User talk:Gwern

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• User talk:Gwern/Archive/1 -(9 September 2006 - 17 November 2006)
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Question about Gai Daigoji edit

Hey there, I recently posted an edit to the "Gai Daigoji" page involving the band Gai Daigoji. This was the first time I've tried to edit on Wiki. I saw that you said "rv. no evidence band meets WP"MUSIC. myspace doesn't help..." I'm not sure what I did wrong and I was wondering if maybe you could explain so I could correct it. Thanks.

FNORD

Hi! This is Icarus!, being non-Wiki (I'm not logged in...), saying thanx for the work on the Discordianism page! Keep it up!24.176.20.60 16:20, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

TINC. --Gwern (contribs) 15:34 22 August 2007 (GMT)

Miyamoto Musashi

Hi Gwern, Thanks for undoing my edit. I had misread the sentence so I got it wrong. Fg2 10:07, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

No problem. Many eyes and all that. --Gwern (contribs) 12:56 22 August 2007 (GMT)

Can you help me with the Susan J. Napier article

Hello, I'm a Wikipedian from zh:. Recently I'm trying to do some improvements to the NGE article in zh. Long ago I knew the Napier article When the Machines Stop: Fantasy, Reality, and Terminal Identity in Neon Genesis Evangelion and Serial Experiments Lain. And I think a anime article really needs some critical POV, so Napier's article would be very helpful for improving the quality of the Chinese article, and I also value this very much. But I can't find the article anywhere with any online method. Finally, I find you have a scan copy. So could you please send me a copy? (sicaral-gmail-com) Of course I know the copyright issue. Thank you! Sicaral 13:08, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Hey. I did have a scan copy at one point, but I extracted everything I considered of value for the NGE article, and I *think* I deleted it (I am perpetually low on disk space). At least, I can't find it on my hard drive anywhere, Gmail searches turn up nothing, and the file upload service I used to send them to $yD! (talk · contribs) deleted the archive a long time ago. So I'm afraid you're going to have to hope SidiLemine held onto the PNGs; or you could ask FileHO! to undelete it (see [1]). If none of those work, see User:GunnarRene/Sources; GunnarRene apparently is claiming to have a copy. --Gwern (contribs) 15:33 22 August 2007 (GMT)

Thank you all the same. That... "GunnarRene is taking a long wikibreak and will be back on Wikipedia next fall." and there's no email address, OMG. So maybe I can only ask for SidiLemine. Sicaral 21:32, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

From Dan Weinreb

Hi. This is in reply to your comment on my edit of the Symbolics page. Yes, my change is "unsourced"; unfortunately I don't know of any "source" for this. The only written source I know of is Stallman's book, but that's his own account of what happened, and just because he found a publisher and wrote his version in a book does not make it true. The actual facts are that only 3 or 4 of the Symbolics founders were employed by the AI lab (4 if you count Dave Moon who was half-time). I don't know why the original author particularly referred to Richard and Marvin; if you count Marvin as a "hacker" then there were dozens of hackers who did not leave the AI lab. Symbolics's founders came from many different places, including Lawrence Livermore Labs, the IIASA in Vienna, the MIT Lab for Computer Science, Honeywell LISD, and so on. I'm sorry about the text not flowing -- I was trying to make as minimal an edit as I could that would be consistent with the facts, because I thought that would be appropriate Wikipedia etiquette. I'm very new at Wikipedia and regret if I have done anything wrong. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DanielWeinreb (talk • contribs) 13:27, August 25, 2007 (UTC)

P.S. I would be happy to go into more detail about exactly who the founders were and where they came from, to the best of my recollection, but I thought that would be too much information and would really not fit in the flow. If there were some way to do footnotes (probably there is, and I don't know it) I guess it might make sense to put in a footnote with an enumerated list of the founders. If I can remember them all. I actually think there were about 20 people who were considered "founders" in that they received founder stock, which was the criterion for the use of the word "founder" within Symbolics. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DanielWeinreb (talk • contribs) 13:32, August 25, 2007 (UTC)

Yes, there certainly is a way to do footnotes - a number of ways, actually, although in that article I use the simplest, which is to insert <ref>Reference information</ref> wherever the footnote is warranted. Obviously the formatting can get more complex; for the loathsome details, see Wikipedia:Footnotes.

The list of founders would be a good idea for the Symbolics article, definitely. I never saw it mentioned, but did everyone who signed up at the start get founder stock?

As for Stallman; yes, just having published some stuff may not make his account any truer, and certainly not a few people have disputed his accounts - but the important thing is that his version is all down in black and white and so if one editor uses it as a source for statements in articles, other editors can check up on it and thus it is verifiable.

People violate stuff like verifiability and reliable sources all the time, sure, but standards have to be higher for people involved in articles - for obvious reasons. It may seem like an unfair burden, but take it from me, a few sessions editing articles on stuff like the Israeli-Palestinian thing, or Scientology-related articles (in my personal experience), or similarly contentious subjects, and all of a sudden hard-line interpretations of RS, V, and COI suddenly begin to look really really good; not to mention, just avoiding the appearance of COI and POV can be valuable, as all the recent new coverage stemming from the WikiScanner tool has taught us all. Anyway, this is all good stuff to keep in mind in the future. --Gwern (contribs) 17:53 25 August 2007 (GMT)

Blank lines before stub templates

It's actually extremely common practice, for the simple reason that they tend to look like complete crap when rendered, if the template is smooshed into the foregoing text, navboxes, etc. On a more general note, wiki comments aren't an especially good substitute for talk pages. Alai 01:43, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't think it's common, as I said. I've only rarely seen it. I just visited Special:Random about 20 times, and of the 5 stubbed articles, only 1 had a double line between the stub template and the categories/external links. And comments are a great way to draw attention to a single very specific point that doesn't really make sense as a entire talk page section. --Gwern (contribs) 01:54 3 September 2007 (GMT)

And you'll have noticed that the other four looked like complete crap, I trust. Even taking your statistics at face value, 20% of the stupendously large number of articles with stub templates is an extremely common practice. And "great way" seems a very unlikely characterisation of your means of asking rhetorical questions -- I've had to start an "entire talk page section" to respond to it, in any event. Alai 02:07, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

You've had to start a talk page section because, instead of addressing my comment as I meant it to be - by providing some reason to believe that it is based on anything but the fiat of the few editors who have ever frequented that page, some source for why this ugly advice (yes, ugly. I've gone and looked at an example more closely, and I find it appears to have a ragged block of around 3 or 4 lines, and generally appears disconcerting, as opposed to the neater and more compact appearance of a single newline) is anything but a peculiarity, and having addressed the concern raised by the comment, removed it as taken care of - and you have instead begun to argue with me over the merits of it. I had intended to argue against it if no good reasons could be adduced for it, but based on the strength of your arguments (why yes, 20% is an extremely common practice - not) perhaps I should've assumed it was baseless to begin with and begun arguing on the talk page immediately. --Gwern (contribs) 02:15 3 September 2007 (GMT)

How was I supposed to know how it was "meant" to be addressed? And how the heck would I have done that, without the allegedly terrible cost of a entire talk page section? Let me guess, this is supposed to be the equivalent of adding {{fact}} to guideline pages? I've not removed it as "addressed", I've removed it as "in a wholly inappropriate place". I don't follow why you assert it's "ugly advice", but I'd prefer ugly guidelines to ugly articles. (The actual substance of my point, which you don't address at all.) What has an example that doesn't follow the practice suggested in the guideline got to do with whether it's good practice or not? I don't see what weakness you've identified in my explanation: that you've summed it up entirely inaccurately is not at all helpful. I suggest you do take it to the guideline talk page; replying on your own talk page is a far from reliable way of having me see it. (Though I won't deny that that's a very common practice, too.) Alai 02:43, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

You were supposed to know since that's what it asked - where the heck the sources were for this assertion. And yes, it was a nice version of fact. I don't like the overuse of fact and it didn't carry quite the meaning I wanted, so I didn't use it. The advice is ugly because it produces uglier pages.

As for what's weak in your statement, I'm not sure if you're being willfully obtuse, but I will say, yet again: the only argument you've made in favor of that part of the guideline, the only argument which doesn't bear on my own supposed sins in inserting a comment or whatever, is that it produces articles which to you seem to look a bit better (I don't include the specious 'oh but everybody does it' argument because it's demonstrably not true). Do you see the problem with this? --Gwern (contribs) 21:33 3 September 2007 (GMT)

Question

Are you an administrator? If you are, could you please delete the old version of: Image:SporadicAlbum.jpg please? --Victor (talk) 03:29, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm afraid I am not. You may want to visit WP:CSD. --Gwern (contribs) 13:54 3 September 2007 (GMT)

Quote from the O.C. Bible

I'm not sure about your ebooks but in both editions of the book that I have (ISBN: 0-441-17271-7 mass market paperback from 1990 and 0-441-00590-X hardcover from 1999) the scene between Paul and Reverend Mother Mohiam on roughly page 11 or 12 goes as follows:

"'Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a man's mind," Paul quoted. "Right out of the Butlerian Jihad and the Orange Catholic Bible," she said. "But what the O.C. Bible should've said is: 'Thou shalt not make a machine to counterfeit a human mind.'

I have read the book 11 times as well as all the sequels and the prequels other than Hunters of Dune and Sandworms of Dune. I don't appreciate your condescension. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ppuccio (talk • contribs) 00:43, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Really? Then what about the appendix:

"JIHAD, BUTLERIAN: (see also Great Revolt) -- the crusade against computers, thinking machines, and conscious robots begun in 201 B.G. and concluded in 108 B.G. Its chief commandment remains in the O.C. Bible as "Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind.""

Or Children of Dune:

" Mentats were necessary. The human-computer replaced the mechanical devices destroyed by the Butlerian Jihad. Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind! But Alia longed now for a compliant machine. They could not have suffered from Idaho's limitations. You could never distrust a machine."

--Gwern (contribs) 01:13 4 September 2007 (GMT)

Eva plot summary

Thanks for letting me know about that, I'll need to keep up with that page. :-) Willbyr (talk | contribs) 01:37, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

NP. --Gwern (contribs) 02:10 4 September 2007 (GMT)

How'd you find the SR S2 parodies on my user space?

I'm keeping it here until and if ever such a parodies page could be resurrected with adequate cites. It was previously deleted. BrokenSphere^{Msg me} 02:07, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

The magic of "What links here". --Gwern (contribs) 02:10 4 September 2007 (GMT)

I daresay you've found some amazing things that way. --BrokenSphere^{Msg me} 02:12, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, an astonishing number of NGE-related userboxen, and more Eva references across all sorts of articles I never conceived of. Plus: a lot of odd redirects. --Gwern (contribs) 02:14 4 September 2007 (GMT)

Kirby

There is no point in writing bios on academics unless you indicate why they are important--at least with the current positions and major publications. I saved Simon Kirby from speedy deletion by adding this information, but it should have been there in the first place. It will need something more, however, it order to avoid deletion by some less drastic method like Afd. DGG (talk) 10:18, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, I was in a hurry at the time. You're right that the post was not up to my usual standards. --Gwern (contribs) 16:00 9 September 2007 (GMT)

Categories

Hi, Gwern. Thanks for trying to fix the categories for the article on Hakuin Ekaku, but that's not how categories work. When you want to add someone to a category, for instance, you should use their name, such as "[[Category:Buddhist philosophers|Hakuin Ekaku]]". This will cause their name to appear in the list of articles for that category. (Yes, it's different from the way links normally work). Hope this helps. --ubiquity 22:24, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I'm uh, pretty sure that you're wrong. Categories do work that way. They've worked that way ever since my very first edit in another account way the hell back in '04, and I double-checked Wikipedia:Categorization just to be sure. Piping is only needed in categorization links if you want it to be sorted in the category by a different name. In this case, if you want Hakuin Ekaku to be listed under Hakuin Ekaku, no pipe is needed because that's exactly the name the article is under. It'd be different if one wanted it to be listed as "Ekaku, Hakuin", but then you'd still be better off with a {{DEFAULTSORT:Ekaku, Hakuin}} anyway rather than duplicating it. (I did make a typo in changing the Buddhist philosophers to philosopher, singular, but I've fixed that.) --Gwern (contribs) 00:30 11 September 2007 (GMT)

You're right. Sorry to have reverted you. I was just so used to doing it the other way that it never even occurred to me it was wrong. Thanks for setting me straight. --ubiquity 02:02, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Sure. It's strange, but this seems to happen to me often. --Gwern (contribs) 02:16 11 September 2007 (GMT)

Your recent edits

Hi, there. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. On many keyboards, the tilde is entered by holding the Shift key, and pressing the key with the tilde pictured. You may also click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you! --SineBot 22:16, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

I did sign, but there was a coding error in SineBot, which has since been fixed. --Gwern (contribs) 19:14 18 September 2007 (GMT)

Jihad in Ismailism

Tell me if my current edit is fine with you. Thanks. --Enzuru 18:11, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

It's much better than the previous ones. I have no problem with the text saying that the Nizari are pacifist now or that jihad has sometimes and increasingly so in modern times been interpreted as inner struggle; it's just the previous versions looked seriously unbalanced and POV to me. Ideally there'd be some cites for all of this, but the current version is workable. --Gwern (contribs) 19:17 18 September 2007 (GMT)

Atala T

I am the arthor of both Atala T articles and im here to tell you that I have replied to the deletion page and Im requesting that you please look at what I have to say and reply to my talk page

--Muriness 23:18, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

I've seen the reply. --Gwern (contribs) 13:01 16 October 2007 (GMT)

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AFD for Vsevolod Holubovych

Note that the mess of an article has been stubified and notability has been established. The nominator is withdrawing the AFD. Please review the discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Vsevolod Holubovych and considerif you wish to switch your !vote. Regards. -- Whpq 12:44, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Done. --Gwern (contribs) 12:59 16 October 2007 (GMT)

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Redirect of Danger Ranger

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Recent DBZ AfDs

Sorry about that that, it was the first time I attempted to sort an AFD. (Duane543 22:53, 25 October 2007 (UTC))

Live and learn. --Gwern (contribs) 18:34 26 October 2007 (GMT)

Rikdo

Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to make constructive contributions to Wikipedia, at least one of your recent edits, such as the one you made to Rikdo Koshi, did not appear to be constructive and has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any test edits you would like to make, and take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you. If a part of an article is not according to wikipedia standards, please help by improving it. But dont tag it as nonsense by adding some text, as that is regarded vandalism. Thank you :) Excirial ^{(Talk,Contribs)} 18:28, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Excirial, I think you need some more experience before you go around reverting and slapping vandalism templates down... --Gwern (contribs) 18:34 26 October 2007 (GMT)

Your edit

Your edit seems to have done something unintended. Compare the previous version, where the indents work, with your version, where they don't. Can you fix this? Maybe just revert and readd your comment? Thanks, Picaroon (t) 20:29, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Library of Alexandria

Replacing a dead link with a failed internet wayback machine dead link is "exceptionally lazy" as you would say. I've removed the section once again. Not only is there no source but the whole paragraph represents nothing but speculation "If the collect had survived to the early 700s." it did not so why have this in the article? ThanksRastov 05:22, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

What are you talking about? The Internet Archive link works perfectly fine for me; it loads and one gets a page, as one should. --Gwern (contribs) 14:26 12 November 2007 (GMT)

Yesterday it was hitting to a 404 from two different computers. Regardless the paragraph is without merit as it talks about where the collection would have gone had it not been destroyed. If it clearly says the Al-Azhar collection contains no alexandrian texts, then why is it included in the article "Library of Alexandria"?Rastov 19:42, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

You don't think such a statement is relevant? If A->B, then surely ~B is an interesting thing to know... --Gwern (contribs) 21:47 12 November 2007 (GMT)

Thats the whole point is not A->B. Its A was destroyed, oh and B exists tooRastov 02:52, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Episodes and characters

An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Episodes and characters/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Episodes and characters/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Picaroon (t) 21:06, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Duly noted. --Gwern (contribs) 02:24 30 November 2007 (GMT)

Disambig and archives

If you are going to fix disambig links, please limit the namespace you are editing on so you don't run the risk of editing talk archives. -- Ned Scott 02:35, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Talk page archives need updating too! --Gwern (contribs) 02:24 30 November 2007 (GMT)

Wiki Wars

We seem to have forgotten about it after it was finished. I cleaned it up today and was wondering if you had any more suggestions before I submit it to Wikipedia:Village pump (miscellaneous) (or if you know of a better place to submit it). Nufy8 (talk) 19:29, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

If I have time. Offhand, one thing I think we didn't do too well on was consistency in naming - and I always wondered whether it was a good idea to have sigs. --Gwern (contribs) 02:26 30 November 2007 (GMT)

I tried removing the sigs but something about it just didn't look right. I think replacing the sigs with the character's name (e.g. --Lord Willy) would look best, but that would take a lot of work. Nufy8 (talk) 03:34, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

I think you could do a search-and-replace of most sigs, which would only break the inconsistent ones anyway. --Gwern (contribs) 18:09 30 November 2007 (GMT)

Re: Lolcatese

Image:Lolcat2.jpg is hilarious, but I think the text could be made more 'lol'; like instead of reading, "I made you an article... but I deleted it", maybe "i writed u an article... but i deleted it"? --Gwern (contribs) 23:32 29 November 2007 (GMT)

All I can say to that is:

– Gurch 01:32, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Lol. I obviously must put that on my user page. But I notice the lolcat2 is still not changed... is my idea so risible? :( --Gwern (contribs) 02:27 30 November 2007 (GMT)

done – Gurch 03:41, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Even better - I like the obese person's suggestion better than my own! --Gwern (contribs) 18:08 30 November 2007 (GMT)

AfD nomination of Captain Obvious

An article that you have been involved in editing, Captain Obvious, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Captain Obvious (3rd nomination). Thank you. lk (talk) 17:24, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Mindless

If you're going to call an edit of mine mindless, please wait until I redirect an article that clearly asserts notability. I fail to see how redirecting a bloated plot summary to section that adequately covers the topic is anything close to mindless. TTN (talk) 15:51, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

You are deleting content without the slightest effort to even vary your edit summaries, much less gather any consensus outside your own head. Your edits are destructive and repetitive, varying not in the slightest. Mindless seems to be perfectly appropriate, as you pay no mind to what others think. --Gwern (contribs) 16:10 10 December 2007 (GMT)

Re: Monad transformer

Thanks. It's just a stub with one reference and one external link. Feel free to expand it! — greenrd (talk) 23:13, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

If I ever learn more than what you wrote, sure! --Gwern (contribs) 13:44 13 December 2007 (GMT)

Re edit summary

Hi, I saw you fixed the link over at Talk:Dune (novel). Thanks for that. I'm confused about your edit summary though. What do you mean by 'fail'? Coldmachine^Talk 10:39, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Nothing in particular; it was just an easy fix. --Gwern (contribs) 13:44 13 December 2007 (GMT)

Re: Fuyutsuki

Hello.

Why did you remove the Fuyutsuki entry from Neon Genesis Evangelion timeline? Does a particular new book invalidate all the existing info giving his birth date as 9 April 1955?

Indeed there are some source that say the birthyear of Fuyutsuki is 1955, but the newest official book "THE ESSENTIAL EVANGELION CHRONICLE SIDE A" (ISBN 978-4789770187, We've Inc. & Sony　Magazines Inc. Japan, 2007/10) declares the Fuyutsuki's age is unknown. Therefore we must not write the birth of Fuyutsuki in NGE's timetable.Rider of Midland (talk) 07:09, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Fuyutsuki was born in 1955 for an awfully long time after all.

No, it has been said on the GAINAX's official site that Fuyutsuki is elder about 10 years old than Gendo Ikari (48), but there had been no official data which showed the birthyear of Fuyutsuki by the publishment of "Evangelion Chronicle" in 2007. After that, "THE ESSENTIAL EVANGELION CHRONICLE SIDE A" reconfirms that Fuyutsuki's age is unknown. We should be subject to the Newest statements.Rider of Midland (talk) 16:37, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Merge proposal

It has been proposed that WP:EPISODE be merged into WP:WAF. Your input is desired, so please comment here. Ursasapien (talk) 11:05, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments on the manga article

I'm one of the folks working on upgrading the manga article. You mention wanting more pictures -- how I wish! But there are two formidable problems. One is copyright -- we need fair use rationales for all such images, and the number we can insert is sharply limited by Wiki procedures. Second is sheer size -- images suck up bandwidth like crazy, and the article is already long. If I had my way, I'd fill the whole article with pictures -- we're on the same wavelength about that! But I don't see how we can do it. In any event, thanks very much for your comments, and we will take them to heart as we continue to work on the article. Timothy Perper (talk) 04:30, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

AfD Nomination: Xmonad

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia! We welcome and appreciate your contributions, but all Wikipedia articles must meet our criteria for inclusion (see What Wikipedia is not and Deletion policy). Since it does not seem that Xmonad meets these criteria, an editor has started a discussion about whether this article should be kept or deleted.

Your opinion on whether this article meets the inclusion criteria is welcome. Please contribute to the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Xmonad. Don't forget to add four tildes (~~~~) at the end of each of your comments to sign them.

Discussions such as these usually last five days. In the meantime, you are free to edit the content of the article. Please do not remove the "articles for deletion" template (the box at the top). When the discussion has concluded, a neutral third party will consider all comments and decide whether or not to delete the article.

Sorry, bad AFD link. Here's the right one. Catofax (talk) 10:40, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I noticed. Rest assured I shall respond as appropriate. --Gwern (contribs) 01:15 24 December 2007 (GMT)

Your peer review comments on manga

One of your comments was that there was no section on shonen manga. We just added it, settling one of the major issues (to both of us, it seems). Thanks. Timothy Perper (talk) 23:37, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Great. It's a nice section. --Gwern (contribs) 02:00 4 January 2008 (GMT)

Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Past-master-book-cover.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Past-master-book-cover.jpg. However, there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please read the instructions at Wikipedia:Non-free content carefully, then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies for fair use. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it will be deleted within a couple of days according to our criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot (talk) 18:46, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Botspam - Dealt With! --Gwern (contribs) 02:00 4 January 2008 (GMT)

Manga Peer Review

Just to let you know that I've replied to the suggestions you made when you peer reviewed the manga article. Timothy Perper (talk) 20:13, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

OK. I've looked at them, and don't really have anything further to say. If there's no room for more pictures, there's no room... --Gwern (contribs) 18:14 8 January 2008 (GMT)

The problem with images is related to what you've just seen, where User:Beyond silence put not only Wikipetan into the article but also another image. Then other people come along (have come along) and remove those images. And it goes round and round in circles. We've had a number of discussions on the talk page about what pictures to use, and consensus has been hard to come by. Personally -- I mean if it were up to me alone -- I'd plaster the article with dozens of images. I think we're on the same wavelength about that.

BTW, I put a reply on my talk page about your observations on the future of Wikipedia.

Timothy Perper (talk) 20:57, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, actually - I'm not thrilled with the image of Wikipetan either. I've always thought it was very ugly and reflective, at best, of a very modern and commercialized style, and certainly not the very first image someone should see. --Gwern (contribs) 17:38 9 January 2008 (GMT)

Re: User:Haza-w/cactions.js

Thanks for the heads-up. As you might have noticed, I've only just returned to WP after a fairly prolonged absence, so I've completely forgotten everything about the script... hopefully I can get back into the flow of things!

Anyhow, the fix has been made. Thanks for noticing. haz (talk) 16:31, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Great. Two less errors cluttering up my error console! --Gwern (contribs) 16:37 10 January 2008 (GMT)

Centralized TV Episode Discussion

Over the past months, TV episodes have been reverted by (to name a few) TTN, Eusebeus and others. No centralized discussion has taken place, so I'm asking everyone who has been involved in this issue to voice their opinions here in this centralized spot, be they pro or anti. Discussion is here [2]. --Maniwar (talk) 18:06, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Finger tree

A tag has been placed on Finger tree, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page appears to have no meaningful content or history, and the text is unsalvageably incoherent. If the page you created was a test, please use the sandbox for any other experiments you would like to do. Feel free to leave a message on my talk page if you have any questions about this.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the article's talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Redfarmer (talk) 20:40, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Done. --Gwern (contribs) 02:49 17 January 2008 (GMT)

The stupid Evil Overlord list entry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil_Overlord_List

Look -- in the External links at the bottom, the first link is incorrectly attributed. LostCoastGaming.com is not Jack Butler's website and he has not asked permission to host that content with us. If you won't let me correct the entry, then I'd ask that you delete it to clear up the misattribution.

Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.111.48.207 (talk) 22:43, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Did you really think "(Copyrighted, but not created by Mr. Anspach, but on the whole a much better list than the one above)" was appropriate? --Gwern (contribs) 22:48 10 February 2008 (GMT)

John Locke

Re. your wikigroan on your talk page: This has since been done, but only because unnecessary commentary was removed from the Lost article (not due to expansion of the philosopher's article). I'm not sure that was your intent :) Ral315 (talk) 20:06, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

It was not! I find this distressing. I shall keep that goal until Locke becomes bigger than the other at its vastest extent. --Gwern (contribs) 00:31 4 March 2008 (GMT)

Raymond E. Feist

Are you interested in the Raymond E. Feist series? Currently, there has been a new Wiki-project set up especially for anything to do with Raymond E. Feists' works and that includes characters, items, places, reces, etc, etc. If you are interested why not sign up at the members section at WP:RAY

Not particularly, but thanks for asking. --Gwern (contribs) 06:27 5 March 2008 (GMT)

Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Past-master-book-cover.jpg

Thank you for uploading Image:Past-master-book-cover.jpg. However, there is a concern that the rationale provided for using this image under "fair use" may not meet the criteria required by Wikipedia:Non-free content. This can be corrected by going to the image description page and add or clarify the reason why the image qualifies for fair use. Adding and completing one of the templates available from Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy. Please be aware that a fair use rationale is not the same as an image copyright tag; descriptions for images used under the fair use policy require both a copyright tag and a fair use rationale.

If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it might be deleted by adminstrator within a few days in accordance with our criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions, please ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot (talk) 16:06, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Ringworld / Orbitals

According to a ref in the Halo (megastructure)/Orbital (The Culture) articles, the Banks version is the inspiration for Halo. However, I won't revert your deletetion because it was simply the wrong place for that info anyway. Cheers Ingolfson (talk) 10:44, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

I am very surprised to hear that. I'm still a mite skeptical because it seems so unlikely, and the ref in 'Halo' doesn't seem very close to the writers, but... --Gwern (contribs) 17:24 16 March 2008 (GMT)

I can see your issues, however you should realise that Banks is very popular as well.Ingolfson (talk) 08:56, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm actually still having trouble getting used to that idea, since I had always thought Banks was a good writer (I've read most of his Culture stuff) but Niven more popular. Goes to show... --Gwern (contribs) 15:46 17 March 2008 (GMT)

Thank you!!!

A million thank yous!

You added a little light to my day when you disambiguated all of those links, so here is a little light for you. - LA @ 01:31, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

If you would like the little ribbon to go along with this, let me know. :) - LA @ 01:31, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Nah, 'sfine. --Gwern (contribs) 01:43 19 March 2008 (GMT)

Gofer (software)

Oops, sorry about deleting those categories... the article was a bit confusing, it seemed like it was just an IDE. I guess the name of the article was also misleading -- Gofer (software) rather than Gofer (programming language).

CRGreathouse (t | c) 23:06, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Yeah; the article sort of says it ('supporting a language based on version 1.2 of the Haskell report') but I'll admit that's hard to draw on. --Gwern (contribs) 23:57 25 March 2008 (GMT)

Revert on Xft

Hey,

You reverted a minor edit of mine on the Xft article, so before you do it again I thought I'd clarify that "free" and "free software" are not usually capitalised in proper English. 62.63.162.71 (talk) 12:10, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Maybe they aren't, but I've always done it; useful for reducing the ambiguity. --Gwern (contribs) 16:13 27 March 2008 (GMT)

Revert of Skuld

You may be interested in the centralized discussion on the return of the main character pages for OMG located here: [3]. Kyaa the Catlord (talk) 04:51, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

• See also User_talk:Kyaa_the_Catlord#Redirect. Black Kite 11:05, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Interesting reading. --Gwern (contribs) 18:09 29 March 2008 (GMT)

Skuld

I assume, therefore, that you are going to improve the article to meet notability and sourcing concerns? I am willing to give it a chance in that case. Black Kite 19:23, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm sure I will, eventually. --Gwern (contribs) 03:49 1 April 2008 (GMT)

Re: Essjay

His old userpage had several automated links which, if you access his userpage, IRC will automatically pop up.... nat.u toronto 20:25, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

I don't follow. I've visited Essjay's user page with a number of browsers, starting long before the scandal, and IRC links have never automatically popped up unless I clicked on them (just like for mailto:, nntp:, ftp:, http: links...).

Are you sure the problem is not a faulty client on your part? --Gwern (contribs) 03:46 1 April 2008 (GMT)

I'm sure it's not... nat.u toronto 04:06, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Cruel Fairytales

An article that you have been involved in editing, Cruel Fairytales, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cruel Fairytales. Thank you. B. Wolterding (talk) 19:31, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Your behaviour on Jim Bell

I was quite disappointed to notice your drive-by removal of an image from the Jim Bell article. There was a lengthy discussion underway on the article's talkpage on the issue, and it was inappropriate of you to unilaterally impose your own version without making an effort to reach consensus with other editors. Wikipedia is built on collaboration, not edit-warring; I urge you to self-revert and come join the discussion on the talkpage about how best to improve the article. Regards, Skomorokh 09:42, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for your most illuminating comment. Skomorokh 16:49, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

I've added my justifcation on the talk page. --Gwern (contribs) 18:17 5 April 2008 (GMT)

Search with Wikipedia

I am not sure to contact regarding this matter, but I saw that you are a pretty active wikipedian and so I thought I would ask. I am very tired of the crappy search engine that wikipedia uses. Is there not some way to mimic google's search where if you misspell something it asks you "Did you mean _____?" or displays close matches to what you are trying to say? If I am unsure how to spell something, it come back blank and then I search google, it finds what I mean, I click yes and then the wikipedia entry comes up on google. Is there anything that can be done?

Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.152.99.117 (talk) 15:17, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

If I were in such a fix, I would Google around with a 'search Wikipedia with Google' query; that should quickly turn up one of several possibilities. Personally, I would go with a Greasemonkey script. (But on the other hand, I wouldn't be doing that anyway, since I want to know when a search fails so I can create redirects.) --Gwern (contribs) 17:45 9 April 2008 (GMT)

images from northwester.edu

I was doing something like this last night (instead of my homework!), and found my way to your userpage, where I was immediately interested by the words "you", "can", "help", "wget" and "upload.py", and the meaning imposed by their relative positions to each other. So, I hacked up a bash script before I went to bed, and I've got 105 of the 148 downloaded. From what testing I did, uploading them all's going to be a bear, especially since the one I tested couldn't really be optimized at all by optipng, so they're all going to be rather large. They should be showing up here, if you're interested. I'll probably need you to go through and give 'em licenses, since I don't know squat about the source. Cheers! Xiong Chiamiov ::contact:: ^help! 16:55, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

With my upload speed of ~58 KB/S, it'll supposedly take about 45 mins just to upload the first 150MB file! Yeah! Xiong Chiamiov ::contact:: ^help! 17:05, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

...though I got an upload size exceeded on the first image. I've have to play around with ImageMagick some. Xiong Chiamiov ::contact:: ^help! 22:31, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm glad to see you're helping out! I added that ToDo item back on my old computer; I would've done it then, but I had basically maxed out my drive space. Fortunately, my new one still has about 300 gigabytes left.

Anyway, as you've found out, there's a filesize limit. After asking in #wikimedia-commons, the thing to do is to convert those TIFFs to PNGs, and then compress them as much as possible. TIFFs compress well, so even if you can't handle the >600 megabyte maps, the others should fit in under the ~20 megabyte size limit. --Gwern (contribs) 00:24 10 April 2008 (GMT)

A nice fellow over at the ref desk wrote a perl script to resize images down to a certain specified filesize, so I'm slowly going through them and resizing and uploading. However, I've gotten the first of the notices that there's no license specified, but I'm not really sure what I should put them as. If I give you a list of the images, will you tag them appropriately? Or even, just tell me what the licensing is so I can do it myself? Xiong Chiamiov ::contact:: ^help! 03:27, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Oh, and should I be uploading these to commons instead? Xiong Chiamiov ::contact:: ^help! 03:28, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Commons, yes, and the license is public domain by reason of age - according to the press releases about the African map collection like this one, they all date from centuries ago. The library cannot claim any copyrights because of the Corel case.

Anyway, I don't think you upload any lossy versions, but if you absolutely must, make sure you link back to the originals! --Gwern (contribs) 03:49 12 April 2008 (GMT)

Ok, so I did a little research and asked a few people, and so I'm uploading them currently to commons with a PD license. I'll have to go through and move the ones I'd already upped. Xiong Chiamiov ::contact:: ^help! 04:19, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Cabal update

The 1.3.x version number is what I saw in the snapshot tar of the dev-repo. Thanks for correcting it :) --OMouse (talk) 23:37, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't think the snapshots are very up to date; Cabal is pretty active, so one needs to follow the darcs repos. Should be interesting when they finally resolve the parallel build and the link problems and can do a stable release (probably won't be in time for GHC 6.8.3 though). --Gwern (contribs) 23:55 9 May 2008 (GMT)

undo at Zui Quan

No reason given. I was mediating that for medcab a while back, but the discussion died. When you undo, can you please provide a summary of why? Xavexgoem (talk) 18:17, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

I'll provide a summary why when he provides a summary, a summary why he's removing a perfectly fine reference. --Gwern (contribs) 18:20 18 May 2008 (GMT)

Cordwainer Smith

<i>fmt</i> Oops, sorry. I've been writing HTML all day. Gordonofcartoon (talk) 20:19, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Don't sweat it. If I hadn't caught it, some bot would've. --Gwern (contribs) 20:27 19 May 2008 (GMT)

requesting speedy-delete of typo Phule's compnay

A tag has been placed on Phule's compnay, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a redirect from an implausible typo.

Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself. If you believe that there is a reason to keep the redirect, you can request that administrators wait a while before deleting it. To do this, affix the template {{hangon}} to the page and state your intention on the article's talk page. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. I would encourage you to write a real article for Phule's company and/or create a redirect to Phule (character) if you think that is more appropriate. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 18:20, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

PS: Robert Asprin passed away a few days ago. I thought you might want to know. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 18:22, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

I had no idea! How terrible; now he cannot finish up Phule's Company or M.Y.T.H. :( --Gwern (contribs) 03:42 26 May 2008 (GMT)

An administrator declined to delete the redirect, so I changed the redirect to Phule (character). In any case, the and the book both deserve at least stubs if not full articles. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 19:11, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

True enough, but lazy as I am, I doubt I will be writing them anytime soon.

(And it is a perfectly plausible typo, as it is very easy to type in the wrong order - I made that typo searching, so I should know!) --Gwern (contribs) 03:42 26 May 2008 (GMT)

RfD nomination of Abortion (murder)

I have nominated Abortion (murder) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) for discussion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at the discussion page. Thank you. delldot talk 01:32, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

I have commented. Although I wonder why all my redirects seem to be coming up for deletion... --Gwern (contribs) 03:43 26 May 2008 (GMT)

Eva quote IP

Agreed; he did it once more after your revert. Willbyr (talk | contribs) 03:06, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

How irksome. We shall have to deal with his vandalism suitably should he not stint his scissions. --Gwern (contribs) 12:37 8 June 2008 (GMT)

RfD nomination of Gaemcube

I have nominated Gaemcube (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) for discussion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at the discussion page. Thank you. Vivio Testarossa^{Talk Who} 21:23, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

RfD nomination of Gamaecube

I have nominated Gamaecube (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) for discussion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at the discussion page. Thank you. Vivio Testarossa^{Talk Who} 21:35, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

User pages

Please don't edit User:RussBot subpages. It doesn't help to disambiguate links on a page that is specifically designed to list links to disambiguation pages. --Russ (talk) 22:01, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Sure. --Gwern (contribs) 15:00 10 July 2008 (GMT)

Galactic Center Saga

Hello, Gwern. You have new messages at Dravecky's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Sorry

Sorry for the mistake that i have made Mimihitam (talk) 13:44, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Gaba Kawa

An article that you have been involved in editing, Gaba Kawa, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gaba Kawa. Thank you. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? Eastmain (talk) 17:29, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Edit summary

You're being uncivil again. Tedickey (talk) 20:24, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Better uncivil than reverting good edits. --Gwern (contribs) 20:30 5 September 2008 (GMT)

Actually it was a poor edit, but given your attitude, it's expected. Tedickey (talk) 20:49, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

You can claim all you like, but repeating what was just said, better, and through a quote will never make a good piece of text, and removing it will always be a good edit. --Gwern (contribs) 10:28 6 September 2008 (GMT)

Piotr Woźniak (researcher)

This is an automated message from CorenSearchBot. I have performed a web search with the contents of Piotr Woźniak (researcher), and it appears to be very similar to another wikipedia page: Piotr Woźniak. It is possible that you have accidentally duplicated contents, or made an error while creating the page— you might want to look at the pages and see if that is the case.

This message was placed automatically, and it is possible that the bot is confused and found similarity where none actually exists. If that is the case, you can remove the tag from the article and it would be appreciated if you could drop a note on the maintainer's talk page. CorenSearchBot (talk) 18:35, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:RuriH.JPG

Thanks for uploading Image:RuriH.JPG. You've indicated that the image is being used under a claim of fair use, but you have not provided an adequate explanation for why it meets Wikipedia's requirements for such images. In particular, for each page the image is used on, the image must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Can you please check

• That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for each article the image is used in.
• That every article it is used on is linked to from its description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --FairuseBot (talk) 22:35, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Consensus poll on Rebuild of Eva 1.0

Folken keeps forcing his edits on the Rebuild of Eva 1.0 article and I keep reverting them to my version, and basically I feel that Folken is ordering us around even though he has no authority to do so because he is not an admin, and he didn't do much to help setting up these articles, only nitpicking on things we wrote. Be that as it may, I feel the only way to stop him from bullying us around is to make a formal vote at Talk:Evangelion: 1.0 You Are (Not) Alone#Summary length for consensus. Heck, vote against my position if you feel that is the proper course of action; the point is that Folken does not have the authority to single-handedly constantly be laying down decisions like this and such decisions should be made, I feel, with the support of the whole project. --Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici (talk) 23:25, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Distributed Proofreaders verb

Re: recent change of verb in the Project Gutenberg article.

Interesting point. However, I have seen in the Distributed Proofreaders forums a number of times, variations on the idea that what is done there is more like transcription than proofreading.

For example here's a quote from [4]

"to be completely accurate, we don't proofread as much as we transcribe. Our job is to make as faithful a copy of the original, warts and all, for posterity. So what we are proofreading is the transcription to make sure it is faithful."

I find this definition of proofread:

• v.tr. To read (copy or proof) in order to find errors and mark corrections.
• v.intr. To read copy or proof for purposes of error detection and correction.

The usual idea there is that in proofreading, you are, using your own knowledge and experience of what is correct, making changes to a not-yet-final copy of a text. On the other hand, at distributed Proofreaders, the end-goal is to produce a digital transcription of a physical book, with the focus nearly always being "match the original page image."

I find a number of possible definition of the verb "transcribe"

• 1. To make a full written or typewritten copy of (dictated material, for example).
• 2. Computer Science To transfer (information) from one recording and storing system to another.
• 3. Music
  • a. To adapt or arrange (a composition) for a voice or instrument other than the original.
  • b. To translate (a composition) from one notational system to another.
  • c. To reduce (live or recorded music) to notation.
• 4. To record, usually on tape, for broadcast at a later date.
• 5. Linguistics: To represent (speech sounds) by phonetic symbols.
• 6. To translate or transliterate.

Often, a key point there is movement from one media to another. This does seem apt for describing what is done at DP.

Ruzulo (talk) 00:25, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Obviously, I disagree. I've done a little work at DP myself, and most of the texts are transcribed by the computer - the scanner and then the OCR software takes the original medium (the physical book) and then spits out text files. That's the transcription right there, per definition 2. The CS definition is the right one to use for this sort of project. Then, when an actual human goes over the text comparing it to the scanned image, what they are doing is precisely what your proofreading definition says: they are doing it 'in order to find errors and mark corrections.' The software can't possibly do the proofreading step, as it's already created text files which are as accurate as it knows how to create. --Gwern (contribs) 17:07 15 October 2008 (GMT)

Thanks for explaining your reasoning. Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that the overall purpose of DP is to produce a digital transcription of a book, and a proofreading segment is a part of that. What do you think? Ruzulo (talk) 01:40, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

I think that would require a little research into aspirations and method. I haven't done work at DP in a while, but as far as I can remember, the produced e-texts maybe aren't really transcriptions but new versions (correcting typos and errors in the original, omitting the illustrations and typography, and so on). --Gwern (contribs) 02:46 21 October 2008 (GMT)

Removal of deletion discussions without archiving

Hello Gwern, I noticed that you removed two closed discussions from the animanga deletion sorting page earlier today. I would like to kindly ask that you refrain from simply removing closed discussions from this page in the future, without first archiving them to our deletion archive. I regularly archive closed discussions myself, so if you don't want to involve yourself in the archival process, you can just leave closed discussions on the page, and I should be along within a day (or two, on weekends) to archive them myself. Thanks in advance! —Dinoguy1000 17:04, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

I see. My mistake. --Gwern (contribs) 17:08 17 October 2008 (GMT)

Re: Cactions bug

You're absolutely right; it was to do with the formatting of MediaWiki's global variables, which I had completely overlooked. It should now be fixed (Ctrl-F5 ought to do the trick). Many thanks for the report, and I hope that you continue to enjoy the tool! haz (talk) 10:07, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Good to hear. --Gwern (contribs) 13:22 24 October 2008 (GMT)

Proposed deletion of Shadowknight

A proposed deletion template has been added to the article Shadowknight, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice should explain why (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised because, even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. Terraxos (talk) 15:01, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

"Not even looking for archive links"

I actually did look for archive links before commenting out the ref, and the particular search terms I used just didn't return the archive link that you were able to find. I'm just saying this to remind you not to assume that people are lazy morons when maybe they just didn't happen to go about the search in the same way you did. Best, —Politizer ^talk/_contribs 16:27, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

You know what ultra-clever search term I used? I went to archive.org - you know, the people who have been archiving websites since '96 - and I put in the the 2 URLs.

Yes, I know. It's really too much of me to expect people to use the Internet Archive for the purpose it's meant for. Why, no doubt most people haven't even heard of it, much less have the technical chops to go to archive.org and use the big search box in the middle of the page.

And it's foolish of me to expect people to know about the detailed, step-by-step instructions for handling dead links at guideline and policy pages like Wikipedia:Citing sources#Repairing dead links. It's a bad problem I have; this isn't the first time (or even the fifth) that this situation has occurred. I'll try to work on my unreasonable demands. --Gwern (contribs) 16:52 15 November 2008 (GMT)

Re Mind Game Film Article...

And it mentions quite a lot the plot section -does-. Which ties into the other problem. If there is plot information so important as to be in the article, it should be -in- the plot section. Plus, all the characters are mentioned in the plot section as well. Lots42 (talk) 21:11, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Hopefully my rewrite will address your issues. It bore out my belief - the summary omitted quite a bit of data. --Gwern (contribs) 23:57 23 November 2008 (GMT)

Haskell function

Haskell function is right, according to lecturer RL —Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.252.234.45 (talk) 13:38, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

I assume you are referring to the recent edits to Haskell such as this.

Your lecturer is wrong. I'm not too shabby a Haskell programmer myself, and let me tell you: the given example is three kinds of wrong and got beaten with the fail stick. I can't even figure out what this example is trying to do!

Let's start with the typesig: 'Int -> Int -> Bool'. Our mystery function takes 2 numbers and does some sort of comparison. The obvious functionalities are 'first is greater than second, equal to second, or lesser than'. But none of those work! Because any Haskeller with an ounce of sanity would write the three functions along the lines of 'foo x y = x > y', 'foo x y = x == y' and 'foo x y = x < y', or perhaps they would treat the problem with the contempt it deserves and write pointless definitions such as 'foo = (==)'. Needless to say, none of these definitions or possible variants go anywhere near a guard construction.

So the type sig is hopeless, and the name 'isBool' is of as little help, as it is either mindnumbingly trivial, or just plain wrong. A 'isBool' function would have the type sig either of 'Bool -> Bool' in which case it is utterly trivial ('isBool = id'), or the type sig would be 'a -> Bool' which is a contradiction, it makes no sense in Haskell and is impossible.

Let's look at the function itself. First and most obviously, 'otherwise false' is wrong in two ways: the boolean literal is 'False', not 'false', and also it would have to be 'otherwise = False'. Secondly, there is no function body, no function name and list of arguments. Presumably what was meant would be 'isBool x | x = True'. This is broken in two ways: firstly, it is ill-typed as there is only 1 argument where the type specifies 2 arguments (partial application isn't even a remote possibility as a literal is being returned, not a function), and secondly it is incredibly stupid - the branch will only be followed if x is True, but if x is True then there was no reason to call isBool! See my earlier comment about triviality.

And I think that's enough. I'm actually pretty impressed at how much utter failure has been packed into 10 tokens there.

Oh, and it will be a cold day in Hell before I allow this 'function' into the article. --Gwern (contribs) 02:43 26 November 2008 (GMT)

lol... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 147.252.234.45 (talk) 11:05, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

A cogent reply, worth of an intellect of your class. --Gwern (contribs) 16:35 27 November 2008 (GMT)

Monads

Sorry about not being a comment in the revert. I wrote one buut the embedded Firefox in my internet tablet ate it. The original lost comment said something like "keep commentary to the talk page".Diego (talk) 17:50, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Commentary is perfectly appropriate in the article; that is what the comment markup exists for. It seems silly to me to start an entire talk page section over a single minor technical point. --Gwern (contribs) 19:26 6 December 2008 (GMT)

And how is one supposed to reply? Diego (talk) 22:04, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

One replies with action. If an appropriate resolution of the raised issue is adding a ref, one adds a ref. If the best solution is removing the commented-upon text, one does that. If the existing material is best left alone, for subtle reasons not apparent to a passing editor, one removes the comment and adds a comment explaining why for future editors. And so on. It's not that hard. --Gwern (contribs) 23:51 6 December 2008 (GMT)

Reverting section links to red-links?

I replaced the red-links with section links. Do you believe that section links are worse than links to pages that have been deleted or merged into a section of a page? --AndrewTJ31 (talk) 01:21, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

I believe it is a very rare page indeed where redirects to sections cannot be suffered to exist. There are many reasons it is better to link to [[Gehirn]] than to [[List of Neon Genesis Evangelion...#Gehirn|Gehirn]]; the DRY principle is crucial in this context.

And they didn't need to be red-links. It is the work of a few seconds to make a satisfactory redirect. --Gwern (contribs) 03:32 12 December 2008 (GMT)

Etheron, California listed at RfD

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Etheron, California. Since you had some involvement with the Etheron, California redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion (if you have not already done so). meco (talk) 17:01, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Noted. --Gwern (contribs) 18:06 12 December 2008 (GMT)

Contesting prod for Awesome (window manager)

I have removed the {{prod}} tag from Awesome (window manager), which you proposed for deletion. I'm leaving this message here to notify you about it. If you still think the article should be deleted, please don't add the {{prod}} template back to the article. Instead, feel free to list it at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion. Thanks!

Yes, I assure you I'm familiar with the PROD process.

I'm still not sure exactly what you're looking for. As I (and a number of other people) said in the talk page after you marked the article as non-notable, either all window managers are notable or none are. With the exception of the glitz of compiz/beryl, none of them have the amount of formal mention that you seem to be looking for. If you want to delete all of the window manager articles from Wikipedia, I guess you could try, although that seems like a markedly non-constructive use of your time. But singling out one? I don't think so. --Roguelazer (talk) 17:58, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

I obviously disagree. I think there are plenty of ways in which window managers are not an 'all-or-nothing' proposition. In no other area of WP are articles all-or-nothing (we have articles on Luke Skywalker etc without articles on Vetter Piin or Docking Bay 18; and so on for every other subject area). Why then are window managers so special?

There are plenty of ways we can distinguish window managers. Desktop Window Manager is notable because as the default Vista WM, it is used by millions, and it is no exaggeration to say that it will ultimately be used by hundreds of millions (and perhaps billions) or people. 9wm and larswm are notable for pioneering the modern automatic tiling paradigm; Ratpoison and Stumpwm are notable for being a divergence among tiling WMs and doing manual rather than tiling (as well as Stumpwm's unusual Common Lisp/interpreter design). KWin and Metacity are notable for much the same reason as Desktop Window Manager. Compiz and Beryl have at least three arguments, holding any numbers of firsts in compositing WMs, popularity, and being research vehicles. twm is the default X.org WM. The UWM (computing) WM is, as far as I can tell, the first X window manager. XMonad has a number of things related to being a research vehicle - being the first to use the zipper in window management, and so on.

You see? Is that so hard? Let's do it for Awesome. Let's see... ah, hm. It was the first window manager to use XCB? Er. Perhaps you can think of a better one.

As for your final argument about singling out - well, Wikipedia:Other stuff exists addresses that better than I could. --Gwern (contribs) 20:01 13 December 2008 (GMT)

Rikdo Koshi

You're missing my point entirely. This is the only article in the category, and the character list is the only other article that fits within it. That makes the category pointless and redundant. TTN (talk) 23:33, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Ah. I did miss your point then. In that case I have no object to removing and deleting that category, especially as Rikdo is already in the character list. --Gwern (contribs) 21:55 25 December 2008 (GMT)

added and updated your page User:Gwern/Nix Package Manager

I added a piece to the User:Gwern/Nix Package Manager article. I updated the links in most cases to http://nixos.org. Please review the additions. please post comments by starting my talk page (Ricgal (talk) 02:39, 4 January 2009 (UTC))

I also started a User talk on the page, to add my voice in support of notability of the article. (Ricgal (talk) 02:37, 4 January 2009 (UTC))

Cool; thanks for the updates. Nix is an interesting topic, and one of the things I've been meaning to get around to doing - the problem is a good article would take quite a bit of time to do. Such an article would need to cover:

• Nix the distribution
• The garbage-collection analogy to file systems
• The Nix language
• The package manager, its hash paths, and how it emulates a conventional Linux system
  • and its advantages/disadvantages compared to other '2nd generation' package managers like [[Zero Install]

This is all available in the theses and papers and websites, but someone needs to read them carefully, taking notes, and putting it all together. I kind of lack time right now, alas. --Gwern (contribs) 03:14 4 January 2009 (GMT)

I suggest creating stub "NixOS" and "Nix package manager" (note capitalization) using your current text. I believe the notability of Nix and NixOS is now established. If you don't have time, I'll be happy to do this. — HowardBGolden (talk) 06:43, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Feel free. --Gwern (contribs) 14:00 26 April 2010 (GMT)

RfD nomination of Combo (computer and video games)

I have nominated Combo (computer and video games) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) for discussion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at the discussion page. Thank you. _ZXCVBNM 21:58, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

OMG edits

like anyone honestly cares about OMG lol?!?!?! who cares about OMG?!?!?! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chicagobearz (talk • contribs) 02:38, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

You did, apparently. --Gwern (contribs) 04:32 13 January 2009 (GMT)

Curious

Can't tell if it's misintentioned ignorance, or if Yusef al-Ayeri is supposed to be the same person as Karim el-Mejjati, but I can't understand your addition of an external link about KeM to an article about a seemingly-unrelated person. Sherurcij ^{(speaker for the dead)} 05:13, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

It's a cite for al-Ayeri being head in Saudi Arabia. --Gwern (contribs) 05:20 15 January 2009 (GMT)

Library images

Ah, I had forgotten about that completely. All of whatever I had is long gone, but perhaps this weekend I'll take a look at this and throw some sort of script on my server for it to chug away at. Xiong Chiamiov ::contact:: ^help! 08:52, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

No rush - it's not like the library server is going away anytime soon. And IIRC, a number of those images would still be over Commons' limit. So it might make sense to just wait until we can do a proper job of it. --Gwern (contribs) 22:38 25 January 2009 (GMT)

A RfC you participated in is being discussed

• Laws are like Sausages Ikip (talk) 13:43, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks ...

... for catching my error at Zeno of Elea. Paul August ☎ 22:18, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

NP. I was sure that was just an error from how the introduction was written. --Gwern (contribs) 22:39 25 January 2009 (GMT)

Jack King (NASA)

Thank you for the rename on Jack King (NASA). Can you explain the comment "are you kidding?" TJRC (talk) 22:37, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

If you can't see how the original name violated guidelines, and was horrible in at least 3 distinct ways, then I can't really explain it to you. --Gwern (contribs) 02:11 7 February 2009 (GMT)

My apologies, I didn't realize you valued your incivility over education. I guess since you're not willing to explain, I won't know not to make the mistake in the future. Thanks for nothing. TJRC (talk) 19:38, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Terrence Webster-Doyle

Someone has nominated Terrence Webster-Doyle, an article that you created, for deletion. The discussion is at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Terrence Webster-Doyle. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. Richard Hock (talk) 17:21, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Great Jedi Purge and Order 66

Best Gwern, the Great Jedi Purge is not self Order 66, Order 66 was but a part of the Great Jedi Purge. Tim Auke Kools (talk) 19:24, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

And this would be in regard to...? --Gwern (contribs) 20:20 14 February 2009 (GMT)

A little something for you...

		The Lonely Geek Barnstar
		This barnstar is in honor of your depressing, unloved presence on IRC on Valentine's Day, 2009. Roses and kisses work for some, but you, noble Wikipedian, have important things to discuss on the internet with people you barely know who you'll probably never meet. Here's to you! FlyingToaster 20:44, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Th- thanks? --Gwern (contribs) 23:35 14 February 2009 (GMT)

I can't help but chuckle at this (and then die a little inside as I realize it describes me, too (except for the IRC part)). =/ 「ダイノガイ千？！」^{(Dinoguy1000)} 01:36, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

I knew you were one of us when I noticed you correctly nested your parentheses. --Gwern (contribs) 02:02 18 February 2009 (GMT)

Indeed, I can't stand incorrectly nested (or worse, unclosed) parenthetical thoughts... 「ダイノガイ千？！」^{(Dinoguy1000)} 08:25, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

"Fixing" links in old archived deletion discussions

Is it really necessary to modify links in old archived deletion discussions, as you did here? It seems counterproductive, in that you could be changing the meaning of someone's comments by making it appear that someone linked to something different than what they intended. What purpose is served by this change? Wouldn't it make more sense to obey the note at the top of the page in big red letters, "Please do not modify it"? —David Eppstein (talk) 18:34, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Yes. And I'm not, unless you can show an example where someone meant the obscure item from a nigh-forgotten American show and not the web site that Wikipedians use routinely in deletion discussions. It serves to link people where they meant, and to reduce the number of ambiguous links. And not really. --Gwern (contribs) 18:50 22 February 2009 (GMT)

Blub

Well done with the Blub edit on Paul Graham! I didn't realize the concept was so widely discussed. Binarybits (talk) 21:59, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Yes. Perhaps now you understand why I was a little irritated by your removals; Blub could practically be a stand-alone article! --Gwern (contribs) 02:46 25 February 2009 (GMT)

Bot updates?

I think you used to have a bot update pages such as Wikipedia:Pages needing attention/Japan. Do you still do that, or do you know which bots do this? Thanks! ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 05:07, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

'fraid it wasn't me; I have no idea! I'd check the history to see if that'd do the trick. --Gwern (contribs) 14:48 11 March 2009 (GMT)

It's not my fault

Hello (Marudubshinki) Gwern,
I am the user 87.6.52.181: Piero on Italian Wikipedia (total edits: 4146; first edit: 2004).
Today (4 April 2009) in my work I have consulted your Wiki (which I admire) and I saw that you have done [5].
It is not my work.
My IP address changes every time I connect to the Internet (dynamic IP address). For example:

87.10.55.202 in 29 November 2007
82.58.25.74 in 13 January 2008
82.58.22.110 in 14 June 2008

Sorry for my English very poor...
Sincerely
Piero —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.6.52.181 (talk) 10:51, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Um. Ok. --Gwern (contribs) 13:38 4 April 2009 (GMT)

Awesome (window manager)

I have expanded the original article, dug up some new references, and corrected some of the errors. I have also taken the liberty of removing the stub template and replacing it with expand template with a short TODO list of topics that need (more) coverage on the talk page. I hope that the page is now able to stand on its own feet. --Foxbunny (talk) 11:26, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Replied on the talk. --Gwern (contribs) 22:56 24 April 2009 (GMT)

History of the crossbow

I like the new material, but would prefer if I had opinions from more scholars. Can you help? Wandalstouring (talk) 11:46, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Nope, sorry. I was just going through Needham, is all. --Gwern (contribs) 23:42 6 May 2009 (GMT)

Birthday of David Weber

Please visit Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#David_Weber. Debresser (talk) 19:36, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Thank for providing an alternative point of view related to B. Herbert books

Thank you for providing an alternative point of view related to B. Herbert books. I had sometime the feeling that wikipedia articles related to his contribution to the Dune saga were just commercial advertisement. Nobody seems to wrote about the deep difference of writing style, the change of main story frame, the lower language level/style, the strange similarities with the star wars saga etc (compared to his father job). Thank you a lot for giving a deeply different point of view and avoiding wikipedia becoming just a simple boring equivalent of amazon... :) Oc.Gal. (talk) 03:41, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

I haven't done that much w/r/t the terrible duo's stuff; I really try to stick to Frank's work. Better sources, and it's what's worth spending time on. (Not to mention, Willbyr deserves as much credit as I.) --Gwern (contribs) 13:25 13 May 2009 (GMT)

Category:Free Haskell software

Hey, is there a reason why you've moved Category:Free software programmed in Haskell to Category:Free Haskell software? I could not find any discussion on this move. It is now the only programming language that is named differently in Category:Free software by programming language. If there's no reason to deviate from the other category names, could you move it back to Category:Free software programmed in Haskell? Simeon (talk) 23:16, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

It's there because 'programmed in' is an absurd category name. It is lengthy, unnecessary, and utterly unguessable. --Gwern (contribs) 23:44 31 May 2009 (GMT)

Eratosthenes

Thanks for fixing it. I did leave most of the info. up deliberately so if someone spent time doing a search could find another version of the missing pdf document, but next time I will leave a as well... Stevenmitchell (talk) 20:15, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

NICE interface modification: We need more users!

Hello. I am one of the developers of the NICE tool and the related study's contact person. I hope you have been finding the modification helpful so far. We have been gathering users for a little over a month now, but we haven't gotten as many users as we had hoped. We'd appreciate it if you would share the NICE tool with any editors that might find it useful. --EpochFail ^{(talk|contribs)} 16:42, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Can't say I've noticed what it does, actually. --Gwern (contribs) 19:10 29 June 2009 (GMT)

You should notice a change in the interface when you are undoing edits. Sometimes the change only happens when you are undoing the work of a certain class of editor. What browser/operating system are you using? I could ensure that we support it for you. --EpochFail ^{(talk|contribs)} 19:48, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Oh, it's just that 'think twice' message when reverting new users' edits? Then yes, I guess I noticed it. (I was expecting something more drastic, I'll admit.) --Gwern (contribs) 01:13 26 February 2010 (GMT)

It sounds like you are seeing what you are supposed to now. Once we push out the full tool, the changes should make more sense. --EpochFail ^{(talk|contribs)} 14:19, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Bots

So have you created any more bots to cause trouble? 69.243.42.251 (talk) 19:25, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes; my sinister wp-archivebot will trouble the sysadmins of webcitation.org for decades to come! --Gwern (contribs) 02:33 22 July 2009 (GMT)

Star Wars articles bounty

Hey, I'm pretty new to this bounty stuff, but I just saw this post. Is this still up for grabs? A couple of months ago I got Star Wars: Rogue Squadron promoted to FA. Would this qualify? --Torsodog^Talk 21:47, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

It would count, yes. --Gwern (contribs) 22:22 2 August 2009 (GMT)

Full version of NICE to be released

Thanks for helping me and my colleagues test the NICE interface modification. Depending on when you installed the tool, you were only presented with a specific subset of the features we have developed. We are ready to roll out the full feature set which, we expect, will make the gadget significantly more useful. Before we do that, we'd like you to answer a few questions about your activity in Wikipedia as it relates to undoing other's edits and what you thought of the NICE features you were shown.

The survey will ask for your Wikipedia username, but you can participate anonymously if you choose. To do so, send me an email with an address I can respond to and I will have the survey software respond with an anonymous token for you to continue. --EpochFail ^{(talk|contribs)} 17:46, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for finishing the survey! You have been moved to the full feature set. Don't forget to update your cache. --EpochFail ^{(talk|contribs)} 15:06, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Manga and anime of nge

i disagree with spliting the article of nge anime and manga. of course they would have different people owrking on the manga then on the anime but it still retains to the series. Also the manga has very low information and has practically the same information the anime has but a little more detailed.Bread Ninja (talk) 16:14, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Very low information? Practically the same? Where would the bibliography go, the publishing history, the character differences, the list of chapters/plot summary (have you seen that article?) - where would all that go? If the manga article makes sense to merge in, every Eva article makes sense to merge in. --Gwern (contribs) 23:25 4 September 2009 (GMT)

EXACTLY! now your thinking like a true contributor. But of course not everything should merge. just most of the articles out there. Like neon genesis evangelion spin offs and doujinshi and spin off games that hold no real importance to the series (Ayanami Raising Project • Shinji Ikari Raising Project • Iron Maiden (2nd) • Neon Genesis Evangelion • Shinji and Good Friends • Evangelion 2 • Battle Orchestra) should be removed and briefly mentioned. The movie should have it's own article since it holds nobility, but the manga deserves to be in the anime.

'like a true contributor'. No true Scotsman. Just going by numbers like edit count or tenure, I'm a hell of a lot more of a contributor than deletionists like you.

You make all sorts of broad claims. Why on earth would we delete the games and manga articles? If they were never part of the Eva franchise, they would still be notable for being games or manga; in some cases, they've made it all the way into English, which is rare even for major Japanese media.

And again, you've made no coherent argument that the manga belongs in the anime article. I've pointed out, here and elsewhere, several reasons that they are best separate; they are distinct works by different people (did Sadamoto write or storyboard Eva TV or the movies? NO, HE DID NOT. He was character designer, naught else.), they are most maintainable in this format, they both satisfy even the most stringent notability requirements (not every anime spawns a multi-billion dollar franchise; not every manga sells multiple millions over its decade or so run), etc. The most you can muster is 'the manga deserves to be in the anime'.

anyways publishing history? bibliography? it's nothing but simple wording. bibliography is just another way saying list of volumes without chapters. publishing history and critical success? basically reception with trivial information. these articles look like work of a fan. Some of the information is unnecessary. Look at the Rozen Maiden article and the Blood+ article. they are written in summary and dont take up most of the space over one plot or inspiration.

Mere wording? Indeed! Bibliography is critical to referencing, critical to 'where has it been published/where does it sell', basic information. Would one remove information like atomic weight or acidity or density from articles on elements? No, of course not; it may not interest one very much, but it is very important if one does need it (say, for an interlibrary loan).

Also: those 2 articles are terrible. Their plot sections read like advertisements and they say nothing about sources - both things which are the absolute most basic information one would expect in a didactic work. :Can you imagine Hamlet's article under the absurd regime you and others propose? '== Plot == \n Hamlet is a Danish prince, whose father has untimely died. With his recently returned friend Laertes and his stalwart sidekick Horatio, Hamlet must grapple with his uncle's usurpation and also deal with his feelings for Ophelia! == Inspiration == \n None, because covering the sources for Hamlet is OR and we wouldn't want to take up space for 'inspiration'. Now, let's read at tedious length about the awards Hamlet won and let's take up half the page with templates, templates, and more templates! And then a few assessments and wikiprojects and categories while we're at it.'

Also we should remove the neon genesis evanlion logo and add the DVD cover OR the manga first volume. Highly suggest manga first volume, since it was the first promotional item that released from the series (if we agree to merge the articles).

'now your thinking like a true contributor'. Of course, we did have manga covers at one point. I wonder whether I could count on your help against the fair use nazis were a cover re-uploaded... somehow I doubt it.

Now let's focus on the big problems, the anime article needs a lot of clean up. too much trivial information. We should re-summaries/delete Origin and production,Inspiration and symbolism, Psychology and psychoanalytic theory, Religion, Fiction and philosophy, Translation notes on the title, Further reading. I highly suggest we delete Further reading, Religion, and inspiration and symbolism and references to other media. the article itself is to give a brief explanation about the series (which has turned into separate articles), it's not suppose to explain every little theory, assumption and notes unless it affects the series itself. end of evangelion description is far too long. there's already a separate article so there's no need for a summary as long as the plot.

Why should we do any of that? We have references for much of that (except oh I forgot, they're not 'real' references), and they're very helpful for readers since that is what they are interested in. When I see the Evangelion article mentioned outside the echo-chamber of Wikipedia with editors like you dominating discourse, do you know what parts they cite as being most informative, most educational? Precisely the parts you want to delete wholesale (again, with no arguments other than a bald assertion that the articles isn't 'suppose to' do that. What are you basing this on, your extensive editing experience?).

And there's on other thing.....timeline of NGE? what is that suppose to be? just an article with a timeline? that shouldn't even exist in Wikipedia. Every summary, plot, description should be revised and summarized to 200-500 words.

I've long been ambivalent about the timeline article. The universe is pretty complex and the timeline is educational and helps the reader put the various dates and events together, but it can probably be merged into the franchise article with minimal loss.

this is what an article of anime/manga series should look like

-Series description name, when it was serialized, small description of the series.

-Plot

• Setting
• story

-characters

• small description of the main characters

-Production

• small description of the production and inspiration

-other media

• anime
• manga (if available)
• spin off, side stories (if available)
• games (if available)
• soundtrack
• remakes (if there are remakes)

-Reception

• small description of reception

now for the side articles. Side articles to support the main article.

-list of 'title' chapters

an article showing the list of volumes and chapters

-list of 'title' episodes

an article showing the list of episodes (this already seems to be done so no worries here)

-list of 'title' characters

not really important since it is already made)

-Movie articles

article about a movie based off the main series. If the movie hit a certain reception and had obtain nobility, then it may be allowed to exist as a separate article but with a small description added in the main article (under 'other media')

Movies fundamentally have their own notability. Any of them 'obtain nobility [sic]'. We merged Death and Rebirth together because artistically they were one unit. But why would we put EoE anywhere? Or consolidate any of the Rebuild movies?

Any other article out there should not exist.

'because I say so'. Whatever.

[[[User:Bread Ninja|Bread Ninja]] (talk) 17:01, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Dont you have anything to say?Bread Ninja (talk) 16:52, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

I do; but that doesn't mean I have unlimited time to reply to you. --Gwern (contribs) 13:19 14 September 2009 (GMT)

now that's rude.Bread Ninja (talk) 15:28, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

No, it's the reality of life, especially during the academic year. If you wanted editors to have unlimited time, you should've started all this during the summer. --Gwern (contribs) 15:43 15 September 2009 (GMT)

trust me, you had time. i can tell, you were on that day and you posted something. dont act like you werent ignoring. either way it's in the talk page.

Posted trivial things, things that take a second or two, things I ran into while researching or reading other things. And if that's you, BN, you might want to remember to log in... --Gwern (contribs) 16:28 18 September 2009 (GMT)

Sword of Justice

Hello, thanks for your message. With regards to the DP POV, I surpose it's a little bit far fetched, and with further thought I'd not have made the edit, but "appropriate" gives a slight justification for the DP, where ever small. Feel free to revert if you wish :P Kind regards, --Île_flottante~Floating island ^Talk 16:46, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

I still don't know what pro-DP means, so I guess I'll just revert it... --Gwern (contribs) 16:51 14 September 2009 (GMT)

DP is an abreviation of Death penalty. --Île_flottante~Floating island ^Talk 17:25, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Eva

No worries. :) To be a bit more clear about why I find Evangelion particularly tiring, I first watched Evangelion when I was far too young to appreciate it. It was sprung on me by my older brother, I was expecting something far more conventional and cheerful, and I retain an antipathy. I watched episodes 1 through 26 once, tried to read vol 1 of Angelic Days years later (and failed dismally), and I have not delved further into Evangelion's canon. However, I think that most of the Evangelion suite of articles are likely to be notable, if one can find the sources to prove that. Is there any particular reasoning why Fujie and Manabu Tsuribe meet WP:RS? Being able to prove that they do would help enormously. --Malkinann (talk) 01:08, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Well, Angelic Days isn't all that great. You should've tried something more major like the movies or actual Eva manga, not stuff which is truly only licensed for the money they'll bring in.

As for Fujie - it's a published, real book, so I used it. I don't know about Tsuribe (did I add those?). --Gwern (contribs) 13:10 15 September 2009 (GMT)

I don't know if you added Tsuribe or not, but I figured you might know more about him than me. Tsuribe doesn't look like he counts for a "reliable source", so that particular proposal, as I understand it, has been modified to removing the Neon_Genesis_Evangelion_(anime)#Fiction_and_philosophy section from "Existential themes of individuality..." to the end. --Malkinann (talk) 22:03, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Well, before you get too cut-happy, keep in mind that a little digging will show you that Tsuribe's essay was originally published in Otaku Fanzine 10 (1999); and that it's been cited by, among others, http://intersections.anu.edu.au/issue7/broderick_review.html which is the online copy of a paper published in Intersections: Gender, History and Culture in the Asian Context Issue 7, March 2002. --Gwern (contribs) 12:14 16 September 2009 (GMT)

Thanks :) Is there anything else you know about Otaku Fanzine? If a case can be made for it like for Aestheticism, we're in like Flynn. ;) --Malkinann (talk) 22:51, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Not really. It's a difficult name to search for.

I did find an entry in Google Books at http://books.google.com/books?id=nWBJNwAACAAJ which appears to be a cut-down copy of the WorldCat entry at http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/51831601 and I found another citation of OF in LexisNexis (I've emailed you a copy), in a legal article which cites a "History of Anime" article (the given URL is dead, but Internet Archive has it at http://web.archive.org/web/20021204224100/http://www.animedorks.com/history.html & I suspect the entire dead animedorks.com site has valuable info eg. look at an old homepage of it, http://web.archive.org/web/20010204194300/http://www.animedorks.com/). The legal article is "Like Holding a Bird: What the Prevalence of Fansubbing Can Teach Us About the Use of Strategic Selective Copyright Enforcement", by Sean Kirkpatrick, Spring, 2003 vol 21 Temple Environmental Law & Technology Journal J. 131. --Gwern (contribs) 15:05 19 September 2009 (GMT)

davfs2

Hi Gwern, awhile back, you copy-edited the davfs2 article. It's now going through an AfD... If you have time could you help with the article? I did some of the latest work trying to improve it, but it may be insufficient to keep it around. Please help if you can/care. Thanks! --Mokhov (talk) 05:20, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm afraid I don't particularly care or have anything to add to that discussion. :) I don't even remember why I copyedited it (or that I did). FWIW, you have enough keep votes that it'll be kept unless a deletionist admin closes it. --Gwern (contribs) 11:10 15 September 2009 (GMT)

Rebuild of Evangelion

Re these 2 edits: Well as far as I can make out, so far there are only two of them. Therefore, I don't think they would count as a "tetralogy", as the third and fourth don't yet exist. Also, as per WP:NCF, anything other that a "trilogy", should be referred to as a "series". Is there any reason why you need these to be called "tetralogy"? What's wrong with "series"? - good old plain english. Rob Sinden (talk) 14:46, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm going to change the text slightly - hopefully this will keep us both happy. (although I really don't like using tetralogy but in this case it seems quite clear this is what is intended). Rob Sinden (talk) 14:56, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

I've also restructured the opening paragraph slightly, as it mentions future dates for films that were released in 2007. Think it's better now. Still not sure about the necessity for "tetralogy" though :) - Rob Sinden (talk) 15:11, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Well, I dislike 'series' because that sounds so indefinite. Inuyasha or Dragon Ball movies, these are series - just one movie after another, with no particular connection, done as profitable. It conveys a sense of haphazardness, that these individual works are connected only by historical accidents like their creators, or by being set in similar fictional universes, etc.

Rebuild, on the other hand, is guaranteed to finish out all 4 planned movies (since Eva is and always has been ridiculously popular/profitable), and I believe SNOW says that things that are essentially guaranteed are not considered covered under it. Further, the works form a relative artistic unity: they're going to cover the basic arcs of the TV anime and redo the ending again. Like Lord of the Rings, you'll be able to sit down and watch a full story arc, from the first time Shinji shows up to NERV to the aftermath of Third Impact (whatever that's like in this version). If 'tetralogy' is more accurate than 'series', why not use it? WP:NCF says "When trilogies are often referred to as such by outside sources, their articles may be titled Series name trilogy."; I believe my Google link (and Wikipedia's articles) show that 'tetralogy' is commonly used for Rebuild.

Now, using 'intention' inserts more uncertainty than is truly there. The tetralogy will be made. There's no doubt about that. But unless I've managed to convince you, I'm not going to object, since it's not that important. --Gwern (contribs) 15:51 18 September 2009 (GMT)

Autoblock

Thanks. --Gwern (contribs) 20:05 21 September 2009 (GMT)

---

As before, thanks.

3 Popes

Hi Gwern, see: Pope Leo XI; the little known Medicean Pope! Have a nice day. -- Jack1755 (talk) 22:54, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

HAPPI Highlighting: custom colors

I've set up a test environment that should allow you to style the HAPPI edit pane in any way you want. I've set up an example in one of my alternat accounts. You'll have to do two things to give this a try:

1. Create User:Gwern/TruthinessWordPersistence.css and modify it for your own colors (see User:PermaNoob/TruthinessWordPersistence.css).
2. Switch the importScript() call for HAPPI from importScript("User:EpochFail/HAPPI.js") to importScript("User:EpochFail/HAPPI_test.js").

Once we get this feature worked out and I merge the change to HAPPI.js, I'll have you switch back to that version since I use the HAPPI_test.js for testing and I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate seeing my debugging while you are trying to edit. --EpochFail ^{(talk|contribs)} 20:25, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Have you had a chance to give it a try? Did it work for you? --EpochFail ^{(talk|contribs)} 14:55, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

No, sorry. I copied my CSS, so I don't really know what I would add to make that work. --Gwern (contribs) 17:06 8 October 2009 (GMT)

If you copied the content from User:PermaNoob/TruthinessWordPersistence.css to User:Gwern/TruthinessWordPersistence.css, the highlighting pane would have a black background with yellow text and dark red highlighting. I couldn't really figure out a good way for the coloring to work with green as the default text color. I suggest giving that a try first and letting me know how it works out. If those colors won't work, I'd be happy to help you work out the CSS for new ones. --EpochFail ^{(talk|contribs)} 22:03, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Incremental reading

Thanks for the headsup, in either case, the content deserved to be removed. Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 11:05, 7 October 2009 (UTC).

List of mission to Hamburg

Hi Gwern, I've expanded the intro of List of diplomatic missions in Hamburg as you suggested here. Maybe you can have a 2nd look? Cheers. Sebastian scha. (talk) 18:29, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Hi again, I mentioned the port (and added a nice colored big world map). Cheers. Sebastian scha. (talk) 20:50, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Looks very nice! --Gwern (contribs) 21:16 23 October 2009 (GMT)

Hi there, it's me again. Do you think the list is okay to go at FAL now? Sebastian scha. (talk) 17:10, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Couldn't tell you. I have no idea what the madmen at FAL or FA demand; I just review the article as it looks good or bad to me. Maybe if you offered them the head of Willy the mail boy? --Gwern (contribs) 20:01 27 October 2009 (GMT)

Otaku Fanzine

Otaku Fanzine's credentials are again being questioned by Bread-Ninja over here - did you ever end up finding anything more about Otaku Fanzine cited as a source? I may have to take it to the reliable sources noticeboard soon to determine if the Tsuribe article can be used as a source for the "fiction and philosophy" segment of the article. --Malkinann (talk) 18:28, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

You probably should. I've been reading through the back archives of OF, and while Tsuribe's essay (http://web.archive.org/web/20020816071942/http://www.animedorks.com/issues/10/evae.html) is so far the most useful thing there, there's also http://web.archive.org/web/20020816072841/www.animedorks.com/issues/10/evadvds.html which claims "This is a story told to me by numerous unrelated people and that I've seen a couple of times on the web. It could easily just be hearsay, or just be partly true, but it does sound a lot like how both ADV and Gainax do business. So take it as a "rumor" and have your grain of salt ready. You see, a looooong time ago, when ADV brought the final translations and dubs of the first EVA tapes to Gainax for final approval before duplication and distribution, Gainax was appauled! They heard the dub and did not like it. They ordered ADV to redo it, to which ADVision's people replied "Sorry, it has already shipped". Gainax has not been happy with them since and because of ADV's unwillingness to play by G's rules, we, the Gaijin Consumers, get screwed bigtime".

Curiously, someone on the Eva ML raised almost the same issue, that apparently Gainax had veto authority over the English translation: http://eva.onegeek.org/pipermail/evangelion/2009-October/004932.html Cited to a different fanzine; but worth including if true. --Gwern (contribs) 03:36 29 October 2009 (GMT)

Gion Shōja

A tag has been placed on Gion Shōja, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a redirect to a nonexistent page.

If you can fix this redirect to point to an existing Wikipedia page, please do so and remove the speedy deletion tag. However, please do not remove the speedy deletion tag unless you also fix the redirect. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. R'n'B (call me Russ) 20:42, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Signature

Hey just a tip I learned from the good people of wiki and to pass along to others, if you use ~~~~. at the end of your siggy, it is alot easier to do than to type it out straight. Good luck =) - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 21:57, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

It's even easier to use my 1337 knowledge of templates and MediaWiki to sign the same way, with just ~~~. --Gwern (contribs) 22:06 31 October 2009 (GMT)

AfD nomination of Chronology of Star Wars

An editor has nominated one or more articles which you have created or worked on, for deletion. The nominated article is Chronology of Star Wars.

Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Chronology of Star Wars (2nd nomination). Ikip (talk) 09:25, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Have a nice day!

Hello Gwern, HappyInGeneral (talk) has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Go on, smile! Cheers, and happy editing!
Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Wikia

you appear to have Wikia thinking. maybe you should try contributing there aswell, or maybe you already due.Bread Ninja (talk) 16:13, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Working on a Wikia has major disadvantages compared to working on Wikipedia; see http://community.haskell.org/~gwern/wiki/Wikipedia%20And%20Other%20Wikis.page

And if further proof were needed - which one? That I even have to ask shows that it's a bad idea. --Gwern (contribs) 17:52 12 November 2009 (GMT)

Re: HAPPI issue on IE8

I looked into the issue you brought up. I still haven't figured it out yet, but you can see my comments on my talk page. --EPOCHFAIL^(talk|work) 22:40, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

More replies on my talk. TL;DR is no solution yet, but I've bandaged it so at least editing won't be impossible in IE. --EpochFail^(talk|work) 00:18, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Dead links

{{Talkback}}

Hello, Gwern. You have new messages at Allen4names's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

The Politics...

I've never read it, your interpretation sounds good. Lapsed Pacifist (talk) 18:48, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Yes, I did miss it!

User:Gwern/RETAKE. Black Kite 05:45, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Gwern

please be more civil. talking negative about a specific person even if the person isnt there, is rather uncivil. like i said, you have a tone of a fan. please try to keep yourself neutral as possible.Bread Ninja (talk) 19:33, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

You are wherever you choose to be; there is no 'there' on Wikipedia. As ever, if you have complaints, you must be specific. Neutrality is an attribute of the content; from the first paragraph of WP:NPOV, emphasis added: 'All Wikipedia articles and other encyclopedic content must be written from a neutral point of view...' --Gwern (contribs) 19:44 30 November 2009 (GMT)

hey Gwern i finally found the WP: that actually supports most of what i have been saying this whole time. just wanting to let you know that WP:NPS discourages long overlength first sources and encourages to paraphrase. that includes quotes and the reference list. just so people dont think i'm simply going by WP:ILIKEITBread Ninja (talk) 15:17, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Yes, BN, I know of NPS. In fact, I knew of it well before your first comments mentioning it as a possible tool for you to use. You will note that besides being a guideline, it says to avoid including the entire source, to quote only fractions of a source. In all the NGE articles, never do I quote the entirety of a source - only fractions. NPS is perfectly satisfied. --Gwern (contribs) 15:46 11 December 2009 (GMT)

the thing is that it asks about too long primary sources. even if they are cut up into pieces, it still equals alot more than it should. And this doesnt apply to just "quotes" either Still i also think WP:INDISCRIMINATE also applies to what i talked about in th discussions.Bread Ninja (talk) 01:13, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

I don't think I can see any example of the Eva article reproducing primary sources in their entirety. By the way, I can't see how NPS would apply in any way to the list, since we're not even reproducing anything, it's already a summary, and it has even been condensed since we last discussed it.

Using WP:INDISCRIMINATE is just another way of saying "trivial" or "fancruft", and the problem remains: you failed to convince anyone that the content you're targetting would be indiscriminate/trivial/fancruft. There is a consensus, have the decency to respect it. If you don't like it, at least try to understand it instead of brushing it off.Folken de Fanel (talk) 13:54, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

that's because i'm mainly talking to a baised bunch of fans. believing every piece of information is important no matter how unnecessarty it is. INDISCRIMINATE is basically supporting. i'm tired of you treat me like crap and i know you dont care. but honestly this is between two WP: people! you just don't but in! if you want to discuss it to bring it to mine! or aask someone permission to join!

Everyone has permission to talk on my talkpage. If I had an issue with Folken commenting here, depend upon it: he would be the first to know. --Gwern (contribs) 23:18 12 December 2009 (GMT)

INDISCRIMINATE talks about info even if they have reliable sources or verifiable. the list of posssible multiple itnerpretations can fall in plot, and maybe statistics depending on how it's viewed . WP:INDISCRIMINATE is a substitute. the information rather is unnecessary. I'm going to call it "fan-info" for now. small tiny pieces of info that really aren't necessary to be kept. even if they are all together in one list. it's just as trivial, not necessary in anyway. doesn't help, it confuses readers (if it confused me imagine first time readers) and it doesn't connect to the paragraph as well.

that's also a format most NGE articles are taking, in forms of list which is not the best choice. Keeping info for the sake of promoting each piece (which really isn't)

there are major problem with it and you know it. like i said in the past, it's either adding every single piece of religious reference ever to appear in NGE or none at all or use one as an example to represent all. Either way, info is not necessary. i know your a fan, and would like to keep as much as you like, so am i. but even i know when something is not necessary at all to be added or when there is.

yes, religious reference in general is significant to the story, but not every single one individually are more significant than the other. it is fancruft to believe one or a small group of them are more important than the others or to list the only few that have. that's why i said either all or none or one as an example to represent all. Also none of these religious references were confirmed within NGE universe. they are all someone's belief. while the creators denied it and said had multiple interpretations. the list also does not help with WP:NPOV

after that, it all went down to religion being significant in general so it must be ok to list in general. the main problem with contributors in NGE whether it's negative or not, is that no one is proposing enough, or when someone does, it's either support or deny, there's no room for adding a new ideas to move things alone. All of you just deny, or when there is support, hardly anything is done. for example when malkinann proposed all the game articles to be merged, was anything done? same for my other recent propositions. for now i wont use "fancruft" and use something much more specific like WP:LISTCRUFT which is far more specific and might be the sole problem with some NGE articles. for instance Neon Genesis Evangelion: Angelic Days which also falls in WP:INDISCRIMINATE and Evangelion: 1.0 You Are (Not) Alone Original Sound Track and of courseNeon Genesis Evangelion (anime) and by NGE anime i don't mean just the list of religious references although that is one of the issues.

Also the list itself is merely talkinga bout areas where people have made assumptions rather a list of religious references that were explained with in the animeBread Ninja (talk) 23:13, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Ping

I have sent you an e-mail. --Tenmei (talk) 17:01, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

NGE template edits, and a question

The template edits look good. *two thumbs up*

I wish I could get the left column to have less whitespace, and I was thinking of moving the portal link up into the title bar.

Say, just curious - have you paid any attention to the NGE material at TV Tropes? I've moved my attention to those pages, trying to keep them in as good a shape as I can information- and format-wise, but I'd appreciate some advice/info/error checking from someone else to see if there's anything truly erroneous or outrageous that needs to be corrected. Willbyr (talk | contribs) 05:54, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

I've seen it once or twice (I try to avoid TvTropes). Was there anything specific? Personally, I'd remove the Springtime for Hitler theory; I've seen nothing supporting that (Gainax already had plenty of losses) and it seems likely a very warped telephone-game version of the tax evasion issues. Nor am I sure Mana really counts as an 'ascended extra', unless you want to see Mari=Mana. Fanfics aren't very important. Do we see enough of Mari to characterize her as a cloud cuckoolander? And... that's a really long page so I'm going to call it quits there. --Gwern (contribs) 17:08 12 December 2009 (GMT)

Hey there

Hey there, hope you're going OK. I know it's been intensely frustrating on Evangelion lately, but you've been doing really well by finding all those references and by doing your best to keep your cool. Please take care of yourself. :) --Malkinann (talk) 21:46, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Those links & references have been on my plate for weeks; I'm very glad to have them done.

As for BN, I've been trying to ignore her. The current 4-way spat between her & Folken & The Arbiter & the new would've-been adoptee is sort of a tertium gaudens situation for me, a much-needed breather. --Gwern (contribs) 23:56 14 December 2009 (GMT)

FLCL Talk Page

I just wanted to let you know that your efforts there are appreciated by at least one person.
;-)<br. />--NBahn (talk) 16:45, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

As long as they get used, I'm happy. --Gwern (contribs) 17:02 16 December 2009 (GMT)

NGE sources

Hosts? Where? The About part does not say anything. It also has various copyright infringements as people can download the Evangelion manga from the site. I already objected that there were unreliable sources being used in the article. However, users keep reverting removal of such info saying it is no good to blank. Besides, see WP:Civil before using words like "ass" in a comment.Tintor2 (talk) 14:10, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

The ass was referring to myself. Clearly.

And the manga is irrelevant. Not linking to copyvios is a guideline, and in any case, http://www.evamonkey.com/em_writings.php is not all copyvios and contains many RSs. Carl Horn, for example, knows about Evamonkey and has given his tacit consent (and maybe explicit consent, I'll ask him). --Gwern (contribs) 14:32 19 December 2009 (GMT)

It still has infringements. Linking to websites with this content is against guidelines no matter how accurate it is.Tintor2 (talk) 16:27, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Guidelines are not policies. 'Infringement' is not an unquestionable mantra that shuts down all discussion as you seem to think. Come up with real arguments. --Gwern (contribs) 17:45 20 December 2009 (GMT)

That's a real argument. Just because the link shown in the article does not show the downloadable manga, it doesn't mean it's reliable. It's still a copyvio. By your idea, fansubbing sites can be used to reference articles as long as it doesn't link to a manga.Tintor2 (talk) 22:49, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

By the same logic, no link to YouTube is acceptable.

And perhaps your fansubbing example is good, but it lacks so much detail that I can't figure out what you mean by it unless it's just a general pejorative 'fansub = bad!'. (They don't, by the way. They are often superior to commercial products. The ZX fansub of EoE Renewal being the latest case in point.) --Gwern (contribs) 00:25 21 December 2009 (GMT)

When did I say that fansubbers are worse than commercial products or that they are just bad? The only notable difference I find is that fansubs are illegal. By the way, WP:Youtube explains that what is not allowed to link are user submitted videos. In the fansite case all the info and raws of the manga are all uploaded by the administrators of the site.Tintor2 (talk) 02:27, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

OK. What does your fansite have to do with Evamonkey? --Gwern (contribs) 03:05 21 December 2009 (GMT)

What? Didn't I say that Evamonkey itself said it was a fansite? Well, I'll repeat it. Evamonkey is a fansite containing copyright infringements of the manga. That's why it shouldn't be used in wikipedia per WP:Copyvio.Tintor2 (talk) 13:52, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

And I pointed out that most websites contain copyvios somewhere in them, and we still link to them.

And in particular, WP:Copyvio says nothing applicable; perhaps you meant Wikipedia:Copyrights, which says 'However, if you know that an external Web site is carrying a work in violation of the creator's copyright, do not link to that copy of the work.' Now, explain exactly how linking to a directory on Evamonkey is linking to a 'copy of the work'. Is that page, which is a list of hyperlinks, copyrighted to someone besides Aaron Clark? Perhaps Hideaki Anno occasionally contributes to the English fandom, or Matt Greenfield has surreptitiously compiled that list? --Gwern (contribs) 13:53 22 December 2009 (GMT)

Copyvio says that the use of images are okay. With the site you can illegally download the manga. When has Anno contributed to that? Do you have a proof?Tintor2 (talk) 13:57, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

What on earth are you talking about? The policy page says you cannot link directly to a copyvio. We were not linking directly to a copyvio.

Or are you complaining about the Asuka header in the site design? (If that really is all that your complaint is, then that is absurd, we are done here, and I'll see you in the revert history.) --Gwern (contribs) 14:11 22 December 2009 (GMT)

Still the site has copyvio no matter the way you look at it (and it's pretty easy to find it). By the way, the administrator can easily add the links to the news section if they update it. Also, it may be accurate but all the info the site uses comes from other sources. Tintor2 (talk) 14:21, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

It's pretty easy to find copyvios on YouTube too. (Also, I don't know what you mean by news section.) And all the info the Internet Archive uses comes from other sources; isn't that odd. --Gwern (contribs) 14:55 22 December 2009 (GMT)

WP:Youtube states that official channels can be used as sources, but that's not the case with fansites.Tintor2 (talk) 15:59, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

'channels' is a meaningless concept outside of YouTube. --Gwern (contribs) 22:29 22 December 2009 (GMT)

AI was referring to Youtube as that was your previous comment.Tintor2 (talk) 23:43, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

YouTube as an example is relevant because it is a site we ought to link to often and which also hosts countless copyvios. Technical details about 'channels' are irrelevant. YouTube could be running Gopher for all it matters. --Gwern (contribs) 18:29 23 December 2009 (GMT)

Wikilinked date in you signature

Could you please remove the wikilinked date in your signature. It is causing problems with archive bots, such as MiszaBot, which do not recognize the wikilink date in your signature as a valid date. —Farix (t | c) 01:14, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Maybe the bots should be fixed... --Gwern (contribs) 01:43 21 December 2009 (GMT)

December 2009

When adding links to material on an external site, as you did to Neon Genesis Evangelion (anime), please ensure that the external site is not violating the creator's copyright. Linking to websites that display copyrighted works is acceptable as long as the website's operator has created or licensed the work. Knowingly directing others to a site that violates copyright may be considered contributory infringement. This is particularly relevant when linking to sites such as YouTube, where due care should be taken to avoid linking to material that violates its creator's copyright. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing.
If you believe the linked site is not violating copyright with respect to the material, then you should do one of the following:

• If the linked site is the copyright holder, leave a message explaining the details on the article Talk page;
• If a note on the linked site credibly claims permission to host the material, or a note on the copyright holder's site grants such permission, leave a note on the article Talk page with a link to where we can find that note;
• If you are the copyright holder or the external site administrator, adjust the linked site to indicate permission as above and leave a note on the article Talk page;

If the material is available on a different site that satisfies one of the above conditions, link to that site instead. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 03:04, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

If you have something to say, Collectonian, say it. Do not feed me template junk. --Gwern (contribs) 18:29 23 December 2009 (GMT)

AfD nomination of Stumpwm

An editor has nominated one or more articles which you have created or worked on, for deletion. The nominated article is Stumpwm. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also Wikipedia:Notability and "What Wikipedia is not").

Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome; please participate in the discussion(s) by adding your comments to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Stumpwm. Please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~).

You may also edit the article during the discussion to improve it but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion debate.

Please note: This is an automatic notification by a bot. I have nothing to do with this article or the deletion nomination, and can't do anything about it. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 01:11, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Re: Sword of Justice

What other meaning? Currently Wikipedia has only two articles with this title: Sword of Justice and Sword of Justice (TV series). There don't seem to be any other meanings that Wikipedia has articles about. — Kpalion^(talk) 14:53, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

Looking at the diff, you seemed to have removed a paragraph discussing 'Sword of Justice' used metaphorically. That's the meaning I was referring to. --Gwern (contribs) 15:40 26 December 2009 (GMT)

OK, I see what you mean now. Let's take this discussion to the article's talkpage. — Kpalion^(talk) 10:55, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Alright. --Gwern (contribs) 15:25 27 December 2009 (GMT)

AfD nomination of Komm, süsser Tod (song)

An editor has nominated one or more articles which you have created or worked on, for deletion. The nominated article is Komm, süsser Tod (song). We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also Wikipedia:Notability and "What Wikipedia is not").

Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome; please participate in the discussion(s) by adding your comments to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Komm, süsser Tod (song). Please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~).

You may also edit the article during the discussion to improve it but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion debate.

Please note: This is an automatic notification by a bot. I have nothing to do with this article or the deletion nomination, and can't do anything about it. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 01:05, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Stumpwm

I have given you a copy of the deleted article at User:Gwern/Stumpwm. Feel free to improve to address deletion concerns and then move to mainspace, or merge sourced content to another article. Jehochman ^Brrr 10:39, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the undeletion, but that doesn't preserve the history and so it's a copyright infringement for it to exist, much less be edited & merged into another article. (The GFDL & CC are pretty clear about the need for history to be preserved.) You could perhaps undelete the original, move it over User:Gwern/Stumpwm and then repoint [[Stumpwm]] back to [[Ratpoison]]? --Gwern (contribs) 21:40 16 January 2010 (GMT)

Eurisko's 1981 & 1982 national championship wins

Would it be okay to email you for those offered documents? Josh Parris 02:46, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

That is what I meant. Certainly can't upload them to Commons. --Gwern (contribs) 12:51 12 January 2010 (GMT)

Carl Hewitt

Gwern, I'm at the Hewitt page as an admin, not an editor, and I'd appreciate it if you'd leave these tags off the talk page. Things have quietened down in the last few months, and I don't want to see them stirred up again, which seems to have been the purpose of the anon who restored the tags. SlimVirgin ^{TALK contribs} 18:56, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

How are the tags stirring things up? Talk pages are internal Wikipedia affairs; shouldn't people editing the page - either article or talk - be aware of everything that's happened in the past and that there are certain things that will bring your banhammer down on them? It's a bit odd to try to enforce the ruling while removing any mention of them from the talk page. --Gwern (contribs) 18:59 12 January 2010 (GMT)

Hi again, normally I'd agree so long as there were no BLP issues. The thing about this case is that the ArbCom case was used against the subject in a newspaper article, then various IP addresses and new accounts turned up to add details of it to the article's talk page. It was never clear whether the edits came from his supporters or opponents, but whoever was doing it was trying to cause trouble. Since we made it clear it wasn't welcome, the page has quietened down, and I wouldn't want to see it start up again. SlimVirgin ^{TALK contribs} 18:22, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

I'm a little confused, then. If the disruptive editing was that people were adding things from a newspaper article, then what on earth purpose does removing talk page links to arcane internal Wikipedia procedures serve? It's not hiding Hewitt's article from anyone, it's not hiding the newspaper article, and so on. Even assuming some causal connection, if you don't even know what side those editors were on, then how do you deduce that such a removal will quiet them down and not rile them up? --Gwern (contribs) 21:34 16 January 2010 (GMT)

Beware that the IPs have been doing what Carl has been usually doing, pushing his research as "mainstream" at denotational semantics, logic programming etc. Several have been blocked by User:Sandstein at WP:AE. See [6] for an update. Pcap ping 19:10, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

All the more reason that documentation on Hewitt's past activities & sanctions be easily findable, and not hidden away. --Gwern (contribs) 19:55 2 March 2010 (GMT)

Medici Bank

You know, there was really no need to move it. It was lower-cased because the topic discussed was not any particular legal corporation - none of the Medici branches was named just 'the Medici Bank' so far as I know - but rather a motly collection of shifting entities over the decades/centuries. So one can speak of the Medici bank but not the Medici Bank, if you follow me. eg. see the hits in Google books http://books.google.com/books?q=medici+bank&btnG=Search+Books . --Gwern (contribs) 20:24 13 January 2010 (GMT)

While the Medici Bank may not have been a legally incorporated entity in the modern sense, many modern historians refer to it as a proper noun entity; indeed, many of the sources in the Google Books link you gave do capitalize "Medici Bank" (even in plain prose, outside book titles). Moreover, the majority of the text of the article itself capitalizes "Medici Bank"; the page title of the article should be consistent with the text within the article. —Lowellian (reply) 20:51, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

The first 3 caps are titles or publisher blurbs; the first 4 actual prose are lowercase, then a caps, then lower, then 2 caps, then 2 lowers, then a caps, then 7 lowers. And I also count far more lowercases in our article than upper, such as in the de Roover quotes.

But it's not important. If you like it better there, then I'll leave it be. --Gwern (contribs) 20:56 13 January 2010 (GMT)

Please stop

Please stop posting to my user talk page regarding your complaints about the AFD close of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Human Instrumentality Project. If you wish to contest the close, you may bring it to WP:DRV. Thanks, Cirt (talk) 19:04, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

Replied on your talk. --Gwern (contribs) 21:31 16 January 2010 (GMT)

agree with your point, a redirect closes technically as a keep, not a delete. Power.corrupts (talk) 23:38, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Wikileaks

Thank you for your contributions to the encyclopedia! In case you are not already aware, an article to which you have recently contributed, Wikileaks, is on article probation. A detailed description of the terms of article probation may be found at Wikipedia:General sanctions/Climate change probation. Also note that the terms of some article probations extend to related articles and their associated talk pages.

The above is a templated message. Please accept it as a routine friendly notice, not as a claim that there is any problem with your edits. Thank you.

I've just added this article now, so the probation does not apply to any edits you may have made up to that point. --TS 22:35, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Mind Game (film)

Re: [7], was there a third link that got left out, or should the duplicate just be removed? Thanks. (no reply needed, edit away :) -- Quiddity (talk) 22:21, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

No no, you were right - obviously I messed up the copying. I've fixed it... --Gwern (contribs) 22:38 17 January 2010 (GMT)

Neil Gaiman

Gwern, please be aware that I believe Homolka (on the NG talk page) is a sockpuppet of a banned user. See WP:AN/I#Banned user returns?. You may wish to post a link to this on the NG talk page to let other editors know. -- ChrisO (talk) 18:08, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads-up. I've commented. --Gwern (contribs) 18:43 19 January 2010 (GMT)

Please see your e-mail as well... -- ChrisO (talk) 20:23, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Ack. --Gwern (contribs) 20:44 19 January 2010 (GMT)

Sorry, by saying that the Scientoogy comments were "not inflammatory", I didn't mean to imply that they ever had been; I had a teensy chuckle, given that there had been so many talk comments stating that "Neil Gaiman is not a scientologist" was in itself an inflammatory statement ;-) !!! cojoco (talk) 00:25, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Neon Genesis Evangelion

A simple "don't do it" would have been sufficient. You didn't have to be such an asshole. Thanks! Have a great day! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.224.84.185 (talk • contribs)

I did that the first time. Obviously it was insufficient. Being an 'asshole' is apparently the only way to deal with you. --Gwern (contribs) 13:36 22 January 2010 (GMT)

So rude. Well, I didn't get your "first time" message... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.224.84.185 (talk) 14:28, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Unreferenced BLPs

Hello Gwern! Thank you for your contributions. I am a bot alerting you that 1 of the articles that you created is tagged as an Unreferenced Biography of a Living Person. The biographies of living persons policy requires that all personal or potentially controversial information be sourced. In addition, to ensure verifiability, all biographies should be based on reliable sources. If you were to bring this article up to standards, it would greatly help us with the current 178 article backlog. Once the article is adequately referenced, please remove the {{unreferencedBLP}} tag. Here is the article:

1. Piotr Woźniak (politician) - Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Thanks!--DASHBot (talk) 05:41, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Custom search engine

I think I can help by adding some more sources to it. Just need some instructions how to do so.陣内_Jinnai 07:10, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

See http://mailinator.com/maildir.jsp?email=jinnai&x=0&y=0

I would've emailed you, but you do not seem to have email enabled. Tsk tsk. --Gwern (contribs) 14:12 30 January 2010 (GMT)

Statement expanded

Thanks for the reasoned reply, which made me realize my initial explanation is inadequate. You may wish to consider my expansion/explanation at this MFD. I hope they help others understand my attempt to fit between the rock and the hard place. Thanks! //Blaxthos ( t / c ) 19:09, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Moe examples

The way it was written, it seemed more like the characters used the term 'moe' in Maid-sama!, K-On, etc. etc. etc. The main one I'm familiar with, Maid-sama, has many otaku jokes, so it didn't seem too far-fetched. Thanks for sourcing the examples of series which include moe-inspiring characters, that's far more interesting. :) --Malkinann (talk) 21:21, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Hm. Re-reading it, the paragraph may have meant 'these are anime which explicitly discuss the term or use it'; certainly Lucky Star discusses it, and Haruhi uses it of Mikuru (?), and IIRC some Haruhi material had 'tsundere-meters' as well as moe-; but I don't remember the others using it.

Oh well. Those are hard to reference if you don't have the episodes handy. --Gwern (contribs) 23:15 2 February 2010 (GMT)

Are you kidding?

Re Robin Hanson, [8] Nicely put. Unfortunately he seems serious. You might like to comment at [9], and/or [10]. --Michael C. Price ^talk 19:51, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

It is a remarkably stupid discussion. My only comfort is that on millions of Wikipedia articles, editors have, are, and will continue to make sensible inferences and true 'original research', rendering such peoples' efforts a grain of dust in the storm. --Gwern (contribs) 01:24 26 February 2010 (GMT)

Re: Number of Angels

There's hardly any more or less evidence as to the number of Angels being intentional than just about any other religious symbol the series, and regardless of what other ideas were discussed or pursued in other iterations, we have to look at the fact that they ended up going with eighteen Angels, which IS a significant number. I don't think it's unreasonable to point out on the Evangelion pages that eighteen is a number of symbolic significance and let the reader draw their own conclusions, which is what I did. Gatotsu911 (talk) 20:46, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Actually, there's a heck of a lot more sourcing for other aspects: the Gainax commentary specifically calls out Asuka's Jericho allusion, for example. There are so many possible character names that Adam & Lilith must be deliberate, and so on.

The nature of numerology is that every number is significant somehow. Gematria doesn't have any uninteresting numbers; Bible codes will let you find anything. Notice how even secular Wikipedia has an article on every number twixt 0 and 100.

There can only be a max of 20 or so angels. Every number between 1 and 20 is easy to put religious interpretation on: http://www.biblestudy.org/bibleref/meaning-of-numbers-in-bible/11.html Even a layman can easily play this game: 10 refers to the 10 commandments; 12 is the 12 apostles of Jesus and the tribes of Israel; 13 is the apostles plus Matthias (Judas's replacement); etc.

Calling out the # of Angels is sufficiently groundless that I will employ guideline to remove it, despite my distaste for the relevant guidelines. --Gwern (contribs) 21:32 10 February 2010 (GMT)

I understand that one could theoretically read deeper significance into any number, but in this case the number is so specific and has such a readily apparent significance that I think it would be silly to overlook it entirely. All I'm suggesting is that the pages relating to the Angels merely make mention of the fact that eighteen is a number with a symbolic significance that relates directly to the thematic content of the show, and let readers decide for themselves whether this is intentional. By the same standards, I would just as well suggest that some note be made of the fact that there are 12 members of SEELE - 13 counting Gendo. Evangelion does indeed play the "numbers game". Gatotsu911 (talk) 23:58, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Every number is specific; 18 is no more specific than 19, or 17. As I've said, nothing in the production history of NGE shows that the # of Angels was static and decided - it was very contingent and the # of Angels shifted and changed to fit needs at hand. (eg. look at the Evangelion Proposal: instead of an episode with Asuka & Shinji going to an amusement park, we got another Angel). I am removing the sections.

A further example of Bible code nonsense: you can find Evangelion characters in the Bible if you look. --Gwern (contribs) 00:07 14 February 2010 (GMT)

Robinson Jeffers categories

You undid my category deletion with a link to a Google search. However, there is no text in the article that supports those categories. I will remove them again. Feel free to add them back when the information has been added with citations from reliable sources to the text of the article. A link to a google search in an edit summary is not good enough. LadyofShalott 02:53, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

hi

just saying regarding WP:EVA< try not to focus the argument on me when it comes to the names mari and mary. i'm not the one bringing it up it's the IP. oh and letting you know i already replied in nge (anime).Bread Ninja (talk) 15:51, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

I realize that, and I've been directing my comments at the anon; although if you had already seen RSs giving 'Mari' you should've been clearer about your hypothetical (I read it as an example of laziness, since 'Mari' RSs are readily available).

As for NGE (anime), I have nothing further to add.

A final tip: one of the advantages of the 'add section' button for talk pages is that it gets the 'section' part of the edit summary right; when I came here, I was wondering what interest you could possibly have in Robinson Jeffers... --Gwern (contribs) 16:05 17 February 2010 (GMT)

i'm just confused on how it relates to production. and Robinson Jeffers as in the poet? his article does need alot of work, and could possibly look for some. i'll see what i can do.Bread Ninja (talk) 16:37, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Custom google engine

Have you figured out how to add people yet? I ask because I spotted an issue today. Search 'Yagami Light' turns up an entry in naruto.viz.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2575183 which doesn't really constitute a RS, unless you have you can specify it to allow for certain user name posts in forums only (doubtful).陣内_Jinnai 03:37, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

I don't know; you never seemed to act on my messages to you via mailinator.

As for naruto.viz.com; if there were a few usernames, one could possibly go to the list of their posts add that to the whitelist, and blacklist the domain in general. If the CSE precedence rules work the way I think it does (whitelist overrides blacklist, or more specific less specific), then that should allow in only those pages/comments. --Gwern (contribs) 13:51 2 March 2010 (GMT)

Articles for deletion nomination of Dmenu

I have nominated Dmenu, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dmenu. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.

Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Pcap ping 19:02, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Déclic-Images

An article that you have been involved in editing, Déclic-Images, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Déclic-Images. Thank you.
Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. --Explodicle (T/C) 15:41, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Torture in China

I've userfied to User:Gwern/Torture in China. Well, I moved the history to preserve attribution... Sorry it took this long, I was on break. Maxim_(talk) 21:08, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. --Gwern (contribs) 22:43 12 March 2010 (GMT)

Thanks

Thanks for the Protoculture issue, Gwern! It's a big help. :) --Malkinann (talk) 10:42, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Did you see the other issues? http://eva.onegeek.org/pipermail/evangelion/2010-March/006093.html --Gwern (contribs) 13:14 26 March 2010 (GMT)

No, I didn't. Thanks for that. :) --Malkinann (talk) 09:14, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Thank you.

I was just about to do that. Just figured out how. Zell Faze (talk) 17:59, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Custom google search

Not sure if you can give some access or not, but i found some problems:

Animesuki "School Rumble" cease - should not return results from animesuki.net for WP:COPYVIO reasons. There's also some ones i'm unsure of there as well on the first page.

That's a rather specific search to be worrying over/

As for your suggestion: I am against that interpretation of WP:COPYVIO on philosophical grounds. I bow to force majeure in the narrow case of whatever contributory infringement laws apply to WMF servers in Florida, but I regard these rules as about as moral and consistent as China's rules about Tienanmen Square (cf. deCSS).

On grounds of utility, I can't see my way to blacklisting them either. The blacklisting of various scanlation and P2P sites in my CSE is because they clutter up the results with useless material. Animesuki hits are not categorically useless; they provide useful links, summaries, data like dates, and obviously Animesuki is a RS should an article on a series/franchise/OVA/... wish to mention a takedown sent to Animesuki. Even more obviously, hits from Animesuki may be RSs for Animesuki. That's about 3 more categories of useful hits than I could muster for freetorrents.com. --Gwern (contribs) 23:17 7 April 2010 (GMT)

Thanks for the feedback

I feel like an idiot by not involving Collectonian over my effort to try and reform Bambifan101. Apparently, he was continuing to create socks. I can't tell you how valuable I found your opinion to be and his block is going to stand as far as I'm concerned. Thank you much. PMDrive1061 (talk) 01:21, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

You're welcome. I may no longer be an admin, but if my experiences and opinions are still of value, I'm glad to give'em. --Gwern (contribs) 02:38 13 April 2010 (GMT)

RfD nomination of Jorj Car'das

I have nominated Jorj Car'das (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) for discussion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at the discussion page. Thank you. The Evil IP address (talk) 14:06, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

WP:Missing Wikipedians

Hey there, thanks for cleaning up WP:Missing Wikipedians. It's about time that page got a good sweep. PS. your talk page is getting a little long don't ya think? :) Have you considered archiving it? -- œ^™ 17:34, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

It's very depressing work, though.

I like long talk pages! It's like scrolling through history. --Gwern (contribs) 18:56 23 April 2010 (GMT)

Depressing?? No way! We WANT to remove as many people as possible from that list. The ideal thing would be to not have this list at all! We should be happy that editors are returning and are no longer missing, right? -- œ^™ 19:42, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Even the ones who have resumed editing aren't editing much - at least a dozen people have edited in 2010 but only once or twice and so I couldn't in good conscience remove them - and as you go through each and every one, you notice how many were banned or were later subverted. --Gwern (contribs) 23:42 23 April 2010 (GMT)

I intend to go through each and every one once I set aside some time to work on User:OlEnglish/list of reasons why Wikipedians stop editing, once it's done we should have some statistics on just how many left because of reasons like subversion. -- œ^™ 21:35, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

What I meant is that a number of accounts have been banned because after an editor's departure, the password apparently was cracked and the account misused. --Gwern (contribs) 23:21 24 April 2010 (GMT)

Google search engine

Might see about adding sites from WP:VN and other related Wikiprojects & TFs.陣内_Jinnai 21:35, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

The Japan Wikiproject and Visual Novel Wikiproject don't seem to have any RS page like the Anime wikiproject does; I've added them to the CSE with the 'include any links from that page' option, but I don't think it'll do much. --Gwern (contribs) 22:00 30 April 2010 (GMT)

For Visual Novels, its a small section near the bottom. Also on the WP:VG there is a list of Japanese video-game related sites if you wanted to add them (as well as others) since its a heavily related project. There's is probably more exhaustive than the anime's list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jinnai (talk • contribs)

I've added them too. --Gwern (contribs) 22:48 24 May 2010 (GMT)

Just clarrifcation - you've added sources (and filters for non-reliable sources) from both VN and VG?陣内_Jinnai 18:05, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

IIRC, I added them both in as 'pages which contain links to include', but I do not recall adding any filters for non-RSs linked from them - those pages oughtn't be linking such anyway... --Gwern (contribs) 18:08 16 June 2010 (GMT)

Twinkle

My apologies, this is apparently a known bug with Twinkle: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_User_scripts/Scripts/Twinkle/Bugs#TW-B-357.  — Joshua Scott (LiberalFascist) 02:34, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes, and as I told the other editor (Collectonian?), if the devs won't fix Twinkle, you have an obligation to either work-around Twinkle & fix its errors, or stop using it. --Gwern (contribs) 13:32 3 May 2010 (GMT)

Fixed. Amalthea 15:18, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. --Gwern (contribs) 15:28 3 May 2010 (GMT)

Alagebrium

Rather than flag the article, wouldn't it be better to just do a bit of looking and put in the refs? I know this subject fairly well, and there isn't anything wrong with it that I can see. Keith Henson (talk) 22:14, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Did you see my comment? Did you read the relevant sections? You're normally smarter than this, but I'll give some specifics:

'On 25 July 2007 Alteon was essentially bought for its corporate shell by a three-man operation developing another medication that needed a corporate shell in order to move fast.'

Speculation, OR, psychologizing, and a distinct sense of disapproval ('how dare this fly-by-night twerp operation buy Alteon for something other than its alagebrium research!').

'The company changed its name to Synvista Therapeutics, Inc. now with perhaps three employees in the United States, and outsources its research, (probably none of it on Alagebrium, despite the website's assertions).'

Speculation and OR and calling them liars.

'One conclusion that could easily be derived from the published research...'

OR.

'So a lack of patent protection, and ease of replication by others, obviously made the venture investment community lose faith before an approved product arrived.'

OR. Obviously whoever wrote this said, 'I am the Vorax, I speak for the VCs'...

I have no freaking idea where I would cite half of that to, because it reads like a fan of alagebarium decided to vomit their pet theories all over the article; I could have fact-bombed every other sentence, but I dislike that even more than groundless theorizing. --Gwern (contribs) 14:29 7 May 2010 (GMT)

I was just considering the technical aspects, but the business statements are as far as I know true. At least they are consistent with what I hear from people who followed it closely. Also the company is now out of business, ran out of money to the best of my knowledge. Keith Henson (talk) 15:34, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

So you admit that much of the article is just based on hearsay and rumors. --Gwern (contribs) 16:20 16 June 2010 (GMT)

List of Neon Genesis Evangelion media

I'm currently reformatting most of the article into a table, but one thing i do plan on doing is removing the songs and the live action, not completely of course, just some things that can make it more media-style.Bread Ninja (talk) 19:02, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

I also plan on removing some of the airing or summarizing it by removing some trivial details.Bread Ninja (talk) 19:03, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

oh and sorry about the moving in main nge article. i was too busy that day and forgot about moving it

Determining reliable sources in your search

Perhaps just list out every site that is included, and everyone can just go through it, and discuss which ones are valid, and which ones are not. Sites that allow illegal downloads of copyrighted material, of course have to be removed from the list. Dream Focus 06:18, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

All 282 on the whitelist and 1191 on the blacklist? --Gwern (contribs) 13:55 25 May 2010 (GMT)

My error

I hadn't realized that the Komm, süsser Tod (song) article was not simply a restoration of the redirected article. I've been dealing with a number of IPs reverting articles that were redirected as a result of AfD discussions and jumped on this one too quickly when it popped up on my watch list. Thanks for catching the error! On a seperate note, the youtube links should be removed...--Jezebel'sPonyo^shhh 16:50, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

What makes you think they should be removed? Even if they were copyvios, I can't say they're worth bothering about. --Gwern (contribs) 02:03 29 May 2010 (GMT)

I think I must be misinterpeting your message...are you asserting that it's acceptable to host copyright violating material on Wikipedia? --Jezebel'sPonyo^shhh 02:39, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Of course; we would be a much worse encyclopedia without fair use materials.

But seriously: any copyvio on Youtube is Youtube or the uploader's problem. Are we our brother's keeper? Our task is to make the best encyclopedia we can, not adhere to every crazed jot and tittle of American IP maximalism unless it's a genuine threat to the encyclopedia. No one has ever sued us over contributory infringement linking to a video site, and no on ever will; any effort spent dealing with an illusory threat yields equally illusory benefits. --Gwern (contribs) 02:53 29 May 2010 (GMT)

You're entitled to your opinion, regardless of how far off the plot it is from policy or concensus. I've removed the youtube links and added some references because the article is certainly notable and hopefully the sources will serve as an anchor. I honestly could not disagree with you more regarding you views on copyright on Wikipedia. That being said, I hope you'll see this as a compromise of sorts. Jezebel'sPonyo^shhh 03:15, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

A 'compromise' usually entails both parties giving up something; I don't see what you've given up. I don't even see any argument as to why you're sure those links are copyvios. --Gwern (contribs) 03:22 29 May 2010 (GMT)

Talkback

Hello, Gwern. You have new messages at Talk:FLCL.
Message added 01:35, 29 May 2010 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

I respectfully direct your attention here (just hope the link turns out OK). <br. />—NBahn (talk) 01:35, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Disputed non-free use rationale for File:Cartaya-cropped.png

Thank you for uploading File:Cartaya-cropped.png. However, there is a concern that the rationale provided for using this file on Wikipedia may not meet the criteria required by Wikipedia:Non-free content. This can be corrected by going to the file description page and adding or clarifying the reason why the file qualifies under this policy. Adding and completing one of the templates available from Wikipedia:Non-free use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your file is in compliance with Wikipedia policy. Please be aware that a non-free use rationale is not the same as an image copyright tag; descriptions for files used under the non-free content policy require both a copyright tag and a non-free use rationale.

If it is determined that the file does not qualify under the non-free content policy, it might be deleted by an administrator within a few days in accordance with our criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions, please ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thank you. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 09:16, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Reviewer granted

Hello. Your account has been granted the "reviewer" userright, allowing you to review other users' edits on certain flagged pages. Pending changes, also known as flagged protection, will be commencing a two-month trial at approximately 23:00, 2010 June 15 (UTC).

Reviewers can review edits made by users who are not autoconfirmed to articles placed under flagged protection. Flagged protection is applied to only a small number of articles, similarly to how semi-protection is applied but in a more controlled way for the trial.

When reviewing, edits should be accepted if they are not obvious vandalism or BLP violations, and not clearly problematic in light of the reason given for protection (see Wikipedia:Reviewing process). More detailed documentation and guidelines can be found here.

If you do not want this userright, you may ask any administrator to remove it for you at any time. ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 18:20, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Interview request: The newbie experience, revert communication and $10 to the WMF

As I'm concluding the study related to the NICE user script, I'd like to ask you some questions about your experiences with and ideas about Wikipedia. The questions will be related to how you interact with new editors and the way you communicate when reverting. The chat should take about 45 minutes to an hour and can happen over phone, voip(skype) or instant messenger(gtalk, ICQ, AIM, etc.). As thanks for your time, I'll donate $10 to the Wikimedia foundation at the completion of the interview. If you are interested or need more information, please let me know. --EpochFail^(talk|work) 20:02, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

If you wish to chat with me on Freenode/in #wikipedia, that'd be fine. --Gwern (contribs) 20:26 15 June 2010 (GMT)

Disputed non-free use rationale for File:Cartaya-cropped.png

Thank you for uploading File:Cartaya-cropped.png. However, there is a concern that the rationale provided for using this file on Wikipedia may not meet the criteria required by Wikipedia:Non-free content. This can be corrected by going to the file description page and adding or clarifying the reason why the file qualifies under this policy. Adding and completing one of the templates available from Wikipedia:Non-free use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your file is in compliance with Wikipedia policy. Please be aware that a non-free use rationale is not the same as an image copyright tag; descriptions for files used under the non-free content policy require both a copyright tag and a non-free use rationale.

If it is determined that the file does not qualify under the non-free content policy, it might be deleted by an administrator within a few days in accordance with our criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions, please ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thank you. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 09:47, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Another site for the search engine

MKV - UK trade publication that has joint coverage with Famitsu.陣内_Jinnai 16:23, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Added, thanks. --Gwern (contribs) 21:59 3 July 2010 (GMT)

Watchers

Toolserver report

If you go to any page and click on the history you will see some toolserver links for various functions. Back in the day this used to show exact numbers below 15, but this was changed for vandalism reasons. It's still useful because <15 usually means 0. --Protonk (talk) 08:33, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. It's always surprising to me what the toolserver has. --Gwern (contribs) 08:45 2 August 2010 (GMT)

Please See Man Faye

You added to my talk page an article that I have never heard of. I'm wondering why you think a special invitation was desirable. McKay (talk) 15:56, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Replied on your talk (you participated in AfD #3). --Gwern (contribs) 16:06 4 August 2010 (GMT)

Ah, thanks for the information. I guess I did participate in a previous AfD. The article didn't look at all familiar. I must have been randomly perusing the AFDs that day (which is not something I am wont to do) McKay (talk) 19:12, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Akatsuki No Kuruma

Please do away with accusations in edit summaries - your source doesn't reference the article subject so your prod-removal was incorrect. Dream Focus made basically the same mistake before you and reinstated the prod. But since you insist that the article be put through a discussion, I will nominate it. Hekerui (talk) 08:49, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Sourcing has nothing whatsoever to do with a PROD, unless the article is a BLP. Is "Akatsuki no Kuruma" the name of a living person? No. It is not. --Gwern (contribs) 09:26 25 August 2010 (GMT)

Articles for deletion nomination of Terrence Webster-Doyle

I have nominated Terrence Webster-Doyle, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Terrence Webster-Doyle (2nd nomination). Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.

Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Weaponbb7 (talk) 17:58, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

User Falken de Fanel

You're right, but I don't think he's really aware about the warning I gave him (see his reply). Now I lay it down in a more formal way.--Kōji ^{talk to me} 14:56, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Weeee!

		The Template Barnstar
		Or whatever. For creating the extremely useful Google RS. Thanks! SharkD  Talk  23:02, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

You're quite welcome. If you have any suggested sites for the black or whitelists, I'm always open. --Gwern (contribs) 12:16 10 September 2010 (GMT)

Mobygames in search results

Doing a search result for Desire, an anime-themed visual novel, and mobygames is in nearly half of the top results. Mobygames is not a reliable source and shouldn't be turning up on any search results. Nothing on them is reliable (for the purposes of anime or related subjects).陣内_Jinnai 05:12, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

I've blacklisted them. I'm always chary of blacklisting user-generated sites, since often those users are far more expert on the topic than credentialed experts, but looking through a few MG entries doesn't turn up any obvious insights. --Gwern (contribs) 12:15 13 September 2010 (GMT)

Gung Ho

I'll give you that one, tho I think Stevenson's use in the Marine dossier is ironic. Dankarl (talk) 15:22, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

The first use may be ironic given Shaftoe's explanation, but the second one, done by the omniscient narrator about Shaftoe's views, doesn't seem ironic at all:

"This "sir, yes sir" business, which would probably sound like horseshit to any civilian in his right mind, makes sense to Shaftoe and to the officers in a deep and important way. Like a lot of others, Shaftoe had trouble with military etiquette at first. He soaked up quite a bit of it growing up in a military family, but living the life was a different matter. Having now experienced all the phases of military existence except for the terminal ones (violent death, court-martial, retirement), he has come to understand the culture for what it is: a system of etiquette within which it becomes possible for groups of men to live together for years, travel to the ends of the earth, and do all kinds of incredibly weird shit without killing each other or completely losing their minds in the process. The extreme formality with which he addresses these officers carries an important subtext: your problem, sir, is deciding what you want me to do, and my problem, sir, is doing it. My gung-ho posture says that once you give the order I'm not going to bother you with any of the details--and your half of the bargain is you had better stay on your side of the line, sir, and not bother me with any of the chickenshit politics that you have to deal with for a living. The implied responsibility placed upon the officer's shoulders by the subordinate's unhesitating willingness to follow orders is a withering burden to any officer with half a brain, and Shaftoe has more than once seen seasoned noncoms reduce green lieutenants to quivering blobs simply by standing before them and agreeing, cheerfully, to carry out their orders."

(Emphasis added.) It strikes me as entirely earnest and down to earth. --Gwern (contribs) 15:30 19 September 2010 (GMT)

Wikipedia:Pending changes/Straw poll on interim usage

Hi. As you recently commented in the straw poll regarding the ongoing usage and trial of Pending changes, this is to notify you that there is an interim straw poll with regard to keeping the tool switched on or switching it off while improvements are worked on and due for release on November 9, 2010. This new poll is only in regard to this issue and sets no precedent for any future usage. Your input on this issue is greatly appreciated. Off2riorob (talk) 23:35, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

CSE

Cheers, in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Akuma to Love Song my initial CSE search turned up the scanlation sites, and a subsequent search with all the -scanlation stuff turned up a single RS, (Manga Es) so for The Legends of Vampire Hunter I thought I would cut to the chase and do the initial search with -scanlation etc. --Malkinann (talk) 21:13, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

My offer (and point about bad searches) still stands. AfDs are leisurely affairs. --Gwern (contribs) 21:52 28 September 2010 (GMT)

Wikipedia:Peer review/Juwan Howard/archive2

Thanks for the PR. I have responded to your concerns. Could you please review my edits and strike your concerns as appropriate.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:59, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

I've replied there. --Gwern (contribs) 15:29 3 October 2010 (GMT)

The semi-identical twins listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect The semi-identical twins. Since you had some involvement with the The semi-identical twins redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion (if you have not already done so). — the Man in Question (in question) 21:38, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Juwan Howard/archive2

Feel free to get involved in the discussion at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Juwan Howard/archive2.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 03:20, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Takeshi Shudo

You made a rather odd edit summary there. Any objections if I delete the entire article, considering there is no way to revision delete the paragraph I removed without removing the entire edit history. You could then re-nter an article on them if you like. DGG ( talk ) 21:36, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

I believe my edit summary to have been both useful and an apt commentary on the BLP PROD policy. So I would object. --Gwern (contribs) 21:47 11 October 2010 (GMT)

I can't find any source which has more than one sentence on this guy; I think my prod was appropriate. Oore (talk) 22:19, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

You even admit you found sources. --Gwern (contribs) 22:39 11 October 2010 (GMT)

Yes I searched Google before doing the prod. Although I found quite a few pages where the name was listed, I wasn't able to find any reliable sources which could be used to develop the article. It sounds like my admission makes you hate the BLP Prod policy or me even more...lol. Oore (talk) 22:49, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

I feel that if you know there are BLP sources and you PROD it for lacking any sources, then morally you have contravened the spirit of the policy. --Gwern (contribs) 23:27 11 October 2010 (GMT)

The WP:BLPPROD page specifically mentions "reliable sources" so I think my prod was consistent with the spirit of the policy. Perhaps you should seek to have that threshold lowered. Oore (talk) 00:07, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

There is no need. RSs were not hard to find for that page; hence, it were silly to request any lowering. --Gwern (contribs) 01:22 12 October 2010 (GMT)

Gwern, applying IAR, I deleted all but the final version, keeping the name of the editors but deleting the text. I think this gives the attribution adequate in the circumstances.

As for BLP prod, I suppose you both know how strongly I opposed its introduction; but since it was considered to have obtained consensus, I consider it necessary to follow the policy that was adopted. One of the key reasons I opposed it is that it was unnecessary, & my experience since then vindicates my position. I try to patrol all BLP prods except for sports and entertainment figures, and I only skip those in order to get the job done on the others where I have better skill in finding references. I find that in experience with hundreds of these that it is very rarely necessary. Except for cases where cultural bias makes it impossible to find sources, I have almost never found a necessary BLP Prod deletion for which I could not give another reason also. (and of course they could always have been done by ordinary prod or afd). BLP Prod is only about WP:V,not WP:N, but ordinary prod can be used for any good reason justifying deletion. it is incorrect to place a BLP prod if there is any source at all for WP:V; it is incorrect to remove them unless the added source for WP:V is reliable. In practice, both parts of this are interpreted in a reasonable way. I think the source Gwern added is good enough to show WP:V, though it would very much help if there were better. If I were adding a borderline source like that, I would also think it obligatory to also add the tag for< nowiki> </nowiki>, because further work on sourcing is needed. Ocre, to not add a source when you know it exists is indeed against the spirit of WP:V. The proper course of action would have been to add it and possibly list for ordinary prod as insufficient sourcing. DGG ( talk ) 01:58, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

I had not seen the source Gwern used. I ran across only sites like this which would have been inappropriate to use as a source. Oore (talk) 02:21, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Then you have learned something valuable from this little contretemps: that my CSE is a useful little tool indeed. --Gwern (contribs) 14:16 12 October 2010 (GMT)

Quotes

there are far too many block quotes on the neon genesis evangelion (anime) page. If this article has any chance of becoming GA rank, than we must summarize the quotes as best as posible and use the quotes as refs.Bread Ninja (talk) 10:08, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

What is too many quotes? Let the men speak for themselves.

I have told you time and again, GA has nothing to do with quality; nor am I aware of anything in the GA guidelines speaking to quotes. You remind me of a child valuing the pretty stickers on their test more than the actual learning. --Gwern (contribs) 13:44 13 October 2010 (GMT)

the sticker is there for a reason. there not there just for show. and your missing the point. GA does have everything to do with quality. Your trying to excuse yourself, saying GA doesn't have anything to do with quality is saying, you don't care or rather not make NGE articles into GA, which the NGE wikiproject's main goal is to make all the articles into GA.

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet, and a turd as bad. If one is improving an article, and someone happens by and decides it is a Good Article; that is one. It is another to look at the Good Article criteria and try to make an article good by making it Good. Correlation is not causation; Goodhart's law rules.

And how is the NGE work group doing? Just because I am signed up does not mean I agree with every single goal on the page. For example, 'creating a userbox'. --Gwern (contribs) 21:56 13 October 2010 (GMT)

You act like if you don't care about standard quality of an article and just carea bout your judgement on quality, despite it not being the best format. GA does have everything to do with quality in wikipedia. The tag on the article relating to tone is because of these quotes. wikipedia recommends using paraphrasing and summaries as a better alternative to quotation. Plus it's very disruptive and is unwiki with this large ammount of block quotes. Some of these quotes aren't even close to justifyable, especially the quote of the biography.

Who else's judgment could I possibly care about? If I see someone being mugged on the street, do I call the police because after pondering I conclude that an African bushman would morally condemn the mugging? Or because I morally condemn the mugging?

And if memory serves me, the {{tone}} template predates any long quotes from The Notenki Memoirs. --Gwern (contribs) 21:56 13 October 2010 (GMT)

Compare NGE article to the rest, and you wil see that NGE is the one falling out. NGE is the only anime article that has that many quotes. it's ridiculous for you not to see how low the quality of NG articles are.Bread Ninja (talk) 19:47, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I agree it is the odd one out - in that it genuinely tries to put NGE into an artistic and commercial context, describe its complex history, and assemble insight. It does not punt the issue and cripple itself into a useless listing of airdates and commercial release dates and monetary minutiae.

To me, it is ridiculous that you do not see how worthless your ideal article would be. Who is right? --Gwern (contribs) 21:56 13 October 2010 (GMT)

Describing it's complex history isn't a bad thing, but we can't put it in an "artistic" and "commerical context", that's one of the fundamental rules in wikipedia.

Of course we can do that. There is no WP:NOCONTEXT policy, and the community would ignore any such foolish policy. --Gwern (contribs) 22:51 13 October 2010 (GMT)

i really dont have a concrete ideal article, the only thing i want is for articles to at least make it to GA when possible. And my ideal Articles are the articles that are GA.

So in other words you don't know what makes a good article, as opposed to a Good Article, so you will mindlessly follow whatever regulations the GA clique has decided on this year. I hope you realize that you are in no position to lecture other people about being 'ridiculous'. --Gwern (contribs) 22:51 13 October 2010 (GMT)

This isn't an article to praise it, this isn't a fanclub. if it's notable we put it in, but it has to be from someone credible. But that's beside the point. NGE article stands out in a bad way. I'm not going to be the fan, and want every little piece i could get and put it in.

But you're missing the point again, like i've said some of these block quotes aren't justifiable.Bread Ninja (talk) 22:06, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

'Glendower: "I can call spirits from the vasty deep."

Hotspur: "Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them?"' --Gwern (contribs) 22:51 13 October 2010 (GMT)

I'm going to make NGE article less "artistic" and "comercialized". I don't need your objection.Bread Ninja (talk) 22:58, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

• Articles exist for those who are interested in the content and read them, not just those who want them short and uniformed and never do more than skim over them. The quotes in perfect context for the article, and provide relevant information, straight from the creators, that far more desirable then having someone just reword what they say and jam it in with the rest of the article. Dream Focus 15:43, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

You neither want nor need my objection; yet, there it is.

(A piece of advice, Bread Ninja, one I have given before but you seem to have not noticed. I would object less to your tender ministrations, and trust in your appraisals of what is good/Good more, if you were not so manifestly incompetent at writing.) --Gwern (contribs) 17:18 14 October 2010 (GMT)

I hardly find dream focus credibe for obvious disputes she had in the past. I've been around long enough to know the rules, what is acceptable and what isn't. The quotes are hardly in perfect context. Obviously Dream focus didn't read where all the quotes were coming from. And we aren't here to inform there directly from the creator.

We aren't here to explain something in a "artistic" and "commericalize" matter. we are just here to inform them. ALso, gwern this isn't a matter of grammar.

the quotes make the article in an un-encyclopedic format (and i'm sure both of you know this).Bread Ninja (talk) 20:30, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

The quotes are valid. The first one describes what the series is about rather well. Eva is a story that repeats. It is a story where the main character witnesses many horrors with his own eyes, but still tries to stand up again. It is a story of will; a story of moving forward, if only just a little. It is a story of fear, where someone who must face indefinite solitude fears reaching out to others, but still wants to try. How could you not want that in there? Then you have a section mentioning their financial problems, tax fraud and all, followed with a quote that sums up the situation quite well. The third quote on the page is in the merchandise section, demonstrating just how much merchandise there is, and how profitable it was. Yes, I read them, and they do add to the article. Also, I'm a "he" not a "she". And you discredit someone not based on their argument, but because of a dispute in the past where they didn't agree with you? Now how things are suppose to work. Focus on the argument, not the person giving it. Dream Focus 20:39, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

BN, it is a matter of grammar when you cannot even say what you presumably mean - when you can write something that is the opposite of what you must have meant, like "I don't need your objection". (Someone who understood the rudiments of writing might have written something like "I don't need your consent".)

Not to mention you consistently confuse explaining context with the manner of explaining; at least, this is the best I can make of your misspelled screeds about "commericalize" [sic] and whatnot. Nothing prevents us from explaining the context, and this is a critical part of any article. I can just imagine [[American Civil War]] by Bread Ninja - it lists all the major battles' dates, explains the events, and ends, because clearly it is entirely unwarranted to put it in any political or economic context (such as industrialization or slavery). --Gwern (contribs) 20:46 14 October 2010 (GMT)

Gwern is still focused on me, so why not dream focus? you defend who you want, but the standards don't apply to everyone when it comes to choosing sides.

Quotes are valid in general, but used to a limit. Well for one obvious reason is, they are un encyclopedic, they disrupt the feel the encyclopedic style of wikipedia if they are used too much. Quotes aren't meant to dominate the article they are only there if they've been recognized overtime. Also they are not suppose to be the information themselves, they are merely to help.

let me give two examples of quotes used. Anno's personal biography describes this period:

^^ this could easily be a summary rather than a quote. ALl of it could. Another example is this one:

It's strange that 'Evangelion' has become such a hit - all the characters are so sick!

^^this one is just sitting there. Not really much reason why it has to be in a quote.

Quotes need to be given when the words have been used excessively. they are never meant to be used for direct explanation. they are used for examples, not to dominate the information.Bread Ninja (talk) 21:48, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

That has to be a quote because coming from anyone else it is not as interesting. Coming from Anno, it is Word of God, and a commentary on the series, its audience, and the characters that would either be POV or mere opinion when said (or summarized!) by anyone else. It is because Anno said it that people copy that exact quote and pass it around. --Gwern (contribs) 14:21 15 October 2010 (GMT)

Anno isn't Word of God and not even close. He is the creator of NGE and therefore quoted frequently when talking about NGE, but his quotes aren't used to a point where it is memorable outside of NGE. Quotes Still, this doesn't excuse for the excessive quotes being done in the article. If the articles were about Anno then yes, he would be quoted, but these are NGE and are focused on it. I still suggest putting all these quotes into a better prose than this.Bread Ninja (talk) 16:39, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

And if you say only Anno's word is important to quote, that still merits many other quotes in the articles to be removed, such as his biography, Carl Horn on media, and Analysis (which i may find that section very inappropriate and can be reformed to a Reception. These articles are no where near becoming GA or even A class unless we fix the TONE of the article and self published sources. the tag on the articles are there fora reason, and the main point is that the over usage of quotes affect the tone to be in an unecyclopedic matter. this seems to be more news style which often can be acceptable, but this seems to take it to a more extreme. Bread Ninja (talk) 21:33, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

My apologies; I momentarily lapsed into TvTropes terminology.

And actually, it is the newspapers who like to paraphrase someone or quote a few words. It is a scholarly academic style to quote large chunks, both as part of a general defense against the difficulty of finding sources years or millennium later, and to give context and show that any usage or summary is not misleading, out of context, or plain wrong. --Gwern (contribs) 02:32 17 October 2010 (GMT)

Either way, Quotes CAN be summarized to an easier straight-to-the-point form and be used to even a minimal form such as quoting certain key points instead of actually using the whole thing. Reception sections tend to do this and doesn't affect it's chances of becoming a GA rank article.Bread Ninja (talk) 06:07, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Typical BN. BN claims that quotes are bad-looking and unencyclopedic, I point out that BN's idea of encyclopedic is actually newspaperly and the academic style is to use lots of quotes, and BN immediately backtracks and 'either way' doesn't matter. --Gwern (contribs) 19:48 18 October 2010 (GMT)

Misato = Sailor Moon?

What does the reference on Misato Katsuragi have to say about her being an adult Usagi Tsukino? Would it be fair to say in Usagi's article that Usagi's hair design influenced Misato's hair design, or is the resemblance deeper? (aside from OMGZ same voice actor!) --Malkinann (talk) 03:24, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

The ref does specifically point to her hair style. I'm not entirely sure how, since Misato never sports the famous double-dumplings of Sailor Moon; my working theory is that the visual borrowing is of Usagi's bangs (that is, you can see a sort of heart-shape as the bangs curl around in 2 groups). The deeper resemblance isn't really enlarged upon; my interpretation there is that Misato is like Usagi when Misato is in college (she is a hyperactive chatterbox in the TV series's flashbacks), and the adult bit comes from how she and Kaji get it on like rabbits. --Gwern (contribs) 02:35 17 October 2010 (GMT)

Cheers, I've put it in Usagi's reception section briefly. I think it's the fringe as well. --Malkinann (talk) 03:53, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

I've looked over some more Misato pics. If it isn't the fringe, I have no idea what it could be - the rest of the hair features simply don't match. (Black versus blonde, hip length versus shoulder, twintail versus loose, etc.) --Gwern (contribs) 19:50 18 October 2010 (GMT)

NGE timeline

it is inpracticle to have a timeline anywhere in any article, it doesn't meet the general notability guideline, and mose of all trivial. try not to remove it until we have a consensus.Bread Ninja (talk) 00:03, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Consensus has nothing to do with it. I will again suggest you read WP:PROD, and read more of it than just the part where it tells you what to copy-paste. --Gwern (contribs) 00:21 20 October 2010 (GMT)

give me on three good reason why this should be merged. You may know some rules in your favor, but when it comes down to the important, stuff you try avoiding the main subject and use complex words making it hard ot keep up and you focus on me, not the subject. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bread Ninja (talk • contribs)

And the moment a process turns out not to be unilateral deletion, you go whining to the policy talk page to try to get it changed, apparently missing the entire point of PROD was to be a lightweight deletion process solely for uncontroversial stuff that wasn't as bad as speedies. Not commendable behavior.

How do I know all this and "know some rules in your favor"? Because I participated in the consensus-building for PROD, defended it, and as an administrator made a specialty of taking care of PROD-tagged pages!

And 'complex words'? Give me a break. That problem is solely on your end. You are the one who cannot write for beans, and apparently cannot read either. I'd cut you some slack if English were not your native language, but I see no templates to that effect. Here's a suggestion: there are over 200 sections on this talk page, and hundreds more in the archives for this and my former accounts, so why don't you read through them and see how many of them include complaints about my writing style or vocabulary? I'll give you a hint - the number will be greater than 0 and less than 2. --Gwern (contribs) 23:59 29 October 2010 (GMT)

Admit it, you're only trying to make these articles the way you want and in a form thats barely acceptable to some. No one can edit, because you always there obejecting. You dont even want to try to get these up to GA rank. It's mostly WP:ILIKEIT from you. theres no other real reason that comes out of you.Bread Ninja (talk) 00:35, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Admit it, you're only trying to make these articles the way you want describes you rather well. The overwhelming majority of Wikipedia users do not even know what GA rank is, and most of those who do honestly don't care. You like it one way, others do not. Dream Focus 02:21, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

"No one can edit" is factually false. Plenty of editors have worked on Eva articles, and in many cases I may not have even substantially edited them. (Your own work on the soundtrack merges is itself disproof...) --Gwern (contribs) 23:59 29 October 2010 (GMT)

Doesn't change the fact, the GA is better than not GA. We can't keep them the way we like them, we have to keep them from the way they should be. and what's your take on it? where could the timeline possibly be merged to, why doesn't it merit a speedy deletion??Bread Ninja (talk) 10:43, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

GA is a mechanical set of guidelines, with little correlation with actual quality. There are high quality articles that never got the GA sticker and there are low quality articles with the GA label. To prize GA over everything else is to miss the point. All this I have said before. --Gwern (contribs) 01:17 21 November 2010 (GMT)

Dream focus, if you want to state something, better be pro or con, not challenge to make a point.Bread Ninja (talk) 19:02, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

I never challenge things to make a point. Didn't respond to this earlier, since I didn't notice. This discussion can continue on the AFD, since the timeline article was nominated for deletion. Dream Focus 20:44, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Timeline merge

Ages ago, you proposed that the NGE timeline should be merged into Neon Genesis Evangelion. I've started up a discussion, could you please drop by and give your opinion on this? --Malkinann (talk) 04:14, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

• ping* --Malkinann (talk) 10:52, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm not really done with the personal project that was sucking up my time, but since everyone keeps pinging my talk page, I suppose I will just have to make time now. --Gwern (contribs) 00:03 30 October 2010 (GMT)

Thanks - a merge rationale would be appreciated. The discussion is here. --Malkinann (talk) 00:06, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

if you want to add in sources, do it yourself. Don't act like a hypocrit and say if i cared about them i would add the sources you placed, when you fall in the same situation too. dont expect me to do it for you. plus i've read some of them, and didn't find anything worth adding, and some of them just don't have anything really important or notable enough to mention.Bread Ninja (talk) 13:30, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

I don't have the time; you obviously do. (As the Roman Terence said, 'when two do the same, it isn't the same'.) If you didn't find anything in the Gainax commentaries, then you didn't look very hard - one of the things you complained about was the Wall of Jericho reference, which is explained in detail in the commentaries! (Yet another example of how you fail at research.) --Gwern (contribs) 13:40 7 November 2010 (GMT)

But those are first party sources. And In-universe related, you make it seem as long as Anno says whatever, it can be added to the article. that's not the case. I'm trying to reduce quotes for easy encyclopedic flow, not encourage it, so third party would be much easier. Point is, don't blame me for the article's state i'm not on here always, but i do bring in the little time to discuss and get a consensus. There are other articles out there that are in a sorry state. be thankful NGE has sources (self published or not). If you don't have time, that's fine, but don't think that you're always right. When it comes to NGE it's a whole different subject with you. But i noticed you stick more encyclopedic with other articlesBread Ninja (talk) 13:53, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Mention in Jules Wellesley's "Dune 7" blog

Hello. Enjoyed seeing mention of you in Jules' recent blog on "Dune 7". :) --SandChigger (talk) 02:14, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes, Jules had some interesting new material. If you are interested in my half of the conversation, I believe I CC'd them all to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DUNE_II/ . --Gwern (contribs) 23:42 29 October 2010 (GMT)

Nomination of Chet Ramey for deletion

A discussion has begun about whether the article Chet Ramey, which you created or to which you contributed, should be deleted. While contributions are welcome, an article may be deleted if it is inconsistent with Wikipedia policies and guidelines for inclusion, explained in the deletion policy.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Chet Ramey until a consensus is reached, and you are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Msnicki (talk) 00:41, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

CCSF is unreliable

CCSF - we have confirmation by the website owner project discussion陣内_Jinnai 17:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Alright, I've added it to the blacklist. --Gwern (contribs) 01:17 21 November 2010 (GMT)

Disputed non-free use rationale for File:Cartaya-cropped.png

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If it is determined that the file does not qualify under the non-free content policy, it might be deleted by an administrator within a few days in accordance with our criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions, please ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thank you. SchuminWeb (Talk) 18:36, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Biased editing of Technological Utopianism by Loremaster.

Due to your past contribution to Technological utopianism, you may currently want to help editing the Technological utopianism article because currently only one editor is contributing to the article. The Singularitarianism Article could also benefit from your help.

I feel Loremaster is editing Singularitarianism and Technological utopianism in a biased manner in accordance with his Save The Earth propaganda. Loremasters's ideology seems to verge towards Neo-Luddism. Here are the damming facts Loremaster has stated in discussion:

Loremaster says he is:

"...critical of techno-utopianism in all its forms."

Loremaster wants people to:

"...stop indulging in techno-utopian fantasies... ...so that we can all focus on energies on saving the planet."

Loremaster sees his editing as a 'fight' and he states:

"Although I am convinced that the world is in fact heading toward an ecological catastrophe, I think it can be averted and my optimism makes me want to fight to do do just that."

81.151.135.248 (talk) 11:41, 18 December 2010 (UTC)JB

1. LOL
2. Despite the fact that I openly admit to being a technorealist who is critical of techno-utopianism in all its forms, I have let never this point of view influence any of my edits or reverts of the Technological utopianism or Singularitarianism articles. On the contrary, I am the person most responsible for expanding the former article with content some would argue is “pro-techno-utopian” (i.e. passages from James Hughes' book Citizen Cyborg).
3. I find it disgusting that 81.151.135.248 would take comments I made out of context to falsely make it seem I see my editing of any article as part of my fight for the environment.
4. In light of this outrageous act of bad faith, I will do everything in my power to get this jerk banned from Wikipedia.

--Loremaster (talk) 00:31, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

I'm not eager to condemn anyone as a fanatic, and you edited the pages so much that the consolidated diff is an unreadable mess, but some changes do concern me - for example, is it really common to include subjective appraisals of intellectual movements like 'small'?

Hopefully I will have time this month or next to look at the diffs one by one. --Gwern (contribs) 01:22 20 December 2010 (GMT)

Hello Gwern. There was nothing biased in the use of the word "small". I was simply using the descriptor that someone else wrote in the History section of the article: "Many people believe a technological singularity is possible without adopting Singularitarianism as a moral philosophy. Although the exact numbers are hard to quantify, Singularitarianism is presently a small movement". Furthermore, most supppoters and critics of Singularitarianism describe it as a “small movement” without any negative connotation implied (unlike the word "fringe" for example) so I don't understand how the use of this term can be seen as “biased”. That being said, if you want to be able to judge my improvements, I invite you to compare the current version of the article with the one from November 1. --Loremaster (talk) 01:29, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

My comments are not taken out of context. So, Loremaster will do everything in his power to get me banned. I will do everything in my power expose the bias of Loremaster.

Loremaster, please don't call me a "jerk". Loremaster began our relationship with unprovoked hostile comments telling me to get a life, his insults have continued, and now he calls me a Jerk. Loremaster really needs a reality-check. If anyone needs banning it is Loremaster. 86.185.71.172 (talk) 14:42, 20 December 2010 (UTC)JB

I never said your comments were taken out of context. I said you took my comments out of context and distorted their meaning.

If canvassing Wikipedia to create a lynch mob against me using such an intellectually dishonest distortion of my views and edits is not the definition of a jerk, I don't know what is.

That being said, let's take this dispute back to the Talk:Singularitarianism page instead of engaging in a flame war on Gwern's talk page.

--Loremaster (talk) 22:31, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Audio theatre an article to audio dramas

Please if you have time and you know anything to it (I have seen that you have made edits in the article area which owns relations on it (Dark Empire)) , please look on the article Audio theatre, somebody placed a erase discussion on it. after we have had a merge discussion. It would be interesting what you would say to the merge and the delete discussion. )-: --Soenke Rahn (talk) 02:54, 22 December 2010 (UTC)