Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Sportspeople

This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to Sportspeople. It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.

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Sportspeople

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The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. ✗plicit 14:44, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Robert Capperauld

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Fails GNG. Dougal18 (talk) 14:35, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, and Scotland. Skynxnex (talk) 16:27, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:06, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

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The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 14:39, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Charles Pickering (footballer)

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AFC moved to mainspace by non-reviewer and is still not yet ready for mainspace. Two of the sources in the reference section are from Facebook. The article also provides little context other than that he was on some teams. Shadow311 (talk) 13:32, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Football and Philippines. Skynxnex (talk) 16:26, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete -- I draftified the page to give the page creator more time to look for sources. The same user moved it back to the mainspace after adding a stats database and a Facebook link to the page. Fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 16:36, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – Per @JTtheOG. Since the incubation time as a draft wasn't respected, it's up to deletion. Svartner (talk) 20:33, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:06, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom and the fact that it fails notability Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 01:35, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Albert Tjåland

AfDs for this article:

Articles for deletion/Albert Tjåland (2nd nomination)

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This succumbed to an AFD before, but since then it has been recreated due to "coverage in international media". It happened at a time when the player was looking to be moving up in the football hierarchy, but with all due respect to the player, the career has stagnated, which I think allows us to see the subject in a clearer light. In an encyclopedic sence, Albert Tjåland fails WP:NOTINHERITED, WP:SUSTAINED, WP:TOOSOON, WP:SIRS and as a consequence WP:SPORTCRIT.

ABT was a child whom international media took a novelty interest to.
His football career has not panned out. He plays on the fourth tier, has never played a league game for a first team, only reaching as far as appearing 6 times on Bryne's bench - as well as playing a cup game for Molde, which for WP:PEACOCK reasons is called "a professional debut". Nothing he has done remotely resembles a significant accomplishment within sport.
While there was coverage in many countries, there reports about various accomplishments in children's games lack significance, and was all the more packed with speculation and hot air. A big breakthrough is not currently looming on the horizon, and while it might of course happen one day, we have the too soon guideline for a reason.
The press coverage was exclusively motivated by him having a famous relative. Albert and Erling have similar names and likenesses, and joined the same club (Molde) as a youth player. Take the relative out of the equation, and what are you left with? Notability is not inherited from relatives. Geschichte (talk) 09:34, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, and Norway. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 10:44, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 20:03, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, passes GNG with significant coverage.--Ortizesp (talk) 12:52, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is no significant coverage, just churnalism. As I took the time to explain why I think so above, I think you should explain your view as well. Geschichte (talk) 07:59, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 11:56, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Per Ortizesp. Young player with ongoing career with pro Norwegian top flight team and many good sources already. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 07:50, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Any further thoughts?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris ^talk! 06:47, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. My further thoughts are that the keep opinions are annulled by their lack of explanation and non-existing response as to the nomination statement, which detailed a failure of several policies. "significant coverage" and "many good sources" are unfounded opinions; "ongoing career with pro Norwegian top flight team" is false, Tjåland has an ongoing career with a semi-pro B team on the fourth tier. Geschichte (talk) 07:32, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect‎ to 1984 AFC Asian Cup squads#United Arab Emirates. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:12, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bader Ahmed Saleh

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Article fails WP:GNG. Simione001 (talk) 04:39, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete We used to keep footballers who had played 2 or more professional games, so I am guessing this article got in with the old rules, but now it must be removed as there is no coverage about this person.Hkkingg (talk) 15:53, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Redirect to 1984 AFC Asian Cup squads#United Arab Emirates as possible search term. Giant Snowman 20:04, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Shadow311 (talk) 18:40, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect as above seems like a fine alternative to deletion, there isn't much written about this individual. Oaktree b (talk) 19:37, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Lee Harris (figure skater)

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Fails WP:NSKATE; not sure whether the rest qualifies as notable. Bgsu98 (Talk) 03:53, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete does not meet WP:NSKATE and I am also not seeing much coverage on this person.Hkkingg (talk) 15:58, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep -- Pretty clear-cut case of a WP:GNG pass, and WP:SPORTCRIT at the very least. Yet another poor nomination. JTtheOG (talk) 22:18, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 04:13, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:34, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: The sources from the Windsor Star and Columbus Dispatch meet the WP:GNG. Let'srun (talk) 21:36, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 03:56, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thyago Moraes

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I cannot find anything online about this football player. I find that strange because usually you would at least find his name on sports info, betting websites and so forth. But nothing.The so-called external links are not helpful either, to say the least. The article was tagged 3 times for speedy deletion. As it is, I propose this article for deletion as an unsourced BLP without evidence of notability Ruud Buitelaar (talk) 00:33, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete – In WP:BEFORE I didn't find anything relevant about the athlete, I didn't even find a profile on ogol.com., of the sources presented in the article, one is for a video on YouTube, one for an image on a blog, and two are inaccessible. I believe that in this case WP:GNG clearly failed. Svartner (talk) 04:00, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject to meet GNG. My guess is that he goes by another name. JTtheOG (talk) 16:30, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 20:02, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I also can't find anything to indicate they are notable. KylieTastic (talk) 13:59, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Agree with notability concerns. I haven't been able to find any reliable sources like news articles or independent reviews to support the notability of this subject. Waqar💬 18:07, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Chip Merlin

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Fails WP:GNG. I had declined this at AfC and still don't see references showing notability despite being moved to mainspace by another editor. CNMall41 (talk) 00:34, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, Sportspeople, and Law. CNMall41 (talk) 00:35, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

*Keep subject meets notability requirements for an athlete and has been covered in a variety of sailing publications and websites. I feel it is worth noting that off the bat CNMall41 immediately accused me without evidence of having a personal connection to the subject and seems to bear some personal grudge against this article, previously having said they would step away from being involved in the editorial process.Sailbanshee (talk) 01:06, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Sports career coverage is notable and significant and subject has notable legal and writing career with well cited sourcesAnatomyoffear (talk) 01:18, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

*Keep Article is well cited and establishes notability as a prominent athlete in the world of yacht racing with a verified track record and unique, well documented story covered in a variety of independent, verifiable sources.Captbloodrock (talk) 04:32, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the vote. Since you moved to the main space, I am wondering if you can point out the references that specifically show how subject meets WP:GNG. --CNMall41 (talk) 04:35, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

:::Multiple articles covering subject in yachting and boating websites, coverage in major newspapers, documentation of subject competing and placing in major yachting events…Captbloodrock (talk) 04:50, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Okay. I am asking for the specific ones. The ones that discuss him in-depth that are considered reliable under Wikipedia standards. Are you able to point those out?--CNMall41 (talk) 04:54, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

::::: The Tampa Bay Times article, the Museler article(s), the article about his obtaining a new ship for an established boat racing team, the multiple articles about his participation and placing in races… I thought the original article author was being paranoid but I’m beginning to side with them there’s some bias on your part against this article’s subject. I believe this article meets notability requirements which is why I moved it. I’ve stated my case for such and won’t engage in any more nit-picking. You put the article up for a vote, let the vote decide.Captbloodrock (talk) 05:02, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

AfD is a discussion, not a vote. As far as the WP:aspersions, feel free to take it to WP:ANI. If you are unable to point out specific references other than naming a publication, I am unsure how to further discuss. --CNMall41 (talk) 05:05, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak keep: Sail magazine and the Tampa Bay Times article (the first two cited) are each WP:SIGCOV. There appears to be some WP:REFBOMB going on here and improvements need to be made, but there is enough here for this to be kept. Let'srun (talk) 02:30, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Just to confirm, you are talking about this Tampa Bay Times reference which is a routine announcement about his law firm. --CNMall41 (talk) 03:32, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Article is well sourced and subject meets Wikipedia:Notability (people) for both his law career but especially sports athletic career, which the article documents and cites well with appropriate citations.IOProfessor (talk) 23:08, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

All right, given that (1) this has been confounded by confirmed socks, (2) the article shows signs of COI, and (3) this is the only thing in your entire edit history, I must ask how you discovered this particular AfD, IOProfessor. Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 23:12, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting due to confirmation that socks dominated the previous keep !votes. Will strike through the sock comments.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 20:51, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep- as a person who previously voted keep, I’m voting keep again. And since I am not a sock, I assume it will still be counted. Anatomyoffear (talk) 21:45, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

User:Anatomyoffear and User:IOProfessor were listed among suspected socks of Captbloodrock but unconfirmed, therefore I did not strike through their remarks. Note, though, that IOProfessor's only Wikipedia contribution ever was to chime in on this specific AfD. Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 21:05, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It’s actually possible for multiple people to disagree with you. I am in fact my own whole and separate person, and I can see perfectly well that you’re wrong and doubling down. Let me know if you’d like me to send you a picture of myself and today’s newspaper to prove that I’m a real person and not an evil doppelganger or a figment of your fevered paranoia. 2603:9001:953F:178:B824:2ECE:2DE1:DC7 (talk) 21:20, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If I were doubling down, I would not have reopened this AfD. This is the opposite of that. In 16 years as an admin, this is the first time I have ever been persuaded to reopen an AfD, and it is because I read the report at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Captbloodrock. Incidentally, who are you, unsigned user? Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 21:24, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I was in such a hurry to point out how you’re wrong about me that I posted from my phone, which wasn’t logged in. But I’m here now. Hello! It’s me, the person you think is Captbloodrock. I am, in fact, not. Nor am I whoever IOProfessor is, either. There are a number of other people I am also not, but you haven’t accused me of being any of those, so I’ll leave that be. Anatomyoffear (talk) 21:37, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

While I hesitate to respond and take this down some rabbit hole of a tangent, I will point out that I only mentioned you to note that despite the inclusion of your name in the sock investigation that I linked, you were not found to be a sockpuppet and therefore I did not strike through your comments. Now that you have drawn attention, though, I am curious: What drew you to the Chip Merlin AfD after six months away from Wikipedia? Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 22:57, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I like lawyer stuff. I've noted things on other lawyer pages as well. Ironically, I discovered this guy through his sailing, not his lawyer stuff, but how's that for a small world? Anatomyoffear (talk) 17:23, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: This one might have legs; [1] is about him and the law firm... It's hard to filter out all the PR and promo items in searches. This talks briefly about him [ https://books.google.ca/books?id=qGh0ol-_mCEC&lpg=PA20&dq=%22Chip%20Merlin%22%20-wikipedia&pg=PA20#v=onepage&q=%22Chip%20Merlin%22%20-wikipedia&f=false]. Oaktree b (talk) 23:45, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Selective Merge to S/V Merlin: There are three topics:

the law firm which Merlin founded. This is possibly WP:NOTEWORTHY given the claim that it is "the second-largest firm in the United States in the field of representing insurance claims for natural disaster victims" -- but not overwhelmingly so (second largest in a single [large] country in a subdomain of a specific domain), and would require WP:NCORP to be clearly met... which it certainly doesn't on current sourcing.
the S/V Merlin which Merlin purchased and which has a long prior history. The yacht is almost certainly notable, but its article is in need of proper referencing and copyediting for WP:TONE and editing and monitoring for WP:COATRACK).
Merlin himself, whose level of notability/noteworthiness can reasonably be tied to his law firm, but not to purchasing/owning/operating the yacht (WP:NOTINHERITED)

... which gets us onto sources. Self-published sources don't count as WP:SIGCOV, and nor do sources which are not WP:INDEPENDENT and nor do WP:PASSINGMENTIONS in stories focussed primarily on another topic - this includes Oaktree b's Tampa Bay Times story & the passing coverage in the ABA journal, and Let'srun's highlighting of the Sail Magazine and Tampa Bay Times citations. Nor are the sources I've looked at any more reassuring.

I'm thus landing on redirection of Chip Merlin to S/V Merlin, with Chip Merlin as a lawyer appearing there as something concise along the lines of "Chip Merlin, a Florida personal injury attorney whose firm Merlin Law Group is (as of 2024) the second-largest in the United States in the field of representing insurance claims for natural disaster victims", and the contents of this article regarding the yacht selectively merged to S/V Merlin -- which could improve that article. If, at some point, Merlin Law Group manages to pass the WP:NCORP bar and has a compliant article written (noting WP:PAID and WP:COI and WP:LUC), then Merlin could instead be redirected there. ^~Hydronium^~Hydroxide^~(Talk)~ 00:56, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also note that given the S/V Merlin is a large yacht whose Merlin Racing Team is captained by Chip Merlin, individual notability on WP:NATHLETE grounds doesn't really apply here, but WP:NTEAM could -- but WP:NOPAGE would suggest that even if notability for the team itself could be established that S/V Merlin is the right place to cover them. ^~Hydronium^~Hydroxide^~(Talk)~ 01:18, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting to see if there is any support for a Merge.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:50, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Liz:, I think a redirect would be a good WP:ATD but there is already more than sufficient information on that page about him. Would likely need to cut down quite a bit of that page due to referencing issues. --CNMall41 (talk) 04:17, 21 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect‎ to 1980 AFC Asian Cup squads#North Korea. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:25, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hwang Sang-hoi

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Article fails WP:GNG. Simione001 (talk) 00:14, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. Neither sources pass WP:SIGCOV. No other reliable sources found, aside from a small football bio that doesn't appear to be very reliable. Not notable enough in either case. Lynch44 (talk) 00:21, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Doesn't meet WP:GNG, nor Wikipedia:Notability (sports). Noorullah (talk) 00:23, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect – To 1980 AFC Asian Cup squads#North Korea as WP:AtD. Svartner (talk) 04:02, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Redirect to 1980 AFC Asian Cup squads#North Korea as possible search term. Giant Snowman 20:04, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) (talk) 02:41, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to 1980 AFC Asian Cup squads#North Korea - only claim to fame and per ATD Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 11:41, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:26, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dino Mennillo

AfDs for this article:

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Article fails WP:GNG. Sources are mostly transfer and contractual related and some stuff related to his job as a an Occupational therapist which is not notable. Simione001 (talk) 00:10, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 20:02, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Haven't looked it at much myself, but just noting @GiantSnowman: that the article has been expanded with more sources. BeanieFan11 (talk) 01:56, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for that - there appears to be enough decent coverage to satisfy me. Giant Snowman 07:47, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) (talk) 02:40, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Per above. Player with extensive Australia top flgiht career with many sources. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 03:52, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: Sources 1 and 8 are the best from what I see, not very extensive but we have enough to build an article with everything else. Oaktree b (talk) 19:59, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:39, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Geraint James (rugby union)

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I am unable to find sufficient in-depth coverage of the subject -- a Welsh rugby union player who played one pro game -- to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. A couple mentions here, another trivial mention there, but nothing substantial. JTtheOG (talk) 23:15, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete

Played one match for Cardiff due to extraordinary circumstances. Unlikely to feature further or have any future significant coverage. RodneyParadeWanderer (talk) 16:03, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete A number of passing mentions, but looks to fail WP:GNG. No suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:39, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete lacks indepth coverage fails WP:GNG.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 21:22, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete fails WP:SPORTBASIC and no evidence of WP:SIGCOV. Contributor892z (talk) 16:06, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:33, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Colton Eastman

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Non-notable baseball player. Majority of cited sources are transaction logs and other WP:ROUTINE coverage that does not establish WP:GNG. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:31, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment: Dropping a couple of sources from his college days. Cal State Fullerton pitcher Colton Eastman could help lift team past slow start, Timely Return: Rested and eager, Eastman strengthens Titans Timely Return part 2, A Three-Pronged Strategy for Draft, Eastman could have tough choice, Tough choice part 2, Ex-Central standout Eastman pitches no-hitter. JTtheOG (talk) 23:08, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Agree with the nom here. Not really a notable baseball player. SportingFlyer T·C 02:40, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Only coverage is routine transaction reports any player of this level receives. No WP:SIGCOV is available for this subject to meet the WP:GNG. Let'srun (talk) 12:40, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom fails WP:GNG.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 22:18, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:12, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dubee

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Does not meet Wikipedia:Notability (music)— Preceding unsigned comment added by Jb45424 (talk • contribs) 12:44, April 29, 2024 (UTC)

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Found this during PROD patrol, and wanted to discuss it at AFD myself. The pros here are a short Allmusic review and two sizeable writeups at Rapreviews.com. I have no prior experience with Rapreviews.com, but the site is used for more than 100 wp articles. I'm leaning keep. Geschichte (talk) 08:03, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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I was able to find this article about the subject, and I would also describe myself as leaning keep. Hatman31 (talk) 17:45, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 04:53, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Patrik Kincl

AfDs for this article:

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I am renominating this article for a better debate, as I think the 1st nomination was not discussed thoroughly enough. The subject is not meeting requirements of English WP notability for MMA fighters (WP:NMMA).

The sources on the article mainly consist of database entries, interviews, subject's personal website and routine fight results. No indication of independent fact checking. An article about signing his autobiography at a book store. Biography in a Czech sports site, which doesn't appear to be very neutral based on the section titled "Patrik Kincl - the birth of an MMA god”.

In addition, the use of the subject personal website biography twice and the tone used shows potential WP:PROMO.  Others sources found after good faith search (see first nomination) do not appear to be reliable and independent sources.   No indication that we have the type of coverage required to meet WP:GNG or WP:ANYBIO.  

As user Papaursa mentioned in the first nomination, all coverage is very typical sports reporting that can be found for any fighters, which is nothing that shows particular notability.  Lekkha Moun (talk) 18:22, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete No additional sources have been found to change my analysis from the previous discussion. Clearly fails WP:NMMA and I don't believe the coverage presented in either the article or previous AfD is sufficient to meet WP:GNG, WP:ANYBIO, or any other WP notability criteria as it is generally routine, database, not independent and/or unreliably sourced. Papaursa (talk) 15:50, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisting comment: Ineligible for soft deletion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 23:40, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete for the same reasons as when I first nominated it. Doesn't meet notability. Nswix (talk) 04:19, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. — CactusWriter ^(talk) 20:37, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

William van Wyk

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. Purely trivial mentions. JTtheOG (talk) 19:16, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Looks to fail WP:GNG. No suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:36, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Keep‎. — CactusWriter ^(talk) 20:25, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kagiso Mohale

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Poorly sourced cricketer BLP that fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. Ineligible for PROD. No suitable redirect exists AFAIK. JTtheOG (talk) 19:02, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep as what JP has found alone seems to indicate that it passes GNG Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 09:59, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - it appears the Cricinfo spelling of his first name is incorrect, on CricketArchive as Kagisho Mohale and a search of that name shows up more coverage. This, that and a Diamond Fields Advertiser piece found on Newsbank re his promotion to the Knights franchise as starters. 100 FC/LA/T20 appearances represents decent amount of cricket notabilìty. JP (Talk) 18:44, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for pointing this out. While I don't think the first two sources contribute much (three-ish sentences of coverage and an interview), the third one is much more promising and an indication that there might more coverage out there to meet GNG. JTtheOG (talk) 19:14, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Spelling of his name differs between sources, but certainly WP:GNG passing coverage that JP has found. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:47, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Beyond what has been found, this should perhaps dictate logic should be used – if a cricketer makes this many appearances at the highest level, then they're probably notable. AA (talk) 21:29, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep and mention in the article the dual version of his name's spelling. I would say he passes WP:SIGCOV. In addition to the sources already mentioned there is another source here: [2]. Contributor892z (talk) 19:35, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Note that this is a WP:MIRROR. JTtheOG (talk) 19:50, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus‎. Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 19:38, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Josh Fusitua

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a New Zealand rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 23:45, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep Think there's just about enough when sourcing snippets are combined, such as this, this, this among others. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:51, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- For future reference, a database profile and two primary sources do not come close to meeting GNG. JTtheOG (talk) 18:59, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as per JTtheOG, can't see any thorough coverage of this person. David Palmer aka cloventt (talk) 02:14, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep This is a young player at the beginning of his career and he is playing regularly for the Blues now. There are already more sources available about this player than used for this stub and it is foreseeable that there will be more written about him in the future. Ruggalicious (talk) 23:26, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- @Ruggalicious: Which sources did you find? JTtheOG (talk) 03:29, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Star Mississippi 01:41, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reinhardt Erwee

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. Pretty much all trivial mentions. JTtheOG (talk) 23:29, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Fair amount of coverage, but not sure any of it suggests a WP:GNG pass. No suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:47, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom lacks indepth coverage fails WP:GNG.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 15:01, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. ✗plicit 01:19, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jacques Fick

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Poorly sourced rugby BLP; subject made one pro appearance. Having a hard time finding the necessary sourcing to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 23:23, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Looks to fail WP:GNG. No suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:46, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Star Mississippi 01:49, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hwang Myong-chol

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Article fails WP:GNG. Simione001 (talk) 23:17, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:32, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 04:05, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, No sources. Samoht27 (talk) 20:03, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete no sources, fails WP:GNG, etc. Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 10:35, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:55, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Shaun Squires

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Rugby BLP that fails WP:GNG. I am unable to find much of anything approaching WP:SIGCOV. Best thing that came up was three sentences here. JTtheOG (talk) 23:17, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Undecided: Career lasted for quite a few years, got potential for expansion, but currently not sourced enough to remain on mainspace. Mn1548 (talk) 12:58, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:SPORTBASIC, no significant coverage. J Mo 101 (talk) 17:35, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Star Mississippi 01:50, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Choe Mi-gyong

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Article fails WP:GNG. Simione001 (talk) 23:14, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete as I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. All that came up were trivial mentions (1, 2, etc.) JTtheOG (talk) 23:25, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:31, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 04:06, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 10:35, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 06:00, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sebra Yen

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Fails WP:NSKATE; ineligible for PROD. Bgsu98 (Talk) 22:30, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per the lack of significant coverage in reliable sources. I did not find significant coverage in reliable sources in my searches for sources. There is a passing mention here in The Washington Post, which says, "ICE SKATING EXHIBITION Friday 6:30 to 7. Champion ice skater Sebra Yen performs. Reston Town Center Pavilion, 1818 Discovery St., Reston. 703-709-6300. Free."
Sebra Yen (simplified Chinese: 颜少博; traditional Chinese: 顔少博; pinyin: Yán Shǎobó) does not meet Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline and Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Basic criteria.
Cunard (talk) 01:12, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete fails WP:NSKATE and WP:GNG.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 04:47, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep‎. (non-admin closure) Desertarun (talk) 19:09, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Matt Iacopelli

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fails WP:GNG Joeykai (talk) 19:00, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment: American Hockey League player - you don't get much higher than that within ice hockey. Probably the third best league in the world. The nomination is not the third best in the world, though, it consists of a single word (plus one capital-letter abbreviation) which doesn't cast any light on the state of the article or its sourcing. Geschichte (talk) 21:12, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - I am finding coverage, as might be expected for a USHL First Team All Star, even if his pro career hasn't amounted to much. Rlendog (talk) 15:45, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Rlendog. The Kip 17:52, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per expansion, and per the nomination rationale, which is unfulfilling to put it that way. Geschichte (talk) 20:48, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per Rlendog, expanding, and doesn't seem to fail GNG Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 10:26, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep now it's been expanded easily shows hey pass WP:GNG KylieTastic (talk) 13:01, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Star Mississippi 02:18, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Atta Soja

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Does not pass WP:NBOX or GNG. Sources are database entries, press release with the same images, paid articles posted without bylines etc., Jeraxmoira🐉 (talk) 09:12, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Fails to meet WP:NBOX, WP:ANYBIO, or any other notability criteria. Wanting to be a champion is hardly unique or notable and notability isn't inherited from your coach or who you train with. He's not even mentioned in some of the references. Papaursa (talk) 12:51, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom fails WP:NBOX and WP:GNG.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 15:23, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect‎ to Sindh Premier League. (non-admin closure) The Herald (Benison) (talk) 05:41, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

2024 Sindh Premier League

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Fails WP:GNG, WP:NEVENT. The tournament doesn't have official status with no lasting effect. Robo^Cric Let's chat 05:41, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to Sindh Premier League Not enough coverage for separate season article. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 09:30, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Sindh Premier League Not enough coverage on its own.Hkkingg (talk) 15:50, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Tyler Lawlor

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WP:BLP of a sports figure, not properly sourced as passing inclusion criteria for sportspeople. To be fair, at the time this was first created, Wikipedia had a consensus that simple presence at the Olympics was an automatic inclusion lock regardless of medal placement or sourcing issues -- but that's long since been deprecated, and a non-medalist now has to be shown to pass WP:GNG on their sourceability.
But a WP:BEFORE search turned up very little that could be used to salvage the article: apart from Olympic results reporting itself, I largely just get glancing namechecks of his existence and local high-school-athlete coverage rather than coverage that's substantively about him in any notability-building sense. I've further been completely unable to verify this article's claim that he was born in Sudbury — even the database entry present here as the article's sole source fails to claim that, and his local high-school-athlete coverage is found in Ottawa, not Sudbury. (And yes, I get that it's possible for people to be born in one place and then move to another, but we still need to be able to verify claims about a person's birthplace.)
Finishing ninth in an Olympic event just isn't "inherently" notable enough anymore to exempt him from ever having to have more reliable source coverage than I've been able to find. Bearcat (talk) 19:03, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: Besides raising chickens in his backyard [3] -and it might not even be this person- nothing for notability. Aylmer is near Ottawa. Oaktree b (talk) 20:03, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep. @Oaktree b and Bearcat: Passes GNG, see coverage at newspapers.com: Ottawa Citizen feature (p2), more Ottawa Citizen, Harbor City Star, and The Standard. BeanieFan11 (talk) 20:25, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Ottawa Citizen is the local hometown coverage I mentioned in my nomination statement, the St. Cat's Standard is just a short blurb that nominally verifies a fact but is not long enough to imbue said fact with any notability points, and the Harbour City Star hit is literally just an advertorial to sell aquatic sport clothing that Tyler Lawlor is modelling, not an article about Tyler Lawlor doing anything noteworthy. So the Ottawa Citizen is still all we've actually got for GNG-worthy coverage, and that's still "local guy" coverage in his hometown newspaper (i.e. not enough if it's all he's got). Bearcat (talk) 20:48, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Ottawa Citizen is one of the largest newspapers in Canada, and as such should be given the full weight of a normal significant source (esp. considering that locality of coverage is irrelevant). The Harbour City Star piece: yes, it is about a business of Lawlor's, but it seems to be written by a valid journalist by a valid company (Southam Newspapers, owned by Postmedia Network) – it seems to have enough details on him IMO to be categorized as covering him "directly and in detail, so that no original research is needed to extract the content" – as far as I'm aware a source does not need to cover someone for them doing something one subjectively things is "noteworthy" to be considered significant. BeanieFan11 (talk) 21:07, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nobody dismissed the Ottawa Citizen on size grounds, but all newspapers can still cover local residents in local-interest contexts that don't necessarily clinch nationalized or internationalized notability in and of themselves for a person who has virtually nothing wider than just their hometown. For instance, a restaurant owner in Byward Market is not going to clear GNG just because a restaurant critic reviewed his restaurant in the Citizen, a local artist winning a local arts award from the SAW Gallery isn't going to clear NARTIST standards on that basis alone, and on and so forth. Even The New York Times features coverage of local people in local-interest contexts that don't establish permanent national or international notability all by themselves just because their local coverage came from The New York Times instead of the Palookaville Herald, because GNG does take into account the context of what the person is getting covered for and not just the raw number of hits that exist. Bearcat (talk) 01:57, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's still only one source, I don't see quite enough for GNG or any sport notability as being met. I don't think we have notability, still a !delete for me. Oaktree b (talk) 16:10, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Oaktree b and @Bearcat, there were actually four newspaper sources provided, not just one. Remember that a person does not need to be the sole subject (or even a primary subject) of a work for it to satisfy WP:GNG. I also disagree that "local" coverage is any less legitimate than national coverage in these papers, because their audience is the same, i.e. all Times subscribers will read it even if the subject is a New Yorker. For your specific examples (Byward Market restaurant owner, SAW Gallery award winner) – do you have specific examples of these types of subjects having articles deleted by community consensus? --Habst (talk) 14:47, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's not a question of the geographic range of a newspaper's readership, it's a question of the context in which the coverage is being given. There have been literally thousands of articles taken to AFD and deleted on the grounds that having a couple of hits of local coverage was not in and of itself enough to overcome the person's lack of a nationalized or internationalized notability claim — high school athletes (e.g. Marquis Fleming), local artists (Laura BenAmots), mayors (Cathy Heron) or municipal councillors (Corky Boozé) or unelected candidates for office (Tiffany Ford), people whose sole claim of notability was winning a minor award of exclusively local significance (Bob Frantz), restaurateurs (Emilio Vitolo) and on and so forth.
Again, I didn't say that local coverage is entirely inadmissible for use — but having a couple of hits of local coverage isn't enough all by itself to overcome not passing WP:NSPORT. And I already addressed above why the St. Catharines Standard (a short blurb) and Harbour City Star (a fashion advertorial in which he's present as a model and not as the subject of discussion) aren't helping. Bearcat (talk) 15:19, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Bearcat, thanks, I am interested in seeing at least one of the thousands of examples. Of the ones you linked,

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Marquis Fleming: Only one source was provided actually mentioning the subject by name, more are provided in this AfD.
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Laura BenAmots: No source links provided, not able to find any doing a web search either.
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cathy Heron: Only one link provided, five are provided here.
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Corky Boozé: Subject is a U.S. politician, and Wikipedia articles involving post-1992 U.S. politics have higher quality standards than those for sportspeople. Despite this, only two different newspaper sources were provided (plus one dead link), while this AfD has three different publications cited above.
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tiffany Ford: Again a politician, and no source links were provided.
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bob Frantz: Only one source link provided and it's a dead link.
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Emilio Vitolo: No source links provided.

Based on this, it seems like it is very rare, if it has ever happened, that an article with as much coverage provided here has ever been deleted. I have an open mind, but I haven't been able to find any examples. Thanks, --Habst (talk) 18:43, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's not the number of links that are or aren't listed in the AFD discussion that matters, it's the number of sources that were or weren't present in the article that matters. They're all articles that cited a handful of local-interest coverage, which was deemed not sufficient in and of itself to exempt them from having to clear the defined SNGs for their occupations just because the articles had a bit of local-interest coverage in them. The rules for notability of people always work the same way no matter what occupation they were in: either they have an "inherent" notability claim that meets a defined notability criterion for their occupation, or they have a depth and range and volume of coverage that marks them out as a special case of significantly greater notability than the norm among all the other people in the same occupation who have failed to meet the "inherent" notability criteria. Local politicians do not get articles just because they have a couple of hits of local coverage; local restaurateurs do not get articles just because they have a couple of hits of local coverage; athletes who haven't otherwise passed NSPORTS do not get articles just because they have a couple of hits of local coverage; and that always works the same way across all occupations. Bearcat (talk) 18:54, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Bearcat, I understand the distinction you are making, but it is one without a difference with respect to this discussion, because if we don't have the links to the actual sources, then we can't say that those articles were more well-sourced than this one.

> Local politicians do not get articles just because they have a couple of hits of local coverage; local restaurateurs do not get articles just because they have a couple of hits of local coverage; athletes who haven't otherwise passed NSPORTS do not get articles just because they have a couple of hits of local coverage

^ The above is what I'm looking for even one example of. All of the above AfDs linked have less available sources than this article, regardless of profession, so I don't think they are analogous. Until I find any evidence otherwise, I would have to disagree with the quoted text. --Habst (talk) 18:59, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Per BeanieFan11. Themanwithnowifi (talk) 06:56, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per provided sources establishing WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. See my reply above to address nominator concerns. --Habst (talk) 14:48, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Subject lacks the needed WP:SIGCOV to meet the WP:GNG. The current sources read like local people doing local things of [[WP:ROTM]. Let'srun (talk) 01:09, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per nom Okmrman (talk) 04:31, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Above !vote comes from an editor indefinitely blocked for AFD disruption. BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:49, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 09:35, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nino Kochlamazashvili

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Poorly sourced footballer BLP that fails WP:GNG. All that comes up are trivial mentions. JTtheOG (talk) 18:57, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 10:48, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – Per nom. Svartner (talk) 16:47, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 09:35, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jonathan Soares

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Rugby BLP that fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. Ineligible for PROD. JTtheOG (talk) 18:53, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: Amature player with minimal coverage. Mn1548 (talk) 12:55, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:SPORTSCRIT. LibStar (talk) 08:11, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Zinedine Booysen

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I am unable to find sufficient in-depth coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. The best sources I found were two sentences of coverage here and four-ish sentences of coverage here. JTtheOG (talk) 18:47, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak keep I think with the sources found and a few other bits in a search, it's close to a WP:GNG pass. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 09:22, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. A few independent-ish sentences interspersed within an interview are not enough for SPORTCRIT or GNG. JoelleJay (talk) 21:52, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment: Since this article is verifiable per sources that the player exist and has appeared in few sources though not ready for WP:SPORTSCRIT, Why not redirect to Free State Cheetahs#Current squad. This will better save the total deletion of this game/sports I don't know much about but have seen many of the articles being deleted. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 05:41, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Courtesy pinging to @JTtheOG, @Rugbyfan22, @JoelleJay, and @Okmrman for the above comment. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 05:43, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not a fan of redirecting to current squads, as he could well not be in the next squad (I think his contract has just expired also). Realistically with the change in guidelines we need lists for teams like this, but I don't see there being the interest (given there's only a handful of rugby union editors left) in creating them, given the time required to do so. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:14, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We can't redirect to the current squad since that will change. I think if everyone here agrees that there isn't GNG-level coverage of the subject, and no suitable redirect, then deletion is the only option. It's not like any info is being lost that wouldn't be recoverable from the current squad page history (i.e. that he was on the team in a particular year). JoelleJay (talk) 01:53, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 09:36, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Harry Bardle

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Poorly sourced rugby BLP; subject made one pro appearance. All I really found was this transactional announcement. Fails WP:GNG. JTtheOG (talk) 18:36, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Fails WP:SPORTBASIC. J Mo 101 (talk) 10:11, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: One app doesn't make you notable for a stand alone article. Mn1548 (talk) 12:55, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per non. Non-notable. Contributor892z (talk) 19:20, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 09:37, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Franco Vermeulen

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Rugby BLP that fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. I am unable to find anything approaching WP:SIGCOV. JTtheOG (talk) 18:30, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: Amature player with minimal coverage. Mn1548 (talk) 12:54, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus‎. This has already gotten relisted twice to generate more discussion and clear consensus. No discussion has been generated. Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 19:00, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Stuart Bell (figure skater)

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Fails WP:NSKATE; ineligible for PROD. Bgsu98 (Talk) 15:43, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 21:44, 18 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Connor Lunn

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fails WP:GNG Joeykai (talk) 14:21, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep Subject meets the WP:GNG with sources such as [[4]] and [[5]]Let'srun (talk) 16:09, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: The first source explained above is the better one, the second is only a brief profile. I don't find anything we'd use, mostly statistics on various sites. Oaktree b (talk) 23:53, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, we require in-depth coverage for the general notability guidelines, all we have for Connor Lunn is some statistics. -Samoht27 (talk) 17:48, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep‎. There is disagreement over whether GNG can be demonstrated by sources but a clear consensus that this article should be Kept. I don't see any value in relisting with this clear of a consensus. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:16, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Robert Glen

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The only reference for this stub biography of a footballer is a database entry, so this stub no longer satisfies sports notability and does not satisfy general notability. Draftification will provide six months to find significant coverage.

Draftify as nominator. Robert McClenon (talk) 01:09, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Comment: while I am aware of the changed notability criteria, seems a bit odd to go straight to AfD for a subject like this where the article already existed for some years under the old rules, would it not be more appropriate to tag for verification first, then move up from that if not acted on? It seems very likely this player will appear in the British Newspaper Archive and there are far more 'deserving' nominations from this era than an international player and cup winner? I have added refs that indicate his prominence, but appreciate they would not satisfy SIGCOV. Crowsus (talk) 02:21, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Absurd nomination. This player represented his country and won national competitions. If that doesn't satisfy notability then this place is a complete waste of time. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 04:20, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Keep - clearly notable. 200 professional appearances in England and Scotland, a Scotland international, there is coverage out there including in Paul Smith's book about Scotland players - silly nomination. Good work by Crowsus and JM on expanding. Giant Snowman 09:35, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Again the Keeps make n:football arguments despite it being abolished in 2022. I struggled to find coverage of him let alone significant coverage. The book is one source (if that) meaning he fails GNG. Dougal18 (talk) 11:15, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"I struggle to find coverage of him" - apart from the 13 refs in the article? Do you really think that a player with 200 professional appearances in 1890s/1900s will not have been mentioned in any newspapers that (shockingly!) don't appear online 130 years later? We have lost all WP:COMMONSENSE if this article is deleted. Giant Snowman 21:00, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You mean the refs to stat websites? The refs to mentions in match reports? All of which don't count when it comes to passing GNG. Mentions in newspapers is irrelevant as it is sigcov that is required. Dougal18 (talk) 09:12, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Two books about the history of Hibernian FC describing Glen's career and playing style isn't significant coverage? Come off it. You just don't like articles about footballers. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 10:48, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Hibees has 13 hits for Glen. The making of Hibernian has one hit. Those are not sigcov. Dougal18 (talk) 13:24, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Coverage in four published books isn't significant coverage? I'm wondering what you would consider that to be. A book about the player himself?!? Demanding that level of coverage would lead to the deletion of the vast majority of biographies on this site. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 16:14, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Good to know that a few sentences in a few books is now significant coverage. "Left back Bobby Glen from Renton had several international honours. Strong and clever, he was a favourite of the supporters and was recently at the top of his form." If that is sigcov then GNG should be scrapped. Dougal18 (talk) 12:34, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - I would strongly agree with User:GiantSnowman's and User:Jmorrison230582's points. I think it would be odd for us not to have an article about a Scotland international who clearly is covered in published sources. Dunarc (talk) 22:51, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The article has been updated, clearly notable player, easily passes WP:GNG. Govvy (talk) 12:52, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep – The Paul Smith's book It already seemed to be enough for WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 16:40, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Passes WP:GNG, also has fine sources that attribute significant coverage. Noorullah (talk) 19:40, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Responding to Jmorrison230582, the article didn't say that his team won national competitions when I nominated it for deletion, and the nomination was not absurd. Govvy is correct that the article has been updated. Robert McClenon (talk) 20:22, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Perhaps I should have said that the Heymann criterion was to provide significant coverage in seven days, but perhaps that should be implied. Robert McClenon (talk) 20:22, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 00:18, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hwang Jin-hyok

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Article fails WP:GNG. Simione001 (talk) 23:14, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 09:34, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 04:11, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 00:18, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kenji Tohira

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A Japanese racing driver. Page fails WP:SPORTCRIT and WP:GNG. Doesn't have much beyond when he was born and died, and some scores. BlakeIsHereStudios (talk | contributions) 18:48, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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~~Delete~~ ~~for lack of viable press and statistical content other than subject's death. Ernesto Wong, another recently deceased sports figure, nominated for the same reasons.~~ Changing to Keep after digging up of sources. 💥Casualty ^{• Hop along. •} 21:21, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: The page on Japanese Wikipedia appears to be more in depth and has more sources than the page here currently has. I was initially going to withdraw this nomination but I think even with those sources the page still doesn't qualify for WP:SPORTCRIT or WP:GNG. Duke of New Gwynedd (talk | contrib.) 18:02, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Is dailysportscar a good source? If you take his name in Japanese and search for it in Google Books and Google News a bunch of results pop up. Dude was born in 1941 so there is probably more coverage of him on paper than digitally. as-web.jp is also a good in-depth source. Polygnotus (talk) 19:12, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep good sources on the Japanese article as noted above. Also [6] Odd that this was nominated the day after his death, but from his obituary in Chunichi Shimbun: "1960年代後半から高橋国光さんらとビッグレースに参戦。スカイライン2000GT－Rで通算4勝を挙げ、フェアレディ240Zで日本グランプリを連覇（71、72年）。90年代にはN1耐久シリーズや全日本GT選手権にも参戦した。" Lots of other obituaries in outlets in Japan (from what I can dig up on noticeboards, it appears obituaries in national publications count towards notability?) including this particularly indepth one. Here's a piece from 芸文社 [ja] discussing his car in the 80s. It appears there's a feature on him in the 2022 issue of RacingOn magazine. Another piece from 2019. Agree with Polygnotus that there's likely a lot of coverage that has not been digitized since Japan is only now partially undergoing digital transformation. DCsansei (talk) 10:27, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep refs look good to me. Desertarun (talk) 19:22, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 00:21, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per DCsansei. What's with the trend of nominating long retired Japanese race car drivers, less well known in the west. This is now the third I have to put my vote in. Japanese Wikipedia shows that he has a well accomplished career being the 1994 Super Taikyu champion. A database listing on JAF will prove this otherwise, thus passing WP:NMOTORSPORT. SpacedFarmer (talk) 17:42, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
additional comment: IIRC, he was one of the works Skyline GT-R racers of the early 1970s (though not as notable as Takahashi, Hasemi and Kurosawa), thus he is bound to be notable by that association. Additionally, he is known for being one of those in Nissan's celebrated 50 consecutive race wins (by C10 Skyline GT-R) they like to promote. Thus, this is another. SpacedFarmer (talk) 12:25, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:38, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Aidan Burrell

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Poorly sourced rugby BLP; subject made one pro appearance. I found a couple sentences of coverage here and not much else. Fails WP:GNG. JTtheOG (talk) 19:02, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: Played one match, not notable. Mn1548 (talk) 11:48, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: this source says that he left Hull to pursue a full time job which implies his rugby career is concluded and we shouldn't expect any further coverage that would bring him up to a notability threshold. -- D'n'B-t -- 12:49, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:SPORTSCRIT. LibStar (talk) 01:42, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, sources and accomplishments are not enough to write a biography about him. Geschichte (talk) 10:15, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as failing SPORTSCRIT, not enough sources or accomplishments Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 12:32, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete lacks indepth coverage.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 23:04, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:41, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oupa Mthiyane

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. Note that he is more commonly known by Mandisi Mthiyane, which seems to be his legal name. JTtheOG (talk) 18:44, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Career has never really kicked on to show WP:GNG coverage. No suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 19:21, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom fails WP:GNG.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 23:05, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:42, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Paschal Ekeji

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. The most I found was a few sentences of coverage here. JTtheOG (talk) 18:36, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Few bits that look close to being WP:GNG relevant, but not really enough. No suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 19:20, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Owen× ☎ 23:21, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Vilma Abrahamsson

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fails WP:GNG Joeykai (talk) 11:37, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: Fails WP:SPORTCRIT. BlakeIsHereStudios (talk | contributions) 16:01, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject to meet GNG or SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 19:06, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete – Fails in WP:GNG. Svartner (talk) 01:35, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 09:31, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – Any coverage I find looking in the local paper is just match reports or very short statements on her injuries. Fails WP:NBIO and WP:SPORTCRIT. AlexandraAVX (talk) 08:05, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as failing GNG, SPORTCRIT, NBIO, etc. Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 12:46, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 19:46, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Siviwe Mpondo

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Rugby BLP that fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. I am unable to find anything approaching WP:SIGCOV. Article was previously nominated in a WP:BUNDLE, which was closed as a procedural keep. JTtheOG (talk) 19:24, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: Amature player with minimal coverage. Mn1548 (talk) 13:04, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom, no evidence of notability. Fails to meet any of WP:SIGCOV, WP:SPORTBASIC or WP:GNG. Contributor892z (talk) 19:39, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:SPORTSCRIT. LibStar (talk) 00:04, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom as non-notable Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 12:57, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Daniel (talk) 22:14, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sipho Nofemele

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. I searched using both Sipho and Siphosenkosi as his first name. JTtheOG (talk) 19:20, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Reasonable amount of coverage, but nothing suggesting a WP:GNG pass. No suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 19:18, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Daniel (talk) 22:15, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Teunis Nieuwoudt

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. I found lots of trivial mentions, especially from 2015 to 2018, but nothing substantial. JTtheOG (talk) 19:03, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Lots of mentions, but nothing really concrete for a WP:GNG pass. No suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 19:17, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Daniel (talk) 22:16, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Indrė Venskevičiūtė

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I am unable to find sufficient in-depth coverage of the subject, a Lithuanian women's footballer, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 18:58, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 09:55, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep‎. (non-admin closure) The Herald (Benison) (talk) 17:06, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Loren Galler-Rabinowitz

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Fails WP:NSKATE. As for the rest, I don’t know whether she meets the criteria for notability. Bgsu98 (Talk) 16:49, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak keep, very weak. The sports hall of fame induction seems to be the best, the Buffalo newspaper article is fine. Coming in fourth, then third at the national championships for ice dancing is barely at notability, but we have enough confirmation of these. The medical career is routine, but just barely notable for the athletic portion. Oaktree b (talk) 19:59, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: This helps too [7]. Oaktree b (talk) 20:00, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Oaktree, passes BASIC. Another source to add is Forward. Hameltion (talk | contribs) 21:51, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. ✗plicit 13:20, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tristan Cousins

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Fails WP:NSKATE; everything else seems to lack any notability. Bgsu98 (Talk) 14:30, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:34, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Darcy Breen

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Rugby BLP that fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT as far as I can tell. The closest thing to WP:SIGCOV that I found was this transactional announcement. JTtheOG (talk) 21:57, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Career never really kicked on to bring extended coverage, so not really enough to pass WP:GNG here. No suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:50, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:SPORTSCRIT. Only 1 game for Waratahs. LibStar (talk) 03:13, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect‎ to 2021 Men's Rugby League World Cup squads#Lebanon. !Keep votes aren't based in policy, but no case made for why this doesn't work as an ATD Star Mississippi 18:12, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Khalil Rahme

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, an Australian rugby league player, to meet WP:GNG. Participation-based SNGs were deprecated in 2022 and BLPs require strong sourcing. JTtheOG (talk) 20:55, 24 April 2024 (UTC) I am changing my recommendation to a redirect to 2021 Men's Rugby League World Cup squads#Lebanon. JTtheOG (talk) 01:46, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: World Cup quarter finalist, several references (though more needed), suggesting player has had/having a career in Australia's first and second tier. Article needs expansion. Mn1548 (talk) 16:20, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Played at the RLWC, nine sources, every line sourced.Fleets (talk) 16:46, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Any WP:SIGCOV? JTtheOG (talk) 22:56, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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redirect to 2021 Men's Rugby League World Cup squads#Lebanon. LibStar (talk) 01:39, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisting comment: Keep or redirect?
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Keep - Per above Prodrummer619 (talk) 18:09, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Any SIGCOV? JTtheOG (talk) 18:19, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:35, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mitchell Mamary

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, an Australian rugby league player, to meet WP:GNG. Participation-based SNGs were deprecated in 2022 and BLPs require strong sourcing. JTtheOG (talk) 20:49, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: Though he his semi pro with international caps, references given don't appear to suggest his career is notable, thus finding refs is unlikely. Mn1548 (talk) 16:23, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The zealous moves to purge sportspeople whilst other more civilized pursuits skate by with achievement based criteria. Nom fails to explain why deletion is necessary when alternatives exist such as a Redirect to the appropriate section of 2017 Rugby League World Cup squads. duffbeerforme (talk) 23:47, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Sourcing does not establish notability. Nothing found on Google either. GMH Melbourne (talk) 14:28, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete doesn't appear to have a notable established career in first grade, regardless of international appearances. LibStar (talk) 02:25, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:35, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Christo Joubert

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Rugby BLP that fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. I am having a hard time finding anything approaching WP:SIGCOV. JTtheOG (talk) 20:28, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: Amature player with minimal coverage. Mn1548 (talk) 16:15, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:SPORTSCRIT. LibStar (talk) 03:33, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:36, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Stevie Meyer

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Rugby BLP that fails WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. I am unable to find anything approaching WP:SIGCOV. JTtheOG (talk) 20:00, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: Amature player with minimal coverage. Mn1548 (talk) 16:15, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:SPORTCRIT. LibStar (talk) 00:48, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 00:34, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Rumen Shankulov

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This article doesn't meet the notability guidelines set down in WP:SPORTCRIT Kingsmasher678 (talk) 13:34, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, submitted by accident this before I was finished writing the reasons. There are no sources outside of trivial stat listings, which are not considered a contribution to notability. Kingsmasher678 (talk) 13:37, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:27, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Going by the player's career, I could see some notability. They had a good season in the Bulgarian first tier with Cherno More Varna, two good seasons abroad with Israeli second-tier club Hapoel Rishon LeZion and three in Cyprus with second-tier side Omonia Aradippou. A web search, however, did find anything close to WP:SIGCOV. Perhaps we'd need to search using a different spelling of their name, for example in his native Cyrillic or in Hebrew (for his time in Israel)? Robby.is.on (talk) 16:36, 27 April 2024 (UTC) ; edited 21:27, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete if no significant coverage can be found. With no prejudice to recreation if someone is eventually able to find sources. (t · c) buidhe 03:09, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Sandstein 19:42, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Slavcho Boychev

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Per WP:NSPORT, the existence of stat pages is not enough to prove notability. There are no other sources referenced, and nothing shows up in a search for news articles or other sourceable media. This article clearly doesn't meet the notability requirements. Kingsmasher678 (talk) 14:36, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:28, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Seems like he went on to have a political career. JTtheOG (talk) 22:01, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:50, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Stoyan Todorov

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Does not meet the notability standards in WP:NSPORT. In addition, no non-trivial sources are provided, and I could not find any. Kingsmasher678 (talk) 14:48, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 18:28, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - found nothing better than Gong 1 and Gong 2 Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 12:21, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus‎. Star Mississippi 18:14, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Robert McGee

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I'm usually sympathetic to pages on perpetual students but I couldn't find enough reliable sources for this person besides that he got a bunch of degrees and is a professor. HadesTTW (he/him • talk) 18:57, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: Interesting human interest story and I'm amazed he hasn't been featured in NPR or something... I don't see anything we'd use, no news coverage, nothing, for sourcing. Oaktree b (talk) 00:12, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Other than mentions of his degrees and being a professor, I cannot find anything to convince GNG.-- Tumbuka Arch (talk) 11:33, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Independent sigcov appears in the Fayetteville Observer (more, book review) and Miami Herald (cont., later). His Google Scholar may suggest an NPROF pass too but I don't know the field well enough. Hameltion (talk | contribs) 14:49, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep -- I think the multiple sources with SIGCOV provided by Hameltion are enough for a GNG pass. JTtheOG (talk) 02:24, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep per GNG and per WP:NPROF#1 based on his GS profile, he seems to be highly cited for his field in ethics/philosophy. Also there is enough evidence for a GNG pass.--hroest 07:37, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Hey man im josh (talk) 19:23, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. As well as the case for WP:PROF#C1 we also have a case for WP:AUTHOR through multiple published reviews of his books [8] [9] [10] [11]. Each case is borderline but I think together they're enough. —David Eppstein (talk) 07:01, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Heavy self-citation makes WP:PROF#C1 unusable. The subject overwhelmingly cites himself, never seen this before. See my comment below. Lekkha Moun (talk) 17:39, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Keep Passes GNG. Easily searchable on google and has a myriad of academic articles. BlackAmerican (talk) 08:08, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment that this article was previously AFD'd under another name. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Robert W. McGee BlackAmerican (talk) 08:08, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I am considering this article strongly in favour of deletion. In 2022, the article was deleted (AFD#1 Robert W. McGee) and recreated under Robert McGee. The AFD#1 Robert W. McGee is a very interesting read where the subject joined in, seemingly WP:BLUDGEONING in order to justify his article. In terms of martial arts, he has accomplishments to be proud of but nothing to show WP notability, his martial arts championships are in senior age (limited participant divisions). Unverified claims such as "1020 medals" looks like Self promotion/vanity page. I also have a huge problem almost all the citations in the article. Citations such as "AT 72, ROBERT W. MCGEE IS JUST GETTING STARTED" published by Union Institute & University where the subject earned his PHD is absolutely non-independent and unreliable. As another user mentioned, (and I verified) if you look up the work of the subject called “The ethics of tax evasion: Perspectives in theory and practice” the majority of the citations in this work are self-citations from the subject other work. Another of his work “Why people evade taxes in Armenia: A look at an ethical issue based on a summary of interviews”, we noticed self-citation rate of around 80%. Most of the sources are from his own works/self-published. It’s quite concerning. Heavy self-citation technically makes citations WP:PROF#C1 unusable. Lekkha Moun (talk) 17:35, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe that reduces the case for #C1 notability, but your rant about how all of the other stuff he did is uninteresting does nothing to address the case for WP:AUTHOR notability, and the multiple published reviews by other people of his books. Let me spell that out: we have multiple in-depth sources about his work, independent of that work and reliably published. That also passes WP:GNG. —David Eppstein (talk) 17:43, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I believe article would need an entire rewrite if we base the notability off this criteria (WP:AUTHOR), as barely one sentence mentions his authorship. As for the reviews you mentioned, as you said, I find them borderline and not very compelling. I may be wrong, but I'm not at all convinced of the subject's notability as an author based on WP:AUTHOR, but I would be happy to change my vote if more info is brought forward to strengthen the case for WP:AUTHOR. Edit: I noticed your "Delete" vote on the Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Robert W. McGee. I still see evident self promotion as you mentioned and I still don't see great coverage to meet GNG. I am wondering what made you change your mind? Lekkha Moun (talk) 19:18, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Clearly, I didn't find the books and their reviews during the previous AfD. So now I have new evidence for notability that I didn't have earlier. —David Eppstein (talk) 17:49, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Editors are still split between keeping and deleting...
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris ^talk! 03:43, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep. The article poorly describes his notability under WP:AUTHOR at present, and does need a significant rewrite to the Career section. But David Eppstein has convinced me that he does indeed meet that criterion. Qflib (talk) 18:11, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Sandstein 19:57, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tiger Reth

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Not yet notable per WP:NACTOR or WP:NSPORT, all film roles appear to have been minor roles so far. He's been in teams of several performers at the openings of national sports events, but this doesn't bring him over the line for WP:GNG or WP:BIO. Couldn't find any significant secondary coverage of him in English or Khmer, just passing mentions and social media. Declined three times at draft. Wikishovel (talk) 15:17, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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hello sir Tiger Reth he is an actor, martial artist he play his role around more than 10 film the international film has 2 ( First they kill my father and jailbreak ) and now he is filming upcoming international film in cambodia( Phnom Penh Ground Zero ), You can check film list in tiger reth page wikipedia.

Thank You. Songha Mao (talk) 07:05, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

— Songha_Mao (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. Papaursa (talk) 01:30, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete There is no indication of WP notability. He has no major acting roles that would meet WP:NACTOR, no martial arts accomplishments that would meet WP:MANOTE, and lacks the coverage to meet WP:GNG. Database entries, passing mentions, and being part of large performances at Cambodian athletic events (although not a competitor), fail to show significant independent coverage. Papaursa (talk) 01:30, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:16, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jang Kyong-il

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Article fails WP:GNG. Simione001 (talk) 03:43, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 20:13, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete A few databases online, but nothing else to suggest GNG, delete per nom. Govvy (talk) 21:29, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Nothing here. Per nom. Anwegmann (talk) 23:01, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Subject does not meet the WP:GNG due to a lack of WP:SIGCOV. Tumbuka Arch (talk) 11:45, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:GNG, also doesn't meet Wikipedia:Notability (sports). Noorullah (talk) 05:46, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:15, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hwang Hak-sun

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Article fails WP:GNG. Simione001 (talk) 03:40, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 20:13, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Nothing on the Japanese article, the guy is Japanese not Korean, but other than that error, I don't see GNG here. Govvy (talk) 21:27, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – Per above. Svartner (talk) 22:34, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I did a quick Google search and couldnt find anything to construct WP:GNG. Tumbuka Arch (talk) 11:47, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect‎ to List of Moldova women's international footballers. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 00:56, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Liuba Dragomir

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Redirect to List of Moldova women's international footballers as I am unable to find sufficient coverage to meet WP:GNG. JTtheOG (talk) 02:33, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Support redirect Traumnovelle (talk) 02:42, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect as above. Giant Snowman 20:14, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect – Per nom. Svartner (talk) 22:29, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to List of Moldova women's international footballers due to subject's lack of WP:GNG. Tumbuka Arch (talk) 11:49, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect‎ to List of Azerbaijan women's international footballers. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:21, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tunzala Suleymanova

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Redirect to List of Azerbaijan women's international footballers as I am unable to find enough coverage to meet WP:GNG. All I found was this interview, where she claims to have retired at age 23 or 24. JTtheOG (talk) 23:42, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect as above. Giant Snowman 20:14, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect – Per nom. Svartner (talk) 22:33, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect per nom. Anwegmann (talk) 23:00, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect As nominated by JTtheOG. Chekidalum (talk) 11:24, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:17, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Linda Thwala

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. All I found were transactional announcements (1, 2). JTtheOG (talk) 21:50, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Looks to fail WP:GNG. No suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:34, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus‎. Star Mississippi 00:24, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ernesto Wong

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Fails WP:GNG. Non-notable baseball career with no statistics, and no coverage outside playing city (Turin). 💥Casualty ^{• Hop along. •} 19:52, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak keep the obituaries were published by several news outlets: TorinoToday, Repubblica, RaiNews, La Stampa, Corriere. It seems enough to justify GNG, but I found very little pre-death coverage. Broc (talk) 06:36, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Sources above basically parrot each other in eulogizing him and mentioning that a relative plays for the Texas Rangers. There's nothing about Wong's career while he never played in a top-flight league. It's not enough to even establish WP:SPORTCRIT. 💥Casualty ^{• Hop along. •} 21:40, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 02:47, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: We really need some more opinions here.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:50, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:55, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Johan Fritz

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I am unable to find sufficient in-depth coverage of the subject, a South African rugby league player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 21:05, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:18, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Marcelle Slabbert

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I am unable to find sufficient in-depth coverage of the subject, a South African rugby league player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 20:16, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: Amature player with minimal coverage. Mn1548 (talk) 13:28, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - can't find any decent coverage Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 19:57, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Hey man im josh (talk) 19:28, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

William James Crawford

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Unref article, and I couldn't find sources to show he meets WP:BIO / WP:GNG. Boleyn (talk) 19:18, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 20:13, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I see some of his works online, but I don't see anything to suggest notability. Govvy (talk) 21:23, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – Per above. Svartner (talk) 22:32, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Unreffed, fails WP:BIO. Anwegmann (talk) 23:00, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Unref fails WP:SIGCOV, unless someone can find print sources very quickly. Bearian (talk) 20:05, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. The consensus is the subject fails to meet the WP:GNG guideline for significant coverage -- none has been demonstrated from any source. Additionally, there is some doubt that even the SNG for WP:NMOTORSPORT has been met. The article can be recreated if significant coverage is found or If an editor wants to work on a Draft version of this article, you can contact me or inquire at WP:REFUND. — CactusWriter ^(talk) 16:21, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Katsunori Iketani

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fails general notability guideline. current sources in article are databases. search only finds other databases and this, which spells his name 2 different ways...? ltb d l (talk) 07:18, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep Weak because article creator or editors could've done more such as add results rather than leave it a single sentence stub article. Japanese Wikipedia hints that he may was a driver of a national level but like this, does not provide context too. Digging further, looking at his result database on JAF (source), he may as well pass criteria 4 of WP:NMOTORSPORT as he had some sucesses in top level national racing. A selection of highlights in his career as below.

A class win at the 1995 All Japan Grand Touring Car Championship
A top 5 season finish at the 1996 All Japan Grand Touring Car Championship
Throughout that decade, he made consistent appearances.

SpacedFarmer (talk) 10:22, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yet the Japanese article has the same sources as the English one – the article can't be kept on race results alone, there needs to be some independent, substantive coverage. 5225_C (talk • contributions) 02:28, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The whole point of having subject-specific guidelines is that verifying that a subject meets that criteria means that their article is kept. In this case, I agree with SpacedFarmer that he meets criteria 4 of WP:NMOTORSPORT. He also meets criteria 2 since he completed the 1988 season of the World Sportscar Championship (by which point the series was a professional racing series). Therefore, I also !vote keep on this article. DCsansei (talk) 11:15, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No, that is absolutely not the purpose of SNGs (WP:SNG). SNGs are indicators of when a subject is likely to be notable. Articles still need to meet the GNG: if there are no usable sources, there cannot be an article. 5225_C (talk • contributions) 11:23, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

From the guideline you cite: "topics which pass an SNG are presumed to merit an article". Unless you've done a review of Japanese motorsports print coverage from the 80s and 90s, I don't think we've established that "adequate sourcing or significant coverage cannot be found" to overrule the SNG. DCsansei (talk) 11:37, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You don't prove a negative. We're at AfD, it's on the keep !voters to present sources. 5225_C (talk • contributions) 11:42, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We seem to have a different definition of presumed. I define it as meaning that we assume something to be true, meaning that if a subject verifiably passes an SNG, we assume that they merit an article. Per WP:SNG: "The subject-specific notability guidelines generally include verifiable criteria about a topic which show that appropriate sourcing likely exists for that topic" and "topics which pass an SNG are presumed to merit an article, though articles which pass an SNG or the GNG may still be deleted or merged into another article, especially if adequate sourcing or significant coverage cannot be found."

Generally, in a AfD, the onus would be on keep !voters. Given the presumption of notability if a subject passes an SNG, that onus is reversed when that becomes the case per WP:SNG. DCsansei (talk) 12:35, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ok. I can't find any sources whatsoever. Feel free to present evidence to the contrary, but as I cannot be reasonably expected to provide evidence of an absence, we will have to presume that is a fact for now. 5225_C (talk • contributions) 12:50, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

On the contrary, unless you're stating you've comprehensively reviewed print sources from the 80s/90s and were unable to find significant coverage, we'll have to presume that the subject is notable per WP:SNG. DCsansei (talk) 13:05, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed I have. What a tragedy, Iketani's article deleted because nobody could find a source... how could we allow this to happen to somebody so unquestionably notable? 5225_C (talk • contributions) 13:12, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@5225C: Indeed I have – So you speak Japanese and have done in-depth searches in 1980s Japanese racing magazine archives and Japanese newspaper archives? BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:19, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't just speak it, I'm fluent in it, and the check wasn't just in-depth, it was comprehensive. You could prove me wrong, of course, by presenting examples of these sources you speak of. You won't, obviously, because no such sources exist. 5225_C (talk • contributions) 01:52, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@5225C: Could you provide a list of some of the 1980s Japan newspapers / magazines you comprehensively searched, and how you found them? BeanieFan11 (talk) 02:18, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comprehensive means all of them. If you think I've missed something, I'm open to being proven wrong with a few examples of reliable sources. 5225_C (talk • contributions) 15:12, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@5225C: If you looked at every Japanese newspaper in existence, then surely it should be easy to list a few of them that you searched, no? BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:44, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per my comment above that he meets criteria 2 and 4 of WP:NMOTORSPORT. DCsansei (talk) 11:37, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete until non-database sources with significant coverage can be presented. While I am sympathetic to the potential of there being offline, likely Japanese-language sources existing, those of us on enwiki who do not speak Japanese should not be burdened with having to find those sources. Until evidence of those sources existing can be found, what exists is purely database in nature. Nothing exists with which to write encyclopedic content in English or Japanese. The subject does not, with the sources available, meet the WP:GNG. The SNG section also says "Therefore, topics which pass an SNG are presumed to merit an article, though articles which pass an SNG ... may still be deleted ..., especially if adequate sourcing or significant coverage cannot be found...." Wikipedia is not a database. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk) 17:01, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
WP:NOTDATABASE does not cover entries for sportspeople. "those of us on enwiki who do not speak Japanese should not be burdened with having to find those sources." I don't speak Japanese but I don't have much issues with it either, having held subscriptions to some car magazines in the past. Wikipedians write annual pages about sumo wrestling despite most of these sources being in Japanese too. "Until evidence of those sources existing can be found, what exists is purely database in nature. Nothing exists with which to write encyclopedic content in English or Japanese." There are offline books and magazines. So, you are saying we need sources in English language for it to pass notability in English Wikipedia, am I right? SpacedFarmer (talk) 08:17, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
that's insane. the not policy covers everything. ltb d l (talk) 08:40, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This policy is intended for lists, not articles about people. SpacedFarmer (talk) 13:26, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
where on earth did you get that notion? ltb d l (talk) 13:28, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I seen it being used on nominations for lists, this is the first I seen being used against a bio of a person. SpacedFarmer (talk) 12:26, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't speak Japanese but I don't have much issues with it either, having held subscriptions to some car magazines in the past.

huh????

There are offline books and magazines. So, you are saying we need sources in English language for it to pass notability in English Wikipedia, am I right?

that is obviously not what he said. ltb d l (talk) 13:27, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

may be deleted – not absolutely required no matter what. Common sense is a policy, which is at a higher level and should hold more weight than guidelines such as GNG. If someone is presumed notable and no one has done any searches whatsoever in the areas where sources are highly likely to be found (waiting on 5225C for confirmation), then the article should stand. BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:24, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Delete – None of these hypothetical sources exist. It's blatantly obvious that this fails the GNG. SNG are an indication that sources probably exist, they don't make an article immune to challenges on the basis of notability – and, in this case, the corresponding sources have not and will not materialise. 5225_C (talk • contributions) 02:13, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Could you provide an answer to @BeanieFan11's question above listing some of the 1980s offline/Japanese newspapers and magazines you comprehensively reviewed since this AfD started? I think that would be helpful given that you want to overrule Iketani's presumption of notability from meeting multiple SNG criteria? Thanks! DCsansei (talk) 12:09, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
burden is a policy. thanks! ltb d l (talk) 12:21, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Content policy, yes, which isn't relevant since I'm not arguing for anything to be added to an article. I'm simply repeating the question of what 1980s Japan newspapers / magazines were comprehensively searched to overturn the presumption created under the relevant SNG. DCsansei (talk) 12:36, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
you missed my point. the burden is on the person wanting to keep the article to find sources. asking people to search for 1980s japanese newspapers to maybe possibly bring them over to your side is preposterous. ltb d l (talk) 12:40, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
While that's true generally to prove significant coverage under GNG, that's not the case under an SNG. Unless you're contesting that he meets the WP:NMOTORSPORT criteria, there's a presumption of notability unless "adequate sourcing or significant coverage cannot be found".

By definition, a presumption means that the burden has been flipped to those who wish to override the presumption. DCsansei (talk) 12:44, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
From our own article:

In law, a presumption is an "inference of a particular fact". There are two types of presumptions: rebuttable presumptions and irrebuttable (or conclusive) presumptions. A rebuttable presumption will either shift the burden of production (requiring the disadvantaged party to produce some evidence to the contrary) or the burden of proof (requiring the disadvantaged party to show the presumption is wrong); in short, a fact finder can reject a rebuttable presumption based on other evidence. Conversely, a conclusive/irrebuttable presumption cannot be challenged by contradictory facts or evidence. Sometimes, a presumption must be triggered by a predicate fact—that is, the fact must be found before the presumption applies.

Given that SNG create a presumption of notability, the burden has flipped. DCsansei (talk) 12:46, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's not how any of that works. The GNG is not subservient to or negated by the existence of an SNG. This exact situation has been discussed at VP numerous times and probably countless times elsewhere. 5225_C (talk • contributions) 15:12, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

there's a presumption of notability unless "adequate sourcing or significant coverage cannot be found".

*cough* *cough* ltb d l (talk) 15:43, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A presumption of notability needs to mean something. It is preposterous that that can be overrided when no one has done any sort of appropriate search whatsoever (not voting keep yet since I haven't confirmed 5225C's doing of this, although I'm starting to have my doubts) – as that essentially means the SNGs are literally 100% worthless. It doesn't make sense that one can delete something on something clearly of significance with zero effort to look in the right places whatsoever, hence why SNGs exist. BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:49, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
so you're so worried about doing an appropriate search? do it yourself. ltb d l (talk) 16:02, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Doing an appropriate search would require me at minimum learning Japanese, and likely traveling to Japan and paying to look at 1980s newspaper archives – in five days, something that is clearly not possible for me to do. Now, if there's an archive of 1980s Japanese racing magazines and newspapers online, then simply looking at that would be sufficient. But as far as I'm aware such a site does not exist. BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:12, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
something that is clearly not possible for me to do

and there's the problem.

you can't find the sources, but you believe they exist, so you ask others to search for them to prove your point.

isn't that a little crazy? ltb d l (talk) 16:16, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
He passes the SNG. As such, the burden should be on those trying to get it deleted to at least make an effort to look in appropriate places before making claims that he is not notable. No, it is not crazy at all. It is common sense. BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:18, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
oh, he passes some arbitrary criteria? so he just has to have sources covering him? ltb d l (talk) 16:19, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
? It states that coverage is highly likely to exist. We know that coverage is highly likely to exist, and so, that fact stands unless someone actually looks and determines otherwise. BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:20, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
you seem to think that "highly likely" means "certainly". ltb d l (talk) 16:25, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm saying that it is inappropriate to delete highly likely notable articles when no one has done any searches whatsoever. BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:27, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
screw it. we're never going to convince each other. you keep your article and i'll try and destroy it. sound good? ltb d l (talk) 16:38, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Unable to find the needed WP:SIGCOV to meet the WP:GNG either in Japanese or English. Let'srun (talk) 17:55, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - @BeanieFan11:, in your reply to me on May 8th, you've effectively said that if we can't prove a negative (that sources don't exist, while no one has proven that they do exist), we should ignore all rules but yet also you're saying here that we need to follow SNGs and give it more weight than the GNG? That makes no sense to me. Furthermore, how exactly are 5225C or other potential delete !voters supposed to satisfy your arbitrary demand for proving this negative? Do we have to learn Japanese in 2 days? ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk) 05:49, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
管理者にあと7日くれと頼めばいい。それで十分だ。 ltb d l (talk) 06:55, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@GhostOfDanGurney: Its as simple as this: we have someone presumed notable. If someone does not look for sources, then that presumption of notability is not successfully rebutted and the article gets kept. To successfully rebut the presumption, a search should be done in sources from the person's language when they were active. BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:31, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Despite what is at present, a clear fail of the GNG? I'm not opposing recreation once (or if) sources are located. But at present, we cannot write an encyclopedic article from what are purely database sources. Our job is not to recreate DriverDB, but to write an encyclopedia. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk) 15:36, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
One can not say that an article fails GNG when no search whatsoever has been conducted in the appropriate areas. I don't see how this is so difficult to understand. The presumption of notability exists for a reason: it is to prevent notable people from being deleted when poor or no searches were conducted at all by those wanting the article to be deleted. The only way to rebut the presumption is to show that an appropriate search was conducted. Notability is based on the existence of suitable sources, not on the state of sourcing in an article. BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:43, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You cannot possibly cite NEXIST when not one single keep !voter has proven the existence of any sources. Remember that we have no deadlines and the article can always be recreated when significant coverage is found. Until then, this article fails WP:NOT as a database entry. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk) 15:48, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There is also NODEADLINE to delete articles that as of now you cannot find coverage for. There's a presumption of notability for a reason and it needs to hold weight – as otherwise it is wholly useless. BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:54, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We can't keep articles that go against policies such as NOT because of the hypothetical existence of sources that no one has been able to find after 3 weeks at AfD and the whole article's existence. "Presumptions" can only go so far before we have to apply "common sense" ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk) 16:07, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with you that presumptions only go so far. However, your implication that rebutting such a presumption can be done by simply saying "fails GNG" without any attempt to find sources whatsoever would mean its not a presumption at all! Also, deletion is not cleanup. Would you mind saying how this is a "summary-only description of a work", "lyrics database", "excessive listing of unexplained statistics", or an "exhaustive log of software updates" (what NOTDB applies to)? BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:21, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
With the present sourcing, the only thing that can be added to the article which passes WP:V would be raw statistics such as results tables. That would count against both "excessive listing of unexplained statistics" and the wording at the top paragraph of WP:NOTDB which says "To provide encyclopedic value, data should be put in context with explanations referenced to independent sources. As explained in § Encyclopedic content above, merely being true, or even verifiable, does not automatically make something suitable for inclusion in the encyclopedia."

We cannot explain why the statistics are significant without significant coverage in reliable, independent sources. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk) 16:32, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
However, the statistics have not been added. One cannot claim that this fails NOT as an "excessive listing of unexplained statistics" when there's no statistics in the article! BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:34, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's literally a one-liner stub otherwise. I started my last reply with "With the present sourcing...," which should have been meant to be in the context of what exists, not just what is in the article. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk) 16:38, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yet again, you cannot say that what is currently in the article is all that exists when no one has looked at any sources from the time... BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:43, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I could go back and repeat my-self again too, but then we'd just be talking in circles and people might see that as WP:BLUDGEONING. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk) 16:49, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

genuinely, where are we supposed to find 1980s japanese newspapers? ltb d l (talk) 00:18, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
~~That burden ~~falls~~ should fall on those trying to delete the article when the subject is presumed notable. BeanieFan11 (talk) 00:23, 14 May 2024 (UTC) edit 00:27, 14 May 2024 (UTC)~~[reply]
i'm gonna go bang my head against a wall if that's ok with you. ltb d l (talk) 00:25, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
~~I don't know what to say anymore, either. BeanieFan11 (talk) 00:27, 14 May 2024 (UTC)~~[reply]
seriously, you're just admitting you don't know where sources are and you believe they exist. ltb d l (talk) 00:28, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
~~And? I don't have access to every source in the world, but I know enough that I can tell if a subject is likely to be covered. BeanieFan11 (talk) 00:31, 14 May 2024 (UTC)~~[reply]
i'm not taking a flight to japan for you. ltb d l (talk) 00:33, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's perfectly fine; but it means that you can't say with certainty that historic figures from the Japan aren't notable, since no search in the language – where coverage is most likely to be – was performed. I've repeated myself enough... BeanieFan11 (talk) 00:36, 14 May 2024 (UTC) Sorry, I've over-commented here. Striking my recent posts and taking a step back. BeanieFan11 (talk) 00:59, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
so until i go to japan and dig through archives notability is presumed? christ. ltb d l (talk) 00:39, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete – Fails WP:GNG and WP:ANYBIO. Items 2 & 4 of WP:NMOTORSPORT are also not met. Item 2 requires at least one season's participation in a major series. Looking at several databases he only competed at Fuji in the 1988 World Sportscar Championship so didn't participate for the whole season. Item 4 requires an overall win, so a class win (13th overall) in the 1995 All Japan Grand Touring Car Championship doesn't count, nor does a class place of 5th in the overall positions for the 1996 All Japan Grand Touring Car Championship, especially as that class only had 5 competitors. --John B123 (talk) 21:51, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Nomination withdrawn. (non-admin closure)‎ LibStar (talk) 03:44, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Karl Filiga

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His first grade career was a mere 11 minutes in total. Fails WP:SPORTSCRIT. LibStar (talk) 05:21, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: Article has several secondary sources, and by the looks of what is written, he went on to have a career in Australia's second tier. Don't think failing in the NRL is sounds to be classEd as not notable. Article could probably be expanded. Mn1548 (talk) 13:11, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: Lots of dead links in the sources which needs to be fixed, but they do establish WP:SPORTSCRIT. His name is even in the headline of one of the ones that still works. Article needs a cleanup and an update. David Palmer aka cloventt (talk) 02:25, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: suggest that his failure at NRL is actually a notable event, which meets significant coverage threshold. Spinifex&Sand (talk) 02:56, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:07, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mackenzie Bent

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Fails WP:NSKATE; PROD removed without explanation. Bgsu98 (Talk) 18:38, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment: Found [[12]] but I'm not finding any other WP:SIGCOV. Let'srun (talk) 02:12, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per the source table. WP:GNG is met. Let'srun (talk) 14:40, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, WP:GNG is met - see source assess table.-- Toddy1 (talk) 09:01, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep -- Multiple examples of SIGCOV from reliable sources. JTtheOG (talk) 05:13, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source	Significant coverage?	Count source toward GNG?
Source assessment table: prepared by User:Toddy1
Holder, Gord (16 January 2014). "Junior titles handed out on final day of competition". The Ottawa Citizen. p. 13.	~ Significant coverage, but very limited scope	~ Partial
McNair, Brian (February 11, 2016). "Uxbridge's Mackenzie Bent and Ajax's Dmitre Razgulajevs off to junior worlds in Hungary". Uxbridge Times Journal. Durham Region. Cayley, Shawn (5 January 2012). "Durham duo impresses in ice dance. Big things in store for Mackenzie Bent and Garrett MacKeen". Oshawa This Week – via DurhamRegion.com. Kelly, Brad (1 February 2013). "Uxbridge's Mackenzie Bent, Oshawa's Garrett MacKeen earn silver at nationals". Oshawa This Week – via DurhamRegion.com.	All three articles discuss the subject directly and in detail	✔ Yes
Slater, Paula (August 26, 2014). "Double duty for Canada's Bent and MacKeen". Golden Skate.	Source discusses the subject directly and in detail	✔ Yes
Smith, Beverley (15 January 2014). "Double duty for Canada's Bent and MacKeen". Skate Canada.	~ Limited scope	~ Partial
"Canadian ice dancers Bent, MacKeen drop to 5th at world juniors". CBC. 17 March 2015.		✘ No
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.

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The result was keep‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:36, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Garrett MacKeen

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Fails WP:NSKATE; PROD removed without explanation. Bgsu98 (Talk) 18:40, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep, WP:GNG is met - see source assess table.-- Toddy1 (talk) 09:02, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source	Significant coverage?	Count source toward GNG?
Source assessment table: prepared by User:Toddy1
Holder, Gord (16 January 2014). "Junior titles handed out on final day of competition". The Ottawa Citizen. p. 13.	~ Significant coverage, but very limited scope	~ Partial
Slater, Paula (August 26, 2014). "Double duty for Canada's Bent and MacKeen". Golden Skate.	Source discusses the subject directly and in detail	✔ Yes
Smith, Beverley (15 January 2014). "Double duty for Canada's Bent and MacKeen". Skate Canada.	~ Limited scope	~ Partial
"Canadian ice dancers Bent, MacKeen drop to 5th at world juniors". CBC. 17 March 2015.		✘ No
Cayley, Shawn (5 January 2012). "Durham duo impresses in ice dance. Big things in store for Mackenzie Bent and Garrett MacKeen". Oshawa This Week – via DurhamRegion.com. Kelly, Brad (1 February 2013). "Uxbridge's Mackenzie Bent, Oshawa's Garrett MacKeen earn silver at nationals". Oshawa This Week – via DurhamRegion.com.	Both articles discuss the subject directly and in detail	✔ Yes
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.

Keep: Per the source table, this subject has the WP:SIGCOV to meet the WP:GNG. Let'srun (talk) 15:21, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. See comment below - However, sources have been located and nobody has argued against them in 11 days. (non-admin closure)‎ Geschichte (talk) 07:13, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yasmin Siraj

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Fails WP:NSKATE; PROD removed without explanation. Bgsu98 (Talk) 18:40, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment But doesn't fail BASIC because the sourcing seems to be there (WBUR, Wicked Local, etc.). As I mentioned to you here, NSKATE is less important than GNG/BASIC. Hameltion (talk | contribs) 21:13, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep -- The two sources presented by Hameltion alone are enough to meet GNG / WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 06:40, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep, agreed that there's more than enough to meet both GNG and NSKATE --TJS808 (talk) 22:03, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Just for clarification, the nominator is correct that the subject does not meet NSKATE. JTtheOG (talk) 23:23, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. NSKATE is not as important as GNG. This is a useful short article on a skater who was reasonably successful in junior skating tournaments. Articles on those tournaments work in their current format because there are articles on most of the medalists; there is therefore no need to say anything about the medalists in such articles (for example: ISU Junior Grand Prix in France). Deleting articles such as this one, has a detrimental effect on other articles.-- Toddy1 (talk) 07:41, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as it does not fail Wikipedia:Notability and that's more important Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 09:56, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Several users argue in a way that doesn't concern Wikipedia policy. Please consider replacing such comments with evaluations of sources in the future. Geschichte (talk) 07:13, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep‎. Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 17:57, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lauri Bonacorsi

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Fails WP:NSKATE; PROD removed without explanation. Bgsu98 (Talk) 18:42, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople and Texas. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 18:43, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment But doesn't fail BASIC because the sourcing seems to be there (Inquirer, Golden Skate, etc.). As I mentioned to you here, NSKATE is less important than GNG/BASIC. Hameltion (talk | contribs) 21:11, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Ineligible for soft deletion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗plicit 00:07, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. NSKATE is not as important as BASIC. This is a useful short article on a skater who was reasonably successful in junior skating tournaments. Articles on those tournaments work in their current format because there are articles on most of the medalists; there is therefore no need to say anything about the medalists in such articles (for example: ISU Junior Grand Prix in Australia). Deleting articles such as this one, has a detrimental effect on other articles.-- Toddy1 (talk) 07:44, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Please familiarise yourself with WP:Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions. Your argumentation seems to fall fully within that realm. Geschichte (talk) 09:37, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That the subject of the article meets WP:BASIC is a valid policy-based reason for keeping the article. Hameltion had already given examples of significant coverage in two different reliable sources, so there was no point in my repeating them. Nothing in the essay you mentioned contradicts that.
Explaining how articles like this one support other articles is not a policy-based reason for retention. But it is nevertheless true.-- Toddy1 (talk) 10:28, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You said that BASIC is important, which looks like a general statement. What we should do is discuss the actual sources and whether they are good enough to base a Wikipedia biography about a living person upon. The rest of it more or less clutter and should therefore be toned down. Geschichte (talk) 07:46, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep There is enough WP:SIGCOV in the sources already present in the article to meet WP:GNG. Yet another poor nomination. @Toddy1: You can see an archived version of the Inquirer article here. JTtheOG (talk) 06:06, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source	Significant coverage?	Count source toward GNG?
Source assessment table: prepared by User:Toddy1
Mittan, Barry (January 17, 2010). "Junior Dancers Off to Good Start". Skate Today. Archived from the original on 13 March 2012.	Source discusses the subject directly and in detail	✔ Yes
Rutherford, Lynn (January 20, 2009). "New partners Bonacorsi, Mager dance to win". Icenetwork. Archived from the original on September 26, 2012. Retrieved September 9, 2011.	~ Source discusses the subject briefly	~ Partial
Walker, Elvin (October 16, 2011). "Bonacorsi and Mager hope to turn silver into gold". Golden Skate. Retrieved October 16, 2011.	Source discusses the subject directly and in detail	✔ Yes
Boccella, Kathy (February 27, 2011). "Radnor High skater's odyssey takes her to world championships". The Philadelphia Inquirer. Retrieved October 16, 2011. Boccella, Kathy (February 27, 2011). "Radnor High skater's odyssey takes her to world championships". The Philadelphia Inquirer. Archived from the original on 31 January 2013.	The first one is a gallery of four photographs. The captions discusses the subject very briefly. The second one is the article that goes with the gallery, which discusses the subject directly and in detail. Amended after JTtheOG provided an archive link	✔ Yes
"Lauri Bonacorsi and Travis Mager lead novice ice dance at 2009 U.S. Figure Skating Championships". LifeSkate. January 19, 2009. Archived from the original on October 4, 2011. Retrieved August 29, 2011.	Mentions the subject in passing	✘ No
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.

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The result was delete‎. — CactusWriter ^(talk) 21:00, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Travis Mager

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Absolutely fails WP:NSKATE; an earlier PROD had been removed. Bgsu98 (Talk) 17:44, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 18:33, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Since it has already been PROD'ed, it is ineligible for soft deletion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Shadow311 (talk) 21:51, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with recommendation to delete, fails both general and specific notability rules--TJS808 (talk) 22:13, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom fails WP:NSKATE and WP:GNG.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 21:27, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus‎. ✗plicit 03:48, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bader Pretorius

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 01:36, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep There's this and this along with other coverage in South African and European media. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 08:44, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) (talk) 04:12, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Not seeing enough sustained coverage to justify GNG, including in the links above. JoelleJay (talk) 21:35, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:27, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:19, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. I am satisfied the subject meets SPORTSPERSON with at least one article which directly details the subject (Rugbyfan22's news24.com source). The rest, while all routine sports business coverage (rosters, games), supports notability. This is WAAY more sourcing than most sportspeople I come across in these processes. BusterD (talk) 14:15, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus‎ because there's no indication of further input forthcoming Star Mississippi 01:42, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

John O'Reilly (baseball)

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Non-notable baseball player, fails WP:GNG. This is all the coverage I have found of him and it would fail WP:BLP1E. – Muboshgu (talk) 14:10, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: Some coverage while in college [13], but not really helping notability. He plays in Ireland now, so there is coverage there. [14] and [15] Oaktree b (talk) 15:34, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) (talk) 14:15, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:19, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Artur Khachatryan

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Boxer whose only reference is a database entry. There is a draft for a diplomat, Draft: Artur Khachatryan, which will otherwise require disambiguation. The need for disambiguation is not a reason to delete, but the lack of sports notability is Robert McClenon (talk) 22:16, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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There's more content at the Russian and Polish wikis that should be checked. BeanieFan11 (talk) 22:20, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed with above comment. I'd lean to a procedural keep if those sources help demonstrate WP:N. Archives908 (talk) 22:34, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Daniel (talk) 00:13, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Fails to meet WP:NBOX, WP:ANYBIO, or WP:GNG. The AIBA database entry shows he had 4 wins and 5 losses in his short career. His bronze medal at the European championships qualified him for the 2011 world championships where he lost his first fight (in the round of 64). I saw no significant independent coverage of him and no indication of meeting any WP notability criteria. Papaursa (talk) 14:41, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: We need to have an editor review those sources at other Wikipedias and provide some concrete information or this discussion will likely close as Delete.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:27, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: The sources offered by the Russian and Polish articles are just database win/loss listings. StreetcarEnjoyer (talk) 03:21, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Subject does not meet the WP:GNG due to a lack of WP:SIGCOV. The sources in the other languages are trivial so far as I can tell and I can't find anything better. Let'srun (talk) 01:27, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep‎. Hopefully, some of these sources can find their way into the article soon. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:31, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Teng Chun-hsun

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Not meet WP:NBAD; Fails GNG Stvbastian (talk) 09:42, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Badminton, and Taiwan. Stvbastian (talk) 09:42, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources. The subject passes Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Basic criteria, which says:
People are presumed notable if they have received significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject.
- If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability; trivial coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not usually sufficient to establish notability.
Sources
1. Kung, Bakery; Deng, Wei 鄧崴 (2023-08-03). "本屆第二面金牌！世大運中華隊值得你關注的羽球球員：「左手重砲」林俊易、「新一代最強女雙」李佳馨、鄧淳薰！" [Second gold medal this year! The badminton players of the Chinese team in the Universiade who deserve your attention: "The left-handed heavy gun" Lin Junyi, "the strongest women's doubles of the new generation" Li Jiaxin and Deng Chunxun!]. GQ (in Chinese). Archived from the original on 2024-04-19. Retrieved 2024-04-19.
  The article notes: "本屆第二面金牌！世大運中華隊值得你關注的羽球球員：「左手重砲」林俊易、「新一代最強女雙」李佳馨、鄧淳薰！在擁有豐富經驗的李佳馨、鄧淳薰，在世大運混團最後一點穩定的發揮下，中華隊在本屆世大運混合團體賽，收下了本屆的第二面金牌。"
  From Google Translate: "Second gold medal this year! The badminton players of the Chinese team in the Universiade who deserve your attention: "The left-handed heavy gun" Lin Junyi, "the strongest women's doubles of the new generation" Li Jiaxin and Deng Chunxun! Thanks to the stable performance of Li Jiaxin and Deng Chunxun, who have rich experience in the World Universiade mixed team, the Chinese team won its second gold medal in the World Universiade mixed team competition."
  The article notes: "身高173公分的鄧淳薰，無疑是最後一個關鍵賽事的亮點；有14年球齡的她，由於有身材上的優勢，爆發力十足，因此後場扣壓的能力相當突出：本場比賽前，這對組合世界排名第20，相較於對手李汶妹、劉玄炫世界排名第14是稍微低了一點，但2020年成軍的「馨薰配」從過去效力中租就已經默契滿分，甚至還被封為「新一代最強女雙」，不負眾望，最終也讓中國隊看到了「最強」的威力。"
  From Google Translate: "Deng Chunxun, who is 173 centimeters tall, is undoubtedly the highlight of the last key event; with 14 years of playing experience, she has a physical advantage and is full of explosive power, so her ability to press in the backcourt is quite outstanding: Before this game, this pair Ranked 20th in the world, which is a little lower than opponents Li Wenmei and Liu Xuanxuan, ranked 14th in the world. However, the "Xin–Xun pair" that joined together in 2020 has already had a tacit understanding of perfect scores since playing in the past and was even named "The strongest women's doubles of the new generation" lived up to expectations and finally allowed the Chinese team to see the "strongest" power."
2. Jian, Mingshan 簡名杉 (2023-08-10). "台灣女羽「忙內」鄧淳薰世大運學經驗　盼亞運叩關4強" [Taiwanese women’s badminton maknae Deng Chunxun learns from the Summer World University Games experience and hopes to reach the top four of the Asian Games]. ETtoday [zh] (in Chinese). Archived from the original on 2024-04-19. Retrieved 2024-04-19.
  The article notes: "剛代表中華隊參與成都世大運，並拿下羽球混雙項目銀牌以及混合團體項目金牌的小將鄧淳薰，也將披上國家隊戰袍出戰接下來的杭州亞運，身為中華羽球女團中年紀最小的「忙內」，第一次出戰亞運坦言，「能打到哪裡就是哪裡。」同時也期盼能夠叩關女單項目的8強甚至4強。"
  From Google Translate: "Deng Chunxun, the young player who just represented the Chinese team in the 2021 Summer World University Games and won the silver medal in the badminton mixed doubles event and the gold medal in the mixed team event, will also put on the national team jersey and compete in the next Asian Games in Hangzhou. As a middle-aged member of the Chinese badminton women's team The youngest "maknae", who is participating in the Asian Games for the first time, said frankly, "I can play wherever I can." At the same time, she also hopes to reach the top 8 or even the top 4 in the women's singles event."
3. Ye, Shihong 葉士弘 (2016-04-27). "全中運》李鄧配羽球摘金預約東京奧運" ["National Games" Li Deng won gold medal in badminton and booked for Tokyo Olympics]. China Times (in Chinese). Archived from the original on 2024-04-19. Retrieved 2024-04-19.
  The article notes: "就讀台北市立大同高中國中部三年級的李子晴與鄧淳薰，從小就是羽球女雙搭檔，展現出超齡的實力與擊球威力，她們先在今年1月舉行的第1次全國排名賽勇奪乙組第一與甲組門票，轉戰台東全中運更是勢如破竹，1局未失登上后座。 ... 兩人球路與個性互補，李子晴個性大方，鄧淳薰則較為內向，在球場上也是李子晴較為主動，鄧淳薰則以補攻為主，成為絕佳拍檔，她們本次不斷打下國中女雙金牌，也率隊打下女團金牌，一舉進帳兩金。"
  From Google Translate: "Li Ziqing and Deng Chunxun, who are in the third grade of Taipei Municipal Datong High School, have been a badminton women's doubles partner since childhood. They showed their strength and hitting power beyond their years. They first won the Group B in the first national ranking tournament held in January this year. First and Group A tickets, the move to the Taitung All-China Games was even more impressive, without losing a single game. ... The two players have complementary skills and personalities. Li Ziqing has a generous personality, while Deng Chunxun is more introverted. Li Ziqing is more proactive on the court, while Deng Chunxun focuses on making up the offense. They have become an excellent partner. They have continuously won gold medals in the junior high school women's doubles this time. , also led the team to win the women's team gold medal, winning two gold medals in one fell swoop."
4. Zhan, Jianquan 詹健全 (2021-10-21). "全運》疫情後15連勝連三冠　李佳馨／鄧淳薰女雙打遍台灣無敵手" [National Games》After the pandemic, Li Jiaxin/Deng Chunxun women’s doubles won 15 consecutive victories and won three consecutive championships in Taiwan.] (in Chinese). LTSports. Archived from the original on 2024-04-19. Retrieved 2024-04-19.
  The article notes: "新冠疫情後要留給有準備好的人，很明顯，來自中租的「馨薰配」李佳馨／鄧淳薰組合準備的非常充足，「馨薰配」今在全運羽球女雙金牌戰的北市內戰中再以直落二(21：8、21：15)打敗吳玓蓉／程郁捷奪金，疫情後已連15勝包辦全排、全大運和全運三冠，儼然已經是台灣新一代最強女雙。... 「馨薰配」中的鄧淳薰今年更是首度參加全運就順利摘金而回"
  From Google Translate: "After the COVID-19 pandemic, it must be left to those who are prepared. It is obvious that the "Xin–Xun pair" Li Jiaxin/Deng Chunxun combination from Chailease is very well prepared. The "Xin–Xun pair" is currently playing badminton in the National Games In the women's doubles gold medal match in Beishi Civil War, they defeated Wu Zhenrong/Cheng Yujie in straight games (21:8, 21:15) to win the gold medal. After the pandemic, they have won 15 consecutive victories to win the three championships of the National Parade, Universiade and National Games. It seems that they have already won the gold medal. They are the strongest women's doubles team of Taiwan's new generation. ... Deng Chunxun in the "Xin–Xun Pair" participated in the National Games for the first time this year and successfully won the gold medal."
5. "羽球／全國國中盃　北市大同奪3冠1亞4季第一贏家" [Badminton/National Junior High Cup Beishi Datong won 3 championships, 1 Asia and 4 seasons as the first winner]. ETtoday [zh] (in Chinese). Archived from the original on 2024-04-19. Retrieved 2024-04-19.
  The article notes: "從小學就搭檔至今的北市大同女雙鄧淳薰／李子晴，19日準決賽先以22：20、21：11擊敗自家姐妹孫妏沛／陳奕璇，再於決賽以21：12、21：16取勝南市永康梁家微／鄭育沛，贏得她們國中生涯首座全國大賽后冠。身為大會第1種子的鄧李配，不僅首輪輪空，且場場快速解決對手，堪稱這次女雙最強拍檔 ... 今年全中運屈居第四的鄧李配，賽後鄧淳薰哭的像是淚人兒般，本屆國中盃終於一嚐摘冠心願"
  From Google Translate: "Beishi Datong Women's Doubles Deng Chunxun/Li Ziqing, who have been partners since elementary school, first defeated their sisters Sun Yupei/Chen Yixuan in the semi-finals on the 19th 22:20, 21:11, and then defeated Nanshi Yongkang in the final 21:12, 21:16 Liang Jiawei/Zheng Yupei won the first national championship in their junior high school career. ... As the No. 1 seed in the conference, Deng and Li Pei not only received a bye in the first round, but also quickly defeated their opponents in every game. They can be called the strongest partner in women's doubles this time. ... Deng and Li Pei, who finished fourth in the National Games this year, cried like tears after the game. This year's Junior High School Cup finally got a chance to win the championship."
6. Huang, Xiuren 黃秀仁 (2017-08-12). "紐西蘭懷卡托羽賽》台灣潛優小將獲2冠3亞7季　表現最耀眼隊伍" [Waikato Badminton Championships in New Zealand》Taiwan's potential youngster won 2 crowns and 3 Asian Games, the most dazzling team in 7 seasons] (in Chinese). LTSports. Archived from the original on 2024-04-19. Retrieved 2024-04-19.
  The article notes: "北市大同高2女雙鄧淳薰／李子晴與高雄中學3年級鄭育沛／梁家溦在冠軍戰演出「自家姊妹」對決戲碼，最終鄧李配技高一籌，花費35分鐘以21：16、21：19拿下比賽，也獲兩人搭配以來在國際成人賽第一冠。"
  From Google Translate: "The second-year girls' doubles team of Datong High School in Peking City, Deng Chunxun/Li Ziqing, and Kaohsiung Middle School third-graders Zheng Yupei/Liang Jiaman performed a "sister" showdown in the championship match. In the end, Deng and Li were superior in supporting skills and won in 35 minutes with 21:16, 21:19. In the competition, they also won the first international adult championship since the two teamed up."
There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Teng Chun-hsun (traditional Chinese: 鄧淳薰; simplified Chinese: 邓淳薰) to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".
Cunard (talk) 11:50, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Extraordinary Writ (talk) 16:31, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per @Cunard arriving with a steel chair to source the hell out of this article. BrigadierG (talk) 01:59, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per above The argument above is quite well laid out. With all those good Chinese-language sources, Teng Chun-hsun doesn't fail GNG at all. Batmanthe8th (talk) 17:45, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: Sources presented are good. Hopefully someone can incorporate a couple into the article. StreetcarEnjoyer (talk) 01:01, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect‎ to 2010 FIFA World Cup squads#North Korea. There is consensus for a redirect here as an ATD, and per WP:BARTENDER, I'm going with the World Cup squad. I've discounted both keep !votes because they are based on the standard in WP:NFOOTY, which has been removed from WP:NSPORTS (see Wikipedia talk:Notability (sports)/Archive 49#Association football (soccer)). (non-admin closure) voorts (talk/contributions) 01:17, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pak Chol-jin

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Article fails WP:GNG. Can only find passing mentions in match reports. Redirect to 2010 World Cup squad. Simione001 (talk) 03:23, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 14:05, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep He has 36 caps for a senior national team and played in a World Cup. Anwegmann (talk) 00:35, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Both irrelevant facts. There are no sources which prove notability in sport and as such the article should be redirect to 2010 World Cup squad or deleted. Simione001 (talk) 00:50, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment @Simione001: I just like to point out that he is listed at both 2011 AFC Asian Cup squads and 2010 FIFA World Cup squads, so redirecting to one or the other would effect the search feature if anyone looks the name up. If deleted with no redirect, people will be able to find his name in both the articles and not be directed to just one. Govvy (talk) 22:01, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep Odd one because WP:NFOOTBALL has been removed from WP:NSPORT but according to the discussion at WP:NFOOTBALLNEW, Players who have played in, and managers who have managed in, any Tier 1 International Match as defined by FIFA was once the guideline for notability which this article meets. Orange sticker (talk) 11:20, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Orange sticker: - You are basing your keep vote on a failed proposal. WP:NFOOTBALLNEW was rejected. You mustn't make up your own keep/delete criteria. WP:GNG is very clear. Simione001 (talk) 23:48, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment not quite, the proposal was to change what was referred to as the current guideline (part I quoted) however all guidelines relating to football seem to have been scrapped for reasons I don't know. Might be a good idea to draftify this and similar stubs until the guidelines are clearer? Orange sticker (talk) 08:06, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
WP:GNG is the only criteria that applies. Its very clear. Simione001 (talk) 08:24, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Simione001: You've nominated over 100 articles in the past few months and they seem to near-exclusively target those from just North Korea - a much underrepresented country whose sources are very difficult to find / use / etc. This systematic destruction of a nation's football history is rather annoying. Why? BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:52, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Because they are terrible quality articles with next to zero information about the individual. If you actually looked into it, there a quite a few North Korean players which pass WP:GNG so to say this is some kind of systematic destruction of North Korean football is laughable. Simione001 (talk) 23:08, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to 2011 AFC Asian Cup squads#North Korea for his last-known appearance if anyone can't find any significant coverage. Clara A. Djalim (talk) 11:53, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment. This is another reason why the changes in notability rules were a bad idea. Getting rid of sport-specific guidelines did a lot of damage. If English Wikipedia wants adequate coverage of football in North Korea and other small countries, the sport-specific guidelines need to be restored. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 16:05, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
With the caveat that I only discovered the changes looking into this AfD I have to agree. Seems it will lead to a coverage bias towards countries with more widely understood languages in English speaking countries. I can see plenty of Andorran footballer BLPs, for instance. Orange sticker (talk) 20:20, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
WP:NSPORTS has always said that all the subjects must have WP:SIGCOV to pass WP:GNG but that those who passed the sport-specific guidelines were likely to have those significant sources written about them. However, the participation based guidelines NSPORTS were an extremely poor indicator of notability. NFOOTY for instance basically said that if an individual played a single minute in a football match where everybody got paid then said individual was likely notable despite no evidence that it was the case. The blatant misuse of the guidelines to keep articles of modern day players who didn't have a single significant coverage to their name in this golden era of online coverage is probably one of the bigger reasons why the Wikipedia community got fed up and scrapped most of the sport-specific guidelines. If you can't find a source on a modern day individual outside of a database source then the individual likely just isn't notable. Alvaldi (talk) 09:12, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think it's so much that people in English-speaking countries may have an understanding of Andorra's language (everyone has access to Google Translate) but that North Korea is an exceptionally secretive nation. I doubt it has specialised sports media in any language, and if it does, it's going to be grossly partisan and inaccurate. There is no private media in Cuba so that would be a similar problem even if millions of US-Americans can read Cuba's language. North Korea is a specific problem when it comes to getting accurate information about anything. Unknown Temptation (talk) 17:32, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to North Korea national football team (2010 FIFA World Cup squads#North Korea as a secondary choice) or delete if no consensus is reached in redirecting. I found plenty of trivial mentions of him in match reports but was unable to find WP:SIGCOV to establish a pass of WP:GNG. Best I could find in Korean sources is this but it is not nearly enough. Alvaldi (talk) 09:39, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 06:46, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ekaterina Zaikina

AfDs for this article:

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Absolutely fails WP:NSKATE. Bgsu98 (Talk) 03:31, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete The subject definitely fails WP:NSKATE and I am struggling to find any coverage at all. For reference, the Cyrillic script transliteration of her name seems to be Екатерина Заикина. JTtheOG (talk) 00:23, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. Agreed that it fails WP:NSKATE. Further, de minimis test of notability appears to be their participation in World Juniors, which doesn't seem to have any RS coverage. - Cara Wellington (talk)

Cara Wellington (talk) 06:25, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Star Mississippi 00:27, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mike Parenti

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I am unable to find sufficient in-depth coverage of the subject, a French rugby league player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. The best I could find was this from Treize Mondial, which is only a couple of sentences. JTtheOG (talk) 19:45, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep - pro footballer who played in the Super League, sourced.Fleets (talk) 07:17, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Undecided: Playes for Catalans and there should be more written about him. Should be expanded, but currently not sufficient coverage. Mn1548 (talk) 16:29, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete No significant coverage. Fails WP:SPORTBASIC. J Mo 101 (talk) 11:43, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment: Participation-based athlete criteria, which the sole keep !vote is based on, were deprecated 2 years ago. JTtheOG (talk) 02:27, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus‎. and it appears none is going to evolve. Even discounting the aside about football cards, established editors are split on depth of coverage Star Mississippi 00:35, 16 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sylvan Anderton

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sportsperson stub. fails general notability guideline. ltb d l (talk) 09:48, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment – The player appears to have a substantial number of appearances for Reading and Chelsea. I think it's a matter of WP:V. Svartner (talk) 14:06, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Keep - clearly notable. Over 200 appearances in England's professional football league (verified by the Neil Brown source in the article sas well as sources like this), while a quick Google search brings up things like this and this which clearly indicate historical (read: offline) coverage. A lazy nomination. Giant Snowman 18:18, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
are those football cards? ltb d l (talk) 12:24, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
...yes? Giant Snowman 07:43, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
football cards aren't reliable sources ltb d l (talk) 11:01, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Has that ever been decided? I'd think if it were by a reputable company it would be reliable. BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:44, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
that's crazy ltb d l (talk) 06:19, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Football cards being reliable sources made me literally laugh out loud. AusLondonder (talk) 07:45, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Why wouldn't a reputable card company be reliable? BeanieFan11 (talk) 19:01, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
amazing. 10/10. no notes. ltb d l (talk) 06:34, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
? BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:40, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
At no point have I claimed that football cards are reliable. I was merely suggesting that appearing on football cards - and, if you had bothered to Google him, all the other historical coverage at photo archives etc. - suggests there is coverage out there, which research by others below has supported. Giant Snowman 18:04, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep With the amount of games he played and the clubs he played for seems good enough, combined with GS sources above and probably much more WP:OFFLINESOURCES, this needs improvement for sure. Govvy (talk) 18:49, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep More than 200 professional appearances for teams with deep, deep histories and legacies. This is very obvious. Clearly notable. Anwegmann (talk) 23:02, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails GNG and lacks SIGCOV. An actual check of the newspapers.com archive finds nothing but mentions in match reports/transfer stories. He went on to play cricket for Bryant Rose Cricket Club and won the raffle four years in a row there but that is trivial stuff. NFOOTBALL has been depreciated since 2022 so any Keeps based on number of games played must be ignored by the closer. He isn't notable either for playing for some "notable" clubs per NOTINHERITED. Dougal18 (talk) 10:37, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I frequently see editors citing Wikipedia:But there must be sources! in AfDs for footballers with dozens of international caps. I'd like to see the same standard applied to footballers with "over 200 appearances in England's professional football league". How do football cards indicate offline coverage, @GiantSnowman:? As Dougal18 points out so far it has not been demonstrated that SIGCOV exists. Robby.is.on (talk) 11:17, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Mostly per Dougal18's reasoning. Footballers are not inherently notable - they need to meet WP:GNG. This is clear community consensus. Simply asserting that an individual played for notable teams is not a suitable AfD argument. If nothing can be found in newspaper archives, then he's not notable. Another point is this is little more than an infobox and a pseudo-biography. AusLondonder (talk) 11:24, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There seems to be a decent amount of newspaper coverage, although it is mostly brief-ish: see [16] [17] [18] [19] [20] [21] [22]. An argument could be made for WP:NBASIC, considering he seemed to have significant amount of appearances for prominent clubs. Not sure if that changes anyone's views: @Ltbdl, AusLondonder, Dougal18, and Robby.is.on:? BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:26, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Good research! Giant Snowman 07:44, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, per Dougal and AusLondoner. Football cards do not contribute to notability at all, and given passing mentions in match reports don't count towards even BASIC for modern players they shouldn't count for old players either. We don't have a single piece of the required IRS SIGCOV, so we have no valid justification for retaining this article. JoelleJay (talk) 21:07, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment He also has a biographical entry in Chelsea The Complete Record: author: Rick Glanvill isbn: 9781909245303 also mentioned in The Little Book of Reading FC - 1920-2008 author: Alan Sedunary isbn: 9781780913711. There maybe more books with biographical information. Govvy (talk) 13:54, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Can you tell us what exactly is in those books? Dougal18 (talk) 14:22, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Glanvill is Chelsea's official historian, he is not an independent source. JoelleJay (talk) 19:03, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Reply @JoelleJay: That's not correct, nor is it proper to discredit him. Will you do the same for Historians who went to Oxford and Cambridge and write about those subjects? He is a published author and a reputable one at that. Please don't use this argument ever again on any credited club historian. Govvy (talk) 22:39, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
He's literally hired by the club to write about club history. Of course he isn't independent. And if a historian is employed by Oxford to write about Oxford history then they aren't independent either. JoelleJay (talk) 16:56, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@JoelleJay: Again you really have no idea, the Chelsea book is independent to the club, published by De Coubertin Books deCoubertin Books is a leading independent publisher, which publishes outstanding non-fiction titles predicated on high editorial and production values. We work with some of the biggest names in sport and sportswriting and our books have been nominated for numerous awards. Being hired by a club doesn't make the book published by the club. Also the link provided says he is the club historian, because he is the top of his field in the history for the club, at no time does that post on the Chelsea page say he is hired directly for them. The Reading book is published by Breedon Books Publishing Co Ltd and not Reading Football Club. These are both independent publishers to the clubs. I really don't understand why you feel these are primary sources when they are not remotely so. Govvy (talk) 21:43, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Being an employee of the club (He has worked for all Chelsea FC's publications and media since 1993 and is the club's official historian.) means the person has a COI with the club, and this applies to material the person publishes through independent publishers (and obviously anything authored by the club would go through an external publisher; it's not like each club has its own book publishing house; the "Official Biography" of Chelsea that he penned ... for the club is through Headline Publishing Group). We'd consider a book authored by a relative of the subject to be non-independent regardless of where it's published; the same applies here. And what part of "the club's official historian", as recorded on the club's website, makes you think he's not working directly for them.....
I didn't say anything about primary sources. I said they are non-independent. JoelleJay (talk) 22:00, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is like arguing that an 'official biographer' of a celebrity should be discredited...nonsense! Giant Snowman 18:05, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
An official biographer of a celebrity who was hired by that celebrity's talent agency should absolutely be discredited! JoelleJay (talk) 01:11, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
...that is not what an official biographer (always) is. See e.g. Rob Wilkins/Terry Pratchett. Giant Snowman 20:58, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Sports cards are reliable sources stat-wise.KatoKungLee (talk) 17:12, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep – For the arguments presented so far in the discussion. I see no reason to discredit a club historian, or sports cards, considering that the athlete played in the 50s and 60s. The sources presented by @Govvy demonstrate credibility. Svartner (talk) 21:14, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Credibility of who? Dougal18 (talk) 14:14, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The authors of mentioned books. Svartner (talk) 15:26, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So employees of the football club are somehow exempted from the NSPORT guidance saying Team sites and governing sports bodies are not considered independent of their players if they don't publish directly on the website?
The sports cards are completely trivial stats coverage. Why would they count? JoelleJay (talk) 17:01, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep. The delete arguments seem a bit WP:IDONTLIKEIT, in their attempts to discredit what seems like reasonable coverage. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 06:26, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete claiming a biographer who is an employee of the company is an independent source is a strange notion.

Industrial Insect (talk) 17:55, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is not, because this type of historiographical survey is not carried out partially, but rather as a measure to preserve part of the institution's history. The likelihood of the book's author having tampered with these numbers is negligible, which in my opinion makes the source completely credible. Svartner (talk) 05:33, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Exactly. There is clear coverage of this person, who was active 60+ years ago (hence why not everything is online!), but saying a professional athlete with over 200 appearances is not notable is nonsense. Giant Snowman 20:58, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Subject does not meet the WP:GNG due to a lack of independent WP:SIGCOV. Let'srun (talk) 17:20, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Clearly significant player for a Football League club (Reading) with over 200 pro appearnces that definitely has offline sources. Thanks, Das osmnezz (talk) 07:12, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - IMHO he satisfies WP:GNG MaskedSinger (talk) 11:33, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep significant player with over Over 200 appearances in England's professional football league as per WP:NEXIST.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 12:18, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
...and more offline sources are being found and added by helpful users! Giant Snowman 17:55, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
... which only the people with a subscription can read. "Cheerio, Sylvan! READING WERE RIGHT TO SELL by THE SPORTS EDITOR" seems to be an opinion piece which wouldn't be sigcov. Either that or it is routine transfer story. Dougal18 (talk) 11:01, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect‎ to List of Karachi Kings cricketers. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:03, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Abdul Ameer

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This guy fails both WP:GNG and WP:NCRICKET. A search seems to only one article with his name in it and it only covers him tangentially. Allan Nonymous (talk) 23:25, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete samee converse 01:23, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. I found several references using this search by focusing my search on Dawn.com, a leading English-language newspaper in Pakistan. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 05:16, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The sources here seem to all be tangential coverage of him playing for his team. The first hit isn't even of Abdul Ameer but of a M. Abdul Ameer who seems to be unrelated. Allan Nonymous (talk) 13:16, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete too poor to stay on Wikipedia, not much to salvage around here. Acartonadooopo (talk) 20:20, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Acartonadooopo, it's the English Wikipedia's rule that Wikipedia:Deletion is not cleanup. It doesn't matter whether the current version of the article is "too poor to stay on Wikipedia", because the question here at AFD is whether the subject qualifies for a Wikipedia:Separate, stand-alone article. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:59, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to List of Karachi Kings cricketers Not sure I'm seeing enough in a search to suggest a WP:GNG pass, however there could well be offline coverage. Suitable redirect per WP:ATD. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rugbyfan22 (talk • contribs) 19:45, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep. Sources likely to exist in Pakistan; taking 100 first-class wickets is no mean feat. AA (talk) 22:11, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Sources likely to exist" is a WP:THEREMUSTBESOURCES argument. Allan Nonymous (talk) 15:15, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect, zero SIGCOV to be found and no evidence that anything exists offline. JoelleJay (talk) 21:38, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect. Nothing found or presented which meets SIGCOV. This is a BLP. Subject has received bare mentions from a single source. Everything else is unsupported assertion and a stats database. BusterD (talk) 20:40, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to List of Karachi Kings cricketers BLP, fails GNG and NBIO. Nothing found in article or in BEFORE which meets WP:SIRS addressing the subject directly and indepth. Found listings, name mentions, nothing meeting SIGCOV. BLPs require strong sourcing. // Timothy :: talk 14:52, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to List of Karachi Kings cricketers: Subject does not have the WP:SIGCOV to meet the WP:GNG. Redirect as a WP:ATD. Let'srun (talk) 18:00, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 04:08, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Robin Brochon

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I am unable to find sufficient in-depth coverage of the subject, a French rugby league player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. It's possible I missed something, as Google had a good amount of hits, but really all that came up were interviews (1, 2) and post-match quotes (1, 2). JTtheOG (talk) 19:23, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep - Professional footballer who made his Super League debut in 2018, and has made dozens of appearances for another professional club in France.Fleets (talk) 09:20, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Fleets, this !vote rationale is invalid, as participation-based athlete criteria were deprecated 2 years ago and the existing requirement that athletes meet GNG was strengthened to require at least one SIGCOV IRS source be cited in the article from the start. JoelleJay (talk) 21:58, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete—Per JT, news items would be the very least to qualify as RSs. Tony (talk) 11:01, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Coverage is routine or primary/nonindependent in addition to being trivial. JoelleJay (talk) 21:59, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Undecided: Played for Catalans and Toulouse and there should be more written about him. Should be expanded, but currently not sufficient coverage. Mn1548 (talk) 16:29, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete‎. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. ✗plicit 04:14, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Max Wirth (cyclist)

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lugnuts stub. fails notability guidelines for cyclists. ltb d l (talk) 09:14, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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According to the German Wikipedia, he was a Swiss national champion in cycling and there's several offline sources which are referenced. Those should be checked, and also one should check Swiss newspaper archives, as it seems quite likely a nation's national cycling champion would be covered there. BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:59, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure if the Swiss Cycling Association is independent though? Let'srun (talk) 12:14, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hmmm... true. I was also just able to find what appears to be an online Swiss newspaper archive -- see here. I can't figure out how to get it to work, though... BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:21, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I narrowed down the search for you: {"Max Wirth" AND (Rad OR Velo)} and a little wither search: {"Max Wirth" AND (Rad* OR Velo*)} Maybe you'll find a good source. I have no time to do the search. 🤾‍♂️ Malo95 (talk) 19:55, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Phumza Mntungwa

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The result was speedy keep. Thanks to @Jpeeling: for his research. The subject meets SPORTCRIT at the very least. Nomination withdrawn. (non-admin closure)‎ JTtheOG (talk) 23:01, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African cricketer, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 19:07, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to List of Boland representative cricketers Looks to fail WP:GNG. Suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:53, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak Keep - another cricketer not helped by Cricinfo's naming, he uses his middle name Vezokuhle with some usage of Vezie/Vezi, there is this and Newsbank throws up a piece in a local paper. --JP (Talk) 08:28, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect‎ to List of Eastern Province representative cricketers. (non-admin closure) voorts (talk/contributions) 01:06, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sihle Magongoma

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African cricketer, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 19:06, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to List of Eastern Province representative cricketers Looks to fail WP:GNG. Suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:54, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 17:42, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tythan Adams

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 19:02, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak keep' There's this and a few other bits from his time in Scotland, just enough for a keep for me but close. No suitable redirect per WP:ATD. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:47, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. I find Timothy's rationale the most persuasive, and there's just about enough support for deletion here. If anyone wants this draftified to work on it immediately, please let me know and I will facilitate. Daniel (talk) 11:49, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Maxime Jobe

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I am unable to find sufficient coverage of the subject, a French rugby league player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 19:49, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep - professional footballer who played at the elite level, multiple sources to prove that fact.Fleets (talk) 10:36, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:SPORTBASIC. J Mo 101 (talk) 11:39, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. No evidence of IRS SIGCOV, which is required to be cited in the article for all sportspeople. JoelleJay (talk) 21:12, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Undecided (leaning keep/move to draft): Young Catalans player and will likely have more coverage later in his career. Should be expanded, but currently not sufficient coverage. Mn1548 (talk) 16:31, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So you agree that there is not sufficient coverage? JTtheOG (talk) 22:14, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: BLP, fails GNG and NBIO. Nothing found that meets WP:SIRS addressing the subject directly and indepth. BEFORE found routine mill news, name mentions, listings, nothing with SIGCOV from independent reliable sources. BLPs require strong sourcing. Sources in article are a database record and a name mention in routine game news. Ping me if indepth SIGCOV is found. // Timothy :: talk 09:11, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Ewart Potgieter

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. I found a transactional announcement, as well as coverage of an alleged criminal incident in Spain (1, 2, etc.), but nothing substantial. JTtheOG (talk) 20:16, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak keep Think there's just about enough in the Spanish coverage combined with other bits for a weak WP:GNG pass. No real suitable redirect per WP:ATD here though. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 08:57, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: Fails GNG and ANYBIO. The relevant SNG, WP:SPORTSPERSON requires at least once source which directly details the subject in RS. Nothing but stats here. BusterD (talk) 13:29, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Ultimately, User:BusterD is correct, sources must be present in the article or brought into the discussion. A "There must be sources" attitude could be used to justify an article on any subject imaginable. We have to deal with information available now, that exist during the course of this discussion, not at a hypothetical future time. This deletion doesn't disallow the future creation of this article should adequate sources be located. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 00:42, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Andras de Lisocky

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Fails WP:NATHLETE, WP:GNG. Only source included is a WP:TRIVIALMENTION Cocobb8 (💬 talk • ✏️ contribs) 14:30, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep, I think WP:NATHLETE is not the appropriate policy because de Lisocky is not a track and field sportsman, road racer, or cross country runner. De Lisocky is a gold medalist at a major international competition, so I do believe that we can be confident that contemporary coverage must exist. Finding those newspapers / other sources may be difficult, but we have to at least put in an effort. --Habst (talk) 13:22, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment. The Bolivarian Games is not a major international competition. It is a smaller event with 6 participating countries. The Pan American Games would be the major competition in this case. Geschichte (talk) 17:36, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Geschichte, how is the Pan American Games relevant to this deletion discussion, because the athlete did not participate there? I agree that the Pan Ams are also a major international competition, but there is no rule that there has to be only one major competition in the world. For someone from Colombia, the Bolivarian Games are certainly one of the biggest competitions an athlete could win outside of the Olympics (which he also competed in). Thanks, --Habst (talk) 12:33, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is relevant because you claimed that he is a "gold medalist at a major international competition", which is an uncorroborated claim made by an anonymous person on the Internet, i.e. you. The South American Games also has sailing and is a lot bigger in scope than the Bolivarian Games. Geschichte (talk) 10:31, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Geschichte, thanks for your response. Both the Pan American Games and the South American Games are also major international competitions, but their existence does not invalidate the fact that the Bolivarian Games are, as well, a major competition. To qualify this with a source, see Rengifo, Lisandro Abel (2022-06-26). "Juegos Bolivarianos: ¿sí tienen la importancia que dicen?". El Tiempo (in Spanish). Retrieved 2024-05-02., which asserts that the Bolivarian Games are crucial to advancing to the Olympic Games and are a major competition. That isn't an uncorroborated claim; it's sourced to reliable news sites. --Habst (talk) 14:52, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Subject lacks the needed WP:SIGCOV to meet the WP:GNG. Let'srun (talk) 02:18, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete or redirect to notable event. More unsourced Lugnuts nonsense. A series of articles written solely to populate a list on an Olympic event page. Just because it's true doesn't make it notable. Those who disagree are required to bring sources to prove that assertion of notability. All these stubs should be sourced sufficiently or redirected to the event. BusterD (talk) 20:54, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@BusterD, thanks, what do you think about a procedural keep because the nomination used an invalid criteria (WP:NATHLETE is intended only for track and field / cross country / road racing athletes, not sailors)? --Habst (talk) 14:02, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Correctly pointing out the nominator used an imprecise shortcut doesn't help the subject meet notability by the correct guideline. The nominator's assertions are 1) doesn't meet the criteria for specific notability, 2) doesn't meet general notability, and 3) only applied source was a bare mention. These assertions go unrefuted in this process. The correct SNG link is WP:SPORTSPERSON, and that guideline (amended specifically to deal with lightly-sourced Lugnuts-type creation) tells us at least one reliable source is required which directly details the subject. Can anybody present one? BusterD (talk) 15:02, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus‎ / weak keep. We have reasonable disssension on WGM v GM as well as whether the volume of sourcing is sufficient. A consensus to delete this article isn't going to emerge, but nor is a strong consensus for retention. Star Mississippi 01:39, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Anna Burtasova

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Person had no notability. Sources of dubious quality. Only one other source could be found, and it alone could not be enough to build an article upon. aaronneallucas (talk) 04:15, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment "Sources of dubious quality"? They are all from FIDE, the ultimate reliable source for chess. PamD 22:22, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not dubious in the sense that they are unreliable, but they just do not establish notability. They are largely collections of statistics, and not articles about the person. None of the FIDE sources show significant coverage, which, as stated for the notability of sportspeople: "Sports biographies must include at least one reference to a source providing significant coverage of the subject." This does not meet that, and I cannot find any evidence of significant coverage of this person. aaronneallucas (talk) 23:29, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: No WP:SIGCOV is present here or elsewhere for this subject to meet the GNG. The sources are either primary, unreliable, or in the case of the NYT is a brief mention. Let'srun (talk) 18:00, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisting comment: Relisting, I think it was bad form to nominate this article for an AFD discussion less than an hour after the article was created. That's not enough time to create an article that could withstand scrutiny at an AFD. I'd also like to see some assessment of newly added content since its nomination.
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Delete. No SIGCOV. Passing mentions such as those in the NYT and The Globe and Mail do not contribute to notability, nor do non-independent primary sources like FIDE. JoelleJay (talk) 22:08, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Burtasova does hold the title of Woman grandmaster, perhaps there is someone move familiar with WP:NCHESS who can comment on notability requirements for chess players beyond WP:GNG. I realize this is not a delete/keep statement, but just a thought. DaffodilOcean (talk) 12:43, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Subject meets WP:NCHESS criteria #1 and #6. Respectively, Burtasova is a chess grandmaster, and has contributed to the development of chess in Canada.^[1] -The Gnome (talk) 15:49, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note that Woman Grandmaster is a lesser title than Grandmaster. The requirements are slightly tougher than those for FIDE Master and slightly easier than those for International Master. Also, the WP:NCHESS criteria are strictly unofficial. MaxBrowne2 (talk) 11:14, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your argument is tantamount to claiming that the title of a champion for women's title is a lesser title than for men's tennis. (Yes, I'm intentionally alluding to the ridiculous episode involving poor John McEnroe.) Wikipedia does not consider the title of WGM in women to be any less worthy than the same title in me. Having separate tournaments and championships for men and women (not a universal separation, by the way) does not mean one is "lesser" (sic) than the other. -The Gnome (talk) 20:33, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry but the WGM title *is* inferior to the GM title. It is far easier to get than the GM title, easier even than the IM title. I don't know by what authority you proclaim what "Wikipedia" does or does not "consider", but the claim that the titles are equivalent is just plain incorrect. Women are entitled to enter open tournaments, compete against men, obtain "men's" titles and compete in the "men's section" at chess Olympiads, and play in "men's" championships. Women who are strong enough (i.e. most of the world's top 20 woman players) hold the full GM title. MaxBrowne2 (talk) 22:59, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You obviously do not understand what I'm saying, MaxBrowne2. I am not saying that the ELO arithmetic average of Women GM is equal to Men GM. No, it's not even close. There's about a hundred ELO points difference on average. What I am saying is that Wikipedia does not assign any difference between men and women grandmasters as far as notability is concerned! And if you have a different opinion, please point out the pertinent guideline to set me straight. Which is why I'm telling you that your claim ("Woman Grandmaster is a lesser title than Grandmaster") makes no sense in this context. This is not a chess discussion; this is a discussion about deleting or not an article. -The Gnome (talk) 09:44, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ELO is a rock band, not a rating system. I do understand what you're saying, and I disagree completely. There is no such title as "Men GM", only GM, which is open to all players who meet the standard, including 41 women to date. There is no "men" anything in chess, men don't have segregated tournaments or titles. GMs are pretty much always notable. IMs don't always make the cut, and neither do WGMs. Often, but not always. WGMs are not Grandmasters, only the 41 women who have actually gained the GM title are. And again what qualifies you to make proclamations on behalf of "Wikipedia", and what "Wikipedia" does or does not "consider" or "assign a difference" to? MaxBrowne2 (talk) 10:21, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you do not understand the ELO rating system in chess, I, in turn, cannot understand how you offer opinions about elementary issues of the game such as what kind of title is a grandmaster. But, perhaps, or hopefully, you're joking ha ha. In any case, Wikipedia does not place WGMs lower in any way, shape, or form lower than GMs. You invoke WP:NCHESS without understanding it! I already challenged you and I repeat the challenge: Find me in WPedia a rule, a policy, or a guideline that prohibits using the title of Women GM as evidence of notability. Simple task. Otherwise, you're making stuff up. -The Gnome (talk) 14:09, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is clear that you understand nothing of which you write. Concerning WP:CHESS:

Even a cursory examination of this thread will show that *you* invoked WP:NCHESS, not me.
I was around when we drafted that guide and had some hand in it
It was never intended to be invoked as policy, or even a guideline, only as a rough guide to whether or not a player might be considered notable. It is not a good link to use in a deletion discussion.
In the context "Grandmaster" clearly refers to the GM title, not the WGM title, and it is absurd to insist otherwise.

And for Christ's sake stop professing to speak on behalf of "Wikipedia" and making pompous pronouncements on what "Wikipedia" thinks about any topic. "Wikipedia" is not a sentient being and has no opinions on anything.

What Wikipedia does have are policies and guidelines that have been established by consensus. There is clearly no policy or guideline that says that no distinction should be made between the GM and WGM titles when assessing notability, since one is clearly a superior title to the other.

I am going to disengage here on a "never argue with an idiot" basis. I seriously question your competence to edit chess articles or participate in chess-related deletion discussions. I did not start this unpleasantness, I was just offering clarification that the "Grandmaster" in criterion 1 of WP:NCHESS does not refer to WGMs, but you chose to respond with an aggressive WP:BATTLEGROUND approach, which you then doubled down on with WP:IDHT obtuseness. If you don't understand by now that criterion 1 of WP:NCHESS does not include WGMs then you never will. After all you don't even know the difference between a Hungarian surname and a seventies British rock band, yet you presume to make pronouncements on behalf of "Wikipedia"! MaxBrowne2 (talk) 19:43, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak keep: Also have this article [23] about this person. I think we have just enough to squeak past notability. This interview on CBC just a few days ago [24], while not about her confirms basic details, and this other story about her hired by a Toronto club [25]. Oaktree b (talk) 19:54, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as per Oaktree's references. That's two different articles in the nation's biggest national paper - plus the local foreign one in a New York city paper. Nfitz (talk) 16:19, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: on the basis of WP:NCHESS.--Ipigott (talk) 11:04, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. As Nfitz notes, the sources Oaktree b found, from independent periodicals, provide the coverage in independent reliable sources that WP:GNG guides us to find. Hydrangeans (she/her | talk | edits) 08:59, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Nothing to do with WP:NCHESS which holds no status on Wikipedia, or her title (which is *not* equivalent to a full Grandmaster title), but because there are sufficient sources to establish notability. Further sources can be found in the Russian and German Wikipedia pages and could be incorporated into the article. For example the information that she graduated with a law degree from Vladimir University. MaxBrowne2 (talk) 23:59, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We have three local sources and one brief mention. That doesn't add up to WP:BIO. The title of grandmaster (putting aside the separate WGM title) may have been an indicator of notability years ago when there were only a handful issued each year, but there are thousands now. NCHESS would never find consensus to be promoted to an actual notability guideline in part for that reason. Stopping short of !voting delete because it sure seems like the only chess player AfDs I see are of women players -- we could use a notability audit of our articles on the men, too. — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 23:53, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As I mentioned the Russian and German wikipedias can link us to other sources, such as Virtual Vladimir, Ruschess, Wissen in Wedding and the German Chess Federation. That's more than enough sources to construct an article. MaxBrowne2 (talk) 03:36, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The value of the Chess Grandmaster title has been inflated many decades ago and not in recent times. I distinctly remember reading about this issue many decades ago. Tournaments with GMs participating are more appealing. In any case, if you, Rhododendrites, or others, believe changes are in order to WP:NCHESS, then I'm sure you're aware that AfD discussions are not the place for that. Take care. -The Gnome (talk) 14:31, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

agreed. Nchess is irrelevant as far as afd is concerned. If you believe it should be turned into a notability guideline that can serve as the basis for afd arguments, afd is not the place for that either. — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 16:22, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Rosner, Cecil (26 November 2022). "Toronto chess club hires resident female grandmaster to attract more women to the game". Toronto Globe and Mail. Retrieved 23 April 2024.

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The result was no consensus‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:20, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kauvaka Kaivelata

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a New Zealand rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 18:27, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak keep There's a few bits in the article and in a search to suggest coverage is increasing, especially with the players career just starting to kick off. I'd imagine there will be a couple more bits coming in the near future, so perhaps could be draftifyed, but I think worth keeping and expanding as likely the draft will just be deleted. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:55, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:22, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

McKenzie Buckley

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, an English rugby league player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 18:22, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am also nominating the folllowing article as he is a member of the same team (St Helens R.F.C.) who also fails to meet WP:SPORTBASIC:

Ben Lane (rugby league) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 01:54, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep - Professional rugby league footballer who has played football at the elite level. 5 sources related to his football career.Fleets (talk) 17:06, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Fails WP:SPORTBASIC. J Mo 101 (talk) 11:37, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: Doesn't appear as if he is currently playing, one pro aperance isn't sufficient. Mn1548 (talk) 16:35, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - Only routine coverage aka signings and game reports, WP:SPORTBASIC. Other keep votes here should be discounted for making no mention of source depth. BrigadierG (talk) 01:25, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep - Five sources, even if none of them are specific to the subject, and the fact that most other team members have their own articles as well. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 01:16, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

GNG requires in-depth coverage. Mere mentions in sources do not suffice. JTtheOG (talk) 01:23, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm well aware, but if you want to be strict with that an AFD should be made for George Delaney, Ben Lane (rugby league), and other members of the St. Helens team as many only have passing or list mentions.

Buckley and others have their only specific mention on the rugby league project website, which isn't very in-depth as you said. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 01:31, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, yes they should. If you fling 100 non-notable stubs onto Wikipedia, you can't then also defend them from deletion by pointing out that the other 99 still exist. BrigadierG (talk) 01:38, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Bundled the two others I mentioned who fall under the same deletion criteria with this AFD. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 01:55, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Did you do a WP:BEFORE search? Articles should probably be nominated individually anyways, which I was reminded of two days ago. JTtheOG (talk) 02:11, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, though looking at that previous AFD I'll retract the nomination for Delaney for now as he seems to have slightly more content than the other two, though still nothing in-depth. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 02:22, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You need to use the additional nominations template or else it messes up the closure process. BrigadierG (talk) 02:26, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's there right below the initial nomination. Flemmish Nietzsche (talk) 02:35, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For what it's worth, I was also unable to find any coverage of Ben Lane. JTtheOG (talk) 03:11, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Procedural Keep for Ben Lane per WP:BUNDLE. Nominating another article after several editors have already commented in this AfD is not appropriate. J Mo 101 (talk) 12:36, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. No evidence of meeting SPORTCRIT. The Ben Lane AfD should occur separately but I'd !vote delete there too. JoelleJay (talk) 21:55, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus‎. WP:NPASR applies. ✗plicit 13:16, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Michael Amiras

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a South African rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. I found this transactional announcement and this interview. JTtheOG (talk) 16:52, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep Along with the interview provided, there's also this, just about enough for a WP:GNG pass. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:50, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus‎. While the nomination was without merit, several valid Delete views were expressed, but no consensus was reached. Owen× ☎ 14:53, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Foday Sillah

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The title and status he has earned are not encyclopedic. Redivy (talk) 21:58, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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It is inappropriate to call one of the best athletes from an African nation as "not encyclopedic"; whether we can find the coverage to demonstrate notability, that will be another story. BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:59, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete: I don't see coverage about a person with this name, a few hits on a school in The Gambia with this name. Happy to revisit if others can turn up sourcing. Oaktree b (talk) 00:29, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - nominator needs to familiarize themselves with WP:NOTENCYCLOPEDIC. Low effort nominations like this are going to be thrown out whether the subject is notable or not. Sergecross73 msg me 00:32, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep based on Sergecross73's comment, Low effort nominations like this are going to be thrown out whether the subject is notable or not. I was able to find a lot of verifiable information about this person that was not mentioned at all in the nominated article or nomination statement, including his exploits at the World U20 championships where he was the highest-placing male Sierra Leonean athlete ever, he was actually a two-time Olympian and not just at the 1992 Olympics, and he has a still-standing national record at 200 metres. Finding contemporary African news reports from this period is difficult, but I believe there is enough evidence here to know that further coverage exists. --Habst (talk) 17:37, 15 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. The information can often, as well as in this case, be found via What Links Here. It still needs non-database sources Geschichte (talk) 06:55, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

FWIW I don't think anyone, besides maybe some people who are already editors, looks up people without articles here and then finds and clicks "what links here" to find information about them. A standalone article is much more beneficial to readers, as that way we get both the bare information one would get from a table-link-mention and plenty of other interesting, additional details explained with context. BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:20, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Geschichte, thanks for bringing this up. Not all of the information could be found via What Links Here, for example the fact that Sillah's World U20 performance was the best by any Sierra Leonean. Also, if the article were to be deleted, the standard practice is then that any links to the article would be un-linked per WP:REDLINK ("Red links should not be made to articles deleted because the topic was judged unencyclopedic or lacking notability"), meaning that Special:WhatLinksHere would be useless (text searches are not reliable because they could include people with the same name) and much of this structured data would essentially be lost to history. --Habst (talk) 17:05, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@BeanieFan11 My point was about using What Links Here for nominators (and other editors). The reason why Lugnuts' articles were so horrible, was that they typically mention competing in a single Olympic event, where the athlete's career often had much more longevity. Geschichte (talk) 20:35, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Ordinarily, I'd close this AFD as a procedural Keep due to the lack of a valid deletion rationale but we do have an opinion to Delete this article so I'm relisting to see if editors can come up with additional sourcing to demonstrate that this subject is "encyclopedic".
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:04, 17 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Keep, as the article stands today it seems enough for the article to not be deleted. Themanwithnowifi (talk) 15:15, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. The nomination statement notwithstanding, not a single source with significant coverage has been located. Sillah wasn't that high-ranking as an athlete that we can jettison the demand for sources because we think WP:ITSINTERESTING. Geschichte (talk) 20:35, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Geschichte, there is no deadline for Wikipedia. I believe the info we know about Sillah is conclusive that coverage must exist of him based on his accomplishments making him the best in his country, but it's a matter of having access to the African sources from the 90s that would have covered him. Scans of these may become available in 1, 10, or 20 years – that's why WP:NEXISTS is a policy, to allow for time to get the sources. But saying to drafty in this case is essentially saying to delete the article in 6 months, because most drafts are abandoned. What do you think? --Habst (talk) 20:44, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I was responding to an older version of the reply that was a draftify vote. It was edited to Comment after I started writing my reply. --Habst (talk) 22:14, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Habst, I think there is a good reason why the rule about coverage was added. The days when articles could be built solely on databases and primary sources are over, we have to face that. Geschichte (talk) 07:48, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Geschichte, thank you, which rule are you referring to? I am open to deleting this and any other page based on a rule, but I just can't see what is being violated. I've edited Wikipedia both before and after WP:NSPORTS2022, and it does not invalidate WP:NEXIST. Respectfully, --Habst (talk) 10:09, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
NEXIST = grasping at straws. You personally think there are lots of significant coverage about this and that person, but that doesn't make it true and how likely it is varies a lot. For a person like Nikolay Antonov, it was overwhelmingly likely, but here - with the highlights being an U20 performance and a slow indoor record - it is nowhere near as likely. Geschichte (talk) 08:03, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Geschichte, thanks for your perspective because I think the challenge is important. NEXIST isn't grasping at straws; the idea that we can know that coverage exists based on depth of accomplishments is the entire basis of subject-specific notability guidelines existing. Yes, it was used successfully on Nikolay Atanasov, but it has also been used successfully in other cases such as Abdou Manzo, understanding that Sillah's 200m record (1069 pts) is actually better than Manzo's record (924 pts).

Also, I think that the subject is being sold short on likeliness of coverage. Sillah was, at a time, the best sprinter in Sierra Leone, a country of 8 million people. In order to be selected for all these international teams, he had to have won some sort of national championship or proven himself on the national level. The likelihood that there is no contemporary coverage of this person existing in the world is, in my opinion, impossible. --Habst (talk) 13:18, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Technically, every country in the world has 50 national champions every year for men and women. Not all of them get coverage. Mind exercises "in your world" about what ought to exist are not something Wikipedia can base itself upon. Do you even know whether Sierra Leone was able to arrange national championships during a brutal civil war? I think you do not. Geschichte (talk) 10:09, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Geschichte, let's try to work this out together and come to an agreement. There's a difference between being a national champion, and being the fastest or strongest person from a country at a given time – the former is far more arbitrary than the latter. The results from Sillah prove that he was the fastest from his country for a decent stretch of time, representing Sierra Leone at several international competitions and setting a national record. Where there actually was a formal national championship is irrelevant in determining that fact.

During war-time, athletes representing countries usually receive outsized coverage, not the other way around – for example see the substantial coverage for Ukranian athletes like [26] [27] [28], not to mention the Tigray War during which several Ethiopian athletes received coverage recently. Based on this evidence, we can conclude that coverage exists, and the task of finding it up to us now. --Habst (talk) 15:42, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A couple of articles from the US are not "evidence" for anything. If enlarged coverage during wartime is a universal tenet, where are the articles in the Los Angeles Times, Washington Post and San Diego Union Tribune - or any newspaper from a developed country - about Foday Sillah? Geschichte (talk) 05:42, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Geschichte, the articles are evidence of coverage in that specific case.

where are the articles in the Los Angeles Times, Washington Post and San Diego Union Tribune – I agree, I think that's the question we should be asking. We have enough evidence to conclude such articles do exist, somewhere.

Remember that often times athletes have one name on Wikipedia but were covered under another name at the time. This happened in the case of "Samuel Nchinda-Kaya", which was nearly deleted unanimously until I was able to find that the subject actually used a different name. Maybe that's the case here, or maybe the articles haven't been scanned into newspaper databases yet. It might take one, ten, or one hundred years to find them, but the basis of notability guidelines existing is to allow us the time to keep and improve the article in the mean time. --Habst (talk) 14:13, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Procedural keep as no accurate deletion rationale has been presented by the nominator. No qualms with someone else renominating this one with a stronger rationale. Let'srun (talk) 16:40, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete No significant coverage. Jake Wartenberg (talk) 13:56, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus‎. Star Mississippi 02:39, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Irie Papuni

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, an Australian rugby union player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. Given his age and ongoing career, draftification seems to be a good ATD. JTtheOG (talk) 20:37, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak keep Think there's enough in the article, plus a search for a weak keep here. Draftification is a suitable WP:ATD if deemed not also .Rugbyfan22 (talk) 18:40, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus‎. Star Mississippi 02:39, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bastien Scimone

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, a French rugby league player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. I found plenty of trivial mentions, both in English (The Yorkshire Post, Sky Sports, Warrington Guardian) and French (Le Petit Journal, L'Indépendant, La Dépêche), but nothing approaching WP:SIGCOV. JTtheOG (talk) 19:43, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep - French international rugby league footballer who has played as a professional in the Super League for the Catalans Dragons on a number of occasions. Additionally as per the cited sources has played as a professional for Toulouse Olympique and at international level for France B, as well as the full national side.Fleets (talk) 14:40, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Have you got any WP:SIGCOV? Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 19:14, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep/Move to draft: Young Catalans player, will likely have more written about him in the future. Mn1548 (talk) 16:38, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect‎ to 2021 Men's Rugby League World Cup squads. (non-admin closure) The Herald (Benison) (talk) 18:01, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Josh Maree

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, an Australian rugby league player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. JTtheOG (talk) 19:09, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep - Rugby League footballer who played for Lebanon at the Rugby League World. 8 sources.Fleets (talk) 20:13, 8 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The quality of the sources has to be addressed. Geschichte (talk) 06:15, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirecting to 2021 Men's Rugby League World Cup squads is an WP:ATD. On that page, one will find his club and cap count at the time (I don't know why rugby doesn't put DoB as well, like football squads). @JTtheOG, note that several other of the Lebanese 2021 World Cup pages are of the exact same build as Josh Maree. Geschichte (talk) 06:15, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Played in a team that got to a WC QF, nothing is written about his club career, needs expansion. Mn1548 (talk) 16:39, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect per above. No evidence of the requisite GNG coverage, merely playing in some league does not meet any notability criterion. JoelleJay (talk) 01:48, 16 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisting comment: Keep or redirect?
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Redirect to 2021 Men's Rugby League World Cup squads. No standalone notability and no established first grade career. LibStar (talk) 06:11, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Participation-based athlete criteria, which both keep !votes are based on, were deprecated 2 years ago. JTtheOG (talk) 06:19, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus‎. Star Mississippi 12:31, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kyle Brazell

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, an Australian cricketer player, to meet WP:GNG. The closest to WP:SIGCOV that I found were 1 and 2, both from the same publication. JTtheOG (talk) 04:07, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak keep I'd say there's enough in those sources to keep the article for now, given the player has only debuted this season as there will likely be more coverage in the coming future. Wouldn't be against draftifying, but also a suitable redirect at List of South Australian representative cricketers also, so two suitable WP:ATDs. Rugbyfan22 (talk) 08:57, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I think 1 and 2 are something which cover independently about the subject, plus there are other refs in the article. These can be considered as enough, since the player debuted just in this season, more coverage is likely to come in future if he continues playing. In terms of SNGs, it meets WP:NCRIC as well. Robo^CricLet's chat 05:05, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- The South Australian Cricket Association and Cricket Australia are not independent of the subject. The former directly administers the South Australia cricket team that he plays on, and is affiliated with the latter. Given his young age, I support draftification as an ATD, as well as the redirect suggested by Rugbyfan22. JTtheOG (talk) 05:17, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  Although, they cover directly about the subject, the problem is that those are primary sources. Those contain useful information, so I linked those. However, apart from these two, I guess this is a secondary source which discusses about the topic, his education qualification and also his performance. I just wanted to say that since he debuted in this season, all these can be considered enough for a keep. Anyway, if the consensus reached by other editors is not to keep it, then I'll agree with a redirect. Thanks. Robo^Cric Let's chat 11:26, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
~~Draftify~~, not enough independent secondary material to meet GNG but there may be in the near future.
Redirect. JoelleJay (talk) 15:27, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Inclined to agree with Rugbyfan22 on this one. AA (talk) 22:12, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Either keep or redirect to the list of SA cricketers. Drafting this serves zero benefit really - it'll just end up getting deleted as no one will remember the draft is there. If there's not enough coverage for now then redirecting is the normal response in situations such as this - much easier to reverse a redirect and restore the page before adding the additional sources that are likely to appear if he continues to play. Blue Square Thing (talk) 08:14, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisting comment: Relisting. There is clearly no additional support for Deletion but no consensus yet as opinion is divided between Keeping, Drafting or Redirection.
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Comment: To better summarize the sources in question, there are a couple sentences of coverage here, though it's mostly quotes, and four-ish sentences of coverage here. Both are from The Advertiser so they should be counted as one source. JTtheOG (talk) 04:24, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete‎. Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. Because of that, very little weight was given to keeps based on the assertion that the player will either play more matches or be the subject of additional coverage in the future. Further, the community has been clear that caps do not dictate notability. With both of those in mind, there is a clear consensus that the subject is not notable. Guerillero ^{Parlez Moi} 09:44, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Jensen Monk

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I am unable to find enough coverage of the subject, an English rugby league player, to meet WP:GNG or WP:SPORTCRIT. Draftification would be an option, but this is a re-creation of an existing draft. JTtheOG (talk) 01:33, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Rugby league, and England. JTtheOG (talk) 01:33, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Professional rugby league footballer who made his professional debut in 2023, played the other day against fellow top level side Warrington in the Challenge Cup. Multiple sources within the article.Fleets (talk) 19:20, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
- Sources 1 and 2 are stats databases, while the next four are trivial mentions of the subject. BLPs require strong sourcing, which is why I draftified it the first time. JTtheOG (talk) 20:41, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Currently playing in the top tier with five appearances and will likely gain more. Currently borderline on notability for me but will likely be recreated if deleated. Mn1548 (talk) 16:35, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. He might be notable in the future but that would be speculating. Re-create if and when he plays a few more games and more sources are likely to exist. J Mo 101 (talk) 17:36, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Sources are exclusively namedrops, zero coverage here. Arguments to keep based only on his appearing in a particular league are strictly invalid per SPORTSBASIC. JoelleJay (talk) 23:17, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to List of London Broncos players. Fails GNG as there is no SIGCOV. References are routine coverage and stats databases. Frank Anchor 01:22, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) (talk) 02:37, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - two further news sources added referencing academy days, move into first team, and first appearance of the 2024 season.Fleets (talk) 11:08, 13 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) (talk) 05:42, 20 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: Young player, will likely have more written in the near future, 8 refs already. Mn1548 (talk) 16:39, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Please refrain from repeating your !vote on a new bulleted line. Thank you. JTtheOG (talk) 23:51, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@J Mo 101: @JoelleJay: Would y'all consider a redirect to List of London Broncos players to be a better alternative? JTtheOG (talk) 02:17, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Seems sensible. I would have no problem with that. J Mo 101 (talk) 21:23, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: final relist
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Toadette^Edit! 18:01, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

[1] Rosner, Cecil (26 November 2022). "Toronto chess club hires resident female grandmaster to attract more women to the game". Toronto Globe and Mail. Retrieved 23 April 2024.

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