Talk:Main Page

Main Page error report

To report an error in content currently or imminently on the Main Page, use the appropriate section below.

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Administrators: Clear all reports

Errors in the summary of the featured article

Please do not remove this invisible timestamp. See WT:ERRORS and WP:SUBSCRIBE. - Dank (push to talk) 01:24, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

Errors in "Did you know ..."

Current DYK

• ... that after Liam and Noel Gallagher's band Oasis announced "the most controversial band reunion since the Sex Pistols' 1996 Filthy Lucre Tour", Noel's daughter Anaïs Gallagher criticised some fans for ageism and sexism?

Ugly hook, and where is the quote from? Secretlondon (talk) 23:50, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

@Secretlondon: The quote is from the fifth sentence of the third paragraph of "Initial announcement and reactions", while its source is in the sentence. How would you word the hook?--Launchballer 01:00, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

There are three bolded highlights in this hook. What is the article(s) that users are supposed to be focusing on: All three, or just one? Why is this specific quote included at all? Doc Strange^MailboxLogbook 02:39, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

It's a multi-hook, which I suppose is like casting a wide net to catch all possible fish. All three bolded articles in this one hook are the target articles. Bremps... 03:06, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Errors in "On this day"

Today's OTD

• Add "Victory Day in the Maldives" near "Culture Day in Japan". MAL MALDIVE (talk) 03:51, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Errors in the summary of the featured list

Friday's FL

(November 8)

Monday's FL

(November 4)

Errors in the summary of the featured picture

Notice to administrators: When fixing POTD errors, please update the corresponding regular version (i.e. without "protected" in the page title) in addition to the Main Page version linked below.

Today's POTD

In the description of the featured picture for Diwali, we should wikilink the mythical city Ayodhya (Ramayana) instead of the actual city Ayodhya. The reason is explained in the second paragraph of the article Ayodhya (Ramayana):

“ The historicity of this legendary city is of concern to the Ayodhya dispute. According to one theory, it is same as the present-day Ayodhya city. According to another theory, it is a fictional city, and the present-day Ayodhya (originally called Saketa) was renamed after it around the 4th or 5th century, during the Gupta period. ”

Also see the section Ayodhya_(Ramayana)#Historicity. --Lekhak93 (talk) 09:03, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

General discussion

David Rudisha

You should put David Rudisha's incredible achievement on the front page. [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.40.106.79 (talk) 20:18, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

You should try WP:ITN/C. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:27, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

You should also read the instructions at the top of this page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.158.118.187 (talk) 22:37, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Good luck on nominating anything Olympics-related on ITN. Even Phelps' medal haul was a hard sell there, with Phelps' achievement was even described as "not notable, not impressive, and an accident". Now if you're talking about the much-watched southern hemisphere rugby final... –HTD 14:33, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Most of the Olympics noms on ITN are opposed for singling out something that doesn't need singled out in the face of the already-overwhelming Olympics coverage on the main page (several ITN items, a sticky, and at least 9 DYK hooks each and every day, a TFL, plus at least one TFA with the possibility of another pending). Good luck getting anything thrown on top of that giant pile, regardless of viewership or popularity. GRAPPLE X 14:47, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Are there any other Olympics-related ITNs save for Phelps' medal record and the opening ceremony? I may have missed something. –HTD 14:53, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

There's been a constant sticky, and I highly doubt the closing ceremony will be missed. Two items so far, plus a constant link to the main article, is still more than sufficient; and that's only one section of the main page. GRAPPLE X 15:02, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

And when's the next time we'd have the Summer Olympics again? The sticky link is at the bottom, if I haven't remembered it I would have not noticed it at the ITN section. So, ITN misses its only opportunity to mention Bolt in the ITN for four years, while we'd get our annual fix of the AFL Grand Finals. If the Phelps medal record wasn't posted, we'd only have the opening and closing ceremonies, both of which are sidelights to the games per se. That's two Summer Olympics related blurbs, none of which are even related to why there is even an Olympics, every four years, plus the sticky link I forgot about. If that's "more than sufficient", I dunno what is. –HTD 15:06, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Let me repeat: at least 9 DYKS a day, one TFA with the possibility of another to come, and a TFL earlier this week. That's in addition to ITN, and I haven't even checked if OTD or TFP covered anything relevant. Items are routinely shuffled off the main page if they're going to be mentioned in a different section of the main page, with OTD or TFA being rejiggered if one particular item might be given repeated mention. But for some reason the Olympics, a recurring event we'll be seeing again in a few years, should be an exception to this? GRAPPLE X 15:13, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

I understand, but it's DYK: it's below the fold. The prime Main Page real estate is TFA and ITN as they're above the fold. I don't think WP will crash with some Olympics blurbs, aside from the opening and closing ceremonies, on ITN. Other sections can do what they want.

Then again, as you've said, we'd be seeing this again. In a few years. Four years. We'd only be doing this for two weeks out of 208 weeks (0.96%).

If we're scared of oversaturation of coverage for the Olympics, then's the pretty well below my concerns in Wikipedia. Those DYKs should've help improved some articles, right? Ergo, Wikipedia benefited from it. If it weren't for the Olympics, we would have crappy articles on Colombian BMX cyclists... assuming we even have one. –HTD 15:24, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Yes, wikipedia has benefited from the DYK articles being expanded. The level of improvement an ITN article needs compared to a DYK article is a different matter though; and loading ITN with all of the Olympic items that have been proposed would have made a negligible net improvement. Don't get me wrong, I've been watching the events themselves pretty much daily (times like these are when I love dual nationality); but I do think we need to draw the line at some point when it comes to loading a bit too much onto the main page. If every match in the next FIFA World Cup finals were mentioned, I think we'd be in agreement with it being overkill, but it's just as frequently recurring; same goes for any quadrennial event. GRAPPLE X 15:31, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

It's all well and good, but on your World Cup analogy: at the current rate, without the Phelps hard sell, if the Summer Olympics was the World Cup, the only articles that would be added to the ITN are the stories about the WAGs, and probably Kim Jong-il's torture of the DPRK squad after they got home, and nothing about Spain winning the title. –HTD 15:47, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

1. Bizarre as it seems to me, the biggest Olympic TV audiences are for the opening & closing ceremonies. So if you are going to pick just two events you might want to go with the two most popular ones.

2. Phelps record rightly had a hard time being approved as he is a swimmer. It is much easier to win medals in swimming than in any other area because they four versions of most races and someone can participate in multiple versions. Hence people (including other athletes) suggest that for comparison purposes a swimmer's medal count should be divided by 2 or 3 or 4.

3. Your comparison with the FIFA World Cup is stretching the analogy too far. The World Cup builds towards a single final, the Olympics does not. FerdinandFrog (talk) 16:30, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

I do plan to nominate Avery Brundage for TFA for September 6, the 40th anniversary of his Munich speech, or alternatively for his 125th birthday on September 28.--Wehwalt (talk) 17:04, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Interesting, although you can do away with the ceremonies and still have an Olympics; you can't say the same for the reverse.

Phelps has 22 medals. The next swimmer has 12. The athletes following Phelps are all gymnasts. If we'd divide swimming, gymanstics, fencing, and similar sports with the about the same number of medals to three and athletics, and similar sports with the about the same number of medals to two, Phelps should still win.

You can argue that the Olympics' marquee event is the men's 100-meter race; the winner is the "world's fastest man" for the next 4 years. Not as clear cut as a final of tournament but it's arguable. Another is the marathon as it is the absolute last event, or the weightlifting-men's heavyweight (the "world's strongest man") but they usually don't have the same profile as the men's 100 meter race; some event usually crops up, and may even surpass the interest of the 100-meter race but for every Olympics, but the men's the 100-meter race has to be the marquee event year in and year out (or should I say Olympiad in and Olympiad out). Of course this can never be proved empirically, but the men's 100-meter race has to trump the likes of trampolining or racewalking or BMX or even Olympic football. –HTD 17:59, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Apparently, most of the so-called "Olympic" coverage at DYK are mostly blurbs about Olympic competitors and not about the Olympics per se. The articles about the games per se, such as Taekwondo at the 2012 Summer Olympics – Women's 67 kg, are entirely proseless, save for the copyright violation in the competition format. I don't think you'd classify Michigan football DYKs as Big Ten DYKs. This means there has been a dearth of Olympic coverage in the Main Page. –HTD 04:20, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

Main page image protection?

Are the instructions detailed at Category:Protected main page images still relevant? User:David Levy said so in a recently archived thread about it, but looking at today's Main Page, none of the images seem to have been locally uploaded nor protected on Commons. (Commons:File:Official 2011 MH .jpg was, but has already been unprotected.) Has there been a change in policy, or is perhaps the risk of such vandalism so low such protection isn't worth doing any more? --101.109.216.95 (talk) 02:40, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

PS: I just noticed that the protection on Commons is via cascading protection from Commons:Commons:Auto-protected files/wikipedia/en. I was mistaken in saying they aren't currently protected on Commons. --125.25.142.74 (talk) 09:20, 12 August 2012 (UTC) (dynamic IP)

Images appearing on the main page most definitely are supposed to be protected (either at Wikipedia or at Commons). And they usually are, one way or another.

Images transcluded at Main Page are cascade-protected (automatically if hosted locally, or by a bot if hosted at Commons). The same is true of Wikipedia:Main Page/Tomorrow, which includes tomorrow's featured article, OTD section, featured picture and featured list (if applicable), along with the next DYK queue.

Therefore, if all goes according to plan, images appearing in sections other than ITN are cascade-protected well before they appear on the main page. As a result, many administrators have stopped bothering to manually protect them. (As far as I know, this has never been discussed or shown to reflect consensus.)

Problems arise when things don't go according to plan. Having gotten out of the habit of routinely protecting images, some admins add them to live TFA blurbs and to ITN without a second thought. Local images usually are cascade-protected immediately (though this mechanism can and does fail on occasion), but most are hosted at Commons. The bot can take upwards of thirty minutes to cascade-protect an image (during which it's subject to replacement by a vandal), and that's when it's operating properly. (It has had outages.)

There are other potential exploits, which I won't mention.

Cascading protection and the Commons bot (especially the latter) are intended to serve as fallbacks, but editors are treating them as first-line solutions. This is likely to continue until one or more failures result in Goatse photographs appearing on the main page again, or until the community demands that the shortcuts cease. —David Levy 04:45, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

DYK does rely on the cascading protection on commons, because the DYK update bot "physically" checks protection 2 hours before the update and alerts if problems; it will not put an unprotected image on the main page. Materialscientist (talk) 09:44, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

Apart from an issue that I won't mention here, that seems like a fairly reliable method (as I don't recall the cascading protection failing after taking effect).

To be on the safe side, why not have the bot locally upload and protect Commons images? —David Levy 12:43, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

Temporal local uploads are a waste of resources; they are often impractical for large images, and confusing - many copied templates have different meanings on Commons and en.wiki. Whenever possible, images should be protected on Commons. In any case, bot uploads might be impractical, because an admin should verify the image content and license. Materialscientist (talk) 03:22, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Temporal local uploads are a waste of resources;

What significant impact on our resources would three instances per day have?

Uploads (and often deletions) are done by a handful of hardworking admins. Their time is valuable and is spared by protection on Commons. Further, several (3 is an absolute minimum) futile MP uploads/deletions every single day accumulate into a significant number. Materialscientist (talk) 03:06, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

they are often impractical for large images,

Please elaborate.

Due to frequent server problems, a local upload of a high-resolution images may take many minutes. DYK hooks often require high-res images (say, artworks). Providing a low-res copy and linking to a high-res original is possible, but confusing. And that high-res original needs protection too. Materialscientist (talk) 03:06, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

and confusing - many copied templates have different meanings on Commons and en.wiki.

Please cite examples. I know that some Commons templates don't exist here (easily remediable), but I've never encountered an image tag with the same name and a different meaning.

Sorry, no time for diffs. Many image templates from Commons do not exist here. Easy examples that come to mind are 100% of "creator" templates (this hides the author) and generic templates like [2] [3] (this hides license; every such template can easily cover thousands of images). Many license templates are also not parallel on Commons and en.wiki. Materialscientist (talk) 03:06, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Whenever possible, images should be protected on Commons.

That's what I do when transcluding a Commons image (as opposed to a specially cropped version) on our main page. With a bit of cross-project cooperation, the DYK update bot could do it too (instead of relying upon another bot's cascade). Either way, it should be checking something that I won't mention here (but would gladly discuss in private).

DYK update bot does not operate on Commons, which is required for this protection mode. Also see next point. Materialscientist (talk) 03:06, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

In any case, bot uploads might be impractical, because an admin should verify the image content and license.

Isn't that occurring already? And wasn't it originally customary for the same admin to upload and protect a local copy? —David Levy 16:48, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

It is occurring, but it is technically impractical to combine admin checks with bot protection (waste of bot programming resources - a script or manual protection will do). Materialscientist (talk) 03:06, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Olympic Games TFA image

On a related note why isn't the Olympic rings on the FA image rather then one that is only relevant to 2012. Regards, Sun Creator^(talk) 02:54, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

I have to agree. The Olympic rings would be a much more appropriate image for the article. Rreagan007 (talk) 04:19, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

While I think the Olympic rings may be entitled to special copyright protection under US law (for which they would otherwise be ineligible), I do question the propriety of having this image on the main page when it has been up for deletion at Commons for practically the entire Olympics. Daniel Case (talk) 04:34, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

Commons moves as slow as molasses, but I'd feel much better if in this case Mike Godwin (or whoever our legal counsel is) can give some legal guidance. Copyright law always gives me a headache, but this looks much more complicated than usual. hbdragon88 (talk) 05:08, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

I agree that it is inappropriate to have the image on the Main Page while it is up for deletion and have replaced it with the Olympic rings. —howcheng {chat} 11:56, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

Please see the section directly above this one. —David Levy 13:08, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

It's a local image, so cascading protection took care of it. —howcheng {chat} 19:22, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

File:Olympic Rings.svg has a local copy. You used File:Olympic rings.svg (a slightly different version), which doesn't. It was unprotected until the Commons bot cascade-protected it 25 minutes later.

This was an understandable oversight, and one that illustrates why it's a bad idea to rely upon an arbitrary, one-letter capitalization difference to distinguish between two similar images. —David Levy 19:59, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

What the--? Why do we have two versions of Olympic rings?? That's just silly. —howcheng {chat} 02:04, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

OK I see the difference now. I agree it's not a good idea for the filenames to be so similar. The one I used should be called "Olympic Rings with white rims.svg". —howcheng {chat} 02:08, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

As an added bonus, renaming it almost certainly would place it outside an "/ad" subdirectory. (Its current storage in one causes some ad-blocking software to suppress its display. The MediaWiki developers are aware of this problem and declined to correct it.)

I'll go ahead and perform the move. —David Levy 02:35, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

That sounds like poorly designed software. Queendtril (talk) 16:37, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

I'm guessing that's why the devs refused to 'fix' the problem. Nil Einne (talk) 19:23, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

I assume so. And that's unfortunate. Many users have no control over the software installed on the computers that they use, so they're stuck with the poorly designed ad blockers. Others won't recognize the problem's cause and might not even realize that certain images are failing to load. (A good example is today's TFA image, to which the accompanying blurb includes no reference.)

Earlier today, we had two "/ad" subdirectory images on the main page simultaneously (in TFA and ITN). And the ITN image was present since yesterday, so we've had at least one per day for the past three days.

Incidentally, I'm aware of this because I'm using the following CSS code, which places a red border around such images:

img[src*="/ad/"] { border: solid red 10px !important; }

—David Levy 20:24, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

That's an ingenious solution. I fixed the issue by whitelisting WMF sites. —howcheng {chat} 23:21, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Given the heavy-handed approach that the IOC and British authorities have taken toward unauthorized use of the rings, I'm surprised to find these on the Main Page, especially in light of the ongoing "no non-free images" policing (not that I support this). Also, the Olympics have pretty much devolved into a commercial venture. Do we want to give them free advertising? Nricardo (talk) 17:01, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

The symbol itself has no copyright anymore, so it is fair game. It is only when used for unauthorized commercial purposes that the IOC will intervene, because trademark still applies. Trademark, however, is not a consideration on Common or Wikipedia; we don't sell anything. — Edokter (talk) — 17:12, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

"Polish" Duchy of Prussia

DYK item states that the first Protestant translation of the New Testament into Polish was published by Jan Seklucjan in Königsberg, in the Polish fief Duchy of Prussia, between 1551 and 1553. The way this is phrased is misleading. I realize it says "Polish fief," but modern English-speaking readers not schooled in regional history would tend to assume that the Duchy of Prussia was "Polish" in the modern sense, i.e., inhabited by Poles. Ethnically, it was primarily German.

True, the duchy was formally enfoeffed to the Polish Crown following its creation in 1525, which was a consequence of the Protestant Reformation and secularization of the Teutonic Order, but it was not an integral part of Poland and its population was primarily German. Political control passed to Brandenburg in the early 17th century, eventually making the territory of the former Duchy of Prussia part of the Kingdom of Prussia and, after 1871, part of Germany — until 1945. Sca (talk) 12:55, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

I dunno what's the purpose of this (or what should have been done), but it has become moot since the item is now off the Main Page. If you've wanted a faster response, go to WP:ERRORS. (Or you probably knew that.) –HTD 16:23, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

What should be on Main Page?

I noticed there's a proposal for redesigning the Main Page. It seems to be working on the premise of keeping what we have, which seems to me to be a bit of a wasted opportunity. I'd seriously suggest we ditch ITN, as it is so confusing. It gives the impression that we're a news source, which we're not. Worse, it gives the impression that we're a rubbish news source. Any views? --Dweller (talk) 22:16, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Considering the high page views ITN gets, I really don't think readers would like it if we ditched ITN. I sometimes like to think of the readers as the silent members of the community, this is written for them you know. I would be opposed to a change that clearly upsets readers. On another note, I'd still like to get some type of GA link onto the main page. Ryan Vesey 22:25, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Page views aren't a good measure of the effectiveness of ITN, since it's natural that people will want to find encyclopaedic coverage of current events regardless of whether they get there through the main page or the search function. Click-through would be more useful as a metric but I don't believe Wikipedia tracks that level of information. A useful measurement would be one that accounts specifically for the role the main page had in driving traffic to a given article, which is something that could easily be tracked through the referrer header field on any other website. Is there any way to look at that data on Wikipedia? (as an aside, I also question the value of the ITN section on the main page) – NULL ‹talk›
‹edits› 23:16, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

I sometimes wish we'd create "Main page redirects" so that you could get an accurate count of views that came from the main page. Ryan Vesey 23:32, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

I think a radical change would be interesting. I know it's not ideal, but would it be feasible to put, similar to what we have in most articles now, a small feedback box on the mainpage asking if the change is better or worse (scale 1-5?) and what is better or worse about it. Maybe it could be, for a predetermined amount of time, fixed as a banner, not dissimilar to the donation banner, in the same place as the donation banner? If the feedback is overwhelmingly negative (determined statistically, no just pure percentages), then it should be reverted. Just my two cents. 81.157.1.104 (talk) 00:17, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

I would not accept a drastical change of the mainpage, but I am in favour to replace the ITN box with GA of the day. I am not a fan of updates, etc. Regards.--Kürbis (✔) 09:02, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

I think that if we need to remove content from the Main Page, ITN should be first to go. While Wikinews is not as good a news source as Wikipedia is, it is supposed to be one, and a link to our sister project should (in an ideal world) be all we need to cover the news. —Kusma (t·c) 10:05, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

(reset) ITN is useful for 'ongoing stories' (and discussions thereon), and contributing to the MP's general purpose of bringing to people's attention things they might not otherwise be aware of/look at. Jackiespeel (talk) 12:13, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

I think ITN is quite powerful in that it highlights that wikipedia is much more up to date compared to other encyclopaedia's, and also as a stepping off point for topical items - so if someone is interested in the political situation in Syria because it is in the news a lot at the moment, often in that situation there will be an ITN to feed them into the right area with an article that should be wikilinked to a lot of the appropriate related broader topics that have built up over time, so it basically works as a short term stored search for various topics that are temporarily going to be quite popular for visitors. --81.149.74.231 (talk) 15:05, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Tense in "golden toad" photo

The caption for the featured photo says

The golden toad (Bufo periglenes) is an extinct species of true toad that was once....

That's just incorrect English. If the toad is extinct, it needs to be described in the past tense. The article itself correctly uses the past tense, so I'm not sure why someone wanted to use incorrect English for the main page itself. --Trovatore (talk) 08:45, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

No, the present tense is used to indicate the continued extinction. Were the past tense to be used ('The golden toad was an extinct species...') it would imply that the extinction had ceased, something not possible. Otherwise the toad is described in the past tense ('...was once...'). Thanks! EDIT: Your complaint would be correct if the word 'extinct' were omitted. 81.157.1.104 (talk) 09:51, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

• Just to be pedantic, coming back from extinction may be possible. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:59, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Or indeed a Lazarus taxon — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.132.214.244 (talk) 11:18, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Image for a forthcoming TFA - opinions requested

• Wikipedia:Today's featured article/August 19, 2012 – Rus' Khaganate (a polity that flourished in Eastern Europe in the late 8th / early to mid-9th centuries)

When Raul654 added this article as the TFA for 19th August, he did so without an image. Neelix (talk · contribs) added the left-hand image with the caption "A painting depicting life during the Rus' Khaganate. I undid the addition, saying "image is so tangential to the blurb that it's best to run it without an image". Neelix has now added the right-hand image, with the caption "A painting depicting the funeral of a Rus' khagan", saying "Surely an image of the funeral of a Rus' Khagan is sufficiently illustrative of this subject". I disagree, so am bringing the matter here for wider discussion. Both images are in the article, but I think that the blurb should run without an image for three main reasons: (1) They are too small at blurb size to be visually interesting or informative, nor can they usefully be cropped to improve matters; (2) in neither case is the image important enough to the article's subject to be given prominence on the main page: even if viewed full-size by clicking through from the main page, the reader will see some 19th-century imaginary depictions of what life over 1,000 years earlier might have looked like; (3) It cannot be said of either of them that their subject-matter or relevance is so obvious that the word (pictured) is not required, but the images cannot be mentioned in the blurb without heavily rewriting part of it, which would not be the best use of words. What do others think? (Notifying Neelix, Raul654 and the TFA main author Briangotts (talk · contribs), although he has only edited once in 2012.) Bencherlite^Talk 10:40, 16 August 2012 (UTC)