User talk:In ictu oculi

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		The Original Barnstar
		For going above and beyond the call of duty with citations in the Book of Enoch article. Ian.thomson (talk) 19:46, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

DNB

Hello - I came across your addition to Joseph Mede, and was led to look at your recent article creations. I can see you're aware of the Dictionary of National Biography as a source; but you might not have noticed that related pages link to several of your articles (called "DNB Epitome"). It's a long story, but what it means is that text from the DNB is being made available (at Wikisource), to provide supporting references that are online, and also as raw material for articles. I'm going to bed now, but I'll look again tomorrow at what can be done. Charles Matthews (talk) 23:03, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Thank you, this could be enormously helpful. I had no idea this was becoming available. In ictu oculi (talk) 02:25, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

I've made general comments on my own talk page. What I have done just now is to add DNB citations to William Ashdowne, Hugh Farmer, and Arthur Ashley Sykes. Don't hesitate to mention others for whom you want to create articles. The DNB text is public domain, so articles here can be created starting from the old DNB text. This requires only the addition of the template {{DNB}} at the end for attribution. Charles Matthews (talk) 10:20, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

You've been busy! If you check your watchlist you should see various edits I have made to articles you have created. Some are things that come up every time (subject in bold in the topic sentence, birth and death categories, defaultsort to ensure names are sorted by surname in categories). Keep up the good work: you are clearly exploring areas not yet well documented here, and there are numerous relevant DNB articles I can post to support all this (the DNB is good on hard facts, not on interpretation, so what is there is complementary). Charles Matthews (talk) 11:45, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Got your message = (I'm of the old-fashioned school, believing that generally talk threads can stay on one discussion page.) so *here*, I'm still learning how to use the talk side of Wikipedia. I'm a bit of bumbler with computers in total. Your DNB sourced additions to what were little more than stubs of what I'd done without access to DNB are spectacularly, and embarrassingly, complete. Is there a search function on the DNB epitome that allows to pick out key words like town of birth? Wikipedia:WikiProject_Missing_encyclopedic_articles/DNB_Epitome Many thanks again. I doubt I can keep up this Christmas/New Year induced pace of busyness, but will try and follow the (subject in bold in the topic sentence, birth and death categories, defaultsort to ensure names are sorted by surname in categories).Best regards. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:29, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Sorry for being dense. If I'm reading the wikisource material correctly some DNB is on Wikisource, like Hugh Farmer, but when I change the name to pick up wikisource material from Epitome entry e.g. ^ Anne Evans (1820-1870), poet and musical composer; daughter of Arthur Benoni Evans. (e.g. say I want to create an article on Anne Evans if I can find the wikisource)..nothing comes up. Is this because wikisource is incomplete, or because I'm doing something wrong? If the latter could you please point/explain on your own page so that other learners can benefit. Thanks! In ictu oculi (talk) 01:36, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Points in some sort of order (you are in no way being dense, by the way ... Wikipedia work has become rather complicated, in order to get it all done).

• To search the DNB epitome here, the best way is to use a search engine, say Google. If you search on Google like this:

site:en.wikipedia.org Cambridge DNB

you get a custom Google search that firstly restricts to the English Wikipedia, then looks for pages with Cambridge and DNB. Putting in DNB will mostly restrict the search to Epitome pages, but of course there can be other hits. That search would be quite long, but with say Kidderminster instead of Cambridge, I find it starts off with 15 Epitome hits.

• Everything Wikipedia is always 'work in progress'. For example in the search I have just described you'll see some of User:Magnus Manske's subpages too. You can disregard them, because they were a previous state of the Epitome pages. The Epitome pages still need much proofreading, so there is no guarantee that "Kidderminster" is properly spelled there in a given instance. (The Epitome is available as a big download also.)
• Over at Wikisource, we have certainly not completed the work: over 2000 biographies have been posted there, but that's out of a total of around 27,000. That was why I was suggesting that you mentioned any of particular interest. I spend time daily posting more, and while I have lists to work down of articles needed to reference Wikipedia articles, I might as well produce some that promote new work here.
• There is nothing particularly skilful in what I have done in expanding articles of yours: just copy, paste and copy edit somewhat. It's routine, in other words. I regard it as supporting the expertise of another who clearly has more background.

I'll go and do something about Evans, Anne now. NB that the Epitome will list often people such as this lady, who only gets a short subarticle (she's in s:Evans, Arthur Benoni (DNB00)). What the text reads there is "Anne Evans, born 1820, died 1870, wrote poems and music, which in 1880 were edited and published with a memorial preface by Anne Thackeray Ritchie." The updated ODNB, which is copyright, says a little more. Charles Matthews (talk) 12:08, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for looking on Anne Evans, it was an example so I could try myself, but thanks for doing it and a shame no more on her. I've tried the search as you say - throws up some useful local history and Unitarian leads. I hope you will be able to recycle some of what you have just taught me on a help page for other casual DNB newbies. Many thanks again. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:33, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

By all means. The page on Evans the father is now there, turned out to be one I needed to do anyway, and took about ten minutes in all, the hardest part being some mental arithmetic to calculate the page number from a reference book. It is some justification of all the apparatus that it can work smoothly on occasion. Charles Matthews (talk) 12:42, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

This has all led quite a long way: see list of dissenting academies, and additions by User:BrainyBabe (who has some interest in Unitarian history), as we try to get this area more organised. Charles Matthews (talk) 12:33, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Something more

In John Simpson (Unitarian), there was a reference "Rutt, I, i, p.215". Having gone further into this area, I can hazard a guess that this was John Towill Rutt's Life of Joseph Priestley? Speaking of being cryptic, I take it that your username is a learned wiki-joke. It sent me back to my Latin principal parts of irregular verbs. Charles Matthews (talk) 11:47, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Ah, yes that's Rutt, J. not I. Vol.i http://www.josephpriestley.com/rutt.htm In Ictu Oculi is a sort of multiple in joke, not super learned... it's a quote from the Vulgate 1Co15 "in the twinkling of an eye", also a rather morbid Spanish baroque painting, and appears in motets by Guerrero and Busnois. My teeth were having a bad day when I chose it. And finally In ictu oculi is title of a CD - Música española del siglo XVII / Los Mvsicos de Sv Alteza... In ictu oculi (talk) 15:04, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Huelgas Ensemble

Salve! I wanted to put Huelgas Ensemble on my to-do-list and realized that you did the work! Thank you! Yesterday I translated Amsterdam Baroque Orchestra & Choir to German, in a rush before it appeared on main page. Do you happen to know a good translation of the term "Early music". "Alte Musik" seems not quite right? I wonder also if "Early music" still applies, - they perform Mozart as well, in Historically informed performance? - I will watch this page for an answer. Musical greetings --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:28, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Salve :) I also did Capilla Peñaflorida. I'm not sure I'm qualified to give an answer, seems to me "Early music" is used much the same as "Alte Musik" or "Musique ancienne" to mean music before Beethoven, even if it is not H.I.P. such as David Munrow and Nadia Boulanger, even though Murray Perahia's Bach is not "Alte Musik" or "Early music". Maybe ask on the H.I.P. page above? Cheers! In ictu oculi (talk) 08:22, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Gratias! I fixed some links for "your" ensembles and Paul Van Nevel, (found Josp instead of Josep on the way ...,) found Erik Van Nevel twice (with Currende), - do you know if that is a different person or a spelling error? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:29, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Same area of music, but not same :) Erik Van Nevel now has his own page, as far as I can find from Belgian press, they are not related.In ictu oculi (talk) 12:55, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Creating a page - the perfect response! I linked two of those as well. Now I wonder if some Paul should have been Erik? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:08, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Adding links (s. below): I created one more for Huelgas Ensemble, smile. I wonder if their way of performance in Schloss Johannisberg - in a circle in the middle of the audience, Paul van Nevel one of the circle, rotating, sometimes switching position - is typical for them or was special for that performance to be broadcast. The festival was surprised: half of the fixed benches in the church had to be loosened, turned, and all seat numbers adjusted. Imagine --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:18, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Yes it's a "thing" of his, depending on the piece performed: "Utopia triumphans", "circle". Don't imagine the stage hands like it :) In ictu oculi (talk) 13:59, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Then will you incorporate it in the article? - Btw I moved to Rheingau Musik Festival, feel invited, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:56, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

A tip

A change such as Christoph Sand → Christopher Sandius at Lelio Sozzini is not problematic, where it is to a more common variant. But if you create the redirect first (Sand redirecting to Sandius, here), before changing, you get the best of both worlds. And there can be links to the variant that are obscured, for example as [[Christoph Sand|Sand]], that could be hard to kind any other way than by having the redirect in place and noticing what links to it. Charles Matthews (talk) 08:23, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, yes I'll be more confident in creating redirects in for the future. Though in this case I checked and the German name seems quite rare. Cheers! In ictu oculi (talk) 11:26, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

More on early unitarians

I'm interested in getting another link to Gilbert Clerke, currently called an "orphan" (the people who do that like to have three incoming links, and while I disagree with their definition it doesn't do to fight over these things). I put one in from Daniel Zwicker; that relates to the controversial literature involving George Bull. I could put in a link by adding something to Bull's article; but I thought I'd ask you first, since I don't really have a perspective on the 1690s controversies (except that they were complex). Charles Matthews (talk) 12:29, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Yes, complex and still not accurately systematized 300 years later. Are the letters between Gilbert Clerke and Newton (numbers 312 to 316) (in possession of the Burndy Library, New York) significant enough to mention him as a correspondent in the Newton main article? (I'd expect not) btw - if you have access to DNB material on Thomas Firmin and William Manning (Unitarian) and also Dr Christopher Crell Jr. 1658- that can be accessed without too much labour? In ictu oculi (talk) 13:05, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

A clear deorphaning link would be in the last paragraph "influence" of Racovian Academy so I have added Gilbert Clerke there. In ictu oculi (talk)

I can do something about Firmin and Manning now - I'm always happy to add articles by Alexander Gordon, one of the better DNB writers. There is something in the ONB about Crell in the article about Richard Browne, his partner in medical practice, but that is apparently all. Charles Matthews (talk) 15:52, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Goodo, I didn't get the impression that Crell MD was of any significance as a doctor. :) In ictu oculi (talk) 16:02, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

I've created John Knowles (antitrinitarian) from the DNB - mentions Crell at Oxford in passing, might be of independent interest. Charles Matthews (talk) 11:40, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

That's a name I've seen several times before, but without any clear idea until now, thanks. The Christopher Crell is clearly C Crell Sr. not Jr. so I've created a redirect of the link to Krzysztof Crell-Spinowski (which is the naming of the Polish wikipedia page). In ictu oculi (talk) 13:30, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Autoreviewer

Hi In ictu oculi , after seeing one of your articles at newpage patrol, I was surprised to see that an editor who contributes such interesting well written articles hadn't already been approved as an wp:Autoreviewer. So I've taken the liberty of rectifying that. ϢereSpielChequers 08:52, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

WereSpielChequers, That's very kind of you. Thank you for the message too In ictu oculi (talk) 11:46, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Gloria

Thanks for adding to Huelgas Ensemble! Did you notice that I got Latin to the Main page on Sunday, birthday of Bach?

Thomas Hengelbrock

Thomas Hengelbrock collected some composers (s. recordings) who don't have an article yet. Your list looks like you are the one who might know something about them. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:06, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Hi, I added Francesco Bartolomeo Conti and Qigang Chen, don't know much about the others :) In ictu oculi (talk) 05:50, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Thank you! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:39, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Scipione Lacorcia

Salve! Dealing with Harry van der Kamp (one more link for the Huelgas Ensemble) I met a composer Scipione Lacorcia. You seem to know them all, how about this one? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:05, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Hi Gerda, yep one of Gesualdo's circle. I think what information there is in the booklet of the CD Kamp produced, I'll check it. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:41, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Done Scipione Lacorcia :) In ictu oculi (talk) 05:21, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Thank you! Fast again very helpful! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:18, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Igor Krutoy

Hi! It seems you recently created an unreferenced biography of a living person: Igor Krutoy. The community has decided that all new biographies of living persons must contain a reliable source that supports at least one statement made about the person in the article as per our verifiability policy. Please add references as soon as possible. Thanks! --LaraBot (talk) 00:10, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Okey dokey my furry little bot friend, Russian Who's Who added. :) In ictu oculi (talk) 01:41, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

You are now a Reviewer

Hello. Your account has been granted the "reviewer" userright, allowing you to review other users' edits on certain flagged pages. Pending changes, also known as flagged protection, will be commencing a two-month trial at approximately 23:00, 2010 June 15 (UTC).

Reviewers can review edits made by users who are not autoconfirmed to articles placed under flagged protection. Flagged protection is applied to only a small number of articles, similarly to how semi-protection is applied but in a more controlled way for the trial.

When reviewing, edits should be accepted if they are not obvious vandalism or BLP violations, and not clearly problematic in light of the reason given for protection (see Wikipedia:Reviewing process). More detailed documentation and guidelines can be found here.

If you do not want this userright, you may ask any administrator to remove it for you at any time. Courcelles (talk) 04:47, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for adding my father's name in Korean

… to Fred Lukoff. --Lukobe (talk) 04:39, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Kim Chae-guk

Your edit at William George Aston caught my attention. I expanded the context of your edit. After you review what I have added, I hope you will expand this section further. In addition, I wonder if you might be persuaded to review and improve a stub article about Kim Chae-guk. --Tenmei (talk) 17:18, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Gladly. The other books by various Kim Chae-guks are not related by the way, just the Russian one - with its 60 stories. In ictu oculi (talk) 18:01, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Ensemble Clément Janequin

I've got to alter my userpage now - since you created Ensemble Clément Janequin. I was bemoaning the lack of an article on them and you've gone and spoiled my moan. (I must get my one on Bragod done. Won't complain seriously if someone else does. Not that I'm hinting. I'd never do anything like that.) Peridon (talk) 23:03, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, first time to hear of Bragod and don't know anything about early Celtic music, but thanks for the tip! In ictu oculi (talk) 08:49, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

More DNB

You seem to be as busy as ever. The DNB effort has some extra structure now: Wikipedia:WikiProject Dictionary of National Biography. I suppose there might be something in it for you. Charles Matthews (talk) 20:09, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Which Alfonso Ferrabosco?

Salve, can you tell me which Alfonso Ferrabosco composed what the Huelgas Ensemble recorded in 2005: the elder (1543–1588), Italian composer mainly active in England, and instrumental in bringing the Italian madrigal there; eldest son of Domenico Ferrabosco, or the younger (1575–1628), English composer, son of Alfonso senior, also a singer, and performer on the lute and viol? - Did you know Fortunato Chelleri? - Still some red link composers on Kalevi Kiviniemi, smile, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:10, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Hi Gerda :) Il Padre Alfonso Ferrabosco the elder in discography clarified; Chelleri's uncle Francesco Maria Bazzani Maestro di Cappella del Duomo di Piacenza added In ictu oculi (talk) 02:00, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Gratias! (Think Bach, my topic of the week, where I found Alfonso.) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:54, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

One for you?

Is Gilbert Wakefield close enough to your interests? The article we have is not specially adequate, but the material in s:Wakefield, Gilbert (DNB00) is now available. That article is suggestive about his theological views; the ODNB is also a bit guarded. A case for expansion, anyway. Charles Matthews (talk) 18:16, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Hi Charles. Never heard of him, but now you've introduced will have a looksee, Cheers In ictu oculi (talk) 18:18, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Racovian New Testament

I'd like to thank you, on behalf of WP:WikiProject Poland, for writing Racovian New Testament. Have you considered nominating it to be on Wikipedia's front page as part of WP:Did you know? Please leave me a message if you have any questions. — Malik Shabazz ^Talk/_Stalk 03:47, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, don't know how to do that, but please feel free to go ahead - and thanks for your work on Project Poland. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:07, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Jakub Sienieński

First of all thank you for your great work, I am interested in Socinianism and I think your contributions are extremely important. I'd like to know something more on the italian origin of Sienieński family. I red the article on Jakub Sienieński where you write "His father Jan Sienieński (d.1599) was of Italian descent from Sienna", could you tell me the source of that sentence, so I can investigate further? Thank you.(Talk) 10:15, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

As it turns out it was either a variant spelling of "from Olesnica" (or an affectation from italianizing the Polish name of their home town?). Article corrected. At some point need to note which members of the family studied in Italy, and which merely studied with Italian emigres in Poland.In ictu oculi (talk) 00:07, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Annihilationism

Hi, I noticed "in the blink of an eye" that your contribution to Annihilationism was informative and productive. Nice work, Colin MacLaurin (talk) 00:25, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, very kind of you. It still needs some beefing up of 16th-19thC hist ref though. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:07, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Sir, could you do something about this guy? File:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/24.12.133.62 He adds things and deletes things without explanation.--Canstusdis (talk) 12:15, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Not sure what can be done, he seems to only edit that page. But asked him to please register and engage in discussion. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:18, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for addressing the issue--Canstusdis (talk) 07:24, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Please check out the message I sent to Mobile Snail concerning user:24.12.133.62 and his continuing unexplained deletions. Can we permanently ban this guy please? Thanks. --Canstusdis (talk) 20:12, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Jean de Pauly

Thanks for this - I've added a note to the talk page, though. Best,Dsp13 (talk) 22:07, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, expanded the reference from Polet's Patrimoine littéraire européen: anthologie en langue françaiseIn ictu oculi (talk) 23:52, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Brunckhorst

Salve, you seem to know all the composers personally, do you know more about a certain Arnold Matthias Brunckhorst than the German. I just sang a refreshing Weihnachtsgeschichte but am not sure about sources. I followed your steps, starting stubs on James Kent (composer) and Stefano Bernardi (expanded meanwhile). Would you know more, especially for Kent? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:51, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Die Weihnachtsgeschichte nach dem Evangelisten Lukas? That's a beautiful piece - I would love to sing that. I recall that there is some extra information in the booklet to Hans Bergmann recording, I will see if I can dig it out. Kent is just a name to me, until you mentioned him I just thought he was an organist. But I see he like Croft and Boyce also composed anthems. Did you perform one? In ictu oculi (talk) 03:09, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your additions! Brunckhorst? Yes, that one, arranged for choir and brass, the choir singing also the arias! Kent: I added the anthem we sang here to his article. We also performed it, for the fun of it, in the Völkerschlachtdenkmal in Leipzig: quite a reverberation in the Generalpausen. New red links in Gelobet seist du, Jesu Christ, I have no idea from the source if Lucas Osiander is the elder or younger in the Osiander family. I bet you know more. Btw, we just listened to the Maitrise of Notre Dame de Paris in Renaissance Polyphonie: for the last two pieces, both for 12 parts, one Deprez, one a French lady born 1974, they stood in a circle in the middle of the nave, like the Huelgas Ensemble. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:54, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for adding to Martin Luther! My modest chorale addition (s.a.) will be on DYK for Christmas, do you think you can change some red links to blue? (A few of them have a German article.)

Hi Gerda would do but unfortunately don't know much/anything about the red links in Gelobet seist du, Jesu Christ, BWV 91. Congratulations on having it for Dec25th. Very appropriate. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:48, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Lyman Jewett

userfy the page or email a copy to you. Feezo (Talk) 05:55, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

Automatically generated. Glitsched page creation, fixed. In ictu oculi (talk) 10:49, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

La Passione di Gesù Cristo

This is an automated message from CorenSearchBot. I have performed a web search with the contents of La Passione di Gesù Cristo, and it appears to include material copied directly from http://infinitybody.com/kolya/La-passione.html. CorenSearchBot (talk) 14:22, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Looks like a bot glitsch, the link appears to be from some sort of site that sucks up word searches and images, and does (in the sucked up material) briefly include a sentence mentioning the oratorio, but apart the link bears no resemblance to the content in the article. In ictu oculi (talk) 14:28, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Royal Basque Society of Friends of the Country

Thanks you for your corrections ;) If I can, and my horrible english lets me, I will try to extend it and create others. P.D: I think that the correct name of a member of the RSBAP is "friend" Museomed (talk) 10:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Table of terms

I've drawn up a table of terms at Talk:Christian mortalism#Table of terms regarding the intermediate state. Please take a look and comment. StAnselm (talk) 22:17, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Biblical categories

I notice you've created a bunch of categories such as "Dutch Biblical scholars". This is a great category to have, but please note that according to WP:MOSCAPS, "The adjective biblical should not be capitalized." StAnselm (talk) 06:04, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

This should have been added at Category talk:Biblical scholars. Yes, maybe so, but I followed existing examples for American Biblical scholars (18 P), British Biblical scholars, German Biblical scholars, Israeli Biblical scholars (4 P) Jewish Biblical scholars (1 C, 48 P). If you want to change them be my guest. In ictu oculi (talk) 02:00, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Chapel Royal

Hi, your entry for Spain has grown. Your article on the Flemish Chapel has been used as a source. I now have some questions. In the Flemish Chapel article it is not clear whether the group of people concerned lived in Spain or the Spanish Netherlands. Both, in different periods? If the Flemish Chapel ultimately merged with the main Spanish Chapel Royal, when/where did that occur? Should the Flemish Chapel article be renamed Spanish Royal Chapel with a separate section on the Flemish Chapel? None of this is important to me (meaning after leaving you this note I will do no more about it) but it would be good if you could run your knowledgeable eye over the amended Spain section under Chapel Royal. Many thanks. Eddaido (talk) 03:59, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

Burton H. Throckmorton Jr.

This is an automated message from CorenSearchBot. I have performed a web search with the contents of Burton H. Throckmorton Jr., and it appears to include material copied directly from http://www.bts.edu/newsandevents/news2009/throckmorton.htm. CorenSearchBot (talk) 02:45, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Actually there is a similarity, because the BTS edu and a few words in the article both source from an obituary in the Bangor Daily News. I will fix the similarity. In ictu oculi (talk) 02:48, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

The Triumphs of Oriana (1899)

This is an automated message from VWBot. I have performed a web search with the contents of The Triumphs of Oriana (1899), and it appears to include material copied directly from http://www.toccataclassics.com/cddetail.php?CN=TOCC0012. VWBot (talk) 03:54, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Hardly surprising that the bot would pick up the only recording of the 1899 collection. The libretto of which is given as a link. But the historical source used is Jeffrey Richards Imperialism and music: Britain, 1876-1953 2001 p359 In ictu oculi (talk) 04:04, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

John Williams (of Sayingpan)

I have deleted this, which you tagged db-r3. That left a deadlink from John Williams (disambiguation). It didn't seem to me that there was enough about JW of S in the renamed article to justify redirecting to that, so I have removed the entry from the John Williams DAB page, but I'm letting you know in case you want to restore it. Regards, JohnCD (talk) 18:14, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

ThanksIn ictu oculi (talk) 07:31, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

John Wesley Hanson

A tag has been placed on John Wesley Hanson Criteria for speedy deletion (talk) 12:52, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

• I am a person. Criteria for speedy deletion (talk) 13:04, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Article expanded.In ictu oculi (talk)

Thomas Whittemore

A tag has been placed on Thomas Whittemore (Universalist) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. Staffwaterboy ^{Critique Me} 03:37, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Article expanded.In ictu oculi (talk) 10:59, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Perfection

I do not have an objection to the move, but it would be good to expand it a little at some point. The only other item there that needs help is 3 fold office. Cheers. History2007 (talk) 09:00, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Gospel of Matthew

You have removed this link, Hebrew Gospel, from the second paragraph of the Gospel of Matthew#Composition intro several times without explanation. The inline citation clearly mentions the Hebrew Gospel, so this link should stay in the paragraph per WP:PRESERVE. The link will be once again returned to the article, and I ask that before you remove it again, please first discuss it on the Talk page of the article.  — Paine Ellsworth ( CLIMAX )  12:37, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

See talk. Explanation was given in line, the link is duplication / misnoma. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:00, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

We agreed not to edit for a time

Ictu, please respond at the Gospel of the Hebrews talk page immediately. Thank you. - Ret.Prof (talk) 00:24, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

I have done so. Please remove POV and OR content or provide modern academic citations or allow other (majority/mainstream) views.In ictu oculi (talk) 00:27, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

removal of Gesenius Hebrew dictionary links

Okay, looking for a better online dictionary. See Talk:Lilith In ictu oculi (talk) 05:03, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

I took a look

I took a quick look at the other three Jewish-Christian articles - man, what a mess. Frankly, I would avoid working on the Jewish-Christian Gospels article until the other three articles are stable. It was always intended to be a gateway article to topics related to the Jewish-Christian Gospels. Once the individual articles are up to encyclopedic quality, it should just be a matter of going back to the J-C Gospel article and writing up a brief synopsis for each one. Likewise, I would leave the GH aside for now, until the GN is a bit more stable. The two should be considered together because there is a disputed relationship between the two gospels.

I read through the GN article and I'm not convinced that Schneemelcher's references are the best way to go, even though I know that is your preference. I would set aside all references from the margin of Matthew attributed to the Judaicon for now, and come back to these later in the process, in this or a separate article. Despite some scholarly wishful thinking, there is no proof that GN = Judaicon. That is an unprovable assumption that should be introduced as such.

I would be inclined to start with quotations from Jerome that are "safe" - undisputed by several reliable secondary sources as being from the "Hebrew Gospel that the Nazoraeans used". If it were me, I would lay them out on your talk page or the article talk page by the primary source they came from and by the year Jerome published the letter or homily. This constitutes the "core" of the GN.

Next, I would layer in the quotations made by Jerome that are "disputed", i.e., some or all authors may attribute them to the GH. Again, I would lay them out by primary source and by year. What I suspect may be going on here is what I call "Jerome's criterion of theological embarrassment", which affected not only him but modern scholars/theologians. The criterion is simple, if the quotation is not controversial relative to Nicene Orthodoxy, it's GN, otherwise it's GH. These should be considered in a separate section that overlaps with the GH article.

Next, I would layer in quotations made by Church Fathers in the middle ages attributed explicitly to the "Gospel of the Nazoraeans" (something Jerome never did), as their own section. And finally, I would return to the marginal quotations from the Judaicon, which are also from the middle ages, either in this or a separate article.

Well, that's probably enough free advice for what it's worth. Good luck. I may be taking a Wiki-break for awhile (assuming I survive arbitration, otherwise it may be a considerably longer break). :0) Ovadyah (talk) 19:32, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

:) Thanks Ovadyah. My preference for using the standard edition is simply that, agree with it or not, it's the standard around which all SBS type works reference these texts, and that makes the articles user-friendly for any Wikipedians who use general texts. Also if not the Schneemelcher edition, I wonder what other edition would be used? I agree with you that J-G is a gateway. Ideally what would be good would be a user friendly "here's the standard view, the standard edition" 10%, and then the other 90% can be under any pref that happens along. Cheers!In ictu oculi (talk) 22:45, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

I took a look at the Jewish-Christian Gospels and what a mess. At least we are in agreement there. Also no consensus. Lets work together to get rid of the POV pushing. Cheers - 23:54, 20 March 2011 (UTC)Ret.Prof (talk)

? In ictu oculi (talk) 23:57, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Also > See Wikipedia:Canvassing Cheers - Ret.Prof (talk) 00:01, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Make Use of Discussion Sections.

Hello. You have been performing changes to the Article about the Holy Spirit.
Use the discussion section about the article here before attempting any further changes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.251.111.128 (talk) 16:22, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Anon user welcomed and encouraged to register.In ictu oculi (talk) 16:33, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

User. Use Discussion sections First! Do not change topics. Do not Attempt any further deletions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.251.111.128 (talk) 16:48, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Regarding edits

Hello. I appreciate your concern, and communicating your points to me. By the way, I think your intro for the Holy Spirit article was very good. There obviously was too much POV in the lead, and the article in general, to be honest. The POV pushers need to be careful.

But I'm a little confused. Because my edits were NOT "reverts" at all. But just simple modifications and just general edits and fixes of punctuation mostly. And I'm not sure about the "interrupts" thing. I simply saw unwarranted upper case letterings, etc, and fixed them. Also I elaborated on the Judaism Hebrew Scripture reference matter.Art and Muscle (talk) 05:42, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Yahweh (Canaanite deity)

No, it never did get AfD'd.

dab and I both took a block for disagreeing over what should redirect where (this section) and the next on my talk page), after which I didn't want to go anywhere near clashing with him if I could help it. Also, I wanted to wait to see how things would pan out at the Yahweh article -- whether there would be a discussion there, whether it would stabilise, etc. So I didn't go any further than just the initial shot across the bows on the talk page. Jheald (talk) 23:50, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Risto Savin

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A tag has been placed on Risto Savin requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hang on}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion, or "db", tag; if no such tag exists, then the page is no longer a speedy delete candidate and adding a hang-on tag is unnecessary), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. Takeo™ 16:02, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, In ictu oculi. You have new messages at Ovadyah's talk page.
Message added 16:15, 6 April 2011 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Thank you

I was delighted about the Hänssler and Festwochen addition, + Jacobs and Pressler. Meeting Pressler at the RMF last summer was like meeting legend, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:47, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Rheingau Musik Festival? I cannot believe you're going through the whole BWV adding Hänssler.. wow :O. I also did Carus-Verlag and Christophorus Records but less to say. In ictu oculi (talk) 21:47, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Holy Spirit

Hi, Someone reverted your changes, and I have asked them to hold off until you respond on Talk:Holy_Spirit_(Christianity)#Christian_Belief_section. So your comments will be appreciated. The IP does have some valid points, but I think your input would help. Thanks. History2007 (talk) 20:11, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

GAC article nomination instructions

Here are the nomination instructions: WP:GAC. Keep in mind that after you submit an article for nomination, a new page will be created (just like the one for peer review), and there will be a time period when reviewers can leave comments on what further improvements may be necessary to bring the article up to WP:GA quality. While anyone is free to leave a comment in theory, most of these editors are pros or semi-pros that know what they are doing. Once the comment period ends, the involved editors (which would be you as the nominator and any other editors that are willing to do the work) have a finite period of time to make the suggested improvements. Otherwise, the article will fail GAC. These are suggestions not commands, but I think best efforts should be made to take them seriously. Let me know if you have any questions. Cheers. Ovadyah (talk) 23:23, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Done.In ictu oculi (talk) 16:46, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

I see it popped up on the list, so we are good to go. There is quite a large backlog of articles to review, but only three on topics related to religion, so the wait may not be too long. Ovadyah (talk) 17:13, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Proposed AfD

Please note that John Carter, despite a complete lack of engagement on the matter, has raised an AfD on the demerged content / Ebionite Jewish Community, which is consequently being considered for deletion. Please feel free to offer comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ebionite Jewish Community (3rd nomination).-- cheers, Michael C. Price ^talk 19:50, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Gospel of Matthew: commentaries

A question: What would you name as the five most important recent commentaries on Matthew? PiCo (talk) 13:02, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Word, ICC (France on Matthew), Eerdmann's, Sacra Pagina (Harrington on Matthew), NICNT, Anchor, Blacks, NIGTC are all good modern reliable mainstream series.In ictu oculi (talk) 14:57, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Request for input

Jeremiah (Bulgarian priest)

Hi and thanks for starting the article! I'm currently adding some bits to it using Bulgarian sources. It seems that some authors do identify Jeremiah with Bogomil, but there are conflicting opinions in the various sources. Best, — Toдor Boжinov — 19:20, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for starting Bogomil as well. It would be even more difficult to write than Jeremiah, as there's basically no biographical info about Bogomil. Understandably because of his importance, there's a vast amount of theories. I'll see if I can properly expand it tomorrow. Best, — Toдor Boжinov — 19:47, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Ebionites

Please no Ebionites/James Tabor related material on this Talk Page, thanks :)

I've reverted your latest additions. Maccoby is not the only writer who, for example, holds that the Ebionites were faithful to Jesus's original message. Eisenman, Tabor, Schonfield and Butz spring to mind. -- cheers, Michael C. Price ^talk 17:11, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks...

... for your work on Ghetto Swingers and Martin Roman. The musical life in Theresienstadt is an interesting and sad part of music history. Regards. --Vejvančický (talk | contribs) 09:05, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, was interesting for me too to do those articles.

Hi, I can't find the date online and in my library. I'll try to find out more tomorrow. --Vejvančický (talk | contribs) 17:06, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

..I think there's a decent chance to find the date in the works Milan Kuna (Czech specialist on culture in Theresienstadt), his books are detailed and reliable. --Vejvančický (talk | contribs) 17:14, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

I have bad news for you, In ictu oculi. I searched through this book:

• Kuna, Milan (1990). Hudba na hranici života. Prague: Naše vojsko; Český svaz protifašistických bojovníků. ISBN 80-206-0069-8. {{cite book}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help) Template:Cs icon

(the most comprehensive source describing activities of Czech/Jewish musicians in Nazi prisons, as far as I know). Vogel is mentioned on several occasions, however, his life dates are missing. I'm sorry. Vejvančický (talk | contribs) 10:49, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Re Canonical Gospels

Sorry to be late in getting back to you. Yes, I'll definitely look over that. I've been busy and it may take a day or two. Regards.Nishidani (talk) 20:32, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Re: Barnstar

Hi! Thank you very much for the barnstar and your kind words. It's quite easy to correct typos with AWB; I just load the pages and let the machine do its job and then save the changes. You certainly don't need to feel embarrassed, everybody makes mistakes :-). --Michal Nebyla (talk) 09:09, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Unitarianism

See Talk:Unitarianism--Donbodo (talk) 16:35, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Categories

Koavf, thank you for your energies - but you need to speak to an Admin about Wikipedia category policy, I can't help here. Please don't leave more messages. Cheers.In ictu oculi (talk) 06:19, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

New article talk pages

Hi, I stumbled on a bunch of new stubs that you created for opera singers who died in the Holocaust. The bot which used to notify Wikiproject Opera of new articles has been out of commission since March and many articles are slipping under the radar. Could you do me a favour and add {{Opera}} to the talk page of any new opera-related articles you create? You don't have to assess them, in fact it's better to leave them unassessed so we'll know they're new and need looking at. Any new articles about classical composers in general need {{Composers}} on their talk page. All other classical music articles, e.g. musicians, compositions, orchestras, ensembles, etc. take {{Classical}}. Best. Voceditenore (talk) 14:20, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Categories for discussion nomination of Category:Opera singers who died in the Holocaust

Category:Opera singers who died in the Holocaust, which you created, has been nominated for discussion by User Harley Hudson (talk · contribs). If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. IZAK (talk) 08:29, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Making article changes that affect an ongoing mediation

If you are going to make major changes to the James vs. Paul section of the Ebionites article, you should join the mediation process. There's not much point in mediating a solution over disputed content when the entire content is being rewritten by outside editors. Ovadyah (talk) 14:37, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

I noticed you reworded the content we have been working on in mediation, rendering two months of laying out arguments and discussing them practically useless. Therefore, when the mediation ends and arbitration reconvenes, I'm going to request that you be added to the arbitration as an involved party. Ovadyah (talk) 15:06, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Category:Individual animals

As a user who participated in Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2011 May 12#Individual animals, you may be interested in a discussion related to this at Category talk:Individual animals#Recent Cfd moves. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 12:16, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Hermann Schramm

This bot needs fine tuning :) CorenSearchBot (talk) 07:54, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Angel Lailah

This is an automated message from CorenSearchBot. I have performed a web search with the contents of Angel Lailah, and it appears to include material copied directly from http://www.jbooks.com/interviews/index/IP_Schwartz_Lailah.htm.

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This time Corenbot is right.. this is spam I unwittingly moved out of Malakh to a new stub. I'll delete it.In ictu oculi (talk) 06:34, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Seckel Isaac Fraenkel or Frankel?

You've used one spelling for article title, one for text - don't forget to add a redirect from any alternative spellings to make sure that readers can find the article and to reduce the chance of a duplicate being created later. (I've done so now) Thanks. PamD (talk) 09:49, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Bible translations into Polish

Thanks for starting this article, it was on my to do list for a while. Please don't hesitate to nominate your work for front page exposure at T:TDYK; I've done so for this article. Please also consider including more inline references and images (you can find those on pl wikipedia for example). --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 19:35, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Bible translations into Polish

Hello! Your submission of Bible translations into Polish at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Qrsdogg (talk) 15:30, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Sefire treaty inscriptions

There already exists the article Sefire - I assume that these articles refer to the same inscriptions and could be merged. - Mike Rosoft (talk) 09:09, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Gospel of the Ebionites

The article Gospel of the Ebionites you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needed to be addressed. If these are fixed within seven days, the article will pass, otherwise it will fail. See Talk:Gospel of the Ebionites for things which need to be addressed. Pyrotec (talk) 10:46, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

The article passed GA. I thought you'd like to know. Cheers. Ovadyah (talk) 01:28, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Bible translations into Polish

The DYK project (nominate) 00:02, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Comment moved

I hope you don't mind, I think you entered a comment in the wrong section by accident. I moved it to the section above, immediately under the comment by Avi it was responding to. If I did this in error, please accept my apologies and revert. Jayjg ^(talk) 02:42, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Gladstone Porteous

Hi In ictu oculi. Congratulations on your work on the biography of Gladstone Porteous, a missionary whose life has fascinated me for years. If you hadn't begun this article, I would have eventually gotten around to it. Perhaps I may have some bits to add, so I look forward to hopefully collaborating with you. As you will see, my interests range from biographies of churchmen and clergy from the eighteenth century onwards, along with members of the Porteous family (I'll leave you to work out why), so this would seem quite appropriate! Regards, Bruce – Agendum (talk) 17:19, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

I am beginning to work through this, starting with the details (such as we have) of his family. I have a fair amount of other material which I will add gradually over the next few days. Best wishes, Bruce – Agendum (talk) 14:38, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of "Bible translations into Latin"

A page you created, Bible translations into Latin, has been tagged for deletion, as it meets one or more of the criteria for speedy deletion; specifically, it is very short and provides little or no context.

You are welcome to contribute content which complies with our content policies and any applicable inclusion guidelines. However, please do not simply re-create the page with the same content. You may also wish to read our introduction to editing and guide to writing your first article.

Thank you. N^oformation ^Talk 05:53, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, In ictu oculi. You have new messages at Ovadyah's talk page.
Message added 19:44, 9 June 2011 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Page protection... Not yet, sorry.

I'd keep putting on uw-unsourced warnings until he gets to a level 4 and report him, but the edits are spread out enough that that won't work... However, the editor is trying to improve the reference, and has gotten far enough that he does deserve some explanation. But, in trying to find the source he is using, I instead found this book which points out that the Yeshu Toledeth is of no use for serious research except for the history of antichristian polemics. Indeed, I can't seem to locate any texts which discuss Salome Alexandra's role in the Yeshu Toledot. Of the search result for "Salome Alexandra Yeshu Toledot", the first book mentions the Yeshu Toledot, the latter Salome Alexandra, but neither both. While I'm assuming good faith and assuming that Goldstein's "Jesus in the Jewish Tradition" does discuss this, it appears to be a now-rejected anomaly in scholarship. Ian.thomson (talk) 14:17, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Dear Ian, the book you need is Jesus in the Jewish Tradition by Morris Goldenstein. I have read a lot of Bruce's works and he is a great Christian scholar, but he is simply not familiar enough with the Jewish sources he attempts to handle to understand exactly what he is talking about. It may "appear to be now-rejected" based upon what you have read, but appearances can be deceiving. 81.103.121.144 (talk) 08:06, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Excuse me, now you are accusing me of vandalism? Where and how, please show me the EXACT edit you interpret as vandalism? 81.103.121.144 (talk) 13:06, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

See Talk:Notzrim In ictu oculi (talk) 13:07, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

And if anyone is guilty of fringe it is you.81.103.121.144 (talk) 13:08, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Van Voorst, Neusner etc are not fringe sources. As per Talk:Notzrim you need to present sources other than a medieval rabbinical document for your ideas. In ictu oculi (talk) 13:13, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Sorry about there not being more OR reverters in Notzrim. My guess would be that Lilith draws in mythology editors or religion editors or pop culture editors, where Notzrim really only draws in editors that qualify as both religion and history editors. I will add it to my watchlist, though. Looking over his changes, yeah, he's giving undue weight. I have found an online copy of the Talmudic tract in question, but the most we can do is mention that the section discusses a Yeshu-ha Notzri but that it is unclear if this is Jesus. Looking further, it appears the IP may be committing a copyright violation. Ian.thomson (talk) 15:19, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

ANI

I should point out that there's a relevant post on the ANI: Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Notzrim. Best, Meph^talk 14:43, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

If the ANI is stale, you could try providing a more complete description of the issues at WP:DISPUTE, otherwise I'm not sure what to suggest. Good luck, Meph^talk 01:02, 16 June 2011 (UTC).

Failing that, try WP:RFC. Meph^talk 11:45, 16 June 2011 (UTC).

Jewish Christian workgroup

We are facing here one of the most frequently encountered problems here in wikipedia. Kirill Lokshin, toward whose statue I metaphorically bow every day, is a very respected editor who said some time ago that the tendency around here is for work groups or WikiProjects to start with all sorts of sound and fury, valiantly starting the development of pretty much all the articles that they think should be included. Then, once the majority of the articles are better than stubs, the enthusiasm and activity starting fading. I have every reason to believe that the early Christian content in general pretty much follows this pattern.

There is a serious problem regarding early Christianity, one which another person I hold in deep respect, PastorDavid, pointed out some time ago. That is the generally poor state of development of most of the early Christian content. Unfortunately, given the disagreements between the Catholics and Orthodox, the Reformation churches, the Restorationist churches, and, actually, pretty much everybody on the planet today about this subject, there have, apparently, been very serious questions about what theories regarding these subjects should be discussed in articles, and to what extent in the articles. This also includes those individuals and academics who say Jesus may not have ever existed, and that the whole thing is some sort of really successful conspiracy theory.

So far as I can tell, and this is, clearly, just a personal opinion, the best way I can think to proceed regarding this matter is for some of the involved editors to find and locate some of the most highly regarded recent tertiary reference sources and see what they say about the subjects. At the very least, if they are regarded as themselves being basically neutral, I would think the majority of the content in our articles should probably reflect the compendium of information from the most recent and most highly regarded of these sources, with, maybe, some additional material regarding the less highly regarded "fringey" opinions and/or the opinions of individual groups who have their own specific opinions regarding some of these topics.

On some of these articles, like those about specific terms, this might not be enough, because there may not exist that many articles specifically about those terms to use as frameworks. Regarding the Notzrim, I am going to later today check over the usage of the term in the articles in the various databanks I have access to. If you want, I could forward to you, and maybe others, the material I find. It will be of course probably impossible for me to be able to prove that I have not maliciously and lazily overlooked some of the material I don't like, because it is impossible to prove a negative, but at least then those involved would have at least some basic idea as to at least some of the recent reliably sourced information on the subject.

Man, I do blather on, don't I? Sorry about the length here. John Carter (talk) 19:42, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Not at all, that all seems common sense. And as you say this is a subset of early Christianity articles generally. But for some reason "Jewish Christianity" (misnoma?) seems to attract a higher rate/noise of POV/OR than dusty "patristic Christianity." No one gets too excited over Clement of Rome, for example. Yet anywhere where Tabor/Messianics/Yahwehists/Essenes/Gnostics-Kabbala-Enoch/etc. are involved the POV/OR/noise racks up exponentially. And SBL level sources get outnumbered with blogs. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:33, 18 June 2011 (UTC)

Jewish Christians may well be a bit of a misnomer, and it has certainly been challenged in recent years in the scholarly literature. That probably should be discussed at fair length in that article. And, FWIW, as a strictly personal opinion, the Messianic Jews are a comparatively new "trend" in religion. Generally, when such newer groups get significant attention, splinter groups tend to form. Also, unfortunately, there is the fairly hard fact that the early history of Christianity (say the first hundred years or so) is, pretty much, not supported to any significant degree by any contemporary historical sources. Religiously minded people have tended to swarm around blank slates in general, and, regretably, early Christianity pretty much qualifies as a blank slate. John Carter (talk) 21:16, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Deuteronomist, Priestly source

I've been working on these 2 articles, Deuteronomist and Priestly source. Sort of a hobby, something to prevent me from doing something useful with my time, like learning the tuba or writing long letters to the Foreign Minister suggesting ways in which the world might be made a better place. I'd be right pleased if you could have a look and tell me where you think I've gone wrong. PiCo (talk) 07:20, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Re that article: if I were French I'd make some comment about being en train d'enculer les mouches. PiCo (talk) 04:55, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

Ou de couper des cheveux en quatre. But, there is more than a fly's bum's difference between the theory that Christianity originated in a 500BC Samaritan group (which later emigrated to India) or originated in 50sAD. In ictu oculi (talk) 05:06, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

That is indeed bizarre. But he has some solid-looking sources - which unfortunately I can't check up. But I did look up the Cambridge History of Judaism: The late Roman-Rabbinic period, where, around page 259, Steven Katz begins a mind-numbing discussion of the Rabbinic Response to Xianity. By the time he gets tom page 280 he's definitely tending to entertain, tentatively, even, one might say, with the turgid mental to-ings and fro-ings of one who has, as it were, spent too many hours reading the late James, the notion, if one may so put it, that the original Birkat h-minim never mentioned the notzrim. Which leaves us little the wiser as to where the term actually did come from, or what it meant, or where it went after being thrown out of the party. Lady Drower, of course, says that "It might be in Galilee that our original Nasoraeans are to be sought and Epiphanius may be stating a truth when he says that there were ... It is certain that Simon the Magian was never a Nasoraean!" (emphasis added in the form of an exclamation mark). Lady D appears also to have drunk at Henry's well, with all those mays and mights, and I'm glad she's certain of Simon. A certain Rudolf Macúch Lovely name, Lawrence Durrell could have used it) tells us that "there was little need in Nasoraean literature for such common notions as "beggar", "flea" etc". I'm much taken by a language that knows neither beggars nor fleas - the sign of a happy people. But, apart from the news that they itch not, neither do they scratch, I still don't know much about the Notzrim. PiCo (talk) 00:16, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Hi PiCo, the academic sources are sources I added, the IP just "adopts" them and rewrites content before the ref, which he/she presumably can't access(?). I think Lady Drower was the only one there before, but the IP hasn't particularly cited that. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:29, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

My problem really is that I have no idea what the terms mean. Have a look at this, around p.50. But the general impression I get is that the word notzrim can't be definitely identified in the Late Classical writings. PiCo (talk) 00:40, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I've read Teppler and cited the book several times in the article, it seems to be one of the most objective/up to date sources. No notzrim can't be identified beyond the identifications given in sources such as Teppler and the modern dictionaries. Which is why no OR/legends beyond those refs should be in the article.In ictu oculi (talk) 00:49, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

What's this about watchers? I understood the Watchers were quasi-divine figures from late Hellenistic Jewish literature - either Jubilees or Enoch (Enoch I think) - whose job was to watch, but from heaven, not Earth. Definitelt not Christians, nor any other humans. PiCo (talk) 01:01, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Just coincidence I think. The Hebrew word for "watchers" in Daniel which is the origin of the angelic watchers in Dead Sea Scrolls, and the Hebrew word for "watch-tower-keepers" in Jeremiah which the IP (following a medieval rabbinical tractate) is trying to connect with pre-Christian "Nazarenes" are two unrelated Hebrew terms. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:12, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Rabbinic tractates don't qualify as reliable sources - tho there might be a problem convincing the IP of that. Might be able to include the rabbis as a curiousity. PiCo (talk) 01:22, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

The academic sources I added do mention those sources, they have to as that's the primary text territory, unfortunately (from the IP's view) the same academic sources also qualify them as "late" "dependent on the Talmud" OWTTE etc. Which doesn't help the origin mythology of the Knanaya people I guess, if that's what's behind these reverts. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:26, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

That article is weird beyond redemption. Wikipedia unfortunately gives ample space for weirdness, and there a limit to what can be done to counter it. I prefer to tackle the big ones, like the main books of the Hebrew Bible - if I can introduce reality there I may achieve something worthwhile. (Tho always bearing in mind that everything in wiki is writ in water - does anyone read Keats any more?) PiCo (talk) 01:57, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

Knanaya article is weird? Yes, but is at least sourced to one of their church's published texts. And yes wiki is writ in water, but responsible sourced edits do at least stay on the surface of that water in mainstream articles, which Deuteronomist is, and anything Messianic isn't. :( In ictu oculi (talk) 03:07, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

I'd never heard of Lady Drower before - quite a lady. And what a period that was - she could have (no doubt did) hobnob with Gertrude Bell and Freya Stark (who once turned down a marriage proposal from a millionaire without being aware that he'd made it - he was as obscure as Henry James) and Agatha Christie and that mad Englishman who created the Jordanian army. God I was born in the wrong century, 1900 was the right year, provided you survived that bumpy bit in your early 20s. I went looking for Gertrude Bell's house in Baghdad - it's still there, miracle of miracles. And the contents of the British Council library were for sale on the pavement in Mutannabi Street - a Lebanese friend (who insists that the Lebanese are Phoenicians, not Arabs) got a complete set of Burton's Arabian Nights (first subscribers' edition) for $200. And a Brit friend found a strange little brass box with an inscription identifying it as Bonny Prince Charlie's cash-box - presumably genuine, since why would anyone bother to fake such a strange relic, but how did it get to Iraq? And myself did find a whole antique shop full or curiosities - a wooden fan-contraption with a handle at the far end (you got your fan-wallah to stand behind =turning the handle while you, the sahib, enjoyed the breeze and a post-prandial), and a silver tray inscribed with a Persian hunting scene, and a horse-hair fly-whisk with a solid silver handle, and the hood-ornament from a Rolls Royce. I bought nothing, being too afraid of Saddam's ability to sniff me out (they were all regarded as National Heritage). Ah timidity, you've been the death of me!PiCo (talk) 02:57, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Frederick Peake or T. E. Lawrence? Yep, certainly an era. I guess Notzrim AfD/merge stuff can be on the Talk page there? In ictu oculi (talk) 03:13, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Is it possible to be nostalgic for a time before one was born? Possible yes, sensible no. No doubt someday someone will look back and murmur how wonderful it must have been to have lived through those wonderful years of the early 2000s. To be at the party and miss the fireworks, how tragic.

Yes, the Talk page on the article seems best.

Not TE Lawrence, he only ever visited Iraq once, and he didn't get off the boat. Dahoum was dead and he saw no point in living. PiCo (talk) 03:30, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Re:Notzrim

All I can say is, you are a very patient person.Editor2020 (talk) 22:39, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

It would be possible to report to ANI, leave a note asking for input on the religion topics noticeboard, or maybe ask for a third opinion at Wikipedia:Third opinion about the conduct of the IP. Those would probably be the best way to go to get multiple independent and neutral editors involved. Also, it might make sense to file a request for comment as per WP:RFC to generate a wider discussion. John Carter (talk) 16:16, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Where is this consideration taking place? PiCo (talk) 01:02, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

At this point I believe that the article would likely be deleted were it considered for deletion as per AFD. I myself have found no particularly substantive discussion of the Notzrim in any sources which would lead me to think otherwise. However, I acknowledge that you who have spent more time with the subject probably know better, and would welcome your opinions on the matter. John Carter (talk) 18:14, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

At one point I thought it worth keeping, but I am going with Jayjg's original REDIRECT and have proposed an AfD/merge to Nazarene (title) on Talk:Notzrim, what's the next step? In ictu oculi (talk) 23:27, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

You know that if you implement this AfD/merge you will be risking an all-out edit war like the one in 2004, right? There is a reason for the three articles. You might want to check the archives to understand the issues before you proceed. Cheers. Ovadyah (talk) 19:55, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

No, I know of no such issue. This is a simple case of a duplicate Hebrew/English article. In ictu oculi (talk) 22:56, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Ok, whatever you say. ;0) Ovadyah (talk) 23:01, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Fascinating to notice the rather clearly stated threat of an all-out edit war, by the way. :) John Carter (talk) 15:17, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

I don't think I was even around when this edit-war took place seven years ago; even if I was, I don't know the details. I don't have a dog in this hunt, but it think you two are greatly underestimating the complexity of this subject. Sooner or later, an expert will come along and find a problem with this mass-merge and the subsequent ham-handed rewrite. This entire subject urgently needs the attention of an expert. Ovadyah (talk) 16:20, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

This talk can go on the page. Far from being a "ham-handed rewrite" it has removed unsourced/fringe views, but still can go back to a REDIRECT, this meets AfD/merge requirements. In ictu oculi (talk) 22:38, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

I apologize for that remark, and I will strike it from the record. Ovadyah (talk) 01:29, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, In ictu oculi. You have new messages at Jayjg's talk page.
Message added 21:32, 26 June 2011 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Jayjg ^(talk) 21:32, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Felix Janiewicz

Hello. Please see Felix Janiewicz. It has been proposed to merge two articles. Thanks. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 14:02, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

Fixed/merged thanks. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:10, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	Never given a barnstar before, but it seemed appropriate. Nice work with the Birkas haMinim article! Myrkkyhammas (talk) 13:20, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Nomination of Notzrim for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Notzrim is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Notzrim until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. John Carter (talk) 20:08, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Jewish Christianity work group

Personally, I would agree that it would be good to have a Jewish Christianity work group, to deal with the Messianic Jews, the various other Jewish Christian movements of the past few hundred years, and the various groups of the early centuries of Christianity which apparently had Jewish leanings. And, actually, there is one, officially, at [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Jewish Christianity]. The primary problems I see are the unfortunate lack of editors who are specifically interested in the topics, as well as, as a lesser point, the fact that I personally know of no specific reference/overview books on the subject which might be able to be used as basic guideline indicators for content. There is a bibliography article for the topic of Jewish Christianity, but, at least so far as I have seen, a lot of those works are to some degree or other proposers of new (sometimes rejected) theories, and not that many really "neutral" overviews.

It might, emphasis on might, alternately make sense to maybe create a group to deal with "early Christianity", pretty much dealing with the often contentious topics of groups from early Christianity which have, for the most part, apparently died out or been merged into other groups. I have noticed a bit of a distressing tendency for some new groups to attempt to say that they might be revivals of one or more of these earlier variations on what those groups sometimes call "true Christianity". There are at least a few highly-regarded reference works on that topic, which often indicate the sources for their specific articles, and it may well be easier and more productive to maybe create a working group for such content, given the higher number of high-quality reference/overview sources available which could be used as indicators of weight in the articles. I am more than willing to do what I can in regard to either topic. I seem to remember you having indicated some other problem articles in your eyes. Stupid me, I forgot where, though. If there are any sources which support those POVs/theories, like, maybe, some theories about how some Indian Nasrani groups claim to be descendants of some other groups, there certainly could be potentially an article on, for instances, Indian Nasrani origins theories, which might more easily meet N and POV requirements. Anyway, if there are any articles in particular which you think I might be able to help with, I feel stupid asking you to tell me what they are again, but I will see what I can do. John Carter (talk) 20:53, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

P.S. FWIW, I have also recently seen an old Shiite group which called itself the Nazayroi or something similar, which, for all I know, might be in some translations referred to as Nazarenes. That group might be the Nizari (?), but I got the impression that the group had gone moribund. Anyway, it might be worth checking to see if there is any reason to maybe see if they have ever been called something similar enough to be included in the Nazarene disambiguation page.

2010? 2011? Recording of William Tell

I see that you have added this recording to the box.

However, if you check the top of the box, the name of the characters are all listed, so there is no need to repeat them below. More importantly, the singers' names should appear in the order in which they are listed above so that reference can be made to who is singing what role.

I've done a little tidying up and re-ordering to comply with the system which exists across the board for all opera recordings. Viva-Verdi (talk) 16:50, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Yes, sorry I was in a hurry. Will try and go back and tidy myself.. In ictu oculi (talk) 16:55, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Just a few notes

Hi, eye-glance! It wouldn't be diplomatic for me to edit Jesus in the Talmud, but might I offer you the following notes for your consideration?

• Weasel words used repetitively:

-(a)Some editions of the Talmud are missing some of the references, which were removed either by Christian censors starting in the 13th century,[4] or by Jews themselves due to fear of antisemitic reprisals, or some were possibly lost by negligence or accident.'

-(b) However, most modern editions published since the early 20th century have restored most of the references (I have a cite for this for Israeli printings since 1948 but it would probably be contested as not RS)

• Citations needed

(a) Talmud was banned by the Pope in 1553,[citation needed] (b) Index Expurgatorius in 1559.[citation needed]

Both may be supplied from Amnon Raz-Krakotzin, ‘Censorship, Editing, and the Reshaping of Jewish Identity: The Catholic Church and Hebrew Literature in the Sixteenth Century,’ in Allison P. Coudert, Jeffrey S. Shoulson (eds.) Hebraica veritas?: Christian Hebraists and the study of Judaism in early Modern Europe, Uni. of Pennsylvania Press, 2004. pp.125-158

(a) 1553 Sept 12 Pope Julius III issued a papal decreeing confiscation and burning of all copies of the Talmud in the Catholic world,p.125 (b)Put on Index 1559 p.132

• Note 5. Trude Weiss-Rosmarin (1977) , is not in the bibliography but used here, though the text is a reprint in that anthology of a section from Jacob Zallel Lauterbach‘s Rabbinic essays, Hebrew Union College Press, 1951 p.475. Since Lauterbach’s book is in the bibliography, economy of citation would suggest eliding Weiss-Rosmarin and citing Lauterbach’s book directly.

• Strack’s book is missing the umlauts.

= 'die Häretiker und die Christen nach den 'ältesten jüdischen Angaben.'

• Johann Christoph Wagenseil ‘s Tela Ignea Satanæ, sive Arcani et Horribiles Judæorum Adversus Christum, Deum, et Christianam Religionem Libri, ('Flaming Arrows of Satan, that is, the secret and horrible books of the Jews against Christ, God, and the Christian religion') which discussed Jesus in the Talmud.

=read ‘terrifying’ for horribiles. ‘Horrible’ has lost its original latinate force and flavour in modern usage. ‘Horror/horreo’ in Latin usage means anything that literally makes your hair stand on end.

• Maier wrote Jesus von Nazareth in der talmudischen Überlieferung (lacks, unlike other books a bracketed translation: ‘Jesus of Nazareth in Talmudic tradition’). Hope this helps. Best Nishidani (talk) 13:26, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Ola Nishidani. Good to see you're around, all very useful will employ 100% of it, when the opportunity presents and if can get a merge. Knew the horribiles ;) In ictu oculi (talk) 13:33, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

General comments

Several things at once here.

One, I remember you saying that you saw some POV pushing in the content you deal with. If this is the case, or if you have any other concerns about user conduct, probably the best way to deal with the matter is to raise the issue with the POV pusher or person involved in the conduct causing concern, at either their individual user talk page or discreetly in the article talk page, and ask them to adhere to the guidelines for POV. If that doesn't work, one might ask some other uninvolved party to review the situation, and make whatever comments to you or the other person that they deem required. If that still doesn't work, and the conduct in question continues, then you might be able to file a request for user conduct at WP:RFC/U regarding the conduct in question and ask for broader input. The person you called in earlier could be the "co-signer".

Two, one of the ongoing problems I have seen regarding some of the content is the overestimation of the theories of Robert Eisenman. I found a 2005 issue of Dead Sea Discoveries which contains a piece on how some theories which have been found to be "scientifically impossible", including Eisenman's, according to the article, still receive substantive attention in the media, and often tend to be presented in the media in a way which might be seen as lending those theories more credibility than they really have. I think that there is sufficient basis for a Dead Sea Scrolls in popular culture which would deal with among other things such matters. If you would like me to e-mail you the pieces, I will. They are available online from JSTOR as well, if you have access to that databank. John Carter (talk) 17:08, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Hi, you're probably right that there is, but it's quite scary how that could turn out, given that there are so many "true believers" for any fruitcake theory on Wikipedia. Can I think about it and get back to you? In ictu oculi (talk) 16:36, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

My brownie

Hey, thanks! Linguogeek (talk) 00:40, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Redirect

Hello. It seems you recently created the page Wikipedia:Overweight, which you redirected, undoubtedly unintentionally, to itself. If you can, please correct this page to be a valid redirect; otherwise, it will most likely be deleted. --R'n'B (call me Russ) 09:36, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Opera in Arabic

Thank you for creating those interesting articles. When you create beyond-stub articles with inline references, like Opera in Arabic, please consider nominating your work for front page exposure at T:TDYK. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 19:25, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Barnstars and Baroque composers

Your award of a barnstar for work on the Baroque composers list is much appreciated! Thesselius deserves his place—it's been a bit of ongoing project of mine to try to make this list as comprehensive and reliable as possible. I see you have been busy too making a start on some articles for redlinked composers. Very useful.

One question, if I may ask: What is your reason for removing the redlinked Pedro de Araújo from the list? The dates given for him may not have been correct—the Grove edition I consulted says fl. 1662–1705—although elsewhere it's given as c. 1640–1705. I've been unable to find a good non-subscription biographical link for him so far, although his Batalha de 6. tom is here. I can't honestly say I know much about him but here's an excerpt from what Grove says:

Araújo [Arauxo, Arraujo], Pedro de (fl 1662–1705). Portuguese organist and composer. He was a leading figure among secular and monastic organists in the archdiocese of Braga during the last quarter of the 18th century... He is known to have composed 13 keyboard works and another six can be attributed to him on stylistic grounds...

Not to be confused with pt:Pedro de Araújo Lima, BTW. (RT) (talk) 13:33, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Mistake, fixed thanks Pedro de Araújo (composer) :) In ictu oculi (talk) 22:03, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

No problem. Thanks for creating the article (RT) (talk) 22:13, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Re Yeshu

You happen to be right on most points, but the majority refuses to budge, and therefore the article will remain the mess it is. As soon as you drop it, my hunch is the page will no longer be edited, which may be a good thing, since it is unreadable. My practice is, if I find the 'community' unresponsive to commonsense, I work another page where things can get done without endless nagging. The rule is, unless you can expeditiously run through a poor page, and fix it to minimum standards of informed clarity, it's a waste of time to persist remonstrating logically and with evidence on the talk page. The last time I wrote a commissioned article for an encyclopedia, I was asked to do so by the general editor, who held a view of the subject diametrically opposed to my own. It took a week, and, except I think for one minute grammatical correction (it was for a foreign language work), was published as written. That is how the real world of scholarship works, on recognition of competence and trust in fairness. See you around, Cheers Nishidani (talk) 11:22, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Thank you…

…for your very kind words on my talk page. I hope that, despite our differences of opinion, or perhaps as a result of them, we can be able to collaborate together to make this project better. -- Avi (talk) 23:42, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Talk page templates

When you create a new article, would you be so kind as to add the talk page assessment templates? For bios, you just need to add {{WikiProject Biography|class=|living=}} and appropriate country project template, like {{WikiProject Poland|class=|importance=}}. See Talk:Daniel Bieliński. In the articles themselves, add the stub template if appropriate, usually country-bio-stub will do for bios. See [1]. If you could go over your past creations, this would be much appreciated. Those templates are very useful for active wikiprojects, as they feed into article alerts and other data feeds, see for example our feeds on WP:POLAND. Thanks! --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 22:07, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Is this really too much to ask? :) --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me} 18:15, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Red composers

A Marienvesper was assembled from works of several composers, mostly red links. Do you know more? - The Huelgas Ensemble returned, but only to sing praise to the cigar, not exactly my taste, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:15, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Hi Gerda, I recognise 1 of the 3 names, have opened stubs on all 3 and will try and fill in. :) In ictu oculi (talk) 00:21, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Thank you! Excellent music! I noticed one composer had a red link already, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:19, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

More music: a mass by Alessandro Striggio and his famous 40-part Ecce beatam lucem, combined with others, two red Rheingau Musik Festival#Artists (didn't know where to place it) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:03, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

Aaronic priesthood incoming links

Re: the move of Aaronic priesthood to Aaronic priesthood (LDS Church) and the creation of a disambiguation page at Aaronic priesthood. That's a good decision in my view, but there are several incoming links now the disambiguation page that need to be resolved (per the code of honor) and linked to the correct page. Most of them need to go to Aaronic priesthood (LDS Church), I think. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 22:01, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

I second that as a good decision.--חודר לעומר (talk) 20:00, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Virgin Birth

I would be very interested to know your views as to whether or not it is worth mentioning Leslie Weatherhead's [controversial] suggestion regarding the Virgin Birth of Jesus. That was included in my edit at http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Virgin_birth_of_Jesus&diff=446053315&oldid=442209340 ... but my contribution was reverted yesterday (21 August) by Wiki-Editor "History2007".--DLMcN (talk) 10:09, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Hi, Sorry but History 2007 is one of the best editors on those kind of pages, and the revert was correct. That kind of one-man idea might be notable on the article of the individual, but not in a main article. In ictu oculi (talk) 11:21, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Johannes Rulicius

Does this person mean anything to you? I'm coming at him from the pansophic direction, but he had a lot to do with refugee Protestants (Bohemian, Moravian and Polish Brethren). There is also something unexplained about relationship with Jews in Amsterdam, and the reputation as an "orientalist" (National Portrait Gallery) suggesting there might be some missing portion of biography. There's a book linked to Poland. Under different names he crops up in various places. Charles Matthews (talk) 09:55, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Mnachem Risikoff

Hi, In ictu oculi - I just reverted your moving "Mnachem Risikoff" to "Menachem Risikoff" because you say it is "usual English spelling." This issue was discussed on the talk page and everyone agreed NOT to move it. "Steven" may be the usual English spelling for that name, but if an individual used "Stephen" his whole life, we don't list the person as "Steven." I have many books by this man and the author is listed as "Mnachem," and I even have papers with his personal "stamp" that shows "Mnachem." The Library of Congress has papers on file for him as "Mnachem." That was the way he spelled his name when he used English. Thanks! NearTheZoo (talk) 16:12, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

No problem, but I did check Encyclopedia Judaica before the move. Fine by me. In ictu oculi (talk) 17:27, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

In Ictu Oculi - Thanks! Added some notes on names, including a link to a photo of Risikoff's stationery. But I have another question, and thought you might be able to help. In your note on the Mnachem Risikoff talk page you asked if there were a microfiche or other record of the Brooklyn Eagle article quoted. By going to http://www.fultonhistory.com/Fulton.html and typing in "Resnicoff," the article that is quoted comes up as the 8th .pdf image. However, I can't figure out how to link that page for a footnote, since only the search page URL comes up. I wonder if you know a way to come up with a URL that will go straight to the page that is cited? NearTheZoo (talk) 16:31, 1 September 2011 (UTC) Figured out the link! http://www.fultonhistory.com/Newspaper%205/Brooklyn%20NY%20Daily%20Eagle/Brooklyn%20NY%20Daily%20Eagle%201942%20Grayscale/Brooklyn%20NY%20Daily%20Eagle%201942%20Grayscale%20-%206232.pdf#xml=http://www.fultonhistory.com/dtSearch/dtisapi6.dll?cmd=getpdfhits&u=a583d7c&DocId=14036424&Index=Z%3a%2fFulton%20Historical&HitCount=3&hits=30e+375+41c+&SearchForm=C%3a%5cinetpub%5cwwwroot%5cFulton%5fNew%5fform%2ehtml&.pdf Will add to article. NearTheZoo (talk) 16:37, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

logic?

What logic is there for primary sources to not be in footnotes? See that not putting them there causes unneeded article bulk and exhaustion of the casual reader.--Marecheth Ho'eElohuth (talk) 18:04, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

English

I commend you on your changing of Hebrew into English. But you forgot this one! Chesdovi (talk) 11:34, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, In ictu oculi. You have new messages at Talk:Kohen Gadol.
Message added 19:48, 2 September 2011 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Dougweller (talk) 19:48, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Something you should see

I have raised a question about your recent edits at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Judaism#Template:Kehuna_and_Kohanim. Debresser (talk) 14:37, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Terumah

• See Talk:Terumah#Move?. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 05:42, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Copyeditor's Barnstar

		The Copyeditor's Barnstar
		I hereby award you the Copyeditor's Barnstar for insisting on clear, comprehensible, and grammatically correct articles, especially when it comes to Hebrew/English issues in Judaism articles. Thanks alot! Chesdovi (talk) 13:33, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Abraham ben Moses ben Maimon

I thought I had seen him around: Avraham son of Rambam. Merge? Chesdovi (talk) 15:20, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Common Era

Ref your recent addition on manuals of style to the Common Era article, you haven't explained what the "SBL" manual of style is. (Though I doubt that your addition will last: I'm sure that there are many US Christian Right journals that have an MoS prohibition on even thinking' of the terms CE and BCE :) ). --Red King (talk) 12:02, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Buddhism and Gnosticism

Proceed with proposed merge In ictu oculi (talk) 00:37, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Hello

Hello In ictu oculi, I just thought I'd let you know that I say your article Temple treasury in the New Articles list--You did an excellent job with including references and citations. Kind regards and happy editing! Jipinghe (talk) 17:30, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Translations

May I remind you of what we talked about on Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Judaism#Template:Kehuna_and_Kohanim? Please do not translate all Hebrew terms in Judaism. That is what articles and internal links are for. Debresser (talk) 23:54, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

In addition, it is common practice to bring Jewish sources as references. You should not try to singlehandedly change this without seeking prior consensus. Debresser (talk) 01:38, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Hello, In ictu oculi. You have new messages at Debresser's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Btw, where do you live? Debresser (talk) 01:47, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Aramaic primacy

There is no official position on this issue in Syriac Churches. Obviously some support(ed) it like the Assyrian Church of the East but mostly they don't view it as unlikely. Many arguments, particularly the "גַֿמלָא" are popular among native speakers of Aramaic making this hypothesis even more plausible.--Rafy talk 12:08, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

The current version is just OK as it is analogous to the Greek primacy article.--Rafy talk 14:56, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

I see what you mean... The name you mentioned earlier does yield some interesting google results. You might want to start a discussion for a rename and see how far this one is supported, I am no expert on this matter but I'm sure some of those watching the page are more informed than me.--Rafy talk 15:16, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Category:Kehuna

I removed the Cfd template from Category:Kehuna, since you did not create a discussion on the discussion page of WP:Cfd. Please feel free to re-tag the category at any time. Debresser (talk) 07:08, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Johannes von Ronge

Vegaswikian closed, and then at my request, reopened discussion of what title the Johannes von Ronge/Johannes von Rönge/Johannes Ronge article should have. Since I think the way we've been describing what we as individual editors see as the appropriate title, I am asking prior participants to !vote explicitly on each of the three options at Talk:Johannes von Ronge, hence this notice. The article has also been listed at WP:RM. Thank you for your participation, --Nuujinn (talk) 19:25, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of J. Frederic McCurdy

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If you think that this notice was placed here in error, contest the deletion by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion". Doing so will take you to the talk page where you will find a pre-formatted place for you to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. Sp33dyphil ^{"Ad astra"} 06:59, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

Jean Bodin#Religious tolerance

Is Bodin's Heptaplomeres any use to you? I was offline for a few days compulsorily, and did much background reading on Bodin. The specific reason I ask is that Christopher Hill's Milton and the English Revolution makes much of Milton's access to Bodin in manuscript, with reference to mortalism in particular. I'm unable to judge from what is said there whether this is more than a nice idea about input into Milton's thought. Charles Matthews (talk) 21:21, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Elias = Helios

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard regarding closure. The thread is "Merger of Elias into Elijah".The discussion is about the topic Topic. Thank you. -- Andreas  ^(T) 20:48, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

Chaim Avraham Dov Ber Levine haCohen

Hi, I noticed that you recently started to develop this page. I was wondering if any more is coming, because it seems to me that the page Malachim (Hasidic group) already covers this person pretty adequately. Best, Yoninah (talk) 20:06, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Re: Talk templates

In response to your question: practice and searching :) What I mean by that is that if I create an article (or see one that needs templates added), I look at other similar articles for relevant templates. After a while, you'll memorize them, for example I know that if I deal with a bio article, I need to add {{WikiProject Biographies}} and another template for the nationality (such as {{WikiProject Poland}}. Those are important as they allow the articles to be included in tools such as article alerts (see Wikipedia:POLAND#Article_news). If you write a Poland-related article and nobody adds the template, we (the members of Wikipedia:POLAND) will not be aware if it is deleted, moved, subject to an RfC comment, and so on. There are other tools that benefit from those templates, too. PS. For example, when your article on J. Frederic McCurdy was threatened with deletion, if it had been tagged with appropriate templates, you might have received help from members of those projects, rather than having to deal with the issue yourself. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me} 22:40, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

How to fill - you can again see this from looking at a few entries, usually it is just a |class=|importance= with class being stub, start, C, B (GA, A, and FA being awarded by the community), and importance, low, mid, high, top. There are some additional variables you can read at Wikipedia:Assessment, and some projects have more complex templates with taskforces, but this is not something to worry about from day one. And of course you are right, many projects are inactive. That's sad, but we can hope they will be revived one day, and that will be more likely if they'll have tagged articles. At the same time, there are projects that are quite vibrant. Frankly, it takes only a few people to make a project active - perhaps you could try to look at breathing some life into those you think should be more active (I draw my line at trying to maintain and be actively involved with three projects - Poland, Sociology and Pittsburgh). --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me} 01:28, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

Seven Laws of Noah

Whatever, its no big deal. Knock yourself out. Make your changes.