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*+1. I've tried not to comment here recently, but this keeps popping up on my watchlist. Fram, please disengage. You're doing more harm than good and there are literally thousands of other areas of the project where your time would be better spent. [[User:Jenks24|Jenks24]] ([[User talk:Jenks24|talk]]) 14:57, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
*+1. I've tried not to comment here recently, but this keeps popping up on my watchlist. Fram, please disengage. You're doing more harm than good and there are literally thousands of other areas of the project where your time would be better spent. [[User:Jenks24|Jenks24]] ([[User talk:Jenks24|talk]]) 14:57, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
*Just as a point of order, I want to make sure everyone here is aware that a user talk page discussion like this cannot compel something like an interaction ban. One can certainly be suggested, and if the parties agree to it implemented (because if they both agree to lay off, no need to get community approval for it), but if the party or parties ''don't'' agree here, if you want to try to compel such a ban you'll need to take it to AN(I). [[User:Fluffernutter|A fluffernutter is a sandwich!]] ([[User talk:Fluffernutter|talk]]) 15:36, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
*Just as a point of order, I want to make sure everyone here is aware that a user talk page discussion like this cannot compel something like an interaction ban. One can certainly be suggested, and if the parties agree to it implemented (because if they both agree to lay off, no need to get community approval for it), but if the party or parties ''don't'' agree here, if you want to try to compel such a ban you'll need to take it to AN(I). [[User:Fluffernutter|A fluffernutter is a sandwich!]] ([[User talk:Fluffernutter|talk]]) 15:36, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
**I offered this solution years ago, I have begged, implored, requested, cajoled, encouraged, even become slightly incivil in my attempts to persuade Fram to disengage. And he has been asked by numerous people, in this and at least one other of his long running series of disputes all with the same author. I don't think anything will persuade him which is why I have given up trying. If however, someone else thinks he will listen to reason, they are certainly welcome to try. And of course should he give such an undertaking he is a perfect liberty to break it at any time, it is not binding - even within Wikipedia we tend to elevate our "decisions" far beyond any reason, as if we were playing a gigantic game of [[gnomic]]. ''[[User:Rich Farmbrough|Rich]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Rich Farmbrough|Farmbrough]]'', <small>15:44, 13 September 2012 (UTC).</small><br />


===Note===
===Note===

Revision as of 15:44, 13 September 2012


Links
FAQ
Talk Archive Index
follow my blog
This page-

Drama free days
4517


Amazing award

All Around Amazing Barnstar
I can't thank you enough for all the turtle content and improvements you've been making the last few days. If I was adding the synonyms myself it would of taken me months. Exceptionally great work Richard! Thank you! Regards, SunCreator (talk) 19:35, 1 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks! It would be quicker but I have one hand and both feet immobilised. Rich Farmbrough, 22:01, 1 June 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Could you please go round all the pages which mix turtles and tortoises up and correct them? If you're not busy, that is :-) DavidFarmbrough (talk) 21:04, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I will also correct the pages that say penguins are fish and not biscuits, and that tadpoles turn into butterflies, when they are not insects, as they have eight legs. Rich Farmbrough, 21:09, 3 June 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Rich, sorry to bother you. Is missing this synonym a human error or is there some logic to why this might not be added. It's on the original Fritz 2007 pdf, page 303, right at the bottom. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 12:33, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yep, there are a bunch of things I need to go over and fix, of which that is one. In terms of pages most of the main job is done, but I think the end has more sp. per page. Rich Farmbrough, 14:28, 5 June 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Thanks for what you have done, it's a HUGE improvement! Regards, SunCreator (talk) 15:42, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Incidentally Three-striped roofed turtle has synonyms listed for 1889 and 1879. I suspect 1879 is a transcription error in Fritz, maybe someone could check. Rich Farmbrough, 14:42, 5 June 2012 (UTC).[reply]
The Kachuga dhongoka Fritz entry that is out of year sequence does look strange. I have not been able to track down Anderson, Zool. Res. Yunnan, 1878: 732. For now I will assume it's correct information but out of sequence. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 15:42, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Follow on

Greetings Rich Farmbrough, I noticed your comment where you expressed a possible interest in improving Wikipedia coverage of articles related to record production. It would be great having your collaborative input on how best to achieve this goal. Review links associated with WP:RECP and P:RECP, and know that you are considerably welcome to help forge the path forward. My76Strat (talk) 09:21, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It is a distinct pleasure to welcome you to this project. I agree wholeheartedly with your stated motivations and stand ready to collaborate unto this needed end. Be bold with your ideas, for I am keen. Best regards - My76Strat (talk) 18:02, 2 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

A Barnstar I made for you (with help from my bot)

The tireless cybernetic contributor Barnstar
I wanted to acknowledge the sacrifice made and the changes that so much editing brings to the way you think and dream. When I play the computer games too much, then it shades everything else I do, so after a million edits I can only imaging what differences there must be from people who do just a little bit of editing. I wonder if it is like Neo in the Matrix, where vision merges into code and everything normal dissappears, maybe it doesn't go that far, but I prefer to think it can, life is more interesting that way. Penyulap ☏23:54, 13 Oct 2024 (UTC)_
  1. That is rather amazing.
  2. As far as I know I don't dream WP, I don't see it when I close my eyes. That latter has happened when I have done something intensively for 48 hours.
  3. The integration is simply a matter of experience. Of course, my typing skills are beginning to fail, and my reactions slowing, but most things I have already seen and done many times.
  4. Everything normal does disappear, just the same as reading a book, watching a film, or doing a hard problem. Someone I know called it "all interrupts disabled".
  5. Thanks for the barnstar.

Rich Farmbrough, 22:54, 2 June 2012 (UTC).[reply]

Thank you, you're welcome, oh, and don't forget Jaguar, I just posted to his page. Penyulap ☏ 23:34, 2 Jun 2012 (UTC)
 Done Rich Farmbrough, 12:26, 3 June 2012 (UTC).[reply]


Astrobots

Can we talk about the astrobot situation? I don't know where to go from here. Chrisrus (talk) 13:45, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I uploaded the settings to WP:AWB/scripts, it includes the article list, so anyone with AWB access should be able to run it. Rich Farmbrough, 13:50, 4 June 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Yep, that's the one... Rich Farmbrough, 14:38, 4 June 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Thanks! So, should I put in another botreq? How should it be worded? What's the best thing to do with the orbitboxes for those that have orbitboxes? How many on the list even have orbitboxes, anyway? How can I identify someone with "WP:AWB access"? Chrisrus (talk) 18:46, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Al admins, me and everyone on the list at Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser/CheckPage can technically use AWB. Anyone else can request access. Rich Farmbrough, 19:04, 4 June 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Ok! So where should I put in the request, what should it say, and what in your opinion is the best way to save the orbitbox data, if, in your opinion, should it be saved? Chrisrus (talk) 19:23, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ask at WP:AWB/tasks and/or bot requests. I wouldn't worry about the orbitbox data, it's all available from JPL etc., and if it is wanted it would be better to re-generate it en-bloc.
If you would, please follow Wikipedia_talk:Notability_(astronomical_objects)#Helpful_Pixie_Bot and comment as you would. Chrisrus (talk) 20:57, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
If you would, please follow Wikipedia:Bot_requests#Bot_needed_to_count_infoboxes_on_a_very_long_list. I'm confused. Are you allowed to comment there? Please advise, I'm trying to figure out what to do next. Chrisrus (talk) 05:57, 20 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Help another wiki?

Hi Rich. I occasionally edit at another wiki. It was set up by a person who was tired of all the BS here. They're running a relatively recent version of MediaWiki. I've tried to help them with some template stuff over the last year, but haven't been very sucessful. I was wondering if you might be willing to help over there. I know you've given a lot of your life to this project and might be loyal to it, so if the answer is "no", that's fine. I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask. Best regards. 64.40.57.10 (talk) 01:13, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This isn't the only wiki where I have a million edits![Citation needed] And sure I'd help with some templating as long as it's not something against my principles. Rich Farmbrough, 01:46, 5 June 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Thank you very kindly, Rich. You truly are a courteous and generous individual and I'm very thankful for your help. The problems I'm having are over at en.wikialpha.org where I'm registered as Web. Ive left the details at my talk page over there. I didn't link to the site because the guys there got dinged at AN/I for spamming their site here last summer Thank you so much. 64.40.57.10 (talk) 02:22, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you 64.40.57.10 (talk) 03:09, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Helping the Welsh Language Wiki

Hi Rich, I've left a message here for your attention. It basically asks which bot should I approve for the new coordinates on Welsh language Wiki. Thanks. Llywelyn2000 (talk) 06:35, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Go for it! Llywelyn2000 (talk) 05:29, 13 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Before I can authorise your Bot, don't you have to pop in to Wiki-cy? Otherwise I can't see you. Llywelyn2000 (talk) 18:49, 13 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Please log in to Wikipedia-cy and make a bot request here. Thanks. Llywelyn2000 (talk) 04:17, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You've got permission, so when you have the time, let's do it! Llywelyn2000 (talk) 08:08, 25 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You've been busy! Anything I can do to help? Llywelyn2000 (talk) 05:50, 27 June 2012 (UTC) Whawww! You've done some great work on the Welsh Wikipedia: great coo-ordinates and geotagging stuff on Welsh Mountain Peaks - brilliant![reply]

The da Vinci Barnstar
For all the technical problems you solved on the Welsh Wikipedia - ARDDERCHOG! Llywelyn2000 (talk) 18:16, 1 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Rich. Is it too much to ask whether you could help us a second time? I've uploaded / written around 2,000 articles - by hand! - based on Scottish peaks. Could we do the same with those, and get a map to show their location in Scotland? What you did on the Welsh one was fantastic, and it would greatly improve the Scottish articles, just as much. Diolch yn fawr! Llywelyn2000 (talk) 11:58, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure if you missed this one Rich? Or is it too much of a climb this time?! 2,000 Welsh articles on Scottish Peaks above 610 m; and no map in sight! Take a look here please. Thanks. Llywelyn2000 (talk) 22:45, 15 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
This one too much of a mountain to climb, Richard? Llywelyn2000 (talk) 04:54, 28 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Your barnstar

Δ This user has endured a wide breadth of the institutional ignorance that darkens this organization, yet loves it still. Δ

I lament that you've earned this "Black barnstar of institutional shame" aside from seeing your strength of character, the only good thing about this award is that so very few are entitled to display it. Highlight the award as if to copy and the massage becomes clear. My76Strat (talk) 16:53, 9 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! Rich Farmbrough, 18:01, 9 June 2012 (UTC).[reply]
It comes with a massage? Cool. Nobody Ent 18:06, 9 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

A barnstar for you!

The Editor's Barnstar
I had missed your warm hand over my contributions. Thanks. Mesfushor (talk) 20:22, 9 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nice barnstar Thank you! Rich Farmbrough, 21:43, 9 June 2012 (UTC).[reply]
The Purple Barnstar
for equanimity under the harrassment now enforced by arbcom. i will now be moving more DNB content over in your name. Slowking4⇔ †@1₭ 22:52, 9 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

writing backwards

It does make it hard to read, it's not backwards, but it is so very strange for it to be out of place, like, even when the lyrics of one song are sung to the melody of another song it's more pleasing. But I expect that will pass in time. One moral, which is my favourite, would be that careless curiosity is destroying all the best ideas, because there is no top shelf to put things on. That's my favourite moral, and the bane of my existence.

My own moral is that maths is not all it's cracked up to be, because so many good things don't fit inside mathematics. What's needed is a place to put all those good things, and there are a LOT of good things, so the best place to put things is inside big fat heads, take mine for example, it's basically empty, and lots of real estate, of course we need extra big fat heads, because good things keep getting produced, you know, like stupid ideas, good ideas are endless. Right now, good things and people go to the same place. Penyulap ☏ 09:43, 12 Jun 2012 (UTC)

Interesting reading. Rich Farmbrough, 22:28, 18 June 2012 (UTC).[reply]


Bots

Hi Rich. Have you considered that your bots may have developed a superior form of artificial intelligence and caused your demise on purpose? It won't have been the first time. benzband (talk) 12:50, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for that stupid comment. I just noticed your "quote of the day" displayed at the top of this page. So i thought, maybe you would be interested in Wikipedia's Motto of the day project, which provides a new quote every day? benzband (talk) 09:21, 23 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Nomination for deletion of Template:Deleted template

Template:Deleted template has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Axem Titanium (talk) 13:42, 18 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost: 18 June 2012

Vendor-created ISBNs

Do you have any suggestions for the treatment of what appear to be ad hoc ISBNs created by booksellers (Amazon, perhaps?) for publications issued without an ISBN, as in this case? These numbers are useful for users who wish to find the book, but should a bot (yours or someone else's--I know yours are blocked for the forseeable future) that vets for hyphenation rules ever run again, these purpose-made ISBNs will get re-tagged. Is the template {{Listed Invalid ISBN}} appropriate for these cases, even though there is no problem with the math? Any other ideas? Thanks--ShelfSkewed Talk 05:35, 20 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, this is unlikely to be created by the bookseller. Amazon use an ASIN for un-numbered publications. The number should probably have one less "9" and start 978-0- or 978-1- . I have emailed the ADL for more information. Note that there is a system for numbering books after publication, which may be what happened in this case, or it may be a second impression got an ISBN, even if the first was un-numbered. As for the error tag being removed, next time around the block I will have to simply create a list and fix them all myself. Rich Farmbrough, 09:06, 26 June 2012 (UTC).[reply]
So in the meantime I should go ahead and remove the check-isbn tag if the number is useful for finding the book? I'd be happy to keep track of these as I run across them, if that would be worthwhile. Best,--ShelfSkewed Talk 15:00, 26 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
No, you can make the tag invisible, by changing isbn = 012345679 to id = ISBN 0123456789. We should still keep track of invalid ISBNs. Rich Farmbrough, 22:11, 26 June 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Will do.--ShelfSkewed Talk 03:51, 27 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Mail

Hello, Rich Farmbrough. Please check your email; you've got mail!
It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.

lets hope

you get unblocked soon and do better edits — Preceding unsigned comment added by Windows.dll (talk • contribs) 23:59, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The account unblocks on 6 July, and the damage done by the Arbitration Committee means that my contributions will be far less. Quite how the restrictions and blocks create benefit for anyone apart from a few malcontents has never been proposed, much less demonstrated. Rich Farmbrough, 08:43, 26 June 2012 (UTC).[reply]
straight punishment, all things considered. Penyulap ☏ 16:40, 26 Jun 2012 (UTC)
Three or four more articles today went uncorrected - this is just through my general use of WP. How this punishes me is a mystery, it actually saves me time. Other readers of those articles, however are punished. Rich Farmbrough, 20:38, 2 July 2012 (UTC).[reply]

The Signpost: 25 June 2012

bot tutorial

Hi Rich,

Would you be willing to tutor me in creating a bot to run this task? I've requested it several times, but I think you're the only one who'd ever be likely to take it on, so I'd probably better do it myself. I've never created a bot before, and my background is just basic generic programming.

— kwami (talk) 20:42, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'll have to look at the task, but I don't see why not. Rich Farmbrough, 20:40, 2 July 2012 (UTC).[reply]

Category:User htz

Category:User htz, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Pichpich (talk) 21:54, 30 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

G7 it. Rich Farmbrough, 18:50, 1 July 2012 (UTC).[reply]

The Signpost: 02 July 2012

Searching a website

Hi. Re: IUCN. They have a search facility and I think the results are handed out by a php or something similar. It is not essential, but I think it would be handy to search the webstie with a script, but I have not been able to find a suitable expression for "get" in Perl LWP. The code in the redlist html indicates a "post" method is used. Otherwise, I can use urls directly to the species pages and the "get" works. Just for scanning purposes of the wiki mark-up code, I have just found out that "get" does not work with the url "http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=White-crowned_Parrot&action=edit", probably for similar reasons. Do you have any comments? Snowman (talk) 15:27, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Teahouse

Hi Rich, thanks for helping at the Teahouse. One more thing you can do - because many of the vistors are new editors we try to put talkback notices on their talk pages when their question is answered (detailed here). I found a script that does this semi-automatically if you're interested. --NeilN talk to me 23:52, 8 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I'm a complete idiot. I forgot about your restriction. Truly sorry. --NeilN talk to me 23:56, 8 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes I am interested, though I am forbidden from using such dark magiks. Rich Farmbrough, 23:58, 8 July 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Incidentally I made a quicker verison {{Teahouse talkback}} some time ago. Rich Farmbrough, 00:00, 9 July 2012 (UTC).[reply]
It's here: User:Writ Keeper/Scripts/teahouseTalkbackLink.js. It adds a TB link to every signature. Click the one besides the questioner, add the section title, and it will place a TB notice on the talk page. --NeilN talk to me 00:04, 9 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. Currently laptopping from Heathrow, on my way to Wikimania, so can't do much sophisticated stuff. Rich Farmbrough, 00:10, 9 July 2012 (UTC).[reply]
  • You understand of course that you are forbidden from using an eTicket, automated pre-boarding, inflight semi-automated service requests, and must claim your baggage by physically walking to the plane and rummaging around in the boot for your bag rather than depend on any automated or semi-automated baggage system, yes? Also be aware that you must eschew any pre-printed name tag while at Wikimania. Please take one of the blanks provided and physically write your name on the tag. If you choose to ignore this warning, you will be flogged, and forced to walk the gang plank at flight level 10,000 on your return journey. --Hammersoft (talk) 17:26, 9 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Nononono. It's clear that flying is an assisted way of travelling so Rich will have to get to Washington using his own two feet (we'll allow the use of a rowboat). Given that there's approximately 5,900 kms between London and Washington, doing 30 kms/day will get him to Wikimania on January 22, 2013. Hope he's packed his longjohns! --NeilN talk to me 18:18, 9 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hmm. You know, Google Maps says he can use a kayak to go from Tokyo to Seattle [1]. But, no such boating option is available for crossing the Atlantic [2]. I'm afraid he'll have to walk on water. --Hammersoft (talk) 19:06, 9 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I got to Washington by a number of forms of transport:

  1. foot (Walking and running)
  2. travelator
  3. escalator
  4. lift
  5. tram
  6. bus
  7. underground
  8. railway
  9. car
  10. plane

Despite realising the opportunity I restrained myself from travelling on the luggage carousel. Rich Farmbrough, 23:22, 9 July 2012 (UTC).[reply]

Nomination for deletion of Template:Javascript in categories

Template:Javascript in categories has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. — This, that, and the other (talk) 03:01, 10 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost: 09 July 2012


Hi Rich

That's me ViswaPrabhaവിശ്വപ്രഭtalk 06:57, 11 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Help me install AWB on my laptop, and then help me do some talk page template updates. I can show you what I do by hand, and you a can show me how to automate it. Perhaps I may want to put in requests instead of doing some complex things myself.--DThomsen8 (talk) 11:30, 12 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Howdy Rich

It's Daniel Nasaw with the BBC - we met Thursday at Wikimania. Thanks for your time and your help - the piece should be up on the website tomorrow Sunday 15 July. Meanwhile, I'm hoping I might talk to you briefly on another Wiki related topic. I don't know where on the planet you'll be but if you're happy to talk early in the upcoming week, would you please give me a shout at daniel dot nasaw at bbc.co.uk and we can set something up? Thanks so much. Dnasaw (talk) 15:54, 14 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I just read the BBC story (Wikipedia: Meet the men and women who write the articles). Congratulations! - Pointillist (talk) 08:34, 15 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I am relieved to hear that Richard is not a piece of cow luggage either ! this is NOT Richard. :) Penyulap
WooHoo! I'm glad to know my friend Richard is a good looking guy, it's a bit of a worry online, you never know what your friends look like. I've only ever been seen by one wikipedia editor (mental note: organise a hit).
Penyulap ☏ 09:01, 15 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Congratulations on making the news - and it wasn't for riding the baggage carousel (you can only do that if you look like cow luggage, or even cow luggage). BTW - you look like my hubby, only hubby is rather greyer. I don't know whether this is a good thing or a bad thing. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 22:22, 15 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Wowow! It was awesome meeting you at the conference! I stopped by to congratulate you on getting your face on the main page of BBC's US News website! Thanks for fixing all the articles on mixed martial arts. You really are a Wikipedia ninja. Blue Rasberry (talk) 20:15, 16 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Cheers

Enjoy your stay It was a pleasure to meet my fellow millionaire—I hope you had an excellent stay and please let me know if you think we can collaborate in the future. Cheers. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 21:51, 15 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You have a new message on your Meta-Wiki talk page

Hello Rich, you have got a new message here. — T. 05:21, 16 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Please accept this virtual cookie as a thank-you for the irl cookie you were kind enough to dig up for me when I mentioned my Wikimania lunch hadn't come with one. A truly gallant gesture! A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 17:03, 16 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Wikimania!

It was great to meet you IRL this past week! And congrats on being featured in that BBC article - as I believe the youth are putting it these days, you're a rock star :) Accedietalk to me 23:42, 16 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost: 16 July 2012

Template:Football box header

Hi Rich. Is Template:Football box header, which you created in September last year, still required? It's not transcluded anywhere and it's only referenced as a "See also" from the docpage for Template:Football box. If it's no longer required, I'll propose it for deletion (or you can, if you prefer). Thanks. DH85868993 (talk) 08:03, 20 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've nominated the template for deletion. You are welcome to participate in the deletion discussion. Regards. DH85868993 (talk) 12:06, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well done!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18833763

--Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 03:31, 21 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Wikimania

Hey Rich - Just wanted to drop you a note to say it was a pleasure to meet you at Wikimania, and put a face to a name I've seen all over the project. Hope you are well and enjoyed yourself in D.C. --David Shankbone 05:28, 21 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Wikimania

Wikimania
Hi Rich Farmbrough! It was a pleasure meeting you at Wikimania 2012! Hope to see you again next year!

—Ynhockey (Talk) 13:48, 21 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Nomination for deletion of Template:Portal frameless

Template:Portal frameless has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward) (talk) 11:37, 22 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Illegal activities"

Accusing the Arbitration Committee of "illegal activities" in my book, is definitely not OK. Please explain why you posted that and why it is not an actionable violation of our conduct policies. NW (Talk) 12:03, 22 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Egregious copyright violations for a start. In the deeper past there are other events. The critical point, which has been missed I think, is that quite apart from systemic errors and groupthink, it is extremely naive to assume that all functionaries now and in the future will be deserving of the trust placed in them by the community. We have empirical evidence to the contrary. For this reason, if no other, we should design our processes and procedures in such a way as to maximize good governance, by providing a reasonable set of checks and balances. While being an admin is no big deal, being a functionary (specifically Arbitrator, Checkuser or OTRS) is a big deal. Clearly making herculean efforts to ensure the quality of the post holders is of limited values, we may cite national, corporate and religious leaders. It is a shame that comments I have made to this effect appear to have been interpreted by some as attacking current postholders either individually or collectively, whereas, whilst I have expressed serious concerns about specific actions of postholders, primarily as a group, these are not of the type or nature relating to basic trustworthiness. Rich Farmbrough, 18:45, 22 July 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Perhaps a large part of this is the reader's (my) fault, but when I read your comment, I took the third sentence to be a simple continuation of the second sentence, making it seem like you were accusing all fifteen Arbitrators of being criminals. I would deeply appreciate it if you could go back and clarify your statement, if only to make it clear to others like me who might misread your point. NW (Talk) 22:17, 22 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Or invent something amusing about the 15 that we can all enjoy. Penyulap ☏ 22:56, 22 Jul 2012 (UTC)
If it were necessary to invent things for there to be a problem, there wouldn't be a problem. I am surprised at the emails I have received from those who read that comment. Rich Farmbrough, 02:21, 23 July 2012 (UTC).[reply]
I did read it as accusing us all of some criminal activity (then I thought - but how does he know I ran that red light?) - would I be right in guessing you were intending a reference to Rlevse and his copyright problems? Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:51, 22 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Depends on which country you live in as to which ridiculous laws you'd be breaking at all times, like possessing a lobster is actually a felony in the United States. Penyulap ☏ 23:56, 22 Jul 2012 (UTC)
I didn't know it was a felony but I did know that possessing any living creature is considered rude and somewhat creepy. Movies have been made about it...usually children and attractive young women...but not a lobster that I am aware of. Might make a good spongebob episode though! Kumioko (talk) 02:05, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Only if it is loaded, I think. Rich Farmbrough, 00:41, 23 July 2012 (UTC).[reply]
It's a felony all right, it was in a lecture video I saw, I'm away from home to see doctors right now, but when I return later I'll find it for you, it's a good video. Penyulap ☏ 02:17, 23 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Sorry I couldn't resist, I was referring to a different kind of possession that usually involves a catholic priest, a crucifix and rotating head. Kumioko (talk) 02:24, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
as opposed to the freezedried lobster crushed and portioned into small plastic bags and sold by the gram. Penyulap ☏ 02:31, 23 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Pen, you know I often type a smart comment, then hit the back button rather than the save button. I find that little voice that asks "is this really witty/helpful/erudite, or am I just going to come across like Mister Nigel-murray" is very helpful sometimes.Elen of the Roads (talk) 01:46, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Elen, sometimes I think that we should all remember that we are just a bunch of people with not a lot else to do except get on our computers and work together at trying to make the world a better place, I think sometimes we get so tied up in the details of the processes that we use that we lose sight of the big picture, so sometimes I do try to say "hey come on now, we're just people, let's lighten up a bit and not be too serious as stress can be pretty bad for our health" I'm not saying there isn't a blance and a time to be serious there is,. but all work and no play makes us all Grumpy. And look at poor Andy ! I do everything I can to cheer him up, and he never gives me a secret smile or a gruff 'go away' and I think it's better that way actually. I picture him sitting at his computer frowning at the ambulance I gave him. I think he has a frown for every occasion, and every activity he does around the house. I think when he was little, and skipping down the street, he'd do it with a frown. He'd be like "La la la la lah" skipping and frowning at the same time. It works for Andy, it's the thing I like best about Andy the Grump. Oh, and I've tried to start humour eradication drives before to make this place more serious, oh how I have tried, but I got little support in my endeavours. Jokes and humour are a menace to society and need to be stamped out I agree, but who's with me ? I think too many people like a little bit of stress relief now and then, and gosh darn it, I think occasionally, not very often, I can raise a smile, and I don't think that's all bad for our health and wellbeing and the community as a whole.
That said, I do put my foot in my own mouth sometimes, I just got uninvited from someones talkpage for something I wish I hadn't said, and can't exactly go back and apologise where I'm not welcome to comment. So yes, I am human and have regrets too often for my liking. Penyulap ☏ 02:13, 23 Jul 2012 (UTC)
Should have explained myself better. The lobster comment was funny - especially Kumioko's addition. But your previous comment.....why would Rich want to make up stories about how I was involved in criminal activity? In Bones, Vincent Nigel-murray was so nervous around people that he talked all the time, and a proportion of everything he said was inappropriate or offensive even though he never intended it that way. A fun character in a tv series, but not a great role model. When I don't manage to stop myself, I have a habit of making "humorous" quips that are actually inappropriate. Rich can confirm this, because I've done it to him before now. Elen of the Roads (talk) 10:20, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well I did make up a humorous SF story, indirectly featuring the committee, to try and demonstrate the dangerous waters we find ourselves in, in a less threatening manner than spelling it out to those currently nurturing the cute baby alligators. Unfortunately my dystopian tale was largely ignored, as far as I can tell, so it's not a path I am likely to tread again. Rich Farmbrough, 14:02, 23 July 2012 (UTC).[reply]
I must have missed that. Did it feature me as an ass-kicking hot babe. No such luck I expect - I was probably the grumpy old bat in the cardi who kept rambling on about the good old days. Elen of the Roads (talk) 14:10, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
User_talk:Rich_Farmbrough/Archive/2012May#An_outing. The last page of archives before ArbCom broke that, appropriately. And no, you are not a grumpy old bat in a cardi, this is fiction remember? Rich Farmbrough, 14:24, 23 July 2012 (UTC).[reply]
I loved that story, however, not being familiar with Arbcom, I missed some of it's tales. Penyulap ☏ 16:06, 23 Jul 2012 (UTC)

I would add a clarifying word or two, however the page is now protected. Once again discussion is being stifled. I note some absurd points on the talk page, doubtless there were also absurd points in the case, since I was prevented from commenting on it, I have not followed it in detail, nonetheless from what I have seen the standard of the case seems to be barely above the sophomoric, and it can be accounted no more than an accident if some of the proposed remedies appear to coincide with the decisions a more mature and deliberative body might have made. Rich Farmbrough, 01:05, 23 July 2012 (UTC).[reply]

Page unprotected. NW (Talk) 01:55, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. Rich Farmbrough, 02:18, 23 July 2012 (UTC).[reply]

Federal offence in the United States, possession of a lobster.

here it is. Sorry it is a not a felony it is a "Federal CRIMINAL statute" to possess a lobster. Clearly I do not spend enough time studying US Federal criminal statutes to remember clearly the difference. The video is very good for people who live in the USA it includes a lot of real expert advice, and from what I do understand about the USA it's a place where, like en wikipedia (which is based too much on that same culture), mistakes are permanent (deadly or indef). Innocent people are put to death in Texas, USA as explained here in the same way as people are indeffed here on wikipedia. Basically it's not relevant if the editor or the person is 'factually innocent' as was the case with my last block, the fact that I was innocent was considered irrelevant by the reviewing admin. Strange case in the video, it mentions a (mentally ill) man who was tricked into confessing to 'assist the police to catch the real killer', and he was convicted instantly by a jury and spent 20 years in prison until DNA evidence proved him innocent. The judge stated he would have indeff penaltied (executed) him if Michigan had the indeff penalty bit at that time. I'm not saying that I was blocked because I was acting strange, I'm saying innocence has nothing at all to do with some block reviews on wikipedia, and in the case of my last block appeal it is fundamentally and patently true that innocence as I was, that had nothing whatsoever to do with the (I have to stop myself here from calling him an idiot) the admin's decision. Anyhow, there is of course the lesson to come out of it all, or the victory, which is my talkpage is babysitting a prototype template which allows the community to both back up our admins, or point out to them the problem to them. At the moment it's rough, it needs the third section 'unclear' as well) Penyulap ☏ 16:03, 23 Jul 2012 (UTC)

When people are executed, they lose their life. When editors are indeff'ed, they have another opportunity to get a life. Cheers, Jclemens (talk) 16:09, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I guess when you get put to death in the USA, you don't have to live there anymore. Penyulap ☏ 16:22, 23 Jul 2012 (UTC)
I am afraid that you wield your power thoughtlessly if that is what you believe. On a mundane level the blocks imposed by Elen and Arbcom made me ineligible for a number of Wikipedia related jobs for which I would otherwise have been well suited. On a more severe level ostracism and isolation are correlated with suicide and violence. (Volkart 1983) Rich Farmbrough, 17:16, 23 July 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Some people were telling me at ANI that I can't mentor a newbie because of my last two blocks, what a crock of s*** right there. But hey, it's as good an excuse as any pointless excuse. Many countries have strange laws that say speeding ticket this no running for office that or whatever, interesting is Julian Assange is going to run for a seat in the Senate of Australia (government) and apparently he may well be able to do it from a jail cell anywhere along the way from England ? through Switzerland to death row in America, all while picking up the Nobel prizes and what have you along the way. I think it's brilliant. Penyulap ☏ 17:29, 23 Jul 2012 (UTC)
For clarity, by Wikipedia related jobs I mean real jobs paying real money, not on-wiki roles, badges or hats. But arguably that too, apparently I was eligible to re-stand as an admin immediately, but do ArbCom seriously think anyone could weather the kind of event that would be? Rich Farmbrough, 17:38, 23 July 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Again someone said they'd like to see me be an admin on my talkpage, so yeah, I have ideas on how to weather such an event :) but in my case I don't actually care to. Penyulap ☏ 17:45, 23 Jul 2012 (UTC)

Ramadan

I have been doing some good things with the Ramadan article. At least, that is my opinion. There seems to be one editor who disagrees, see the talkpage. In any case, do you think I'll get to pick my virgins myself? Debresser (talk) 00:48, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

By pick do you mean "choose" or "pluck"? It is somewhat in dispute, I understand, as to the correct translation of that phrase anyway. Rich Farmbrough, 02:29, 23 July 2012 (UTC).[reply]
I pluck my chickens and choose my chicks, thank you very much. 07:16, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

July

Note that I am travelling without a permanent Internet connexion until the beginning of August. Rich Farmbrough, 02:38, 23 July 2012 (UTC).[reply]

Which is hardly going to help me get the quick tip I asked you about in an email just then. oh well, I hope you're having fun. Yer lucky butt. Penyulap ☏ 08:51, 24 Jul 2012 (UTC)

Wishing you well

I hope you culminate your travels safely and profit greatly for the endeavor. Assuming Godspeed, it would be great if when you are more available if you could directly assist a few tasks ongoing at WP:RECP. I know you have skills that would greatly enhance some immediate efforts. Sincerely 76Strat String da Broke da (talk) 04:53, 24 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Nomination of Nu gaze for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Nu gaze is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/AfD discussion title until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. Callanecc (talk • contribs) talkback (etc) template appreciated. 11:31, 24 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost: 23 July 2012

Astrobots

Good news! Astrobotster User:Merovingian seems to have become active again recently. Please if you would watch User_talk:Merovingian#List_of_MInor_Planets and comment as you would. You seem to understand him better than I. Chrisrus (talk) 16:09, 24 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ramona Quimby merger proposal

Hello. There's a merger proposal relating to an article or articles you've contributed to, relating to the Ramona Quimby books. You are invited to read about and discuss it here: Talk:Ramona (novel series)#Merger Proposal. Thank you. Tlqk56 (talk) 00:06, 26 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Riicchhhhh

...you should add yourself to the host page damnit! WP:Teahouse/Hosts :) You know you want tooooooooooo ;-) SarahStierch (talk) 22:52, 27 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Rich Farmbrough, 01:45, 2 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]

Did YOU know

I liked the quote of the day, and it's nearly the same thing as a Sam Cooke song, "A Change Is Gonna Come"-- the second stanza is "It's been too hard living but I'm afraid to die 'Cause I don't know what's up there beyond the sky It's been a long, a long time coming, but I know a change gonna come, oh yes it will". It is truly a great song covered by a lot of the early sixties soul singers and many others since then, and worth hearing and seeing the track here: [3] (Copied from MetroLyrics.com) --Leahtwosaints (talk) 10:13, 29 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. There was another song from that era - "Everybody wants to go to Heaven, but nobody wants to die." Rich Farmbrough, 02:21, 2 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]

Nearly forgot- re: session musicians

Hey. when I want to add a more subcategory rather than just session musicians to American session musicians there's normally no problem. But I tried to do so for those from New Zealand, and I think I screwed it up. And-- today, I find that there are some Czech session players which could use a similar category.. but, you see my dilemma? I mean, first I screw up the New Zealand one- check and see! I wanted to add Bruce Lynch and Neil Finn to the NZ session players at the least. I'd appreciate your help. :) --Leahtwosaints (talk) 10:38, 29 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Should all be good now. Let me know if there are problems. Rich Farmbrough, 02:42, 2 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Many thanks, as usual! --Leahtwosaints (talk) 01:30, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

MoS (Japan-related) and embedding Japanese in English Wikipedia

  • I don't know who put it in the MoS, but the advice on embedding Japanese in English Wikipedia is wrong. Several kanji examples in this MoS page are also not properly tagged. (If you know anybody else who is interested in this topic, please either advise them or let me know their User name so that I can notify them before I make any changes to the MoS.)
  • When embedding multiple languages in a web page, it's advisable to use the lang tag as semantic markup (1) to indicate the correct language to the browser—the browser will then choose a font that includes the character set for that language to render the snippet of text that you marked with language tags. The other reason (2) for using such semantic markup is that Google is not forced to guess the language—sometimes, or even often, it guesses wrong for Chinese and Japanese. The reason is that some Unicode character code points are shared by Chinese and Japanese. In a Japanese font, a Unicode character can be displayed quite differently than the same Unicode character displayed in a Chinese font. There are some examples here. With many European languages one can often get away with not using the lang tag. But Japanese embedded in English text and not properly tagged is likely to be garbled if displayed on a Chinese PC—and vice versa. In Wikipedia, the mechanism for lang-tagging is Template:Lang and other related templates such as the Nihongo templates for explaining embedded Japanese (there are also Chinese templates for explaining Chinese). In Japanese web pages, for example, if English is not tagged as such then it is displayed using a Japanese font, and looks really ugly. FYI there's a Japanese web page tagged for English, Chinese, and Korean here. LittleBen (talk) 18:24, 30 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The best approach to fixing this is to either change the MoS page or discuss it on the talk page. The user who added the advice may no longer be interested, or may have left. As far as the {{Lang}} template is concerned I am a big supporter, if more refinement is needed,please let me know. Rich Farmbrough, 02:28, 2 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]

The Signpost: 30 July 2012

Transclusion problem

Hi Rich, would you know where a vandal could have gotten in the templates such that it links back to his user page? These links shouldn't be and it would be good to remove them per DENY. I can't find the link. It pertains to this thread and there is this archived SPI case. He has been using open proxies and likes to taunt. Any help you can offer would be appreciated. Cheers,
 — Berean Hunter (talk) 17:50, 31 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There are currently no transclusions - lots of links but they seem to be legitimate, as far as I have looked. Rich Farmbrough, 00:33, 2 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Check again. Something really weird happening imo. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 01:08, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Here is the evidence for the first assertion. Is there an example of a linked to page that seems odd you could provide? Rich Farmbrough, 01:14, 2 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Looks like it's fixed now. Yesterday a huge number or articles and Wikipedia core pages linked to that user page. No longer, maybe I missed some initial vandalism and when I looked at the pages that link here some sort of propagation was going on? Either way it's now okay. So no problem. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 01:23, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
OK cool. Rich Farmbrough, 01:25, 2 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Linking pages
Apart from pages in his sockpuppet categories I see the following linked to.
  1. Category:Wikipedia sockpuppets of Earth Exploding Live
  2. User talk:115.118.195.23
  3. User talk:171.98.154.2
  4. User talk:95.143.115.77
  5. User talk:Casliber
  6. User:Hopiakuta/ You do keep accusing me of malware
  7. User:Kathryn NicDhàna/Admin Toolbox
  8. User:Moste Helpful Assistante
  9. User:Pigman/Admin toolbox
  10. Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard
  11. Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive235
  12. Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive762
  13. Wikipedia:Help desk
  14. Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Earth Exploding Live
  15. Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Earth Exploding Live/Archive

(I would turn these into links buut that would require automation.) Rich Farmbrough, 01:24, 2 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]

Not sure if it was intended, but I found the above extremely funny. :) Regards, SunCreator (talk) 01:32, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Arybhata Pi

Hello,
You have one new message here: User_talk:Titodutta#Aryabhata.27s_Calculation_of_Pi --Tito Dutta ✉ 19:58, 31 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

checkY Answered on user's talk page. Rich Farmbrough, 21:04, 2 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]

Regex

Is it okay to ask you about Regex? I'm trying to learn and read about it but some things I've tried don't work as intended so I'm a little stuck. It's okay if your not interested I can't try the help desk. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 01:36, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Go ahead. Rich Farmbrough, 01:39, 2 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Starting with the AWB typo rule of <Typo word="Manufacture" find="\b([Mm])an(?:[ai]fac?|[au]fa)[ct]ur(e[ds]?|ers?|ing)\b" replace="$1anufactur$2" />
The above rule works but I encountered some spelling "manuafracture" and "Manuafacture" that this rule is doesn't detect. So I tried extending the comparison by adding "|[ua]fa" thus ending up with \b([Mm])an(?:[ai]fac?|[ua]fa|[au]fa)[ct]ur(e[ds]?|ers?|ing)\b" but this didn't work.
Now I figure the problem is that it's only comparing to one character 'u', so how to I extend the rule to match the two letter 'ua'? Regards, SunCreator (talk) 01:48, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

To allow for two crudely

\b([Mm])an(?:[ai]fac?|[ua][ua]fa|[au]fa)[ct]ur(e[ds]?|ers?|ing)\b"

One or two you can use

\b([Mm])an(?:[ai]fac?|[ua]{1,2}fa|[au]fa)[ct]ur(e[ds]?|ers?|ing)\b"

But this replicates the next [au]fa

\b([Mm])an(?:[ai]fac?|[au]{1,2}fa)[ct]ur(e[ds]?|ers?|ing)\b"

We can include missing vowel "Manfacture"

\b([Mm])an(?:[ai]fac?|[au]{0,2}fa)[ct]ur(e[ds]?|ers?|ing)\b"

And multiples giving a simpler (looking) rule

\b([Mm])an(?:[ai]fac?|[au]*fa)[ct]ur(e[ds]?|ers?|ing)\b"

Note though that we are still not matching everything we probably want because of the [ct].

\b([Mm])an(?:[ai]|[au]*)fa[ct]{1,3}ur(e[ds]?|ers?|ing)\b"

This fixes that problem. But the (?:[ai]|[au]*) is notw a little redundant

\b([Mm])an(?:[ai]|[au]*)fa[ct]{1,3}ur(e[ds]?|ers?|ing)\b"

This deals with that problem without, probably matching stuff we don't want.

\b([Mm])an[aiu]*fa[ct]{1,3}ur(e[ds]?|ers?|ing)\b"

Rich Farmbrough, 02:06, 2 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]

None of those work on Manuafracture. Maybe it's the regex tester in AWB? Anyway, have to sleep. Will check through this another time. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 02:16, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
\b([Mm])an[aiu]*fr?a[ct]{1,3}ur(e[ds]?|ers?|ing)\b" Rich Farmbrough, 02:28, 2 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]
  • The early rules above say [ai] but it should say [aiu], then they work on the start 'manauf'.
  • I can NOT use the * as AWB/T says "Don't use the quantifiers * and + with anything but a single character. Avoid them entirely, if possible, as they put extra strain on CPU and are apt to do other than what you expect."
  • I'm not sure what the {1,3} (1-of-3) applies to. Does that mean 1-of-3 of the 'fact' or just the 'ct'? I'm confused by that at the moment.
  • Here is my first revised version \b([Mm])an(?:[aiu]{0,2}fr?ac?|[ua]fa|[au]fa)[ct]ur(e[ds]?|ers?|ing)\b
  • Next I'm going to add (Re) at the beginning and check (in a dictionary) for different possible endings. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 13:11, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Added the start (Re) and (Un) and ending able/ability, plus "man'o'facture" is covered.
  • \b(M|m|[Rr]em|[Uu]nm)[au]n(?:[aiou]{0,2}fr?ac?|[ua]fa|[au]fa)[ct]ur(e[ds]?|ers?|ing|e?able|e?ability)\b Regards, SunCreator (talk) 14:47, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • OK that's cool.
  • {x,y} matches x, x+1 ... y-1, y occurrences.
  • [au] and [ua] are the same, they both match a or u.
  • The instructions about not using * and + are sage, but not wholly valid. Certainly the CPU comment depends very much on the actual regex. Consider for example vowel matching "[aeiou]+" vs "[aeiou]{1,2}". (Maybe [eaiou]+ for speed...) This will generally be matching a one vowel string, and sometimes 2 - there will be almost no 3 vowel matches. Let us suppose that 25% of characters are vowels and that we have a uniform random distribution of letters.


No vowels % Operations method 1 [aeiou]+ Operations method 2 [aeiou]{1,2} Expected cost of using method 2
0 75 match (1) check count (1) match (1) .75 * 1
1 17.25 match (2) check count (2) match (2) .1725 * 2
2 4.57 match (3) check count (3) match (3) .0457 * 3
3 1.26 match (4) check count (3) match (3) .0126 * 0.5
4 0.32 match (5) check count (3) match (3) - .0032 *2
As you can see not until we get to four vowels in a row does the {1,2} method become cheaper than + — and that is at the expense of missing 6.25 % of the items we want to match.
  • I would replace (M|m|[Rr]em|[Uu]nm) with ((?:[Uu]n|[Rr]e|)[Mm]) - this is - to me at least - clearer in function. It does of course match UnM and leave it mis-capitaliɀed
  • [ct]ur only matches "cur" or "tur" - it is relying on the "c?" of "fr?ac?" to match "factur".
All the best, Rich Farmbrough, 16:33, 2 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Thanks! I don't understand the CPU maths and at this point it is of little use on rocking the previous consensus. It's really cool what you've done with the rule. It's given me a lot more understanding and ability when using regex. Regards, SunCreator (talk) 23:23, 3 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Talk:Institute of Mathematics and its Applications#Merging in The Institute of Mathematics and its Applications

You may be interested in Talk:Institute of Mathematics and its Applications#Merging in The Institute of Mathematics and its Applications, which relates to merging a stub you started a while ago. Yaris678 (talk) 14:18, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks, commented there. Rich Farmbrough, 16:01, 2 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]

The Tea Leaf - Issue Five

Stop by for a tasty glass of wiki-iced tea at the Teahouse, today!

Hi! Welcome to the fifth edition of The Tea Leaf, the official newsletter of the Teahouse!

  • Guest activity increased in July. Questions are up from an average of 36 per week in June to 43 per week in July, and guest profile creation has also increased. This is likely a result of the automatic invite experiments we started near the end of month, which seeks to lessen the burden on hosts and other volunteers who manually invite editors. During the last week of July, questions doubled in the Teahouse! (But don't let that deter you from inviting editors to the Teahouse, please, there are still lots of new editors who haven't found Teahouse yet.)
  • More Teahouse hosts than ever. We had 12 new hosts sign up to participate at the Teahouse! We now have 35 hosts volunteering at the Teahouse. Feel free to stop by and see them all here.
  • Phase two update: Host sprint. In August, the Teahouse team plans to improve the host experience by developing a simpler new-host creation process, a better way of surfacing active hosts, and a host lounge renovation. Take a look at the plan and weigh in here.
  • New Teahouse guest barnstar is awarded to first recipient: Charlie Inks. Using the Teahouse barnstar designed by Heatherawalls, hosts hajatvrc and Ryan Vesey created the new Teahouse Guest Barnstar. The first recipient is Charlie Inks, for her boldness in asking questions at the Teahouse. Check out the award in action here.
  • Teahouse was a hot topic at Wikimania! The Teahouse was a hot topic at Wikimania this past month, where editor retention and interface design was heavily discussed. Sarah and Jonathan presented the Teahouse during the Wikimedia Fellowships panel. Slides can be viewed here. A lunch was also held at Wikimania for Teahouse hosts.

As always, thanks for supporting the Teahouse project! Stop by and visit us today!

You are receiving The Tea Leaf after expressing interest or participating in the Teahouse! To remove yourself from receiving future newsletters, please remove your username here. Sarah (talk) 08:35, 4 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ibid

In this edit you use name = {{{name|Ibid}}}. Why not use simply name = Ibid, as I have seen it done in (so far) all other maintenance templates? Debresser (talk) 00:18, 5 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It allows wrapper templates to pass their names, using the same paradigm. Rich Farmbrough, 01:29, 5 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]

Antonio Diego Voci

Hello, I'd just like to thank you for the improvements you're in the process of making to the Antonio Diego Voci page, they are very helpful. Is there any way I can be of assistance to you? Ahjkl67435 (talk) 16:11, 5 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost: 06 August 2012

Talkback

Hello, Rich Farmbrough. You have new messages at Wikipedia_talk:Teahouse/Host_lounge.
Message added 23:38, 7 August 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

SarahStierch (talk) 23:38, 7 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Templates and sockpuppets and categories and if tests and OH GOD THE HORROR

Hi Rich, I ended up staring at Template:Sockpuppet category for a while (for something minor and already fixed), and I think I spied an error in the template. Check out this diff in Template:Sockpuppet category/sandbox please and let me know if you agree. From what I can tell, namespace errors are being silently unreported because the if tests are not closing properly. The closing brace in that diff change should fix it but I'm not confident enough to just slap on a {{protected edit}} request and call it a day. BigNate37(T) 19:49, 9 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You were right about the error. I changed the sandbox and made a testcase. I think that is better, I used classic code indentation, so it need a little testing, but looks OK. Rich Farmbrough, 23:03, 9 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]

Wiki-work

Cheers Rich, I think you should have an email, let me know if this is not the case. Tommy Pinball (talk) 20:34, 10 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Skip if contains .{2000}

Greetings Rich, I just wanted to clarify something. The Skip if contains .{2000} statement you made. Is that greater than 2000 or less than? Also, does that include things like infoboxes and categories? I assume it does but not sure. Kumioko (talk) 16:15, 11 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It would match 2000 or more characters. I would assume a hard and fast rule would not be needed, but you could craft a regex to do a reasonable job of excluding infoboxes and categories, with a little work. Rich Farmbrough, 16:55, 11 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Thanks, is there a way to say something like 0 to 500? Its fine if it includes categories and templates that small, it'll still be a stub. Kumioko (talk) 17:33, 11 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, .{0,500} Rich Farmbrough, 17:45, 11 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Awesome thanks I'll give that a go. Kumioko (talk) 19:34, 11 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think I am doing it right. When I put in .{0,1000} under doesn't contain (assuming that anything with more would still have that many) with the regex box checked, it still doesn't catch some that I know are less than 1000 characters. Is there something else that I am missing? Kumioko (talk) 20:49, 11 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
So they are being skipped, what is the reason in the skip field in the log? Rich Farmbrough, 00:50, 12 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]
As much as I have used AWB I didn't even know there was a skip log. Kumioko (talk) 01:00, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
On the right hand side next to the edit summaries is a "Logs" tab, click on Logs and at the bottom is a scroll list of article you've skipped for the session with a skip reason column. Regards, Sun Creator(talk) 01:05, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well what do ya know there it is..lol. Learn something new everyday. Kumioko (talk) 01:13, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The message on the log says "Page does not contain .{2000}". Kumioko (talk) 02:41, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

But the skip is supposed to be set to .{0,1000} .... Rich Farmbrough, 03:01, 12 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Makes sure the Regex is ticked in the skip tab. Regards, Sun Creator(talk) 03:05, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've tried it a few different ways. Contains/Not contains, with and without regex, .{2000}, .{0,2000} and various other combinations. I just can't seem to get it to work right. Kumioko (talk) 03:07, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
OK I'll try to test tomorrow. Rich Farmbrough, 03:46, 12 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Problem with ".{0,1000}" is that it matches everything as every article has at least 0 characters. What I got to work was Skip - If contains .{1000,} this will skip if there is more then 1000 characters in the none excluded part of an article. If instead you want smaller articles skipped just put and tick it in the not contains option instead. Regards, Sun Creator(talk) 12:17, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes indeed. That's where we started I think and we got lost on the highways and byways of the regex. Rich Farmbrough, 19:52, 12 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Thanks guys its working now. I restarted my computer and then reopened AWB and it started working. Something must have been locked up somewhere. Kumioko (talk) 23:20, 12 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you

Hello Mr. Farmbrough,

Thank you for your time and expertise in clean-up execution on Antonio Diego Voci. We have addressed, with your assistance both issues of capital letter inconsistency as well as toning down of bolding. Plus we restored the two 1957 paintings that inadvertently disappeared upon your edit. By the way, “clientage” is a legitimate word, “a body of clients; clientele; customers, but we like your word “patrons”. And in “USA” we write “color” without the “u”; and “traveling” without the extra “l”. Also we had not realized Wikipedia used the European system for dates, the day first then the month, which we actually prefer.

Are you British? Even though the USA is no longer a colony, we celebrated the Queen’s birthday right along with you folks on Facebook and Twitter. And watched the Olympics every day. London is probably now suffering aftershock.Ahjkl67435 (talk) 17:58, 13 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You are welcome. The regional spelling does not greatly matter either way - I would not object if you change it. I used the date system associated with Europe, since Voci is associated primarily with Europe - Wikipedia uses both systems, but consistently within articles, and subject to geographic usage. It is best to avoid obscure words, all else being equal, so that the articles can be read by the widest possible audience. I think the article is interesting, and, although I can see parts might be objected to by some editors, useful.
Indeed I am British, although I was in the US for the opening ceremonies... Rich Farmbrough, 18:48, 13 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]

Respond

Hello, Rich Farmbrough. Please, listen to me. I need you help. Please, help me. I am at the very end of good faith, so please, please, read this and this, following your logical conclusion. Help me to understand am i wrong, or something else is wrong here. Dont ignore me, i saw that you are very neutral and quite familial with wiki rules. --WhiteWriterspeaks 20:01, 13 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

TfD for new Cite_web/smart

I am contacting you, per wp:CANVAS, after contacting mostly negative or neutral editors, as a user known to be supportive about quick, fast citation templates, in considering the latest TfD discussion. In this case, the template {Cite_web/smart} is finally the big upgrade to entirely replace {Cite_web} with a faster version that carefully checks the parameters to only invoke {Citation/core} for any rare parameters, else quickly formats a cite plus COinS data. Now, {cite_web/smart} is a massive extension of your October 2011 Template:Cite_book_quick, as a hybrid with {cite_web} and new {cite_quick}. See TfD of 11 August 2012:

This notice is only an FYI, as announcing the discussion under way. Feel free to oppose the template, support the template, ignore the discussion, or even delete this message. The TfD just started, so there should be, at least, 4 days (18 August 2012) to consider the issues.

With that formality stated, I want to thank you for creating Template:Cite_book_quick, which inspired me to create a hybrid template that handles all {cite_web} parameters, only invoking {Citation/core} to format the rare parameters. Currently, major article "Arab Spring" hits the include-size limit, but {cite_web/smart} could reduce the template expansion size in all 1.1 million articles using {cite_web}. -Wikid77 (talk) Wikid77 (talk) 06:13, 14 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost: 13 August 2012

Burton's Biscuit Company - changes

Hi Rich, I noticed you have been changing some text on the Burton's article. When amendment you made that is incorrect is Cadbury brands licensed by Cadbury UK. This should really state Kraft Foods as the official owner of the brand. Please can you undo. Thanks Mrs biskit (talk) 15:14, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Nomination for deletion of Template:Citation needed cheap

Template:Citation needed cheap has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. -- Beland (talk) 14:49, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks very much!

Thank you very, very much for the fantastic list of orphaned American artists you generated for me - that's really some service! I'd love to know more about how you managed it but perhaps will wait until I've done some reading and have sensible questions to ask. In the meantime, many thanks! Mfbjr (talk) 15:28, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Helping out at The Teahouse

Thanks a bunch for helping out at the Teahouse. Many of your answers have been very helpful! One little thing, since many new users are asking question, some may not know about watchlists or realize they need to check in once in a while to see if their question is answered. For that reason, when you do answer a question, please use the talkback template located here on their user talk page so that they know their question has been answered. There is also a script which you can install that will leave the template automatically when you answer a question. Toodles. --Jayron32 01:17, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for stalking but whats the script and does it work outside the teahouse? Kumioko (talk) 01:31, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
There are a few different scripts located here and they only work in the Teahouse; though someone with some coding skill (read: not me) could likely adapt them for other purposes. There are likely also other scripts in existence which do what you want, but the teahouse scripts only do teahouse tasks. --Jayron32 01:38, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation

Thank you for your recent submission to Articles for Creation. Your article submission has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. Please view your submission to see the comments left by the reviewer. You are welcome to edit the submission to address the issues raised, and resubmit once you feel they have been resolved.
Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia! Mdann52 (talk) 05:15, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Er... lol? Rich Farmbrough, 16:07, 21 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]

The Signpost: 20 August 2012

Moving Burma to Myanmar - ongoing poll

This is to let you know that an ongoing poll is taking place to move Burma to Myanmar. I know this happened just recently but no administrator would close these frequent rm's down, so here we go again. This note is going out to wikipedia members who have participated in Burma/Myanmar name changing polls in the past. It does not include banned members nor those with only ip addresses. Thank you. Fyunck(click) (talk) 04:59, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Upgrading status of The Little Sister

Hi Rich. I noticed you changed The Little Sister from Stub to Start. I'm a new editor so still not familiar with the review process. I've made a lot of changes to The Little Sister over the last month and I put it in the queue for a formal re-assessment on the Project Novels/Assessment page. When I checked that page it seems to me that the assessment hasn't been completed yet (there is still one page ahead of Little Sister and its not struck through yet). I'm assuming you just noticed the amazingly awesome work I've done ;) and made the change in status? I wanted to check because the text (I assume from a template) that says the page has no references is still there and it clearly does have references now. Can/should I just remove that and if so can you give me a hint how? Or should I just wait for the assessment and let them remove the bit about no references? thanks! Mdebellis (talk) 20:30, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, while some of the projects have formal assessment systems, I felt sure that promotion to at least "Start" was warranted, after seeing your comments at Teahouse. Yes you can/should remove the unreferenced tag, except that I have done that. In general these tags should be removed when they have served their purpose, but naturally people are a little reticent to do so. Rich Farmbrough, 21:55, 22 August 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Great. Thanks! Mdebellis (talk) 22:03, 22 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Talkback

Hello, Rich Farmbrough. You have new messages at Wikipedia_talk:Teahouse/Host_lounge.
Message added 06:23, 24 August 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

SarahStierch (talk) 06:23, 24 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

{{WikiProject OWS}}

You recently moved this template to {{WikiProject Occupy Wall Street}}. While that did make it clearer what it was about, I've reverted it back to the current title, as the name of the WikiProject actually is WikiProject OWS (WP:WikiProject Occupy Wall Street is a redlink). I'm inclined to think that WikiProject should probably be renamed, but as long as it's under that title, the accompanying template should be too. Robofish (talk) 16:13, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

An invitation for you!

Hello, Rich Farmbrough. We are in the early stages of initiating a project to plan, gain consensus on, and coordinate adding a feature to the main page wherein an article will be listed daily for collaborative improvement. If you're interested in participating, please add your name to the list of members.

 Happy editing! AutomaticStrikeout 21:15, 25 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback requested at the Village Pump

Hi Rich. I have a proposal at the village pump about introducing a color scheme to the text editor so it is easier for newer editors to differentiate between different kinds of syntax, particularly references. I'd welcome your feedback at the village pump. I, Jethrobot drop me a line (note: not a bot!) 01:20, 27 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ping

Hi. In case you're not watching meta: m:Talk:Wikimedia Medicine#Conference call. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 00:31, 28 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Signpost: 27 August 2012

Trucks Act and coal scrip

Many thanks for the comment on the coal scrip article. I agree, 100%, yes, the truck acts were an outcome. My only contention, as one who has been through the usage of scrip first hand, is to define it and then, yes, by all means, show the social issues associated wih its use. I wanted to present a pro and con synopsis and will of course keep this as neutral as possible.Coal town guy (talk) 14:27, 30 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

save police time, shoot yourself

I certainly didn't mean for it to sound like that. I think if he had responded at ANI with an "oh, I did not kno that, i will not do it again" it would have died down. It's the "I'm doing nothing wrong" response, followed by the "they're all out to get me" defense that doesn't help. I only followed up on the hand in the tools thing because he doesn't use them a right lot, and he's actually said somewhere before this that he's not finding adminning fun. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 14:58, 30 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

A kitten for you!

Thank you for for translating the Toon Dupuis article. Another red link disappeared on the Englisch Wikipedia.

Lotje (talk) 05:40, 1 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Soft Kitty! Rich Farmbrough, 21:08, 1 September 2012 (UTC).[reply]

Do you know Dutch or is the translators good enough to work out the text? Regards, Sun Creator(talk) 23:29, 1 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Translator is good enough, for an article like that. In fact you can quickly learn a few words, and some are very similar to English anyway. The risk is false friends of course. Rich Farmbrough, 16:37, 2 September 2012 (UTC).[reply]
I thought grammar maybe difficult. How about the reverse creating a foreign language article from the English one? Regards, Sun Creator(talk) 17:04, 2 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I tried that, got zapped. But I have created Swahili articles form scratch, by example, and with help. Rich Farmbrough, 18:12, 2 September 2012 (UTC).[reply]

Template:Portal talk

Heyo. I'm looking at Portal talk:Contents/Portals where {{Portal talk}} is included, and wondering how to edit that template to: "remove the horizontal line between the list of Archives and the searchbox". The table code mixed with parser functions is hurting my brain; can you easily fix? If not, I'll nag someone else. Ta! :) -- Quiddity (talk) 03:33, 2 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Like this?
Rich Farmbrough, 16:45, 2 September 2012 (UTC).[reply]
Ahh, nope, the horizontal rule under the words "Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4", but now that I'm less distracted, I could see and have just removed the offending css... >.< Sorry, and thanks anyway! -- Quiddity (talk) 19:09, 2 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Cool. Rich Farmbrough, 20:23, 2 September 2012 (UTC).[reply]

The Signpost: 03 September 2012

The Olive Branch: A Dispute Resolution Newsletter (Issue #1)

Welcome to the first edition of The Olive Branch. This will be a place to semi-regularly update editors active in dispute resolution (DR) about some of the most important issues, advances, and challenges in the area. You were delivered this update because you are active in DR, but if you would prefer not to receive any future mailing, just add your name to this page.

Steven Zhang's Fellowship Slideshow

In this issue:

  • Background: A brief overview of the DR ecosystem.
  • Research: The most recent DR data
  • Survey results: Highlights from Steven Zhang's April 2012 survey
  • Activity analysis: Where DR happened, broken down by the top DR forums
  • DR Noticeboard comparison: How the newest DR forum has progressed between May and August
  • Discussion update: Checking up on the Wikiquette Assistance close debate
  • Proposal: It's time to close the Geopolitical, ethnic, and religious conflicts noticeboard. Agree or disagree?
Read the entire first edition of The Olive Branch -->

--The Olive Branch 19:25, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

The Tea Leaf - Issue Six

Hi! Welcome to the sixth edition of The Tea Leaf, the official newsletter of the Teahouse!

  • Teahouse serves over 700 new editors in six months on Wikipedia! Since February 27, 741 new editors have participated at the Teahouse. The Q&A board and the guest intro pages are more active than ever.
A lovely little teahouse nestled in Germany from Wiki Loves Monuments
  • Automatic invites are doing the trick: 50% more new editors visiting each week. Ever since HostBot's automated invite trial phase began we've seen a boost in new editor participation. Automating a baseline set of invitations also allows Teahouse hosts to focus on serving hot cups of help to guests, instead of spending countless hours inviting.
  • Guests to the Teahouse continue to edit more & interact more with other community members than non-Teahouse guests according to six month metrics. Teahouse guests make more than twice the article edits and edit more talk pages than other new editors.
  • New host process implemented which encourages anyone to get started as a Teahouse host in a few easy steps. Stop by the hosts page and become a Teahouse host today!
  • Host lounge renovations nearing completion. Working closely with Teahouse hosts, we've made some major renovations to the Teahouse Host Lounge - the main hangout and resource space for hosts. Learn more about the improvements here.

As always, thanks for supporting the Teahouse project! Stop by and visit us today!

You are receiving The Tea Leaf after expressing interest or participating in the Teahouse! To remove yourself from receiving future newsletters, please remove your username here. EdwardsBot (talk) 00:10, 6 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Talkback

Hello, Rich Farmbrough. You have new messages at Wikipedia_talk:Teahouse/Host_lounge.
Message added 22:45, 6 September 2012 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

SarahStierch (talk) 22:45, 6 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Please change your script to no longer remove spaces from section headers.

Whatever script you are using, it is still removing spaces from headers, e.g. [4][5][6][7]. These articles had before your edit a uniform system of section header spacing (with spaces between the "==" and the section title on both sides), but now have some section headers with spaces and some without. This violates the main section of the Wikipedia:Manual of Style, specifically "An overriding principle is that style and formatting choices should be consistent within an article. Where more than one style is acceptable, editors should not change an article from one of those styles to another without a substantial reason". Please refrain from making these or similar changes. Fram (talk) 08:19, 10 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • I don't see evidence of a script Fram. You are in error. If it were a script, then it would have removed the spaces in the "== Application of microcredit ==", "== History ==", "== Application of microcredit ==", "=== Struggling members program ==="...in fact EVERY section of Grameen Bank but the one you are complaining about that he changed. Can we please drop the whitespace arguments, drop the sticks, and walk away? Please? --Hammersoft (talk) 14:43, 10 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • No. Can we please stop the whitespace changes instead? Do you really believe that Rich farmbrough is patiently (and pointlessly) removing all the spaces at the end of bulleted entries and paragraphs by hand[8][9]? It certainly gives the strong impression of being script-based. Fram (talk) 06:42, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      • Fram, I've already shown you how it is not a script, but your sure it is and are going after him for it...over whitespaces. This is absurd. Drop it. Drop the stick and walk away. If there really is a problem here worth the time, someone else will come along to address it. --Hammersoft (talk) 00:50, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
        • Yeah, that theory has been used in the previous discussions a lot, even though it has been shown to be incorrect time and time again. Fram (talk) 07:00, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
          • I have to be honest Fram, these edits don't really bother me. Frankly, what bothers me more is that where Rich formerly did thousands and thousands of edits per day between he and his bots, he now does 20 - 50 at most. Additionally, since none of the other bot operators want to do most of these tasks (such as the WikiProject Watchlists) it means they won't get done at all. So for me, even if he did do a few minor edits that you and a couple of other editors got him automation banned for, the pedia has been harmed far far more by his lack of edits and by your crusade against minor edits that it is by doing them. I personally wish you would just find something else to do. Continuously hounding an editor over a few minor edits is, IMO, really really bad conduct for an Admin. Personally I think its stupid and I find it also rather stupid that I can't be trusted with the admin bit but some admins like you are allowed to hound other editors without interferance over things that are of such insignificance that they are nearly meaningless. Kumioko (talk) 11:11, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
            • Still, it is a bit absurd to have an editor (Rich) to remove whitespace within headers while bots add them (even in archives). This is an endless war with no winners. -- Magioladitis (talk) 11:28, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
            • To clarify: I am not against small edits as soon as we have a concrete where we want to go. -- Magioladitis (talk) 11:47, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
            • Kumioko, he was banned for the many errors in his edits (and a number of other issues e.g. about dealing with those errors), not for the minor edits as such. Any reason why he continues making the same edits that go against the guidelines now that he is only editing manually? If it is not caused by a script, then it isn't carelessness but repeated and deliberate editing against guidelines. Fram (talk) 12:08, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Fram, I was involved in that case and I am very familiar with what was said. Your right to a point but the vast majority of arguments and discussions were based on minor edits. I have seen no less than a dozen editors in the last week alone doing edits that are the same or worse than these and I didn't see your name on even one of their talk pages so it leads me to the belief that you are hounding. When its nearly always the same editor showing up on the same paeg complaining about what seems to be every edit an editor makes, it appears like hounding. Also, IMO, if he wants to use his time removing minor errors, spaces, etc. fine, its his time. I also don't think he is going against guidelines in doing these by the way. There are some rules and suggestions that automated tools not be used in this way but as far as I know very little about doing it manually. So your argument that he is violating guidelines isn't really accurate outside that you don't like it.
  • @Magioladitis, I understand what you are saying but here is my take on that. If the bots are adding them, then the bots should be changed to not add them. The bots should not be adding or removing these as doing either at this point in time, seems to be against general concensus. We should not be telling one editor that they are violating the policy by removing spaces when we allow or look the other way when a bot is adding them. That sort of wishy washiness is what gets people frustrated with the rules and causes people to leave.
  • @Both, We should not be enforcing the rules when we feel like it or when we agree with it and looking the other way when we don't. If the policy is there then we should be enforcing it evenly, not targetting certain editors because one or 2 editors has a bone to pick or wants to make a name for themselves. This is how I have always felt but yet many admins pick an extreme view and then try and railroad editors into their way of doing things. It happens a lot, I see it all the time. But we let them, because they are admins, they are "trusted" and the rest of us are just scummy regular editors and have no rights, trust, respect or say in what goes on. Then they take the productive editors rights away (like Rich), push them out and then run around wondering why the edit numbers are down and less people are editing when it was their fault they left because they are keeping the wrong people. Since January I have seen nearly 2 dozen productive editors get the boot or quite in frustration because if this kind of nonsense and its time it stops but I am powerless to do anything about it because I am just as hated because I want the ones in power to do the right thing and most of them it seems have their own agendas rather than building an encyclopedia. These days its more like Politipedia. Sorry that was a bit of a rant but I find it extremely frustrating that the community tells me I cannot be trusted and then they let admins go rogue like Fram, CBM and others and do whatever they want but I am the untrustworthy jerk. Kumioko (talk) 13:29, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Kumioko, have you actually compared the MOS I linked above with the edits Rich Farmbrough makes? This has nothing to do with what is allowed manually but not by automation. This type of edits, i.e. adding or removing whitespace from (some) headers when another style was used in the article, isn't allowed at all. It is also utterly pointless. It is not difficult to stop making such edits. So can you give one good reason why he continued making them anyway? Fram (talk) 14:14, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed interaction ban

Fram & Rich, I am asking you both to voluntarily agree to an interaction ban between the two of you. This means you stop posting to each other's talk pages, you stop following each other's edits, and you stop entering into discussions where you have no vested interest and the other party is involved. Please indicate your acceptance or refusal. If refusal, please indicate why. --Hammersoft (talk) 13:25, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I agree and I have asked for that multiple times in the past but Fram feels its his perosnal mission to be the minor edit police and refuses to drop the sticks and let it go. That's what makes me so angry about the whole situation is that here you have this Admin hounding another editor and no one can or will do anything about it. If it is such a major problem then why is it always the same 2 or 3 editors? If its a major problem with these edits he should have people lining up to complain. And we as editors and Wikipedians will complain if something bothers us. Kumioko (talk) 13:48, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No. If Rich doesn't want me posting here, he can just follow our policies and guidelines instead of continously ignoring and violating them, even after they have been pointed out and explained multiple times. If you two don't want me posting here, start mentoring Rich Farmbrough, try to get him to him follow our guidelines and policies, see to it that he edits like every editor is supposed to. And Kumioko, please drop the hyperbole. If it was such a major problem, we would be at ANI or at ArbCom enforcement. I am here because it is a real, recurring, but relatively minor problem, and because I am one of the editors who is aware that this is one established editor whose edits need scrutiny, though thanks to the restrictions less than it used to be. Closing my eyes and ignoring problems because I have noticed too many other similar problems in the past is not helping things. If I would have been consistenly (instead of occasionally) wrong in my remarks and in the errors, problems, or policy violations I pointed out, then there would be a case for an interaction ban. If I was opposing Rich Farmbrough at all kinds of discussions, just for the sake of it, then there would be a case for an interaction ban. But asking for an interaction ban just because I do what I am supposed to do, is not helpful in the least, and not very convincing coming from two heavily involved editors. Fram (talk) 14:07, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • If there is an editor who is heavily involved, it is you Fram. You are the #3 editor to this talk page. Look, you are not Rich's personal mentor. You are not an assigned police officer whose beat it is to follow Rich. You've been asked to drop the sticks and walk away, but apparently still feel it is your duty to police his actions. Why? Is there no other person on the project who can police his actions? Are you the sole person who has the time, tools, and willingness to police his actions? Why is it necessary that this falls to you? --Hammersoft (talk) 14:20, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • No, I a not his mentor. But perhaps it would be better if one of you would be, instead of continuing with the same very tired defense. Like I said above, I would be more than happy if you (plural) took over and kept an eye on his contributions, and recognized the problems with it as well as the value. Perhaps you will have more success in getting him to change his habits without needing long discussions, blocks, ANI and ArbCom cases, restrictions, ... Continued shooting of the messenger has failed as a tactic every time until now, and hasn't helped Rich Farmbrough one bit. Trying something different instead might work, but I see very little willingness from either of you to try this. Fram (talk) 14:36, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      • Fram, I am not shooting you. Neither am I attempting some tired defense. Thank you. My point is you seem very focused on trying to change Rich, and unwilling to let go and walk away. If there is real damage occurring to the project, somebody else will step forward to address the issue. This does not require you. As Jenks24 notes below, it is time to disengage. --Hammersoft (talk) 15:10, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • +1. I've tried not to comment here recently, but this keeps popping up on my watchlist. Fram, please disengage. You're doing more harm than good and there are literally thousands of other areas of the project where your time would be better spent. Jenks24 (talk) 14:57, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Just as a point of order, I want to make sure everyone here is aware that a user talk page discussion like this cannot compel something like an interaction ban. One can certainly be suggested, and if the parties agree to it implemented (because if they both agree to lay off, no need to get community approval for it), but if the party or parties don't agree here, if you want to try to compel such a ban you'll need to take it to AN(I). A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 15:36, 13 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • I offered this solution years ago, I have begged, implored, requested, cajoled, encouraged, even become slightly incivil in my attempts to persuade Fram to disengage. And he has been asked by numerous people, in this and at least one other of his long running series of disputes all with the same author. I don't think anything will persuade him which is why I have given up trying. If however, someone else thinks he will listen to reason, they are certainly welcome to try. And of course should he give such an undertaking he is a perfect liberty to break it at any time, it is not binding - even within Wikipedia we tend to elevate our "decisions" far beyond any reason, as if we were playing a gigantic game of gnomic. Rich Farmbrough, 15:44, 13 September 2012 (UTC).[reply]

Note

It has always seemed to me that there is a distinction between someone saying that something is a problem because it has caused them difficulties, and someone saying something is a problem because "it is". It has also seemed that there is a distinction in motivation between someone who happens across an edit and makes a query about it, compared with someone who inspects an editor's work looking for something to complain about, and then issues instructions. The fact that the complainant is wrong is really not too important. The basic problem is one of social ineptitude, in considering that it is either wise, useful or collegial to pursue this line.

While I am, for example, quite aware of what Fram is doing on Wikipedia, I deem it wise to let others deal with it at present, as they probably will in due course. This seems to me eminently sensible. Rich Farmbrough, 14:54, 13 September 2012 (UTC).[reply]

The Signpost: 10 September 2012

AWB bot request for Guyana

Please advise me on what is likely to happen to Wikipedia:Bot requests#AWB bot request for Guyana.

I have been working with another editor, improving the coverage of Guyana in a variety of ways, and now I am looking for some automated help on the templates. Early on I added a somewhat inadequate template, and have realized that a better one should be used. If this request works out, then I will be going on to more complicated ones. I changed the {{photoreq|in=Guyana}} to {{photoreq|people of Guyana}} by hand, because there were so few of them. I never did run that setup you provided for doing that kind of change for Texas.

I am sure you are enjoying your Wikipedia Editor hat. I keep hoping that mine will allow me to recruit a new editor, but so far no luck. If I converse with someone about it and they decide not to go forward even though they admit that the use it frequently, I do suggest that they donate. User Smallbones and I may organize an event here in Philadelphia, but for my own part, not likely before November 7. --DThomsen8 (talk) 01:14, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I was of course delighted with the hat! As far as the bot request goes, they seem to be picked up in waves, and ignored in waves. It was indeed trying to clear this backlog that caused a little local difficulty. Nonetheless this is a simple request, and if someone does not pick it up before it archives, I suggest you simply re-submit it. Alternatively I could put together an AWB setting s file for you. Rich Farmbrough, 15:17, 13 September 2012 (UTC).[reply]
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