Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement
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Zaathras
Zaathras is warned against edit warring, especially on BLP material and material related to the post-1992 politics of the United States. Additionally, Marjorie Taylor Greene is now subject to the consensus required editing restriction. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:18, 5 May 2023 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Zaathras
Repeated edit-warring in a BLP in violation of WP:EW and WP:ONUS
N/A
This is super basic, an editor is seeking to enforce their view through edit-warring, repeatedly restoring material that a quick look at the talk page shows there is no consensus for its inclusion. This is discussed at Talk:Marjorie_Taylor_Greene#Comments_on_Teixeira, where among other issues Zaathras calls another living person a "traitor" (without that person having ever been convicted of treason), shows five editors opposing or being unsure of inclusion, and three editors in favor. Yes, not a vote, but there being no consensus for inclusion means the material stays out. Zaathras apparently feels like ONUS does not apply to him or her, see the edit summary here. The page has since been protected, but this method of edit-warring to enforce a personal position violates the arbitration decision, and given this is also a BLP I feel this should be met with sanctions.
Black Kite I think Kcmastrpc was reverting too much as well, though they did have both ONUS and a talk page majority on their side here. If this had been on AOC's page and I say Kcmastrpc reverting 4 times to push in material that was objected to by a majority of the talk page I would have reported them instead. But I dispute I was tag-teaming anything. I saw this whole sequence play out, and like in a bunch of other pages saw a contingent of edit-warriors trying to push in to an article material that did not have consensus. That should be dealt with, but sure, Kcmastrpc reverted too much. I dont think I did, but feel free to ban me from AP2 too if youd like. nableezy - 15:03, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
Discussion concerning ZaathrasStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by ZaathrasThe article is not under a 1RR or a "You may not reinstate a reverted edit for 24h" restriction that I saw. Users who edit in their preferred version of an article while there is an active, ongoing discussion about said content is what I consider to be disruptive here. There was not a BLP concern with the content, the discussion revolved around a question of due or undue weight, therefore, IMO, removal in mid-discussion (esp. this user who had no prior involvement in the discussion) was a quite naked act of bad faith. Zaathras (talk) 21:18, 20 April 2023 (UTC) I do not believe BLPRESTORE applies here, as the content is not damaging or damning to the subject if left in the article. I do not wish to get too far into the weeds of discussion on the content itself, but briefly, this is about whether the subject's public tweets in support of an alleged leaker/whistleblower. The subject publicly supports the leaker, so being linked to him in her bio is not a "negative", in the BLP sense. Zaathras (talk) 22:42, 20 April 2023 (UTC) As for the "personal attack", sorry, but this user has apparently long been allowed to vice support of a terrorist organization on their user page. That the wording is extremely careful and couched is immaterial. We all know what it means. Zaathras (talk) 22:44, 20 April 2023 (UTC) Statement by KcmastrpcI was involved in this conflict, I felt the initial two reverts on April 15 were WP:GOODFAITH, at which point I'd backed off to let the conversation develop for roughly 5 days at which point it began to settle down. Before taking any action, I requested input from other editors and TFD suggested we revert unless any other major developments surfaced. In my judgement I felt consensus had not been reached, and while my primary concern was WP:DUE and WP:BALASP, there were aspects I felt were completely WP:UNDUE especially with regards to Liz Chaney's comments. Nevertheless, as other admins have pointed out, WP:BLPRESTORE and WP:ONUS apply here since the material in dispute was never stable nor gained consensus through discussion. Kcmastrpc (talk) 23:58, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
Statement by SPECIFICO@ScottishFinnishRadish: Am I correct that the editor you appear to be referencing as the uninvolved reverter was @Kcmastrpc:? That editor had been edit warring this content before Zaathras' involvement and is currently blocked regarding another FoxNews-adjacent page. I left a note on the article talk page in the hope that editors there will provide some context to these events. Also, I took a look at Zaathras previous CT sanction. He restored valid content that was removed without by @Mr Ernie: who gave no reason and did not engage on talk and Zathraas' edit was not challenged by any other editor. Zaathras' edit there did indeed have consensus. I'm surprised to see that he was sanctioned, but the page was fairly chaotic due to persistent Republican and right wing media coverage of the subject matter. In the current complaint, while Zaathras reacted poorly by taking the bait and edit warring, the behavior is hardly egregious enough for a draconian sanction such as 0RR, or anything more than a week's page block. FWIW, Zaathras is one of the best-informed and generally constructive editors active in the most contentious politics articles, and his contributions are based on mainstream sourcing and policy. The tone of this complaint feels a bit like weaponizing an unfortunate but harmless misstep. SPECIFICO talk 00:10, 21 April 2023 (UTC) Wordsmith, I think 0RR/Consensus Required is contradictory. The best page restriction is 24-BRD, which has worked well at many difficult AP pages. SPECIFICO talk 00:54, 21 April 2023 (UTC) Nableezy and SFR, there was already an edit war in progress and I would say Nableezy was part of that. I also did not consider citing WP:ONUS to be particularly mom/apple pie standing up for policy. That's just shorthand for saying they consider the content UNDUE. So this is a garden variety edit war on a page with no explicit restrictions and as MASEM says, it's trout-level stuff. The question of editors picking and choosing from daily news is ubiquitous and lots of time and attention is wasted on it. Just to be clear, I meant to say Zaathras' prior sanction was IMO ill-advised, and subsequent events, with the drive-by reverter failing to give any reason or engage on talk and with Zaarthras' reinsertion going unchallenged ever after, seems to confirm that. I would not hold that up as any indication of depravity or anything else outside of that place and time. SPECIFICO talk 02:23, 21 April 2023 (UTC) SFR, I may not have been clear I meant to indicate that the editor whom I called a drive-by reverter (whom I pinged so they can come to their defense here) gave a vacuous edit summary and did not meaningfully engage on the talk page. And the consensus was indeed demonstrated to be in favor of Zaathras' edit. That the reinstatement after the revert is a sanctionable violation actually points out one of the flaws with the "Consensus Required" as a page restriction. It allowed the unsubstantiated revert to sidetrack numerous other editors into a talk thread, only to endorse Zaathras' action for which he was shackled. That's why @Awilley: devised 24-BRD after a lot of experience with AP enforcement, and I presume why Arbcom codified it as one of the authorized page restrictions. SPECIFICO talk 16:05, 21 April 2023 (UTC) RE: WP:ONUS. Yes, it appears in a policy page, but it is not a prescriptive policy such as V, NPOV etc. ONUS gets cited in content disagreements. It's just a reminder that citing V does not resolve a content dispute. SO: I don't think we should be describing the removal of this MTG-tweeting content as if it were wrapped in the flag and glory of the five pillars. It was just a content dispute and the removal was to launch a garden-variety content disagreement which, per se, is beyond the scope of enforcement judgments. SPECIFICO talk 17:33, 21 April 2023 (UTC) @The Wordsmith and ScottishFinishRadish: I strongly disagree with this proposal. What harm are you preventing with such a draconian sanction on Zaathras?There's plenty of examples elsewhere of various editors earning such sanctions when they push UNDUE negative, contentious, or ill-sourced BLP content. That's not what Zaathras has ever done, to my knowledge. This was a bad situation, no harm done, and a quick AE trigger by the complainant. Moreover, to repeat again (3x total) "Consensus Required" is the least workable, leadt constructive of the permitted page sanctions. The most contentious AP articles have done well for several years now with "24-BRD", a fact that was recognized by Arbcom when they codified it in their long review of the enforcement process. SPECIFICO talk 17:29, 26 April 2023 (UTC) @ScottishFinnishRadish: Thanks for your reply, but I asked what harm by Zaathras you expect to prevent. I'm well aware of BLP and the BLP Arbcom decision. The MTG bit is all over the talk page and has been in and out of the article and is published in various sources. This is not a bright line BLP issue. It's a WEIGHT issue. That takes on heightened importance in BLP-related content, but my previous comment stands. I see no pattern or inclination toward policy violations, egregious misconduct, or obstinate disruption from Zaathras, and I've become quite familiar with their work over the recent past as they've become increasingly active. I see no consensus among the Admins here that Zaathras needs a sanction to prevent damage, disruption, or BLP harm. SPECIFICO talk 18:02, 26 April 2023 (UTC) Statement by ValjeanBlack Kite is spot on. No worse than trouting for anyone here. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 15:41, 21 April 2023 (UTC) My abject apologies to User:Nableezy. I intended to modify my comment, got caught up in an edit conflict, saved it and posted it, and had to immediately run to other responsibilities, forgetting to modify it. Nableezy is obviously an experienced and respected editor. I'll modify my comment now. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 16:18, 21 April 2023 (UTC) Statement by DFlhbI disagree with Black Kite that there were "tag teams". Reverting was straightforwardly indicated by our policies as the proper course of action until affirmative consensus is reached. I'm not a household name, so you don't need to take my word for it, take Blueboar's. DFlhb (talk) 19:27, 22 April 2023 (UTC)
Statement by (username)Result concerning Zaathras
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Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Davidbena
Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved administrators" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.
To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).
- Appealing user
- Davidbena (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – Davidbena (talk) 03:05, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
- Sanction being appealed
- Topic ban in Israel-Palestine conflict, broadly construed
Topic ban from editing in the ARBPIA area, broadly construed, imposed on 29 January 2022, and which Tban was subsequent to a failed appeal in November 2019 (see here), imposed by User:Ymblanter, and which original ban was related to disruptive editing by me (as seen here), imposed by User:Euryalus. It is to be noted that an appeal was submitted in September of 2022 to rescind my current Topic ban (as shown here}, but that it too was declined.
- Administrator imposing the sanction
- Seraphimblade (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)
- Notification of that administrator
- The appealing editor is asked to notify the administrator who made the enforcement action of this appeal, and then to replace this text with a diff of that notification. The appeal may not be processed otherwise. If a block is appealed, the editor moving the appeal to this board should make the notification.
Statement by Davidbena
I am asking that my Topic ban be lifted, since I am fully aware now (finally) where I had infringed upon my own Topic ban (here), where it was stated explicitly that I was prohibited from making “any edits relating to post-1948 Arab-Israeli geopolitics, broadly construed, and regardless of whether an ARBPIA template is on the talk page,” but that I had wrongly taken the initiative (careless of me) to create a page entitled “Outline of Jerusalem,” following the Outline of Munich format, and which new page clearly discussed post-1948 Arab-Israeli geopolitics. There is no excuse for this flagrant abuse of my limited topic ban, although I was permitted under the same ruling to “upload or add historical photos or multimedia of or about pre-1948 Levantine subjects,” as well as to contribute “verifiable and reliably sourced information regarding Levantine archaeological research,” in addition to “make edits relating to geographical features of the Levant.” This generous leniency and freedom given to me by my peers rendered my judgment obscured, and I had forgotten the most important proscription, namely, not to engage in edits relating to post-1948 Arab-Israeli geopolitics, broadly construed. I can now say honestly that the community was right to censure me for this flagrant violation, after giving me so much freedom. I will not be upset if the community should turn-down my current request to appeal the topic ban. I feel ashamed that I had not noticed my own error, before it came to this. With that said, for the record, I personally bear no grievance toward any man, and I fully understand the need to reach a consensus with my fellow editors, especially when dealing with contentious topics such as this. As a religious Jew, I have since come to learn something that will, hopefully, guide my attitude here on out in the future, and that is this: for Jews and Arabs, the country remains eternally under special sanctity, and both peoples have historical connections to the land. This calls for extra sensitivities when editing pages related to the Arab-Israeli conflict.
My fervent hope and desire is to add important historical data to articles in the ARBPIA area, and to bring some of these articles up to "Good Article" status.Davidbena (talk) 03:05, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
- @Beyond My Ken: Can I kindly request you to explain to me what you mean by saying there is a lack of understanding as to "why they were Topic banned"? Do you mean by this my very earliest Topic ban when I contended with my fellow co-editors? Or do you mean the current infraction, where I overstepped my bounds by writing an article entitled "Outline of Jerusalem," and where I clearly violated my limited Topic ban and have since expressed remorse for doing so? If you mean my earliest Topic ban, I can expand on that as well. I cannot deny that the freedoms given me to edit in the ARBPIA area gave me a sense of confidence that I could edit without infringing my Topic ban, but, which, as I know now, was grossly mistaken. Secondly, how can an editor like myself show "evidence of a change in attitude or behavior"? Have I continued to show unstaid and skittish behavior? Please explain. I know deep down within myself that if I am ever given the opportunity to edit again in the ARBPIA area, I will be doubly cautious before making any edit. All that I'm asking to do is to occasionally add historical data to articles in the ARBPIA area, and to work together with my fellow co-editors to improve these articles. If given a chance, I'll accept that responsibility and will work to that end. If not given the opportunity, the work will fall on others to do, and I accept that too. Be well.Davidbena (talk) 13:59, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
- @Selfstudier: Actually, before I started the article Wild edible plants of Israel and Palestine I consulted an administrator for his advice (see here) who told me that I could make the article, without infringing my Topic ban. When it came to the RFC, the person making the RFC said explicitly that she thought that it does not fall under the ARBPIA category. This explains why I interjected there, only later to rescind my comment.Davidbena (talk) 14:07, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
- @Cullen328: Will you be my mentor? If you agree, before I post anything to a Wikipedia article in the ARBPIA area, or else broadly construed with the Arab-Israeli conflict, with your permission, I'll first post the edit to your Talk-Page for your approval or disapproval.Davidbena (talk) 03:41, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
- @Nfitz: I read your statement, and you stand to be corrected. I NEVER once in my life said that Palestine doesn't exist as a country. You have misunderstood my words in the defense of myself when I was reprimanded for creating the article "Outline of Jerusalem," and where I stated there that, because of my limited Topic ban, I thought that by avoiding the word "Palestine" in that article, I could escape condemnation, and no one would accuse me of engaging in a "geopolitical" and "contentious" issue when it came specifically to that city of Jerusalem, given my limited Topic ban. In fact, in many of my other articles on Wikipedia (prior to the enactment of my Topic ban), I frequently interchange between the words Israel and Palestine.Davidbena (talk) 03:56, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
- To Huldra: I often interchange between the two. As you know, I work with Palestinian Arabs, as many as sixteen, at my work place. I call them "Palestinians" because that is how they would identify themselves in this country. By the way, nearly all come from the West Bank, and two women from Hebron itself. Only one comes from Galilee. I call them "Arabs" simply for its common English usage, and because that is how they also identify themselves.Davidbena (talk) 03:19, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
- To Zero0000: I would indeed agree to that, say, before posting any comment to the ARBPIA area, I would ask the prior approval of my mentor.Davidbena (talk) 03:22, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
- To Serephimblade: As I wrote to Zero0000, I would fully and whole-heartedly agree to work with a mentor, meaning to say, before I endeavor to post anything to a Wikipedia article in the ARBPIA area, I will first seek the prior approval of my mentor. Nothing is better than receiving good advice.Davidbena (talk) 03:27, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
- @Zero0000: Would you please agree to be my mentor? I will write the suggested edit in the ARBPIA area on my sandbox, and then link your name to the page for comment (either approval or disapproval)? Is that alright with you? If you can agree to this, I will gladly abide by the rule, until you or others feel that I am capable of editing in the ARBPIA area without obtaining the prior consent of my mentor.Davidbena (talk) 12:27, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
- @Nableezy: Since my request that Zero0000 become a mentor to me has gone unanswered, and no one else has stepped-up to accept the task of mentorship for me (having also appealed to User:Nishidani), can I ask you to be my mentor for at least one year in the ARBPIA area? As I wrote to Huldra on my Talk-Page, I have no objection that you be my mentor for at least a year. I am eternally grateful for your kindness towards me. And while we might occasionally disagree on certain political issues, I, personally, do not have any wish nor intentions to aggravate tensions in the Arab-Israeli conflict. My only interest at present is historical data. Any suggested edits in the ARBPIA area will be posted by me to my sandbox and your name tagged for either approval or disapproval.Davidbena (talk) 02:29, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
- For Your Information: See this here. I am posting this for the community's information, as it pertains to future edits while I am under my mentorship.Davidbena (talk) 12:14, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
Statement by Seraphimblade
With Davidbena, I think the problems we have seen have generally been an issue of negligence rather than malice. That's not to excuse them—editors subject to restrictions are still responsible for heeding them, and liable for the consequences if they do not. Part of that is either to stay well clear of any area which even might be interpreted as subject to it, or at the very least to ask for clarification and advice before doing anything that might be near the line. That said, if someone experienced were willing to act as an advisor/mentor for Davidbena during a gradual return to some of the area, and Davidbena were willing to accept such guidance, I could see that as a potentially workable solution and would not object to that. I do think that just wholesale removing this restriction (especially with the community restrictions still in place) is not something likely to end well for anyone involved; it certainly has not worked out well in the past. Seraphimblade Talk to me 22:18, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
Statement by Nableezy
I have made no secret of my fondness for David, and have tried to ward him off from shooting himself in the foot in the past, and thats despite having been asked to be banned by David in the past, in fact two of his more ardent fans are the only ones he's ever asked to have banned I think. But he is without doubt one of the most sincere people on Wikipedia, and I have never doubted David's honesty or good faith. His zeal was the only real problem. But I absolutely believe that he thought he wasnt doing anything that violated his topic ban previously, and even though it was obvious to me, and to everybody commenting at AE at the time, I remain of the view that good faith mistakes should be forgiven, and honestly think you all should have just gone with escalating blocks up to one month for those good faith topic ban violations. Yes, it was a topic ban violation. But who cares really, it had zero impact on anything, and anybody could have removed it and he would have left it alone if told to due to his ban. I cant honestly say I have any real confidence that he wont make another good faith error in abiding by the AN imposed ban in the future, but I just dont see how this is beneficial to any of the parties here, David or Wikipedia. So my view, unchanged over years and years, is David can be an asset to articles that need knowledgeable editors who research thoroughly and have access to some of the world's best resources for the Jewish history in Palestine/Israel, and we are just depriving ourselves of that asset for technical violations of a ban that has barely any real benefit to Wikipedia to begin with. And it be better if we didnt do that. nableezy - 04:37, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
- Or building off Zero's proposal, here, hows this as a proposal, have David commit to following some editor from the opposing side's advice on if an edit or comment is a violation of the AN topic ban. Ill do it, and if any editor raises an issue with an edit David makes and I tell him its a violation he commits to removing it no questions asked and disengaging from the topic. nableezy - 20:55, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
- @Davidbena: Id be happy to if thats acceptable to the admins below. And while I definitely am not a model editor, I can certainly promise the advice I give David will be better than the internal monologue I follow. nableezy - 02:44, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
Statement by Zero0000
Like Nableezy, I'm one of those who generally sit on the opposite side of the fence to David on ARPBIA issues. And yet, like Nableezy, I see David as an asset to the project. To start with, David's knowledge of Jewish matters is spectacular. Second, David is good faith personified. The times when David violated the rules were more to do with his confusion about them than with an intention to be disruptive. And, yes, he does fail to understand the rules quite often, but I know from long conversation that he is genuine about it. This leads me to a proposal: give David a trial period with a mentor. During this trial period, David would be required to follow the mentor's advice, which would be mostly about policy and wikicraft rather than content. Zerotalk 20:40, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
- @Isabelle Belato: Indeed, both David and the mentor would have to voluntarily agree to it. Zerotalk 21:17, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
Statement by Huldra
- I'm in two minds about this. On one hand; I like Davidbena; as far as I can judge: he is an honest editor, always polite, and better: he actually read stuff (like books!), he isn't one who just googles up some trash. (Incidentally: Nableezy, Zero0000 and myself were named the 3 top anti-Israeli editors on wikipedia, according to a now defunct off-wiki harassment site; that we all like Davidbena says something about his qualities.)
- Sigh; on the other hand Davidbena, eh, tends to "loose his cool" when it comes to the IP subjects. In the 23 February, 2019 -appeal, both Nableezy and I voted for lifting his topic-ban ("with some trepidation"); less than two months later he says that we have "shown animosity towards me since day one" and reports us to AN (which spectacularly backfired, and got him topic-banned, again.)
- I support the suggestion of a mentor, if Nableezy or Zero0000 is willing to do it, and I support a lifting of the broader topic-ban.
- One question to Davidbena: Do you call Palestinian for "Palestinian", or do you call them "Arabs"? Huldra (talk) 22:25, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
Statement by (involved editor 1)
Statement by (involved editor 2)
Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Davidbena
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Beyond My Ken (Davidbena)
- The appeal does not indicate any real understanding of why they were TB'd, nor does it provide any evidence of a change in attitude or behavior since their last appeal was turned down 6 months ago. I would urge the admins here to turn down this appeal as well. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:29, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
- Note: Because I don't believe this page is clerked, I have moved Davidbena's responses from other editors' sections into their own section. If that was a faux pas, I apologize. Beyond My Ken (talk) 10:32, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
Statement by Selfstudier
Recently, at Wild edible plants of Israel and Palestine editor breached the tban and comments made in an RFC were eventually removed after an administrator explained the obvious.
Editor has a history of pushing boundaries and always seems to reach a point of not being able to edit neutrally in this topic area.Selfstudier (talk) 07:53, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
Statement by Nfitz
In his response to Selfstudier above, Davidbena notes that he was told that creating the article Wild edible plants of Israel and Palestine wasn't a violation. But what he is being criticized for by User:Selfstudier isn't anything to do with that page. It's the words of his talk page edit that are the issue, where he said that "the addition of "and" makes it appear as though we're talking about two separate countries, when, in fact, we're talking about a synonym for the same country". With your topic ban you can't opine (anywhere in Wikipedia) of your opinion about whether the area in question is one country, two countries, three countries, or 50 countries! That even today you don't see that, is very concerning.
In your title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=prev&oldid=1151399666 ANI request yesterday (which was closed and moved here) you said that you "simply mentioned while editing that page the name of the current government over Jerusalem". Reading the earlier ANI discussion, it notes that your neutral article "Outline of Jerusalem" (that I have not and cannot see) never mentioned Palestine, even though it governs a large potion of the city. Even in your ANI appeal you imply that Israel governs the entire city. In my mind this suggests there remains a lack of understanding or sensitivity regarding the situation. And in particular there seems to be a lack of understanding that even mentioning who you think governs all of Jerusalem (a highly controversial topic) violates your TBAN.
With this lack of understanding of what the Topic Ban restricts, as recently as yesterday, I think the topic ban should continue, as making such a bold and controversial comments on Jerusalem, and the assertation insinuation that Palestine doesn't exist as a country, is only going to end up going badly.
On a personal note, I applaud the community for trying to work with the editor, rather than simply penalize the editor; it's not something that the community is very good at. Nfitz (talk) 22:36, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
Can someone clarify - I thought people weren't allowed to edit in another person's section (sorry, I don't appear here very often).
But to respond to the statement, I had meant to write "insinuate" rather than "assert". I'm not sure how else to interpret ".. makes it appear as though we're talking about two separate countries, when, in fact, we're talking about a synonym for the same country. Though that's secondary to the current request to lift the topic ban. That you ever mentioned the number of countries in your comment is a topic-ban violation, as far as I understand it. Nfitz (talk) 04:47, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
Statement by Folly Mox
I'm moved to comment here by the beauty of – for lack of a better term – ideological opponents submitting statements in favour of lifting sanctions. This freak confluence of human compassion and commitment to encyclopaedic neutrality makes me want to see this appeal succeed. (For the record, my position on the ARBPIA topic area is wilful ignorance.) To that end, I have a few possibly bad ideas.
I see people talking about gradual reentry, without much commitment to taking responsibility for Davidbena's mentorship. What about a time trial where Davidbena would commit to a consensus-required voluntary page restriction on any article where his edits are challenged? Or a weakly rate-limited time trial such that he could make around k edits to the topic area per day, for some positive integer k? ([W]eakly
and around
so he doesn't get sanctioned for miscounting or forgetfulness.) Or 0rr? These sound pretty difficult to enforce, but Davidbena seems very open to the idea of feedback and education, and no one here seems to doubt his good faith, so I'm hopeful that enforcement won't be an issue. Folly Mox (talk) 05:31, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
Statement by (uninvolved editor 4)
Result of the appeal by Davidbena
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- @Zero0000: We can't force someone to mentor another user, we would need a volunteer. I'm still reading the previous discussions, but if we had someone willing to mentor Davidbena, I could see myself giving them some rope. Isabelle Belato 🏳🌈 20:58, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
- I am not willing to commit to a formal mentorship, but I do want to say that Davidbena is always welcome on my talk page and I also encourage him to visit the Teahouse or the Help desk when in doubt about any edit. I am impressed with the endorsement of the editor's knowledge and good faith by editor's POV opponents. That is a credit both to David and to the other editors who have made those comments This topic area is inherently very difficult and we need good faith, well informed editors contributing. Accordingly, in the spirit of Wikipedia:One last chance, I support lifting the topic ban. Cullen328 (talk) 03:29, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
- Davidbena, I have visited Israel twice and Egypt once, and own a number of books on the conflict. But I am far from an expert and do not feel comfortable getting deeply involved in this topic area. I lack the academic training and the motivation to do so. I am a generalist editor, not a specialist. I am happy to discuss Wikipedia editing at any time, but not to sit in judgment of all your Israel/Palestine edits. Cullen328 (talk) 05:29, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
- Support lifting the topic ban on the basis of the one-year mentorship proposal from Nableezy, accepted by Davidbena above. @Isabelle Belato and Cullen328: (or anyone else) any further views? -- Euryalus (talk) 03:10, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
- Seems fine by me. Isabelle Belato 🏳🌈 21:42, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
- I'm still somewhat concerned that he will violate the community topic ban if this ban is lifted. His community restriction is quite complicated and easy to violate if he continues to edit in the topic area. But since we have Nableezy willing to mentor for a year and make sure he doesn't violate the topic ban, I support lifting the topic ban. I'm also heartened to see such good faith from editors of opposing viewpoints in such a contentious area. Galobtter (talk) 07:17, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
Interfase
Interfase is indefinitely topic banned from Armenia, Azerbaijan, and related ethnic conflicts. Galobtter (talk) 23:53, 2 May 2023 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Interfase
Interfase has been highly incompetent and edit-warring in the 2023 European Weightlifting Championships. They edit-war on a whim and restore/remove info depending on their POV: on one hand they edit-war and restore irrelevant to a weightlifting cyclopedia article derogatory quote, explained why thoroughly on talk - [3], [4], [5]. On the other hand, they’d hide info that doesn’t suit their POV despite several reliable sources, and again edit-war in the process with multiple users - [6], [7], [8], [9]. What Interfase demonstrated with their recent conduct is categorically how not to behave on Wikipedia, especially in the contentious AA area; they edit-war on a whim, ignore notices on their talk, remove/restore info based on POV preference rather than merit, sources or strength of talk arguments, and finally they don’t bother listening to multiple users on talk [10], [11], [12], still continuing to edit-war despite clear disagreement with their edits and lack of consensus. Interfase has been blocked already for edit-warring so this seems like a repeating pattern, and I believe AE admins should take a look into Interfase’s disruptive conduct and incompetency. KhndzorUtogh (talk) 17:34, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
Discussion concerning InterfaseStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by InterfaseThere is ongoing discussion on a talk page of the article and there is still no any consensus on information about the situation around the Nagorno-Karabakh in this article about the championship. The disputed text was hidden by me[18] after the dispute on talk page about the information related to Karabakh conflict till the consensus. But several users try to do POV-pushing and violate WP:CONS disclosing the disputed information that is not related to the article without reaching any consensus[19][20]. My position is to reach the consensus and not to do POV-pushing without any consensus. If we want to add the information about the blockade of Nagorno-Karabakh, then the brief information about the wars between two countries and occupation of Azerbaijani territories also must be added (this information was mentioned on reliable sources in the context of the championship as well). But this information was removed from the article by nominator[21]. In this case all information not related to the championship also must be removed. It seams that there is a flash mob by proArmenian users trying to keep disputed information in the article without consensus using their numerical superiority. --Interfase (talk) 14:37, 24 April 2023 (UTC) The sentence on “casting WP:ASPERSIONS on the motives of all users who disagree with him” is not true. I am talking not about users "who disagree with me", but users who clearly violate WP:CONS and insteade of reaching any consensus are tryling to fight to implement their preferred version immediately in artice. Actually the users disclosing the disputed information shows the WP:Battleground mentality, not me. WP:EW clearly says that editors engaged in a dispute should reach consensus or pursue dispute resolution rather than edit war. There is still no any consensus on hidden text on a talk page. It means that users trying to disclose it engage in an edit war. --Interfase (talk) 18:14, 24 April 2023 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning Interfase
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PalauanLibertarian
PalauanLibertarian is topic banned from abortion. Their rollback rights are also revoked. Galobtter (talk) 20:13, 2 May 2023 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning PalauanLibertarian
PalauanLibertarian seems to doing good work in several other areas of Wikipedia, but to me it unfortunately does not seem like they have the ability to properly assess source reliability in the topic area of abortion, nor a willingness to collaboratively edit in this area (see repeated reinstatement of contested material to articles and misuses of rollback). DanCherek (talk) 00:15, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
Discussion concerning PalauanLibertarianStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by PalauanLibertarianI agree that I have not followed the policy on some articles, but I'm confused as to why my original 96% source is not a reliable source. It's from a peer reviewed reputable journal. Also, my third edit included many other reliable sources other than ACPeds why was it reverted instead of removing those specific sources. I'll make an effort to stay away from politics or you can restrict me from editing those articles (fine with me). PalauanReich🗣️ 00:56, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
Statement by Shadow of the Starlit SkyI agree with @Femke: over here on a TBAN from abortion, broadly construed. Judging from the diffs, I can definitely tell that this user has difficulty telling apart sourced content from neutral content. Also, due to the history of rollback misuse I'd say a removal of rollback privileges would be a good idea too. -- Shadow of the Starlit Sky 12:58, 1 May 2023 (UTC) Result concerning PalauanLibertarian
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Emilimo
Emilimo is topic banned from pseudoscience. Galobtter (talk) 19:06, 9 May 2023 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Emilimo
@KoA: I meant they look like a WP:SPA since 11 April. They had some edits in other articles, but that was earlier. tgeorgescu (talk) 13:29, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
Discussion concerning EmilimoStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by EmilimoStatement by KoATgeorgescu, it took me a second to catch what was exactly being reported without much background provided (and I'm a regular watcher at WP:FTN), but I'm guessing this report is because Emilimo has a history of trying to remove pseudoscience as a descriptor from articles, which violates WP:PSCI policy? Just making sure it's clear for admins that may not be as familiar with PSCI subjects here. From what I can see at Stephen C. Meyer, David Berlinski, and Michael Behe with the edit warring going on, it does appear Emilimo is WP:NOTHERE in terms of pseudoscience subjects and some sort of preventative action would be needed so the community doesn't have to deal with it there. They're technically not a WP:SPA as Tgeorgescu mentions in the evidence, but definitely WP:ADVOCACY issues in the last month that likely warrants a topic ban from intelligent design subjects. That could be expanded if they cause issues in other pseudoscience/fringe topics. KoA (talk) 01:14, 30 April 2023 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning Emilimo
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Rayner111
Partial blocks from his biography at J. E. R. Staddon and Charles Murray - ordinary Admin actions, not AE |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Request concerning Rayner111
This user came to my attention after making PROFRINGE edits to Charles Murray (political scientist): [35], [36]. A glance at this user's talk page revealed that he has identified himself as the psychologist J. E. R. Staddon, and has been warned about COI. Despite this, even after the warning, it seems nearly all of his edits have been self-promotional (not just to his BLP; he's also gotten up to a lot of ref-spamming, e.g. here, here, here, and here). The only exception to this COI editing appears to be recent edit warring against the consensus on race and intelligence. I attempted to engage with Rayner111 / Professor Staddon on his talk page (where, after an initial warning for vandalism, I realized that this was an elderly professor and attempted to explain the existing consensus). I also invited him to engage on the article talk page, which he ignored. Instead, I was informed yesterday that he'd published an op-ed on the conservative website Minding the Campus, titled "WikiBias: How Wikipedia erases “fringe theories” and enforces conformity". In it, he misrepresents events to make it seem as though his edits were more reasonable, and appears to dismiss me by noting that my user page states that I use they/them pronouns. I was prepared to let that go, since R&I is a topic area full of trolls to whom I prefer to WP:DENY recognition. But seeing as this user has now come back on-Wiki to make the three highly inappropriate and pointy edits linked above, I see no other option but to seek sanctions.
Discussion concerning Rayner111Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Rayner111Statement by IP editorJust so I am clear, it appears Rayner111 included a link to Science Direct, which to the best of my knowledge is a reliable source and not subject to any kind of sanction. If I am wrong, forgive me, but I don't see what is disruptive about this edit. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:1250:6d80:65a9:d528:c5d2:6e14 (talk) 22:04, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
Statement by Beyond My Ken (Rayner111)Since Rayner111 self-identifies as J. E. R. Staddon, they should, at the very least, be partially blocked (as an ordinary admin action) from editing the article about himself. He's made 45 edits to the article, 24.4% of the edits to the article, [42] contributing 8.4% of the article's content.[43] Because of his obvious COI, he should be limited to suggesting changes on the article talk page. Beyond My Ken (talk) 00:30, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
Statement by IP editorThe background to this report is important. The disputed wording in the Charles Murray (political scientist) article was added by Generalrelative [45] without (initially) any discussion on the talk page. Rayner111 tried to modify Generalrelative's wording several times, and Generalrelative undid those attempts before making this report. Generalrelative also undid attempts by six other users to modify his wording: by user:Bartinny, [46] user:TankRe, [47] user:Oveclocked66, [48] user:Nrunje, [49] and two IP users. [50] [51] A third IP user challenged Generalrelative's change on the talk page, and his response to that IP user was dismissive. [52] When one is restoring one's change that's been opposed by eight people in total, and there has never been a consensus for the change on the article talk page, it's disingenuous to claim, as Generalrelative claims above, that one's opponent is "edit warring against the consensus". Repeatedly restoring one's contentious change as others challenge it is also the opposite of how WP:BRD is supposed to work, especially in an article about a living person. — 24.246.138.48 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. The preceding unsigned comment was added at 09:07, May 5, 2023 (UTC).
Result concerning Rayner111
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