Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement: Difference between revisions
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With regards to warning for Zimmarod, he was posting repeatedly at WP:AE on AA related reports, so he was well aware of AA2 sanctions. For example, he posted at this thread: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive112#Nagorno-Karabakh_article], and most recently here: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive128#Sprutt] And community opinion about warnings was summarized on a similar AA case appeal by JamesBWatson: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive749#Result_of_the_appeal_by_Dehr] "If the person clearly knows about the restriction, then no further warning is needed". [[User:Grandmaster|<span style="font-family:Arial;color:#464646">'''''Grand'''''</span>]][[User talk:Grandmaster|<span style="font-family:Arial;color:#808080">'''''master'''''</span>]] 00:29, 6 February 2013 (UTC) |
With regards to warning for Zimmarod, he was posting repeatedly at WP:AE on AA related reports, so he was well aware of AA2 sanctions. For example, he posted at this thread: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive112#Nagorno-Karabakh_article], and most recently here: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive128#Sprutt] And community opinion about warnings was summarized on a similar AA case appeal by JamesBWatson: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive749#Result_of_the_appeal_by_Dehr] "If the person clearly knows about the restriction, then no further warning is needed". [[User:Grandmaster|<span style="font-family:Arial;color:#464646">'''''Grand'''''</span>]][[User talk:Grandmaster|<span style="font-family:Arial;color:#808080">'''''master'''''</span>]] 00:29, 6 February 2013 (UTC) |
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:Grandmaster clearly considers my AE request as "sock accounts ganging up on an established user, and then reporting him to get him restricted." Don't you think there are enough baseless accusations me being a sock; findings of multiple SPI reports are not of any value to Grandmaster. Please mind [[WP:AGF]] and [[WP:NPA]]. [[User:Zimmarod|Zimmarod]] ([[User talk:Zimmarod|talk]]) 01:53, 7 February 2013 (UTC) |
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::Chekuser cannot disprove sockpuppetry. According to [[WP:CHECK]]: ''CheckUser data is of limited use, and a negative finding [[Wikipedia:The duck test|never precludes]] obvious sock-puppetry''. In this case quacking could be heard miles away (and it is not just my opinion, at least one admin shares it, and Sandstein himself admits that there might be good reasons for suspicion). I think it would be really wrong sanctioning a well established user with thousands of useful contribs in favor of a bunch of accounts with a limited number of edits. This would just encourage sockpuppetry. What is the point in being a long established editor, if you can roll out a bunch of SPAs time after time, and have the article your way? If a few of those SPAs get banned, no big deal, one can always create new ones. And get an established user banned and sanctioned by reporting him. I think previous sanctions of Brandmeister should not be taken into consideration, and moreover, they should be repealed. It is clear as a day now that he was provoked by socks of the banned user, and the report on him was made by a sock account as well. Even if Brandmeister made some reverting back then, reverting socks is not sanctionable, and moreover, the rules hold that any contribs by banned users need to be reverted on spot regardless of their quality. Report by the sock account Vandorenfm was also not actionable, because a banned user is not allowed to edit the AE page in the first place. Also note that while in the recent case in question Brandmeister made 2 rvs, he was the only one who commented at talk, while neither of the 3 accounts reverting him did the same. Plus, [[User:517design]] did not even bother to leave an edit summary for his rv: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Shusha&diff=536470436&oldid=536402262] Yet 517design was placed on an editing restriction, which limits him to one revert per page per week, excepting obvious vandalism, and he is required to discuss any content reversions on the page's talk page: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3A517design&diff=340000928&oldid=339758632] So 517design clearly violated his restriction. [[User:Grandmaster|<span style="font-family:Arial;color:#464646">'''''Grand'''''</span>]][[User talk:Grandmaster|<span style="font-family:Arial;color:#808080">'''''master'''''</span>]] 09:27, 8 February 2013 (UTC) |
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=====Comment by The Devil's Advocate===== |
=====Comment by The Devil's Advocate===== |
Revision as of 09:27, 8 February 2013
For appeals: create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}
See also: Logged AE sanctions
Important information Please use this page only to:
For all other problems, including content disagreements or the enforcement of community-imposed sanctions, please use the other fora described in the dispute resolution process. To appeal Arbitration Committee decisions, please use the clarification and amendment noticeboard. Only autoconfirmed users may file enforcement requests here; requests filed by IPs or accounts less than four days old or with less than 10 edits will be removed. All users are welcome to comment on requests except where doing so would violate an active restriction (such as an extended-confirmed restriction). If you make an enforcement request or comment on a request, your own conduct may be examined as well, and you may be sanctioned for it. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. (Word Count Tool) Statements must be made in separate sections. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as personal attacks, or groundless or vexatious complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions. To make an enforcement request, click on the link above this box and supply all required information. Incomplete requests may be ignored. Requests reporting diffs older than one week may be declined as stale. To appeal a contentious topic restriction or other enforcement decision, please create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}.
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Arbitration enforcement action appeal by NestleNW911
The appeal is declined, but Fluffernutter is invited to review the comments in this thread regarding the ban duration. EdJohnston (talk) 17:53, 7 February 2013 (UTC) | |||
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. | |||
Statement by NestleNW911I'd like to appeal the decision to topic-ban me from editing Scientology-related articles. Admin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Fluffernutter has enacted the topic-ban. I have joined WikiProject Scientology, and have disclosed by identity as a Scientologist right from the start. I've dialogued with many admins regarding my proposed edits respectfully and have not been confronted about my editing activities up to this moment. I believe that it is important to have an alternative perspective when editing articles; this is essential to achieving NPOV. I've made many helpful contributions that address neutrality and improve the quality of Wikipedia articles. I'd like to emphasize that I am not editing to counter criticism but to achieve overall NPOV, which is the same reason that many editors have in contributing to Wikipedia. I've followed wiki policy to the letter and find no good reason that I should be topic-banned from editing Scientology-related articles. Please see interactions with admins below that point towards the helpfulness of my edits:
"But I agree with Resident Anthropologist that repeated accusations are not justified if they are based only on the fact that Nestle acts like a devoted promoter of Scientology and David Miscavige. I think Nestle may have some problems in differentiating between what is important from the point of view of an active Scientologist versus what is important for a Wikipedia article, but he seems willing to negotiate with other editors."
Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by NestleNW911 (talk • contribs) Statement by FluffernutterI think this attempt to speedy an article sort of sums up the problems NestleNW911 has in this topic area. He is (as he is happy to tell you himself) a Scientologist, and he believes that content critical of Scientology is disparaging to his religion. Given that, it's unsurprising that he would devote himself entirely to editing Scientology articles here on Wikipedia. Unfortunately, he seems unable to edit neutrally on the topic, and though I don't doubt he is operating in good faith, it's clear that he's operating in furtherance of a Scientologist agenda, whether purposefully or naively. Commentary like this, this, and this, in support of edits like this, this, and this, indicate that while he may be trying to be neutral, he isn't managing it, no matter how much guidance he's given by other editors about our policies and how his wishes often don't conform to them. He's far from the worst pro-Scientology editor we've ever dealt with on Wikipedia, but nevertheless his agenda-driven POV is not improving the encyclopedia.It is perhaps also worth nothing that in the links Nestle provides above, only one other than the SPI involves him interacting with an admin at all, and in that case the admin was agreeing with his opponent. In the SPI, admin commentary was mainly limited to CUs saying "possible" and clerks saying "no action taken" - not endorsements of NestleNW911's behavior, but simply acknowledgements that a socking case was unproven. Given that NestleNW911 edits Wikipedia solely on the topic of Scientology/Scientologists, and that his edits show a clear pro-Scientology agenda, I implemented Remedy 5.1 of Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Scientology yesterday. Discretionary Sanctions are active in this topic area for a reason. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 21:38, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
Statement by PriorymanIn response to the comments below from The Devil's Advocate (who has been posting very strange comments to Wikipediocracy about this issue), I would just point out that the principal sources for the article that NestleNW911 tried to speedily delete are (1) two Florida journalists, Thomas C. Tobin and Joe Childs, who won major awards in 2010 for their reporting on this topic (and their newspaper won a Pulitzer Prize) - see St Petersburg Times#Awards and nominations and (2) another Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist, Lawrence Wright of The New Yorker. Those are impeccable sources by any description. The editor who rejected NestleNW911's speedy deletion request stated that "It seems to be sufficiently sourced from secondary sources necessary for GNG and is clearly not an "attack" page. Whether or not there are POV issues is a legitimate issue that should be reviewed. At a glance, it seems okay to me, but I didn't evaluate it closely for NPOV, just N." [1] I've encouraged NestleNW911 to discuss any issues they have with the article on its talk page [2], though this has been rather superseded by the topic ban. Any issues with the article, however, are quite separate from the question of whether NestleNW911 is a "single-purpose account with an agenda" (as per WP:ARBSCI#Single purpose accounts), which is the issue that brought about the topic ban. Prioryman (talk) 23:51, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
Statement by (involved editor 2)Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by NestleNW911Statement by The Devil's AdvocateThis sanction appears to have been applied because of Nestle nominating this article for deletion as an attack page. While I am familiar with concerns about Prioryman's editing in this topic area, I did not seriously investigate this question until just now and have to agree with WP:ATTACK argument. Nowhere does there appear to be a meaningful effort to balance the article, with it focusing mostly on extremely negative claims about Scientology and its current leader in particular. Of the things I noted: "It became, as the Tampa Bay Times put it in a January 2013 article" - This statement introduces a quote in the lede that makes factual assertions suggesting extremely serious misconduct and abuse. "After a few managed to escape The Hole and Scientology" - This right there is stated in the editorial voice and not prefaced with anything indicating it is merely a claim, which makes it appear as though the claim is factual and that people were escaping because they were not permitted to leave. Two of the section headings are entitled "Escaping from the Hole" and "Exposing the Hole", which both imply the allegations about the conditions are true. The first section of the article is titled "Physical punishment in Scientology" and provides a litany of allegations mostly unrelated to the subject, many stated as fact, yet sourced to figures such as Stephen A. Kent who seems to rely primarily on the testimony of ex-members for his claims and is noted for association with anti-cult groups. Among the things sourced to Kent are claims such as this:
Also cited heavily in this section is Jon Atack, who is a former Scientologist and noted as a critic of the organization. On the other hand, more reliable authors are cited for negative material, but other aspects are left out. For instance, Reitman is cited several times to support predominantly negative claims such as a "musical chairs" incident, and a "purge", but just a few pages down from the "purge" material, Reitman describes former Scientologists explaining that they willingly endured this sort of treatment out of religious devotion and left out of frustration with the management of the Church. None of these instances have anything but tangential relevance to the subject of the article. It also appears this article is conflating "The Hole" with "Gold Base", which already has an article as many of the "escapes" detailed in the article refer to people leaving Gold Base. So it appears it is also a POV fork and a WP:COATRACK article, ostensibly being about a few buildings on the compound, when it is really about the compound as a whole. Some of the claims don't even concern Gold Base or are focused more on allegations about the current leader where BLP would apply. Nominating this for speedy as an attack is certainly reasonable as it does appear that the sole intent of this article is to disparage Scientology and there is a compelling argument that this article goes against numerous other policies regarding Wikipedia content, including several that would suggest the need for some sort of radical revamping.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 23:15, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
Statement by Delicious carbuncleI haven't been watching the Scientology area very closely since the Cirt case, but as far as I can tell, NestleNW911 has been completely aboveboard in identifying their potential bias and is attempting to edit towards a neutral point of view. The same cannot be said for many in that topic area. I only comment here to point out that in January 2012, I asked for someone to take action on another self-identified Scientologist and my request was ignored completely. It seems like this topic area is in need of more attention once again... Delicious carbuncle (talk) 00:01, 31 January 2013 (UTC) Just a quick comment. WP:CSD#G10 mentions "biographical material about a living person that is entirely negative in tone and unsourced". Prioryman has explained that the material is well sourced. To address TDA's concerns: the article could do with a few more "reported" and "reportedly", but a speedy deletion is overkill. To make the article more positive, you would first need to find reliable sources (third-party, independent, etc.) that give a positive light to the topic of the article. --Enric Naval (talk) 01:30, 31 January 2013 (UTC) NE Ent corrects arbitratorsWikipedia:AC/P#Reversal_of_enforcement_actions says "consensus of uninvolved editors," not administrators. NE Ent 03:35, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
Comment by Jayen466I believe the one-year topic ban is overkill and should be rescinded. It is not out of bounds to view the page as an attack page (G10). Given the lack (to date) of any criminal convictions, any ongoing investigation, and the US authorities' view that the way Scientology treats its members at the base enjoys protection under the free exercise of religion clause in the First Amendment, the article comes across as a bit of an anti-Scientology wank. Andreas JN466 06:52, 31 January 2013 (UTC) Statement by BTfromLAAn abrupt, year-long, topic ban strikes me as harsh in this case, though it can't be denied that Nestle is a single-purpose editor with a partisan POV. I have no involvement in the recent issue, but I have had a number of exchanges with Nestle on Scientology-related pages. (Some of my earlier exchanges with him are cited above in both Fluffernutter's and Nestle's arguments.) I wrote that quote Nestle uses, saying that "repeated accusations are not justified if they are based only on the fact that Nestle acts like a devoted promoter of Scientology..." Nestle took that out of context: I was defending him against unsubstantiated charges that he was a sockpuppet. This situation is different: he's now accused of being a devoted promoter of Scientology. That shoe fits. I agree with pretty much everything that Fluffernutter writes about Nestle's editing, but have my doubts about the sanction he or she imposed. Fluffernutter says that these bans are enforceable in the Scientology area for a reason--but has that reason been redefined from "disruptive" editing to "not improving the encyclopedia"? Even if the Wikipedia judges agree that he's afoul of the letter of the law, is his recent behavior so outrageous that some intermediate sanction isn't more appropriate? I guess the larger question that I'd like the administrators to consider is whether we should attempt to work with "far from the worst pro-Scientology editor[s]," to incorporate their perspective in a constructive manner. It's a very peculiar situation: virtually every true believer connected with the Church of Scientology will advance positions that the rest of us see as oblivious to evidence and flatly at odds with reality. Nestle's edits are often maddening, make no mistake. Yet, scientology has a good deal to do with the subjective experiences of members of the group, so it seems to me that if someone from inside the group is willing to negotiate and to be generally respectful of fellow editors, maybe it's worth the effort to keep that perspective in the editorial conversation. Ambivalently yours, BTfromLA (talk) 07:16, 31 January 2013 (UTC) Suggestion by LyncsI suggest that, instead of asking a higher authority to overturn the work of a good-faith administrator, that we ask said administrator to consider the opinions expressed here and revise the sanction downward for reasons expressed by other, more involved, editors. More involved than I and, I assume, more involved than the said administrator. As I read the remedy, the application of the topic ban is discretionary and the length of ban is discretionary. I think NestleNW911 was incorrect in his attempt to Speedy the article. I think that the strongest action available to him was to AFD it and even that could have landed him in hot water given his bias and editing. That said, I think one year is excessive. I respectfully request that Fluffernutter revise his sanction downward to one month topic ban. NestleNW911 should also be warned that, if he does not expand his interests beyond Scientology, the wording of the remedy puts him on very thin ice going forward. --Lyncs (talk) 12:25, 31 January 2013 (UTC)
Comment by John CarterI have been involved in Scientology related content, so I am far from certain that I qualify as "uninvolved" enough to comment below. However, I tend to agree that Sandstein's interpretation of the relevant matters makes it perhaps difficult for one admin to rescind the actions of another admin which seem to have been performed in complaince with wikipedia's policies and guidelines. That, however, would allow for us to ask that Fluffermutter perhaps reconsider the length of the sanction imposed, and, with all due respect to that individual, I think I would myself welcome some sort of consideration of the comments of others here in perhaps reviewing the length of the sanction imposed. I myself might suggest a six-month sanction, with an indication that maybe the next sanction, if any, might be indefinite with appeal only after one year of the ban being in place. I tend to be a bit less severe than others in general, and that may well be a weakness of mine, but I do have some reservations about this action getting a sanction this severe. John Carter (talk) 18:32, 3 February 2013 (UTC) Result of the appeal by NestleNW911
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Evildoer187
Evildoer187 (talk · contribs) is blocked for one week for violation of his topic-ban. -- Lord Roem ~ (talk) 16:54, 4 February 2013 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Request concerning Evildoer187
This is my first time filing an AE complaint myself, so I'm not myself very much of interest to ArbCom complaints. Also, he was reported for a 1RR violation at the 3RR noticeboard, but I'm feeling that he might need further action (from the Committee, since this is a noticeboard related to arbitration) rather than just a simple 1RR warning. Hto9950 08:10, 1 February 2013 (UTC) Reply to Sandstein: I turned the links into diffs so we can move on. Hto9950 13:03, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
Evildoer187 notified [8]
Discussion concerning Evildoer187Statement by Evildoer187Number 6 was an accident on my part, for which I was warned (see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Evildoer187#Topic_ban). However, my edits on Jewish diaspora are unrelated to the Israel-Palestine conflict and do not constitute a violation of the topic ban. I was told that I may continue to edit articles pertaining to Jews, Jewish history, and Israel, which is what I have been doing. Regarding the 1RR accusations, my edit was not a revert. There was a consensus on the talk page that favored a rephrasing of the disputed passages, and so I tried that rather than implementing quotes like I initially wanted to. Further, the article in question is not even subject to the 1RR.Evildoer187 (talk) 09:46, 1 February 2013 (UTC) Sandstein, nobody told me to revert my edit at Beersheba. They just told me to stay away and not repeat my mistake. That said, I tried just now to revert my edit there, but somebody else already did it for me. I really don't want to be blocked, and I am still trying to find a mentor. I have had no luck in that regard, up to this point.Evildoer187 (talk) 13:24, 1 February 2013 (UTC) I think a week long block is a little too harsh and unfair. 3 days sounds sufficient.Evildoer187 (talk) 21:58, 3 February 2013 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning Evildoer187Statement by Shrike
Statement by Dlv999I think the Jewish Diaspora article should be under WP:ARBPIA. Looking at the page history the article is rife with topic banned editors and has been targeted by one of the IP areas most prolific sockmasters. You can make a case that the topic is not related, but it is subject to the exact same problems (sock puppetry, POV pushing, Battleground ect.) by the exact same group of problematic IP editors so as far as Wikipedia is concerned it is related and should be protected by the discretionary sanctions. If the article is not covered it would seem anomalous that a discussion of the historicity of ancient exile narratives is covered by ARBPIA at the Palestinian People page, but the same discussion is not covered by ARBPIA at the Jewish diaspora page. The truth is the historical narratives of both peoples are bound up in the conflict. Having said that, I would not support sanctions for edits related to that page as it seems clear that the editor acting in good faith did not know the article was related. I had a case filed against me regarding an article that was not labelled as IP related and I was not aware that it was considered related when I made the edit - it is not nice. Dlv999 (talk) 10:53, 1 February 2013 (UTC) Statement by NishidaniIf Evildoer was notified, but didn't have much time to undo his edit before it was reverted by someone else, that is a definite factor of mitigation. He also has a right to a mentor, a request till now unsatisfied, but an admission he wishes tutelage. Perhaps 24 hours, if one must be severe, but otherwise just a warning.Nishidani (talk) 14:24, 1 February 2013 (UTC) Result concerning Evildoer187
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Ceco31
Ceco31 (talk · contribs) is warned about possible sanctions pursuant to WP:ARBMAC. --Lord Roem ~ (talk) 21:36, 6 February 2013 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Request concerning Ceco31
Ceco31 has been revert-warring stubbornly across several articles with a nationally motivated POV agenda, failing to engage constructively in discussion and using reverts as a routine response to criticism.
Discussion concerning Ceco31Statement by Ceco31I tried to discuss in Talk:Bulgarian-Ottoman Wars but nobody answered me. You, the reverting, did not discuss too. OK, I don't want to be blocked, I will discuss and not edit war without discussing anymore, I promise. It is important to note that I didn't engaged those who revrted me to labour or waste their time, because they only revrted mine edits and didn.'t make improvements, I labored to work for something, whether corrections or improvements.--Ceco31 (talk) 10:15, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning Ceco31It is possible, and not without precedent, to issue an AE warning as the result of this filing while still issuing a non-AE block on him for edit-warring. One does not preclude the other. The block would not enjoy the AE protections and could be overturned as usual, but if you as a regular admin think it is deserved then you can do so. Just be sure to clearly state it is not an AE action. 204.101.237.139 (talk) 18:41, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
About the "voluntary agreement to stay out of this topic": please note that right after he ostensibly agreed to this here on this page, he again continued revert-warring on Bulgaria [28]. Fut.Perf. ☼ 11:16, 6 February 2013 (UTC) Result concerning Ceco31
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Oliveriki
Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Request concerning Oliveriki
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Oliveriki (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Wikipedia:ARBAA2#Standard discretionary sanctions
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)
There are warnings at talk of this user, but in addition to that I reported him to this board a few months ago, so he is well aware of AA2 sanctions: [29]
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
Some time ago the account of Oliveriki caused major disruption in the article about Nagorno-Karabakh, appearing out of nowhere and reverting it to a months old version by the banned user. I reported him back then, but the diffs were considered stale, and no action was taken: [30] I described in much detail his disruptive behavior in that report. Despite being here for about 2 years, Oliveriki has only made 21 edits to date, large proportion of which are reverts in support of banned accounts. Oliveriki has been absent since April 2012, but yesterday he appeared as usual out of nowhere to rv a contentious AA article, to which he never contributed before: [31] Oliveriki is clearly an SPI, used solely for edit warring. He made almost no useful contributions in 2 years that he has been registered here. I believe it is time to restrict his activity, because appearing time after time after long periods of inactivity just to rv in support of suspicious accounts is not in line with AA arbitration ruling. Grandmaster 21:48, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
I think the fact that Oliveriki turns up after being long dormant only to join another edit war is a sufficient ground for a topic ban. And the accounts he reverts for are extremely suspicious too, as it was mentioned here. I see no reason why Oliveriki should be allowed to edit AA area, to which with one minor exception he makes no useful contributions, and moreover, as others pointed out, he aggravates the existing or starts new edit wars. The only article that he created in two years is not linked by any other article. If we do not stop him now, he will do the same thing next time, like he did before. I think it should be made really clear that the use of SPIs to edit war will not be tolerated in AA area. Also of note that out of 5 accounts that waged the edit war at Nagorno-Karabakh 3 have already been banned (Winterbliss, Dehr, Sprutt), with remaining 2 accounts (Oliveriki and Zimmarod) continuing the same behavior in another article. Grandmaster 20:30, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
While I understand concerns of Sandstein, I would like to show the chain of events which made me file this report. I'm a long time contributor to Shusha, which is why I have it on my watchlist. This article attracts a lot of sockery. Zimmarod (talk · contribs), who was inactive since 14 December 2012, makes an edit to Shusha on 29 January 2013. I'm leaving aside the actual merits of the edit, it is a different issue. When reverted, the edit is restored on 3 February 2013 by Oliveriki (talk · contribs), who was inactive since April 2012. After that the same edit is restored by 517design (talk · contribs), who was also inactive since 14 December 2012 (again) until the same day of 3 January 2013, when 517design made a cosmetic edit to Sergey Lavrov. The the next day 517design reverted Shusha. Prior to that, the last edits by both Zimmarod and 517design were to WP:AE on 14 December 2012, where they both posted in defense of another banned user. Isn't it strange that all 3 accounts that were long inactive returned to life at the same time on the same article? Or that 2 of them posted at AE in support of another user, after which they both vanished? It is probably worth mentioning that all these 3 accounts have a limited number of edits (less than 500 each). Grandmaster 21:53, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Discussion concerning Oliveriki
Statement by Oliveriki
None of my recent or past edits are in any way wrongful or violating anything at all. I do not edit frequently, and that is entirely ok. Grandmaster, on the other hand, is fueling edit war by abusing AE with meaningless filings. It is his second filing against me – the first one was dismissed. I am the author of the Azgapet article, which is a useful contribution. There is nothing objectionable with my recent edit, in which I reverted [33] Brandmeister. I included edit summary, explaining why I did that.
Oliveriki (talk) 19:25, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning Oliveriki
Comment by The Devil's Advocae
- Sockpuppet or not, Oliveriki is clearly a tendentious SPA. The account is focused exclusively on the subject of Nagorno-Karabakh and in that focus does nothing but attempt to push a pro-Armenian position in articles by aggravating or sparking edit wars.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 17:28, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
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- Roem, the article in question notes that there is some dispute about whether there was a fortress or town there in the past, which would have gone by a different name. What Oliver is inserting with that revert is material that states in the lede that it served as an Armenian fortress as though it were settled history. This is typical tendentious reverting.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 23:24, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
- Sandstein, the material being reverted in by Oliveriki as part of an edit war was stating in the lede as fact that Shusha was previously a town and fortress, when the material in the article says there is dispute over whether any town or fortress was present in the area prior to the establishment of Shusha. Stating in the editorial voice in the lede that Shusha was previously an Armenian town and fortress is tendentious. Given the minimal activity of Oliveriki, I think not so much as warning Oliver seems misguided. Accounts that apparently only show up to pick a fight or join one should not be ignored. The action last year was incredibly disruptive and this recent edits was similarly disruptive.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 22:10, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
Comment by Golbez
- I too have thought that Oliveriki and Zimmarod could be socks, and thought it was extremely curious that both of them made their first edits in months (many months, in Oliveriki's case) on the same edit on the article at the same time. That said, since we aren't talking in terms of an SPI, this is an AE request, I would agree that the one-revert restriction is proper, but not sure how useful it would be so long as the others are still around. --Golbez (talk) 19:58, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
- I think one revert restriction will not help, Oliveriki usually turns up to make 1 rv, after which the edit war is picked up by other accounts. This is their way of evading 1 rv per day restriction that is imposed on many AA articles. He should be either topic banned, or not allowed to rv at all. If he needs to rv, he can notify others about the edit that needs to be undone. Grandmaster 20:38, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
Comment by Zimmarod concerning Oliveriki
I am commenting because User:Grandmaster and his pals mentioned me here. But I need to note that this is yet another foul AE request by Grandmaster, an attempt – the second such attempt in fact, here was the first [34] - to ban Oliveriki under fake claims of misconduct. Grandmaster is a serial violator of WP:AGF, also because he accuses me here [35] to have a connection with someone else with absolutely NO evidence at all, calling me and others "suspicious accounts" in this and all other AE requests. Grandmaster is clearly covering for User:Brandmeister, with whom he has for a long time tried to WP:OWN the Nagorno-Karabakh topic, and who has been engaged in an edit war in the article Shusha. Here is when the same well-referenced passage was erased by Brandmeister for the first time [36], then the same passage was removed by Brandmeister for the second time [37], and here is the third time when the same passage was erased by Brandmeister [38] without any attempt to explain the multiple removals on talk pages. Grandmaster perhaps is also in a violation of WP:BATTLEGROUND because he treats very normal and reasonable edits of the same editor Oliveriki as an excuse to file repeated AE requests, accusing Oliveriki in just about everything imaginable without evidence. Zimmarod (talk) 00:33, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
- Please also note the canvassing by User:Grandmaster per WP:CANVASS, directing User:Golbez to comment on this topic: [39] and [40]. Zimmarod (talk) 00:52, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
Result concerning Oliveriki
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
- I think this should be closed with no action, but I'm open to the idea of a topic-ban if others feel Oliveriki is pushing a specific agenda. The sole mainspace edit he's made this year, which is also the edit at issue here, is the addition of content with a cited source. When it was reverted by another, he didn't add it back in or engage in any other behavior that would bring up red flags. Personally, I'd need something more serious to feel comfortable imposing a block. -- Lord Roem ~ (talk) 19:42, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
- Because the report contains no diff of a warning that meets the formal requirements of WP:AC/DS#Warnings, administrators here can do nothing but issue such a warning. But because the edit reported here does not appear problematic to me, I don't see any grounds on which to issue a warning. The mere fact that it is a revert is not as such a problem, and the revert is not on its face non-neutral or otherwise unconstructive. I would instead examine whether the repeated filing of unactionable AE requests by Grandmaster against Oliveriki is grounds for restrictions against Grandmaster. Sandstein 08:39, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
Brandmeister
Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Request concerning Brandmeister
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Brandmeister (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
Wikipedia:ARBAA2#Standard discretionary sanctions
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- Repeated removal of a referenced part of text from Shusha article:
- [41] Brandmeister removed a perfectly referenced passage, without engaging on talk pages
- [42] Brandmeister removed the same passage for the second time, without explaining himself on talk pages
- [43] Brandmeister removed the same passage for the third time, without any explanation on talk pages (he reluctantly made a talk page posting one day later, as a damage control action, after the intervention of Golbez and 517design [44].
- Repeated erasing an entire article List of architects of Baku under the deceptive promise of redirection:
- [45] Article redirected but the erased text is not included into the target article Armenian architecture despite promise [46]
- [47] ] Article redirected but the erased text is not included into the target article Architecture of Azerbaijan despite promise [48]
- Edit-warring on Nagorno-Karabakh page
- [49] Brandmeister erased as much as -30,917 bytes of text
- [50] Brandmeister continued edit warring, erasing the same -30,917 bytes of meticulously referenced text
- Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)
- Warned on 10 December 2012 10 December 2012 by User:Sprutt
- Warned on 4 September 2012 4 September 2012 by User:De728631
- History of blocks:
- Blocked on 11 February 2011 for One Year for edit warring [51] by User:Sandstein
- Restricted to one revert per page per seven-day period in the area of conflict for six months, [52] by User:Sandstein
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
User: Brandmeister has a history of blocks and sanctions as seen above, including a 1 year topic ban [53]. After the ban expired, Brandmeister has returned to edit warring in AA area. As of late, his reckless demeanor included the articles Shusha, Ramil Safarov, and List of architects of Baku. Temporary restrictions have no effect on Brandmeister. It is time to restrict his activity permanently, because tolerating such conduct is not in line with AA arbitration ruling.
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Reply to Grandmaster et al
Since there are questions regarding removals and re-insertions of large fragments of text on the Nagorno-Karabakh article, I would like to remind what was taking place at that time, in January-March 2012. There exists a good, perfectly researched text with a ton of good quality references that was composed some time ago by people who were accused in being socks. These supposedly sock accounts were banned via an orchestrated avalanche of bad-faith SPIs, launched by User:Grandmaster and a group of editors who in Russian wiki were once accused in managing a massive meat-puppet network of Azerbaijani nationalists, known as 26 Baku Commissars. Grandmaster and such accounts, with User:Brandmeister among them, then erased that entire text, reducing Nagorno Karabakh to an awkward hodge-podge of an article. User:Golbez suggested that if anyone wanted to reinsert pieces of a text originally written by users who had gotten banned, someone needed to assume ownership for the erased text, and then discuss it anew in the spirit of building a consensus as to what parts of the text should remain and what parts shall be left out [55]. I had assumed that ownership, discussing the entire thing in detail as seen here in subchapter "Restored part of the text discussion by Zimmarod' [56]. That text that I now "owned" was endorsed by several editors, including: User:Vacio, User:Nocturnal781, User:Winterbliss, User:Oliveriki, User:Sprutt, User:Hablabar and User:Dehr. See the multiple endorsements for the new Medieval section of the Nagorno Karabakh article here [57]. That is how a more complete Nagorno-Karabakh article should look like. As for User:Brandmeister and Grandmaster, they want to keep the article small and awkward because a better quality article would inevitably discuss much more about Armenians – something that Azerbaijani nationalists try to prevent. Hence, the approach based on abrasive vandalism adopted by the twin accounts of Brandmeister and Grandmaster – [58], [59], [60]. Zimmarod (talk) 01:43, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Brandmeister
Statement by Brandmeister
Much ado about nothing. Following my edit in Shusha the article was besieged by other accounts, reverting in a suspicious manner to the same version and requiring the intervention of mediator Golbez. As Golbez explained, it was merely a WP:BRD cycle. I started the relevant thread Talk:Shusha#Bournoutian and every dissenting user is welcome to reply there before further reverts. Brandmeistertalk 22:58, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning Brandmeister
Since Brandmeister's topic ban is mentioned, I looked into its history, and it was clearly a mistake. The complaint against Brandmeister was made by User:Vandorenfm, a sock of the banned user. See here: [61] Note the complaint of the sock: The immediate concern is his editing of the article on Caucasian Albania, where User:Twilight Chill continues waging an edit war against 5 (five) other unrelated editors (Aram-van, Gorzaim, Vandorenfm, MarshallBagramyan, Xebulon). It is of interest that 4 of 5 accounts that Vandorenfm mentioned turned out later to be socks (User:Aram-van, User:Gorzaim, User:Vandorenfm, and User:Xebulon). So it is pretty much a situation of sock accounts ganging up on an established user, and then reporting him to get him restricted. This tactics worked once. How do we know that the same thing is not happening again now? Grandmaster 21:21, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
Further research shows that 1 week block (not 1 year, as Zimmarod says) was also a result of the conflict with the same sock account of Vandorenfm. [62] Grandmaster 22:29, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
With regards to warning for Zimmarod, he was posting repeatedly at WP:AE on AA related reports, so he was well aware of AA2 sanctions. For example, he posted at this thread: [63], and most recently here: [64] And community opinion about warnings was summarized on a similar AA case appeal by JamesBWatson: [65] "If the person clearly knows about the restriction, then no further warning is needed". Grandmaster 00:29, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
- Grandmaster clearly considers my AE request as "sock accounts ganging up on an established user, and then reporting him to get him restricted." Don't you think there are enough baseless accusations me being a sock; findings of multiple SPI reports are not of any value to Grandmaster. Please mind WP:AGF and WP:NPA. Zimmarod (talk) 01:53, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
- Chekuser cannot disprove sockpuppetry. According to WP:CHECK: CheckUser data is of limited use, and a negative finding never precludes obvious sock-puppetry. In this case quacking could be heard miles away (and it is not just my opinion, at least one admin shares it, and Sandstein himself admits that there might be good reasons for suspicion). I think it would be really wrong sanctioning a well established user with thousands of useful contribs in favor of a bunch of accounts with a limited number of edits. This would just encourage sockpuppetry. What is the point in being a long established editor, if you can roll out a bunch of SPAs time after time, and have the article your way? If a few of those SPAs get banned, no big deal, one can always create new ones. And get an established user banned and sanctioned by reporting him. I think previous sanctions of Brandmeister should not be taken into consideration, and moreover, they should be repealed. It is clear as a day now that he was provoked by socks of the banned user, and the report on him was made by a sock account as well. Even if Brandmeister made some reverting back then, reverting socks is not sanctionable, and moreover, the rules hold that any contribs by banned users need to be reverted on spot regardless of their quality. Report by the sock account Vandorenfm was also not actionable, because a banned user is not allowed to edit the AE page in the first place. Also note that while in the recent case in question Brandmeister made 2 rvs, he was the only one who commented at talk, while neither of the 3 accounts reverting him did the same. Plus, User:517design did not even bother to leave an edit summary for his rv: [66] Yet 517design was placed on an editing restriction, which limits him to one revert per page per week, excepting obvious vandalism, and he is required to discuss any content reversions on the page's talk page: [67] So 517design clearly violated his restriction. Grandmaster 09:27, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
Comment by The Devil's Advocate
This should be a giant WP:BOOMERANG for Zimmarod. When Zimmarod references an over 30kb revert, it was in response to Zimmarod's dubious revert, which was rekindling an edit-war previously re-kindled by Oliveriki, who was rekindling some edit-war waged by a bunch of Xebulon socks to restore material written by other Xebulon socks. We have only one recent incident being mentioned here where it was again Zimmarod and Oliveriki reverting. I also have to wonder if these are socks or proxies of the previous editors. They have certainly been fueling disruption in the topic area.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 23:18, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
Comment by Golbez
I need to correct a factual error in this listing; I reverted back to Brandmeister's version via BRD *after* he made his talk page posting. He did not make his talk page post in response to my edit. --Golbez (talk) 15:14, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
Result concerning Brandmeister
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
- As DA says above, this area is becoming a huge mess. At a minimum, I think we should consider imposing a 1RR on at least the three articles mentioned in the initial request. I think Brandmeister's second revert of material on the Shusha article, within the context of the past issues shown above, is disruptive and deserves a block. I'm still looking at the edits of Zimmarod and don't have an opinion on that as of yet. Right now, he hasn't been warned on his talk for anything. --Lord Roem ~ (talk) 23:58, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
- Brandmeister was given a topic ban in 2011, which he subsequently violated. Again, it appears he's been engaging in disruptive editing. I'm considering a 1 month block for edit warring and a two-year topic ban in this area. For Zimmarod, I think a warning is appropriate at this stage, as some of the edits linked above are a bit stale. --Lord Roem ~ (talk) 03:06, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
- Concur, albeit based on a summary review of the thread. The warning for Zimmarod is justified on the basis of the personal attacks and battleground attitude exhibited in this thread alone. I agree that the history of the article gives the impression that sock- or meatpuppetry may be involved. Therefore I also recommend to warn the other editors involved in the edit war about discretionary sanctions, and that the prohibition against edit-warring also prohibits continuing edit wars started by others, which means that they may therefore be sanctioned even for one revert if it is part of a broader edit war. Sandstein 07:32, 7 February 2013 (UTC)