Wikipedia:Teahouse

Eman235, a Teahouse host

Welcome to the Teahouse!
Your go-to place for friendly help with using and editing Wikipedia.

Ask a question

Question forumMeet your hostsArticles to improveBecome a host

New to Wikipedia? See our tutorial for new editors or introduction to contributing page.
Note: Newer questions appear at the bottom of the Teahouse. Completed questions are archived within 2-3 days.

Help Wikipedia

How to Handle vandalism ?

A long term inactive user who has been already warned against vandalism by an administrator such asthis one has gone inactive has become active again and has vandalised the page seeman by making large content removal which has sufficient souce such as this one and this one without mentioning any reason. It is seems he is ideological adherent to NTK party run by seeman and is making this kind of POV pushing which can be inferred from his edit such as this one.In light of this how to approach this incidence? JagatRaxak (talk) 12:18, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi JagatRaxak, good catch there! Normally it should be pretty easy to revert vandalism, although idk if it is available on mobile. At least on desktop, there is an "undo" button you can click when checking the article's history, which will revert the edit in question. This didn't work here though because of conflicting newer edits, so I manually pasted the removed text and added it back in.

A few notes though: Obviously, please first make sure that it is actual vandalism you are seeing. Sometimes, people edit in good faith, but in a way that their edits look like vandalism. Thus, completely undoing edits may sometimes not be optimal. Also, for articles about living persons extra care is needed, because controversial material might have been removed because it is slanderous. But you are right, in this case it was definitely a (politically motivated?) act of vandalism as the claims were sourced, and the sources seem trustworthy.

And lastly, please note that new questions should go to the bottom of the Teahouse page, otherwise they might be overlooked! Best just use the button provided at the top of the page, that handles that automatically ;)

--LordPeterII (talk) 19:38, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

How to make new questions to the bottom? it got automatically into top bcoz I dont know how to put it bottom.JagatRaxak (talk) 06:16, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

JagatRaxak, click either the big blue 'Ask a question' button or the 'New section' button. They will automatically start at the bottom. Giraffer (munch) 06:25, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

To find articles to be removed

How to delete some articles ? Iitianeditor (talk) 18:20, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Iitianeditor, welcome to the Teahouse. It's not clear why you wanted to delete articles, as deletion are nominated purely because it is not worthy of inclusion in Wikipedia. Only administrators can delete it, but there must be a consensus. You can engage in deletion nominations at WP:AFD, but before you do so, kindly understand Wikipedia's notability, encyclopedic tone, citations, etc. guidelines as well as WP:DEL to familiarize yourself with deletion and inclusion. It's best for you to edit before participating in a nomination. GeraldWL ✉ 18:35, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

(edit conflict)@Iitianeditor: Before looking for articles to delete, I recommend you get a good sense of what determines if an article should be kept or not. Visit the Articles for deletion page and read some of the nominations. Look how the discussions are voted on and eventually closed. When you are comfortable, you can vote yourself. Then you can look for articles that are tagged for notability and see if they can be improved or nominated for deletion. Good luck and thanks for trying to improve the encyclopedia! TimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)}

@Iitianeditor: We are all here to build an encyclopaedia, not to dismantle it. As a completely new editor here, finding articles to delete is above your paygrade right now. Please learn to create good content first, and understand the policies and principles that content is based upon; only in that way will you understand when other content is bad. I would also just add that we do not vote on article deletion; we justify deletion or retention in a 'Deletion discussion, based purely upon our policies of what is and is not notable. Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 19:08, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Nick Moyes I also want to help build the encyclopedia, but according to guidelines. non-encyclopedic content should be removed. I've read the guidelines and I believe I've come across a few articles that should be deleted. If I'm mistaken, I'd be happy to learn and improve.Iitianeditor (talk) 17:29, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Hey Iitianeditor, I see you've already started some AfD discussions: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hassanikhel, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shoaib Akram and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tariq Hafeez. And it's not as if the responses were walls of "keep" vote-nots. So well done, I guess. What puzzles me is that the heading above your question is "To find articles to be removed": you should not actively go looking for articles to delete. Instead, you find deletion candidates while editing normally. Also, please make sure you have WP:alternatives to deletion in your mind: deletion is a last resort. Kind regards from PJvanMill)talk( 22:52, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

PJvanMill sure, i'll also try to handle some pages in another way.I was just sure from my side that those pages should be removed according to the wikipedia policies.Iitianeditor (talk) 17:22, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Should this page be deleted?

Hello. I am new to Wikipedia and came across this page Nicholas P. Clark where some of the information seemed a bit off. I tried fixing it as best as I could and looked for additional references, but could not find much. Of the four remaining references, two are clearly associated to the subject of the article, one is from a Thrive Global (which I understand is blacklisted here), and one seems to be a trivial mention. Khwabeeda (talk) 15:50, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Khwabeeda, agreed. I'll check the sources; if it is off as you said, I'll probably have it tagged. GeraldWL ✉ 16:40, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Hello, Khwabeeda and welcome to the Teahouse. Our notability criteria for cycling sports people can be found here. I'm not too familiar with all the racing terms involved (such as UCI World Tours), but at first glance he looks like he might meet them - provided his participation in major events is supported with reliable sources to confirm them. Hope this little contribution helps a bit. Nick Moyes (talk) 16:44, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Nick Moyes Thanks for the welcome! I looked for references, but couldn't find any reliable ones. Shouldn't the page be moved to draft space until additional references are found and the page is fixed? ----

@Khwabeeda: No, I don't think that would be right. The page is almost a year old, so moving to Draftspace at this late stage seems inappropriate, and then could be seen as an easy solution for every page of uncertain validity. I see various options to take this forward. a) Leave as it is; b) Put article up for a deletion discussion; contact page creator and say that's what you're thinking of doing, and ask if they can find better sources; post at WP:WikiProject Cycling to ask for input. Nick Moyes (talk) 22:07, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

@Nick Moyes: I don't see how moving it to draftspace is inappropriate; it's way better than have it flagged for deletion. I don't think leave it as it is is a good thing either; 99% of the claims in the article is unverified. GeraldWL ✉ 09:32, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

@Gerald Waldo Luis: I agree the article seems based on unreliable or non-existent sources. So, if you think that's the case, then a deletion discussion is the right way to go. If you take a look at WP:DRAFTIFY, it explains that moving an article to draftspace should not be used as a backdoor to a deletion discussion. Had this article on Nicholas P. Clark been in put mainspace for just a few weeks, I might have agreed with your idea. But 10 months is a long time, so draftifying doesn't seem appropriate to me. You see, the problem with moving an extant article to draftspace is that it doesn't actually save it from deletion at all. Instead, it might then just sit there for 6 months and then be immediately deleted if nobody has worked on it, but without anyone ever being aware it was moved or having a chance to have a discussion about that deletion proposal, either. No - moving it now would be a very retrograde step, in my opinion. I should admit that I failed to suggest one other sensible option in a) above, which is to tag the article with Template:Notability, which I think I will now go and do. Nick Moyes (talk) 12:35, 22 August 2020 (UTC)  

It's odd that this interview with him, published only a month ago, seems to have been taken down. Cordless Larry (talk) 12:48, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Quite odd. Tried finding an archive, but there's none. GeraldWL ✉ 12:54, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Tooltips

I have been having trouble with tooltips navigation, since I accidentally disabled the click motion for it on User:Hartma9616 (my user page), and I was wondering how it worked. Thank you, Hartma9616 (talk) 18:12, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Hartma9616, what do you mean? That you disabled tooltips altogether? (By which I assume you mean navigation popups) — Yours, Berrely • ^Talk∕_Contribs 18:38, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Yes, It has somehow disabled and I can't revert it. Hartma9616 (talk) 20:17, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

@Hartma9616: Is Navigation Popups (the 6th checkbox) checked at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets? —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 21:38, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for the help, does this edit count for the 'Infobox' part of it, when hovering or clicking over abbreviated text in the infobox like:

John Holiday

​

(m. 2007)​

Hartma9616 (talk) 22:06, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

@Hartma9616: No, those tooltips are actually in the rendered page. I've never run across the problem. A couple more questions to help troubleshoot:

• 1. What browser, O/S, and device (e.g., Firefox/Win10/laptop, iPad, etc.)?
• 2. I'm sure you have, but have you rebooted the device?
• 3. Have you tried a different browser, if available?
• 4. Have you tried if the problem happens while not logged-in to Wikipedia?
• 5. If those don't reveal the problem, if you select the "m." in your example (double-click on it or click-drag), right-click, and choose "View Selection Source" (may be slightly different wording depending on your browser), does the result contain the following near the end? <abbr title="married">m.</abbr>
• 6. This, too, may seem obvious, but when did the problem start? Did it coincide with installation of any browser extensions or apps that you know of?

Someone with more knowledge in this area is, of course, welcome to chime in. The user does not have a custom Wikipedia js or css file (or any sub-pages of their user page, for that matter). —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 23:08, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Yes, the device is an iPad and my browser is Google. I am unable to switch browser(s), I will try rebooting – (a few times). Hartma9616 (talk) 15:13, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

@AlanM1: I did try your steps, can you guide me to find the "View Selection Source," as you explained? Hartma9616 (talk) 15:55, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

@AlanM1: The problem started (as I was tending to edits), the box of which it had the "tooltip controls" (a pop–up information paragraph stating controls/functions etc.... Hartma9616 (talk) 19:04, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

@Hartma9616: Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with the platform. I don't think it's a Wikipedia-specific thing, though. I think it's probably a browser or iPad setting (though I see nothing related in the desktop version of Google Chrome). You might find someone with expertise at WP:RD/C. —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 06:57, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

@AlanM1: The problem was fixed, thank you for guiding me. I appreciate the help. Hartma9616 (talk) 15:29, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia use in class projects?

Is there someone who has knowledge about issues with students/instructors editing Wikipedia as part of assignments? If so, perhaps you can contribute at Wikipedia:Help desk#class assignment using student sandboxes if necessary. It seems like there was someone among our Teahouse hosts that has dealt with this, but I can't recall who it is (maybe Nick Moyes?). —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 02:46, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

@AlanM1: By the time I woke up this murning, it looked like all the salient points have been covered. Nick Moyes (talk) 07:26, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

How do I protect a page and block a user?

How do I protect a page and block a user who edited our page with defamatory information? The protect your page resources (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_guide/Protecting) indicate the first step is to click on the "protect" button at the top of the page but I have yet to find one. Where do I submit a request to block a user? There are tons of resources on why/how but not WHERE. I have two IP addresses but no username for the person who allegedly edited our page. 204.194.207.1 (talk) 03:07, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

An IP cannot protect a page or block a user. You may request a block at WP:AIV (a complicated case may need to go to WP:AIN) and request page protection at WP:RPP. Please note that you do not own a Wikipedia page even if it is about you or your company. See WP:OWN. WP:COI may also apply.

It's useful to actually tell us what article you are talking about. Meters (talk) 03:24, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

I am guessing Lathrop & Gage. An editor vandalized the page two days ago and you reverted that added content. This has not been repeated (yet). I suggest you check the article daily, for a while, and see if the behavior is repeated. Editing of this sort can result in the offending editor being warning in their Talk page, and only if persists, blocked. P.S. It is not "our page". Rather, it is an article about a company which, within reason, and with references, anyone can edit. David notMD (talk) 03:36, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

I looked at the IP's history, but the Lathrop & Gage edit was made by a named account and the IP says he or she does not have a username for the editor making the edits, only IPs. Meters (talk) 04:04, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

The IP file a protection request for Lathrop & Gage, which was denied, as the reviewer did not see persistent vandalism. As an unexpected consequence, the article has now been tagged as perhaps not meeting notability and depending on primary source references, which puts it at risk for an AfD. It survived an AfD in 2014. David notMD (talk) 09:12, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

This is very helpful. Thank you all! 204.194.207.1 (talk) 18:51, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Source of funding

I was wondering that we as Wikipedia seek a donation from the users/visitors instead why not request for a token fee from companies who have Wikipedia pages. As directly or indirectly they are able to advertise their business through a respectable platform. Thoughts? Juliansekar (talk) 09:13, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Juliansekar Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. This isn't really a place to propose new ideas, that would be the Village Pump. However, your idea would go against the very idea of Wikipedia, which is to summarize what independent reliable sources state about article subjects. Wikipedia is not an advertising platform and permission from a subject is not required in order to write about it here. It would be blackmail to approach companies and charge them for something that they have no control over- and removing content from companies that do not pay up would render this a non-neutral encyclopedia. Futhermore, the Wikimedia Foundation's finances are stable and there is no urgent need to change how it raises money. 331dot (talk) 09:19, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Govt. Source?

Hi, I wanted to ask you that is the documents that are released by a government is considered as a reliable source? I saw an admin denying that government papers are authoritarian and cant be considered as a reliable source. Please help? Jenos450 (talk) 09:24, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Jenos450: It depends on the context. If it is truly a govt. source that can verify the claim(s) and can be trusted, I'll say yes. if you are making more claims that the govt source does not say, you would need more sources. I have not used govt sources a lot though, so I can't say much. But at a first glance, it's no problemo. GeraldWL ✉ 09:28, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

@Gerald Waldo Luis: Darn that Bart! —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 11:26, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

@AlanM1: Ha! GeraldWL ✉ 11:44, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

New article

I started to write a page for Jatbula Trail, a long distance walking trail in Australia's Northern Territory. I noticed there's a box that says A page with this title has previously been moved or deleted. I can't work out why the draft was deleted, and I'm not even sure how to contact the user who deleted it to ask. Is it just a case of posting on their Talk page to ask? Canberranone (talk) 09:40, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi Canberranone, welcome to the Teahouse. I cannot see any deletion logs on the article you mentioned. Do you typed in the article name correctly? And I'm sure there is a reason stated at the box. GeraldWL ✉ 10:13, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

@Canberranone: the page Draft:Jatbula Trail was previously deleted by Sphilbrick in 2016 under CSD G13 criteria. See here. You can ask for a copy of the draft via WP:REFUND. Regards, TryKid ^{[dubious – discuss]} 10:47, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Edit not permitted

Few pages display a message stating this page is semi-protected so that only autoconfirmed users can edit it. For example, the Central Board of Secondary Education did not update the page based on a recent government notification and I am not confident if I make edits against the same will my edits be considered as one from the approved editor or not? Please advise. Juliansekar (talk) 11:07, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

@Juliansekar: Note I've placed double square brackets around the page name to form a link, as you should do on talk pages when referring to a specific wiki page. The article is semi-protected, and so requires confirmed/auto-confirmed privilege to edit it, which you have, having 22 edits and about 16 days tenure. Like any other edit, please be sure you cite a reliable source for your change. —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 11:34, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

How to find old versions of articles, before deletion?

Hi there Teahouse friends! I'm trying to find what a page looked like, and what the content was, before it was deleted. The page I'm looking for is Matthew Prince, and I was looking for a link somewhere on this page:

• https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Matthew_Prince&action=history

What am I doing wrong, or where would I find this type of content? The reason I am asking is that sometimes I find pages which are redirects, or which have been deleted, and I'm curious to see what was written before. Nickgray (talk) 12:02, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Only administrators can see deleted revisions of articles. Therefore you can not find them. Ruslik_Zero 12:40, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

That's not strictly accurate. Some articles get scraped by third party sites before they're deleted. I used to visit Deletionpedia if I felt the need to try to find an old article. Sometimes I would get lucky most times I wouldn't. Nick Moyes (talk) 12:59, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

How to remove "Peacock|date=August 2020"

Please suggest me what are the steps needed to be taken if a reviewer kept Template:Peacock, I wrote the article based on the references I got. So suggest me how to improve my page Chemancheri Kunhiraman Nair, where User:Melcous added a Template:Peacock. Please tell me what are the steps needed to be taken. Rahulsoman (talk) 13:04, 22 August 2020 (UTC) Rahulsoman (talk) 13:04, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Rahulsoman, and welcome to the Teahouse Some examples: "renowned": that is an opinion. "an inevitable part of cultural history" - that is opinion. "Unfortunately" - that is editorialising. Wikipedia articles should never contain any evaluative language, good or bad, unless they are directly quoting a reliably published source independent of the subject. Wikipedia articles should never be indicating to the reader how they should regard something: while most people would agree that it is unfortunate for a couple to lose their first child, it is the business of an encyclopaedia to say that that happened, but not to say whether it is unfortunate or not. More subtly, "he got [a] chance to learn" is putting a spin on it, again prompting the reader how to regard the events. Does that make things clearer? --ColinFine (talk) 13:53, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi ColinFine, thanks a lot for the detailed review it really helped me a lot to understand about the writing style. Now I tried to correct the Chemancheri Kunhiraman Nair and edited as you mentioned. Once again thanking you for your kind reply. If possible please go through the page and try to give some feedback. Rahulsoman (talk) 15:12, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Rahulsoman, {{Peacock}} means that the article uses promotional wording, and that is clearly the case in the article. The article sounds extremely promotional and some of the writing doesn't seem to maintain a neutral point of view. Aim to make the article less promotional. — Yours, Berrely • ^Talk∕_Contribs 13:56, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi Berrely Thanks for your reply, I tried to remove the wordings the promotional wordings, which appears here and there in the article. ColinFine was making me clear where I am violating a neutral point of view So hope current version of article is okey. Rahulsoman (talk) 15:12, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Just a reminder that it is not "your page" but rather, "an article" which anyone may edit. David notMD (talk) 15:45, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Request content advice from seniors re. AfD

I think Ghazi Hur Mujahid Faqeer Arbelo Katpar should be marked for AfD as it does not meet WP:N. There are hardly any citations/sources. The ones that are there, do not meet the 2 WP:RS standard, and only refer to the person in passing. I have made efforts to find better sourcing in RS but in vain.

However, I am a newbie and would appreciate advice from seniors, before I press the trigger.

Stefania0 (talk) 13:05, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Stefania0, I agree it does seem to fail WP:GNG, if you like I could submit it for you? — Yours, Berrely • ^Talk∕_Contribs 13:24, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Berrely Thank you! Would appreciate that. Pir of Pagaro VIII appears to have similar issues. Stefania0 (talk) 13:29, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

I agree. Giraffer (munch) 21:50, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Questions about publishing a new article

I am attempting to publish a new article. I worked on it in my talk page and then submitted it. I now notice that it looks like I submitted my talk page to become an article in wikipedia. The link is here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:RedBeardBandit. Is this something I should fix by deleting and re-copying or does it happen every time you attempt to publish an article? What would be the best course of action? Or is there a simple way to rename the draft? Any help is appreciated. RedBeardBandit (talk) 15:49, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

The reviewer will create an appropriate title. Puzzled as to why the refs appear before the table. David notMD (talk) 16:03, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

It's not intentional. How do I fix it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by RedBeardBandit (talk • contribs) 16:06, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

@RedBeardBandit: - a bit of effort has fixed your odd reference formatting. Two issues with your table were stopping it from closing (it crossed a section header and it didn't have a closing "|}"). Nosebagbear (talk) 16:44, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

@Nosebagbear: Thank you so much for your help. I never would have figured that out on my own — Preceding unsigned comment added by RedBeardBandit (talk • contribs) 16:59, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Editing

How can a Celebrity edit his own page and not allow others to edit his details? Shaheryar Shabbir (talk) 16:18, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

@Shaheryar Shabbir: Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a platform for public relations. We do not allow the subjects of articles, nor their family or employees, to control the content. Articles are based on reliable sources; preferably, the sources should be secondary sources unrelated to the subject. —C.Fred (talk) 16:21, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

If this celebrity wants total control over what’s written about him, then perhaps he or his representatives should try another website like some of the ones listed in Wikipedia:Alternative outlets. On Wikipedia, the subjects of articles don’t have any final editorial control over article content per Wikipedia:Ownership of content. — Marchjuly (talk) 17:13, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Sources

I added information to a page. The Source i cited with Billion Dollar Whale, published by Hachette. The information was just three lines, and pretty much just cited sourse directly. The post was removed because it couldn't be "verified." What's up with this. Here's what I posted: In fact, the FBI is now looking at whether at whether a donation of $100,000 to Trump Victory in 2017 originated with Low. And The Wall Street Journal reported that at point, $75 million was offered to Elliot Broidy, a businessman and a Republican fundraiser, and his wife if the Justice Department ended its probe into 1MBD. Are trump loyalists editing these pages? BKSanDiego (talk) 17:37, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi BKSanDiego, welcome to the Teahouse, and no, I am not allowed to assume that someone with a status is editing it. Can you quote the book, where does it say such statement? And you also do not appear to be citing the "Wall Street Journal" claim. Also, "In fact" is not the right word we use here. Fun facts are subjective; we just say the facts and nothing else. GeraldWL ✉ 17:43, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for this, Gerald. How about this: Authors of Six Billion Dollar Whale write that the FBI is now looking at whether at whether a donation of $100,000 to Trump Victory in 2017 originated with Low. In their book they also state that The Wall Street Journal reported that at point, $75 million was offered to Elliot Broidy, a businessman and a Republican fundraiser, and his wife if the Justice Department ended its probe into 1MBD. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BKSanDiego (talk • contribs) 18:06, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Hello, BKSanDiego and welcome to the Teahouse. When citing a book, one should indicate exactly where in the book the statement is supported. I have restored your edit, modified a bit, with a Google Books URL link to the book, but a page number would, also help. It is important that facts stated in a Wikipedia article can be verified by readers, see our certification policy. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 20:47, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

@BKSanDiego and DESiegel: I tweaked Jho Low a bit to add the page numbers and two targeted links in the book, but don't exactly like the result. The second sentence about the $75 million should really just be identified as a quote, I think, instead of (my) repeating it in the cite. I suppose this is an example of when it might be better to just cite the same book again instead of trying to get the one cite to do double-duty. Of course, if the WSJ article weren't paywalled, we could just eliminate the "WSJ reported", quote it directly and omit the second cite to the book. I know we could do it anyway, as supposedly the source needn't be accessible, but I hate leaving out an accessible source if there is one. —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 19:20, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Using Lang codes for foreign words in etymology section -- review edit

Hello all,

I just made an edit to Water § Etymology adding Template:Lang tags to all the foreign words. I wanted to make sure this is a correct edit (tags, templates, punctuation, italics, etc) -- could someone take a look and let me know? CampWood (talk) 17:38, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

CampWood, all okay there, although if I were you, I wouldn't use it, as I see no changes in it. GeraldWL ✉ 17:46, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Draft guidance

Hi. I've been editing Draft:David J. Zimmerman and have gotten very helpful feedback here. I've addressed the issues discussed, and would appreciate any additional guidance on the draft before I resubmit. Thanks. VictorMooney (talk) 20:54, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

@VictorMooney: I think it has a ways to go before being submitted again. There are many unsourced claims. Mutualart.com is not a great source, and I also see several press releases, which are generally undesirable sources. My two cents would be to not try to cover everything possible. That which is covered should be amply sourced by good references.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 21:05, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

The above draft also requires some revision deletion by an admin, to remove version of the draft that contained significant copyright violations. So, definitely not ready for submission. ThatMontrealIP (talk) 21:19, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

@ThatMontrealIP thank you for the link to the Earwig's page. Many of the listed "violations" are from David J. Zimmerman's web site, and others are from published articles (TIME, "Clothing as Artifact..."). One other is flagged several times - One Voice: Portraits from the Tibetan Diaspora. How are those violations? Can you suggest a fix? VictorMooney (talk) 21:43, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

VictorMooney The problem is that you copied infomation, word for word, from the sources. We are not allowed to do that. See WP:COPYPASTE and WP:COPYVIO for info. You must use your own words. Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 22:03, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Someone else wrote the text that was the source of the violation. Directly copying it here is indeed a copyright violation. Such texts can be paraphrased, but it has to be done carefully and also has to be attributed. The source I mention just prior is also a primary source, so we would not usually paraphrase that. Perhaps some of the other editors can give you some tips on article composition and avoiding copyvio. The main thing is to write in your own words ans to attribute where appropriate.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 22:06, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, ThatMontrealIP & Tribe of Tiger! I appreciate the feedback. VictorMooney (talk) 22:33, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

(edit conflict) @ThatMontrealIP, VictorMooney, and Tribe of Tiger: I have done the revision deletion (REVDEL) on Draft:David J. Zimmerman. Some of the copied text came in very early in the draft's history, so almost all of the revisions had to be removed from view. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 22:37, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Oh, a minor mpoint of formatting, VictorMooney. Please do not leave blank space at the start of a paragraph, as if for a paragraph indent. The wiki software takes that as indicating program code or other literal text, and renders it in a mono-spaced font, which is not what you normally want on a discussion page. You can indent the whole paragraph with one or more leading colons, but we do not normally use first-line indents on text paragraphs here on Wikipedia. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 22:42, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

    One more question. Can you explain why "One Voice: Portraits from the Tibetan Diaspora" was flagged as a copyright violation? It is the actual name of a publication as well as the name of an exhibition. Also, numerous external links were flagged. They too are the actual title of published, online articles. Thanks again. VictorMooney (talk) 22:50, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Please read the above comment, from DESiegal, in regard to formatting. I fixed the first "error" that you made on this page, but I am leaving this one for the time being, so you can see for yourself, why this is a problem. It puts your words in a Big Grey Box, in Large Letters/Text! Indent your paragraphs with colons, : , not spaces. The colon system allows us to see successive replies in an orderly fashion. Thanks so much, Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 23:15, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

I'm honestly not trying to make you crazy! Just a bit of a learning curve...VictorMooney (talk) 23:25, 22 August 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by VictorMooney (talk • contribs) 23:24, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

(edit conflict) VictorMooney If by "flagged as a copyright violation" you are referring to the out put of the "Eawig Copyvio detection tool" that tool is not as smart as a human. It will tag matching text as a possible violation, even when the text is a fact, such as the title of a work, or the name of a place. It will also flag properly quoted content, inside quote marks and with a proper citation. Any reviewing admin, and most if not all AfC reviewers, know to discount this kind of match by the tool. How3ever, text copied from a published article such as "One Voice: Portraits from the Tibetan Diaspora" is protected by copyright and is properly flagged as a violation when copied word for word. But I based the revision deletion primarily on text copied from https://www.davidzimmerman.com/about and did not need to look into other possible violations, be cause a revision that co9ntains any significant copyright violation will be deleted where other copying is acceptable or not. If you want further information about what kind of copying is acceptable, please read WP:COPYRIGHTS, and if you still have questions, please come back here, post your questions(s) and I or others will try to answer them. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 23:30, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

Thank you DESiegel. Since the current version of Draft:David J. Zimmerman does contain significant copyright violations, will the draft be deleted shortly? I certainly would like the opportunity to rewrite those sections which are in violation. I'm also glad to hear that humans are still smarter! VictorMooney (talk) 00:00, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

At present, VictorMooney, the only text flagged (in this draft) by the Earwig tool is a pair of quotations, both properly marked and cited, and several mentions of the titles of works. Neither of those types of text violate Wikipedia's copyright policy much less fall under the copyright speed deletion criterion. Nor am I aware of any copying not caught by the tool, nor of any other issue which would warrant deletion. So unless there is a serious problem that I am quite unaware of, which I doubt, this draft is not likely to be deleted any time soon for copyright infringement, or indeed for any other reason. I do a good deal of handling speedy deletions and copyright revision deletions here (although not nearly as much as some admins) so I think my assurance is worth something.

The issue now to be dealt with is Notability and the relevant guidelines are WP:GNG and WP:NARTIST. Ar article that clearly meets either will generally be considered as notable, and one that meets both will pretty much always be so considered. I have not reviewed the references currently cited -- for all I know this would already pass. But if not, reviews of Zimmerman's work in reliable sources that are independent of him, and significant coverage of him in similar sources would be what is needed.

Feel free to ask any further questions. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 01:53, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Need article writing help

I wrote an article about a female author, cited everything, and it was rejected because it sounded like an advertisment and the sources were not independant enough. I am not sure what I did wrong and am looking for help, thanks. WikiJSPN (talk) 02:11, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

courtesy link: Draft:Katya Cengel

Hello, WikiJSPN and welcome to the Teahouse.

I would say i8t is more that Draft:Katya Cengel sound rather like a resume or CV. It carefully lists every position and award, but does not go into much detail about any of them. It also doesn't report much that any third party has written about Cengel. Note that the draft was not Rejected but rather was Declined. "Declined" means "This isn't ready yet, please fix these issues and try again." "Rejected" means, "This will never be a valid article, stop wasting everyone's time by submitting it." An important difference. Perhaps DGG who did the review, would care to comment further. I have not reveiwed the references cited in detail, but quite a few of them seem to be stories written BY Cengel, not ABOUT her. The latter are much more valuable to a Wikipedia article, and should predominate.

I hope these comments are helpful. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 02:45, 23 August 2020 (UTC) @WikiJSPN: DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 03:11, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

{{U|WikiJSPN}. As I see it I'd call it more PR than a CV, but the real point where DES and I agree, is that it was not a NPOV encyclopedia article . Consider the quotation, which would do on her web page or a publishers advertisement."On finding interesting feature stories, Cengel said "Adventure does not have to mean traveling to a different country, it is more a way of looking at things and being receptive to something entirely new and different." Rather, List her books, in full bibliographic format, inclluding refernces to 3rd party reviews in major reliable sources. Do not include minor work she may have written.

And don't be disheartened. Some of my first work here was declined or deleted also, and that's true of most of us. DGG ( talk ) 04:02, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

User box for frontline healthcare worker?

I hope this is the right place to ask. I found the userbox gallery and looked around but I couldn’t find quite what I was looking for. I’m looking for a userbox that says something like “this user is a healthcare hero in the fight against COVID-19” - is there anything like that? And if so, where might I find it? Thanks Lungespine (talk) 02:40, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Hello Lungespine. Thank you so much for the dangerous work you do during this horrible pandemic. Please make a request at Wikipedia talk:Userboxes/Ideas, and I am sure that a userbox programmer will help you. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 03:01, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Note: Request was answered about an hour later by Diriector_Doc. —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 21:52, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Image stacking

Is there a way to do 2X2 image stacking? The multiple image template doesn't work, and there is nothing about that in extended image syntax or image help pages. Aditya^{(talk • contribs)} 04:44, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

@Aditya Kabir: Are you mean you take 4 images and arrange them in a 2x2 grid? If so, I suggest using a table without a header row or the newer display:grid css technology. For the latter, the following works more or less good:

I hope this helps. Victor Schmidt (talk) 09:42, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

@Victor Schmidt: This was super helpful indeed. Yayy. Let me try the table opion first. Most obliged. Y Let me pour you a cup of tea. It's better than beer, you know. Aditya^{(talk • contribs)} 10:49, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

@Aditya Kabir: For the German-impaired:[1] . The display:grid example there works in the current FFox, Chrome, and Edge on Win10. It also works on Firefox 68 and Chrome 84 on the now pretty old Android 5.0. It does not work on Win10 IE11 (it displays the boxes stacked in one column, screen width; there is no console error). There's also some more flexibility to it shown here. BTW, regarding the table solution, some people (not me) object ideologically to using tables for images. —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 22:34, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

@AlanM1: Awesome. Even for a German impaired. Tables are not for images, and I can share that prejudice happily. Looks like CSS it is then. Y A cup of tea? I can put some Vodka in ice tea, you know. Aditya^{(talk • contribs)} 00:33, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Shubham Rathi

Original post in Hindi

बचपन से ही पिताजी ने अनुशासन और देशभक्ति की प्रेरणा दी तथा जिसके फलस्वरूप बचपन से ही देश के लिए कुछ करने का जुनून था और देशभक्ति की भावना थी। स्कूल के समय से ही कुछ देशभक्त व समाजसेवी राजनीतिक नेताओ के चरित्र का प्रभाव पड़ा जिसके फलस्वरूप कक्षा 10 से ही एक छात्र संघठन में जुड़ कर छात्र हित के लिए अपने युवा जोश के साथ कार्य किए। वर्ष 2010 में इंटर करने के पश्चात मुरादाबाद मंडल में सरकारी यूनिवर्सिटी बनवाने की मांग उठाई और वर्ष 2012 में हिन्दू कॉलेज में ग्रेजुएशन में एडमिशन लिया और यही से अपनी छात्र राजनीति की शुरआत करी। लगभग 6 साल एक छात्र संघठन से जुड़ा रहा और बहुत से आंदोलन छात्र हित,राष्ट्र हित व किसानों के लिए किए। मैंने 2015 में अपनी ग्रेजुएशन उत्तीर्ण की तथा 2017 में अपनी पोस्ट ग्रेजुएशन पूरी की और 2018 में लॉ (LLB) में एडमिशन लिया जिसमें कि वर्तमान में अध्ययनरत हूं। वर्ष 2017 में युवा छात्र - छात्राओं की आवाज़ को बुलंद करने के लिए एक छात्र संगठन उत्तर प्रदेश स्टूडेंट्स यूनियन का गठन किया जिसका उद्देश्य छात्रों की समस्याओं को सुलझाना , मुरादाबाद मंडल में सरकारी यूनिवर्सिटी व सरकारी मेडिकल कॉलेज बनवाना और गरीब छात्र - छात्राओं के लिए हॉस्टल बनवाना तथा पूरे उत्तर प्रदेश में युवाओं को आवाज़ को बुलंद करना है। वर्ष 2018 में संगठन का रजिस्ट्रेशन कराया और सर्वसम्मति के साथ संगठन कि बैठक में मुझे उत्तर प्रदेश स्टूडेंट्स यूनियन का प्रदेश अध्यक्ष बनाया गया। हमारा छात्र संगठन उत्तर प्रदेश के विभिन्न जिलों में कार्यरत है तथा युवाओं की आवाज़ को बुलंद कर रहा है। मैंने अब तक अनेकों आंदोलनों में हिस्सा लिया जो कि आतंकवाद के विरूद्ध आंदोलन थे,चाहे वो किसानों के हक की लड़ाई हो या और कोई सामाजिक मुद्दे हों। अनेकों किसान आंदोलनों तथा बहुत से राष्ट्र हित व युवाओं के लिए आंदोलनों को आयोजित किया और आगे भी करता रहूंगा।

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Raghavvishnoi10 (talk • contribs) 06:18, 23 August 2020 (UTC) ‎

Hi there. Your words are Hindi, so my device cannot render it. If you want to talk something about the Hindi Wikipedia, talk it there, not here. By the way for other editors, using Google Translate, this is what it says:

Google translation of original post

From childhood, Dad inspired discipline and patriotism and as a result, from childhood, he had a passion to do something for the country and a sense of patriotism. From the time of school, the character of some patriotic and social political leaders was affected due to which a student from class 10 joined the organization and worked with his youthful zeal for student interest. After intermission in the year 2010, he raised the demand to build a government university in Moradabad division and in 2012 he got admission in Hindu college for graduation and started his student politics from there. For about 6 years, he was associated with a student organization and made many movements for student interest, national interest and farmers. I passed my graduation in 2015 and completed my post graduation in 2017 and took admission in Law (LLB) in 2018 which I am currently studying. In the year 2017, to raise the voice of young students, a student organization, Uttar Pradesh Students Union was formed which aims to solve the problems of the students, to build government universities and government medical colleges in Moradabad division and hostels for poor students. Youths have to be raised in the entire state of Uttar Pradesh. In the year 2018, I got the organization registered and I was made the state president of the Uttar Pradesh Students Union in a meeting of the organization with consensus. Our student organization is working in various districts of Uttar Pradesh and is raising the voice of the youth. I have participated in many movements till now, which were movements against terrorism, whether it is the fight for the rights of farmers or any other social issue. Organized many farmer movements and movements for many national interests and youth and will continue to do so.

What are you trying to say, friend? GeraldWL ✉ 06:24, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Update: I went to the photo's description's website, and the "About" page is literally the whole Hindi text, see http://www.shubhamrathi.in/about. Can you clarify your intention here, Raghavvishnoi10? This is only meant for questions regarding the English Wikipedia, not a marketing place. GeraldWL ✉ 06:30, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

(Biographical content deleted) This is a help forum. What is your question? Nick Moyes (talk) 08:36, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Should this IP editor be blocked?

Every edit this IP address has made, in the last 3 days, has been reverted, by multiple editors (including one by myself), because they're all vandalism. What is it going to take to get this guy blocked? JimKaatFan (talk) 06:30, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi JimKaatFan. It's probably going to take someone to seek administrator assistance at WP:ANV or by directly contacting admin. Any administrator can block a WP:VOA (even without warning) when they come across one if they think it's necessary to stop further disruption, but only an administator can block an account. There are a number of administrators who are also Tea House hosts and "reporting" such an account here will sometimes lead to one of them stepping in and taking action; however, you might get faster results if you go to one of the administrator noticeboards, particularly after multiple warnings have been issued and the account still hasn't stopped. At this point though, the IP seems to have stopped so a block might be seen as more punitive than preventive; moreover, any block issued might simply be for a day or so which means the IP can simply wait until it expires before coming back. Maybe taking a wait and see approach is better now, and then seeking administrator assistance if the IP comes back and continues the same types of edits. -- Marchjuly (talk) 06:56, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Tyhank yo9u, JimKaatFan. I have blocked the IP address for a period of 72 hours. I note edits from that IP last year that were not vandalism, so it is no doubt dynamic. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 14:11, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

If a blocked account was unblocked, can it's block evasions will also be unblocked?

Hello! I'm asking you for a question. If a blocked account was unblocked, can it's block evasions also be unblocked?OrangeCD-ROM (talk) 06:52, 23 August 2020 (UTC) OrangeCD-ROM (talk) 06:52, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

No, I don't think that is done. Assuming that you're talking about an account that was blocked for some reason and then the person engage in Sock puppetry to try and evade their original block, then the blocked sock puppet accounts are almost always going to be indefinitely blocked. The primary account (i.e. the master account) may be unblocked per WP:UNBLOCK, but the other accounts pretty much never are. -- Marchjuly (talk) 07:01, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

User:OrangeCD-ROM - No, as Marchjuly said, but evading the block via sockpuppets also makes it less likely that the master account will be unblocked. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:29, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

• Note. User now blocked. GMG^talk 17:38, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Forgot Password

A fellow editor user:Taymeedeeray reached out to me as he is not able to access his account . It seems he has forgotten his password. Please how can he access his account Haryanfe (talk) 07:49, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi Haryanfe. Please see Wikipedia:FAQ/Technical#How do I recover a password I have forgotten? for more information. -- Marchjuly (talk) 08:01, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks Haryanfe I remembered my password I can now access my account Taymeedeeray (talk) 08:05, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

How are editing disputes resolved?

Re: Roswell UFO incident

You can see by the edit history that I edited the first line to read "...aerial craft..." Aerial craft includes weather balloons. But other editors want the first line to read "...balloon..."

My question: how are editing disputes resolved?

Thank you. Dannydunnontheoceanfloor (talk) 08:51, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Dannydunnontheoceanfloor Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. Editing disputes are typically resolved through discussion amongst the editors involved on the article talk page. Typically such discussion will involve arguments based in Wikipedia guidelines or other logical arguments, resulting in a consensus as to how to proceed. If discussion is unable to resolve the dispute, there are avenues of dispute resolution to use. 331dot (talk) 08:55, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Dannydunnontheoceanfloor, yes, the talkpage is the first and best way to resolve any dispute. Plus, you need to be aware of WP:3RR. Very important to read this! Not observing the three revert rule can land you in trouble, much faster than a punctured weather balloon. The editors who watch the article will see that you have posted a note on the tp (talkpage) and discuss with you. Best, Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 09:18, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

My user page

Hi, are the userboxes on my user page formatted correctly? I'm having trouble figuring this out. Am I supposed to put the word "Template" in the code? 314WPlay (talk) 09:37, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

314WPlay, all good. GeraldWL ✉ 09:39, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

@Gerald Waldo Luis: So the source code is fine? OK thanks. I'm very cautious about editing despite the 'be bold' thing because I've seen loads of edit disputes and arguments, and there are also so many rules, policies, guidelines, and other stuff that I don't make a substantive edit (I wish I could though!). 314WPlay (talk) 09:43, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

314WPlay, you have the potential for being a great editor from your personalities. Welcome! GeraldWL ✉ 09:50, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

@Gerald Waldo Luis: Thank you! 314WPlay (talk) 10:04, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

314WPlay WP is like life...if you are friendly, polite and respectful of others, things should work out just fine. If you make a mistake, it can be reversed. Plenty of people have pointed out my mistakes, over the years...and I said thank you, I'm sorry, etc., just like in RL. I learned from it, and often made a wiki friend in the process. The problem, esp. for a new editor (or even an older one) is being stubborn, and unwilling to see the other person's side. Mistakes are expected and forgiven. Being an arsehole, not so much. You seem like the good sort! The talkpage of an article is the best place to work well with others if disagreements arise. So, go forth, make some edits! Gerald Waldo Luis and I believe in you. For example, the two of us, together, received some "corrective advice" recently, followed it, and emerged unscathed. :-) Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 10:14, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Tribe of Tiger Thank you, this is very reassuring. Yes it is like that in a way for those of us who have a life. I'm nervous about making a mistake (more of a personality thing) but I can admit them when they happen and I will go beyond fixing typos - if I don't, there wasn't much point creating an account was there. Can I ask another question here; when do I need to use the Reply to template or link a user's page if I want them to get notified and see it? Other editors haven't always, and yet I still see it. So why does it exist then? 314WPlay (talk) 19:54, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

@314WPlay: You've got brownie points here for correctly signing, indenting, and pinging too . —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 22:54, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

@314WPlay: Sorry, I don't understand your question per "Reply to template" etc. Perhaps User:AlanM1's compliment helps as a confirmation? Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 23:03, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

@314WPlay: I didn't see the question. Use {{Re}} or {{U}} on any discussion page (talk pages or some pages starting with "Wikipedia:" that are used for discussion, like this one) to send notification to someone with a link to that section. You don't need to use it when posting on a user's own talk page because they will receive notification anyway. If someone doesn't respond, they may have notifications turned off, or maybe they haven't seen it, or maybe have nothing to say. People don't use the template if they don't want to bother someone with a trivial response, if they expect the person will see it anyway, they know the person has notifications disabled, or maybe they just forget . —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 00:09, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

@Tribe of Tiger and AlanM1: Sorry, I didn't phrase it very well. It's a trivial point. Just wanted to know if pinging a user is always necessary in order for them to see your message. I think it's clear now, having read the talk page guidelines and template help as well. What if someone asks a question on an article's talk page - if you reply but don't ping them with reply or u, will they still get an alert about your answer? 314WPlay (talk) 19:38, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

What User:AlanM1 said is true. If you don't ping them they don't get alerted. --David Biddulph (talk) 20:04, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Disruptive Editing

Hi. Someone is currently changing wikipedia articles disruptively. I issued a warning but is there a board like this one where admins can look into it and block them?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/81.164.30.20 Julia Domna Ba'al (talk) 09:54, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Nevermind I found this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents

Julia Domna Ba'al (talk) 10:04, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

@Julia Domna Ba'al: plain vandalism can go to WP:AIV, which is much faster than Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents. Victor Schmidt (talk) 11:46, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Request for Review of My Draft

Draft: Lockdown Ki Love Story is being under review from 5 days. Please review it and transfer to main space ASAP. I add all reliable sources. Unknownnreasonn (talk)

@Unknownnreasonn: Your submission has been in the queue for 5 days. There are 552 submissions that are in the queue for 2 months. Please be patient. Victor Schmidt (talk) 11:33, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

@Victor Schmidt: I am not curious but my draft is about a Indian Show that is coming in few days.So I only want to review the draft ASAP. Unknownnreasonn (talk)

Hello, Unknownnreasonn. Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia, not a news source. Still less a vehicle for promotion. See There is no deadline. But if you want to get the draft accepted, I suggest you throw away all the material which comes from the show and its producers, and find some independent sources that talk about it. Many of your references are clearly to press releases, and so do not contribute in the slightest to establishing that the show is notable; nor do interviews. Remember that Wikipedia has basically no interest in anything said, written, or published by people close to the subject, whether directly or in interviews or press releases. It is only interested in what people who have no connection with the subject, and who have not been prompted or fed information by the subject, have chosen to publish about it in reliable sources. Please also see WP:TOOSOON and WP:CRYSTAL. --ColinFine (talk) 12:05, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

@ColinFine: can you tell me about the independent sources that you are talking in previous statement?I don't know about it and why I throw away the materials that comes from the show and its producers? Tell me the reason. Unknownnreasonn (talk)

Unknownnreasonn Wikipedia does not accept as reliable what people or organizations or companies write about themselves, as grounds to confirm a topic meets Wikipedia's definition of notability. This extends to what people say about themselves in interviews. It is standard policy. Like parents answering "Because I said so." to a child's "Why?" An independent source would be published content written by a person with no connection to the topic. David notMD (talk) 13:03, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Also, the backlog of drafts to be reviewed is a pile, not a queue. Reviewers select what interests them (with a bit of an eye on the oldest). David notMD (talk) 13:04, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

@Unknownnreasonn: Have you read Help:Your first article, and the other documents to which it refers, like WP:Notability? —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 22:59, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Kevin Coates

Good morning

KEVIN COATES: his current Wikipedia entry

Yesterday, Kevin Coates and myself spent all day up-dating his Wikipedia entry, with some difficulty! Eventually - after several false starts - we finally concluded our edit at around 19h00 last night.

However, devastatingly, we've just discovered that our entire new input has been "reverted" by ClueBotNG: how an earth can we get it permanently reinstated?

I'm new at this task and it seems that I should be able to revert to an earlier edit, or re-enter all the new text again, but we're concerned that it will simply be deleted again.

Kevin and I will be delighted for any assistance you might be able to provide.

Sincerely

Richard N Frost (on behalf of Kevin Coates) Richard N Frost (talk) 12:17, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Hello Richard N Frost and welcome to the Teahouse! Cluebot did indeed revert you, you changed the article from this [2] to this [3] and the bot is supposed to revert stuff like that. You were later reverted again by Justlettersandnumbers who left an explaination here: [4].

My advice to you, if you want to try to have some influence on the contents of that article (not impossible, but WP is a peculiar place), is to take the time to read WP:COI and WP:BLP, and then to start a discussion at Talk:Kevin Coates, suggesting what changes you would like to see, and the WP:RS that supports them. Nothing is permanently reinstated on WP. Change is one of the points of this project. Good luck. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 12:40, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Nothing is lost. It is all there in View history. And could be copied to your Sandbox to work on before pasting into the article. HOWEVER, given several reverts (deletions) of your attempts, you are strongly advised to start a discussion on the Talk page of the article rather than editing the article directly. And as GGS wrote, read WP:COI, as it clearly applies to you. David notMD (talk) 13:10, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Keep in mind that an article is not a CV regurgitation, and every fact must be referenced. David notMD (talk) 13:12, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Richard N Frost Yes, please see WP:MINREF, for our actual guidelines. Simple stmts that are not likely to be challenged, do not require a ref. If the info added is a quotation, or "contentious" biographical info, it needs a ref, but regular sorts of info do not. Example: "He grew up in a ranch-style house" does not need a ref. We do have to use common sense. Every fact does Not need a ref. I am not sure how contentious it is to make normal stmts about an artist's life and career. Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 03:42, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Another way to look at it, Richard N Frost, is to realise that, as an encyclopaedia, Wikipedia is basically not interested in what the subject of an article says or wants to say about themselves: it is only interested in what people wholly unconnected with the subject, and not prompted or fed information by the subject, have chosen to publish about the subject in reliable sources. If there is such independent published material, then the article should be almost entirely based on it; if there isn't, then the subject does not meet Wikipedia's criteria for notability, and no article on them is possible. --ColinFine (talk) 14:43, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Richard N Frost, well done for coming here for advice; I'd meant to leave you an invitation, but see that in the event I didn't do so – sorry about that! I concur with all the advice that others have given you (my thanks to those who gave it!). For the record, I reverted your additions twice; the edit summary I left the second time was "Again remove swathes of unsourced and WP:PROMOTIONal stuff – WP:neutrality is one of the five pillars of this project; if in doubt, take to talk". Please take the time to follow those blue links and read the pages they lead to, they are both helpful and important. Note to ColinFine and anyone else who cares: I'm pretty certain that Coates is fully notable by our standards, and deserves a considerably better page than we have at the moment. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 17:18, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Tribe of Tiger, however, in a WP:BLP I don't think WP:MINREF has that much weight. It's generally a bad idea to include "is married" and stuff like that without good refs. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:58, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

@Gråbergs Gråa Sång: I suspect I may be a bit bothered on this topic, just now, sorry. I recently had to fend off several notes at Chemancheri Kunhiraman Nair. For one section, I had rewritten the last portion of a properly sourced paragraph, only to see it removed entirely, and the remainder of the info tagged as . I am absolutely puzzled as to why this statement, regarding a person born in 1916, in India, was removed as a "peacock issue".

"His mother died when he was only three years old, and then, at the age of thirteen, he lost his father. He had an early interest in the performances presented by visiting drama troupes, and at the age of fifteen, left his home to begin training at a Kathikali centre, some 25 km away."

The note, left in regards to the remaining text, pertained to the subject's place of birth. The entire original section, prior to the "selective removal" was sourced. I know this because I read the actual source. In reaction to the above, and other notes, I have sourced *Each* stmt, and suspect that the article has now ventured into WP:OVERCITE territory.

In regards to your notes regarding "is married", I must agree that this qualifies as a contentious issue, just don't tell my spouse that I said so! Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 03:20, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Can you review the draft I created for Shourya Deep

Can you please review the draft I created Shourya Deep and tell me how to get it approved.  Prakash mesra (talk) 13:53, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Courtesy link: Draft:Shourya Deep

Hello, Prakash mesra and welcome to the Teahouse. There are several things you could do that would improve this draft:

1. Remove promotional language and language that expresses an opinion. Text such as one of the finest directors of Bollywood should not be in a draft or article unless it is a quotation, attributed to a specific person, with a citation to match. See WP:QUOTE.
2. Phrases such as he showed interest in acting under the influence of his mother who herself was a theatre artist. should be cited to a source or removed, probably removed, unless this early interest was widely noted and mentioned by independent sources.
3. Do not cite the IMDB. It is not generally considered reliable, although a single link to an actor's IMDB profile in the external links section is OK. Remove all such cites.
4. Do not cite any wikis, including other Wikipedia articles, and including Wikiwiki and WikiBiodata.
5. Always give dates (or at least years) of publication of sources if they are known.
6. Always list the author(s) of sources if they are known.
7. If a publication has page numbers, list the page or pages where the information cited appears.
8. Always give the name of a source in a citation, not its web address. Use "Your News", not "yournews.in." in the |website= or |work= parameter.
9. Do not provide the subject's exact birth date unless it is already widely published, or the subject has published it himself, as on his own web site. In either of these cases, provide a citation to the publication(s). See WP:DOB.
10. Finally, wait patiently. There are many drafts awaiting review, and not as many reviewers as might be wished. It may take weeks or even months for a reviewer to get to your draft. Or it may be reviewed tomorrow. Reviews are not done in any particular order. There is no reliable way to get to the front of the line, in fact there is no line, just a pile. You may continue to work on the draft, or on other drafts or articles, while waiting.

I hope those help. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 14:42, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Page moved to draft

I edited a wikipedia page and someone put it as a draft before I finished it. I then went to save it, and it told me that my work had to be seen first. When I looked at my changes, it reverted back to the old page. Can you delete it so I can start over again? It's titled "Now That's What I Call Music! 74 (American series)" Thank you. Trevortnidesserped (talk) 14:45, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Trevortnidesserped, and welcome to the Teahouse.

The page Draft:Now That's What I Call Music! 74 (American series) is by no means ready for the main article space. The move to draft space was proper, if it had not been moved to draft, it would have been deleted pretty much right away. You can work on the pager in draft space, it does not need to be deleted for this. When you think it is ready, you may submit it for review or you may move it back to the main article space. If you submit for review, you will get feedback if it is not approved, and a chance to try again. However, review can take several weeks or more because of the number of drafts waiting. If you move directly to the main article space, and the article does not meet standards, it might be deleted through any on of several processes, depending on what the problem is and who notices it. I advise going through a review, but it is not required. I advise starting new articles in draft even if you never inhtend to submit them for review -- that is what I do when I create a new article (and I've been here for 15 years now). This is because I can't create a finished or even minimal acceptable article in one edit, and neither can most editors.

The move to draft was done by Captain Calm, an experienced editor.

I hope,this advice is helpful. I will put some additional advice on your user talk page. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 15:05, 23 August 2020 (UTC) @Trevortnidesserped: DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 15:06, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

@Trevortnidesserped and DESiegel: Draft:Now That's What I Call Music! 74 (American series) is a redirect to Now That's What I Call Music! 74 (American series) (the same page name in mainspace), but that page is a redirect to Now That's What I Call Music! discography#United States (a section of an existing article, first created in 2005).

Draft

I have a draft page that hasn't been reviewed yet. Could someone take a look at it for me to see if it meets standards? It is titled "Now That's What I Call Music! 74 (American series)" Trevortnidesserped (talk) 17:44, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi, I moved Now That's What I Call Music! 74 (American series) to draft, and it looks much better now, thanks, so I've moved it back to main article space. Captain Calm (talk) 17:57, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Issue that grinds my gears

I worked on a page last night. It was part of a discography, that for some reason, the 20 newest parts of it don't have articles. I put a tolerable amount of information, everything was in good shape. But for some reason, it looks like somebody deleted my page. It says it was "moved," but when I go to click on it, it redirects me to the discography page. It's almost as if they are planning to delete every page in the discography, I thought that until the draft of an article in the same discography was approved. I don't know if it was because I didn't protect the page, I don't know if it's because my page didn't meet standards...I don't know what's going on, and I need help.

Trevortnidesserped (talk) 18:54, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Trevortnidesserped and welcome to the Teahouse.

It would help very much if you indicated what page you were working on, or even what discography it was part of. You have worked on several different articles in the last day or two, I I can't spot any that seems to match you rather vague description. But I can assure you that no article to which you saved any edit has been deleted. I can't so easily check for moves. There are several reasons why a page might be moved, but most of them do not involve any plan to delete the page or the information on it. Please more information about what you were editing. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 19:19, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Trevortidesserped, I see that Velella moved Now That's What I Call Music! 75 (American series) over a redirect, saying theuy were restoring a hijacked title. You have opened a discussion on their user talk page, which is appropriate action: please wait for them to reply, and if you can't reach consensus, follow dispute resolution. --ColinFine (talk) 19:29, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Reply from User:trevortnidesserped Sorry for not ellaborating. I see that someone has already showed the page, so I don't think I need to do that anymore. Also, ColinFine, thank you for the context, I will wait for feedback.

...

Someone else deleted one of the other pages I made. I give up. I won't make any more contributions because they'll just keep getting deleted. Trevortnidesserped (talk) 22:19, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

@Trevortnidesserped: I'm sorry that you're discouraged. I know that it can be tough to have your work deleted. If you decide to come back, one thing I'd recommend is asking here before you start an article target, so that volunteers here can vet the article topic for you (based on your intended references for the article) before you start your work. That way hopefully you can avoid investing a lot of work into an article that later gets deleted or redirected. Calliopejen1 (talk) 23:15, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

@Calliopejen1: Thanks for stating this! After a few years of editing, I have found a person I would like to write about, for "my very first article". However, I wanted to assured of notability, etc., before I started the project. I had considered asking here, but was not sure if that was acceptable. Now, I can assemble my proofs, with confidence. Thanks again, Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 23:37, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

@Tribe of Tiger: I think someone here (forget where I read this) is trying to start a process/page along these lines. I think it's a great idea because most of the stuff that gets declined at AFC never should have been written in the first place (as a reviewer, I start by scrolling down to references, and many many articles get declined without me even needing to look at the article content). But until the process is started up, I'm sure Teahouse folks would be happy to help. Calliopejen1 (talk) 23:39, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

@Calliopejen1: I have wondered about that, myself. I think it would be better, for everyone, if we had a system where a prospective article could receive an "okay" in regards to notability, before the editor goes to the trouble of writing it. Having read the Teahouse over the years, this is a dreadfully disappointing situation for a new editor. They may produce a "technically acceptable" article, only to be informed that the subject is non-notable. I think we are putting the cart before the horse. A vetting system would reduce new editor frustration, (and increase new editor retention) as well as decreasing the workload on AFC and NPP. Whew! Anyway, that is why I wish to be assured of notability, first, before I write an article.Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 00:25, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

I've moved the above three level-3 heading sections up here. Please try to edit your existing section when relevant instead of starting a new section. —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 23:51, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Painting deleted- is this correct, thanks

Hi, I had recently contributed a painting (with correct license, permission from artist) to the page of Madhava the mathematician.

However the painting was removed stating that there's no way to verify that the person looked thus. As a new editor I have turned to you to ask for help in understanding :)

Would that not be true in all cases (unless a direct potrait). Furthermore, all aspects of the painting is attributable. Thanks Imagetoimageless (talk) 15:51, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Imagetoimageless. I see you have already posted at Talk:Madhava of Sangamagrama, which is the right place to do it; and Deacon Vorbis has replied. Your next step is to discuss it with them. Many articles about historical figures are decorated with paintings that were made long after they lived, and there is no reason to suppose they are good likenesses; but generally these are pictures which are widely known to represent the person. If I understand it, you are presenting a modern painting, and Wikipedia has no way to verify that Madhava is the subject. (

However, I'm also concerned about the licence: has the picture appeared in a public place (such as the artist's website) with an explicit statement that it has been licensed under CC-BY-SA 2.5? If not, has the artist sent an explicit release to Wikimedia Commons according to Donating copyright materials? If not, then it is not free media, and should not have been uploaded to Commons. Whether or not the artist has given permission for it to be used is irrelevant: all that matters is if the copyright owner (who is presumably the artist) has released it under a suitable licence, so that anybody may reuse it for any purpose. --ColinFine (talk) 18:28, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi ColinFine, thanks for all helping me to understand this. I will discuss with the artist to make sure the correct license and also attribution to the subject is applied. Will check how she can send donate it etc... Currently a letter exists that provides the license. Thanks

Accusation of copyright violation

I have been accused of having committed a copyright violation. I dispute that so I'm seeking a second opinion. The relevant discussion is at this talk page: User talk:Diannaa#Copyright. What I've done is that I have taken three sentences from a book, which I have rephrased and inserted into a wiki article and then linked to the book using the <ref> syntax. I don't think I have violated either American copyright law nor wiki policies both because the small number of rephrased sentences and because I added a reference to the source used. I think this issue is principally important because if what I've done is disallowed by policies, then I don't see how one could properly cite sources at all.ImTheIP (talk) 16:19, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Hello, ImTheIP, and welcome to the Teahouse.

Please read Wikipedia:Close paraphrasing where it days that Close paraphrasing is the superficial modification of material from another source. Editors should generally summarize source material in their own words ... and goes on to say that Limited close paraphrasing is appropriate within reason, as is quoting, so long as the material is clearly attributed in the text ... Limited close paraphrasing is also appropriate if there are only a limited number of ways to say the same thing. Close paraphrasing without in-text attribution may constitute plagiarism, and when extensive (with or without in-text attribution) may also violate Wikipedia's copyright policy, ...

Note that in this version of Students for Justice in Palestine you provided a source citation, but you did not provide in-text attribution. That would be something like "as David Feldman recounts in Boycotts Past and Present" in the article prose text, not just in a footnote. The degree and quantity of close paraphrasing permitted in an article ism something of a judgement call, and User: Diannaa is an editor very experienced in copyright issues here. Note also that Wikipedia policy on copyright and copying is intentionally stricter than US copyright law requires, or than common academic practice, to deal with the majority of editors not begin identified by legal names or identities know outside of Wikipedia. The place to discuss whether this paraphrase was too close or too long would be Talk:Students for Justice in Palestine, but it looks to ne as if a significantly less clsoe paraphrase would be possible. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 17:49, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

ImTheIP, I read the section on Diannaa's talk page and agree with her assessment completely. I also agree with the other editors who commented there. The majority of the content you added was identical to the source and in the same order, with only minor wording changes. Our job as Wikipedia editors is to summarize our sources in our own words, not to repeat them almost verbatim. You always have the option of directly quoting a source, although quotes should be used sparingly. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 18:14, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Image removed

I had added an image into an article, from the public domain archive.org, there is an overzealous administrator who reverted the changes after I had done the change because he did'nt like the language I used to reply him, albeit it was harsh, not personal.

I had not violated any copyright rules and I have not vandalized the said article.

The said image was pulled from archive.org and there is not obvious copyright assertions. Now I have reservations about the image currently used under the claims of creative common license. The said website does not own the image and there is no proof of such. How can I get a clarification on this issue of overzealous self certified administrators. Srajakumar (talk) 16:28, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Srajakumar and welcome to the teahouse.

This seems to be about the image File:Sridevi.jpg.jpg, which it seems that you uploaded to commons and then added to the article Sridevi. It has been tagged for deletion as a copyright violation on commons, and that is where the effective debate, if any, will take place, not here. However I can enlighten you a bit on Wikipedia copyright policy and US copyright law.

You say above that the image is from the public domain archive.org. But most images on archive.org are not in the public domain, and there is no statement on your listed source page (https://archive.org/details/Sridevi53/) that this image, or any image on that page, is in the public domain or has been relased under any free license. Indeed most content on archive.org is copied from elsewhere on the wab and that site neither claims a copyright not purports to release the copyrights of others. 17 USC sec 102 says Copyright protection subsists, in accordance with this title, in original works of authorship fixed in any tangible medium of expression, now known or later developed, from which they can be perceived, reproduced, or otherwise communicated, either directly or with the aid of a machine or device. 17 USC sec 101 says A work is “created” when it is fixed in a copy or phonorecord for the first time; where a work is prepared over a period of time, the portion of it that has been fixed at any particular time constitutes the work as of that time, and where the work has been prepared in different versions, each version constitutes a separate work. No copyright notice is required for copyright protection under US law (or under the law of any country signatory to the Berne convention). See https://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html for detail. Wikipedia policy is that only images (and text) created by the uploader, explicitly released under a free license by the copyright holder, or verifiably in the public domain (such as items whose copyright has expired, works of the US Federal government, etc) are considered free. Some images may be used under a claim of fair use, subject to the terms of WP:NFCC, but almost never images of living people, except possibly historic images.

I would add that under out policy against legal threats, comments such as These kind of assertion will get thrown out in the court of law. ... Lets call the legal team in San Francisco to get involved and yall can sort this issue out. are approaching a level that merits a block on its own.

Do understand that Wikipedia policy on copyrights is stricter than US copyright law demands. There are various reasons for that, but as a private site, Wikipedia may set its policies as it wishes, so,long as it does not violate the law. It may restrict users from posting in whatever ways it chooses. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 17:27, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi everyone!

Hello Wikipedia! I don’t really have a question - I just thought I would introduce myself to the community as a newbie editor before I get started (and I hope that’s OK :)

I suppose I could use some guidance about how I can help, for what it’s worth. Any any rate, hi everyone! I’m glad to be here. Anablerry (talk) 16:38, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi there, Anablerry. Welcome to Wikipedia and to the Teahouse. I've left a welcome message for you on your userpage. You might also like to try out The Wikipedia Adventure - it's our interactive tour with 15 different 'badges' you can collect along the way as you learn the basics. Pop back anytime you need any help or guidance, and remember that it's often best to start slowly by making small changes to articles, rather than rushing in and getting all muddled up. Regards from the UK, Nick Moyes (talk) 16:46, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Translations

Hello! I want to thank you for the invite! I was a Wikipedia several years ago before the "Drafting process" had been implemented. My interests have grown since as well. I shave studied Portuguese for a year and a half now and enjoy the language so much that I will be pursuing college in Brazil once I get married and receive my citizenship. I went to Wikipedia while writing an article about Wiktionary accuracy for a magazine I work for. I found an article while perusing Portuguese Wikipedia called Ann Syrdal which had no equivalent on English Wikipedia yet. I decided to translate the article for fun and try to publish it to EN before realizing that there was a whole new and unfamiliar system of editing and publishing. It would get published anyway with the help of my translation but I wonder about a couple things:

1. When did the drafting process come into effect? I couldn't find any specific timeline. Although it was a little inconvenient since I had yet to understand it, I feel like it is a particularly good checks-and-balance system.

2. Where do I find lists of drafts? When I searched Ann Syrdal, I could not find my own draft but could only go there when I typed Draft:Ann Syrdal directly.

3. What issues do editors face when translating articles into English? Do different language Wikis have different policies? What should I be weary about when translation articles so as to not produce an unusable version for the main site?

4. The final copy of Ann Syrdal is missing a New York Times source and had some irrelevant information removed but other irrelevant information (such as parent names) kept. I tried to keep it as concise as possible. Was I wrong in keeping The New York Times source in the translation as per WP:OR?

5. I wish to continue doing this because of the amount of fun and good practice it is. Is there a way to see Portuguese Wikipedia articles that do not have English translations yet? Is there a masterlist? MichaelIsAlwaysreal (talk) 18:09, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

@MichaelIsAlwaysreal: welcome back. I can't answer all your questions, but for translations into english see WP:TRANSLATE and for translations out of english see WP:TRANSLATEUS. Each Wikipedia has its own rules and guidelines for what is needed for an article. What may be acceptable in the Portuguese Wikipedia may not be acceptable here and vice-versa. RudolfRed (talk) 18:38, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Hello, MichaelIsAlwaysreal and welcome to the Teahouse, and back to Wikipedia.

I will try to answer several of your questions by number below, bypassing the ones where I have too little experience or knowledge.

1. The draft namespace was created following the success of the proposal Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)/Archive 107#Proposed new Draft namespace in late 2013. But the Articles for creation process existed for several years prior to that, using the Wikipedia talk namespace, in a rather awkward way. It was originally devised to permit IP editors to create drafts for articles even though they could no longer (after the Sigenthaler incident) create pages directly in the main article space. It was soon expanded to attempt to help inexperienced editors with creating articles. It has never been, and is not now, required. (Also, the previous use of userspace drafts was not so very different from the use of draft space.) Any autoconfirmed user may if s/he so chooses, create an article directly in the mainspace. However, I do not advise it. Indeed although i have been active here for over 15 years, I always start new articles in draft space (although I do not use AfC reviews) because I cannot create even a minimally acceptable artifice in a single edit, and it is my opinion that few editors can do so.

2. I don't know of any single master list of drafts, and if there were one, it would almost surely be too long to be very useful. Special:Search will find drafts provide that the draft name space is one of those listed in the "search in" pull-down. By default it is not listed. Also, if you start to create a new article, and there is a draft with the exact same name, a notice pops up informing the editor and offering the chance to work on the draft instead. That is, if Draft:Example exists, a notice will be shown if a user tries to create Example.

3. Different language versions of Wikipedia often ahve very different policies and customs, particularly in regard to sourcing and notability. An acceptable article on one Wikipedia may not be acceptable on another. I can't really speak to what other problems are faced by translators.

4. If a sources is relevant to the article I don't see how including it could ever be WP:OR. I am not sure I fully understand this question.

5. I don't know of any such master list, but someone else might.

I hope all that is a bit helpful. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 18:50, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

@LordPeterII:, here is an editor who speaks Portuguese, if you are interested. I think you were looking for casual translators? Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 23:17, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

@Tribe of Tiger: Indeed I was! Thanks for pinging me, and although atm I have no urgent need for a Portuguese translation, you never know what tomorrow might bring!

@MichaelIsAlwaysreal: I'm afraid this is slightly off topic, but if you are eager to work on translations would you consider adding your name at the translators available page? That way, other users (like me, potentially, in the future) could contact you if they need help with some translation (e.g. of a source only available in Portuguese).

Back on topic: About your question 5 - there somewhat is, but not about completely missing, just about incomplete articles: W:Category:Articles_needing_translation_from_Portuguese_Wikipedia There's a whopping 1188 articles (at the time of this writing) that could be expanded from Portuguese there, so that's likely enough for a lifetime ^^ If you are looking for entirely missing articles, I think your best bet would be to do a Wikidata query, but you would need to ask for help with that because I do not know how to formulate such a complex query. Good luck anyway, and I personally appreciate your translation efforts (I try to do the same with German articles from time to time) :) --LordPeterII (talk) 00:09, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

For a previous discussion on Ann Syrdal, see User_talk:MichaelIsAlwaysreal#Ann Syrdal and User talk:Mitch Ames#Ann Syrdal. Mitch Ames (talk) 14:36, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

How to cite pages from a book, but also websites in the same article

Greetings, I'm back again for another question. This time it's about citation styles, and a draft I am working on. Basically, I have two types of sources: Websites, which I can only quote in their entirety, and books, which are so large that merely quoting them without adding a page number would basically shred verifiability. Thus, I looked around how to do that without it becoming a nigh-incomprehensible mess, and stumbled about this article and its reference section: The_Level,_Brighton#References

I found that to read pretty nicely, because it managed book pages through page references + bibliography, and websites directly and just once. But after reading on it seems I would be discouraged from doing it that way (see Wikipedia:Parenthetical_referencing#Consistency), and reading up about Harvard citation style this article: Climate_change#Notes was named as an example page which uses it correctly. However, I found that section to be incredibly hard to read, as it would also link to websites as if they were books - and I can't even do that "Harvard sytle" for some of my sources, because the websites do not have a definite author!

So basically, my question is: Am I allowed to cite in the same way as is done on the "The Level, Brighton" page linked above? Because I would very much prefer that, and personally do not see how that would confuse anyone. And if not, I would need another solution on how to include both types of sources (with pages and without) in my article. LordPeterII (talk) 20:11, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Hello, LordPeterII and welcome to the Teahouse.

You can use any of several different citation styles in a new draft, but you should be consistent in using whatever style you choose.

• You may use footnoted, templated (CS1 or CS2) citations. In this case each reference would be inside a set of <ref>...</ref> tags. When citing a web site, use {{cite web}} or perhaps {{cite news}}. When citing a book, use {{cite book}}. When citing a magazine, use {{cite magazine}}. There are other specialized templates as well. For a book, or any source that has numbered pages use |page= (or |pages=) to indicate the page number cited. (There are also ways to handle it if you make citations to several different pages of the same book in the article, mostly using {{rp}}.)
• You may use Parenthetical referencing There are several versions of this, but in general a short indicator of the source name is shown in the text of the article, and these then link to a longer fuller citation. The indicators for books and other paginated sources will include a page number, the ones for unpaginated sources do not. If you use this, you should use it for all citations, and you should in fact use the same variant of it for all citations in the draft/article.
• You may use some other style, if you choose, than either of the above.
• What you should not do is mix two or more different styles. Many find this confusing, and any editor may freely change the citations to a single consistent style. It appears that this is what the The_Level,_Brighton article does. As wp:CITEVAR says: Generally considered helpful ... mposing one style on an article with inconsistent citation styles (e.g., some of the citations in footnotes and others as parenthetical references): an improvement because it makes the citations easier to understand and edit;.

The CS1 templated and footnoted style is probably the most commonly used style on Wikipedia. It allows for specifying the page numbers for books and other paginated sources, while not doing so for paginated sources like web sites. But if you want to use some mother consistent style, you may. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 20:39, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

I would add that when using "Harvard" style you may assign a website or other source where no author is known a name, and use that. I would also say that Harvard style IMO works best when all or most citations are to a book, journal article or similar source. It was invented for academic papers in which pretty much all citations would be to books or journal articles, and none would be to sources without stated authors. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 20:46, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks DESiegel, so as per your suggestion I will not use what was done on that Brighton article. That confirms my suspicion that it was shunned upon (although temping). I should note that I have hitherto almost exclusively used CS1 style for referencing, and had no intention of using Harvard if not necessary. My only worry is now: When I use CS1, I can indeed specify a page within a book. However, I would have to repeat that every time I quote that book again on a different page, thus producing "inflationary" amounts of references to that book which repeat all the other information (name, author, publisher etc.) and only changes the page. I assume that could be acceptable if it only happens a few times, but if I quote the book say 20 times (on different pages), it would become a mess. There is no way around that, is there? Like by just specifying a page, and otherwise using the general named ref of the book? Whoops! I almost overlooked that at first, but that {{rp}} thing you linked to is exactly what I was looking for. I also just read that my problem is acknowledged behind the scenes and being worked on. Using refpage for now will solve the problem, and in the future I might be able to use "subpages" directly from the cite book template. That's certainly good news! So thanks again, problem solved :) --LordPeterII (talk) 21:47, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

@LordPeterII: DESiegel really knows his stuff! Personally (and many others feel the same (see this lengthy, ongoing debate)) I find our tolerance of multiple citation formats across articles both confusing and quite irritating. I frequently cite books, journals, websites and news media all within one article (e.g. Mont Blanc massif). I simply add inline citations using the big, obvious 'Cite' button provided within our editing tool. I select the relevant template to use and paste in either the DOI, ISBN or url to 'autofill' the majority of the details (by clicking the magnifying glass icon next to it), and then manually tidy up any loose ends. I prefer not to use our Visual Editor to create content, preferring the WP:Source Editor instead as it allows me to choose my own memorable 'Ref name' so its easy to reuse the same reference again and again within one article. I made my own little guide and video on this- see WP:ERB. Good luck, whatever method you choose. Nick Moyes (talk) 22:00, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

@Nick Moyes: Yeah indeed, as a beginner I too find it slightly confusing, though I know the issue from real life (a few of my lecturers in university prefer - and demand - a slightly different citation style than the majority, and occasionally there's even a third opinion on how citations should look). And as much as I agree about the benefits of having a unified citation style, I don't have the energy to participate in that discussion ^^. I'll just stick to CS1 because with the {{rp}} extension it is sufficiently convenient for anything, and hope that the meta-people will phabricate something that makes quoting individual pages even more pleasing to the eye. But... as weird as it sounds, I had hitherto actually cited everything in source and by hand, meaning I typed in "|" followed by the attribute I wanted, followed by an equal sign and the value and so forth. That is... cumbersome, but for some weird reason I thought the automatic "cite" functionality would not work in source editor. Now thanks to you I know it does, and I will probably use it henceforth (I mean I can still add in stuff manually later if needed). Your video/page is also quite good as a tutorial, indeed better than the official tutorial page which maybe is less of a tutorial than a general explanation/introduction. I shall bookmark that page and point newcomers there myself, maybe alongside the official page. --LordPeterII (talk) 22:45, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

@LordPeterII: I was not expecting you to join in the discussion - just to appreciate how we have so many different view. One Manual of Style on everything except citations, it would seem. You and I are alike in that I also began life here creating references totally by hand for the first year or so, until I somehow discovered the Cite Button. I think at the time I started it was an option you had to actively select. (About as useful as asking those at the back of the room to put their hand up if they can't hear me!) Yes, the {{rp}} template does it for me, too. For elegance on the page, I like to position those references without the rp template first, then put the rp refeences in afterwards. Two other little tips for you: i) If you tend to use the same sources again and again in articles, it pays to create a sandbox page in which to keep the text that you can then copy/paste in, just adding the rp template for the relvant page number(s) (my example, and ii) There's a tool in the editing bar in our basic WP:Source Editor that lets you call up and reuse a citation, without having to type anything at all. Look for 'Named references' in the toolbar, position your cursor at the end of the relvant sentence, then click the Clipboard icon to its right to see all your references you've give a 'refname' to. (I only discovered that facility last year, and I've been editing here over 10 years!) Nick Moyes (talk) 23:43, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

@Nick Moyes: Nice, I shall keep that in mind as well! Guess I can spend more time on actually writing articles from now on :) --LordPeterII (talk) 00:16, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

DYK

In order to nominate an article for DYK, a. do I have to review another DYK? How do I do that? b. Where do I write the hook – where it says "hook" or where it says "ALT1"? Charlie Smith FDTB (talk) 20:58, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Charlie Smith FDTB, provided the article in question complies with all WP:DYKRULES and WP:DYKSG, you can nominate it at WP:DYKNOM. For more info on the DYK process, see WP:DYK and Help:How to write the perfect "Did you know" hook. Also, what article are you thinking of nominating? Giraffer (munch) 21:42, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Thank you. I was thinking of nominating Moshe Rosenstain and Yeshivas in World War II.Charlie Smith FDTB (talk) 21:45, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, Charlie Smith FDTB. I think my reply to you got overwritten in an 'editing conflict', so I'm just popping it back again: You get your first 5 DYK nominations free, with no need to review another one. After the first five, you are expected to do one review for each of your own nominations. This is the QPQ - quid pro quo - you'll have seen mention of. As I recall, your hook goes where it says Hook. But if you have an idea(s) for an alternative hook(s), thet go in ALT1, then ALT2 etc. (I found the instructions for my first DYK to be harder to follow than creating my first article! Good luck. Nick Moyes (talk) 21:35, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Thank you very much. Charlie Smith FDTB (talk) 22:09, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

I tried nominating an article at Template:Did you know nominations/Yeshivas in World War II but I don't know if it worked. Can you please check? Charlie Smith FDTB (talk) 22:48, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

@Charlie Smith FDTB: You've still got one more key step to take. Having created the individual nomination, that is really only a sub-page, and you now need to stick that page inside the master page of all nominations. It might sound scary, but it's actually quite a simple process of 'transcluding' your nomination, so that it is physically embedded within the master page (not just copy/pasted), which means that any changes to your individual page also appear (live) at Template talk:Did you know. (I know this may seem counter-intuitive to be posting within a talk page, but it's a template's talk page, not a users or an articles - it's ok.)   Like I said, if you follow the official guidelines it's very complicated. I recommend these Instructions for 'Did You Know' that a normal human being can understand. Don't forget you should then also put the DYK nomination into your article's talk page, too. Make sure you watch your individual nomination page as that's where you'll get feedback or concerns raised. You'll probably need to indicate whether you either don't need to do QPQ, or link to the article concerned if you have done one. From memory, isn;t there a field in the template QPQ= but he tip is to look back at earlier nominations and follow how they have been done. You have 7 days from the time of your article's creation to submit your nomination, so you've plenty of time to sort this out. If you need further help from me specifically, please WP:PING me in any reply here (i.e. by including both my username and by signing your post within the same edit. Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 08:32, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

@Nick Moyes:Thank you. I transcluded it under Template talk:Did you know#Articles created/expanded on August 21. Is that all I need to do? Charlie Smith FDTB (talk) 17:11, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

@Charlie Smith FDTB: Well done for doing that! If you look at the other, earlier nominations, you'll see each nominator has added a field 'Reviewed:' and then either indicated that they have made under 5 DYK nominations, or they've linked to the page that they have already reviewed - so you do need to add that, as appropriate. I've also added your DYK nomination to the talk page of Yeshivas in World War II. (Perhaps I could comment that (as an ignoramus on Jewish culture - and, indeed, many other things), I was confused that the lead didn't explain what Yeshivas are, and that it linked to a different word, yeshivos, which took me to Yeshiva. So forgive my ignorance, but I was left quite confused by the possible masculine/feminine or singular/plural ending confusion as you seemed to switch between '..vos' and '...vas' within the same sentence. I also suggest you expand the lead paragraph to explain in a couple of words what a yeshiva is, then where they were moved from (which isn't mentioned), and the fact that those which didn't leave were killed by the Nazis. If you can stand back and read the lead paragraphs with an open mind, it ought to tell a reader the essence of the story. Obviously, it doesn't help that I didn't know what a yeshiva is/are, but despite that I don't feel the lead really gets over to me the broad picture. So I think this is really worth you working on. Hoping this feedback is of use. Nick Moyes (talk) 18:54, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

@Nick Moyes: I added explanation to the opening paragraph and changed all the "yeshivos" to "yeshivas" (they both are plural for the word "yeshiva". "Yeshivos" is the proper Hebrew grammar, while "yeshivas" pluralizes it with English grammar). As for the reviews (I don't need to because it's my first nomination), I don't known how to add that once the page is already published. Charlie Smith FDTB (talk) 19:28, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

@Charlie Smith FDTB: I've fixed it: it goes into the template that you created. It's possible that you may have gone the other way by perhaps adding a bit too much detail now, but not to worry. Nick Moyes (talk) 20:40, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Thank you. Charlie Smith FDTB (talk) 22:35, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Draft:Irene Lilienheim Angelico

Hi Editor,

Thank you for helping me.

Maurie Alioff, an academic and film reviewer, who has reviewed our films in the past, wrote three articles for submission to wikipedia. He found many references, but was aware that we had archived our old reviews on our website and asked me to fill in the gaps. i did this and then submitted the three articles under my name. This, I have since discovered, was a huge mistake. Can I send the article back to the writer and ask him to submit under his own name?

Also, the Wiki editor wrote that the submission does not show significant coverage in reliable independent sources. He/she particularly mentioned that IMDb is not reliable, so I removed all the IMDb references. But it is not possible that the other coverage is not notable or reliable. For the article on DLI Productions, for example, there are 36 article specifically about various DLI films, not just passing mentions, from newspapers and journals like the New York Times, The Globe and Mail, The Canberra Times, Macleans, the Canadian Forum, The Montreal Gazette, Film Kultura, etc. in nine different languages.

Any suggestion you have will be most welcomed.

Be well,

Irene```` Ireneangelico (talk) 21:07, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Courtesy links to drafts: Draft:Irene Lilienheim Angelico, Draft:Abbey Jack Neidik and a sandbox draft for DLI productions.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 21:21, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

You are not forbidden from submitting an autobiography, although the serious problem is writing about oneself and only including content that is in the references, not what you know to be true. The reviewer of all three (Irene and Abbey Declined, DLI not yet submitted) called out the the heavily promotional tone. And for DLI, the references need to be about DLI, not about the films DLI did. David notMD (talk) 22:47, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

How long does a speedy deletion normally take?

How long does a speedy deletion normally take? So I recently created an article and it was requested for a speedy deletion. I did contest it and I gave a valid reason to contest it. Does anyone know about how long the process takes? Thanks for help in advance. CurrentWeather (talk) 00:09, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi CurrentWeather. It can vary on the type of page that is nominated and the reasons the page was nominated. A page nomimated for copyright reasons or spam reasons might be deleted fairly quickly as soon as some administrator comes across it. If the page you're referring to is Elijah Joyce, then that article has already be deleted per WP:A7 by an adminsitrator named TomStar81. If you look at Template:db-person (which was probably the template that was used), you'll see there's no specific time period that needs to pass before the file can be deleted. So, bascially the process takes as long as it takes for someone other than the aricle's creator who disagrees with the tagging to remove the template or an administrator to review the template. TomStar81 did leave a message on your talk page explaining why he deleted the page; so, perhaps that would be the best place to ask him any further questions if you have any.

I also see you're currently working on Draft:Elijah Joyce. The article seems to be about a high school athlete and all of the sources you cited seem to be from the high school newspaper of Dayton Christian where Joyce is a student. I'm not sure how many articles about high school athletes are created, even record-setting athletes, when the primary coverage about them seems to be mainly limited to their high school newspaper per WP:NSPORT and WP:YOUNGATH. You'll probably have a better chance at establishing Joyce's Wikipedia notability if you can show that he has received covered regionally or nationally. You can keep working on the draft if you want, but if it's basically a recreation of the article that was deleted, then it seems unlikely to be accepted by WP:AFC if you submit for review, or likely to be mominated or tagged for deletion again if you WP:MOVE the page to the article namespace yourself. Joyce may have a great career ahead of him in competitive swimming, but it might be WP:TOOSOON to try and create an article about him at this point. Maybe try asking about this at WP:SWIMMING to see if any of the members of that WikiProject have any suggestions on how to further improve your draft. -- Marchjuly (talk) 00:44, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

@CurrentWeather: For CSD the time frame is usually whenever the spirit moves an admin to go through the log page and start clearing it out or whenever an RC-patrolling admin spots an edit summary with deletion related material and moves to pounce on it. It can take a matter of seconds or it can be a days long affair, it just depends. As far as successfully contesting goes, that depends on the material, the tag, and the admin. In a best case an article stays, but this is usually rare, in most cases an article is axed and in a few cases the admins file for AFD. In all cases though those who would contest are usually asked to be familiar the guidelines and policies which apply to the article's material and as a show of good faith are asked to be familiar with Wikipedia:Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions and User:ReaderofthePack/Common notability arguments as those of us who swing axes grow very frustrated with the having explain for the umpteenth time why such and such an argument doesn't work. TomStar81 (Talk) 01:15, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

TomStar81 you wrote above: In a best case an article stays, but this is usually rare, ...} Not so rare as all that. When I patrol CSD , I find that depending on the sub category, I decline 1/4 to 1/3, sometimes as many as 1/2 of the tags. Look at Special:Contributions/DESiegel and search for "Speedy declined" to get some idea, although this won't show pages later deleted via PROD or AfD (or XfD). I am seeing some 22 declines in my last 500 edits and 24 deletions over the same time period (since 11 Aug). Of course I am probably not representative of all admins on this issue. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 01:33, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

CurrentWeather, I think that the overwhelming majority of Wikipedia administrators would have speedily deleted this article about a run-of-the-mill high school athlete without any hesitation. Please read and study Wikipedia's notability guideline for athletes. It is very rare although not impossible for a high school athlete to qualify for a Wikipedia biography. If he had set a world record instead of a school record, then that would probably qualify him. The example that comes to mind is LeBron James, who went straight from high school to professional basketball. His Wikipedia biography was created in 2003 right around the time he graduated from high school, but before he had played professionally. However, he had already been on the cover of Sports Illustrated by then. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 05:54, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Comment: Irrespective of this particular case, the problem we have created for ourselves is that users whose pages are tagged for WP:CSD are provided with a nice shiny blue button on Template:Db, clearly seeming to allow them to contest deletion, and then a helpful notice on their talk page, too. But if I come along 10 minutes later and delete the page, they've had no chance to interact. Either we should give users a chance to contest, or we should not give it to them in the first place, but simply explain why their content has been summarily executed removed. It's a waste of my time contesting deletion if, once I've finished drafting my comments to contest it, I find the page has already been deleted. At the very least, we should consider changing the user talk page message fromn "This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted." to "Whilst this might give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it is often removed without delay." Nick Moyes (talk) 10:05, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

User:Nick Moyes and anyone else - I suggest that the instructions for administrators who are reviewing speedy deletion nominations include an instruction to look at the talk page to see if there is an appeal. I think that would be a simple and reasonable addition to the procedures. The large majority of speedy deletion nominations are valid, and the majority of appeals contesting speedy deletions are of no real value, but occasionally a speedy deletion nomination is either mistaken (or actually done to make a point) or should go to AFD. I think it is just common sense to include that in the instructions for deleting administrators. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:40, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

In the specific case of Elijah Joyce, the author not only contested the deletion, twice, but removed the speedy deletion tag, although the instructions say clearly not to do that. What we have here appears to be an editor who doesn't understand what is meant by notability. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:40, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

John Dehner

Hi,

Could someone add to the John Dehner page the great part he played in the Andy Griffith Show? He was Colonel Harvey in the episode March 11, 1963 "Aunt Bee's Medicine Man".

Thank you 69.207.147.158 (talk) 02:36, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but we don't normally add every guest appearance performed unless WP:reliable sources have found it notable and written about it. —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 03:30, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

While I agree with you AlanM1, in principle, this is a bit of an interesting case because the infobox photo used claims its's from the Andy Griffith Show; so, it seems there should be at least some mention of this appearance somewhere in the article (obviously supported by a source) beside the infobox image caption. -- Marchjuly (talk) 04:12, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

@Marchjuly: I don't know. The section is supposedly a "Selected Filmography", but appears to be exhaustive, including uncredited roles, and completely uncited. I know there's a push (or there was) among the film folks to trim down exactly this type of article. OTOH, "one more won't hurt". I guess. —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 06:18, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

​I thought the same thing about that section as well. It probably started out as "selected", but got expanded more and more over time. Anyway, I was thinking that a mention would work better in first paragraph of John Dehner#Televison along with the other shows mentioned. -- Marchjuly (talk) 06:21, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Citing IMDb

AlanM1 and Marchjuly, If I may branch off a bit from the original question, I found this discussion interesting because I frequently see actors' and actresses' biographies that include (either in the text or in a filmography) numerous guest appearances on TV shows. They seldom have citations, and the few that are cited usually use IMDb or ctva.com, both of which are unreliable sources. I keep thinking the appearances should be reliably cited. Similarly, my watchlist almost daily shows guest appearances added to articles, again with no citation. What (if anything) should I do in those circumstances? Eddie Blick (talk) 01:00, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

@Teblick: I wish I knew. It's one of those glaring inconsistencies between reality and apparent policy against uncited, unverifiable content, not to mention indiscriminate collection of trivial information (all due respect to the artists, but relative to the overall aim of encyclopedic notability and quality, it seems pretty wrong). I think a concerted effort by a team of editors to go out and clean it up would be necessary, but I imagine there is significant objection to wholesale deletion of uncited content. I'm not sure what should constitute the criteria for selection of works, either. I don't see anything wrong with stopping new additions to the pile if they're not cited and obviously notable, though. No doubt a discussion that should be (and likely has been) held at WT:FILM. —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 01:45, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

AlanM1, I appreciate your comments. I am one who likes to have a source for everything I put in an article, so I sometimes feel frustrated seeing masses of information with not apparent support. By the way, in an interesting coincidence, not long after I joined this discussion, I found an edit to Johnny Sheffield in my watchlist. An editor removed a "citation needed" template with the edit summary "Citation request is frivilous. A glance at filmography proves the point." Thus, we have an statement in the text that is supposedly verified by an uncited entry in the article's filmography. Eddie Blick (talk) 01:59, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Hi Teblick. IMDb is generally considered unreliable per WP:UGC, WP:EL/P#IMDb, and WP:RS/IMDB, but in some cases it might be OK if it's discussed and the consensus seems to think it is. Where IMDb is usually helpful is that it provides the names of the TV shows or films (sometimes even the year and episode name) an actor has appeared in which means that it could lead you to other more reliable secondary sources. Even if it leads you tracking down a copy of the show/film and you watch it yourself, you could cite the actual show as a source per WP:SAYWHERE. I did this once for an article in which it was claimed that the subject was connected to the film A.I. Artificial Intelligence. I looked for secondary online sources for verification and when I couldn't find any, I watched the film (again) and looked at the credits. The subject wasn't mentioned by name at all so there was no way to verify the claim and it was removed.

It all might come down to the nature of the actual content and how IDMb is being cited. If the primary claim for Wikipedia notability is that the subject has an IMDb page or their Wikipedia notability is otherwise iffy and no other secondary sources can be found, then IMDb has pretty much zero value in my opinion. If the subject's Wikipedia notability is well-established (perhaps an actor from an era way before IMDb existed) and IMDb is just being used to cite certain entries in a filmography section, then perhaps adding a template like {{Better source needed}} or {{More citations needed section}} is sufficient to let others know of the problem without removing large blocks of content. If you follow the latter approach and someone objects and removes the content anyway, then you will need to be the one to establish a consensus to re-add it because at that point someone is saying that IMDb is clearly insufficient to support the claim. -- Marchjuly (talk) 02:20, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Marchjuly, I admire your dedication to tracking down other sources. I had been going by the IMDb comments on Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources and just replacing IMDb citations with "Citation needed" templates. Now I see that I was in error, so I will let them stand in the future and look for other kinds of improvements instead.Eddie Blick (talk) 02:52, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Not really that dedicated to be honest. That movie just happened to be on cable around the same time I was trying to verify that bit of information; so, I just DVRd it and watched it again. I wouldn't say your approach is wrong; in fact, it's probably more correct than not. If someone re-adds the citations you removed, then use the talk page and explain why you removed them. I know pretty much every bit of information in an article is required to be sourced; however, if the actors appearance in a film or TV show is significant and there's sufficient sourced commentary about the role earlier in the article (or at least a sourced mention), then perhaps another source isn't needed for the table. This would be sort of a tweaked application of WP:CITELEAD. If, on the other hand, the entry is not covered earlier in the article and not sourced anywhere else, like the article about the film itself, then perhaps the WP:CSC should be that it needs a proper source to be kept. -- Marchjuly (talk) 03:03, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Citing sources - Having a link from a reference link, not just bibliography

Hi,

I have included citations for information contained on a particular page. I thought I followed how to insert sources correctly - and it appears to have done so with the bibliography, as it is listed the same way as everyone else's, and you can click on the titles of the article and be taken to the article direct. My issue is that while the author's last name and reference is coming up in the reference list, it does not link to the article - how do I fix this? The display is also not quite right in the reference list - it has an additional & - and I am following the template and what I see everyone else has done, so stuck as to how to fix it! footnotes 43-45 in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_of_William_Shakespeare

Any assistance would be much appreciated! – Nectarine4505 (talk) 05:30, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Nectarine4505, I have two comments:

• References should follow punctuation marks, not precede them.
• It's not clear why the views of the non-notable Kauffman warrant an entire paragraph. A second paragraph, about a play written by Kauffman, is certainly not warranted. I see that Diannaa has already removed material which seems intended to promote Kauffman. Maproom (talk) 06:35, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

(ec) @Nectarine4505:  Fixed at Special:Diff/974652534. I removed the comma after the years. The page numbers needed the parameter name |pp=, e.g.:

{{sfn|Kauffman|2018,|1-87}} → {{sfn|Kauffman|2018|pp=1-87}}

The Kauffman 2018a ref in the bib had a date of January 2018 instead of 2018a, and did not have the |ref=harv parameter. I don't know if there's a better way of doing multiple sources for the same author and year, but others in the article were done this way (by adding a letter to the year). —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 06:43, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Thank you! Your suggestions are super helpful - I can now see that one of the references in the reference list now comes up with the bibliography information when you hover over it (footnote 44), but not the other couple? Any ideas of what I need to do to fix this?Nectarine4505 (talk) 07:28, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

@Nectarine4505: If I check it with a non-logged-in Win10 desktop Chrome browser, I get the bib info popup for all four Kaufman refs (and many others I tried) unless the bib entry is also visible on the screen at the time, in which case it highlights that bib entry in light blue (same as it does if you click on the short ref). Is that maybe what's happening? If I use my logged-in Firefox, because I have Navigation Popups enabled, that's the popup I get, unfortunately. —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 08:21, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

I am not sure? I logged out and had a look - and the actual bibliography seems to be working - yay - but the reference list, only 44 if you hover over it pops up? The other ones nothing is still showing for me...I cannot work it out as far as I can see all the references are listed the same...so not sure what the difference is?Nectarine4505 (talk) 09:28, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Copy paste content

The article 1957 Ramnad riots has an entire section called 'Events during riots' which doesn't cite any sources however further digging I found this one and the entire sections is a exact copy paste from this source, another problem is that that mentioned source doesn't seem to be reliable either(but not sure about it). Anyway this a blatant copyright violation. What should be done in this case? JagatRaxak (talk) 07:48, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi JagatRaxak. You'll find some information about this in WP:COPYVIO. You can also request assistance at Wikipedia:Copyright problems. -- Marchjuly (talk) 07:55, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

The link I provided is wrong messed it up, anyways thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JagatRaxak (talk • contribs) 07:57, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

I asked an administrator named Diannaa to take a look at this and she said that other website is a WP:MIRROR of Wikipedia; basically, this means that the content was on Wikipedia first and the other website just copied it. That sometimes happens and it’s OK for the website to do that as long as they attribute to Wikipedia. So, the Wikipedia isn’t infringing on the copyright of the other website. — Marchjuly (talk) 12:18, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Where can I make a complaint to the admins?

So last night I attempted to get an article published. It was speedy deleted and I understand why. So I moved it to a Draft to continue working and improving it. When I woke up, I saw people had begun the process to delete it. I honestly want to make a complaint to the admins because these 2 guys are working to delete a draft that is less than 12 hours old. The reason for the speedy deletion was because I didn't see enough notability. I had about 1/2 of the needed notability shown. So can someone tell me where I can make a complaint to the admins? Thank you. CurrentWeather (talk) 10:48, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

CurrentWeather If your issue involves user behavior, you can go to WP:ANI. However, as an admin I don't really see anything actionable here. You have already gone to the deletion discussion page and raised your objection, and that will be taken into account. If you were to go to ANI it would likely be closed relatively quickly, as users are allowed to propose deletion in good faith. I might opine that an article about a high school athlete sourced only to the high school paper may not meet the definition of a notable high school athlete(which specifically excludes school papers as sources). 331dot (talk) 10:56, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Are you the person you are writing about, or do you know them? 331dot (talk) 10:58, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

I know them and I disclosed that I am close to the topic CurrentWeather (talk) 11:01, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

CurrentWeather while I disagree with the deletion nomination, and have said so in the MfD discussion, the nominator (a very experienced editor) has not violated any policy, guideline, or procedure in making the nomination. I am an admin, and I assure you that any formal complaint would be rapidly dismissed. Any editor who, in good faith thinks that a particular draft harms the project, or qualifies under our deletion policy, may nominate it for deletion at an MfD discussion. All interested editors may give their views. The discussion will last for at least 7 days, and may be continued beyond that. If, and only if, there is a consensus to delete it, it will be deleted. Even after that, it can be undeleted if significant new information comes to light. While drafts are not automatically deleted unless they are untouched for 6 months, they are not immune from deletion by consensus at any point.

If you have sources that indicate better than those already in the draft, I urge you to mention those sources, with links if possible, in the MfD and describe in what way they make Joyce significant. It needs to be something more than setting local HS athletic records, I would think. National or regional coverage would help, or something else out of the ordinary. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 15:04, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Why is this article in the "Wikipedia:" namespace?

I just found this article: [5]

I think it might have been mistakenly placed in the "Wikipedia:" namespace but I am not sure. I am not a regular contributor to the English Wikipedia. --TheRandomIP (talk) 11:00, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

 Resolved GeraldWL ✉ 11:02, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

How do i change our company logo that is showing please?

Hi How do i change the old company logo showing on wikipedia please Kind regards Jackie Hallewell Jackie Hallewell (talk) 11:28, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Jackie Hallewell, welcome to the Teahouse. If you want your company's Wikipedia's logo to be updated, you can upload one on Wikimedia Commons under a free license, and someone should probably change it. May I ask what article? GeraldWL ✉ 11:36, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Courtesy link MMCG. Theroadislong (talk) 11:47, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

The reply from User:Gerald Waldo Luis is only correct if you wish to release the logo for everyone to use under a free licence. It is more likely that you would wish to use the logo under a fair use exemption, in which case you'll find advice at WP:Logos. --David Biddulph (talk) 13:01, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Oh, and continuation to David's, if you're not the one designing, make sure the design team (or person) allows it. GeraldWL ✉ 13:12, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Sorry, Gerald Waldo Luis, but that's probably not right either. Most logos are uploaded with the non-free content criteria, and that does not require permission from anybody. --ColinFine (talk) 14:07, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

CREATING A NEW PAGE/TOPIC

I am trying to create a new page for my client who owns a roofing company in Pennsylvania. I have edited more than 10 pages in an effort to receive the contributor status necessary to create a page. Can you please explain the process to me in a bit more detail? If I want to create a page about this roofing company, what are the appropriate steps to take? How will I be notified when I am able to publish the page? I appreciate any guidance! TEC2012 (talk) 13:11, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

TEC2012 Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. Since you state that you are editing for a client, you must read the paid editing policy and make the required declaration. (This is a Terms of use requirement and mandatory) You should also read about conflict of interest. Unless you have extensive experience in article creation, you should use Articles for creation to create and submit a draft for review by an independent editor, instead of directly creating it. You should read Your first article and be aware that Wikipedia only summarizes what independent reliable sources with significant coverage have chosen on their own to say about a subject, showing how it meets Wikipedia's special definition of notability Wikipedia has no interest in what the subject wants to say about itself (such as through interviews, press releases, or routine announcements). 331dot (talk) 13:16, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

About "Wikipedia has no interest in what the subject says about himself," I think you mean "limited space for...". Some autobiographical citations may be used, but Wikipedia only allows it for few cases. GeraldWL ✉ 13:22, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Gerald Waldo Luis This isn't referring to citations, but the OP representing their client and telling the world what they want to say about themselves. That's discouraged. 331dot (talk) 15:10, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi TEC2012, welcome to the Teahouse. I would strongly discourage you to make a page about something/someone you have a close connection with; you'll have a conflict of interest which will decrease the level of encyclopedicness and will seem more promotional. I'd suggest you declare your conflict of interest towards said subject at your userpage; it's useful for other editors to know it. See WP:COI for more info.

You may, meanwhile, make more edits to Wikipedia (valuable edits, ofc) and when the time is right, make an article on something you don't have a conflict of interest with. You may think that you don't have a bias on your client, but it may be seen vividly on the final result; I've never seen any COI-backgrounded edits page creations successful. GeraldWL ✉ 13:19, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Gerald Waldo Luis I obviously cannot speak to what you have seen, but COI editors can and do make edits in the correct manner, either as edit requests or through AFC. 331dot (talk) 13:22, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Apologies for the confusion, I meant page creations. Saw the epidemic just today. I am obviously not saying COIers cannot make good edits, I just haven't saw them. I would love to someday. GeraldWL ✉ 13:26, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

An example of a good COI page (for anyone who wishes to see one) is Handschriftencensus, which Blablubbs and I helped create. The main author was Hrobeth Dunbar, who had a disclosed COI. It started as a draft and passed AfC. Giraffer (munch) 13:48, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

@Gerald Waldo Luis:, perhaps this will be of interest. Yes, Giraffer, is correct, and possibly as a result of this initial good experience, with Giraffer and others, Hroberth Dunbar is now editing Lubeck law, and adding proper sources, etc to update a very old and poorly refed article. He even found an image, to enrich the article. Because they were not the sort of editors who would choose to violate our regulations, I have had good experiences with "academic" -type COI editors, that I met through the Teahouse, who have proved very helpful. See the talkpage of Judith Klinman for examples. Thus far, the academics, in my experience, readily understand and accept our COI regulations, plus they know how to provide well-formatted sources! Another Teahouse meeting occurred with JBonnerAnglican, in reference to a stub that had been started on his father, Gerald Bonner. His notes/sources, as stated on the talkpage, enabled me to expand the article. These "good faith" editors, despite their COI, are a benefit to the project. Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 01:50, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks so much for your quick response! I definitely appreciate the concerns with the COI and have read up on that a bit. The purpose of putting the company on Wikipedia isn't for promotional purposes at all. They would just like for their company to have an article in this space. They've been around for nearly ten years, are among the Top 100 Roofing Companies in the US, they've been featured in newscasts in several states on the East Coast and the owner of the company has authored a book on roofing. I know there is a major backlog in getting an article published by someone else and that is why I was hoping to create the article myself. I write content for them only and am not on their staff. Not sure if that helps. What would be your best suggestion for me to try and move this forward? If I don't create the page, who would?

TEC2012 (talk) 13:47, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

I'm sorry, TEC2012, but "they would just like for their company to have an article in this space" is an example of exactly what Wiipedia means by promotion. Wikipedia has essentially no interest in whether somebody wishes there to be an article about them (or, indeed, whether they wish there not to be an article about them). If a consensus of editors agrees that a topic is notable (which requires that there be sufficient independent material about them already reliably published, so an article can be based on that material) then Wikipedia would like to have an article on them, if somebody wants to write it. If there is not sufficient material for them to meet the citeria of notability, then Wikipedia will not accept an article on them. --ColinFine (talk) 14:17, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

I have written two books that are available free to anyone about 'Tom Williamson the Golfer' and 'The History of Hollinwell and Notts. Golf Club'. I would like them to be available to Wikipedia readers.

I have written two books that are available free to anyone about 'Tom Williamson the Golfer' and 'The History of Hollinwell and Notts. Golf Club'. I would like them to be available to Wikipedia readers.

How do I create a link to them on the relevant Wikipedia pages?

There is no advertising related to them. I am the archivist at Hollinwell and these are detailed, referenced and informative. Cacosmia (talk) 13:17, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Cacosmia, Wikipedia is not a place for letting people know about your new work. If the book has information that an editor deems needed for a certain article, they will probably cite it at the claim they wrote. GeraldWL ✉ 13:24, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Cacosmia you might be interested in Wikisource.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 15:26, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Related to AFD voting

Where to find the articles for AFD voting ? Iitianeditor (talk) 13:50, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi Iitianeditor. Try looking at WP:AFD#Current and past articles for deletion (AfD) discussions. — Marchjuly (talk) 14:18, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

AFD discusions are NOT votes; you will sometimes see them described as "!votes". The process is described at WP:Articles for deletion. David Biddulph (talk) 14:23, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Images in infobox showing death / suffering

While reviewing the Killing of George Floyd article I was momentarily struck by the fact we included an image at the top of perhaps the moment he died, was immediately dying, or already dead. While not graphic, it did kind of strike me as odd that maybe this is insensitive and for this article, and others that may be doing something similar, maybe a more neutral image should be selected or omitted entirely. It doesn't bother me personally, and at the same time I do wonder if the image will end up being burned into popular conscience like the Execution of Nguyễn Văn Lém but when looking for other similar events (murder of, execution of, killing of) we either focus on a relatively benign image or do not include one (even if it was broadcast on live TV such as Execution of Saddam Hussein). To be clear, I am not suggesting a scrub of the image - just that perhaps it shouldn't be the top image and we should consider how we present images in the future with some consideration. Anyway, curious as to other peoples thoughts are. Koncorde (talk) 15:06, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Koncorde, see WP:NOTCENSORED. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, an explicit source of information. We don't cover things just because it may cause PTSD. I think it would be doing a disservice if we are not showing the photo. See Wikipedia:Content disclaimer for the disclaimer. GeraldWL ✉ 15:15, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

The image has also been shared globally, so there's no need for a cover-up anyway. GeraldWL ✉ 15:18, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

There is not a question of a cover-up. I explicitly stated "I do wonder if the image will end up being burned into popular conscience". I do question how graphic we are inclined to be. Is there any threshold of sensitivity? Child sex abuse images under the Pedophilia article? Pictures of dead kids in the Columbine High School massacre? Koncorde (talk) 15:50, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Koncorde The proper place to bring this up would be Talk:Killing of George Floyd- where this has been discussed several times. 331dot (talk) 15:29, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

I am specifically not bringing it up there because I am curious as to the wider concept of such images. Koncorde (talk) 15:50, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

As noted, we don't censor images because of the potential to cause distress or offense. There are ways to suppress the display of images for those that are concerned about such things. What you propose would mean that the image of the Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki would need to be moved or removed as it depicts hundreds of thousands of people being vaporized or maimed. 331dot (talk) 15:32, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

There is a difference between "censor" and using a different lead image - bearing in mind we don't seem to follow a standard rule of depicting the most graphic image possible on each article, only on some of them suggesting some editorial censorship is already underway. Should we be actively including such pictures where they can be found? And also there is a clear difference between the dispassionate presentation of the atomic bomb, vs the relative intimacy of Floyds death. Koncorde (talk) 15:50, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

@Koncorde: I think it's more about showing an image most widely associated with the topic, which, in this case, is that one. Coverage in sources routinely use that image. —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 21:30, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

I will abhor changing the lead image, as the lead image is very much the essence of the article's subjects. It makes the readers familiar and ready for what they're going to read below. GeraldWL ✉ 03:23, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

German POWs in America in WWII

There are numerous general accounts of German POWs in America in WWII. I'm trying to find out at which of the roughly 700 camps my father was interned. Sadly, no one in the family remembers where my father told us he was; two relatives think it was in S.C., but my husband and I lean more toward somewhere in the midwest. He talked about harvesting potatoes and beans, and that it was very hot there.

Does anyone know whom I should contact for POW rolls -- if they even exist? 70.35.176.142 (talk) 15:36, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

This question is probably more appropriate for the Reference Desk; this page is to ask questions about using Wikipedia. 331dot (talk) 15:38, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Copyright

I wanted to report copyright / blatant copy paste issue on the page Devendrakula Velalar which has content copied from thispdf in the url however it is not possible to report on page. What is going on? I read insctruction on wikipedia page about tagging copy right issue but editing not possible in that page it seems. JagatRaxak (talk) 17:01, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, JagatRaxak I will look into the issue. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 17:17, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

If you can't edit the article, you can raise the problem at Talk:Devendrakula Velalar. --David Biddulph (talk) 18:05, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

JagatRaxak I have removed the copied text. I considered re-writing it, but the source from whoich it is copied is missing key info such as the author's name, and seems to come from a thesis database, so it may not be a reliable source. I have used revision deletion to hide all revisions of the page (some 155) that included the copied text. The copied content did not have much context in the article in any case, and seemed to me of quite limited value. But this is not a field I claim to know well.

The page was fully protected earlier this month because of extensive edit warring. Edit requests and reports of problems may be made at Talk:Devendrakula Velalar. The page would, in my view, benefit from much work. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 20:08, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Sigh...while you are at it,DESiegel, the "Inscription" section has been closely/mostly copied from the same pdf in the url, see page ten. The only difference, afaict, is a change in names from Pallas to Devendrakula Velalar. I would be willing to try to rewrite this charming story, if someone can confirm the source, re:ibid. It seems to be from K.R.Hanumanthan, as cited in the article? I However, don't understand why Pallas was changed to Devendrakula Velalar. Sorry for the bother. Pinging JagatRaxak also. Tribe of Tiger ^{Let's Purrfect!} 22:25, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Tribe of Tiger Thanks. From what I read on the talk page of this article, at least one editor thinks that "Devendrakula Velalar" is the proper name for the group others call "Pallas". Personally I don't know enough about the topic to have an opinion. The PDF linked above seems to be a chapter of a thesis, dn does not include any author's name. Perhaps the first part would, but I couldn't find that on the site. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 22:30, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Newcomers Real Estate Help

How does a Veteran Real Estate Agent get listed to help newcomers? Chevy409 (talk) 17:28, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Chevy409 Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. I'm not clear on what your question has to do with editing or using Wikipedia, which is the purpose of this forum. Wikipedia is not a directory of real estate agents. Please clarify. 331dot (talk) 17:30, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Wikipedia Change Page name (Move)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonographic_Performance_Limited

Hi, entering genuine edits her in respect of above page. Given valid reasons and cited for page name change but getting a little stuck how to request a page move which has ended up in a threat to block.

Any experienced editors out there that can help out? My goal is to share factual knowledge and expand access to correct information on this page.

My suggested name change is to "PPL - Music Copyright Collection Society" which will identify it for everyone who knows this company. "PPL is the logo of the Company and the name that everyone in the UK who knows it, calls it by - this includes the Company itself, it's 110,000 members (who all state they are members of the "PPL" and all the license fee payers!)

Any help appreciated. Thanks DJ888kmg (talk) 17:50, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

It would be wise for you to read what you were told on your user talk page. You were given a link to WP:Requested moves. --David Biddulph (talk) 18:10, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

How can I upload a photo in an article?

How can I upload a photo in an article? Nasimrezaei1 (talk) 17:57, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

This brochure gives a good overview of the process. I'd caution you, though, that the subject of the draft you're working on does not seem to qualify for a Wikipedia article. See WP:NMUSIC. So I would not invest a lot of time in the draft; you are likely to be disappointed when it is not published. Calliopejen1 (talk) 18:16, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

That includes not uploading a photo until a draft is accepted as an article. David notMD (talk) 19:28, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

@David notMD: I'm not sure I understand your comment. Images are allowed in drafts as long as they are free images (and presumably the only images that would be permitted in this user's draft biography would be free images). Calliopejen1 (talk) 20:11, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

How best to check if a newly created article is 'substantially identical' to a deleted one?

I'm specifically thinking in terms of CSD WP:G4. For instance 'John Taurus' has had a delete result at AfD twice this year, but today I stumbled across Draft:John Tauras. Kj cheetham (talk) 19:03, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

P.S. I know only admins can see deleted versions, so really I'm asking which is the appropriate forum to ask them in. -Kj cheetham (talk) 19:06, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

I can tell you that the draft is exactly the same, just with the filmography table added in. bibliomaniac15 19:22, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Thank you. -Kj cheetham (talk) 19:24, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

How do I improve my article on Mike Siegel?

Hi all! I'm new to editing Wikipedia. I wrote a new article on Draft:Mike Siegel (politician). It has been rejected on grounds of "lack of notability." Now, Siegel is a well-known politician in his state, and has received a lot of coverage in many news outlets, so there's no shortage of material about him and I think he qualifies as notable. I'd like to get to improve my article so it can be published as soon as possible. Could I ask anyone who is interested to read it and advise me on how to improve it? Gnaanamurthy (talk) 19:50, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Gnaanamurthy Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. Please read the the notability guidelines for politicians. Merely being a candidate for office does not merit someone an article, which means that he would have to meet the more general notability guidelines for people. 331dot (talk) 20:01, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

331dot Understood. I have added more national sources that demonstrate the national significance of his career and campaign. Gnaanamurthy (talk) 01:53, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Texas Elections and Politicians: Errors

2002 Texas Elections for US Senator: Democrat candidate for U.S. Senator was Kirk Watson. The photo in right-sidebar is not Kirk Watson.

Rick Perry: Rick Perry was never Governor of Texas, but is listed as Governor for several years. Wayne Roberson, Austin, Texas (talk) 20:16, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Wayne Roberson, Austin, Texas Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. The proper place to note errors us on the article talk page of the relevant article. I'm not sure how you can claim Rick Perry was never Governor of Texas, he won three elections as Governor. 331dot (talk) 20:24, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

You say that "Rick Perry was never Governor of Texas"; the article Governorship of Rick Perry seems to disagree with you, so you would need very strong evidence to convince us. Similarly 2002 United States Senate election in Texas disagrees with you on the identity of the Democrat candidate. If you have published reliable sources to support your contentions, the talk pages of the articles concerned would be the place to discuss your thoughts. David Biddulph (talk) 20:34, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

How long until a new draft is approved.

Hi there I wanted to ask how long it takes for a new draft article to be approved and listed?

Also, is there a way to add a subject photo to the article for the artist who I’m writing about?

Thanks you. IrishContributor2020 (talk) 20:32, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

@IrishContributor2020: Your article had not been submitted for review, so I submitted it. I also reviewed it and declined it. Please read the message at Draft:Karl Dawson to understand why it was declined. If Dawson doesn't qualify for an article (and I'm not sure he does), then it does not make sense to invest time in adding images to the draft. For now, please see if you can collect more significant coverage of Dawson and add it to your draft. Once it's been accepted, I'd ask here about how to add a photo to the article. Calliopejen1 (talk) 20:36, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Change the URL or make a new page? New guy needs help :)

I want to put up a page on Wikipedia at this URL https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neighborly, but it's already taken with another company that's out of business.

The Neighborly I want to make an entry for is a totally different company at the same URL as the previous company (neighborly.com).

1) Should the new company be on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neighborly?

2) If so, what should the current https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neighborly be changed to?

3) If not, what should the new company's URL be?

Thank you for your help! Govatos (talk) 20:36, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Govatos, and welcome to the Teahouse. There are standard ways of handling multiple articles with whose subjects have the same name; but my advice to you is not to worry about it, but use the articles for creation process to create a draft. When you submit your draft for review, a reviewer who accepts it will move it to main article space, and sort out any name clashes. You do realise that creating a new article is one of the hardest tasks for inexperienced editors? (I know you've been here 12 years, but you describe yourself as a new guy). Have you read your first article? --ColinFine (talk) 21:12, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

show a 12 hour clock

Bold textshow a 12 hour clock

l 2600:1700:ECD0:A7A0:607F:A00E:76FD:76B4 (talk) 21:07, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

I checked preferences and I don't see this as an option. Perhaps someone can suggest a gadget that does it. In either case you would need to create an account to change the time format display. RudolfRed (talk) 21:20, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Conflict of Interest for new wiki user not showing correctly

Hello. I am writing a draft for my company since we do not have a wikipedia page yet. I was writing the disclosure part (conflict of interest) according to the template provided and for some reason, after submitting, I see "Connected contributor paid should only be used on talk pages." According to a deck for creating an account and stating our conflict of interest, the screenshot for after submitting the disclosure was not the same as what shows for my screen and I am unable to submit my wikipedia draft for approval.

Any suggestions or guidance to fix this problem? Much appreciated and thank you! Meguatastro (talk) 21:28, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

@Meguatastro: Please use {{Paid}} for your user page. {{Connected contributor (paid)}} should go on the talk page of the draft you create. Calliopejen1 (talk) 21:32, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Meguatastro and welcome to the Teahouse. Thank you for declaring your conflict of interest. {{connected contributor}} is for use on the talk page of an article where a person with a COI has edited. {{UserboxCOI}} is for use on your user page. place it as follows:

{{UserboxCOI|1=Wikipedia article name}}

If there is more than one article for which you have a COI, add 2= and 3= and so on, for up to nine article names. However, if you are writing about your employer, use {{Paid}} as Calliopejen1 said above. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 21:40, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Meguatastro. In the interest of possibly saving you a considerable amount of disappointment and frustration, I would like to make some (possibly unwelcome) point.

• First, creating a new article is one of the most difficult tasks for a new editor, and I always advise against trying it before spending a few weeks or months improving existing articles and learning how Wikipedia works first.
• The task is even more difficult for an editor with a conflict of interest, because (since Wikipedia is basically not interested in anything that the subject says about itself, or the subject's associates or employees say about it) it will be necessary for you to forget everything you know about the company, and confine yourself to summarising what people unconnected with the company have published about it.
• Nobody in the universe "has a Wikipedia page". Wikipedia has articles about notable companies and other notable subjects. If your company does not meet Wikipedia's criteria for notability, then all time and effort you put into trying to create an article will go to waste.
• Further, nobody owns a Wikipedia article. If you succeed in getting an article about your company written and accepted, it will thereafter not be your article, and you will not control its contents. You will be welcome to suggest changes on the article's talk page, but that will be the limit of your involvement.

If you still want to go ahead, I suggest looking at User:ian.thomson/Howto for a summary of how to proceed, and your first article for more detail, --ColinFine (talk) 22:44, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

Question about edit requests by an editor with a COI related to the article

I have a COI because I an connected to the subject of an article (She is a politician and I am a supporter or her candidacy and do some volunteer work for the campaign). So, following the instructions I have received, I request edits on the talk page of the article. I have done so. I have posted my question there, but have not received a response from the editor who has read the request. I am waiting for additional responses. I would like to know whether it is appropriate to make edits to my requested edits, or are they set in stone until the review is completed?

I am new to Wikipedia editing and am not familiar with protocol. I'm hoping to learn more about it here. I'm a little gun-shy after making one edit, which was not promotional in any way, and being immediately block for "promotional/COI" editing. I know now that it was COI editing, but I didn't know at the time, and the edit was absolutely neutral. I have made no edits to the page since. Anyway, I was happy to find the Tea House, where I can get some information in a friendly environment. – BiostatSci (talk) 23:50, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

BiostatSci Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. To increase the odds your request will be seen by another editor, I have marked it as a formal edit request. Another editor should see it soon and comment. In the meantime, please review and comply with the paid editing policy(which includes unpaid-in-money volunteer work). 331dot (talk) 00:24, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Question about the subject of a prospective article

Hello Teashouse hosts. I am considering an ambitious article, specifically a list. I am inspired by the fact that I've not written a list article and also by a recent new article: Francis Drake's Circumnavigation. The article would be a list of SFD's landfalls, and each item would include pertinent information. I anticipate breaking the circumnavigation into sections of geographical regions, too.

I've had articles rejected in the past and do not want to put the work into this one with that as a possibility. You can see a record of what I've written [HERE]. I look forward to hearing from you. Hu Nhu (talk) 00:10, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

@Hu Nhu: I think that would be a useful companion to the article (i.e., link to it somewhere appropriate in the article). I can see having tables with dates and locations, along with co-ordinates, notes, and refs. Maps with location pushpins would be good, too (see {{Location map}} and other templates in this category). Maybe something like List of Spanish missions in California. Some of the locations are pretty vague like a bay in Northern California – I don't know if there's better info in the sources, but most of them appear to be books which may or may not be online. You may need to do some library legwork and/or seek out someone with books at WP:RD. —[AlanM1 (talk)]— 02:40, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Black Lives Matter

You need to change the copy...........NON VIOLENT? I love your site but this is WRONG!!! 2601:101:8200:DE7E:71A9:AEA0:5D25:3A74 (talk) 00:58, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

If yiu disagree with the content of an article you should post on the talk page of that article, but be prepared to cite reliable sources. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 01:09, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

What article are you referring to? Anyone knows the courtesy link? GeraldWL ✉ 03:25, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Presumably Black Lives Matter.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 04:50, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Questions about editing from a new editor for Wikipedia

I'm curious about many things, but my topmost curiosity is the overview process for Wikipedia. After spending a good deal of time editing an article and ensuring that it was cross linked with other pages, the article still includes statements that the article is an orphan with no other articles linking to it (I've definitely crosslinked other articles with it), that it needs more specific categories (I've added specific categories), and that it requires copy editing (I've copyedited extensively). If someone would kindly explain the review process, I would greatly appreciate your time.

Warmly,

Maria Ó Cluanáin Maria Ó Cluanáin (talk) 04:22, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

@Maria Ó Cluanáin: Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. The tags at the top of Ciokaraine M'Barungu were added manually by editors. They can be manually removed once the issues they mention have been cleared up. I have checked them and they are no longer needed, so I've removed the tags. Thank you for your edits!ThatMontrealIP (talk) 04:33, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

PS while looking at the article text, I noticed some of it may be a bit of a close paraphrase of the Google Arts and Culture source; I tagged it as such so that other editors can have a look.ThatMontrealIP (talk) 04:49, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

How to approve my article Draft:Poojabishnoi

 Naresh Prajapat 04:38, 25 August 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nareshprajapatmogra (talk • contribs)

My editing got removed

Hello, unfortunately all of my editing of the page below got removed for some unknown reason to me. The page as it is does not speak about this person accurately and I wanted to do him Justice! It only spreads some negative information that happened under questionable circumstances for 2 years of his 63 year long career and now we are supposed to highlight and focus on those 2 years. On the top of that, I have received a message from “unknown user” telling me that this page is about Remi Korchemny and not a scrap book about whom he coached. First of all I do not appreciate that sort of communication - at all and secondly I was just stating the facts and putting relevant information about the legendary coach instead of some nonsense shameful information text about some “doping scandal”. Also, of course Wikipedia is not a scrapbook to me - that is absolutely out of question!

I am asking you to restore my work as I was stating only information Remi Korchemny personally told me. Yes, him and me are fiends and I don’t see any conflict of interest when I am listing his accomplishments. And no, I am absolutely not promoting him and also not receiving any money from him for this!

Again, I am kindly asking you to restore my work so that I can complete all of his successes so that people can see for themselves.

Thank you.

P.S. Did you even read the list of references I included? I don’t think you did because if you only did, you would understand what I am talking about.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remi_Korchemny Radspeed (talk) 05:22, 25 August 2020 (UTC)