 18:51, 26 February 2018 (UTC) Decan.reporter (talk) 18:52, 26 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Noticeboard_for_India-related_topics&oldid=827786499"