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June 4

WWII STATISTICS

I understand there was a large number of Christians killed by the Germans in Europe that were Jewish sympathizers. Do you know the numbers? I didn't see any posted for this category.74.237.246.9 (talk) 03:45, 4 June 2008 (UTC)jr

While our Holocaust article does not have a section on Christians, it does note that 2,500 - 5,000 Jehovah's Witnesses were killed for refusing to swear allegiance and that some Catholic priest were labeled homosexuals so they could be confined. Some other Christians were classed as political activists and detained. Dietrich Bonhoeffer is a famous example of a Christian killed by the Germans. Our article notes that Jews made up only 6 million of the 9 to 11 million killed. Rmhermen (talk) 15:28, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

I think that you probably mean those individuals who actively helped the Jews rather than simply sympathised with them. See the articles on Irena Sendler and Żegota for more. There's an interesting book, Forgotten Holocaust by a Dr. Richard Lukas on, inter alia , the subject. The Gestapo resorted to using agents provocateurs to uncover Jewish aid underground organisations and would also promise captured Jews their lives if they betrayed the rescuing organisation. --Major Bonkers (talk) 10:14, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Kristian?

In the article "list of Swedish monarchs", there is the following line: "1457-1464 : Christian I of Sweden (Kristian I)". However, the article Christian I of Sweden makes no mention of "Kristian". What is "Kristian" — is it the Swedish spelling of the name, the Danish spelling of the name, the Norwegian spelling of the name, some other alternate spelling of the name (such as an archaic historical spelling), or a mistake?

Also, what is the name "Kristian" in general? I'm guessing it's the standard spelling of "Christian" in some particular languages? Which languages?

—Lowellian (reply) 04:34, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Judging from the interlanguage links to Scandinavian wikipedias: "Kristian" is used in Swedish and Nynorsk. Christian is used in Danish and Bokmål. Icelandic uses Kristján. I found no corresponding pages on the Faroese Wikipedia. (Finnish, not a Scandinavian language, also spells them Kristian). For other languages that spell the name with an initial letter "K", the article on Christian (name) also gives Kristián in Czech, Krystian in Polish, and Keresztély for the Danish kings in Hungarian. ---Sluzzelin talk 05:21, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Kristian is most common in Norwegian (both forms, both Bokmål and Nynorsk), but Christian is also frequently seen. As most (all?) kings with that name have been Danish, their names are usually written Christian in Norway as well. 129.240.49.10 (talk) 09:10, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

In this context, "Kristian" is simply the Swedish spelling of his name.[1] Just to complicate things a bit further, he was born in Germany but Denmark was the leading nation in the Kalmar Union between Denmark, Norway and Sweden. In both Danish and German, his name is spelled "Christian". In Danish, he occasionally also referred to as "Christiern".[2] 83.89.43.14 (talk) 22:43, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

History of South America from 1900-1950

Where can I find information on the history of South America from 1900-1950--Goon Noot (talk) 09:26, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Try here, here, and Category:History of South America. Fribbler (talk) 11:41, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

I have looked at those places but have not found what I was looking for. I'm looking for information on what was going on in South America during ww1.--Goon Noot (talk) 15:40, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Red=Stop Green=Go

When (and how?) did the Red=stop & Green=Go convention come about? Looking at Traffic lights suggests that it hails from something nautical, but what? -- SGBailey (talk) 09:29, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

See Right of way, which has a nice illustration of why ships would be allowed to go when they see a green light from the other ship -- Ferkelparade π 09:36, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Also see red, which calls attention to its association with blood and fire, and green which is related to the word "grow".--Shantavira|^{feed me} 12:48, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Traffic lights for automotive use came about long after the railroads developed the "red-yellow-green" system. Red has meant stop as long as the ability to relate an action to a color has been around. There is a believe that this has to do with red being the color of blood - but who knows. It is just something embedded into the human DNA. As for the "go" color, the railroads originally used white. That was destined for failure. There are white lights all over that could be mistaken for a "go" light. Also, there is a case where the red lens fell out of a stop light and the driver thought it was white and drove at full speed into another train. So, the railroad adopted green for go because there was plenty of green lenses and it contrasted well with red. Why was there plenty of green lenses? They had been experimenting with green for "caution". So, once the caution light became the go light, they needed another caution color. Yellow was chosen. Well after the railroad had the red-yellow-green system, the first traffic lights were made. The first ones were red-green. Shortly afterwards, the red-yellow-green ones were adopted and, now, are standard. -- kainaw™ 13:17, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

One more important point is that colored lights as railway signals were originally only used at night (by day they used semaphores or similar devices) and consisted of a colored glass in front of an oil-lamp flame. (As that article shows, the two devices were normally combined into a single unit.) Later railway signals used colored glass in front of an incandescent light bulb, and so did traffic lights; it's only quite recently that LED signals, which are intrinsically colored, become available. What this meant that a signal color could only be adopted if a suitable color of glass existed. The color also had to be sufficiently distinct from similar colors, and it had to work with an oil flame (which ruled out any strongly blue color). So the use of red and green doesn't come from maritime tradition so much as from the absence of any other available color. There was a specific research project to develop a yellow glass suitable for signals at the time when the railways were realizing they had to abandon white. --Anonymous, 21:51 UTC, June 4, 2008.

There are two aspects to red. One is that it is a color which grabs human attention, universally. Not all cultures have the same recognized number of distinct colors, but if they have words for colors other than "dark" and "light", then the next one is always red. I (and others) suspect this is the relevance of red to blood.

But the other aspect is cultural. It does not necessarily mean "stop"; it means "attention." For this reason it has long been used for street signs, in particular ones as important as "stop". But in other cultures it has different meanings as well—don't get too hung up on things like "green is related to the word grow", that's not the case in all languages. In China "red" has associations with good luck, marriages, summer, and happiness—very different than in the West.

Of course, in one way, the choice of Red and Green for the binary street lights is horrible—Red-green colorblindness means that some 10% of the population has to just remember the position of the lights because they look identical to them, which is quite a lot (if it was red and blue, there would be no problem, for example). --98.217.8.46 (talk) 15:58, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Red-green colorblindness doesn't work that way. Red and green are easily distinguishable from each other. My difficulty is distinguishing close-together shades of red and orange. Imagine an orange light gradually shifting toward red. The point at which it becomes hard to distinguish from a pure red light comes a little bit earlier for me than it does for other people. If traffic lights were red-orange-green, I'd probably be depending on their geometrical arrangement. --tcsetattr (talk / contribs) 20:50, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

There are different types of red-green colorblindness. Some people cannot tell them apart at all; this is not uncommon. Don't generalize your own experience for all others. I had a friend who could not tell red from green whatsoever. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 16:06, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

-- Thanks folk -- SGBailey (talk) 16:44, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Seriously

Why is every country covered in counties, especially in seemingly uninhabited areas? This makes the world seem less natural. And could someone please tell me the furthest land point from any inhabited area (not including Antarctica)? Interactive Fiction Expert/Talk to me 11:03, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

The furthest land point from any inhabited area (not including Antarctica) would be the Arctic. 80.0.100.95 (talk) 00:55, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, they're not. Not every country has uninhabited areas, either. And doesn't the fact that countries exist make the world less natural, nevermind counties? What is "natural"? For the second question, does Extreme points of Earth help? Adam Bishop (talk) 11:54, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

ooch edit conflct but Adams right. Your first q cant be answered because it is inaccurate: not every country is covered in counties and your concern, "less natural", is so vague it can't be substantiated or easily answered. However even uninhabited areas are part of countries who do require that their regions need to be looked after and administered by local government even though they interpret that as meaning they should protect or exploit them.Your last question is interesting,but you arbitrarily exclude one continent. I would say north pole leaps to mind but you might not like that either; hopefully the answer you get will be more accurate , subtle and interesting than mine has been, or indeed your question allows. Mhicaoidh (talk) 12:18, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

The North Pole is not on land, though/ Adam Bishop (talk) 13:10, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Extreme points of the world#Remoteness might answer your second question. --Tagishsimon (talk) 12:55, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

It doesn't. Small islands don't count. Only the major landmasses - America, Australia, and "Eurafriasia" - count. Though it might be on an island (a relatively large one only). —Preceding unsigned comment added by IntfictExpert (talk • contribs) 13:13, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, if you are counting large islands, then you have to count the largest: Greenland. The furthest land point from any inhabited area on a large landmass other than Antarctica (if that accurately summarizes your criteria) would certainly be a point on the Greenland Ice Sheet in north-central Greenland. The exact location of the point would depend on whether you consider the scientific and military base of Nord, Greenland, to be "inhabited". Marco polo (talk) 14:13, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Good point Adam! And the OP has just wiped the place I live off the face of the earth so I guess I can't help here! Mhicaoidh (talk) 21:21, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Here in Ontario, the province is divided into different types of entities, essentially according to the population density. See List of Ontario counties. There are "single-tier municipalities", mostly called cities, such as Toronto; "regional municipalities" such as Niagara Region; "counties" such as Wellington County; and, in the sparsely populated parts of Northern Ontario, huge "districts" such as Kenora District. It's not all just counties. --Anonymous, 22:00 UTC, June 4, 2008.

There are no counties in Alaska or Louisiana. Corvus cornix_talk 23:10, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Luitpoldarena & Luitpoldhalle, Nuremberg

My query, posted on the Discussion page for Nuremberg, is about these two structures named for Luitpold, Prince Regent of Bavaria. -- Thanks, Deborahjay (talk) 11:25, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

There is a bit on them here, if that helps. And on the same page in the .de wikipedia. Fribbler (talk) 11:30, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

sales promotion

is there any relationship between ethical issues in sales promotion and consumer confidence in a product or service?

mohammed kamil farid —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.87.83.248 (talk) 14:35, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Hugo Chavez's image

Hi, I would like to know what Hugo Chavez's image is like to the people of Venezuela —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.152.221.179 (talk) 14:41, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Did you read Hugo Chávez and other relevant articles (such as Media representation of Hugo Chávez and Presidency of Hugo Chávez)? I think those should give you some idea of how he's seen by the citizens of Venezuela. -- Captain Disdain (talk) 15:03, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Operation Orchard

I was wondering if anyone could hazard a guess as to why the IDF risked sending in large numbers of men (4-8) and a number of aircraft including F16s and F15s undisclosed ELINT and tanker aircraft in Operation Orchard.

It seems clear that the mossad had a man on the inside that gave precise coordinates of the nuclear facility in Syria. With this information would it not have been safer to use cruise missiles to do the job instead of risking planes being shot down and having to have search and rescue teams in a hostile country. A spy satellite or the man on the ground could have given BDA.

The range was not that far in terms of the Tomahawk and a salvo of 10 or less could have destroyed the buildings causing the Syrians to panic and bulldoze the area?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.17.35.174 (talk) 17:14, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Just a guess, but perhaps the Israelis wanted to show the Syrians that their airspace could be penetrated. This sends a strong signal to Syria and other countries in the region (I'm thinking specifically of Iran, which I believe has similar air defenses). GreatManTheory (talk) 17:26, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

I really don't think you could even come close to comparing the air defences of Syria with Iran. If Iran was as badly defended as Syria surely they would have been bombed by now? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.17.35.174 (talk) 17:57, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I remember hearing that the two countries had relatively similar air defense capabilities. Moreover, as far as I know Syria had what was considered fairly advanced air defenses, so it's nothing against Iran to compare the two. As for your contention that Iran would surely have been bombed, I believe that's the point--so easily defeating Syria's air defenses tells Iran that it is vulnerable to this sort of attack, hopefully (from Israel's point of view) dissuading Iran from engaging in anything that seriously rocks the boat. GreatManTheory (talk) 19:59, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

As far as I know, Israel has no Tomahawks. Only the US, the UK and Spain have some. And those last two have only 60. GoingOnTracks (talk) 06:41, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Court and Constitution

Is it possible to challenge a state constitution law as against the constitution of the US and ultimately overrule it? E.g. 26 states in the US. have outlawed marriage between a same-sex couple. Isn't it possible for a couple to go to the US supreme court and put charges against their own state's constitution because of that? If it is possible what prevents them to do that? Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nyeditor (talk • contribs) 20:22, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

To your initial question, it's entirely possible. The US Supreme Court can (and has) nullified portions of state laws and constitutions. However, the USSC does not hear initial cases, known as original jurisdiction, (so a couple can't just go to the USSC)* and is under no obligation to hear appeals that have reached their level -- so that's the prevention, such as it is. — Lomn 20:42, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

*Exceptions exist, but not that apply to this sort of example. See the article above for details. — Lomn 20:44, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

So in what way can an individual resist the tyranny of the state? I mean take for example Lawrence v. Texas, that was initiated by an average couple. So, why not such a scenario is probable in the case of same-sex marriage? Is it possible for a group of lawyers across the country to take the case to the US supreme court? Is this also considered original jurisdiction? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nyeditor (talk • contribs) 22:11, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

If I understand correctly, original jurisdiction means you can't take it straight to the supreme court. You have to initiate the suit in the proper jurisdiction (in this case, the state courts) before appealing your way to the SCOTUS. From our article: Currently, the only original jurisdiction cases commonly handled by the Supreme Court are disputes between two or more U.S. states. — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 00:31, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

That's not a fair answer. You have just picked the part you wanted to answer and ignored the other parts. Please somebody read my questions again.

Barry Goldwater's Eligibility For U.S. President.

To be eligible to serve as president of the U.S. you must be a natural born citizen or living at the time the constitution was adopted. Barry Goldwater was born in Phoenix, AZ 01-01-1909 and Arizona was not admitted to the union until 02-14-1912 so does that not prevent his serving as president???? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.242.73.38 (talk) 21:16, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

See[3] a NY Times articleand [4] a Washington Post article on this topic. In Goldwater's case, opinion was that being born in a territory which later became a state was good enough to be "natural born." The Puerto Rico Herald [5] considered whetner someone born there would be "natural born" enough to become U.S. President and says that perhaps the "statutory American citizenship" Puerto Ricans gained in 1917 would make one eligible to be U.S President. The article considers other scenarios. Surely there has been a law review paper on this. As in December 2000, it could all boil down to what the Supreme Court thinks, and we all know how that can work out. Edison (talk) 21:54, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

There's no requirement that the territory later become a state. John McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone, then a U.S. territory, but now part of Panama, never a state. Legal opinion is near unanimous that he qualifies for the presidency. --D. Monack | talk 22:09, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Legal opinion of five members of the Supreme Court is all that is required, although I suppose the Senate could find someone ineligible despite the Supreme Court's findings. [6] is an article by John Dean who discusses a law review article on the topic. One interesting tidbit: a child of a foreign diplomat could be born in the U.S. but not be eligile to become President. Edison (talk) 22:15, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

And likewise being born outside the US is not an exclusion. Even If McCain had been born in territory completely unrelated to the US, to US parents, he would still be natural born. See previous discussion of this. DJ Clayworth (talk) 17:32, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Also, being alive at the adoption of the Constitution has nothing to do with it and doesn't exempt you from the "natural born citizen" requirement. There is some speculation that that clause was included to specifically prevent Alexander Hamilton from becoming president. --D. Monack | talk 22:21, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

If you are born outside the U.S. to American parents, you are a citizen. United_States_nationality_law#Acquisition_of_citizenship --Nricardo (talk) 03:27, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, but that's where the question as to the precise meaning of "natural-born" comes into play. — Lomn 03:49, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure why it should. Was jus sanguines considered the law of the land at the writing of the Constitution? --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 14:26, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Inventor of Lie Detector -- atomic bomb security?

On p. 107 of Now it can be told, a history of the Manhattan Project written by General Leslie R. Groves (military head of the project), it says:

Early in 1946 an additional safeguard was adopted (at Y-12, Oak Ridge)—a lie detector. It was used chiefly on people who had access to the final product (enriched uranium) chemistry building, to make sure no one had taken, or know anyone who had taken, material from the plant. The first tests were carried out under the supervision of the inventor of the instrument, and one of his assistants was retained at Y-12 to conduct tests whenever necessary.

Does he mean William Moulton Marston? Any way to tell? Any guess as to the name of the assistant? (The book doesn't say, and has no real footnotes or anything.) --98.217.8.46 (talk) 23:55, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

According to The Polygraph and Lie Detection the Oak Ridge tests were carried out by Leonard Keeler. Another source is In Search of the Magic Lasso: The Truth About the Polygraph, which says "Following the Manhattan Project, the AEC actually began a polygraph screening program at Oak Ridge in the 1940’s. It was initiated by Leonard Keeler, who was one of the original creators of the physical machine we call the polygraph today, and at the time the foremost polygraph tester." Gandalf61 (talk) 13:54, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Excellent, thank you very much, precisely what I wanted to know. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 14:08, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

June 5

Animal peace

Recently, I saw this on CNN. It was a video of a man walking with his dog, cat, and rat somewhere in Santa Barbara, California. On the video, I saw other people taking videos of everything. I had a feeling they'd be posted on YouTube. I hit the jackpot. In one video, there were two rats with the cat and dog. But on the rest of the other videos, there was only one rat. I'm confused. Are there two rats or just one? What kind of dog is the dog? Do all the animals have names?72.229.139.13 (talk) 02:40, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure you're referring to this video. The dog looks like some sort of Rottweiler mix. The face isn't really wide enough to be a full Rottie. Dismas|^(talk) 03:01, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Could you maybe post a link to the video with the two rats? Then it might be easier to see what's really going on here. Maybe you could email the poster of this video and ask them what they really saw that fateful day. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 07:34, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

I can't remember the video's title or the poster off the top of my head. How could that day be fateful? No one died.72.229.139.13 (talk) 22:52, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

True, 72.229! "Fateful" often does have bad notes, but it can be used like "fated" as destined to happen, turn out, or act in a particular way. This time, you happening to catch the unusual peace footage at that time. : ) Julia Rossi (talk) 02:41, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I found the poster. He/she goes by the name wanderingwilson. In that poster's video, I saw two rats, a cat, and a dog.72.229.139.13 (talk) 23:17, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Bernau, Germany

A photograph dated 1933 shows Adolf Hitler visiting a formation of uniformed SA holding swastika flags, at "...der Reichsführerschule in Bernau." How might I determine which Bernau this is? A look at their pages here and in the German Wikipedia (a language I don't read) hasn't yielded anything informative. -- Thanks, Deborahjay (talk) 07:04, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Since Bernau bei Berlin is the largest of the towns listed in the disambig page, and since it's close to Berlin, I would have thought it's likely to be that one. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 07:29, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

And in fact the German Wikipedia confirms this, see here. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 07:38, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

I took an overlook at "http://de.wikipedia.org" (what good to BE a German!) and you're right. The "Reichsführerschule" (of the DAF) was located in Bernau so it is clear that Hitler was there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.177.189.93 (talk) 16:57, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Witch trials in Poland

Hello! I am interested in witch trials, and have contributed to some articles in the subject myself. I think there should be a coverage of cases from alla European countries here on wikipedia. Now to the question. I am stuck now that I have arived to more "unusal" countries (= countries which are less translated into English). Three of those are in particular interest to me now, and I'll divide it into three sections and hope that I'm doing this right.

Does anyone here no anything about the witch trials in Poland? To feel a country have ben "covered", i think there should be about; the first case; the last case; the largest case; and the most well known and famous case. I hope there is someone here who knows and are willing to answer. I have heard about a case in 1775, 1793, and 1811. Does anyone know more about those? Hoping --Aciram (talk) 13:10, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Witch trials in Portugal

Portugal, is, if my information is correct, a country with very few witch trials. but I have heard about the few that did excist; a case in Lissabon 1599, where a groupdof women where burned at Rossi square; a case just a few years after; and one woman burned in Evora in 1626. This is very hard to find anything on, and I would be most grateful if anyone was willing to give me a bit of information about these three cases, or direct me to an English link about these cases. What were the names of the executed, what were the specific charges? I would, of course, also be grateful to know if they were more cases than this! Hopefully--Aciram (talk) 13:17, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Witch- and Vampire trials in Hungary

I have heard, that the witch trials in Hungary often included accusations about vampyrism. I do not know if this is true, but I must admit that sounds very intruiging! There seems to be some information about this on the net, but unfortunately, I cant' speak Hungarian. I have heard, that they were a witch craze in Hungray in 1738. Does anyone here know anything about the Hungarian witch trials? The first time, the last time, the largest trial, and if it was combined vampire trials? I would be most grateful for an answer! I can't ask for anyone to creat an article, of course, but I anyone would wish to do so, i would appreciate the smalest stub! Regards--Aciram (talk) 13:24, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

We have a stub on the Szeged witch trials which mentions vampirism. But see Witchcraft and Magic in Europe, Vol. 5: The Eighteenth and Nineteenth Centuries, at p. 161: "Hungary, moreover, had to contend with vampires, as is apparent from various vampire cases which occurred on the periphery of the kingdom in the first half of the eighteenth century." The citation for this is to Gábor Klaniczay. Xn4 23:30, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for your answer! I would like to know more about these vampire/witch trials. I can't ask for a description of a case, but perhaps someone can recomend an english speaking site on the net about this? It's hard to look if you have no specific words to google; for example names of the people involved, years and places. --Aciram (talk) 16:29, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Recruitment of executioners in the United States

I made a question on Talk:Capital punishment in the United States. How do federal and state governments in the United States recruit executioners for capital punishment? Are they recruited from prison officers? Do they receive special training? /Yvwv (talk) 13:40, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

aside from the controversy involving those who have taken the Hypocratic oath participating, I don't know anything about how they are choosen. From [7] here] I found a little detail: "Seventeen death penalty states require physician involvement and all practicing jurisdictions employ medical personnel...lethal injections are administered remotely..." Rmhermen (talk) 18:56, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Doesn't the Errol Morris documentary Mr Death detail how that executioner was recruited? --Major Bonkers (talk) 09:22, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

consequences of one party state.

over the year analyst have fear that Nigeria might become a one party state,what could be the consequences effect on the Nigeria comtemporary society? Riel. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.254.189.64 (talk) 13:51, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

If you phrased your question slightly less like it was direct from a homework/assignment you'd probably get a better response. Suffice to say consider the key words/phrases used in the question and focus on them. Nigeria itself isn't important because the overall themes would be expected to be the same regardless of the specific nation - though showing some understanding of historic political culture in Nigeria within your answer may help. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.221.133.226 (talk) 14:15, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia articles to read: Nigeria (Nigeria article on Italian Wikipedia), Politics of Nigeria (English only) and Single-party state (English only). I disagree with 194.221.133.226 - I think the specifics of the Nigerian situation are going to have to be in your answer. Nigeria has had a lot of trouble getting democracy going and there have been corrupt and brutal regimes in recent memory; this probably affects (in both directions) how much people are willing to push for political changes and what kinds of compromises look good. Have a look at Ibrahim Babangida, Moshood Kashimawo Olawale Abiola, Sani Abacha and Olusegun Obasanjo as well as Human rights in Nigeria. WikiJedits (talk) 19:06, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Poem analysis?

Hello everyone. I asked this first at the Language desk and they told me to ask here: Would it be okay (and helpful to me :) if I put up a poem here for analysis? It's not homework or anything, I just want to know what it's about ^^. (If this is absolutely not the place for such a thing, please tell me where I can go to get some help!) Thanks in advance, Kreachure (talk) 21:48, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Is it possible you can post a web link to the poem? Inserting the text of the poem here might not be appropriate for a couple of reasons: copyright, and length. --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:33, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, the poem is short, but it's probably copyrighted (not sure really). After looking a while for the page I got it from, the page doesn't exist anymore. The only place I could find it is in (oh boy...) a Harry Potter message board. (Well, that was depressing!) If you find that less cumbersome than posting it here, then be my guest (otherwise if someone wants me to post the poem please tell me!) Anyways, will you help me out? Kreachure (talk) 22:53, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

The only poem I could find at the Harry Potter link is a short exerpt from Wordsworth's "The White Doe of Rylstone". I don't have access to the full poem, and don't know it well enough to comment further. ៛ Bielle (talk) 01:10, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

(ec) The title, Phoenixology (Phoenixologie), is from the third film in Cocteau's Orpheus trilogy, Testament of Orpheus, according to one Anne-Michèle Fortin. It refers to the poet's multiple resurrections in the story. She says "Cocteau calls phoenixology the science which allows him who controls it to die and return to life at will."

As for the poem, it's pretty arcane. It's also in English, which means it's been translated from French, so for my money all bets are off when it comes to interpreting it. I was unable to find it in French on the Web. A wild stab at it as it stands: The first stanza is a mish-mash of images and references, the tight-lipped dream life and the rest its conversion in death, the mirror image of life. The second stanza is weird. I think he was having a go at somebody he knew, some actress, I'll bet. The twelve young soldiers surely refer to something specific that I'm unaware of. I really like the last stanza. He is trapped within corporeal existence, choices matter, a refutation of MacBeth's depressing dusty death, a stony one of his desiring in Les Baux. I'd sure like to see the original. --Milkbreath (talk) 01:14, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I think Milkbreath and I were looking at different poems at the link. This is what I saw:

"I am no Traitor," Francis said,

"Though this unhappy freight I bear;

And must not part with. But beware;--

Err not by hasty zeal misled,

Nor do a suffering Spirit wrong,

Whose self-reproaches are too strong!"

"The White Doe of Rylstone" by W. Wordsworth ៛ Bielle (talk) 01:25, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Right, same thing happened to me at first. The Cocteau thing is also here. --Milkbreath (talk) 01:40, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

That would be because I put it there (some time after). So yeah, it's Phoenixology (I warned you that link would be cumbersome!). And I, too, would love to see the original (especially after all the trouble I went through to find the poem at all). Kreachure (talk) 02:00, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, um... I guess I'll have to do with just one interpretation. :P Thanks. Kreachure (talk) 14:44, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

June 6

Why does Sikhism require men to have the last name Singh and women to have the last name Kaur to be equal?

I'm a Muslim that have interest in Sikhism. Is having the last name Singh or Kaur removes their caste or social status? Does it makes Sikhs equal? Jet (talk) 00:02, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Traditional legal practice that makes Sikh women equal to the men (same status). In the article Kaur, it explains that it's a compulsory middle or last name for women Sikhs as Singh is for men. It means "Princess" or "Lioness". Not a family name, but is "the final element of a compound personal name or as a last name". Hope this helps, Julia Rossi (talk) 02:21, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

There are many kinds of equality, but for practical purposes what this sharing of names seems to achieve is essentially a very public bond of shared interests. And although it runs against the teachings of the Sikh Gurus, many Sikhs are actually divided into the equivalent of castes. Xn4 14:12, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Book search

Not having much luck, so thought the infra-minded deskers might. Looking for a small book on arguments from the Talmud. It might have been called "Five (?) Arguments from the Talmud" (in English, about 10 years ago). At the time I couldn't afford to buy it so quickly flicked through it and now can't refind it on the net. Contents included setting out and explaining arguments from authority, tradition, scripture, precedent and I forget the other (unless it was only four). And if someone knows what that list is, would be helpful. Thanks, Julia Rossi (talk) 02:33, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Is this it? The Talmudic Argument: A Study in Talmudic Reasoning and Methodology has the dimension of 8.5 x 5.4 x 0.7 inches and was published in 1984. Not sure though since I'm unfamiliar with the field but I hope this will remind you of something.--Lenticel ^(talk) 03:48, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Lenticel, a good find – it's put me on a trail to some libraries here. Somewhere said it was orange, so I should add the other was creamy yellow, though the price is about right (~=>*hand above head*) – must be very obscure or limited release, Julia Rossi (talk) 05:28, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Native Americans

I need information on how the Native American's treat their elderly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.240.106.66 (talk) 08:04, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Do your own homework. You know, though, you might really want to know which nation you mean, and then which tribe you mean, as well as which period of history you're aiming at. Geogre (talk) 12:01, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Yep. Your question implies that they are a monolithic block, when in reality, there are many nations and tribes, thus many traditions and customs. Even the use of Native American is not universal and can be controversial. See Native American name controversy. --—— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk - 19:17, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Links Between Secularism and Islam

Possible links ?

• Averroes was a major muslim philosopher who is said to be the pioneer of secular thought in Europe

• Islam (sunnism) is secular because it has no clerics
• Islam (submission) subjugates faith and reason.
• Islam has embraced multiculturalism because it is a network of clans and tribes
• Islam views itself as inherently democratic as being itself the Ummah.

See Turkey as well —Preceding unsigned comment added by Steelersfan7roe (talk • contribs) 18:06, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

69.157.232.25 (talk) 12:37, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

And your question is ... ? --ColinFine (talk) 18:29, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Some thoughts:

1. Secular does not mean having no clerics - it means "not connected with religion"; neither sunnism nor the rest of islam falls into that category.
2. Multicultural can be a relative term. If Islam embraces a number of cultures, all very similar to each other, but rejects cultures that are substantially different from that, then it is stretching the point to call it multicultural.
3. Embracing a number of states (Ummah) does not make something democratic, especially if the people in those states have no real say in how they are governed. DJ Clayworth (talk) 17:05, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Creating a fake history for a viral campaign

Hi there Im looking to create a fake history for our viral campaign. We are creating a dance event in the uk which is based on the venue being built on an old mental asylum. Permisson has been granted by the club for us to do this, we would like to add a wiki page explaining about this asylum and the projects that happened there. The Event is called the Advokate Project and is based on doctors testing on patients to create a super soldier in the world wars. The Doctors used many different methods including the paranormal. Unfortunatly this all went wrong and the patients became possessed, shortly after the asylum burnt down. We will say it was exactly 100 years ago, with there being paranormal activity escalating over the past few months within the venue. That is a brief overview of the story, but we are wondering if it is ok to put something like this up so people believe it. I understand that you look for factual information but this is for viral promotion and need to know what the rules are on this. Hpe you can help

Regards

Advokate project team —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.240.200.252 (talk) 13:13, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Are you asking if you can create a Wikipedia page containing a fake history of a building in order to support a dance event? If so, then the answer is no. The rules on using Wikipedia for promotion are "You're not allowed to do it". If you're asking whether you can create another website somewhere to support the event, feel free. DJ Clayworth (talk) 13:17, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

And I might add that (IMHO) viral marketing of this kind is extremely silly anyway. --Richardrj ^{talk email} 13:51, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Buy some server space, then buy up a bunch of cheap webdomains and have them point to different directories. Make two that look like serious academic pages, but make another look like a total crackpot conspiracy page. Make the first two talk about experiments and say that none of them were successful, make the last one say they were successful and the government is hiding it and etc. It'll be more believable if you subdivide the conspiracy into multiple pages like that, in my opinion, because in real life it would be obvious that something was up if the "official" pages talked about all sorts of crazy shit and nobody noticed. Get the web design right and it doesn't matter a whole lot what the content is. As a (very complicated) example of a "fake history" website, there's none better that I know of than Boilerplate. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 14:06, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I would like to point out that as that post was made 4 years ago and nobody has heard of the movie... ... that said marketing campaign failed.

Thesis

What would be the thesis that diplomatic immunity should not be used to protest the diplomats when committing a crime? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.30.202.29 (talk) 14:44, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Have you read our comprehensive article on diplomatic immunity?--Shantavira|^{feed me} 16:15, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Christians

the christians in Lebanon and Syria are called the Maronite, but what about the christians in Palestine and Jordan? What are they called based on their beliefs? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.30.202.29 (talk) 14:45, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

• Some are called Roman Catholic, some are called Eastern Orthodox, depending on what they are. (One of my favorite couples is Palestinian; she's Catholic, he's Orthodox.) --jpgordon^∇∆∇∆ 15:19, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

The Maronite Church is one of a subset of Catholic churches (along with the Roman Catholic Church, the Armenian Catholic Church, the Byzantine Catholic Church -- I believe that there are 5 in total). Each church's Patriarch (or, "pope" in the case of the Roman church) traces his ecliastical ancenstry back to one of the original 12 apostles. Most Roman Catholics are taught that the Pope is the head of the Catholic Church. In fact, he is head of the Roman Catholic Church and considered "first among equals" among the five(?) Patriarchs. Wikiant (talk) 15:54, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

See Palestinian Christian for a good list of the many different denominations. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 15:56, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Not all Lebanese Christians are Maronite, though it is the largest group in that country. Christians in the Middle East belong to five broad groupings of churches:

1. Greek Orthodox (called Rūm Orthodox in Arabic) are the largest group, use Arabic (and some Greek) in their worship and are in communion with the Eastern Orthodox churches in Greece and beyond. There are Patriarchs of Antioch, Alexandria and Jerusalem.
2. Oriental Orthodox are a group of churches that broke with the Greek Orthodox in the fifth century. Each church uses its own language. They are the Syriac Orthodox Church (using Syriac), Armenian Apostolic Church (using Armenian) and the Coptic Orthodox Church (using Coptic). There are other Oriental Orthodox churches in Ethiopia and India.
3. Church of the East is a church that's strong in Iraq and uses Syriac as its liturgical language.
4. Catholic churches are numerous throughout the Middle East too. Some people are Roman Catholics, belonging to the Catholic mainstream (called Latīn in Arabic). However, there are semi-independent Catholic versions of all of the above churches: Greek Catholics, Syriac Catholics, Armenian Catholics, Coptic Catholics and Chaldean Catholics (from the Church of the East tradition). The Maronites kind-of fit in here too, as they are Catholics, but are a historically independent group using Syriac as their liturgical language.
5. Protestants are not so numerous in the Middle East, but there are some small churches.

I hope that makes things a little more clear. — Gareth Hughes (talk) 16:59, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Ph.D. thesis at a trade press?

I'm still some time off from finishing my Ph.D. thesis in History but I think it's probably a topic of sufficient general interest that there would be a chance that a trade press (like Knopf or FSG or Norton) would want to pick it up (and I write clearly enough and without excessive jargon for the transition to not be too painful). But I'm wondering if that would be perceived as a bad thing by prospective academic faculty hiring committees. Obviously the audience for both types of presses is different, and that would naturally necessitate being written a bit differently, but let's assume all other things being equal, and no intellectual rigor has suffered from being turned into a trade book, would it be terribly horrible to one's potential academic career to do such a thing? Am I totally wrong in assuming that the trick with trade books is to write clearly, not that one has to "dumb down" the text (as many academics seem to think is the case—and end up writing very poor trade books)? Any thoughts? --98.217.8.46 (talk) 16:15, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Some thoughts: on aiming at your target audience, I agree, clear communication is everything. The best kind is to be able to explain complex ideas in clear language without insulting them. Dumbing down implies patronising the reader and I think it does. Afaik, getting it published as PhD dissert would come first, then approaching a publishing house. As for reflecting on you, ground would have been broken by people like David Starkey and others who get into mass communication. When you say "trade" press, do you mean as a text book or for other historians? I'd talk the kind of people you feel might affect your prospects; and ask some professors. They'd probably give feedback to someone who hasn't crossed their desks as yet – you can then sift it through. Mike Dash (PhD in Naval history) wrote Tulipomania published by Gollanz and he's got a user page here. Julia Rossi (talk) 02:18, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

and a cheerful set of contributions! - some displacement activity; mind you those brief descriptions are intriguing...the man's obviously a talented writer... I'm just going to have a brief look at those entries... and I may be gone for some time... Mhicaoidh (talk) 09:38, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

In my cynical experience, academic dissertations should have as much waffle and as much jargon in them as possible in order to get high marks. If you follow normal rules of good style such as being concise and avoiding jargon (eg using the word "story" instead of "narrative") then you get a pooorer assessment. 80.2.197.210 (talk) 11:47, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Count of population

What's the best way to count the population of a nation? and how ? explain with much details? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.64.91.147 (talk) 18:27, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Try Census and demographics. Most/all of what you need should be in there. Fribbler (talk) 18:38, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

wittgenstein on popper

Hi, I seem to remember reading in an article in the Guardian Weekly that Wittgenstein criticised Popper simply because his philosophy wasn't merely footnotes to Plato, on the (apparent) assumption that all good philosophy was in fact just that. Have I got this right, because I can't find it by googling, or could it have been someone else levelling the charge at Popper? 203.221.126.3 (talk) 18:42, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

You are correct. Fribbler (talk) 18:47, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

That's a gripping story, but it doesn't seem to support 203.221.126.3's memory of what Wittgenstein may have said about Popper? The only mention of Plato is ascribed to Wasfi Hijab. Xn4 23:06, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Ah. On careful reading it was indeed Hijab. Fribbler (talk) 23:10, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for those answers. I think I actually came across that article googling, but only read the bit about Plato, and moved on. It may have been the actual article that I read in the first place. Even so, if anyone can add to this, I would appreciate it, since it may throw further light on the subject. But presumably I had just misremembered the article. 203.221.127.200 (talk) 17:25, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Presiddential Term of Office

Under the Constitution, the President can only serve two elected terms. If, after serving those terms, is he or she able to sit out a term and serve again? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.183.124.245 (talk) 19:43, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

From the article Term limits in the United_States: The Twenty-Second Amendment states that "no person shall be elected the the office of President more than twice..." So since serving a third term, whenever that may be, means being elected more than twice, then it can't be done. Fribbler (talk) 19:49, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

And the common follow-up question... He cannot be Vice-President either because he cannot be in a position to immediately become President. Now, if he get a cool shiny robot body and ceases being a person, can he be re-elected? -- kainaw™ 19:53, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Of course that was President Of Earth, so a different office entirely :-) Fribbler (talk) 19:55, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Any two-term President could be Vice-President. However, if the President died, resigned, impeached, etc., the VP would be ineligible to accede to the Presidency and it would go to the Speaker of the House. I'm assuming the second question refers to Futurama; we wouldn't know until it is brought to the Supreme Court. ~~

Really? What if there was less than 2 years left when (s)he was VP? Cause a VP can serve for up to 2 years if the president dies and still get elected for two full terms, no? --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 20:36, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

The 12th amendment states, "no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States." A two-term President is constitutionally ineligible to the office of the President, which is why I feel that he cannot be Vice President. -- kainaw™ 20:36, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

That's the generally accepted interpretation, but the actual wording makes it unclear — it makes you wonder, or it makes me wonder anyway, what on earth they were thinking of when they drafted the 22nd amendment the way they did. See 22nd Amendment#Interaction with the Twelfth Amendment. --Anonymous, 22:12 (yes!) UTC, 2008-06-06.

I fail to see what is unclear. The phrase "constitutionally ineligible" is very clear. A person who has been elected President twice is "constitutionally ineligible" to be President. If that is the case, the person is not eligible to be Vice-President. The contention in the article is unreferenced and makes terrible use of weasel words. I have a strong feeling it is something someone added because they were too stubborn to accept the law at face value. -- kainaw™ 20:55, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

What you fail to see what is that "constitutionally ineligible to be President" is not necessarily equivalent to be "ineligible to be elected President". Personally I think the intent was that it should be considered equivalent, but they needed to make it explicit, one way or another. --Anonymous, 19:55 UTC, June 9, 2008.

You're saying that the constitution doesn't explicitly prevent, say, Bill Clinton from being elected president again, but it does prevent him from being sworn in again? That would make the people's choice null and void. Did they really mean for that interpretation to ever be considered? If everyone knew that he could never actually get to become president again, what would be the point of going through the electoral process? -- JackofOz (talk) 23:26, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

He is making a reasonable argument. The 22nd amendment states that nobody may be elected more than twice. It does not specifically state that nobody can serve more than eight years - assuming the person was not elected but somehow took office. This was on purpose for situations like Ford. He took office midterm, for less than 2 years, without being elected. He was still allotted two elections - for a total of more than 8 years in office if he won two elections. However, I seriously doubt they considered this to be a loophole for a President to be elected twice and then slip in through the Vice Presidency. -- kainaw™ 23:50, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

What about if you were never elected but appointed by your brother for 4 years? Ooops um ignore that ;-) Nil Einne (talk) 22:54, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Something actually interesting would be a former two-term president being in the post of Speaker of the House, and then being in the position of assuming the Office of the Presidency. Similar for Secretary of State, etc.DOR (HK) (talk) 02:56, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

501(c)3 and State Universities

Is a state university (particularly in Ohio) a 501(c)3 organization? The 501(c) article is a little vague on the subject, and it seems that the foundation that supports scholarships and so forth at my university is one, but I'm not clear on if the university is. Thanks! Cigarette (talk) 20:01, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I doubt that location makes any difference in relation to tax-exempt status. The 501(c)3 is a federal classification which is offered to organizations dedicated to, for example, education. Not only is the 501(c)3 classification designed to help educational organizations spend money most effectively, but it would also be awkward for the federal tax system. If state universities would be obligated to pay sales tax, their operating expenses would rise dramatically, thus requiring additional federal funding, which would in turn come from the money they had just paid in taxes. As you could imagine, this makes a very ineffective financial cycle. My local university is a 501(c)3 organization, as evidenced by [8] .

If you are in a legislative mood, please read [9] for more concise information. Freedomlinux (talk) 21:00, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Printers' current practice in their relationship with authors

It used to be, when an author had created a writing - a fiction or non-fiction work - that he/she would submit an handwritten (a long time ago), or a typewritten (not so long ago) or a computer printed facsimile of his Work. I should like to know what the accepted practice is to day among the leading printers, if there is a commonality of practice. I take it that, today, every writer or would-be writer uses a computer and a printer. Would an author still send a printed set of pages to editors of his choice or would he simply send a CD, or, if his computer is old, a set of diskettes? Would the author have to go through an agent and if so, what would he send him ? Perhaps he is expected to do both or something else yet? Wildhobo (talk) 21:35, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

First off, the writer would need to approach a publisher rather than a printer. Most publishers will accept manuscripts in a variety of formats, and they will often specify what they want on their website. Sometimes their requirements are very specific, e.g. that you must supply the manuscript in Microsoft Word format, but most are more flexible than that. Also most publishers will not have the time to read an entire manuscript from an unknown author; they prefer to receive a synopsis of the book and a sample chapter only. They can then assess whether they want to see more and perhaps suggest improvements at that stage. Some writers hire a literary agent who understands the market and knows which publishers are most likely to be interested in that particular book. The agent can also advise the writer on editing matters, which fewer publishers are willing to do these days. Beware of vanity publishers. If your book is worth publishing, you will not need to pay a publisher in order to do so.--Shantavira|^{feed me} 06:54, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Shantavira's advice is quite right, but doesn't discuss format - I get the impression you may have a text you wish to distribute to publishers/agents who you hope may be interested. As Shant said a synopsis and up to three chapters is standard, and in terms of format check what each wants but generally a printed manuscript and equivalent on a CD is standard - not many firms like emails with attachments unless you are known to them. However most of these submissions are doomed never to be looked at. What is much better is to arrange a meeting directly with the publisher to discuss the project and what they are interested in. They have a business plan and you need to make your self part of it. This is where agents can be very handy, they have an existing relationship and can get you in the front door, at a price.

Shant and myself have both assumed that your original question meant publisher rather than printer, but if indeed you did mean printer, just remember that printing is the easy part! Distribution and sales are very, very difficult to achieve on your own. Mhicaoidh (talk) 09:18, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Plato's Allegory of the cave

What is the meaning of Plato's allegory of cave? --24.193.17.140 (talk) 22:25, 6 June 2008 (UTC)Abrar Ahmed

As with many allegories, there just isn't a definitive answer to that question. But see Allegory of cave#Interpretation. Xn4 00:00, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, looking at the article, I think the lead section should include a brief mention of the meaning/interpretations/issues-raised. Fribbler (talk) 00:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Josephus and the dance of the seven veils

[[Image:Example.

Please clarify what seems to be an error on the page describing the dance of the seven veils.

Wikipedia states that Josephus provided a name for the stepdaughter of Herod Antipas (correct) and also provided the name of the dance she performed before Herod.

This makes the reader assume Josephus named the dance "the dance of the seven veils".

In reading Josephus I could NOT find where he names the dance.

Where does Josephus name the dance, as you claim on that Wikipedia page, and what did he say its name WAS?

Thank you. 71.111.153.129 (talk) 22:23, 6 June 2008 (UTC)J. Salkieldt

Looking at chapter XVIII of Antiquities of the Jews, it seems to me (as it does to you) that Josephus does not name the dance. And of course he has no reason to mention Salome anywhere else. Xn4 23:54, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Tracing this back through the history, it appears that at some moment there was a true statement: "Details enriching the story in later Christian mythology include providing a name for the dance, and describing the purpose of the dance as being to inflame King Herod with incestuous desire so that he would treat John as she wished". Another correct statement was added: "The historian Josephus gives the stepdaughter's name, Salomé". These two statements were coupled in a very ambiguous way: "The historian Josephus gives the stepdaughter's name, Salomé and other details ..."). This was next misinterpreted, and edited to be unambiguous, but in the wrong interpretation: "The historian Josephus lists the stepdaughter's name as Salomé and provides other details ...".  --Lambiam 05:57, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

June 7

Nguni Use of space and acquisition of territory in the nineteenth century

Does anyone know about the way migrating Nguni (especially Zwangendaba) conceived of space and used territories in the nineteenth century southern Africa. Possible answers might refer to ways of territorial acquisition, the meaning of public and private space, etc. References will be well appreciated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ndzesop (talk • contribs) 00:48, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Why should I keep my father's surname if I change my name to a Arabic/Muslim name?

I was thinking about changing my name to Abdullah Muhammad Ahmad. I'm using Abdullah Muhammad Ahmad as my pseudonym. But some other Muslims say I can't drop my surname (change it). It's orthodox to retain the surname but unorthodox to replace it. I rather go with the unorthodox way because it too have to say to some people, uncommon, and adoption of religion/culture purposes. I have a long last name with 10 letters. Writing and spelling is like this: C*o*a*a*d*. I may want to adopt a Arabic/Muslim because I'm Muslim and Arabic is important in my religion. My family is from Thailand where one one family can use a given last name so the last name I'm having is too long. I'm the only Muslim in my family. My family are all Buddhists. I would like the family to adopt a new last name (surname) since we may have that surname that is too long. My future family will be "Muslim". This is like Arabization to my family because of the Arabic/Muslim surname. Should I keep my surname or I have choice to change it? Note: I am not asking for legal advice. I just want simple answers. Jet (talk) 05:14, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

I doubt there is a factual answer for your question. Changing your name appears to be a matter of personal preference based on, in your case, religion, culture and family. Whichever you choose is a statement to your family and others of what is most important to you. Before you decide, you might consider that your children may have the same options, both in choosing a religion and in choosing a name. What you do now may set a standard for what you expect of them and for what your actions establish as permission for their choices. ៛ Bielle (talk) 06:30, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

After a recent court case in California, the husband can take the wife's surname there. If you are unmarried and plan to marry someone with an Arabic surname there, that'd work. User:Krator (t c) 07:09, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Why is a ten-letter name too long? What's wrong with "Washington" and "Eisenhower"? If your name was Pichaironnarongsongkram, I'd sympathize. Surnames are a recent invention. In the Islamic Golden Age Muslims did not have surnames, and a notion that changing one's surname goes against orthodox Islamic teaching must be based on a misunderstanding.  --Lambiam 07:43, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Absentee ballot

I'm going to be at school in NC during the election this november but since I'm a CT resident and I'm (about to be) registered in CT I won't be able to vote there. I know I would need to do an Absentee ballot, but I have no idea how to do something like that and could use some instructions if someone has them. Thanks :). Chris M. (talk) 06:13, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

This webpage of the Secretary of State of Connecticut contains information about absentee ballots, including links to application forms. A phone number you can call for information is 1-800 540-3764.[10]  --Lambiam 07:54, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. Chris M. (talk) 17:34, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Stock exchange and share things

I just turned 18 and I really wanna start putting small amounts of money on the stock market and turning it into large amounts :P. How do I go about buying shares firstly and which shares are the best ones to buy?

First of all, try reading the Efficient market hypothesis article. This suggests that it is practically impossible to predict or forecast the market or individual shares - or else (I think) you need a PhD in maths or statistics to do so after a lot of research. So if you want to invest, choosing shares at random is as good a method as any, or you need very high levels of skill, experience, or luck. In other words, it is practically impossible to know which shares are the best ones to buy. But apart from that, buying a set amount of shares every month would probably suit you - I do not know what specific investment products are available. Of course, investment businesses of various kinds spend a lot of advertising money trying to convince people that the EMH is not true.

On the other hand, there are some market anomalies (a too brief article - see http://www.investorhome.com/anomaly.htm instead) which could be exploited perhaps. High yield is another one. 80.2.197.210 (talk) 11:05, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

As for "How do I go about buying shares", you have to go through a stock broker, who will collect a fee for every time you buy or sell shares. Different brokers deal with different kinds of customers and you would need advice appropriate to the country where you live. --Anonymous, 09:21 UTC, June 8, 2008.

Regarding "which shares are the best ones to buy?", I wouldn't tell you if I knew but I would recommend reading anything Warren Buffet has written that you can get your hands on. Warren Buffett#Writings seems like a good place to start. He's a very strong proponent of value investing, for example.

By the way, if capital markets were efficient, how would you explain Buffet's success? Research has shown (and Buffet agrees) that the weak-form hypothesis is likely true so that rules out the Maths/Stats PhD thing. There's no conclusive evidence regarding the other forms of the hypothesis. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 12:41, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

"how would you explain Buffet's success?" - even if a large number of people make investment decisions purely at random, one of them will be more successful than the rest. 80.0.104.234 (talk) 23:06, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

My word! Do you actually believe that the richest man in world "just got lucky"? And I suppose you would claim that this company's exceptional growth over 40 years was luck too. Yes, the chances that at least one investor out of a thousand will get lucky are quite high. But what would be the probability that one of those investors will continuously get lucky over many decades? Zain Ebrahim (talk) 09:49, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Do you believe that oldest person in the world "just got lucky" ? If one tiny thing had been different in their life, they could have died decades ago. Actually, its a plausible hypothesis - we assume that the successful have some secret formula, forgetting that there always has to be someone at the far end of the bell curve - see survivor bias. Gandalf61 (talk) 10:55, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

That's a specious analogy: if the oldest person in the world "made a mistake", it's over but if Buffet makes a mistake on the capital market, he can cut his losses and learn from that mistake and end up better off for it. Also, survival analysis studies have found significant relationships between lifestyle, culture, diet etc and mortality rates. So it would be possible to find very old people who weren't lucky but happened to have the appropriate values for the relevant variables.

There is no conclusive evidence whatsoever indicating that equity and debt markets are semi-strong-form efficient. Some event studies are non-conclusive but these don't really test for fundamental analysis. The other event studies have found evidence that excess abnormal returns can be earned after certain "event"-type information is released. The rest of the studies testing for semi-strong-form efficiency look at the predictability of future rates of return using available public information. The outcome from the majority of these studies are vastly against the EMH.

The simple fact is that most investors don't have the resources/expertise to go through 200 page annual/interim/quaterly reports, SEC filings, newspapers and periodicals and sift out the relevant bits. Why is it so hard to believe that some people can? And I don't see how the existence of losers and survivorship bias necessarily implies that fundamental analysis doesn't work. It does. There is no evidence which concludes that it doesn't but there are several counterexamples to the hypothesis that it can't.

We don't subject other talented people to the same treatment by calling theories that they're just lucky plausible, why do we do so to this one? Zain Ebrahim (talk) 13:58, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Getting to the OP's first question: The most common way to buy stocks is through a broker. They typically will charge you for each stock purchase. Discount brokers as the name suggests charge lower fees but don't offer personalized advice. Other options include: dividend reinvestment plans (DRIPs) and stock mutual funds. DRIPs are free but your choices are limited. Mutual funds are usually free to purchase if you go directly to the mutual fund company and can provide instant diversification but they include management fees of about 1% of your investment annually which eats into your returns a bit. All this advice is from my perspective as a U.S. investor. Don't know where you are, so the details may differ. --D. Monack | talk 00:09, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Formula for price and sales graph line

Generally (with some exceptions) lower prices mean more goods are sold, higher prices mean less sales. If price and sales is plotted on a graph (which may be "chart" in American English), its probably going to be a curve of some sort. Has anyone actually worked out a formula that relates price to number of sales? Yes, I anticipate you may point out that the sales volume depends on many other things apart from price, and it may be difficult to determine the relationship even under experimental conditions. 80.2.197.210 (talk) 10:56, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

This is a basic homework question in economics. See supply and demand for plenty of information on the interaction between price and demand. -- kainaw™ 15:06, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

It is an actual mathematical formula I am after please, preferably one obtained empricably. If its so basic, please be so kind as to tell me such a formula. 80.2.207.208 (talk) 16:08, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Apparently I wasn't clear enough... There is no formula. The creation of a formula is a common homework question. You are given a bunch of price/demand/supply values and asked to draw the graph for that specific instance. Since it is a completely different graph for any product at any point in time, you have a different formula. If, by chance, you happened to read supply and demand, you would easily see how there are common types of graphs/formulas for certain types of products. -- kainaw™ 16:13, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

I did look at the article and also the demand curve article. Cannot see any formula. It is a formula I am after. I have studied economics among other related subjects for a number of years, by the way - I won't dazzle you with my qualifications. In all the decades that economics has been discussed, it seems likely that somebody at least has tried to do an empirical determination of the formula for such a curve - that is what I am after. 80.2.207.208 (talk) 16:21, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

There is no formula. Within limited price range fluctuations, reasonable fits can sometimes be obtained by a formula of the form Demand = C × Price^−E, in which C and E are positive constants. (E for Elasticity.) However, for most commodities there are usually sizable fluctuations in demand all the time even when the price remains fixed, which makes any empirical construction of a formula precarious and of dubious value. A slump in sales after a price raise is often temporary. Demand may even increase when the price is raised because the consumer is inclined to ascribe higher quality to higher-priced goods.  --Lambiam 17:16, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

There is no formula, and yet there is a formula. That's very Zen. Anyone know of any papers that have tried to study the price/demand curve empirically please? (And so, as many other people have noted, the whole edifice of economics is not based on any empirical basis). 80.0.100.139 (talk) 19:58, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

This is getting to the point of childish stubbornness. There is not universal formula. There simply isn't. If you absolutely must have one, how about price = demand / supply. Of course, that won't work in any real case, but it is a formula. I already pointed out that the creation of a formula is a common homework/test question. If you took economics, then you've done this. You are given price/demand/supply data and asked to create a "best-fit" curve. That curve can be represented as a formula. However, that formula/curve is only valid for that single set of data. It is absolutely useless for any other economic case. I simply do not know how to make this any clearer - especially to someone who claims to know economics. -- kainaw™ 20:51, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

"That curve can be represented as a formula." Could anyone point me to any real-life data for such a curve please? Thanks. 80.0.104.234 (talk) 23:14, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I'll try again to make this as painfully simple as possible. Consider the historical cost of oil: 2000=$33.39, 2001=$27.29, 2002=$26.61, 2003=$31.62, 2004=$41.84, 2005=$53.77, 2006=$60.73, 2007=$64.92. Supply of oil is very steady (because of OPEC) and demand has increased steadily every year since the 40's. So, in this basic economics homework question, you are asked to plot the cost per year. Consider X to be the year and Y to be the cost. You get out your graph paper and mark the years, 2000, 2001, 2002... across the X axis. The low cost is $26.61. The high cost is #64.92. So, you mark 26, 27, 28, 29... all the way to 65 up the Y axis. They, you plot each point (X=2000, Y=33.39), (X=2001, Y=27.79)... Now, you can see that there are two curves. This is obviously a Y=AX³+BX²+CX+D formula. So, you use your "best fit" curve methods to come up with a formula. You have many plot points to work with. For example 33.39=A*2000³+B*2000²+C*2000+D. Depending on the method you are asked to use, your formula will have different values for A, B, C, and D - and no values will likely produce the exact values from the plot points. That is why it is called a "best fit", not a "perfect fit". -- kainaw™ 23:58, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Demand is usually described as a point-in-time measure of quantity demanded as a function of price, not price as a function of time. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 09:28, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Not "based on any empirical basis"? A quick google search will lead you to (I'm not kidding) hundreds of thousands of journal articles involving empirically testing economic theory. To find the formula relating price and quantity demanded for a specific data set, you start with price and quantity sold (as quantity demanded is not known until *after* you have the formula) and factors other than price that are relevant to demand and supply (e.g., consumer income). Then apply the two stage least squares procudure. This will give you an estimate of the demand function. Wikiant (talk) 11:04, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Ask I asked above, could anyone point me to real-life data for such a curve please? And could anyone point me to any papers that have empiricably investigated such a curve with quantitative results please? Thanks. 80.0.104.234 (talk) 23:14, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Simple. Go to your library and pick up any textbook on economics that you can find. Inside, you will find a section on supply/demand and historical prices. Look in the index for "best fit" and you'll find a section on attempting to fit formulas to real-world data. -- kainaw™ 23:58, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

To the OP: have you even thought about perhaps considering Wikiant's advice? Regarding your "new" question, if you find Kainaw's suggestion beneath you, you should know that the Refdesk doesn't do the OPs' work for them. Especially the ungrateful ones. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 09:34, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Meta-themes of making money

I'm wondering if it is possible to list all the possible ways of making money. In the abstract rather than specific cases. For example money can be made by 1) putting two or more things together to create something with a value greater than the sum of the value of the parts, 2) buying something now which has a higher value in the future, 3).....? What other themes of making money are there please? Buying a lottery ticket might be another. 80.2.197.210 (talk) 11:40, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Don't forget about the value of labor itself. Give me a piece of wood, and it's worthless. If I apply some labor to the wood (carve it into a little statue), suddenly I can charge for it. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 14:29, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

This would be covered by 1) above, as you are putting wood and labour together. 80.2.207.208 (talk) 16:02, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

And don't forget about intellectual property. By carving that wood in a statue of Mickey Mouse it enters into a whole other regime where the labor and the materials are not the only salient aspects to its cost. Personally I don't think there's an easy way to parse out all of the "ways of making money". There are different ways to talk about value itself, which is probably more worthwhile. I think someone has tried that before, though. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 14:30, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

If Das Kapital does provide such a list (which I rather doubt), please could someone point out where it can be found. Thanks. 80.2.207.208 (talk) 16:11, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

I assume that it can be reduced to two possibilities:

1. Take money (or something of value that may be sold for money). For example, stealing.
2. Make the appearance of value and exchange it for money.

The first one is obvious. If you steal something, you can get money - especially if you steal money. The second isn't so obvious. In selling objects, the appearance of value is the object itself. In the labor example above, the labor is the appearance of value. In entertainment, the movie, game, show... is the appearance of value. Even in something like a telephone scam, the scam is the appearance of value that generates money. I just thought of counterfeiting. In that case, the fake money is the appearance of value that is traded either for money or something that may be sold for money. -- kainaw™ 15:04, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

OK, so 3) could be "steal it". But neither of the two comments above include 2), suggesting that there may be other themes also. 80.2.207.208 (talk) 16:15, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

(N+1). Begging.

(N+2). Extortion.

(N+3). Finding lost coins (e.g. under slot machines or in the beach sand).

(N+4). Insider trading.

(N+5). Bounty hunting.

(N+6). Marrying old rich people.

 --Lambiam 17:27, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I think begging and marrying old people could be 4) being given money by sympathy or affection; extortion would be 3) stealing it; insider trading would be mostly 2) and in the past was not illegal. Finding lost coins and bounty hunting (is that getting a reward for capturing criminals?) is interesting - could be 5) searching for lost assets. This reminds me of Vladimir Propp's (sp?) narrative morphology. 80.0.100.139 (talk) 20:17, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Extortion, while illegal, is not theft. In theft the criminal takes the money or property, possibly without the victim's knowledge, and definitely without their consent. In extortion, the victim gives the money or property. In the case of young people marrying much older people, there is a plausible possibility that at some future time they will inherit their spouse's wealth and become rich (as for the late Vickie Lynn Marshall, née Hogan). This then is the effect of the laws regulating inheritance, and no sympathy or affection is involved in the eventual transfer of property. In insider trading, the criminal buys below value; because of the use of inside knowledge, the buyer knows that the shares bought are actually worth more than the seller knows at trading time. The later increase of value on the market is real, but intrinsically the shares did already have the higher value at trading time, and thus this cannot be categorized as an instance of "making the appearance of value".  --Lambiam 10:45, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I think the OP was referring to his/her number 2 (not Kainaw's). <nitpick>Selling above value on material non-public information also constitutes insider trading.</nitpick> Zain Ebrahim (talk) 12:09, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

In most of the cases mentioned, they fall under the number 2 I mentioned. In begging, a person offers a social value in exchange for money (the person exchanges money either to feel better about themselves or to get the bum to go away - both are valuable). In extortion, the value that the money is exchanged for is the peace of not being hurt, having your place burned, being framed for some crime... Bounty hunting is simple. Some law enforcement finds value in catching criminals and is willing to pay. In marrying old rich people, the companionship is the value exchanged. It all comes down to exchanging value for money.

There are two cases mentioned that don't fit this. Insider trading is not a unique way to make money. Buying/selling stocks is the money making method. Insider trading simply increases the money made due to knowledge of the stock values in the future. If you sell that knowledge to someone else, the knowledge is the value that is exchanged for money. Finding lost coins equates to the first point I used - taking money. You can find coins all day and not make any money if you don't take them. -- kainaw™ 20:46, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't agree that trading (inside or otherwise) stocks is selling knowledge. Say you have a stock and are willing to sell it for $5 but I "know" it's worth $10 and I buy it from you for $5. I haven't sold knowledge to anyone (I just earned a profit off it).

Maybe if we changed "making money" to "creating wealth" then your two possibilities could be restated as:

1. Take value. (Not necessarily illegal.)
2. Make value (or the appearance thereof).

In either case the assumption is that the value may be exchanged for money. Now, insider trading falls under 1 because by buying the stock from you, I "took" $5 of value from you. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 21:02, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I was covering both types of insider trading. When you use your own knowledge, you are still just buying/selling stocks. The possible increase in value of the stocks is the value that is being traded for money. The second type of insider trading is when the person with the inside knowledge does not do any stock trading. He or she sells the knowledge to someone else to do the trading. In that case, the knowledge is the value that is traded for money. -- kainaw™ 23:39, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, selling knowledge is the same as selling anything else and would fall under 2. But when you're inside-trading you're not making the value (the value's already there - the "loser" just doesn't know it). You're taking it. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 07:35, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

It is my opinion that knowingly misrepresenting the value of something is not "taking" value. Pretty much all of real trade has to do with misrepresenting the value of something. In the housing market, the sellers misrepresent the value of the home to get more money. Automotive dealers misrepresent the value of their autos to make more money. The government misrepresents the value of politicians to take more taxes. The lottery misrepresents your chances of making winning even a single dollar to get more money. Restaurants misrepresent the value of the food to make more money. I don't consider it necessary to specially classify an inside trader who misrepresents the value of a stock. -- kainaw™ 12:06, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. "Successful" misrepresentation "makes" value. Insider trading isn't misrepresentation, it's merely buying at an inefficient price to earn an (unfair) profit. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 14:40, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Question about copyright renewals

Let's say you had a poster from a film that says "Copyright so-and-so Pictures, 1950." The U.S. Copyright Office renewal database the copyright for the film was renewed in 1978 or so. But it doesn't say anything about a renewal of the copyright on the poster itself. Are they one and the same, or is the poster is in the public domain? Is the poster necessarily a derivative work of the film, and thus covered by its copyright renewal? --98.217.8.46 (talk) 14:26, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

That is an interesting question which asks for legal advice and therefore cannot be answered here. --Anon, 09:23 UTC, June 8, 2008.

You don't have a talk page so this has to go here. The OP's asking if the film's copyright renewal covers the poster. While I agree that he/she is unlikely to get a good answer here (or from anyone besides a professional), it's not a request for advice. If someone happens to know the appropriate legislation, they should link it. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 12:58, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

spanish sailing ships of the 17th century

Did any spanish fleets sail from Spain to New Spain during the year 1640Thetreasurehunter (talk) 16:06, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, but some of the treasure lost on their return voyage has already been plundered. A twenty ship Flota de Indias left Seville and made the crossing in 64 days. As far as i can tell, all twenty arrived safely in Veracruz June of 1640. On the return voyage in 1641 the fleet was struck by a hurricane and ten ships were lost, including 600 ton almiranta (vice admiral's ship) Nuestra Señora de la puria y limpia Concepción which carried somewhere between 35 and 140 tons of silver. In 1688 Captain William Phips recovered either 25 or 32 tons of silver from the wreck of Concepción, and in 1978 Burt Webber found a further 60,000 silver coins at the site.

Seville

There should have also been a galleon fleet from Seville to South America in the same year, but i cannot find any reference to one.—eric 02:47, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

??? Seville isn't a port. Corvus cornix_talk 19:46, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Not a port, but The Port. High tide carried the commerce of New Spain 54 miles up The Guadalquivir to the place Fernando de Herrera described as "not a city but a world."—eric 23:59, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Here's a picture. Xn4 00:14, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Seville is still an active port with a shipyard. Richard Avery (talk) 12:29, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

How awesome. Thanks for enlightening me.  :) Corvus cornix_talk 16:24, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Vice President term limit

Can a person who has already served two terms as U.S.vice president serve as U.S.vice president again under another U.S.president? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.251.251.221 (talk) 16:16, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes. DAVID ŠENEK 16:52, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes. However, if a person has already served two terms as as the President of the United States, he or she cannot be a running mate as a Vice President. Jtg920 (talk) 20:34, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Jtg920, are you saying that someone who has served two terms as President cannot be elected Vice President, but can be appointed Vice President? DJ Clayworth (talk) 16:49, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure what is going on here, but only a screen or two higher on this page the answer given here is contradicted. The quote from the constitution is that "no-one who is constitutionally ineligible to serve as president can serve as vice president". DJ Clayworth (talk) 16:56, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Again, see 22nd Amendment#Interaction with the Twelfth Amendment. Oh, it went away. Please don't do that while we're talking about it. I've restored the section, which already has a tag asking for citations. --Anonymous, 20:02 UTC, June 9, 2008.

Medical cost that can be covered by the state

For practical reasons, (I think) the Dutch government must limit the expense that can be paid by the state for an individuals medical assistance to €80,000 per year. Is there a list of these values for other countries? How might they be derived? How does the average "value" of an individual factor in? I suppose it has to do with gross domestic product? Like if a person brought a certain amount of money into the country, it might not be sensible to allow them to pass for a sum below this amount. How does it work? ----Seans Potato Business 16:49, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh, no; oh yes.

I watch more BBC America than is good for a body. I keep hearing reference to a sort of catch phrase, seemingly from theater, where one side says something like "Oh, no it isn't!" and the other side says "Oh, yes it is!" One example is in a Monty Python sketch involving Puss in Boots. I just heard it again on "Cash in the Attic". What is the origin of that? --Milkbreath (talk) 17:00, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Pantomime -84user (talk) 17:32, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

O'Rly? Chris M. (talk) 17:33, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

It is a common way for English kids to conduct an argument regarding the factuality of a disputed issue. How do they do this at the other side of the North-Atlantic divide?  --Lambiam 17:35, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

"Uh-huh!" "Uh-Uh!" Wrad (talk) 17:41, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

That's one way. Beyond that, if it the matter is a particularly convoluted issue involving, say, a double dog dare, the one kid's lawyer will call the other kid's lawyer. Or they have a gunfight. --Milkbreath (talk) 17:48, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Are you sure that kids use it that way, Lambiam? It doesn't ring for me (though it's true that I'm not around kids very much). To me it is only the pantomime riff, as 84user said (usually augmented with a 'Look behind you!'). I remember hearing American children on television and films retorting to "It is not!" with "It is so!" and thinking how lucky they were to have a way of doing so: our "It is" sounded weak beside it. --ColinFine (talk) 18:49, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Punch and Judy routine?--Wetman (talk) 06:59, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Pantomime ? Part of the "he's behind you" routine.I've heard those exact words used in pantomime.hotclaws 08:08, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

It's pantomime. AndyJones (talk) 12:46, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

ontario canada

question: although this township covers alot of ground, the british name means little? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kcron (talk • contribs) 19:29, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

According to our article, the name is derived from a Huron word: ontarí:io, meaning 'Great Lake'.—eric 20:22, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

And it is a province, not a township, more like a state if you know America, except much bigger in area. If the questioner is puzzled by "Ontario", I wonder what he/she thinks of "Saskatchewan" or "Manitoba". ៛ Bielle (talk) 23:30, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

I assume it is a riddle about a township in Ontario. Little Township in Cochrane? Pettypiece Township in Kenora? List of townships in Ontario would help if there weren't thousands of them. Most townships cover "a lot" of ground; what is "a lot"? What is "British" opposed to? French? A native name? This is not a very good riddle. Adam Bishop (talk) 03:24, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Tiny, Ontario - Eron^Talk 20:18, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Oscar Wilde quote

There was some quote somewhere, about the fact that "everyone is someone else" with respect to their thoughts and ideas being a collection of those of previous people. I can't remember exactly. I think it was attributed to Oscar Wilde. ----Seans Potato Business 21:30, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation. Oscar Wilde, De Profundis, a.1905. Mhicaoidh (talk) 23:47, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Here is one text [11] and another [12] that needs downloading, but be aware there are several versions as it was originally a letter written in prison and not published til after his death. Mhicaoidh (talk) 00:09, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks very much. ----Seans Potato Business 14:47, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

June 8

Middle Ages

What were the forms of communication is the Middle Ages? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.223.15.49 (talk) 03:02, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Speaking, of course. Writing, for those who could read - usually in Latin, later more often in a vernacular language. Images combined with speech to communicate with the masses who could not read or write - at first paintings or mosaics, later stained-glass windows, in a church telling Bible stories, for example. Flags and later coats-of-arms to communicate who was on whose side in a battle. To take a message a very long distance, you had to walk, ride a horse, or take a ship. Basically, the same as everywhere else in space and time until the invention telegraphic and telephonic communication. Adam Bishop (talk) 03:19, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Also minstrelsy. --Allen (talk) 03:31, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Ah, of course, how could I forget that. Minstrels, troubadors, trouveres, minnesingers, etc. Adam Bishop (talk) 04:11, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi, this sounds a bit of a home work question. I'm guessing you are really asking about communications between and within kingdoms - a quick google reveals a lot of academic papers available that go into detail on that. But you really need to give a bit more detail, such as region, before anyone can really help. Mhicaoidh (talk) 05:07, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Related to minstrels are Town criers. For longer distance communication, they had beacons that could be lit in a relay to warn of invaders over a long distance very quickly, but which couldn't carry much information. Sound that travels long distances, such as yodels, whistles and drums could also be used, although these still could not carry as much information as human speech. Let's not forget Carrier pigeons, though! Laïka 16:02, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

See also Smoke signal, Heliograph, Hydraulic telegraph, and Semaphore line.  --Lambiam 06:37, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

GNP, GNP per Capita and Proportion of People Living in Cities

What were the GNP, GNP per capita and proportion of people living in cities of the United States, Great Britain, France and Australia in 1900, 1925 and 1950?

What were the countries with the highest GNP, GNP per capita and proportion of people living in cities in the world in 1900, 1925 and 1950? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.7.166.181 (talk) 08:08, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

This should at least provide historical GDP data for the UK and the USA. Fribbler (talk) 23:13, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Automobile/Consumerism

Is the idea behind embracing the automobile, in the way that I think America and Germany (any possibly man other countries did) to make people consumers of petrol and therefore make them work to pay for it (and therefore productive)? Is all this consumerism just to keep people working? And what is the point in this? So people at the top of the capitalist food-chain can live more comfortably or to make us progress as a human race? And progress towards what? What are the ultimate goals of Western governments? World domination? Utopia? What's going on? ----Seans Potato Business 14:45, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

In America the idea was, I think, to make people consumers of gasoline and of cars so that the oil companies and General Motors would make more profit. See Great American Streetcar Scandal. Some economists think that consumerism and planned obsolescence in general are necessary elements of any healthy economic system. I'm not sure Western governments have "ultimate goals"; most politicians have a horizon that does not reach much further than the next elections – and even that may be too generous.  --Lambiam 21:49, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

What's going on is that the United States is a big place. Outside of major cities, the public transport system is not well developed and there's really not been a big push to develop it. People like having control over their travel, and owning a car is the most direct way to do so. While I'm sure there was plenty of marketing involved, the sheer freedom to hop in the car and go where you want when you want has a strong appeal to many Americans. That aside, I think Lambiam summed up what's going on with Western governments. There's no "ultimate goal," really. Most politicians are focused on providing jobs and money to their constituents, which results in the politician getting reelected. And their constituents are focused on paying the bills and improving their status in life. — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 02:17, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Car rental peak dates

I'm doing some research and trying to find some sort of report on the internet of the car rental peak seasons, specifically in Miami. IS there anyplace on the website I can find this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.169.13.53 (talk) 18:31, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Here's something you could maybe use [13]. I know it isn't Miami, but I'd say research on this topic is slim pickings. Fribbler (talk) 23:09, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Addressing an Assyrian bishop?

How does one address an Assyrian bishop with the proper terms of respect or gestures expected? What is the general protocol?--Sonjaaa (talk) 20:43, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I think "Your Grace" is an appropriate form of address. I don't know if kissing the ring is customary, but in any case I think that is only appropriate for people who believe that His Grace is standing in the apostolic succession and ascribe ecclesiastical authority to him because of that.  --Lambiam 21:33, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Austria?

I was watching the Euro 2008 match between Austria and Croatia earlier on (my opinion on the match? Austria were robbed :-0) but I wondered...why do Austria use the Engish(?) version of their name so much? There were ads on the sidelines advertising "Austria Telekom" and I noticed that there national abbreviation is .at ? Fribbler (talk) 23:24, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

As the proper name is Österreich and starts with än Ümläut, it woüld be awkward if the cöde was öe. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 23:51, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I guess that makes sense for the country code. But why the other uses such as Austrian Airlines? Fribbler (talk) 23:54, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Lots of countries use English names for their airlines. In Austria's case, I think "Austria" is also the Latin form of the country's name, so it's probably been around for a lot longer than the prominence of the English language, Felix Austria and so on. -- Arwel (talk) 00:27, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

I suspected a Latin basis for it. But I wasn't sure. Fribbler (talk) 00:30, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Austria is the latin name. See here:

Bella gerant alii, tu felix Austria nube.

Nam quae Mars aliis, dat tibi diva Venus.

Similar how Switzerland often uses Helvetia.--Tresckow (talk) 00:28, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

There is, in fact, an airline company named Helvetic Airways, but the big one is Swiss, formerly Swissair (1931 - 2002). In addition to Austrian Airlines, Austria also has Austrian Arrows, Austrojet, and LTU Austria, as well as InterSky, Robin Hood Aviation, Teamline Air, Tyrolean Jet Services, and Welcome Air — the only German words occurring in all these names were hidden in the initials "LTU"! I agree with Arwel, and the language of the airline industry has been English for quite a while.

Anglicisms have been gradually asserting themselves in other places in business and advertisement lingo too. Since their unraveling and privatization in the 1990s the telecommunications industry have become anglophone: The Post und Telegraphenverwaltung became Post und Telekom Austria, later split off into Telekom Austria, Mobilkom Austria, and (now they use German, for good old mail and banking!) the Österreichische Post AG. (Around the same time, the PTT was anglified into Swisscom). See also Denglisch#Advertising_language. Two of the intended associations with English and Denglish are progress and international appeal. Another example are stock market indices Austrian Traded Index and Swiss Market Index. Germany is a bit more German, with Deutsche Telekom, Deutsche Lufthansa AG and Deutscher Aktien IndeX 30. ---Sluzzelin talk 01:31, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

In North America, Deutscher Aktien IndeX 30 is called "Dax", which is readily pronounced in English and yet cannot be confused with any other word. Thus, there seems to be no "need" (if I may be allowed an anglophone bias to slip through) to change the time-honoured full German name. ៛ Bielle (talk) 03:58, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

About Apostasy in Islam (is/maybe one misconception in Islam)?

I am a Sunni Muslim I am not happy about how Islam treats Kafirs. If Muslims convert in Islamic country, they receive capital punishment. It's a human rights violation. It's also a misconception. It a violation of Universal Declaration of Human Rights. The word "Apostasy" is offensive to me. It not freedom of religion. Why Islam has this problem and is criticized for it? Note: I am not asking for legal advice and/or a poll. I just want simple answers. Jet (talk) 23:27, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Our article on "Freedom of Religion" has a bit on it. As with all religions, it's subjective. For example Christianity forbids false gods, which could be seen as a dictat regarding apostacy. But it is rarely acted on (though many would say it is acted on in terms of atheists in the USA). Fribbler (talk) 23:36, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

It took Christian Europe hundreds of years to get over fear of conversion and stop killing people. People just have to wisen up and realize that religions that force themselves on people are only hurting themselves. Religion has to be in people's hearts if it's going to do any good. People forced into a religion will not respect it as much as people who freely choose it and recognize what they have. Wrad (talk) 23:39, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Countries (and groups) that punish conversion with death are criticised for it, although not as much as if it happened in the West for all the reasons that other human rights violations are less criticized - trade, interference in internal affairs and the sheer uselessness of criticizing a country if it doesn't want to listen. DJ Clayworth (talk) 16:44, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

June 9

Battle of Toulouse, 1814

Does anyone know when the first news of the Battle of Toulouse reached London? The battle took place on 10 April, and Wellington's dispatches (written on the 12th) are published in the London Gazette on Sat 26 April (the dispatches having arrived the previous day). But was this the first news of the engagement to be printed, or had there been rumours/other news of a battle prior to the offical detailed dispatches arriving?

As a comparison, news of the allied army's entry into Paris 30 March reached London on 5 April, and news of Napoleon's 6th April abdication was printed in the Gazette on the 9th April. News of Napoleon's abdication reached Wellington in Toulouse on 12 April. Thanks in advance to anyone able to answer this rather specific request! Gwinva (talk) 02:14, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

You can search the Times online from 1785 (so excited to discover this :) – thanks!) – anyway, probably best you do the search, as you would know better than I which keywords to try, including possible spellings of Toulouse. But I do see a reference on April 22, with possibly another on the 18th. NB: you have to be registered to read more than a few lines. WikiJedits (talk) 13:23, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Organic food processing

I am a food manufacturer, making Indian sauces and curry paste. I would like to find out what percentage of food additives e.g citric acid, gum are permitted toin manufacturing organic sauces. e.g if i manufacture garlic paste, add water , what percentage of food acid am i able to add to that. Posted on behalf of 58.178.34.2 (talk · contribs) Gimme danger (talk) 03:14, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Where are you wanting to sell your products? Different countries have different rules. ៛ Bielle (talk) 03:51, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Building the Alaska Highway

I can't find any article which contained information about the US Govt separating African-Americans road builders from the native peoples of Alaska when clearing to build the Alaska Highway. They were afraid that they could "produce hideous children" or something of that nature. I either read about it or saw a documentary on the Discovery Channel. The reason why I ask this, is that I happen to know a girl who is exactly half Aleut and half African-American and she is the most beautiful woman I ever seen. I wanted to reference that fact to her but couldn't find it on the net. --Vincebosma (talk) 14:25, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

How exactly were you planning to phrase this to her? You certainly seem to mean well, but it might come across as a bit patronising. Also, the mention of her race(s) may be perceived as insulting, or even shallow. Snorgle (talk) 15:24, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

...because I am an Aleut, too. Please no opinions, I just need to know where I can find this information...--Vincebosma (talk) 15:36, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

This article discusses the role of black troops in building the highway, including regulations banning contact between them and the local population. On page 8 of the article is a quote from a white officer (son of a Confederate general) advocating a ban on such contact for fear that it would produce "an astonishing objectionable race of mongrels". Marco polo (talk) 17:37, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Marco Polo, Thanks! --Vincebosma (talk) 17:57, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Economists vs. Sociologists

What are the principal differences in opinion pr perspective between the practitioners of economy and the specialists of sociology ? 69.157.240.225 (talk) 14:31, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

In a way economists are just sociologists who use some (questionable) assumptions on human behaviour in their analysis, see Neoclassical economics#Overview. User:Krator (t c) 15:41, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

The name of a cognitive bias effect: more informed people are more aware of the limits of their knowledge.

There is a cognitive bias effect which states that ignorant people will claim that they know more, while more informed people are more willing to admit that they don't know much. I'm trying to find out more about this. I'm sure it has a name, and that I've read an article about it on Wikipedia. However, my searches fail me. Help? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.70.239.247 (talk) 15:23, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Dunning-Kruger effect. --Sean 15:58, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Hand-hammered dish

While working in a church archive, my supervisors and I came across the dish pictured to the right (which I'm using to illustrate basic silversmithing) in a set of church dishes; we're guessing that it was used for baptism. It was from a church in Kiowa County, Oklahoma, but the church was maintained as a mission by other churches from throughout the United States. If you look at the bottom, you can see a small inscription:

• At the top, there's what appears to be a side view of a snare drum, with "T&T" above it
• Below and to the side of the bottom of the drum are, on each side, small shapes: the right has a "P" in it, and the left is worn enough that no letter is visible
• Well below the drum are the following numbers (with significant gaps between each one): 7 0 5 — 6 6
• Finally, just below the numbers are the words HAND HAMMER

I've given all we know about it; any ideas as to who made it, date, place, etc.? Nyttend backup (talk) 15:44, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

I only found that "T&T" could stand for "Thropp & Taylor" [14], silversmiths in Birmingham early 19th century, mentioned in some books on old silver listed here. (When I first read T&T in connection with the drum, I thought of steel drums makers from Trinidad & Tobago :) ---Sluzzelin talk 19:46, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Black population in Arab World

Which Arab nations have black population due to the history of slavery? I know that Mauritania, Djibouti, Sudan, Egypt and Morocco have black population because I have seen them in history books (e.g. Anwar Al-Sadat of Egypt) and in media (e.g. people in Morocco), but what about Algeria, Tunisia and Libya? Do they have black population? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.30.202.22 (talk) 17:51, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

The black population in Mauritania, Djibouti and Sudan is not due to the history of slavery. It is because subsaharan Africa is where (most) black people ultimately come from. Algebraist 22:19, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Yeah. Arabian countries don't have a history of Black slavery like America. They treated them like real people. Imagine that. Wrad (talk) 22:37, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Well..... a bit more complicated. Fribbler (talk) 22:42, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Of course but the black population isn't there because of slavery. They're there because they've always been there. Wrad (talk) 23:22, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

There has been some migration to Libya by people from south of the Sahara for economic reasons, since Libya, with its oil exports, is more prosperous than countries to its south. I don't know whether there has been much migration to Algeria or Tunisia from the south. However, all of the countries of North Africa, including Egypt, are after all African countries. There has been migration back and forth across the Sahara for thousands of years, dating back to a time when the Sahara was not yet a desert and its inhabitants moved both south and north as it dried up. Some Egyptians may look "black" to Europeans, but most Egyptians simply fall somewhere on the phenotypic spectrum between Europeans and East Africans. Marco polo (talk) 01:51, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

No, no I mean UAE and Saudi Arabia have black population, would you mind explaining that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.64.128.27 (talk) 02:06, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

European facial appearances

What are the natural hair colours and eye colours among the Russian people? both men and women. what about Italians, Frenchs, Spaniards, Portugueses, Germans, Dutches and Greeks? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.30.202.22 (talk) 17:53, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

I haven't been to Russia, Greece or Portugal, but all the other countries have all the hair colours and eye colours known to human kind. They are all, after all, open to immigration. I've known blue-eyed Italians, green-eyed Russians, blonde Spaniards and black-haired, brown-eyed Dutch. In general, the further north one goes in Europe the greater the preponderance of fair skin and light eyes, until you get to the arctic peoples who are also, possibly Russian, for example, and their skins tend to the copper in colour with dark eyes. Perhaps, if you would tell us where you are going with this, we might be of more assistance. ៛ Bielle (talk) 18:08, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

The article on eye color has a "Light Eyes Map" of Europe, and the article on human hair color features a "Light hair coloration map" of Europe. Bielle is right of course, and no map will tell you the "natural" hair colors of the countries you mentioned, but you can see a snapshot of the statistical spread across Europe at the time the data were collected (quite a while ago in Carleton S. Coon's case, a bit more recent in Peter Frost's collection). ---Sluzzelin talk 18:31, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Arab Sunni School of Thoughts

Which Arab nations in the Middle East (excluding Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia, Libya and Egypt) follow Hanbali, Hanafi and Maliki? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.30.202.22 (talk) 17:54, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Pashtun provinces and districts

I know that out of 34, 11 provinces are pashtun, but what is the total number of districts together? I still think that it is 125 districts together in 11 provinces. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.30.202.22 (talk) 18:21, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Provinces and districts of where? -- SGBailey (talk) 22:02, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Afghanistan, I believe. Algebraist 22:14, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Since Afghanistan has the right no. of provinces (and Pakistan doesn't), to partially answer your question, Provinces of Afghanistan has a nice table of provinces, their (official?) languages, and the no. of districts. Nine list Pashto only, for a total of 107 districts. I have no idea which other two provinces are considered Pashtun. Clarityfiend (talk) 01:38, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Or Pakistan.--Goon Noot (talk) 23:41, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Population of Detroit

In the 2000 census, the population of Detroit was determined to be 951,270. The Wikipedia article on Detroit lists the (I'm assuming official) 2006 population estimate, which is 918,849. I distinctly recall an earlier estimate from 2005 that around 886,000 persons lived in the city of Detroit. The article on Detroit used to display this estimate. In fact, I've seen many estimates that were lower than 886,000.

Does this mean that the population of Detroit actually increased between 2005 and 2006 (or for any amount of time in the 2000s), or does it mean that the previous estimates were wrong and Detroit was actually losing residents slower than they had estimated? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.227.1.59 (talk) 18:35, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

The latter. The population was declining, but perhaps not as fast as the Census Bureau had estimated. The Census Bureau revised its estimate upward in response to challenges by the Detroit city government and local civic groups. See this article. Marco polo (talk) 20:41, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Inflation in Canada

I'm looking for a market-based mid-to-long-term inflation indicator for Canada.

Something like the TIPS spread in the US (the spread between TIPS and regular treasuries of the same maturity)

Are there any CPI-indexed securities in Canada that are liquid enough to provide this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by NByz (talk • contribs) 19:50, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

You can probably use the spread between Real Return Bonds and Canadian Treasuries. Go to this page from the Bank of Canada website. The yields on the RRBs are at the bottom but I couldn't figure out the maturities. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 20:15, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Zain.

I found that the Bank of Canada issues inflation-indexed fixed-income securities too, just like the US TIPS.

They are called RRB (real return bonds) and are indexed to the ‘Canada All-Items CPI’.

Quotes can be found at the bottom of this page (click the “real returns” tab), and compared to the “Canada” bonds in the same little box.

The process would be:

1) Choosing the effective maturity date that you’re interested in (looks like they have 2021, 2026, 2031 and 2036) 2) Subtracting the Yield to Maturity of the un-indexed bond from the YTM of the indexed bond (I assumed they would have the same ‘credit rating’ or default risk etc.)

It looks like this particular page doesn’t have a regular Canada bonds for 2026, 31, 36 etc. So in this example I used the closest years, aways within 2 (which is fine, because anyone who can predict the difference between what’s going to happen in 2029 and 2031 deserves a nobel prize in something)

So the results are:

Year Implied Inflation (annually) 2021 2.51 2026 2.52 2031 2.58 2036 2.55

NByz (talk) 20:19, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Don't you mean: subtract the YTM of the indexed from the YTM of the un-indexed? Zain Ebrahim (talk) 20:28, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Theme of novels

I have about one year sometime in August to do a dissertation on three novels with a similar theme. I'd quite like to do something about the theme of violence in North American society. So I have American Psycho, but am rather unsure about other novels. Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks, 86.154.193.187 (talk) 20:50, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Blood Meridian. Fight Club. --D. Monack | talk 00:28, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

June 10

shi'a muslim in Pakistan

Which major cities in Pakistan have shi'a muslim population? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.64.128.27 (talk) 01:58, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Omni-Benevolent origins

What is the source of the belief in an "all good" omni-benevolent God in Christianity?

I have already looked for this on wikipedia, as per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnibenevolence#Religious_perspectives

However, I find the two proofs for omni-benevolence lacking. I have googled this as well, but to no avail.

Perhaps you could further extrapolate and explain the already existing entry that I cited, or perhaps you are better at googling than I am.

Whatever your method is, I thank you for your time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Steelersfan7roe (talk • contribs) 02:10, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

What is the cheapest camera you could use for an independent film?

Like In the soup or Π (film). GoingOnTracks (talk) 02:20, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Senator with missing fingers

Which recently-elected US Senator is missing fingers, or has a serious hand injury. I was convinced it was Jim Webb, but it looks to me like he has all ten, so I must be confused. Thanks!