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July 23

Baseball Illustrated Magazine

I am searching for information about Baseball Illustrated magazine. It was published in the 1960's and 70's. Specifically, I am trying to locate past issues for an article I am working on.

The person who runs this website may be able to help you. Or this one. Wonder why there are so many universities that host this type of stuff?--Anchoress 06:17, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

How do i learn

I believe you may be asking about Jehovah's Witnesses, the most prominent group that uses the name Jehovah. Their corporate body is the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. They maintain a Web site. I mention the Witnesses because the way you phrased your question sounds very similar to Witness literature.

-75Janice How do ilearn more about Jehovah God?

You can start with our articles Jehovah and God, or go to the nearest synagogue and ask a rabbi. Where do you live? —Keenan Pepper 04:22, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

'God God'? Jehovah means 'God'. This is like the Gili islands in Indonesia. 'Gili' means 'island', so that would make it the 'island islands'. There are more examples, but I forgot. DirkvdM 06:03, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Los Angeles Angels -- "the the Angels Angels". --K

Chai tea? How about PIN number or ATM machine? — Knowledge Seeker দ 07:00, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

See our aptly named article, RAS syndrome. Not many articles have a joke in the title.-gadfium 08:25, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Nice one! I completely forgot about "please RSVP"! — Knowledge Seeker দ 10:08, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pendle Hill in Lancashire="Pen" "dle" and "hill" all mean "hill" A threefer!-re,original question-Jehovah's Witnesses? hotclaws**==(81.134.68.10 08:34, 23 July 2006 (UTC))[reply]

Ah, wasn't that one on QI? DirkvdM 11:26, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Probably a language question now but dle means hill? What language/word does that come from? Rmhermen 16:25, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The La Brea Tar Pits = The the tar tar pits. User:Zoe|^(talk) 21:39, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That's interesting, if only we had more, oh wait List of tautological place names. MeltBanana 23:15, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Quite Interresting, actually. There's even a 'Hill Hill Hill Hill', Torpenhow Hill. DirkvdM 08:19, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe you want Judaism, Torah, Christianity, or Bible. Jehova usually (maybe always) refers to the god of the Abrahamic faiths, more specifically, to the Judeo-Christian ones. Emmett5 23:18, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hezbollah Rockets

What type of rockets are Hezbollah firing on Israel? Many thanks, --86.139.122.229 09:34, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The "Hizbollah :surprise" topic from yesterday might satisfy you for a moment... Evilbu 11:17, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Katyusha are the ones most people are worried about, very short range, low flying. --Fastfission 14:53, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Very inaccurate, too.--Patchouli 16:49, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The how do they manage to hit only soldiers (whilst Israel hits only civilians)? That would only work if all Israelis were soldiers. And maybe that isn't too far from the truth. DirkvdM 18:39, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

They hit only soldiers? Strange, in CNN, Sky One, and BBC the reporters quite clearly say that mainly civilians in Haifa, Tel Aviv, etc are the victims. But Dirk perhaps you are watching Al Jazeera which is as a quite impartial newsnetwork (not). Flamarande 18:55, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Don't bother, Flamarande. Twisted as it may seem, there are some that view all Israelis and all Zionists as soldiers, and hence legitimate targets. A rather convenient rationalization of terrorism, don't you think?

In fact I myself am an unapologetic Zionist, so I suppose it would be perfectly ok according to this twisted rationale for the Hezbollah to knock on my door and behead me alive. Oh well...the life of a Jew... Loomis 22:10, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Even Hezbollah's Secretary General Hasan Nasrallah acknowledges that they've killed Muslim children. (Probably referring to Mahmoud Talussi, 4, and Rabiah Talussi, 7). Of course, he apologized and said they were martyrs, which is no doubt quite comforting. - Nunh-huh 19:07, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

One wonders why that "honorable follower of God" doesn't pick up a gun and fights like a real Muhajadhin in the frontlines against Israeli soldiers, instead of hiding in a safe location and making political statements which are worth Camel dung. I mean if he dies a martyr he will get 30 virgins, so why does he hide his sorry as*? Could it be that he doesn't really believe what he preaches? (imagine that - how unexpected :( ) Flamarande 19:50, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Right. And GW Bush should be on the front lines in Iraq. Or maybe that's not how leadership works. --Fastfission 21:09, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

<---- But there is the diffrence: Bush doesn't preach the glory of martyrdom. And he doesn't claim that a martyr will get a lot of virgins in heaven. Still, he lies alot like any good politician.Flamarande 21:15, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

File:Nuns.jpg - Nunh-huh 00:37, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe its because hes not a muslim. Philc _T^E_C^I 00:34, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm confused Phil. Yes Bush is not a Muslim, and yes "Bush doesn't preach the glory of martyrdom." That's a good thing, no? I'm confused by what you said. I'm assuming you had a good point, but perhaps you should clarify it so the rest of us can understand. Loomis 01:50, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I lived in Iran in my childhood and I don't recall any mullah talking about women in paradise. It could be that I wasn't paying attention.--Patchouli 06:12, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I stirred up something it seems. Not that I didn't realise that - it's just what I like to do. :)

Ok, I exaggerated, but what I heard on the (Dutch) news is that in Israel it is mostly soldiers who get killed, whereas the Israelis themselves kill mostly civilians (and many more too).

Then again, I don't exaggerate as much as some others (as is to expected with a controversial subject). DirkvdM 08:25, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

To answer the original question correctly, the answer is not Katyushas. They have a very limited range and could only hit Haifa if launched within Israel itself. While there are Katyushas being fired into Israel by Hezbolla, that's nothing particularly out of the ordinary. BBC TV News was more certain than this ([[1]]) BBC Online piece, but it seems they're Iranian Fajr missiles, or possibly Zelzals. Whatever they are, they're not very nice. --Dweller 10:14, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, they're weapons, they're not supposed to be nice. :) DirkvdM 19:28, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Why are nunchakus illegal in so many places?

P ?

I don't know the full rationale (i.e. why nunchaku are illegal but small handguns are not), but I imagine it is for the same reason that brass knuckles are generally illegal and many other small, concealable, hand-to-hand violent weapons are illegal. It strikes me as very strange that certain classes of deadly weapons are illegal while others are often quite legal. --Fastfission 14:46, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe because there isn't a National Nunchaku Association. --Kainaw ^(talk) 17:03, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Nunchakas don't kill people. Ninjas kill people Bwithh 18:56, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Oh brother is this a poor copy of the old phrase: "Guns do not kill people, people kill people"? That is an old excuse of the NRA. It is quite wrong you know? "Guns do not kill people. People with guns kill people (usually). " Flamarande 19:43, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There is a stereotype that Americans do not understand irony or sarcasm. I wonder where this came from? Skittle 20:22, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

<---- Classy Skittle, real classy. Which "American" are you refering to, Skittle? Seems to be Flamarande. From what I can tell from Flamarande's userpage, s/he is not at all from the US. (Though, Flamarande, I apologize for speaking on your behalf...if you are indeed American, or if you disagree in any way with what I'm saying, my full apologies go out to you). Loomis 23:34, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In all fairness, people outside the US dont give one about the NRA, so that was probably the major pointer in Skittles assumption. Philc _T^E_C^I 00:31, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I do Phil, and I'm not American. The irony of it all (I suppose I'm capable of understanding irony because I'm not American:) ) is that I probably agree with Skittle's underlying point 100% My position: (Except for the police and the military,) guns should be banned outright. The 2nd ammendment should be repealed. For goodness sake, 30,000 Americans die each year from gun related deaths. Compared to countries like the UK with extremely tough gun laws, the amount of deaths in the US, per capita, is staggering. Is "sport hunting" really that important? Anyway, I know this position may be extremely uncharacteristic of me, throwing me into the extreme left-wing of US politics, but what's right is what's right. So Skittle, (if I'm reading you right) I totally agree with you. I'd just kindly ask that you try your best to avoid stereotypes. I know, I know, living right next door to the US I've got a whole bunch of my own, so it may be hard to resist. And Phil, thanks for playing referee, as always, we tend to get far too personal here, myself included. All the best. Loomis 01:44, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Flamarande may of just had a really long night and needs some sleep. --mboverload @ 20:23, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

For the record, that Flamarande may or may not be American, and that the people whose irony/sarcasm Flamarande was probably too tired to understand probably were American, was why I thought it would be okay to write what I did. I thought all these circumstances combined would make this a clear, gentle suggestion that people were not being serious. Note the 'stereotype' in my comment. It was meant to illicit a 'oh, right' from Flamarande, and be a slight comment on confirmation bias. Hey ho. Skittle 12:22, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

For the record, I was trying to be witty, not necessarily in a sarcastic, but definitely in a light-hearted way (aren't ninjas now the height of camp?); I'm a Chinese Londoner in NYC with British attitudes towards gun control; and judging by the use of "Oh brother", I would guess that Flamarande is indeed American though probably not a stereotype, and of German/Spanish ancestry according to her user page. Bwithh 23:53, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

<--- That's weird, my friend has a pair of them and he was never arrested. Anyways, many edged weapons are illegal as well. However, my impression is that ninjas never used nunchakus because there's no actual record concerning their use. And of course, I feel sorry for poor Grand Master Hatsumi for the appropriation of ninjas by popular culture. --ColourBurst 22:59, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

According to a documentary of Bruce Lee that I saw, he saw nunchukus being used as part of a dance and decided they would be cool weapons for his next movie. After that, they were all the rage in the king-fu subculture. --Kainaw ^(talk) 12:24, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

For the record I am not a US citizen, I am bloody proud European (and therefore cultural superior to these colonial descendants LOL :). I was really tired and my English is far from perfect. Re-reading the statement of Bwithh I can see it was meant as a joke, something which somehow I misunderstood (again I was tired and not thinking straight, sorry). The comment of Skittle is a fair response and a light joke about the US personal guns policy (at least I understand as such). I am not afraid or angry if somebody doesn't agree with me, in fact I value honesty and open debate (properbly argued of course). All the best Flamarande 20:19, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There are so many weird and controversial laws and legalities, that this is just one of them.

Free Born Society

[http://www.freedomnowok.org] [http://www.freedomnowok.org/WP.html]

Please include these links under The Free Born Society —The preceding unsigned comment was added by FreeBornAngel (talk • contribs) 22:26, 23 July 2006.

Not an appropriate question. Try the help desk. Besides, no links exist for that organization. --ColourBurst 23:00, 23 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Someones doing a bit of publicity on their site, me suspects... Philc _T^E_C^I 00:29, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

We should nowiki these things whenever we spot them, lest they get the benefit anyway. Geogre 12:02, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

July 24

Flip Wilson joke

I found the following joke in the Wikipedia article about Flip Wilson. I don't get it. Could someone explain the punch line for me?

This is a story about a Roman. His name was Herman. His name was Roman Herman. The fad of the era was berries. People collected berries. They were a status symbol. One day, while Roman Herman was roaming the outskirts of Rome, he spied a berry. It was the most beautiful berry he had ever seen. He took the berry and brought it to his wife, who loved berries. She saw the berry. She praised it. She said "That's an awful nice berry you got there Herman!" Pretty soon, word got around about the berry. People came from all over Rome to see the berry, and to praise it. One night, there was a menacing knock on the door. It was late. Herman opened it. He said "Who are you?" They said "We've come for your berry." He says "It's not my berry, it's my wife's berry. Have you come to praise her berry?" They say, "No, we've come to seize her berry, not to praise it."

I bet it makes more sense if you hear it out loud. I've noticed that "seize her" sounds a bit like "Caesar." Perhaps that is part of the joke?

Also, does this question belong here, in the Humanities Reference Desk? Should I have asked on the Flip Wilson article discussion page, or maybe somewhere else?

--66.67.106.36 03:23, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Here is more appropriate than the Flip Wilson talkpage. Talkpages are for discussing article content.--Anchoress 03:35, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This is a great place for your question! The joke is a long setup, to the final quote from the mob: "We've come to seize her berry, not to praise it." This is a pun based on the famous speech from Shakespeare's Julius Caesar by Marc Antony:

   Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your ears; 
   I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him.

The whole speech is in Act 3, Sc. II; for instance readable here. --ByeByeBaby 03:37, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

For more on this type of humor, see Shaggy dog story (third paragraph). --Kevin Myers | (complaint dept.) 03:56, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Aw, that's disappointing. I hate Shakespeare, I don't know how anyone can understand his writing. Its like that language from the Darmok episode of Star Trek, The Next Generation.

--66.67.106.36 05:14, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's a lame joke, it's way too long and it's only for a small group of insiders. But then, what can one expect from someone named Clerow? DirkvdM 08:42, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting that you describe a joke based on one of literature's most famous lines as "for a small group of insiders". You'd need to think about what audience the joke was aimed at when written/performed. I can think of comedy venues in the UK where it would bomb and others where (if someone other than me made the gag) it would go down very well indeed. Most humour has a large slice of cultural/educational elements that help or hinder them. Even silent slapstick. --Dweller 10:24, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

And, of course, the overlength of the joke is half the point of this particular genre of humor. As in the famous joke "The Aristocrats", you want to make 'em wait, and then wait some more, and then laugh and/or groan at the punchline, which verges on the anti-joke. --Kevin Myers | (complaint dept.) 11:59, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The set-up was incredibly long. o.o --Proficient 12:10, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Definition of Holistic Living

American Holistic Health Association (AHHA) promotes and explains what is holistic approach to health. I tried to find definition or meaning for the term ‘Holistic Living’ as we plan to organize a Symposium on ‘Holistic Living’. I could not find clear meaning or definition in Wickipedia, Google or Yahoo. However, www.vyasa.org states that ‘Yoga is Science of Holistic Living’ (Editorial, Yoga Sudha, July 2006). Understanding the Yogic way of life, as described by sage Patanjali on three principles namely Ahhaar (food), Vihaar (exercise) and Vichaar (thinking). I define ‘Holistic Living’ as follows:

Holistic Living may be defined as simple and spiritual living with moderation in food intake, adequate exercise and positive thinking and attitude to life. Yoga is Science of Holistic Living.

OR

Holistic Living is an art of living in harmony with Nature and concern to the whole universe.

Prof. B. C. Harinath, Director, JB Tropical Disease Research Centre & Coordinator, Arogyadham, Mahatma Gandhi Institute of Medical Sciences Sevagram (Wardha) – 442 102 Web: www.jbytdrc.org, www.mindandbodyhealth.org

Holistic living means living in a holistic manner and as your quotes show different people have different opinions on what that entails. As there is no one description of what holistic living is, you are better off reading the holistic article and drawing your own conclusions on what a holistic lifestyle should be. The simplest definition of holistic I know is "an awareness of the interconnectedness of all things" from Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency. MeltBanana 13:15, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Fundamental interconnectedness, I believe. JackofOz 20:50, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Living as a whole and not overly concerned with the parts. --Proficient 12:20, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

History of Street names

I would very much like to know the reason why the following two roads were named.

Rosemary Lane, Pett and Fairlight, East Sussex

and

Peter James Lane, Fairlight, East Sussex.

Can anyone help? Thank you

I would suggest you might have your best luck for getting these questions answered by calling the local council office for the area (I'm not sure of the organizational structure in England, but here in Canada, street names are given by the city or town council). Looks like that would be the East Sussex County Council office, actually, from some quick Googling. Chances are, they have a naming scheme of some sort, and will probably have some idea on these names. Good luck! Tony Fox (speak) 16:26, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Battles won against overwhelming odds

Is there such a list on Wikipedia? I tried looking at [[2]] but no joy.

I can think of a few candidates, mostly won by various forces against forces which were vastly technologically inferior.

I wondered what was "the most extraordinarily long-odds against victory" won by a side battling another with reasonably comparable arms technology?

The Battle of Thermopylae (a few thousand vs 200,000 at a conservative estimate) would be a great contender, except that, erm, the Spartans ended up losing. :-) --Dweller 11:28, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

One of the problems would be that each "won against overwhelming odds" is also a "lost due to terrible planning/incompetence." I mean, if you put on there Battle of Secessionville, you have a great victory or a great fiasco. If you put on Battle of Shiloh, the same. Isn't Kaison one of the greats? Well, depends on who you are. Geogre 11:56, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe they meant the battle of Marathon. Rmhermen 17:12, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Regardless of planning/incompetence, if the Spartans had won at Thermopylae with an army of roughly equivalent technology, but outnumbered c. 100:1 (conservative estimate) and possibly much more, that's a pretty extraordinary achievement. The two examples you give (I can find no info on the "battle of Kaison" on Google) roughly equate at 2:1 and 1.25:1, which aren't stupendous odds to overcome. Can anyone come up with victories overcoming odds of 10:1 or more, without overwhelming technological superiority? --Dweller 15:23, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

By Kaison Geogre may have meant the Battle of Khe Sanh AllanHainey 07:49, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I did, and the numerical difference was around the 10:1, but I knew that my spelling would be ludicrous, so I didn't put much effort in it. Geogre 12:01, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Battle of Agincourt. Unless you count the longbow as an overwhelming technological superiority. (It may not quite have made it to 10:1, but not far off). DJ Clayworth 17:24, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The longbow definitely did constitute an overwhelming technological superiority. Being the only one able to fight at a distance helps cut down the enemy's strength before they reach you and can start to fight themselves.

Two examples I can think of are the defeat of the Spanish armada, partly caused by the bloody English weather (which for once was good for something), and a Germanic tribe against a bunch of cocky, overly self-assured Romans. I can't remember which tribe that was, though. Somewhere in Belgium I believe. Of course, the Romans came back a bit later, less cocky, and wiped them out. DirkvdM 19:41, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Are you referring to Battle of the Teutoburg Forest? It took place in southern Germany, and after that the Romans never did properly 'come back', but left Germania alone. — QuantumEleven 05:55, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No, he meant the slaying of 7,200 of Caesar's men by Eburon leader Ambiorix. According to Caesar of course, who also claimed it happened through treachery - some say Ambiorix never existed and Julius needed somehow to explain how he lost all those men. Whatever really happened, it did not stop him from exterminating the Eburons afterwards. Ambiorix himself is supposed to have fled across the Rhine. The Eburons were a Germanic tribe, not a Celtic one, as one may have guessed from the location. The odds of this "battle" (and that is the problem - Caesar at least suggests it was not really a battle) are unclear, but must have been high. --Pan Gerwazy 01:04, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The crusaders won the Battle of Montgisard against Saladin, both sides were about technologically equal, but Saladin had maybe 5 or 6 times as many troops. In the First Crusade, the crusaders defeated a Muslim alliance at the Siege of Antioch, with far fewer troops (although I suppose an army of saints and angels counts as a technological superiority...). Adam Bishop 21:22, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Now hold on - I wouldn't say they were technologically equal. The famed mounted Turkish archers were very surprised to see their deadly arrows bouncing off the heavy metal armor of the Frankish knights. Granted, the surprise might have worn off since the last crusade, but militaries often are very conservative and resistant to change. It was common for the Frankish knights to wade through many times their number while suffering few losses. The armor made a huge difference --Bmk 23:36, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

True but the majority of crusaders were not heavily-armoured knights. That probably helped at Montigsard, since the army was small enough that the number of knights was relatively large. But in the First Crusade, those that were had often lost their armour and horses by the time they fought at Antioch. The mounted Turkish archers were more of a technological superiority than heavy Frankish cavalry, in some ways (heavy cavalry could not chase them, for example). And the crusaders often fell for the Turkish trick of feigning retreat, so they might end up surrounded, or they trusted too much in religion and relics when they were otherwise outnumbered and outsmarted (like the Battle of Hattin).

By the way, back to the original question, what about the Battle of Chateauguay? Canadian militia defeating American regulars, or so we'd like to believe :) Or the Battle of Ain Jalut, if only because the Mongols were (up to that point) apparently unstoppable? Adam Bishop 02:00, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

For battles where one side had an overwhelming technological advantage, Rorke's Drift, at 35:1 odds, was pretty impressive, as was the 1:35 casualty ratio. --Serie 22:22, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The great battle of Munich on September 1, 2001, England fought germany, and won, conclusively. Philc _T^E_C^I 22:10, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A single game is not that important. In 1966 they also won against Germany but you don't mention it. I wonder why, because the referee helped them alot? Face it: the English only won the World Cup~a single time under dubious circunstances, while Germany won it 3 times (being 5 times in the finals). Remember the 1996 European Championship "it´s coming home" :)? Flamarande 20:38, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Jesus Christ man, take a chill pill. It was a joke (you might want to see the article, particulalrly the section on spotting them, if there is one). And more to the point, we won 4 - 2 thats right, 4 - 2 even if you take away that goal we still won, because it was 4 - 2. Got that (4 - 2). God man, chill out, and get over it. Philc _T^E_C^I 21:00, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I am not mad and I am chilled, I found it rather amusing :) The English national football team won that time, but they never won any major cup since. :)Flamarande 22:14, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, but did they play with only 5 players or something? Or am I just being silly thinking there should be at least some relation to the original question? :) DirkvdM 08:01, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah the english team that was heavily expected to lose to a stronger german side in germany in 2001, came away 5 - 1 winners. I thought it was a pretty low odds victory, especially considering the margin. But Flamarande took it a bit to heart. Philc _T^E_C^I 14:34, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Try the Battle of Watling Street, aka the defeat of Boudica, in AD 61. Ten thousand Romans beat nearly a quarter of a million Britons, if you believe the Roman accounts. --Nicknack009 18:46, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Common Date

Common Date,what does it mean?

Are you thinking of Common Era? —Keenan Pepper 16:49, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Why is Israel hated in the Middle-East

Why does the middle-east nations hate Israel, so much? 16:35, 24 July 2006 (UTC) by a user from 66.87.95.91

Because it drove hundreds of thousands of Palestinians from their land, and has since 1967 occupied the West Bank, where millions of Palestinians live under a military regime and are ethnically cleansed to make space for settlers. David Sneek 19:29, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You'd be lucky to get a buck an acre for that crappy land. It's a desert. It all sucks the same. =D--mboverload @ 22:33, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

See Arab-Israeli conflict. Nowimnthing 19:29, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

So let's reverse this: why do Israelis hate Arabs so much? DirkvdM 19:43, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

See 1948 Arab-Israeli War, Six-Day War, and Yom Kippur War Nowimnthing 20:10, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hmmm...the problem is more complex than bodies of people unified under nations interacting uniformly. Most of the rulers of the middle east, perhaps Iran excluded, would rather just do business with Israel than fight. Unfortunately, public opinion and armed Islamic militias operating partly within government organizations prevent them from making peace and getting on with their lives. And as for the Palestinians, I think the Arab governments are more irate that they've been driven onto their lands, rather than from their homes. Palestinian refugees are a major economic and political problem; they tend to be unskilled, well armed, and pissed off (not without reason). For an example, see Black September, an unpleasant but historically interesting event. I might also note that there really is no historical enmity between Arabs and Jews. They have coexisted relatively peacefully for millenia. --Bmk 20:30, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I would disagree with David Sneek's comments. To avoid turning this into a never-ending argument, I'm going to avoid refuting his accusations about Israel. But regardless of whether Arabs have justifiable grudges against Israeli behavior, I don't think the issue is Israeli tactics. After all, it's not like the rest of the Arab or Muslim world really gives a damn about the Palestinians. Look at how the Kuwaitis treated Palestinians. The 1982 massacres in Palestinian refugee camps were committed by Lebanese, not Israelis. Egypt does everything it can to keep the Palestinians in Gaza from entering Egypt.

So if the Arab countries (and Iran) don't care about the wellbeing of the Palestinians, why do so many Arabs and Muslims hate Israel? The answer is a mix of nationalism with old-fashioned antisemitism. Consider the following comment from Brigitte Gabriel, who was raised in Lebanon and later lived in Israel and the United States:

"From Television programs, to national songs, hourly radio newscasts and newspapers, our citizens were fed a steady diet of lies poisoning our attitudes towards the Jews. Israel - Aaesrael , Israel is the devil. Al-Yahud shayateen, The Jews are evil. Sarakou Al-Ard Al Arabiyah. They stole Arab land. Al Wakt al wahid allazi yassir endana salam huwa lamma naqtul kul al yahud wa narmihum bil bahr, The only time we'll have peace in the Middle East is when we kill all the Jews and drive them into the sea. Every time Israel was mentioned it was attached to the phrase, Al adew al Israeli. The Israeli enemy."

Arab textbooks portray Jews (and Christians) as evil infidels. The Arab media is full of antisemitic libels like the Protocols of the Elders of Zion (serialized on Egyptian television) or the claim that Jews or Israelis were responsible for 9/11 (created by Hezbollah's TV station).

This religious bigotry mixes in with a nationalist component. Radical Muslims don't like having a state not under Muslim control so close to the Islamic heartland. In a recruiting tape, Osama bin Laden says "the crusaders and the Jews have joined together to invade the heart of Dar al-Islam (The Abode of Islam): our most sacred places in Saudi Arabia, Mecca and Medina, including the prophet's Mosque, and the al-Aqsa Mosque and Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem (al-Quds)."

So even if Israel withdraws from every inch of the West Bank and eastern Jerusalem, it's still going to be surrounded by millions of people filled with murdurous hatred for the country. That isn't going to change anytime soon. I can't imagine a peace between Israel and its neighbors similar to, say, the peace between Germany and France in the foreseeable future. The best we can have is a cold peace maintained through the balance of military power. -- Mwalcoff 00:10, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Mwalcoff- so what is the Israeli analogue to the Arab sentiments? I've seen what you've stated repeated in other media many times now, that Arab portrayals of Jews are very negative, with the Hamas and Hezbolla missions being to wipe out Israel at the extreme end of the spectrum of Arab feeling towards Israel. So my question is what is the Israeli attitude? It seems to me that they employ palestinians, they trade with arab countries, and they do not have similar organisations like Hamas or Hezbolla that are shouting for wiping out all Arab countries.

-- Drunk Cow, 03:08, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, there are some extremist Israeli organizations like the banned Kach movement. But they remain on the fringe and don't have a lot of support like Hamas and Hezbollah do among Palestinians and Lebanese Shia, respectively. I think that Israel has always tried in some ways to be accepted by its neighbors as one of the gang. The founders of the state asserted that Israel would be a felafel-eating Middle Eastern country -- that's why they chose the Middle Eastern-sounding adjective "Israeli" rather than "Israelian" or something. Every public-school student in Israel learns Arabic. There's a lot of Arabic words in Modern Hebrew slang. The Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs brags about its peace treaties with Jordan and Egypt and low-level relations with other Arab and Muslim countries, even as those countries act as if they are embarrassed they ever made peace. That said, goodwill can only last so long. I remember reading about a teenager who had been hurt and lost several friends in the 2001 Dolphinarium massacre. She spoke to an American audience and really touched them with her story. Then someone asked what she thought about the Palestianians, and she said something to the effect that she has no sympathy for them and that they can go to hell for all she's concerned. It was obviously somewhat shocking for an American audience to hear, but you certainly can understand where that feeling comes from. -- Mwalcoff 02:32, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Just a personal anecdote to perhaps add some context: My uncle was born in East Jerusalem in the '20s, while the Brits were in control. Then in 1948 Jordan "occupied" the West Bank and East Jerusalem, forcing all Jews in the area to flee from their land. Why is so little spoken of the Jordanian/Arab occupation of the West Bank and East Jerusalem, and the "stealing" of land that was occupied for centuries by Jews? Loomis 06:29, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Mwalcoff, I saw something similar in a documentary about Israel, where Israeli kids spoke of Palestinians being an evil that needed to be wiped out, or something along those lines. The media are extremely important. Not only do people get fed lies on both sides (as is normal in a wartime situation), but in other countries the media will generally tell the people what they want to hear. So if the general attitude is pro-Israel, then so will the major media be. And if there are opposing views on different 'channels' then people will only look at the ones that support their view. But even if you try to avoid that, there's a regional link. For example, I read Dutch newspapers and watch Dutch, Belgian and English tv stations (BBC). Not CNN. And that is bound to colour my view. Also, the relevancy of what someone like Bin Laden says depends on how seriously he is taken where it matters - not in the west, but in the Arab nations. And I doubt there will be many Arabs who take his words seriously. DirkvdM 08:24, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You also pointed out an important aspect, something I heard when I was a kid, that among the Arabs, the Palstinians are regarded as 'an inferior caste' or something like that. As a result they didn't get any support from the oil-rich Arab nations that could have stopped Israel. But just now I saw in a documentary that the Palestinian in Lebanon, who were originally fugitives themselves are now welcoming Lebanese fugitives in their homes. Funny situation - you're a refugee in your own country and get help from immigrants. Also, there was this Lebanese woman on tv who said that at first they were not associated with Hesbollah, but have become suporters since the Israeli attacks. A common enemy is a very strong unifyng force. So far, Israel has had the upper hand, but if it keeps this up the Arabs could decide to unite after all. And if the foreign support falls away (which it loks like right now) then they could be in for some very serious trouble. DirkvdM 09:48, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Exclusionary rule

Could someone please provide me with some examples of American criminal court cases in which the exclusionary rule was used to clear the defendant of his charges?--208.100.200.142 18:24, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In Weeks v. United States, the earliest example, a conviction was overturned on appeal. Or do you mean cleared in the original trial? Neon Merlin 18:33, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That was the case in which the rule was first established. Could you provide notable examples of cases since the establishment of the exclusionary rule in which the rule was used to prevent convicting evidence from being used in court?.--208.100.200.142 19:23, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

LGPL

The Nuvola icons were released under the LGPL by author David Vignoni. Does this mean that he is required to provide the source files for all the icons? Presumably, all of these icons were based on vector drawings, but some of them are available only in bitmap form. Neon Merlin 18:25, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Keeping the vectors does not restrict the usage of the bitmapped files in a way comparable with loathed DRM approaches. It is clear from the intent of the LGPL that the clauses requiring a lack of restrictions mean special restrictions that would prohibit re-use of the copyrighted work. To interpret that as requiring the source files for all images would have ridiculous consequences—a photoshopped file would require release of the PSD file with all layers available, and any cropping or resizing of a photograph would be verboten. The obvious intent of the LGPL is to prohibit someone from encrypting their code or their data, which is clearly not what is going on when something is rasterized. --Fastfission 16:42, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't agree with Fastfission's analysis. I'd say that the LGPL doesn't work very well for image data of that type. The LGPL requires releasing source code, which is defined as the preferred form for modifying a program. IMO, source code would indeed correspond to the vector drawings, layers, etc. for an image if those existed. However, of course, as the author, David Vignoni is the only one in a position to enforce the license, and he's not likely to enforce it against himself. So he can release files as bitmaps or vectors as he chooses. But if someone else gets vectors and modifies them, I'd say they're obligated to release the modified vectors if they publish bitmaps made from the vectors. These days when I upload pictures to Commons, I use the GFDL (which isn't that great for pictures either), and try to upload the closest thing available to "source code", i.e. the original image out of the camera in addition to any cropped or adjusted versions. Phr (talk) 18:43, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"...David Vignoni is the only one in a position to enforce the license...." Why is that? It sounds to me like a weakness of the licenses, if it means they can be applied to works that don't comply with them. Also, if only the original author of a work can enforce the license, that creates the problem if the author is incapacitated without a power of attorney, or simply too busy to go after violations. Neon Merlin 18:51, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Israel vs. Arab

Hi:

Who is right? -- Israel or Arabs?

The Bible says Israel people lived where they are now at least 3000 years ago.

But medieval and modern history shows that Ottoman empire owns the lands before 20th century.

So who is the true owners of Jerusalem?

L33th4x0r 19:53, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The bible is nonsense. History is interesting, but not every historical claim can be rewarded - too many things have happened in the past, not every injustice can be set right. So it's up to those who live now to solve this. Most of the people in the world feel that Israel should withdraw within its 1967 borders, and there should be a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza, with Jerusalem as a capital for both states. But unfortunately the Israeli settlement policy is aimed at preventing this, and supported by the most powerful country in the world, the USA. David Sneek 20:10, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. But I thought Tel Aviv was the capital of Israel, no? L33th4x0r 04:01, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No.

It's Jerusalem. --Dweller 09:08, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Not to sound like a hippie, but the whole concept of owning land (let along being the true owner) is kinda weird. Imagine what it was like the first time one person told another, "Hey, I own that part of the ground. You can't walk there." It's like the old sitcom plot of drawing a line down the middle of a room. I saw we treat Isreal like a toy two children are fighting over and just take it away from them until they can calm down and be adults! :) 128.197.81.223 20:14, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Nice idea, but who are "we"? --Bmk 20:23, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That thar's a good point. The UN? Not that it would actually work... (Tempted to say the US is "we", because well.. y'know.. pronouns). Digfarenough 20:37, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's a fantastic idea. You're about 50 years late, though, because that's what was done in 1947/8. "Palestine", as ruled by the British, was divided into territories for Jews and Arabs. It was the surrounding Arab states that destroyed the plan in 1948 by invading Israel and seizing Gaza and the West Bank for themselves, instead of for the Palestinian people. Not sure why it would work second time around. --Dweller 09:25, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well "Who owns Jerusalem?" is not really the right way to phrase the question. It's owned by the landowners who have title to the land. The real question is what state it should be in or who should govern it. History doesn't really help settle the question. It was Ottoman for centuries, but no one thinks it ought to be given back to Turkey. The 1947 UN Partition Plan, had it been implemented, would have put Jerusalem under some sort of international control. Instead, it was split between Israel and Jordan in the 1948-49 war. But the international community by and large did not recognize that division. In 1967's Six Day War, Israel reunified the city. Yet most countries, including the United States, continue to abide by the legal fiction that Jerusalem, or at least the eastern part of it, is not really part of Israel and is instead some sort of diplomatic no-man's land. So I don't really know if you can say "who is right" using history as a guide. I think if you look at most borders in the world, you'll see they were adopted either on the battlefield or at the negotiating table (sometimes after a war). Presumably, what we'll see eventually is a division between "Jerusalem" and a Palestinian city called "Al-Quds." That's certainly not going to happen in the near future; I don't think the Israelis are going to put an international border 2 or 3 miles from their Parliament building while a terrorist group opposed to Israel's existence controls the Palestinian government. -- Mwalcoff 23:25, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If it was easy to determine who is "right", this whole mess could have been nipped in the butt. Unfortunately this is something that has been talked and fought over for ages, so there's no easy answer to this question. - Mgm|^(talk) 20:36, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Flood Isreal: First nation to evolve gills wins. Digfarenough 20:39, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Two comments from me...

1. The historical argument is a bit of a nonsense. Where do you draw the line... with any country? Should Australia be handed back to the Aborigines, USA to the native Americans? Read the bible and you'll find that the Jews under King David conquered Jerusalem from the Jebusites. Want to try handing it back to them? You'll be hard-pressed to find one. The state of Israel is a fact on the ground. It doesn't matter who owned what in history.

1. Unfortunately, Israel handing land back is a nice idea but also won't (on its own) bring peace. Israel withdrew a couple of years ago from Southern Lebanon and some months ago from Gaza... the current problems emanated from exactly those two (no longer occupied) territories. The sad fact is that while Hizbolla and Hamas (among others) are supported by an official line from Iran that Israel should be wiped off the map, the violence will continue for ever, whatever concessions Israel could possibly make. --Dweller 09:19, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A joke I saw on the Web: The Israeli Ambassador at the U.N. began, "Ladies and gentlemen before I commence with my speech, I want to relay an old Passover story to all of you ...

"When Moses was leading the Jews out of Egypt toward the Promised Land, he had to go through the nearly endless Sinai desert. The people became thirsty and needed water. So Moses struck the side of a mountain with his staff and a pond appeared with crystal clean, cool water. The people rejoiced and drank to their hearts' content.

"Moses wished to cleanse his whole body, so he went over to the other side of the pond, took all of his clothes off and dove into the cool waters. Only when Moses came out of the water, he discovered that all his clothes had been stolen. 'And,' he said, 'I have reasons to believe that the Palestinians stole my clothes.'"

The Palestinian delegate, hearing this accusation, jumps from his seat and screams out, "This is a travesty. It is widely known that there were no Palestinians there at that time!"

"And with that in mind," said the Israeli Ambassador, "let me now begin my speech." Bibliomaniac15 00:44, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The U.N. is right, ask them as they are the ones resposible for such things in this world.

LAURYN HILL FANS...I NEED LYRICAL HELP!!!

To anyone and everyone that listens to Lauryn Hill: At the beginning of Doo Wop (That Thing), does anyone know the SPOKEN WORDS that she SAYS, not sings, before the singing/rapping begins?

All the websites dedicated to lyrics start off with "It's been three weeks since..." and not "Yo, remember back..". I know the song pretty much by heart but the first 30 seconds or so is pretty confusing.

If anyone can help, please post what they think is the lyrics. Thanks! -Andrewia 20:17, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Here's what I can figure out -

Yo, remember back on the boogie when cats used to harmonize like...(woo woo). My men and my women, don't forget about the (not sure). It's about a thing. If you feel real good wave your hands in the air and (can't understand the rest).

The only website I could find was one that had to be translated from Chinese, but I disagree with some of the lyrics [3]. --Joelmills 02:24, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Here's one, don't know how accurate it is:

Yo, Remember back on da Boogie when Cats used to Harmonize like: woooooowhooohooo (check out the situation) My men and my women dont forget about the Dean The Sarat-al-Mustakeem, Yo its about a thing, If you feel real good Throw your hands in the air! (MUSIC STARTS) Admit two shots in the atmosphere! Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah

--Anchoress 03:50, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't mean to be rude, thanks for the help, but the first suggestion was no help because the (not sure)s are exactly what I need to find out. And the "Dean" thing doesn't make much sense either, unless someone can elaborate on the "Dean" and how they're relevant to the song.-Andrewia 05:54, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I just listened to it, and it's exactly as Anchoress quotes. I've always taken "Dean" as referring to James Dean. Sarat-al-Mustaqeem is the good life, the straight path to God in Islam, so I thought it was a bit of a warning - don't live life too fast and hard and forsake the good life ("don't forget about the Dean/ the Sarat-al-Mustaqeem"). In the context of the rest of the lyrics, this makes sense. To be honest, though, you are being a bit rude - you asked for the lyrics, not an interpretation, and the lyrics were provided. Please read the section at the top of the page, the part headed "Be specific" in particular - if you wanted an interpretation you should have asked for one. Your tone is quite snippy to volunteers trying to help you. Natgoo 18:04, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, sorry I was unclear/impolite. I understand the lyrics fully now, so all the help was welcome. Thank you, everybody!-Andrewia 18:15, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If it includes "sarat al-mustaqeem", perhaps the preceding word is "din", pronounced just like "dean", which means "religion" or "faith" in Arabic. Adam Bishop 05:37, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah that makes sense. Thanks! Natgoo 07:38, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Isn't Lauryn Hill a Methodist?-72.78.185.75 23:27, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

folio incognito: E. F. Schumacher

I think it was E. F. Schumacher who wrote something like the following, either in Small is beautiful or in This I believe:

A person with faith(?) strides with a certain confidence. He may love the Encyclopaedia Britannica for "she knows more than he", but ....

Web search rendered no result; I went to the library, checked out cursorily This I believe, and could not find the quote; someone else checked out Small is beautiful so I could not consult it. I would appreciate the exact quotation and citation. Cheers. – Kaihsu 20:42, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Education can help us only if it produces "whole men". The truly educated man is not a man who knows a bit of everything, not even the man who knows all the details of all subjects (if such a thing were possible): the "whole man" in fact, may have little detailed knowledge of facts and theories, he may treasure the Encyclopaedia Britannica because "she knows he needn't" but he will be truly in touch with the centre. He will not be in doubt about his basic convictions, about his view on the meaning and purpose of his life. He may not be able to explain these matters in words, but the conduct of his life will show a certain sureness of touch which stems from this inner clarity.

~Small is Beautiful, p. 100 (paperback edition)

Ziggurat 21:37, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Why is Israel attacking Beirut? Or Lebanon for that matter?

Ok. I am not biased on this subject in any way, I am not trying to provoke anger/flames with this question, but this is really confusing me. I understand (if not condone) the reason why Israel is attacking southern lebanon, Israel allegedly is trying to move hezbollah back from the border to secure its towns near the border (e.g. to make a "buffer zone").

But my question is why attack Beirut? This city is in the center of Lebanon, and by looking at a map, very far from Israel? Right? How could anyone or anything in this city be of a threat to Israel?

Hanez --216.211.78.176 23:48, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hezbollah is headquartered there. Israel is not attacking the Christian parts of the city. See this LA Times story. -- Mwalcoff 00:11, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Plus, they're doing theit best to destroy any means by which the two Israeli captured soldiers can be whisked off by air to an even more awful place, like Iran or Syria, while at the same time closing off all supply routes for the Hezbollah to rearm and resupply. All this involves destroying or at least incapacitating all airbases and airports, destroying the main land routes to Damascus, and blockading all sea ports.

You're right, it makes no sense for Israel to intentionally destroy anything or anybody that has no strategic value to their enemy, the Hezbollah, least of which the targetting of civilians, which if not simply for purely humanitarian reasons, would be against Israeli policy if anything because it would cause them to look like barbarians and thus lose even more international support

You don't have to condone what Israel is doing or even to trust Israel's commitment to humanitarian values to recognize that the targeting of civilians is, strategically, and tactically, both counterproductive as well as downright stupid. Israel hasn't established itself as such a successful military power by utilizing strategically and tactically counterproductive and stupid measures to win its wars in the past, and whatever your position on the issue, it would be illiogical, in my opinion, to assume that they'd start now. Loomis 06:01, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Let's analyze the situation coldly and with a bit of care. Lebanon has a alltoo weak goverment and Hezbollah has a lot of influence (indeed some might say that it is a state whithin the state) in the south of Lebanon with arms depots, fighters, bases etc. Israel was certainly not happy by this situation but aslong the raids were neglegible they tolerated it. The Lebanese goverment could not expel Hezzbollah because of the later's popular support (and I really believe they would do it if they could). If they attempted it they would be branded as traitors and would pay with their lives for it.

Hezbollah in its "great wisdom" decided to kidnap some Israeli soldiers to force Israel to release some convicts/prisoners. This tactic had worked before and Israel is widely known to do almost everything to garantue the return of Israeli soldiers. But this time the Israeli govement realized that if they keept doing it, they really are reinforcing Hezzbolah's prestige (Hezzbolah presents it like this: "the valiant Mujadhin captured evil invading Israeli soldiers and their weak goverment released our innocent brothers" - this is not my POV by the way but how Hezzbollah sells it). To release any convict/prisoner is therefore impossible.

At the same time Hezzbollah has been stockpilling hundereds (perhaps even thousands) of rockets generously provided by Iran (perhaps also from Syria) (something which doesn't reassure noone in the nuclear plant issue). It was becoming quite dangerous and powerful.

Israel decided to show its own strength (they can't show any weakness) and attacked Lebanon. Israel is interrested in 4 things 1) kill as many Hezzbollah personel as possible. 2) Find the kidnapped soldiers, preferably alive but even dead. 3) Destroy as many Hezzbollah bases, arm depots, etcetera as possible. 4)Make the live of the Lebanese ppl so miserable so that the Lebanese goverment is really forced to expel Hezzbollah from Lebanon (or can believably claim to be forced to expel it). The last point is quite cruel but nevertheles true. The whole situation allready happened before, did you know that? With the PLO (in the 1982 Lebanon War) which was in the same country (Lebanon) and Israel invaded the south of Lebanon. The PLO went to Tunis.

This can backfire: the Lebanese ppl can decide to support Hezzbollah even more. This has been carefully weighed but the current situation is intolerable. Again: Israel can't show any weakness.

Meanwhile Syria threatens to attack Israel, I rather think it is mainly an empty threat, but who knows? Israel would win though. It is the regional power of that area. But the whole situation could escalate even further.

I will go even further: If Hezzbollah wasn't playing "Holy warrior" from safe havens in Lebanon Israel wouldn't attack that country. My arguments: Jordania and Egypt. Jordania and Egypt don't like Israel at all, but their goverments don't allow anyone to fire rockets from their national soils (or the contruction of any safe havens). And Israel returns the favour and doesn't bomb them at all. DA big disclamer: This is my only personal opinon - mainly an educated guess. Feel free to disagree. Flamarande 21:47, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'd like to link to an opinionated but intelligent article on the subject, if that's alright with you: http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=107&ItemID=10627 Sashafklein 18:50, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Not bad, not bad at all. Notice however that the PLO did indeed leave Lebanon in 1982. According to this article the real enemy is Iran (the major backer of Hezbollah) but somehow I don't see Israel attacking that country (too powerful and too far away - and "officially" Iran hasn't done anything yet). And NO, the US aren't going to attack Iran it for them. The US military is spread way too thin these days. The Israeli goverment is trying to force (or trying to offer an excuse to) the Lebanese goverment to expel Hexbollah in the name of the victimized Lebanese ppl. What else can Israel do? Sit tight and leave Hezbollah fire rockets at will, and make the occasional raid, taking IDF soldiers as prisoners? Ransom these prisoners for Arab prisoners, strengthening Hezbollah's prestige? It is a rotten world and noone has easy answers and solutions. Flamarande 16:09, 26 July 2006 (UTC) please sign your statements[reply]

Yeah. I was talking with my brother about that article, and it does seem that, like all the others, it offers no feasible alternative. I hope this has my signature. I tried to change something Sashafklein 18:50, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In response to the post above. Yes, Israel is targeting Christian areas and not just Muslims, and that was the great surprise among Lebanese and drove the foreign nationals to evade. If you don't believe me, here's a list of targeted christian areas: Jounieh, Sannine, Amchit, Batroun, Rashaya al-Foukhar, Ras Baalbeck, Baabda... and the list could go on. And why did it target Lebanese army positions while Olmert posed as a condition its deployment in the south? CG 18:07, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

4)Make the live of the (whole) Lebanese ppl so miserable so that the Lebanese goverment is really forced to expel Hezzbollah from Lebanon (or can believably claim to be forced to expel it). The Christians in Lebanon are Lebanese to. Notice however that the bombardment is relativly "lighter" in these areas. Flamarande 19:55, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

July 25

i need help please sir !

i have big problem in the vikipedia (Turkey) they have own web page but when u search the kurds u cant find they always deleting and blocked..in the turkey 20 million kurds are living but they wont put the aobut kurds aomting theyare still racist turks are racist please help we wanna write own culture ...is this free encycopeida right ? so where is the freedoms ? turk r racist they dont want we wirte someting...please fix u guys this problem about this thanks dont give the turks thiswebsite they are racist and stupid ! thanks bye —The preceding unsigned comment was added by DJFG (talk • contribs) .

There is nothing we at the English language Wikipedia can do about any other language's Wikipedia. You might want to contact Jimbo Wales. User:Zoe|^(talk) 02:45, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The reference desk is not the right place for this kind of discussion. Also, tr:Kürtler isn't deleted, although it does appear to have a large number of warning templates. Are you saying there's a big conspiracy of the Turkish admins to systematically bias the Turkish Wikipedia, or just that there are some Turkish users with strong feelings? —Keenan Pepper 02:53, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In my experience the edit-wars between Turkish nationals and Kurds are about on par with Israeli-Palestine relations. Unfortunately, as Zoe notes, unless we speak Turkish there's no way that someone on the English Wikipedia could intervene - we don't have any special authority on these matters, in any case. Ziggurat 03:11, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedias are separated by language, not nationality. There is a Kurdish Wikipedia, so you could edit that. I assume that there will be more Kurds who speak Turkish than Turks who speak Kurdish, so you actually have an advantage over the Turks, edit-wise. Alternatively, you could edit the English Wikipedia to reach the widest possible audience. Turks being quite westernised, I supose you would reach a fair amount of them this way too, especially the more intellectual ones who are more likely to rule the country one day, so they're an important group to convince of your views. For that to work, you'd have to use more diplomatic language than you did just now, though. DirkvdM 08:41, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting replies everyone... This is really giving me some more knowledge of the situation... To bad tv or newspapers didn't provide info like this. Hanez --216.211.53.147 04:16, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Did AC/DC play at a high school in Northern California?

Please help settle a dispute . . . Did AC/DC perform at Clayton Valley High School in Concord, California, in 1980 or 1981? Unless I am crazy, I seem to remember the band playing in the schools outdoor atrium . . .but no one seems to believe me. Hopefully, Wikipedia can find out something to prove me right or wrong . . .?! 66.169.118.223 04:51, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If it was part of their official tour it should be listed here [4]. They also have year by year history there and a quick look makes it look highly unlikely. They were starting the massive back in black tour in summer of 1980 to tens of thousands. Maybe it was a cover band [5] Nowimnthing 15:52, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

legends,stories

can u give me links to sites about festivals,legends,sayings ,rituals,poetry assciated with the land ,air ,water i india. the reason i am asking u to help me is because when i googled it the answers were not very relevant .

Please don't double post. DirkvdM 08:44, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

sorry but please can io have an answer

Try Indian folklore, Holidays in India, and Indian poetry. Nowimnthing 16:08, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

diversity

can u explain to me what is the diversity of environment in the world that supports life .--Mightright 07:09, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have read your question eight times and still can't make out what you're trying to ask. Could you rephrase, please? Try to use complete sentences, capitalisation and the occasional punctuation mark. In the meantime, our articles on biodiversity, life and ecosystem might be interesting reading. — QuantumEleven 07:32, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

or the diversity of environment that exists in the world .--Mightright 07:53, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Try Biome Nowimnthing 16:10, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Artist

Who is the known Artist which was killed by the hand of his own father?

Marvin Gaye, for one.--Anchoress 08:54, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'd have thought he meant a visual artist, but Marvin Gaye is probably what's being looked for here. Category:Murdered artists doesn't show up any filicides. - THE GREAT GAVINI {T-C} 12:16, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, we musicians get this all the time. Ask someone if music is an art and they'll say "yes". But ask them in stead to name some arts and they'll probably completely forget about music. Hell, they might even mention 'martial arts'. But music? Ah well, one consolation - the reason is probably that music is much more ubiquitous, more a part of real life. DirkvdM

Numbers & letters written above doors

In German and Austrian towns, I often see numbers and letters written in chalk above the doors of people's houses. I don't have an example of the actual numbers and letters, but does anyone know why they are there and what they mean? --Richardrj 12:07, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Never mind; I found the answer here. --Richardrj 15:20, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

West Virginia - unusual borders

Looking on the map of the state of West Virginia, the shape of the state is very irregular. I understand that many borders follow rivers and other natural boundries - but it appears that whomever decided this states shape went out of there way to produce a very distinctive outline. What were the deciding factors that led to this states most unusual borders?

Thank you

West Virginia might answer your question in it's #History section. Basically, at the Civil War Virginia went Confederate, but the western counties wanted to remain in the Union. Therefore, the division is along county lines. Geogre 12:36, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- And the county lines are generally based on rivers and ridgelines. The mountains in the area follow a generally northeast-southwest trend. --Serie 20:00, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It largely goes back to old colonial charters drawn up when the area west of the Appalachians wasn't well known. Maryland's southern border was set as the Potomac River, which squiggles around. The partition between WV and VA generally ran southwest-to-northeast along the foothills that separated the mountains from the Shenandoah Valley. If the Potomac ran straight east-west, West Virginia's northeastern section would look normal. I've read the far edge of WV's eastern panhandle resulted from a couple of counties east of the foothills voting to join WV while would-be opponents were away with the Confederate armies. The northern panhandle reflects the charter of Pennsylvania, which set that colony's western boundary at 5° west of Philadelphia. VA gave up its claims to all lands west of the Ohio after the Revolutionary War. Because the Ohio runs north-to-south for a while just after crossing the western edge of PA, WV has a northern panhandle. -- Mwalcoff 00:35, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Much of the relevant information on the development of the West Virginia borders is scattered in various articles, or apparently does not yet exist on Wikipedia. Everybody knows about the separation of West Virginia from Virginia because of the Civil War, but how Virginia got its shape before that is more obscure. The origin of the odd northern panhandle of West Virginia is partially explained in the Yohogania County article. Basically Virginia and Pennsylvania disagreed about their western border -- where the Mason-Dixon line should end -- in the Pittsburgh region right through the American Revolution, with the Royal Governor of VA even seizing Fort Pitt (Pittsburgh) and renaming it Fort Dunmore. The southwestern border of West Virginia, which is not so odd looking, results from the separation of Kentucky, then known as "Kentucky County", from Virgina. So, in a nutshell, West Virginia's border results from pieces being cut away from the Old Dominion's once massive area, which once even included all of this. Surprisingly, nowhere on Wikipedia do I see a map of Virginia's borders at its most extensive. --Kevin Myers | (complaint dept.) 23:53, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

most revered?

which place is similar to the southern hemisphere's most familiar and mysterious landforms and was revered and worshipped by people for countless centuries, and nowadays, by law, is protected from exploitation?

Ayers Rock? --Richardrj 13:28, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Please note: the following comment has been repeatedly removed by the original poster. Note that repeatedly reverting the same edit can lead to your being banned from Wikipedia. Thanks for leaving it this time: ":I do wonder whether asking on the reference desk for the answer to quiz questions is really fair to the other competitors. Notinasnaid 13:19, 25 July 2006 (UTC) " Notinasnaid 13:40, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There are other websites much better at answering quiz and puzzle questions. For example, try this site, and click on "quizzes and puzzles". Also, when you do ask quiz questions, please copy them accurately so that they make sense. As written, there are lots of possible answers to this one. The southern hemisphere is a big place, with lots of landforms, and lots of similar landforms.--Shantavira 19:36, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If the quiz is such that it gives you the time to ask then actually doing that is totally fair play, Id say. Then again, does this apply to homework too? Hmmm ... DirkvdM 08:11, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

More prestigious?

This probably belongs in the misc place, but I'm not sure, so: which is more prestigious, the Jefferson Scholarship at the University of Virginia or the Morehead Scholarship at the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill? I just want your opinions.

Sorry, we do facts, not opinions. --LarryMac 14:36, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Oh? You mean "we're supposed to ... " ? DirkvdM 08:12, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Quite possibly the one that gets 18 times more Google hits than the other, IMHO (but of course that could be because of scandal and intrigue. Having never heard of either, neither is prestigious AFAIK).--Shantavira 19:45, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

They're both wonderful. There are two Morehead Scholars. I don't know how many Jefferson Scholars there are. Both universities are first class, and both deliver a good undergraduate and great graduate education. Each is probably "more prestigious" in its university's shadow than the other, but, outside of that, neither is spectacularly well known. If you show up at a job interview in Iowa, the employer will only know that you got a good scholarship. (Yes, I am a Tarheel.) Geogre 02:51, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've heard of the Morehead Scholarship, and I'm not even American. Never heard of the Jefferson Scholarship, however. I'd say that the Morehead is more prestigious. According to the Wikipedia article Morehead Scholarship, it is the oldest merit-based scholarship in the USA. --Mathew5000 09:13, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

MPAA approval numbers

Toward the end of the final credits of most American films, the MPAA logo is displayed along with a number. For example:

The Color of Money (1986): "#28202"
Fight Club (film) (1999): "Approved No. 36857"
Superman Returns (2006): "No. 42582"

Do these numbers correspond with the film rating process? You might think that they would, but if so, why does it not show the ratings themselves in addition to the number? Also, the unrated version of The Girl Next Door still has the MPAA logo in the end credits along with "No. 40269". Since it is the unrated version, you would think that the MPAA would get upset if that logo is supposed to refer to an MPAA rating. Also, what film was No. 1 under this system, or other milestones like No. 10000, No. 40000, etc.? --Mathew5000 12:44, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You can see those numbers on films that were released before the current rating system was rolled out... AnonMoos 17:10, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Based solely on the evidence presented, I'd say they're just serial numbers for the ratings (all 4 examples increase more-or-less linearly with time). That is, Superman Returns is probably the 42582nd film rated by the MPAA. — Lomn | Talk 18:59, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

But if that were the case, why would an unrated movie (The Girl Next Door) have the logo and a number in the credits? Moreover, when a film is submitted to the MPAA to be rated, isn't it supposed to be the final version of the film? It doesn't make sense to me that after the MPAA issues a rating to a film, the filmmakers would then insert into the end credits the serial number of the rating, but not the rating itself. --Mathew5000 09:18, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The version sent to the MPAA is not necessarily the final version. I'd bet it doesn't happen so much nowadays, but studios could send a film, examine the rating, re-cut the film and re-submit it, as often as they liked. Cut out a "hell" here or an exposed bum there and you could get yourself a lower rating. That may also explain the "unrated" version getting a number. Perhaps the film was submitted (gets the number), gets re-edited and re-submitted (gets new number) and goes to theatres. There might not have been an official rating involved, but I'd bet good money that the "unrated" version had indeed been to the rating board. Matt Deres 15:06, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Here is some wild speculation. It may be possible to involve MPAA at an early stage of production. (It's more cost effective not to shoot scenes that wouldn't be releasable at the target rating.) There are some interesting anecdotes about horse trading between the BBFC and the producers of Monty Python and the Holy Grail. Anyway, if you assume this is the case, one problem with films is that they can change title during shooting, and there can be multiple films with the same title. Not a lot else is constant either: directors, producers, stars and studios can change. Titles and ownership can also change in the years to come. So, it may be pretty confusing to come back to MPAA after a hiatus with a film that used to be called something. So, given this, maybe MPAA will give a unique number to an ongoing film case, and this is what is quoted in the pre-release discussions; it would also allow double checking years later when presented with a renamed film and a question about ratings. A film which was unrated may have been so at the end of a lot of fruitless discussions, so it might still have been assigned a number. Notinasnaid 09:29, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Query re Brihadaranyaka Upanishad

How old is this text:

It is not for the sake of the husband, my beloved, that the husband is dear, but for the sake of the Self.

It is not for the sake of the wife, my beloved, that the wife is dear, but for the sake of the Self.

It is not for the sake of the children, my beloved, that the children are dear, but for the sake of the Self.

                  Hinduism.  Brihadaranyaka Upanishad 2.4.4-5

and how should I correctly acknowledge it or credit it if quoting it in a teaching manual? Also - how can I be sure I have found the best translation?

Thank you - I appreciate your help

See Bṛhadāraṇyaka. It is one of the mukhya Upanishads, and among the oldest even of these, this means that the text probably dates to ca. the 8th century BC (the Indian Iron Age, or the time of the early Mahajanapadas; give or take another century to be on the safe side; it is impossible to date these texts with greater accuracy). Your translation is the one by Swami Nikhilananda (1987), ISBN 0911206140. The translation is rather straightforward, and Max Müller (1879) has

'Verily, a husband is not dear, that you may love the husband; but that you may love the Self, therefore a husband is dear. 'Verily, a wife is not dear, that you may love the wife; but that you may love the Self, therefore a wife is dear. 'Verily, sons are not dear, that you may love the sons; but that you may love the Self, therefore sons are dear.

You can find all of this information in five minutes by beginning with the Bṛhadāraṇyaka article and the links listed there, and by using google a little bit.

The original text may be found here: [6]

ná vā́ are pátyuḥ kā́māya pátiḥ priyó bʰavaty, / ātmánas tú kā́māya pátiḥ priyó bʰavati. / ná vā́ are jāyā́yai kā́māya jāyā́ priyā́ bʰavaty, / ātmánas tú kā́māya jāyā́ priyā́ bʰavati. / ná vā́ are putrā́ṇāṃ kā́māya putrā́ḥ priyā́ bʰavanty, ātmánas tú kā́māya putrā́ḥ priyā́ bʰavanti.

dab (ᛏ) 10:16, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

ITAR and Computers

Are new computers, intended to be used by a military contractor abroad, considered an export that is subject to the regulations of ITAR?

It is crosspost day! Everyone join in the celebration! --Kainaw ^(talk) 20:11, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You're not crossed about his post, are you? Maybe even double crossed by his double post? DirkvdM 08:14, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Tons of explosives dropped in bombing during World War II

Does anyone know where I can get a ballpark figure for the amount of explosives, rendered in tons of TNT preferably, dropped by all sides in World War II (including the atomic bombs)? --Fastfission 19:42, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, we have an article Military production during World War II which lists military production broken down by type and country, but it only lists weapons, not payloads. I suppose you could look at the figures for bomber aircraft built, and approximate how much each might have dropped during the war, but it would be highly inaccurate. --198.125.178.207 21:35, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

But from that article I was able to find this article which includes Allied tonnage in strategic bombing against Germany, which is getting me a lot closer... if I could combine that with the Axis tonnage from strategic bombing and the bombing of Japan, that would probably get me within an order of magnitude, which is all I need... --Fastfission 00:06, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

After playing with some numbers, I've come up with about 2 Mt as a very rough and potentially too-high estimate (I only need it to the nearest Mt for my purposes). Does that sound totally improbable? --Fastfission 02:47, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Don't use production numbers - so much was left over at the end of the war. Korea helped use up the supply, I understand. Rmhermen 14:46, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't use production numbers for exactly that reason. This is what I ended up using the numbers for, and on the description page I've tallied up my reasoning for 2 Mt as a probably safe approximation. --Fastfission 17:19, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sagan used that same estimate for "a World War II every second for the length of a lazy afternoon. "[7]EricR 18:34, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Found an estimate of 6 megatons for "total tonnage of weapons of all types exploded by all countries in World War II." Jagger, John (1991). The Nuclear Lion: What Every Citizen Should Know about Nuclear Power and Nuclear War. New York: Plenum Press. pp. p. 212. {{cite book}}: |pages= has extra text (help)EricR 18:57, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"The total explosive power of all bombs dropped in all of World War II, during which 50 million people died, including Hiroshima and Nagasaki, was 3 megatons. The total explosive power of all bombs ever used in the history of the world in wars is 10 megatons."Ehrlich, Robert (1987). Perspectives on Nuclear War and Peace Education. New York: Greenwood Press. pp. p. 158. {{cite book}}: |pages= has extra text (help)EricR 19:01, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Six sounds unreasonably high without seeing the figures used to come up with it (I feel like 2-3 is pretty safe but even that might be high). In any case, many thanks for looking those sorts of things up for me! I know that the anti-nuke literature often has statements of this sort, often though they don't cite how they come up with them. But seeing at least two other sources which put it in the same ballpark makes me feel somewhat comfortable, since I know at least where my figures come from. --Fastfission 01:13, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Muslim

Can someone tell me if Iran is the only Muslim country with the majority population of Shi'ite Muslim?

They are also a majority in Azerbaijan, Iraq and Bahrain, and the largest group (but not a majority) in Lebanon. See Shi'a population. David Sneek 20:34, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Girlfriend becoming a lesbian?

My girlfriend of five years recently left me because she has fallen in love with a woman. It is a confusing situation on many levels, but one particular aspect of it has be befuddled: Why is being left for a woman less emotionally distressing than if she had left me for a man? It still really sucks, but if she had fallen in love with another man I would not consider taking her back because it would burn a permanent scar into any relationship that we would attempt to have. However, I do not feel like any irreversible damage has been done and, furthermore, I could easily imagine myself taking her back once she is finished with her little experiment.

Toko loko 20:35, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Weird situation. Well, you are a man but you haven't been "defeated" by another man. If your girlfriend had left you for another man you would wonder if he was somehow better than you. In this case your girlfriend left you for another woman and a woman is not a rival for your manhood. My advice is to get another girlfriend asap. Flamarande 20:44, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Or a Hummer. --LarryMac 20:52, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'd guess because it abrogates you of responsibility for the breakup: it's none of the qualities of your personality or identity or how you treated them or how you got along together or what your long-term prospects are that led to it, it's something that you had no control over. It's not you, it's biology! Ziggurat 20:59, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In American pop culture, the opposite tends to be true: a woman leaving a man in favour of another woman is seen as more emotionally distressing (to the man), or at least as reflecting worse on the man, in the sense of demonstrating his haplessness. Two examples are Ross Geller in season one of Friends, and Woody Allen in one of his movies with Meryl Streep, probably Manhattan. --Mathew5000 21:02, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

My original research: If you take back your lover after infidelity regardless of who your partner chose, then it (he/she) thinks that you are a puppet without any resolution and will. You will lose your dignity and it will think that you can be manipulated not only in this instance but throughtout the future of your relationship. Unless you have kids, I recommend that you act judiciously.

I am not going to say that you can find many attractive partners in the world because there are many attractive singles in your city, the heck with the world.--21:49, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Thank you all for your responses. This is the sort of question that would be awkward to ask my local librarian and it is nice being able to get reasonable answers. In response to the infidelity claim, she emphasized that she would not be unfaithful to me in any way, which is why she broke up with me rather than cheat on me. She also refuses to be unfaithful to her new lover, which is why I currently have blue balls.

I also find it interesting that my brain could come up with the right emotions, while logically I had no understanding for why they were there.

Toko loko 22:12, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Can I add my own personal perspective on this. When I was married I was never physically unfaithful to my wife, but I did fall in love - with a man. After a period of deep anguish, I decided to tell her about it. Initially she took it well, because she knew I never had any intention of doing anything physical with him, and we both wanted our marriage to overcome the issue. He was straight anyway, so nothing would ever have come of it. (Had he been gay, and available, maybe I would have left her for him - but we'll never know.) Despite the guy's total unavailability, my feelings for him only intensified over the next year, yet I still loved my wife very much. We talked endlessly about the whole thing, but eventually she felt unable to deal with it, and what with other issues, the marriage slowly disintegrated. She said that she could have dealt with me falling in love with another woman, or even having a short-term affair with another woman, but ongoing and deepening feelings for another man was something she felt unequipped for. She even had me see a psychiatrist to see if I could remove my capacity to have sexual or amorous feelings for men. I knew this was never going to work, but I went along for her sake. As I said to her, even if that therapy had worked, I would still have been left with the capacity to be attracted to women, so there was still no guarantee she would always remain the only one for me. I can't really talk about her feelings, only what she told me about them.

In hindsight, what would I have done differently? Well, that means knowing a lot more about my life before I met her. In hindsight, I would never have married her in the first place, given that I had previously had a sexual history with other men. At least I would have told her more about my past, and let her make the decision. But we don't always make rational decisions when we're in love, do we. I thought I had put my past behind me - only it came back to bite me. It was very tough going there for a while, but now I have a freedom I had never imagined possible before. Freedom to be who I really am. This may not be true of everybody, but I believe that in general where an ostensibly straight adult becomes strongly attracted to somebody of the same sex, the roots of that attraction go back a long way, and there was always a gay part of their nature whether they were consciously aware of it or not. The social and biological imperatives being what they are, the lines do tend to get very murky, and heartache is often the result when people finally decide to live in accordance with their true nature. One day, maybe, it won't have to be that way. JackofOz 01:02, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Advice questions like this should really go to the expert: Dan Savage Nowimnthing 13:12, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

JackofOz, your honesty, forwardness and thoroughness are very much appreciated. I have heard numerous stories of women "experimenting," and this sort of behaviour seems to be far less prevalent with men. With men, sexuality seems to be rigidly defined, whereas with women there is an amount of leeway where sexuality is a gray, fuzzy line. Maybe it is more of a societal issue, where a man is a "faggot" as soon as he thinks about another man, yet a woman can get by as being simply confused. A single homosexual act can brand a man as a homosexual for his entire life. I feel that this is not a permanent decision in her life, she just happens to have fallen in love with a woman. Kind of like Susan from Seinfeld. Toko loko 16:59, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, Toko loko. Yes, we do live in a society with shocking double standards. A lot of straight men are proud to admit they get off on watching lesbian porn, but they would rather cut off their right arm than watch male-male porn. Also, when two women walk hand in hand in public, nobody even raises an eyebrow - but if two guys did this in a non-gay area, they had better watch out.

I was involved in a workplace discussion recently about 2 guys who regularly have a pash outside our office in the morning. One works in the building, the other one works elsewhere, and this is their way of saying goodbye for the day. I said "There's nothing wrong with that", to be told vociferously "Nobody wants to see that sort of thing" (how they happen to know what everyone wants is beyond me, but that's another question). I countered with "What if it was a straight couple?". Then they changed their tune. Then, it became "It's not about them being gay. We don't have a problem with people being gay these days. But nobody wants to see any couple having a pash session in public. It's yuck". I said "What's yuck about it? Presumably you do this with your own partners/spouses, and you happily watch movies and TV where this activity is displayed all the time". Their arguments continued on, still on the lines of "Nobody wants to see this". I said "I haven't heard a single comment in recent days about the war in Lebanon, the ongoing atrocities in Darfur (which the media has also forgotten), or world poverty. You seem happy to just accept those things with never a murmur, but you have a huge issue with 2 people expressing love to each other. Where are your priorities? No wonder this place is called Victoria". The discussion then disintegrated. The point remains that if the couple had been a man and a woman, the discussion would never have even taken place, but they were gay so that's apparently something worthy of gossiping about and putting the people involved down. Dear me. JackofOz 21:34, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If you were American, you would be even more frustrated by the debates on the Senate floor about gay marriage going on during these times of international crisis. I think they're over it for now, but they wasted a good week talking about shit that is completely trivial relative to the other problems in the world. You can trace the reasons for that back to politics; they are trying to rally their electorate for the November elections and guess what the electorate cares about?

Preserving the already questionable sancity of marriage from those dang ol' homosexuals. The funny bit is that anyone who thinks marriage is sacred among heterosexuals obviously hasn't looked at divorce statistics.

Anyway, I think this qualifies as a derail and does not belong on the reference desk, but thank you for the help and I wish you all the best.

Toko loko 13:04, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

JackofOz: You know, that's not one hundred percent true. In my high school, there are constantly people necking in the halls between classes. I've never had a problem with it, but there are a lot of people who do, and who use almost exactly those words(ie yuck, nobody wants to see that, etc). Homosexuality doesn't even enter into it, since most couples in our school seem to be straight. They're called Public Displays of Affection, and there are actually rules in the Student Handbook against them, though they're rarely much enforced. Black Carrot 05:41, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You're not threatened by a woman, because obviously women aren't equal, right? You may not realize it, but you're actually being sexist. pckeffer

Republic of Macedonia

From what year to what year was Macedonia part of Yugoslavia?--Patchouli 21:31, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

For 46 years; 1946-1992.--Patchouli 02:39, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This must be the most transparent case of sockpuppeteering I've ever seen. :) DirkvdM 08:32, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Was it?--Dweller 16:23, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe. --Dweller 16:23, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

After posting the question, I came back several times and saw no answer. Suddenly, it occurred to me to look it up in a dictionary; thence I found the answer.

It was a testament of a period of inactivity by the volunteers.--Patchouli 21:48, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No skiing in Africa?

Is it true that once all the snow is gone from Mount Kilimanjaro , Africa will be the first continent that cannot be skied? Ohanian 22:47, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You don't necessarily need snow to ski. Also, artificial snow could be used Bwithh 23:59, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

They could build something like Ski Dubai. Wizrdwarts (T|C|E) 01:55, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That's not true. There are many other mountains in Africa with snowfall (see, for example, the High Atlas range). — Lomn | Talk 14:06, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Can the Atlas range be skied? JackofOz 00:13, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't believe it's possible to ski on Kilimanjaro. Battle Ape 04:29, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There's a ski resort in Morocco

Looking for a painting

looking for a famous painting:

it's got the big, yellow moon at the top, and a little shack on a small hill in the lower left corner. The sky is black with many stars. Wondering if anyone can think of the name for this, or send me a link. Thanks!

There is The Starry Night by Van Gogh - the sky isn't exactly black, but there is a big yellow moon and lots of stars, and if you look closely, there is in fact a little shack in the lower left corner. Just an idea. --Bmk 04:59, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that's what I was thinking of. Thanks very much!

July 26

German movie tax shelters

Rescue Dawn is a movie starring Christian Bale and directed by Werner Herzog that is listed as "Completed" by IMDb. Nevertheless, despite the famous (if eccentric) director and A-list lead actor, the movie's crew hasn't been paid for the scenes filmed and there's no release date in site. A bit of a mystery. This post on IMDb claims that the reason for the financial troubles lies in the fact that the movie is really just a front for a big tax break through a loophole in German tax law, and it will only be released in such a way for it not to turn a profit. The company producing the movie is a mystery company called Top Gun Productions, whose only other production is a 1959-61 TV show.

My question is: could a movie with a big star and a prestigious director really just be a way to get a tax break? Are Uwe Boll's movies supposed to be bad, so they won't turn a profit, enabling investors to take advantage of a tax break? Could there be any truth to all this? zafiroblue05 | Talk 02:50, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know, but I'd say that post on IMDb is wrong. Many countries have some form of film tax credit, to encourage investment in the country's film industry. In theory this sort of tax credit program should be designed so that the investor does not take much of a net loss (or perhaps not any loss) if the film flops. However, the tax credit program would have to be exceptionally poorly designed if it leaves the investors better off with a film that flops rather than a film that turns a profit. (That would mean there is an implicit marginal tax rate greater than 100%.) I should say that I have no knowledge at all of this film, or of the German film tax credit program. Logically, however, there is a lot of reason to be skeptical of that post on IMDb. --Mathew5000 09:36, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Based on my rudimentary understanding of German movie tax shelters, the tax break seems to be that you get an immediate deduction when you make the movie, rather than having to wait to deduct it with the income later. So it seems that you could film a movie and never release it, getting the deduction, but it seems a lot of work for a tax shelter. And you don't need to make a German movie (use German staff) to get this credit, so you wouldn't need to use Herzog or Boll or whomever. I have to assume that Uwe Boll's movies are supposed to be that bad, because it's not like he was a great film maker and then suddenly started turning out junk; if you hire him, you'll get a crappy video-game adaptation. So therefore, whoever's hiring him has to know what they're getting. --ByeByeBaby 23:40, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

African Music

I've listened to a bunch of it, and have great stuff from Senegal, Mali, Nigeria, and South Africa mostly. Anybody want to recommend some good artists from other african countries that i might not have heard of? It's all great, at least what i've heard, and I'd like to find more to listen to.

Waaaay too broad an area, both geographically and musically. For one, do you mean traditional music or with 'western' instruments? DirkvdM 08:35, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

traditional. it's a broad-scoped question bc i have no specific guidelines. for example, i like fela and femi kuti, amadou and mariam, habib koitie, lobi traore, ali farke toure, king suni ade, henri dikongue..., but i think they're limited to a couple countries, and because i like what i've heard of that continent's music (although i know that's similar to grouping all "latino" music together) I was just looking for more. anything traditional, although if you know anything really good with western instruments (like koitie uses a western guitar, right?) im happy with that too. thanks

Central African music is very interesting, I think. Pygmy songs - look for the recordings made by the Israeli musicologist Simha Arom of the Aka pygmies - and music for sanza. Also, Venancio Mbande (from Mozambique) rocks. David Sneek 10:07, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Fela Kuti. Philc _T^E_C^I 14:27, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This guy makes beautiful music which i think is from the traditions of Uganda. --198.125.178.207 17:01, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

thanks, everybody. Sashafklein 18:51, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I like Rachid Taha. Battle Ape 04:27, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, and of course Northern Africa is also part of Africa. You might look into Raï. I wouldn't know who are good performers, though. DirkvdM 07:47, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

For Africa in general, you could check out a number of the artists on the Real World label - Ayub Ogada (from Kenya) is excellent - if you've seen the film The Constant Gardener you've heard his music in it - Geoffrey Oryema (Uganda, IIRC), S.E. Rogie (Sierra Leone)... lots of good possibilities. As far as West African music, you might like some Highlife music - it was the equivalent of "Merseybeat" in West Africa during the 1960s and is still an influence - a mix of traditional and western styles that has a vague familial resemblance to reggae. Grutness...wha? 08:01, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Reading Quickly

Im damn near sure that I used to be able to read faster than I do now when I was a couple years younger (Im 17 now), and it's really getting to me. I think reading quickly (while still retaining info) is one of the more important skills out there. Does anybody know if speedreading courses aren't a bad idea (they seem backwards to me - what I've heard is you learn what to skip, which misses the whole point both of reading for enjoyment and for study.) If speedreading courses are bad, does anybody know any other ways to increase reading speed without hurting comprehension? (Other than just reading more.) Thanks.

Speed-reading is a scam. Read Spin (physics) and Trust law. Take a dozen speed-reading courses and then see how your understanding and retention improves.

The lesson is that the more prior knowledge you have about a subject the faster you can read.--Patchouli 06:50, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The speed reading courses I know don't aim to improve your understanding, just increase the speed with which you can gain the same understanding you can when reading slowly. - Mgm|^(talk) 13:28, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, but my dad, for instance, can sit down for two hours and read three full size books and have a conversation about them years later. It's fairly remarkable. I was wondering if there's anything one can do (such as, for a time, forcing oneself to read more quickly - which usually works with me until i start thinking about reading quickly as opposed to what im reading) to simply increase the rate at which one mentally translates the characters into thoughts. I dont mean silly tricks like reading the first and last sentence of paragraphs or ridiculous crap like that. Is there any way to simply build up one's reading chops in a way (very) loosely analgous to lifting weights for muscle strength, or am i just dreaming?

I used to be a very slow reader because I explicitly read every word, something most people don't (which is why most people miss spelling errors more often than I do). It's normal to conclude what a text says without having actually read all the words. It's something you do automatically. But I didn't, so I had to learn that. I now often skim through a text searching for key words, mainly to decide if it is worth a more detailed read. But I also get an idea of what the text says without a more detailed reading. It's just that I might be guessing wrong. You'll have to balance speed and accuracy. I don't see how you can have both. DirkvdM 08:42, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's also worth noting that as you get older, you will generally start to read things that are more complex in nature, and that use more jargon and uncommon words. This can slow down your reading speed. BenC7 11:43, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Simply put, reading speeds are irrelevant past adulthood. In fact, quick reading can often indicate, as DirkvdM says, skipping things, which is a bad idea. However, for elementary and secondary education, reading speed can indicate fluency with written language. At age 17, your reading speed may slow as you are exposed to more complex texts, but it is getting nearer and nearer to an unimportant statistic. Where it will matter is in getting your work done in a timely fashion, and you will develop (by trial and error, if not effort) strategies for reading quickly things you do not wish to committ to long term memory and reading slowly things that require a great deal of thinking. I used to worry about my reading speed of 190 wpm when I was in high school, because my friends were all at 270 and beyond. Of course, I was reading the poetry of TS Eliot and Kant's Critique of Pure Reason, and they were reading excerpts of world greats in their textbooks. Geogre 14:23, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's not neccessarily a bad thing if you don't read as fast as you possibly can either. I used to race through Robert Jordan novels, reading 500+ page books in about a couple of hours. I would get the characters and the basic plot that way. Later on, I learned how to savor language for its own sake, and now I read a lot more slowly. --Tachikom a 14:47, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned our article Speed reading. JackofOz 20:59, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Which says "As a habitual reading rate, it is inappropriate for sufficiently comprehending newspaper articles, textbooks, and novels (Allyn & Bacon, 1987)." However, speedreading is probably most practical (and most often done) when reading a newspaper, to get an idea of what sort of thing is going on in the world. First, you skim the headlines, then maybe the intro and then only when you're interrested the article. And even then very fast at first, trying to pick out the essence. At least that's what I do. On the one hand you need to know something about what is going on in the world, on the other hand it's impracitcal to read it all. So you need to compromise. DirkvdM 11:09, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Music ID

This is a beautiful piece of music, but alas, I know not its composer or its name. If anyone could correctly identify the song's name and its composer, I would be greatly obliged. Thanks--71.117.44.220 06:25, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Whoops! Forgot to mention you can find the file here. --71.117.44.220 06:28, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I cant believe you did this to me. I was wondering what the song was yesterday and then forgot about it. Now you've brought it back up again and it'll bug me for weeks if i dont find the answer. Dammit Sashafklein 18:52, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm. I might have it. Debussy's Claire de Lune? I'll check. That'd make my day if i guessed it. Sashafklein 18:52, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Shoot. I think I'm wrong. Get back to you in a bit. Sashafklein 18:52, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I don't think it's Claire de Lune. Nice try though. Again, any help is greatly appreciated. --71.117.44.220 06:53, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Im feeling Debussy or CHopin. Sashafklein 18:52, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Honestly. This same damn song was bugging the hell out of me yesterday Sashafklein 18:52, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I give up for now. I'll hopefully have the answer sometime tomorrow. Sashafklein 18:52, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Have you tried any music information retrieval systems?--Shantavira 07:37, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

HA! Got it. Debussy's Arabesque. Booyah. Sashafklein 18:52, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Haha! Alright! Thank you very much. I finally have the name. Thanks again. --71.117.36.245 17:04, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Is that Arabesque No 1, or Arabesque No 2? JackofOz 20:57, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I believe it is Arabesque No 1. Unfortunately, the file is now gone, due to copyright issues. --71.117.36.245 21:19, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. It's 1. Sashafklein 23:10, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

relationships

Is it necessary to understand someone's past when entering a new relationship.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.226.41.39 (talk • contribs)

That would seem to be a very good idea. If they're reluctant to tell you their past, it suggests they're hiding something from you. Also, an exchange of life stories is a very good way to get to know each other.--Shantavira 11:25, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You have the right to keep some things secret. Noone (not even your wife) can force you to reveal something embarrasing about your past. A bit of privacy doesn't hurt noone. Flamarande 16:16, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The line between privacy and secretiveness is a fine one, though. In general it is good form to bring up anything which would potentially affect the other person's health very early on, and anything that they would definitely want to know about as things become more serious. If something important becomes revealed later on one way or another, it would be very natural for the other person in the relationship to think of it as a betrayal of their trust. Relationships are built on trust; if you don't have that, you don't have much of anything.

To rather extreme examples of this in film are The Barefoot Contessa (an awful film, though), and A History of Violence. --Fastfission 17:16, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Personally, I think everyone should have to list references of past boyfriends/girlfriends when entering a new relationship. I've gotten so many "you were a great boyfriend, but I decided I wanted to date someone handsome" comments.... Geogre 11:58, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Rowlatt Bills

Who is the Rowlatt after whom these acts were named. I don't see any reference to someone of that name in the information on the acts.

Justice Rowlatt, who was apparently chairman of the committee appointed for curbing seditious movements in India. [8] - THE GREAT GAVINI {T-C} 16:02, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Acts were drafted by Sir Sidney Rowlatt.--Shantavira 16:11, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You sure? I've found yet another source which says Justice Rowlatt.[9] - THE GREAT GAVINI {T-C} 16:31, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There's no contradiction. Justice is presumably an earlier title. My source is Chambers Dictionary of World History. Unfortunately it doesn't tell us anything more about Sir Sid.--Shantavira 17:54, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Judges in the UK and the Commonwealth have traditionally been called, eg. "Mr Justice Smith". In the case of Rowlatt, it would have been "Mr Justice Sir Sidney Rowlatt" (as odd as that may sound; and assuming he had his knighthood while he was a judge). These days, titles differ from place to place, but "Justice Rowlatt" would not be an unusual way of referring to him. JackofOz 00:11, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Or maybe he was a judge first, then was knighted. - THE GREAT GAVINI {T-C} 06:58, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In that case, he would have been "Mr Justice Rowlatt" while a judge, then "Mr Sidney Rowlatt" (or possibly "The Hon Sidney Rowlatt") after he retired and "Sir Sidney Rowlatt" (or "The Hon Sir Sidney Rowlatt") after he was knighted. JackofOz 10:18, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

contrafactum (musical term)

I learned a new word, contrafactum, which means (per Grove's dictionary of music and musicians), "in vocal music, the substitution of one text for another without substantial change to the music."

Question: the Grove's article is several pages long and is entirely about music pre-18th century. It doesn't come right out and say so, but I get the impression that the term is reserved for early music. Is that correct? Could any self-respecting musicologist say that "The Star Spangled Banner" is a contrafactum setting of "To Anacreon in Heaven"? Would The Saga Begins be a contrafactum setting of American Pie (in addition to being a parody)? There are many examples in filk music of completely rewriting the words to a song, in ways that are not parody, so there's a discussion in a filk newsgroup over whether the term applies. I started writing a stub article contrafactum but then decided that the modern examples I thought of were probably bogus, so they're commented out in the html (use "edit article" to see). Phr (talk) 14:59, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What about My Sweet Lord by George Harrison Man, or Why Don't You Get a Job by The Offspring (which are similar to He's So Fine by the Chiffons and Ob La Di Ob La Da by the Beatles, but are not parodies and are probably only accidentally similar). Adam Bishop 15:13, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

My Sweet Lord and the other song had an accidental similarity in one or two bars, as I remember. The court case was ridiculous. Contrafactum as I understand it means two songs use entirely or almost entirely the same tune. Phr (talk) 18:34, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"God Save the Queen" and "America" would be a good example. - Nunh-huh 23:45, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes that's my question, whether that would be a good example, since those songs are maybe too new. Phr (talk) 08:39, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Oscar winners

There are four Oscar winners who also had number one recordings. Could you tell me who they are please? Thanks!— Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.181.155.128 (talk • contribs)

Number one recordings in which country? This might help us to tie them down. Or do you mean any country?--Shantavira 16:15, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Bing Crosby won the Oscar for Best Actor in 1944, and had a No. 1 Billboard album in 1957. That's one of four.- THE GREAT GAVINI {T-C} 16:21, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Cher had no.1 hits in the USA, Canada, and UK, and won the Best Actress Oscar in 1987. That's two.--Shantavira 17:58, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Barbra Streisand, Best Actress 1968, and a no.1 album in the US in 1985. Or does it have to be singles?--Shantavira 18:08, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Frank Sinatra Best Supporting Actor 1953, and three Billboard no.1s.--Shantavira 18:15, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Lee Marvin for Cat Ballou and Wand'rin' Star. Um... that makes five... Grutness...wha? 08:23, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Richard Harris for MacArthur Park had a #1, and I'm pretty sure he won an Oscar. Geogre 11:55, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No, he was nominated twice but never won. JackofOz 20:54, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Lee Marvin never reached number one as far as I can tell, at least not in the United States. See List of number-one hits (United States). --Mathew5000 03:21, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

stone age

I have visited your subject which is explaining about Stone Age. However i can't understand the exact period which this development taken place. would u help me by informing the exact period or time span of Stone Age(from when to when).

Do you have a particular region in mind? Terms like stone/bronze/iron age refer to different times in different parts of the world, reflecting the level of local technology. Digfarenough 16:17, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

after edit conflict - :By "visited", you mean "glanced at"? In the article stone age you would have read: "While it is possible to speak of a general 'stone age' period for the whole of humanity, some groups never developed metal-smelting technology, so remained in a 'stone age' until they encountered technologically developed cultures. However, in general, it is believed that this period began somewhere around 3 million years ago, starting with the first hominid tool-making in Africa." and then "The transition out of the Stone Age occurred between 6000 BC and 2500 BC for much of humanity living in North Africa, Asia and Europe." --Kainaw ^(talk) 16:19, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

True for later developments, but at least the begining of the stone age is fairly uniform as every human ancestor was in Africa. The page Stone Age gives a date of about 3 million years ago corresponding to the earliest examples of stone tools associated with either Homo habilis or with an earlier Australopithecine. The end of the stone age would vary according to region as to when metals started to be used. Generally the first groups to use metal were doing so around 6,000 years ago according to Copper Age and Bronze Age. Of course you can have isolated groups who did not start to use metals until much much later and could be considered still in the stone age almost up to the present.Nowimnthing 16:56, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Just look at those time frames. Stone tools came about 3 million years ago and metal tools a few thousand years ago. That's a ratio of about 1000:1. So, in archaeological terms, the stone age ended pretty much just now. In that light the condescending remark about those dumbfucks who hadn't invented metal working yet is a bit short-sighted. I'll add a more extensive remark about that to Talk:Stone_Age. DirkvdM 08:08, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Late night Guest who does not sleep

Years ago, there was a guest on either Letterman or the Tonight Show (hey it may even have been Conan O’Brien) who claimed to have remained awake for decades. He stated that he hit his head as a young child and remained awake ever since. When asked what was the longest recorded period of sleep deprivation - he replied "WWII. I bet my entire platoon a months pay if they ever caught me sleeping - which they never did" (or words to that effect). Other items of the interview included "that with my ample spare time - I paint landscapes on pinheads" (which they displayed a few). Searching for this mans name is the difficulty. Does anyone know where a definitive list of guest names is available for these shows - or more directly his actual name? (It definitely is not Peter Tripp or Randy Gardner).

Rip van Winkle? --Dweller 16:26, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Rip van Winkle is the opposite of what you want — he's a guy who slept too long, not a person who doesn't sleep. Anyway, it sounds pretty suspicious to me. Most humans start to suffer very serious health problems if they do not sleep for much more than a week, much less years or "decades" (see Sleep deprivation). I would want to see something certified by a scientist, not just some old guy telling me stories about how he didn't sleep for all of World War II. --Fastfission 17:10, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I figured that after sleeping for 20 years, old Rip could probably have gone 4 or 5 without kipping. --Dweller 09:37, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I remember this exact show. It was Letterman, probably his old NBC show. I'm sorry, I don't remember his name. --Cam 19:26, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't watch Letterman, on principle, but I have read of such phenomena in places like Ripley's Believe It or Not or The People's Almanac. I don't know whether the stories are authenticated, and I don't remember the details. JackofOz 20:54, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Forget "much more than a week" - just a couple days with zero sleep is enough to turn most people into wrecks. The current verified record for time without sleep is 11 days: see Randy Gardner. (BTW, that 11 days number should come with a disclaimer: Don't trying this at home. It's dangerous.) I too have heard of people claiming of simply being unable to sleep, like the guy on Letterman, but take it with a grain of salt; I'd say it's about as likely to be true as Bigfoot is to exist. In short, there may be some bizarre physiological/psychological condition that enables people to recharge their batteries without the sleep the everyone else needs to do the same, but there's no reputable scientific evidence. zafiroblue05 | Talk 21:44, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Although the long-term health effects of sleep deprevation are not known, I am sure the guy was just making it up. I probably would have heard or read of him regarding sleep research. — The Mac Davis] ญƛ. 21:13, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Randy Gardner talk page links to [10]. William DeMent's very good book The Promise of Sleep discusses Randy Gardner at length and says people who claim to stay up for years actually take very short sleep intervals without realizing it. Phr (talk) 10:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Oscars and #1s Quiz Question

There are four Oscar winners who went on to have number one records. Could you tell me who they are and what their awards were for? Thank you! Linda

See Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#Oscar_winners. - THE GREAT GAVINI {T-C} 16:33, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

How the Hell

On Congresspedia, the site for Barack Obama states that: "Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. is the junior Senator from Illinois. He is the only African-American currently serving in the U.S. Senate, the fifth in U.S. history and the third since Reconstruction." Wouldnt that mean that there were two black senators before reconstruction? How? Who? What states? Sashafklein 18:03, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hiram Rhodes Revels and Blanche K. Bruce, both from Mississippi, served in the Senate in the 1870s (during Reconstruction). David Sneek 18:14, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Oh. That makes sense. I thought there were black senators BEFORE reconstruction, which would have been bizarre. Sashafklein 18:19, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No. "Since Reconstruction" means "Since the end of Reconstruction". --ColourBurst 21:35, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

names of Department for Culture

What´s the name for the Department for Culture in other countries? I mean, that´s the name for the UK, but in Spanic countries? Thanks

Depends on the country, I suppose. In Spain, it's the Ministerio de Cultura. David Sneek 18:43, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In Canada, Department of Canadian Heritage. In the USA, there is no cabinet-level department of culture, although the Department of State has a "Bureau of Educational and Cultural Affairs". --Mathew5000 20:47, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Mexico has the Consejo Nacional para la Cultura y las Artes (CONACULTA). "Consejo" means "council," not "department" or "ministry," but the head of the council is part of the president's cabinet. -- Mwalcoff 23:15, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In the Netherlands, it's the Ministry for Education, Culture and Sciences (Ministerie van Onderwijs, Cultuur en Wetenschappen [11]). DirkvdM 08:30, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

New Zealand has the Ministry of Arts, Culture and Heritage - the current minister is Prime Minister Helen Clark. Not that we're Hispanic, but neither is Canada. The US... it's debatable :). And it's been a loooong time since you could describe the Netherlands that way! Grutness...wha? 08:33, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In Norway, it's the the Ministry of Culture and Church Affairs (Kultur og kirkedepartementet). --vibo56^talk 13:44, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Iceland has the "Ministry of Education, Science and Culture", or "Menntamalaraduneytid" - http://www.menntamalaraduneyti.is/ Mnemeson 12:13, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Black Americans

66.213.33.2 20:16, 26 July 2006 (UTC)Why is Senator Barack Obama always described as African-American? He is the child of one black parent and one white parent. Of course he is part black, but he is just as much white. The same is true of the actress Halle Berry. Please understand, I am not being critical, for both of these people are greatly talented and easy to look at. Is this classification a legacy of America's racial past - that is, the "one drop rule" of black ancestry? I just thought of two more examples: Cleveland mayor Frank Jackson and pro football star Franco Harris. Even Tiger Woods is often called African-American, even though he is only 25% black, and predominantly Asian. Think how silly that last sentence sounds! He is not part-this and part-that; he is an American and a human being, deserving of the same respect as every other human being. Why do we still insist on assigning people to a category? What if a politician or movie star had one black grandparent (I can't think of any examples)- would he or she be called by the media an African-American? 66.213.33.2 20:16, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think you have it right when you cite history. The only counter-example I can think of is Carol Channing, who had a black father but whose race is never referred to in the media. So self-identification also plays some role. - Nunh-huh 20:22, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your answer. According to the Wikipedia entry on Carol Channing, her father was half white and half black. So she's one example: one-fourth black. That fact doesn't change my opinion of her; I still remember her fondly from 40 years ago.

Much of it is historical, yes, the one drop rule is factored heavily into this. Even so, Hines Ward, for example, considers his Korean heritage to be very important to him. Often self-identification and societal identification differ, and these things affect things like employment (often employers would reject people if names didn't "sound" white) and roles (which are heavily pigeonholed, except for whites who can play anything). Society is still heavily looks-based. --ColourBurst 21:34, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

My experience is that people identify with minorities. There's no identity in being "white". There's no white pride march, no white social hall, no white history month... which is what you get when you are united in a minority. Of course, there are people like Tiger Woods who the media keep calling African American and he keeps saying he is multi-cultural, not African American. --Kainaw ^(talk) 22:32, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree with this. While people believe there's no "identity" being "white" (there actually is, according to whiteness studies), that's actually an advantage because there's no stereotyping or attributions associated with the default. Other than white pride marches (which tend to get hijacked by White Nationalists), we already look at white accomplishments and white history a large percentage of the time - hence why we don't need a white history month. In addition, people don't identify with being a minority, hence the reason why a lot of the all-minority cast shows (on TV) tend to do less successful than the all-white shows. In addition, minorities are not united - whether in their own groups or as a whole. Koreans and blacks have had lots of historical tension, especially in New York and LA, and (as an example) Chris Rock thinks differently about blacks than someone like Bill Cosby or Morgan Freeman does. "United" could just come from the fact that people think they're the same colour because they're the same race (how's that for irony?) --ColourBurst 16:45, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Being African-American or black doesn't mean that you're not something else, too. I don't know if Tiger Woods would say, "I'm not African-American." Rather, he might say, "I am African-American, and Asian, and American Indian, and European-American." -- Mwalcoff 23:13, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Or maybe just, "I'm Cablinasian." zafiroblue05 | Talk 23:23, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Why are some black guys white, and some black? Its the culture you follow. Black Americans that follow a hip-hop lifestyle are black, black Americans that have a certain combination of darkness, wealth, occupation, attire, friends, etc.. are often described as "whiter." For instance Tiger Woods, and Colin Powel. It is terrible that I've seen some gifted or just smart black kids be accused of "being white" by being high achievers. — The Mac Davis] ญƛ. 21:08, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pol Pot Finds a Power Vacuum

“

In 1970, Norodom Sihanouk abdicates kingship and leaves Cambodia. Military general Lon Nol become an impotent head of state for 5 years. Next, Pol Pot seizes power amidst a decentralized government and babel.

”

Patchouli

Did I get this right?--Patchouli 22:06, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Read the article Cambodian coup of 1970. Sihanouk did not exactly voluntarily relinquish power; there was a military coup while he was abroad for medical treatment of his cancer. Phnom Penh surrendered after a civil war (a communist insurgency led by Pol Pot and Ieng Sary) that lasted for years, culminating in a months long heavy offensive; see History of Cambodia. It's not like Pol Pot "found" an existing power vacuum. To be sure, about two weeks before Phnom Penh fell Lon Nol escaped the country, but if he had staid it wouldn't have made much of a difference. I wouldn't know why you'd call the government "decentralized" and what you mean here by "babel". --Lambiam ^Talk 23:05, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Therefore, without the North Vietnamese Army's direct help, Ieng Sary and Pol Pot would probably not have been able to force Lon Nol's government to surrender.--Patchouli 01:12, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure whether you are looking for a critique of history or English. If it is the latter, "impotent" is probably not what you wanted, and "become" should be "becomes" if you are writing in the present tense. "kingship" may be a tautology. Notinasnaid 07:37, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Nah, Pol Pot moved to Amsterdam and started a shop named Pol's Pots. DirkvdM 08:34, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

World at peace

Has there ever been a time in recent history when the world has effectively been at peace? By which I mean a period in time whereby no single country is at war with another.

I have read through some of the articles on war, specifically the list of wars, and it suggests that 1906-1910 may have been a rare moment of global peace, ironically leading to the first of the world wars. Can someone confirm this to be the case?

Regards,

Gallaghp 22:51, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There have been days when nobody was injured as a result of war, but there has not been a time in recorded history where nobody anywhere in the world did not have an ongoing declaration of war. Keep in mind that some are non-combat wars, such as the war between North and South Korea that is still declared even though there is no combat. The best way I've heard it explained is that war is the natural state of governments. Peace is the uneasy period between wars. Now that terrorism can be included in war, you don't even need the idiocy of governments to get involved. --Kainaw ^(talk) 23:04, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I forgot to mention that the Philippine-American War spanned the 1906-1910 years that you mentioned. Sorry. --Kainaw ^(talk) 23:06, 26 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I wonder if the long period of peace was actually the cause of WWI being so severe. Sort of like when a geological fault line doesn't release tension through an earthquake for some time, the next earthequake that does happen will be more severe. If that is true, then the next European war should be truly devastating. We've got the EU, but a similar attempt was made during the interbellum, an even longer period of peace, and what happened after that? This is one of those times I desperately hope I'm wrong. DirkvdM 08:41, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

For reassurance, I think the machine gun plus the slow development of countering tactics meets Occam's Razor pretty well on this one. — Lomn | Talk 12:54, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't have any sources to back it up, but I remember about a decade ago when studying WW1 at school, my teacher of the time noted that "since 'the war to end all wars', there have been a total of six minutes when no countries were fighting any others". You might also want to bear in mind Hobbes' definition that war is not merely the time when nations are fighting, but that a state of war exists when there exists the willingless to fight, as the risk of fighting creates the same conditions (e.g.fearing to build lest your infrastructure be destroyed, making the building work pointless) as if the fighting were actually ongoing at the time. Mnemeson 12:09, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"War is the health of the state." pckeffer

Leonardo da Vinci

Leonardo da Vinci painted several women portraits.

Mona Lisa (Musee du Louvre, Paris) La Belle Ferronniere (Musee du Louvre, Paris) Lady with an Ermine (Czartoryski Museum, Cracow) Portrait of Ginevra Benci (National Gallery of Art, Washington, DC) Lady Beatrice d'Este (Pinacoteca Ambrosiana, Milan, Italy)

Does someone know, if all, or some (which one), are actually signed by Leonardo da Vinci.

Thank you.

I don't remember seeing any that were signed. Click on the links and check. — The Mac Davis] ญƛ. 21:00, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't believe the Mona Lisa is a woman. The sex of the famous portrait's subject is often disputed. I learned something from the Da Vinci Code! Viva La V i e Boheme 22:36, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You learned the wrong thing from the Da Vinci Code (which isn't surprising; Dan Brown isn't that good at researching things. I still can't get over the gaffes he pulled in Digital Fortress. Not to mention the racism.) According to the Mona Lisa article above, the possibility was only very slim that it might have been Francesco del Giocondo. --ColourBurst 05:13, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

July 27

19th Century Portrait Custom

In most of the 19th century (maybe earlier) it was customary for the subject of a portrait photograph or painting to place one hand (usually the right hand) inside of an open coat or shirt, concealing the hand from the picture. Does anyone know the reason for this or how the custom originated? --69.1.26.166 01:17, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure if this was the origin of this custom, but the person best known for doing this was probably Napoleon I of France (Napoleon Bonaparte). A quick Google search seems to indicate this was due to some kind of stomach complaint. It's possible that this pose was adopted by military types in the 19th century in deference to Napoleon's military prowess. --Canley 03:39, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't really know anything about the subject, but this page, discussing Napoleon in particular, seems to be fairly well referenced. It says that the custom existed before Napeoleon, possibly as a revival of something going as far back as the ancient Greeks. It doesn't give any explanation as to why it first appeared, however. --Vardion 06:56, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know how germane it is (taking Vardion's page as true), but Roman sculptures and portraits of noble Romans would have the hand on the breast to indicate oratory being given. It was a "noble" pose, as that hand was in and on the toga, which by itself indicated wealth. Only men of rank got the toga, and Cicero, among others, was often portrayed with the hand across in mid speech. Geogre 11:52, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

One example of a modern soldier doing this pose before Napoleon made it famous is this portrait of George Washington from 1772. As a young man, Washington's military heroes were guys like Frederick the Great—I wonder if there's a portrait of Frederick with this pose? After Napoleon, William Tecumseh Sherman was notably depicted striking the pose. --Kevin Myers | (complaint dept.) 02:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

- George S. Patton struck the pose, too, according to his biopic. Then again, he may have believed that he had been Frederick the Great. Geogre 12:45, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

General Pershing and the uprising in the PHILLIPINES

During his duty years GENERAL PERSHING confronted an uprising in the Phillipines brought on by TERRORIST UPRISINGS. I don't remember which president it was (HOOVER or WILSON)but he was instructed to take care of the matter and he did by capturing a few enemy troops and proceeded to allow them to watch the soldiers load their cartridges and shells in the munitions area and then dip each bullet or shell point in PIGS blood and then carelessly let the captives escape back to their respective enemy camps. AS soon as the message of the blood tipped bullets was delivered , the war was strangely over. Does anybody know where I can find the whole story???

See Philippine-American war. Nonetheless, calling the natives of the Philipines terrorists seems Americentric (as in it only tells of the American side of the story). --ColourBurst 02:54, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, late in the war, the rebels did "blend into the civilian population" after each attack, which is banned by the laws of war, as it essentially "dares" the military to kill off all the civilians to get to the attackers (which, I believe, is just what the US did). This is quite similar to what Hamas and Hezbollah are doing now, with similar results. So, calling them terrorists isn't that far out of line. StuRat 20:06, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think there's a difference there, since the U.S. were calling them terrorists in order to make their Imperialistic takeover more palatable to the Americans (there was a significant number of people who were opposed, including Mark Twain and William Jennings Bryan). I think calling people terrorists in a country you're about to invade to justify your invasion seems a little disingenuous. And please don't mention 9/11, the attack was on American soil. --ColourBurst 17:11, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A few fact checks are needed here. First, I wouldn't call the movement of American troops into the Philippines an "invasion", as they were replacing Spanish troops (after Spain ceded the country to the US following the Spanish-American War). Also, the natives weren't called terrorists until several years later when they took up the tactic of attacking and then running to hide among civilians. In fact, they may not have been called terrorists even then, as I'm not sure that the term had yet been coined. StuRat 07:25, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The story I am looking for concerns the uprising which to my understanding was by any estimate 100%Muslim and if you have pigs blood in your veins or in your system, then you dont get the VIRGINS and you dont go wherever you are suppose to end up. I know it happened and Im not really interested in the politics of the issue,I would just like to read the account.There are many 20 to 30 year old fathers that will never come home again because of sombody elses desire to change the world to their liking. I can only say that if I were in such a position as our troops are, Id sure try some old time proven methods of retaliation .The great part of this story is that it was done and it worked,and the weird part may well be that only 1 piglet was used and the word got around and that was the end , nobody wants to get a bullet in the rear with pigs blood on it, especially in IRAQ. Refrick Nimby7/28/06

Sounds like a myth to me. StuRat 07:25, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

We could sure prove or disprove it by trying in on the battlefields if some of the big shot generals had the guts to try it. Guest comment : Stuart Timmons 29 July 06

You can't spit on the right side of the sidewalk every other Tuesday

Does anyone know what these, silly, often very old laws are called? A couple examples I remember are you can't spit on the right side of the sidewalk every other Tuesday , wearing fake mustaches to church is illegal (I remember this one was passed in Massachusetts^{[citation needed]}), etc. If possible, could someone direct me to an article of them? I've searched but I can't find them. A web site of them would do as well. Thanks --71.117.42.124 01:44, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Wacky laws? It brings up a few google hits. --LynnMarie 03:07, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

You must have mistaken spoofs with reality. See Portal:Law.--Patchouli 04:16, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Prohibition Amendment might be close to what you seek, but Amendment XXI repealed it.--Patchouli 05:53, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Rita Verdonk is known for proposing some ridiculous laws, such as a law against speaking other languages than Dutch in public spaces. This would have been a bit of a problem for foreign students and such. Of course the law wasn't passed - it was only intended to appeal to the xenophobic part of the Netherlands. Another xenophobic law was however passed in Germany, saying that a religious head dress wasn't allowed for teachers. It took a judge to point out that that applied not only to muslims but also to christians, ie nuns. They're now banned from appearing before class. At last a positive result of the recent wave of xenophobia. :) I wonder, though, if this also applies to calottes and therefore rabbi's. DirkvdM 08:52, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Snopes is usually full of these sort of goodies-hotclaws**==(81.134.68.10 09:32, 27 July 2006 (UTC))[reply]

Thanks to Khomeini [I'm being sarcastic], Iranian women must dress like mullah being wearing a chador or a manteau. All their hair must be covered. Here is a fate of an Iranian female who refused

“

Atefeh Rajabi (1988 to 2004 August 15) was a sixteen year-old Iranian girl who was executed in Iran after being sentenced to death by an Iranian judge, Haji Rezaii, for allegedly having committed "acts incompatible with chastity" (having sexual intercourse with an older man), and for removing her hijab while arguing with her judge in court.

”

The judge executed her personally. Of course, since he is Muslim, he can get away with it and have a higher moral ground.--Patchouli 19:29, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Of course, being the US means one can get away with a lot of shit and have a higher moral ground. How was that legal construct again, that allows the US to torture people in Cuba? (Clarification for US readers - I'm being sarcstic too). DirkvdM 11:40, 28 July 2006 (UTC0

The U.S. doesn't let its prison guards violently pull at the penises of dissident as a form of torture the way heavy-bearded Iranian Hezbollahis do.--Patchouli 22:12, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Oh? Ah, you're right, that sort of thing is not done in the US. That will make the victims very happy. DirkvdM 06:19, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"It's only torture if it leaves permanent physical damage". --Serie 18:32, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No it isn't. Mental torture can be even worse (although that is hard to measure). DirkvdM 06:19, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Just in case you think that was a bit uncalled for, I'm just annoyed with this "let's hit on Muslims" fad. For really stupid and cruel laws it would probably be better to look at the rule of people like Idi Amin. I just can't remember any examples, but there must be some beauties there. DirkvdM 11:51, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Idi Amin was a pro-Palestinian Muslim.--Patchouli 22:12, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, I didn't know that. But he just happens to be a muslim. He wasn't particularly known for being one and that's not the reason I mentioned him. By the way, this is ironic, considering that Israel (and Great Britain) helped him with his coup. And I believe the US were involved as well. DirkvdM 06:19, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

He was a foe of Israelis and rose to power due to Milton Obote incompetence by not totally stripping Idi Amin of power. He also aided Palestinian kidnappers during the hijacking of a passenger airplane (Operation Entebbe in 1976). The international community hailed him due to ignorance. Ayatollah Khomeini became the Man of the Year in 1979, too. I don't know of any U.S. involvement.

The United States does so many things around the world that people think everything is done by the United States.--Patchouli 07:21, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

But if no one hit on Muslims, what would your excuse be for gratuitous swipes at the U.S.? Or is being "sarcstic" a good enough excuse on its own? -Nunh-huh 20:08, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Eh? DirkvdM 06:19, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It is really funny how a lot of pro-Muslims and Muslims in democracies praise theocracies and justify their action, but never move there themselves. Muhammad Ali came to Iran, went to a four-star hotel provided by the mullahs, praised Islam, and guess what? He swiftly came back to the U.S.

I also don't understand females who live in Europe, America, and Australia and go to a mosques and observe the hijab. They want the benefits of freedom and at the same time claim holiness, imitate Muhammad's wives, and laud Islamic theocracies.--Patchouli 22:26, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I fixed your indentation, assuming you are referring to me. I'm not a Muslim nor a pro-Muslim (whatever that is). Actually, I think religion is one of the worst things that happened to mankind. This xenophobic bickering that leads to war is exactly what I mean. And I've been to several Muslim countries (for a total time of at least half a year). I also came back (I wasn't planning on emigrating), but the biggest Muslim country happens to be one of the two I'd love to go back to one day, partly because the people are so wonderful (Indonesia - the other being New Zealand, partly for the same reason). DirkvdM 06:19, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Umm... getting back to the question at hand, try Blue law and Blue Laws. --hydnjo talk 18:26, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Lucille Lund

I could not find an article on the 1930's movie star, Lucille Lund ? She starred in many movies (mostly Universal Studios) in the 1930's. She was known as a "natural beauty" (Norwegian heritage). Some of the movies she starred in were "Horseplay", "Saturday's Millions" ,"Timber War", Fighting Through", "Range Warfare", "The Awful Goof", "Calling All Doctors", "The Big Squirt", "Girls Can Play", "Blake of Scotland Yard", - "Healthy, Wealthy & Dumb" + "Three Dumb Clucks" - all with the three stooges & "The Black Cat" - with Boris Karlof ! Her 2 daughters, Terry & Kimmie were famous teenage Los Angeles models & also known as "natural beauties" (half Norwegian). I'm not sure how to "add an article" to Wikipedia, so I didn't even try to add any of this info.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.227.186.206 (talk • contribs) 04:19, July 27, 2006 (UTC).

You can click on the following: Lucille Lund. It will allow you to create the article. The most common way to create an article is to put the desired lemma in the "search" box. When it comes up with nothing, you get the chance to create a new article. The other way is to go to any article, look at the URL in your browser, and overwrite the article's name in the URL with the desired article name, and you will immediately be taken to the "create this article" section. Geogre 11:49, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
This requires the user to create an account first, by clicking the "create account" link in the top right-hand corner of any Wikipedia page. --Lambiam ^Talk 10:45, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

nakshatra diamonds

are nakshatra diamond jewellery cut and polished in india or singapore or belgium ?--212.72.3.31 06:53, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

they are made in mumbai--Mightright 16:00, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Number of Drinkers Compared to Non-Drinkers

Are there any statistics for the ratio of non-drinkers to drinkers in the US? Worldwide?--Maryann10016 07:15, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

By 'drink' I assume you mean alcohol. But do you mean complete abstinence (from birth to death)? That would be hard to measure. For example, many muslims would lie about this because their religion forbids the consumption of alcohol. DirkvdM 08:59, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Try the CDC Nowimnthing 16:32, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Amount of Vegetarians compared to Meat Eaters in US

What is the ratio of vegetarians to meat eaters in the USA? In the world? Any statistics comparing the amount of vegetarians to vegans in the USA? The world?--Maryann10016 07:29, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It seems to be difficult to get consistent figures. According to our articles on vegetarianism and veganism, either 2.6% or 4% (respectively) of the population of the USA are vegetarians, about 5% in the UK, and the figure is about 30% in India. You will find more statistics in those articles.--Shantavira 18:05, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think you have those figures backwards - by definition, there are at least as many vegetarians as vegans. Vegans are a subset of vegetarians. --Bmk 18:26, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sha- was likely referring to statistics reported in the aforementioned articles. I'd expect a lot of flux, yeah? Vegetarian/veganism seems to be picked up more often as a temporary fashion than a permanent lifestyle choice...

Do those figures account for all those people who claim they are vegetarian, but eat poultry and / or fish (ie, not vegetarian)? Proto::type 15:25, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Why do some vegetarians eat fish? I remember I tried to contest fish as a vegetarian food when it was an answer in a test! (We were given a menu in French and had to select a vegetarian meal, when all included meat. I also know a vegetarian and former vegan who ate fish and gave an explaination... but I forgot. --Bearbear 16:05, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

John Entwistle died on July 27 or June 27

Dear Helpdesk,

In the article on John Entwistle it states he died on June 27, 2002, however he is mentioned as having died on the page of "July 27". I assume you are mixing up June and July and the real month should be June.

Can you please correct this ?

Best regards, Hubito.

You are correct. However, you can correct the article yourself by clicking on the "edit" link. I will make the correction now. Geogre 11:46, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Information management systems

Hello everyone

May some one please help me what is the difference between a document management system, records management system, an information management system and a database management system. Can you give me examples of each if possible?

Thank you very much

OK.

A document management system is a system that manages documents.

A record management system is a system that manages records.

An information management system is a system that manages information.

A database management system is a system that manages databases.

Easy! Proto::type 15:38, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

And I've added links above for your convenience. I sometimes think we need a pretty template that says "This is an encyclopedia. You can look it up for yourself."--Shantavira 18:14, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

rate this

do you find this funny and which site do you find such stuff

50 things not 2 do on an elevator--Mightright 14:18, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Make race car noises when anyone gets on or off.
Blow your nose and offer to show the contents of your tissue to other passengers.

...etc.... edited down by Lomn all right if u can do all these 50 things next time ur in an elevator then u seriously hav no self respect!! peace out--Mightright 14:18, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't find them particularly amusing, but I expect you could find more by googling stupid lists, annoying behavior lists, or similar keywords. — Lomn | Talk 14:41, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

that was rather rude ,why dont u have a sense of humour

As it turns out, I do have a sense of humor. "Making race car noises in an elevator", however, is well below the radar. As for "rudeness", I suggested what I felt to be relevant keywords. You're not going to find lists like this as high comedic art, but there's a good chance you'll find them with a blog post to the effect of d00dz th1s is cr4zy stufff!!!!1. — Lomn | Talk 16:58, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think that showing somebody nasal excretions is also a bit rude, maybe that's just me. — The Mac Davis] ญƛ. 20:59, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Was this by any chane C/Ped from WP:BJAODN? Wizrdwarts (T|C|E) 23:11, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

USSR Building

I'm currently researching Soviet Russia, and I've come across a picture that's brought somehing back to me. It's a drawing of a huge thin pyramid type building with a statue of what looks like Lenin on the banks of the river in St. Petersburg/Leningrad. I know I saw a TV documentary that said that this was a planned building under Stalin (maybe to celebrate the anniversary of the revolution/Lenin's birthday or soemthing) but that it was never built (obviously, because it's not really there!). Does anyone know what it is??? Thanks.

It doesn't really fit your description but Tatlin's Tower is a famous non-existent building. MeltBanana 18:53, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds like the Palace of Soviets. There is a nice page on unrealized Moscow buildings here which is what I used to find it. --Fastfission 01:06, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

GODZILLA

Judging by size of skyscrapers in New York City, how tall would you say the American version, Zilla, is from the ground to the tip of his head and from his nose-tip to his tail-tip when standing nomrally?

he varies size according to the movie, see Godzilla, the original 1954 was around 400 feet tall whereas some later ones were around 250 feet tall. In the 1998 american version he apears to be much smaller, maybe around 150 feet tall but much of that is because he/she??? walks all hunched over like a t-rex. Nowimnthing 16:53, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Considering "he" lacks a vital part of the male anatomy (assuming the creature is built in proportion), I'd suggest "she". This seems not to be significant enough to be mentioned in our article though. Or perhaps that's why he/she is always hunched over?--Shantavira 18:19, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The 1998 movie played obsessively on HBO for a while, and so I accidentally saw it all the way through. That one is definitely female and is heading for a nest of eggs in Madison Square Garden. Geogre 19:01, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

And even if it was male, showing it's giant penis would make the movie get an adults-only rating, which would be box office death for a monster movie aimed at kids and teens. StuRat 19:50, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

How true. Apparently a giant vulva is fine for the kiddies, but a giant willy would somehow ruin their lives. We still have a long way to go. JackofOz 20:48, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A giant vulva is probably not fine for the kiddies, and anyway where are its giant mammaries? As for box office death, I think we could be on to a winner. Has anyone made "Godzilla Does Dallas" yet? Oh, inevitably Google suggests that someone's beaten us to it...--Shantavira 08:42, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Giant mammaries? Godzilla's a reptile, man! She doesn't nurse her young. That's what electrical power stations are for! (Godzilla Behind the Green Door?) Geogre 12:43, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I was thinking of King Kong. "King Kong Does Dallas" has no Google hits so we could still be onto a winner.--Shantavira 14:41, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Concerning the, er, anatomical questions, see cloaca. --Cam 15:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sturmtruppen

From Sturmtruppen (article): The "Alleaten del Sol Levante" (The Ally from the Rising Sun) is a clear satire of the Japanese soldier, partly based on stereotypes such as a self-sacrificing attitude, sense of honor, etcetera. He is also portrayed as a sex maniac and exchanges racist taunts with Musolesi, whom he despises. Because of his short stature, for a long time he is believed to be the son of a gay couple of German soldiers. In what vignettes "il fiero alleaten del Sol levante" is portrayed as a sex maniac? I readed Sturmtruppen and I don't viewed any vignette in which the "Alleaten del Sol Levante" is portrayed as sex maniac. --Vess 16:27, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think you should better raise that point in the talk-page of same article. You can certainly improve the article anytime. Flamarande 17:31, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Atalaya

Atalaya (Sp?) is a late 19th century Spanish painter. Does anyone know something about him? Thanks, Stephen Wertheimer, aka <email removed to prevent Stephen being spammified>

There are probablypeople here that do... but they are more likely to hang out at Wikipedia:Reference desk/Humanities. try asking there. Grutness...wha? 06:30, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Enrique Atalaya, Spanish, 1851-1913 - THE GREAT GAVINI {T-C} 18:22, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

historical time line

My question is probably a stupid one but here goes. in all reading they refer to a period of time before the birth of christ as b.c. and after his death a.d. My question is two-fold, How long did christ walk the earth? and what is the timeline called when he was alive and where in history is it located? Any help on this question would be appreciated. Thank You!!! George Ennis <e-mail removed to prevent spam>

Actually, a.d refers to Anno domini, which translates roughly to "in the year of our Lord"; it is set based on the traditionally viewed year of Jesus' birth. More in the article! (Refactored question to remove the boxy thingie and clean up the page.) Tony Fox (speak) 18:13, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

According to our article on Jesus of Nazareth, the date range in which Jesus probably lived was between 8 to 2 BC and 29 to 36 AD. This would give him a possible lifespan of between 31 years and 44 years. I don't know of any special name for the time period during his life. --Bmk 18:19, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

These days you are increasingly likely to find BCE and CE used as a religiously neutral alternatives.--Shantavira 18:24, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Gospels give us Jesus's death as occurring at the age of 33, which is commonly referred to as the Christological year in medieval tradition (imagine the fuss given to turning 40 today and magnify it). However, since AD is supposed to begin at the birth of Jesus, His life took place (if AD were correct) from 1-33 AD. In fact, the computation of Jesus's birth is almost certainly off, but it was a darned good guess, given what was available. Geogre 18:58, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Book claiming that events of Bible took place in British Isles

Years ago I read an article about a 19th or early to mid 20th century author who wrote a book claiming that all the events of the Old and New Testaments took place in Britain. There were nice touches like Jesus growing up in Cornwall and being crucified in Edinburgh, or similar. Anyone heard of this and know the guy's name? Mattley ^(Chattley) 18:43, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Britain, the Key to World History perhaps, by William Comyns Beaumont. This book not only places biblical events in Britain, but also claims, among other things, that Atlantis was really Scotland.

("The Holy Land was not originally Palestine but in the British Isles and a part of Scandinavia which, in antediluvian times, was separated from Britain by a narrow stretch of water known to antiquity as the Hellespont. The destruction of Atlantis, Noah’s flood and similar catastrophe legends all over the world referred to one and the same event, the fall of a huge double comet made up of fragments from a collapsed planet. It landed in Scotland, not far from Edinburgh which in those days was called Jerusalem. The accident was considered a miracle because Jerusalem was then under siege by a colonial army, equipped with superior firearms and led by a brilliant but sinister character whom Beaumont identified simultaneously as Moses, Zoroaster, Silenus and Odin. By the storms, floods and earthquakes which followed the invading host was destroyed, and so was much of Atlantis-Britain. The bulk of the comet increased the size of the earth and knocked it further away from the sun, lengthening the period of its orbit from 360 to 3651/4 days and altering its climate. The British Isles, which had previously enjoyed sub-tropical weather, became cold and misty. Many of the surviving population migrated south, founding colonies which they named after districts of their homeland, Egypt, Israel, Greece and so on. Yet the stricken lands of the North continued to be the centre of world culture. Jerusalem was rebuilt on its ancient site in Edinburgh, York flourished as Babylon, Lincoln as Antioch, London as Damascus, Bristol as both Sodom and Tarshish, and Bath as the Philistine city of Gath. The Holy Family settled near Glastonbury, where Jesus was born, and his entire mission took place in Somerset, then known as Galilee.")

See: [12] (scroll down a bit.) David Sneek 19:19, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that's the guy! Shame there is no article on him, though I see he's been requested. [[13]].He seems to have been right on the fringes of the fringe. Mattley ^(Chattley) 19:39, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Is he related to the British Israelism people? Adam Bishop 21:20, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hard to say. It was reading that and the article here on Christian Identity that reminded me of it, but there may not be much of a connection. Very little information available online. This absence of information is, of course, a sign that it is in fact THE TRUTH and has had to be ruthlessly suppressed by an International Zionist Masonic conspiracy. Or at least, that's what one source reckons... [14]. Mattley ^(Chattley) 21:39, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

And did those feet in ancient time

Walk upon England’s mountains green?

And was the holy Lamb of God

On England’s pleasant pastures seen?

Bwithh 05:20, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No. Mattley ^(Chattley) 10:17, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A related note: Avalon is supposed to be where Jesus walked England's pleasant pastures. But that's a mythical place. So much for England having pleasant patures. :) DirkvdM 12:00, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Laws governing the British Navy

I cannot find any reference to anything other than "The Articles of War" which governed from 1750 on. The question is on to what date? Were these same rules in place in 1860? The current standard was placed in effect in 1935 or thereabouts but I find it hard to believe that the rules remained the same from 1750 to 1935, at least without amendments.

1750 to 1935 seems, in the absence of contrary evidence, quite reasonable. This is primarily because very few, if any, references would consider amendments or annotations to qualify as complete overhauls. For instance, I would expect a similar statement that Parliament has governed the UK from 1807 on, as the fundamental mechanism has persisted despite the fact that the MPs have changed many times over. — Lomn | Talk 21:01, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

...a disciplinary code known as the Articles of War. This was given the force of law by acts passed in 1652 and 1661 which were not revised until 1749.

Lloyd, Christopher (1974). The Nation and the Navy: A History of Naval Life and Policy. Westport, CT: Greenwood Press. pp. p. 57. {{cite book}}: |pages= has extra text (help)

During the long period when Anson was at the Admiralty (1744-62) a number of reforms were instituted which set the pattern of the Navy until sweeping changes occurred after 1832. As has been seen, officers' uniform was introduced. The Articles of War were revised into a shape which remained virtually unchanged until 1861.

(Lloyd 1974, p. 146)

The Naval Discipline Act of 1866, embodying a revised version of the Articles of War, is the basis of modern discipline...

(Lloyd 1974 p. 211)

EricR 23:22, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

History WWII Combatants

I would like to know the maximum numbers of military forces of the various combatants (i.e. U.S., USSR, Germany, Japan, Great Britain, France) at their height in WWII; total casualties? I have tried unsuccessfully to find this information.

Thank you.

Ken McConnell

World War II casualties seems to have the information you require. --Richardrj 07:28, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Why are these called 'causualties'? Casualty (person) says it usually refers to "deaths and injuries", not just deaths. So shouldn't the word 'deaths' be used here? If only to avoid confusion. Is the word used to make it sound less bad than it actually is? DirkvdM 12:03, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think this was a term for use by the generals, they were only concerned with how many soldiers they had "lost" (those who could no longer fight) and weren't as concerned with whether they were wounded or dead. StuRat 17:46, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

But in that sense, 'casualty' would mean both, but here only the dead are meant. That's the confusion I mean. To avoid that, it would make more sense to use just the words 'wounded' and 'dead'. So the article would then have to be named something like World War II death toll. DirkvdM 18:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The second table includes wounded as well as killed. Rmhermen 22:30, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What's the title of this film?

An old science fiction movie in which the earth was threatened by a rogue star named "Bellus" or something similar. The star was moving into earth orbit and was going to consume the planet. A group of survivors piled into a spaceship and traveled to another star system where it landed on a planet able to support human life. It looked like a 1950's era film.

When Worlds Collide (film) MeltBanana 00:46, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

July 28

Chinese resturants

I notice there are a lot of chinese resturants all over the place; and chinese food is probably the second most common food to order out besides pizza (not that I know this officially, it's just a guess). And I notice that all of the workers in these resturants are usually genuine Chinese. Where do all these people come from? Is it all the people who left China because it became communistic? Or is it just a coincidence? --Jonathan ^talk 00:40, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know what Chinese Food Resturants you go to, but from the 3 or 4 I've been too, there were probably 6-10 Asians. They're pretty much all Mexican. Then again, I'm in Texas, so that explains it. I wonder if Chinese resturants in New York have a bunch of Canadians working in them. schyler 00:45, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There are always Asians in them in Toronto (whether they are specifically Chinese or Japanese or Vietnamese or whatever, I don't know). Adam Bishop 02:31, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Actually most of the ones in the Southern U.S. are staffed by Central/South Americans and owned by Asians (usually, but not always.) --ColourBurst 04:55, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

See the articles Overseas Chinese and Chinese Migration. The Chinese have a long history of overseas migration, for a variety of different reasons. In the 19th century, a lot of Chinese emigration was prompted by gold rushes in the United States and Australia. In the 20th century, war and famine were among the main causes: not communism as the sole reason, but almost certainly related factors. In the late 20th century to now, I would think that business and education are the driving factors behind Chinese migration. --Canley 04:12, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've been to probably well over 100 Chinese restaurants in Australia over the years, and I don't recall ever seeing a non-Chinese person working in one. JackofOz 04:55, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, if you look at the historical reasons for immigration a lot of it has to do with strife and opportunity. Almost all of the groups who immigrated over to the U.S. are like this. Many of them operate restaurants (those who can afford to do so) because it's relatively easy versus say a retail or manufacturing business, and the potential is decent (everybody needs food). In fact, many of the original pizzerias were operated by Italian Americans, while most modern pizza establishments are operated by conglomerates. --ColourBurst 04:55, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's often to do with exploiting cheap labour brought from the homeland. In some cases, Chinese restaurant owners will bring their extended family and neighbours over to work very cheapily. It's easier to negotiate such things if they are socially and culturally already connected. This can result in areas in the West where almost all the Chinese restaurants are run by people from the same particular connected group of villages and towns in China. It's not just in places like New York City - I know the area around Marbella, Spain and many of the Chinese restaurants there are both owned by and staffed with Chinese from the same small region. In other cases, people in China unconnected by family or village may sign up to work very cheaply (possibly as indentured servants) just to have the opportunity in go to the US. Bwithh 05:13, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You have to consider that one fifth of the world population are Chinese. So it makes sense that they form a major proportion of immigrants anywhere, without there having to be a special cause for it. Also, if there already is a community of some ethnic group somewhere, that will make it easier for new immigrants of that ethnic group. And Chinese are known to help eahc other out (or is that a myth?). So once the ball started rolling, it was an invitation for even more migration.

Buy the way, the pizza vs Chinese food comparison is interresting. I can imagine that in the US pizzas are sold more than Chinese food, but here in the Netherlands that is the other way around - pizzas are on the rise, but Chinese/Indonesian restaurants have been all over the place for at least decades. Even more ubiquitous than fast food joints (FcDonalds and the like), unless you also count traditional chips 'restaurants' and wall outlets like FEBO. DirkvdM 12:15, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Note that, at least in the US, both Chinese food and pizza have become so "Amercanized", that they bear little resemblance to the original. Pizza in Italy typically only had cheese and tomato sauce (although tomatoes originated in America, too), the idea of topping them with everything but the kitchen sink is an American idea, as was home delivery. Chinese food in China had been much healthier, but in America much more meat and grease was added. Fortune cookies were also invented in America, by Chinese immigrants. I wonder if the American versions of these items have propagated back to Italy and China yet. StuRat 17:15, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Probably, if only to feed the US tourists there. :) I wonder if there are any Pizza Huts in Italy. DirkvdM 18:05, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That being said, the last time I went to Italy (a few years ago) you could get all sorts of toppings on your pizza. However, they're sold by weight and the toppings are very different. --ColourBurst 19:47, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Origin of the phrase "Blackmailer's Charter"

Who originally referred to the Labouchere Amendment as the "blackmailer's charter"? Google reveals only that it was thus called by "one commentator" (in Criminal Law Amendment Act 1885); I see that this phrase was used in the film Victim. Is there an earlier reference? Does anyone know who originally dubbed it that? grendel|khan 01:39, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Information Management Systems

Dear Shantavira Thanks for you answer and maybe you are right I should not have asked this question on this side cause this is after all an encyclopedia. I just want to mention that your answer is like someone asking what is an apple and you telling them an apple is an apple. Ofcourse I know that an information management system will manage information, a document management system will maage documents and so forth. Just so you know, I checked the definitions before asking that question so I know what they are. What I asked for was the difference between those systems and that is because I use some of those systems and sometimes find it difficult to understand if one would call the other an information, document, record or database management system. I mean in documents, you have information and those documents are also called company records so this is where the confusion for me stems from. Thank you

(The above is a comment on an earlier question.) When asking about straightforward definitions, it's probably a good idea to mention that you've consulted the relevant articles, if only by linking to them, otherwise you'll probably just be directed there for an answer. This is not my area of expertise, so I can't expand on it, although I agree there is likely to be considerable overlap between the different systems.--Shantavira 08:50, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

A database management system is a system for storage and retrieval of data. The most popular database management systems today are relational databases, which typically allow the user to search for data using SQL queries. Examples: Oracle database, Mysql. The data are typically stored as low-level data types, such as integers and text, but storage of large binary data objects (blobs) is also possible. A document management system is a system for storage and retrieval of documents, such as word-processor files, pdfs, images etc. A document management system will often use a database management system as a back-end, storing the documents in blobs, and keeping keywords etc. for searching the files in separate tables. Example: A system for organising standard operating procedures in a large organisation. As far as I know, an 'information management system' may mean a lot of different things, and is not a term I would choose if I intended to convey a precise technical concept without qualifying information. I was not familiar with the term 'record management system'. A record usually means an entry in a database table. However according to our article, it appears to have a well-defined meaning on the java platform. --vibo56^talk 14:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Cyanide and Happiness

I was just curious why articles on the popular webcomic "Cyanide and Happiness" has "been deleted, and should not be re-created without a good reason."

Plenty of other webcomics have web pages and I cannot seem to find a reason why the page was delted.

If someone could give a clear answer it would be helpful.

Thanks -Allen.

I think it was because it was voted to be deleted so many times at AfD that it was banned from being recreated altogether. That's the reason given in the history anyhoo. - THE GREAT GAVINI {T-C} 07:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The reason why a page is deleted can be found in the discussions that happened before it was deleted: here is a discussion Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cyanide and happiness (webcomic). There was a request for a review of the decision here. There is some jargon in the discussion: nn = "not notable"; mentions of POV and NPOV mean that the article was not written from a neutral point of view (perhaps it looked more like a fan page than an encylopedia article). You will observe that not one voice was raised in favour of keeping the article. If you need any more help intepreting it, please let us know. Notinasnaid 08:24, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Additionally, you can review Wikipedia's deletion policy to familiarize yourself with the include/exclude criteria we employ. There may be articles on other webcomics, but those have either not been discussed or have been discussed and found to pass our criterion. This article's fitness was assessed on Articles for Deletion and on Deletion Review, and the article should not be attempted again unless there have been substantial changes in the circumstances that led to its exclusion. Geogre 12:41, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Note: because webcomics are so easy to make, any webcomic has to be very, very good that it wins awards (PvP, Copper, Derek Kirk Kim's work), or is mentioned in newspapers and other such publications (Sluggy Freelance, PhD Comics), or syndicated (I guess Dilbert and Boondocks would go here, but they're not strictly webcomics), or is important in a non-webcomics sense (and even then it's probably going to be merged into another article). There's a lot of webcomic authors that want to try and use Wikipedia as a launch vehicle for their pet webcomic. It's not really what Wikipedia is about. (or as I like to say it, recognition is earned.) --ColourBurst 20:30, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Guomingdang and the CCP

What were the main policy differences between those two parties, and in short how did the CCP overpower the GMD in china?

On wikipedia somewhat different names are used for these parties; see Kuomintang and CPC. David Sneek 09:34, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Running unopposed for US Congress (Robert Wexler)

I saw the Better Know A District segment where Stephen Colbert interviewed Robert Wexler, a Democrat who has represented Florida's 19th district in the United States House of Representatives since 1997 (video clip). Wexler was said to be uncontested in the 2006 election, and the Wikipedia article Robert Wexler also uses that wording. (As a result, Colbert asked him to make certain statements that would lose him the election if he did have an opponent, and Wexler complied by saying that both cocaine and prostitutes are "fun thing[s] to do".) My questions are:

Is Wexler really "unopposed" in the 2006 election in the sense that no other candidates will be listed on the ballot, even third-party candidates and independents? or is it simply that the Republican Party is not fielding a candidate against him?
Why doesn't the Republican Party run a candidate against him? I realize that the district is heavily Democratic, but still; shouldn't both major parties contest every district in the country just on principle? After all, the point of an election for national office is not only trying to win a seat; it's also a way to air the issues and make your party's platform known to the citizens, even in areas where the majority is expected to support someone else. --Mathew5000 11:38, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The term "unopposed" normally means that no other Republican or Democrat is running. I would rather not get into the whole issue about the U.S. being a 2-party system where both parties have the same agenda (money and power) and push out third parties and independents in a highly similar fashion to Chinese politics which we are supposed to believe is a totalitarianship. As for why the Republicans don't run a candidate, there are many reasons: They don't want to waste the money. No candidate there was able to raise his/her own share of the payoff to get the Republicans to back him/her. By giving the Democrats this seat without opposition, the Democrats will give the Republicans a seat somewhere else without question. The guy running may play both sides well, so he is just as much Republican as Democrat. --Kainaw ^(talk) 13:00, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

And this issue is really a subset of the general question "is it worthwhile to fight for a lost cause" ? Some say no, others say yes. In many wars one side continues to fight even after it is quite apparent that their side will lose, such as the Confederacy in the US Civil War. The primary benefit of fighting (having some possibility of winning) is now gone, so do secondary benefits justify the cost ? I had a High School teacher who ran in a state election just so the other candidate would not run unopposed, even though he had no chance of winning. He did get to participate in a debate, though, so got to voice his opinions. StuRat 16:58, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't agree that running in an election is tantamount to "fighting".--Mathew5000 01:00, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

According to the Florida Division of Elections, Wexler is completely unopposed in the general election, as are four other Democrats. Presumably, this is the result of squeezing Democratic voters into fewer districts through gerrymandering. -- Mwalcoff 23:36, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The 19th is, at least superficially, a pretty strange looking district, however Googling about I haven't been able to find anybody claiming there was gerrymandering involved, and the legislature has been controlled by Republicans for some time now (they've been the ones accused of gerrymandering there for the last decade, apparently). --Fastfission 00:06, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Based on my religious viewing of The Colbert Report, most congressional districts in the U.S. are pretty strange looking. Also, the fact that this district is heavily Democratic is not evidence against gerrymandering by Republicans. If the Republicans were going to gerrymander electoral districts, one thing they would do is attempt to cram as many Democrats as possible into any district that already had a large majority of Democrats. --Mathew5000 00:19, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Mwalcoff for the link to the Florida Division of Elections web site. Chapter 3 of the 2006 Federal Qualifying Handbook (PDF) states what is necessary to get on the ballot for Congress. The fee is $9,726 for "party affiliation candidates" or $6,484 for "no party affiliation candidates". Alternatively, someone can get on the ballot without paying the fee by collecting signatures on a petition of 1% of the total number of registered voters of the district. A third way to participate in the election is to submit qualifying papers as a write-in candidate. This explains to some extent why there are no fringe candidates or protest candidates on the ballot in the 19th district: $6,484 is a sizeable amount to most people, and collecting that many signatures would be difficult. There may still be protest candidates planning to campaign against Wexler as write-in candidates. I still find it surprising, however, that the Republican Party is not running any candidate. You would think the Party could afford to put up $9,726, plus a few thousand more for a skeleton campaign, just to have someone on the ballot as a point of principle. Otherwise doesn't it look like they are saying that the Republican Party doesn't care about Republican voters in the 19th district? Even though everybody knows that a Republican candidate would not win in that district, aren't Republican voters pissed off that they don't even have an option on the ballot with which to express their preference? --Mathew5000 01:00, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, theoretically any Republican in the district could try to collect the necessary signatures to get on the ballot. But the party organizations aren't going to waste any resources on a district they can only win if the incumbent is arrested for murder. I remember reading in 2004 that there was a chance the Libertarians might actually contest more Texas districts than the Democrats. -- Mwalcoff 04:53, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Criticism of emerging middle class during age of guilds

I once read a one-paragraph criticism of middle-class values that was written in the age of the guilds, i.e. 1300's or 1400's (maybe later?). It is remarkably well written and as accurate today as then; it focused on mind-set and attitudes. I don't know where it is from or how to find it. Please help. Thank you.

Erm - what are you looking for help with, the subject matter or finding this paragraph? In the latter case you'e going to have to be a lot more specific than that, there are millions if not billions of documents on our planet... — QuantumEleven 09:18, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Romanian Gypsies

I am reading the biography of Lee Miller. She was a photojournalist in WWII. She visited Romania shortly after the war. She wrote about the gypsys she met who owned bears. These bears gave her a fabulous massage by walking on her back. They were taught to be gentle but firm. The bears were taught to carefully sit on the customer's neck to relieve pain. The bears were prized assets. Romania ran bear hotels - where the owner and his bear slept side by side.

I'm researching an article on massage in the 21st century. This reference to the bears seems like a wonderful place to start on modern day massage.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

What sort of help are you looking for? Do you sources other than the biography you have? A google search revealed this reference in a chronology and a mention here. While you're at it, you might consider adding your knowledge to our small article on Lee Miller. --Bmk 21:28, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Mythological creatures with multiplying extremities/progeny/whatever

Here's the thing: I'm trying to name a fictional SPECTRE-ish organization, themed around the idea that no matter how many operatives you kill, they have so many "sleepers" that-- well, if you cut off one head, two will grow in its place. Which we all know is the Hydra. But Marvel Comics already has a SPECTRE-ish organization called Hydra.

So I'd like to find another mythological creature -- or anything with that '60s "SPY!" sound to it -- with the "smack it and it multiplies" gimmick. The whole thing is a send-up, so I don't mind an overt Hydra/this-group similarity... in some ways, that would be an asset. But for obvious reasons, Hydra is out. Can anyone pitch in here and bail me out? --MattShepherd 19:17, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If it is comical why not try the Amoebas or Earthworms? Maybe Starfish. Nowimnthing 20:15, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Good ideas, but this is more a "sly wink" than an outright spoof. It has to be James-Bond-believable, if you know what I mean. --MattShepherd 20:33, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Wasn't Cerberus supposed to be like that? Three dog heads and hundreds of snake heads? Grutness...wha? 01:54, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Not quite it perhaps but warriors springing up out of nowhere=dragon's teeth from Jason and the Argonauts?hotclaws**==(81.134.68.10 06:53, 29 July 2006 (UTC))[reply]

2 questions about broad (UN) coalitions : USA involvement and tensions

Hello people,

I came up with this question when I watched the news about UNIFIL in Lebanon and MONUC in Congo.

1) The UN often sends peacekeepers into areas like Bosnia, Lebanon and African countries like Congo. I was wondering if the USA has participated in any of these peacekeeping missions since "Black Hawk Down" in Mogadishu, when their attempt to oust Aidid failed.

2)In a coalition like this, can't you have tensions between troops from different countries? For instance : MONUC consists of Pakistani, Indian and Bangladeshi troops. Also, both Armenia and Azerbadjian have had some troops in Iraq (I know : that was not a UN coalition). Isn't that a bit weird? Do those soldiers really drop their own background and act as nationless peacekeepers?

Thanks, Evilbu 19:35, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

At least for part one see Timeline of UN peacekeeping missions, seems the US is involved in United Nations Stabilization Mission in Haiti that started in 2004. Nowimnthing 20:20, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding the second question, This PDF UN map shows that the MONUC deployments in Adikivu and Ituri eavh have a Pakistani infantry batallion and an Indian air-force squadron. That does seem strange. -- Mwalcoff 23:32, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Never thought of this and it seems strange. However, if it works, then the soldiers would get to know each other and mutual understanding (seeing the others are normal humans too) could be a great incentive for peace back home. DirkvdM 06:36, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Who is Pappy Mason?

I know that Pappy Mason had something to do with the Mafia in NY back in the day, but does anyone else have any other information about him?

Doesn't seem to be too much out there, if you google you get a few mentions of him like this: [15] maybe you should start an article. Nowimnthing 20:25, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Try searching for "Howard Mason" aka Pappy, though that may not be the particular vile, low-life drug kingpin you are looking for.EricR 23:47, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Location of Seas

How far is the Medeterrianin from Jerusalem, and how far is the dead sea from Jerusalem?

Well the Mediterranean curves so it depends which way you are going...directly west is about 60 kilometres from Jerusalem. The Dead Sea is about half as far, maybe 25 kilometres? Adam Bishop 22:17, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

While it doesn't have many roads mapped, you can to go maps.google.com and type in Jerusalem. Zoom out to the level you like and you can see exactly where Jerusalem is. --Kainaw ^(talk) 22:29, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Using the Gmaps Pedometer, I can see it's about 56km from J'lem to the Mediterranean due west or about 51km as the crow flies to around Bat Yam. It's about 23km from J'lem to the Dead Sea near Qumran. -- Mwalcoff 23:25, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

July 29

History of science question

Hi - I was hoping someone could help me find some mention in historical texts of animals using camouflage - called crypsis. I posed this question on the Science Desk, and got some good answers, but they were referring to the 19th century, whereas I'm looking for something earlier than the 17th century - maybe in a bestiary, or in the notes of a natural philosopher? I know this is an obscure question, but if anyone could help, I'd be most appreciative. Thanks Adambrowne666 00:57, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Protective resemblance of a species to its background must have been known to hunters from the beginning. The change of coat of some northern animals to white in winter was known to Theophrastus ( fourth century B.C.) and has been familiar through the ages. From Pliny ( first century A.D.) and Aelian (c. A.D. 200) onward the power of the chameleon to alter its colour according to its surroundings has been frequently remarked. In the seventeenth century Redi (p. 440) drew attention to the peculiarities of the 'stick insects' and like forms. Chameleon and green tree-frog attracted Vallisnieri (p. 208) in the eighteenth century.

Singer, Charles (1959). A History of Biology to about the Year 1900: A General Introduction to the Study of Living Things. London: Abelard-Schuman. pp. p. 317. {{cite book}}: |pages= has extra text (help)

mentions some places to look anyway. Redi is found in Esperienze intorno alla generazione degli inettis ( Observations on the generation of insects), Florence, 1668 and looks to be available online. Someone needs to write an article for Antonio Vallisnieri, the work referred to is by Claude Perrault and published by the French Académie des Sciences, 1715.EricR 01:46, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Claude Perrault seems to have died prior to 1715, so i have no idea where Vallisnieri can be found.EricR 01:50, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent, thanks all. Adambrowne666 23:52, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Successful Jews

I know this sounds really stereotypical, but why are the Jews such a successful people? It may not be true in every case, but I every Jew I have ever met/listened to/heard about were always either doctors, psychologists, comedians, or prophets (among other other successful jobs)! What makes them to be so? Is it a genetic thing that makes them all have a drive to achieve something? Just wondering. Thanks. schyler 01:02, 29 July 2006 (UTC)####You know what they say "THREE FIRES AND THEN SUCESS"[reply]

I don't think it's a genetic thing, I think it's more of a cultural component combined with opportunity. For example, Christians though usury was immoral, but Jews didn't, and so they got to profit from it. I'd say look at model minority but there's not much info on Jewish people there. --ColourBurst 01:38, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict)

There's a recent paper by Gregory Cochran arguing for a genetic component to the higher average IQ scores of Ashkenazi Jews, but that theory is not generally accepted in the scientific community. The more obvious explanation is that the Jewish culture places a high priority on education, so on average Jews will be overrepresented in the fields of medicine, law, science, and other areas requiring many years of postsecondary studies. For more discussion of this, see Talk:Ashkenazi Jews and also the article Ashkenazi intelligence. --Mathew5000 03:06, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's not like bricklayers don't achieve anything. They just don't make as much money. One thing I can think of is that Jews have been prosecuted so much that they had to have something to compensate. Money is a nice one, so they may have traditionally focused on professions that make more money. And medical professions are then a good option. Something similar can be noticed here in the Netherlands, where there are ever more immigrants in the medical professions (loads of muslims at chemists' for one). However, Jews are also overrepresented in the sciences, I believe (or is this a myth?). Could this also have a cultural cause or is it higher IQ's? DirkvdM 06:45, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

One historical reason is that Jews were barred from owning land in many places. This may sound like a negative, but ultimately forced many into businesses which ultimately had higher profit potential. If you own a patch of land, the profit you can make from it (in the form of crops) is strictly limited, whereas if you loan money, own a store, etc., the profit potential is almost unlimited. StuRat 07:37, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Oh yes, and money lending was considered unchristian (something in the bible forbids it, but modern day chrstians don't read the bible anymore), so that was left to the Jews. Which was of course profitable. So people got pissed off and, well, the rest is history. DirkvdM 19:02, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

i think the persecution argument is the strongest. here in the Uk for example, the average gay man (accoring to the home office) earns around 34000 pounds a year which is significantly higher than the uk average (somewhere around the mid-twenties) - all this despite the fact that gay man are something like ten times less likely to finsih school than there heterosexual peers - so proving yourself to the wider world must be quite a factor. although two thumbs way up for the guy who pointed out that success shouldnt be measured by money. 201.9.82.172 23:13, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding gay men, there's no way that both those statistics (a tenth as likely to finish school, and significantly higher average income) are correct. Regarding Jews, I don't understand the responses of StuRat and DirkvdM. The original question was, why are there so many Jews who are successful doctors, psychologists, comedians and prophets. It is not much of an answer to say that a long time ago they weren't allowed to own land and Christians weren't allowed to lend money for interest, since today those conditions do not apply. --Mathew5000 03:12, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I would seriously doubt any genetic component to it. Genetics can explain skin or eye color, but concepts like ambition are far to complex to attribute to someone's chromosomes. It is largely cultural. I like to joke that whoever wrote Lynyrd Skynyrd's "Simple Man" certainly wasn't Jewish. Joking aside, it's hard to make any sweeping generalizations, since I've known Jewish people who have been content to live modest, working-class lives or have been screw-ups in their attempts to be "successful." But in most Jewish families I have known, the expectation level is higher than what you'd see, say, in a typical family of West Virginia steelworkers. Again, I don't want to stereotype; I've met my share of people who have come from working-class backgrounds and become CEOs or the like. But if your dad works in a coal mine, his expectation for you is probably different that it would be if he was a lawyer. A third-generation coal miner might be more accepting of a son who goes straight from high school to a job in the mines or in a factory, while the lawyer would be more likely to insist that the son continue his education. So the easy answer to your question is Jewish people are more likely than the general population to be doctors, lawyers, etc., because they are more likely have had parents who had a middle-class background.

The more difficult question is how so many Jewish families in the West got to that point in the first place. For this, we do have to look at history, even if conditions have changed. The restrictions of Christian Europe had forced Jews to become basically an urban merchant class in many areas. This prepared them well for life in the U.S. If you were to look at a mid-size American town in the 50s, half of the store owners might have been Jewish. With the decline of small retail, there might not be as many Jewish store owners as there used to be, but many of those merchants' kids went on to become doctors, lawyers, professors and so on.

Another thing to consider is the value Jews traditionally have placed in education and learning. Due to religious considerations, Jews have always been a highly literate people. I've been told even today, Jews read far more books per capita than do non-Jews in the U.S. I was surprised to see that one of the top-selling books in a Prague bookstore was the Czech translation of Leo Rosten's The New Joys of Yiddish. Prague doesn't have a huge Jewish community, but either the ones there read a lot or Czech Gentiles are really interested in Yiddish for some reason. -- Mwalcoff 04:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There's a difference between noticing a link between two things and being able to explain it. So if we don't understand the genetics behind ambition that doesn't mean we can't find a link between the two. But I agree that the cultural tradition is very important and that was indeed my point hereabove. This also in answer to Mathew's remark.

How does judaism inspire literacy? DirkvdM 07:55, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

All Jewish men are expected to be able to read the Torah and are encouraged to study other Jewish texts. This presumably meant literacy was far higher in the Jewish population than it was for centuries in the Christian population. The medieval Church was far less enthusiastic about literacy among lay people. -- Mwalcoff 12:36, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Union of England and Scotland.

I have a buckle which has a Crown over a Thistle and a Rose above intertwined Hearts and has the inscription around "Jubilee 50th Year, People United and King Supported" The buckle is made of gilt metal and is 6.5 x 4.5 cm. Can anybody help me to find out if this is from an Association or a Political Party? Mt thanks in advance.

The last British king to reign for 50 years was George III of the United Kingdom, but he was on the verge of being declared insane at the time. More recently, kings ruled from 1901-1953. Does it look like it's early 19th century or 20th century? AnonMoos 09:43, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Local government in Britain

Greetings Ref desk! I am writing about local government in Britain at the Swedish Wikipedia, and I have a few questions which the relevant articles here have not been able to answer.

Which Lord Lieutenant did York belong to before 1974? Riding says that "Each of the ridings of Yorkshire has [sic!] its own Lord Lieutenant", probably referring the 1911 Encyclopædia Britannica. However, as York did not belong to any riding, it isn't clear which Lord Lieutenant handled the matters of that city.
Did the County Borough of Teesside belong to the Lord Lieutenant of County Durham, the North Riding or both, as the borough of Stockton-on-Tees does today? The article on Teesside doesn't say.
When were the Isles of Scilly detached from the County Council of Cornwall?

Thanks in advance! /sv:Essin 10:59, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Venturing further into this topic, I have two more questions.

Districts of Northern Ireland mentions a district restructuring, but not much is written on Wikipedia about it. What are for example the consequences of The Local Government (Boundaries) (Northern Ireland) Order 2006, and when are the new district councils going to start working?
County Armagh says that "most of Craigavon Borough Council" covers a part of Armagh, but Craigavon Borough Council doesn't mention which other county is covered by the council. So which is it, and how large is the area outside Armagh in Craigavon Borough? /sv:Essin 22:44, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Okay... Craigavon, by the map on its page, crosses into Down and maybe even touches Antrim (around the shore of Lough Neagh). With York, according to an old source I have it officially straddled the borders of the three Ridings. whether than means that the three different Lords Lieutenant each had jurist=diction over part of the city, I don't know. The same source also mentioned that it had a Sherriff, though, so perhaps he performed the duties of a Lord Lieutenant for the city. BTW, "has" is right, since "each" implies "each individual one". Grutness...wha? 01:35, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

According to Lists of Lord Lieutenancies, York had its own Lord Lieutenant until 1974, although after 1882 the position was held jointly with the Lord Lieutenancy of the West Riding. --AJR | Talk 02:26, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the info about Craigavon! The Lord Lieutenancies of the counties corporate seems to be an interesting topic. Am I right in interpreting the list as the counties corporate were de jure separate lieutenancy areas until 1974, but de facto only until 1882, not counting the exceptions of the City of London and Haverfordwest? (The "sic" marked the tense of "has", not the number. It seemed anachronistic to refer to something that ceased to exist in 1974 with the present tense. But I do not have an en-N Babel box, so what do I know... :p ) /sv:Essin 11:37, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

And now I see West Riding of Yorkshire talks about the lieutenancy of "West Riding of the County of York, and the City and County of the City of York". I'm beginning to understand why the English use abbreviations such as Notts and Berks... /sv:Essin 11:52, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

is hen a halaal.

i read quran and other islamic books and found enough evidence of hen and cock to be haraam. Since it has talons and it does eat small organisms. but just that i wanted to confirm from some more knowledgeable persons.

and also, is it wrong to post such messages on talk pages of halaal and similar topics. if so, why. i dont think there is any harm if u enquire about a topic on its talk page. nids 11:51, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Chicken meat is halal if the chicken a) hasn't been fed any meat or meat by-products during its life, b) is raised in a way to minimise suffering and c) is slaughtered according to the principles of Dhabiĥa. Your interpretation is the first I've heard considering chicken in general to be haraam. Natgoo 08:28, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

..And AFAIK it's fine to post questions like this on relevant talk pages as you're more likely to get a response from somebody in the know. In general, however, the focus of the discussion should be how to improve the article. See Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines. --Shantavira 13:24, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Religion

Where is the reference for the question of "who died first, Adam or Eve"?--Billmilton 12:10, 29 July 2006 (UTC)À[reply]

There is no reliable answer to that question. Even if you assume Genesis is historical, the fact is not recorded. alteripse 13:57, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Humanities reference desk is the right place. Adam died at the ripe old age of 930 (Genesis 5:5). According to the Jewish Encyclopedia, Eve died a year later.--Shantavira 13:59, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

(That was weird. Alteripse's reply definitely wasn't in my edit box - I just went back to check - and yet I didn't get an edit conflict message!)--Shantavira 14:02, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That's happened to me a few times. No idea why... maybe they have made a recent change to the mediawiki code to try to reduce edit conflicts or something. Or perhaps both of you clicked the edit link at nearly the same time and the first person to click the link was also the first person to save the page, so it let both edits through... digfarenough (talk) 19:03, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Assuming they existed in the first place. :) DirkvdM 19:04, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

So where did the Jewish Encyclopedia get its info? alteripse 22:56, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Women live longer than men-hotclaws**==(81.134.68.10 08:21, 30 July 2006 (UTC))[reply]

How to stop dreaming?

Hello all,

After reading the pages regarding dreaming, I didn't really find a statisfying answer to a problem I'm facing: dreaming. I've always been dreaming from since I was young, but lately my dreams have become way more frequent and intense. I do know the cause of my dreams however: there's a lot of things going on in my life right now, I whole lot of (negative) changes in a very short timespan. I try to do my best to deal with the changes as good as I can, and during my day-life I have no real problems. I'm not feeling depressed and I am blessed with a lot of good things in life like friends, education and a job. It's just that at night I face the things I had to deal with over the last 12 months and it's really exhausting me. My dreams are also very real: most of the things happening in my dreams can happen in real life.

What happens from time to time is that during the day I mix up things I dreamt about with things that happened in real life. Then I can't remember whether something happened in real life or in my dreams. It's not that I'm hallucinating or anything, I am still able to think clear. It's just that I have this feeling of being awake 24 hours aday, during the daylight and during the night, like I don't have a night to rest. When I wake up in the morning I'm still tired, even if I just slept for 8 or 10 hours.

I'm trying to face my problems as good as I possibly can. I've had much worse times than this, I talked to a physicologist who helped me very well. There were times when I felt depressed and lost. But those days are over, during the daytime I'm a much happier person. I just want those dreams to stop. I hope there's somebody who had a similar experience and who has found a way to limit these dreams in some way.

Thank you very much for your time.

If immediatly on waking you write your dreams down,you remember them better and remember that they are dreams.I get confused between the two very often but my dreams are like cool movies and not upsetting-hotclaws**==(81.134.68.10 08:25, 30 July 2006 (UTC))[reply]

- A Pictor Too.

You can't stop dreaming (it would be very bad for your psyche as dreams are a necessary part of brain function), but you can gain control of your dreams. I suggest you get in touch with a therapist who can teach you lucid dreaming and relaxation/mental discipline techniques to diminish the intensity of your night experiences and draw a more distinct boundary between dreams and real life. A friend of mine who had devastating night terrors was helped by such a person.--Anchoress 13:58, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Your dreams are affected by your life, it is likely that whatever is causing you a lot of stress or bother, or concern in real life, is the cause, and possibly even the subject of your creams. So basically its the result of those things you are going through, not an independent problem. Philc _T^E_C^I 19:01, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hi sweety... :( I felt really bad 4 u when i read your question since that used to happen to me... ok, the first thing you need to know is that you can't stop having bad dreams because maybe you are pushing things you don't like in your waking life into the dark (avoiding them), (stuff like considering the bad things that could happen..you probably don't wanna see the bad side of things during your waking life)and those come out in your dreams so that you can be aware of them... you said there was a time when you where depressed and lost and now you are ok... well.. that's really good, did you find a purpose or someting?, the thing that worries me is that maybe you have found a purpose and all, but maybe it's not what you really want, and maybe that's the reason for your haunting dreams... anyway, I'd love to help you as much as I can. you can ask me stuff in my user page if you like. be happy and good luck. --Cosmic girl 03:02, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Smoking marijuana is said to either reduce dreaming or the memory of them. I smoke the stuff to get to sleep because I can't stop thinking, which may also be what you have because if you really dream you're asleep, and you shouldn't be tired if you've slept (not quite sure about this). Or do the dreams wake you up? Anyway, if you find a non-drug solution that is always preferable. I haven't, alas. DirkvdM 08:06, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

poetry

can u tell me about poetry related to the three realms of the earth ie land ,water, air,,and aslo about any rituals or festivals or legends regarding this i'd preffer it to be regarding india .

could you eplain this statement 2 me "thediversity of environment that exists in the world,which supports life"

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Language"cuz the language desk eems to be inhabited by no-one and because it is rather urgent please dont tell me not to double post it is an emergency

You would stand more chance of a reply if you posted a more coherent and specific question. Surely a huge amount of poetry is about the land, water, and air. And India is extremely rich is rituals, festivals, and legends. Have you read the articles on India, Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism, poetry, rituals, festivals, and legends? As for that "statement", it is not really a statement as it does not form a complete sentence; it appears to be a noun phrase, though rather an ambiguous one as it is not clear what it is claiming supports life: the diversity, the environment, or the world. Can you be more specific?--Shantavira 14:13, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

i have tried most of them out and i cant find what im looking 4 that is the main reason i asked it over here so can u help me about the statement ,well, i had posted it before and i got an equally weird 'n unrelated answer is the wikipedia reference desk dead ,i mean devoid of all living souls excpt for me . please help me out with this.

So what exactly are you looking for? You need to help us to help you. To take poetry as a starting point, are you looking for a specific poem or poets that you have forgotten? Or are you looking for any old poem or poets that deal with all (or any?) of those subjects? Can you give examples of what you are looking for? We have an article on Indian poetry which has lots of links. What is it that is lacking in the sources to which we are referring you?--Shantavira 17:39, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

okay here is the question as it is on my worksheet

choose any of thhe realms of the earth (land ,air ,water ) and collect and analyze information to find out about-

1 the diversity of environment that exists in the world ,which supports life

2 collect stories , legends , festivals , poetry , sayings, rituals that are associated with the realms chosen

the topics that i have sound mindboggling 2 me and im asking these questions after a lot of searching and googling but the results i get r usually rather irrelevant,or else i wouldnt be asking 4 help and please i was not spamming i was just trying 2 get a better reply from u , cuz i thought that u had ignored my query please isnt there anyone here

OK, well that is a lot clearer. But you will appreciate that what you have presented above is an instruction and not a question, and while it is usually fairly straightforward to respond to a question we are not here to write essays for people's studies. (There are websites specially dedicated to that, and they charge a lot of money.) At least you only have to choose one realm. To take water as an example. (I would rephrase (1) as "the world's life-supporting environments".) Think about the different watery environments that support life and read up on their ecosystems. This might include oceans, reefs, rivers, bogs, marshland, ponds. Emphasize the huge diversity of life that exists in water, and the particular merits of each in supporting life, both plant and animal. You'll probably be swamped by information (I think that is your root problem), so don't go into too much detail on any one system.

For the second part, search for water festival, beer festival, and so on for examples. Look up "water" in the index to quotation dictionaries and poetry books (and list of poems). Take a look at Neptune and other river gods. I hope that gives you an idea where to start.--Shantavira 08:59, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Early american photographers

You Rrecently featured an American photographer who made prints using selenium toner and photographed native americans but i can't find the Article. Please Help!! (email address removed)

I can't find any - only one article on photographic process links to the selenium toning article. Try Wikipedia:Featured articles. - THE GREAT GAVINI {T-C} 16:04, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

American photographers famous for their portraits of Native Americans include Laura Gilpin, Frank Rinehart and Edward S. Curtis. I've no information on the toner they used. --Lambiam ^Talk 16:34, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It was Frank Rinehart, mentioned on a previous Featured recent article page.--Anchoress 02:58, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Christian Music

Can anyone tell me what genre of Christian music this is? The only examples I can really think of are the music for the main menu of Hitman 2 Silent Assassin and when you discover Christianity in Civilization IV.------Seclipse21 16:10, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

To what does "this" refer? alteripse 22:52, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"This" refers to the examples I said.-----Seclipse21 02:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Dude, maybe you thought you'd put in a hyperlink to examples? Or a link to an .ogg file? Cuz you didn't. It's just a bolded word lol.--Anchoress 03:32, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Why would you think the soundtrack for Hitman silent assassin would be considered christian music? I bolded your "this" because your question was literally unintelligible. It still makes no sense to me. Who says those two pieces are Christian? alteripse 05:12, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

They are asking what sort of music it is that you hear when you discovery Christianity in Civilization IV (a computer game). They mention that it is the same kind of music as they hear on the main menu of Hitman 2 Silent Assassin (another computer game). I assume Alteripse, like me, you've never played these games as the question seemed to confuse you. I've unbolded 'this as it seemed more confusing. Anyone know the answer? Skittle 11:53, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have both pieces of music (although not both games). Unfortunately, I know nothing about music, so probably can't be of much help. However, you can listen to a sample of the piece from Hitman here. (Click the little red box beside the first track). Personally, I wouldn't say it was "Christian", but it does have a choral component of the sort that might be found in some traditional "church music". (But it also has a brass component, too, which I don't think you got in churches.) I can't find any online sample of the music from Civilization IV — it's only a short clip anyway. It sounds like some sort of monastic chant, to me — maybe it's a Gregorian chant, but like I say, I don't know music. If I'm listening to the same sound as you, it sounds to me like one person singing, echo-ey, with no (or very subtle) music. -- Vardion 12:43, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have an example of it saved on my computer, but I don't know how to upload it right here to give everyone an example of what I'm talking about. --Seclipse21 18:13, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

origins of anti slavery movement

There was a documentary some time back about the man in England who won an essay contes with his descriptions of slavery and how this launched the first anti slavery movement in the world. Where would I find the name of the documentary or other writing on that?

I believe the person you're thinking about is Thomas Clarkson. I'm afraid I can't identify the documentary, but maybe that article and its links will provide you with some information on him, and a better chance of tracking down the documentary. -- Vardion 17:05, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Evangical Churches of Prussia (Bremen,Colleda,Bachra,Sachsen, Thuringen, and KleinNeuhausen Thuringen

Hi

I am new to searching family roots in Germany. I am trying to search for families that were Evangical and lived in Bremen, and Colleda, and Bachra, Sachsen, Thuringen, and Klein Neuhausen Thuringen (Prussia) Germany.

I would appreciate any addresses for churchs in these towns so that I can find parents, children, and spouses in these families.

Thank you

Karen Cox email removed (Salt Lake City, Utah)

Alice Eliza Ball bio

Ball [1867-1948], according to the Library of Congress, authored three books: A YEAR WITH THE BIRDS, Gibbs & Van Vleck,1916 BIRD BIOGRAPHIES, Dodd, Mead, 1923 SKETCHES OF THE BALL AND FOLLET FAMILIES, Stephen Daye press, 1939

We are mounting an exhibit of Castine, Maine, writers, but can find no biographical information on Ball. Requesting any information on her life. Paul Gray

Internet usage

Hi guys, are there any statistics about internet usage in the world? ( how many people use it regularly, how many have used it and how many don't even know it exists.)--Cosmic girl 21:28, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The World Factbook may have what you need. For instance, it can be seen under the Communications section that Nauru had 300 Internet users in 2002[16].--Patchouli 21:55, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

thank you, but is there any site with the aproximate percentages?.--Cosmic girl 23:08, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know. Perhaps, someone else could help.--Patchouli 00:46, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

no worries! thanx a lot 4 the other link anyway! XD --Cosmic girl 03:04, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Internet article has the following external link: http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats.htm. Doesn't quite answer all your questions and you probably already saw that, but there you go. Interresting to see that the Seychelles have the biggest internet penetration in Africa (didn't know it was Africa, by the way). The're sinking, so they'll be very interrested in world affairs, I suppose. Sort of a modern day Atlantis. I also wonder how many people have never heard of the Internet. In Africa that may actually be a considerable amount, though no more than 20% or so, I guess. DirkvdM 08:17, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Adjusting guitar intonation

I'm new to this whole guitar thing, and recently bought an electric guitar. I find that even when relatively tuned, the two E strings don't sound the same unfretted (yes I know the high E string is two octaves higher). I thought this might have something to do with intonation. The book I have provides suggestions on how to adjust the screws at the back of the bridge if the string's harmonic doesn't match the 12th fret, but I can't seem to get this right. Any ideas? --Silvaran 23:04, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, you know what? I think I might have the intonation figured out, but I need a better tuner (the needle on this one jumps all over the place, argh) :) --Silvaran 23:27, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The needle? I take it you use one of those electronic thingies. If you want to become a musician (if only as a hobby) you need to develop your musical hearing. Buy a tuning fork in stead (cheap enough) and learn different methods to tune by hearing. DirkvdM 08:37, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What I usually do when just playing alone is use a tuner on the low E string (or just leave it as it is if it's close) then tune by using the harmonics on the fifth and seventh frets. (See, e.g., this site). I find it's a bit easier than using fifth/fourth frets against the next open string because you don't need to continue fretting the notes while you're tuning. Another useful tip is to pay attention to the vibration of the guitar itself when you're getting two strings close to in tune, sometimes the beat frequency in the notes is less clear than the beat frequency slowly vibrating the guitar's body. Just some tips for ya... digfarenough (talk) 15:01, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Chaturanga pieces

What did the playing pieces in Chaturanga typically look like? Have any playing pieces survived from ancient and medieval sets? Is the game still played, and if so, with what pieces? --Siva 23:30, 29 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

July 30

Is this song about masturbation (Generation X - Dancing With Myself)?

I was listening to this song with my friend tonight and we got into an argument about whether it was about wanking or not. He was like "they'd never get away with recording that and getting it broadcast". Help me to settle this, what do you think? Looks obvious to me. I've heard it on the radio loads of times too, did noone notice or what?

Lyrics:

On the floors of Tokyo

Down in London town's a go-go

With the record selection

And the mirror's reflection

I'm a-dancing with myself

Rest of lyrics removed per fair use; look for them on the net

As with many songs, you can read into it what you like, but it does seem like it was the writer's intention to leave the lyrics with a deliberate double meaning. This certainly isn't as clear-cut as The Who's "Pictures of Lily" or Billy Bragg's "St Swithin's Day", but I'd say it is very easy to read this as being about wanking. Grutness...wha? 01:19, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The song must be about masturbation, because it is mentioned in the Wikipedia article List of songs about masturbation. --Mathew5000 02:59, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The song is originally by Billy Idol, and googling '"Billy idol" "dancing with myself" masturbation' turns up over 1000 hits, notably this one, Odes to Onanism: Best Masturbation Songs.--Anchoress 03:04, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

GenX was Billy Idol's band. I think he re-recorded the song when he went solo (dunno, I liked GenX but Billy sold out, man!). They also wrote a song called 'Kleenex', which could kinda be interpreted as being about flogging the dolphin (why does that article not exist??? ;) ) too. DwM is much more blatant (and poppy sounding) - and was probably a deliberate attempt by a bunch of punk rockers to get a song about jerking off played on the radio. Subversive, huh? --Kurt Shaped Box 11:48, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Logic question

What is the term for the concept in logic for a statment that has an opposite so therefore is irrelevant (I know I'm not defining it correctly)?

For example: Time waits for no one and Good things come to those who wait

Thanks in advance! --Teh Janitor 04:12, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't have an answer for you, but I don't think those two examples are opposites.--Anchoress 05:40, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I realize that, but I remember those being the examples cited in my Intro to Logic book(I had hoped that either the shoddy def. or the examples would jog someone's memory). Thanks for the input though. --Teh Janitor 05:44, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Time waits for no one.

Its converse is "No one waits for time." Some people do. Here the converse is always false.

Good things come to those who wait.

"To those who wait, good things come" is the converse. You could wait eternally, and good things may never come. Here, the converse could be true or false.

I don't have time to break the statements into "If...,then" statements.--Patchouli 07:19, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Are you looking for the word tautology? --Mathew5000 07:25, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Might it be affirming the consequent? It's an argument that takes the form (best of my memory): If A then B, therefore if B then A. So, If all humans are mammals (true), therefore all mammals are humans (false).--Fuhghettaboutit 07:43, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure why I didn't check: Affirming the consequent.--Fuhghettaboutit 07:45, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It sounds like they're saying that if you have something that says the opposite of your first statement, the first one is irrelevant. As in "Many hands make light work" and "Too many cooks spoil the broth". But that doesn't sound like logic to me. Skittle 11:48, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Nephirim (title added)

Who or what is nephirim?--Nunnuya 06:07, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Did you mean Nephilim? In that case, it is (in the Torah) the offsping of Sons of God and daughter's of men. Hope that helps : )

--Teh Janitor 06:44, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The ancient history of billiards

I'd like to know how a billiard table might have been described by someone around in the time when they were first invented. Through google, I've found that the term derives from the old french for 'ball' and 'art', also that the green baize is derived from when the game of bowls was first brought indoors from the grass pitch; but what would someone have called a billiard table a year or so after they were first devised? This may be a weird question, but it's research for a piece I'm writing. Thanks in advance Adambrowne666 08:11, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Don't trust Google that easily! According to the French Academy, the word billard originally (in the 14^th century) referred to the stick used to propel the billes, or balls. I don't know what the game was called shortly after it was invented, but the term billard seems to have acquired the modern sense only in the 16^th century. If the game was invented around the 16^th century, then it would be safe to assume that that's what it was called. --Siva 16:15, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Which country does not have any movie theatres?

This was a question asked a while ago (Wikipedia:Reference desk archive/Humanities/July 2006#Which country does not have any movie theaters.). I just came across an answer at The Rake magazine: Saudi Arabia. [17] However, I still think that Vatican City is also unlikely to have any real movie theatres. --Mathew5000 09:34, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Pope has a private theatre. I'm sure there are no multiplexes there, if that's what you mean by "real". Adam Bishop 15:06, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Is a seagull a 'vulture'?

Moved to Science

I mean it acts like a vulture (circles, eats caracsses and carrion). If the vulture had been discovered before the seagull, do you think that explorers would've named the various breeds of seagull 'sea vultures' or something? New world vultures are not real vultures either but they're called that because they act like vultures and the name stuck over the years. What do you think?

Eh - seagulls do a fair amount of hunting and foraging - they kill and eat crabs and shellfish (see seagull). I don't think they eat enough carrion to qualify them as a vulture-type bird. Whoa - I'm surprised there are any gull species links that don't exist given the number of gull fanatics on the desks! --Bmk 12:53, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Vulture is a whole seperate group. I think I'll move this to Science. We sure get a lot of seagull questions for a science desk! I wonder why? Any ideas?

Funny, I always wondered why there are occasional non-Seagull questions on the Seagull Science reference desk.

History question on civilisations....NEed HeLP>>>>

in what ways did the chinese civilisation lay the foundation for the modern world and what led to its decline?? --203.124.2.21 13:07, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ancient and early medieval Chinese are commonly said to have invented gunpowder, printing, paper, and the magnetic compass among other things. I don't know that China really "declined" absolutely, but in relative terms, it conspicuously failed to keep up with advances elsewhere in the world during the 17th-19th centuries. For a multi-volume discussion of the history of Chinese science and technology, see the works of Joseph Needham. AnonMoos 14:55, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Kingfisher Tower

I can find no listing for the Kingfisher Tower in Cooperstown, NY It is a unique landmark, and apparently somewhat well known You should add a listing

It is Wikipedia, why don't you type a litle blurb and put it on? Anybody can contribute! Just click on Kingfisher Tower and type away!

Who was this performer at Di's funeral?

Please help us before the little old ladies in our shop go mad!They really like a piece of music-I believe it's called Athena or Athina? that was played at Princess Diana's funeral,but we can't remember who wrote it or who performed it at the funeral?

PS I've searched under Athena and Diana Princess of Wales(funeral section) No joy :( Elton John?

I think you're looking for Song for Athene, written by John Tavener. Hope that helps. -- Vardion 16:59, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Horse Cav Combat

How did old timey horse calvarymen learn to fight saber duels with each other and attack people on the ground at the gallop? I do know how to ride a horse and it looks like such things are nigh on impossable to do to some one like like me. Does anybody know anything about such lost skills as these? Thanks a bunch.16:21, 30 July 2006 (UTC)(Hobgoblin)

See polo. Learning to swing a big stick and hit a tiny ball while at a full gallop is not limited to the cavalry. --Kainaw ^(talk) 16:39, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Riding at sacks or melons mounted on posts for sabre practice. Riding at small rings hanging from a branch for lance practice. You can still see these drills at reenactments such as American Civil War reenactments or medieval fairs. Rmhermen 18:09, 30 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Wars Timeline

I am taking a history class, and need a timeline marking the major wars throughout history. (The timeline is to document how the presence of wars affected music throughout history.) My professor said that Wikipedia has a great war timeline, but I can't seem to find it anywhere on the website.

Can you please help?

Thanks, KN

6th Generation iPod

There have been rampant rumors on the Internet that the 6th generation iPod will be released at the Apple WWDC sometimes in early August. These are just rumors, but what is the probability that Apple will release the product at this time? Or are the rumors completely baseless and Apple will definitely not release another iPod in 2006?